S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

That alleged N1 self-swap with Frinckles still makes no sense to me. Martin CLEARLY believed Frinckles was likely town, so he's just swapping the DH kill from one town to another. Saying it would help showing Frinckles is town is just BS. So what if the DH thinks Frinckles is town?

When reading through his posts with a lens of "If he's DH, why is he posting this?" makes a good deal of sense. BD is a good cover because it doesn't leave much in the way of feedback. Not trying to draw out D1 and get that BD hammered before the rush peters out helps triad. Shooting your strongest townread makes sense. Only townreading people and not having scumreads makes sense because you don't want to make enemies.

If I had to yeet someone right now, it would be Martin 100%. But I hope I get to finish reading all of his posts first, AND get to Unknown's posts before pulling the trigger.

lol imagine if we had a switcher this game SmugPepe

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Originally Posted by Frinckles

lol imagine if we had a switcher this game SmugPepe

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From all the claims I'd assume we had like 4 of them this game.

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Originally Posted by MattZed

That alleged N1 self-swap with Frinckles still makes no sense to me. Martin CLEARLY believed Frinckles was likely town, so he's just swapping the DH kill from one town to another. Saying it would help showing Frinckles is town is just BS.

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Would you mind explaining to me what you would've expected of a bus driver for N1 so I can avoid this mistake in the future?

Because this is the first time I am a TPR in my mafia career so far. Only other time I was PR was the omega wolf in that Wolf Spirits II game.

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

Would you mind explaining to me what you would've expected of a bus driver for N1 so I can avoid this mistake in the future?

Because this is the first time I am a TPR in my mafia career so far. Only other time I was PR was the omega wolf in that Wolf Spirits II game.

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Bus yourself with your strongest scumread OR bus your strongest townread with your strongest scumread.

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Originally Posted by MattZed

Bus yourself with your strongest scumread OR bus your strongest townread with your strongest scumread.

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Sooooo basically never do it on anything relating to consensus or anybody else's input

got it

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

Sooooo basically never do it on anything relating to consensus or anybody else's input

got it

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Kinda ironic tbh since there were messages like these on D1

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Busdriver IMO should play the beginning of the game as if they are citizen. The setup has the potential to be chaotic enough as it is, I don't see much benefit to bussing anything that isn't a confirmed town role.

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telling me to do nothing and be a citizen instead of a PR

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

Kinda ironic tbh since there were messages like these on D1

telling me to do nothing and be a citizen instead of a PR

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Y'know, let the bad guys handle the chaos

and not the good guys never have control or influence of it

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

Kinda ironic tbh since there were messages like these on D1



telling me to do nothing and be a citizen instead of a PR

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When the thought was to remove the switcher by having them become someone and outing them was in the argument, that is arguably a better play. What you did is neither of those options.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

When the thought was to remove the switcher by having them become someone and outing them was in the argument, that is arguably a better play. What you did is neither of those options.

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Yes because I disagreed with the town having less proportional amount of information control during the night

every role, even if they don't produce feedback, does effectively give knowledge to the townies at night as to what happen

and with LW's (if they die) and the capacity to open-claim as BD to resolve any issues that pop up

I believed that outweighed the potential costs you were implying

I've re-read all of Martin's and Unknown's posts and I've made my decision.

We're yeeting Martin

Martin... didn't even scumhunt until D3/4, and even then only barely. Spends a lot of time townreading people but doesn't try to find anyone as scum. Very much fits the profile of a shy scum not wanting to risk outing teammates.

Unknown by contrast spends a LOT of time scumhunting, actively trying to read people. Very actively focuses on who is being genuine, and votes in response to that. I actually find Unknown rather transparent on a re-read. He's perhaps my top non-confirmed townread atm.

Unknown's roleclaim is actually much more believable: He random-voted yzb in HIS FIRST POST and consistently townread yzb. Martin... CC'd someone who turned out to not be lying. He's gotten way too much credit for claiming a role no one has been able to verify.
@Unknown1234 , regardless of your alignment, you've played this game very well. If you're town, I really see it and your contributions. If you're triad, then you did an excellent job fooling me. Thank-you for joining this game.

-vote MartinGG99

If you like sheeping confirmed town, sheep me now.
@Frinckles @Helz @naz @FrostByte @Renegade

How to interpret the flip:

1. If Martin flips DH, we're in a good 5v2. Hard to say who's who, but I would VERY strongly suspect Helz is CA in this case. (@naz, keep this in mind if you're town)
2. If Martin flips CA, then actually Unknown is the DH and we just had the craziest Scum vs. Scum I'm seen in a while
3. If Martin flips any other triad role, Unknown is the DH, Helz is the CA, and we've basically won.
4. If Martin flips Bus Driver, WHOOPS. Unknown is DH and Helz is probably CA.
5. If Martin was bound to another triad, yay?
6. If Martin was bound to another town, idk. Make night actions carefully.


@FrostByte , I hope it goes without saying that you should be in bodyguard mode tonight if you're town.

@naz , you control your night actions, but it's hard for me to see you watching someone OTHER than Helz tonight.

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Originally Posted by MattZed

4. If Martin flips Bus Driver, WHOOPS. Unknown is DH and Helz is probably CA.

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We're in a 5v3.......

Its quite irritating that you just frame it as a "WHOOPS"

@Renegade

Please don't lock his house

@Unknown1234

please kill him


Thanks!!!

We've been in a 5v3 discussion the entire time... The only reason you're concerned about it now is because he's lynching the right person lol.

smh

being yeeted just because he disagrees with my mechanical night action choices for N1 and that it conveniently fits the DH targeting

I suppose this is how its supposed to go when a guy is really into that sort of thing for FM

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

We've been in a 5v3 discussion the entire time... The only reason you're concerned about it now is because he's lynching the right person lol.

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CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THE ANGER AND IRRITATION IN MY CHOICE OF WORDS

MY GOD.

Sure, its just a game but this is really a let-down of MattZed in my perspective

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

smh

being yeeted just because he disagrees with my mechanical night action choices for N1 and that it conveniently fits the DH targeting

I suppose this is how its supposed to go when a guy is really into that sort of thing for FM

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Honestly it's not even just that.

You were way too concerned with people seeing your claim as true, played very passively and constantly 'accepting other peoples reads' as your own. In hindsight we probably should have realized you were triad a long time ago had it not been for your claim.

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

smh

being yeeted just because he disagrees with my mechanical night action choices for N1 and that it conveniently fits the DH targeting

I suppose this is how its supposed to go when a guy is really into that sort of thing for FM

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And how do you explain how you ONLY townread people D1/D2? Why did you vote Renegade while thinking he was doing his TPR meta? Why did you not stop D1 from ending early? Why aren't you actively making a case on Unknown that doesn't rely on PoE?

None of these look good for you. This isn't a read based on mechanics. Mechanics narrowed it down to you vs Unknown. I'm voting you because you look scummier.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Honestly it's not even just that.

You were way too concerned with people seeing your claim as true, played very passively and constantly 'accepting other peoples reads' as your own. In hindsight we probably should have realized you were triad a long time ago had it not been for your claim.

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Unknown is finally on the page he should be as town!

Reading through your posts was a bit of a trip. You spent a LOT of time scumreading Martin until he claimed, and then accepted his claim as proof of being town forever after.

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Originally Posted by MattZed

Unknown is finally on the page he should be as town!

Reading through your posts was a bit of a trip. You spent a LOT of time scumreading Martin until he claimed, and then accepted his claim as proof of being town forever after.

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My reads were way off in terms of reading peoples emotion. I like to think that there is an easy way to read into that type of emotion but that certainly did not help me this game.

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Originally Posted by MattZed

And how do you explain how you ONLY townread people D1/D2? Why did you vote Renegade while thinking he was doing his TPR meta? Why did you not stop D1 from ending early? Why aren't you actively making a case on Unknown that doesn't rely on PoE?

None of these look good for you. This isn't a read based on mechanics. Mechanics narrowed it down to you vs Unknown. I'm voting you because you look scummier.

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Only townread people on D1?

Bullshit. That day only lasted a few hours of its supposed 48 hour run.

Don't throw that fake shit at me WHEN WE DIDN'T HAVE THE TIME TO READ EVERYONE (Much less everyone being in the thread!!!)

And when I did have a scum-read, it was Oberon since he claimed BD (My role!!!)

you're blatantly taking advantage of not noting context here

I'm good where I'm at tbh

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

Only townread people on D1?

Bullshit. That day only lasted a few hours of its supposed 48 hour run.

Don't throw that fake shit at me WHEN WE DIDN'T HAVE THE TIME TO READ EVERYONE (Much less everyone being in the thread!!!)

And when I did have a scum-read, it was Oberon since he claimed BD (My role!!!)

you're blatantly taking advantage of not noting context here

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But even YOU weren't convinced that he was switcher. You pushed him saying that he was confirmed scum, but showed every hint of doubt in your posts talking about him.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

But even YOU weren't convinced that he was switcher. You pushed him saying that he was confirmed scum, but showed every hint of doubt in your posts talking about him.

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I was convinced he was scum.

Why does it matter if he's switcher or triad?

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Originally Posted by Frinckles

I'm good where I'm at tbh

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Why do you want to lynch FrostByte?

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

I was convinced he was scum.

Why does it matter if he's switcher or triad?

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IN FACT

Lets go search the word "switcher" and see how many times that pops up in Unknown's D1 ISO.

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

I was convinced he was scum.

Why does it matter if he's switcher or triad?

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I'm referring to you repeatedly talking about if he flipped Bus Driver. You setup a narrative that he was going to flip Bus Driver by suggesting it.

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Originally Posted by Frinckles

I'm good where I'm at tbh

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Sure, I would have voted FrostByte had we not been able to mechanically PoE the DH down to two people today. I felt he was scummy before today started.

But why are you feeling like yeeting him instead of a DH candidate?

Isn't the only role that FrostByte could be is CA at this point? In that case a potential Martin/Helz/FrostByte seems less likely

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Isn't the only role that FrostByte could be is CA at this point? In that case a potential Martin/Helz/FrostByte seems less likely

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FrostByte could be a Triad Any that we don't know about yet.

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Originally Posted by MattZed

Sure, I would have voted FrostByte had we not been able to mechanically PoE the DH down to two people today. I felt he was scummy before today started.

But why are you feeling like yeeting him instead of a DH candidate?

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feels like the right thing to do. Who is the other candidate

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Originally Posted by MattZed

FrostByte could be a Triad Any that we don't know about yet.

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Actually yeah that would make some sense TBH. Although I never really considered the idea of Renegade and Naz both being town.

I'm leaning Unkown over Martin, but what happened to the federal case against Unkown? I thought it was nearly confirmed he was DH? Why is it back up in the air again?

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Originally Posted by Renegade

I'm leaning Unkown over Martin, but what happened to the federal case against Unkown? I thought it was nearly confirmed he was DH? Why is it back up in the air again?

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Because Martin was largely ignored most of the game because of his claim (including me) but since there was no other option for DH for me, it forced me to do a re-read in which Martin being Dh actually makes a lot of sense. I suggest you read through the last few pages to see this if you haven't already done so.

Spoiler : Quotes containing "Switcher" :

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I'd laugh if MattZed was switcher and is asking these questions to see if people would follow them/if they would work.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

So the switcher won't know if their role changes. Interesting.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Yeah that makes more sense than what I was saying lol. If this is the case then the switcher revealing themselves would let us know who it is.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

This also means that the switcher is going to pick someone to lose with their night action... RIP to the chosen one.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

What I meant was that whoever the switcher gives their role to is automatically losing, assuming it's successful.

I agree with you that there is no reason the Switcher shouldn't reveal themselves day 2 and say who they swapped. I also don't think there is any need for the Busdriver to use their night action on the first night. It would only do more good than bad.

You mentioned weaponizing the switchers ability, but seem to believe that having them reveal is the better option. Just want to clarify that's what you're thinking.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

This is a lot more complex than I thought. I don't want to spell out the whole situation folding out, but perhaps your idea makes sense assuming that all of the switchers follow through with it.

The risky route vs the safe route. A lot of ways it could play out well. I have to give Helz more credit for thinking about it differently.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I honestly think that the switcher is now an extra town role if used properly.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Switcher day 2 reveal is always the play.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I was suspicious of Martins questioning, but I also wanted to point out how it felt like Frinckles was trying to look for his 'friends' (teammates) in a almost too obvious to be true sort of way. Martin feels very cautious in their messages towards the switcher role. Not certain what that indicates to me.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I get switcher vibes more from Martin. Both of them seemed reluctant to discuss switcher theories, but between the two of them Martin was the one who tried to push it elsewhere. Frinckles just let it happen.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I don't know 100% how a switcher will act considering they can use their night action the next day. The reason I feel you could be more likely switcher than Frinckles is because he didn't encourage the conversation at all. If I was switcher I would want people to continue talking about it in order to get a feel for the best possible decision to make. I felt the way you approached it seemed more of a challenge vs ignoring it entirely.

As of right now, it feels like it's you. That being said, less than half the game has actively participated.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

1.) He seemed to encourage switcher discussion while at the same time saying he wanted it to stop. Indication of potential Switcher mindset.

2.) He seemed to be openly buying into Frinckles' bait and sheeping him without much thought (his own words). Finding it hard to decide if what Frinckles did or what Martin did is more buddying/potential teammate hunting. This could be Indicative of being scum.

3.) The way he's been talking feels very forced and scripted. I don't know if this is how he plays but none of it feels genuine.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Yeah that's my bad, I read it as "Town Random" and not "Town read".

To answer your question, I think Helz is my biggest town-read as of right now. He noticed the same potential signalling that Frinckles has been doing that nobody else seemed to care about. I also like how his answers in the switcher discussion. It came off to me when I was thinking about he wanted to weaponize the switcher, and I agree that there are quite a few situations where lynching the switcher isn't the best play.

MattZed leans town, but im holding off on that because aside from the beginning when he began the discussion on Switcher it's been more of a gut read. I could also see Renegade easily being town just from the way he interacted with his train/the counter train that started on Martin.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I know you are currently busy, but I would like to know what you think is the best lynch for day 1. Getting rid of the Switcher immediately, or getting a lynch on triad. Not questioning either but I'd like to know what your thoughts are.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Is that why he asked me what my thinking was behind beneficial plays with the switcher? Damn I actually kinda believe this claim lol.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I had to clarify this with Frinckles too but I’m referring to your interaction towards him, not with him. I am not saying you two are knowing buddying each other as scum teammates.

I think I misread your original post, but I read that as not wanting to talk about it anymore (similar to me not wanting to discuss oberons question about switcher).

Given I don’t feel like I’ve seen you scum-hunting, not sure why you think it’s strange that You don’t see what I’m saying

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I think I understand what Mag is doing which is why I don’t think he’s switcher.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Like I said before, there are reasons why it’s better for us to not lynch switcher, but I didn’t specifically say why. Since mag is being a dummy I’m going to go up to my computer when I’m done cooking and explain why.

He wants people to vote him but I think he’s misunderstanding the role.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Mag thinks MattZed is evil for trying to lynch him. He thinks it's me as well because I joined that train (although I meant to fake vote, i never changed it either).

Since mag is not backing down from his claim, I'm going to clarify why I said we had benefits.

There are good and bad situations with this role, im just gonna briefly make a list.

1.) Switcher is lynched day 1, one less evil role for us to lynch.
2.) Switcher takes a triad role night 1. The new switcher now reveals the old switcher as triad, and we lynch the triad and let the switcher take a new role. (This cycle can continue into either lynching the next switcher, lynching the current switcher if it fails, or lynching the new triad if a triad player is chosen again).
3.) The switcher becomes town n1, he tells us who the new switcher is, we lynch the switcher.
4.) The switcher becomes town n1, and he does not tell us who the new switcher is. The cycle continues until someone decides to reveal the switcher, or another triad is found and a lynch on triad occurs.

There are pros and cons to leaving Oberon alive, but at the end of the game hes not on our team. Thought it was worth discussing earlier but I did not want to dissuade the Switcher from revealing if he thought he was going to be lynched by accidentally taking a triad role. I don't really have much thoughts aside from this, and it's possible I missed some scenarios as I'm a bit out of focus right now.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Yes but I also said lynching a town is a lot worse than lynching the Switcher. Lynching you is just the middle option. Considering half the people aren't even being active and someone is at L-2, I feel very conflicted about what's happening.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Do you still think he's Switcher at this point?

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Then you lynch the Switcher claim and the Triad claim lol.

You guys don't realize how informational this role can be to town lol... But it's basically a useless role now because of how divided and ridiculous this game has become. At this point everyone isn't going to believe shit.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I don't think his reaction to your claim was scum driven, I said this much when you first started it. Switcher is sided against town, and I can't fault someone for voting a non-town aligned role that seemed to have been hard claimed day 1.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Mag claimed Switcher actually LOL, and got to L-1 almost immediately

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Mag if you flip Switcher I’m going to die inside

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He said switcher 47 times on D1

Spoiler : Quotes containing "Scum" :

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Would you sheep a hammer vote if your #1 town read was 100% sure someone was scum?

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

@Renegade thoughts on this theory? I also feel more suspicious of it after he mentions that his scum-play is him being a tryhard. This feels like double overcompensating for his supposed "obvious scumplay" (Not commenting on this as I've played very few games with him).

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Yeah, I am wondering why he decided to town-read Frinckles so strongly while scum-reading quite a bit at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

scum-reading you* I need to proof read what I type before I hit send smh.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

1.) He seemed to encourage switcher discussion while at the same time saying he wanted it to stop. Indication of potential Switcher mindset.

2.) He seemed to be openly buying into Frinckles' bait and sheeping him without much thought (his own words). Finding it hard to decide if what Frinckles did or what Martin did is more buddying/potential teammate hunting. This could be Indicative of being scum.

3.) The way he's been talking feels very forced and scripted. I don't know if this is how he plays but none of it feels genuine.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I don't see any town motivation in Frinckles play. Aside from maybe a very stretched performance trying to read reactions towards him, the fact he openly discussed his own scum-play and said that he was a try-hard (the complete opposite of what hes doing) struck as very scummy to me. I don't like when people try to twist their own meta.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Day 1 is probably one of the best days to lynch scum. As of right now there are no leads (real or fake) to go off of, and nothing clearing anyone. Frinckles and Martin have both came off as fishing for potential teammates to me and that's what I would expect scum to be doing.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Can you explain why you think it's weak? I've seen scum do this in games that I've played in, (although that was a while ago, I don't expect it would change that fast). I also want to know why you're shutting out single points and not the rest of the argument on Frinckles.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I like this post a lot actually. Most people in-game have already said they won't read, and it would be easy for scum to make long posts in order to look town. I don't think that's the case here but I like where you're coming from with it.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I had to clarify this with Frinckles too but I’m referring to your interaction towards him, not with him. I am not saying you two are knowing buddying each other as scum teammates.

I think I misread your original post, but I read that as not wanting to talk about it anymore (similar to me not wanting to discuss oberons question about switcher).

Given I don’t feel like I’ve seen you scum-hunting, not sure why you think it’s strange that You don’t see what I’m saying

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I don't think his reaction to your claim was scum driven, I said this much when you first started it. Switcher is sided against town, and I can't fault someone for voting a non-town aligned role that seemed to have been hard claimed day 1.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I don’t think Martin is scum either, but I don’t understand why someone has to be lying between the two of you.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I’d give him more credit than openly claiming an evil neutral role than that. Besides the AtE that he did which definitely had me convinced for a moment, it seemed obvious that he wouldn’t do that. I don’t know why people are actually thinking that a scum neutral role would claim openly.

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He said scum 17 times on D1

Spoiler : Quotes containing "Triad" :

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

This would work assuming they take a role they can switch and don't target a triad.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I know you are currently busy, but I would like to know what you think is the best lynch for day 1. Getting rid of the Switcher immediately, or getting a lynch on triad. Not questioning either but I'd like to know what your thoughts are.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Mag thinks MattZed is evil for trying to lynch him. He thinks it's me as well because I joined that train (although I meant to fake vote, i never changed it either).

Since mag is not backing down from his claim, I'm going to clarify why I said we had benefits.

There are good and bad situations with this role, im just gonna briefly make a list.

1.) Switcher is lynched day 1, one less evil role for us to lynch.
2.) Switcher takes a triad role night 1. The new switcher now reveals the old switcher as triad, and we lynch the triad and let the switcher take a new role. (This cycle can continue into either lynching the next switcher, lynching the current switcher if it fails, or lynching the new triad if a triad player is chosen again).
3.) The switcher becomes town n1, he tells us who the new switcher is, we lynch the switcher.
4.) The switcher becomes town n1, and he does not tell us who the new switcher is. The cycle continues until someone decides to reveal the switcher, or another triad is found and a lynch on triad occurs.

There are pros and cons to leaving Oberon alive, but at the end of the game hes not on our team. Thought it was worth discussing earlier but I did not want to dissuade the Switcher from revealing if he thought he was going to be lynched by accidentally taking a triad role. I don't really have much thoughts aside from this, and it's possible I missed some scenarios as I'm a bit out of focus right now.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I really wish this hadn't happened the way it did, as I can see a lot of good things coming from your role. If we had a lynch on a triad that was like 95% convincing then I'd say we don't lynch you, but no-lynching doesn't seem optimal either.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

LMFAO yzb is definitely not saying that as triad.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

And if he switches with a triad?

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Then you lynch the Switcher claim and the Triad claim lol.

You guys don't realize how informational this role can be to town lol... But it's basically a useless role now because of how divided and ridiculous this game has become. At this point everyone isn't going to believe shit.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Frinckles why do you think all 4 triad aren’t voting Oberon? Oberon why do you think all 4 triad are voting you?

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Why is it that surprising to have two bus drivers in a setup with a role that involved swapping mechanics? If anything it’s the opposite lol.

People seem very quick to stack votes in this game for some reason. Makes me believe the 3-5 voters are triad.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Frinckles with Renegade and DM as the brainless sheep. Very likely Atleast 2 of them are triad.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

It’s just weird that Frinckles is saying everyone not voting you is triad (his lowest 4 were all not voting you at the time) but he seems to be silently town-reading me the entire time.

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He said triad 19 times on D1

Spoiler : Quotes containing "town" :

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Busdriver IMO should play the beginning of the game as if they are citizen. The setup has the potential to be chaotic enough as it is, I don't see much benefit to bussing anything that isn't a confirmed town role.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I claim to be one of the town roles that exists in this setup. I might be Busdriver, but I also might not be Busdriver.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I honestly think that the switcher is now an extra town role if used properly.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I honestly think that the switcher is now an extra town role if used properly.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Would you sheep a hammer vote if your #1 town read was 100% sure someone was scum?

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I don't like town cores because I tend to get lazy on reading them when I trust people too much and don't re-evaluate enough.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

use their night action and be town the next day*

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Yeah, I am wondering why he decided to town-read Frinckles so strongly while scum-reading quite a bit at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I don't see any town motivation in Frinckles play. Aside from maybe a very stretched performance trying to read reactions towards him, the fact he openly discussed his own scum-play and said that he was a try-hard (the complete opposite of what hes doing) struck as very scummy to me. I don't like when people try to twist their own meta.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Yeah that's my bad, I read it as "Town Random" and not "Town read".

To answer your question, I think Helz is my biggest town-read as of right now. He noticed the same potential signalling that Frinckles has been doing that nobody else seemed to care about. I also like how his answers in the switcher discussion. It came off to me when I was thinking about he wanted to weaponize the switcher, and I agree that there are quite a few situations where lynching the switcher isn't the best play.

MattZed leans town, but im holding off on that because aside from the beginning when he began the discussion on Switcher it's been more of a gut read. I could also see Renegade easily being town just from the way he interacted with his train/the counter train that started on Martin.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I feel like your argument here is exactly why someone would do it, lol. I understand about the laziness thing, but I'd atleast like to know if you still have a strong town-read on Frinckles and if so, why?

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I like this post a lot actually. Most people in-game have already said they won't read, and it would be easy for scum to make long posts in order to look town. I don't think that's the case here but I like where you're coming from with it.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I'm walking away because solely focusing on Frinckles feels very unproductive and is encouraging less interaction between others. Very little of what he has said makes me think he's town but I'm moving on from this until later.

-unvote

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I don’t know if Mag is pulling an Unknown or not but lol at what is happening. You are really dragging this game in the wrong direction if you are town.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

1.) You don't win with town.
2.) In order to do that, you have to choose a person with a town role. Even if you did, the person you became would now be an evil role and we wouldn't be any step closer to winning.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Mag thinks MattZed is evil for trying to lynch him. He thinks it's me as well because I joined that train (although I meant to fake vote, i never changed it either).

Since mag is not backing down from his claim, I'm going to clarify why I said we had benefits.

There are good and bad situations with this role, im just gonna briefly make a list.

1.) Switcher is lynched day 1, one less evil role for us to lynch.
2.) Switcher takes a triad role night 1. The new switcher now reveals the old switcher as triad, and we lynch the triad and let the switcher take a new role. (This cycle can continue into either lynching the next switcher, lynching the current switcher if it fails, or lynching the new triad if a triad player is chosen again).
3.) The switcher becomes town n1, he tells us who the new switcher is, we lynch the switcher.
4.) The switcher becomes town n1, and he does not tell us who the new switcher is. The cycle continues until someone decides to reveal the switcher, or another triad is found and a lynch on triad occurs.

There are pros and cons to leaving Oberon alive, but at the end of the game hes not on our team. Thought it was worth discussing earlier but I did not want to dissuade the Switcher from revealing if he thought he was going to be lynched by accidentally taking a triad role. I don't really have much thoughts aside from this, and it's possible I missed some scenarios as I'm a bit out of focus right now.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Yes but I also said lynching a town is a lot worse than lynching the Switcher. Lynching you is just the middle option. Considering half the people aren't even being active and someone is at L-2, I feel very conflicted about what's happening.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Then you lynch the Switcher claim and the Triad claim lol.

You guys don't realize how informational this role can be to town lol... But it's basically a useless role now because of how divided and ridiculous this game has become. At this point everyone isn't going to believe shit.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I don't think his reaction to your claim was scum driven, I said this much when you first started it. Switcher is sided against town, and I can't fault someone for voting a non-town aligned role that seemed to have been hard claimed day 1.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Bus driver is actually one of the few confirmed town roles lol.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

It’s just weird that Frinckles is saying everyone not voting you is triad (his lowest 4 were all not voting you at the time) but he seems to be silently town-reading me the entire time.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

If bakermir and DM’s slips were both actual townie slips, this game will be easy lol.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

The only townie thing from you this game is your claim.

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He said town 31 times on D1


:thinking:

So much more emphasis on publicly finding town and switcher

and secretly taking notes on who he really thinks is triad/scum

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

Spoiler : Quotes containing "Switcher" :

He said switcher 47 times on D1

Spoiler : Quotes containing "Scum" :

He said scum 17 times on D1

Spoiler : Quotes containing "Triad" :

He said triad 19 times on D1

Spoiler : Quotes containing "town" :

He said town 31 times on D1


:thinking:

So much more emphasis on publicly finding town and switcher

and secretly taking notes on who he really thinks is triad/scum

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Heck I could probably cross-refrence

see how many times the words are used together

but I don't have time for that as I got an essay due tonight

will be back later

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Originally Posted by Renegade

I'm leaning Unkown over Martin, but what happened to the federal case against Unkown? I thought it was nearly confirmed he was DH? Why is it back up in the air again?

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Because MattZed

that's why you shouldn't lock him and let Unkown kill him tonight

I think the biggest reason that shows why you're triad is because you deliberately didn't say anything until you thought people weren't going to believe you. You avoided scum-hunting entirely, or at the very least trying to associate people with me. It shows that you don't believe that I am DH because you know you are, just in the same way that it happened to Oberon.

If you are really going to point out how many times I say the word switcher in a day where we constantly talked about switcher mechanics at the start and Oberon fake-claiming switcher, you are obviously going to get more of said word. That's not an argument, nor does it even counter the argument that you avoided hunting for triad throughout the ENTIRE GAME, and not just the first day.

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Originally Posted by Unknown1234

@MattZed @Frinckles @Renegade @FrostByte @Helz @naz

I don't care how likely it is that Martin is town and that I am DH. Voting me is a likely loss if FrostByte or Renegade aren't town and I want you all to believe that I am Butler for at least a minute and see that everything I've done in this game is coming from that. I fully intend to break through Martin's posts to prove why he is DH but that will take more time and will be done afterwards (likely later in the day as I still feel sick and will probably want to nap again).



First post was made to show a connection between me and yzb.



Me commenting on yzb's first post. If nothing else it was to see and hope he might pick up on something through our interactions at some point.



Once again trying to show some sort of overly friendliness to yzb in hopes he would catch on.



This is in response to Frinckles suggesting he could be triad after saying the game should be called.



This is me wanting to know where Oberon's thoughts were while trying to steer conversation away from yzb because I knew he was town.



This is my read on him at the start of day 2 where I am trying to prove that he is town more than reading him as town (the only read where I point out specific posts and link them).





These two are both of me voicing my thoughts towards yzb.



My reads list that now drops yzb to the most towny slot.



I made it very clear several times my connection with Yzb but made sure never to drop a hint that I could be butler (unless you read a lot into our interactions like Helz(?) potentially may have). Making it as far as I could have with yzb still being alive makes the game that much easier to solve and it worked almost as good as it could have until situations happening today.

I think this is going to be a huge lesson for me on not confirming peoples roles one way or another based simply on the likeliness of their roles exisiting and reading into emotions based on claims. I kinda wish in hindsight I had spent less time simply believing that Martin was town because of his role-claim and actually spent more time deciding if that made sense or not.

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@Renegade @Frinckles

If you can see my claim here then you know I have to be town. There is no other option except for some extremely small chance of a sniper kill n2 and even that is not worth considering. Martin has to be the lynch today or there is a good chance we will lose.

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Originally Posted by Renegade

I'm leaning Unkown over Martin, but what happened to the federal case against Unkown? I thought it was nearly confirmed he was DH? Why is it back up in the air again?

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Do you have a reason to think Martin is town OTHER than your gut believing his BD claim?
@Frinckles , the DH candidates are Martin and Unknown. Helz/FrostByte can't be because of yzb, and Renegade/Naz have both given good evidence they have a night action that isn't killing.

tfw website down all day

Oshit we are back folks.

@Auwt , can we get a few extra hours on day?

the website is alive

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Originally Posted by MattZed

That alleged N1 self-swap with Frinckles still makes no sense to me. Martin CLEARLY believed Frinckles was likely town, so he's just swapping the DH kill from one town to another. Saying it would help showing Frinckles is town is just BS. So what if the DH thinks Frinckles is town?

When reading through his posts with a lens of "If he's DH, why is he posting this?" makes a good deal of sense. BD is a good cover because it doesn't leave much in the way of feedback. Not trying to draw out D1 and get that BD hammered before the rush peters out helps triad. Shooting your strongest townread makes sense. Only townreading people and not having scumreads makes sense because you don't want to make enemies.

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ya...its this similar reasoning that has me leaning a martin yeet today
I'll be on my laptop tmrw to look into it more, I'm annoyed the site was down when I finally had some free time to do some ISO earlier

Martin ignored all my questions before the site went down
bye scum

-vote martingg99

idc if I don't get to iso tomorrow u had time

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Originally Posted by MattZed

@naz , you control your night actions, but it's hard for me to see you watching someone OTHER than Helz tonight.

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If Helz is CA, he's likely used his night action already. I don't see the point in watching but I'll see what happens post flip owo

If anyone is CA* ...they MUST have used their action already, no?