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Welcome to your daily useless ramblings about society, politics, and hypothetical situations!
I'm curious to see what you guys think about the consequences of sci-fi extreme automation (i.e. robots replacing most jobs). Past simple unemployment issues, do you think there would be a deeper alteration? I came to the conclusion that it would, but I'd like to see your thoughts first.
Who's is rich and who's poor if nobody got no jobs?
Communism.
How'd such a extreme reform of society/civilization be possible without disasters?
Only with an AI overmind.
Ideal scenario?
Star Trek.
My 2 cents.
I'll say though that I don't think it's possible unless some grand breakthrough in harvesting renewable energy gets discovered.
I don't think the issue is lack of breakthroughs for renewable energy.Quote:
Originally Posted by OzyWho
We have tons of options, it's just that it's harder to make money from it. You can control who gets oil, or gas. But you can't stop people using the sunlight, or wind.
Blame Capitalism.
Wealth distribution, resulting in many poor people living on below-average minimum wages, and ongoing strikes (great resignation) forces companies to find a way to fight the labour crunch. Instead of increasing basic pay and adding benefits. It's getting better to replace them with AI. Financially correct, morally wrong.
In my point of view. I agree that as technology progress, the fewer headcounts we would need. But it depends on the industry. For now, the most affected industry IMO are the retail and food industry. I might be wrong. I can see myself 5-10 years from now getting supplies from a convenience store, scan and packing stuffs on my own, and paying it via NTC or QR or whatever. But as of now, if you don't want a $15/hr job. Fine, we won't hire or we fire you. Form a strike, union, or initiate some cancel culture stuff? Is also fine, we'll just hire some immigrants who will accept a $15/hr menial job.
Also, the job simply changes, but it's a gradual change. Say... a truck driver. There's Waymo and Aurora. But you can start being a truck driver at age 21 today and would still be a truck driver at 45, 55, or 65 y/old cos it's very hard to fully automate it. I work in the networking field (vendor). And I don't see myself getting replaced 10-20 years from now by AI. There's a lot of hardware limitation. That's why I still won't learn Python. I would retire/die first before a full, automated world filled with script kiddies would happen. Heck, we aren't even ready for a world fully run by renewable energy yet cos of the bottleneck in battery technology.
Fuck Capitalism.!
Lasts posts are off-topic and exactly the opposite of what I want to discuss - this is just a reflexion on sci-fi, not a political debate!
I have a hard time believing in the "everyone's having fun forever, nobody needs to work!" theory, simply because jobs would not ALL disappear at once. Leaders would likely be the last ones to disappear... or would simply never disappear. And if leaders don't need anyone they are ruling over, what prevents them from basically going fully abusive? That makes the idea much less attractive, doesn't it? :P
Aight aight.. I'm sorry. I just can't fathom why is it off-topic ha-ha!
I mean...
Imagine a fully connected, automated world where most people does not need to work. Isn't that a commie's wet dream?
The Wall-E movie is a very good example of this... ya?
For me, a futuristic AI leader needs to know that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
If someone one of us here, for some reason we're under the "few". Then it is bad? or is it okay as it is for humanity? Do they really know everything?
Wait... Damn, I hate it when it starts to become philosophical.
But what is also important for me is we, humans to continuously move forward.
The problem of having this kind of world is stagnation.
I may look like I'm being intentionally dense, but the question is still worth asking: why is progress that important, and this, at all costs? One could argue perfection is better than progress, and that extreme automation could be "perfection".
This seems like more of a power dynamic thing than anything else. Also, why not serious debate thread?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall
MM is afraid of what serious debate does to threadsQuote:
Originally Posted by Frinckles
I feel like under an automated market you would need to name it something new. Communism is more like socialism with the government dictating production as well as distribution of production which does not fit imo.
I do not think automation could ever fully eliminate jobs. Networking and personal relationships are a huge part of business and I don't see how you could fully replace that with AI's and robots. You will always still have people in Sales, HR and management on some level and theoretically if you did have a 100% automated company nobody would be out there to advocate for legislation in its favor so I bet 'people run' companies would take advantage of it and the populous would favor taxing the hell out of it.
Then there is the aspect of creativity. Sure there are advanced AI's out there that can design more efficient parts like this wall section for an airplane ( https://cdn.redshift.autodesk.com/20...sidebyside.jpg ) but most respects of innovation and art will always be human. Take it to the extreme and markets will always exist for 'people made stuff.' Just think of the bullshit 'handmade Amish furniture' people pay for just because they assume its hand made.
Then you will need people to be there to fix and program the machines. One sci-fi concept I have always been interested in is the AI singularity where computers gain autonomy in designing computers which has many tangents. The most famous would probably be what's outlined in the terminator story line. But would that be so bad? Humans are fucking incompetent on the macro level and incapable of addressing problems proactively more than a few years ahead. We probably won't suffer too much from this but fast forward a few generations and I bet they will be looking back at our lives now as some golden age. I, Robot tackled some aspects of that problem.
Another thing that comes to mind is what would happen to people if they did not need to work. People who retire often die within 10 years of quitting work. I can speak from personal experience for both myself as well as the people I work with that when you don't have that 'reason' to get out of bed in the morning and some level of structure in your life most people fall apart.
Just a few things that come to mind. I would be very curious about how an automated market would interact with a human-driven government. Those dynamics would be very interesting to consider.
There's probably a lot of things manufactured that are let's say harmful to human health and we don't know about it or the companies yearly lawsuit expenses are well covered by their incomes.
In a world with extreme automation, I'm thinking that the only way to avoid that sort of products getting forever produced would be by limiting productions to a necessary minimum and halt all progress.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯