And I while I thank for your effort and respect your opinions, I decided they are terrible.
But perhaps as you catch up more, you might change or strenghten your view for better reasons.
If that's you thinking you're super duper townie, think again. You're not and you don't get as many brownie points for being new and eager anymore.
May 26th, 2023, 02:50 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikarusdk
Perhaps they knew Auwt was gonna get flipped anyway.
I think you are reading into it too much but I might be missing something so if you can form an opinion on that later, please do tell.
Well, yes that is kinda the reasoning. I disliked Auwt getting lynched so I had little to loose.
May 26th, 2023, 02:54 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy Drew 39
How does Italiano nk make me scum?
This is a gross strawman, I never said that lol. I said it made it more likely.
From my POV you're biased toward NKing those that you fear, which can't be people you do not know. Which is why I think Italiano dying is a slight bump in odds for those that knew him (AFAIK that's you & Gikkle) to be scum. Obviously WIFOM applies so it is very slim, but I do think it's not null.
That's kind of the same reason I'm surprised Auwt got a role, but maybe I'm vastly overestimating auwt's capabilities as a player (I vastly doubt that I do).
May 26th, 2023, 02:55 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
I'm probably a TERRIBLE scum player tho, because I've never played a single FM game as scum :D
May 26th, 2023, 02:56 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy Drew 39
I could be completely wrong here and of course, all of this is dependent on whatever Ginnkle is but both of them voted for Ginnkle both today and d2 and they have yet to explain that vote.
Oh come on.
May 26th, 2023, 03:00 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Spoiler : Martin on CE :
Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinGG99
I've been thinking about whether mafia should or shouldn't push or defend the CE. I don't think the factional block matters that much, in fact, since it doesn't increase the amount of mis-elimnations that mafia need to obtain in order to win the game (or, worded differently, it doesn't give town an extra mis-elimination that they can afford in the future). See the spoiler of me pondering on the hypotheticals of eliminating and not-eliminating CE.
Spoiler : ramifications of CE elimination by town :
No CE elimination hypothetical:
5-town-advantage over mafia w/ 1 neut, total 6 non-mafia vs 3 mafia
would take 2 mis-eliminations (eliminations of town) for mafia to win, assuming one kill per night
Risk that, if CE gets three more PRs dead in some way, we enter sudden death. Which means voting out up to three mafia in a row. Mathematically though (with the deaths we have so far), if there is only one kill per night, it is impossible for sudden death to happen before the 2nd mis-elimination UNLESS we eliminate a mafia (in other words, game would end at the same time that sudden death happens if three mafia are still alive). So, realistically, worst-case scenario we'll have to vote out two remaining mafia together after correctly voting out one of the three. Otherwise, Sudden Death may very well never exist in this game.
CE elimination hypothetical:
First day phase / today, CE is eliminated. Night phase, no mafia factional NK.
Day phase after CE is eliminated, 5-town-advantage over Mafia's three players
Would again take 2 mis-eliminations to lose to mafia. Sudden death cannot happen.
The situations are roughly similar. In both cases of eliminating and not-eliminating CE we'll still have two mis-eliminations (assuming 1 night kill and day kill per day/night cycle) before mafia out-number the rest of the game and just win. As for the benefit of sudden death, the case where CE's win would affect win conditions, we would have to at worst guess 2 mafia in a row -- it wouldn't be possible to trigger sudden death while all three mafia are alive as sudden death would have to trigger upon the 2nd (and game-ending) miselimination.
So, really, the existence of the Sudden Death mechanic doesn't help mafia at all if we have the following assumptions:
1) No mafia will die.
2) There is one kill per day and per night.
....Which might as well mean that sudden death has no impact on mafia's decision to eliminate or not eliminate CE.
The biggest determining factor of whether Mafia eliminate CE is (I suspect) whether or not the PRs were given to mafia more or town more. Only mafia are aware of this, and if more mafia got PRs than town did (or got equal numbers) then mafia may have reason to eliminate CE. After all, eliminating CE doesn't really change the game (it doesn't increase the amount of miseliminations the town can afford before losing the game). So, really, mafia keep CE around if town got most of the PRs, and eliminate CE if mafia got more of the PRs. Because if Mafia got more of the PRs that were handed out, then CE may as well be a town that is likely to vote the mafia out. And since CE has two bullet-proof vests, its much easier to vote them out than to NK them.
Idk that first assumption that no mafia dies looks like a REAL stretch to me, it shouldn't happen, should it ? I mean isn't it a reasonable assumption that some mafia will die ?
Besides, despite not earning one more day, we would have more information to work with, which certainly can't hurt. All in all, all you've said is that getting CE out is not something that's mandatory to seek, but still definitely something good for town. Not even mentioning that Mafia killing CE is probably game over.
May 26th, 2023, 03:02 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikarusdk
if you are a PR wink at me ;)
why are you PR hunting (again ?) lol
May 26th, 2023, 03:03 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikarusdk
Because if gikkles, yoshida and you are all PRs.
We have a case.
But i would never expect you to reveal rn tho.
If you think me, you're wrong again. Why would I give roles to people I don't know but seem pretty strong (namely Nancy Drew) ?
May 26th, 2023, 03:04 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikarusdk
Just in case this gets misinterpreted.
This is a joke and not to be taken seriously.
If you make the same joke thrice it ceases being a joke. I'm pretty sure I've seen you hunt PRs earlier although I CBA looking for it because I'm a lazy fuck.
May 26th, 2023, 03:05 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gikkle
I only just now checked my mentions and I realized that I was the target of the caroler
and the information of the carol is actually super useful
this is embarrassing lol.
One mafia is between Loldebite, Ikarus, and Stellaria
OMFG you ARE mega stupid wtf
May 26th, 2023, 03:05 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
-vote unvote
May 26th, 2023, 03:05 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gikkle
I trust Ikarus v much rn so it's between Loldebite and Stellaria
Tbh I quite strongly lean Ika but I guess I'm biased
May 26th, 2023, 03:09 AM
Stellaria
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
I'm on again. I'm starting to think catching up with what I missed previous days isn't worth it; I think what I've got so far is sufficient.
I'm fully mind melding with deb right now so yeah if Gikkle is really the carol target then it's gotta be Ikarus. Also if he is, then, wtf? Probably scum trying to cover for scum.
Is there anything I'm missing?
May 26th, 2023, 03:10 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gikkle
weird that you say that because that's sort of the reason why I had such a problem with Loldebite yesterday. He didn't feel like he did in the KRC.
ftr I don't think anyone recognized me in KRC. I tried something else entirely that game.
May 26th, 2023, 03:11 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Well I know renegade at least was quite surprised to learn that I was Blobs
May 26th, 2023, 03:11 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stellaria
Alright well then I'm just right.
-vote ikarusdk
At this point, I don't care if I die. But it's got to be Ikarus. I'm just gonna call Ikarus and myself the PoE at this point because I don't think it can be deb.
Your redemption arc is WONDERFUL ilu
May 26th, 2023, 03:11 AM
Stellaria
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
I didnt realize you were blobs until the conversation we had about the neighborhood, at that point I knew it was you lol
May 26th, 2023, 03:12 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stellaria
Alright well then I'm just right.
-vote ikarusdk
At this point, I don't care if I die. But it's got to be Ikarus. I'm just gonna call Ikarus and myself the PoE at this point because I don't think it can be deb.
unless you're scum but if you're scum life tears us apart and that's just unlucky I guess ;(
May 26th, 2023, 03:12 AM
Stellaria
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loldebite
Your redemption arc is WONDERFUL ilu
🧡 :)
May 26th, 2023, 03:13 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Okay but I really need to stop chain responding like that I hadn't realized I was filling up whole pages all by myself, that's obnoxious af
May 26th, 2023, 03:14 AM
Stellaria
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
I for one had a blast seeing you tear through Ikarus lmfao
May 26th, 2023, 03:17 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frinckles
Took you a while to check your messages when you're a highposter this game :P
How do we know that's real?
my take is : scum would've claimed much earlier lol
cuz scum would've made their mind by night in their chat, so it's increadibly more likely that scum would claim caroling as their first post.
The one opposite argument is if that's a reaction to no one telling anyone about the carolling, but that'd be a bit risky with Buster not having chimed in yet.
@powerofdeath
Do scum share a day AND a night chat or only a night chat ?
May 26th, 2023, 03:20 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gikkle
I mean, there's general playstyle and the way you think about things. My problem with Loldebite wasn't how he was playing, but rather the way his mind was working and the conclusions he was reaching. Even if you're general playstyle shifts (like mine often does depending on the type of game I'm playing), the way you think usually doesn't change that much (I mean, maybe a little depending on how engaged you are in the game)
Doesn't matter that much, I'm more inclined to think Lolde's town rn
Not that it matters rn but I'm legit intrigued in what you perceive as myself thinking differently, I don't think I do but I might've because of paradigmatic changes which I would be very interested in - but that's a matter for post game.
May 26th, 2023, 03:21 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frinckles
Why the hell would you not check your messages when we were guaranteed a Caroler (and you knew you weren't a PR/mafia killer)?
Well, exactly lol. Why the fuck would you be pretending that's it instead of chilling with the almost certainty that caroller whiffed.
May 26th, 2023, 03:23 AM
powerofdeath
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loldebite
my take is : scum would've claimed much earlier lol
cuz scum would've made their mind by night in their chat, so it's increadibly more likely that scum would claim caroling as their first post.
The one opposite argument is if that's a reaction to no one telling anyone about the carolling, but that'd be a bit risky with Buster not having chimed in yet.
@powerofdeath
Do scum share a day AND a night chat or only a night chat ?
Quote:
Vanilla Mafia - You share day and night chat with your fellow members of the Mafia. Mafia are forced to choose to send 1 person to perform a Factional Night Kill each night starting Night 2. You may receive an additional rolecard from Chaotic Executioner on start of Day 2, this will not affect your alignment or win condition. You may perform your new rolecard and be sent to perform the factional kill on the same night.
In the rolecard.
May 26th, 2023, 03:27 AM
Stellaria
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
I'm confused as fuck right now
May 26th, 2023, 03:28 AM
Stellaria
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Like I just thought of something and I, wait hold on
May 26th, 2023, 03:28 AM
Stellaria
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
I need Gikkle here
May 26th, 2023, 03:34 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikarusdk
DID NOT WANT TO CLAIM today but what the heck.
????????
wtf SO MUCH HAPPENING
May 26th, 2023, 03:35 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerofdeath
In the rolecard.
Whoops, sorry... And thanks
May 26th, 2023, 03:38 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Quote:
Originally Posted by yoshida
Martin was hunting for potential TPRs and CE and for no reason you gave it away big time earlier.
I also read the Stand-Off game last night to get a better understanding of you and loldebite, and I am certain you are town and not trying to townslip.
I don't recall that one... Oops, must've been playing terribly
May 26th, 2023, 03:41 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Oh god this is awfully complicated lemme gather my thoughts
May 26th, 2023, 03:42 AM
Stellaria
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
I'm trying to think of a scenario where both Gikkle and Frinckles are good
May 26th, 2023, 03:44 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stellaria
I'm trying to think of a scenario where both Gikkle and Frinckles are good
There are many, probably with all including witches and BDs
May 26th, 2023, 03:44 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Well actually 2 is not many LOL
May 26th, 2023, 03:46 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gikkle
I sorta like this response. Feels genuine.
But in a lot of cases, if a scum knows someone, they fear kill them, as they're worried that player would be able to figure them out eventually. I'm only using the information available to me - that is, you two knew each other (I don't know either of you or the extent of that knowledge). People who know each other are more likely to know each other's tells. Ergo, if you're evil, you are more interested in eliminating that player because it means you have to play more carefully.
Based on past experience, the above is true a lot of the time if only a couple players know each other.
This is a more elaborated answer in the same vein as mine on the same subject, ie why I feel like the NK is a slightly worse look for Nancy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frinckles
Gikkle didn't receive a carol last night. This was just a slowly played out fake carol when enough people had checked in reporting nothing to the thread. We've done it in silent night before.
What tells us THIS isn't why you truly wanted a caroler in the game ?
Okay that thought aged badly
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gikkle
Okay, I mean, you're either just straight up lying or there was bus driver/witch shenanigans. Not really sure what you think I'd gain from lying about being caroled in the first place knowing I could be CCed lol
With a late call you're considerably less likely to be CCed, exactly being people SHOULD realize they've been caroled early, and claim it early. It makes sense for scum to assume that a CC won't happen after a while.
May 26th, 2023, 03:48 AM
Stellaria
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
I don't know. It's hard to imagine Gikkle lying about getting carol results. Just last game I missed the infinity mirror results when I started day but ended up clearing witch for it. But I also recognize that it could be faked. Just weird.
But I also have a hard time believing Frinckles would just lie about being Caroler like that. I dont think scum ever makes a play there. Like, yeah, could just be scum covering for scum. That's dumb tho since it outs two scum. But what if it's not that? Does Frinckles know something?
May 26th, 2023, 03:49 AM
Stellaria
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
oh wait I forgot there was a bus driver
May 26th, 2023, 03:50 AM
Stellaria
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Wait hold on that changes a lot for me
May 26th, 2023, 03:51 AM
Stellaria
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
say Bus Driver swapped Ikarus and Gikkle, then. Wouldn't that affect who Ikarus jails? or am I dumb
May 26th, 2023, 03:51 AM
Stellaria
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
wait no that's stupid Im stupid
May 26th, 2023, 03:53 AM
Stellaria
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Should a town Witch claim?
May 26th, 2023, 03:53 AM
Stellaria
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
or bus driver
May 26th, 2023, 03:54 AM
Stellaria
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
I think Town Witch or Bus Driver should just claim since their actions can really fuck up town PRs.
May 26th, 2023, 03:55 AM
Stellaria
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
If it's a mafia witch, then that means they know Frinckles is Caroler
May 26th, 2023, 03:55 AM
Stellaria
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
wait why THE FUCK would you claim Frinckles? wtf????
May 26th, 2023, 03:55 AM
ikarusdk
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Doing my best rn not to be agitated at stellaria rn.
Idk what is going on anymore. I am confused.
But I've claimed a jailor. There cannot be a CC here. I jailed Martin. I received no other feedback other than my jail. These are facts.
If Frinckles is telling the truth and I don't see why he's pull a thunderdome here if he wasn't, and he caroled me, and in the absence of redirection, he caroled me.
But as PoD verifed, if I indeed received Carol from Frinckles, having no feedback about it makes sense.
May 26th, 2023, 03:57 AM
Stellaria
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
I'm not even saying you're not Jailor Ikarus. So either you convince me that it's deb (good LUCK) or my vote is staying
May 26th, 2023, 03:59 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
I see many ways this day could be happening, most of which (in)appropriately paranoiac.
1) Gikkle is Town V, Frinckles is Town C, and we have either a bus, a witch or an illusionist;
2) Gikkle is Scum whatever, Finckles is Town C and Gikkle tried a gambit;
3) Gikkle is Town V, Frinckles is Scum C and is lying about NOT visiting Gikkle for an easy lynch;
4) Gikkle is Town V, Frinckles is Scum whatever and is lying about caroler to make everything go to shit;
5) Gikkle is Town V, Frinckles is Town whatever and is lying about being Caroler to cover for him and is planning on "changing his mind" and fleshwagoning onto one of us in the carol later on;
6) Gikkle is Scum V, Frinckles is Scum whatever and they are lying to try to lure the Caroler out.
Of these 2) and 6) seem like the least likely, because I simply don't think either gambit is worth and I don't see either player as particularly fond of HIGH risk plays.
Which makes me want to consider that Gikkle is town for the time being. Which implies the carol is real. Which implies that I've been betrayed by either Stellaria or Ika. Life fucking sucks.
May 26th, 2023, 04:01 AM
Loldebite
Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stellaria
say Bus Driver swapped Ikarus and Gikkle, then. Wouldn't that affect who Ikarus jails? or am I dumb
It would not have affected Ika's target.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stellaria
Should a town Witch claim?
Yes. All town with negative roles (Janitor, BD, Witch, Illusionist, Tailor etc) would and should've claimed.