S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

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Originally Posted by Frinckles

I'm good where I'm at tbh

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are u not going to move if day ends in no lynch then too?

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Isn't the only role that FrostByte could be is CA at this point? In that case a potential Martin/Helz/FrostByte seems less likely

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I only saw him visit one person, if he is triad he can only be triad random

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Originally Posted by Frinckles

feels like the right thing to do. Who is the other candidate

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love it when town doesn't pay attention to the game and doesn't even try to read it anymore thanks x

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Originally Posted by naz

If anyone is CA* ...they MUST have used their action already, no?

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Not necessarily. They could have been stopped by locks, or maybe Helz WANTED to act last night but couldn't.

(speaking of which, @Helz get in here and sheep me)

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Originally Posted by naz

are u not going to move if day ends in no lynch then too?

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This is plurality yeet.

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Originally Posted by Helz

Sadly I am not the Butler.

I picked you because I randomly picked a number, then counted down the names and yours was the name that lined up with the number. I generally like to use that sort of method when choosing a name to point at as a fake peek because it avoids any possible WIFOM.

Although- Just for the WIFOM; You are my strongest town read right now because you are the most beautiful player on the site : P

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one thing that bothers me about Helz is he didn't know how Butler works in this post? which idk if is on purpose bc hes claiming not-butler or he isn't butler

also what if we are in a world with no butlers . . .
ugh I don't even want to think about that
if unknown and helz are both scum they deserve to win lol

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Originally Posted by naz

one thing that bothers me about Helz is he didn't know how Butler works in this post? which idk if is on purpose bc hes claiming not-butler or he isn't butler

also what if we are in a world with no butlers . . .
ugh I don't even want to think about that
if unknown and helz are both scum they deserve to win lol

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I don't see him at all misunderstanding Butler here...

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Originally Posted by MattZed

I don't see him at all misunderstanding Butler here...

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Butler doesn't get to choose the peek....its random

u asked him why he picked u and he said i counted a random number up the list
he didn't get a choice lol

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Originally Posted by naz

u asked him why he picked u and he said i counted a random number up the list
he didn't get a choice lol

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Exactly. I asked him how he chose to "peek" me if he wasn't actually Butler.

ohhh lol nvm
ok well no one else is here & im in bed so I'm going to sleep now

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Originally Posted by naz

ohhh lol nvm
ok well no one else is here & im in bed so I'm going to sleep now

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Good night.

Dang it came back so late.

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Originally Posted by MattZed

@Auwt , can we get a few extra hours on day?

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The website was apparently offline for 5 hours.
However I could only add 3 hours max, otherwise it would have to be postponed for quite longer.
I will add those 3 hours on the D4 countdown.

My timing is going to be a bit rough for EOD because of my current sleep schedule and the fact that I'll be out getting a new phone. I'll hopefully we around towards the end of the day.

If naz is telling the truth about who FrostByte visited and that she would be able to see both of CA's targets (which I can't remember at this second if this has been confirmed but it seems odd to be able to get two targets) then it could mean that Renegade and Helz are triad with Martin. The one thing that I would be confused about is that if naz knew she could see someone visiting two people, then why would she have not checked Martin a lot earlier?

I'm pretty sure these thoughts will be answered one way or another tomorrow. I am slightly suspicious of FrostByte holding back information on being roleblocked twice, as revealing that information wouldn't make him any more suspicious because the role-blocker would have known he was blocked and could have chosen to reveal that at any point. Would be worth considering that he was hoping the Role-blocker was triad and wanted to see what they would do with their 2nd night action (if he knew he wasn't DH then being blocked would likely lead him to believe that it's a town blocker and not triad.

Despite how much Renegade and Martin have seemingly town-read each other, I still don't feel like he's triad. Wouldn't a triad locksmith be more concerned about how their night actions look and not target the same person 3 times, vs a town trying to protect a basically confirmed town player. I feel like we're dealing with a lot of uncertainties and I kinda wish the game was as solved as I felt it was at the start of day.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Despite how much Renegade and Martin have seemingly town-read each other, I still don't feel like he's triad. Wouldn't a triad locksmith be more concerned about how their night actions look and not target the same person 3 times, vs a town trying to protect a basically confirmed town player. I feel like we're dealing with a lot of uncertainties and I kinda wish the game was as solved as I felt it was at the start of day.

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Especially the first night dealing with the differences between how Martin looked at his night actions vs how Renegade looked at his. One of them did it based on the belief that they were protecting a town-read, which can be seen as Renegade does not seem to be suspicious of Frinckles at all on day 1.

Martin on the other hand claims to bus Frinckles he was objectively scummy to most people. It's the difference in mindset in this situation that makes me want to believe Renegade is town here.

I am off to sleep now.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

The one thing that I would be confused about is that if naz knew she could see someone visiting two people, then why would she have not checked Martin a lot earlier?

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solving baker + fb were more of a priority to me
why would i have checked martin, who you unquestioningly townread since day 1 for his "genuine" counterclaim, when there were other slots to solve as well?
checking martin before today was seemingly useless since if he is operator, it wouldn't have made a difference

im hoping yzb would have said something if his feedback was swapped before he died so i think martin is not an operator. if he is triad he must be exactly dragonhead

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Originally Posted by naz

one thing that bothers me about Helz is he didn't know how Butler works in this post? which idk if is on purpose bc hes claiming not-butler or he isn't butler

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Thats probably one of my favorite posts this game. It was a super cheeky way to say "Im totally not the Butler but I totally am" when you look at it in context. I feel like I couldn't have played that any better.

Reading through some stuffs now.

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Originally Posted by naz

are u not going to move if day ends in no lynch then too?

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Plurality is a thing.

@Renegade
How do you feel about Unknown v Martian v No lynch?

I can only wait so patiently to see votes on Martin.

I wish they killed frinckles instead of @bakermir
At least baker would actually be trying, instead of frinckles who gave up day 1 for falling to stupid Mag's bullshit

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Originally Posted by naz

I wish they killed frinckles instead of @bakermir
At least baker would actually be trying, instead of frinckles who gave up day 1 for falling to stupid Mag's bullshit

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Thats just cold.

You dont have to trash him so much. If you really want to spoon just ask the guy. I get that he is a beautiful snugly human being with intellectual depth but theres totally more appropriate ways to get his attention.

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Originally Posted by Helz

@Renegade
How do you feel about Unknown v Martian v No lynch?

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@FrostByte too

@Helz , if you're trying to not end day early at least unvote Unknown so no one sneaks in a plurality tie.

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Originally Posted by MattZed

@Helz , if you're trying to not end day early at least unvote Unknown so no one sneaks in a plurality tie.

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I want to watch

I really like the gamestate right now. Its like a nebulous tangle that could be solved if the right thread gets tugged on.

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Originally Posted by Helz

@Renegade
How do you feel about Unknown v Martian v No lynch?

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No lynch just buys the triad more time to use their abilities. IDK.

Marino I've been townreading most of this whole game. What a ballsy move to claim BD as DH. It certainly is possible if he tried to kill Frinckles N1 and that is how he found I was locked.

I've been townreading Unkown but mechanically he seems to be the highest probability DH. So unless I can be swayed, I'll probably be voting for him.

4 and a half hours left

Unknown1234 (2 [L-3]):
Helz, MartinGG99
MartinGG99 (3 [L-2]):
Unknown1234, MattZed, naz
FrostByte (1 [L-4]):
Frinckles

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I think the biggest reason that shows why you're triad is because you deliberately didn't say anything until you thought people weren't going to believe you.

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Actually, no. It just ticked me off that Mattzed was writing it off as a "WOOPS" if he was wrong about me.

Like as if I wasn't really high in his town-reads prior to this day phase.

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

Actually, no. It just ticked me off that Mattzed was writing it off as a "WOOPS" if he was wrong about me.

Like as if I wasn't really high in his town-reads prior to this day phase.

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I mean honestly

you're not bothered by him writing "WOOPS" there because I may have done the same thing in the past:

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

No one knows for 100% sure who their allies are afaik

And if he's switcher

there isn't really anyone to blame or scum-read for hammering imo

when I've been claiming that I'm busdriver and that the Hardclaim-switcher-turned-busdriver-hardclaim likely doesn't exist at all and is 100% scum (namely switcher).

If he SOMEHOW flips busdriver then obviously I'm going to be the one who will have a lot of justified heat on their plate.

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I don't really know if the orange colours went in because I might have mixed colours in, but given how strongly he pushed against Oberon's Bus Driver claim, in the same post he talks about seeing oberon as "100% scum" and then immediately after comments about potentially being under fire if he somehow flipped Bus Driver. This reads to me that he believed that Oberon was the confirmed Bus Driver.

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Probably because you have those Dragon HeadTM sunglasses.

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

I mean honestly

you're not bothered by him writing "WOOPS" there because I may have done the same thing in the past:



Probably because you have those Dragon HeadTM sunglasses.

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Kinda equivalent if you ask me:

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Originally Posted by MattZed

We're yeeting Martin

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Originally Posted by MattZed

How to interpret the flip:

1. If Martin flips DH, we're in a good 5v2. Hard to say who's who, but I would VERY strongly suspect Helz is CA in this case. (@naz, keep this in mind if you're town)
2. If Martin flips CA, then actually Unknown is the DH and we just had the craziest Scum vs. Scum I'm seen in a while
3. If Martin flips any other triad role, Unknown is the DH, Helz is the CA, and we've basically won.
4. If Martin flips Bus Driver, WHOOPS. Unknown is DH and Helz is probably CA.
5. If Martin was bound to another triad, yay?
6. If Martin was bound to another town, idk. Make night actions carefully.


@FrostByte , I hope it goes without saying that you should be in bodyguard mode tonight if you're town.

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Obviously, due to the mechanical situation you gotta scumpaint me however you want

but trying to use such methods of scum tells or scum signs when other towns have done the same thing is a bit disingenuous imo

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

You were way too concerned with people seeing your claim as true, played very passively and constantly 'accepting other peoples reads' as your own. In hindsight we probably should have realized you were triad a long time ago had it not been for your claim.

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I disagree that's a scum tell of me btw


In my last scum game (Ignoring the Demon game that Oberon hosted where I wasn't putting my effort into it)

Was my Spirits II game. I held off on claiming any sort of role untill the very end of the game. Granted, those were different circumstance but I think some of it has some value in interperting my alignment for this game.

As others have said, I very quickly started to breadcrumb my role with a question to the host and the quite righfully counter-claimed Oberon who was clearly scummy to me and had hard-claimed my role (which the setup suggested to me there was only one of).

I would've pressed on him harder sooner, but if I recall I wasn't present in the game (as I had left temporarily) until I got back where he claimed both Switcher and Busdriver

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

I disagree that's a scum tell of me btw


In my last scum game (Ignoring the Demon game that Oberon hosted where I wasn't putting my effort into it)

Was my Spirits II game. I held off on claiming any sort of role untill the very end of the game. Granted, those were different circumstance but I think some of it has some value in interperting my alignment for this game.

As others have said, I very quickly started to breadcrumb my role with a question to the host and the quite righfully counter-claimed Oberon who was clearly scummy to me and had hard-claimed my role (which the setup suggested to me there was only one of).

I would've pressed on him harder sooner, but if I recall I wasn't present in the game (as I had left temporarily) until I got back where he claimed both Switcher and Busdriver

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In fact, my agenda tends to be much more scum-hunty rather than town-hunty. If you look at that Wolf Spirits II game I didn't do much to try and secure people who I thought were town

Unlike this game

Where I actively worked against (what I thought were) Helz v Frostbyte and Helz v Bakermir TvT's.

I reconsidered Frostbyte's alignment upon the mechanical solving or information we suddenly got on D3 (that and well you killed Bakermir for who knows what reason but possibly to shade me)

Also

I believe you mentioned at one point that my reason for killing Bakermir was because I strongly believed he was town

If that's the case, why did I not kill you on N2 instead of Bakermir?

Sure, Helz could be triad if I am triad.

But with my posts on D2 (see spoiler) I could've quite possibly killed a !Town Unkown (WHO I DIDN'T KNOW WAS BUTLER)

To push on Yzb25 and get him lynched/eliminated since you wouldn't be protecting him

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

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Originally Posted by Helz

Sure.

The way I am looking at it Bakermir, Frostbyte, Renegade, Naz, Unknown, and Yzb25 are mechanically the PoE. Naz can wait for a day because a Triad Random kill mechanically confirms her and I set aside Unknown and Yzb25 for being widly town read.

I suppose you could interchange one of those first three with Yzb25 or Unknown for D4 but I suspect the role claims will do that anyways. If no scum claims a citizen slot 2 names will be removed from those and there will only be 3 names left in the PoE mechanically speaking (and accounting for giving Naz a 1 day pass)

Let me know if I am missing something but I think my logic there is pretty sound.

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I think you're close to the right track tbh.

But I will 100% promise you that at least

Frostbyte
&
Bakermir

are town.

I'm like 85% sure that Renegade is town, but we may discuss that on D3 or D4.

Also I'm personally a fan of Unkown as town but I don't think this game has debated his alignment much or if at all so I wouldn't be opposed to it in the future.

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

Btw when you get a sober chance Frinckles, I would like to hear your thoughts on Yzb24, given your reads list earlier:

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Originally Posted by Frinckles

like this lol

Unknown1234
MattZed
MartinGG99
yzb25
Naz
Renegade

Helz
Bakermir
FrostByte
Deathworlds
Dark Magician

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Why are they your #4 town read?

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

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Originally Posted by Frinckles

Tone towny, priorities terrible.

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I suppose that's a good (maybe even best) way to put it.

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Both of these suggest Yzb25 would be open for a miselimination push

Additionally, Unknown1234 here is the TOP TOWN READ!!!

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

Additionally, Unknown1234 here is the TOP TOWN READ!!!

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Of a confirmed townie**

How long we got

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

Also

I believe you mentioned at one point that my reason for killing Bakermir was because I strongly believed he was town

If that's the case, why did I not kill you on N2 instead of Bakermir?

Sure, Helz could be triad if I am triad.

But with my posts on D2 (see spoiler) I could've quite possibly killed a !Town Unkown (WHO I DIDN'T KNOW WAS BUTLER)

To push on Yzb25 and get him lynched/eliminated since you wouldn't be protecting him









Both of these suggest Yzb25 would be open for a miselimination push

Additionally, Unknown1234 here is the TOP TOWN READ!!!

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@MattZed

I know you're already decided but if you could, please consider this.

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Originally Posted by Frinckles

How long we got

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3 and 1/2 hours...3 hours were added I believe

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Originally Posted by Frinckles

How long we got

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Three and a half hours.

I am waiting to hear from Frostbyte before I say a bit.

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Originally Posted by MattZed

None of these look good for you. This isn't a read based on mechanics. Mechanics narrowed it down to you vs Unknown. I'm voting you because you look scummier.

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This is what I like to see. Pure mechanical solve isn't gonna work and I've been waiting for people to use some social scum hunting.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I'm pretty sure these thoughts will be answered one way or another tomorrow. I am slightly suspicious of FrostByte holding back information on being roleblocked twice, as revealing that information wouldn't make him any more suspicious because the role-blocker would have known he was blocked and could have chosen to reveal that at any point. Would be worth considering that he was hoping the Role-blocker was triad and wanted to see what they would do with their 2nd night action (if he knew he wasn't DH then being blocked would likely lead him to believe that it's a town blocker and not triad.

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I was 90% sure it was a townie RBing me and I wasn't about to out a TPR. This plays into not narrowing down the game further for scum to be able to solve it. Not outing a TPR kept the slots a little more ambiguous and I didn't want to push yzb into a claim. Plus I wasn't gonna give up shit due to the stupid amount of pressure people were trying to put on me to claim. Part of that is because I'm stubborn af and part of it is because it looked like scum was pressuring me. I'm honestly still not a fan of MattZed being town but I'm gonna accept it. Helz, on the other hand, is still scummy to me for pushing so hard for a mass claim.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Despite how much Renegade and Martin have seemingly town-read each other, I still don't feel like he's triad. Wouldn't a triad locksmith be more concerned about how their night actions look and not target the same person 3 times, vs a town trying to protect a basically confirmed town player. I feel like we're dealing with a lot of uncertainties and I kinda wish the game was as solved as I felt it was at the start of day.

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I agree. I'm protective TPR and I've done roughly the same thing in keeping Frinckles protected. I need to ISO him more but Renegade seems town to me. And solved game means no fun. It's not about the destination, it's about the fun of scum hunting while everything is ambiguous and clouded in smoke and mirrors. I'm loving this game so far.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

My timing is going to be a bit rough for EOD because of my current sleep schedule and the fact that I'll be out getting a new phone. I'll hopefully we around towards the end of the day.

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Glad you're getting a new phone! I just got a new one not long ago and I didn't realize how much more difficult life was because of the shitty phone.

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Originally Posted by Helz

Three and a half hours.

I am waiting to hear from Frostbyte before I say a bit.

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one sec

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

I disagree that's a scum tell of me btw


In my last scum game (Ignoring the Demon game that Oberon hosted where I wasn't putting my effort into it)

Was my Spirits II game. I held off on claiming any sort of role untill the very end of the game. Granted, those were different circumstance but I think some of it has some value in interperting my alignment for this game.

As others have said, I very quickly started to breadcrumb my role with a question to the host and the quite righfully counter-claimed Oberon who was clearly scummy to me and had hard-claimed my role (which the setup suggested to me there was only one of).

I would've pressed on him harder sooner, but if I recall I wasn't present in the game (as I had left temporarily) until I got back where he claimed both Switcher and Busdriver

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

In fact, my agenda tends to be much more scum-hunty rather than town-hunty. If you look at that Wolf Spirits II game I didn't do much to try and secure people who I thought were town

Unlike this game

Where I actively worked against (what I thought were) Helz v Frostbyte and Helz v Bakermir TvT's.

I reconsidered Frostbyte's alignment upon the mechanical solving or information we suddenly got on D3 (that and well you killed Bakermir for who knows what reason but possibly to shade me)

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

Of a confirmed townie**

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Bro you really seem like a floundering scum about to be lynched. You're freaking out a bit.

I'm strongly leaning toward a martin lynch.

3 hours 20 minutes to EOD

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Originally Posted by FrostByte

Helz, on the other hand, is still scummy to me for pushing so hard for a mass claim.

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For someone who thinks so much like me I would expect some logic as to how pushing for your claim specifically after a mass claim had already happened without going for anything more than TPR vs Cit could be a scum driven action given it 100% cleared Matt past my butler peek but feel free to fill in those blanks when you have time.

What are your thoughts on Unknown vs Martin vs No lynch?

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Originally Posted by Helz

For someone who thinks so much like me I would expect some logic as to how pushing for your claim specifically after a mass claim had already happened without going for anything more than TPR vs Cit could be a scum driven action given it 100% cleared Matt past my butler peek but feel free to fill in those blanks when you have time.

What are your thoughts on Unknown vs Martin vs No lynch?

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We've been through this a million times by now. Mass claim was stupid and shouldn't have happened and I was not about to further contribute to it

and I already answered your other question