Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism
The unintended consequence of typing out that religion made people view divorce as immoral...
I wasn't even arguing whether or not people should get divorced or not, just that religious organizations' influence on the black community kept more families together. I feel a little bad that Ganelon is just getting hit.
That being said, I think "In God we Trust" does indeed bring to mind a sort of identifying, "Hey my higher power backs me" which is religious. I'm pretty sure a lot of other countries have similar wording on their coins, so when those coffers are put to use in the war machine, which one is God backing? Pretty obvious to me that someone doesn't have a god, and likely both. Religiousness has done much wrong in the world.
Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism
Kind of dodging the discussion? What discussion? That people can be moral or immoral with marriage and divorce? No shit, there is no discussion to be had there. People can do fucked up shit we all get that. Ganelon said divorce is immoral. Not only is that an explosive hill to stand on, it's factually wrong even considering the institutes stance on it that he was advocating for. I'm not here to argue how people can be moral or immoral with marriage, I was here to point out saying divorce is immoral is retarded.
Yzb25, is divorce immoral?
Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rumox
Kind of dodging the discussion? What discussion? That people can be moral or immoral with marriage and divorce? No shit, there is no discussion to be had there. People can do fucked up shit we all get that. Ganelon said divorce is immoral. Not only is that an explosive hill to stand on, it's factually wrong even considering the institutes stance on it that he was advocating for. I'm not here to argue how people can be moral or immoral with marriage, I was here to point out saying divorce is immoral is retarded.
Yzb25, is divorce immoral?
No, but it's like not recycling. When it happens a lot it makes the world worse.
Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism
"dodging the discussion" is the wrong phrasing. I didn't mean to imply you were being dishonest or something.
Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marshmallow Marshall
Satanists are encouraging moral behavior? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the whole point of satanism to promote admittedly pure evil (whether that exists or not) and literally praise it?
The only two I have studied was the Church of Satan and the Satanic Temple.
The Church of Satan basically argued Nihilism with some code of behavior. A lot of Anton Lavey's teachings were centered around enlightenment and it was more of an Anti-religion whos position was against other religions suppressing what man was meant to be. They basically do not believe in God or Satan or anything of the sort.
The Satanic Temple is looked pretty similar to me but honestly looked more like a political movement than a church. Their mission is stated as "to encourage benevolence and empathy among all people" and they have a code of morals I think just about everyone would agree with in line with that.
I think a real cornerstone of their belief is Autonomy in every way; that your body is yours and you should be able to do whatever you want with it to extremes (but also to include things like Abortion.) I got the feeling that this 'religion' is only a religion for tax purposes and is specifically designed to tear down christian influence on government policy.
The stuff is kinda fascinating if you ever choose to take the time to dig into it. The closest thing to what people typically consider satanic behavior I have read into was either the "Left Hand Path" but that is not so much of a group as an entire field of practice with truckloads of groups under it..
-edit Or maybe read into the "books of terror and longing." Theres some stuff in there thats pretty out there
Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rumox
Kind of dodging the discussion? What discussion? That people can be moral or immoral with marriage and divorce? No shit, there is no discussion to be had there. People can do fucked up shit we all get that. Ganelon said divorce is immoral. Not only is that an explosive hill to stand on, it's factually wrong even considering the institutes stance on it that he was advocating for. I'm not here to argue how people can be moral or immoral with marriage, I was here to point out saying divorce is immoral is retarded.
Yzb25, is divorce immoral?
I said divorce is wrong, not immoral. Huge difference.
Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism
We talking about marriage now?
Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism
Divorce is generally wrong, and there’s no escaping that. I didn’t say victims should be blamed for their own misfortune, I said people should think HARD before going for a divorce, and consider why divorce became necessary. Sure you can place blame on the other person all you want for their evil all you want, but the fact of the matter is, you married them. Why? Simply regarding yourself as a victim won’t help you. You need to figure out what (if any) beliefs, principles, flaws you may have precipitated either the breakup or you marrying someone abusive/who isn’t the right fit for you. People should grow a backbone and figure out where they went wrong. Sure the other person is evil but that doesn’t change the fact that they managed to deceive you. Figure out why that is, try to salvage your life and make sure that it doesn’t affect you AS MUCH as you can, and fix whatever it was that led to the initial situation.
Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism
Of course divorce isn’t immoral. But it’s also almost always wrong. And you really can’t argue otherwise.
Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rumox
It is still denoting A God. Your choice of wording implies you are talking from some religious viewpoint (the only ones left out are of the atheist variety and why should they care?) and honestly this just confirms my view. Non-religious people are the minority in the world, and then in the USA it's drastically even more shifted in favor of theists. It makes sense to me that "In God we trust" has been codified in US law as NOT being a religious statement when the people that it is in reference to are overwhelmingly the majority of the populace. The religious population in the USA in 2016 was 79.1%, opposed to 20.9% non religion/no answers.
If a vote was put to the public where religious beliefs or lack of were attached to an individuals vote about whether "In God we trust" is a religious statement or not, I have a feeling I already will know what the results would look like.
Alcoholics Anonymous has practicing atheists who use the word "God" as their 'higher power' that keeps them sober. It can be simple things like their Kids or their Life/Sanity. From what you are saying it sounds like you are just getting hung up on semantics because you want to push the Atheist faith. How is that any different than pushing a religion? In that regard spirituality goes out the window and its just about 'us vs them' on both sides.
My point was that I never understood that drive to say "I do not believe in any God and I want to push this belief on those who do." I get that religions are all too often really disgusting things but they provide some basic functions I believe every human should practice. The simple process of challenging your belief structure and reconciling your behavior to your belief structure is just a healthy human practice. If someone does it and ties it into what you see as an imaginary sky man why do you feel the drive to push against that?
One of the angles I push is that religion is a healthy and beautiful thing but the power structures that manipulate it are really evil. For example I believe the Vatican is easily the most evil organizations that has ever existed in documented history but I think Catholicism brings many people morality, peace, and comfort.
I would rather you just ask me about my beliefs than take one word I say and assume my belief structure and therefor agenda in the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BananaCucho
"In god we trust" is in no way a moral statement, and should not be the motto of a country that prides itself in being a diverse melting pot of ideas.
What do you think the nations motto should be then?
Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism
The other person who was abusive should undoubtedly be punished. It’s just that, marriage is incredibly complicated. People who have been through a divorce need to examine the circumstances that led to it and figure out their own beliefs with respect to the other person, love, the importance of marriage, in personal tterms. Maybe they shouldn’t have been married at all. Maybe they just drifted apart because the two parties were unable to settle their differences. Maybe the other person took advantage of their love and goodwill for monetary/emotional benefits or simply out of pure evil. But it’s an extremely important and traumatic scenario and people really need to start asking themselves some very important questions prior to, during and after a divorce. You should definitely divorce someone who is being abusive, but you should ask yourself, why did you even marry them in first place? What compelled you to marry someone who was flawed in that particular manner? Did you simply not see it coming? If so you should probably be a lot more careful around people, because bad people do exist and you should be very wary of allowing someone into such a long term relationship with you if they’re not a good person.
Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BananaCucho
I can see where your coming from. The LDS Church does some pretty sick stuff. Thats probably one of the only religions I have ever seen shamelessly embrace pedophilia and its always bothered me that stuff goes on with impunity in America.
Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Helz
Alcoholics Anonymous has practicing atheists who use the word "God" as their 'higher power' that keeps them sober. It can be simple things like their Kids or their Life/Sanity. From what you are saying it sounds like you are just getting hung up on semantics because you want to push the Atheist faith. How is that any different than pushing a religion? In that regard spirituality goes out the window and its just about 'us vs them' on both sides.
My point was that I never understood that drive to say "I do not believe in any God and I want to push this belief on those who do." I get that religions are all too often really disgusting things but they provide some basic functions I believe every human should practice. The simple process of challenging your belief structure and reconciling your behavior to your belief structure is just a healthy human practice. If someone does it and ties it into what you see as an imaginary sky man why do you feel the drive to push against that?
One of the angles I push is that religion is a healthy and beautiful thing but the power structures that manipulate it are really evil. For example I believe the Vatican is easily the most evil organizations that has ever existed in documented history but I think Catholicism brings many people morality, peace, and comfort.
I would rather you just ask me about my beliefs than take one word I say and assume my belief structure and therefor agenda in the future.
What do you think the nations motto should be then?
Couldnt have said it better myself, although do you think the Vatican is still evil nowadays?
Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism
Yeah and Mormonism is also for polygamy. I never understood why that religion exists. I really don’t like it either, and I’m glad I’m not the only one.
Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism
Speaking of pedophilia, you guys don’t know this but we had a pedophilia party here in the Netherlands.
Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ganelon
Yeah and Mormonism is also for polygamy. I never understood why that religion exists. I really don’t like it either, and I’m glad I’m not the only one.
What's wrong with polygamy?
Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
deathworlds
What's wrong with polygamy?
It’s pretty misogynistic in my view.
Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ganelon
It’s pretty misogynistic in my view.
It's pretty misogynistic to think that polygamy is strictly one man and multiple women
Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oops_ur_dead
Which laws and agreements prohibit secession? Unilateral secession is illegal, but secession through revolution or consent isn't. I suppose if you consider CHAZ a revolution, that makes it legal, no?
My understanding is that it was part of the treaty signed after the civil war to bind the states back into America and it was also written into every state that was formed by virtue of the states being formed on land that was essentially owned by America. The difference between that and war at the time of sucession was that the sates entered into the nation bringing their land and they therefor had no obligation in any way to America.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oops_ur_dead
Also glad to hear that the criteria for something being aggressive or not is whether it's legal.
No clue where you got that from so.. Shrug?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oops_ur_dead
I'm curious to hear what you think should have actually happened during the Civil War, because the cognitive dissonance is dizzying. You say that slavery was bad and the Union was bad because they didn't end slavery 5 milliseconds after Lincoln was elected, yet them trying to stop the Confederacy from leaving to form a racist slave nation was aggressive and bad as well? I guess it is quite typical that "centrists" would argue that everyone should compromise and we should only enslave half the black people.
There were wrongs on all sides but I think the best thing would have been if the Union actually had the intentions they pretend to have had today. As I have said many times I believe that the morality of an action is defined by the intention behind the action. So yes declaring war on the south is unjustified but I would view it as totally acceptable if the objective actually was to enforce human rights. The problem was that it wasn't. It was just a play for greed that costed hundreds of thousands of lives.
Think of it this way- Its wrong to kill someone because you want their wallet but its justified to kill someone to prevent them from doing an extreme evil.
The difference is the intention and thats why I get all pissy about people acting like the Union was good and the Confederacy was evil. They were both committing some very evil actions for greed and power.
Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism
I mean. Most people who marry women are men. So it’s nit really misogynistic