S-FM High Noon (18P)

HIGH NOON

Phase Lengths: 48/24
Mechanics: No majority, dueling mechanic (explained below)
Night Chat: For mafia only
Out of Thread Communication: none except for mafia chat and dead chat.
Posting Requirement: At least 10 game-related post per day phase. At 24 hours without meeting this requirement you will be prodded, and you will be subbed out after a full phase of not meeting this requirement.
Discord for Mafia and DVC: Yes
Mafia Factional Night Kill: Yes, Unassigned.

DUELING

At any time during the day if a duel has not already started or taken place, a player may choose to initiate a duel with another player in the game by declaring Duel: playername. When a duel is started between two players, their voting ability is removed, and the remaining players can only vote between the duelists and current vote count is reset. When a majority of the non-duelists have voted for a player, that player is killed and the day continues as normal, with all players voting for an elimination.

Duels must be started within 24 hours of each day start.

Once a duel begins, a player must be voted or both duelists will die.

A duel cannot be active eight hours prior to EoD

Setup is for 14 vanilla townsfolk and 4 outlaw goons.

Dueling will NOT be enabled at MYLO/LYLO
@Marshmallow Marshall @Lag

Can people duel an unlimited number of times?

Is there a limit to how close to EoD someone can duel?

What happens if EoD is reached without a majority voting on the duel?

What happens if there is a tie in the duel vote count?
E.g 9 players left = 7 non duelists = 4 for non duel majority. 2v2 vote

I presume that you would change the number of votes to hammer during a duel to reflect the new majority, but what happens if the host is offline for the hammer? Does that lost time before the host comes back get compensated in some way?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lag

Can people duel an unlimited number of times?

Is there a limit to how close to EoD someone can duel?

What happens if EoD is reached without a majority voting on the duel?

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1) It's one duel per day but a same player can attempt to duel multiple days yes.

2) Yes a duel cannot be active 8 hours prior to EoD. If the duelists end in a tie both die so once a duel is started there is guaranteed death either way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lag

What happens if there is a tie in the duel vote count?
E.g 9 players left = 7 non duelists = 4 for non duel majority. 2v2 vote

I presume that you would change the number of votes to hammer during a duel to reflect the new majority, but what happens if the host is offline for the hammer? Does that lost time before the host comes back get compensated in some way?

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Yah majority is 50% plus 1. Ties end in death for both duelists

This game was run by TripleHaven in 2020, with 15 town and 4 mafia. Some mafias complained it was townsided even when they won, so I adjusted it for 13 town and 4 mafia here

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...8373-High-Noon

24/7 or night only chats for "outlaws"?
roles- are there some? "no oog communication except roles" throws up a question for me.
EDIT: "mountainous" in tag cloud. nvm. solved.
will you keep an eye for duels yourself, or is that an automatic function of the website? does a duel repuest need to follow a special "editing"?

24/7 for mafia chat yes

The duel mechanic is overseen by me

It would be a good idea to specify some things directly in the OP: mafia has a 24/7 chat (not just a "Night Chat"), "a duel cannot be active 8 hours prior to EoD" (the OP says "at any time during the day"), the setup is strictly mountainous (just having the two rolecards be public would be enough and would make things clearer).

Balance question open to discussion: The reason the setup was deemed townsided when it was played seems to have been the fact town has access to double the kill power. Can't town just... be wrong, though? In other words, is the ability to get more people democratically killed (via dueo or via lynch) that inherently strong for town, or does it simply amplify the effect of good/bad towns? Here, if town mislynches+misduels thrice, it loses, which seems fair enough, but is probably more wolfsided than it is townsided.

Speaking as a player and not as staff: If the phase lenght is 36/12, I will simply not sign for the game, because that is a pure torture for real life schedules in my opinion (and in my experience). I know such phases are relatively common on some other sites, but they are not here, so while you can host 36/12, I think it's a fair warning to say some players here won't sign (at least one xD). @ others, that might be good to confirm or to deny; I'm actually curious what people think of phases that aren't multiples of 24.

48/24 it is then.

I thought 36/12 was a good option because it is mountainous, you only need so muchtime to decide the factional kill target but i can see it being a pain for people with busy schedules.

And yes, All of that info will be in the OP.

It was considered townsided by my teammates whose styles were discreet and laying low.
Duels may happen out of the blue, they could be planned or being an impulsive duel, you dont know what players will do and the duel will give players a flip in the middle of the day and that can be swingy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

It would be a good idea to specify some things directly in the OP: mafia has a 24/7 chat (not just a "Night Chat"), "a duel cannot be active 8 hours prior to EoD" (the OP says "at any time during the day"), the setup is strictly mountainous (just having the two rolecards be public would be enough and would make things clearer).

Balance question open to discussion: The reason the setup was deemed townsided when it was played seems to have been the fact town has access to double the kill power. Can't town just... be wrong, though? In other words, is the ability to get more people democratically killed (via dueo or via lynch) that inherently strong for town, or does it simply amplify the effect of good/bad towns? Here, if town mislynches+misduels thrice, it loses, which seems fair enough, but is probably more wolfsided than it is townsided.

Speaking as a player and not as staff: If the phase lenght is 36/12, I will simply not sign for the game, because that is a pure torture for real life schedules in my opinion (and in my experience). I know such phases are relatively common on some other sites, but they are not here, so while you can host 36/12, I think it's a fair warning to say some players here won't sign (at least one xD). @ others, that might be good to confirm or to deny; I'm actually curious what people think of phases that aren't multiples of 24.

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+1 on having trouble with 36/12

For the champs scheduling form I rated
12/12 - 1/7
36/12 - 2/7
48/24 - 7/7
72/24 - 6/7

36/12 phases is often enough for me to not sign for a game unless it's something I'm particularly hyped for.

As for balance, I'm working on some EV project numbers for the game and will post them soon

So EV Project numbers are coming up with
15v4 - 23.82%
14v4 - 23.31%
13v4 - 19.72%

For reference, 12v3 mountainous is 24.5%
9v2 is 35.2%
7v2 is 29.8%

So all of the duel setups I mentioned are more wolf sided than any of those mountainous games. At least on paper.

I think 13v4 is likely to be a bit wolf sided. After all, wolves did end up winning the 15v4 game anyway, right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lag

So EV Project numbers are coming up with
15v4 - 23.82%
14v4 - 23.31%
13v4 - 19.72%

For reference, 12v3 mountainous is 24.5%
9v2 is 35.2%
7v2 is 29.8%

So all of the duel setups I mentioned are more wolf sided than any of those mountainous games. At least on paper.

I think 13v4 is likely to be a bit wolf sided. After all, wolves did end up winning the 15v4 game anyway, right?

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Yah But I had to hard buss two of my partners to go deep. It was not an easy win for the rest of my team, it was for me because I open wolfed the shit out of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Guillo

Yah But I had to hard buss two of my partners to go deep. It was not an easy win for the rest of my team, it was for me because I open wolfed the shit out of it.

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I would argue that part of what makes mountainous difficult for town is that there's much less to counter bussing than other setups.

But that aside, by the numbers, 13v4 duelling is just a little bit more wolfsided than a 10v3 mountainous game.
And while 10v3 is playable, it's rather difficult for town.

You might consider nerfing town to 14v4 rather than 13v4?

Although ultimately all three variants (15v4, 14v4, 13v4) are going to be within a playable range of balance so we'll leave the final call up to you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lag

I would argue that part of what makes mountainous difficult for town is that there's much less to counter bussing than other setups.

But that aside, by the numbers, 13v4 duelling is just a little bit more wolfsided than a 10v3 mountainous game.
And while 10v3 is playable, it's rather difficult for town.

You might consider nerfing town to 14v4 rather than 13v4?

Although ultimately all three variants (15v4, 14v4, 13v4) are going to be within a playable range of balance so we'll leave the final call up to you.

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I can do 14vs4, heck I would do 15vs4, if we could do it, so can you. But I don't know if I can pull off recruiting 19 players to play a mountainous here.

I think 14vs4 is doable but if there is hype for the game, it could become 15vs4

13v4 doesn't seem that scumsided to me
Having a large scum team is bad, not good

Alright, it's been edited out with new update

Hypothetical question:

No one has started a duel yet and there it's 8 hours and 1 minute before EoD.

Could someone theoretically duel someone, have the 8 hour mark be reached causing the duel to expire, tied at 0-0, resulting in both players dying?

Alternatively, someone could duel at the 8 hour and 1 minute mark before EoD, then a single other person votes in the duel - resulting in that single vote deciding the outcome of the duel?


One solution would be to add an additional requirement like a duel must be started in the first 24 hours of the day phase

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lag

Hypothetical question:

No one has started a duel yet and there it's 8 hours and 1 minute before EoD.

Could someone theoretically duel someone, have the 8 hour mark be reached causing the duel to expire, tied at 0-0, resulting in both players dying?

Alternatively, someone could duel at the 8 hour and 1 minute mark before EoD, then a single other person votes in the duel - resulting in that single vote deciding the outcome of the duel?


One solution would be to add an additional requirement like a duel must be started in the first 24 hours of the day phase

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No lol. With one minute left i just ignore it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lag

Hypothetical question:

No one has started a duel yet and there it's 8 hours and 1 minute before EoD.

Could someone theoretically duel someone, have the 8 hour mark be reached causing the duel to expire, tied at 0-0, resulting in both players dying?

Alternatively, someone could duel at the 8 hour and 1 minute mark before EoD, then a single other person votes in the duel - resulting in that single vote deciding the outcome of the duel?


One solution would be to add an additional requirement like a duel must be started in the first 24 hours of the day phase

---

That is actually a great solution

Updated!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Guillo

No lol. With one minute left i just ignore it.

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Where do you draw the line then? 10 minutes left? 1 hour left? Depending on when EoD time is, it is conceivable that the period of time between 9 hours till EoD and 8 hours till EoD could be the middle of night for players and so someone doing a sneaky duel at that point could have the same effect

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lag

Where do you draw the line then? 10 minutes left? 1 hour left? Depending on when EoD time is, it is conceivable that the period of time between 9 hours till EoD and 8 hours till EoD could be the middle of night for players and so someone doing a sneaky duel at that point could have the same effect

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Posted this before I saw your most recent posts.

This setup is Approved!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lag

Where do you draw the line then? 10 minutes left? 1 hour left? Depending on when EoD time is, it is conceivable that the period of time between 9 hours till EoD and 8 hours till EoD could be the middle of night for players and so someone doing a sneaky duel at that point could have the same effect

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No you are right, i actually temember TripleHaven stating the same, i just missed it i guess

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lag

Posted this before I saw your most recent posts.

This setup is Approved!

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Yaaaay!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Guillo

I can do 14vs4, heck I would do 15vs4, if we could do it, so can you. But I don't know if I can pull off recruiting 19 players to play a mountainous here.

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Although the number is quite high, I am not worried about the moutainous side: this is probably the spiciest mountainous game we've tried in a long time. I'm going to mark this as 18P for ease of access to information anyway, since it corresponds to the OP.

When can i run this set up?