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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Light_Yagami
Now Who Is Voting On SuperJack Today.. That Didnt Vote On The Two Previous Scums We Have Lynched?
most of town because town didnt want to hammer pointlessly.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Granted Super Jack Never Voted The Two Scum Either.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Correction : most of town didnt vote D2 because they did not want to hammer early D2
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
not early... w.e you get the point
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lag
How are you all talking about the "ethics" of solving the game. This isn't some exploit. This setup is a Blackflag Nightless variant (7 town vs 3 wolves with no factional kill)
And in Blackflag Nightless mafia automatically loses if they're reduced to 1 member. Mafia is supposed to have automatically lost here under the original setup's rules. And all while town hasn't lose a single member!
And It's not like we're working to break the setup from day 1 - in fact it's not even possible to break the setup from day 1 - I provided balance feedback to Auwt in order to help make sure that such setup-breaking-shenanigans from day 1 were impossible - and Auwt did a very good job of making sure that such shenanigans were not possible from day 1.
What we're doing is wrapping up a game that should just be counted as a win for town. We're solving the setup from a day 3 position, where we've killed two wolves already. This is actually pretty much the only situation where you can just mech win the setup because you have enough town alive to churn through while you generate your mech confirmed slots. If it were day 4 and we mischopped a town, we couldn't mech solve the setup - we wouldn't have enough people.
There's no "breaking the spirit of mafia" we had that days 1 and 2, and town won. So now town should just wrap up this game with the easy mech solve, and anyone advocating against it is playing against their wincon in my opinion.
This whole "let's give wolves a sporting chance to win this game still" is mind-boggling to me - they had their chance, and they got chopped days 1 and 2. The game should be over, why is there so much opposition to just ending it?
Why blame the last mafia for the actions of the other two? And if mafia was "supposed" to have automatically lost due to mech, then that's a silly setup.
If the mafia is within SJ, Loldebite, WrathCyber, or myself, then we deserve to lose, and will anyways, because there's no way we live to f4 with how we've played. I'm not arguing on the behalf of any of these players, since if they are scum, they've lost.
If the mafia is within MM, Light, or Martin, then I think it'd be the most awful thing in mafia for genuinely good social deception to be cut short just based solely on mechanics.
I'm not arguing against my win condition, here. I think the last scum is probably within SJ/Loldebite/WrathCyber. So therefore, I think we're already in a winning position, and don't even need the fancy mechanical play. IF, however, the mafia is somehow within Martin/Lighthack/MM? They deserve the chance, however slim, to win. I don't think they SHOULD win, because that would be arguing against my win con, and I certainly would get out of my laziness if it were revealed that were the case. However, I think denying them any possibility is unspirited.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lag
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php...Flag_Nightless
Blackflag Nightless - the alignment composition this setup was based on given the lack of a factional kill.
Notice the "Mafia lose if reduced to 1 member"
We've achieved the "Mafia lose if reduced to 1 member" so we should just take the mech win and call it a day.
Then the setup is silly. Doesn't mean I have to go along with it in a non-competitive game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lag
If anyone is "breaking the spirit of mafia" I'd say the wolf is breaking the spirit here by wasting everyone's times and not just conceding. Yet another reason town should just use the mech win to put them in their place and get them to concede.
Calling for wolves to concede is in bad taste.
If mafia is within MM/Martin/Lighthack, they have a (admittedly very slim) chance at winning when they make it to f4. Even if the possibility is slim, if any of these 3 are mafia, would you deny them with mechanics even that very slim chance of victory? I wouldn't. I think that'd make for a very exciting f4.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gikkle
If mafia is within MM/Martin/Lighthack, they have a (admittedly very slim) chance at winning when they make it to f4. Even if the possibility is slim, if any of these 3 are mafia, would you deny them with mechanics even that very slim chance of victory? I wouldn't. I think that'd make for a very exciting f4.
Considering how little engagement the game is receiving, i don't even think it'd be that exciting, but i see your point.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gikkle
Why blame the last mafia for the actions of the other two? And if mafia was "supposed" to have automatically lost due to mech, then that's a silly setup.
If the mafia is within SJ, Loldebite, WrathCyber, or myself, then we deserve to lose
I'm gonna have fun and say this is a scumslip
-vote Gikkle
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Light_Yagami
Also Super Jack Why Did You Phrase It Your In Stead Of Our Happy Ever After?
Cause MM seems like the only person who is gonna get it
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Loldebite
So you think Lag proposed his mechanical solve knowing people would refuse it "for fun's sake" while also being bored of said game ?
Hey if they think I can have such low scum ability, I can happy assume they play on a scum level beyond belief.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Loldebite
I'm gonna have fun and say this is a scumslip
-vote Gikkle
I listed myself in the group of names and the we obviously refers to that group of names. Not sure if this is serious or not because you say "gonna have fun"
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SuperJack
Hey if they think I can have such low scum ability, I can happy assume they play on a scum level beyond belief.
I don't remember you playing very well as scum the one game I played with you.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Oh btw. It makes sense that even if it's against all odds and the scum is obviously caught to not concede.
Or else you get gameplay like "if X is scum why haven't they surrendered yet?"
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gikkle
I don't remember you playing very well as scum the one game I played with you.
Which one was that? :P I haven't been scum for a long long time.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gikkle
I don't remember you playing very well as scum the one game I played with you.
Though admittedly you acted nothing like you are currently acting, either. I don't really think this matches either of the playstyles I've seen from you. Not quite sure what you're doing.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SuperJack
Which one was that? :P I haven't been scum for a long long time.
You were Soos, were you not?
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SuperJack
Oh btw. It makes sense that even if it's against all odds and the scum is obviously caught to not concede.
Or else you get gameplay like "if X is scum why haven't they surrendered yet?"
And yes I know this heavily suggests I'm scum. Even before I wrote it. I just don't give 2 shits because my wincon isn't depending on me living today.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SuperJack
Cause MM seems like the only person who is gonna get it
What Happy Ever After?
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
I Noticed Something In The Player Order.. Every Scum Thus Far Has Been An Odd Number In The Player Line Up..
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gikkle
You were Soos, were you not?
Oh that game. Lol I forgot. I don't include them games :p I played them mostly just to creat an awesome custom role. :s
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Light_Yagami
What Happy Ever After?
All scum dead no town dead.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Could Just Be A Coincidence
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SuperJack
Hey if they think I can have such low scum ability, I can happy assume they play on a scum level beyond belief.
fair enough lol
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gikkle
Though admittedly you acted nothing like you are currently acting, either. I don't really think this matches either of the playstyles I've seen from you. Not quite sure what you're doing.
Eyyy. That game I picked a personality. "Town but got bored of rolecard which was only useful day 1" ^^
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gikkle
Though admittedly you acted nothing like you are currently acting, either. I don't really think this matches either of the playstyles I've seen from you. Not quite sure what you're doing.
That sounds like my playstyle.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Light_Yagami
I Noticed Something In The Player Order.. Every Scum Thus Far Has Been An Odd Number In The Player Line Up..
shit, you got me
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Vipsy. Have free love you can't interact with until the game is over: <3<3<3
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Light_Yagami
Could Just Be A Coincidence
You're starting to sound like L noticing patterns like that lol.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Btw if any of you really think I would never take the opportunity completely smash Ozy with a bus just shows I've been gone to long and I'm not as well known as I used to be :(
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Light_Yagami
I Noticed Something In The Player Order.. Every Scum Thus Far Has Been An Odd Number In The Player Line Up..
wait i just realized you outed yourself because i know i am town !!!
-vote Light_Yagami
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SuperJack
Btw if any of you really think I would never take the opportunity completely smash Ozy with a bus just shows I've been gone to long and I'm not as well known as I used to be :(
Bus ? Did you even vote ozy ?
Also, why are you sad that people dont know anymore that are evil ?
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Loldebite
shit, you got me
It Is You Aint It...
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SuperJack
You're starting to sound like L noticing patterns like that lol.
Yeah I Guess So..lol
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Lag is almost certainly town. I would be very astonished if they did any of the stuff they are doing this game as scum. Giving town a mech lock way of victory (and I've explained why it would actually work)? That'd be insanity and you'd be betting on town like me standing up to it just out of principle.
Martin is very very likely town. Didn't do a full analysis of spew, but the spew I did get was that they were trying to use Martin as a sort of tool to attack Lag/MM with (MM did a so called "bad attack" on Martin, Varcron/Ozy attacked the two d1 and d2 for "strawmanning Martin"). Screams to me "white knighting", and very unlikely something a scum buddy would do to another scum buddy. VCA with S/S wagon makes it even less likely Martin would be scum, because he went from busing a partner to busing ANOTHER partner, which is silly since all it does is make both your scum buddies be under the spotlight, and you don't get significantly more town points anyways since you were already busing a partner in the first place. Final point, Martin slipped as town at the beginning of the game. More of a cherry on the top reasoning, if anything.
Lighthack, out of the town core, I would argue has the least hard evidence backing them up. D1 VC doesn't help them much (first vote is very easily a bus), I don't remember their slot being a significant voice against Ozy (They did vote them, but they were the third vote I believe, which is also an easy bus vote since the wagon had already picked up steam), and spew actually doesn't really help them (they kind of just TRed Light and left the slot alone).
Why I TR them, and why I presume others townread them as well, is simply meta, the way they've been playing, how they've developed their reads, and stuff like that. Light and PQR are fairly open players thoughts wise, and to me, the thoughts just flow very naturally, and they are very tonally townie as well. Their doubts regarding Lag didn't ever really seem like a way of attacking her credibility, but rather like someone who is genuinely skeptical.
I don't actually remember why I TRed MM. Pretty sure it's just meta based off the fact he seems more involved than last game. He also got attacked a lot by Ozy so there's that. Which could also be a point against him considering how Ozy was trying to build a team, likely to get rid of the most vocal town leader, and might have included his actual scum buddy for the purpose of getting at lag if MM ever flips...
Well, I'm not actually sure. That whole interaction is worth analysis but I don't really feel like I ever have time for it.
SJ is weird in that I don't really get what he's trying to achieve from any of his actions. He tried to argue Wrath was town just on the basis Wrath forgot someone. Also keeps trying to argue Lagiver is scum. Never quite saw his logic. If he's scum, idk what he's doing. If he's town, idk what he's doing. Hesitant to lynch. Starting to think this could just be town.
Loldebite is... Meh. Has kind of just been there this game. Would be willing to lynch.
WrathCyber is completely inactive. Was last vote on Mizery, so I suppose that's SOMETHING. Not much though.
In order of who I'd want to lynch....
Loldebite > WrathCyber > SuperJack > MM
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Loldebite
wait i just realized you outed yourself because i know i am town !!!
-vote Light_Yagami
Yeah Im Town Also..
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gikkle
Lag is almost certainly town. I would be very astonished if they did any of the stuff they are doing this game as scum. Giving town a mech lock way of victory (and I've explained why it would actually work)? That'd be insanity and you'd be betting on town like me standing up to it just out of principle.
Martin is very very likely town. Didn't do a full analysis of spew, but the spew I did get was that they were trying to use Martin as a sort of tool to attack Lag/MM with (MM did a so called "bad attack" on Martin, Varcron/Ozy attacked the two d1 and d2 for "strawmanning Martin"). Screams to me "white knighting", and very unlikely something a scum buddy would do to another scum buddy. VCA with S/S wagon makes it even less likely Martin would be scum, because he went from busing a partner to busing ANOTHER partner, which is silly since all it does is make both your scum buddies be under the spotlight, and you don't get significantly more town points anyways since you were already busing a partner in the first place. Final point, Martin slipped as town at the beginning of the game. More of a cherry on the top reasoning, if anything.
Lighthack, out of the town core, I would argue has the least hard evidence backing them up. D1 VC doesn't help them much (first vote is very easily a bus), I don't remember their slot being a significant voice against Ozy (They did vote them, but they were the third vote I believe, which is also an easy bus vote since the wagon had already picked up steam), and spew actually doesn't really help them (they kind of just TRed Light and left the slot alone).
Why I TR them, and why I presume others townread them as well, is simply meta, the way they've been playing, how they've developed their reads, and stuff like that. Light and PQR are fairly open players thoughts wise, and to me, the thoughts just flow very naturally, and they are very tonally townie as well. Their doubts regarding Lag didn't ever really seem like a way of attacking her credibility, but rather like someone who is genuinely skeptical.
I don't actually remember why I TRed MM. Pretty sure it's just meta based off the fact he seems more involved than last game. He also got attacked a lot by Ozy so there's that. Which could also be a point against him considering how Ozy was trying to build a team, likely to get rid of the most vocal town leader, and might have included his actual scum buddy for the purpose of getting at lag if MM ever flips...
Well, I'm not actually sure. That whole interaction is worth analysis but I don't really feel like I ever have time for it.
SJ is weird in that I don't really get what he's trying to achieve from any of his actions. He tried to argue Wrath was town just on the basis Wrath forgot someone. Also keeps trying to argue Lagiver is scum. Never quite saw his logic. If he's scum, idk what he's doing. If he's town, idk what he's doing. Hesitant to lynch. Starting to think this could just be town.
Loldebite is... Meh. Has kind of just been there this game. Would be willing to lynch.
WrathCyber is completely inactive. Was last vote on Mizery, so I suppose that's SOMETHING. Not much though.
In order of who I'd want to lynch....
Loldebite > WrathCyber > SuperJack > MM
Actually, switch Superjack and Wrath. I don't trust him that much.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Are my actions really that forgettable, Gikkle? :(
I've literally led the pushes on the two fipped scum (along with Lag) and more or less built the PoE myself. I didn't spam posts but still, come on! I matter too! :calix:
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
SJ could just be trying to play the ol "I'd never do this as scum, y'all are being silly :P" trick to try and get in our heads instead of actually helping us identify the last scum
like he's not actually been helpful at all today
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
As Me And PQ Have Discussed SJ And Loldebite Are Our Top Suspects..
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marshmallow Marshall
Are my actions really that forgettable, Gikkle? :(
I've literally led the pushes on the two fipped scum (along with Lag) and more or less built the PoE myself. I didn't spam posts but still, come on! I matter too! :calix:
Yeah, sorry, I just don't remember much of the stuff you've done. If what you say is true, then an in depth analysis will (probably) only confirm the consensus, but I think it's still necessary.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Only thing keeping me from trying to save SJ is how utterly unhelpful he's being
He's even voting the one person we are absolutely never lynching today
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gikkle
Only thing keeping me from trying to save SJ is how utterly unhelpful he's being
He's even voting the one person we are absolutely never lynching today
Mmmmmm don't need saving tho do I?
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SuperJack
Mmmmmm don't need saving tho do I?
https://i.redd.it/pr865la3i9141.jpg
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SuperJack
Mmmmmm don't need saving tho do I?
I think any townie should want to live and help town as just a basic thing. If you're town, you know you're town, so you should want like Loldebite or Wrath to go over rather than you.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Complimentary policy vote for afk play WrathCyber
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gikkle
I think any townie should want to live and help town as just a basic thing. If you're town, you know you're town, so you should want like Loldebite or Wrath to go over rather than you.
Mmmm. No lol, dying is being part of town. A good death is better than a boring life.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SuperJack
Mmmm. No lol, dying is being part of town. A good death is better than a boring life.
Lol this is more as if peeps benifit more from your death. It's in no way a recommendation to jump out of a plane and do 500 barrel rolls.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SuperJack
Lol this is more as if peeps benifit more from your death. It's in no way a recommendation to jump out of a plane and do 500 barrel rolls.
https://i.giphy.com/media/ZQMVKzoTLdNBu/giphy.webp