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S-FM 354: Short Fuse Mafia
Player-list (determined upon Day 1):
1. Helz
2. Mizery
3.Marshmallow Marshall
4. scumbot5679
5.Cape90
6. powerofdeath
7.Luka
8.Frinckles
Ordering to be randomly determined at SoD1, depending on if the Mafia Goons decide if they want to be seated behind (i.e. be able to /detonate to kill) a mafia or town.
Spoiler : full/official setup (don't rely on what the signups said, it was incomplete) :
Extended Night 0 has begun, as roles have been sent out, and will end on Saturday, 8 PM EDT. Check your discord DMs for a relative timestamp that I put in there.
Day 1 has begun! The player-list/ordering is as follows:
@Helz
@Mizery
@Marshmallow Marshall
@scumbot5679
@Cape90
@powerofdeath
Luka
@Frinckles
If you "/detonate", you will kill the next living person listed directly below you (Luka would kill Frinkcles, Frinckles would kill Helz, Helz would kill Mizery, ect). I will be checking in every-so-often (depending on how busy I am, I can't make any promises as to how often, sorry) and once I see a person has triggered a /detonate will said killed person be registered as dead. If I am not aware you've been detonated/killed, you are considered alive until I am aware. The time prior to that but after the "/detonate" will count towards reducing the 24 hour cooldown, regardless of my awareness.
5 votes to hammer.
Day 1 ends in 48 hours from now. I'll be sending timestamps to you all in a discord DM very soon, so you can know what time that is in your timezone.
/detonate
Rip cape
welp
rip @Luka
he was hapless citizen
rip
Ok I read that wrong
So that means if I detonated I would kill mm not helz?
4 votes to hammer.
Forgot to adjust the majority requirement since now 4 is a majority.
YeaQuote:
Originally Posted by Mizery
i'll be killing frinckles in 24 hours unless cape kill me first
Yes. I might as well write it all out currently:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizery
Helz kills Mizery
Mizery kills Marshmallow Marshall
Marshmallow Marshall kills scumbot5679
scumbot5679 kills Cape90
Cape90 kills powerofdeath
powerofdeath kills Frinckles (although powerofdeath is on cool-down so any /detonate that is said before 24 hours have passed will not work)
Frinckles kills Helz (since Frinckles is at bottom of list, it wraps around)
Uhm cape hurry up and kill him
-vote powerofdeath
I mean we had to all know someone would instashoot but it's like still bad
it really is tempting to just insta shoot that
Unfamiliar with everyone except POD, this should be fun :D. Seen Frinckles in champs
would i make myself such a big target as mafia hmm?
big wifom incoming:
idc what you do with me
why do you think i haven't deto'd u?Quote:
Originally Posted by powerofdeath
I also don't trust Miz enough yet to know how bad faith his push to deto you is
also it will become "vote wrong and lose" if PoD is citizen, but IDK how much that matters
because of that, it makes me slightly concerned about the WIFOM post though
It's not good faith or bad faith it's policyQuote:
Originally Posted by Cape90
I'm noting that you didn't take a side at all tho just noted it and the way you did that I'm not a complete fan of
The way you worded that is just so strange to me
Would a wolf come into thread though and just straight up push me for trying to kill someone for doing something that no doubt everyone wants to do?
Because waffling on that isn't really wolfy it's just strange in the way that you seemed to emphasize that you don't know if you can trust me yet instead of taking a side/forming an opinion
you seem to be thinking like mafia here and I don't like thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Mizery
why should I take a side there? I know immediately detonating is not great, I mean they literally killed someone who didn't even get a chance to play the game. I don't particularly think their deto is AI and all me detoing will do is just cause a stupid chain to happen and for mafia to win. Which kinda sounds like maybe what u want ;)
By your logic me policy detoing would be stupid because AS YOU SAID
Meaning you KNOW it isn't particularly AI eitherQuote:
I mean we had to all know someone would instashoot...
but you know i HAVE to take a side even though more then half the players left haven't posted
Never said you had to take a side, the way you worded that you specifically like "did not know if I trust mizery" or wtv you said was just like, that didn't need to be said and instead you like said it
Also do you mean nai
Gotta be honest not understanding a lot of what ur saying rn
Oh, I apologize, that means "not alignment indicative" meaning I believe you want to policy someone for reasons that I could see both town and mafia do with no real leaning one way or the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizery
Like as for myself, I would rather play to my win condition, which is to kill mafia rather then just killing people for bad plays.
So mechanically-
If wolves are behind 2 townies:
6T 2W
-1 from POD detonating on Luka
-1 from Lynch
4T 2W entering D2
-2 from double wolf detonation and we loose
We could WIFOM all day about if wolves would want the kill insulation or the extra day kill but this is a bad place to be in. If there is 1 more town killed via Day Vig and a bad lynch its potentially game over when we go into D2 and townies will need to quickly detonate and get one wolf to save the game. I believe if we approach such a situation we should plan for it and have players online the second day starts.
On POD's shot:
I very much dislike that he killed without allowing the player to interact. If Luka had flipped scum we would have been robbed of any indicators to read into and solve the game. Cape saying its not AI to Day Vig a town and flatly voice intent to Day Vig a second player the moment their cooldown is up is not great. I would expect some form of take one way or the other on such an issue and my mind instantly jumps to the potential of a POD/Cape aligned team that chose to stack behind etch other. POD could kill but not be killed and in such a world wolves need 3 townies dead D1 to win on D2.
-But- Its an extremely balls out play that exposes the entire team and sets POD up as the obvious lynch if he kills 2 townies so they would literally be depending on swinging the lynch somewhere else so I find it unlikely such a coordinated plan that is so reckless would be used by a team. For that reason I feel like POD and Cape are either not aligned or if they are this was not a coordinated plan. At minimum it places Frinckles in a self preservation situation where against POD where he either lobbies Cape to kill POD or pushes the town to vote POD off prior to the ending cooldown. None of these are good things for a wolf POD.
So TLDR-
Cape/POD less likely to be aligned or this action was almost certainly not a planned team strategy. Its too reckless imo
Him intending to kill a second time is mechanically good for wolves that are stacked in the lobby order.
@powerofdeath
Why did you kill instantly instead of waiting to get some stuff out of Luka to read him post flip?
@Cape90
Unless the situation changes the way I see it you have a trolley problem. The train is going to run over Frinckles when POD's cooldown expires. Will you let it happen or pull a lever diverting the train to run over POD instead? Either way someone dies but you get to decide which of the two unless scumbot stops you.
I am curious. What town motivation do you see for jumping into a game and blindly killing in a 5T/2W pool? You are referring to it as a 'bad play' for town.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape90
Well if no one talks then this game is gonna be even harder
... excuse me? They lived a grand total of ZERO MINUTES.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerofdeath
Last time this happened in a similar setup, it was done by mafia (cf. Ceko dayshooting Lumi at start of D1, although it was pretty much trolling). I defended Ceko, thinking scum probably wouldn't do that. I was wrong. Defend yourself-vote powerofdeath
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape90
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerofdeath
Afaik you weren't like this at all in your previous games as town, and you also aren't a troll, so what exactly is your point? Why should we not just kill you, since you're basically openwolfing atm? It's almost too easy to be real - but it has happened in the past, so I'm more inclined to actually get rid of you lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerofdeath
The fact Cape didn't just insta blow up POD indicates that either Cape is town or he's scum with PoD and decided to sit behind him (which would be ridiculous if the plan is to blow someone up in the first minute of the game lol). A scum!Cape vs town!PoD instantly detonates with pretty much no consequences here and has his cooldown start refreshing immediatly, which is the scum play there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape90
Attachment 29185Quote:
Originally Posted by Helz
I think it's more like he has to figure out whether or not PoD is scum, much like all of us. Let's not forget lynch exists: we could actually just lynch POD, too, and POD could... decide not to blow Frinckles up when he hasn't said anything yet, so this looks very much like a false dichotomy.
It's not entirely NAI (it means Not Alignment Indicative, mizery), though. It depends on what he does next... and what he did next isn't particularly great, hence I'm voting there. I don't think blowing him up immediatly is a good idea, considering we want as much time as possible without people dying left and right, but I do think he is scummy for not even following up with anything. Like, he generated reactions - he could have said it was what he wanted, but he didn't say anything about those reactions, meaning it wasn't his goal (else he'd have exploited the info he generated). And while I like you not insta-blowing him up, I'd still like you to address that point, since you could still be scum with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape90
Aaaaaand nobody's here
:BOOHOO:
I’ve been planning to do it instantly for over a monthQuote:
Originally Posted by Helz
Also I originally thought both detonater and target die together
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerofdeath
That doesn't actually explain anything, though... like, why do you do any of this as town?Quote:
Originally Posted by powerofdeath
The problem is, there's also the question "why do you do any of this as scum?", but your lack of follow-up on the reactions makes me think you're just happy with the chaos you caused without trying to gain any information. If you're town, though, you absolutely should be addressing reactions and drawing conclusions right now.
low key think cape and POD are scum here.
I know what it meansQuote:
Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall
I thought he said it was AI because I can't read
You didn't seem very surprised when you lived thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by powerofdeath
The problem is without the detonation there would be nothing to talk about if POD didn't detonate (well, like any normal mafia game, except with no one in thread) but since he did detonate it will be easy for wolves to hide behind accusing him for not playing optimally if town.
I don't know if I really agree with this. A scum POD has plenty of scum motivation to come in and rando detonate then play the WIFOM card. I think Cape is a bit scummy for not instantly wanting POD dead..to me that would make sense as partners. I also think Cape is lying about how familiar he is with the player list. Maybe you say "well that's not a big lie." and maybe not but he's still lying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helz
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerofdeath
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Originally Posted by powerofdeath
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Originally Posted by powerofdeath
This isn't the reaction of someone who isn't familiar with how the detonate mechanic would workQuote:
Originally Posted by powerofdeath
Someone argue with me about something. I need 7 more posts but I don't really have any other game-related posting to do. I just think its a POD/Cape team and I don't really see myself budging from that position.
That was kind of a different situation though where you could 1) Shoot whoever you wanted to not just who was infront of you in the list, and 2) Ceko shooting lumi wasn't a "lol I'm going to detonate right away" but theoretically more targeted to "I'm gonna kill lumi right away" and was NAI imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall
Not only that but you only had one shot in that game and here you can shoot twice in a day if you shoot before the 24 hr mark. I would honestly say that that makes shooting immediately more wolfy since if you are a villager and want to maximize your shots then you can shoot before the 24 hr mark and still have time to make another shot if you're not shot yourself.
But I'm not going to theorize any more on that until POD responds because imo there's like 2 acceptable answers he could say
If you don't see yourself budging then why not detonate?Quote:
Originally Posted by scumbot5679
and how did you go from "low key think" to "i don't see myself budging"
also @Cape90 knows me too
Don't know why he'd claim to only know his mafia partner if they were wolves together, but that's just my mind.
If i was a wolf there in his position I might claim to not know anyone if not really traceable and defend POD off of that and generalities rather than align myself more and give the option that the only reason i know POD more is because i just had 48 hours to get to know them.
mostly b/c I forgot and I guess I was thinking that we just go in order and lynch POD and then Cape is d2 but I'm good with blowing up Cape if the rest of you are ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinGG99
you don't seem to believe your read all that muchQuote:
Originally Posted by scumbot5679
I saw POD detonate for no reason and then Capes wishy washy defensy type post so I wanted to come in and quickly call it before reading the rest of the tread and nothing changed my mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizery
Scumbot asks someone to engage with them and i try only for them to leave
Quote:
Originally Posted by scumbot5679
What is your exact level of confidence on Cape/PoD being scum here? I'm not saying it's unlikely, but you're basically saying "I'm not going to budge from my position. I can instantly blow one of them up. /shrug.", which is pretty contradictory. It's like you want to appear certain while not actually being certain - care to explain? Like, "I don't see myself budging" =/= "ill just blow cape up if everyone's ok with it, hadn't even noticed i could do that! shrugs and leaves"; this makes little sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by scumbot5679
*hard lurk mode engaged*
I suspect he had to leave, but it's indeed annoying from a purely selfish perspective -_-Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizery
NEVERMIND MY LAST POST XD
@scumbot5679 , I guess it's time for me to remind you that I have the remote of your bomb, which makes addressing me PRETTY IMPORTANT. Without wanting to threaten you. *puts a finger on the detonator*
I'm more confident in POD. I see little to no town motivation in randomly blowing up a guy that hasn't even posted. I am fine with putting the game on my back and blowing up Cape but I'm under the impression you guys want a dead POD (and who doesn't)
DON'T BLOW ME UP, BRO!
shit still not at 10.
What is the deal with all that pineapple on the pizza?
well frink's gonna die in 3 hours so im not rly sure what to do at this point
I could always just kill cape. On the one hand, it's a decent strat to get rid of a lurker but part of me thinks that Frinkles might just be town since POD is blatantly scum.
Hey scumbot did you know that if you kill cape before 5 then you can still also kill POD before EOD? fun facts
But also POD isn't blatantly scum he's just blatantly wolfsiding
no I didn't. sounds like fun!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizery
/detonate
I don't know what to do with my life anymore
Do you have any hobbies?
That was a game related post
But also no i don't
cape90 has a severe case of the deads
they were hapless citizen
so we're at 4/2 right now so like we've lost unless we just detonate and kill people so like
idk man theres nothing to do no one to talk to nothing to say
/detonate
lmfao
i can't kill anyone else
welp
I mean we've lost regardless imo if both wolves haven't or if both have
Marshmallow Marshall was blown info a puff of molten marshmallow
they were Mafia Goon but Explosive
Yooo gg
it was all skill i singlehandedly saved the game
this comment and then just not actually seeming to be interested in engaging more could mean w/w but then that would mean that they decided to stack in the list which imo makes little sense because you theoretically have to play longer, but also means that one of your team is guaranteed to not be shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by scumbot5679
I don't know if they are able to choose which order they stack in tho or just in general if they're stacked.
I do think POD is likely more town, but really that doesn't narrow anything down much.
oop is it helz am i about to die
i was town
Given the situation that was absolutely the right play. I would have done the same if I was around and it paid off.
We are now 4v1. I would encourage the rest of the town to stop blowing people up and lets take advantage of this situation.
Fuck no. You are conf town. As long as people stop blowing others up and actually start playing the game we are in a great position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizery
IMO an ideal order would be for
@Frinckles to come alive and shoot helz within the hour, and then for frink and pod to die after that when they can
then it just leaves me and Scumbot and then if neccesary i will still be able to shoot them on the day and they can't do anything about it.
powerofdeath (2 [L-2]):
Mizery, Marshmallow Marshall
@MartinGG99
IMO this is mech, but relies on frink coming alive which i don't think we can count onQuote:
Originally Posted by Mizery
the problem is with Frink gone there's no way to clear him and no way to kill helz if helz is mafia
I do think scumbot is slight town rn but again nothing i would bet the game on since MM's reaction and his response to "pressure" from MM didn't feel great.
I don't think that POD is a wolf however simply because MM voted him. It's not the most sound argument but in this game where all you really need to win as a wolf is two misfires from town or one misfire and a vote (with detonating near EOD) it doesn't seem that hard.
The question really only is stacking and if wolves would do it atp imo
Well for one I think the worst thing we can do is detonate another player today. We need conversation and reads given our numbers advantage. The last mafia has no team power to curve lynches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizery
For another the second its 1 town and 1 mafia the game ends.
Also if it was 1v1 and not game over he could shoot you the same as you could shoot him
Then there is the question of why you see me as the top scum over a player who has not played or the other two who have both killed townies. Given MM pushed POD and and Scumbot both killed a townie as well as is stacked behind MM he is my obvious first.
He couldn't since you can only shoot infront of you and only max twice a day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helz
He's used one on cape before the 24 hour mark so he can shoot again once tomorrow at 2pm pst
POD has used one and can shoot again in an hour but not again after that
Frink hasn't used any and can shoot twice only if he comes alive before 5 and POD doesn't shoot him at 5(Pst)
Which is why it's mech if frink shoots before POD shoots him, and you don't shoot me.
Frink shoots you, POD shoots frink, Scum shoots POD (now out of shots this day) and then i can shoot POD if we have not won by then at an hour before eod and he can't do anything about it.
For a bit more on this, POD is hard to read for me because he is playing like he does not give a fuck. He is not reading people or trying and walked into the game intending to kill at random, then stated he fully intends to continue to kill at random. I consider his play so far to be equally questionable as far as results as either a wolf or a town player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizery
On MM voting him its early in the day with a lot of time for resolution. I specifically noted MM was not lobbying for Cape to shoot him which slows my confidence that it was WvT. If MM was hardcore gunning for him it would make me more comfortable but the fact MM had voted him from L3-L2 is a good look.
And again I don't see you as top scum i see that as a mech win regardless if people trust that i didn't just kill my wolf buddy
wouldn't that imply he was a wolf though since MM was not lobbying for cape to shoot him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Helz
Actually honestly don't know why that's a bullet point for you to say at all since cape was defending POD so maybe i'm misreading that
In fairness, I didn't think MM was serious about his "pressure" but I didn't think you were either.
Orrrrrr. And just hear me out here...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizery
We could actually play Mafia. Do stuff like talk and make reads instead of blindly depending on shooting with a 20% hit chance while we have a 4v1 advantage. We would literally have 36 hours of discussion + 2 lynches and the option of your Vig shot if we decide to actually play.
If nobody cares and were just going to day vig let me know and I will just stop trying. I honestly would not have signed up for that type of game. Its not even Mafia.
I also think it's strange you said you'd shoot as well since you'd be shooting me if i didn't shoot MM when i've been trying to keep this game alive and would have no problem not trying to do that as a wolf, but that's a minor point imo.