Interesting off-site experiences

Do you have interesting off-site experiences to share that could inspire us in some ways, or that are simply funny/entertaining? I'm curious ^^ plus, it could give someone ideas for a setup.

My major experiences of that kind would be:
- A French site where claiming was forbidden (yep, breadcrumbing is the way to go even when you want to say you have a red check on someone)
- MafiaScum and their insanely long phases (14 days/game day being the norm)
- Paradox, where you have to vote each day or get replaced/modkilled. That changes the meaning of VCA quite a bit, because people can't just AFK and never vote while making weak statements about the game.

Played a game on MU that was bastard where the town thought they were mafia and the mafia had a team chat. Felt it was a bad game but the concept was good with a lot of interesting potentials.

I would like to see a game where vote power could be used as a +1 for lynch or a -1 to prevent a lynch. Adds a really cool depth to voting with excellent implications to player manipulation and reads.

I have a setup concept I have half ass been working on for quite a while with the goal of quantifying win conditions for individuals but that’s something that needs a lot of work.

Recently played in a game offsite where rather than using PMs on the forum for feedback + action submissions, a single Discord server with all the players in the game was used. Mafia chat was in the same server as well.

The way to make this work without leaking who mafia is based on name colors/roles in the server is that each player is given their player slot as their role. So the person in slot 1 is given Role 01, slot 2 is given role 02, etc. Then if slots 2 5 and 12 are mafia, you just give roles 02, 05, and 12 permissions to view the mafia channel. It doesn't leak who is mafia because all other players can see is that someone has role 02, but they have no way of knowing if role 02 has access to the mafia channel.

Overall being able to put all channels of mod to player communication + feedback + mafia chats + role assignments in one place on one discord server was very convenient and it's definitely they way I plan on running any future games

I've been thinking about why is it that some sites exist that don't take D1 serious at all. I think they themselves make it not worth while, because a productive game day requires 2 things:
1) some level of seriousness
2) some level of activity.
If people allow Mafia just goof around, then really nothing is meaningful anymore.
If this is true, then the sad truth is that policy lynches are a necessary evil?

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MM, btw, about that French site that you mentioned.
It reminds me a little bit of this quote:
(the response to someone asking for mechanical solving tips)

Quote:

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It’s an aspect of Mafia that we don’t always practice around here, given our penchant for claimless games. Even when claims are legal there is still some hesitance to *do it*, and mechanical solves either never come or are significantly delayed. We also don’t tend to run HEAVILY mechanical games. The influence of sites like HeroClix Realms, Naruto Forums, and Mafia 451 on our own games can be beneficial in that way.

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(source)
It seems like multiple sites have distain towards claiming and/or mechanical solving. At least in respect to Syndicate, @MartinGG99 can probably confirm or deny if it's still true today.

Very much the opposite of FoL/ToL. Here's a quote from a neighbor's chat with regards to someone coming from there:

Quote:

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they come from a site where people typically ignore red checks, for good reason-A while back in that sites history, people used to fake red checks a lot

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This I feel like @CRichardForumLies and @Noz_Bugz can confirm if it's still like that today on their site.
(btw, why are there so many FoL players on colosseum? :laugh:)


I thought that not allowing claims is common for IRL and Werewolf communities. You mentioning a French site I guess means it's not that common? It'd be hard for me to believe anyone here has played on more sites than you. :/

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Originally Posted by Lag

Recently played in a game offsite where rather than using PMs on the forum for feedback + action submissions, a single Discord server with all the players in the game was used. Mafia chat was in the same server as well.

The way to make this work without leaking who mafia is based on name colors/roles in the server is that each player is given their player slot as their role. So the person in slot 1 is given Role 01, slot 2 is given role 02, etc. Then if slots 2 5 and 12 are mafia, you just give roles 02, 05, and 12 permissions to view the mafia channel. It doesn't leak who is mafia because all other players can see is that someone has role 02, but they have no way of knowing if role 02 has access to the mafia channel.

Overall being able to put all channels of mod to player communication + feedback + mafia chats + role assignments in one place on one discord server was very convenient and it's definitely they way I plan on running any future games

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Yah, I was banned for a few hours on all Guilio's games, after I told him I can see channel and category names that I shouldn't be able to see, because he does that for all his games and he names each players channel alignment indicative.

I don't mind this method, I think it's good, but just be careful how you name the channels as names can be accessed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OzyWho

I thought that not allowing claims is common for IRL and Werewolf communities. You mentioning a French site I guess means it's not that common? It'd be hard for me to believe anyone here has played on more sites than you. :/

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In every IRL game I've played claiming was 100% allowed and FPS claiming was even encouraged. But then again, I'm usually the one introducing groups to mafia, so that probably skews that sample just a bit

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Originally Posted by Helz

Played a game on MU that was bastard where the town thought they were mafia and the mafia had a team chat. Felt it was a bad game but the concept was good with a lot of interesting potentials.

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I always wanted to meddle into this kind of thing, but it seems way too complicated to design in a way that will be satisfying for everyone in the end. "Felt like it was a bad game" probably is unavoidable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Helz

I would like to see a game where vote power could be used as a +1 for lynch or a -1 to prevent a lynch. Adds a really cool depth to voting with excellent implications to player manipulation and reads.

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Oooooh, that's interesting... could have voting giving or removing items and roles....... ye-e-e-e-e-es........ I have an idea :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OzyWho

I've been thinking about why is it that some sites exist that don't take D1 serious at all. I think they themselves make it not worth while, because a productive game day requires 2 things:
1) some level of seriousness
2) some level of activity.
If people allow Mafia just goof around, then really nothing is meaningful anymore.
If this is true, then the sad truth is that policy lynches are a necessary evil?

---

MM, btw, about that French site that you mentioned.
It reminds me a little bit of this quote:
(the response to someone asking for mechanical solving tips)

(source)
It seems like multiple sites have distain towards claiming and/or mechanical solving. At least in respect to Syndicate, @MartinGG99 can probably confirm or deny if it's still true today.

Very much the opposite of FoL/ToL. Here's a quote from a neighbor's chat with regards to someone coming from there:

This I feel like @CRichardForumLies and @naz can confirm if it's still like that today on their site.
(btw, why are there so many FoL players on colosseum? :laugh:)


I thought that not allowing claims is common for IRL and Werewolf communities. You mentioning a French site I guess means it's not that common? It'd be hard for me to believe anyone here has played on more sites than you. :/

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+++++++++++99999999999999999999999^193193574869784 789589 about the D1 participation mantra. Always. Participate. D1. As. Much. As. Possible.
The sites you're talking about tend to be more casual in general, though. It's a different atmosphere, and one could argue it almost is a different game. People from those places would probably view us as very highly competitive and serious in our games, because they really just enjoy messing with eachother and calling eachother scum with small, relatively weak arguments.

Well, some people on sites with mechanical solving metas are against mechanical solving and prefer vanilla games. There definetly is a site meta aspect to this, but a significant part of the disdain or love for mechanical solving comes from individuals (we have that here too!).

Wait, does naz come from some other FM site? I was not aware... :S

Naaah I'm probably not the player who played on the most sites, but I certainly played on a few, enough to make a few observations ^^. Not allowing claims is rather rare in mainstream FM communities, but I think it's a common rule for those that derive from IRL communities such as the French one I was talking about.

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Originally Posted by Lag

In every IRL game I've played claiming was 100% allowed and FPS claiming was even encouraged. But then again, I'm usually the one introducing groups to mafia, so that probably skews that sample just a bit

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What makes you think there would be any form of bias in your scientific study of IRL mafia groups? :p

I've had the completely opposite experience, but then again it was always with a majority of people who didn't know what they were doing and it didn't work so well. I ended up just... lining up the wolves all the time (because they were obvious) and getting murdered for it XD. Then they would all get lynched.
I know the "official" French werewolf game (Les Loups-Garous de Thiercelieux) forbids claims, though.

I like the voting idea tbh.

-vote Lynch X

-vote Not X

Simple as that? People can choose between voting either pro or con a lynch.
For experiments sake, could even make each day have different vote powers: Day1, pro votes are 1 power and con votes are 2 power; Day2, pro and con votes count evenly; Day3, pro votes are 2 power and con votes are 1 power.

Wait did I actually confuse naz with noz again?
Jeesh

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Originally Posted by OzyWho

I like the voting idea tbh.

-vote Lynch X

-vote Not X

Simple as that? People can choose between voting either pro or con a lynch.
For experiments sake, could even make each day have different vote powers: Day1, pro votes are 1 power and con votes are 2 power; Day2, pro and con votes count evenly; Day3, pro votes are 2 power and con votes are 1 power.

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You like the voting idea eh? You are not alone! :)

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Originally Posted by OzyWho

Wait did I actually confuse naz with noz again?
Jeesh

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ah lol

Played a game where the host put flavour in their posts that give clues who the scum are from character cards and bios that where submitted.

Not really enjoyable.

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Originally Posted by SuperJack

Played a game where the host put flavour in their posts that give clues who the scum are from character cards and bios that where submitted.

Not really enjoyable.

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That's basically "Cryptonic style", but in lazy mode... setups with gameplay-relevant lore in rolecards are very fun when they are well made, and people here have enjoyed them. You probably just had a suboptimal version of it.

So to dive a little deeper..

Turning votes from a vote to lynch into a +1 -1 would add power to the scum. It would increase the value of pocketing as well as increase the value of having a team block so some measures would have to be taken to mitigate that. Maybe limitations on using the -1 on a player multiple days in a row or even creating town blocks with limitations on them mutually confirming etch other.

For the setup concept I was tinkering with there was a few other things I wanted to try. The must significant was radically changing win conditions into a quantified point system. I was looking at establishing 'achievements' that would earn points for the individual so individuals could 'win.' Things like being a doc and successfully blocking a kill, having your faction win, and submitting nightly guesses for PR's and Alignments would maintain the 'team' nature of the game but eliminate that social loafing that plagues some games. It also creates the potential to set achievements that act against the standard interest of an individuals team forcing players to balance stacking up points for themselves while also fighting for their team to win. I really feel like in a lot of ways this would create a more enjoyable gameplay while creating incentive for individuals to try hard and 'stir the pot' so to speak. The potentials are absolutly endless and you could create some absolutely absurd ones like killing the person you are loverized with.

I also wanted to play with evolving roles to protect game balance and make each players role interesting. One flaw I saw for almost all setups is that their balance depends on some grace through RNG. If a bunch of critical lynches and kills happen the first few days it can just wreck game balance in ways that make it difficult to impossible for a team to come back. By having roles evolve night by night or tied to things such as the player count on a team you can offset this effect ensuring that even as the game moves strongly in favor of one side things stay interesting. As opposed to dedicated roles I was thinking of 1 shot abilities and potentially adding hidden role modifiers. Like known to players (but not who) 1 player in the game could be 'insane' reversing the actions they take and the feedback they receive or some such. That and offiscating information into pools like 'Either player A, B, or C is guilty of murder.' Stuff that provides information and drives analysis and interactions without actually allowing for deductively crunching the game.

I personally feel that the heart of the game is creating a healthy balance between information that can be used to solve while preserving enough ambiguity that allows for people to lie about whats going on. D1's drag ass because many do not know how or care to push to break RVS and create content so by ensuring such information is created by the host it translates to players engaging and having a good experience. This could even be done by having a setup start as closed but having pieces reveled as the game went on.

Then theres theems. Imo the most entertaining ones are the ones that allow for some absurd level of entertainment that can carry into some role play. I had an idea for an MK ultra theme of a town of players forced to take acid simply because it would allow hilarious death descriptions and player interactions while the nature of halucinagens could tie in well to hiding information. Maybe everyone saw a pink elephant kill the guy last night by flogging him to death with a pool noodle but who was the pink elephant?
That and someday I have to do the Captain Mousey vs the Crazy Cat Lady Society because I coded it in as the April fools flavor. Like.. that just has to become a thing at some point..

I also very much like the dynamics created by having a lost wolf. It makes scum have to scum hunt and adds a level of complexity to their side that is excellent. The game I played where the town thought they were all lost wolves I only disliked because the town were made to play against their win con while the scum were still informed and playing for their win. That same concept would have worked great if the scum thought they were town or if the town were actually all survivors but it honestly took 'bastard setups' too far imo..

A lot of these concepts would need a lot of balancing but I personally feel they are largely in the direction of creating the most enjoyable games for the players which should always be the goal of a setup. Maybe these ramblings will create some interesting ideas.

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Originally Posted by OzyWho

It seems like multiple sites have distain towards claiming and/or mechanical solving. At least in respect to Syndicate, @MartinGG99 can probably confirm or deny if it's still true today.

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Actually, due to how The Syndicate usually fundamentally operates and the level of freedom given to the hosts, it's really difficult to say if there is or isnt disdain towards mechanical solving. I mean, if you're saying most Syndicate players dislike it then I would disagree. However, if you're saying that there have been a number of games that had rules/mechanics/whatever that discouraged claiming then I would agree.

Usually it depends on the mechanical depth of the game or the player who's hosting that will determine whether there's stuff to prevent or discourage claiming. This is because there's a large degree of host freedom on that site and so hosts can do practically almost anything they want so long as they setup and run the game fairly; even run it by rules that they may find on their homesite (presuming no conflict with Syndicate rules). Generally, however, I do find there's an above-average appearance of mechanics to prevent mass-claiming (Ex: claim-based soup-kill, allowing so-and-so faction to kill multiple players if they guess their role correctly in exchange for a normal night-kill. This being just one example) and its kinda rare to find a complex setup without any sort of anti-claim balancing or mechanic.

If there's a game that doesn't prevent claiming or discourage it then I can't really think of a single player of The Syndicate who I've met who would dislike your claim aside from nuances that make it a good or bad play.

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Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

Do you have interesting off-site experiences to share that could inspire us in some ways, or that are simply funny/entertaining? I'm curious ^^ plus, it could give someone ideas for a setup.

My major experiences of that kind would be:
- A French site where claiming was forbidden (yep, breadcrumbing is the way to go even when you want to say you have a red check on someone)
- MafiaScum and their insanely long phases (14 days/game day being the norm)
- Paradox, where you have to vote each day or get replaced/modkilled. That changes the meaning of VCA quite a bit, because people can't just AFK and never vote while making weak statements about the game.

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I once tried out Forum Mafia in a Reddit format. I had a demotivating moment outside of the game, and said I was going to stay away from it a bit, then came back sooner than that and mentioned I had a strawberry-banana smoothie. Apparently this community in their discord has had serious discussions over the acceptability of bananas as a food:

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okay but counterpoint: bananas are horrible and now i must reconsider our friendship.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/hogwartswer...eb2x&context=3

I even got awarded the title of "Smoothie Seditioner" at the game's end, as the resulting discussion also inspired the flavor of the re-run (occasionally they run a game twice):

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Smoothie Seditioner Award - /u/MartinGG99 - for inciting the Banana Wars

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https://www.reddit.com/r/hogwartswer...ha_validation/


Also, regarding reddit: Trying to do ISO's is finnicky as you can only use their profile's most recent comments to do that. Also, their phases are always 24 hours and ALMOST always a mixture; with the night-kill equivalent and other stuff happening inbetween the start/end of each phase. There isn't really a common "day" or "night" phase.

Oh and one more thing about the reddit community:

They do these "Confessions" that players can use to vent into during the game. Only the hosts get to see it and *most* of the time its published at the end of the game. They were done in a google from that asked "What would you like to say" and for some reason one day I got inspired to make a partial parody of the WIFOM scene based on that question:

Spoiler : :

"What would you like to say?"

Well its so simple. Are you the sort of host to expect players will confess, or to expect they will not? Now, a clever host would expect a player to confess, because they would know that only a great fool would speak freely. I'm not a great fool, so I clearly can not choose to confess. But you would've counted on it, and so clearly I should choose to confess here.

"You've made your decision then?"

Not remotely! Because confession forms are created by interested people, as everyone knows. And interested people are suspicious. And suspicious people are used to not being trusted, as you are not trusted by me. So I can clearly can not choose to confess here.

"Truly you have a dizzying intellect"

Wait till I get going! Where was I?

"Confession Forms."

Yes --- confession forms. You must've known I wouldn't have trusted you, so clearly I can choose to confess here.

"You're just stalling now."

You'd like to think that, wouldn't you! You've hosted an awesome game, which means you're exceptionally appealing. So, you could have expected players to confess, trusting on your popularity to cause people to use this form. So I can clearly not choose to confess here. But, this is also a re-run, which means you have hosted recently. And in hosting recently, you gathered lots of confessions and therefore expected people to distrust you and not confess here, so I can clearly choose to confess here.

"You're trying to trick me into giving away something -- it won't work"

It has worked! You've given everything away! I know what the correct choice is!

"Then make your choice"

I will! And I choose [gasp] what in the world is that fine print!?!?

"Where? I don't see it."

Oh, well, I could've sworn I saw something. No matter. *giggle*

"What's so funny?"

I'll tell you in a minute. But first, I must choose, and you must wait.

"You choose wrong"

You only think I choose wrong, that's what's so funny! I wrote this up and never sent it! Haha, you fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is "never write a post with scum-slip". But only slightly less well-known is this! Never go in against a off-site player when CONFESSION is on the line! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA---oh wait

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

I once tried out Forum Mafia in a Reddit format. I had a demotivating moment outside of the game, and said I was going to stay away from it a bit, then came back sooner than that and mentioned I had a strawberry-banana smoothie. Apparently this community in their discord has had serious discussions over the acceptability of bananas as a food:


https://www.reddit.com/r/hogwartswer...eb2x&context=3

I even got awarded the title of "Smoothie Seditioner" at the game's end, as the resulting discussion also inspired the flavor of the re-run (occasionally they run a game twice):


https://www.reddit.com/r/hogwartswer...ha_validation/


Also, regarding reddit: Trying to do ISO's is finnicky as you can only use their profile's most recent comments to do that. Also, their phases are always 24 hours and ALMOST always a mixture; with the night-kill equivalent and other stuff happening inbetween the start/end of each phase. There isn't really a common "day" or "night" phase.

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Rofl this is surprisingly light-hearted and fun for a Reddit format! Interesting.

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Originally Posted by OzyWho

I've been thinking about why is it that some sites exist that don't take D1 serious at all. I think they themselves make it not worth while, because a productive game day requires 2 things:
1) some level of seriousness
2) some level of activity.
If people allow Mafia just goof around, then really nothing is meaningful anymore.
If this is true, then the sad truth is that policy lynches are a necessary evil?

---

MM, btw, about that French site that you mentioned.
It reminds me a little bit of this quote:
(the response to someone asking for mechanical solving tips)

(source)
It seems like multiple sites have distain towards claiming and/or mechanical solving. At least in respect to Syndicate, @MartinGG99 can probably confirm or deny if it's still true today.

Very much the opposite of FoL/ToL. Here's a quote from a neighbor's chat with regards to someone coming from there:

This I feel like @CRichardForumLies and @Noz_Bugz can confirm if it's still like that today on their site.
(btw, why are there so many FoL players on colosseum? :laugh:)


I thought that not allowing claims is common for IRL and Werewolf communities. You mentioning a French site I guess means it's not that common? It'd be hard for me to believe anyone here has played on more sites than you. :/

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Hello Ozy.
My homesite and MC has a cross over event last year.
That would explain why a lot of Folers are on MC as well.