Re: apologizing is overrated
holy crap thats long.
This is what happens when you get too used to writing thoughts in word and refraining from posting LOL. Ahem, sorry if it's a bit padded. I'd be very flattered if anyone bothers to read it nonetheless.
Re: apologizing is overrated
(I read nothing past the mention of the last caveat)
I don't apologize if I suspect the other person to be a narcissist, ever. It's like giving candy to a kid - they'll just ask for more on a more regular basis. Same goes for other things. Like, if I ever give you or anyone a compliment whatsoever - you can be damn sure I don't think you're anything close to a narcissist. The fear of feeding one makes it so I've a very difficult time complimenting people tbh. I have issues..
Re: apologizing is overrated
Btw, in my language, there's 2 apologies:
"I'm sorry"
"please forgive me"
Is it different in English language?
(I think I just don't see the difference between "I'm sorry" and "I apologize"?)
I myself see "please forgive me" as fake - because it feels like it's about what they want.
While others (majority I think) see "I'm sorry" as fake/easy/lesser.
Go figure.
Re: apologizing is overrated
Based on your definition of an apology, I agree to some extent. Though tbh I have seen apologies from strangers/acquaintances very rarely except in PR statements and customer service so I can't be as certain lol.
What I suspect makes or breaks it is if the person who perceives having been wronged is willing to listen a bit. At which point the person who has allegedly wronged can make an apology that doesn't sound similar to others. If an apology doesn't sound like other apologies, or contextually it would be unique, then it'll sound authentic. Examples showing this:
1) When a person apologizes unnecessarily. I have two IRL friends who do this often but because its often unnecessary I find it to be genuine and authentic.
2) Apologizing and, when doing so, resolving to rectify the issue while drawing upon personal qualities / stories. In other words -- don't generalize the apology so much that it has no specific relevance to your personality or personhood.
It's likely not limited to those examples, but generally they're the most common ime.
Personally, regardless of whether I am right or wrong on this, I think people in general IRL can be pretty bad in communication skills and so that'll just mess things up anyways.
Re: apologizing is overrated
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OzyWho
Btw, in my language, there's 2 apologies:
"I'm sorry"
"please forgive me"
Is it different in English language?
(I think I just don't see the difference between "I'm sorry" and "I apologize"?)
I myself see "please forgive me" as fake - because it feels like it's about what they want.
While others (majority I think) see "I'm sorry" as fake/easy/lesser.
Go figure.
Seems like you understand the difference.
"I'm sorry" --- "I feel bad about having wronged you." Also sometimes used to express feeling bad over something terrible happening to someone else even if the person saying "I'm sorry" is not responsible at all
"Please forgive me" --- "Please don't be upset over it." This is an alternative meaning to it, but it also generally comes with the context that "I would feel bad or terrible if you're upset at me"
Also I've almost never heard "Please forgive me" outside of like dramatic movies so it's interesting to hear that here lol.
Also
Apologize === Sorry
Pretty much, except "Apologize" is probably a more "professional" way of saying it where "Sorry" is more casual
Re: apologizing is overrated
Well the way i see it there are two apology types.
The "genuine" apology. Which is where you did something you feel really bad about and you genuinely want the other person to know that you are sorry for whatever happened and that you'll like to make amends or express solidarity with the individual.
And the "strategic" apology. Aka, the one that might not be as genuine, but it is the best course of action to resolve whatever situation is happening in an hopefully non-confrontational way so that you can move on with your life and put whatever happened behind you.
Is it sometimes worth not apologizing? Well that's up to you. I don't really see why it's a big deal to not apologize unless you really did act like an douchebag and should feel some sort of shame for whatever you did.
Re: apologizing is overrated
Re: apologizing is overrated
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SuperJack
Sorry about that
You
Re: apologizing is overrated
Here's the thing about apologies. There is some point as some people can feel better when someone apologizes to them however, there are some apologies where it actually makes you more mad than happy. So I agree with this
Re: apologizing is overrated
An issue I take with apologies is that they almost always come 'after' someone is caught doing something wrong. It feels like for many its just a gesture to pacify the other person as opposed to being an expression of regret. Often the person apologizing does feel regret, but its for the repercussions they are suffering because of their action as opposed to regret for the action itself.
This rings especially hollow when the action is repeated. For someone who truly feels remorse for the action they took they will go to lengths to ensure they never cross that line again. Repeating the action reflects the words were just a shallow gesture they are socially conditioned to make in order to lessen the consequences of their action.
Its an interesting concept to chew on but figured I would through this more internal view out there because your thoughts were mostly focused on the external drivers.
Re: apologizing is overrated
Something something evolution make we be social creatures something something importance of apologies to us as a species and individuals something something
Something something
You know what I mean
Something something
Re: apologizing is overrated
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Helz
An issue I take with apologies is that they almost always come 'after' someone is caught doing something wrong. It feels like for many its just a gesture to pacify the other person as opposed to being an expression of regret. Often the person apologizing does feel regret, but its for the repercussions they are suffering because of their action as opposed to regret for the action itself.
This rings especially hollow when the action is repeated. For someone who truly feels remorse for the action they took they will go to lengths to ensure they never cross that line again. Repeating the action reflects the words were just a shallow gesture they are socially conditioned to make in order to lessen the consequences of their action.
Its an interesting concept to chew on but figured I would through this more internal view out there because your thoughts were mostly focused on the external drivers.
I disagree with the assumption that most apologies come after someone is caught and they're only apologizing to mitigate repurcussions.
While it's likely that's the only kind of apology you'll see from political figures/celebrities/organizations - the role of apologies in everyday interpersonal relationships is completely different.
Accidentally spilled water on someone? You apologize to them, no degree of getting caught.
Say something that you didn't realize would hurt someone else? You'll apologize as you didn't intend to hurt them (well assuming you're not one of those narcissists who claim "I did nothing wrong, it's YOUR fault that you were hurt by what I said)
Eat the last bit of dessert that you didn't realize someone was specifically saving? You'll apologize as you thought it was just up for grabs and didn't realize otherwise.
All of these scenarios involve situations where there was no ill intent but a negative outcome still occurred.
Those are all minor misunderstandings, but the same reasoning can be applied to more major misunderstandings too.
In day to day interpersonal scenarios it's pretty rare for someone to get "caught" doing something wrong in which an apology would be expected
Re: apologizing is overrated
Quote:
Originally Posted by
yzb25
One other aspect of apologies is they can totally change how a blunder is perceived by others. If one puffs their chest out and insists they do not owe an apology, or made a blunder but "have no regrets", that can exert a shocking amount of influence on how the people around them perceive their wrongdoing. In this way, right and wrong become subject to interpretation to an extent - an interpretation you also exert influence over. This all sounds very manipulative, but if simply reframing a situation can absolve you of most or all of the blame, did you even do anything that bad in the first place? Perhaps you're being too hard on yourself? In some situations, the answer is probably yes. And if a stubborn insistence on one's own innocence feels like it goes too far, simply neglecting to bring it up can move the needle a shocking amount, as can those slimey pseudo-apologies where a wrongdoer expresses sympathy while tiptoeing around acknowledging any wrongdoing.
If someone refuses to apologize and insists they did nothing wrong, the person they wronged is going to know the other person is an unapologetic ass. So in a 1 on 1 setting this is terrible advice (eg friendships or romantic relationships)
The place where this has some merit is in influencing the opinion of third parties. It's likely to be very effective in swaying third parties in the short term. But it comes at a price.
Said price being:
- The person you wronged and refused to apologize to doesn't go away, and they're going to continue thinking you're an unapologetic ass
- If you do this often people will start to notice a trend
So a one-off instance? Sure it can work. But this inclination to not apologize tends to be more of a personality trait which people will notice over time and soon said unapologetic person will just be known as an unapologetic ass. Word gets around after all.
Re: apologizing is overrated
I am personally of the opinion that if someone ended up hurt by your actions then it's worth giving a genuine apology as you have a scenario where someone was hurt by something you did.
Now, there are many caveats to this:
Apologizing to narcissists as Ozy pointed out is a bad idea.
Apologizing to bad faith actors or manipulators is similarly a bad idea
Apologizing to those that are chronically unapologetic themselves is a bad idea (although someone has to apologize first, and so it can often be worth it to just bite the bullet and be the first to apologize. If they apologize back then, great, feud ended and you can work towards reconciliation. If they don't, we'll now you know they're not worth your time)
Apologizing when you didn't actually do anything wrong - well apologizing is probably a worse word than something like reconciliation. But they look similar so it's worth mentioning here. You can still work to reconcile a misunderstanding even if you don't believe yourself to have any fault. Recognizing genuine remorse over someone being hurt and working on ways to prevent such misunderstandings in the future is often not only enough, but is likely to be much more genuine than the kinds of fake token apologies you get from people who don't view themselves as at fault.
That last one is something that I think many, many people struggle with, and being able to resolve misunderstandings is a skill that requires both a degree of emotional intelligence as well as the humility to swallow one's pride.
And this isn't all to say that one should just capitulate on their principles in the interest of not hurting others. Part of the process of working on ways to prevent misunderstandings could be a recognition that the two of you are mutually incompatible, perhaps due to opposing principles, beliefs, personalities, or ideas. In which case the path forwards would be to just avoid future interactions.
Re: apologizing is overrated
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lag
Recognizing genuine remorse over someone being hurt and working on ways to prevent such misunderstandings in the future is often not only enough, but is likely to be much more genuine than the kinds of fake token apologies you get from people who don't view themselves as at fault.
This one's gotten me in trouble some times. I'd be in a situation where i'm being told to apologize, but i don't believe at all that i did something that should be apologized for.
Then i'd be left with the dilemma of apologizing but secretly feeling very angry and resentful. Or to just not apologize and then create conflict with the other party. There's no winning there.
Re: apologizing is overrated
thank you lag. I am not sure what I wanted but that counter perspective really helped to straighten out my thoughts