S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

Busdriver IMO should play the beginning of the game as if they are citizen. The setup has the potential to be chaotic enough as it is, I don't see much benefit to bussing anything that isn't a confirmed town role.

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Originally Posted by MattZed

1. I would like to be your friend. :<
2. It didn't have anything to do with what I quoted, but I still wanted to know how you plan to make D1 productive.



This man gets it!

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Making a friend list is productive.

1. Martin
2. Helz
3. Naz

--------------------------- <- if you are below this line you are not friend.

Everyone else

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Originally Posted by Frinckles

Making a friend list is productive.

1. Martin
2. Helz
3. Naz

--------------------------- <- if you are below this line you are not friend.

Everyone else

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So I got friended only to not make the friends list?

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

So I got friended only to not make the friends list?

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4. Unknown

Sorry I forgot

@Awut

What would happen if a Busdriver was targeted by an operator?

Like, for example:

Player A is Busdriver
Player B is Hunter
Player C is Citizen
Player D is Operator

Player A (Busdriver) switches Players C and D.
Player B (Hunter) tries to shoot player C.
Player D (Operator) switches Players A and B's targets.

What would happen? Would the Hunter try to shoot two people at once, and the Busdriver only visits player C?

This is assuming the Hunter has two charges.

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

@Awut

What would happen if a Busdriver was targeted by an operator?

Like, for example:

Player A is Busdriver
Player B is Hunter
Player C is Citizen
Player D is Operator

Player A (Busdriver) switches Players C and D.
Player B (Hunter) tries to shoot player C.
Player D (Operator) switches Players A and B's targets.

What would happen? Would the Hunter try to shoot two people at once, and the Busdriver only visits player C?

This is assuming the Hunter has two charges.

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@Auwt

@Auwt , does a Bus Driver show up as "visiting" their two targets to investigative roles?

This would really affect how I feel about BD's using an N1 action.

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Originally Posted by MattZed

Why in the world do you want the Switcher to hold onto their role as long as possible? None of their night actions actively help town. And waiting until late game to lynch the switcher at a time when we may NEED to be lynching Triad is... questionable. Waiting until lategame could just as well increase their chances to side with Triad.

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Fair point. In either situation I would like to see the switcher mitigated. I will point out that even if the first switcher chooses to use his ability at any time in the game anyone can receive that role and decide to go with this plan. It will tilt the odds in favor of the town pretty hard. Assuming we have a scientist we can verify the role.

It also offers us the not so kind ability to eliminate a toxic player because alignments move.

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Originally Posted by MattZed

Butler peaks are also suboptimal: Butlers can leave LWs, and there's nothing that can erase them. So why put a name just out in the open? We'd be risking outing a Butler by process of elimination when people don't stand up particularly hard for their peeks.

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I forgot lastwills are a thing. Thats a standard play in the majority of communitys for N0 peek reveals while insulating the PR from revealing.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

What I meant was that whoever the switcher gives their role to is automatically losing, assuming it's successful.

I agree with you that there is no reason the Switcher shouldn't reveal themselves day 2 and say who they swapped. I also don't think there is any need for the Busdriver to use their night action on the first night. It would only do more good than bad.

You mentioned weaponizing the switchers ability, but seem to believe that having them reveal is the better option. Just want to clarify that's what you're thinking.

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It would be better if they revealed today. Then a scientist could verify them N1

Just realized Bakermir and Dark Magician are in this game

time to misread them again :[

I never correctly read them

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

@Awut

What would happen if a Busdriver was targeted by an operator?

Like, for example:

Player A is Busdriver
Player B is Hunter
Player C is Citizen
Player D is Operator

Player A (Busdriver) switches Players C and D.
Player B (Hunter) tries to shoot player C.
Player D (Operator) switches Players A and B's targets.

What would happen? Would the Hunter try to shoot two people at once, and the Busdriver only visits player C?

This is assuming the Hunter has two charges.

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Operator acts before Busdriver.
Busdriver acts before Hunter.

So Busdriver will swap C with C (nothing happens).
And the Hunter will shoot C and D.

Exactly like you said, keep in mind that the order of action is quite important in the event of an Operator.

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Originally Posted by MattZed

@Auwt , does a Bus Driver show up as "visiting" their two targets to investigative roles?

This would really affect how I feel about BD's using an N1 action.

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Yes Busdriver will "visit" both players they are switching, and will therefore be visible to investigative roles.

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Originally Posted by Helz

It would be better if they revealed today. Then a scientist could verify them N1

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I just don't see where you're coming from with this. Are you suggesting not lynching the switcher at all?

I'm still mulling over what @Helz said, but I have an idea.


I am town.

Oh jeeze so an Operator in the game with a bus driver could really mess things up if the operator targets a bus driver and another TPR.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I just don't see where you're coming from with this. Are you suggesting not lynching the switcher at all?

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Well no. I am suggesting not lynching the one that chooses to work with the town. He claims and in exchange for his cooperation we give him protection. Then he swaps and tells us who he swapped with and we can lynch that person eliminating the switcher alignment.

Or- If he does not want to trust us he could reveal after switching. Either way we get to eliminate the switcher and the town will be in a much stronger position.

Getting rid of that role is important to me because if we do not we have to scum hunt on a day to day basis. We can not effectively carry reads across days because alignments can change. This creates a substantial problem for us to scum hunt.

DRAGON HEAD, I DARE YOU TO SHOOT ME. I AM NOT ONE OF YOUR OWN.

Any one else brave enough to join me in taunting the DH?

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Originally Posted by MattZed

DRAGON HEAD, I DARE YOU TO SHOOT ME. I AM NOT ONE OF YOUR OWN.

Any one else brave enough to join me in taunting the DH?

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stop fakeclaiming bus driver

This is a lot more complex than I thought. I don't want to spell out the whole situation folding out, but perhaps your idea makes sense assuming that all of the switchers follow through with it.

The risky route vs the safe route. A lot of ways it could play out well. I have to give Helz more credit for thinking about it differently.

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Originally Posted by MattZed

DRAGON HEAD, I DARE YOU TO SHOOT ME. I AM NOT ONE OF YOUR OWN.

Any one else brave enough to join me in taunting the DH?

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Mike is in this game?

see what I did there? Twenty layers of wifom

Btw why are we assuming a switcher that switches n1 and calls out the switcher d2 will be town?

What if they switch with a triad?

We could force the switcher to hard claim a role, but if they're town honestly any hard-claim might be bad because they're either a powerful town role or one of the rare citizen roles.

I'm a bit skeptical about all of this talk regarding that "switcher should switch to remove the switcher role from the game" sort of concept.

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Originally Posted by Frinckles

stop fakeclaiming bus driver

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I do not claim to be bus driver, nor do I claim to NOT be bus driver.

I am merely town. I will not engage in "ohohoho I might be Triad, so maybe you should shoot someone else." Information helps us far more than it helps Triad, so I am revealing some information.

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Originally Posted by MattZed

I do not claim to be bus driver, nor do I claim to NOT be bus driver.

I am merely town. I will not engage in "ohohoho I might be Triad, so maybe you should shoot someone else." Information helps us far more than it helps Triad, so I am revealing some information.

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I claim to be one of the town roles that exists in this setup. I might be Busdriver, but I also might not be Busdriver.

I honestly think that the switcher is now an extra town role if used properly.

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Originally Posted by MattZed

I do not claim to be bus driver, nor do I claim to NOT be bus driver.

I am merely town. I will not engage in "ohohoho I might be Triad, so maybe you should shoot someone else." Information helps us far more than it helps Triad, so I am revealing some information.

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Okay, I've thought about this post a bit and I've come to the conclusion that MattZed's plausibly town for now.

-vote renegade

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

Okay, I've thought about this post a bit and I've come to the conclusion that MattZed's plausibly town for now.

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Matt is bleeding town lol

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Originally Posted by Frinckles

-vote renegade

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meh. Anyone else?

kill that guy lurking over there

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

Btw why are we assuming a switcher that switches n1 and calls out the switcher d2 will be town?

What if they switch with a triad?

We could force the switcher to hard claim a role, but if they're town honestly any hard-claim might be bad because they're either a powerful town role or one of the rare citizen roles.

I'm a bit skeptical about all of this talk regarding that "switcher should switch to remove the switcher role from the game" sort of concept.

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So what if they switch with a Triad? The new Switcher is still against their alignment, so they have an incentive to out them.

Sure, I'd *like* to know the role they have now, but I'll settle for lynching someone who needs to die for my wincon to happen.

-vote MartinGG99

:toadette:

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

-vote MartinGG99

:toadette:

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no friends dont vote friends friend

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Originally Posted by Frinckles

kill that guy lurking over there

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He often lurks unless he has a bone to pick with another person

*glances at Zedus and Bruno as examples*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

Btw why are we assuming a switcher that switches n1 and calls out the switcher d2 will be town?

What if they switch with a triad?

We could force the switcher to hard claim a role, but if they're town honestly any hard-claim might be bad because they're either a powerful town role or one of the rare citizen roles.

I'm a bit skeptical about all of this talk regarding that "switcher should switch to remove the switcher role from the game" sort of concept.

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I considered that and I don't think it matters. If that player is Triad it is still good for his team to eliminate the switcher.

The only reason not to throw the switcher to the town after you swapped is if you want to bet on the switching win condition. The odds of that are extremely low though. The earliest that could happen is D6 with swaps working out perfectly.

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

He often lurks unless he has a bone to pick with another person

*glances at Zedus and Bruno as examples*

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He often lurks when he gets a town power role or scum

Switcher day 2 reveal is always the play.

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Originally Posted by MattZed

So what if they switch with a Triad? The new Switcher is still against their alignment, so they have an incentive to out them.

Sure, I'd *like* to know the role they have now, but I'll settle for lynching someone who needs to die for my wincon to happen.

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Oh I'm not saying to not lynch/eliminate the new-switcher claim, but I wanted to establish that didn't give a whole lot of town credit to the old-switcher.

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Originally Posted by Frinckles

He often lurks when he gets a town power role or scum

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Well this setup is rather power-role heavy I suppose.

-vote Renegade

I should really look into when was the last time he was citizen / Non-TPR lol.

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Originally Posted by Frinckles

He often lurks when he gets a town power role or scum

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

Well this setup is rather power-role heavy I suppose.

-vote Renegade

I should really look into when was the last time he was citizen / Non-TPR lol.

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I would like some explanation for the Renegate votes...

You both think he's doing behavior that indicates either his Town PR or Scum meta. But it's possible most town roles are PRs, so how does this remotely narrow it down to the point you want to vote him for it?

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

Well this setup is rather power-role heavy I suppose.

-vote Renegade

I should really look into when was the last time he was citizen / Non-TPR lol.

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-vote MartinGG99

I don't think I like you or Frinkles basically voting someone while calling them TPR. That is a very bad look

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Originally Posted by Helz

-vote MartinGG99

I don't think I like you or Frinkles basically voting someone while calling them TPR. That is a very bad look

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If it was that big of a deal he'd reveal. We have a BD anyway.

@Helz , plz stop repeating me.

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Originally Posted by Frinckles

If it was that big of a deal he'd reveal. We have a BD anyway.

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Are you the switcher?

These statements do not come from a town perspective at all.

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Originally Posted by MattZed

@Helz , plz stop repeating me.

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Lol. The mind meld is real~

I was suspicious of Martins questioning, but I also wanted to point out how it felt like Frinckles was trying to look for his 'friends' (teammates) in a almost too obvious to be true sort of way. Martin feels very cautious in their messages towards the switcher role. Not certain what that indicates to me.

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Originally Posted by MattZed

I would like some explanation for the Renegate votes...

You both think he's doing behavior that indicates either his Town PR or Scum meta. But it's possible most town roles are PRs, so how does this remotely narrow it down to the point you want to vote him for it?

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Originally Posted by Helz

-vote MartinGG99

I don't think I like you or Frinkles basically voting someone while calling them TPR. That is a very bad look

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Frinckles is a much stronger player than I am, and he's one of my strongest town reads atm

To not consider sheeping him fmpov in my position is odd.

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

He often lurks unless he has a bone to pick with another person

*glances at Zedus and Bruno as examples*

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Originally Posted by Frinckles

He often lurks when he gets a town power role or scum

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Leave Britney alone!

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

Frinckles is a much stronger player than I am, and he's one of my strongest town reads atm

To not consider sheeping him fmpov in my position is odd.

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Did this site get a "sheep your strongest town reads" meta in the 3 years I've been gone? 0_o

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

Well this setup is rather power-role heavy I suppose.

-vote Renegade

I should really look into when was the last time he was citizen / Non-TPR lol.

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This feels like an attempt at applying pressure, except the way you write it almost takes away the point of voting him. It sounds like you don't even believe it yourself.