Mafia 2.0 Feedback list, and suggestions (Part 1?)

Hello @Frinckles .
Now that Mafia 2.0 has been out for a while, I think it's fair to talk about what could be changed. In particular, the new killing roles.

Roles:
Electromaniac
-Electromaniac is now only available in the Electric Bogaloo Chaos mode. Electromaniac no longer appears randomly as Neutral killing.
Electro's mechanics are well suited for a save with multiple of them.

-Electromaniac should win ties against town. Their win condition should be similar to the other neutral killers.
This one is a bug.


Poisoner
-Poisoner is now an evil non-killing role. Poisoner can choose to poison one person each night. Starting the next night the targeted person will not be able to perform their night action. This ability works on jailors/party hosts and other roles whose night actions are activated during the day.

-Poisoner win condition is now the same as witch.


Lover
-Lover now has night immunity.
As it currently stands, lover is a liability to the person they love and themselves. In fact, it's a good strategy to kill the lover instead of their target cuz lover receives no protection.



Cult/ Witch Doctor
-Cult should now be restricted to a new "Standard Cult Save". Cult roles no longer appear as random. Typically, starting 2 cults, 1 mason leader, 1 mason and no triad/mafia.
This seems to be a general complaint. Unexpected cult cannot be dealt with normally.



Heartbreaker/Swinger
-Those roles are no longer available.
Unfortunately, the lover mechanic doesn't work well with mafia/triad. The only situation where they work, is when your target doesn't announce that they have been loved. Otherwise, as soon as your target dies, everyone will hunt you.



Town categories:
-Escort and Party Host is now moved to Town Power.
-Coroner is moved to town support. Citizen is also moved to town support ( it might already be)
Escort and Party host are actually strong roles. Having them compete with street racer or oracle doesn't create a good setup balance. While coroner can be useful, it's a late game role, and has to wait for good results. The idea is to try reserving Town Support for the least useful roles.


Let's call it a post for now, maybe I will make another post later for things that escapes me right now.

I think some of the suggestions you've made are excellent, including Poisoner being non-killing, electro being less accessible, lover being NI, cult being restricted, coroner being support, and escort becoming town power (thus making it more likely).. I disagree with some, which I've elaborated below.

1. Party host could be made more useful. It exists basically to be an intermediately-confirmed person until gov reveals. They die early and often, and are easy to counterclaim. It could be made stronger by giving it a vest option, OR, by making it more confirm-able (special chat during parties, for example). It is most certainly not a town power role in its current state.

2. Escort is almost 100% always thought of as liaison/consort, and there's no way around it. There either needs to be a differentiator, or the role needs to be adjusted. It also needs a confirmation message. It's one of the few without. That said, making it town power may result in people believing it more, as it will be more frequent.

3. Coroner is IMHO the strongest town invest role, but IT. NEEDS. EXTRA. NOTEPAD. SPACE. I agree it's more of a support role (invest/det/sheriff being invest, the coroner is always their supporting function). However, that will make it less common in games, as town support is looked down upon in saves.

4. HB/Swinger are kind of boring roles. It could be made more interesting by allowing them to select another lover on a alter night (which does out them, but late-game, it could be an edge for evils)

5. Lover being NI is a FANTASTIC addition. However, I feel like Lover (and another role I am going to suggest) deserve a new category: Neutral Chaotic (win with anyone). They're not REALLY benign, they're not REALLY evil, they exist to cause Chaos. Auditor would also fall into this category.

6. So Poisoner is like a neutral 49er, but they don't make someone lose their powers? Interesting. Should it have a toggle option to disable abilities permanently, a la 49er?

7. While we're at it, Spy either should be removed, or allowed to see night chat again. At least have it as a toggle option. In its current form, it basically exists as an easy role for triad to claim.

8. Oracle literally exists to die and only to die. Perhaps one option that help confirm its existence would be a message to the person they visit "The diviners look down upon you this night" or something. It would both A) Confirm it, and B) also give mafia an edge, knowing whether they should target/lynch them.

I've played a few Mafia 2.0 games, and I can safely say the following:


-Oracle looks like a nice role but I've not had to play against it yet
-Poisoner is nice because it fucks with the bodyguard on mayor/marshall meta
-RNG sucks. EB/Creepy doll have no reason to exist. This is a game based on skill. Don't add RNG to it please

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CaNNoN

I think some of the suggestions you've made are excellent, including Poisoner being non-killing, electro being less accessible, lover being NI, cult being restricted, coroner being support, and escort becoming town power (thus making it more likely).. I disagree with some, which I've elaborated below.

1. Party host could be made more useful. It exists basically to be an intermediately-confirmed person until gov reveals. They die early and often, and are easy to counterclaim. It could be made stronger by giving it a vest option, OR, by making it more confirm-able (special chat during parties, for example). It is most certainly not a town power role in its current state.

2. Escort is almost 100% always thought of as liaison/consort, and there's no way around it. There either needs to be a differentiator, or the role needs to be adjusted. It also needs a confirmation message. It's one of the few without. That said, making it town power may result in people believing it more, as it will be more frequent.

3. Coroner is IMHO the strongest town invest role, but IT. NEEDS. EXTRA. NOTEPAD. SPACE. I agree it's more of a support role (invest/det/sheriff being invest, the coroner is always their supporting function). However, that will make it less common in games, as town support is looked down upon in saves.

4. HB/Swinger are kind of boring roles. It could be made more interesting by allowing them to select another lover on a alter night (which does out them, but late-game, it could be an edge for evils)

5. Lover being NI is a FANTASTIC addition. However, I feel like Lover (and another role I am going to suggest) deserve a new category: Neutral Chaotic (win with anyone). They're not REALLY benign, they're not REALLY evil, they exist to cause Chaos. Auditor would also fall into this category.

6. So Poisoner is like a neutral 49er, but they don't make someone lose their powers? Interesting. Should it have a toggle option to disable abilities permanently, a la 49er?

7. While we're at it, Spy either should be removed, or allowed to see night chat again. At least have it as a toggle option. In its current form, it basically exists as an easy role for triad to claim.

8. Oracle literally exists to die and only to die. Perhaps one option that help confirm its existence would be a message to the person they visit "The diviners look down upon you this night" or something. It would both A) Confirm it, and B) also give mafia an edge, knowing whether they should target/lynch them.

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I don't agree on 2). The game as is fine as it is with Escort/Consort being mistaken for one another (which was the intent).
3) Couldn't agree more
1) Party Host should be collapsed into Crier, and Crier should not have the ability to speak during the day; Judge should always be able to talk at night

Please, I beg you, please either remove or fix poisoner/electro/lover immediately.

They never should have been added to the game in their current state without real playtesting.

How do you really feel, Ren?

Remove Town Support as a category. It just makes role counting easier
that's one extra suggestion

As an aside, I've always wanted to play as a Neutral Evil Jailor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oberon

As an aside, I've always wanted to play as a Neutral Evil Jailor.

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This is why I'm placing more emphasis on lone triad possibilities in my 8331 saves. Triad wins tie over mafia, so I upped the chance of certain triad roles spawning in as effective neutral evils who cant win with mafia but can win in a tie with them.

Yes that means I finally replaced triad with mafia as the dominant faction after many years of using triad in my classic 8331. End of an era.