S-FM 334 (Ladder): Once Upon a Town in the West (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)

Thank you for your hard work @Lag to deliver fun to your friends. I saw it was not easy, being on the run from the bandits and only having a phone :)

A game for the spectators! Well, the EoDs are.

I want to express my condolences to @Frinckles
Dude basically solved the game the night he died, then was forced to observe the living Town.. let's say.. not doing as good... and now he has lost his #1 spot in the FM Ladder. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also, the mechanical side of this setup isn't complete in the setup page: Death descriptions, last wills, is 51% Majority vote player count based or total vote power based, etc.
I realize the setup itself can't really be reworked because it's creator isn't here, but that's ok because I think it's ok balance.

Btw, do I understand it correct that based on the OoO - lookout is immune to Escort?
:thinking:

Congratz on MM and Mike in now sharing the #1/#2/#3 spot with Frinckles!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OzyWho

A game for the spectators! Well, the EoDs are.

I want to express my condolences to @Frinckles
Dude basically solved the game the night he died, then was forced to observe the living Town.. let's say.. not doing as good... and now he has lost his #1 spot in the FM Ladder. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also, the mechanical side of this setup isn't complete in the setup page: Death descriptions, last wills, is 51% Majority vote player count based or total vote power based, etc.
I realize the setup itself can't really be reworked because it's creator isn't here, but that's ok because I think it's ok balance.

Btw, do I understand it correct that based on the OoO - lookout is immune to Escort?
:thinking:

Congratz on MM and Mike in now sharing the #1/#2/#3 spot with Frinckles!

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Lookout is not immune to escort. It's a weird interaction - lookout's visit is immune, but receiving the feedback is not. Which for pretty much every purpose means lookout is not immune to escort except for the case where lookout chooses to target Veteran, in which case they will die to Veteran even if they're blocked by the escort since the escort doesn't stop the visitation.

Also @Frinckles had a game winning PoE on the night he was killed, had all 4 of the mafia in the bottom 6 slots on his reads list. Was very impressive to see!

GG! Damn, this was stressful. Well done teammates lol.

-vote Gikkle

Why? For suffering under the pressure of half of the Town for literally no bloody reason and surviving for so long anyway. Lol. My defense of you was entirely honest, it wasn't even whiteknighting with your typical mafia pocketing intent, it was just a nice opportunity to be myself. If anyone now wants to explain why they had scumread Gikkle, I would be very glad to hear it, because I never did throughout the entire game XD.

Honorable mentions:
- PQ for managing to escape what seemed to be inevitable death through nonsense spamming that i guess can be described as skillful given its outcome lol. Also for being wiser than me on night actions :P.
- Jmw for being a scary town player. You were the one I feared the most this game, surprisingly enough tbh (didn't exactly expect to fear someone from another site who had never played here). You were going to put us all in boxes, and actually, had it not been for the unspoken rule that killing new people on N1 is mean, you'd have been the N1 kill.
- Frinckles for accurate reads, 'nuff said mrrpht.

I didn't really read this that much, but the stuff I did read was pretty engaging; lots of posts this game.

GG and nice work all.

GG everyone sorry for the mass posts on the mast day I was trying to get my team to vote hammer. It was ment to look like it was directed at town but it was all100% directed at my teammates lol

Oh also, thanks to the host for a smooth sailing through the Wild West ^^

I will update the Ladder Soon™

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

GG! Damn, this was stressful. Well done teammates lol.

-vote Gikkle

Why? For suffering under the pressure of half of the Town for literally no bloody reason and surviving for so long anyway. Lol. My defense of you was entirely honest, it wasn't even whiteknighting with your typical mafia pocketing intent, it was just a nice opportunity to be myself. If anyone now wants to explain why they had scumread Gikkle, I would be very glad to hear it, because I never did throughout the entire game XD.

Honorable mentions:
- PQ for managing to escape what seemed to be inevitable death through nonsense spamming that i guess can be described as skillful given its outcome lol. Also for being wiser than me on night actions :P.
- Jmw for being a scary town player. You were the one I feared the most this game, surprisingly enough tbh (didn't exactly expect to fear someone from another site who had never played here). You were going to put us all in boxes, and actually, had it not been for the unspoken rule that killing new people on N1 is mean, you'd have been the N1 kill.
- Frinckles for accurate reads, 'nuff said mrrpht.

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Insufficient credit to me, I am going to brag :)
I also had Jmw on my side via more non-sensical night chat
And I "attempted" to convince Loldebite to not RB me N5 by pointing out I was town and I did the fake vote to see if other scumbags would follow so we could out them all. Loldebite complied and RBed me.
1st scum game and WINNING!

Screw you MM for ruining flawless victory.

goodgame guys! sorry i got inactive a bit i was so scared lol

that was so so toughie

oliver, frinckles, auwt i loved playing with yall the most, even tho i loved playing with everyone. its just yall are so nice.

did lag send my epic edits to deadchat like i asked..? i hope so, if so: im sorry i couldnt make one for you oberon, if you want i can but i was making them only for the mafia nks ;)

Frinckles, Mike, and PQR all did really well this game. Not sure who to vote for as "MVP" though. Frinckles had great reads, Mike did great manipulation, and PQR managed to basically waste our day 2 by just yelling loudly (which is a legitimate tactic!)

I'll think more on it, but gj to you three.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gikkle

Frinckles, Mike, and PQR all did really well this game. Not sure who to vote for as "MVP" though. Frinckles had great reads, Mike did great manipulation, and PQR managed to basically waste our day 2 by just yelling loudly (which is a legitimate tactic!)

I'll think more on it, but gj to you three.

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Some honorable mentions are MM and @jmw
Both were strong players for their respective teams. In Jmw's case, he got led astray with the S/T me/Paopan thing, but his play was still respectable and a lot of his reads were very solid. I feel if me and Jmw were able to work together instead of just glaring at each other from across the room all game we could have done great things for town.

Neat playing with and meeting some new people.

Gikkle and Loldebite had some impressive townplay. Overall town couldn't get the game rolling quickly enough.

Mike and PQR also played a strong game controlling the narrative and not letting a towncore form until the very last moments of the game.

There's probably some lessons to learn from this game. While I thought I set everything up well in the event that I was targeted, I didn't explain to my townreads what I was thinking before I was killed. I focused too much on PQR and at one point even unvoted him just so I could use the remaining time to get more reads on JMW/MM. Even though I had a feeling Mike was scum because of the telegraphed check on Light, I did little to let anyone else know. I also gave too much leeway for MM/Luona to be left unaccountable for my death. So,

-vote pqrnhack

Gg

On a side note, some of you seem to have limitless patience. I think I would have kicked the scum team out of a 10th-story window if I had been left alive out of sheer anger. It was kind of fun to watch though. PJSalt

And as always, thanks for the professional hosting you spoil us with @Lag

Gg. Sorry for going so heavy on the insults. Last week was awful for me. One exam plus 2 deadlines within 3 days of each other on top of having to work.

Oh, well this was kinda, expected.
Gg mm, you successfully pocketed me.
Gg mike and porn, never expected that yelling around would work, but you successfully evaded lynch.
Sorry auwt, sorry paopan. I think i owe you something. May our next game be more peaceful.

The last four remaining town: auwt, ly, oberon, loldebite, and me.
We abandoned the logic and remained purely on our feelings.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtUmhZ1VAAEMY-G.jpg

ANNOUCEMENT!! FROM LORD MAYOR PAOPAN

The great time is now dawning, the sc2 community... has now awakened.

The scums may have won power in this FM game, now it is up to us to win over the sc2mafia community as townies in the upcoming games.

I know... I know of the tenths of hundreds of you who are listening to me now all over the world, and the some of you who in this past year sometimes asked: how much longer? why won't town win at FM games? why won't town listen to the Lord?

I know, my comrades, it must often have been difficult for you, when you thought a change would have to come, and it didn't come, and again and again, the call went out to you:

the struggle must continue, it's not going right, you cannot act on your own, you have to obey, you have to submit, you have to yield to this tremendous pressure.

So I want to thank you for not having faltered under the rule of Lord Mayor Paopan, for not having abandoned me during the harshest times (except Vig), for all this is thanks to you alone, if you had gone at that time, the town would never have been saved!

Upon playing this FM game with all of you. It is I, the Lord Mayor whose task is to respect them, to listen to them, to serve them, to protect them, and to always be worthy of them.

It is also the Lord's duty to give merits on those who played well. Gikkle pushed the bounds of science and discovery. Despite being town, he/she managed to convince everyone that he is scum. So the Lord's MVP vote will come upon him

-vote Gikkle

All is not for naught. The people dreamed of these forums. The people built this community.

And it is the people who are making sc2mafia great again.

As long as we are proud of who we are, and what we are fighting for, there is nothing we cannot achieve.

As long as we have confidence in our values, faith in our citizens, and trust in our God, we will not fail.

Our families will thrive. Our people will prosper.

And our sc2mafia forum will forever be safe and strong and proud and mighty and free.

Thank you, and God bless sc2mafia.

Gg.
Sorry Gikkle and oliver x_x
And I guess I also owe excuses to Oberon for what I've been saying.
Was fun anyway, thanks for hosting Lag.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NotPaopan

ANNOUCEMENT!! FROM LORD MAYOR PAOPAN

The great time is now dawning, the sc2 community... has now awakened.

The scums may have won power in this FM game, now it is up to us to win over the sc2mafia community as townies in the upcoming games.

I know... I know of the tenths of hundreds of you who are listening to me now all over the world, and the some of you who in this past year sometimes asked: how much longer? why won't town win at FM games? why won't town listen to the Lord?

I know, my comrades, it must often have been difficult for you, when you thought a change would have to come, and it didn't come, and again and again, the call went out to you:

the struggle must continue, it's not going right, you cannot act on your own, you have to obey, you have to submit, you have to yield to this tremendous pressure.

So I want to thank you for not having faltered under the rule of Lord Mayor Paopan, for not having abandoned me during the harshest times (except Vig), for all this is thanks to you alone, if you had gone at that time, the town would never have been saved!

Upon playing this FM game with all of you. It is I, the Lord Mayor whose task is to respect them, to listen to them, to serve them, to protect them, and to always be worthy of them.

It is also the Lord's duty to give merits on those who played well. Gikkle pushed the bounds of science and discovery. Despite being town, he/she managed to convince everyone that he is scum. So the Lord's MVP vote will come upon him

-vote Gikkle

All is not for naught. The people dreamed of these forums. The people built this community.

And it is the people who are making sc2mafia great again.

As long as we are proud of who we are, and what we are fighting for, there is nothing we cannot achieve.

As long as we have confidence in our values, faith in our citizens, and trust in our God, we will not fail.

Our families will thrive. Our people will prosper.

And our sc2mafia forum will forever be safe and strong and proud and mighty and free.

Thank you, and God bless sc2mafia.

---

Paopans first post i agree with...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Auwt

Gg.
Sorry Gikkle and oliver x_x
And I guess I also owe excuses to Oberon for what I've been saying.
Was fun anyway, thanks for hosting Lag.

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Its ok. I was not fun to play with either.

NotPaopan is the mayor with 1 votes.

Lots of great performances this game!

@Loldebite with the great blocks on PQ and MM. Even though night 1 was actually a no-kill from bandits, the fact that Loldebite actually targeted a bandit saved town from a disaster involving an miselimination on whoever Loldebite targeted, followed by another miselimination on Loldebite for "framing a townie" and even if Loldebite avoids miselimination, it would "clear" MM for having made a save. Town might have just lost on the spot way earlier if Loldebite didn't pick correctly there! On top of that he had the block on MM to almost give town another chance to win!

@Frinckles had a game winning PoE by day 2 with all 4 bandits in his bottom 6 slots. If the bandits didn't kill him when they did, I am confident that Frinckles would have lead town to a victory. Very impressive solving from his slot!

But ultimately I think my MVP vote this game goes to

-vote Mike

@Mike led the mafia team to a convincing victory, he had a textbook-perfect open wolf performance, constantly leading town astray, pushing them down all the wrong paths. And sending anyone that caught wind of his openwolfing right to the graveyard! Mike was advocating on day 2 for town to vote out whoever Loldebite blocked... until Loldebite revealed he blocked PQ and Mike did a complete 180 on the spot! Mike's night 2 check was conveniently the person that the mafia killed. The prot roles that ought to have saved said night 2 check were spared of any serious suspicion with Mike controlling the narrative for the game, continuing to push the Paopan/Gikkle false dichotomy.

The best part of a good openwolf performance is that from the graveyard, knowing he's a wolf, it all feels so obvious - how is no one catching him?? But that's where Mike's excellent play came in this game - by controlling the narrative it makes the detection of these maneuvers so much more difficult, and Mike exploited this fact to the fullest to openly protect his teammates and push townies instead, securing what was - for most intents and purposes - a clean sweep victory for the bandit faction!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lag

NotPaopan is the mayor with 1 votes.

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D E M O T E D
#NotMyMayor
#AllVotesCount

-vote Marshmallow Marshall

I have significant trouble understanding the other choices for MVP.
The only town MVP was loldebite.

You guys can circle jerk and sniff each other's tails about who's the smartest all you want, I'm just here to play and win the game. All the plays this game from scum were very predictable. What was NOT predictable was MM being scum. He literally played this game like town.

Loldebite was also very effective, especially during the last few days. I have rarely seen someone dismantle arguments head-on as he has.

I guess the difference is I'm thinking in terms of great plays whereas everyone else is thinking in terms of 'better plays than the other players'. In which case yeah, maybe Mike, PHack weren't that bad. But let me tell you, having played thousands of mod games and many FM games, no, their play was shit. It's really not that hard to win as scum when town is shit. You can even be just a bit worse than them and still win.

Just my 2c.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oberon

The only town MVP was loldebite.

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The towny who solved the game the night he died and got killed for it, while being one of the most cooperative players when alive, is not under consideration? :huh:
I guess early/first deaths tend to be forgotten in favor of recency bias? Is that's what's happening here? :idea:
Not saying lold didn't deserve the MVP consideration. But him being the only one? I don't agree.

MM played well, no question there. I personally think though that him being the bottom 2 poster had a non zero influence on being under radar. By comparison, I think it's more impressive being the top1 poster, by a large margin, yet still not even being considered as a wolf by the world builders who considered over half the players, and being like top4-5 scumreads for most others?

That happened after he died. His in-game reads prior to that (even before he died) were not that good. Comparable to what other people were saying.
Mike was scumread by multiple people prior to the 4v4. He really was not that good this game. I love Mike, and he's a good friend, but no. He just didn't play that well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oberon

All the plays this game from scum were very predictable. What was NOT predictable was MM being scum. He literally played this game like town.

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That's your pov. My pov is more townies suspecting MM than Mike.¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OzyWho

The towny who solved the game the night he died and got killed for it, while being one of the most cooperative players when alive, is not under consideration? :huh:
I guess early/first deaths tend to be forgotten in favor of recency bias? Is that's what's happening here? :idea:
Not saying lold didn't deserve the MVP consideration. But him being the only one? I don't agree.

MM played well, no question there. I personally think though that him being the bottom 2 poster had a non zero influence on being under radar. By comparison, I think it's more impressive being the top1 poster, by a large margin, yet still not even being considered as a wolf by the world builders who considered over half the players, and being like top4-5 scumreads for most others?

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Was I really the 2nd bottom poster?? I guess some of my posts were longer than most people's because I use multiquote often enough and refrain from spamming, but still, strange. I was active enough to pretty much drive the "rational" side of the scum here afaik, PQ being the "chaos" driver and the other two being part of the chaos/unknowns and placing votes at the right time. I don't think I went "under the radar" at all, actually; that wasn't my strategy.

Also, there were actually many reasonably good plays from townies, they just didn't manage to make them dominant, and the nonsense from some other townies drowned everyone into a sea of misguided reads.
And I disagree I'm the only MVP-worthy outside of Loldebite here, too, for the "reasonably good plays from townies" reason mostly.

Give this man a cookie for intentionally not spamming! ^^

Why can't I give rep.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oberon

You guys can circle jerk and sniff each other's tails about who's the smartest all you want, I'm just here to play and win the game. All the plays this game from scum were very predictable. What was NOT predictable was MM being scum. He literally played this game like town.

Loldebite was also very effective, especially during the last few days. I have rarely seen someone dismantle arguments head-on as he has.

I guess the difference is I'm thinking in terms of great plays whereas everyone else is thinking in terms of 'better plays than the other players'. In which case yeah, maybe Mike, PHack weren't that bad. But let me tell you, having played thousands of mod games and many FM games, no, their play was shit. It's really not that hard to win as scum when town is shit. You can even be just a bit worse than them and still win.

Just my 2c.

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The fact that I died first with a doctor alive who should be assumed to be healing me as he'd be protected and bussed but gave no indication of deciding not to even after voting pqr with me didn't ping you at all? Kappa

MM and Luona both played well but I think there were some red flags there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OzyWho

The towny who solved the game the night he died and got killed for it, while being one of the most cooperative players when alive, is not under consideration? :huh:
I guess early/first deaths tend to be forgotten in favor of recency bias? Is that's what's happening here? :idea:
Not saying lold didn't deserve the MVP consideration. But him being the only one? I don't agree.

MM played well, no question there. I personally think though that him being the bottom 2 poster had a non zero influence on being under radar. By comparison, I think it's more impressive being the top1 poster, by a large margin, yet still not even being considered as a wolf by the world builders who considered over half the players, and being like top4-5 scumreads for most others?

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Loldebite/Gikkle deserve town MVP more than me if that's even a consideration. They both dealt with unprecedented and exhausting levels of scum shitflinging and still started piecing things together.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

Was I really the 2nd bottom poster?? I guess some of my posts were longer than most people's because I use multiquote often enough and refrain from spamming, but still, strange. I was active enough to pretty much drive the "rational" side of the scum here afaik, PQ being the "chaos" driver and the other two being part of the chaos/unknowns and placing votes at the right time. I don't think I went "under the radar" at all, actually; that wasn't my strategy.

Also, there were actually many reasonably good plays from townies, they just didn't manage to make them dominant, and the nonsense from some other townies drowned everyone into a sea of misguided reads.
And I disagree I'm the only MVP-worthy outside of Loldebite here, too, for the "reasonably good plays from townies" reason mostly.

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You were kind of sparse this game, not in the lurker type of way but that's actually why I unvoted PQR when we had him at L-1 and Light was ready to hammer. You and JMW hadn't been online at the same time really and I wanted to see if there were any clues to pick up. Unfortunately it gave you a chance to unvote.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frinckles

The fact that I died first with a doctor alive who should be assumed to be healing me as he'd be protected and bussed but gave no indication of deciding not to even after voting pqr with me didn't ping you at all? Kappa

MM and Luona both played well but I think there were some red flags there.

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I did say I decided not to heal you because... something something I had no reason to trust you and had some suspicions + townread PQ at that point something something after your death. Nobody said anything about it, and it looks like you didn't notice it either... which was great, really! :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frinckles

Loldebite/Gikkle deserve town MVP more than me if that's even a consideration. They both dealt with unprecedented and exhausting levels of scum shitflinging and still started piecing things together.

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+1, except I think you give yourself too little credit :P.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oberon

That happened after he died. His in-game reads prior to that (even before he died) were not that good. Comparable to what other people were saying.
Mike was scumread by multiple people prior to the 4v4. He really was not that good this game. I love Mike, and he's a good friend, but no. He just didn't play that well.

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On wolfing:
"Your win condition is to kill townies, not to imitate your town game or to side with the town. At the end of the game, people usually hail the mafia players that were considered consensus town, while they should be hailing the mafia players that managed to survive while getting tons of dirt on their hands. There are no bonus points awarded for being "consensus town" when the game has ended. If everyone in the graveyard is calling you an obvious scum, then great - that is why they are there."

Mike did this extremely well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frinckles

On a side note, some of you seem to have limitless patience. I think I would have kicked the scum team out of a 10th-story window if I had been left alive out of sheer anger. It was kind of fun to watch though. PJSalt

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Well, guess why i've been conscienciously avoiding this thread :D
GG everyone, it's been fun ! A bit frustrating at the end, but hey. Happens.

As for MVP considerations i'd say many have been equally okay on the town side (jmw, Gikkle, Frinckles) but because those were seldom in agreement, town was stuck at the mercy of our deeply hated outlaws.
On the scum side, i'd say luona did a pretty good job early on, but afterwards the post count alone was terrifying.
PQR, i cannot agree he played well regardless of how effective it turned out to be. IMO such play should get you lynched, being the block on a kill-less night is just a cherry on top.
MM, i agree, had great early days. After Frinckles' death, the "omg he's our prot" factor kept him alive, and i'd say he took advantage of it well.
I think Mike did a pretty good job too, but perhaps PQR should get a bit of credit there because of his night chats, i do believe Mike had a great influence in those. After all, Mike's pocketing on LY is what won scum the game, so MVPing him for that certainly doesnt seem unreasonable to me.