Bus Driver, Mass Murderer and Deceiver end up getting non-visiting player (Coroner) killed in spree?

Setup:
Night 1 (Replay timestamp ~3:10)

Player	Role	Action
4	Deceiver	Hide behind 6
5	Coroner	None
6	Bus Driver	Swap 4 and 5
9	Mass Murderer	Spree at 6's house

Result:
Both 4(Deceiver) and 5(Coroner) are killed from Mass Murderer spree. Bus driver is not.

Bug?
5, the Coroner, should not have been killed by the Mass Murderer. It seems that when the Bus Driver swapped the position of 4 and 5, that caused 5 to "visit" 4. That "visit" was then redirected with the Deceiver's ability to go to 6's house. Since 5 stayed home, it should be expected that his inaction wouldn't result in him "visiting" 6's house.

Attachment 27935

based game. ban frinckles and elixir now!!

smart of u to figure that out too. ufu and it looks so well-laid out too owo uwu, uwowu hewwo uwu, uwu uwu

!!!

Okay I think I've arrived at the only logical conclusion. I think in order for what happened to happen.

The deceivers misdirection triggers first causing all abilities directed at 4 to switch, because I targeted 4 first into 5. That means my first visit targets myself, which means I visited myself, but due to deceiver fuckery I also didn't visit myself. I existed in a quantum state where I both visited 4 but didn't visit 4, and visited myself but also didn't visit myself. In this quantum state I swapped myself with 5. This redirected 6s Mass Murderer attack onto 5. So after killing 4 who was hiding inside my house, 6 was pushed over to murder 5 at his house. 6 Murdered both people in a rage because he was angry he did not find me, due to me not existing.

The one problem with akaskrs theory is that if 4s ability was transfered over to 5, causing both to in essence visit my house, then I as the bus driver should have also died, because bus drivers always come home at the end of the night to be with their kids. Thus the only plausible theory is the quantum state theory.

For real though this replay was very strange. If someone can correct me if I wrong though, but I have always believed bus drivers will die, even if they transport 2 other people that aren't them. This is true right?

Due to deceiver, BD swaps 6w5.
Due to BD, MM visits 5.
5 has to die because 5 is at home.

My best guess about 4 dying is that the BD-Deceiver interaction created a loop and 4 ended up in 5s house.

The 2 paragraphs are contradicting each other though?

The Mass Murderer is not affected by the Bus Driver's swapping.
At least that is something stated on the rolecard box.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OzyWho

Due to deceiver, BD swaps 6w5.
Due to BD, MM visits 5.
5 has to die because 5 is at home.

My best guess about 4 dying is that the BD-Deceiver interaction created a loop and 4 ended up in 5s house.

The 2 paragraphs are contradicting each other though?

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If you watch the replay, both 4 and 5 receive the "A bus driver gave you a ride to someplace else" message. So even it's true that the Deceiver's ability made the Bus Driver swap himself, this would still be a bug, because that would mean that a player is receiving that message when they weren't actually swapped (and, therefore, a player is also swapped who did not receive that message).

I believe MM attacks everyone who got swapped.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by akask8r1

because that would mean that a player is receiving that message when they weren't actually swapped (and, therefore, a player is also swapped who did not receive that message).

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Wouldn't be the first time.
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...ch-Veteran-Bug

Actually this works as intended.
MM isn't affected by BD, whilst both 4 and 5 are at 6s place.

Same mechanic:
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...with-target-MM
Nvm I feel stupid.

I think if the setup were to change so that the deceiver and MM both target a 5th, non-actioning role, it would tell us more about what is happening. If the coroner still dies, then that would mean that a BD+Deceiver can cause a player that takes no action to actually end up visiting someone. If the coroner does not die, then there is some loop getting created with BD+Deceiver that ends up with the wrong players getting the "You were bussed" messages.

Is there any easy way to set up a game with multiple roles to test scenarios solo? Would the only way be to create multiple accounts and multibox?

I don't think there is one. I'd be willing to help you try and replicate this if we can get more people.

After years with no mechanic updates, it's probably not a bug, right? That's just the way the game is intended to resolve.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Voss

After years with no mechanic updates, it's probably not a bug, right? That's just the way the game is intended to resolve.

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there is definitely some bug. See this thread: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...+doused+people
where arsonist douses himself.
However, tracking down the bug would be very difficult, especially since there is some designed randomness in how the night sequence plays out when target switchers get involved.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aamirus

there is definitely some bug. See this thread: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...+doused+people
where arsonist douses himself.
However, tracking down the bug would be very difficult, especially since there is some designed randomness in how the night sequence plays out when target switchers get involved.

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@aamirus
Isn't what happend in this game same what happend in that link I posted earlier; where elixir explained how it works and that it's intended?
Tbh, it's a bit too complicated for me to understand it for some reason. :cheesy:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aamirus

there is definitely some bug. See this thread: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...+doused+people
where arsonist douses himself.
However, tracking down the bug would be very difficult, especially since there is some designed randomness in how the night sequence plays out when target switchers get involved.

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i'm more musing over the meaning of the word "bug" here :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OzyWho

@aamirus
Isn't what happend in this game same what happend in that link I posted earlier; where elixir explained how it works and that it's intended?
Tbh, it's a bit too complicated for me to understand it for some reason. :cheesy:

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https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...with-target-MM
That one is working as intended. There are no weird action loops there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aamirus

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...with-target-MM
That one is working as intended. There are no weird action loops there.

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And this one is different, yeah?
Sorry, probably a dumb question.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Voss

i'm more musing over the meaning of the word "bug" here :)

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i mean fair enough, there isn't really a satisfactory way to resolve these situations. luckily they are not very common

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OzyWho

And this one is different, yeah?
Sorry, probably a dumb question.

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this one has the loop of bus driver swapping a deceiver who is redirecting to bus driver.

like swaps 4-5 but 4 redirects to 6 so now you swap 6-5 - but now since 4 isn't involved anymore the next run would swap 4-5 again