* * * SC2 Mafia Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46797 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Auteur : Ash Date : June 8th, 2020 10:19 PM Title : I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. If God wasn't real, why is science and the Big Bang contradicted by Antoine Lavoisier’s Law of Conservation of Mass (1789)? How did all the particles from the Big Bang come into play, if it is clear that all matter cannot be created or destroyed? Where did this matter come from? Remember, God is monitoring this thread. Good luck, atheists. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Auteur : Date : June 8th, 2020 11:03 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. Lol interesting question. I’m a deist but I still think the idea of god is problematic. I mean, you’re either asking me to believe that God existed before the Universe, which begs the question of - what was there before god, and how did he come into existence? If you don’t believe in God, them how did nothing turn into something? They’re honestly both extremely complicated questions and we most likely won’t be getting these answers for another billion years or so. I think that we’re either thinking about God the wrong way, or that our current understanding of God is correct but only scratching the first nanometers of the surface. I suspect that it is the latter; we’ve been thinking about God for a very long time, man. Maybe it was the first philosophical question ever asked. So it wouldn’t be unfair to argue that what we believe right now, or maybe the path we’re taking, at the very least, is correct. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Auteur : SuperJack Date : June 9th, 2020 02:14 AM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. Rule 1 of religion: If you can't explain it, blame/thank god. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Auteur : Date : June 9th, 2020 03:31 AM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. Tbh I think it’s a matter of belief. Sure, religious bigots who blame God and don’t believe in evolution exist, but that’s not everyone. I really feel like the existence of a supreme being has neither been proven nor disproven. So whether you choose to believe in God or not is mostly a matter of personal choice. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Auteur : oops_ur_dead Date : June 9th, 2020 04:12 AM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. all the particles came from ur mom's fat fucking ass -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Auteur : oops_ur_dead Date : June 9th, 2020 05:03 AM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. >Satan tells humans to eat the forbidden fruit, God gets mad because it gave them free will >Punishes humans for making the choice to eat the forbidden fruit that gave them free will >A decision that they made when they didn't have free will, so they couldn't have chosen to not eat the forbidden fruit >God programs humans to commit the original sin, despite being omniscient, and gets mad at them for doing so, then doesn't remove free will despite being omnipotent why do people still believe in these magic stories lmao -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Auteur : yzb25 Date : June 9th, 2020 05:35 AM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. tbf I had to read Paradise Lost Book IX for A-level (highschool) and I thought it was fucking sick. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Auteur : yzb25 Date : June 9th, 2020 05:38 AM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. After eating the fruit, they shag like crazy and suddenly feel shame in nudity. It's like what puberty should have been. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Auteur : theoneceko Date : June 9th, 2020 05:41 AM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. After eating the fruit, they shag like crazy and suddenly feel shame in nudity. It's like what puberty should have been. bonk -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Auteur : SuperJack Date : June 9th, 2020 05:46 AM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. https://youtu.be/IVbnciQYMiM -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Auteur : BananaCucho Date : June 9th, 2020 06:19 AM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. Yeah no. If god exists, it's not the god of christianity. That god claims to be all knowing, all powerful, and all good. If the god of christianity exists, it is NOT all good and does not deserve worship, adoration, nor respect. I spit on the very thought of it. If a god exists its some random being that gets a kick out of watching it's "children" (or science experiment) suffer. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : June 9th, 2020 12:45 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. As an agnostic: If God wasn't real, why is science and the Big Bang contradicted by Antoine Lavoisier’s Law of Conservation of Mass (1789)? How did all the particles from the Big Bang come into play, if it is clear that all matter cannot be created or destroyed? Where did this matter come from? Remember, God is monitoring this thread. Good luck, atheists. Antoine Lavoisier and the sciencists who made modern science are not God. They don't know reality, or at the very least not fully. It's not because you cannot explain something that it automatically involves divine beings. That is not really debatable. If you need an example, think of those times when you lose something (like your pencil) and never find it again. It's very probably not that a supreme being made your pencil disappear. The more likely hypothesis is that... you're too imperfect to find it, because you don't know everything. Now, I'm less certain of that part, but couldn't that matter/energy just have been sitting there for all eternity? oops_ur_dead imagine taking the Bible literally -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Auteur : Ash Date : June 9th, 2020 01:33 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. As an agnostic: Antoine Lavoisier and the sciencists who made modern science are not God. They don't know reality, or at the very least not fully. It's not because you cannot explain something that it automatically involves divine beings. That is not really debatable. If you need an example, think of those times when you lose something (like your pencil) and never find it again. It's very probably not that a supreme being made your pencil disappear. The more likely hypothesis is that... you're too imperfect to find it, because you don't know everything. Now, I'm less certain of that part, but couldn't that matter/energy just have been sitting there for all eternity? @oops_ur_dead (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php?u=2230) imagine taking the Bible literally Yes and no. Where did that pencil come from in the first place? A tree? Where did that tree come from, a seed? How was that seed made, how did all those particles come into existence in the first place? My point is that science will never be able to achieve an answer to all its questions. Even if we as a species survive for millions and millions of years, and discover how our Universe was made, there will always be the same question of "How?" So my question is, up to what point are you willing to accept that God is real? Scientifically speaking, it is impossible for the universe to exist from a complete void out of nothingness. Much like Newton's Laws of Motion, nothing will spontaneously happen just because it "can". Yes you can say that there is no "proof" of God, just like there is no proof of a fourth dimension. What if they are the same? What if God is just on a much higher dimension and we cannot comprehend because we're stuck in a three-dimensional world? If you make a game, let's say you make a 2d sandbox game just like Minecraft and you have intelligent AI in it that act on their own, does that make you a God? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Auteur : Date : June 9th, 2020 01:45 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. Tbh you guys should read either The Last Answer by Isaac Asimov. That’s how I imagine God. I honestly think that if I were a supreme being I would be waaay too fucking busy doing heavenly stuff to notice humanity. Then again maybe not. Also, if you start to look at the Judaeo-Christian God as a harsh father rather than a supreme being, you’ll start understanding the Old Testament a lot better. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Auteur : BananaCucho Date : June 9th, 2020 01:53 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. Yes and no. Where did that pencil come from in the first place? A tree? Where did that tree come from, a seed? How was that seed made, how did all those particles come into existence in the first place? My point is that science will never be able to achieve an answer to all its questions. Even if we as a species survive for millions and millions of years, and discover how our Universe was made, there will always be the same question of "How?" So my question is, up to what point are you willing to accept that God is real? Scientifically speaking, it is impossible for the universe to exist from a complete void out of nothingness. Much like Newton's Laws of Motion, nothing will spontaneously happen just because it "can". Yes you can say that there is no "proof" of God, just like there is no proof of a fourth dimension. What if they are the same? What if God is just on a much higher dimension and we cannot comprehend because we're stuck in a three-dimensional world? If you make a game, let's say you make a 2d sandbox game just like Minecraft and you have intelligent AI in it that act on their own, does that make you a God? Well, DUH. The whole point of science is to study the universe and try to understand why things happen and how things work. There's no point to be made here by stating that lol What we know from science though is achieved through the scientific method, and if you were to wipe out our species and force it to start all over, it would eventually come to understand that exact same things once again. Can you say the same about religion? Given that science has proved certain points about the bible wrong/incorrect in a literal sense, religion has had to make the choice to either move the goal posts to fit what science has helped us come to understand (biblical stories aren't literal) or to deny scientific discoveries (evolution doesn't exist). If humanity was wiped out and had to start over, would the lessons and doctrines in the bible be the same? With all of the many differing ideas and contradictions that are contained in it? (this goes for any religion btw) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Auteur : BananaCucho Date : June 9th, 2020 01:55 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. I honestly think that if I were a supreme being I would be waaay too fucking busy doing heavenly stuff to notice humanity. As an atheist, I can accept this idea of an uncaring supreme being. It makes sense. That being said, that type of being is not worth adoring or worshiping, so what does it matter? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : June 9th, 2020 02:11 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. Yes and no. Where did that pencil come from in the first place? A tree? Where did that tree come from, a seed? How was that seed made, how did all those particles come into existence in the first place? My point is that science will never be able to achieve an answer to all its questions. Even if we as a species survive for millions and millions of years, and discover how our Universe was made, there will always be the same question of "How?" So my question is, up to what point are you willing to accept that God is real? Scientifically speaking, it is impossible for the universe to exist from a complete void out of nothingness. Much like Newton's Laws of Motion, nothing will spontaneously happen just because it "can". Yes you can say that there is no "proof" of God, just like there is no proof of a fourth dimension. What if they are the same? What if God is just on a much higher dimension and we cannot comprehend because we're stuck in a three-dimensional world? If you make a game, let's say you make a 2d sandbox game just like Minecraft and you have intelligent AI in it that act on their own, does that make you a God? You are distorting my example -_- I'm only saying that if humanity can't figure something out now, it doesn't mean it never will be able to figure it out. Although I tend to agree with you, you cannot say for sure that humanity will never reach that knowledge. It's highly unlikely, but it is not necessarily impossible. Do we live in a simulation made so well that we can never know if we live in one or not? That question is inherently unanswerable. As for "no proof", exactly. It's faith, not science. That is why I believe there is something that created us, not necessarily something demanding worship but still something. The fact that I believe it, I do not know it. Those who pretend to know it are either misunderstood prophets, or more simply and much more likely, wrong. Tbh you guys should read either The Last Answer by Isaac Asimov. That’s how I imagine God. I honestly think that if I were a supreme being I would be waaay too fucking busy doing heavenly stuff to notice humanity. Then again maybe not. Also, if you start to look at the Judaeo-Christian God as a harsh father rather than a supreme being, you’ll start understanding the Old Testament a lot better. But His righteousness in being a harsh father lies in the assumed fact that he is the supreme being. If we're talking about the very existence of a supreme being, your circumstancial clarification is irrelevant. Am I mistaken? And lol the idea of God being "too busy" is a bit contradictory, but it probably makes a great and original story. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Auteur : Date : June 9th, 2020 02:39 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. He doesn’t have to be the supreme being to be a harsh father. I mean, neither does your real father, and he’s still pretty damn important. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 19] Auteur : Cancer Date : June 9th, 2020 02:49 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. As an atheist, I can accept this idea of an uncaring supreme being. It makes sense. That being said, that type of being is not worth adoring or worshiping, so what does it matter? Whassap. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 20] Auteur : BananaCucho Date : June 9th, 2020 02:50 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. Whassap. =) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 21] Auteur : Cancer Date : June 9th, 2020 02:51 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. =) =) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 22] Auteur : BananaCucho Date : June 9th, 2020 02:52 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. (= -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 23] Auteur : Toadette Date : June 9th, 2020 02:53 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. =) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 24] Auteur : Toad Date : June 9th, 2020 02:55 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. (= -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 25] Auteur : theoneceko Date : June 9th, 2020 02:58 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. Yes and no. Where did that pencil come from in the first place? A tree? Where did that tree come from, a seed? How was that seed made, how did all those particles come into existence in the first place? My point is that science will never be able to achieve an answer to all its questions. Even if we as a species survive for millions and millions of years, and discover how our Universe was made, there will always be the same question of "How?" So my question is, up to what point are you willing to accept that God is real? Scientifically speaking, it is impossible for the universe to exist from a complete void out of nothingness. Much like Newton's Laws of Motion, nothing will spontaneously happen just because it "can". Yes you can say that there is no "proof" of God, just like there is no proof of a fourth dimension. What if they are the same? What if God is just on a much higher dimension and we cannot comprehend because we're stuck in a three-dimensional world? If you make a game, let's say you make a 2d sandbox game just like Minecraft and you have intelligent AI in it that act on their own, does that make you a God? ushould read a winrkle in time by madleine lengle.uwu -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 26] Auteur : theoneceko Date : June 9th, 2020 03:00 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. =) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 27] Auteur : Sylvanas Date : June 9th, 2020 05:58 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. The Big Bang is a theory that offers an incomplete and provisional explanation for the origins of the universe. Science is about searching for knowledge and questioning the answers. "God did this" is what you say when you want to have an answer for everything but don't want to think. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 28] Auteur : SUPERDUCK Date : June 9th, 2020 06:47 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. =) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 29] Auteur : Kovath Date : June 9th, 2020 06:52 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. =) wtf is this throwback acc -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 30] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : June 10th, 2020 12:57 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. =) :wm: And yes Sylvanas is right, the Big Bang is a theory, it's very probably not perfect, but at least it's not "Ooo some guy clapped his fingers and the world was created EXACTLY THIS WAY, say I'm wrong and you're an heretic". -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 31] Auteur : oops_ur_dead Date : June 10th, 2020 01:16 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. The Big Bang is not a theory for how the universe was created, it's a model for the very early history of the universe after the planck epoch. There are no legitimate empirically supported theories for what happened "before" the Big Bang, all known theories point to there being a singularity containing all energy in the universe before it expanded. The Big Bang is strongly supported by evidence, but nobody truly knows where the universe itself came from. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 32] Auteur : BananaCucho Date : June 10th, 2020 01:42 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. The Big Bang is not a theory for how the universe was created, it's a model for the very early history of the universe after the planck epoch. There are no legitimate empirically supported theories for what happened "before" the Big Bang, all known theories point to there being a singularity containing all energy in the universe before it expanded. The Big Bang is strongly supported by evidence, but nobody truly knows where the universe itself came from. Yeah guys, a scientific theory isn't a hypothesis. C'mon now https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 33] Auteur : Date : June 10th, 2020 02:00 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. On the topic of religion (with or without God being the supreme being), at the risk of being a shill, I suggest you guys watch some of Jordan Peterson’s videos in religion. They are unbelievably interesting because he attempts to explain why man thought about the world the way he did, and how this is viable in the Old Testament and the Bible in general. Like for instance, for him( when Eve ate from the Tree in the Garden I’d Eden, Adam pretty much becomes the archetypal loser by blaming her for leading him astray; and Eve has an excuse because she was at least deceived by the serpent. I am not the best at explaining it. Suffice it to say you really should check him out. For him, God seems to br mostly the God of the Old Testament, but not precisely a supreme being: rather a very, very harsh (but also somewhat just) father; he made his own chosen people wander through the desert for 40 years, after all. He is more like a hungry lion plus a harsh father figure in one than a supreme being. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 34] Auteur : Renegade Date : June 10th, 2020 03:05 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. If God wasn't real, why is science and the Big Bang contradicted by Antoine Lavoisier’s Law of Conservation of Mass (1789)? How did all the particles from the Big Bang come into play, if it is clear that all matter cannot be created or destroyed? Where did this matter come from? Remember, God is monitoring this thread. Good luck, atheists. Lmfao this is a joke right? Just because science doesn't have an answer for the big bang doesn't mean God is real. Science doesn't presuppose to know everything. Arguing with "faith" is pointless since belief despite everything is the definition of "faith" itself. There is no God. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 35] Auteur : Renegade Date : June 10th, 2020 03:08 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. Even if Abrahamic god was real, why worship that self-absorbed asshole? You mean to tell me you created the universe and humans just to be worshipped? Get a life, God. 100% serious, if God revealed himself today and demanded worship, I would say fuck no to that. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 36] Auteur : Renegade Date : June 10th, 2020 03:12 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. Yeah no. If god exists, it's not the god of christianity. That god claims to be all knowing, all powerful, and all good. If the god of christianity exists, it is NOT all good and does not deserve worship, adoration, nor respect. I spit on the very thought of it. If a god exists its some random being that gets a kick out of watching it's "children" (or science experiment) suffer. Yes I didn't read this before my last post, but yes this x1000. God is a goofy loser. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 37] Auteur : yzb25 Date : June 10th, 2020 04:09 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. The bible, particularly the old testament, is quite fascinating when viewed as a small, unreliable window into the ancient mind rather than an authoritative text. In fact, the mere authorship of the old testament is itself a source of great intrigue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis From what I understand, there were loads of gods and religions floating around the Middle East 3000 years ago, before dominant empires formed and started to unify the world's faiths. Wouldn't it be amazing to know what they thought about the world? And to think that Judaism, one tiny religion amongst many, would go on to have such a profound effect on world history... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 38] Auteur : theoneceko Date : June 10th, 2020 04:16 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. The bible, particularly the old testament, is quite fascinating when viewed as a small, unreliable window into the ancient mind rather than an authoritative text. In fact, the mere authorship of the old testament is itself a source of great intrigue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis From what I understand, there were loads of gods and religions floating around the Middle East 3000 years ago, before dominant empires formed and started to unify the world's faiths. Wouldn't it be amazing to know what they thought about the world? And to think that Judaism, one tiny religion amongst many, would go on to have such a profound effect on world history... UwU -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 39] Auteur : yzb25 Date : June 10th, 2020 04:17 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. Do you ever wish you could see simulations of other human earths with the parameters changed slightly, to see what other possible cultures humanity created? The world we exist in is one where one tiny cult in Israel happened to have a dominant effect on the religious beliefs of most of the world. Maybe in another world, monotheism wouldn't enjoy such indisputed dominance. Or maybe the dominance of monotheism is inevitable. Maybe the dominant world's religions could have ended up having a totally different view of human sexuality, good and bad, the afterlife. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 40] Auteur : theoneceko Date : June 10th, 2020 05:00 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. Do you ever wish you could see simulations of other human earths with the parameters changed slightly, to see what other possible cultures humanity created? The world we exist in is one where one tiny cult in Israel happened to have a dominant effect on the religious beliefs of most of the world. Maybe in another world, monotheism wouldn't enjoy such indisputed dominance. Or maybe the dominance of monotheism is inevitable. Maybe the dominant world's religions could have ended up having a totally different view of human sexuality, good and bad, the afterlife. UwU thatactually sounds ocool owo. altho that'snot someting i considered b4. uvu -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 41] Auteur : Sylvanas Date : June 10th, 2020 06:38 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. Do you ever wish you could see simulations of other human earths with the parameters changed slightly, to see what other possible cultures humanity created? The world we exist in is one where one tiny cult in Israel happened to have a dominant effect on the religious beliefs of most of the world. Maybe in another world, monotheism wouldn't enjoy such indisputed dominance. Or maybe the dominance of monotheism is inevitable. Maybe the dominant world's religions could have ended up having a totally different view of human sexuality, good and bad, the afterlife. To hell with simulations, let's see what happens when we up the planet's thermostat a few degrees. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 42] Auteur : Date : June 10th, 2020 10:05 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. Tbh science hasn’t disproven God either. It’s an open question. It’s of course unlikely that God will be the God of the Bible if and when we discover him, though.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 43] Auteur : Renegade Date : June 11th, 2020 07:37 AM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. Tbh science hasn’t disproven God either. It’s an open question. It’s of course unlikely that God will be the God of the Bible if and when we discover him, though.... By definition, at least in Christianity, science CAN'T prove God exists, because if you knew he existed, then you wouldn't have "faith", and having "faith" is the bedrock of the goofiness. Strange stuff. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 44] Auteur : BananaCucho Date : June 11th, 2020 08:20 AM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. By definition, at least in Christianity, science CAN'T prove God exists, because if you knew he existed, then you wouldn't have "faith", and having "faith" is the bedrock of the goofiness. Strange stuff. The ultimate loophole. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 45] Auteur : Sylvanas Date : June 11th, 2020 04:06 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. Tbh science hasn’t disproven God either. It’s an open question. It’s of course unlikely that God will be the God of the Bible if and when we discover him, though.... You can't prove non-existence. You can't make a statement without any evidence to back it up and expect people to accept it as true unless they can disprove it. See: invisible pink unicorn, flying spaghetti monster. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 46] Auteur : Date : June 11th, 2020 10:56 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. You can't prove non-existence. You can't make a statement without any evidence to back it up and expect people to accept it as true unless they can disprove it. See: invisible pink unicorn, flying spaghetti monster. I’d say the existence of the universe is evidence enough. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 47] Auteur : Sylvanas Date : June 12th, 2020 02:15 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. I’d say the existence of the universe is evidence enough. Maybe from a theist's perspective. It's a form of confirmation bias. If you believe in a god, the unexplained serves as justification for whatever you believe in. Before people knew how they worked, things like lightning, plagues and natural catastrophes could perfectly be passed off as a god's actions, leading to a circular logic where those events justify god and god justifies those events. But they were just unanswered questions, much like the origins of the universe. I think the Universe looks more like a random mess than something a sentient all-powerful being would create, not to mention omnipotence itself is a paradox. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 48] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : June 12th, 2020 03:03 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. I’d say the existence of the universe is evidence enough. Maybe from a theist's perspective. It's a form of confirmation bias. If you believe in a god, the unexplained serves as justification for whatever you believe in. Before people knew how they worked, things like lightning, plagues and natural catastrophes could perfectly be passed off as a god's actions, leading to a circular logic where those events justify god and god justifies those events. But they were just unanswered questions, much like the origins of the universe. I completely agree with Sylvanas here. Although it's possible and somewhat likely IMO that a world creator exists, it's not proven, and you cannot say the existence of the universe proves the existence of a creator. As much as the creator could have been there for eternity, the universe, simply existing, could, too. Yes I didn't read this before my last post, but yes this x1000. God is a goofy loser. LOL -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 49] Auteur : Date : June 13th, 2020 05:50 AM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. My point was that it’s unfair to compare the existence of God with miracles. That comparison isn’t even close lol. No matter how you spin it the creation or whatever? The origins of the Universe don’t make any sense; you either have to believe that it has always existed (kek), that it emerged from nothing, or that a supreme being or force created it - which begs the question, who or what created that being? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 50] Auteur : oops_ur_dead Date : June 13th, 2020 08:45 AM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. My point was that it’s unfair to compare the existence of God with miracles. That comparison isn’t even close lol. No matter how you spin it the creation or whatever? The origins of the Universe don’t make any sense; you either have to believe that it has always existed (kek), that it emerged from nothing, or that a supreme being or force created it - which begs the question, who or what created that being? I agree with this, it's a bit weird that anything exists in the first place. Then again, it would also be just as weird if nothing existed at all. The way I see it, and religion in general, is that it's so outside of mine and anyone else's realm of understanding that it's truly not worth thinking about at all, at least in any serious capacity. Anything we can come up with is fancy speculation, because there's no way within our physical laws (at least, as far as we know) to formulate any scientific theory or gather evidence for any hypothesis. Thinking about what exists outside our universe, where our universe came from, and how time and the such formed is as much of a useless endeavour as hypothesizing whether aliens exist in a specific galaxy billions of light years from us and what they might have for lunch. I just don't see why it's something that people think is necessary to think about, beyond personal interest and fun theorycrafting. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 51] Auteur : oops_ur_dead Date : June 13th, 2020 08:56 AM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. I agree with this, it's a bit weird that anything exists in the first place. Then again, it would also be just as weird if nothing existed at all. Oh and my point with this is that if nothing existed at all, then we wouldn't be around to think about all this. It's a form of selection bias. We only think that the universe existing is significant because we can't possibly experience the other potential natural states in which it doesn't. The concept of time and distance is also another weird one; we only think anything is far away or takes a long time because that's the scales that we think in. Time is just another dimension, we just think it's somehow conceptually different to the other dimensions because that's how we evolved to perceive the world. The universe by and large exists only in the context of our perception of it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 52] Auteur : Sylvanas Date : June 13th, 2020 01:45 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. My point was that it’s unfair to compare the existence of God with miracles. That comparison isn’t even close lol. No matter how you spin it the creation or whatever? The origins of the Universe don’t make any sense; you either have to believe that it has always existed (kek) I think the comparison is fair. Lightning used to make as little sense as the origins of the universe does now. Either way, my point is that religious explanations were used to fill the void wherever science couldn't find answers. We don't have that answer now and likely never will, but it doesn't make the religious outlook anymore justifiable. The origins of the Universe don’t make any sense; you either have to believe that it has always existed (kek), that it emerged from nothing, or that a supreme being or force created it - which begs the question, who or what created that being? Exactly, but why is it preferable to involve a supreme being into the equation? Who created the thing who created god who created the universe? Ultimately we still can't explain why something came from nothing. God is just an unnecessary middle step. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 53] Auteur : yzb25 Date : June 13th, 2020 05:22 PM Title : Re: I challenge all Atheists to answer this question. Tbh, I hear a lot of (maybe most) atheists tout very cynical views on why religion exists or its origins i.e. it was made up to explain things or it was made up to try and control people. Noone can really say for sure how or where religion comes from, but I find it very unlikely it went like that. SJ's video is amusing but misrepresentative imo. I think these narrow explanations stem from the fact most atheists view religion as a collection of empirical statements. However, religious people don't necessarily view their religion that way, nor have they necessarily ever. I'm not simply asserting that they blindly believe these things out of emotion, either. That again is still viewing it in terms of empirical statements. Faith isn't an assertion of some statement or an emotional thing. It's more like a mood. If statements are the foreground objects in a painting, and the colours are the emotions, then faith is like the background. Whether you believe or not affects how you contextualize everything in the foreground without fundamentally changing the items in the foreground. Though it has no effect on the objects of the foreground, it totally changes the painting. I think the loss of faith in our society has less to do with what we've learnt about the foreground objects and more how we contextualize those objects. this video is okay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJZ8ib93vSk p;edit Well, there are a lot of empirical statements in religion too I guess lol. I guess I'm trying to say there's more to it than just a collection of empirical statements. And "faith" doesn't represent some kind of axiomatic belief. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-