honestly tho I dont think this mafia victory was deserved. Dallarian bitched out the moment the town was forming a consensus against him to let a veteran wipe the fucking floor with us. Unfair for a noobs game.
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honestly tho I dont think this mafia victory was deserved. Dallarian bitched out the moment the town was forming a consensus against him to let a veteran wipe the fucking floor with us. Unfair for a noobs game.
GG. I was surprised by some of you guys' styles and skills. Special props to @MartinGG99 and @bakermir . And good job to others too of course ^^ this game was very rich and of a pretty good level, even per non-newbie game standards.
Anyway I want to say a few things.
First, this was an absolutely exhilarating way to experience my first full, complete mafia game. Thank you so much to everyone for being a part of it.
I genuinely believe that most players did a great job on the town side.
Martin, I was incredibly impressed with your astounding level of Want It More, your analysis, and your work ethic. If I weren’t a wolf I would have lock town read you and never looked back.
Bakemir, my read on you was legit. You were the towniest town I could imagine, to the point I couldn’t consider faking otherwise like I did with Martin. He just posted so much stuff it was easy to find one or two things to pull at.
Renegade, I hoped you were a power role, but I killed you first because you scared me the most.
Auwt, you were the one to see through me. Well done.
Grakylan, you all but nailed the scum team at the start of d2. Hold your head high.
Drizzt, your sincerity shone through your posts to a point that it was really hard to convince others to go against you, despite the perceived mechanical situation.
Dallarian and DW, you guys were amazing partners and DW in particular played the harder role Under pressure. I’m so proud to share this win with you.
And lastly a big thank you to SuperJack for hosting this game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown1234
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Originally Posted by Varcron
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Originally Posted by deathworlds
They're all here to collect meta data D=Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall
Thanks, any constructive criticism? Usually I do the sandwich approach. Compliment, Criticism, Compliment- but you can skip that and just tell me how I can play better :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Lael
I really liked your style ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Drizzt
also this was my lw if anyone cares
Spoiler : SPOILER :
I am having internet issues past 2 hours and that is the reason why I was missing near the end.
Unlucky stuff.
still GG to all and a big thanks to my mentor Varcron here for helping me learn some FM. I really appreciated his mentoring and totally recommend it anyone.
I am also glad SJ and Dallarian invited me to this beginner game. Too bad Dallarian had to step out and we were left with uncertain. Still, can't blame SJ and Dallarian here. I believe Dallarian must have his reason and SJ tried his best to solve these issues.
Another line on SJ; I believe he have done a lot to make this go smooth for all of us. Everything is well thought and he managed everything perfectly. I personally enjoyed playing a few mod games with him but I will always appreciate SJ to the moon and back, that he have shown the FM world to me and there could be no better introduction. I am glad to meet such a nice person. Really, cheers SJ!
GG to everyone here. Even if you dislike me or my play, I tried my best. I love the fact that people aren't getting toxic. I would be happy to play another FM game as soon as one becomes available or I am invited to. I have no idea how it works.
edit: fixing spoiler tag
Yeah well I can't get better at not giving things to pull at without experience first, so I'm quite thankful to have you here, scum or not. Some of those questions I never expected.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Lael
I’ve got some other games that I’m committed to first! I’m playing a reunion game for Game 8 right now and after that I have to do another one from another lost bet on Forum of Loathing.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperJack
After that, who knows. I might need a break from mafia, it’s pretty emotionally exhausting! But a great time.
ggs!! its hard to win as town;(
i hope this doesn't discourage anyone from playing future games, hope to see u for instant mafia after the Magellan game :3
Read the thread, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drizzt
also SuperJack smells like spotted dick
bakermir admits to editingQuote:
Originally Posted by bakermir
go get em SJ
(jk)
Are you saying read the whole thread next time, or that you already posted criticism in a post?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Lael
I only know what that is because of Harry Potter. I still gigle inside when I hear it. Crazy Brits.Quote:
Originally Posted by naz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drizzt
I like to think if this was a SC2 mod game and not FM; you and Helltanis played the citizen role perfectly. I can't find any criticism to that. It seemed pretty solid to me from FM perspective but vets of FM would know better ;)
I never felt you doubted me, and by your playing I thought you WERE a vet lol. As I said, losing doesn't matter, especially if we failed as a team. Fall down, get back up.Quote:
Originally Posted by bakermir
I mean, read what has happened before you came into the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drizzt
I found your unawareness of the situation useful, it helped me push the idea of you as a dumb wolf claiming citizen when your partner already did so. Without that, I might have had a harder time selling that there were two wolves in the citizens.
Oh yea, gotcha. I'm loaded with stuff to read before Fall Semester, so I had to prioritize my reading time and given that I was a sub, I admit I was lazy. I relied heavily upon Martin's data dumps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Lael
Some general advice for everyone,
consider EVERY possibility, I think that's the most valuable takeaway from this game.
Here's what the role list was posted as
Mafia Any
Mafia Any
Town Any
Town Any
Town Any
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Everyone assumed the "Town Any" would be rolled as TPR, when it was entirely possible they could be rolled as citizen, hell it was entirely possible it would've been a vanilla game with just mafioso and citizens.
As Mafia, Ash, dall, and I considered the possibility of splitting up our claims, so we avoid being in the same lynch box (boxing up groups of people for lynches is a totally valid thing to do btw bake). Instead of it being a 2v4, we were thinking it would be a 1v3 and a 1v3 at worst, which makes it much more difficult for town to pin down the scum.
Regardless, as an experienced host on this site setup balance principles tells us that the town and the scum should have a roughly equal amount of power roles, the amount of kills that can be performed by scum should be able to be countered by town via protectives (bus drivers, escorts, doctors, etc), and the amount of investigative ability should be matched (consig, agent, framer vs detective, sheriff, lookout). Having an extra TPR would make this setup much more favorable to town.
Yes this is setup/host meta, but it's a valid tool to be used by any player.
Finally: my plan when I fakeclaimed:
I had no idea that there were only two town power roles. I was expecting to face another claim alongside Grak. My plan was, in a 3/4 split, to argue for a lynch in the power roles and to thunderdome down Grak on day 2, and then in mylo when I was facing the last PR and trying to do it again, for Dallarian to lead the charge against me by linking me to Martin.
The case I had laid was that I would always come out at him hard at the start of the day and then find some reason to get off him when it came time to lynch and that I would come up with bullshit reasons to town read or scum read him at any given moment that suited me best and that we continued to always be friendly even after my very savage attacks on him. Dall would argue that this was all an elaborate distancing play from audacious wolf, as if I was lynched, I would have been proven to be. I hoped that along with Bakemir’s tunnel on Martin we could send them into the f3 and lynch Martin there if I couldn’t get the job done in the f5.
Instead I got lucky. Without that luck, I think I still had a winning game plan, but I can’t complain with how it went lol.
I also considered the mass claim the best strategy for town, I saw that town was starting to come towards that conclusion with lots of time left in the day, so I decided to get ahead of it and try to claim some credibility by being the one pushing for it firstly, and secondly by pushing for a lynch in my own group.
One final thing;
I don't feel any regrets with my votes. I think it was a progressive, best case scenario for a shittizen. I just don't understand why Martin believed I could be a beguiler liek Auwt. There was a mafia kill ;/
I honestly wanted to lynch either Martin or DW and I was leaning more towards Martin simply because of Grakylan's lw I felt like I should listen to. Grakylan provided me a safe place and spoiled me greatly lol also DW's vote on him for two days in a row made me have a pause with him.
I wanted to see the vote counts between Martin and DW then maybe possibly Drizzt today. I told myself to not think about Ash/Grak until it is 1v2. I was so fuckin confident we had this today. Like I was certain the evil were going to try their best but then DW gave himself away with spiderman meme pretty good. I believe this was the right strategy for me but unfortunately I lost internet at that key voting moment and expected other townies to not leave votes on people. I think that was a very wrong play from town.
I could have ended up voting Martin and losing but I would feel less shitty. I could have ended up voting DW and see what happens tomorrow. damn, it feels horrible to be robbed off like this. I hope the importance of votes on lylo is not forgotten next time. I had no plans of leading the votes today and just let it happen naturally.
To be honest I was sick of being alive at MYLO, I've been there for three games in a row, and that's all it really devolved into. I probably would have done the same thing as town.Quote:
Originally Posted by bakermir
Otherwise yes, it is a disadvantageous play to stick your vote down without considering every single possibility when scum could, in theory, turbohammer.
Quote:
Regardless, as an experienced host on this site setup balance principles tells us that the town and the scum should have a roughly equal amount of power roles, the amount of kills that can be performed by scum should be able to be countered by town via protectives (bus drivers, escorts, doctors, etc), and the amount of investigative ability should be matched (consig, agent, framer vs detective, sheriff, lookout). Having an extra TPR would make this setup much more favorable to town.
I always considered 1 TPR being citizen but very small chances. I didn't know the setup principle would be like you describe it now. Wish I figured this out earlier tbh
I purposely left it out earlier when I was talking about setup balance D2, because that would've probably outed ash and that would have been disadventagous.Quote:
Originally Posted by bakermir
For the sake of learning here's the post that discusses the game that is the holy grail of forum mafia
Well, it's over.
Town have all chance to win. It was obvious that you need to exclude all non-voters on me from susp list (as I said, mafia will 100% vote me). Also, as I said, last one voting me will be mafia. Auwt called mafia team at the start of d2. He was strong town and all you need is just follow him ans win, but... No words. Well, my bad that I left no lw, after reading it Auwt, Grak and Barkermir probably push last one voted me (Dallarian) and probably win after.
Town team, from best to worst
@Auwt. MVP of this match. His conclusions were always logical and correct, he perfectly understood the game, it was obvious that he was townie.For others: If you see good player trying to lead you, just take your ego away and follow his leads next time. If there is some MVP reward, you deserved it.
@Grakylan I know he is realy good player in mod, but his start was like semi-afk. He posted almost nothing, voted me in last seconds for no reason, like second scum after Dallarian. His awakening d2 makes me feel like town will win now. Idk why he didn't follow Auwt, this team probably will be stong. Well, I am happy to have this game with you.
@Bakermir Smart and attentive man, but overly cautious. Well, mostly you did well, nothing to say, but town had chance to solve the game if you claimed your role d2. Anyway, you were good, and it was nice to play with you.
@Drizzt haven't played with you, sorry, almost nothing to say. Looks like you are good, but continue someone's game is terrible I think.
@Helltanis Did almost nothing and dissapeared. Well, nothing is still better then harm. I realy have nothing to say.
@Renegade Player of that type who can't think wider and planning 1-2 speps forward. "If I don’t understand something, then this is stupid". You are wrong, but you don't accept it, that's why you are wrong twice. As result what is your contribution to the game? You lynched citizen, healed mafia and died. Very useful, lol. I agree, I don't want to play with you... in the same team ;)
@MartinGG99 The Absolute Missleader of this game. Every his conclusion was a mistake. Every his lead was wrong. Well, it's okay, if that was the only problem. But second problem is enormous ovespamming with 3,4,5 missleading posts in a row. In IRL mafia there is turn order, so everyone can speak out. You give no chance for town to listen more competent, attentive and smart players, brought chaos with bad and unfounded assumptions. You pushing your erroneous point of view and you don't even try to stop, because you realy want to lead the town, no matter the cost. The cost was town losing. Hope you will learn something from this, and you will change quantity to quality, and will be fine to play with you next time.
Mafia team
@Ash Lael you played good and fooled town a lot, like mafia must do. Well done. But for me Auwt played better, sorry. All mafia need is follow the Ultimate Missleader, town was realy harder to play.
@Dallarian well, for me your play was dirty. You made a lot of mistakes during d1 and ... just swapped yourself with your mentor. Like fight in lightweight and then exchange yourself for Mike Tyson. You don't left the game, I see, you staying in mentor chat and commenting everything happens in game, while mentor fixing your mistakes.
@Deathworlds well, as I said, fixed Dallarian mistakes and helps Martin to lead town to hell. You did well, yes. But that replacement ruined the game a bit. That was frustrating.
Also, thank you, @SuperJack , for game. Mostly I had fun :)
I admit, I haven't done much reading on FM. It was all YOLO based on what experience I have from mod and party games. Thanks for the linkQuote:
Originally Posted by deathworlds
Ignore anti town zebus.
We all start somewhere :) I hope ya stick around for some more games!Quote:
Originally Posted by bakermir
Looking forward to them!Quote:
Originally Posted by deathworlds
Who are you to speak about that? You can't even type 5 letters correctly, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade
I am me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zedus
I did hunt for other TPR's as soon as your claim came in. I also tried to use Grakylan's read on me and use it as a strategy Auwt described as "Putting yourself between tpr/citizen, being immune to both". My push on Grakylan prior to all of that made me look as suspicious as possible. I was half jokingly baiting scum around that time since Dallarian/Helltanis were unresponsive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Lael
When I made that post with :gun: I hoped for two scenarios;
a) you are tpr and I try to protect you
b) you or graky is evil and put paranoia in mafia
Nobody claiming TPR made things go bleak for town and great for mafia. High risk - high reward strategy there Ash.
Also the fake claim immediately ended the conversation that was revolving around suspicions about Dallarian. So it had that benefit. I knew I was better at handling pressure so I intentionally sought to bring it away from him and onto myself.
Out of curiosity, what made you lean towards claiming veteran as your TPR?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Lael
And yeah Bekamir you nearly did WIFOM me into killing you instead of Grak. I had to reread your posts a bunch of times to be confident in reading you as citizen rather than unclaimed power role. It was a good strategy to deal with the 2 TPR world, but you needed to project that hidden TPR thing more consistently. There were times where it was absolutely clear that you thought me and Grak were the only power roles.
To give myself an excuse to be alive in the f3 instead of Bakemir if town was insistent on lynching DW. I was projecting I’d gone on alert and whiffed, in the f3 I’d say oh, they must have thought that was a fake out or something?” And a spent veteran is no threat anyway, unlike some other roles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown1234
The one thing about your claim that I was hoping to see play out was why nobody had died to you in either of the first two nights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Lael
Renegade had tried to heal you n1, if you didn’t alert n1 (which wouldn’t be that surprising, although this kind of setup doesn’t last a long time) then would that have meant you alerted n2. In the case you only alerted n2, then it would have been interesting that the 2nd mafia role (the one not killing) Hadn’t interacted with you since they had no knowledge of your role. I don’t think they would have thought about a veteran existing though, since it’s the only role that really could hurt visitors.
Still a good role to claim considering it doesn’t clash with too many TI or TP, and can cause just as much bad as it could good. Would have liked to see where you would have taken the claim in a situation like this.
Yeah if I was questioned my story was that I holstered night 1 as I thought I would either get doctored or the scum would doc-dodge me. I went on alert n2 hoping to get the power role scum if not the killer. And then I would go into speculation about what might have happened. Did they read me? Did they put a consigliere on me n1 and therefore know my role? Etc, etc.
Let me explain why I have left the game.
I took the game very seriously and it influenced me. It made me very stressed. The longer I played, the more I thought about FM, and was tired in mental way. I came to a moment where I spent hours on reading thread and couldn't get any conclusion. It also influenced my behaviour IRL, I was angry and vexed all the time. There was also more into that.
Game came to the point when it literally too dangerous for me to play.
My firsts thoughts about leaving the game were on EoD D1.
I spoke with DW and he suggested me speaking about it with SJ.
But do not worry. For mentioned reasons I am unable to play FM anymore, so we will not meet again @Grakylan . I am happy SJ created situation when this happened in newbie friendly game, rather than something bigger and more serious.
After I left I felt relieved from the stress and not only, so it didn't prevent me from following the game.
Well, gg everyone actually, I really liked playing this game with all of you.
I want to make a post explaining how I saw each of you ^_^
@SuperJack - I should thank you because its was originally thank to you that I came back to this forum, I really loved being part of this game. You were a great host, and your recruitments are magical, for real xD . Thanks a lot for all your work you've put into organizing this game !
@Ash Lael - You managed to be out of the radar for most of the game, you were townread by almost everyone, thats a great game for you. I wouldnt have claimed Veteran tho, because Renegade went on you N1, and I feel like if you were really a Veteran, you would have alerted N1 because you had 50% chance of killing a Mafia when you notice an intruder. Overall you had a great game, and even though our methods might be different, I really liked playing with you. You are a good manipulative and trustful looking guy. We could have maybe won that if you were town sided actually :D.
@bakermir - I guess I have to apologize because of the tunnel I did toward you : ( . I knew extra Citizen could be a thing when SJ told me, but I didnt expect him to really roll another Citizen, because that would have made the game way harder for Town, but he did :D . Anyway I'm very sorry that we misunderstood each other. At some point It was really clear for me that you could have been a Beguiler but my focus on you made Ash coast a lot D2 and I didnt even realize it through D2. Fully my bad. As a Citizen you manage to defend quite well still ! Was a nice game to play with you!
@Dallarian - Its kinda sad you had to leave during the solving stage, but I understand FM is very time consumming and everyone can have their own reasons ! Had a lot of fun playing this with you. Even if you wont play FM anymore, your D1 was really clean. I had trouble either putting you on scum list because of inclusivity or town list because your posts were so well made ! Thank you for joining me in this game Dallarian.
@deathworlds - The little we played together, you gave me a chance to explain myself and prepared a later hammer. Even as a late Mafia member, you managed to send me good townie vibes. I was more ready to vote Ash because of his vote decisions than yours. I believe experience was part of it, but this was a great scum sub, congrats !
@Drizzt (+ @Helltanis ) - I mostly townread you before (when Helltanis was in the place), you became one of the most active players to balance the early lack of content from Helltanis. I'm not blaming Helltanis at all, I just feel like Helltanis wasnt much into the game and probably got bored of playing this. In a newbie game I can really understand it.
Anyway Drizzt has been a quite late sub who wasnt reading the thread until he came (DW was flying over the thread sometimes because of mentoring). Thats quite impressive and i know what I'm talking about (I was dropped in a 60 pages game as a sub scum on my first game lol). You have amazingly worked to try to make an opinion, and I hope you had fun with this 'short' game !
@Grakylan - Your town play and implication in the game were really great. I have townread you since the begining of the game, and I still believe this choice was good to make.
We kept thinking alike, and by that reasons, I would have never voted you. I'm still quite sad that I made you investigate bakermir N1 because of Zedus flipping townie :( .
I do not have much to say, your play were very townie like and you woke up so hardly D2. Yeah actually your D2 was very clean !
@Martin - Your maths/stat thingy in the early stage were a bit uh. But the work you made, considering the excel thing and very long posts with decisive reasoning (the ones with spoilers on each of us), the number of posts (even though some were still unecessary lol) led me to think that you were a Citizen. You have put so much work into this.
Even though you didnt really spot the real Maf members, your sense of the game was incredible, this is the idea I have about a real Citizen that should look like in all fm/mod game honestly. I guess more experience will come with more FM games, still a strong first time Martin, congrats !
@Renegade - Your early plays made me think you were scum, but in the late D1, you answered each of my question will a lot of assurance, and persuasivity !
You reacted a lot to each of us. When I saw Zedus flip townie, I knew it was either you or Dallarian that would die. Funny enough I told it was a 50/50 but since Dallarian was a scum, weeeeeelll... Yeah, anyway even if you healed Ash, that wasnt a misplay. You couldnt have healed anyone in this situation since you were the target, no worries on that Renegade. Moreover because of your lw saying you were on Ash, I tend to think Ash revealing Veteran would have been seen as a scum.
I swear if Ash claimed Veteran D2, I would have instantly voted him, because of Renegade's night action. I really liked the way you played this game !
@Zedus - Your D1 early game was a bit weird, but when some of us started to think about you, you managed to convince me enough not to vote you. When I realized nobody was about to defend you, I saw a powerless Citizen. Even though you claimed power, I'm still seeing this as a great play.
Because of your lynch (and im very sorry I didnt make it in time in order to helping you :/ .) I started having some doubt toward Ash discrediting my vote. If you flipped scum I would have trusted Ash. But you didnt, and by that meaning, you led me to think a possible Ash scum that I explained in my 2nd post D2. Your lynch was still shameful honestly, I agree with you on that point ! Even if some players might think you did something bad claiming power, when you werent, I believe that was the right thing to do, in case you would survive to D2, luring a potential scum on you, a Consort for instance... Great game from you Zedus !
I hope I forgot noone, and with this, I also want to say, that I'm really looking forward to seeing you play more FM games !
Thanks a lot for this game, I really had fun playing this with you.
Good Game everyone!
Why did I just get thanked?
I baited you into writing in the thread to check SuperJack's reaction and be able to predict how far I can move in rulebreaking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyrlander
Not really. I believe both Auwt and me (in the PM from me) have explained it.
Also you have cute Probe ♥
SJ should get the MVP for making this happen.
I don't know who else to nominate. Everyone did fine on their own imo so gj all
Maybe we all play another game sometime soon FeelsBirthdayMan
Next game after Magellan is going to be Naz's one day 6vs2 I believe. 72 day time, lynch on D1 ends the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by bakermir
And after that there will be probably ladder Spirits II, very cool setup I wanted to take part in, but I cannot :/
Oh hey this ended
Grats scum