Printable View
I honestly don't how how this guy isn't banned yet after throwing about 500 games.
This time he was Mayor, never said anything, just kept voting default names and when he got put up he just talked some bs but didn't reveal and got lynched.
Cost Town the win.
Attachment 27977
ID Verification:
ZZorange: 1-S2-1-2701690 Correct
Summary
ZZorange names himself Honest Manridius Maximus and roles Mayor in slot 6.
D1: "Savior of the town here."
D2: gets an afk notification. comes back and sets lw "Honest man the honest man"
D3: he looks at the log a little bit then randomly votes a default name, 7.
Several players vote zzorange for his random vote but he is not trialed. He adds to his lw "Damn evils yall"
D4: he again just silently votes 7. He adds to his lw "Just chillin having a good time."
N4: he adds to his lw "Canvassing the town with 7 votes, have enough information now."
7 quits the game
adds to his lw "Top Suspicious people : 1,3,12"
D5: now he silently votes another default name, 3. Town is in a 3 v 3 situation (healable mayor, doc, confirmed vet vs. judge who already courted + 2 triads). The game is easily won if ZZorange just reveals but he is too busy just chilling and leaves his vote on 3, the default name who is a doctor. Finally with 2 seconds left in the day the other 2 town get desperate and vote zzorange up.
Defense: "wowzers
well town you just fumbled it
the plan was nearly flawless but now we're here
end of the line
I'm town btw
My role is...
*looks at Camera*"
He then reveals as mayor right as the trial timer ends. He is lynched 3-2. It was technically not possible for town to inno here so this trolling is irrelevant. The game was over unless an evil was trialed during the day.
Last words: "Microwave Extended
Serenade me out trumpets.
Let 11 bask in his failure.
And remember the lesson."
He pms 11 "The Honest Man never lies."
Triad goes on to win the game.
Player Offenses
ZZorange: gamethrowing/griefing
Previous Offenses
Griefing (May 2021, Permaban - Appealed)
BL X4 (feb 2021)
Intentional Gamethrowing
BLx2 appealed to a WLx3 (late January 2021)
Intentional Gamethrowing/Griefing
Gamethrowing (2011, KickVote),
Skyping (2013, 2xKickVote),
Skyping/Cheating (2013, 4xKickVote),
Cheating/Skyping/Gamethrow/Griefing (2013, BLx2),
Skyping (2013, Permabanned),
Cheating/Skyping(2013, Already Permabanned)
+
pending approved reactionary gamethrow https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...hlight=2701690
pending approved griefing https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...hlight=2701690
Recommended Action
Permaban.
Additional Notes
The not claiming on the stand was irrelevant since at that point the game was over. However he got up on the stand in the first place because he was trolling, refusing to pm the confirmed vet and just voting default names again who were both town. The game was totally winnable but only if ZZ revealed as mayor for the extra vote power and lynched an evil, but instead he decided to be "just chilling" and just sat there with his single vote on the default name player.
And before we get some appeal about how you are magically confirmed town because of your blacklisting and it was the wrong decision for them to trial you, I will state that it's not relevant. The only way for town to do anything in that 3 v 3 situation was for the mayor to reveal so that town has enough votes to trial an evil.
This person has been permabanned twice already and has 2 more approved reports on them. I think they were given enough chances to stop ruining the game for others.
Thanks for your report!
1-S2-1-2701690 : Permaban
Thank god. this this dude should have been banned a loooooong time ago.
He was?Quote:
Originally Posted by StarGunner
Permbanned in 2013 and permbanned in 2021.
Not everyone achieves 3 permbans, that's an accomplishment! :>
:weed:
Yall just banned my worst FM scum partner of all time... W t f
Disclaimer this isn't an appeal.
AAmirus I knew the day I was banned for gamethrowing on a game I won my days were numbered. I knew it, I appealed for some more time and got it and was grateful but I knew in the end the mods would get their pound of flesh. They were determined and I knew it was only a matter of time before the goalposts were shifted and something else was used as reasoning. I'm not a moron. The hate boners run deep and guilty or innocent the mob would get their head. So I enjoyed the time I had left, the last games of Mafia I would get to play before getting Altech'd or what not. When amount of evidence is more important than validity, it's only a matter of time, and my haters can produce amounts in spades.
As for this game itself. Did it break any of the rules of my appeal? Let's check. Claimed role on stand. Yep claimed it. Lynched defaults, nope. Voted them to see get some voting analysis but none ever got to trial and it provided some information that was lacking. Target anyone due to past mistakes not in this game.
As for the game itself the Veteran was outed rather early and took on the role of Town Gov which was good for me as I was eatin my dinner. I wasn't paying attention to the game for the first few days so the Vet likely had more information than I did and Snecko isn't a terrible player so i thought the game was in good hands. I didn't PM the Veteran but didn't really see a need to unless pressed, no use the vet dying and outing me in his last will. Like I said I hadn't been paying as much attention to the game so revealing earlier in the game it's anybody's guess if I would have lynched correctly or not.
Revealing as Mayor in every game wasn't part of the appeal nor would I expect it was. I mean there's even an achievement in the game for winning as Mayor without revealing, so not revealing as Mayor frankly isn't a crime you can punish here.
This doesn't even help my case here but for full Honesty this is the day that I was lynched in question. https://prnt.sc/14nhwth I guess AAmirus can't count? Regardless it was winnable and I did reveal but sadly 11,3 guiltied, way she goes sometimes. Also there was only one protective in this save, which means in AAmiruses hypothetical 3v3 scenario, revealing as Mayor isn't actually always the best play. As revealing in a 3 v 3 scenario 3 town v 3 evils requires a bodyguard or doctor to win. And even then the outcome is far from confirmed. As if the Mayor doesn't hit both triads in a row, the evils can still win.
So the real question essentially boils down to this. Was there a confirmed Doctor in the game? If the doctors presence was confirmed with a heal, then not revealing is throwing as a confirmed Doctor leads to revealing being the better statistical move. If there is no Doctor, both options are viable since there is the element of the unknown. It's essentially a coinflip, if my town protective is what I want, then revealing is good, but if its Escort or something, revealing is a very risky strat and acting Judge and hoping for mediocre Mafia could be better.
In the game in question, the answer to that is no. There was never an attack healed and while Clue did claim Doctor to Snecko, this was just that a claim. A claim I wasn't even aware of. Now in perfect 20/20 hindsight could the game have been won with a Mayor reveal? Possibly there's no real way to know who I would decide to lynch in that scenario. I could just have easily have made the wrong calls. The people I was most suspicious of during the game based on voting analysis, from when I voted 7. As stated was 1,3 and 12. Two of which turned out to be evils. However I could have revealed and lynched 3 as I also believed them to be evil, and lost all the same. Keep in mind we had already lost a lot of town investigative roles, so scum reading was employed.
The thing that still grinds my gears out of it all though AAmirus, is that you can watch a replay as is your job and still make an elementary counting mistake, as if you were looking to give me ammunition.
Anyway as previously stated this post ain't an appeal, there's nothing that can save me from the bias it was only a matter of time. Just doing these points to point out the obvious and provide an unspun story in the thread instead of the preferred narrative.
Where my boy Sheriff at, at least that guy can watch a replay successfully LOL.
Except that you literally had no chance of winning in a 3 v 3 scenario unless you did reveal. You cannot win 3v3 against triad unless you have a jailor, mayor, or vet with alerts (if you're lucky). Not even a bodyguard or vig will save you because it would just bring it to 2v2 the next day. It did not matter what anybody else was. You knew there were 3 evils left, and you knew that you needed to reveal BEFORE you got voted up (as triad could not be voted up unless they decided to game throw as well). No matter how much you try to spin this, this is game throwing dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZorange
First of all your link does not work. Secondly, having a bodyguard in the scenario you presented is actually useless in a 3v3 because town would still lose (as explained before, if done correctly bodyguard sacs himself making a 3v3 an also unwinnable 2v2). I know you say things likeQuote:
Originally Posted by ZZorange
And given your extensive experience and familiarity with the game leads me to only two logical conclusions:Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZorange
A) You're being willfully ignorant and creating an excuse to spin your game throwing.
or B) You're a moron, and you clearly don't realize it.
It's one or the other.
Again... false. If doctor reveals, how does that benefit town? How are you to believe his claim? Mayor is the only person that can be confirmed. You're not somebody that believes anybody's claim, yet infer that everyone should already know yours or that you should always be believed because "you're honest man". If doctor reveals, you'd still have to reveal in this scenario. ALSO, if you revealed as mayor before being voted up, doctor would have revealed to you. In the scenario that you don't reveal, then doc reveals, triad would just kill doctor and now you're stuck in a 2v3 now. Even if you vote triad more quickly (after you reveal and get your votes) you'd still lose the next day when triad kills you next. Unwinnable. There is no scenario where you win from not revealing unless there was another active vet or jailor with executes.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZorange
You could have still attempted to win. By not revealing you went from having a chance to win (about 60% chance to win as there is 3 evils out of 5 available options to vote) to ZERO percent chance as you cannot obtain a majority of votes in a 3v3 without mayor. Again, this goes back to what I said earlier. Are you option A) or option B)? Pick one. If you want to get unbanned, you have to admit option B). (if admins even would consider it, which I doubt they would).Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZorange
This post is filled with bias. What are you referring to about Aamirus not counting correctly as I cannot see your screenshot?Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZorange
Also your recount of the story is nothing but bias and spin, as is usual.
You were a decent heel in mafia, as it was fun to kill you and get you lynched. There was a nice rivalry. I'll admit the games with you have been better lately, but clearly not so when I was not in the game. Perhaps you were worried I would report you in games I was in with you? Either way, know that it wasn't me that took you down. Not this time, not the last time either. But I still think it's a shame since you did this to yourself.
Just to help you out Altech in this hypothetical it's 3 town 2 triad 1 judge. In that scenario revealing is beneficial if there is a Doctor but can be losing if there is not. As revealing without a doctor guarantees the loss. However not revealing has a small chance to win against incompetent Judge/Triad where someone Triad kills Judge.
AAMirus is trying to pitch the story as a guarenteed win for Town had I revealed but the win was far from guarenteed. It was a one prot save and the existence of a doctor was not confirmed.
Also as I previously said one of the people I found most suspicious from my vote canvassing was the Doctor so even had I revealed there was a chance I would have voted them up lynched then and lost anyway. It wasn't a guaranteed win.
So 11 and 3 guiltying me on the stand after the Mayor reveal was what lost the game.
To make this extra clear I'll run down all the potential 3 v 3 scenarios for you given 3 town 2 triad 1 judge.
#1) Mayor reveal with Doctor
Mayor reveals and has a total of 4 lynch targets with 11 being confirmed vet.
A) Lynch Judge. 2 Triads remain
Triad kill choice A1) Mayor -> Town Win
A2) -> Doctor Game Proceeds
Lynch on obvious Triad, Triad kill Mayor -> Game Win Triad.
A3 -> Vet game potentially proceeds with 1 less triad or 2 v 2.
50/50 chance of win depending on Triad kill choice. With no prot in graveyard, may be inclined to choose the non gov since mayor v triad is a win. So likely still Triad favoured.
B) Lynch a Triad.
B1) Mayor attack -> Another town autowin.
B2) Doctor attack -> Another Triad autowin unless extreme stupidity.
B3) Judge attack -> possible but extremely unlikely with judges ability to reveal.
B4) Vet attack -> Another 2v2 with 1 doc, 1 judge, 1 Triad.
Even with Triad lynch here the game is not solved, Judge still has potential to claim prot and force a coinflip.
Judge lynch leads to same 50/50 weighted towards Triad.
C) Lynch Doc
Town autoloss all scenarios.
D) Lynch vet
This is what actual gamethrowing looks like.
#2 Mayor Reveals no bodyguard/Doctor exists.
A) Lynch Judge
All kill choices save Vet with Alert, autowin.
B) Kill Triad.
Same as above.
C) Kill Other Town Role
Autoloss.
As Altech stated revealing without a prot is an autoloss in 99% of games.
#3 Not revealing with a doctor bodyguard present.
Town can not vote up Triad, without Judges help however this also means Triad and evils cannot vote up a townie without Mayor or Veterans help, this can be used to determine a Non-Triad alignment player and out the remaining two Triad.
3A) Triad kill choice at night. Judge can reveal potentially, but could also not. Triad could also be wildly incompetent or potentially convinced of someone else being judge through daytime actions.
Vet) Autoloss unless alert.
Doc) Autoloss
Mayor) Autoloss
Judge ) Extremely likely town win.
This obviously loses more than revealing with Doc does, but is only a game throwing play in games where doctors are confirmed.
#4) Mayor doesn't reveal in a game without bodyguard/doctor.
Same win scenarios as #3.
Now the question in this hypothetical 3v3 one has to ask, is it gamethrowing to not reveal in this scenario? The answer really, is only if you know for a fact a Doctor exists, because even though it's extremely unlikely, Not revealing if a doctor/bodyguard didn't roll, is superior to revealing if they didn't. Meaning as Mayor you have to ask yourself, do you want to play the game and hope a Doctor exists, or do you want to take the chances that the Triad is mentally incompetent. There's no clear cut choice here, since each choice has the edge in a different scenario.
The game was lost because 11 and 3 guiltied a revealed Mayor simple as that.
Also by the same logic
"And before we get some appeal about how you are magically confirmed town because of your blacklisting and it was the wrong decision for them to trial you, I will state that it's not relevant. The only way for town to do anything in that 3 v 3 situation was for the mayor to reveal so that town has enough votes to trial an evil."
AAmirus is acting as if the presence of a Doctor was confirmed in the same manner that I would say I was confirmed town. His judgement of this hypothetical 3v3 scenario is flawed because he wants to see heads roll.
Gamethrowing happens when people are trying to lose the game, and had not revealing been a guarenteed losing move compared to revealing there's grounds for a gamethrowing case, but the gun goes off half cocked again as non of these factors were confirmed, and a town win was not set in stone.
I also reported this guys but it was ignored because he tries to throw every game in a way he can have plausible deniability and then he plays the victim as demonstrated in his cry to mommy reply. Good riddance!
ZZ you missed the entire point of aamirus's analysis.
Its not that you had a confirmed win by revealing. Its that you NOT revealing resulted 100% in a loss. Town needed your reveal vote for vote majority and you did not reveal.
You stopped playing for the win by not revealing.
It doesn't even seem like you want to play orange. You need to rethink what you're doing. Look at all the effort you put into your comments on this thread, all for what? So you can sit around and do near to fuck all on a sc2 mod? Imagine playing call of duty and one of your teammates is just tea bagging a barrel, or you're on a racing game and some dope just does donuts.
If you need to talk to someone I'm semi-free
? I just broke down how not revealing isn't always not playing for the win? What part of the breakdown were you confused about?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16
I know you Forum mafia types don't play the mod as much and aren't as clear on the mechanics and specifics of certain end games. But if you have any questions I can answer lemme know.
I just play the game Jack. I have some haters who work tirelessly to get me banned because they're bad people. It is what it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperJack
Meh I think more that you exist in the game, it once brought you joy but that is long gone, but you still feel like it should so you still partake. I hope you find something you love, as you have a lot of energy and ability you could give to itQuote:
Originally Posted by ZZorange
h +'1Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperJack
The FM projection is real in this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperJack
If I didn't enjoy the game I wouldn't have put in so much effort to try and keep being allowed to play it, but sadly that's the thing with overturned bans, the people who initially got you them aren't going to stop trying to keep them. It just gives the Altechs and Invictuses a goal keep working tirelessly to get you banned, and eventually one of the reports they spam is going to get taken seriously, and the mods who also want to see this happen are going to help. For instance take the approved report from Ozywho where he failor'd. I have never in my long years of playing this game seen an approved report where someone reported a townie that they failored, I've never seen it. But this one was approved why you may ask? Because it's not the contents of the report that matter, it's just the fact that it existed. If it it's exists you can use the "well look there's so many reports here that this is obviously the right move" It's not subtle I can see the tactics being employed. I haven't done anything that Altech and Invictus haven't done the only difference is that they spam the report button and that I play the game the same way with the same name so it's easy 2 target me, again not a unique thing to do.
As soon as I got the appeal before I had even played a game they were telling me they were going to get me banned. That's just the truth of the matter.
I had to argue a case just to get a charge changed from Game throwing which it wasn't, to something that actually made sense. Why? Because why put effort into a writing a mod report on something you don't want to or think you'll need to appeal. It's very easy to tell the difference from a report made from a clear rule infraction observed in game and one made on ZZorange because it's ZZorange and we gotta get that guy banned.
But anyway the mods and the Altechs of the world finally got what they wanted so congrats, you've prevented a guy from playing a game that he liked, really big accomplishment there.
lol
I mean in marriages people put an obscene amount of effort to stay with someone they no longer love.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZorange
tbh u are fucking cancer zzfaggot, go home and die already you lifeless cocksucker.