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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ganelon
I mean, I can’t really argue with this I suppose. You are definitely right, but I do still feel that I am being personally attacked (not by you ofc, dw im suggesting that), and these people aren’t getting called out for their behavior.
You can stop saying things like "these people" and start saying "banana" lol
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BananaCucho
"Changes in society affect me"
Yeah a change on a niche site that less than 100 people frequent is a pretty big societal shift, eesh
THIS is a society.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ganelon
Not ONCE on this entire thread did I personally attack someone - and yet I’m the one being called offensive. I’ve been attacked multiple times however and you don’t see me yelling about it. I DO mind, make no mistake, but not enough to mention it. I’m only mentioning it now because I’m getting called out for saying I’m kind of a cunt, whereas others who’ve personally belittled me and insulted me aren’t. This is what’s known as a double standard.
can you report these messages? there's a ton of staff that's supposed to be addressing these things. from my perspective, i haven't seen direct attacks, but a lot of toe the line. I haven't been reporting them, because I'm fallible.
Let's all check ourselves and make sure we're not attacking each other. Ideas are okay, but not the people behind it.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aamirus
What does that have to do with anything? I’m replying to him saying he’s being unjustly attacked by pointing out that his original post was attacking anybody with an opposing view
It has to do with the fact that we can't uphold the simple rule to not shit talk while we have a conversation. This goes for all cases. I'm not surprised this subforum was deleted.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Voss
can you report these messages? there's a ton of staff that's supposed to be addressing these things. from my perspective, i haven't seen direct attacks, but a lot of toe the line. I haven't been reporting them, because I'm fallible.
Let's all check ourselves and make sure we're not attacking each other. Ideas are okay, but not the people behind it.
sure. Wildo
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Voss
even blizzard stepped in when "jew" was a word that triggered the gas execution.
Yeah it's the intention behind the action where people should draw their opinions, not so much the act itself. This is actually a core philosophy of how we moderate the arcade map :)
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Frinckles
It has to do with the fact that we can't uphold the simple rule to not shit talk while we have a conversation. This goes for all cases. I'm not surprised this subforum was deleted.
Honestly, I know this is hypocritical coming from me but it would be a REALLY good idea to ban political discussion altogether. The only thing is, this isn’t strictly a political discussion. It’s ahaped by politics but that’s not what it is.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Voss
we're having a discussion about it, here in this thread. that's what's causing this revelation to change things. and for me personally, having the chance to reflect on these things in this thread has made me think about the issue. if mag hadn't made this post, i wouldn't have had that chance to reflect on it.
i don't know that i'd be so keen to keep going down this path, only because this is exhaustive. like if we were really going through the graphics of the arcade mafia, mothership seems comical, but gassing seems particularly gruesome. even blizzard stepped in when "jew" was a word that triggered the gas execution.
I feel where you're coming from and I agree, it is exhaustive and I don't know where it ends.
I also don't know why Elmer Fudd has a scythe.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ganelon
THIS is a society.
This society has changed many times before and it will continue to change after you are gone.
If that change includes someone being (IMO acceptably) uncomfortable with the prospect of lynching, be it due to historical reasons, political reasons, or reasons having to do with the fact that they had an uncomfortable run-in WITH A LYNCHING, then I will welcome it with open arms. It's a word. That isn't much of a change. You should be expected to not be an asshole and follow the precedent that is set here.
This isn't a PragerU-esque "The left wants to take away your penis!" scenario. This is revolving around an outdated term originating from a 10 year old mod of a game. Your freedoms aren't even like, brought into question here.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ganelon
Honestly, I know this is hypocritical coming from me but it would be a REALLY good idea to ban political discussion altogether. The only thing is, this isn’t strictly a political discussion. It’s ahaped by politics but that’s not what it is.
That's because people like to turn everything into a political discussion when in reality it really shouldn't be.
Politics is "who gets what, when, and how." in reference to who gets what resources, when they're distributed and how they're distributed.
At least that's what I was taught in my political science classes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
I find it incredibly awkward that the word "Lynching" is being defended so vehemently as though it has no ties to the killings of hundreds of African-Americans. The context that we use it for here is the niche context. It is definitely not standard.
I don't care whether it's kept here or not. I'm amazed how people care whether it's kept on a completely different website or not. And I guess I struggle with seeing how other people DO care because it completely doesn't make sense to me because it's a change that will not effect my daily life in real life, and will not effect my browsing here in any way shape or form.
I also don't think that you can't call yourself racist if you LEAVE A SITE because they changed the word "lynch" to "eliminate".
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Stealthbomber16
Your freedoms aren't even like, brought into question here.
I demand to be free to read words how I want to read them.
We just need to hurry up and plug into the matrix so we can alter our realities to reflect what we want them to be. Our safe spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
You know how many blacks were killed via lynching? Wanna take a guess? Because the number isn’t that high. And it’s not the first time in history lynchings have happened, and in the context of Mafia it literally has nothing to do with that. I don’t even understand where you’re coming from suggesting I may be racist for ‘leaving the site’ if the word gets changed. I’m not American, I don’t even associate the term with racial lynchings like some Americans do. That part is virtually unknown outside of the US.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Stealthbomber16
This society has changed many times before and it will continue to change after you are gone.
If that change includes someone being (IMO acceptably) uncomfortable with the prospect of lynching, be it due to historical reasons, political reasons, or reasons having to do with the fact that they had an uncomfortable run-in WITH A LYNCHING, then I will welcome it with open arms. It's a word. That isn't much of a change. You should be expected to not be an asshole and follow the precedent that is set here.
This isn't a PragerU-esque "The left wants to take away your penis!" scenario. This is revolving around an outdated term originating from a 10 year old mod of a game. Your freedoms aren't even like, brought into question here.
I don’t mind change dude. I mind shit change, and this would be a shit change that would drive users away and invite the exact people you don’t want to be on the forums.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
deathworlds
That's because people like to turn everything into a political discussion when in reality it really shouldn't be.
Politics is "who gets what, when, and how." in reference to who gets what resources, when they're distributed and how they're distributed.
At least that's what I was taught in my political science classes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
True, but in this scenario the discussion is definitely rooted in politics, and I don’t see how it couldn’t be.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
It’s nice to know that’s how you feel about me, stealth, though. Kind of disappointed in you.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ganelon
I don’t mind change dude. I mind shit change, and this would be a shit change that would drive users away and invite the exact people you don’t want to be on the forums.
Is it really a shit change?
Is it really a change that matters at all? changing the text for 1 bot from 1 word to another one?
Would it drive literally anyone away?
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
I've been advised to lock this thread. Putting this on pause for 12 or so hours to let people cool down.
you WILL be infracted if you post in this thread after this is closed.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Reopening this thread. Treat this like the opposite of circle jerk. Please and thank you!
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ganelon
I don’t mind change dude. I mind shit change, and this would be a shit change that would drive users away and invite the exact people you don’t want to be on the forums.
I changed it (rather, pushed for the change because I couldn't be fucked to do it myself) to yeet because I think it'd be hilarious if the bot said "yeeted" instead of "lynched". I'm also a pretty big troll and I thought it would be funny to see people get their panties in a twist over it. Hell I think it'd be kind of entertaining if as a community we added some fun flair to shit like that, like we've already been doing. Maybe having holiday themes on the bot text and whatnot.
Literally nobody pushed me to do this, nor did I do it to really include anyone. I don't directly know of anyone who wanted this change other than myself (at least, before I proposed it) and I don't particularly care about whoever wants to come to the forum now because of this. I just think yeet is a funny word.
Since I coded the entire bot myself, and wrote all the phrases myself, I'm exercising my own creative liberty in controlling what it does. Just like how when I was designing the logo of this site, I didn't add a noose and instead added a fedora because that's the artistic choice I felt like making. Or how sometimes I used to add silly flairs like snowflakes or bunnies falling from the top of the site.
You can absolutely whine, threaten to leave, or protest this change. For all it's worth, it might work.
But if you do that, you'll have to live with knowing that you repressed my own free speech and my right to make the statements I want to make with the art and tech I produce, solely to pander to your idea of politics. Because you were upset by a word change I made for fun. Would you be able to, in good faith, continue your free speech crusade, knowing that leftists have never successfully pushed me to change my speech or the way I express myself, but you have?
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
@Voss
bro you forgot to open the thread
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
@Stealthbomber16
I wanted to say that I am not disappointed in you, but rather proud of you for speaking your mind.
I really really really like this new stealth (this isn't the first time he's done it, and even though I disagreed with him last time I think it's better that people feel free to speak up)
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ganelon
Honestly, I know this is hypocritical coming from me but it would be a REALLY good idea to ban political discussion altogether. The only thing is, this isn’t strictly a political discussion. It’s ahaped by politics but that’s not what it is.
So, censorship?
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BananaCucho
So, censorship?
i wouldn't call it censorship, but i'm fairly sure that there's no plan to implement this ban.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Voss
i wouldn't call it censorship, but i'm fairly sure that there's no plan to implement this ban.
If it were to be implemented as suggested though, what would you call that? Restricting speech?
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BananaCucho
If it were to be implemented as suggested though, what would you call that? Restricting speech?
i think this is veering off topic and would like to say that although the admins would like to uphold free speech on the forums, they don't have to and would be well within their rights to ban political speech. One reason that they don't is that it's not the kind of community they want to have here.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Voss
i think this is veering off topic and would like to say that although the admins would like to uphold free speech on the forums, they don't have to and would be well within their rights to ban political speech. One reason that they don't is that it's not the kind of community they want to have here.
I don't think it's off topic at all. If the admins have the right to choose whether or not to ban political speech, it's obvious that they also have the right to choose what word is used for eliminations.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Voss
i wouldn't call it censorship, but i'm fairly sure that there's no plan to implement this ban.
I confirm that there are no plans on my side to get people infracted for using the word "lynch". Note that even sites that officially adopted another term did not do that.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marshmallow Marshall
I confirm that there are no plans on my side to get people infracted for using the word "lynch". Note that even sites that officially adopted another term did not do that.
I don't think this was ever in question lol
Voss was referring to a potential ban on politics as suggested by another user. Unless I completely misread that lol
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Dude what if whoever won an FM got to pick the word the bot uses for the next one lmao.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oops_ur_dead
Dude what if whoever won an FM got to pick the word the bot uses for the next one lmao.
YES
MVP from the winning faction picks the next word
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oops_ur_dead
Dude what if whoever won an FM got to pick the word the bot uses for the next one lmao.
You have to play now since it’s your great idea.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ganelon
It’s nice to know that’s how you feel about me, stealth, though. Kind of disappointed in you.
If you are disappointed in me for having my own political views, that’s fine. I can live with that. I used to look up to you as a player and as a person but the hissy fit you’ve thrown here has made me really sad. I don’t think there is any reason to be upset over a word change. I don’t think it reflects a societal change. I don’t think it really reflects a site change. Oops is doing it to be funny. I think that beyond being funny it could also be a (barely) constructive change.
I don’t know why you are upset over this change. How does the bot not saying lynch damage your freedom of speech? It’s not like the word is banned or anything? Does anybody actually ever READ the bot anymore? I just skim through the vote and see who got lynched.
I don’t see why you are so adamant that other people are assholes because your vocabulary makes them uncomfortable. Believe it or not, repeatedly using a term that you KNOW makes people uncomfortable makes you an asshole. You can choose to deal with that or you can choose to be mad about it. But if you get mad about it you won’t change the fact that you are being an asshole. I don’t mean this in a rude way. I mean this in a constructive way. If the fact that a large portion of our community has come together to tell you that right now you are being an asshole doesn’t phase you or make you think “hey maybe I’m being a bit of an asshole” then I’m not sure what will.
I’m going to end this completely worthless rant by saying that right now you are being a stereotype. You are a stereotypical image of a right-winger to a leftist. I’m more of a leftist and it makes me sad because I know that you are a much deeper person than that. But getting upset that a bot that you didnt develop is changing a single word that has historical subtext in a community that you are not in just reeks of being spoiled. You can dislike me for that opinion, that’s fine. Why are you so afraid of change? What do you think would come after this? We have to replace the mafia with babies because the mafia killed a bunch of people? We call it sc2baby? Nah.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Please let me know if there was a more constructive way to word that post. I do not mean to insult you.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
I think there is a fear that this could snowball into something more. But I don't think it will because the staff doesn't really want to become the moral authority on everything, primarily because it's time consuming and that's not exactly why we're here.
The reason why we're talking about this one word was because it was brought up, and now a ton of discussion has been generated, so it's well documented now on how the community feels. I don't think the community wants to go through this process over and over again. But that's just my take here.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Voss
I think there is a fear that this could snowball into something more. But I don't think it will because the staff doesn't really want to become the moral authority on everything, primarily because it's time consuming and that's not exactly why we're here.
The reason why we're talking about this one word was because it was brought up, and now a ton of discussion has been generated, so it's well documented now on how the community feels. I don't think the community wants to go through this process over and over again. But that's just my take here.
I mean... I don't see what other words would change? I'm pretty indifferent on the term lynch in general.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
I propose that we move forward with sc2baby rebranding
On a serious note, I would like an actual sc2 theme rebrand tbh. We did this with H Y D R A accounts, making them Archon accounts instead. Why not fully embrace the theme?
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BananaCucho
I propose that we move forward with sc2baby rebranding
On a serious note, I would like an actual sc2 theme rebrand tbh. We did this with H Y D R A accounts, making them Archon accounts instead. Why not fully embrace the theme?
can someone give me the tldr on why there's a difference, and why it was changed?
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Voss
can someone give me the tldr on why there's a difference, and why it was changed?
Basically "archon" has more or a starcraft feel than *****
I think Crypt is the one who banned ***** lol
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Voss
even blizzard stepped in when "jew" was a word that triggered the gas execution.
Remember when WC3 was perfectly fine and Blizzard stepped in to give us WaRcRaFt ThReE rEfOrGeD? Why does it matter what that shit company steps in to do when it hasn't done anything good in at least 10 years?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Stealthbomber16
We have to replace the mafia with babies because the mafia killed a bunch of people? We call it sc2baby? Nah.
It makes me uncomfortable though.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BananaCucho
Basically "archon" has more or a starcraft feel than *****
I think Crypt is the one who banned ***** lol
really?
*****
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Voss
can someone give me the tldr on why there's a difference, and why it was changed?
Here's some links containing a lot of arguing about the name actually
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...ghlight=archon
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...ghlight=archon
And actually a really funny quote that is 100% relevant to this thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cryptonic
Whoever voted against it is lame
AHHRGRHRHRHR I HATE CHANGE WE CAN'T BE DIFFERENT. I DONT CARE IF IT'S JUST A NAME CHANGE THAT REPRESENTS OUR COMMUNITY, I DON'T LIKE NEW THINGS GARBLE
^direct unironic quote from staff chat
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Voss
really?
*****
okay what the fuck.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Stealthbomber16
If you are disappointed in me for having my own political views, that’s fine. I can live with that. I used to look up to you as a player and as a person but the hissy fit you’ve thrown here has made me really sad. I don’t think there is any reason to be upset over a word change. I don’t think it reflects a societal change. I don’t think it really reflects a site change. Oops is doing it to be funny. I think that beyond being funny it could also be a (barely) constructive change.
I don’t know why you are upset over this change. How does the bot not saying lynch damage your freedom of speech? It’s not like the word is banned or anything? Does anybody actually ever READ the bot anymore? I just skim through the vote and see who got lynched.
I don’t see why you are so adamant that other people are assholes because your vocabulary makes them uncomfortable. Believe it or not, repeatedly using a term that you KNOW makes people uncomfortable makes you an asshole. You can choose to deal with that or you can choose to be mad about it. But if you get mad about it you won’t change the fact that you are being an asshole. I don’t mean this in a rude way. I mean this in a constructive way. If the fact that a large portion of our community has come together to tell you that right now you are being an asshole doesn’t phase you or make you think “hey maybe I’m being a bit of an asshole” then I’m not sure what will.
I’m going to end this completely worthless rant by saying that right now you are being a stereotype. You are a stereotypical image of a right-winger to a leftist. I’m more of a leftist and it makes me sad because I know that you are a much deeper person than that. But getting upset that a bot that you didnt develop is changing a single word that has historical subtext in a community that you are not in just reeks of being spoiled. You can dislike me for that opinion, that’s fine. Why are you so afraid of change? What do you think would come after this? We have to replace the mafia with babies because the mafia killed a bunch of people? We call it sc2baby? Nah.
Yes, you could have worded this post much better. You could take out all the insults entirely, which include: "asshole, stereotype, spoiled", after which you can include more neutral term, but the first thing that would have helped bridge discussion would have been to adopt a hopeful attitude towards Ganelon. Instead of getting mad at him, it does help to take a breath and then contain all the words and tones and feelings that someone else would take negatively overmuch. Perhaps you would call this censuring yourself; however, humans, including you and I do it all the time. Paragaphs with charged wording does not inspire change.
I appreciate your care for this site, but I think you could have discussed with more mild language.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
I'm glad that oops_ur_dead decided to take things into his own hands, so now I can comfortably say I had no say in such a matter.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
secondpassing
Yes, you could have worded this post much better. You could take out all the insults entirely, which include: "asshole, stereotype, spoiled", after which you can include more neutral term, but the first thing that would have helped bridge discussion would have been to adopt a hopeful attitude towards Ganelon. Instead of getting mad at him, it does help to take a breath and then contain all the words and tones and feelings that someone else would take negatively overmuch. Perhaps you would call this censuring yourself; however, humans, including you and I do it all the time. Paragaphs with charged wording does not inspire change.
I appreciate your care for this site, but I think you could have discussed with more mild language.
To be fair, Stealth's ranting has been in response to excessive ranting.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
secondpassing
Yes, you could have worded this post much better. You could take out all the insults entirely, which include: "asshole, stereotype, spoiled", after which you can include more neutral term, but the first thing that would have helped bridge discussion would have been to adopt a hopeful attitude towards Ganelon. Instead of getting mad at him, it does help to take a breath and then contain all the words and tones and feelings that someone else would take negatively overmuch. Perhaps you would call this censuring yourself; however, humans, including you and I do it all the time. Paragaphs with charged wording does not inspire change.
I appreciate your care for this site, but I think you could have discussed with more mild language.
This is fair. My bad.
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
secondpassing
I'm glad that oops_ur_dead decided to take things into his own hands, so now I can comfortably say I had no say in such a matter.
I'm choosing to express the things I've created in the way I want to, insofar as it doesn't harm others experience. Isn't trying to have authority over others' expression the type of free speech suppression everyone is complaining about?
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Re: MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate
As a lyncher IRL I find this change unacceptable and an infringement on my way of life.