S-FM Gold Rush (14p)

S-FM Gold Rush (14p)

2x Mafia Goons
1x Mafia Roleblocker
1x Town Motion Detector
1x 1-Shot Town Vigilante (n2+)
1x Town Doctor
8x Vanilla Townie

Spoiler : Role Cards :

You're a Vanilla Townie. You win when all threats to Town have been eliminated.

You're a Town Doctor. You win when all threats to Town have been eliminated.
Each night you may target someone to protect them from an attack.

You're a Town Vigilante. You win when all threats to Town have been eliminated.
Once per game, from 2nd night onwards, you may attack someone at night.

You're a Town Motion Detector. You win when all threats to Town have been eliminated.
Each night you may target a player and learn if any actions were performed by or on that player, but not what the actions were or who else they involved.

You're a Mafia Goon. You win when all Town has been eliminated.
Your teammates are:
You can speak with the other Mafia members here:

You're a Mafia Roleblocker. You win when all Town has been eliminated.
Each night, you may target someone to roleblock.
Your teammates are:
You can speak with the other Mafia members here:

Special Mechanics
-Flips are alignment only.
-D1 it's Plurality Lynch; D2+ it's Plurality+Majority.
-At LYLO, the first vote of players are "locked".

Mechanics
-Days last 48 hours. Nights last 24 hours.
-The mafia have a permanent chat.
-The mafia have a mandatory factional night kill. Factional kill is assigned.
-Voting to skip is allowed.
-No Suicides.
-No Last Wills.
-No Death Notes.

Possible Feedbacks
-Town Motion Detector:

• "Motion Detected"
• "Motion Not Detected"
• "No Result" (roleblocked)

Win Conditions
Town: Eliminate the Mafia and have at least one surviving member.
Mafia: Eliminate the Town and have at least one surviving member.

Order of Operations
1)Roleblocks
2)Protections
3)Kills
4)Investigations

Rules of Conduct
1. Forum Mafia Rules
2. Each player may make a maximum of 150 posts per day phase (this restriction is lifted 2 hours before day end).

@Marshmallow Marshall
I think this is ready?
It's edit of Season 8 Mafia Championship setup. Originally they wanted a "counterclaim" setup where Mafia had a role cop. Not sure if that idea still is there without that role cop?

Btw, have we gotten our invite yet? :D

Isn't it a little OP to have 3 TPRs but only one Mafia PR?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oberon

Isn't it a little OP to have 3 TPRs but only one Mafia PR?

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Not to mention it's 3v12 instead of 3v10 like standard. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In terms of balance, I'd say it's very similar to last seasons setup. Which means Mafia will win almost all qualifier games but then town will win almost all semifinals and finals games? :D

Tbh, I'd say anything within like 30-70% range is playable in general. In championship even more so because it's every player individually who gets judged and not the team.

Doc is kinda the towns only real PR. Vig adds swing + self confirm while no flips break mechanical hunting and role cop detects PR which is mostly just a 'most likely town' result.

Worst case for scum assuming successful NKs is 25% RNG risk D1, 18% RNG risk D2 and 10% RNG risk D3
Best case for lynch (with NK) is 80, 76, 72, 2/3, and 57% on Mylo D5

Regardless when scums best world is a 'chance to win D5 via tie if everything goes perfect' (to include TvT vig) I do not think its a very balanced setup in multiple regards. Although depriving town of mechanical information and peeks makes the game much more RNG?

A bit of rambling for what its worth..

-edit
I think a larger concern will be the lack of conversation driving factors in a game that should easily be 6+ days. Balanced or not this game will totally depend on players creating their own conflicts which could get boring in such a long game..

Ah, I didn't notice this was flipless.

Edit: nvm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OzyWho

Not to mention it's 3v12 instead of 3v10 like standard. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In terms of balance, I'd say it's very similar to last seasons setup. Which means Mafia will win almost all qualifier games but then town will win almost all semifinals and finals games? :D

Tbh, I'd say anything within like 30-70% range is playable in general. In championship even more so because it's every player individually who gets judged and not the team.

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Interesting. How do players get judged? I assume there's points associated with specific actions, which is kinda meh. It's hard to assign points to this game, because who did what is subjective, for instance who got X lynched or when to give someone points for finding Mafia. These things are hard to determine. So its usually just easier to give points for obvious things like the number of days you survived, the number of Mafia trains you voted, 'good night actions', ect.

This works in the best case scenario, but in other cases you need to come up with an alternative method of scoring ppl, and tbh two things come to mind: requiring players to PM the host who they think scum is and giving X points to the player who figures it out first, Y points to the next, ect. The other one is to go through every possible scenario individually and decide which player was the most influential/helpful or whatever and assign different amounts of points to each of the scenarios.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oberon

Interesting. How do players get judged? I assume there's points associated with specific actions, which is kinda meh. It's hard to assign points to this game, because who did what is subjective, for instance who got X lynched or when to give someone points for finding Mafia. These things are hard to determine. So its usually just easier to give points for obvious things like the number of days you survived, the number of Mafia trains you voted, 'good night actions', ect.

This works in the best case scenario, but in other cases you need to come up with an alternative method of scoring ppl, and tbh two things come to mind: requiring players to PM the host who they think scum is and giving X points to the player who figures it out first, Y points to the next, ect. The other one is to go through every possible scenario individually and decide which player was the most influential/helpful or whatever and assign different amounts of points to each of the scenarios.

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In the link I posted in #2 there's a button called Tournament Structure - it describes the process in a concise manner imho.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OzyWho

@Marshmallow Marshall
I think this is ready?
It's the setup of Season 8 Mafia Championship. Originally they wanted a "counterclaim" setup where Mafia had a role cop. Not sure if that idea still is there without that role cop?

Btw, have we gotten our invite yet? :D

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No, but you'll know when we do! And in the meantime, this setup can build the hype :)

As everyone has already pointed out, the setup seems a little town-favored if we look at the numbers. However, the TPRs are quite weak, especially given the lack of role flips and the absence of last wills. It's going to be hard for town to build a PoE based on VT and PR claims. Therefore, it might not favor town too horribly, although it probably does a little too much.

I suggest removing one VT. It would make it so that scum can win on N4 instead of on D5 LYLO if everything goes perfectly well for them, which is already more than fair for town, considering many things could go "imperfectly" for scum.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Helz

Doc is kinda the towns only real PR. Vig adds swing + self confirm while no flips break mechanical hunting and role cop detects PR which is mostly just a 'most likely town' result.

Worst case for scum assuming successful NKs is 25% RNG risk D1, 18% RNG risk D2 and 10% RNG risk D3
Best case for lynch (with NK) is 80, 76, 72, 2/3, and 57% on Mylo D5

Regardless when scums best world is a 'chance to win D5 via tie if everything goes perfect' (to include TvT vig) I do not think its a very balanced setup in multiple regards. Although depriving town of mechanical information and peeks makes the game much more RNG?

A bit of rambling for what its worth..

-edit
I think a larger concern will be the lack of conversation driving factors in a game that should easily be 6+ days. Balanced or not this game will totally depend on players creating their own conflicts which could get boring in such a long game..

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Mountainous games are perfectly playable and enjoyable. Weak PRs don't make a game boring; some would argue strong PRs do. And if town lacks conversation topics, it means townies are doing something very wrong lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oberon

Interesting. How do players get judged? I assume there's points associated with specific actions, which is kinda meh. It's hard to assign points to this game, because who did what is subjective, for instance who got X lynched or when to give someone points for finding Mafia. These things are hard to determine. So its usually just easier to give points for obvious things like the number of days you survived, the number of Mafia trains you voted, 'good night actions', ect.

This works in the best case scenario, but in other cases you need to come up with an alternative method of scoring ppl, and tbh two things come to mind: requiring players to PM the host who they think scum is and giving X points to the player who figures it out first, Y points to the next, ect. The other one is to go through every possible scenario individually and decide which player was the most influential/helpful or whatever and assign different amounts of points to each of the scenarios.

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There is no perfect way to judge players individually because there are no purely objective and universally recognized criteria to determine a player's performance. It will always be subjective. The way the tournament works seems fair to me, since at least players aren't judged by a machine or through a rigid "performance grid".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

I suggest removing one VT. It would make it so that scum can win on N4 instead of on D5 LYLO if everything goes perfectly well for them, which is already more than fair for town, considering many things could go "imperfectly" for scum.

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I agree with this change. I wanted to make that changed too, but not for the reason you described but for getting an even number of players thanks to that 1-shot Vigi. I chose against to keep the setup as is in the Champs.

Are you sure we want to add our own balance to it instead of keeping it as in Champs? (ftr, I don't want to host it - I wanted to add it on SC2Mafia because I thought that's an interesting thing to do)

I personally view this setup by comparing it to Mountainous 15er. Mountainous setups are proven to be incredibly scum favored, all within 20%-27% range for Town. This setup adds power to the Town undoubtedly, but the question is how much? I think it's not as Town favored as D6, and D6 is fun - which is why I myself personally conclude that the setup is playable even outside the Champs. My range of playable is quite wide though, and I 100% agree that 1 less VT would be better in every way except it no longer being a carbon copy.

What do you think of the win condition? Atm it's the only difference from the original. I just don't think that the MU's "Mafia win when overpower Town" is explanatory enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

Mountainous games are perfectly playable and enjoyable. Weak PRs don't make a game boring; some would argue strong PRs do. And if town lacks conversation topics, it means townies are doing something very wrong lol.


There is no perfect way to judge players individually because there are no purely objective and universally recognized criteria to determine a player's performance. It will always be subjective. The way the tournament works seems fair to me, since at least players aren't judged by a machine or through a rigid "performance grid".

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Of course, but there are absolutely some terrible ways to judge players. I don't know how the tournament works but usually the 'points' you get aren't really representative

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OzyWho

I agree with this change. I wanted to make that changed too, but not for the reason you described but for getting an even number of players thanks to that 1-shot Vigi. I chose against to keep the setup as is in the Champs.

Are you sure we want to add our own balance to it instead of keeping it as in Champs? (ftr, I don't want to host it - I wanted to add it on SC2Mafia because I thought that's an interesting thing to do)

I personally view this setup by comparing it to Mountainous 15er. Mountainous setups are proven to be incredibly scum favored, all within 20%-27% range for Town. This setup adds power to the Town undoubtedly, but the question is how much? I think it's not as Town favored as D6, and D6 is fun - which is why I myself personally conclude that the setup is playable even outside the Champs. My range of playable is quite wide though, and I 100% agree that 1 less VT would be better in every way except it no longer being a carbon copy.

What do you think of the win condition? Atm it's the only difference from the original. I just don't think that the MU's "Mafia win when overpower Town" is explanatory enough.

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Is there a real benefit to it being a carbon copy, though? Simply putting a link to the original setup in the OP should do the same archive work for the site, if that's your intent (unless I misunderstand your intent). I think making the setup more fun according to our standards is better if we want to play it on our own site. As for the setup's playability, it's borderline IMO, and I'm not sure everyone would enjoy it.

The Mafia's wincon could use a "or have nothing possibly preventing you from doing so" to avoid dragging the game on for no reason when town loses majority and cannot gain it back through doc or vigi.

Ok 1 less VT now.
Didn't change the win con though, I trust hosts to not drag it out. :cheesy:

Edit: is it now S-FM?
:thinking:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OzyWho

Ok 1 less VT now.
Didn't change the win con though, I trust hosts to not drag it out. :cheesy:

Edit: is it now S-FM?
:thinking:

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Alright. And yes, it is S-FM; everything below 20P is S-FM, actually. The only reason this distinction exists is to prevent new hosts from hosting huge games and failing horribly due to the difficulty of the task.

Approved. If you ever want to be added to the Queue, feel free to say it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OzyWho

Ok 1 less VT now.

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With that additional 1 VT, the current stats for this setup are:

Game 1: ended on Day 5 in a town victory! Game 2: ended on Day 7 in a town victory! Game 3: ended on Day 7 in a mafia victory! Game 4: ended on Day 4 in a mafia victory! Game 5: ended on Day 5 in a mafia victory! Game 6: ended on Day 8 in a mafia victory! Game 7: ended on Day 6 in a mafia victory! Game 8: ended on Day 7 in a mafia victory! Game 9: ended on Day 7 in a mafia victory! Game 10: ended on Day 4 in a mafia victory! Semifinal 1: ended on Day 5 in a town victory! Semifinal 2: ended on Day 4 in a town victory! Semifinal 3: ended on Day 6 in a mafia victory! Finale: currently ongoing

Note: champs are notoriously imbalanced from the players side. In all seasons most qualis are wolf won and most semis+finals are town won. Most often town has a win rate of 36% - which would be again this season if town wins finals.


Honestly, this setup is fine with or without that 1 VT.

Edit: aaaand Mafia won the Finals. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯