Five-Sided Town Forum Mafia - Future Plans

Yeah, I'm dead serious. Since first Five-Sided Town Mini-FM has been made already polular, I decided to start planning to make this game as a full fledged Forum Mafia. It's not like it's going to happen in a month, two months, or even half-year, but I'm showing to you that it is indeed possible.

Of course, this is not a work that I can do all alone by myself, so in the future I may need some help from experienced co-host.

In this setup, there will be 5 teams. Five! And each team will have 4 members. Plus there will be 10-15 neutral roles which goal will be either to survive or support the team that they have decided to favor.

Those 5 teams are: Police Department, Town Militia, The Outlaws, Mafia, and The Tycoons. With 5 teams, that make 20 players total, so the remaining 10-15 players will be neutral Citizens or other hidden roles. Here is the list of factions:

Police Member
Police Member
Police Member
Police Member

Militia Member
Militia Member
Militia Member
Militia Member

Outlaw Member
Outlaw Member
Outlaw Member
Outlaw Member

Mafia Member
Mafia Member
Mafia Member
Mafia Member

Tycoon Member
Tycoon Member
Tycoon Member
Tycoon Member

Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen/Hidden Neutral
Citizen/Hidden Neutral
Citizen/Hidden Neutral

...and up to 5 more Citizens/ 2 more Hidden Neutrals

The primary goal of each team is to defeat their corresponding enemies and then at least one member of the team must survive until the game ends. Here is how it looks:

The Police must lynch or kill all Outlaws and Mafia
The Militia must lynch or kill all Mafia and Tycoons
The Outlaws must lynch or kill all Tycoons and Police
The Mafia must lynch or kill all Police and Militia
The Tycoons must lynch or kill all Militia and Outlaws

It is possible to make alliances between some teams. No more than 2 teams can win the game (for example Police & Tycoons, or Militia & Outlaws). Another example is, that if you are on Mafia Team, you can choose to ally with Outlaws or Tycoons, but not both, since they are hostile to each other. Also, it is entirely possible for one single team to be the sole winner of the game. Winning for yourself is always better than sharing your victory with others (and I will introduce to you The Mastermind which presence can shatter alliances).

Due to the way the teams are set up, the voting system is changed. It now becomes a simple majority (most votes). Whoever gets the most votes when day ends will be lynched. If two or more players are tied, then day ends with no lynch.

ROLE LIST AND TEAM ABILITIES (subject to changes)


Police Department

Shared Ability:
Check Background: Check target player for being a member of Mafia or Outlaws. Anyone else will show up as "not suspicious". Only one member of Police team can use this ability at night.

Possible Roles:

Sheriff: Basic role, can only use shared ability.
Sleuth: Can read target player's last will. Also can learn the exact role of a dead player.
Detective: Check target player to see whom he visited.
Investigator: Check target player for possible roles.
Jailor: Jails target person, roleblocking and locking him out of team chats. The jailed person gains night immunity. Jailor can make 1 execution. Cannot perform basic action while jailing someone.
Bodyguard: Chooses one player to protect and one person to keep an eye on. Will kill the attacker and sacrifice his life unless he kept an eye on the attacker.


Town Militia

Shared Ability:
Recruit: If target player is a Citizen (or Journalist), he becomes Mason after being recruited. If all three original members of Militia die, the Militia team loses and Masons revert back to neutral Citizens (losing faith in Militia). Non-Citizens will be notified that someone tried to recruit then, and if you try to visit a member of Mafia or Tycoons, he will know your identity. Only one member of Militia team can use this ability at night.


Possible roles:

Mason Leader: Basic role, can only use shared ability. Will appear as Mason to investigative roles.
Vigilante: Can kill a person at night. Limited to 2 shots.
Doctor: Can heal any person, including his own teammates.
Lookout: Can watch a person to see who visited him this night.
Journalist: Takes an interview from a player at the beginning of the night. The interview will be posted on the next day. Cannot perform basic action while interviewing someone.
Armorsmith: Gives armor to target player. Your target cannot be member of Militia (but he can be Citizen beforehand). If your target is member of another team, that player's whole team can decide who will use the armor next night.

Mason: Can only use shared ability. Citizens will turn into Masons after being recruited.


The Outlaws

Shared Ability:
Ignite and Burn: Douses target player (who will be notified), or burn up all doused targets. Only one member of Outlaw team can use this ability at night.

Possible roles:

Outlaw: Basic role, can only use shared ability.
Drug Dealer: Drugs target player, making him to believe that he was doused, charged, bribed, switched, or roleblocked.
Escort: Roleblock target player, preventing him from performing any actions.
Electro Maniac: Charges target player, or kill already charged player. When one charged person visits another, they both electrocute.
Framer: Frames target player, giving investigative roles false information either at random, or at Framer's choice.
Grave Robber: Robs target player's grave and immediately uses his ability. Each grave can be pillaged only once.


The Mafia

Shared Ability:
License to Kill: Kill target player at night. Only one member of Mafia team can use this ability at night.

Roles:

Mafioso: Basic role, can only use shared ability.
Godfather: Immune all kinds of detection, will show up as inactive Citizen to investigative roles.
Janitor: Cleans the target's role and last will. Limited to 2 cleanings.
Blackmailer: Blackmails target person, allowing him only to speak phrase "I am blackmailed" and vote. If blackmailed person disobeys him, he will be shot with silenced gun by Mafia (if they are alive) at day.
Consigliere: Check target player for possible roles.
Enforcer: Targets a player. That player cannot be bribed or recruited by Militia.


The Tycoons:

Shared Ability:
Bribe: Bribe target player with large sum of money, alluring him to visit another target player or do nothing (effectively roleblocking him). Briber can notify the victim who is his new target. Only one member of Tycoon team can use this ability at night.

Roles:
Tycoon: Basic role, can only use shared ability.
Security Guard: Can go on alert up to 2 times. Will kill anyone (not in Tycoon team) who tries to visit him. Will NOT kill players that were bribed to visit him.
Bus Driver: Can switch two target players. Can target teammates as well (including Security Guard on alert).
Merchant: Target one player and leak that player's possible role list to another non-Tycoon player.
Gunsmith: Gives gun to target player. Your target cannot be member of Tycoons. If your target is member of another team, that player's whole team can decide who will use the gun next night. Extra shot can be used by Mafia as well.
Actor/Actress: At night targets a player. When dies, will appear as that target's role.

The major difference of a full Forum Mafia game from Mini-FM is the inclusion of a good amount of neutral roles. Here is what you can expect:

Neutral Roles:

Citizen: Can choose a faction to side with on first night. To win, he needs either to help that faction win, or just survive until the game ends.
Jester: His goal is to make town lynch him at day.
Executioner: His goal is to see his target lynched. Target can be a member of one of the faction, or just an ordinary Citizen. Will turn into Jester if his target dies at night.
Amnesiac: Can remember any role from a graveyard. Must pick a role in order to enable his win condition. New role is revealed to town.
Spree Killer: Will kill anyone who visited his target's house (including the target if they are still inside).His goal is to kill anyone else except for Neutral Roles. Has one passive vest.
Student: Becomes a disciple of target player, and learns his alignment. Has the same win condition as his mentor, and gets his role if mentor dies. New role is revealed to town.
Survivor: His goal is to simply survive until the game ends.
Hitman: Can choose a client during the day asking them for a job. As soon as the command is ordered, the to-be client can either accept or decline. If accepted, the client is roleblocked during night but he will pick a person for the you to kill. Hitman's goal is to complete at least 3 contracts and survive until game ends. Hitman has one passive vest.

The Mastermind: Is hiding inside one of the five factions. His goal is to see all four other factions to lose, and make his faction the sole winner of the game. Each time a faction loses the game, The Mastermind gains the basic ability of that faction. The Mastermind cannot be killed at night - he can only be lynched at day or executed in jail.

Keep in mind - this is just a LONG-term plan, it's not something that can be organized so quickly.

Citizen/Mason/Mason Leader/Godfather/Jester
Sheriff/Investigator/Merchant/Consigliere/Executioner
Sleuth/Janitor/Grave Robber
Detective/Blackmailer/Tycoon
Lookout/Framer/Security Guard
Jailor/Electro Maniac
Vigilante/Mafioso/Hitman
Outlaw/Bus Driver
Bodyguard/Escort/Doctor/Spree Killer
Armorsmith/Gunsmith/Drug Dealer
Enforcer/Journalist/Actor
Student/Amnesiac/Survivor

I hope you realize that you can't really host this at all. There's too many players in the roles list for this to be considered a M-FM. Don't lie and say that it's a "S-FM", whatever that means.

I liked Five Sided Town.
But now I think your over doing it making it a big game like this.

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I hope you realize that you can't really host this at all. There's too many players in the roles list for this to be considered a M-FM. Don't lie and say that it's a "S-FM", whatever that means.

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Yeah, I'm dead serious. Since first Five-Sided Town Mini-FM has been made already polular, I decided to start planning to make this game as a full fledged Forum Mafia.

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Originally Posted by TheJackofSpades

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what's with your avatar. stop promoting illuminati

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Originally Posted by TheJackofSpades

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How does he plan to get on the list of hostings? It'll be a LOOOOONG while before he gets anything done. That's why I said M-FM and not FM. You were not looking at the right factors, my friend.

I told you only that this is just a possibility. Don't take this too seriously.

Meanwhile, I am going to take a break from hosting M-FMs for a while (as the fire from the sky still falls). Still needs some remarks of the balance of the game though.

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Originally Posted by Fragos

Still needs some remarks of the balance of the game though.

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Your setup is similar to FM6 game mechanic wise... citizens are survivors, you might want to reconsider that, FM6 is something most of us are trying to forget.

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Originally Posted by Yayap

Your setup is similar to FM6 game mechanic wise... citizens are survivors, you might want to reconsider that, FM6 is something most of us are trying to forget.

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Repressed....can't shake.....horror....MAKE IT STOP!!!!

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Originally Posted by Yayap

Your setup is similar to FM6 game mechanic wise... citizens are survivors, you might want to reconsider that, FM6 is something most of us are trying to forget.

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https://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/.../639/T1zr7.gif

Fragos, as said already by Escaho: Every faction should have the possibility of killing with their shared ability, or else there's a chance of things getting unbalanced. I know that the militia and police are meant to have their power based in day-lynches and citizen support, but the first five sided town game proved that this doesn't always work out when the "scum" almost always have multiple guaranteed night kills EVERY NIGHT.

As Escaho suggested, why not change the Police and Militia shared abilities to jail/vigi kill respectively.

Well... all factions should be able to kill at night and possess at least one protective role. Furthermore, each faction should have roles that can counter opposing factions.

Try adding in voting shenanigans. Mayor vote, vote block, changed vote, etc.
Also graveyard confusion.

No, I don't like the idea of extra vote/graveyard shit. Unless Frag comes up with a cool way of doing it, I'd rather it just stayed at elected mayor or anything.

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Originally Posted by Dust

How does he plan to get on the list of hostings? It'll be a LOOOOONG while before he gets anything done. That's why I said M-FM and not FM. You were not looking at the right factors, my friend.

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So your counter-point is that you said something completely irrelevant because he never intended it to be a M-FM in the first place... because you automatically wrote off the possibility that someone else might be willing to champion this setup? That it could never happen?

Why did you even post then? You tried to insult him for not knowing how big a M-FM game could be, essentially, when he clearly states it's not intended for MFM.

You got a grudge or something?

Why are you using the Game Master account for posting here, Jack?

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Originally Posted by FM Game Master

So your counter-point is that you said something completely irrelevant because he never intended it to be a M-FM in the first place... because you automatically wrote off the possibility that someone else might be willing to champion this setup? That it could never happen?

Why did you even post then? You tried to insult him for not knowing how big a M-FM game could be, essentially, when he clearly states it's not intended for MFM.

You got a grudge or something?

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You really are out of the loop. Yes, I do have a grudge against Fragos. In Kromos' M-FM, on the last day, Fragos convinced the town to vote against me with the promise of "good roles in the 5 sided town game". This would have been all right had it not been for his gloating afterward.

And for some reason, Rihfok and GriM both got PRs in the game while I didn't. Now I can't prove anything. I know that. But I feel that something sketchy was going on.

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Originally Posted by Dust

You really are out of the loop. Yes, I do have a grudge against Fragos. In Kromos' M-FM, on the last day, Fragos convinced the town to vote against me with the promise of "good roles in the 5 sided town game". This would have been all right had it not been for his gloating afterward.

And for some reason, Rihfok and GriM both got PRs in the game while I didn't. Now I can't prove anything. I know that. But I feel that something sketchy was going on.

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And you think he's the only person who has ever rigged their setup?

Haha. Who is out of the loop, again?

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Originally Posted by FM Game Master

And you think he's the only person who has ever rigged their setup?

Haha. Who is out of the loop, again?

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I don't ever think that. If you think that I ever thought that, you must be high off of your arrogance.

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Originally Posted by Dust

I don't ever think that. If you think that I ever thought that, you must be high off of your arrogance.

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So you're aware of it, which means you know who has and who hasn't, which means you don't have a problem with it because you haven't brought it up so far.

So why do you have a problem with Fragos doing it as well, again?

Because you're a hypocrite, I guess.

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Originally Posted by FM Game Master

So you're aware of it, which means you know who has and who hasn't, which means you don't have a problem with it because you haven't brought it up so far.

So why do you have a problem with Fragos doing it as well, again?

Because you're a hypocrite, I guess.

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I have a problem with it because he was doing to spite me.

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Originally Posted by Dust

I have a problem with it because he was doing to spite me.

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If, indeed, he did rig the setup.

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Originally Posted by Dust

I have a problem with it because he was doing to spite me.

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No, if he did do it, he did it to keep his end of the bargain.

Hurr.

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Originally Posted by FM Game Master

No, if he did do it, he did it to keep his end of the bargain.

Hurr.

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That's the problem! It's unethical and un-sportsman-like to do something like that in a game. He used out-of-game incentives to get people to do something to win a game. It's like if in previous games, you saying in FM11, "Okay guys, I'll let you guys get a good role if you work to gamethrow in my favor"

Do you see my problem now?

So...you've taken all of our advice to heart and read what we thought about the game balance and...decided to change nothing except add two new roles (and a few extra neutrals)?

You realize the main problem with the game was the fact that the Citizens did not want to participate because they had no need to participate. Surviving until the end of the game is not incentive. They merely need to claim Citizen and then do nothing but sit there and vote whenever they feel like it. You are also missing the biggest problem with the Militia: Recruited Citizens that are not allies/aligned with the Militia (such as the Mafia-aligned Citizen) can immediately give up all members of the Militia once recruited so that they can all be shot/targeted by their enemies.

In a setup like this, you also don't necessarily need cannon fodder (Citizens). What if you tried giving them a one-use role (i.e. - a one-night investigation) so that they can gather information at night? Something to break the tedium of doing nothing each day.

Escaho brought out a big problem that really needs rethinking. All Citizens would have incentive to join mafia. First one that gets recruited gives out all names "Technically Gamethrows" and then wins with the mafia.

Balancing the win conditions is harder than it seems especially for those with non canon roles such as the neutrals.

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Originally Posted by Dust

That's the problem! It's unethical and un-sportsman-like to do something like that in a game. He used out-of-game incentives to get people to do something to win a game. It's like if in previous games, you saying in FM11, "Okay guys, I'll let you guys get a good role if you work to gamethrow in my favor"

Do you see my problem now?

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But isn't the FM mantra "Use whatever is at your disposal to win"?

Is it unethical that he followed through with it?

If he hadn't, would it have been a viable strategy?

If yes to both questions, how does it make sense that it is in fact less ethical that he kept his end of the bargain than if he had exploited a position of power and backstabbed those who helped him out?

Aren't the people who are truly to blame those who accepted the bribe?

Shouldn't you have an issue with them instead, not the person trying his best to win?

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Originally Posted by TheJackofSpades

But isn't the FM mantra "Use whatever is at your disposal to win"?

Is it unethical that he followed through with it?

If he hadn't, would it have been a viable strategy?

If yes to both questions, how does it make sense that it is in fact less ethical that he kept his end of the bargain than if he had exploited a position of power and backstabbed those who helped him out?

Aren't the people who are truly to blame those who accepted the bribe?

Shouldn't you have an issue with them instead, not the person trying his best to win?

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If you really thought that's the mantra then you should have allowed Claw to out his teammates. The jailor just got something and so should be able to benefit.

It was unethical to offer it in the first place. A M-FM is an inappropriate location to offer good roles. In one M-FM I was offered the choice to choose my alignment as long as I decided to play (I had said that I couldn't play that game). It was offered in a PM and not in a game environment.

No.

This question requires two yeses. Neither question was answered with "yes"

I am upset with them but it doesn't excuse Fragos.

Stop pretending to have the moral high ground here. I know that I'm right here.

I guess people forget that I also extended a bribe in FMV's epilogue for FM-X. Picture got deleted so you won't find it now.

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Originally Posted by Yayap

I guess people forget that I also extended a bribe in FMV's epilogue for FM-X. Picture got deleted so you won't find it now.

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But that was the epilogue, not the actual game. If it were the actual game, I would have had a problem with it.

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Originally Posted by Dust

If you really thought that's the mantra then you should have allowed Claw to out his teammates. The jailor just got something and so should be able to benefit.

It was unethical to offer it in the first place. A M-FM is an inappropriate location to offer good roles. In one M-FM I was offered the choice to choose my alignment as long as I decided to play (I had said that I couldn't play that game). It was offered in a PM and not in a game environment.

No.

This question requires two yeses. Neither question was answered with "yes"

I am upset with them but it doesn't excuse Fragos.

Stop pretending to have the moral high ground here. I know that I'm right here.

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Lol. Point out one sentence in anything I've said that has stated my stance on this issue. As far as I know it's hard to take the moral high-ground on something when you have yet to state your actual opinion.

No, I'm just getting to know how you think.

If you really must know, I believe that it's just another abuse of metagame concepts that should be completely looked down upon. The fact that it hasn't spilled over elsewhere until now must be a sign of how far the ethics of those involved has fallen.

There are lines that must be drawn, not everything can be "fair game". I took this stance on the advent of the "leave cult alone and wait to be culted for easy victory" strategy in the early days of FM(ignore FM5, I was... biased, at the time.) When Cap found out Philie's FM name out of game, not once did we ever ask for it.

One thing I don't agree with you about, however, is the fact that this same ethical quandry(giving out roles for favors) is only unethical if it stems from an in-game situation. Let's be honest, getting a role that is interesting is the whole reason most of us play the game. The most exciting part of the game is finding out your role, and making a game plan. Should the opportunity be torn away from you because some guy got promised a role simply for participating? I don't think so, personally, and unlike most hosts I hard-randomed my list of players into their roles, no redos.

That being said, I don't think that Fragos' actions warrant you treating him like he's stupid. If you keep that up, people might start thinking the same about you as they do about me.

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Originally Posted by TheJackofSpades

That being said, I don't think that Fragos' actions warrant you treating him like he's stupid. If you keep that up, people might start thinking the same about you as they do about me.

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I don't especially care for Dust's arrogance which can get far too out of proportion the majority of the time. That being said, people already think of Dust as they think of you.

But that aside, Dust is right about Fragos. Fragos doesn't listen when people offer suggestions, or even listen at all to any type of constructive criticism (not that he's the only one) and constantly tries to undermine everyone else on the forum to get what he wants faster, much to the dismay of everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Dust

But that was the epilogue, not the actual game. If it were the actual game, I would have had a problem with it.

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But that bribe came into effect FM8 in-game... If you forgot what the bribe was, here is a little reminder:

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Originally Posted by TheJackofSpades

Lol. Point out one sentence in anything I've said that has stated my stance on this issue. As far as I know it's hard to take the moral high-ground on something when you have yet to state your actual opinion.

No, I'm just getting to know how you think.

If you really must know, I believe that it's just another abuse of metagame concepts that should be completely looked down upon. The fact that it hasn't spilled over elsewhere until now must be a sign of how far the ethics of those involved has fallen.

There are lines that must be drawn, not everything can be "fair game". I took this stance on the advent of the "leave cult alone and wait to be culted for easy victory" strategy in the early days of FM(ignore FM5, I was... biased, at the time.) When Cap found out Philie's FM name out of game, not once did we ever ask for it.

One thing I don't agree with you about, however, is the fact that this same ethical quandry(giving out roles for favors) is only unethical if it stems from an in-game situation. Let's be honest, getting a role that is interesting is the whole reason most of us play the game. The most exciting part of the game is finding out your role, and making a game plan. Should the opportunity be torn away from you because some guy got promised a role simply for participating? I don't think so, personally, and unlike most hosts I hard-randomed my list of players into their roles, no redos.

That being said, I don't think that Fragos' actions warrant you treating him like he's stupid. If you keep that up, people might start thinking the same about you as they do about me.

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Jack, the reason why I thought you thought you had the moral high-ground was because you were attacking my position. Now that I see your position is closer to mine that I thought, I'm not going to be as offensive.

That game that I was promised a role? Well, I was...biased at the time. My viewpoint remains that it is wrong to give out favors. intentional satire

Spoiler : Real Opinion :

I only know of that one incident with myself (I didn't use a single night action and I lost on night 2. So...meh). I really don't know about other hosts. I think that it was the only instance of it happening. I've only hosted one game and I, too, randomed the roles list but that in that game it didn't really matter. All the roles were involved and imho fun. I think it's a problem and I've thought about it but cannot come up with a solution. Eventually trust is needed. Unfortunately, trust is in short supply in these forums.

Right now, you're treating me like one would treat a housefly, an annoyance but a small one and not worthy of much value. What gives you the right to treat me that way and preach about how I should treat Fragos? What have I done to you that so hurts your ego? How have I wronged you?

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Originally Posted by Deathfire123

I don't especially care for Dust's arrogance which can get far too out of proportion the majority of the time. That being said, people already think of Dust as they think of you.

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I hope it's only a few people....

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Originally Posted by Deathfire123

But that aside, Dust is right about Fragos. Fragos doesn't listen when people offer suggestions, or even listen at all to any type of constructive criticism (not that he's the only one) and constantly tries to undermine everyone else on the forum to get what he wants faster, much to the dismay of everyone else.

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Thank you for your understanding. I'm just more vocal about it because of the M-FM crap that went down.

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Originally Posted by Yayap

But that bribe came into effect FM8 in-game... If you forgot what the bribe was, here is a little reminder:

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Huh, I don't remember that in FM8. God it's been a while.

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Originally Posted by Deathfire123

I don't especially care for Dust's arrogance which can get far too out of proportion the majority of the time. That being said, people already think of Dust as they think of you.

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My, how easy it is for you to condescend me, yet arrogance is apparently my forte.

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But that aside, Dust is right about Fragos. Fragos doesn't listen when people offer suggestions, or even listen at all to any type of constructive criticism (not that he's the only one) and constantly tries to undermine everyone else on the forum to get what he wants faster, much to the dismay of everyone else.

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You've just described nearly everyone on this forum. Move along, please.

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Right now, you're treating me like one would treat a housefly, an annoyance but a small one and not worthy of much value. What gives you the right to treat me that way and preach about how I should treat Fragos? What have I done to you that so hurts your ego? How have I wronged you?

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I'm sorry you feel that way. I was just offering you some free advice, most people don't take kindly to non-conformity around here. If that's the road you choose to walk down, fine. Just be prepared.

Condescension isn't arrogance, and ad hominem isn't proper in an actual argument

I find it funny that some here are arguing that bribery and corruption is an ethical conduct.

EDIT: Town still have a sliver of hope to win. If giving favors to ask for gamethrowing is ethical...

As for Fragos' lurking citizens, why not make them compete among themselves and with the color factions?
1) If the two winning faction did not lose any starting roles, only 2 citizens may win.
2) Each citizen takes up 2 role slots for factions
3) Neutrals, like faction roles take up one slot
Thus with 2 winning faction (1 role left each), a total of 2+6/2 = 5 citizens may win. Even less if there are neutral roles.

dudes... this is a game... on a forum... on a computer... seriously lighten up... people make their games the way the want them... if you don't like it don't join... this isn't life or death, no one should have to conform to ideas you have... if your so brilliant, show it by makin the best game ever made...

btw /Sign if you do ;)

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Originally Posted by SirBlayzalot

dudes... this is a game... on a forum... on a computer... seriously lighten up... people make their games the way the want them... if you don't like it don't join... this isn't life or death, no one should have to conform to ideas you have... if your so brilliant, show it by makin the best game ever made...

btw /Sign if you do ;)

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First of all, you are out of the loop on the ethics debate.

Second, it's called opinions and constructive criticism. That's how setups improve and become balanced.

Third, I welcome your goodwill but some of us here are no hold barred.

sorry no offense intended xD

I just see alot of cool people here... a few trolls

but all in all we all come together for the love of mystery, logic, and lateral thinking... I don't see why we have to be so divided amongst ourselves... it seems like the group as a whole has broken off into cliques, one insulting the other and then the other getting defensive and lashing back... this is how wars start people....

can't we all just get along :D

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Originally Posted by Deathfire123

Condescension isn't arrogance, and ad hominem isn't proper in an actual argument

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Actually, condescension is a sign of arrogance. You perceive yourself as superior to me, all that's left is for you to admit it. But I digress.

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Originally Posted by TheJackofSpades

Actually, condescension is a sign of arrogance. You perceive yourself as superior to me, all that's left is for you to admit it. But I digress.

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I don't think it really matters if I'm superior to you or not, I don't care. The problem is that you seem to care so much about thinks their superior to you and who actually is. Superiority complexes are dangerous and would be one of the reasons a lot of people think you deserve the same treatment as False and Muso

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Originally Posted by Deathfire123

I don't think it really matters if I'm superior to you or not, I don't care. The problem is that you seem to care so much about thinks their superior to you and who actually is. Superiority complexes are dangerous and would be one of the reasons a lot of people think you deserve the same treatment as False and Muso

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A lot of people?
Name them.

Sadly, I don't perceive myself as superior to any of you. The only reason you get that impression is that I am constantly disappointed in your inability to meet me as an equal.

Jack,

1. Bribery and FM corruption is wrong, no matter how many other exploitations that take place in this forum.

2. Calm those fiery stallions which you call an ego.

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Originally Posted by Ubernox

Jack,

1. Bribery and FM corruption is wrong, no matter how many other exploitations that take place in this forum.

2. Calm those fiery stallions which you call an ego.

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How about you read what I say before you tell me what I already know?

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Originally Posted by FM Game Master

A lot of people?
Name them.

Sadly, I don't perceive myself as superior to any of you. The only reason you get that impression is that I am constantly disappointed in your inability to meet me as an equal.

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I want to meet you as an equal and have fun in the game we both love. But with your constant attacks against me and my friends, you aren't making it easy for me to be tolerant

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Originally Posted by Deathfire123

I want to meet you as an equal and have fun in the game we both love. But with your constant attacks against me and my friends, you aren't making it easy for me to be tolerant

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You're the one who resorts to trying to fit my personality into a small box.

You take such issue with one person attacking you, yet cannot see how I cannot possibly quell my rage when many attack me constantly based on false assumptions. It is truly baffling.

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Originally Posted by FM Game Master

You're the one who resorts to trying to fit my personality into a small box.

You take such issue with one person attacking you, yet cannot see how I cannot possibly quell my rage when many attack me constantly based on false assumptions. It is truly baffling.

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I don't attack you on false assumptions, I attack you when you're asking to be attacked

+1

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Originally Posted by Deathfire123

I don't attack you on false assumptions, I attack you when you're asking to be attacked

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So do I.

You've burned my olive branch, so the cycle shall go on.

Fragos' future plans in tatters.

Fucking Jack. Again.

The other thread got closed so now they continue the fight here...

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Originally Posted by FM Game Master

So do I.

You've burned my olive branch, so the cycle shall go on.

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Can you two take this to PM? Or, at the very least, not in a future FM setup thread.

Back on topic, to repeat:

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Originally Posted by Nick

As for Fragos' lurking citizens, why not make them compete among themselves and with the color factions?
1) If the two winning faction did not lose any starting roles, only 2 citizens may win.
2) Each citizen takes up 2 role slots for factions
3) Neutrals, like faction roles take up one slot
Thus with 2 winning faction (1 role left each), a total of 2+6/2 = 5 citizens may win. Even less if there are neutral roles.

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Do it FMVI style. Number of slots Mastermind take depends if you want citizen to side with him or not.

And please make it so that each faction CAN KILL.

EDIT: Maybe except militia who recruits

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Originally Posted by Deathfire123

I don't especially care for Dust's arrogance which can get far too out of proportion the majority of the time. That being said, people already think of Dust as they think of you.

But that aside, Dust is right about Fragos. Fragos doesn't listen when people offer suggestions, or even listen at all to any type of constructive criticism (not that he's the only one) and constantly tries to undermine everyone else on the forum to get what he wants faster, much to the dismay of everyone else.

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Note how Deathfire started this "argument", yet I am to blame.

not make war you two i am war you love you please peace

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Originally Posted by FM Game Master

Note how Deathfire started this "argument", yet I am to blame.

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lol