And start cracking jokes about black people. Much like they joke about French people.
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And start cracking jokes about black people. Much like they joke about French people.
I wouldn't want to be black. Allegedly they have a higher bone density that makes swimming less enjoyable for them due to it taking more energy to keep afloat.
I like swimming. It'd suck to turn black.
"I can't wait for black people to stop speaking out against racism so I can go back to making jokes where the punchline is just the N-word" - Oberon
Well, not really. It's just that I think people have a really short memory span. When an issue is no in the public eye people immediately forget about it. Besides, it's not as if cracking jokes makes you a racist. Depends on a lot of things tbh. I would even go as far as saying that you can even make Holocaust jokes as long as you do them right, and don't have any malevolence attached to it.
oh my god.
Opinion: we don't need shit that gives everybody a headache to have a healthy and active site.
Figure out why you're intentionally giving yourself headaches and using our angry responses to your threads as fuel for your headaches. You're hiding from something. Why do you beat yourself up on Skwirl and this site? You might deny it, but you admitted YOURSELF that you use this site to give you a headache. It's okay to admit that.
Or maybe you're just a bad person. I'm starting to think that, considering how long you've been so difficult to deal with.
FUCK. I'M SO FUCKING MAD!!!
seriously i'm very pissed off. stop the cycle, i want to fucking enjoy this site
Why is it that the mentally unstable are the best at reading other people?Quote:
Originally Posted by theoneceko
:thinking:
You're favourite toast spread is sawdustQuote:
Originally Posted by OzyWho
You're literally the only one giving anybody headaches here...Quote:
Originally Posted by theoneceko
Ceko, here's an idea: if you don't like me or what I've to say, then DON'T READ IT. Block me and move on.
I too wish you'd stop interacting in political threads. You're much more enjoyable in forum mafia.
Heh I get that some people don't really like what I'm saying. That's fine. I'm not doing it to piss anyone off (at least not anymore), though. But I guess if people really want me to stop that much, I will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voss
I feel like people are misconstruing this thread as me saying I can't wait to crack jokes about black people or whatever. That's not what I'm saying. I don't even know that many black people... And now that I think about it, I can't actually think of any black people jokes, either.
Maybe try these threads again in 6-8 months, rather than immediately after a ban.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberon
You tried too hard. Wasn't believable. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperJack
Good attempt though. But not sure why because nobody here questions your sanity. :blink1:
Fair.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voss
This thread is beautiful because I actually agree with every single post (after my own) so far.
i feel like you meant to bait MM but he didn't even respond
UWOWU HEWWO!!!
uwu. HEWWO!!!
Me?Quote:
Originally Posted by aamirus
I think MM already surrendereded
With charcoal as a dressingQuote:
Originally Posted by SuperJack
I don't think it will end for a very long time. One issue is that I do not believe our society has moved in any real direction to address systemic racism.
I also see some level of the movement amplifying some police action as racist when it was both justified and not racial as instigating fear in African American / Police interactions and exacerbating the problem and creating more negative outcomes in those interactions. Confirmation bias plays a factor and its natural for a human being to run when they are afraid for their safety and the message that police are out to harm you because of your race creates that fear.
Finally there is a very political side to this message. After having an African American president for 8 years Trump got in office and racism became a political rallying cry. The second he was out of office that message died down. This both suggests political motivations leveraging African American suffering as well as it being an effective tool to push public motivation in the favor of the democrats power structure. I kind of expect this to exploited over and over again.
Something is interesting is that racial humor is considered acceptable depending on society's sensitivity to a race. Right now I could crack a joke likeQuote:
Originally Posted by Oberon
'How do you circumcise a white Hill Billy? You kick his cousin in the jaw!'
This plays on the negative stereotype of white people fucking their cousins which is pretty much negative and racist but its likely nobody would take issue with it.
Then I could crack a joke about black people liking fried chicken.
It is playing on a stereotype but is not negative at all yet I believe it would be much more likely that between those jokes the comment on fried chicken would be found 'offensive' long before the crack on white incest simply because of our society's sensitivity to the issue.
All that to say- I think your right that 'if' the message died down cultural sensitivities would shift and racial humor would become more acceptable (which would arguably be a sign of a hate free society while simultaneously allowing for a form of hate speech to become acceptable) but I do not think it will happen. There is interest within the existing power structures to keep things the way they are and the message is a powerful tool while actually addressing the issue would require those who are better off in our society to sacrifice their 'privilege.' I just do not have faith in the individual or the power structures to act in a selfless manner when there is such interest in maintaining systemic racism.
SITUATIONAL IRONYQuote:
Originally Posted by Oberon
Yea with the French lineQuote:
Originally Posted by Oberon
Lol I didn't even realise that damnQuote:
Originally Posted by aamirus
I didn't even notice the French line, that's how accustomed to it I've become. :laugh:
When you look at people rioting and stuff over Ma'Khia Bryant's shooting and then look at thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Helz
Attachment 27839
I feel like it detracts from people who are actually being oppressed and real police brutality. I do not know if there has ever been a more justified shooting than a teenage girl cowering against a car fractions of a second away from being stabbed but you still have so many outlets and people pushing a rhetoric that perpetuates hostility and fear between African Americans and police. Is there even a word for that process? Like.. Inciting fear and hatred through falsifying oppression?
Not to say there is not a lot of corruption but I really feel like this kinda shit right here is what causes a lot of the issues.
having watched the released bodycam video, i can understand shooting. But I think there is no need for this girl to be dead. The guy shoots rapid-fire (i hear at least 4 shots in quick succession) and he shoots right in her upper body. I can understand the average person with a gun behaving this way, but I think a policeman should be trained better. He spammed the trigger like someone playing a videogameQuote:
Originally Posted by Helz
I used to have a rule where I wouldn't speak about issues concerning black people because I believe racial groups should solve their own problems. I am going to discard this rule on a site that doesn't have a single active black member and speak against the majority of the black community in the U.S.
If I was the police officer, I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if I didn't do everything in my power to defend the girl who was about to get stabbed. However, if I was in his situation, I would've either frozen up with the gun in my hand as I watched the girl get stabbed because I was unwilling to kill or shot Ma'Khia multiple times. No matter what I did, I would have an incredibly difficult time bearing the results of that situation.
Criticizing the police officer is the worst thing you can do in this situation. He had to make a split-second decision in an extremely high-pressure situation. He had to protect the defenseless girl. Achieving this without killing Ma'Khia is obviously preferable. However, the officer didn't have the luxury to think about how many times he should shoot Ma'Khia because she was literally about to stab someone. The fact he shot four times probably indicates he shot people before and is more comfortable with using lethal force. Maybe it's because he was forced into similar situations, specifically ones that deal with black-on-black violence. Blacks represent 12% of the general U.S. population, but committed 35% of nonfatal violent crimes in 2018 (https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/revcoa18.pdf). Who do we blame for that? I don't know. However, this is a reality police officers have to deal with.
The fact people chanted "Hands up. Don't shoot." during protests for Ma'Khia is also ridiculous. Ma'Khia was swinging a knife. Her hands weren't up when she got shot, they were holding a knife that could've killed someone. https://abc7chicago.com/columbus-ohi...news/10536792/ By the way, I got this information from a site showing the bodycam footage you were talking about.
I think I feel the same way about that police officer as many people did about George Floyd. I realize that George Floyd is dead while the officer who shot Ma'Khia is alive. However, I've more feelings of sympathy for the officer, probably because I haven't seen people talking about how, broadly speaking, the police are also systemic victims. "[A] peace officer of any race is far more likely to be killed by a Black male than any unarmed Black male is to be killed by a police officer of any race." (https://www.inforum.com/opinion/6951...ling-of-Blacks) Police officers work one of the most dangerous jobs in America, and most of their fatal accidents come from injuries by other people or animals (https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748...-united-states). The root of the problem isn't police, it's the fact that black people are disproportionately poor because of systemic oppression. This is sort of irrelevant, but I doubt any black person would like to hear ME, an Asian, refer to their race as victimized. Also, if you hate me for sympathizing with the police officer, go ahead LOLE. I'll just bully you until you shut the fuck up! I'll literally learn how to be the worst person possible to you, just so you can shut the fuck up!
The way some media outlets portray this particular shooting is portrayed is absolutely insane. Ma'Khia doesn't deserve any pity in the shooting. She may have had a rough life which led her down a path that got her killed. We're human. Sometimes, we can't rise above our circumstances. I understand if people don't want to defend the police officer, but the two women who were attacked by knife-wielding Ma'Khia (the bodycam shows she attacked two people before getting shot) are completely ignored in this debate. Stories aren't written about those people, unless it relates to controversial topics like police brutality. George Floyd is a perfect example of that. It's awful and tragic that he was murdered, but his story generates nationwide protests while no one seems to be outraged over the two women who were attacked by Ma'Khia.
Broadly speaking, blacks have endured, by far, more pain and oppression than any other racial group in the U.S. And even after what they went through, they're at the bottom. I could say this is awful, but at the same time I don't want my life to be negatively affected by other people's problems. In other words, I don't want to be denied entrance to college just because my skin color automatically makes me privileged. If African Americans want to respond to the injustices of slavery by demanding the police to not police them even though they've the highest crime rate, I generally don't care. They can do what they want, and personal experience taught me that in some cases, responding to a wrong with a wrong can't be helped. I think BLM is wrong. Just my opinion. Please hate me for it. It's not like I'm in the police, in the black community or a victim of any form of police brutality. It's not like you're in the police, in the black community or a victim of any form of police brutality. In the end, this all just comes down to which ideological group will hold the most power. Neither side in this debate is perfect, and it's impossible to find a solution to police brutality that benefits everyone. This is part of why BLM is so controversial.
I don't like the direction America is headed in politically, but it hasn't personally impacted my life yet and I'm only one person out of 300 million. goodnight, UWU HEWWO
There's a part of me that empathizes with the black community, but I just felt I'd to take a contrarian stance here. Now that I vented my anger about the Ma'Khia shooting, I can shift gears and take aami's side... OWO HEWWU!!!
No actually. I'm still mad at what aami said about the police officer. I think I'm mad at her as a person too.
Welcome to politics, where you suffer if you don't participate and suffer if you do participate. Politics are not a fun time. Values suck. UWU's don't. UWOWU HEWWO!!!
@Helz by the way this link (https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ter-protests1/) shows that BLM might be effective at reducing police brutality.
I guarantee you that in every part of the world, the local police are well informed about the description/profile of the most common criminals in the area - as well they should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by theoneceko
The fact that in America one of such profilings has "black" in it is irrelevant as far as "the police have to deal with it" is concerned. Travel elsewhere in the world and that common criminal profile would be different, but the police would have to deal with it just as much.
It's a description of this study:Quote:
Originally Posted by theoneceko
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=3767097
I'm sad that I can't follow the study no matter how much I tried - I legit don't know them math symbols and stuff. :laugh:
Howeverseems like a significant correlation tbh.Quote:
It found that municipalities where BLM protests have been held experienced as much as a 20 percent decrease in killings by police
Like what do you think of this scene?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBYiVoNwzQo
Black guys in the 80s dressed up as gangsters, getting "randomly questioned" when in a respectable neighborhood.
I bet you they wouldn't be treated as criminals if they didn't dress as such, yet some bystander assumes it's only because they're black even though the policeman stopping them was black. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This is something I hear a lot. Imagine if that cop had not shot. I bet the exact same message could be said on the other side of 'Police officer allows black teenager to be stabbed to death.' People could be talking about how he had a gun and choose not to protect the girl because she was black or some such.Quote:
Originally Posted by aamirus
The use of a gun is only allowed in response to a deadly threat and its objective is to 'stop' that threat. Police shoot until there is no threat because people can survive some punishment. Just look up medal of Honor recipient Roy Benavidez who was shot 37 times, took shrapnel and was hurt in hand to hand but lived. If anything I feel like that cop waited too long to shoot. People see movies and video games and think a body shot drops someone but I could tell you some pretty fucked up stories from personal experience of people just not going down while taking crazy damage. The fact he held restraint even after that girl had already stabbed someone is a pretty strong indicator he did everything within reason to avoid killing that girl. I don't know the first thing about being a cop and am trained pretty differently but I would have been laying down rounds the moment that girl had stabbed someone.
People say things like 'Why didn't you shoot them in the leg' but have no understanding for how bullets move in a body or that there is a MASSIVE artery in the leg called the femoral artery that can easily bleed you out in minutes. If you have any interest in it look into gunshot wounds. Bullets move in crazy ways that can not be predicted once they hit a person and shooting someone is never justified in an 'attempt to wound'. Just imagine how the conversation would go if someday a cop kills someone and his defense is "I only meant to would him." He would be absolutely crucified in the court of public opinion as well as real court.
I do not mean to insinuate that the BLM movement is bad at all. I think it creates a lot of good although it is exploited in politics. I just take strong issue with situations like this where something so justified is used to spread hate and fear. That girl had already stabbed someone and was moments from stabbing another. I do not think any reasonable person can claim a knife is not a deadly threat but there are those who would push that girl running around stabbing people is a victim. I really feel like this echo in our society of pushing that message of hate and fear causes some of the terrible interactions with police. Its one thing to say a problem exists but quite another to make stuff up to say the problem is worse than it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by theoneceko
I have seen tons of issues like this before but never this blatantly. Its usually some guy trys to run and is about to run over a cop and gets shot or he wrestles with a cop while trying to get away and while fighting for the cops gun gets shot and such. The same message of 'unarmed black man killed by police' gets thrown around and it just pushes that message that creates the fear motivating more people to run and fight than follow police orders.
I do question if a part of that comes from people speaking outside of their knowledge. There is not really any other field in this world where 'experts' who deal with this all day every day get questioned by people who have never so much as shot a gun and have no clue what its like to be in a deadly situation. Imagine if when a doctors patient died you had groups watching youtube videos arguing medical treatment. It would be asinine to voice those opinions but in the realm of law enforcement its common place to scrutinize the decisions professionals make in fractions of a second. Simple concepts like how training muscle memory to react on call and how that effects how you will shoot under pressure is not understood even by your average gun enthusiast.
Heard about this before: https://youtu.be/5S7tFrQI2BwQuote:
Originally Posted by Helz
Are you insinuating that people spread hate and fear purposefully whilst knowing better or through ignorance?Quote:
Originally Posted by Helz
I do believe so. There are many times I see a 10 second clip of a guy being shot or beaten that looks very wrong. Then I go back and dig up the body cam footage and understand how things got there and feel its totally justified. Someone had to get that full body cam footage and edit out the parts that provide context to make a clip that makes the incident look as bad as possible. There is no way that is not intentional.Quote:
Originally Posted by OzyWho
Another thing I think strongly points to this is headlines. In the body of a story there is lots of rhetoric and details but the headline underscores the naked point they are pushing. Just look at any issue discussed in the news. On each political side you see one side call people rioters and the other calls them protestors. Then when the situation flips the rhetoric flips and each side highlights the worst or best aspects in order to sell their position instead of objectively explaining it. We live in an age where people very intentionally 'spread hate and fear whilst knowing better'. Just consider parallels like the whole 'stolen election' bit where a message was sold it was fraud but the leadership in courts very directly said 'this is not an issue of fraud.'
That's such a media thing to do. Whatever gets them views I guess - it's just business for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helz
But you said it's exploited in politics? You lost me there.
This is depressing.. thank you.. :SQuote:
Originally Posted by Helz
I don't consider news to be politics though. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You make this seem very convincing. It reminds me of when the Reddit guys screwed with the stock market and the stock market ppl literally said they were racists. Lol
The connection I make is that the message of racism promotes siding with democrats. There is clear racial undertones to the two parties and the pattern in which we saw with protests/riots is a very clear one. I am kinda regurgitating the view of Malcolm X here where he voicedQuote:
Originally Posted by OzyWho
On a basic level if you think about it its highly questionable how the side championing 'change' was the one in power for 8 years just before all these racial issues blew up. This is a pattern we see in politics. Time after time each group points to human suffering or moral principle promising they will make change if they are given the power but that change never happens. We can either conclude our power structures are woefully incompetent or (more likely imo) that they do not want change. That things are the way they want them because it puts them in power.Quote:
“The American negro is nothing but a political football and the white liberals control this ball. Through tricks, tokenism, and false promises of integration and civil rights…”
This is how I see a portion of 'perceived systemic racism' right now. Its a power message that preserves the power of one group and eliminating it would reduce their ability to market themselves and hold their grip on power.
On the parallel of the individual consider the case of "Jussie Smollett." He basically paid 2 friends (who were also black) to 'attack' him in a parking garage and made a noose he put around his neck then filed a false police report claiming it was white guys who did it with racial and homophobic motivations. His objective was some kind of sociopathic victimization that would increase his social image for his personal gain by playing off racial and homophobic hate and fear. These actions do exist on both the macro and micro and I believe looking at potential 'gain' is a nice indicator to speculating on motive.
I do not mean to say systemic racism or police brutality is not real or is not a huge problem at all. I am just saying there is personal and political motives to fearmongering and that it is very intentional. My belief that it will stick around is just my speculation because past events are the best indicators of future events and the things I believe would actually shift these issues are not even being talked about..I think we just gotta agree to disagree on that one. Wasn't there some leak of FOX or CNN recently of them talking about how they were intentionally trying to shift the election and such?Quote:
Originally Posted by OzyWho
In simple terms, when you say "exploited in politics" you mean by politicians making promises?Quote:
Originally Posted by Helz
The world is big enough for it to be true somewhere probably.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helz
But me personally, I'm lacking the creativity to imagine an example for a macro. Do you know of one?
Let's say you are some random politician and you have infinite resources for some reason. How would you fearmonger or how would you use fearmongering to gain votes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Helz
Yeah, I don't count the actions or intent of non-politicians as politics, we can agree to disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helz
Unless there's evidence that in US there's happening something like in China - where China spends billions a year on propaganda including via foreign media.
I really do think Malcom X said it best “The American negro is nothing but a political football and the white liberals control this ball. Through tricks, tokenism, and false promises of integration and civil rights…”Quote:
Originally Posted by OzyWho
Well for a extremely over simplified version in this context:Quote:
Originally Posted by OzyWho
Have a justified police shooting. Market it as racist pushing the message 'you should be afraid, they will wrongly kill citizens with impunity' and make yourself the voice saying 'We will change this thing you fear and hold them accountable.'
The appeal tugs at safety and morality with the solution being to put them in power.
In the age of macro manipulation of social networks for political gain I doubt anyone would say this sort of pattern does not exist. The same pattern was used on the other side:
"Bad people are crossing our border, raping our family's and stealing/murdering, you should be afraid" followed by the voiced solution of "Put us and power and we will build a wall to protect you and your children"
I think its common practice used by both sides but as Malcom X pointed out- African American suffering is being exploited for political gain (Although him saying that was obviously not it context to this situation at all)
Well said. We may just hold a difference in semantics here.Quote:
Originally Posted by OzyWho
Now I am baitedQuote:
Originally Posted by aamirus
I feel like this topic is being beaten to death in real life and like it serves no purpose to debate about it online because changing people's minds is strictly impossible, while enriching your own opinion is very hard. That's because the debate is too emotional and too polarized; actual logic is quite rare, and this rarity is fueled by the incredible sensitivity leading to incredible censorship on the matter. Almost anyone trying to be objective (not supposing there's racism everywhere, and not supposing racism is good or solved either) without hiding concepts behind endlessly edulcorated words combined in edulcorated formulas gets censored or labeled as "offensive" by a significant amount of people. Yes, that is what some people with ideologies I tend to strictly oppose call "cancel culture", and sadly, they're right that it kills free speech and genuine debating, which is necessary for any democracy (or rather, for any free society as far as we have discovered them) to function...
And then, on the other end, actual racism remains and is fueled by this overreaction. It gains sympathisers because of the opposite excess. I have witnessed this personally. Yes, online and in the media, but also on a personal, "real life" level. It's incredibly sad, yet incredibly hard to defuse. Because while we're doing this, we're not solving the real issues and we're not actually fighting racism. We're fighting windmills instead.
So, to address the specific topic of the OP, I will say that I completely agree, people will stop caring that much about racism, which will be bad for actual social progress. Plus, the polarized opposite will likely remain longer: "resistance against strong oppression" (which is how the right wing paints itself in America) often is stronger than a reaction against what seems to be somewhat "mild" oppression (actual racism).
Really, after writing this, I regret having delved into American internal social politics once again lol. BLM itself is being used as a political tool in the polarized debate instead of using itself as a tool to gain good human rights for all humans, which is the only thing all of this is about when perversions of the ideal (such as vengeance or domination) are excluded. BLM's spirit is good, but the execution of its goals is terrible, because it lets the organization be used by interests opposed to the achievement of good human rights for all humans.
/RANT
This post and the others about what you call the "political use" of BLM, racism and the fight against it, etc. are detailing the issue of what I called a "pervertion of the ideal" very well. The Malcom X quote is perfectly on point, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helz
I'll add that this state of American society, and to a lesser extent, of democratic societies in the world, is superior to the state previous to strong political anti-racism fights. Being politicized as a tool is better than not existing on the political scene and being forced to rise up in arms to make any gains. It's a start. Now, the political vehicle that was created by civil rights movements must be driven towards its goal and not get sidetracked.
2 questions:
1) what's a windmill?
2) we should care but also not overreact?
1) Ask @Oberon , he's Dutch after all now :DQuote:
Originally Posted by OzyWho
It's a mill that works with wind.
https://photographytraveltours.com/w...h-tulips_2.jpg
2) I'm not sure to understand.
Cool, thank you, but I was asking more about your use of the word. Could you elaborate on it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall
Spoiler : We shouldn't overreact. :
Spoiler : we should care. :