S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

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Originally Posted by ikarusdk

I can take abrasive. I can dismiss downright abusive behaviour (but you wouldn't see that here) but things that frustrate me the most is when someone asks you a series of questions and you take your time to answer them, they keep asking the same question several times and tells you that you gotta do more because 1) they did not read the posts 2) they are so set in their mind that nothing you say will change them, it's like they are asking questions not to seek new information, but simply to ignore them

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I honestly don’t think that’s what I’ve been doing and I’ve really tried extremely hard to explain what I view as logical contradictions in some of the things you’ve said.

Like sr Martin based on Ren’s reads yet not having that influence your own. I know what your explanation was but it did and still doesn’t make sense to me.

And primarily, when you quoted that “alignment cop” post as a reason to argue as evidence of a frame up, when to me, it doesn’t make logical sense to me that he was doing any such thing in that post.

The issue with the first wasn’t your read on me per say but that you gave it as a reason for Martin hypothetically killing Ren but my point was, that being aware of his reads in such a way ought to have influenced your read on me as well. Granted, this example is much weaker than the other onr but I still didn’t think your take on it made a helluva lot of sense to me.

As for the other, as I already explained, it points to Martin being extremely aware of how powerful your role is and a threat to scum.

I get that your interpretation is that he thinks you should die but he made that post prior to Stellaria being shot by Zenon, so it doesn’t seem like a fair take based on that.

I am - I believe (iirc) the first and only one to even point that out and I did it only today. I was thinking it near EoD yesterday but I thought if I said anything at all about it, you might have tried to push for my getting voted out or not jk me and I didn’t want to risk you not jking me because I strongly believed I needed to be living IC to be taken seriously in this game.

It didn’t occur to me until then because you had been so extremely active up until yesterday but I didn’t feel you really even believed in your Zenon vote and struck me as suddenly being far less engaged than you had previously been.

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

Spoiler tags are a bit silly on this website because you have the specify the title of the spoiler.


[spoiler= llike this]
[/spoiler]

or

[spoiler= ]
[/spoiler]

The space is important.


I was able to to show it because the oh-so-wonderful [ noparse] and [ /noparse] commands.

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Spoiler : :

test

Ah cool, thanks!

I wont be back until End of Day, skip is no longer possible, so see you all in 2.5 hours

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Originally Posted by ikarusdk

If you can widen your perspective and not ignore 95% of my posts, I'm willing to engage.

You are entitled to form your own opinion and I welcome to hear them and I'm here to help but I'm not spending what limited time I have just to be told no after I actively tried to engage with you.

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I have not been ignoring you but I don’t find your arguments persuasive but I do appreciate you nit giving up and throwing in the towel.

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Originally Posted by Zenon

I'm very worried is just actually ikarus. They've set up reasons for why they won't die and played in towny enough way that it always goes me into you or visa versa

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I stand corrected. I may have thought this before Zenon made this post but she is the first one to actually say it out loud.

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

Oh and if it isn't clear

I do appreciate basically everyone in this game.

Except Clemens. If that was an oliwaz alt then they were never intending to care about the game in the first place.

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Zenon probably would have fared better had she had that slot from the beginning.

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Originally Posted by ikarusdk

But having said that, I understand your point. I jailed Nancy because I believed it was the right choice and also to keep my promise, but I could've thought more into it.

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It likely would have backfired on you. I have a very low miselim rate. I would have adamantly defended the Ren argument and you changing your mind had 0 bearing on my very clearly sincere attempt to wish to be jked.


However, this post from you is extremely interesting. The fact that you’re seriously reconsidering your decision makes me think that I’m right and it is you.

Because you obviously know I couldn’t have killed Varcron and it’s actually more probably a perspective slip what you didn’t say, than what you did.

What you ought to have said if it isn’t you is, I wish I had jailed Martin than we would be in mylo right now because of no kill but you leaving that part out, I think is telling.

Had you stood by your decision because obviously I’m town, I might possibly be hqving doubts right now. Do you see how this looks?

Nothing about my “wrong”=take on your alignment, nothing about you jking Martin making this mylo instead of lylo.

Why would town!you have rethought this and neglected to mention the clear implications pf that decision? You are claiming Martin is scum afterall but that thought clearly didn’t occur to you when you made this post.

It reads like “oh shit, maybe I made the wriong choice as scum jk”.

It can only be the wrong choice either because it’s mylo not lylo or I’m scum which you know isn’t possible and considering that you know I’m clear, I don’t understand fypov, how jking me could possibly be the wrong choice if you’re town, because sorry NOT mylo because Varcron is still clear obviously but if it was Martih, he would then be confiscum here.

I don’t think you’re reaction to this is a townie reaction. n

Town!you would say, I wish I had jk’d Martin because then game would be over, for obvious reasons. Hypothetical town!you jks scum!Martin. Varcron doesn’t die, game is sokved. That’s exactly how I’d expect a toxn jk to have responded to this post.

I actually feel really confident on my vote now. Enough to vote yes eventhough PoD won’t be here until EoD.

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Originally Posted by ikarusdk

But having said that, I understand your point. I jailed Nancy because I believed it was the right choice and also to keep my promise, but I could've thought more into it.

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You’re initial response makes sense as town. It is logical to jail the slot you tr less. But your response sounds like you know we’re both town.

Why would hypothetical town!you knowing what you know now, say this but nothing about you wish you had because game would then be solved?

This response clearly shows you know Martin isn’t scum either.

I was initially upset that Martin made that post but now I’m actually glad because I still had lingering doubts but I think that response sealed it for me.

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At this point, I don't care if I die. But it's got to be Ikarus. I'm just gonna call Ikarus and myself the PoE at this point because I don't think it can be deb.

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Stellaria also slipped with this.

I don’t know how we all missed this until now. Stellaria fucking blatantly scumslipped with this. How did I not realize this until right now?

Well obviously Martin didn’t but sometimes I’m ridiculously slow and it takes awhile for the blatantly obvious to sink in.

Anyway Ikarus, I think you played a phenomenal game, so you should feel proud.

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Originally Posted by powerofdeath

If all three people agree on ending the day early, reply to this post with green YES.
Otherwise day 7 will last 48 as usual.

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​YES

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Originally Posted by Nancy Drew 39

Well obviously Martin didn’t but sometimes I’m ridiculously slow and it takes awhile for the blatantly obvious to sink in.

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I did saw but didn't think it was a scumslip, looks more like a thing you can call a scumslip with confirmation bias

Some people use PoE more loosely or tightly than others.

Ikarusdk was voted out, please stand by.

The Jester have won!

Congratulations to Auwt for winning S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner!



























The Town have won!

Congratulations to Loldebite, Varcron, ItalianoVD, Nancy Drew 39, MartinGG99, yoshida, Renegade, and Zenon for winning S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner!



























Player List:

1. Stellaria - Vanilla Mafia - Shot by Zenon Day 5
2. Gikkle - Chaotic Executioner - Voted out Day 3
3. Loldebite - Town Caroler - Killed Night 4
4. Varcron - Vanilla Town - Killed Night 6
5. ItalianoVD - Vanilla Town - Killed Night 2
6. Nancy Drew 39 - Vanilla Town - Survived
7. Frinckles - Mafia Bomb - Voted out Day 4
8. Auwt - Illusionist(Chosen) and Tailor(Gifted) Jester - Voted out Day 2.
9. MartinGG99 - Vanilla Town - Survived
10. yoshida - Town Gunsmith - Voted out Day 5
11. ikarusdk - Mafia Jailor - Voted out Day 7
12. Renegade - Vanilla Town - Killed Night 5
13. Zenon - Vanilla Town - Voted out Day 6


Thoughts: This was an interesting game to watch. I felt like the setup was actually a bit mafia sided after watching this unfold. The turning point of this game was when Frinckles decided to pull off a huge gambit by claiming caroler, only for it to get Gikkle voted out which was quite unfortunate for mafia. Jester dying Day 2 also did not help the scum because Jester had 2 powerful roles that could've really confuse the heck out of the Town. I really enjoyed watching everyone play hard as best as they could. I know it was a bit sucky for 2 slots that I had to replace.

Clemensthelemon was a friend of mine that played a bit of forum mafia in the past but for some reasons the sc2mafia website was running very poorly for her kindle device so she couldn't really read or post. So she requested to be subbed out and I respect that. Jeremiah subbed in, and this was his very first Forum Mafia. He came from the arcade and this game was very overwhelming for him and he felt completely lost so he decided to request to sub out. BusterCannon said he would be gone for a day due to family issues but beg me to not replace him. I told him just find 1 minute of his time to make a post every 24 hours. He didnt show up until like 8 days later. Hopefully he was able to resolve his family issues. Huge thank you to those who subbed in though!

Please vote who you think deserve to be MVP this game!

MVP vote goes to

-vote Nancy Drew 39

@Nancy Drew 39 thank you for all the effort you put in carrying town over the finish line. I had a lot of fun playing with you and felt we were on the same page most of the game.

And for the record, you were NEVER abrasive.

@ikarusdk I have to say that was an extremely strong play, and you got extremely close to winning a virtually impossible game being down 2 mafia against 6 town.

You picked the right kill in me that is for sure. Because there is no world where I wasn't going to push you and Martin after Varcron got cleared. I had all the scenarios typed out and there no way would I believe Nancy or Zenon was scum.

To @MartinGG99 and @Varcron , I feel like I don't understand how you could believe Zenon could ever be scum after shooting their teammate at 7v2 with a jailor still in play. Nobody gave an explanation. Ikarus said they scum read Zenon but nobody ever pushed or gave an explanation as to why Zenon would SHOOT THEIR TEAMMATE.

@MartinGG99 there were several times at F5 it felt like you were just throwing in the towel and going to give ikarus a win. In fact, I'm sure had you been jailed and not Nancy, Ikarus would have won. Extremely frustrating to watch.

Thankfully, once Nancy was mechanically cleared, the more analytical Martin I am familiar with showed up. But had you been jailed you would have been voting Nancy for... reasons.

@Stellaria you were put in an extremely tough position appearing in two carols, even if one came from the Chaos Exe. GG

@Frinckles I don't find your thunderdomes fun at all as a player. Do with that what you will.

@yoshida GG dude, sorry you had to be voted out but at that point in time there was too much circumstantial evidence against you. I should have paid closer attention to how Frinckles wanted you out EOD2 rather than thinking that was a bussing tactic.

@Loldebite I was sorry when you died because I felt that with you, nancy, and me we had a strong towncore.

@Auwt gg, didn't expect that Jester.

@Gikkle despite being voted out, you really set the whole game in motion. Interesting choices too.

@ItalianoVD I was surprised you were killed so early, wish you had stayed alive longer.

@powerofdeath thank you very much for hosting, you did a great job and I really enjoyed the setup.

Thank you to the players who subbed in, especially @Varcron and @Zenon . It was a pleasure to have you both. @Zenon with the pro day shot on scum and still gets voted out, utter insanity.
Regarding the subbing in, I have made recommendations to the forum staff of the following:

From now on, any new player with no FM experience, especially those that come from the SC2 Arcade map, should either:

Be forced to play with a mentor who can sub in at any time or
Go through a "New Player Game" like the one that occurred around 2 years ago, similarly where a mentor is assigned.

This will encourage both retention and allow for a failsafe in the case these new players feel overwhelmed or drop out for whatever reason.

A game is ongoing so I will not elaborate further but a cursory read will give you examples why this is needed.

Gege!

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Originally Posted by powerofdeath

Clemensthelemon was a friend of mine that played a bit of forum mafia in the past but for some reasons the sc2mafia website was running very poorly for her kindle device so she couldn't really read or post. So she requested to be subbed out and I respect that.

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My apologies to Clemens for suspecting them to be oliwaz. Unfortunate it did not operate well on the kindle.

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Originally Posted by Renegade

To @MartinGG99 and @Varcron , I feel like I don't understand how you could believe Zenon could ever be scum after shooting their teammate at 7v2 with a jailor still in play. Nobody gave an explanation. Ikarus said they scum read Zenon but nobody ever pushed or gave an explanation as to why Zenon would SHOOT THEIR TEAMMATE.

@MartinGG99 there were several times at F5 it felt like you were just throwing in the towel and going to give ikarus a win. In fact, I'm sure had you been jailed and not Nancy, Ikarus would have won. Extremely frustrating to watch.

Thankfully, once Nancy was mechanically cleared, the more analytical Martin I am familiar with showed up. But had you been jailed you would have been voting Nancy for... reasons.

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Well, like I said, I was trying to take this game more casually, and had believed the game would be solved at Yoshida/Stellaria/Frinckles. Consideration of other worlds, beyond low-level WIFOM, was just asking me to put a lot of thought into the game and I wasn't going to do that. My idea after Yoshida being dead was that maybe Zenon, due to being a sub, would be more willing to go all-out in the hopes it triggers a win. As for Nancy, it was more a belief that it probably was not Ikarusdk. I've also mentioned before that I have bad taste for turning on my reads at the last moment.

I had a lot of fun in this game, and part of that was due to not trying my fullest all the time. Last game (in another community) I had before this, also as town, I ended up trying a lot and yet ended up hard mafia-siding day 1 and day 2 and I ended up getting vigged for it with some level of disagreement over whether the vig on me was truly necessary. It was a terrible experience and over-thinking the game there led me to over-thinking (and being critical of) myself and stuff like that. The interactions with certain others were also not great.

We could focus on how perhaps I could have won the game for town sooner, had I thought or played differently, but I've grown to learn dwelling on that isn't good for me. At least, it sometimes isn't. So while I appreciate your feedback here, respectfully, I'm going to have to ignore it to some extent. We also won anyways in the end.

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Originally Posted by MartinGG99

Well, like I said, I was trying to take this game more casually, and had believed the game would be solved at Yoshida/Stellaria/Frinckles. Consideration of other worlds, beyond low-level WIFOM, was just asking me to put a lot of thought into the game and I wasn't going to do that. My idea after Yoshida being dead was that maybe Zenon, due to being a sub, would be more willing to go all-out in the hopes it triggers a win. As for Nancy, it was more a belief that it probably was not Ikarusdk. I've also mentioned before that I have bad taste for turning on my reads at the last moment.

I had a lot of fun in this game, and part of that was due to not trying my fullest all the time. Last game (in another community) I had before this, also as town, I ended up trying a lot and yet ended up hard mafia-siding day 1 and day 2 and I ended up getting vigged for it with some level of disagreement over whether the vig on me was truly necessary. It was a terrible experience and over-thinking the game there led me to over-thinking (and being critical of) myself and stuff like that. The interactions with certain others were also not great.

We could focus on how perhaps I could have won the game for town sooner, had I thought or played differently, but I've grown to learn dwelling on that isn't good for me. At least, it sometimes isn't. So while I appreciate your feedback here, respectfully, I'm going to have to ignore it to some extent. We also won anyways in the end.

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We only won because you weren't jailed.

No rational explanation for why Zenon would shoot a scum teammate in 7v2 and giving a possible ikarus scum jailor every reason to jail you, basically telegraphing days in advance how you would give him the win.

@powerofdeath , you forgot to mention @Zenon .

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Originally Posted by Renegade

We only won because you weren't jailed.

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Likely so.

You seem to like Analytical Martin and massively prefer it over how I've been this game. As of the moment I'm not sure how much I want to lean into the mindset of Analytical Martin as every-so-often that mindset digs really deep into me and causes real psychological issues despite it just being a game. If you have trouble believing that or thinking its not as serious as I am taking it right now, that's exactly how I perceived it too (believing it can't or won't be a problem) for the past few years until time and time again I seem to have terrible experience on occasion because of it.

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Originally Posted by Renegade

No rational explanation for why Zenon would shoot a scum teammate in 7v2 and giving a possible ikarus scum jailor every reason to jail you, basically telegraphing days in advance how you would give him the win.

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If Zenon is shooting a scum teammate then Ikarus is no longer a possible scum jailor. So I don't get what you're saying here.

My vote for MVP goes to

-vote Loldebite

I specced the whole game and I saw some very good play coming from all sides. It is true, I was completely blindsided by Gikkle being the Chaotic Executioner. I guess if this setup happens again, I'd advise Chaos Exe to fake the carol entirely if they get it.

Shoutout to Yoshida for playing with us even though they haven't played in years.

I played scum so I couldn't really "prove myself" so to speak but hopefully this game I upped my standard of play since the last FM game. And if Nemo is reading this, then I am making steps and considerations, and I have come up with a name.

Also also, any frustrations I claimed to be having were entirely falsified. I wasn't upset at anybody or angry or nothin', just trying to play to my wincon :P

\0/
We won!
@Renegade : <3 <3 <3

I think we were massively helped out by mech and town made most of the correct flips. As I said, you, Lol, Zenon and Gikkle. all GOATs!

I really loved playing with you. I just couldn’t see how town jailor - AC doesn’t die over you and I just didn’t believe Ikarus’ reasoning for his Zenon vote.

He seemed different after Yoshida flip like he was well aware you dying over him looked really suss. I wanted to save Zenon but I didn’t think it was Martin and everyone but me was opposed to skip. I couldn’t push Ikarus because Martin and especially Varcron seemed to be pocketed and I didn’t want to give Ikarus any reason not to jailkeep me and had I said anything about my suspicions, he probably wouldn’t have.

I’d really like to think I could have convinced Martin and got him to listen to me but that’s for him to respond.

I wish Italiano would have lived longer since he signed up because of me.

I just think Martin was really obvious town on that last day and after Ikarus’ shift in play on d6, I no longer tr him. ,

It was extremely emotionally exhausting in lylo and I’m just really glad I was IC.

Love the playerlist and Lol really helped by pushing for Frinckles > Stellaria and especially Yoshida. Flipping Auwt on d2 and Gikkle d3 also definitely helped.

So I think it’s a combined Lol, you, Zen and me + Gikkle that ultimately won this game for us.

I’m just really glad it’s over. Rn, I just need to destress. :S

Thanks to PowerofDeath for running this and finding me on both MU and discord and to everyone on the playerlist. Loved the setup.

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Originally Posted by Nancy Drew 39

@powerofdeath , you forgot to mention @Zenon .

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Ah I mentioned yoshida twice.

but yeah Martin and Nancy I sent you both invites on discord that have spec chat, dead chat, mafia chat, and everything if you feel like going through those. Just @me when you do join.

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Originally Posted by powerofdeath

Ah I mentioned yoshida twice.

but yeah Martin and Nancy I sent you both invites on discord that have spec chat, dead chat, mafia chat, and everything if you feel like going through those. Just @me when you do join.

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Will do. Planning to pop in tomorrow or the day after, where I'll feel better able to face any potential criticisms of me.

Thanks a lot for hosting!

Gg everyone! I enjoyed playing with you all.

Thank you for hosting @powerofdeath

-vote Nancy Drew 39

There are definitely a couple other people I thought played very well (renegade and ikarus being the names at the top of my head but others played well too), but I was most impressed by Nancy's play this game. Loved seeing how Nancy reasoned their way through things, from how they reactes to my big argument with Frinckles to how they played LYLO with Ikarus and Martin. Very well done, and a good job to ikarus as well. An impressive scum game from you, and an impressive town game from nancy.


Also, sorry mafia :p
I pretty much immediately regretted outing the roles like I did because tbh while I was frustrated at the time, I did really respect the play @Frinckles , even though it made me want to bash my head into a wall lol.

Well played everyone :)

GGs to y'all, it was quite a funky game.

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Originally Posted by Gikkle

I pretty much immediately regretted outing the roles like I did because tbh while I was frustrated at the time, I did really respect the play @Frinckles , even though it made me want to bash my head into a wall lol.

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Probably a good thing that you didn't see my post where I ask you to, then lol

-vote loldebite

MVP well deserved

You actually played it better than many cops I have seen back in the day. They would usually crumble under mafia's dirt but you stood your ground well against Frinckles and forced them to NK you after outing two of them, which is the dream PR game.


Special credit to Martin for actually making the best out of his limited activity. He was instrumental to confirming Jailer, revealing CE for town, guided town on D3 to enable another day gun & follow loldebite against Frinckles. Solid case against ikarus on F3.



I also want to give a special mention to mafia team, Frinckles/Stellaria did amazing job distancing themselves from ikarus which allowed him to go UTR for a long time. I also loved reading everything all over again after reading the mafia chat. You guys indeed deserve an Oscar for the first two days :love:


I think mafia got unlucky with how aggressive I was on D3 after Gikkle decided to pull a gambit. I also think mafia had better chances if they had waited one more day to CC. But I understand Frinckles also had limited availability and if it hadn't been that, we could have been in a different game.




Zenon, Varcron did great with their limited time and many thanks for subbing in. We had 2 slots that contributed nothing to the game which made things a bit weird.


Renegade, I still chuckle at how Frinckles described your town game being the most doctor ever. I loved that and yes, it was great playing with you. You are a strong player and I don't think the criticism you get for not posting enough is justified. I respect your style a lot. It is solid and there are a lot to learn from your town games.

Italiano, I hope I get another chance to play with you at some point. I would love to see more of you.


GG to Gikkle and Auwt. I respect their choices and they played well. Things got lucky for one and unlucky for the other in the end but thats FM. I really enjoyed your last day Gikkle even though you did a dirty one on me by revealing the roles, it is only fair after what I have done. I hope there are no bad feelings.



@powerofdeath it was a smooth game and you done a great job setting up everything perfectly. I also appreciate you took the time to get back on sc2maf and provided a great game for all of us newcomers :)

oh and as for setup balance, have you ever considered replacing jester with another 3p, maybe a modified jester or something like arsonist/poisoner. or you could add a town role like amnesiac that could also become a secondary jester. for example, amnesiac>insane jester mechanics from: INSANE ASYLUM https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...-Insane-Asylum I feel like that could balance this more in favor of every team. at the same time, I feel like town could use 1 locked PR from start and that PR can try to avoid getting a role? this could help town slightly more and make it more balanced. It would depend on how you want to approach the jester slot. It could be a forced marshall/mayor(jester game) or a doc(arsonist/poisoner). I think the CE mechanic is great and for the second edition you should certainly consider making the game for jester slot more complicated and slightly improve town power.

Well played all!

Congratulations to the townies! Sorry for missing y'all, by the way. I should be out of my hibernation now, and will catch you in the next game ^^