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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Voss
Once again, I wasn't part of the discussion where there was some ruling made about avatar so idk what you want from me with that tag.
If the ask is to turn off colored ranks if you're in any FM game, then someone like MM might as well just be put into some shadow staff because they're in every game.
almost sounds like /volunteering/ to do /staff/ work supersedes someone's /desire/ to partake in a /game/
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Voss
Once again, I wasn't part of the discussion where there was some ruling made about avatar so idk what you want from me with that tag.
If the ask is to turn off colored ranks if you're in any FM game, then someone like MM might as well just be put into some shadow staff because they're in every game.
The discussion wasn't as relevant as the fact that someone got lynched over it, so it must hold some weight. If you disagree with that premise then address that, don't sidestep it.
The solution is irrelevant to that point. The point is that it absolutely affects games. We can get to the solution after we've established that the games are being affected.
Do you think red names affect how people perceive the player with the red name?
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
wonder how many ppl who work as fucking janitors cleaning shitters @ the superbowl get pissed off cause they gotta do their job instead of spectate the game
if its such a big deal, and u wanna play so bad, /resign/ and /advise/. dont ruin the overall quality of games to cater to the fact you want a red name but still be treated like a standard user.
cant have your cake and eat it too
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
besides, mm was decent enough to add a 2nd chair to his desk so he and deathworlds could rub elbows in the same office doing the same job. surely deathworlds is competent enough to independently run the show if mm wants to "go on a vacation" and hop on an alt and play an sfm, no?
and if staff don't circlejerk and swallow eachother's loads daily, then surely if mm is actually wronged in a game, deathworlds would independently see that and act without even knowing mm was on a smurf, right?
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
deathworlds is a marshmallow marshall vpn lmfao
this is so sad
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
What about petitioning the next host of the next game played to not allow players with colored names?
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FrostByte
The discussion wasn't as relevant as the fact that someone got lynched over it, so it must hold some weight. If you disagree with that premise then address that, don't sidestep it.
The solution is irrelevant to that point. The point is that it absolutely affects games. We can get to the solution after we've established that the games are being affected.
Do you think red names affect how people perceive the player with the red name?
^^^^ this
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Voss
What about petitioning the next host of the next game played to not allow players with colored names?
Why are you sidestepping my questions?
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Voss
What about petitioning the next host of the next game played to not allow players with colored names?
because the problem isnt colored names as a whole
the problem is fm staff
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
it's incredibly frustrating to get non answers every single time I address staff with very specific questions
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Voss
What about petitioning the next host of the next game played to not allow players with colored names?
although, it probably WOULD be in the next host's best interest to not let staff play considering if you make a night action mistake involving a member of staff, the precedent is a life banishment from ever hosting again.
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
also
@Voss
considering how shady you're being about this topic, im totally not apologetic anymore for griefing ur minecraft house 7 yrs ago
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FrostByte
The discussion wasn't as relevant as the fact that someone got lynched over it, so it must hold some weight. If you disagree with that premise then address that, don't sidestep it.
The solution is irrelevant to that point. The point is that it absolutely affects games. We can get to the solution after we've established that the games are being affected.
Do you think red names affect how people perceive the player with the red name?
I could say that I think red names with "Admin" under them MIGHT affect new people in their first couple of games. But I also don't expect new people to be doing anything that might attract a moderation standpoint.
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bruno
also
@
Voss
considering how shady you're being about this topic, im totally not apologetic anymore for griefing ur minecraft house 7 yrs ago
I've never played minecraft lololol
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Voss
I could say that I think red names with "Admin" under them MIGHT affect new people in their first couple of games. But I also don't expect new people to be doing anything that might attract a moderation standpoint.
ignoring people have said avatars change their perceptions/reads on players because u werent part of the convo is like saying trump can still win
asinine head-in-sand stance
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Voss
I've never played minecraft lololol
who the fuck did i grief
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bruno
deathworlds is a marshmallow marshall vpn lmfao
this is so sad
Ah yes, the first four years of me being here was just a trial run for when MM eventually joined in his full glory.
ffs
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bruno
although, it probably WOULD be in the next host's best interest to not let staff play considering if you make a night action mistake involving a member of staff, the precedent is a life banishment from ever hosting again.
I assume you're talking about Mesk here but I don't see how it directly applies to staff's colors in game, so this is irrelevant. It really seems like you have a problem with MM specifically and FrostByte's problem is actually about staff colors in games.
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Voss
I assume you're talking about Mesk here but I don't see how it directly applies to staff's colors in game, so this is irrelevant. It really seems like you have a problem with MM specifically and FrostByte's problem is actually about staff colors in games.
lmfao sorry but that's wrong. personally i have no problem with mm. we've had our times but dude doesnt live in my head rent free.
frostbyte and i are on the same page. its not about staff colors. it's about administrators actively moderating in game they're active in
idk how many times i have to reiterate this
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
also it was
@SuperJack
i griefed, i think. he used 2 have that doctor who tardis pic. or he did when i griefed him. confused yall cuz ur similar
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
mesk was done dirty, absolutely. similar topic/issue 4 sure, but its not inherently anti mm. mm just seems to be at the center of the drama
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bruno
frostbyte and i are on the same page. its not about staff colors. it's about administrators actively moderating in game they're active in
I don't think you're on the same page, but whatever.
If the problem is admins actively moderating games, I think fm staff is going to put out some formal announcement if they haven't already that that behavior is to be discontinued. And the hiring of deathworlds AND putting up the "help wanted" post is supposed to alleviate this. This was already mentioned.
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Voss
I don't think you're on the same page, but whatever.
If the problem is admins actively moderating games, I think fm staff is going to put out some formal announcement if they haven't already that that behavior is to be discontinued. And the hiring of deathworlds AND putting up the "help wanted" post is supposed to alleviate this. This was already mentioned.
we're not on the same page. we're just quoting eachothers posts and supplying supporting evidence for each other. right.
im glad you can determine for us that we're not actively on the same page as we both collaborate off-site about what we're trying to get fixed. you're fosing me instead of actually addressing the issue, and continuing to sidestep frostbyte's reiterations of my questions by not replying to him anymore, but replying to me instead.
if this were an sfm i'd be -vote voss
'ing your scummy ass so hard right now
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
and i scumread 2/3 of mafia in the last sfm i played so ima go ahead and trust my reads. you're scum defending mm without actually saying anything in his defense
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
I personally don't have a problem with staff flipping their colour off during FM games. I am not FM staff though so my opinion isn't law.
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
We can take a poll about it? At least to see where everyone is at on it.
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bruno
also it was
@
SuperJack
i griefed, i think. he used 2 have that doctor who tardis pic. or he did when i griefed him. confused yall cuz ur similar
Yo u summoned me yah plonker. Sup?
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bruno
also
@
Voss
considering how shady you're being about this topic, im totally not apologetic anymore for griefing ur minecraft house 7 yrs ago
you little shit that was my house!
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FrostByte
I'm gonna make it real big because people keep missing this, which is the entire point of the fucking thread:
if avatars can have a subconscious effect on how players will treat, perceive, or read a player, then how could you possibly argue having a colored name, like red, doesnt have a similar result?
@Voss
@Marshmallow Marshall
@Auwt
@Oberon
@yzb25
@aamirus
@Kenny
@rumox
That whole situation would've played out differently. It still hasn't been addressed. That whole thread was colored names blindly sticking up for each other with very little logic being applied to the situation.
They have an effect, I just don't think it gives the mods an unfair advantage per se. I believe I made my position clear before. Other forms of reputation have a much greater effect on the game like "being widely regarded as a pro", and sometimes being red can backfire if ppl use it to smear you. It's not like being a cop at all, I think that analogy was totally misplaced. If I had to compare, a mod signing for an FM game is a lot more like being a politician who's decided to take public transport with the plebs lmao. But even that analogy massively overstates the class divide.
I like anon games for the reasons ppl have stated, but I also like games that aren't anon because ppl's relationships and reptutations add another layer to the analysis. It can get taken too far though, certainly.
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
yzb25
They have an effect, I just don't think it gives the mods an unfair advantage per se. I believe I made my position clear before. Other forms of reputation have a much greater effect on the game like "being widely regarded as a pro", and sometimes being red can backfire if ppl use it to smear you. It's not like being a cop at all, I think that analogy was totally misplaced. If I had to compare, a mod signing for an FM game is a lot more like being a politician who's decided to take public transport with the plebs lmao. But even that analogy massively overstates the class divide.
I like anon games for the reasons ppl have stated, but I also like games that aren't anon because ppl's relationships and reptutations add another layer to the analysis. It can get taken too far though, certainly.
But as was pointed out, cops are different in different countries. Even in the UK I see a copper and I think "fuck fuck" even if I ain't done anything wrong LOL.
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
If I had to give an example of red backfiring, I remember many years ago Arrow being a red lead PTB to believe Arrow's bad play "had to be something deeper because they're red and all the reds have their shit together" even tho Arrow as a total noob at FM and was an admin concerned with sc2mafia. It didn't sway other ppl, but it got a vote on the train that lynched him. In PTB's defense, Arrow did flip scum
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
yzb25
They have an effect, I just don't think it gives the mods an unfair advantage per se. I believe I made my position clear before. Other forms of reputation have a much greater effect on the game like "being widely regarded as a pro", and sometimes being red can backfire if ppl use it to smear you. It's not like being a cop at all, I think that analogy was totally misplaced. If I had to compare, a mod signing for an FM game is a lot more like being a politician who's decided to take public transport with the plebs lmao. But even that analogy massively overstates the class divide.
I like anon games for the reasons ppl have stated, but I also like games that aren't anon because ppl's relationships and reptutations add another layer to the analysis. It can get taken too far though, certainly.
I 100% agree with this. I have never been affected by peoples red/blue/green colour. The only argument as I see it is that they could insinuate you would be breaking rules/getting infracted by playing in a certain way, and while I’ve seen them trying to ‘bring order’ to games, I don’t think I’ve ever seen that abused.
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
yzb25
But as was pointed out, cops are different in different countries. Even in the UK I see a copper and I think "fuck fuck" even if I ain't done anything wrong LOL.
same
but I guess I’m Eastern European and I have the Thief’s blood in my veins :)
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
yzb25
you little shit that was my house!
I remember back in 2010 I was playing the beta with some guys from a pro league scene and mentioned in a thread about Minecraft we ran west and set up a base. By heading west I mean we ran for literally 30 minutes while also traversing oceans. Some other guys from the scene joined the server and were so committed to trolling us they also spent 30 minutes or more looking for our base then proceeded to place bedrock everywhere and nuked our builds with TNT.
Good times. I became a pariah amongst the fellas for "leaking" our location. "aha went on to smash rumoxs shit and found job already done. tx"
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bruno
so if mm had been on an anonymous account
and mesk didnt know mm was, say, alt named X
mesk fucks up night action for X, resulting in X dying
how in the fuck could it ever possibly be assumed mesk intentionally fucked over X because mesk happened to know X was mm? lmfao
your analogies suck ass stop comparing yourself to police.
I'm not comparing myself, I'm comparing the situation actually. The different analogies I addressed depicted quite well the situation.
Okay I understand your in depth thought, yet your example also work for a non-staff player.
Just replace the name "MM" by "Bruno" and "Mesk" by "Host". And you would see it could also happen.
Therefore the only solve to your problem would be to only play full anonymous game, not only staff.
I'm not following this.
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
honestly I think this is a non-problem lol
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Re: staff should be anonymous in sfm
This post reflects the unanimous stance of FM staff after internal deliberations.
About the part of "subconscious bias due to colored names", I'm going to give a clear, unambiguous answer: no. We are not going to stop having colored names in games, and this decision is final. Here's why.
Does having a red or purple name affect how people subconsciously view us? Perhaps, to a very small extent. So does having literally every damn attribute. That includes having a signature (people will view you slightly differently if you put hostile posts in your signature or if you put a cute cat picture instead), having a post count (can be used to estimate your experience), having medals (which can inspire respect to newcomers and give a feeling that "this guy is good"; if I may add, it's not something users can willingly manipulate) and as was already mentioned, having an avatar. Does that mean we should forbid these things? The answer is no. It makes no big difference (personality does), and those things are useful and part of forum culture. Same goes for colored names, including staff ones (and I'd even say ESPECIALLY staff ones, since they make it obvious who's in charge of moderation and where). And even then, we give out colored names for FM Champions, aka ladder winners. People don't go and scream it "subconsciously biases them", come on. Literally EVERY MAFIA SITE has colored names for their staff, by the way, and nobody is "treating them differently because they have a colored name".
Also, remember that if staff members actually abuse their power, they are to be reported; nothing changed here.
Topic closed.