Fancy poem discussion / fakeness in society

I stumbled upon this poem thanks to people thinking they're wise and cultivated because they put poems everywhere. I don't even remember where I first found it lol. But here it is anyway, found it from the title: https://poetrying.wordpress.com/2010...y-robyn-sarah/

It very much seems to be about love relationships, but I think it can be extended to social relationships in general. It made me question the way people act towards eachother (or rather, it made this questioning more acute), always trying to avoid confrontation or disagreement to the point of diluting their messages or literally lying to people's face. I'm half including myself in "people" here, because while I try my best not to do that, sometimes it's hard to avoid and sometimes it just seems inappropriate and unavoidable (like at a funeral, for example). But here's my question: how much should we embrace this fakeness and how much should we reject it, and when/where? I think there's way too much of it in society, but rejecting it completely is probably unreasonable, so where's the line?

Poems are gay

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Originally Posted by Oberon

Poems are gay

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I didn't take you for the type of remarkableness to aptly describe poems in such an apt, simplified term.

Hm

I interpret the poem to be about a sentimental woman who is struggling to let go of a friendship she lost when things got romantic. Maybe there is something to be said about how her reluctance to confront the flower is just like the way people struggle to confront one another, and so our relationships stagnate rather than grow, due to the walls we put up... Is that what you mean?

Fakeness is a curious thing, imo. A lie can be extremely honest yet the truth can be extremely deceptive. Rather than seeing fakeness and honesty as a give and take, consider the possibility that they are not mutually exclusive? You can be simultaneously as fake as you need to be yet as honest with yourself as possible!

In other words, I think you should try to be exactly as honest as you feel comfortable being / feel is appropriate. If that means you behave honestly in a situation, then great. If that means you act utterly fake, you can still be completely forthright in your fakeness! Also, honesty is something that needs to be earned to a degree... I don't think it's fair to expect people to share their true feelings for free. I think what's bad is when people are fake for the sake of trying to impress others or needlessly suck up to them.

p;edit tho, something that I probably didn't emphasize enough in this whimsical post is that in many (err most) situations you have a responsibility to be honest. I am not trying to say you should lie for convenience then own it... that would be a bit sociopathic XD. I'm thinking of the funeral situation and stuff like that

covid-19

adam
had 'em

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poe...ne-boy-told-me

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Originally Posted by yzb25

Hm

I interpret the poem to be about a sentimental woman who is struggling to let go of a friendship she lost when things got romantic. Maybe there is something to be said about how her reluctance to confront the flower is just like the way people struggle to confront one another, and so our relationships stagnate rather than grow, due to the walls we put up... Is that what you mean?

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Yes, that is exactly what I mean. There is a level of depth never attained by a lot of people in any relationship imo, and that's what I'm talking about. I'm not saying everyone should completely open their hearts to random people in the streets xD.

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Originally Posted by yzb25

Fakeness is a curious thing, imo. A lie can be extremely honest yet the truth can be extremely deceptive. Rather than seeing fakeness and honesty as a give and take, consider the possibility that they are not mutually exclusive? You can be simultaneously as fake as you need to be yet as honest with yourself as possible!

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Uh... what
No, you can't both be honest and fake, these are opposites! Unless you're talking about lying in a way that still truly represents your real opinion, mindset, etc., in which case you're lying but are not being fake.

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Originally Posted by yzb25

In other words, I think you should try to be exactly as honest as you feel comfortable being / feel is appropriate. If that means you behave honestly in a situation, then great. If that means you act utterly fake, you can still be completely forthright in your fakeness! Also, honesty is something that needs to be earned to a degree... I don't think it's fair to expect people to share their true feelings for free. I think what's bad is when people are fake for the sake of trying to impress others or needlessly suck up to them.

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Yeah, I wasn't saying people should open their hearts to strangers, if that's what it looked like. But choosing to live a social lie constantly seems very superficial and unsatisfying to me.

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Originally Posted by yzb25

p;edit tho, something that I probably didn't emphasize enough in this whimsical post is that in many (err most) situations you have a responsibility to be honest. I am not trying to say you should lie for convenience then own it... that would be a bit sociopathic XD. I'm thinking of the funeral situation and stuff like that

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Well, it's probably safe to say a lot of people don't view honesty as a responsibility :P.

Ngl, I need to either get a better working memory or a pen and paper. Can't read 3 sentences without forgetting the previous ones and therefore not understanding the context.

Imagine stopping reading a poem not even halfway through because it's too much for your brain.
That's me and me.

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Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

Yes, that is exactly what I mean. There is a level of depth never attained by a lot of people in any relationship imo, and that's what I'm talking about. I'm not saying everyone should completely open their hearts to random people in the streets xD.



Uh... what
No, you can't both be honest and fake, these are opposites! Unless you're talking about lying in a way that still truly represents your real opinion, mindset, etc., in which case you're lying but are not being fake.

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You certainly can be honestly dishonest, or honest and fake. Well, not in a completely literal sense, of course. Sadly, sometimes being your authentic but good faith self is not enough - simply the knowledge of some aspect of your background or character may be enough to attract someone's malice. And if you want to be blunt and own that, awesome, but you're not obligated to do that all the time, imo. It's honest because I am completely open about the fact I would do such a thing or advise someone else to, and I have no moral qualms with it. It probably does damage your ability to form meaningful relationships, but that can't always be helped.

There's also obviously white lies. If someone you barely know asks you if their breath stinks, I think you're perfectly in your rights to shrug and say "can't smell a thing". Or refraining from mentioning what you may truly think at a funeral, of course. Again, you can be honest in your dishonesty and own these things. It's not something to be ashamed of imo.

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Originally Posted by MM

Yeah, I wasn't saying people should open their hearts to strangers, if that's what it looked like. But choosing to live a social lie constantly seems very superficial and unsatisfying to me.



Well, it's probably safe to say a lot of people don't view honesty as a responsibility :P.

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There is a type of person that can't form genuine emotional connections with others because they're needlessly trying to present themselves as someone bigger than they really are. That's definitely wrong. I certainly don't support that either.

...Maybe my post was badly worded and we don't actually disagree about anything. I did think as I hit the post button "yep this is definitely gonna be misconstrued as me being pro lying but fuck it I'm in too deep!" XD

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Originally Posted by yzb25

You certainly can be honestly dishonest, or honest and fake. Well, not in a completely literal sense, of course. Sadly, sometimes being your authentic but good faith self is not enough - simply the knowledge of some aspect of your background or character may be enough to attract someone's malice. And if you want to be blunt and own that, awesome, but you're not obligated to do that all the time, imo. It's honest because I am completely open about the fact I would do such a thing or advise someone else to, and I have no moral qualms with it. It probably does damage your ability to form meaningful relationships, but that can't always be helped.

There's also obviously white lies. If someone you barely know asks you if their breath stinks, I think you're perfectly in your rights to shrug and say "can't smell a thing". Or refraining from mentioning what you may truly think at a funeral, of course. Again, you can be honest in your dishonesty and own these things. It's not something to be ashamed of imo.



There is a type of person that can't form genuine emotional connections with others because they're needlessly trying to present themselves as someone bigger than they really are. That's definitely wrong. I certainly don't support that either.

...Maybe my post was badly worded and we don't actually disagree about anything. I did think as I hit the post button "yep this is definitely gonna be misconstrued as me being pro lying but fuck it I'm in too deep!" XD

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Bloody lying wanker!

𝓜𝔂 𝓭𝓮𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓼𝓽 𝓫𝓻𝓸𝓽𝓱𝓮𝓻, 𝓘 𝔀𝓻𝓲𝓽𝓮 𝓽𝓸 𝔂𝓸𝓾 𝓲𝓷 𝓭𝓮𝓮𝓹 𝓶𝓮𝓵𝓪𝓷𝓬𝓱𝓸𝓵𝔂. 𝓘𝓽 𝓪𝓹𝓹𝓮𝓪𝓻𝓼 𝓽𝓸 𝓶𝓮 𝓽𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓽𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓲𝓼𝓷'𝓽 𝓪𝓷𝔂 𝓬𝓸𝓬𝓴 𝓵𝓮𝓯𝓽.

𝓑𝓻𝓸𝓽𝓱𝓮𝓻 𝓘 𝓻𝓮𝓬𝓮𝓲𝓿𝓮𝓭 𝔂𝓸𝓾𝓻 𝓶𝓮𝓼𝓼𝓪𝓰𝓮 𝔀𝓮𝓵𝓵. 𝓘𝓽 𝓮𝔁𝓬𝓲𝓽𝓮𝓼 𝓶𝓮 𝓽𝓸 𝓲𝓷𝓯𝓸𝓻𝓶 𝔂𝓸𝓾 𝓪𝓫𝓸𝓾𝓽 𝓪 𝓬𝓸𝓬𝓴 𝓻𝓮𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓿𝓮, 𝓯𝓻𝓮𝓽 𝓷𝓸𝓽, 𝓬𝓸𝓬𝓴 𝔀𝓲𝓵𝓵 𝓫𝓮 𝓼𝓮𝓷𝓽 𝔂𝓸𝓾𝓻 𝔀𝓪𝔂 𝓼𝓸𝓸𝓷!