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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Also Lag Something Else Caught My Eye.. Based On You Defending Me Earlier In The Day.. Against Martian And Such When They Had Their Votes On Me.. Made Me Scum Read You More Then Them Having Votes On Me.. On Not Afraid To Be Voted.. Because I Know What Ill Flip And The Info You Get From That Would Allow You To See Who Was Pushing/Advocating For My Lynch.. I Will Flip Town BTW.. Either I Still Think You Are Indeed Scum..
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Light_Yagami
Also Lag Something Else Caught My Eye.. Based On You Defending Me Earlier In The Day.. Against Martian And Such When They Had Their Votes On Me.. Made Me Scum Read You More Then Them Having Votes On Me.. On Not Afraid To Be Voted.. Because I Know What Ill Flip And The Info You Get From That Would Allow You To See Who Was Pushing/Advocating For My Lynch.. I Will Flip Town BTW.. Either I Still Think You Are Indeed Scum..
Either Way I Still Think You Are Scum... ** Correction..
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Light_Yagami
You Really Dont Give A Person Time To Respond Do You.. Im Not Even Pushing You All That Hard.. However, When I Refuse To Change My Stance On You... You Go Blown OMG Because I Presented Light Evidence Of Last Game Where Town Was The One To Come Up With The Idea.. He Refuses To Believe Im Town Because I Came Up With A Similar Idea This Game.. So Just Because You Said This Idea.. This Game Still Doesnt Make You Town.. You Could Be Trying To Use It As Town Reads In General.. Just Saiyan..
They have no factional kill, how are they going to go about killing the high token count players?
Not to mention it's only half as effective because half the tokens go to someone they target after dying anyway.
It's not OMGUS when the reasoning is good.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lag
They have no factional kill, how are they going to go about killing the high token count players?
Not to mention it's only half as effective because half the tokens go to someone they target after dying anyway.
It's not OMGUS when the reasoning is good.
They Can Kill When They Have Enough Tokens Their Self. There Is Destruction Ability In The Token Shop..
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lag
Based on preflipping you? 0%
Based on interactions with you?
Gikkle - 0%
MM - 20%
SuperJack - 50%
Do you disagree with the reads?
I think your MM/SuperJack reads are fine.
I don't really think Gikkle could a relatively strong town-read from anyone's perspective. If you have more than what you've already said about him, I would like to hear it.
I can't give a strong feeling of SJ either way; I'm fairly low-confidence about them.
I'm also thinking if you're a wolf then you've played well so far and with this post so I'm not going to tinfoil you as a wolf for a fair bit.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
My Goal With The Tokens Is Ascension..
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MartinGG99
I think your MM/SuperJack reads are fine.
I don't really think Gikkle could a relatively strong town-read from anyone's perspective. If you have more than what you've already said about him, I would like to hear it.
I can't give a strong feeling of SJ either way; I'm fairly low-confidence about them.
I'm also thinking if you're a wolf then you've played well so far and with this post so I'm not going to tinfoil you as a wolf for a fair bit.
He Said Foil.. Damn It.. Now I Have To Do This...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urglg3WimHA
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MartinGG99
I think your MM/SuperJack reads are fine.
I don't really think Gikkle could a relatively strong town-read from anyone's perspective. If you have more than what you've already said about him, I would like to hear it.
I can't give a strong feeling of SJ either way; I'm fairly low-confidence about them.
I'm also thinking if you're a wolf then you've played well so far and with this post so I'm not going to tinfoil you as a wolf for a fair bit.
Do you think wolves would try to stop town from setting up a claim system so that they can give each other tokens without outting their teammates?
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Lag, I'm not quite sure what your angle is here. In our mutual scum game, did I not strongly argue in favor for a course of action I genuinely thought was the best for town (I even said so in scum chat)? So where's this "scum gikkle would weakly agree" coming from?
I'm not quite sure, then, how I came to be in your top town. Granted day 1 reads are usually pretty weak for anyone, but I'm having a hard time understanding why something like this would place me in your top town pool. I'm not accusing you of anything... yet... I would just like you to elaborate a little because I think the things you've pointed out I could do as scum too.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lag
Do you think wolves would try to stop town from setting up a claim system so that they can give each other tokens without outting their teammates?
Such a system can be advantageous to the wolves
All it means really is that they have to be town-read enough to not get chopped
I mean like all it does is change the rules of the game
but not necessarily what the wolves have to do
Like for example if you get strongly town-read and receive the tokens then there's like 0% chance you die because there's no factional night-kill so any NKA is impossible....and NKA is sometimes or even often used to detect for deep wolves. Which means its tough to find clues that a player is being wrongly town-read unless they lead a bad push or something.
Personally (if leading a wolf team) I would leave it each to their own as to how they would want to approach it as I tend to have that as a policy, though I probably would opt to either:
- try and be more aggressive about my own standing
- be heavily-minded about how my wolf-flip could spew another teammate as town
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gikkle
Lag, I'm not quite sure what your angle is here. In our mutual scum game, did I not strongly argue in favor for a course of action I genuinely thought was the best for town (I even said so in scum chat)? So where's this "scum gikkle would weakly agree" coming from?
I'm not quite sure, then, how I came to be in your top town. Granted day 1 reads are usually pretty weak for anyone, but I'm having a hard time understanding why something like this would place me in your top town pool. I'm not accusing you of anything... yet... I would just like you to elaborate a little because I think the things you've pointed out I could do as scum too.
That is true, and is a good point - I actually had forgotten about that when I made the read. But yes, as I remember it in that game, you didn't strongly argue for it, you stated your support for it, but once we saw that town was going ahead to do the more scum-favored option on their own, you were fine to just let it happen, which is different from the vibe I've seen from you here.
Your Deck Mafia 4 gladiator idea was more of what I had in mind when I formed that read, where you came up with a way to use a card that was so pro-town it was deemed an exploit and you got modkilled for it.
You're not my top town read, you're one of three, and as you said, there's still plenty of time for reads to change as it's early into day 1 after all.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MartinGG99
Such a system can be advantageous to the wolves
All it means really is that they have to be town-read enough to not get chopped
I mean like all it does is change the rules of the game
but not necessarily what the wolves have to do
Like for example if you get strongly town-read and receive the tokens then there's like 0% chance you die because there's no factional night-kill so any NKA is impossible....and NKA is sometimes or even often used to detect for deep wolves. Which means its tough to find clues that a player is being wrongly town-read unless they lead a bad push or something.
Personally (if leading a wolf team) I would leave it each to their own as to how they would want to approach it as I tend to have that as a policy, though I probably would opt to either:
- try and be more aggressive about my own standing
- be heavily-minded about how my wolf-flip could spew another teammate as town
Do you think that the base 3 income that wolves get from token trading with each other is not that big of a factor this game?
5 tokens is a kill, so 3 tokens is roughly 0.6 KP. Do you think it's worth it for wolves to sacrifice that guaranteed 0.6 KP and let town decide to make everyone claim their tokens without putting up any resistance?
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Im Gonna Point This Out Now.. Im Not Advocating Against This Plan.. Nor Am I Against It.. I Just Question What Lags Motives Were For Bringing This Plan Into The Lime Light..
Just So Lag Cant Manipulate A Narrative Of.. So Light Is Against This Plan..
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Light_Yagami
Im Gonna Point This Out Now.. Im Not Advocating Against This Plan.. Nor Am I Against It.. I Just Question What Lags Motives Were For Bringing This Plan Into The Lime Light..
Just So Lag Cant Manipulate A Narrative Of.. So Light Is Against This Plan..
What kind of read is
"I think this player is scummy for strongly advocating for a plan that helps town mechanically"
Like at worst that's NAI
And I didn't "manipulate a narrative" of you being against the plan.
You did that yourself with #127
If you're in favor of it though, then great, glad to hear it.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lag
What kind of read is
"I think this player is scummy for strongly advocating for a plan that helps town mechanically"
Like at worst that's NAI
And I didn't "manipulate a narrative" of you being against the plan.
You did that yourself with #127
If you're in favor of it though, then great, glad to hear it.
Even Though It Helps Scum More Then Town.. Just Saiyan.. I Mean It Is A Plan.. My Only Plan Was To get Tokens To Ascend.. Beyond That Its What Ever.. Honestly If Scum Was Smart They Would Aim For The Same Thing Thus Doubling Their Vote For The Remainder Of The Game So.. They Can Just Lynch Their Way To Victory.. By Having More Votes Then Town.. Think About It If Each Wolf Were To Do This They Would Have A Solid 6 Votes Total.. 6 Votes Currently To Lynch Someone.. That Would Be The Long Game Play For Scum.. If You Ask Me..
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MartinGG99
IM HERE.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Light_Yagami
You Really Dont Give A Person Time To Respond Do You.. Im Not Even Pushing You All That Hard.. However, When I Refuse To Change My Stance On You... You Go Blown OMG Because I Presented Light Evidence Of Last Game Where Town Was The One To Come Up With The Idea.. He Refuses To Believe Im Town Because I Came Up With A Similar Idea This Game.. So Just Because You Said This Idea.. This Game Still Doesnt Make You Town.. You Could Be Trying To Use It As Town Reads In General.. Just Saiyan..
SB recently mentioned that he thinks this post is a meta scum-tell for light because light's being non-committal
so that's something to note
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MartinGG99
SB recently mentioned that he thinks this post is a meta scum-tell for light because light's being non-committal
so that's something to note
I Havent Changed My Vote..
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MartinGG99
Such a system can be advantageous to the wolves
All it means really is that they have to be town-read enough to not get chopped
I mean like all it does is change the rules of the game
but not necessarily what the wolves have to do
Like for example if you get strongly town-read and receive the tokens then there's like 0% chance you die because there's no factional night-kill so any NKA is impossible....and NKA is sometimes or even often used to detect for deep wolves. Which means its tough to find clues that a player is being wrongly town-read unless they lead a bad push or something.
Personally (if leading a wolf team) I would leave it each to their own as to how they would want to approach it as I tend to have that as a policy, though I probably would opt to either:
- try and be more aggressive about my own standing
- be heavily-minded about how my wolf-flip could spew another teammate as town
Okay, but that entirely depends on the wolf playstyle. It's very specific. Afaik, no one is doing any of these so far from all the posts I've read.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Light_Yagami
I Havent Changed My Vote..
I'd suggest we lynch later once we have concrete leads. In a v10 game where we have powerups to stop the progression of mafia, a d0 lynch isn't very worth.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
-
Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lag
Do you think that the base 3 income that wolves get from token trading with each other is not that big of a factor this game?
5 tokens is a kill, so 3 tokens is roughly 0.6 KP. Do you think it's worth it for wolves to sacrifice that guaranteed 0.6 KP and let town decide to make everyone claim their tokens without putting up any resistance?
I think so, personally.
The whole thing has upsides and downsides (such as using tokens to garner cred or groom pockets), and I think the upsides outweigh the downsides unless the wolves aren't confident that they can get town read at all.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WrathCyber
That is, if you're town.
I Know Ill Bleed Green Once Dead..
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
-unvote
I don't even think Martin is >rand wolf anymore
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WrathCyber
I'd suggest we lynch later once we have concrete leads. In a v10 game where we have powerups to stop the progression of mafia, a d0 lynch isn't very worth.
"Any leads?"
What "concrete leads" do you want to wait for? Mafia gain powerups more than twice as fast as town as well
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lag
"Any leads?"
What "concrete leads" do you want to wait for? Mafia gain powerups more than twice as fast as town as well
Thats Why I Said Town Should Give This Slot All The Tokens.. Better To Have One Powered Up Town.. Rather Then A Bunch Of Town That Cant Do Much Of Anything..
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lag
"Any leads?" What "concrete leads" do you want to wait for? Mafia gain powerups more than twice as fast as town as well
I think I didn't explain my thought process, but it's quite simple. I haven't seen Mizery, MM, Loldebite talk so far . Once they do, it'll be easier to have a "general" read on everyone, which is what I employ in the mod games. If they don't,
Well then, that speaks double and pinpoints easier matches for the maf.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WrathCyber
I think I didn't explain my thought process, but it's quite simple. I haven't seen Mizery, MM, Loldebite talk so far . Once they do, it'll be easier to have a "general" read on everyone, which is what I employ in the mod games. If they don't,
Well then, that speaks double and pinpoints easier matches for the maf.
MM has talked a fair bit, but I agree on the other two that I want to see a lot more from those slots.
But what if they don't talk? Voting sleep is definitely not the right idea.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Info so far, I will categorize someone as either actively solving, or inactive
Gikkle: has said a few words, inactive mostly
Mizery: has said a few words, inactive mostly
Martingg: actively solving
Lag: actively solving
Light: actively solving
Varc:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Varcron
Yeah this makes sense tbh
not enough activity so tag team it as a duo; seems reasonable enough.
Critiqued Martingg once, didn't post anything afterwards
Others not included: loldebite, MM due to lack of posts
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lag
MM has talked a fair bit, but I agree on the other two that I want to see a lot more from those slots.
But what if they don't talk? Voting sleep is definitely not the right idea.
Imo sleep > people actively contributing. We have 30+hrs so far right now, I never did say we HAVE to lynch SAS town, it is heavily preferred to do so.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lag
"Any leads?"
What "concrete leads" do you want to wait for? Mafia gain powerups more than twice as fast as town as well
BTW, I had to recheck the post because of this, thanks for letting me know. I believed corrupted souls started with even progression. But regardless, the sticky trap can be used to halt their advancements, no?
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WrathCyber
BTW, I had to recheck the post because of this, thanks for letting me know. I believed corrupted souls started with even progression. But regardless, the sticky trap can be used to halt their advancements, no?
For Two Nights Correct..
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
So I Just Got Done Talking To Pqrnhacks. He As Of Right Now Believes .. The Lynch Should Be Between..
These Four Martin, Mizery, Loldebite, Varcron.. He Views Lodebite As A Policy Lynch... So Lucky For Me I Guess Mizery In My Opening Remarks So....
Ill Vote There For Now...
-vote Mizery
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Dont Worry Lag I Still Believe You To Be A Big Brain Power Wolf..
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WrathCyber
BTW, I had to recheck the post because of this, thanks for letting me know. I believed corrupted souls started with even progression. But regardless, the sticky trap can be used to halt their advancements, no?
I was going to mention how sleeping is almost never the right play in both FM and the mod (unless someone does one of those silly day start setups in the mod, then you always -skip)
But then I thought about it more and... if we think token distribution is a town-favored mechanic, wolves have no factional kill, what's stopping us from just farming tokens?
Would like to hear peoples thoughts on this though, because of wolves getting double tokens, I'm not even convinced that the token mechanic favors town, we might just be playing a blackflag nightless variant that's more wolf-sided
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lag
I was going to mention how sleeping is almost never the right play in both FM and the mod (unless someone does one of those silly day start setups in the mod, then you always -skip)
But then I thought about it more and... if we think token distribution is a town-favored mechanic, wolves have no factional kill, what's stopping us from just farming tokens?
Would like to hear peoples thoughts on this though, because of wolves getting double tokens, I'm not even convinced that the token mechanic favors town, we might just be playing a blackflag nightless variant that's more wolf-sided
Wait Are We Bitcoin Mining?
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Light_Yagami
Wait Are We Bitcoin Mining?
Essentially, yes :D
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
@Lag
Were You Intentionally Lying About The Scum getting Double Tokens?
Because The Scum Only Get Double Tokens If The Come From Town Souls.. Not When They Are Traded Between Corrupted Souls..
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
They Get The Normal Amount When Its From Their Own Side.. That Kinda Changes The Dynamic Of All Of This..
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Also Once Ascended You Cant Give Or Receive Tokens..
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
-vote Mizery
Mizery is very solidly in her wolf meta
-
Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Light_Yagami
@
Lag
Were You Intentionally Lying About The Scum getting Double Tokens?
Because The Scum Only Get Double Tokens If The Come From Town Souls.. Not When They Are Traded Between Corrupted Souls..
Nice leading + framing question you got there.
Did you get help from your wolf teammates in crafting it?
Joking aside, I've repeatedly said that wolves get 3 tokens per day from each other, because there are 3 wolves and each wolf gives the other wolves one token.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lag
Nice leading + framing question you got there.
Did you get help from your wolf teammates in crafting it?
Joking aside, I've repeatedly said that wolves get 3 tokens per day from each other, because there are 3 wolves and each wolf gives the other wolves one token.
I Have No Wolf Team Mates..
So They Only Get One Token Each Not Three Total From Each Other Correct.. Meaning Wolf A Passes One Token To Wolf B Wolf B Passes One To Wolf C Wolf C Passes One To Wolf A.. Would Be A Max Of One Token Each.. The Most Any One Wolf Could Get In A Single Day Is 2 Tokens.. Like If Wolf A And Wolf B Gave Wolf C Their Tokens.. Wolf C Would Have At Most 2 Tokens.. Thats Just Between The Wolves.. Now The Wolves Do Get Double Tokens If Town Souls Give To The Wolves..
-
Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lag
-vote Mizery
Mizery is very solidly in her wolf meta
If You Dont Mind And It Wouldnt Be To Much Trouble.. Can You Describe Mizerys Wolf Meta.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lag
Do you think wolves would try to stop town from setting up a claim system so that they can give each other tokens without outting their teammates?
I'll answer this question even though it was directed towards Martin
Yes, I think most wolves would be actively against a claim system because if one of them happens to get caught and they have their love triangle going on then it'll be pretty easy to distinguish who are the other wolves.
If they lie with the claim circle too it will be fairly obvious as to who the scum COULD be.
-
Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lag
Nice leading + framing question you got there.
Did you get help from your wolf teammates in crafting it?
Joking aside, I've repeatedly said that wolves get 3 tokens per day from each other, because there are 3 wolves and each wolf gives the other wolves one token.
I think in this setup if wolves do that it would be heavily reliant on them not being scumread/lynched as to not out the rest of their team. Very high risk play by the wolves in that case.
-
Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Light_Yagami
Also Lag Something Else Caught My Eye.. Based On You Defending Me Earlier In The Day.. Against Martian And Such When They Had Their Votes On Me.. Made Me Scum Read You More Then Them Having Votes On Me.. On Not Afraid To Be Voted.. Because I Know What Ill Flip And The Info You Get From That Would Allow You To See Who Was Pushing/Advocating For My Lynch.. I Will Flip Town BTW.. Either I Still Think You Are Indeed Scum..
I have missed something except from your past posts I don't believe you've explained why you think Lag is scum?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light_Yagami
Because , You Are Scum From My POV.. Granted The Evidence You Provided Did Correct My Original Thought Of It Having Been Mike That Had Done It.. I Still Wouldnt Put It Past A Wolf To Also Bring That To The Table.. Because Even If It Does Help Town Minimally.. I Believe That Action Helps The Wolves More.. Seeing As How They Would Know Who Has How Many Tokens As Well.. Giving Them The Ability To Kill The Players With A Higher Token Count... First..
If this is your reason for scumreading I don't really see how posting a lot makes Lag a wolf as he does that no matter what game he is in. I've been both scumbuddies with lag before (in the six man simple mafia game) and town (in every other game in existence), his posts currently are more NAI than anything right now maybe even a little bit towny.
-
Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
I did just finish discussing the Ozy and there's something we talked about that he'd like to know (and me kind of, but not as much)
@MartinGG99
why wouldn't you be able to talk to SB16 until night with the 48 hr day timer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall
You two are building scumreads out of theory disagreements, which is probably not scummy but also probably wrong. Also Martin, he's not "not allowing for other perspectives", he's stating his point, which is a good one imo. I just can't see how not saying who you're giving a token to is pro-town in any way. What we shouldn't state is our glue/health actions for obvious reasons, and probably all of the actions to avoid getting glued by scum.
Took at this as well and this looks like a strawman argument against Martin, haven't decided whether that points at a Lag/MM team yet but it could be. We'll see later as more posts come in.
-
Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Light_Yagami
If You Dont Mind And It Wouldnt Be To Much Trouble.. Can You Describe Mizerys Wolf Meta.
Apathetic play, pretty much.
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Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Varcron
I'll answer this question even though it was directed towards Martin
Yes, I think most wolves would be actively against a claim system because if one of them happens to get caught and they have their love triangle going on then it'll be pretty easy to distinguish who are the other wolves.
If they lie with the claim circle too it will be fairly obvious as to who the scum COULD be.
Are you still against a claim system then?
Also, kind of curious where your mind is at with respect to town/wolf reads. Day 1 has been a lot of mech spec which, while important in experimental games like this, is not enough. Still need standard town/wolfhunting