Re: killy: 1-S2-1-5387491
SC ID VERIFICATION
Killy 1-S2-1-5387491 Correct
Respective Hotkeys
Replay doesn't have killy's perspective for some reason.
Summary
This report is correct, killy was the host of this lobby and does possess 2 hacked saves, the 1st being the one in this replay and the 3rd being a normal save with the Easter Bunny.
Player Offenses
Bank hacking
Previous Offenses
Reactionary game throwing (a long time ago. And a bunch of ignored reports.)
Recommended Action
On-Hold
Additional Notes
Well I have shared with you my personal opinions on the matter, I'm going to put this report on hold as it is his first offence.
Re: killy: 1-S2-1-5387491
ID Verification :
killy 1-S2-1-5387491 Correct
Summary
Setup initialized by killy :
1. Easter Bunny
2. Townnull
3. Townnull
4. Townnulltwo
5. Townnulltwo
6. Justice
7. Justice
8. Arsonist
9. Jester
10. Jester
11. Citizen
12. Any Random
13. Neutral Killing
14. Neutral Random
15. Elector
After some internal discussions, it was decided that this kind of setup will be considered Griefing/Setup Abuse from now on.
Simple point being that if the roles are not available in the pool, there's a reason for it.
What definitely falls into Griefing :
Nulls roles are Stumps. Stump setup is considered Griefing.
Elector was intentionally removed because of its gameplay, thus has no reason to be present in nowadays' setups, so it is considered Griefing.
As for Justice, the role does not function, and thus should not be present in any setup.
None of the roles stated above are available in ANY of the premade setups, NOR the role pool selection.
What is tolerated/acceptable :
The presence of Easter Bunny / Caroler is tolerated/acceptable outside of Chaos Mode, considering how stable the role is, as well as its ominipresence in Chaos Mode.
Player Offenses
Griefing (Setup Abuse)
Previous Offenses
Griefing (WLx2 December 2021)
Recommended Action
WLx2
Additional Notes
A special notice should be added to the warning message, if possible.
Thanks for the report !
Re: killy: 1-S2-1-5387491
Re: killy: 1-S2-1-5387491
Law: 1-S2-1-354349
I am the originator of the save. Please redirect punishment to me. killy is one of many great players in the community who only wants to try something fun.
1 Attachment(s)
Re: killy: 1-S2-1-5387491
Hi, I'm killy. It's my second post.
I would like to express my thanks to all Mafia players and staff here
for the great game in StarCraft Arcades. Fantastic roles, very logical game made.
(I) I wanna correct Exeter's misrepresentation on the replay
(II) I'd like to request showing the boundary of rules to mods.
(I) Exeter report was filed without hearing.
So I'd like to correct his misdirecting description here.
Since hugeshlong's replay ends halfway through, please refer to this one.
Attachment 28572
1 Attachment(s)
Re: killy: 1-S2-1-5387491
Hi, I'm killy. It's my second post.
I would like to express my thanks to all Mafia players and staff here
for the great game in StarCraft Arcades. Fantastic roles, very logical game made.
(I) I wanna correct Exeter's misrepresentation on the replay
(II) I'd like to request showing the boundary of rules to mods.
(I) Exeter report was filed without hearing.
So I'd like to correct his misdirecting description here.
Since hugeshlong's replay ends halfway through, please refer to this one.
Attachment 28573
Re: killy: 1-S2-1-5387491
When was the game? --- 05/08/2022
Quote:
killy had the intention to host his hacked setup from the beginning.
--- No.
Exeter accusing has 3 elements. "intention" "to host(use/run)" "hacked"
Did you run the setup intentionally?
--- No. I didn't mean to run it.
lol(a player) requested "Caroler".
So I tried to load my caroler 8331 setup, but -slot2 was loaded by accident.
Did you want to run this?
--- No.
Tsarithus save is not balanced at all. I didn't want to play it either.
I'm repicking Tsarithus hosting
Quote:
I(Exeter) believe that that is only a charade meant to throw off any potential reports and reviewers.
--- No. Very impressive interpretation. haha
I'd be glad if you refer to the point in which I was re-adjusting weight sliders after the invalid slot was loaded.
I was thinking 'Caroler 8331 setup' was loaded at that point.
It happened just because I tried to respond to all requests in 10 seconds.
Bank editing / Bank hacking?
--- No. I haven't edited my bank file at all.
Where did the save {with Elector, Justice, Townnull} come from?
--- from Tsarthus hosting game.
Tsarthus 1-S2-1-5509679. He hosted the setup several times. I used -save2 since slot2 was free.
I'm prepared to submit the replay in the following post.
Have you edited Tsarthus' setup? --- No.
Are you trying to run the save every time you get host intentionally?
--- No. Exeter is way off.
Have you tried to run this save in the other game?
--- No. not at all. not only once.
Do you have this save now? --- No.
(I)
Since Exeter added bias with vicious intent,
and I feel that's very different from the truth,
I'd like to request to make another review again. please redo the review.
1 Attachment(s)
Re: killy: 1-S2-1-5387491
It seems my condition is the same as ChannelMiner.
Attachment 28575
-- quoted from Channel Miner post
Both of us -saved someone's setups that contain Elector. Both of us did possess them. We didn't mean to host them.
Minor differences :
| Channel miner edited the save. He used it for a bot game. Posted screenshots in public |
I(killy) didn't edit the save. During my host, -slot2 was loaded by accident
(a game with 14 AIs! I didn't have such an idea :) ) |
(II) Since Exeter is like "punish everything"
I'd like to add a comment on my Caroler 8331 save.
Where did the setup come from?
I -saved Frinckless setup
and I haven't changed it.
Bank editing / Bank hacking?
--- No
If Exeter wants to call EasterBunny bank hacking, it seems Frinckles would be the great master bank hacker.
It's not clear which part does Exeter want to punish,
So I'd like to wait for Exeter to draw more cute diagrams
And I think we can count on mods to draw a line on them.
After that, I can resume my defense if needed.
(II)
(A) Please show us the boundary of rules
(B) Announce it
(C) Apply it fairly
I'm not the one to protest the process to avoid it.
Rules are the essence of games, the very heart of them
They give structure and meaning to our small contests.
We respect rules.
2 Attachment(s)
Re: killy: 1-S2-1-5387491
Various mods have already played my EasterBunny 8331 setup more than 150 times.
I believe there should be an announcement when ChannelMiner wants to put the Xmas tree away since winter has passed.
Attachment 28576
Oh, Exeter was also playing an EB game.
Any comment / any announcement / any warning from Exeter or Admins?
--- No.
I repeat. If Mods shows the standards (A) clearly, I believe it's very nice for the community.
And it might be worth sacrificing of 2 new episodes of BetterCallSaul.
(III)
I was writing a daily record here. but it seems not a big point.
Quote:
ChannelMiner 06:17
Exeter probably wouldve reported everyone that was hosting Soldato/49er saves before they got released.
Exeter UwU 06:17
i would've, you're right
I didn't know Exeter was such an avid explorer.
I don't support you but go for it.
(2) here's the replay, Tsarthus hosting to run his save.
Attachment 28577
Good luck with your quest to solve the mystery of the saves, Exeter.
when mafia bleeds
for RavenKing reviving his enforcer more than 10 times as his zombies
for game-throwing happening constantly
. ( [5 times / 5 days, They are outing the other mafia names : MrFuzzy, hugeshlong(multiple times), suggerDaddy -> JackKern})
for tons of simple quitting that destroy matches continuously
(IV)
though " Admins and Developers hold game titles" would be true.
If game hosts have more options, and if game players can pick the most popular setups,
I believe Sc2Mafia would be better stuff...
Specifically. I'm talking about NI options for poor new neutral killers {poisoner and electromaniac}
(I know Frinckles is really sick of hearing about this :idea: ).
but I'd like to take this opportunity to comment on it.
Maybe in another thread, if I have a chance.
Thank you.
Re: killy: 1-S2-1-5387491
I have played ~50 to 100 games with killy since mafia 2.0, I can confirm that the easter bunny save is the one he has always been hosting
Re: killy: 1-S2-1-5387491
Killy, while it can understandably be considered as a loading error, your prefer choices for the reported game were :
"He then prefers a number of invalid roles ("Justice", "townnull", "townnulltwo", "Elector")"
What I do mean, is that you rarely pref these roles if you don't plan to play them, right?
Whether he has been hosting a setup with Easter Bunny is a thing.
But hosting a Stump (+Elector+Justice) setup is another thing.
So I assume you did plan to initialize this setup more than any other.
Second point being, Exeter reported this replay because there was a use of roles that should not be used.
While I don't personally believe "Bank-Hacking" to be the correct meaning here, more than hosting an illegal setup.
I also assume that you are perfectly aware that scums setup are illegal.
The first time a Stump setup was played, it was not.
That's the why and how rules are usually created.
You are rarely able to think of every possible thing a community would do.
The simple fact that Nulls (Stump) roles were present consists as an act of Griefing.
No new rule here, only an extension to the roles that are not directly named "Stump" but "Townnull1" and "Townnull2", yet being similar.
The only "new thing" present in this thread is how Caroler/EB is being planned/considered to come live as a selectable role, as well as how Elector's deletion and Justice's not-so-ready functionality should affect the use of such setups.
As also explained in supernoob's thread, and as you also stated in this thread, Killy, the only thing we ask you, is to get rid of Elector, Nulls and Justice.
Notable point being, it seems that as of today, no player will be able to load setup containing invalid roles anyway.
While we appreciate your commitment to the game, don't forget you can still report those players that make Mafia "bleed".
We will make sure to shut them down accordingly to their actions.
Re: killy: 1-S2-1-5387491
Hi Killy,
My viewpoint is same as Auwt's, who succinctly summarized the points I wanted to say.
On top of that, I just wanted to clarify some things:
(1) This report is nothing personal.
I reported other players for other hacked setups too.
I saw a problem in the community and wanted to correct it.
* * * * *
(2) You described my report as "malicious".
I disagree. I added my personal evaluation of the situation because there is room for subjectivity, and I didn't want it to cloud the judgement of this report.
For instance, you might've appealed by saying running this setup was unintentional (which you did).
Channel already presented this defense in Discord, so it was necessary for me to debunk it in my report.
I believe that my evaluation (sequence of events) was largely factual and objective.
* * * * *
(3) You said that I was wrong in saying you bankhacked to create your setups.
I concede that your setups were saved from others (Frinckles, Tsarthus).
However, I stand by my point that the original setup from Tsarthus is bankhacked (whether by him or another).
And I would not accuse Frinckles the developer of bankhacking.
Nonetheless, I recall that during Mafia 2.0 Beta when Caroler was first introduced, players were originally able to -save Caroler.
Frinckles quickly implemented a system to prevent players from doing that.
In other words, he did not intend or want players to be able to -save Caroler setups.
That, and the fact that Caroler is excluded from selectable roles in setup creation, makes it clear to me that Caroler is not intended to be part of regular setups.
However, the ruling for this issue is that Caroler / Easter Bunny is "tolerated" since they are stable roles and in Chaos Mode circulation, and I respect that decision.
* * * * *
(4) You said that I played other setups with hacked roles in the past, e.g. Elector, Justice, etc.
I assume you are pointing out my inconsistency that I did not report those occasions.
However, I stated in my report that my intention is to curb the influx of hacked setups.
In other words, I am referring to those same occasions where you saw me play setups with Elector, Justice, etc.
Therefore, there is no inconsistency.
I noticed this problem early on, and over time was frustrated to the point where I was finally motivated to take action.
* * * * *
Closing Note:
I heard that the map has been modified to prevent setups with invalid roles from starting.
In other words, this problem of invalid roles is mechanically impossible to occur in the future.
Perhaps this is the staff / developer's long-term solution to the hacked setups problem.
If so, I hope you will understand the necessity and importance of this report.
Because of such reports and the resulting discussions, the staff & developer implemented a solution to a problem plaguing the community.
Re: killy: 1-S2-1-5387491
All of these wall texts are not necessary.
Hosting a setup with invalid roles has always been under the griefing crime.
It’s the third entry under griefing here:
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/announcement.php?f=6
We can grant you an appeal Killy under the assumption you won’t do it again.
Anyway, Frinckles has made a patch so that setups with invalid roles won’t start anymore. The only exception is caroler/eb because he intends to officially add this role to the game. Therefore I think we can all just move on from this matter
Re: killy: 1-S2-1-5387491
Appeal granted, the Watchlist will be removed next update as the issue is resolved.
