* * * SC2 Mafia Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : S-FM 348: Standoff https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50820 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Auteur : MartinGG99 Date : March 12th, 2023 02:53 PM Title : S-FM 348: Standoff Setup Link (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/44383-S-FM-Standoff-(8P)) Host ISO (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/search.php?do=finduser&userid=21928&searchthreadid=50820&contenttype=vBForum_Post&showposts=1) Player Role (time of death) ISO (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/search.php?do=finduser&userid=9527&searchthreadid=50820&contenttype=vBForum_Post&showposts=1) Deathworlds ISO (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/search.php?do=finduser&userid=36817&searchthreadid=50820&contenttype=vBForum_Post&showposts=1) ikarusdk Bartender (SoD3) ISO (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/search.php?do=finduser&userid=27307&searchthreadid=50820&contenttype=vBForum_Post&showposts=1) Loldebite ISO (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/search.php?do=finduser&userid=29377&searchthreadid=50820&contenttype=vBForum_Post&showposts=1) Marshmallow Marshall ISO (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/search.php?do=finduser&userid=45970&searchthreadid=50820&contenttype=vBForum_Post&showposts=1) Mizery ISO (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/search.php?do=finduser&userid=3897&searchthreadid=50820&contenttype=vBForum_Post&showposts=1) powerofdeath Citizen (EoD1) ISO (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/search.php?do=finduser&userid=43484&searchthreadid=50820&contenttype=vBForum_Post&showposts=1) Varcron Chemist (SoD2) ISO (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/search.php?do=finduser&userid=46435&searchthreadid=50820&contenttype=vBForum_Post&showposts=1) Vittae SoD links / countdowns / important posts EoD1 Countdown (https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20230314T19&p0=419&msg=Standoff+EoD1+Countdown&font=serif&csz=1) EoD1 (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/50820-S-FM-348-Standoff?p=974388&viewfull=1#post974388) SoD2 Countdown (https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20230315T19&p0=419&msg=Standoff+SoD2+Countdown&font=serif&csz=1) EoD2 Countdown (https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20230317T19&p0=419&msg=Standoff+EoD2+Countdown&font=serif&csz=1) EoD2 (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/50820-S-FM-348-Standoff?p=974932&viewfull=1#post974932) SoD3 Countdown (https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20230318T19&p0=419&msg=Standoff+SoD3+Countdown&font=serif&csz=1) EoD3 Countdown (https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20230320T19&p0=419&msg=Standoff+EoD3+Countdown&font=serif&csz=1) Game End / Loyalist Concession (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/50820-S-FM-348-Standoff?p=975384&viewfull=1#post975384) Additional notes: Majority is enabled per request. 51% of the votes will mean a wagon is hammered and the vote bot will come in and lock the thread. I will likely process the hammer the next time it is 7pm EST, unless I am busy. Ties are decided by the loyalist/mafia's vote if and only if they did not split their own votes AND the resulting elimination would end the game in their favor. Otherwise RNG. Votes to skip/sleep work like any other vote. I normally process them in a special way, but because I forgot to clarify that in signups, they will instead be treated as if it was a regular wagon. If there are more votes to skip than any specific wagon, a skip will happen. If there is a tie involving a skip wagon, the tie will be treated as such, so there could be a skip if it is RNG'ed. Loyalist's chat runs 24/7, this was not specified in the setup nor in its replies so I am assuming this. you are a (Patriot/Loyalist) role eliminate the opposing faction or have nothing preventing that from occurring game thread: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/50820-S-FM-348-Standoff?p=973771 (insert loyalist chat link) Patriot Snitch Patriot Chemist Patriot Bartender Citizen Citizen Citizen Loyalist Coward Loyalist Investigator Reasons as to why its balanced: 1. Snitch cant confirm themselves without dying. Effectively a low-power role, to help give some power to town. 2. Coward can counter Chemist and to some extent Snitch, but not really bartender. Reason being Bartender's town play, if they are going to make use of their role, is to create fake-claimed situations in order to gauge reads. This happens regardless of whether Coward works and doesn't necessarily hurt town. 3. Chemist can still target/kill the investigator. Also helps to prevent the game from just being over after two mis-eliminations, which I feel is a tad too easy for the loyalists to pull off. Especially on a site that doesn't always do productive d1's. If I made chemist to be doctor, armor smith, or gun smith, or even stagecoach driver instead, that could potentially confirm two people when tipping the game back towards town's favor and can be really damning if played right. With chemist, its a minimum of one patriot confirmed and one loyalist dead and isn't as likely to "confirm" two or more people. Granted, with chemist, it can back-fire. But so long as Chemist lives, the game can't quite end in Loyalist's favor. 4. Loyalist Investigator can help loyalists discern fake-claims and what-not, which could improve their overall strategy and play. To some extent this alone could help them mitigate bartender / snitch 's impacts. Otherwise its low-impact-ish, which is what I think this setup needs to be roughly balanced in light of the town's options. [2:07 PM] ====================== Setup could be a fair bit swingy though if Chemist dies in some circumstances (edited) [2:08 PM] But, I felt like we needed something to prevent or cause a kill in town's favor, and the alternatives could be worse I think for the game's balance. Edit: I think Coward having 1 less hide may make this more balanced, as Chemist in its current state may have an only one in seventh chance of RNG hitting a loyalist with the Coward hiding, but I can't make such a change without announcing it and, without thinking up other changes, it may risk spewing Coward as Loyalist and/or existing. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Auteur : MartinGG99 Date : March 12th, 2023 04:01 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff deathworlds ikarusdk Loldebite Marshmallow Marshall Mizery powerofdeath Varcron Vittae Day 1 has begun! It ends in 48 hours. A countdown link will be added to the 1st post soon. 5 As a friendly reminder of the FM rules, five posts are required per day phase. I don't care what's in those posts, just only that you've made at least five. If you can't do that, I may replace you or warn you depending on my judgement. If there are any questions about anything, it is best to PM me either on-site or through discord. Public questions to me will not be answered unless I am suffering from a sudden and inexplicable need to be stupid. There may be more rules than what I've mentioned here, but if you're inexperienced, haven't played in past games in mine, or simply because of the fact I haven't clarified or mentioned it, you'll probably be given some level of leniency. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 12th, 2023 04:02 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Hey folks, I've been looking forward to this game! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 12th, 2023 04:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff thank GOD i thought i was going to rand wolf again -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 12th, 2023 04:09 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Just us here? Nice to have a SoD where posts aren't coming in faster than I can read or respond to them at least. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 12th, 2023 04:11 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Although at the same time I'm really wanting the game to get going ASAP. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 12th, 2023 04:19 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Hey folks, I've been looking forward to this game! So have I ^^ glad to be back in there! Varcron THE TRADITION MUST BE UPHOLDEN -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 12th, 2023 04:22 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Although at the same time I'm really wanting the game to get going ASAP. I agree - but how are you planning to proceed? Are you making the game progress atm? What's your experience with forum mafia? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 12th, 2023 04:25 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff uhm I DEMAND HYPE -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 12th, 2023 04:39 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Howdy -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 12th, 2023 04:44 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I agree - but how are you planning to proceed? Are you making the game progress atm? What's your experience with forum mafia? Happy to see you're trying to get us somewhere! I'm highly experienced with FM but this is my first time on this site. Lumi invited me to play here as I haven't played a FM game in some time (hence my personal excitement towards the game). I have some understanding of the site from speccing some of the games here though. I'm deliberately trying to hold off on posting a lot right now as I can be a bit intense in lighter games like this if I don't dial it down a notch and I don't want that to cause issues in a community I haven't yet played much in. It's unlikely I'll be able to accomplish too much tonight before I have to bow out but once I return later it should be much clearer what sort of players and information I'm working with. Thoughts on Miz's first post? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 12th, 2023 04:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff uhm I DEMAND HYPE HYPEEE!!!!!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 12th, 2023 04:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff What is SoD again? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 12th, 2023 04:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff What is SoD again? Stands for start of day. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 12th, 2023 05:10 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff powerofdeath am I correct in my belief that you're somebody who used to be a regular here but hasn't played in some time? Mind if I ask how long it's been since you've last played? If you're better as town or mafia? And basically anything else you want to chat about (I've got nothing else I specifically want to hear but got to start somewhere, thoughts on players who've posted so far?). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 12th, 2023 05:30 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Based on a very very very quick and not in the slightest bit thorough meta comparison between this game and MM's most recent games as both alignments on this site that I could find, he's probably more likely a villager here than rand. In the villa game of his I checked he immediately came in and started pushing for content (to such a degree that it felt like he was trying to get blood out of a stone in that game) but just like how I interpreted his above posts here he was putting a lot of effort into genuinely pushing the gamestate forwards and trying to accomplish things with minimal info. The entrance to the wolf game of his I read was starkly different, to such a degree that I had wolfread his first few posts in that game before I even checked what his alignment was. He was very aggressive in his opening to the point of being disingenuous, his logic was difficult to follow from a villager's perspective and he seemed much more eager to be jumping on an easy push than he did putting up the pretence of being pro town or opening the game up for more content. Sadly I have had almost no time to dig into this any deeper than a very surface level glance at two games I found and I won't have chance to do more before I have to leave but if anyone with meta on MM could tell me a bit more about him that would be greatly appreciated (or just look into what I'm bringing up here yourself in more detail perhaps). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 12th, 2023 05:30 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff powerofdeath am I correct in my belief that you're somebody who used to be a regular here but hasn't played in some time? Mind if I ask how long it's been since you've last played? If you're better as town or mafia? And basically anything else you want to chat about (I've got nothing else I specifically want to hear but got to start somewhere, thoughts on players who've posted so far?). Yeah, back then I was probably one of the most active FM players. Uh I think I stopped around 2017-2018 maybe? I remember signing up a couple of SFMs since but forgot I signed up for them and got replaced. This is the first time I rememebered. I think I was better as mafia but I definitely prefer playing as town by a wide margin. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 12th, 2023 05:38 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah, back then I was probably one of the most active FM players. Uh I think I stopped around 2017-2018 maybe? I remember signing up a couple of SFMs since but forgot I signed up for them and got replaced. This is the first time I rememebered. I think I was better as mafia but I definitely prefer playing as town by a wide margin. Yeah, similar to what I'd thought then but thanks for answering anyway. Anyone in this lobby you're familiar with at all? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 19] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 12th, 2023 05:41 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I know deathworlds a lot, marshmallow a tad bit, I don't think I ever met the rest -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 20] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 12th, 2023 05:44 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I know playing on this site is a lot different vibe compared to playing on different websites like mafiascum. People tend to troll a tad bit here, at least back then because they usually have same meta from the arcade game Mafia in SC2 (imagine having similar meta as Town of Salem) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 21] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 12th, 2023 06:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Good to know, thanks. Have a nice night y'all, hopefully more people will have checked in by the time I return. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 22] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 06:11 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff It has been far too long since I've played, and it is good to be back, both with some players that are new to the site, and players that haven't been here in years (omg hi PoD). Anyways I was thinking about the setup and I wanted to do some setup speculation because why wouldn't I, and also I want to see if at the end of the game my guesses were correct. Roles: Town: Citizen Armorsmith Gunsmith Chemist Electromaniac Physician Stagecoach Snitch Tracker Scout Investigator Janitor Bartender Coward Tailor Operator Scum: Blacksmith Chemist Electromaniac Physician Stagecoach Tracker Scout Investigator Janitor Bartender Coward Tailor Operator Now I'm going to separate the roles into categories based how I think a reasonable FM host would separate them Town: Protection (Aiding in the survival of town): Armorsmith, Physician, Bus Driver, Operator, Coward Offensive (These roles are town's offensive weapons): Gunsmith, Chemist, Electromaniac Investigative (These roles help us learn info): Snitch, Tracker, Scout, Investigator Vanilla (These roles either have no active ability or should not use their abilities at night): Citizen, Janitor, Tailor, Bartender If you are a Janitor, Tailor, or Bartender, do NOT use your abilities, as they will confuse us. Town is pretty simple to separate into its appropriate categories, standard FM balancing principles can be applied to a town's makeup. Scum: Protection: Physician, Coward Investigative: Scout, Tracker, Investigator Disruptive: Janitor, Tailor, Bartender, Bus Driver Offensive: Blacksmith (realistically the blacksmith is likely going to give guns to himself to increase kpn by .5), Electromaniac, Chemist. I don't think we're likely to see duplicates in category for the scum team, no double investigative, no double protection, certainly no double offensive (although I doubt we have any offensive whatsoever as the kpn would be OUCH!), and unlikely double disruptive. Now to look at the role distribution. Town Hidden Patriot Hidden Patriot Hidden Patriot Citizen Citizen Citizen Scum Hidden Loyalist Hidden Loyalist Two power scum, up to three town power. Generally you want the TPR to match up with the amount of power scum roles, but not all roles are made equal. If we have a janitor, this game gets a lot harder, as it appears they have unlimited charges, and it's not clear whether alignment is revealed. If we live in a world where we have a janitor, I expect we'll have three town power roles, if we don't have a janitor, then I expect we have two true TPRs and another role from the "vanilla" category I invented. Here's my guesses as to role list for scum, and I'll keep my speculations regarding the town side to myself outside of broad generalizations of amount. Investigative (likely tracker or investigator, as lookout abilities have significantly less value in the hands of scum outside of multiball)/Non-janitor disruptive vs Two true town power OR Non-scout investigative/Janitor vs Three true town power I find scum having a protection to be unlikely, protecting yourself from night kills as scum tends to lead to a reveal from the person who attempted to kill them, outing the scum in the process. If scum has a KPN we are toast, so I don't think martin gave them it (unless he was feeling particularly sadistic when choosing the list), so it's likely investigative and a disruptive. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 23] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 06:15 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff It has been far too long since I've played, and it is good to be back, both with some players that are new to the site, and players that haven't been here in years (omg hi PoD). Anyways I was thinking about the setup and I wanted to do some setup speculation because why wouldn't I, and also I want to see if at the end of the game my guesses were correct. Roles: Town: Citizen Armorsmith Gunsmith Chemist Electromaniac Physician Stagecoach Snitch Tracker Scout Investigator Janitor Bartender Coward Tailor Operator Scum: Blacksmith Chemist Electromaniac Physician Stagecoach Tracker Scout Investigator Janitor Bartender Coward Tailor Operator Now I'm going to separate the roles into categories based how I think a reasonable FM host would separate them Town: Protection (Aiding in the survival of town): Armorsmith, Physician, Bus Driver, Operator, Coward Offensive (These roles are town's offensive weapons): Gunsmith, Chemist, Electromaniac Investigative (These roles help us learn info): Snitch, Tracker, Scout, Investigator Vanilla (These roles either have no active ability or should not use their abilities at night): Citizen, Janitor, Tailor, Bartender If you are a Janitor, Tailor, or Bartender, do NOT use your abilities, as they will confuse us. Town is pretty simple to separate into its appropriate categories, standard FM balancing principles can be applied to a town's makeup. Scum: Protection: Physician, Coward Investigative: Scout, Tracker, Investigator Disruptive: Janitor, Tailor, Bartender, Bus Driver Offensive: Blacksmith (realistically the blacksmith is likely going to give guns to himself to increase kpn by .5), Electromaniac, Chemist. I don't think we're likely to see duplicates in category for the scum team, no double investigative, no double protection, certainly no double offensive (although I doubt we have any offensive whatsoever as the kpn would be OUCH!), and unlikely double disruptive. Now to look at the role distribution. Town Hidden Patriot Hidden Patriot Hidden Patriot Citizen Citizen Citizen Scum Hidden Loyalist Hidden Loyalist Two power scum, up to three town power. Generally you want the TPR to match up with the amount of power scum roles, but not all roles are made equal. If we have a janitor, this game gets a lot harder, as it appears they have unlimited charges, and it's not clear whether alignment is revealed. If we live in a world where we have a janitor, I expect we'll have three town power roles, if we don't have a janitor, then I expect we have two true TPRs and another role from the "vanilla" category I invented. Here's my guesses as to role list for scum, and I'll keep my speculations regarding the town side to myself outside of broad generalizations of amount. Investigative (likely tracker or investigator, as lookout abilities have significantly less value in the hands of scum outside of multiball)/Non-janitor disruptive vs Two true town power OR Non-scout investigative/Janitor vs Three true town power I find scum having a protection to be unlikely, protecting yourself from night kills as scum tends to lead to a reveal from the person who attempted to kill them, outing the scum in the process. If scum has a KPN we are toast, so I don't think martin gave them it (unless he was feeling particularly sadistic when choosing the list), so it's likely investigative and a disruptive. fuck me, I should've proofread, put operator in the disruptive class -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 24] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 06:15 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff fuck me, I should've proofread, put operator in the disruptive class *scum operator* brb killing myself for simple typos -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 25] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 06:24 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff anyways an open ended question for everyone, on a scale of 1-10 how impressed are you to know I'm right? Kappa Nah for real, it's been a long time since I've played, and I think I have it down on the money, but I would like to know other people's thoughts -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 26] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 12th, 2023 06:52 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Hello guys. I went to bed excited about this game and I woke up excited about this game. Since there are people who I've never met, I will briefly introduce myself. I have experience in starcraft mod arcade mafia, but I am relatively new in FM set up. This is my third game to be exact, my first game was Warcraft S FM hosted by MM, and my last one was Lazzy. Through these games I've met some of you present here. I loved the complexity of FM, and in depth analysis of everything rather than the complete chaotic nature of arcade. Having said all that, please do excuse me if I ask stupid questions and say stuff that makes me sound oblivious because I am still learning. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 27] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 12th, 2023 06:58 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Hello guys. I went to bed excited about this game and I woke up excited about this game. Since there are people who I've never met, I will briefly introduce myself. I have experience in starcraft mod arcade mafia, but I am relatively new in FM set up. This is my third game to be exact, my first game was Warcraft S FM hosted by MM, and my last one was Lazzy. Through these games I've met some of you present here. I loved the complexity of FM, and in depth analysis of everything rather than the complete chaotic nature of arcade. Having said all that, please do excuse me if I ask stupid questions and say stuff that makes me sound oblivious because I am still learning. Your name remind me of Ika, I miss Ika -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 28] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 12th, 2023 06:58 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff anyways an open ended question for everyone, on a scale of 1-10 how impressed are you to know I'm right? Kappa Nah for real, it's been a long time since I've played, and I think I have it down on the money, but I would like to know other people's thoughts how long have it been since you last played? Its been like 6-7 years for me -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 29] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 12th, 2023 07:01 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff anyways an open ended question for everyone, on a scale of 1-10 how impressed are you to know I'm right? Kappa Nah for real, it's been a long time since I've played, and I think I have it down on the money, but I would like to know other people's thoughts I'm just going to trust you are 95% correct, purely based on seniority and experience. But it'll be a good idea to come back to this post and follow up as days progress. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 30] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 12th, 2023 07:04 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff thank GOD i thought i was going to rand wolf again Happy to see you're trying to get us somewhere! I'm highly experienced with FM but this is my first time on this site. Lumi invited me to play here as I haven't played a FM game in some time (hence my personal excitement towards the game). I have some understanding of the site from speccing some of the games here though. I'm deliberately trying to hold off on posting a lot right now as I can be a bit intense in lighter games like this if I don't dial it down a notch and I don't want that to cause issues in a community I haven't yet played much in. It's unlikely I'll be able to accomplish too much tonight before I have to bow out but once I return later it should be much clearer what sort of players and information I'm working with. Thoughts on Miz's first post? Last game here with Mizery he was a town so I don't know what he means by he was going to rand wolf again, perhaps he is wolfing right now. Edit *he thought he was going to random wolf -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 31] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 12th, 2023 07:11 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff OH NO oops instead of 'reply with quote', i 'edit posted'!! What do I do -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 32] Auteur : MartinGG99 Date : March 12th, 2023 07:18 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I can see what edits occur in this thread and whether or not any malicious editing has occurred. Ikar's edit is perfectly fine. That said, I'd rather not have to provide a police statement every time someone edits, so please avoid editing if you can. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 33] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 09:31 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff coulda sworn editing was disabled in this part of the forum, eh -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 34] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 09:32 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff how long have it been since you last played? Its been like 6-7 years for me It's been about half a year or so for me, been slowing down with the amount of games I play these days, working full time and all -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 35] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 09:47 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff how long have it been since you last played? Its been like 6-7 years for me It's been about half a year or so for me, been slowing down with the amount of games I play these days, working full time and all -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 36] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 09:54 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Last game here with Mizery he was a town so I don't know what he means by he was going to rand wolf again, perhaps he is wolfing right now. Edit *he thought he was going to random wolf Eh saying "i'm not scum" at the start of the game is such a nothingburger, to me it can be seen as trying to hard to appear as town. Like, if you're town, then why state it unprompted? What, we're just supposed to expect the scum to say they aren't town? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 37] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 12th, 2023 10:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Happy to see you're trying to get us somewhere! I'm highly experienced with FM but this is my first time on this site. Lumi invited me to play here as I haven't played a FM game in some time (hence my personal excitement towards the game). I have some understanding of the site from speccing some of the games here though. I'm deliberately trying to hold off on posting a lot right now as I can be a bit intense in lighter games like this if I don't dial it down a notch and I don't want that to cause issues in a community I haven't yet played much in. It's unlikely I'll be able to accomplish too much tonight before I have to bow out but once I return later it should be much clearer what sort of players and information I'm working with. Thoughts on Miz's first post? Ahh, I suspected Lumi had brought you here, but I mistakenly concluded from what they told me when I asked them that they did not know you lol - makes sense. As for posting a lot, it's very variable around here (sometimes we have 1k posts/day, sometimes... much less), so don't be afraid to say things that come to mind. Trying to say relevant stuff instead of spamming is always a good idea, though. About Mizery's first post: almost every time I tried to read them based on such things, I failed miserably; at this point, I consider whatever successes I might have had when doing it as pure luck. It seems to be easier to read them based on the results they yield (pro-town or pro-scum) than on posts that are basically just WIFOM sandwiches, especially since they always post these. Perhaps someone who knows them better (like Lumi) could tell us more, but I don't think there's anyone around who does, unfortunately. TLDR: mizery, if you're scum, you need to help town for real so that we townread you ideally by dying after having revealed your teammates thanks HYPEEE!!!!!! Thanks xD -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 38] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 12th, 2023 10:25 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I know deathworlds a lot, marshmallow a tad bit, I don't think I ever met the rest Lol saying you know me a tad bit is quite generous imo, considering how I only really know you from the archive and from the fact you replaced out from some game years ago xD. Glad to see you existing among us, though! I know playing on this site is a lot different vibe compared to playing on different websites like mafiascum. People tend to troll a tad bit here, at least back then because they usually have same meta from the arcade game Mafia in SC2 (imagine having similar meta as Town of Salem) I'd say this isn't really true anymore It has been far too long since I've played, and it is good to be back, both with some players that are new to the site, and players that haven't been here in years (omg hi PoD). Anyways I was thinking about the setup and I wanted to do some setup speculation because why wouldn't I, and also I want to see if at the end of the game my guesses were correct. Roles: Town: Citizen Armorsmith Gunsmith Chemist Electromaniac Physician Stagecoach Snitch Tracker Scout Investigator Janitor Bartender Coward Tailor Operator Scum: Blacksmith Chemist Electromaniac Physician Stagecoach Tracker Scout Investigator Janitor Bartender Coward Tailor Operator Now I'm going to separate the roles into categories based how I think a reasonable FM host would separate them Town: Protection (Aiding in the survival of town): Armorsmith, Physician, Bus Driver, Operator, Coward Offensive (These roles are town's offensive weapons): Gunsmith, Chemist, Electromaniac Investigative (These roles help us learn info): Snitch, Tracker, Scout, Investigator Vanilla (These roles either have no active ability or should not use their abilities at night): Citizen, Janitor, Tailor, Bartender If you are a Janitor, Tailor, or Bartender, do NOT use your abilities, as they will confuse us. Town is pretty simple to separate into its appropriate categories, standard FM balancing principles can be applied to a town's makeup. Scum: Protection: Physician, Coward Investigative: Scout, Tracker, Investigator Disruptive: Janitor, Tailor, Bartender, Bus Driver Offensive: Blacksmith (realistically the blacksmith is likely going to give guns to himself to increase kpn by .5), Electromaniac, Chemist. I don't think we're likely to see duplicates in category for the scum team, no double investigative, no double protection, certainly no double offensive (although I doubt we have any offensive whatsoever as the kpn would be OUCH!), and unlikely double disruptive. Now to look at the role distribution. Town Hidden Patriot Hidden Patriot Hidden Patriot Citizen Citizen Citizen Scum Hidden Loyalist Hidden Loyalist Two power scum, up to three town power. Generally you want the TPR to match up with the amount of power scum roles, but not all roles are made equal. If we have a janitor, this game gets a lot harder, as it appears they have unlimited charges, and it's not clear whether alignment is revealed. If we live in a world where we have a janitor, I expect we'll have three town power roles, if we don't have a janitor, then I expect we have two true TPRs and another role from the "vanilla" category I invented. Here's my guesses as to role list for scum, and I'll keep my speculations regarding the town side to myself outside of broad generalizations of amount. Investigative (likely tracker or investigator, as lookout abilities have significantly less value in the hands of scum outside of multiball)/Non-janitor disruptive vs Two true town power OR Non-scout investigative/Janitor vs Three true town power I find scum having a protection to be unlikely, protecting yourself from night kills as scum tends to lead to a reveal from the person who attempted to kill them, outing the scum in the process. If scum has a KPN we are toast, so I don't think martin gave them it (unless he was feeling particularly sadistic when choosing the list), so it's likely investigative and a disruptive. Perhaps there is something I am missing (might have to do with the fact I should sleep lol), but apart from the "don't use janitor abilities and the like if you're town" message, which is probably necessary and relatively useful, this whole post seems a little... empty, in spite of its size. Where do you want to lead us with this? I feel like we should wait until we have something before going into setup speculation like this, considering it's straight up page 1. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 39] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 10:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Oh, and assuming that every scum KPN goes through, we can only mislynch today. 2 scum v 6 town -mislynch- 2 scum v 5 town -night kill- Day 2 is 2 scum v 4 town, assuming another mislynch and night kill, we lose -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 40] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 12th, 2023 10:28 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Eh saying "i'm not scum" at the start of the game is such a nothingburger, to me it can be seen as trying to hard to appear as town. Like, if you're town, then why state it unprompted? What, we're just supposed to expect the scum to say they aren't town? His opening statement in that game was pretty important in that his following posts made it easier for other towns believe he was town (from my POV). I wouldn't say it is nothing at this stage. I know it's just based off one game. It probably is him trying to appear as town as you said though. I'm just reading it as I see it. If scum specifically claimed they are town, yeah that is nothing. But soft claim town by saying something that might not be true (unless Mizery played elsewhere where he was wolfing)? You could read more into it. And maybe it is unwise to say you are town, but in some set ups I'm sure it is a strategy to hard claim town early in day 1 especially as a power role that is limited in number. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 41] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 10:29 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Perhaps there is something I am missing (might have to do with the fact I should sleep lol), but apart from the "don't use janitor abilities and the like if you're town" message, which is probably necessary and relatively useful, this whole post seems a little... empty, in spite of its size. Where do you want to lead us with this? I feel like we should wait until we have something before going into setup speculation like this, considering it's straight up page 1. I like setup speculation, it's fun. And now is the perfect time to go into setup speculation, use it as a springboard to jump into other subjects when there isn't a whole lot going on. What, you'd rather I do my "deathworlds setup speculation"tm in the middle of day 2 when we're talking about night results? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 42] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 10:29 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff So have I ^^ glad to be back in there! Varcron THE TRADITION MUST BE UPHOLDEN GOOOOOFYYYYY -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 43] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 10:30 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff deathworlds why you gone so long :( -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 44] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 12th, 2023 10:31 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I thought his set up speculation was fun to read. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 45] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 10:32 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah, back then I was probably one of the most active FM players. Uh I think I stopped around 2017-2018 maybe? I remember signing up a couple of SFMs since but forgot I signed up for them and got replaced. This is the first time I rememebered. I think I was better as mafia but I definitely prefer playing as town by a wide margin. You must've stopped playing about a year before I started FM in general. I think you were in the S-FM one or two before I joined with Fractured Whizzbang. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 46] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 10:32 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If scum specifically claimed they are town, yeah that is nothing. But soft claim town by saying something that might not be true (unless Mizery played elsewhere where he was wolfing)? You could read more into it. And maybe it is unwise to say you are town, but in some set ups I'm sure it is a strategy to hard claim town early in day 1 especially as a power role that is limited in number. This is among the closest this site gets to pure distilled mafia, town vs scum, informed minority vs uninformed majority, no multiball, no hidden setup, no neutrals. There isn't any reason for anyone to claim anything other than a town alignment, so doing so is kinda forcing the issue and drawing unnecessary attention to it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 47] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 10:33 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff deathworlds why you gone so long :( working full time SAD! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 48] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 10:33 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I thought his set up speculation was fun to read. I'm glad someone appreciates it -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 49] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 10:34 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff working full time SAD! fair enough, that'll do it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 50] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 10:35 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm going to throw out right now that my night action is not town-friendly, and I won't be using it unless it's absolutely mandatory for the town's survival. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 51] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 12th, 2023 10:37 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff This is among the closest this site gets to pure distilled mafia, town vs scum, informed minority vs uninformed majority, no multiball, no hidden setup, no neutrals. There isn't any reason for anyone to claim anything other than a town alignment, so doing so is kinda forcing the issue and drawing unnecessary attention to it. Yeah I get that. I wasn't saying he was claiming something else, but rather I think his opening statement was worth reviewing later on, where as you are saying it is nothing because what could he benefit from claiming town. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 52] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 12th, 2023 10:38 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I need to have a role card on a separate page... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 53] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 12th, 2023 10:38 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff role cards -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 54] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 10:38 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I need to have a role card on a separate page... How've you been? I recall the last FM game I played you were playing your first ever game. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 55] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 10:41 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Happy to see you're trying to get us somewhere! I'm highly experienced with FM but this is my first time on this site. Lumi invited me to play here as I haven't played a FM game in some time (hence my personal excitement towards the game). I have some understanding of the site from speccing some of the games here though. I'm deliberately trying to hold off on posting a lot right now as I can be a bit intense in lighter games like this if I don't dial it down a notch and I don't want that to cause issues in a community I haven't yet played much in. It's unlikely I'll be able to accomplish too much tonight before I have to bow out but once I return later it should be much clearer what sort of players and information I'm working with. Thoughts on Miz's first post? Pleasure to have you on the site! Lumi's awesome so if he brought you here you're good in my books. I think Miz's first post is rather odd bread crumbing town in their very first post. Is it scummy? Not necessarily, but odd for sure. Don't feel the need to stifle yourself even if you view yourself as very intense in the early/lighter games -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 56] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 12th, 2023 10:42 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm going to throw out right now that my night action is not town-friendly, and I won't be using it unless it's absolutely mandatory for the town's survival. If true: Armorsmith Gunsmith Blacksmith Chemist Electromaniac Physician Stagecoach Driver Snitch Tracker Scout Investigator Janitor Bartender Coward Tailor Operator -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 57] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 12th, 2023 10:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff How've you been? I recall the last FM game I played you were playing your first ever game. I am doing great! Thank you. Yeah that was my very first game with Lumi coaching. This is my third one. I've been wanting to play some more FM! I was really excited for this set up to start. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 58] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 12th, 2023 10:46 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If true: Armorsmith Gunsmith Blacksmith Chemist Electromaniac Physician Stagecoach Driver Snitch Tracker Scout Investigator Janitor Bartender Coward Tailor Operator I don't see a reason why Varcron would lie about it tbh. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 59] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 10:46 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If true: Armorsmith Gunsmith Blacksmith Chemist Electromaniac Physician Stagecoach Driver Snitch Tracker Scout Investigator Janitor Bartender Coward Tailor Operator I disagree in how you think that Operator, Stagecoach Driver, and Coward are not town friendly Potentially redirecting a factional kill into a Loyalist faction member, or a kill from lets say a gun someone handed out, could be incredibly useful. The Stagecoach Driver in particular could be used to protect a confirmed Patriot role. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 60] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 10:47 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm going to throw out right now that my night action is not town-friendly, and I won't be using it unless it's absolutely mandatory for the town's survival. interesting -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 61] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 10:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I am doing great! Thank you. Yeah that was my very first game with Lumi coaching. This is my third one. I've been wanting to play some more FM! I was really excited for this set up to start. Awesome! It's always great seeing new people, especially from the mod join up in FM. I did it too back in 2019, and Renegade along with a few others did the same. This setup too is awesome, so you picked a good one to join in on for your third. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 62] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 10:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If true: Armorsmith Gunsmith Blacksmith Chemist Electromaniac Physician Stagecoach Driver Snitch Tracker Scout Investigator Janitor Bartender Coward Tailor Operator also electro has higher odds of hitting at least 1 scum, so town electro is 100% a positive in my book -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 63] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 12th, 2023 10:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I disagree in how you think that Operator, Stagecoach Driver, and Coward are not town friendly Potentially redirecting a factional kill into a Loyalist faction member, or a kill from lets say a gun someone handed out, could be incredibly useful. The Stagecoach Driver in particular could be used to protect a confirmed Patriot role. I think they are not town friendly at least during N1. Once we have a confirmed Patriot role, they can be very powerful. But for N1? I think it'll just create confusion for patriots. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 64] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 10:49 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff interesting interesting More like flashbacks to the jello man getting turbo lynched for saying that same word. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 65] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 10:49 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff interesting More like flashbacks to the jello man getting turbo lynched for saying that same word. Kappa -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 66] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 10:50 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff also chemist is town positive too wtf. a night kill is a night kill is a night kill, chemist is just a better vig -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 67] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 10:51 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I think they are not town friendly at least during N1. Once we have a confirmed Patriot role, they can be very powerful. But for N1? I think it'll just create confusion for patriots. Fair, I can agree with that for D1. Later on though I definitely think that those roles are more potent. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 68] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 10:52 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff also chemist is town positive too wtf. a night kill is a night kill is a night kill, chemist is just a better vig Ehhhhhh chemist could be, it depends. If the chemist decides to go on a rampage town loses, or if they miskill town also loses. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 69] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 12th, 2023 10:53 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff also electro has higher odds of hitting at least 1 scum, so town electro is 100% a positive in my book Ah yes that is true. I completely overlooked the fact apart from a town electro there are two patriots vs two loyalists that could visit others. Still quite risky tho wouldn't you agree? You could potentially target two Patriots who visit each other.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 70] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 10:55 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ah yes that is true. I completely overlooked the fact apart from a town electro there are two patriots vs two loyalists that could visit others. Still quite risky tho wouldn't you agree? You could potentially target two Patriots who visit each other.... I think Electro as well is a maybe depending on how well it is utilized by the player. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 71] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 10:55 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ehhhhhh chemist could be, it depends. Chemist gives feedback when they poison their target, if town they can spill their guts out as they're dying, and also vote. If the chemist decides to go on a rampage town loses, or if they miskill town also loses. I mean, this is true of most town sided killing roles, but I don't factor in skill issues with theory -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 72] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 12th, 2023 10:56 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If we do mislynch D1, 2 Loyalists vs 5 Patriots N1 Patriot chemist targets a Patriot Loyalist kills a Patriot Then it is immediately 2 Loyalist vs 3 Patriots... I personally don't think town killing role should be killing N1. Neither should roles that could just end up creating confusion. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 73] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 10:56 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ah yes that is true. I completely overlooked the fact apart from a town electro there are two patriots vs two loyalists that could visit others. Still quite risky tho wouldn't you agree? You could potentially target two Patriots who visit each other.... scum can also use their factional kill in addition to their other abilities, so there's at least two loyalists with like, three abilities to use. Much higher odds that a loyalist dies in a 1 for 1, which is always an acceptable trade -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 74] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 12th, 2023 10:57 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Well actually I missed the part 'causing them to die at the end of the ensuing day' Still I don't think they should kill N1 at least. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 75] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 10:59 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Well actually I missed the part 'causing them to die at the end of the ensuing day' Still I don't think they should kill N1 at least. You're probably right, with the chemist at least -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 76] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 11:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff You're probably right, with the chemist at least I wouldn't mind seeing the Electro trying stuff N1 Highly unlikely that they get a kill N1 unless it's a PvL and LvP scenario -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 77] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 11:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I wouldn't mind seeing the Electro trying stuff N1 Highly unlikely that they get a kill N1 unless it's a PvL and LvP scenario Assuming we have an electro, that is. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 78] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 11:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff oh, also. LEAVE A LAST WILL -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 79] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 11:01 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff oh, also. LEAVE A LAST WILL Can I leave a mod style last will? : D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 80] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 12th, 2023 11:02 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Varcron is a citizen xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD that is my guess on top of my head without assessing anything analysing anything. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 81] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 11:02 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Can I leave a mod style last will? : D n1: red, doctor n2: oops no target n3: yellow, already dead n4: orange -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 82] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 11:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Varcron is a citizen xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD that is my guess on top of my head without assessing anything analysing anything. shhhh let varcron do the funny WIFOM -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 83] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 11:04 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff n1: red, doctor n2: oops no target n3: yellow, already dead n4: orange Nah like you're a coroner N1 Useless N2 5v2 VB LO,GF,Jan role is det N3 Useless again no one died -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 84] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 11:07 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff shhhh let varcron do the funny WIFOM Ye let me do the WIFOM and get lynched because everyone thinks I'm out of my mind and scummy lol -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 85] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 11:09 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ye let me do the WIFOM and get lynched because everyone thinks I'm out of my mind and scummy lol if it's any consolation I think what you're doing, regardless of role and alignment, is smart -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 86] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 11:10 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff if it's any consolation I think what you're doing, regardless of role and alignment, is smart Hey someone likes the insanity! Huh? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 87] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 11:11 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Hey someone likes the insanity! Huh? Huh????? Goofy!!!! interesting -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 88] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 11:11 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff god I love being back -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 89] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 11:12 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Huh????? Goofy!!!! interesting I still have nightmares about that Madness game where you give me 3 cult roles and I ended up being the Jester King, and each cult member I recruited was tasked with lynching me. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 90] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 11:12 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I still have nightmares about that Madness game where you give me 3 cult roles and I ended up being the Jester King, and each cult member I recruited was tasked with lynching me. Gave* -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 91] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 12th, 2023 11:14 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ok I don't know if this is appropriate right now but I townread deathworlds. 1. His speculation post was fun to read. 2. If you are a Janitor, Tailor, or Bartender, do NOT use your abilities, as they will confuse us. T Because he does not know some players here he can't trust that the rest of us won't do something that is detrimental to the patriots, so he did advise certain roles from using their action in N1 3. oh, also. LEAVE A LAST WILL I did not know I could. Very helpful. I wouldn't have done it without this prompt. 4. Just trying to be helpful for town (ok im tired of writing loyalists and patriots and i keep making typos when i do) TOO EARLY? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 92] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 11:15 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I still have nightmares about that Madness game where you give me 3 cult roles and I ended up being the Jester King, and each cult member I recruited was tasked with lynching me. :tf: I tell people about that story all the time and it just cracks me up everytime I tell it. Nothing will beat hosting insanity -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 93] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 11:16 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff :tf: I tell people about that story all the time and it just cracks me up everytime I tell it. Nothing will beat hosting insanity If you ever get the time to run it again, I would sign up for it in a heartbeat -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 94] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 12th, 2023 11:16 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Man I wanna hear about it haha -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 95] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 11:17 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Man I wanna hear about it haha Remind deathworlds or I after the game (or MM if he remembers) so we don't clutter it here. My god that was a fun game -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 96] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 11:20 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Man I wanna hear about it haha I hosted a unique setup back in 2016 (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37211-S-FM-204-Insanity), and again in 2020 (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/46521-S-FM-299-Insanity-2-the-Second-One-Gamethread), Varcron is talking about the 2020 game. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 97] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 11:24 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I hosted a unique setup back in 2016 (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37211-S-FM-204-Insanity), and again in 2020 (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/46521-S-FM-299-Insanity-2-the-Second-One-Gamethread), Varcron is talking about the 2020 game. Post #3832 is where the meme happened -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 98] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 12th, 2023 11:30 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I had to see if there was nother player named vaccuum -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 99] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 12th, 2023 11:33 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I had to see if there was nother player named vaccuum Nah that's the nickname given to me by Cucho and Frinckles for a little while -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 100] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 12th, 2023 11:53 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff anyways im going to fill myself with nyquill and go to bed, y'all have a good night, hope to see some more people check in and or post more! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 101] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 13th, 2023 12:00 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Last game here with Mizery he was a town so I don't know what he means by he was going to rand wolf again, perhaps he is wolfing right now. Edit *he thought he was going to random wolf i've played 6 games last year (assuming i didnt play one i forgot to track) and i have a 50/50 ratio of rands lol. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 102] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 13th, 2023 12:09 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ok I don't know if this is appropriate right now but I townread deathworlds. 1. His speculation post was fun to read. 2. Because he does not know some players here he can't trust that the rest of us won't do something that is detrimental to the patriots, so he did advise certain roles from using their action in N1 3. I did not know I could. Very helpful. I wouldn't have done it without this prompt. 4. Just trying to be helpful for town (ok im tired of writing loyalists and patriots and i keep making typos when i do) TOO EARLY? I'd say "I'll explain more later" but I really won't, I think those two posts from deathworlds aren't towny, but more specifically probably because I already find him near the bottom of my PoE. Those two specific posts are easy posts a wolf can use to get towncred (example A: this post of yours) and also feign usefulness in thread without giving reads or actually interacting in more meaningful ways. his post being excited about getting back is the towniest thing from his posting so far. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 103] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 12:12 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I was rereading the setup and saw that hidden PR can be a citizen, which sucks because if we have 1 mafia pretending to be a PR, and we only have 2 town PR, then there is no counter claims. Since most PRs can be either alignments, it boil down to your basic scumhunting. Oh a person claim detective? A doc? Well he can be mafia detective or doc too! I strongly believe that a massclaim should be in order on Day 2 if no mafia died. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 104] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 13th, 2023 12:15 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff anyways im going to fill myself with nyquill and go to bed, y'all have a good night, hope to see some more people check in and or post more! That's actually sounding like a good idea right now Have a good night guys, I'll check in tomorrow when people hopefully post some more. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 105] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 12:24 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah its 3 am here too I’m heading to bed now -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 106] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 13th, 2023 12:33 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff First impressions Mizery ikarusdk Vittae Marshmallow Marshall Loldebite powerofdeath Deathworlds Varcron Vittae had a good opening that didn't involve a lot of mech discussion, something that is less likely for wolves to do in a semi-closed setup where talking about mech is 10% distraction, 20% fluff 15% wolves not wanting useful things to discuss, 50% helpful and 50% lame but 100% a possibility from both sides of the game Ikarus in general is very pure and i wouldn't touch, especially one of his posts [insert post here] which was uberpure and towny of him. Don't have a read on MM so far but Vittae has him as a gth townread rn it seems based on entry so I'll go with it because I can have a hard time seeing people who meme on entry and whatnot as Woflier than i probably should most of the time. Based on their interactions the two wolves are likely not varcron/deathworlds and varcon's carelessness about how he is percieved in rambling about another game is slightly towny but not wanting to discuss it further if it's truly a good memory he wants to revisit makes it an option that he's trying to not get suspicion from being too far off topic I'm not going to go into deathworlds much because my main suspicions come from his lack of content so far beyond mech discussion, and trying to boost varcron as a PR by saying the "i know what you're doing right now" as if other people aren't and wouldn't notice the callback, implying he wanted to make a point in thread to reference in the future when people ask him why he's not a wolf. He was also in thread when Ikarus posted the townread on him and despite interacting with other posts he ignores that one. Power is solidly null with no content leaning wolfy from post in thread being disengaged and really only interacting with deathworlds about how long their break was which could imply more likely not w with death but easily fakeable and easy to turn my read around here if i feel the need. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 107] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 01:21 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Hey there ! I'm kinda mad at myself for missing SoD but I'll make up for it soon. Gotta work a bit before I catch up, tho. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 108] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 01:40 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Hello guys. I went to bed excited about this game and I woke up excited about this game. Since there are people who I've never met, I will briefly introduce myself. I have experience in starcraft mod arcade mafia, but I am relatively new in FM set up. This is my third game to be exact, my first game was Warcraft S FM hosted by MM, and my last one was Lazzy. Through these games I've met some of you present here. I loved the complexity of FM, and in depth analysis of everything rather than the complete chaotic nature of arcade. Having said all that, please do excuse me if I ask stupid questions and say stuff that makes me sound oblivious because I am still learning. You completely forgot the AMAZIIIING Warcraft cohost ? BOOHOO Well, I can't really blame you for it, I think one can count my posts that game on the fingers of the one hand... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 109] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 01:45 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff coulda sworn editing was disabled in this part of the forum, eh Yeah, well, we're also supposed to have a vote history feature... Please do not click on that button Oh, and assuming that every scum KPN goes through, we can only mislynch today. 2 scum v 6 town -mislynch- 2 scum v 5 town -night kill- Day 2 is 2 scum v 4 town, assuming another mislynch and night kill, we lose Great time to note that lynching is NOT mandatory, I assume this is achieved by voting "skip" ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 110] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 01:47 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Hey folks, catching up with stuff now. powerofdeath -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 111] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 01:58 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Last game here with Mizery he was a town so I don't know what he means by he was going to rand wolf again, perhaps he is wolfing right now. Edit *he thought he was going to random wolf Hi! I'm guessing you didn't realise but several players here including Mizery play a lot of games on different mafia sites. That's what she'll be referring to, getting wolf multiple times in other games offsite. To explain what I was personally reading into the post, I thought her enthusiasm was pretty town and it wasn't a post that a wolf was as likely to think of to make in a game as a villager but that the post had very likely been something Mizery thought of before being given their role (regardless of their alignment they were probably genuinely frustrated with randing wolf a bunch) so it's unlikely to give anything alignment indicative. I was mostly only asking on that post as it was the only post at the time that was -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 112] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 01:58 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Sorry, sent that accidentally -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 113] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 02:00 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I was rereading the setup and saw that hidden PR can be a citizen, which sucks because if we have 1 mafia pretending to be a PR, and we only have 2 town PR, then there is no counter claims. Since most PRs can be either alignments, it boil down to your basic scumhunting. Oh a person claim detective? A doc? Well he can be mafia detective or doc too! I strongly believe that a massclaim should be in order on Day 2 if no mafia died. I might've misread/misunderstood but I'm quite sure citizen is one of the very few role that scum CANNOT get -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 114] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 02:00 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Hi! I'm guessing you didn't realise but several players here including Mizery play a lot of games on different mafia sites. That's what she'll be referring to, getting wolf multiple times in other games offsite. To explain what I was personally reading into the post, I thought her enthusiasm was pretty town and it wasn't a post that a wolf was as likely to think of to make in a game as a villager but that the post had very likely been something Mizery thought of before being given their role (regardless of their alignment they were probably genuinely frustrated with randing wolf a bunch) so it's unlikely to give anything alignment indicative. I was mostly only asking on that post as it was the only post at the time that was ...that was something the active players at the time could discuss and potentially have different / interesting opinions on. I would discard it as NAI now though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 115] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 02:07 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I might've misread/misunderstood but I'm quite sure citizen is one of the very few role that scum CANNOT get Which brings me to my point : should we make citizens claim to clear out PoE ? I know, I know, it is lame and cringe... So, should we be doing it ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 116] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 02:12 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Which brings me to my point : should we make citizens claim to clear out PoE ? I know, I know, it is lame and cringe... So, should we be doing it ? So basically a bucket-style massclaim where everyone says that they are either a citizen or a PR without specifying what PR specifically? Out of interest, what do you think that would accomplish? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 117] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 02:26 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff On another note, since you (Vittæ) and I seem to be the only ones online and active now that mizery's gone, feel free to engage me about whatever. To help jumpstart that, here's a rushed fresh out of bed readslist : cute people (T leaning) Ikarusdk (seems genuinely eager to engage in actual discussion to me or much better at pretending than I'd expect, and also cute posts) Varcron (Pretty good feeling about the interaction with deathworlds, above vittae for now because I know them a very tiny bit better) Vittae (Good feeling about the slot, I sense cute vibes. Yeah that might be irrational, sue me) boringly ordinary (odds are that idk how to read these but I'll pretend for now) PoD (Not much to think about but I get the tiniest of cute vibes and ) deathworlds (I agree that the mech is NAI, and nothing felt especially good or especially bad) mizery (I don't believe in judging off openings anyway, reads list is nice but honestly I'm pretty sure she would've done as much as any alignment) uglies (S leaning) MM (I very much dislike their last post to date. Sorting roles in utility buckets alone is worth doing, had I done that in my first game ever I would've seen you were scum much faster :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 118] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 02:31 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff So basically a bucket-style massclaim where everyone says that they are either a citizen or a PR without specifying what PR specifically? Out of interest, what do you think that would accomplish? Yes. Actually, do scum have a day chat too ? If they do the idea crumbles, probably. I assume scum would have to have at least one of theirs fakeclaim citizen, if they do play it accurately we don't gain much except an extra WIFOM layer as a freebie. Regardless, we might gain something and as such it's worth discussing. If you're afraid about town power roles getting outted & gutted, I wouldn't be. Citizens have the majority over scum, so we don't actually need any PR to win, provided we're good enough. That is assuming no extra NKP. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 119] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 02:32 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ahh, I suspected Lumi had brought you here, but I mistakenly concluded from what they told me when I asked them that they did not know you lol - makes sense. As for posting a lot, it's very variable around here (sometimes we have 1k posts/day, sometimes... much less), so don't be afraid to say things that come to mind. Trying to say relevant stuff instead of spamming is always a good idea, though. About Mizery's first post: almost every time I tried to read them based on such things, I failed miserably; at this point, I consider whatever successes I might have had when doing it as pure luck. It seems to be easier to read them based on the results they yield (pro-town or pro-scum) than on posts that are basically just WIFOM sandwiches, especially since they always post these. Perhaps someone who knows them better (like Lumi) could tell us more, but I don't think there's anyone around who does, unfortunately. TLDR: mizery, if you're scum, you need to help town for real so that we townread you ideally by dying after having revealed your teammates thanks Lumi was probably trying not to set your expectations too high since I'm *supposed* to be taking this game very chill. But yeah thank you for clarifying about the volume here. I actually do know Miz well but since I've been on a break for a while a lot of my meta on her isn't applicable any more (not that I was any good at reading her in the first place despite her being in theory not too hard to read lol). And yeah, I agree with you that her first post is NAI. I like her immediate dive into solving on return, she is a surprisingly reliable villager but back when I used to play more frequently she rarely put out a lot of solving as a wolf and would be much more prone to blend into the background / coast and not actively try to push the game forward in the way that I feel she is doing in thus game with her early reads list post that shows some depth of thought behind it and the reads with which I broadly agree with. So what I'm seeing from her aligns with how I would expect her to play as town, I'm just not really sure if her wolf range has caught up yet or not (until I check obviously). I'd give her a very mild town lean until I catch up more. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 120] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 02:44 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Will give some of my own reads once I've caught up deb. Mind talking to me about Vacron, PoD and MM in more detail? Those three are where our reads differ the most right now. Specifically: - Specifically what you like about the Varcron/deathworlds interaction. - The "cute vibes" you're getting from PoD. - You say you dislike MM's last post but why is that wolf-indicative and not as likely a villager making a post that you think is wrong? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 121] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 02:50 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yes. Actually, do scum have a day chat too ? If they do the idea crumbles, probably. I assume scum would have to have at least one of theirs fakeclaim citizen, if they do play it accurately we don't gain much except an extra WIFOM layer as a freebie. Regardless, we might gain something and as such it's worth discussing. If you're afraid about town power roles getting outted & gutted, I wouldn't be. Citizens have the majority over scum, so we don't actually need any PR to win, provided we're good enough. That is assuming no extra NKP. Yeah pretty sure wolves were stated to have daychat so they could coordinate claims as needed. I'm not against a massclaim on principle (there are several setups including the champs setup the year before last that I've seen broken from such a thing) but I'm not expecting it to give us a net positive here tbh. I can certainly take a more detailed look when I have the time though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 122] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 02:52 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Will give some of my own reads once I've caught up deb. Mind talking to me about Vacron, PoD and MM in more detail? Those three are where our reads differ the most right now. Specifically: - Specifically what you like about the Varcron/deathworlds interaction. Wrapping up a big post but sparing a bit of time to answer quickly : Not sure, felt genuine to me, not much of a "muhaha I am making them waste their precious time on me recollecting memories muhaha". That's about it, really - The "cute vibes" you're getting from PoD. There is nothing to explain about PoD, I don't think I'm basing this feeling on anything remotely solid, call it a weak gut feeling if you will. In other words : there's nothing to explain, I don't know either. - You say you dislike MM's last post but why is that wolf-indicative and not as likely a villager making a post that you think is wrong? I don't often assume someone is wrong when playing mafia (which admittedly has gotten me inaccurately turbo nitro hard tunneling on... some of this forum's least bright members). In fact, off the top of my head I can't recall a single time I've make that assumption. I guess I think assuming people are wrong is... wrong :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 123] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 02:56 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Loyalist's chat runs 24/7, this was not specified in the setup nor in its replies so I am assuming this. Shit. Actually, we DO gain something out of it : it gives us better information about the kind of setup we're playing. Assuming EXACTLY 1 scum fakeclaims citizen (which is the optimal response IMO) : If town has 3 PR : - 4 PR claims, 1 of which is scum : 25% - 4 citizen claims, 1 of which is scum : 25% If town has 2 PRs : - 3 PR claims, 1 of which is scum : 33% - 5 citizen claims, 1 of which is scum : 20% Since even the informed majority does NOT know how many PRs there are, they can't adapt their response to unless they are the very last to claim. Which they might. Ugh. If town has 3 PR : - if BOTH scum fakeclaim citizens : - 3 PR claims, 0% scum - 5 citizen claims, 40% scum - if BOTH scum claim PR (this should NEVER happen as this gives town the most information): - 5 PR claims, 40% scum - 3 citizen claim, 0% scum If town has 2 PR : - if BOTH scum fakeclaim citizens (shouldn't happen either but less terrible that both claiming PR with 3 TPR) : - 2 PR claims, 0% scum - 6 citizen claims : 33% - if BOTH claim PR: - 4 PR claims, 50% scum - 4 citizen claims, 0% scum Which means that the expected results are : If town has 3 PR : EITHER - 4 PR claims, 1 of which is scum : 25% - 4 citizen claims, 1 of which is scum : 25% OR - 3 PR claims, 0% scum - 5 citizen claims, 40% scum If town has 2 PRs : EITHER - 3 PR claims, 1 of which is scum : 33% - 5 citizen claims, 1 of which is scum : 20% OR - 4 PR claims, 50% scum - 4 citizen claims, 0% scum Well this is disapointing. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 124] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 03:04 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Well I guess we could go for a 37.5% chance to lynch scum by randoming PRs ! Lol. Mh actually I wonder if scum both claiming PR is a good idea, I'm starting to think that there is no good option for scum if the setup has only 2 TPRs. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 125] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 03:13 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Shit. Actually, we DO gain something out of it : it gives us better information about the kind of setup we're playing. Assuming EXACTLY 1 scum fakeclaims citizen (which is the optimal response IMO) : If town has 3 PR : - 4 PR claims, 1 of which is scum : 25% - 4 citizen claims, 1 of which is scum : 25% If town has 2 PRs : - 3 PR claims, 1 of which is scum : 33% - 5 citizen claims, 1 of which is scum : 20% Since even the informed majority does NOT know how many PRs there are, they can't adapt their response to unless they are the very last to claim. Which they might. Ugh. If town has 3 PR : - if BOTH scum fakeclaim citizens : - 3 PR claims, 0% scum - 5 citizen claims, 40% scum - if BOTH scum claim PR (this should NEVER happen as this gives town the most information): - 5 PR claims, 40% scum - 3 citizen claim, 0% scum If town has 2 PR : - if BOTH scum fakeclaim citizens (shouldn't happen either but less terrible that both claiming PR with 3 TPR) : - 2 PR claims, 0% scum - 6 citizen claims : 33% - if BOTH claim PR: - 4 PR claims, 50% scum - 4 citizen claims, 0% scum Which means that the expected results are : If town has 3 PR : EITHER - 4 PR claims, 1 of which is scum : 25% - 4 citizen claims, 1 of which is scum : 25% OR - 3 PR claims, 0% scum - 5 citizen claims, 40% scum If town has 2 PRs : EITHER - 3 PR claims, 1 of which is scum : 33% - 5 citizen claims, 1 of which is scum : 20% OR - 4 PR claims, 50% scum - 4 citizen claims, 0% scum Well this is disapointing. Yeah, it was a good shout but I don't think it gives much of a benefit here. Worth noting though that us we did do a massclaim it would be best to do it in order from most likely wolf first to most likely villager last in order to force the wolf team to commit hopefully before they knew how many PRs there were. Wouldn't expect it to make much of a difference here though as the same strategy is optimal regardless. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 126] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 03:15 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Well I guess we could go for a 37.5% chance to lynch scum by randoming PRs ! Lol. Mh actually I wonder if scum both claiming PR is a good idea, I'm starting to think that there is no good option for scum if the setup has only 2 TPRs. The issue is that we don't know if 33% of the PR claims are scum or not in that case as both scum could also just claim citizen and laugh as we chop through our PRs. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 127] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 03:21 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also people seem to thing otherwise but town chemist is a really strong role actually. Have to make sure not to be redirected but if they can successfully poison a player that's the equivalent of one free extra day elimination (as we have an even number of players) assuming the mafia team only has 1 kill per night. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 128] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 03:27 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ehhhhhh chemist could be, it depends. If the chemist decides to go on a rampage town loses, or if they miskill town also loses. Due to even numbers in this playerlist, unless other unexpected deaths happen a chemist miskill would not reduce the number of day eliminations available to us. At our current rate with no extra kills we would just end up at a final 6 / final 4 situation and then vote no elimination anyway which means we'd be giving the wolf team an extra kill regardless and at least a chemist misskill would be on our terms not theirs. The hypothetical chemist should obviously not go on a rampage though, just kill in the consensus while being wary of redirection roles the wolves may have (coach driver especially). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 129] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 03:45 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Wrapping up a big post but sparing a bit of time to answer quickly : Not sure, felt genuine to me, not much of a "muhaha I am making them waste their precious time on me recollecting memories muhaha". That's about it, really There is nothing to explain about PoD, I don't think I'm basing this feeling on anything remotely solid, call it a weak gut feeling if you will. In other words : there's nothing to explain, I don't know either. I don't often assume someone is wrong when playing mafia (which admittedly has gotten me inaccurately turbo nitro hard tunneling on... some of this forum's least bright members). In fact, off the top of my head I can't recall a single time I've make that assumption. I guess I think assuming people are wrong is... wrong :D Sorry, I missed this. Appreciate your response but don't have a lot to add right now. Do you have a lot of experience playing with MM? How would you describe his play as both alignments and how accurate are you at reasons him typically? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 130] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 03:45 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff *reading him -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 131] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 04:13 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ikarus is the most open and shut town in the game right now, clearly demonstrating a level of depth of thought way beyond what I would expect from a player who is playing his first wolf game. He doesn't act nervous / awkward, avoid solving or have difficulties pushing wolf reads - all extremely common tells in 1st time wolves - and in fact he acts very strongly to the contrary for all of those things. He just seems very genuine and excited to solve and I have no troubles calling him town. MM and Miz I've talked about already and have shaky townreads on both. These are both players I want to discuss more later on once I have a better understanding of their meta but I'm happy with the posting from both right now. PoD is just not posting game-related content rn. If you look at every post they make below: - Hello post - Asks definition of a term - Answers some questions from me that aren't directly game related, notably does not answer the game related question I ask. They self describe as an active player who prefers villager (but is better as mafia). - A few small talk / fluff posts - Setup spec - Leaves The only real game related thing they add is the suggestion of a D2 massclaim if no wolf is flipped and a reminder that PR claims can be wolves. This reads as a wolf trying to blend in and appear active without contributing, making a reasonable number of posts but not actually adding anything solving-related to that. They were one of the few players around when the game first started were dead and despite checking in a few times also did nothing to try to start conversation. Nothing that PoD has posted is bad but I'm leaning towards them being mafia on the basis that they seem to be trying to look active while avoiding any opportunity to solve given (even compared to the players who are focusing moreso on easy to fake mech posts, they're at least contributing something substantial from their perspective in a world where they're town even if the actual solving is lacking). Will type up other reads in detail later. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 132] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 04:19 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff powerofdeath when you come back I'd appreciate if we could chat about some reads of yours? Let me know where your head is please. Up to you if you'd rather do a reads list or just explain a few strong reads but either way I'd like to see some well explained reads from you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 133] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 13th, 2023 04:36 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff You completely forgot the AMAZIIIING Warcraft cohost ? BOOHOO Well, I can't really blame you for it, I think one can count my posts that game on the fingers of the one hand... Hello! Oh wow cannot believe I forgot about you in my post! I am so sorry haha. Won't be making that mistake again. Hope you are well! Hi! I'm guessing you didn't realise but several players here including Mizery play a lot of games on different mafia sites. That's what she'll be referring to, getting wolf multiple times in other games offsite. To explain what I was personally reading into the post, I thought her enthusiasm was pretty town and it wasn't a post that a wolf was as likely to think of to make in a game as a villager but that the post had very likely been something Mizery thought of before being given their role (regardless of their alignment they were probably genuinely frustrated with randing wolf a bunch) so it's unlikely to give anything alignment indicative. I was mostly only asking on that post as it was the only post at the time that was Mizery was a solid town player in my first game (although I would've liked more posts from her), so I believe you when you say she is a reliable town. Anyway I was on call so I had to work for a few hours since my last post. I am back but unfortunately it is now 1am for me so I must go to bed..... I'll continue to read until I fall asleep and perhaps I'll pick up on something to think about! I'll see you all in the morning.. My phone screen is broken where certain keys are on the keyboard so it'll be better for me to type on the computer once I wake up so I'm not incoherent. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 134] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 13th, 2023 04:40 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff And I'm sorry Mizery, I used he/his when referring to you. But now I know. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 135] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 05:44 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff deathworlds could you please link me your most recent games as both alignments? As others have pointed out already, Death's ISO is also devoid of solving right now but some of Death's comments suggest they're very into mech and that this might be a NAI thing for them. Basically every mech thing Death has said has been correct so far and they corrected several other players who were making incorrect points (they responded to several posts I also responded to during my catchup with similar points to me). Not that I think this is AI, I just agree with what they're saying and could definitely believe based on what I've seen that they genuinely enjoy talking about mech as town. I also thought the post where they said they were enjoying themselves was pretty towny lol. Death just seemed really excited to talk about mech instead of peddling it to try to get into the game as a wolf. They're close to null for me rn, definitely a PoE slot but I want to see how they typically play before I come to a full conclusion. They have a couple of redeeming features and comparatively their contributions are much better than PoD's (despite the latter getting much less attention for lack of contribution) but as other people have said the focus solely on mech is wolfy in a vacuum. --------------------- Varcron's posting outside of the claim is also completely devoid of non-mech solving but I think the early claim in of itself is towny (even if I think it's unlikely that a villager has a truly useless role in this setup. I have thoughts on this but I don't want to dive into anything resembling public PR speculation so I'll keep those to myself. If varcron is genuinely a villager with a negative utility night action then they were smart in claiming immediately though). Overall I think this is probably a villager even if I have concerns over the claim. I certainly don't vote here today unless there's 1. Serious concerns with Varcron's posting that make them the only good candidate (unlikely) or 2. There is some sort of massclaim/counterclaim (also unlikely) as it seems foolish to vote out a potential clear here when there are other good options to vote. Varcron assuming you're town please follow any advice given by my or Deathworlds' posts on your specific role but with the added caveat that the wolf team may choose to redirect you via operator is they have one since you outed your role. --------------------- Looking at Deb now. Not a fan of their entrance and the whole "Hi I'm checking in but can't post right now" and "I'm mad at myself for missing SoD" comments (paraphrased) are >rand wolf (these are pretty common wolf tells, can expand on them if asked though). I found it mildly villagery how they initiated solving and posting reads in the thread at a point where half of the game was (and still is) not posting any solving-related content although given that Deb seems like a competent player I'm not putting too much stock into this (the effort is appreciated if you're town though deb). However, I felt that their reads were pretty thin and when I asked for an expansion on some of them the responses I got didn't really demonstrate a depth of thought beyond the surface level and the PoD/MM reads in particular I find extremely iffy. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt since they themselves considered it to be a rushed reads list and I've also had some very janky reads on rushed reads lists of my own as town. Slight scum lean rn. Loldebite mind linking me a few if your recent games as both alignments when you're back? Happy to chat with you as well if you'd like. --------------------- Overall reads right now are looking like: ikarusdk Varcron Marshmallow Marshall* Mizery* Deathworlds (Null) Loldebite powerofdeath (* - Town but pending a higher effort meta analysis) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 136] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 05:48 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Things subject to change though as most people haven't posted a lot of content yet. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 137] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 05:55 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Sorry, I missed this. Appreciate your response but don't have a lot to add right now. Do you have a lot of experience playing with MM? How would you describe his play as both alignments and how accurate are you at reasons him typically? Meh, not really. I wouldn't dare say I have a lot of experience in anything FM related tbh but I've played a fair few games with MM, definitely more than anyone else in here. We also interact a fair amount outside of FM, which is where the feeling of familiarity comes from. I would say that, scum MM is most comfortable in soft powerwolfing position. He doesn't really want to be townleader or be in any kind of spotlight but he does enjoy having a position from which what he says is paid attention to, and from that place he seeds in pro-wolf reasonable doubt (which notably boils down to making excuses from scummy things that scum do). But take this with a grain of salt as, now that I think about it, that seems based off of mostly a single game lol -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 138] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 07:24 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff deathworlds could you please link me your most recent games as both alignments? As others have pointed out already, Death's ISO is also devoid of solving right now but some of Death's comments suggest they're very into mech and that this might be a NAI thing for them. Basically every mech thing Death has said has been correct so far and they corrected several other players who were making incorrect points (they responded to several posts I also responded to during my catchup with similar points to me). Not that I think this is AI, I just agree with what they're saying and could definitely believe based on what I've seen that they genuinely enjoy talking about mech as town. I also thought the post where they said they were enjoying themselves was pretty towny lol. Death just seemed really excited to talk about mech instead of peddling it to try to get into the game as a wolf. They're close to null for me rn, definitely a PoE slot but I want to see how they typically play before I come to a full conclusion. They have a couple of redeeming features and comparatively their contributions are much better than PoD's (despite the latter getting much less attention for lack of contribution) but as other people have said the focus solely on mech is wolfy in a vacuum. --------------------- Varcron's posting outside of the claim is also completely devoid of non-mech solving but I think the early claim in of itself is towny (even if I think it's unlikely that a villager has a truly useless role in this setup. I have thoughts on this but I don't want to dive into anything resembling public PR speculation so I'll keep those to myself. If varcron is genuinely a villager with a negative utility night action then they were smart in claiming immediately though). Overall I think this is probably a villager even if I have concerns over the claim. I certainly don't vote here today unless there's 1. Serious concerns with Varcron's posting that make them the only good candidate (unlikely) or 2. There is some sort of massclaim/counterclaim (also unlikely) as it seems foolish to vote out a potential clear here when there are other good options to vote. Varcron assuming you're town please follow any advice given by my or Deathworlds' posts on your specific role but with the added caveat that the wolf team may choose to redirect you via operator is they have one since you outed your role. --------------------- Looking at Deb now. Not a fan of their entrance and the whole "Hi I'm checking in but can't post right now" and "I'm mad at myself for missing SoD" comments (paraphrased) are >rand wolf (these are pretty common wolf tells, can expand on them if asked though). I found it mildly villagery how they initiated solving and posting reads in the thread at a point where half of the game was (and still is) not posting any solving-related content although given that Deb seems like a competent player I'm not putting too much stock into this (the effort is appreciated if you're town though deb). However, I felt that their reads were pretty thin and when I asked for an expansion on some of them the responses I got didn't really demonstrate a depth of thought beyond the surface level and the PoD/MM reads in particular I find extremely iffy. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt since they themselves considered it to be a rushed reads list and I've also had some very janky reads on rushed reads lists of my own as town. Slight scum lean rn. Loldebite mind linking me a few if your recent games as both alignments when you're back? Happy to chat with you as well if you'd like. --------------------- Overall reads right now are looking like: ikarusdk Varcron Marshmallow Marshall* Mizery* Deathworlds (Null) Loldebite powerofdeath (* - Town but pending a higher effort meta analysis) Lol, you've nicknamed me Deb, too, or have you simply heard it elsewhere (perhaps even in the thread lol) ? Anyway, not so glad to see that I'm still being read as scum-leaning tho :D Here's (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/50199-S-FM-343-Trip-to-the-Library-Gamethread) my latest game to date And here's (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/50355-S-FM-344-(Ladder)-President-II) the one before that And FTR that one (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49251-S-FM-334-(Ladder)-Once-Upon-a-Town-in-the-West-(Small-Town-Mafia)-(13P)) was my first FM ever. I've played most games that took place in between, if you wanna have an extensive look. Oh and sorry - I should've asked first but I was too happy to have the opportunity - are you cool with me spelling your name Vittæ ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 139] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 07:32 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Vittae I dont really see the reason for fosing me beside low amount of posts -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 140] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 07:58 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Meh, not really. I wouldn't dare say I have a lot of experience in anything FM related tbh but I've played a fair few games with MM, definitely more than anyone else in here. We also interact a fair amount outside of FM, which is where the feeling of familiarity comes from. I would say that, scum MM is most comfortable in soft powerwolfing position. He doesn't really want to be townleader or be in any kind of spotlight but he does enjoy having a position from which what he says is paid attention to, and from that place he seeds in pro-wolf reasonable doubt (which notably boils down to making excuses from scummy things that scum do). But take this with a grain of salt as, now that I think about it, that seems based off of mostly a single game lol Ah ok I didn't realise you were a relatively inexperienced player, that recontextualises some of your posts for me. Deb is just because I was trying to shorten your name and calling you lol what too confusing and nothing else really worked better than deb. And yeah Vittæ is totally fine. Thanks for the rest of your responses, I'll look into them shortly. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 141] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 08:08 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Vittae I dont really see the reason for fosing me beside low amount of posts It's not because of the low amount of posts, it's because of the reasonably high amount of posts and you being present in the thread for some time but yet having the lowest quality content-to-post ratio of any player in this game. Deathworlds has at least contributed significantly to mech discussions outside of solving and Varcron has contributed some things to mech + has a claim I believe is villagery. I'm not sure why you as town would want to OMGUS me here when I'm only lightly pressuring you and trying to encourage you to post meaningful content so that I can find you if you're town. This response once again feels like a wolf taking the easy way out and struggling to post any real content. If you are a villager, please respond to my previous request for some of your reads + explanations instead of OMGUSing me with a strawman argument and disappearing again. If you are a villager we do not have enough margin for error this game to eliminate villagers and in the case you are one you are absolutely a designated miselim for the wolves right now and that's something that you should definitely be trying to change. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 142] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 09:00 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Mizery mind linking some of your recent wolf games? The most recent non-turbo ones I have of you are way too old to be relevant (from July last year apparently). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 143] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 13th, 2023 09:14 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I like setup speculation, it's fun. And now is the perfect time to go into setup speculation, use it as a springboard to jump into other subjects when there isn't a whole lot going on. What, you'd rather I do my "deathworlds setup speculation"tm in the middle of day 2 when we're talking about night results? Mmmm, the perfect springboard to jump into other subjects absolutely is RVS, though, and this kind of discussion normally kills RVS without replacing it with highly alignment-indicative events, which is bad. And to answer your question, the answer is actually "yes, that might actually be better" lol. But that wasn't really my main point; my point was that your post looked a little performative. Making a big post to say "anti-town PRs shouldn't act if they're town" and "I think the setup has this composition" holds in like 3 sentences normally, and I believe you have tricked me as scum before by making walls because I generally like walls. I thought his set up speculation was fun to read. I agree, but was it towny? In fact, that's basically what I'm saying: it looks good, but does it actually do anything else? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 144] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 09:21 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff It's not because of the low amount of posts, it's because of the reasonably high amount of posts and you being present in the thread for some time but yet having the lowest quality content-to-post ratio of any player in this game. Deathworlds has at least contributed significantly to mech discussions outside of solving and Varcron has contributed some things to mech + has a claim I believe is villagery. I'm not sure why you as town would want to OMGUS me here when I'm only lightly pressuring you and trying to encourage you to post meaningful content so that I can find you if you're town. This response once again feels like a wolf taking the easy way out and struggling to post any real content. If you are a villager, please respond to my previous request for some of your reads + explanations instead of OMGUSing me with a strawman argument and disappearing again. If you are a villager we do not have enough margin for error this game to eliminate villagers and in the case you are one you are absolutely a designated miselim for the wolves right now and that's something that you should definitely be trying to change. So I'm not allowed to fos you? You will just shove it off as omgus then? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 145] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 09:21 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also is wolf supposed to be term for being Mafia? I assume from a different website meta where wolf is the scum -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 146] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 09:23 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I do appreciate deathworlds putting in a lot of work in figuring out the setup. With that being said, theres a high chance he probably did it before the game started, before he even know his own role, so this have 0 say in his alignment. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 147] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 09:25 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm going to throw out right now that my night action is not town-friendly, and I won't be using it unless it's absolutely mandatory for the town's survival. This is probably my strongest townread. I dont think this is something a mafia will say right out of the gate. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 148] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 13th, 2023 09:26 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I've only skimmed through the rest of what has been said, but first thing that catches my eye since I was talking about walls: Shit. Actually, we DO gain something out of it : it gives us better information about the kind of setup we're playing. Assuming EXACTLY 1 scum fakeclaims citizen (which is the optimal response IMO) : If town has 3 PR : - 4 PR claims, 1 of which is scum : 25% - 4 citizen claims, 1 of which is scum : 25% If town has 2 PRs : - 3 PR claims, 1 of which is scum : 33% - 5 citizen claims, 1 of which is scum : 20% Since even the informed majority does NOT know how many PRs there are, they can't adapt their response to unless they are the very last to claim. Which they might. Ugh. If town has 3 PR : - if BOTH scum fakeclaim citizens : - 3 PR claims, 0% scum - 5 citizen claims, 40% scum - if BOTH scum claim PR (this should NEVER happen as this gives town the most information): - 5 PR claims, 40% scum - 3 citizen claim, 0% scum If town has 2 PR : - if BOTH scum fakeclaim citizens (shouldn't happen either but less terrible that both claiming PR with 3 TPR) : - 2 PR claims, 0% scum - 6 citizen claims : 33% - if BOTH claim PR: - 4 PR claims, 50% scum - 4 citizen claims, 0% scum Which means that the expected results are : If town has 3 PR : EITHER - 4 PR claims, 1 of which is scum : 25% - 4 citizen claims, 1 of which is scum : 25% OR - 3 PR claims, 0% scum - 5 citizen claims, 40% scum If town has 2 PRs : EITHER - 3 PR claims, 1 of which is scum : 33% - 5 citizen claims, 1 of which is scum : 20% OR - 4 PR claims, 50% scum - 4 citizen claims, 0% scum Well this is disapointing. This feels like the "right kind" of mechanical talk: it actually indicates what happens in a rationally conducted game (and tells us that claims should be delayed to avoid giving info to scum so that they can't adjust their fake claims). I am tempted to give Debbie a preliminary townread for this - it's not strong, but I see someone actively trying to figure out what should be done. ikarusdk I am curious to see what you think about this vs Deathworlds' mechanical talk :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 149] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 09:31 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also I'm pretty super rusty, I keep rereading the game and keep forgetting I was supposed to be figuring out if theyre mafia or not. I guess I only got 1 townread and 1 scum lean read. Yeah I do fos Vitae for fosing me. OMGUS is a perfect play for me as of right now. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 150] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 13th, 2023 09:34 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I don't see a reason why Varcron would lie about it [his claim] tbh. I agree - and I believe that for this exact reason, we should try not to give scum too many clues on what his role is. He is towny for his claim (there's little reason for scum to claim this right away), and thus should likely be trusted to reveal info if necessary; until we have flips to solve, sharing info on what he exactly is can't really help us. ... which is why I don't exactly like the post Varcron made in response to that, so I'll just leave it there lol -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 151] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 09:38 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff So I'm not allowed to fos you? You will just shove it off as omgus then? I mean... it was a dictionary definition OMGUS (voting somebody because they scumread you) for a reason that was pretty disingenuous (not only were you ignoring my points but you aren't even the lowest poster by a large margin) and you once again ignored my encouragement to post more engaging / solving content so that I could try to find you if you were town (it's pretty obvious that I was and still am trying very hard to give you lifelines despite my concerns because we can't afford to miselim today and I want to get a better reason on you regardless of your alignment). So yeah it was a pretty bad post lol. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 152] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 09:39 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff MM since you're in the thread now. Your flip in the school of rock mafia game on MafC is pretty scuffed, mind telling me what your alignment was there? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 153] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 09:41 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also is wolf supposed to be term for being Mafia? I assume from a different website meta where wolf is the scum A lot of older school websites play werewolf / night of the werewolf which is basically just flavour swapped mafia yep. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 154] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 09:43 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff This is probably my strongest townread. I dont think this is something a mafia will say right out of the gate. Broadly agree with both of your takes here. Thoughts on everyone we haven't discussed here? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 155] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 09:45 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff OMGUS is a perfect play for me as of right now. How so? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 156] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 09:54 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff How so? because omgus mean oh my god you sucks You voting me mean 2 things. You sucks or Youre mafia. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 157] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 09:56 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Broadly agree with both of your takes here. Thoughts on everyone we haven't discussed here? I would say 90% of the players are null to me. I'm still trying to get my scumradar up and working again -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 158] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 10:04 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff because omgus mean oh my god you sucks You voting me mean 2 things. You sucks or Youre mafia. Not the answer I was expecting but you did at least make me laugh. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 159] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 10:09 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I would say 90% of the players are null to me. I'm still trying to get my scumradar up and working again What about ikarus? He's never been a wolf before so he should be a comparatively easier one for you to look at I'm guessing. Not really a player I need more opinions on rn but if you are genuinely struggling wity things I would recommend going through his ISO first because of the above and then we can talk about it? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 160] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 10:16 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff What about ikarus? He's never been a wolf before so he should be a comparatively easier one for you to look at I'm guessing. Not really a player I need more opinions on rn but if you are genuinely struggling wity things I would recommend going through his ISO first because of the above and then we can talk about it? I mean all I have on Ikar is pretty much a summary of what he did, not exactly a read or anything. 1. He introduced himself, played himself down saying he is still new and excuse him for making mistakes. 2. He went ahead and agree with people like deathworlds on setup analysis. 3. He use meta on people. 4. He made a deep analysis of someone saying "Thank god im not mafia" 5. He talk about mislynches scenarios. (Possible that this is a thought from a mafia's perspective) 6. He make a guess on Varcron role as Citizen. 7. Talk about setups -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 161] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 10:28 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I mean all I have on Ikar is pretty much a summary of what he did, not exactly a read or anything. 1. He introduced himself, played himself down saying he is still new and excuse him for making mistakes. 2. He went ahead and agree with people like deathworlds on setup analysis. 3. He use meta on people. 4. He made a deep analysis of someone saying "Thank god im not mafia" 5. He talk about mislynches scenarios. (Possible that this is a thought from a mafia's perspective) 6. He make a guess on Varcron role as Citizen. 7. Talk about setups Yeah... appreciate the effort but there's not a lot to go over here really. At least most of the US folks will likely be active soon, I'd also appreciate it for my own reads tbh since I feel like I'm trying to blood out of a stone myself atp. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 162] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 10:35 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I mean all I have on Ikar is pretty much a summary of what he did, not exactly a read or anything. 1. He introduced himself, played himself down saying he is still new and excuse him for making mistakes. 2. He went ahead and agree with people like deathworlds on setup analysis. 3. He use meta on people. 4. He made a deep analysis of someone saying "Thank god im not mafia" 5. He talk about mislynches scenarios. (Possible that this is a thought from a mafia's perspective) 6. He make a guess on Varcron role as Citizen. 7. Talk about setups This cracked me up ngl -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 163] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 10:43 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb has your PoD read changed at all now they've posted more content? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 164] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 10:56 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Not knowing them I can't tell if that's just D1 banter or if there's something going on. I gotta say I don't really agree with or understand the decision that he's the best slot to pressure either, especially. Especially considering how you voted them first thing in the morning, then explained why after catching up and then posted a readslist. Would you mind explaining your rationale for the vote ? On the other hand PoD's reaction is quite surprising too, but I get the feel that this is a gambit of sorts or something Oh and btw I just realized that I didn't really comply with your request, since I've posted no link to a game where I played scum, because there hasn't been any yet. Closest I ever got was some kind of neutral killer on crack but I died of crab overload (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49755-S-FM-339-KRC-M-FM-edition?p=959073#post959073). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 165] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 11:00 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb has your PoD read changed at all now they've posted more content? They very clearly have not posted more content, in fact they've made their refusal to comply - for now - quite clear. Interesting ! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 166] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 11:00 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Not knowing them I can't tell if that's just D1 banter or if there's something going on. I gotta say I don't really agree with or understand the decision that he's the best slot to pressure either, especially. Especially considering how you voted them first thing in the morning, then explained why after catching up and then posted a readslist. Would you mind explaining your rationale for the vote ? On the other hand PoD's reaction is quite surprising too, but I get the feel that this is a gambit of sorts or something Oh and btw I just realized that I didn't really comply with your request, since I've posted no link to a game where I played scum, because there hasn't been any yet. Closest I ever got was some kind of neutral killer on crack but I died of crab overload (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49755-S-FM-339-KRC-M-FM-edition?p=959073#post959073). Gambit of what exactly? I responded with exactly how I felt at the time. No wifom or anything, no complex strategies, just simply emotions. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 167] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 11:01 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff They very clearly have not posted more content, in fact they've made their refusal to comply - for now - quite clear. Interesting ! I am posting contents I feel like you're looking down on me for some reasons. Loldebite -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 168] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 11:08 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Gambit of what exactly? I responded with exactly how I felt at the time. No wifom or anything, no complex strategies, just simply emotions. Let's call it the Gambit of the Renegade : refusing to explain and avoid telling anyone what you think. Because that's what I recall renegade (not) doing :D Maybe gambit isn't the proper term ? Yeah well I don't know for you but I have little use of emotions that can be faked as easily as that. Meh, I guess that post about ikarus probably isn't that easy to fake, though. Still, I don't know what do you with it so it doesn't add to my "content" pile. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 169] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 11:08 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I am posting contents I feel like you're looking down on me for some reasons. Loldebite Looking down ? That's... peculiar. Why's that ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 170] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 13th, 2023 11:13 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff MM since you're in the thread now. Your flip in the school of rock mafia game on MafC is pretty scuffed, mind telling me what your alignment was there? I legit have no memory of it; might be able to tell you with a link to it if you really want to know. In my first years, I used to remember every game in detail, but nowadays everything just goes away once the game's over; my brain seems to clear disk space for more useful things, unfortunately (or fortunately!). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 171] Auteur : MartinGG99 Date : March 13th, 2023 11:17 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ISO links have been added to the first post. The difference between them and the "ISO Links" button you can find towards the top of the page is that the ones on the first post sort via most recent post while the ones in the button sort by oldest post. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 172] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 11:34 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Not knowing them I can't tell if that's just D1 banter or if there's something going on. I gotta say I don't really agree with or understand the decision that he's the best slot to pressure either, especially. Especially considering how you voted them first thing in the morning, then explained why after catching up and then posted a readslist. Would you mind explaining your rationale for the vote ? On the other hand PoD's reaction is quite surprising too, but I get the feel that this is a gambit of sorts or something Oh and btw I just realized that I didn't really comply with your request, since I've posted no link to a game where I played scum, because there hasn't been any yet. Closest I ever got was some kind of neutral killer on crack but I died of crab overload (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49755-S-FM-339-KRC-M-FM-edition?p=959073#post959073). If you're referring to the me/PoD interactions then yeah it's funny for everyone lol, no hard feelings. My posting style comes off as pretty serious at times and I'm used to playing in pretty intense situations so sorry if I'm coming off as mad here. To answer your question about my thought process this is the timeline of my catchup this morning: 1. Skim thread for anything major. Didn't look at every post in detail. I skimmed a couple of ISOs as well for people I didn't really remember any posts of. 2. Started posting. Voted PoD because I had opened their ISO and found that despite their activity and me prodding them for content before I left they still had a very empty ISO. To explain my voting philosophy - it's broadly pro town to have your vote placed down on somebody as soon as you can really justify placing a real vote on somebody. I had concerns about PoD and I felt like they were getting away with doing nothing and needed pressure so they felt like the perfect person to vote. Not sure how close this is to the voting meta on this site but low-committment early game pressure votes are very common elsewhere. 3. More thoroughly read through stuff + posting responses in thread. Self explanatory. Read on PoD is basically the same as above. 4. Did a detailed ISO of every player minus MM and Misery and typed them up into my bigger read list posts. My read on PoD was similar to the original reason why I voted them and they remained my top scumread so I didn't recast a vote as I felt they were still the best option. Not all of my reads stayed the same after I started looking into people in more detail which is why there's some slight differences in how I treated certain players (notably varcron) in between my initial catch up posts and later wall. PoD's reaction as a standalone thing would mildly surprise me if they flipped villager, less so if they were a wolf. Read to me as somebody who is struggling to make scumreads (common wolf tell, difficult to find reasons to falsely accuse when you gave TMI) and taking the lazy, easy way out via a bad OMGUS. To be fair to PoD, I do believe them now when they said they're struggling to make reads and my read on them now is more that I think that struggling to make reads like they currently are is more likely an issue caused because of both being rusty and TMI than it is to be an issue of being rusty but no TMI. (That is to say that I think that attempting fake solving after a long break is a fair bit harder than attempting genuine solving after a long break). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 173] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 11:36 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I legit have no memory of it; might be able to tell you with a link to it if you really want to know. In my first years, I used to remember every game in detail, but nowadays everything just goes away once the game's over; my brain seems to clear disk space for more useful things, unfortunately (or fortunately!). https://www.mafiacafe.net/forum/standard-games/games-archive/38952-gray-nite-s-school-of-rock-mafia-game-thread Don't blame you tbh -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 174] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 11:40 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Not knowing them I can't tell if that's just D1 banter or if there's something going on. I gotta say I don't really agree with or understand the decision that he's the best slot to pressure either, especially. Especially considering how you voted them first thing in the morning, then explained why after catching up and then posted a readslist. Would you mind explaining your rationale for the vote ? On the other hand PoD's reaction is quite surprising too, but I get the feel that this is a gambit of sorts or something Oh and btw I just realized that I didn't really comply with your request, since I've posted no link to a game where I played scum, because there hasn't been any yet. Closest I ever got was some kind of neutral killer on crack but I died of crab overload (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49755-S-FM-339-KRC-M-FM-edition?p=959073#post959073). I missed the bottom bit of this post... appreciate you getting back to me on this with the SK game. Now if only you told me this before I had gone off looking for a mafia game of yours. :laugh: But in all seriousness my read on you is completely invalid now as I'd assumed you had a lot more experience as mafia and serial killers aren't really the same due to the lack of TMI. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 175] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 11:44 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If you're referring to the me/PoD interactions then yeah it's funny for everyone lol, no hard feelings. My posting style comes off as pretty serious at times and I'm used to playing in pretty intense situations so sorry if I'm coming off as mad here. To answer your question about my thought process this is the timeline of my catchup this morning: 1. Skim thread for anything major. Didn't look at every post in detail. I skimmed a couple of ISOs as well for people I didn't really remember any posts of. 2. Started posting. Voted PoD because I had opened their ISO and found that despite their activity and me prodding them for content before I left they still had a very empty ISO. To explain my voting philosophy - it's broadly pro town to have your vote placed down on somebody as soon as you can really justify placing a real vote on somebody. I had concerns about PoD and I felt like they were getting away with doing nothing and needed pressure so they felt like the perfect person to vote. Not sure how close this is to the voting meta on this site but low-committment early game pressure votes are very common elsewhere. 3. More thoroughly read through stuff + posting responses in thread. Self explanatory. Read on PoD is basically the same as above. 4. Did a detailed ISO of every player minus MM and Misery and typed them up into my bigger read list posts. My read on PoD was similar to the original reason why I voted them and they remained my top scumread so I didn't recast a vote as I felt they were still the best option. Not all of my reads stayed the same after I started looking into people in more detail which is why there's some slight differences in how I treated certain players (notably varcron) in between my initial catch up posts and later wall. PoD's reaction as a standalone thing would mildly surprise me if they flipped villager, less so if they were a wolf. Read to me as somebody who is struggling to make scumreads (common wolf tell, difficult to find reasons to falsely accuse when you gave TMI) and taking the lazy, easy way out via a bad OMGUS. To be fair to PoD, I do believe them now when they said they're struggling to make reads and my read on them now is more that I think that struggling to make reads like they currently are is more likely an issue caused because of both being rusty and TMI than it is to be an issue of being rusty but no TMI. (That is to say that I think that attempting fake solving after a long break is a fair bit harder than attempting genuine solving after a long break). They haven't said that. Not here, at least. Vittae -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 176] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 13th, 2023 11:49 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff https://www.mafiacafe.net/forum/standard-games/games-archive/38952-gray-nite-s-school-of-rock-mafia-game-thread Don't blame you tbh https://www.mafiacafe.net/forum/standard-games/games-archive/38952-gray-nite-s-school-of-rock-mafia-game-thread/page67#post41650 I was scum, apparently. But I was supposed to partake in the neat version of the Cranberries' song, so that makes up for it xD. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 177] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 11:51 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I would say 90% of the players are null to me. I'm still trying to get my scumradar up and working again (Apparently I have to post something and can't just quote the post so here is some text) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 178] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 11:55 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff (Apparently I have to post something and can't just quote the post so here is some text) This was a response to Deb saying PoD never claimed to be struggling with making reads ftr. I think it's pretty clear here that PoD isn't refusing to make reads and would post some more at my request if they could regardless of alignment. I think in hindsight that regardless of alignment it's easy to infer from PoD's posting that they're struggling to produce solving content (not wilfully avoiding it necessarily) again regardless of their alignment. Not sure why you think I'd lie about this anyway deb? It wouldn't be of any benefit to me to do so as a wolf. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 179] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 13th, 2023 11:57 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I am posting contents I feel like you're looking down on me for some reasons. Loldebite Does this indicate he's scum, though? Also, I'm looking at your ISO and cannot say I am exactly impressed - not that I have to be impressed by the first half of D1, but this reaction is quite heavy considering your content level so far. Is there something you see that would indicate people accusing you are scum (as opposed to just people saying things you don't like)? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 180] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 11:57 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff https://www.mafiacafe.net/forum/standard-games/games-archive/38952-gray-nite-s-school-of-rock-mafia-game-thread/page67#post41650 I was scum, apparently. But I was supposed to partake in the neat version of the Cranberries' song, so that makes up for it xD. Ok great thank you. I couldn't get the flip to show for me on mobile (it's working now). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 181] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 13th, 2023 12:01 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff And I'm sorry Mizery, I used he/his when referring to you. But now I know. you know nothing -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 182] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 13th, 2023 12:07 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff They haven't said that. Not here, at least. Vittae Saw the post in POD's ISO, so it wasn't a false statement (see Vittae's reply), but if it had been, what would you see scummy about it? Vittae strikes me as a very, very analytical player, and I don't think they would need to take the risk of making up something this early into the game. ~~ As for Vittae's argument itself, I think it fits with what I perceive (extra defensiveness due to feeling uncomfortable as scum), so I quite like the reasoning. That being said, I'd still like to hear his version before straight up tunneling him, considering it could also stem from a NAI lack of confidence after not having played for years. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 183] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 13th, 2023 12:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff MM since you're in the thread now. Your flip in the school of rock mafia game on MafC is pretty scuffed, mind telling me what your alignment was there? that wasn't the game where we n1'd mm, lightcastle subbed out, and then MM awkwardly replaced him, is it... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 184] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 13th, 2023 12:13 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff that wasn't the game where we n1'd mm, lightcastle subbed out, and then MM awkwardly replaced him, is it... wait i thought i got sparkles killed there wtf which game is that one -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 185] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 13th, 2023 12:14 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Vittae do you really think you need scumgames of mine -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 186] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 13th, 2023 12:15 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Kinda rude for no one to read my posts, ngl -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 187] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 13th, 2023 12:18 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I didn't think I'd have to correct people so often on me but Vittae it is, again, not having to do with wolfrands on other mafia sites, but having to do with mafia/town ratio on this site read my posts guys its not that hard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 188] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 13th, 2023 12:18 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Mizery ikarusdk Vittae Marshmallow Marshall Deathworlds Varcron powerofdeath Loldebite loldebite -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 189] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 12:22 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff that wasn't the game where we n1'd mm, lightcastle subbed out, and then MM awkwardly replaced him, is it... I'm glad you reminded me of this because I was shocked I'd managed to misread MM so badly based on his D1 but yeah he was actually a villager D1 (was using the game as a test for my ability to read MM based on meta). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 190] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 13th, 2023 12:23 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm glad you reminded me of this because I was shocked I'd managed to misread MM so badly based on his D1 but yeah he was actually a villager D1 (was using the game as a test for my ability to read MM based on meta). it was the most annoying game i've ever played and I count it as a wolf win -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 191] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 13th, 2023 12:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff deathworlds could you please link me your most recent games as both alignments? As others have pointed out already, Death's ISO is also devoid of solving right now but some of Death's comments suggest they're very into mech and that this might be a NAI thing for them. Basically every mech thing Death has said has been correct so far and they corrected several other players who were making incorrect points (they responded to several posts I also responded to during my catchup with similar points to me). Not that I think this is AI, I just agree with what they're saying and could definitely believe based on what I've seen that they genuinely enjoy talking about mech as town. I also thought the post where they said they were enjoying themselves was pretty towny lol. Death just seemed really excited to talk about mech instead of peddling it to try to get into the game as a wolf. They're close to null for me rn, definitely a PoE slot but I want to see how they typically play before I come to a full conclusion. They have a couple of redeeming features and comparatively their contributions are much better than PoD's (despite the latter getting much less attention for lack of contribution) but as other people have said the focus solely on mech is wolfy in a vacuum. yeah sure gimmie a sec. Town game (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/50446-S-FM-345-Hypixel-SC2Mafia-Cross-Community-Game), a town game where I didn't get lynched d1 (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49637-S-FM-338-Deck-Mafia-008) Neutral game (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49755-S-FM-339-KRC-M-FM-edition), scum game (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/47750-S-FM-316-The-Fooling-Party), another scum game (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/47427-S-FM-307-KRC-AGAIN!) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 192] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 12:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff it was the most annoying game i've ever played and I count it as a wolf win Yeah I erroneously thought that MM endgamed so I ended up reading some of the final part of the game looking for his flip and it was hilarious. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 193] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 13th, 2023 12:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff it took a long time to figure out what alignment I was for some of these games -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 194] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 12:28 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Mizery ikarusdk Vittae Marshmallow Marshall Deathworlds Varcron powerofdeath Loldebite loldebite I assume that both loldebite and I are your two top suspects? Can I ask if you think we are bussing each others? This early in? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 195] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 12:29 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Or do you think that only 1 scum is between one of us, and that votes should be between us two here. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 196] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 12:31 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Vittae do you really think you need scumgames of mine Your town game has significantly improved since last time we played and I haven't really seen your wolf play in action since then. I feel like if your town play is consistently like you're playing rn and in the recent town games of yours I specced and your wolf play is like how it was last time we played then it would be a pretty jarring gap so I'm expecting it's changed quite a bit yeah. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 197] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 12:32 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Does this indicate he's scum, though? Also, I'm looking at your ISO and cannot say I am exactly impressed - not that I have to be impressed by the first half of D1, but this reaction is quite heavy considering your content level so far. Is there something you see that would indicate people accusing you are scum (as opposed to just people saying things you don't like)? I mean I generally vote people to get a better read on them. I voted Vittae and I sorta like his reaction toward my vote, hence why I switch my vote to Lold. They went ahead and voted Vittae after I switched vote. One thing I noticed is that they definitely avoided trying to omgus me. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 198] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 13th, 2023 12:33 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff back to rereading thread after going on the wild goose chase that is finding my previous games -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 199] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 12:34 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff They haven't said that. Not here, at least. Vittae I don't know if this is an attempt on trying to pocket me to get me off of voting them. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 200] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 12:37 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Let's call it the Gambit of the Renegade : refusing to explain and avoid telling anyone what you think. Because that's what I recall renegade (not) doing :D Maybe gambit isn't the proper term ? Yeah well I don't know for you but I have little use of emotions that can be faked as easily as that. Meh, I guess that post about ikarus probably isn't that easy to fake, though. Still, I don't know what do you with it so it doesn't add to my "content" pile. Exactly what is considered "content" for you? I feel like there are a lot of contents so far. Do you consider extremely long posts someone being super analytic considered "content" while short posts like these aren't? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 201] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 13th, 2023 12:40 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff yeah sure gimmie a sec. Town game (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/50446-S-FM-345-Hypixel-SC2Mafia-Cross-Community-Game), a town game where I didn't get lynched d1 (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49637-S-FM-338-Deck-Mafia-008) Neutral game (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49755-S-FM-339-KRC-M-FM-edition), scum game (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/47750-S-FM-316-The-Fooling-Party), another scum game (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/47427-S-FM-307-KRC-AGAIN!) Appreciated, thank you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 202] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 13th, 2023 12:49 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Or do you think that only 1 scum is between one of us, and that votes should be between us two here. more likely one scum in you and one in varcron/death -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 203] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 13th, 2023 01:17 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Appreciated, thank you. https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/50355-S-FM-344-(Ladder)-President-II (james madison) https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49899-S-FM-340-Election-Day-2-0 https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/37434 (twicevitational) https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/36802 (candyland) you should have seen the sorc game and i don't have any other games besides these that are any newer, which is why I don't think they'll be useful to you because I could have sworn you at least claimed to go through some of them. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 204] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 01:38 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/36918-S-FM-200-Mafia-Wars-II?p=611844&viewfull=1#post611844 My most recent game I finished in 2016. Funnily enough its probably why I quit the site in the first place. I think I was scum here. https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/36787-S-FM-198-Stay-Classy?p=604019&viewfull=1#post604019 The game before that, I was town. (those 2 games are from 2016, so I was gone longer than I thought, almost 7 years) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 205] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 13th, 2023 01:57 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/36918-S-FM-200-Mafia-Wars-II?p=611844&viewfull=1#post611844 My most recent game I finished in 2016. Funnily enough its probably why I quit the site in the first place. I think I was scum here. https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/36787-S-FM-198-Stay-Classy?p=604019&viewfull=1#post604019 The game before that, I was town. (those 2 games are from 2016, so I was gone longer than I thought, almost 7 years) Don't say 2016 is 7 years ago it hurts too much -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 206] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 13th, 2023 02:12 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'd say "I'll explain more later" but I really won't, I think those two posts from deathworlds aren't towny, but more specifically probably because I already find him near the bottom of my PoE. Those two specific posts are easy posts a wolf can use to get towncred (example A: this post of yours) and also feign usefulness in thread without giving reads or actually interacting in more meaningful ways. his post being excited about getting back is the towniest thing from his posting so far. okay yeah you know what, takes me a bit to get up and start actually reading the game, I don't do meta reads, so it takes me a while to build up enough evidence/gut for my reads. I was rereading the setup and saw that hidden PR can be a citizen, which sucks because if we have 1 mafia pretending to be a PR, and we only have 2 town PR, then there is no counter claims. Since most PRs can be either alignments, it boil down to your basic scumhunting. Oh a person claim detective? A doc? Well he can be mafia detective or doc too! I strongly believe that a massclaim should be in order on Day 2 if no mafia died. Mass claim on d2 is probably the only way we win this game if we mislynch here. First impressions Mizery ikarusdk Vittae Marshmallow Marshall Loldebite powerofdeath Deathworlds Varcron yo letsgo, the first readslist of the game, not exactly thrilled to be near the bottom of your list. Vittae had a good opening that didn't involve a lot of mech discussion, something that is less likely for wolves to do in a semi-closed setup where talking about mech is 10% distraction, 20% fluff 15% wolves not wanting useful things to discuss, 50% helpful and 50% lame but 100% a possibility from both sides of the game I get why people hate on mech discussion, but that won't ever stop me from talking about it, also, I in general, agree with your position on Vittae here, strong opening, asking questions, generally pro-town. Ikarus in general is very pure and i wouldn't touch, especially one of his posts which was uberpure and towny of him. Ikarus is a town read for me as well, for much of the same reasons, none of that "haha im totally not nervous to play some mafia right now" vibes you get from newer scum. Don't have a read on MM so far but Vittae has him as a gth townread rn it seems based on entry so I'll go with it because I can have a hard time seeing people who meme on entry and whatnot as Woflier than i probably should most of the time. Ehhh memeing on entry isn't pro-town that's for sure, but personally, I wouldn't go so hard as to say it is damning either, closer to NAI than it is to a scum read imo. Based on their interactions the two wolves are likely not varcron/deathworlds and varcon's carelessness about how he is percieved in rambling about another game is slightly towny but not wanting to discuss it further if it's truly a good memory he wants to revisit makes it an option that he's trying to not get suspicion from being too far off topic I consider the whole thing as NAI, might be reading into it too much. I'm not going to go into deathworlds much because my main suspicions come from his lack of content so far beyond mech discussion, and trying to boost varcron as a PR by saying the "i know what you're doing right now" as if other people aren't and wouldn't notice the callback, implying he wanted to make a point in thread to reference in the future when people ask him why he's not a wolf. He was also in thread when Ikarus posted the townread on him and despite interacting with other posts he ignores that one. Hey now, there's a good shot that varcron is cit, or scum really. If you think about it, useless town pr claim is a good claim for all allignments. scum could be like: "oh hey, I'm a town power role! one of the few limited roles available, now a real town power will be forced to counterclaim in the event of mass claim and we can 1v1 in a one mislynched allowed setup, also, lookout/scout can suck it!" citizen could be like: "Oh hey, I'm a town power role! Night kill me instead of a real town power role. a powerful town power role could be like: "Hey, I'm a weak town power role, don't hit me scum!" a useless tpr could be like: "Hey, I'm a useless tpr! (I am making this claim for WIFOM reasons Kappa ) Power is solidly null with no content leaning wolfy from post in thread being disengaged and really only interacting with deathworlds about how long their break was which could imply more likely not w with death but easily fakeable and easy to turn my read around here if i feel the need. I too am hoping for more content from pod. Great time to note that lynching is NOT mandatory, I assume this is achieved by voting "skip" ? yup. Which brings me to my point : should we make citizens claim to clear out PoE ? I know, I know, it is lame and cringe... So, should we be doing it ? scum makes up 1/4th of the entire population, if we can increase odds of a random lynch hitting scum by a significant enough margin (right now it's 20%), then i'd say it would be worth it. On another note, since you (Vittæ) and I seem to be the only ones online and active now that mizery's gone, feel free to engage me about whatever. To help jumpstart that, here's a rushed fresh out of bed readslist : cute people (T leaning) Ikarusdk (seems genuinely eager to engage in actual discussion to me or much better at pretending than I'd expect, and also cute posts) Varcron (Pretty good feeling about the interaction with deathworlds, above vittae for now because I know them a very tiny bit better) Vittae (Good feeling about the slot, I sense cute vibes. Yeah that might be irrational, sue me) boringly ordinary (odds are that idk how to read these but I'll pretend for now) PoD (Not much to think about but I get the tiniest of cute vibes and ) deathworlds (I agree that the mech is NAI, and nothing felt especially good or especially bad) mizery (I don't believe in judging off openings anyway, reads list is nice but honestly I'm pretty sure she would've done as much as any alignment) uglies (S leaning) MM (I very much dislike their last post to date. Sorting roles in utility buckets alone is worth doing, had I done that in my first game ever I would've seen you were scum much faster :) loldebite, could you clarify what exactly you didn't like about MM's last post? Yes. Actually, do scum have a day chat too ? If they do the idea crumbles, probably. I assume scum would have to have at least one of theirs fakeclaim citizen, if they do play it accurately we don't gain much except an extra WIFOM layer as a freebie. Regardless, we might gain something and as such it's worth discussing. If you're afraid about town power roles getting outted & gutted, I wouldn't be. Citizens have the majority over scum, so we don't actually need any PR to win, provided we're good enough. That is assuming no extra NKP. This is poor logic, citizens outnumber scum in almost every game, that doesn't mean we should let our power roles die every single game. Shit. Actually, we DO gain something out of it : it gives us better information about the kind of setup we're playing. Assuming EXACTLY 1 scum fakeclaims citizen (which is the optimal response IMO) : If town has 3 PR : - 4 PR claims, 1 of which is scum : 25% - 4 citizen claims, 1 of which is scum : 25% If town has 2 PRs : - 3 PR claims, 1 of which is scum : 33% - 5 citizen claims, 1 of which is scum : 20% Since even the informed majority does NOT know how many PRs there are, they can't adapt their response to unless they are the very last to claim. Which they might. Ugh. If town has 3 PR : - if BOTH scum fakeclaim citizens : - 3 PR claims, 0% scum - 5 citizen claims, 40% scum - if BOTH scum claim PR (this should NEVER happen as this gives town the most information): - 5 PR claims, 40% scum - 3 citizen claim, 0% scum If town has 2 PR : - if BOTH scum fakeclaim citizens (shouldn't happen either but less terrible that both claiming PR with 3 TPR) : - 2 PR claims, 0% scum - 6 citizen claims : 33% - if BOTH claim PR: - 4 PR claims, 50% scum - 4 citizen claims, 0% scum Which means that the expected results are : If town has 3 PR : EITHER - 4 PR claims, 1 of which is scum : 25% - 4 citizen claims, 1 of which is scum : 25% OR - 3 PR claims, 0% scum - 5 citizen claims, 40% scum If town has 2 PRs : EITHER - 3 PR claims, 1 of which is scum : 33% - 5 citizen claims, 1 of which is scum : 20% OR - 4 PR claims, 50% scum - 4 citizen claims, 0% scum Well this is disapointing. it is quite disappointing indeed, an increase of 20% up to like 33% (if I understood correctly based off of scum not both claiming tpr) is not particularly significant, nor an increase of odds I would like to out all the mechanical leverage we hold at night. Ikarus is the most open and shut town in the game right now, clearly demonstrating a level of depth of thought way beyond what I would expect from a player who is playing his first wolf game. He doesn't act nervous / awkward, avoid solving or have difficulties pushing wolf reads - all extremely common tells in 1st time wolves - and in fact he acts very strongly to the contrary for all of those things. He just seems very genuine and excited to solve and I have no troubles calling him town. agreed. MM and Miz I've talked about already and have shaky townreads on both. These are both players I want to discuss more later on once I have a better understanding of their meta but I'm happy with the posting from both right now. mm seems to be quite contentious for people, appearing at the bottom of some peoples scum lists so far, and in the town lean areas as well. PoD is just not posting game-related content rn. If you look at every post they make below: - Hello post - Asks definition of a term - Answers some questions from me that aren't directly game related, notably does [I]not answer the game related question I ask. They self describe as an active player who prefers villager (but is better as mafia). - A few small talk / fluff posts - Setup spec - Leaves The only real game related thing they add is the suggestion of a D2 massclaim if no wolf is flipped and a reminder that PR claims can be wolves. This reads as a wolf trying to blend in and appear active without contributing, making a reasonable number of posts but not actually adding anything solving-related to that. They were one of the few players around when the game first started were dead and despite checking in a few times also did nothing to try to start conversation. Nothing that PoD has posted is bad but I'm leaning towards them being mafia on the basis that they seem to be trying to look active while avoiding any opportunity to solve given (even compared to the players who are focusing moreso on easy to fake mech posts, they're at least contributing something substantial from their perspective in a world where they're town even if the actual solving is lacking). Will type up other reads in detail later. You scum leaning pod right now makes me sad, mans just a bit rusty yeah? I'd hope he didn't roll scum because I'd like to play with him more. As others have pointed out already, Death's ISO is also devoid of solving right now but some of Death's comments suggest they're very into mech and that this might be a NAI thing for them. Basically every mech thing Death has said has been correct so far and they corrected several other players who were making incorrect points (they responded to several posts I also responded to during my catchup with similar points to me). Not that I think this is AI, I just agree with what they're saying and could definitely believe based on what I've seen that they genuinely enjoy talking about mech as town. I also thought the post where they said they were enjoying themselves was pretty towny lol. Death just seemed really excited to talk about mech instead of peddling it to try to get into the game as a wolf. They're close to null for me rn, definitely a PoE slot but I want to see how they typically play before I come to a full conclusion. They have a couple of redeeming features and comparatively their contributions are much better than PoD's (despite the latter getting much less attention for lack of contribution) but as other people have said the focus solely on mech is wolfy in a vacuum. You have all these town brownie points for me, but put me in the null slot? --------------------- Varcron's posting outside of the claim is also completely devoid of non-mech solving but I think the early claim in of itself is towny (even if I think it's unlikely that a villager has a truly useless role in this setup. I have thoughts on this but I don't want to dive into anything resembling public PR speculation so I'll keep those to myself. If varcron is genuinely a villager with a negative utility night action then they were smart in claiming immediately though). I think varcron's claim is smart regardless of alignment, and therefor is NAI. --------------------- Looking at Deb now. Not a fan of their entrance and the whole "Hi I'm checking in but can't post right now" and "I'm mad at myself for missing SoD" comments (paraphrased) are >rand wolf (these are pretty common wolf tells, can expand on them if asked though). I think I understand what you're getting at right now, kinda lurky comments, being non-comitial in day chat. I found it mildly villagery how they initiated solving and posting reads in the thread at a point where half of the game was (and still is) not posting any solving-related content although given that Deb seems like a competent player I'm not putting too much stock into this (the effort is appreciated if you're town though deb). However, I felt that their reads were pretty thin and when I asked for an expansion on some of them the responses I got didn't really demonstrate a depth of thought beyond the surface level and the PoD/MM reads in particular I find extremely iffy. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt since they themselves considered it to be a rushed reads list and I've also had some very janky reads on rushed reads lists of my own as town. Reminder, we are in the first 12ish hours of the game, some people need a bit of time to get the ball rolling, I in particular like to think I have a much stronger D2 than a D1. --------------------- Overall reads right now are looking like: ikarusdk Varcron Marshmallow Marshall* Mizery* Deathworlds (Null) Loldebite powerofdeath (* - Town but pending a higher effort meta analysis) Overall I like this list, I'm not so sure about putting pod in the very bottom and leaving me as a null at this stage of the game seems like a reasonable thing that you would do since you are not familiar with my d1 play. Mmmm, the perfect springboard to jump into other subjects absolutely is RVS, though, and this kind of discussion normally kills RVS without replacing it with highly alignment-indicative events, which is bad. I really don't get the hype around RVS, is it meant to try and catch scum via vote count analysis? wouldn't that be better done when there are actual wagons being formed? And to answer your question, the answer is actually "yes, that might actually be better" lol. But that wasn't really my main point; my point was that your post looked a little performative. Making a big post to say "anti-town PRs shouldn't act if they're town" and "I think the setup has this composition" holds in like 3 sentences normally, and I believe you have tricked me as scum before by making walls because I generally like walls. Performative forsmorative, pro town behavior is pro town, and me tricking you into liking you as scum just because you happen to like walls is a skill issue, effort-posting is not alignment indicative. I agree, but was it towny? In fact, that's basically what I'm saying: it looks good, but does it actually do anything else? Regardless of alignment it is everyone's jobs to try to at least appear town, so they aren't being focused on being the days elimination, not alignment indicative. Also is wolf supposed to be term for being Mafia? I assume from a different website meta where wolf is the scum yup, wolf = scum = mafia = bad guys I do appreciate deathworlds putting in a lot of work in figuring out the setup. With that being said, theres a high chance he probably did it before the game started, before he even know his own role, so this have 0 say in his alignment. Actually I made it after the game started, which is a rarity for me but I originally had plans around SoD so I didn't have time to setup a big setup analysis wall like I tend to do. I've only skimmed through the rest of what has been said, but first thing that catches my eye since I was talking about walls: This feels like the "right kind" of mechanical talk: it actually indicates what happens in a rationally conducted game (and tells us that claims should be delayed to avoid giving info to scum so that they can't adjust their fake claims). I am tempted to give Debbie a preliminary townread for this - it's not strong, but I see someone actively trying to figure out what should be done. ikarusdk I am curious to see what you think about this vs Deathworlds' mechanical talk :) +1, I think objectively, debbie's mechanical talk is more pro-town than mine, solving the game =/= solving the setup. I would say 90% of the players are null to me. I'm still trying to get my scumradar up and working again I will defend you on this point today, but no longer than that, hope to see some scum hunting from you soon. Oh and btw I just realized that I didn't really comply with your request, since I've posted no link to a game where I played scum, because there hasn't been any yet. Closest I ever got was some kind of neutral killer on crack but I died of crab overload (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49755-S-FM-339-KRC-M-FM-edition?p=959073#post959073). I'm still malding about the fact that my role-card that I created for that game didn't even get a chance to do anything. They haven't said that. Not here, at least. Vittae Ehhhhhhhhh this seems like a stretch to me, especially considering what vittae pointed out just below. (Apparently I have to post something and can't just quote the post so here is some text) This was a response to Deb saying PoD never claimed to be struggling with making reads ftr. I think it's pretty clear here that PoD isn't refusing to make reads and would post some more at my request if they could regardless of alignment. I think in hindsight that regardless of alignment it's easy to infer from PoD's posting that they're struggling to produce solving content (not wilfully avoiding it necessarily) again regardless of their alignment. Not sure why you think I'd lie about this anyway deb? It wouldn't be of any benefit to me to do so as a wolf. Vittae isn't the lynch today, saying that now. Kinda rude for no one to read my posts, ngl make better content then Kappa Mizery ikarusdk Vittae Marshmallow Marshall Deathworlds Varcron powerofdeath Loldebite loldebite and with that we have another reads list and a vote for loldebite. With everything in mind here is everyone's reads list as I saw them. Mizery's: Mizery ikarusdk Vittae Marshmallow Marshall Loldebite powerofdeath Deathworlds Varcron loldebite's: Ikarusdk Varcron Vittae PoD deathworlds mizery MM Vittae's: ikarusdk Varcron Marshmallow Marshall* Mizery* Deathworlds (Null) Loldebite powerofdeath Mizery's 2nd list Mizery ikarusdk Vittae Marshmallow Marshall Deathworlds Varcron powerofdeath Loldebite Here's my list: Deathworlds Ikarusdk Vittae Varcron PowerofDeath MM Mizery Loldebite Breakdown: Deathworlds: I am town. Ikarusdk: This mans gives me ceko first game town vibes, and I could read ceko pretty well back in the day, this is my strongest town read. Vittae: Vittae is asking all the right questions, getting meta reads, prompting people, breaking down interactions, this is pro-town behavior. Varcron: This revolves mostly around the claim he made, which while I think can be made by anyone of any alignment, I can see it more often than not, coming from a town perspective, especially as the first claim made. There is a shot we're being bamboozled so hard by an unprompted claim from scum, but I don't think that is the case here. PoD: Mans hasn't made a lot of content yet, but I suspect mans is just rusty, and is trying to get the gears to turn again, I suspect town, but intentional lurking is always a possibility. MM: MM has always been an enigma to me, and any attempts to read MM feel off, and I feel like he wraps all of his content in multiple layers of WIFOM that go over my head. I'll get a better feel for MM throughout the day, but this read I have the least confidence in. Mizery: This is a scum lean pending a couple answered that I might have missed, 1.) Varcron and I are were at the bottom of your list near the start, but pod and loldebite flew right by us to be the new bottom, what makes you think pod and loldebite are more likely to be scum? 2.) What caused MM to go into your town reads? Also in general it doesn't feel like your engaging too much with other players, responding such, you pumped out a couple of read lists but there's hardly any engagement from you to other players regarding game-related subjects. Loldebite: their vote on vittae is goofy, and while publicly doing the math for a hypothetical d1 claim is "pro-town" if it doesn't help us or actually provide a plan then it's a nothingburger. Outside of that setup speculation, what else has been done from loldebite? -sorry guys I missed SOD -talk about old games -ask about skips -talk about how mafia don't get cits -provide a read list with a lot of talk about "feeling" -suggest that tpr are expendable in a hypothetical d1 claim world -provide some responses to your reads list -do math -talk about math more -talk about MM's meta (also wtf I totally see MM as a powerwolfer) -provide games for meta reading -say something was funny -wow an actual post talking about interactions between different players, crazy!!! -poke at PoD's inactivity -say ika might be faking their obv genuine reactions -get confused by a vote from pod -jump out at a very choice misread of vittae's post. I'm not really buying that loldebite is town right now. loldebite -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 207] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 02:36 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Don't say 2016 is 7 years ago it hurts too much bruh like I graduated in 2015, thinking that I graduated HS 8 years ago is insane. I'm almost 2 years away from 10 years HS anniversary. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 208] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 02:37 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff PoD: Mans hasn't made a lot of content yet, but I suspect mans is just rusty, and is trying to get the gears to turn again, I suspect town, but intentional lurking is always a possibility. If you think I'm lurking, its definitely not intentional. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 209] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 13th, 2023 03:14 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Good morning/afternoon/evening. I agree, but was it towny? In fact, that's basically what I'm saying: it looks good, but does it actually do anything else? Deathworlds set up speculation was a speculation, and did not attempt to solve the game. Towny? I don't think so. It was just fun to read. I guess I should've just left that out from my reason why I town read him. I've only skimmed through the rest of what has been said, but first thing that catches my eye since I was talking about walls: This feels like the "right kind" of mechanical talk: it actually indicates what happens in a rationally conducted game (and tells us that claims should be delayed to avoid giving info to scum so that they can't adjust their fake claims). I am tempted to give Debbie a preliminary townread for this - it's not strong, but I see someone actively trying to figure out what should be done. ikarusdk I am curious to see what you think about this vs Deathworlds' mechanical talk :) Shit. Actually, we DO gain something out of it : it gives us better information about the kind of setup we're playing. Assuming EXACTLY 1 scum fakeclaims citizen (which is the optimal response IMO) : . I agree that Loldebites post was an actual breakdown of the game set up. Two things I do not like loldebites mechanical break down post, and I think this is quite significant. When I read this post at first I had a feeling it was pre-written. But it is presented to us as a new thought. Now, with that in mind I had a re-read of the post this morning and I'm surprised to see that it was written in 4 minutes. Perhaps it is possible. Perhaps loldebites is used to the layout of the breakdowns in most games. But because something is possible, does that mean that is how it actually happened? *inserts speculation - Perhaps it was pre written in mafia chat to present it as a mechanical breakdown of the set up to appear helpful as a town, especially because we've been talking about how deathworlds breakdown is NAI (i still don't really know what this means but I think I do) and I townread him for it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 210] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 13th, 2023 03:18 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Anyways I heard we 2wre gonna bucket? Hardclaim civ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 211] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 03:31 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Saw the post in POD's ISO, so it wasn't a false statement (see Vittae's reply), but if it had been, what would you see scummy about it? Vittae strikes me as a very, very analytical player, and I don't think they would need to take the risk of making up something this early into the game. ~~ As for Vittae's argument itself, I think it fits with what I perceive (extra defensiveness due to feeling uncomfortable as scum), so I quite like the reasoning. That being said, I'd still like to hear his version before straight up tunneling him, considering it could also stem from a NAI lack of confidence after not having played for years. Lying is always scummy. I SOMEHOW missed that sentence, fuck me must I look idiotic. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 212] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 03:32 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I didn't really buy it either but figured it'd be a prompt for interesting discussions - a kind of gambit I guess ? :D unvote -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 213] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 03:36 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Exactly what is considered "content" for you? I feel like there are a lot of contents so far. Do you consider extremely long posts someone being super analytic considered "content" while short posts like these aren't? All the following is : I don't know if this is an attempt on trying to pocket me to get me off of voting them. I mean I generally vote people to get a better read on them. I voted Vittae and I sorta like his reaction toward my vote, hence why I switch my vote to Lold. They went ahead and voted Vittae after I switched vote. One thing I noticed is that they definitely avoided trying to omgus me. Or do you think that only 1 scum is between one of us, and that votes should be between us two here. I assume that both loldebite and I are your two top suspects? Can I ask if you think we are bussing each others? This early in? And this is not even cherry picking your posts, it's just that all the interesting posts at the end of p4 are yours -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 214] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 13th, 2023 03:40 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Vittae Does come off as very analytical. Nothing he said alarmed me or anything, feels genuine in his questions and analysis. Asks the right questions as someone already pointed out and has thoughts that aligns with mine. Strongest town in my book Varcron I am just going by my own limited experience here. First unprompted town PR claim - is town. Perhaps to WIFOM or double WIFOM or even triple WIFOM. Towny. But I'd really like to wait for Varcron to start his day. Deathworlds I still feel deathworlds is towny. Emphasis has been made about his initial mechanical breakdown, but that was just a speculation and the reason to put him in scumlist for his post having no actual game solving content means little to me. If anything, deathworlds certain instructions, while can be made as scum to gain towncred, are still valid. Mizery Her irritation of other people not reading her post made me giggle. Felt genuine. Having said that, nothing of her posts screamed out anything bad. I don't agree with some of her early reads, but we are still early in D1 so that's fine. PoD Well people are grilling PoD for not coming up with genuine game related content! True, but PoD has been away for 7 years and because I don't know how he used to play i am willing to give him a benefit of the doubt. People do need time to get back into things you know? Although I do need to say too many of PoD's post were AtE, which I don't like, and if my first game taught me anything, you gotta be careful about that. MM It turns out I do not like MM's posts. One reason is I disagree how you boost Loldebites breakdown when I had my doubts, and I still have my doubts as I explained in my previous post. The another one is this one. Does this indicate he's scum, though? Also, I'm looking at your ISO and cannot say I am exactly impressed - not that I have to be impressed by the first half of D1, but this reaction is quite heavy considering your content level so far. Is there something you see that would indicate people accusing you are scum (as opposed to just people saying things you don't like)? Again, it is because I already have Loldebites at the bottom of my list. Loldebite Please refer to my previous post. This is a read straight outta bed, and my reads can be as fleeting as a naked man running away from a husband of a married woman he slept with. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 215] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 13th, 2023 03:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'll go into more in depth analysis of my own once I properly wake up and can think more clearly. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 216] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 03:53 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If you think I'm lurking, its definitely not intentional. Yeah, fuck activity reading. On that note : yes, I might appear online about 13h per days or more. I (almost) always have a couple tabs open with the game, that I check from time to time. I'm not actually all that active. Only reason I'm mentioning it is because it has been raised already and well, yeah, I probably should tell you about it while I can, just to clarify. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 217] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 03:57 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Good morning/afternoon/evening. Deathworlds set up speculation was a speculation, and did not attempt to solve the game. Towny? I don't think so. It was just fun to read. I guess I should've just left that out from my reason why I town read him. I agree that Loldebites post was an actual breakdown of the game set up. Two things I do not like loldebites mechanical break down post, and I think this is quite significant. When I read this post at first I had a feeling it was pre-written. But it is presented to us as a new thought. Now, with that in mind I had a re-read of the post this morning and I'm surprised to see that it was written in 4 minutes. Perhaps it is possible. Perhaps loldebites is used to the layout of the breakdowns in most games. But because something is possible, does that mean that is how it actually happened? *inserts speculation - Perhaps it was pre written in mafia chat to present it as a mechanical breakdown of the set up to appear helpful as a town, especially because we've been talking about how deathworlds breakdown is NAI (i still don't really know what this means but I think I do) and I townread him for it. If you think I spare games I signup for any time before it's actually started, you're off the wrong piste. There's a reason I can't come up with roles for KRCs, and it's because I don't do that. Yeah, 4 minutes, unless I was already working on it in that last post ? But I would've said so... mhhh Wrapping up a big post but sparing a bit of time to answer quickly : Not sure, felt genuine to me, not much of a "muhaha I am making them waste their precious time on me recollecting memories muhaha". That's about it, really There is nothing to explain about PoD, I don't think I'm basing this feeling on anything remotely solid, call it a weak gut feeling if you will. In other words : there's nothing to explain, I don't know either. I don't often assume someone is wrong when playing mafia (which admittedly has gotten me inaccurately turbo nitro hard tunneling on... some of this forum's least bright members). In fact, off the top of my head I can't recall a single time I've make that assumption. I guess I think assuming people are wrong is... wrong :D Oh. Oopsie ! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 218] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 04:02 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah, fuck activity reading. On that note : yes, I might appear online about 13h per days or more. I (almost) always have a couple tabs open with the game, that I check from time to time. I'm not actually all that active. Only reason I'm mentioning it is because it has been raised already and well, yeah, I probably should tell you about it while I can, just to clarify. Bad phrasing : it has come up in previous games -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 219] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 04:28 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Anyways I heard we 2wre gonna bucket? Hardclaim civ Wait who said we are all mass claiming? This is the first person to claim -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 220] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 04:34 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also I find it funny people put themselves in top of their townread list. I bet you I did the exact same thing years ago. powerofdeath Varcron Deathworlds Mizery ikarusdk vittae MM loldebite On a side note, I definitely remember having color codes memorized for like 20-30 different colors -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 221] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 13th, 2023 06:04 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Hm, well some of you write essays for posts, so I have only had a chance to skim over some of them. I'll put my reads lists here with explanations then delve into some of the larger posts once I have more time to process them. Varcron ikarusdk Deathworlds powerofdeath Marshmallow Marshall Vittae Mizery Loldebite And here are my reasons as to why my reads are as they are currently: Varcron: It's me..... Duhhhhh Ikarusdk: I don't think I've been wrong reading you yet, and like Deathworlds said previously you remind me a lot of ceko, who I played with quite a bit in the mod as well as FM. Deathworlds: I liked our interactions last night quite a bit, and that's mostly what I'm basing this read off of currently. It isn't as strong of a town read as perhaps Ikarus however you are on the good list for today. PoD: There's not too much here for me but so far I have quite liked his posts, and the limited interaction I have had with PoD as well as his attitude and tone during the game definitely contributes to this read. MM: Mostly absent, not much for me to say here as I haven't formed a decent read on him. Vittae: I don't know..... He seems kind of towny but I haven't played with him before and I need to see more posting before I can firmly plant a read down Mizery: Don't like how they're phrasing their posts, don't like the content, and I don't like the reads. Loldebite: Loldebite for now is my top scum read, but something is off with them. Everything they have said so far in my eyes has in some capacity been scummy, and I can't place my finger on why yet, however this read will likely develop in the future. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 222] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 13th, 2023 07:57 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Hm, well some of you write essays for posts, so I have only had a chance to skim over some of them. I'll put my reads lists here with explanations then delve into some of the larger posts once I have more time to process them. Varcron ikarusdk Deathworlds powerofdeath Marshmallow Marshall Vittae Mizery Loldebite And here are my reasons as to why my reads are as they are currently: Varcron: It's me..... Duhhhhh Ikarusdk: I don't think I've been wrong reading you yet, and like Deathworlds said previously you remind me a lot of ceko, who I played with quite a bit in the mod as well as FM. Deathworlds: I liked our interactions last night quite a bit, and that's mostly what I'm basing this read off of currently. It isn't as strong of a town read as perhaps Ikarus however you are on the good list for today. PoD: There's not too much here for me but so far I have quite liked his posts, and the limited interaction I have had with PoD as well as his attitude and tone during the game definitely contributes to this read. MM: Mostly absent, not much for me to say here as I haven't formed a decent read on him. Vittae: I don't know..... He seems kind of towny but I haven't played with him before and I need to see more posting before I can firmly plant a read down Mizery: Don't like how they're phrasing their posts, don't like the content, and I don't like the reads. Loldebite: Loldebite for now is my top scum read, but something is off with them. Everything they have said so far in my eyes has in some capacity been scummy, and I can't place my finger on why yet, however this read will likely develop in the future. I know ceko, ceko used to play alot in arcade. Don't worry, I am not the same person. To be quite honest, I don't like the tone PoD has used so far. As I stated earlier, they felt more or less AtE. I also disagree with you about Vittae. Vittae has been the most outspoken player here thus far. Plenty of good content to go through. Would you be able to explain why you feel loldebites sound scummy when you manage to find why later on? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 223] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 13th, 2023 08:02 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Wait who said we are all mass claiming? This is the first person to claim Which brings me to my point : should we make citizens claim to clear out PoE ? I know, I know, it is lame and cringe... So, should we be doing it ? I believe this is what Mizery is referring to, and Varcron claimed PR before. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 224] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 13th, 2023 08:04 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah, fuck activity reading. On that note : yes, I might appear online about 13h per days or more. I (almost) always have a couple tabs open with the game, that I check from time to time. I'm not actually all that active. Only reason I'm mentioning it is because it has been raised already and well, yeah, I probably should tell you about it while I can, just to clarify. Yah I will also be appearing online, but I am not actually on the computer reading through so I don't believe in activity reading. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 225] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 13th, 2023 08:05 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I know ceko, ceko used to play alot in arcade. Don't worry, I am not the same person. To be quite honest, I don't like the tone PoD has used so far. As I stated earlier, they felt more or less AtE. I also disagree with you about Vittae. Vittae has been the most outspoken player here thus far. Plenty of good content to go through. Would you be able to explain why you feel loldebites sound scummy when you manage to find why later on? Well when I say 'good content' is from my POV -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 226] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 09:39 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I believe this is what Mizery is referring to, and Varcron claimed PR before. I honestly don’t think its quite a good idea on day 1, I did mention that we should do a mass claim in one of my earlier posts, but only on day 2 if no mafia died by then. I was rereading the setup and saw that hidden PR can be a citizen, which sucks because if we have 1 mafia pretending to be a PR, and we only have 2 town PR, then there is no counter claims. Since most PRs can be either alignments, it boil down to your basic scumhunting. Oh a person claim detective? A doc? Well he can be mafia detective or doc too! I strongly believe that a massclaim should be in order on Day 2 if no mafia died. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 227] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 13th, 2023 09:42 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I honestly don’t think its quite a good idea on day 1, I did mention that we should do a mass claim in one of my earlier posts, but only on day 2 if no mafia died by then. I concur, a massclaim D1 is a bad idea D2 it could be useful though, or D3 depending on if our first lynch is scum or not. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 228] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 13th, 2023 09:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Bucketstrat Bucketstrat Bucketstrat -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 229] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 13th, 2023 10:16 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Good morning/afternoon/evening. Deathworlds set up speculation was a speculation, and did not attempt to solve the game. Towny? I don't think so. It was just fun to read. I guess I should've just left that out from my reason why I town read him. Hm. It's hard to be conclusive on Deathworlds for now, I guess, so I'll just wait and see how he fares in terms of reads later today. I agree that Loldebites post was an actual breakdown of the game set up. Two things I do not like loldebites mechanical break down post, and I think this is quite significant. When I read this post at first I had a feeling it was pre-written. But it is presented to us as a new thought. Now, with that in mind I had a re-read of the post this morning and I'm surprised to see that it was written in 4 minutes. Perhaps it is possible. Perhaps loldebites is used to the layout of the breakdowns in most games. But because something is possible, does that mean that is how it actually happened? *inserts speculation - Perhaps it was pre written in mafia chat to present it as a mechanical breakdown of the set up to appear helpful as a town, especially because we've been talking about how deathworlds breakdown is NAI (i still don't really know what this means but I think I do) and I townread him for it. "NAI" means "Not Alignment Indicative", so I'm not sure I understand what you mean xD. However... Loldebite how come you managed to write that post in 4 minutes? I normally don't check that kind of stuff and the rapidity of the reply eluded me, but I must say Ikarus has a point about this lol. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 230] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 13th, 2023 10:20 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Wait who said we are all mass claiming? This is the first person to claim Mass claiming straight away without town flips to make boxes to put wolves in only helps scum at the moment by telling them what to fakeclaim + what we can do at night. We shouldn't be doing this rn (and we aren't, anyway). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 231] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 13th, 2023 10:23 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Come ONNNN guys ur no fun -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 232] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 13th, 2023 10:24 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Were already winning this game no need to play it so straight -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 233] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 13th, 2023 10:30 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If you think I spare games I signup for any time before it's actually started, you're off the wrong piste. There's a reason I can't come up with roles for KRCs, and it's because I don't do that. Yeah, 4 minutes, unless I was already working on it in that last post ? But I would've said so... mhhh Oh. Oopsie ! oh nevermind my last question to you lol Ikarus, am I correct in my understanding that you are scumreading me because you think I'm wrong on Debbie? Also, what are your thoughts on the post I quoted from him, considering it basically answers your concern? ~~ Reading POD's posts, I remain unimpressed, but also feel like he's just being "the nice guy", remembering good memories about the site or something like that. That is not alignment indicative in itself, but it becomes scummy if it lasts too long without more elaborate content (considering his pushes, questions, etc. have been strictly defensive and borderline OMGUS-y so far, with a shallow "liking" of Vittae's reaction to his vote that isn't backed up by any other post in his ISO). Considering this, I am placing a pressure vote. I don't think we should lynch him just yet, but definetly think he is a little too comfortable with one vote on him. powerofdeath -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 234] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 13th, 2023 10:31 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Were already winning this game no need to play it so straight What makes you say this? :thinking: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 235] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 13th, 2023 10:42 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Tbh I'm falling asleep on my keyboard so I should go away lol, but Mizery's "we're winning" is pinging me hard on the side of TMI. It's not like we have any particularly super promising leads at the moment, so I have doubts here, big doubts Preliminary list of reads before sleep: MM (duh) Varcron (claim; there's nothing else for now, really, so he gets his own special category until we get into more mechanica stuff) Vittae (seems skilled and relatively charismatic, and although they definetly have been trying to get things moving, this could easily be done as any alignment, so I remain vigilant even though they are towny) Loldebite (solely because of the "what would scum claim" mech post, which isn't much, but which is something) Ikarus (pending something to read him, more on this later) POD (decaying into scum if nothing changes, but for now, he still has the benefit of the doubt) Mizery (TMI?) Deathworlds (still icky about the early mech post being performative-ish, nothing much said since then) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 236] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 13th, 2023 10:47 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff NO ONE likes my walls, also I did a lot of responding in my play by play quotes, SAD! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 237] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 13th, 2023 10:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff 29017 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 238] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 13th, 2023 10:50 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I can never get attachments to work in the way I want them to here huh -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 239] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 10:54 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Tbh I'm falling asleep on my keyboard so I should go away lol, but Mizery's "we're winning" is pinging me hard on the side of TMI. It's not like we have any particularly super promising leads at the moment, so I have doubts here, big doubts Preliminary list of reads before sleep: MM (duh) Varcron (claim; there's nothing else for now, really, so he gets his own special category until we get into more mechanica stuff) Vittae (seems skilled and relatively charismatic, and although they definetly have been trying to get things moving, this could easily be done as any alignment, so I remain vigilant even though they are towny) Loldebite (solely because of the "what would scum claim" mech post, which isn't much, but which is something) Ikarus (pending something to read him, more on this later) POD (decaying into scum if nothing changes, but for now, he still has the benefit of the doubt) Mizery (TMI?) Deathworlds (still icky about the early mech post being performative-ish, nothing much said since then) Theres a good chance I wont change :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 240] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 10:55 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also isnt it weird how half of the town scumread Lold but you townread them? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 241] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 10:57 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff There is a good chance that if Lold flip scum, MM is their partner that is trying to derail/form a counterwagon to save their partner. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 242] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 10:58 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff NO ONE likes my walls, also I did a lot of responding in my play by play quotes, SAD! I think it’s quite colorful and pretty. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 243] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 13th, 2023 10:59 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Only if editing is allowed I wouldve put all of those posts in 1, and not make multiple spammy posts -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 244] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 13th, 2023 10:59 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I think it’s quite colorful and pretty. why thank you pod, but I would also appreciate people looking at any of my responses to the many posts made within that same post. But I guess if I spoiler anything then people don't read it -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 245] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 13th, 2023 11:15 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff What makes you say this? :thinking: I agree with your read but what you quoted here in this post is NAL -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 246] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 13th, 2023 11:59 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Hm, well some of you write essays for posts, so I have only had a chance to skim over some of them. I'll put my reads lists here with explanations then delve into some of the larger posts once I have more time to process them. Varcron ikarusdk Deathworlds powerofdeath Marshmallow Marshall Vittae Mizery Loldebite And here are my reasons as to why my reads are as they are currently: Varcron: It's me..... Duhhhhh Ikarusdk: I don't think I've been wrong reading you yet, and like Deathworlds said previously you remind me a lot of ceko, who I played with quite a bit in the mod as well as FM. Deathworlds: I liked our interactions last night quite a bit, and that's mostly what I'm basing this read off of currently. It isn't as strong of a town read as perhaps Ikarus however you are on the good list for today. PoD: There's not too much here for me but so far I have quite liked his posts, and the limited interaction I have had with PoD as well as his attitude and tone during the game definitely contributes to this read. MM: Mostly absent, not much for me to say here as I haven't formed a decent read on him. Vittae: I don't know..... He seems kind of towny but I haven't played with him before and I need to see more posting before I can firmly plant a read down Mizery: Don't like how they're phrasing their posts, don't like the content, and I don't like the reads. Loldebite: Loldebite for now is my top scum read, but something is off with them. Everything they have said so far in my eyes has in some capacity been scummy, and I can't place my finger on why yet, however this read will likely develop in the future. Is this a joke ? Cherry on top is that posting a readslist with reads like that is one of the reason I'm scumread by other people, apparently. Overall, tho, I do like that readslist. I'd probably put MM lower and vittæ higher. Let's see what becomes of it once I've caught up. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 247] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 12:01 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Bucketstrat Bucketstrat Bucketstrat Kay so let me get this straight. You're quite convinced I'm scum and so does literally everyone else. My only contribution was a mechs talk where I literally showed that mass claiming on d1 sucked ass. And you wanna do just that ? Wtf ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 248] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 12:02 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Hm. It's hard to be conclusive on Deathworlds for now, I guess, so I'll just wait and see how he fares in terms of reads later today. "NAI" means "Not Alignment Indicative", so I'm not sure I understand what you mean xD. However... Loldebite how come you managed to write that post in 4 minutes? I normally don't check that kind of stuff and the rapidity of the reply eluded me, but I must say Ikarus has a point about this lol. FOR FUCKS SAKE CAN YOU READ THE GAME BEFORE POSTING STUPID SHIT ? My LITERAL LAST POST was answering that question already -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 249] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 12:03 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff This is EXACTLY the kind of plausible shit spreading that you do as scum lol -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 250] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 12:04 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Were already winning this game no need to play it so straight Can't tell if having an aneurysm or trolling Probably a bad sign -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 251] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 12:12 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff oh nevermind my last question to you lol Ikarus, am I correct in my understanding that you are scumreading me because you think I'm wrong on Debbie? Also, what are your thoughts on the post I quoted from him, considering it basically answers your concern? ~~ Reading POD's posts, I remain unimpressed, but also feel like he's just being "the nice guy", remembering good memories about the site or something like that. That is not alignment indicative in itself, but it becomes scummy if it lasts too long without more elaborate content (considering his pushes, questions, etc. have been strictly defensive and borderline OMGUS-y so far, with a shallow "liking" of Vittae's reaction to his vote that isn't backed up by any other post in his ISO). Considering this, I am placing a pressure vote. I don't think we should lynch him just yet, but definetly think he is a little too comfortable with one vote on him. powerofdeath Tssk, guess you can read after all, woohoo ! That push looks founded on bad reasons, PoD's interaction with me was much more than OMGSUS and clearly as defensive as you claim, cuz I wasn't pushing them nor even considering it. From my POV PoD contributed in both greater quality and greater quantity than say, Mizery. What do you think of that slot, quite comfy at 0 votes ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 252] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 12:20 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Tbh I'm falling asleep on my keyboard so I should go away lol, but Mizery's "we're winning" is pinging me hard on the side of TMI. It's not like we have any particularly super promising leads at the moment, so I have doubts here, big doubts Preliminary list of reads before sleep: MM (duh) Varcron (claim; there's nothing else for now, really, so he gets his own special category until we get into more mechanica stuff) Vittae (seems skilled and relatively charismatic, and although they definetly have been trying to get things moving, this could easily be done as any alignment, so I remain vigilant even though they are towny) Loldebite (solely because of the "what would scum claim" mech post, which isn't much, but which is something) Ikarus (pending something to read him, more on this later) POD (decaying into scum if nothing changes, but for now, he still has the benefit of the doubt) Mizery (TMI?) Deathworlds (still icky about the early mech post being performative-ish, nothing much said since then) MM, all of your reads are basically "pending" Your townread on Varcron is because of a PR claim (which you say is pending mechanical info) Your townread on Vittae is pending pretty much anything, claiming it's because he's experienced and charismatic (and calling everything he's done NAI basically) lol is a semi-micro read based on a single post (with the disclaimer that it means nothing to you really) Ikarus you find yourself unable to read despite, in my opinion and in others, him being pretty towny and having a lot to go on in general Your read on me is just "(TMI?)" which is honestly the most decisive read in your list Death is another single post read but piggybacking on the claim that mech info is useless and seemingly choosing to not get out of that tunnel or talk about his reads post recently. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 253] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 12:22 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Kay so let me get this straight. You're quite convinced I'm scum and so does literally everyone else. My only contribution was a mechs talk where I literally showed that mass claiming on d1 sucked ass. And you wanna do just that ? Wtf ? bucketstrat bucketstrat bucketstrat -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 254] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 12:24 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I do believe i will be at work for EoD and basically all of tomorrow it will be BUSY since it is pie day and we sell pies i am not excited but oh well -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 255] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 12:27 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ikarusdk: This mans gives me ceko first game town vibes, and I could read ceko pretty well back in the day, this is my strongest town read. even if this isn't great reasoning -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 256] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 12:29 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff doesn't feel like obv tmiing ikarus town off of townreads he's getting but that doesn't mean much to me right now -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 257] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 12:34 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Tbh I'm falling asleep on my keyboard so I should go away lol, but Mizery's "we're winning" is pinging me hard on the side of TMI. It's not like we have any particularly super promising leads at the moment, so I have doubts here, big doubts Preliminary list of reads before sleep: MM (duh) Varcron (claim; there's nothing else for now, really, so he gets his own special category until we get into more mechanica stuff) Vittae (seems skilled and relatively charismatic, and although they definetly have been trying to get things moving, this could easily be done as any alignment, so I remain vigilant even though they are towny) Loldebite (solely because of the "what would scum claim" mech post, which isn't much, but which is something) Ikarus (pending something to read him, more on this later) POD (decaying into scum if nothing changes, but for now, he still has the benefit of the doubt) Mizery (TMI?) Deathworlds (still icky about the early mech post being performative-ish, nothing much said since then) Well, uh, thought your read on me had decayed already but I read back and I've no clue why I thought that. Yeah no, something's off. There's no way you've seen me at the far end of everyone's readslist and was content with putting me in the TR range for a mere mech post all the while saying "it ain't much, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯". Especially when your bottom read is based solely on another mech post and honestly the differences are not that great. Definitely not great enough that you can wave your hand and say "Nah all those 6 people are wrong, I can feel it !". -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 258] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 12:34 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff There is a good chance that if Lold flip scum, MM is their partner that is trying to derail/form a counterwagon to save their partner. There's a good chance that MM is trying to pocket me. He's done that before. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 259] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 12:35 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff bucketstrat bucketstrat bucketstrat ... Okay ? Is there any reason you're refusing to engage with me ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 260] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 12:36 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff MM, all of your reads are basically "pending" Your townread on Varcron is because of a PR claim (which you say is pending mechanical info) Your townread on Vittae is pending pretty much anything, claiming it's because he's experienced and charismatic (and calling everything he's done NAI basically) lol is a semi-micro read based on a single post (with the disclaimer that it means nothing to you really) Ikarus you find yourself unable to read despite, in my opinion and in others, him being pretty towny and having a lot to go on in general Your read on me is just "(TMI?)" which is honestly the most decisive read in your list Death is another single post read but piggybacking on the claim that mech info is useless and seemingly choosing to not get out of that tunnel or talk about his reads post recently. Also, I should mention : as much as I want not to, I really like this post. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 261] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 01:40 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Morning folks -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 262] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 01:43 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/50355-S-FM-344-(Ladder)-President-II (james madison) https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49899-S-FM-340-Election-Day-2-0 https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/37434 (twicevitational) https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/36802 (candyland) you should have seen the sorc game and i don't have any other games besides these that are any newer, which is why I don't think they'll be useful to you because I could have sworn you at least claimed to go through some of them. Yeah thanks anyway. I'd expected you to have some more recent stuff lol. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 263] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 01:49 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/36918-S-FM-200-Mafia-Wars-II?p=611844&viewfull=1#post611844 My most recent game I finished in 2016. Funnily enough its probably why I quit the site in the first place. I think I was scum here. https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/36787-S-FM-198-Stay-Classy?p=604019&viewfull=1#post604019 The game before that, I was town. (those 2 games are from 2016, so I was gone longer than I thought, almost 7 years) Appreciate the links. Ftr I believe the site is way, way more chill than it was when you left. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 264] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 01:50 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah thanks anyway. I'd expected you to have some more recent stuff lol. smh you know i dont play as often as i used to -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 265] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 02:01 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ikarus is continuing to put out content that is very impressive for a villager playing their 3rd ever game of ww let alone putting out this level of analysis and depth of thought if they randed wolf. While it's good play to always review your townreads, I'd be very surprised if ika could pull this off as a wolf without any other mafia-related experiences. (Tbf I did have a breakout wolf game at my 1st ever FM game but at least in that case I had a good amount of non-FM mafia background that was transferable, ikarus hasn't mentioned anything of the sort and has made a few comments that make me think they still don't have a lot of experience yet - not really understanding wolves bussing in the lazzy game comes to mind - so I believe that I'm in the right ballpark here.) (Also ika I know you didn't seem confident at first but you're doing a good job regardless of your alignment so just keep it up) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 266] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 02:03 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff smh you know i dont play as often as i used to Pretty sure when I asked for your meta you hadn't corrected me yet and I thought you were on a huge mafia streak? (In my defence I did read your post I just didn't get what you were talking about when you mentioned 50/50 rands until after you told me it was to do with this site whoops) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 267] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 02:23 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff right now i'm 4/3 which means next game will be a mafia rand for all you going to play next game -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 268] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 02:32 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ikarus is continuing to put out content that is very impressive for a villager playing their 3rd ever game of ww let alone putting out this level of analysis and depth of thought if they randed wolf. While it's good play to always review your townreads, I'd be very surprised if ika could pull this off as a wolf without any other mafia-related experiences. (Tbf I did have a breakout wolf game at my 1st ever FM game but at least in that case I had a good amount of non-FM mafia background that was transferable, ikarus hasn't mentioned anything of the sort and has made a few comments that make me think they still don't have a lot of experience yet - not really understanding wolves bussing in the lazzy game comes to mind - so I believe that I'm in the right ballpark here.) (Also ika I know you didn't seem confident at first but you're doing a good job regardless of your alignment so just keep it up) I... Can't say I agree tbh. His readslist is basically "debbie wrote a wall in 4 minutes so he's scum" and "MM is scum because debbie is scum". It IS content, but I fail to see how that's impressive. None of the more recent posts felt particularly interesting either, except maybe the part about PoD and AtE. This feels as much as a pocketing attempt as MM's comments about me tbh. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 269] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 02:33 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Anyways I heard we 2wre gonna bucket? Hardclaim civ Miz WTF WTF Miz -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 270] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 02:37 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Miz WTF WTF Miz bucketstrat bucketstrat bucketstrat -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 271] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 02:37 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Guess it's not me then fucking hell I hate the renegade meta -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 272] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 02:38 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Btw do you reckon it's better to mislynch now or tomorrow ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 273] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 02:41 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Btw do you reckon it's better to mislynch now or tomorrow ? Personally I'd reccomend not doing it at all, but maybe that's just me -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 274] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 02:44 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I... Can't say I agree tbh. His readslist is basically "debbie wrote a wall in 4 minutes so he's scum" and "MM is scum because debbie is scum". It IS content, but I fail to see how that's impressive. None of the more recent posts felt particularly interesting either, except maybe the part about PoD and AtE. This feels as much as a pocketing attempt as MM's comments about me tbh. I generally believe in being nice to beginners who are trying their best and not too much use in pocketing ikarus anyway when they have me as a top town already. But to address the actual points here - I get that a lot of ika's points aren't the level of solving quality you'd expect from an experienced player but ika isn't an experienced player. The question isn't "is this too bad to come from them as a villager" because the answer is no, ika has made some very dubious points and that's to be expected from a player who is still learning. The question is "does this player have TMI? Does this player know everyone else's alignments already or are they actively trying to find them out? Do they genuinely believe in what they're saying?". In this case I believe ika is very likely to be genuinely trying to uncover alignments unburdened by TMI and genuinely believes in what they're doing even if to a more experienced player some of their lines of inquiry look fruitless. I feel a bit like you're getting caught up on "good" posts vs "bad" posts instead of towny posts vs wolfy posts. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 275] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 02:44 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Guess it's not me then fucking hell I hate the renegade meta Renegade meta? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 276] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 02:45 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Personally I'd reccomend not doing it at all, but maybe that's just me Pretty hot take ngl. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 277] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 02:53 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ikarusdk NAI stands for not/non-alignment indicative. Just means null, usually referring to a specific behaviour or post that isn't either towny or scummy. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 278] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 02:54 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff bucketstrat bucketstrat bucketstrat Didn't you hate bucket in champs though? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 279] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 02:54 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Did I convert you to my buckety ways? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 280] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 02:59 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Vittae: I need to see more posting before I can firmly plant a read down. We should all vote Vittae to make them post more. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 281] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:02 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Didn't you hate bucket in champs though? long story that i wrote out and deleted short, i don't like a lot of things in champs because they lead to skewed voting/ranking -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 282] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:04 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff im gonna wake up for work in three hours -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 283] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:06 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff long story that i wrote out and deleted short, i don't like a lot of things in champs because they lead to skewed voting/ranking Yeah I agree with you there. In all seriousness bucket in champs was terrible and was part of the reason finals was so poor that season. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 284] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:08 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb, got a reads list atm? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 285] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:10 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff FOR FUCKS SAKE CAN YOU READ THE GAME BEFORE POSTING STUPID SHIT ? My LITERAL LAST POST was answering that question already This is EXACTLY the kind of plausible shit spreading that you do as scum lol I've been burned by AtE before but the frustration here reads towny. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 286] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:13 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah lol is town for me too and I'm bumping MM down to my wolf tier in trade -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 287] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:13 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I refuse to call them debbie -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 288] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:27 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Totally missed ikarus saying they have experienced in starcraft arcade mafia. Most of the points of my townread still apply but I'm much more wary of their wolf range now than I was previously. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 289] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:32 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ika is still my top town my read on him has just gone from "this would be basically impossible for ika to be able to fake" to "this would be very unlikely for ika to be able to fake". -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 290] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:41 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ftr on why I think Varcron's claim is towny. I broadly agree on what some others (notably death) have said wrt it being a good play as a wolf. But do I think it's likely that wolf-Varcron immediately locks himself into a specific PR claim? I don't know Varcron at all besides reading the lazzy game (where they claimed town PR immediately but because it was mech optimal to do so in that setup due to no nightkills) but most wolves are pretty hesitant to lock themselves into a claim so early. I think it broadly depends on the specifics of Varcron's role and if it's realistic for then to have it or not which is something that can only really be discussed after Varcron full claims. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 291] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:45 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff More to add but it's not worth spending too much time on Varcron when it's heavily influenced by mech we don't have yet. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 292] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 04:01 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Miz did you really (confidently) think we were winning the game when you were pushing for bucket or just memeing? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 293] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 04:33 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Miz is a complicated read for me. To get it out of the way, I don't like the bucket sequence of posts from a gameplay perspective and I have questions about that much later but I also think they're very in character for town-Miz so I'm ignoring them for now. Solving-wise, she is doing significantly better this game than I've ever seen her as a wolf. She tends to be quite avoidance of (fake)solving as a wolf and in cases where she does knuckle down and try to post content it is of a noticeably lower quality than it is in this game. While I like Miz's solving posts and general "solving is a higher priority than memeing" attitude this game there's no single thing that stands out to me as clearing from her and I'm aware that her wolf range could be better than I'm giving her credit for given the reasonable amount of time that's passed since the last wolf game of hers I've seen. I have her as likely town overall (with some reservations about if this play is within her range and if she's trying to indirectly pocket me by playing in a way she expects I'll townread but I'm sceptical she could really pull off a wolf game the way she's playing here). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 294] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 04:37 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Tl:dr Miz's play here is strongly resembles her "tryhard" towngame (which I've never seen her get close to replicating as a wolf) and is very different to her typical "tryhard" wolf game so she's proooobably just town, she just doesn't have any one specific clearing thing that I could use to lock her in as a high confidence read. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 295] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 04:39 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Will look at her more critically if it's difficult to find 2 wolves in MM/Death/deb/PoD when I look at those 4 in more detail. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 296] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 06:23 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Personally I'd reccomend not doing it at all, but maybe that's just me Damn that's a good idea ! How did I not think about it in my previous games ?! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 297] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 06:33 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I generally believe in being nice to beginners who are trying their best and not too much use in pocketing ikarus anyway when they have me as a top town already. But to address the actual points here - I get that a lot of ika's points aren't the level of solving quality you'd expect from an experienced player but ika isn't an experienced player. The question isn't "is this too bad to come from them as a villager" because the answer is no, ika has made some very dubious points and that's to be expected from a player who is still learning. The question is "does this player have TMI? Does this player know everyone else's alignments already or are they actively trying to find them out? Do they genuinely believe in what they're saying?". In this case I believe ika is very likely to be genuinely trying to uncover alignments unburdened by TMI and genuinely believes in what they're doing even if to a more experienced player some of their lines of inquiry look fruitless. I feel a bit like you're getting caught up on "good" posts vs "bad" posts instead of towny posts vs wolfy posts. There's a difference between being nice and being lenient, I guess it is a thin one. Ika's accusation did feel legit but that's the kind of stuff that scum love to pick up on to spread doubt and paranoia. Admittedly, that's very likely not what ika's been doing here, but I'm fairly confident that a newbie scum would also be delighted to have (seemingly) valid reasons to cause a mislynch and that's why I wasn't convinced. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 298] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 06:38 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb, got a reads list atm? I think I mentioned rapidly where my reads were at when I replied to ika's list. If I am to make another one it'll have to wait just a bit - meeting going on soon and I probably won't have time to fully catch up before that. I'll get it done asap afterwards, since EoD is getting close -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 299] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 06:38 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I refuse to call them debbie One day you'll yield and join us -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 300] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 06:43 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I've been burned by AtE before but the frustration here reads towny. Ehh I'm glad to hear that don't get me wrong but... Yeah lol is town for me too and I'm bumping MM down to my wolf tier in trade Okay that's what I like to hear. That's gonna be interesting, imma read that closely. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 301] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 06:53 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Okay change of plans, here's a short insight that goes through my head and figured I might as well throw it in there rather than note it somewhere and get back to it in an hour I've been thinking about pairings and I think that Vittæ/Mizery is probably not S/S (based on their interaction today, mostly, can't recall exactly what made me think that but I'll get back to it when I can), whereas Vittæ/MM or Mizery/Vittæ seemed very plausible. That's why I'm very intrigued to see Mizery push MM now and how people will respond to that. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 302] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 08:07 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Okay change of plans, here's a short insight that goes through my head and figured I might as well throw it in there rather than note it somewhere and get back to it in an hour I've been thinking about pairings and I think that Vittæ/Mizery is probably not S/S (based on their interaction today, mostly, can't recall exactly what made me think that but I'll get back to it when I can), whereas Vittæ/MM or Mizery/Vittæ seemed very plausible. That's why I'm very intrigued to see Mizery push MM now and how people will respond to that. https://i.ibb.co/GHQHby3/7eg2gl.jpg I don't make memes often smh. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 303] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 08:19 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff There's a difference between being nice and being lenient, I guess it is a thin one. Ika's accusation did feel legit but that's the kind of stuff that scum love to pick up on to spread doubt and paranoia. Admittedly, that's very likely not what ika's been doing here, but I'm fairly confident that a newbie scum would also be delighted to have (seemingly) valid reasons to cause a mislynch and that's why I wasn't convinced. Your bottom paragraph is valid but I also agree that it's unlikely to be happening atm. Interested in how ikarus will react to having their wolfread on you and by extension MM be widely agreed to be mistaken though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 304] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 09:13 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff NO ONE likes my walls, also I did a lot of responding in my play by play quotes, SAD! ... in which you state that you need some time to get the ball rolling. I must say I like the fact you're basically acknowledging my point on your mech talk vs Debbie's while still defending yours, though. + some townpoints with decay :) Theres a good chance I wont change :) Then there is a good chance you're actively unhelpful? Defending yourself and being in constant reaction isn't scum-hunting and doesn't help town, so you're basically saying you do not wish to help here. Also isnt it weird how half of the town scumread Lold but you townread them? I would rather say it's weird half the town scumread Loldebite and put so much faith in it while he really hadn't done much to be hated for yet lol. Your read is literally based on this: I am posting contents I feel like you're looking down on me for some reasons. Loldebite which isn't even that much of a scumtell lol. You are making the whole world revolve around yourself (not in the "you're egoist" sense, but in the "you fail to see further" sense), which tells me you're afraid of making mistakes and thus play very conservative. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 305] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 09:19 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I agree with your read but what you quoted here in this post is NAL How is this NAI? I guess I should've been more explicit in my reasoning: how does one know we're winning as town right now? Basically everyone is in various shades of yellow in my mind (although it's getting clearer atm, like with POD), so this statement feels VASTLY out of place and screams TMI. I could understand it if Mizery had super clear-cut reads in which she had great certainty (in which case I would be impressed), but that does not seem to be the case. for reference, here's the post: Were already winning this game no need to play it so straight -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 306] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 09:29 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Hey wait a minute, I just realized something lol I agree with your read but what you quoted here in this post is NAL If you think the reason I'm scumreading Mizery for is invalid, how do you "agree with my read"...? Do you just mean you also scumread her? Tssk, guess you can read after all, woohoo ! That push looks founded on bad reasons, PoD's interaction with me was much more than OMGSUS and clearly as defensive as you claim, cuz I wasn't pushing them nor even considering it. From my POV PoD contributed in both greater quality and greater quantity than say, Mizery. What do you think of that slot, quite comfy at 0 votes ? -_- sorry lol What is so great about POD's interaction with you? I fail to see how it goes beyond the "you accused me, GRRR" sphere: you said he was pulling a gambit of some sorts, he voted you for "looking down on him", and then the interaction was all about this - plus, it was quite tenuous. Are we even thinking of the same posts, actually? Because it feels like you're reading another PoD game to me lol. As for Mizery, I certainly am not comfortable with her (see my previous posts on TMI-ish statement) and don't see anything she has done that she couldn't have done as scum. Plus, as I said earlier, she's easier to read on content/results than on "gut" or similar stuff, and thus far, I'm not impressed. I see posts from her after yours though so I'm getting to them; more on this later -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 307] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 09:46 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff deathworlds talk to me about PoD? You're giving them a lot of slack so I'm interested to know more about your experiences with them. If you replaced PoD with a new player to FM with a similar attitude towards solving (replace "I'm not solving because I'm rusty" with "I'm not solving because I'm new") would you give the new player a comparative amount of slack? I mean no disrespect to PoD's posting I'm just interested since I feel a few reads posts in the thread have given PoD way more slack for being rusty than I'd personally give to even a brand new player to the game. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 308] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 09:48 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If PoD is town though I'd be immediately pretty sceptical of the players who didn't want to PoE them for bad reasons. Perfect player to drag to lylo in the current circumstances. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 309] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 09:51 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I agree with your read but what you quoted here in this post is NAL MM, all of your reads are basically "pending" Your townread on Varcron is because of a PR claim (which you say is pending mechanical info) Your townread on Vittae is pending pretty much anything, claiming it's because he's experienced and charismatic (and calling everything he's done NAI basically) lol is a semi-micro read based on a single post (with the disclaimer that it means nothing to you really) Ikarus you find yourself unable to read despite, in my opinion and in others, him being pretty towny and having a lot to go on in general Your read on me is just "(TMI?)" which is honestly the most decisive read in your list Death is another single post read but piggybacking on the claim that mech info is useless and seemingly choosing to not get out of that tunnel or talk about his reads post recently. - My townread on Varcron is pending mechanical confirmation, which shouldn't exactly be a surprise - he is nonetheless my top town read and that was very clear. - Your take on my Vittae read is actually the only correct one in this post: I have zero confidence in reading this kind of experienced, high effort players on D1 when they make no brilliant moves or terrible blunders. This one is DEFINETLY pending actually AI stuff. - Yes, loldebite is a micro-read with little strength (but still with SOME strength, which is why he is not in nulls, but in a town lean category that's right next to the nulls)... and? This feels like a gratuitous discredit with basically nothing around it. - I didn't say I was unable to read Ikarus, but rather that I'm waiting on a reply from him to read him. The question I asked him is literally two posts away from the one you quoted. Also, you just said "you said you weren't townreading him despite him being towny, ????!?"... which, once again, really is just a discredit without content - Uuuuh, that's all you have to say about your weird "we're winning"? I refuse to let it be dismissed as nothing at all without even an explanation. - You're acting like it's the middle of day 3 and everyone has novels to read people on, while you aren't even doing that yourself for the very good reason that it's not possible yet: your post is literally post #252. The level of certainty you are showing here does not match that of your posts that feature actual reads, and it definetly doesn't match the state of the game right now - which strengthens my TMI suspicions. Overall, this is a very dishonest post with a lot of misrepresentations (or partial representations, let's say) and a whole lot of red paint; it's literally a big discredit ball thrown at me without even an actual conclusion to it, it's just pointing at things to make them look bad when they actually aren't. There isn't a hint of genuine solviness in there. Mizery -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 310] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 10:00 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Like if I was extremely, extremely rusty reads-wise, I'd be: - Asking a lot of questions and engaging with people in the thread. It would help me make reads on them and if I was really struggling with reads finding somebody with reliable well thought through reads to sponge would be my last resort alternative to making my own. - Still attempting to make reads (just very poorly) or just highlighting important posts that I thought were interesting if I was really stuck. - If somebody was asking me to make reads and I was struggling I would be up front about struggling and working on it instead of dodging / ignoring the questions. Obviously not everyone is me and people respond differently but what really irks me about PoD's ISO is the fact that they just never tried at all until basically forced to. It doesn't feel like somebody trying to get into the game and getting stuck, it feels like somebody who randed wolf and didn't know what to do so evaded posting content while trying to superficially appear active. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 311] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 10:03 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Well, uh, thought your read on me had decayed already but I read back and I've no clue why I thought that. Yeah no, something's off. There's no way you've seen me at the far end of everyone's readslist and was content with putting me in the TR range for a mere mech post all the while saying "it ain't much, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯". Especially when your bottom read is based solely on another mech post and honestly the differences are not that great. Definitely not great enough that you can wave your hand and say "Nah all those 6 people are wrong, I can feel it !". I think you fail to see the difference between my read on Deathworlds' post and yours (although I kind of like Deathworlds better now that he's acknowledged what I'm saying and more or less mindmelded with me on the topic of large mech posts). Even him sees that there are differences. As for "those 6 people are wrong": 6 people, what? + Do you mean I should be scumreading you... because other people are saying you're scummy because "everything you did seemed scummy" (@Varcron, I believe you still haven't explained that, btw), which is basically saying you're scum because you are, or because of POD's hyperdefensive vote on you that I'm honestly not even sure is a scumread on you? This feels like massive paranoia tbh, and I'm not sure whether it's real or not, considering it feels quite heavy for very little reason. More paranoia below: There's a good chance that MM is trying to pocket me. He's done that before. I... Can't say I agree tbh. His readslist is basically "debbie wrote a wall in 4 minutes so he's scum" and "MM is scum because debbie is scum". It IS content, but I fail to see how that's impressive. None of the more recent posts felt particularly interesting either, except maybe the part about PoD and AtE. This feels as much as a pocketing attempt as MM's comments about me tbh. I'm curious to hear what Vittae thinks of the Debbie paranoia, actually, especially considering the last post is about them. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 312] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 10:05 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm not super tunnelled on PoD I swear I'm just procrastinating doing the more time consuming ISOs by doing PoD first lol. There's obviously another wolf in the game even if PoD is a wolf (something I'm far from certain on) so I have every intention of getting a larger PoE, I just ended up with loose townreads on a lot of people initially that I need to go over. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 313] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 10:08 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I am not mafia, or wolf. I am town. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 314] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 10:08 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Like if I was extremely, extremely rusty reads-wise, I'd be: - Asking a lot of questions and engaging with people in the thread. It would help me make reads on them and if I was really struggling with reads finding somebody with reliable well thought through reads to sponge would be my last resort alternative to making my own. - Still attempting to make reads (just very poorly) or just highlighting important posts that I thought were interesting if I was really stuck. - If somebody was asking me to make reads and I was struggling I would be up front about struggling and working on it instead of dodging / ignoring the questions. Obviously not everyone is me and people respond differently but what really irks me about PoD's ISO is the fact that they just never tried at all until basically forced to. It doesn't feel like somebody trying to get into the game and getting stuck, it feels like somebody who randed wolf and didn't know what to do so evaded posting content while trying to superficially appear active. +1 This is VERY true, especially considering I believe POD used to play quite a lot. I would expect a similar behavior from town!POD here, especially point #2, which is sorely lacking (literally the only posts he responds to are posts about himself). Where do you see him "trying" now, btw? I don't see it at all (he in fact doubled down on his style earlier with his "chances are I won't change :)"). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 315] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 10:10 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ... in which you state that you need some time to get the ball rolling. I must say I like the fact you're basically acknowledging my point on your mech talk vs Debbie's while still defending yours, though. + some townpoints with decay :) Then there is a good chance you're actively unhelpful? Defending yourself and being in constant reaction isn't scum-hunting and doesn't help town, so you're basically saying you do not wish to help here. I would rather say it's weird half the town scumread Loldebite and put so much faith in it while he really hadn't done much to be hated for yet lol. Your read is literally based on this: which isn't even that much of a scumtell lol. You are making the whole world revolve around yourself (not in the "you're egoist" sense, but in the "you fail to see further" sense), which tells me you're afraid of making mistakes and thus play very conservative. I fos them based on the way the reacted to me voting them. The first thing they did was voting the person I previously voted, in hope that I would switch back or something, almost similar to trying to pocket me. They completely distanced themselves from me for some reasons. I kinda find that scummy. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 316] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 10:11 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I am not mafia, or wolf. I am town. What's your read on Mizery? Your thoughts on my case on her? powerofdeath if you are town, now is the time to generate information about SOMETHING that isn't directly related to yourself. And if you're scum, it's your occasion to potentially out your teammate ^^ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 317] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 10:11 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff +1 This is VERY true, especially considering I believe POD used to play quite a lot. I would expect a similar behavior from town!POD here, especially point #2, which is sorely lacking (literally the only posts he responds to are posts about himself). Where do you see him "trying" now, btw? I don't see it at all (he in fact doubled down on his style earlier with his "chances are I won't change :)"). I am trying. If I wasnt trying i would be lurkfest -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 318] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 10:12 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff What's your read on Mizery? Your thoughts on my case on her? powerofdeath if you are town, now is the time to generate information about SOMETHING that isn't directly related to yourself. And if you're scum, it's your occasion to potentially out your teammate ^^ I slightly townread her based on the claim and wanting town to massclaim. I dont think mafia would take a risk making themselves look bad by asking for massclaim -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 319] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 10:13 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff What's your read on Mizery? Your thoughts on my case on her? powerofdeath if you are town, now is the time to generate information about SOMETHING that isn't directly related to yourself. And if you're scum, it's your occasion to potentially out your teammate ^^ This wifom is bad. "And if you're scum, it's your occasion to potentially out your teammate ^^" Kinda making me fos you a lil bit more -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 320] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 10:14 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I slightly townread her based on the claim and wanting town to massclaim. I dont think mafia would take a risk making themselves look bad by asking for massclaim Having a mech stance isn't exactly compromising for scum (or for anyone, really), at least not at this stage of the game, so I'm not sure I agree here. What about my case on her, though? Do you have no issues with "we're winning" or with the "point out" discrediting she's been doing? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 321] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 10:15 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I voted 2 people in this game, I liked Vittae's reaction and it made me read them better. I did not like Vold's reaction and made me scumread them more. If they weren't so scummy I would be voting for MM. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 322] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 10:16 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Having a mech stance isn't exactly compromising for scum (or for anyone, really), at least not at this stage of the game, so I'm not sure I agree here. What about my case on her, though? Do you have no issues with "we're winning" or with the "point out" discrediting she's been doing? I also think we are winning though, a lot of people are townlocked, so not a lot of room for mafia to hide -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 323] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 10:16 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff This wifom is bad. "And if you're scum, it's your occasion to potentially out your teammate ^^" Kinda making me fos you a lil bit more What wifom? It's a way to force you to interact and share thoughts; it's very first-level and clear. And... you're once again going into the defense zone. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 324] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 10:17 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff What wifom? It's a way to force you to interact and share thoughts; it's very first-level and clear. And... you're once again going into the defense zone. No but it feel like youre trying to setup a bait and its stupid -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 325] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 10:18 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I also think we are winning though, a lot of people are townlocked, so not a lot of room for mafia to hide Uhm, who's townlocked, exactly? The only one I could see being potentially close to a townlock is Varcron, but even that depends on later flips. Also, this was earlier in the game. And you still haven't addressed the other part of my post... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 326] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 10:21 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Uhm, who's townlocked, exactly? The only one I could see being potentially close to a townlock is Varcron, but even that depends on later flips. Also, this was earlier in the game. And you still haven't addressed the other part of my post... I feel like a lot of people tr Ikar, varcron, maybe vittae. I personally tr mizery even if you don't that leave few people like vold, you, maybe deathworlds but my read on him is mostly null. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 327] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 10:28 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I feel like a lot of people tr Ikar, varcron, maybe vittae. I personally tr mizery even if you don't that leave few people like vold, you, maybe deathworlds but my read on him is mostly null. Since you're blatantly ignoring my question, I put color on it and give you the post: what do you say of this? - My townread on Varcron is pending mechanical confirmation, which shouldn't exactly be a surprise - he is nonetheless my top town read and that was very clear. - Your take on my Vittae read is actually the only correct one in this post: I have zero confidence in reading this kind of experienced, high effort players on D1 when they make no brilliant moves or terrible blunders. This one is DEFINETLY pending actually AI stuff. - Yes, loldebite is a micro-read with little strength (but still with SOME strength, which is why he is not in nulls, but in a town lean category that's right next to the nulls)... and? This feels like a gratuitous discredit with basically nothing around it. - I didn't say I was unable to read Ikarus, but rather that I'm waiting on a reply from him to read him. The question I asked him is literally two posts away from the one you quoted. Also, you just said "you said you weren't townreading him despite him being towny, ????!?"... which, once again, really is just a discredit without content - Uuuuh, that's all you have to say about your weird "we're winning"? I refuse to let it be dismissed as nothing at all without even an explanation. - You're acting like it's the middle of day 3 and everyone has novels to read people on, while you aren't even doing that yourself for the very good reason that it's not possible yet: your post is literally post #252. The level of certainty you are showing here does not match that of your posts that feature actual reads, and it definetly doesn't match the state of the game right now - which strengthens my TMI suspicions. Overall, this is a very dishonest post with a lot of misrepresentations (or partial representations, let's say) and a whole lot of red paint; it's literally a big discredit ball thrown at me without even an actual conclusion to it, it's just pointing at things to make them look bad when they actually aren't. There isn't a hint of genuine solviness in there. Mizery The fact you're straight up ignoring the question despite it being asked in posts you reply to (and those posts are short, so you can't miss it all the time) makes me think we might be in a Mizery/POD world. Apart from this, why do you townread Ikarus enough to call him townlocked? This confidence starkly contrasts with the "I need time to get my scumdar going again" and the hyperdefensiveness you showed before. I believe we shouldn't take POD to LYLO. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 328] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 10:29 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Vittae do you have an opinion on Mm omgusing me here -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 329] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 10:32 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ...actually, LYLO is literally tomorrow if we mislynch today powerofdeath My scumread on Mizery still stands and is actually stronger now, assuming POD flips scum -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 330] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 10:35 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Vittae do you have an opinion on Mm omgusing me here Do you? Take a stance instead of testing the waters first :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 331] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 10:36 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Since you're blatantly ignoring my question, I put color on it and give you the post: what do you say of this? The fact you're straight up ignoring the question despite it being asked in posts you reply to (and those posts are short, so you can't miss it all the time) makes me think we might be in a Mizery/POD world. Apart from this, why do you townread Ikarus enough to call him townlocked? This confidence starkly contrasts with the "I need time to get my scumdar going again" and the hyperdefensiveness you showed before. I believe we shouldn't take POD to LYLO. Isnt 24 hours more than enough time? Didn't I already answered that question? I tr Mizery based on how they claimed citizen out of nowhere, how they wanted to massclaim. I was thinking of the same thing myself but I felt like it wasn't a good time to do it. I rather wait until tomorrow when PRs can claim results AND their roles. What kind of line is that? If I'm mafia, wouldn't it be easier for you to vote me out? If I'm town, then this line is so bad because its like youre suggesting me to die even if I'm town -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 332] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 10:36 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff - My townread on Varcron is pending mechanical confirmation, which shouldn't exactly be a surprise - he is nonetheless my top town read and that was very clear. Reserving judgement on Vacron seems to imply assuming mechs will help anything, why do you make that assumption ? If you are at all Nothing to say about the rest of the post, which sounds much more like your town self. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 333] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 10:37 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ...actually, LYLO is literally tomorrow if we mislynch today powerofdeath My scumread on Mizery still stands and is actually stronger now, assuming POD flips scum Again with "mislynch". it's almost like you know I am a mislynch. I feel like this is a hard slip by MM. Marshmallow Marshall -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 334] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 10:41 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I think you fail to see the difference between my read on Deathworlds' post and yours (although I kind of like Deathworlds better now that he's acknowledged what I'm saying and more or less mindmelded with me on the topic of large mech posts). Even him sees that there are differences. As for "those 6 people are wrong": 6 people, what? + Do you mean I should be scumreading you... because other people are saying you're scummy because "everything you did seemed scummy" (@Varcron, I believe you still haven't explained that, btw), which is basically saying you're scum because you are, or because of POD's hyperdefensive vote on you that I'm honestly not even sure is a scumread on you? This feels like massive paranoia tbh, and I'm not sure whether it's real or not, considering it feels quite heavy for very little reason. More paranoia below: I'm curious to hear what Vittae thinks of the Debbie paranoia, actually, especially considering the last post is about them. No... I'm saying you should have more to say about why you didn't when everyone else did, that's all there is to it. When I'm town and what I believe is in contradiction with what everyone else thinks, I don't brush it away like a bothersome fly, I slap it in front of everyone and address the issue head on. I think that's also something you do (and that you did with mizery just now, btw) and I'm surprised you didn't about me being scumread. Hate to break it to you but when literally everyone but ONE is scum reading you, you're a fucking moron if you don't ask yourself if it's a pocketing attempt. Kay, fine, either a fucking moron or a scum that knows more than I do. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 335] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 10:44 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I fos them based on the way the reacted to me voting them. The first thing they did was voting the person I previously voted, in hope that I would switch back or something, almost similar to trying to pocket me. They completely distanced themselves from me for some reasons. I kinda find that scummy. Once again you claim there is causation where there is none, I thought I had seen an inconsistency and jumped on it, that's all. How have I been distancing myself ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 336] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 10:44 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Isnt 24 hours more than enough time? Didn't I already answered that question? I tr Mizery based on how they claimed citizen out of nowhere, how they wanted to massclaim. I was thinking of the same thing myself but I felt like it wasn't a good time to do it. I rather wait until tomorrow when PRs can claim results AND their roles. What kind of line is that? If I'm mafia, wouldn't it be easier for you to vote me out? If I'm town, then this line is so bad because its like youre suggesting me to die even if I'm town Perhaps, but in this case, shouldn't it show in your posts? It definetly didn't. No and you literally ignored my post again despite the fact I quoted it for you lol so I can't assume good faith anymore This is mostly for reference for others because I think you're just scum lol, but the point is to avoid taking highly controversial/suspicious/question mark slots to LYLO, since if they're town, scum can and absolutely will capitalize on that to win the game (and if they're scum, well duh, you're lynching scum, which is the point of the game lol). You 100 % are one of those slots, and like 95 % are just scum anyway. Again with "mislynch". it's almost like you know I am a mislynch. I feel like this is a hard slip by MM. Marshmallow Marshall -_- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 337] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 10:47 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Please stop with that blue font it HURTS ;( -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 338] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 10:49 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff No... I'm saying you should have more to say about why you didn't when everyone else did, that's all there is to it. When I'm town and what I believe is in contradiction with what everyone else thinks, I don't brush it away like a bothersome fly, I slap it in front of everyone and address the issue head on. I think that's also something you do (and that you did with mizery just now, btw) and I'm surprised you didn't about me being scumread. Hate to break it to you but when literally everyone but ONE is scum reading you, you're a fucking moron if you don't ask yourself if it's a pocketing attempt. Kay, fine, either a fucking moron or a scum that knows more than I do. I feel like you're just being weakly scumread by those who do scumread you, though, and don't feel like you're in any real danger for now. Perhaps this is just confirmation bias because I don't think I should vote you right now, but you seem to be overblowing the hate against you lol. If someone wants to step up and say NO, DEBBIE IS SCUM, then it would be a nice discussion to have, but that basically doesn't exist as far as I can tell. Plus, funnily enough, two of the votes on you have been POD and Mizery lol. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 339] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 10:54 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah it seems like I overestimated how confident people were of their reads. It IS interesting that mizery's vote's still here, especially since she's said she doesn't believe I'm scum anymore. For some reason I was convinced ika had voted as well, probably because red = vote in my mind lol Anyway let's have another quick mech talk : is it better to skip today lynch tomorrow or lynch asap ? I'm personally hesitant -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 340] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 11:02 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff As a partial response to MD asking where I thought PoD was putting effort in + some of my own opinions from the PoD ISO: PoD has mildly trended up for me on reread. After reading their ISO again, I liked that they noticed the very odd Deb vote on me could have been an attempt by Deb to manipulate PoD into switching onto me over Deb. It's something I considered as well but don't think I posted in the thread and it's not something that is extremely surface level obvious. I think their stretch of posts after I left the thread has been an improvement as well, particularly the post where they said they thought town is winning. I don't necessarily agree but I am doubtful that a wolf-PoD that is getting semi-buried by my inadvertent wolf case on them would post such a thing, especially if town really was winning and their partner is in the consensus PoE rn. I'd expect most wolves to be too salty for such a post to come to mind. Tl;dr PoD still PoE but actually has some alright posts. And MM - I'm giving them credit for trying now because they are doing stuff of their own initiative (reads list most obvious example) instead of having me almost force them into doing it and that's basically all I was asking them for. Also we can definitely take PoD to lylo if Deb is a wolf and we flip them first as if I'm remembering correctly there's interactions there that make them very unlikely to be partnered. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 341] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 11:02 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Haven't read PoD meta in detail yet ftr. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 342] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 11:09 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Vittae do you have an opinion on Mm omgusing me here Haven't given it too much attention, will be ISOing MM in detail next probably. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 343] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 11:19 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I think you fail to see the difference between my read on Deathworlds' post and yours (although I kind of like Deathworlds better now that he's acknowledged what I'm saying and more or less mindmelded with me on the topic of large mech posts). Even him sees that there are differences. As for "those 6 people are wrong": 6 people, what? + Do you mean I should be scumreading you... because other people are saying you're scummy because "everything you did seemed scummy" (@Varcron, I believe you still haven't explained that, btw), which is basically saying you're scum because you are, or because of POD's hyperdefensive vote on you that I'm honestly not even sure is a scumread on you? This feels like massive paranoia tbh, and I'm not sure whether it's real or not, considering it feels quite heavy for very little reason. More paranoia below: I'm curious to hear what Vittae thinks of the Debbie paranoia, actually, especially considering the last post is about them. Missed this, sorry. I thought Deb's reaction was towny as a snap judgment but I have very mixed opinions on the slot atm. They're another player I'm going through shortly. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 344] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 11:24 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff When I'm town... Not one for picking apart semantics but I wanted to ask about this. Why add "when I'm town"? You've apparently never been mafia prior to this game, only a serial killer. Did you not do this as a SK? Most people play similarly as SK to how they do as town so that's not what I'd typically expect. Or what else did you mean by the wording? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 345] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 11:27 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah it seems like I overestimated how confident people were of their reads. It IS interesting that mizery's vote's still here, especially since she's said she doesn't believe I'm scum anymore. For some reason I was convinced ika had voted as well, probably because red = vote in my mind lol Anyway let's have another quick mech talk : is it better to skip today lynch tomorrow or lynch asap ? I'm personally hesitant Tomorrow. Potential for a chemist of either alignment in the setup. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 346] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 11:34 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Less than 5 hours left before deadline. I suggest people who havent voted to use their votes -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 347] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 11:34 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff That include both Lold and Ikar -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 348] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 11:46 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff powerofdeath gth right now who is the exact wolf team? Just the two names is fine. If anyone else feels like answering this question they're also welcome to. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 349] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 11:53 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff deathworlds talk to me about PoD? You're giving them a lot of slack so I'm interested to know more about your experiences with them. If you replaced PoD with a new player to FM with a similar attitude towards solving (replace "I'm not solving because I'm rusty" with "I'm not solving because I'm new") would you give the new player a comparative amount of slack? I mean no disrespect to PoD's posting I'm just interested since I feel a few reads posts in the thread have given PoD way more slack for being rusty than I'd personally give to even a brand new player to the game. I mean, probably not. I think I'm biased towards seeing my old pally PoD in the game. If I saw a new player with the same posting standards as PoD (as of this reply) then I'd likely keep them on the backburner and go after more obv scum while the slot eventually resolves itself. Assuming we lynch today (we probably should) and it's a mislynch, then we're in Lylo, and unfortunately Lylo is not a great place to have slots that won't resolve themselves quickly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 350] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 11:59 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Thanks, didn't quite get the last sentence though. Are you saying you do want to give PoD time or that you usually would in a larger game but this game is an exception because lylo is tomorrow if we miselim? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 351] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 12:01 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also yeah we never sleep today because there's the potential for multiple deaths tonight (most likely a poison from a town chemist - I think one existing is likely from a setup balance pov). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 352] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 12:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Thanks, didn't quite get the last sentence though. Are you saying you do want to give PoD time or that you usually would in a larger game but this game is an exception because lylo is tomorrow if we miselim? The latter. I'm going to go through my ISOs again, and reconfirm who I think we should lynch (it's between loldebite, miz, and pod) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 353] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 12:05 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff "I'm only going to put minimal effort into this game" and other lies that you can tell yourself when you come back from your mafia retirement. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 354] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 12:44 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff powerofdeath gth right now who is the exact wolf team? Just the two names is fine. If anyone else feels like answering this question they're also welcome to. Lold and MM. MM is hard defending Lold while Lold is soft bussing MM but never quite voting them. I feel like theyre a team -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 355] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 12:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/50199-S-FM-343-Trip-to-the-Library-Gamethread?p=967935#post967935 D1 reads list of wolf-MM in a recent game. His ISO is an interesting read for anyone interested in meta. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 356] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 12:46 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff MM is doing everything he can to derail the case on Lold, gaslight me as much as he possibly can, tried to form a counterwagons toward towny people like Mizery. I don't know how people are not voting MM here. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 357] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 12:56 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff MM is doing everything he can to derail the case on Lold, gaslight me as much as he possibly can, tried to form a counterwagons toward towny people like Mizery. I don't know how people are not voting MM here. Currently ISOing MM now and I think he's probably just a villager so far. I don't agree with all his pushes but I do believe that he believes in them. There's a depth in his solving this game and he's frequently reevaluating his takes whereas his reads as a wolf seem much less fleshed out and static. I'll also admit to being in a similar boat to him wrt most of my reads rn being pretty close to null in spite of all the time I've spent ISOing lol. But yes, if Deb flips wolf I'd look at him again much more carefully. For now though, my ISO on MM isn't finished but I'd be much more likely to consider a Deb vote than a MM one. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 358] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 12:58 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If you're stuck for stuff to do PoD I'd be pretty interested in hearing your thoughts on the MM wolf game I linked though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 359] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 14th, 2023 12:59 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff How is this NAI? I guess I should've been more explicit in my reasoning: how does one know we're winning as town right now? Basically everyone is in various shades of yellow in my mind (although it's getting clearer atm, like with POD), so this statement feels VASTLY out of place and screams TMI. I could understand it if Mizery had super clear-cut reads in which she had great certainty (in which case I would be impressed), but that does not seem to be the case. for reference, here's the post: They don't know it they probably just feel confident enough to where they feel like town is winning. To respond to your next bit I do share the scumread on Mizery for the time being, yes, if you read my read list. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 360] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 01:01 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Reading through MM's town ISO in the Hypixel game for reference. The setup is cool, you've gotta be pretty skilled to balance something like that. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 361] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 14th, 2023 01:02 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ...actually, LYLO is literally tomorrow if we mislynch today powerofdeath My scumread on Mizery still stands and is actually stronger now, assuming POD flips scum What are you on about? Currently as it stands we are in a 6 v 2 scenario If we mislynch today, one mafia night kill (assuming mafia doesn't have a second killing ability), and you're in a 4v2 scenario. If you don't lynch tomorrow then it's now a 3v2 and then you're in a LYLO scenario -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 362] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 14th, 2023 01:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff What are you on about? Currently as it stands we are in a 6 v 2 scenario If we mislynch today, one mafia night kill (assuming mafia doesn't have a second killing ability), and you're in a 4v2 scenario. If you don't lynch tomorrow then it's now a 3v2 and then you're in a LYLO scenario The only way MM is correct and it turns to LYLO tomorrow is if there's a second mafia killing role, and based off of what he said it sounds like he *knows* that there is a second killing role. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 363] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 01:05 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Not one for picking apart semantics but I wanted to ask about this. Why add "when I'm town"? You've apparently never been mafia prior to this game, only a serial killer. Did you not do this as a SK? Most people play similarly as SK to how they do as town so that's not what I'd typically expect. Or what else did you mean by the wording? I specified that because if you're scum then there is a very simple reason why everyone seems to think differently than you do : you don't have the same goal nor the same information. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 364] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 01:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Lold and MM. MM is hard defending Lold while Lold is soft bussing MM but never quite voting them. I feel like theyre a team looool nah that's too big where's the catch -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 365] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 01:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff The only way MM is correct and it turns to LYLO tomorrow is if there's a second mafia killing role, and based off of what he said it sounds like he *knows* that there is a second killing role. Very unlikely mafia have a second killing role but pretty likely town has a chemist imo. But regardless, lylo is commonly used to refer to both lylo and mylo situations (you can see me using it later too) so it's just a semantics thing. Either way, town gets no more wrong kills. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 366] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 01:11 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff MM townier here than he was as town in the Hypixel game tbh. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 367] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 01:16 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff The latter. I'm going to go through my ISOs again, and reconfirm who I think we should lynch (it's between loldebite, miz, and pod) Why is MM out of here ? In your last readslist to date he was below PoD -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 368] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 01:18 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Why is MM out of here ? In your last readslist to date he was below PoD I have an incredibly hard time reading MM, he bamboozled me so hard in the spirits game I think it permanently damaged my ability to read him. I'm relying pretty much entirely on other people to read him, but I'll also look at him from an objective pro-town/anti-town standpoint -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 369] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 01:19 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff They don't know it they probably just feel confident enough to where they feel like town is winning. To respond to your next bit I do share the scumread on Mizery for the time being, yes, if you read my read list. Even just assuming it is just a sudden burst of confidence from Mizery, it doesn't fit with her general level of confidence when it comes to her reads; it's a dissonance. I am still not convinced it isn't just straight up TMI, though, and if I'm right and she's scum with POD, it would make sense, considering POD is being pushed (in which case town is actually winning). As for your scumread on Mizery, I'm more interested in your reasons than just in the statement of it, if that wasn't clear. What are you on about? Currently as it stands we are in a 6 v 2 scenario If we mislynch today, one mafia night kill (assuming mafia doesn't have a second killing ability), and you're in a 4v2 scenario. If you don't lynch tomorrow then it's now a 3v2 and then you're in a LYLO scenario I guess the more accurate term is MYLO, that is true; iirc, people in my last games used LYLO to refer to any situations where mislynching = losing, hence my use of it. It doesn't really matter, though, considering the idea remains (having a controversial slot creates doubt that scum can and will exploit, no matter what that slot's alignment actually is). Is there something I'm missing? The only way MM is correct and it turns to LYLO tomorrow is if there's a second mafia killing role, and based off of what he said it sounds like he *knows* that there is a second killing role. -____- I am almost insulted that you think I would make such a dumb mistake if I were scum lol. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 370] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 01:24 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff MM is doing everything he can to derail the case on Lold, gaslight me as much as he possibly can, tried to form a counterwagons toward towny people like Mizery. I don't know how people are not voting MM here. What case, though? Your vote on him was literally "I feel he's looking down on me" lol. If you do have an actual case in mind, lay it out instead of vaguely referring to it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 371] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 01:28 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I have an incredibly hard time reading MM, he bamboozled me so hard in the spirits game I think it permanently damaged my ability to read him. I'm relying pretty much entirely on other people to read him, but I'll also look at him from an objective pro-town/anti-town standpoint Ah yes, another game I legit have no memory of anymore lmao. At this point, though, I feel like I've been present enough for you to have some kind of opinion about me, so I expect not to be carefully treated like some kind of hot potato by you just because I pushed you early on. I guess we'll see on D2, though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 372] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 01:29 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Heads up as we are approaching EoD to please be wary of any mafia roles that could mess up your night actions before you submit. Pretty sure Janitor, Bartender and Tailor are the only roles that shouldn't submit as town, everything else should be overall beneficial if used wisely and shouldn't holster. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 373] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 01:30 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff okay going through pod's ISO rn. It's so strange that Varcron is his top town read, like, I get him being a town read, but at the same time, like, why not ika, who is the most obvious town I've ever seen. Or vittae, who's more or less taken up the role of town leader? also I'm not sure I get the whole pocket thing he was going on with lodebite, a swithced vote based off a perceived "gotchya" = a pocket? I do like the whole poking of other people via voting, I don't like how it switches back to loldebite trying to avoid an omgus? I do like pod reaction to MM's pressure suggesting lold and MM as a team? eeeehhhhhhhhh lemmie look at their ISOs and get back to you on that. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 374] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 01:37 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Missed this, sorry. I thought Deb's reaction [about his earlier paranoia] was towny as a snap judgment but I have very mixed opinions on the slot atm. They're another player I'm going through shortly. After seeing how he went through his reasoning, I'm leaning towards him being town more than scum, even though I'm still unsure; he looked genuine enough, but what scares me is that he could be genuinely overestimating how much people wanted him dead while being scum. Considering POD/Mizery, though, that's probably even less likely now. About interactions between Debbie and POD in your previous post: this definetly will be something to look into when one of them flips. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 375] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 01:37 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff powerofdeath gth right now who is the exact wolf team? Just the two names is fine. If anyone else feels like answering this question they're also welcome to. PoD & you -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 376] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 01:40 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Currently ISOing MM now and I think he's probably just a villager so far. I don't agree with all his pushes but I do believe that he believes in them. There's a depth in his solving this game and he's frequently reevaluating his takes whereas his reads as a wolf seem much less fleshed out and static. I'll also admit to being in a similar boat to him wrt most of my reads rn being pretty close to null in spite of all the time I've spent ISOing lol. But yes, if Deb flips wolf I'd look at him again much more carefully. For now though, my ISO on MM isn't finished but I'd be much more likely to consider a Deb vote than a MM one. I'm starting to get a little pissed at all those "if debbie flips scum" comments. So I'll take it on me to compensate : If MM flips scum pod looks much better IMO If pod flips scum then mizery looks better (because of #194) and vittae worse for the same reason If Mizery flips scum then PoD is mostly cleared, again because of #194) When I flip town MM will get free towncred (omg Paranoie back at it again !) !!! As it stands now I'm voting PoD if we do decide the lynch is better today -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 377] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 01:41 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff PoD & you You think I'm bussing PoD? Or we're just your top wolf reads individually? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 378] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 01:41 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I have an incredibly hard time reading MM, he bamboozled me so hard in the spirits game I think it permanently damaged my ability to read him. I'm relying pretty much entirely on other people to read him, but I'll also look at him from an objective pro-town/anti-town standpoint I see. I feel you (also, fuck sb) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 379] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 01:42 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff deathworlds mind giving me your account name in this game? https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/47427-S-FM-307-KRC-AGAIN! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 380] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 01:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff You think I'm bussing PoD? Or we're just your top wolf reads individually? yeah that's 100% based on you bussing PoD -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 381] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 01:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Maybe not 100%... Close, tho. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 382] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 01:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff There's probably only a max of 1 wolf in MM/deb/PoD actually. Pending a more thorough review of their interactions. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 383] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 01:47 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff deathworlds mind giving me your account name in this game? https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/47427-S-FM-307-KRC-AGAIN! ZKL3DJ big pink posts -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 384] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 01:47 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff yeah that's 100% based on you bussing PoD Interesting. So I strike you as the sort of player who would do that coming out of D1? How would I benefit from bussing PoD while I'm already townread? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 385] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 01:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ZKL3DJ big pink posts Ty -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 386] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 01:51 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff going through miz's iso I don't like how I was put near the bottom of her reads list also, going further into her reasoning regarding my scum read, why should I care that much that my top town reads thinks I'm town? that gains me very little in terms of info, I'd much rather focus my energy into my null and scum reads, whilst putting my town reads in a box and not waste precious brain juice on them. I do like the immediate vote of her top scum read. so in miz's universe, the scum list is one of the following: pod/varcron pod/me loldebite/varcron loldebite/me I'm not so hot on any of these lists tbh. varcron is a town lean for me, and I'm not scum. oh yeah the cit claim, after it was said that the scummiest people should claim last, that's real goofy of you mizery, you're def not a top town read here. Mizery's breakdown of MM's reads is kinda goofy. All except your most confident of town reads should be "pending" need to learn how to put town into boxes so you don't waste brain juice on them. then scum reading MM more. based off a perceived goofy reads list, and an omgus vote that I think I missed? overall mizery is pretty goofy, and I don't like any of her scenario's for scum teams. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 387] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 14th, 2023 01:54 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff going through miz's iso I don't like how I was put near the bottom of her reads list also, going further into her reasoning regarding my scum read, why should I care that much that my top town reads thinks I'm town? that gains me very little in terms of info, I'd much rather focus my energy into my null and scum reads, whilst putting my town reads in a box and not waste precious brain juice on them. I do like the immediate vote of her top scum read. so in miz's universe, the scum list is one of the following: pod/varcron pod/me loldebite/varcron loldebite/me I'm not so hot on any of these lists tbh. varcron is a town lean for me, and I'm not scum. oh yeah the cit claim, after it was said that the scummiest people should claim last, that's real goofy of you mizery, you're def not a top town read here. Mizery's breakdown of MM's reads is kinda goofy. All except your most confident of town reads should be "pending" need to learn how to put town into boxes so you don't waste brain juice on them. then scum reading MM more. based off a perceived goofy reads list, and an omgus vote that I think I missed? overall mizery is pretty goofy, and I don't like any of her scenario's for scum teams. My brain is firing towards either a MM or Mizery lynch. I still don't really like Loldebite but I think they've dug themselves a bit out of the hole they were in previously in my eyes. My only pause is that I have a feeling PoD could be pocketting me. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 388] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 01:55 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Death/Miz have high w/w potential based on Death's read list post. Will look at it more bit taking a short break. Interested what other people think of that interaction though as Death is handling Miz extremely differently to every other player and seems hyperaware of small things she's done that I wouldn't expect most villagers to be aware of about another villager. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 389] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 14th, 2023 01:55 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I do think there is a scum between MM/PoD and I also think there's a scum in Loldebite/Mizery tbh Ikarus is town in every case, same with deathworlds imo. Vittae after reading more of their posts I like quite a lot too. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 390] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 01:59 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Interesting. So I strike you as the sort of player who would do that coming out of D1? How would I benefit from bussing PoD while I'm already townread? In the context where you're new to the site & PoD is a returning player, yes I think you'd both agree that this is a viable strategy if PoD gets flak near EoD. Which he is I think your initial vote would then be used as basically extra cred at little to no cost. Wait. You never actually unvoted them. I was convinced you had at one point. This all seems much less plausible now, bussing THAT hard on D1 is a bit much. Too bad, I liked the idea. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 391] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 02:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff going through MM's posts in order+1 is pro town -1 is not pro-town 0 is NAI 0 -RVS +1 - prompting other players 0 - nothingburger post +1 - analyzing early game mizery and saying "hey contribute more" 0 - some nothingburger responses, and criticizing my setup speculation, SAD! 0 - debate regarding the merit of setup speculation (it's FINE MM) and some coaching of ikar +1 - pointing out that objectively in a vacuum, loldebite's setup solving is better than my setup speculation. -1 - more coaching of ikar, saying varcron's response was dogwater then refusing to elaborate until later 0 - nothingburger post 0 - nothingburger post +1 - critiquing PoD's reads +1 - going further into the percieved gotchya I don't have time to continue my point by point iso right now, except for the nothingburger posts, I think I like MM here -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 392] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 02:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff going through miz's posts, i don't think I like her significantly any more or less than I did before just wanted to clarify that -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 393] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 02:05 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah MM has also redeemed himself to my eyes (good job, nice pocketing & fuck you just in case - Paranoie). Miz I have to be honest I struggle to read -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 394] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 02:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Reading through MM's town ISO in the Hypixel game for reference. The setup is cool, you've gotta be pretty skilled to balance something like that. Lmfao -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 395] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 02:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff marshmallowmarshal -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 396] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 02:14 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deathworlds I think this is a hit actually. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 397] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 02:17 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Woaw woaw woaw slow down for a second, wtf ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 398] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 02:17 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deathworlds I think this is a hit actually. You what? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 399] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 02:18 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Nonono i am not going to be chinese fire drilled right when I'm about to go to work -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 400] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 02:19 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deathworlds I think this is a hit actually. Explain yourself -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 401] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 02:21 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Not going to respond to imdividual queries just give me time to post thoughts. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 402] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 02:22 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deathworlds I think this is a hit actually. PogChamp this take is about as hot as the probable content of the cup in your avatar Care to explain? I actually kind of omitted Deathworlds from my picture with Miz/POD here -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 403] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 02:22 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Death/Miz have high w/w potential based on Death's read list post. Will look at it more bit taking a short break. Interested what other people think of that interaction though as Death is handling Miz extremely differently to every other player and seems hyperaware of small things she's done that I wouldn't expect most villagers to be aware of about another villager. Is this your reasoning? Balderdash, you expect someone that's going through a point by point of someone's iso who is someone that scum reads the reviewer to not be hyperaware of what they're doing? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 404] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 02:23 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff marshmallowmarshal hey btw I dont think this counted because you forgot a space between his name -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 405] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 02:24 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If you're stuck for stuff to do PoD I'd be pretty interested in hearing your thoughts on the MM wolf game I linked though. I mean I can read it after work but it will be night time -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 406] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 02:25 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff First of all addressing the PoE component of my vote and suspicion on Deathworlds. I think there is max 1 wolf in PoD/Deb/MM from mutual interactions between each that suggest they aren't w/w (although these need to be checked more rigorously). My next person in the PoE would be Miz, who I think has extremely high w/w potential with Deathworlds which I will bring up in more detail in a moment (Miz is more likely just a villager in a vacuum imo). I don't think anybody else is a wolf who I haven't named with a reasonably strong degree of confidence. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 407] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 02:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff What case, though? Your vote on him was literally "I feel he's looking down on me" lol. If you do have an actual case in mind, lay it out instead of vaguely referring to it. I am voting you not them after all -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 408] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 02:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Who is Debbie anyway? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 409] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 02:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Is this your reasoning? Balderdash, you expect someone that's going through a point by point of someone's iso who is someone that scum reads the reviewer to not be hyperaware of what they're doing? The interaction itself is an extremely w/w interaction but no it's not the reason for my vote in of itself. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 410] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 02:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Who is Debbie anyway? It's-a-me -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 411] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 02:31 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff The interaction itself is an extremely w/w interaction but no it's not the reason for my vote in of itself. Screw you vittae, I'm not scum. Mizery I'm voting between any of miz, loldebite, and pod, I refuse to be the lynch today -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 412] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 02:31 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff the votes are so spreadout its sad -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 413] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 02:32 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff First of all addressing the PoE component of my vote and suspicion on Deathworlds. I think there is max 1 wolf in PoD/Deb/MM from mutual interactions between each that suggest they aren't w/w (although these need to be checked more rigorously). My next person in the PoE would be Miz, who I think has extremely high w/w potential with Deathworlds which I will bring up in more detail in a moment (Miz is more likely just a villager in a vacuum imo). I don't think anybody else is a wolf who I haven't named with a reasonably strong degree of confidence. So your argument for voting DW is that they are likely scum because mizery is likely scum ? Yet that implies you think mizery being scum is more likely than any of PoD/MM & me being scum, correct ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 414] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 02:32 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff First of all addressing the PoE component of my vote and suspicion on Deathworlds. I think there is max 1 wolf in PoD/Deb/MM from mutual interactions between each that suggest they aren't w/w (although these need to be checked more rigorously). My next person in the PoE would be Miz, who I think has extremely high w/w potential with Deathworlds which I will bring up in more detail in a moment (Miz is more likely just a villager in a vacuum imo). I don't think anybody else is a wolf who I haven't named with a reasonably strong degree of confidence. I also don't think that MM is a wolf. If he's a wolf them he's playing townies than his town games even if there's no single clearing thing he's done this game. While I have scumread PoD and erred a bunch on Deb but mostly on the lower side of null I've also had a large number of what I'd call "cold feet moments" for each. That's me basically just saying that I have an increasingly low expectation for either of them to flip wolf in a vacuum (although they're still in my PoE and Deb is getting an ISO asap). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 415] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 02:34 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff So your argument for voting DW is that they are likely scum because mizery is likely scum ? Yet that implies you think mizery being scum is more likely than any of PoD/MM & me being scum, correct ? No. I'm saying that I think the wolf team is one in Death/Miz + one in Death/Miz/Deb/PoD basically and I think Death is more likely than Miz. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 416] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 02:34 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I am voting you not them after all Yes... because I am supposedly defending them as their scummate, right? Now you're basically saying you do not actually have a case at all against them? https://media.tenor.com/RmPGSCMo4PAAAAAd/hm.gif -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 417] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 02:35 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If your vote lands on mizery first, I guess that's now your top scum read ? okay going through pod's ISO rn. It's so strange that Varcron is his top town read, like, I get him being a town read, but at the same time, like, why not ika, who is the most obvious town I've ever seen. Or vittae, who's more or less taken up the role of town leader? also I'm not sure I get the whole pocket thing he was going on with lodebite, a swithced vote based off a perceived "gotchya" = a pocket? I do like the whole poking of other people via voting, I don't like how it switches back to loldebite trying to avoid an omgus? I do like pod reaction to MM's pressure suggesting lold and MM as a team? eeeehhhhhhhhh lemmie look at their ISOs and get back to you on that. If you can find the time to get back about me & MM, I'd appreciate since we're the last 2 of the quatuor but you've not said as much about us as you have about the other 2 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 418] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 02:36 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I think that there's no more than 1 wolf in deb/MM/PoD still so by that logic there's always at least 1 in Miz/Death/ika/Vacron and the latter two I think are just town. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 419] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 02:37 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff No. I'm saying that I think the wolf team is one in Death/Miz + one in Death/Miz/Deb/PoD basically and I think Death is more likely than Miz. Wait did I misunderstand ? Doesn't your suspicion on DW come from miz/dw being S/S ? If so and if miz is next in your PoE as you stated, why dw ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 420] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 02:38 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Not necessarily stuck to voting Death at EoD though. PoD is also on the table for me. Maaaaybe Deb if I open their ISO and it's way worse than I remember. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 421] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 02:39 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Oh and Debbie = Loldebite, for the record (I assumed "vold" meant Debbie, despite the fact it looks more like Voldemort). Screw you vittae, I'm not scum. Mizery I'm voting between any of miz, loldebite, and pod, I refuse to be the lynch today I've been looking at your ISO to look for stuff related to Mizery, and this is actually the first thing I find to be somewhat SvS-looking - it's almost textbook distancing, actually, to the point it's almost too textbooky to actually be distancing. Other than that, though, I think I fail to see what Vittae claims to have seen, and stand in curiosity here. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 422] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 02:41 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If your vote lands on mizery first, I guess that's now your top scum read ? If you can find the time to get back about me & MM, I'd appreciate since we're the last 2 of the quatuor but you've not said as much about us as you have about the other 2 I've always scum read miz, and my iso of her didn't help, since I don't have the time to do a full ISO on you, I am more confident that miz is scum right now than you are. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 423] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 02:43 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Wait did I misunderstand ? Doesn't your suspicion on DW come from miz/dw being S/S ? If so and if miz is next in your PoE as you stated, why dw ? No but it's confusing how I came to it so I'll explain. I stumbled across that w/w post and thought "wow this is the most w/w you'll ever see a post be in a game" (can explain further but not relevant rn) and then I decided to consider Death more strongly since they were 3rd from bottom in my reads list and I was losing confidence on my bottom 2 flipping w and realised that Death was way more likely a wolf than I gave them credit for. So you're mistaken but it was that post that inspired me to look at Death more closely. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 424] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 02:43 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Oh my god how is an iso s/s? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 425] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 02:44 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I've always scum read miz, and my iso of her didn't help, since I don't have the time to do a full ISO on you, I am more confident that miz is scum right now than you are. Ah, you couldn't. Dang it. And thanks vittæ for clarifying -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 426] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 02:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Just to be clear I do intend on doing another iso on you loldebite, if everyone will recall I did a point by point of loldebites posts in my first reads list -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 427] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 02:46 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm just on mobile and about to go to a meeting then cook dinner afterwards, so I'm a bit chuffed that vitae has decided to make me the spotlight at this exact time -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 428] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 02:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Oh and Debbie = Loldebite, for the record (I assumed "vold" meant Debbie, despite the fact it looks more like Voldemort). I've been looking at your ISO to look for stuff related to Mizery, and this is actually the first thing I find to be somewhat SvS-looking - it's almost textbook distancing, actually, to the point it's almost too textbooky to actually be distancing. Other than that, though, I think I fail to see what Vittae claims to have seen, and stand in curiosity here. To save myself typing (because preflight w/w reads aren't super relevant and we always have wills that I can write stuff in if need be): Point 5 on this guide is useful https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/34953-28-Miscellaneous-Tips-for-Villaging-%28by-ladd%29 And lok at Death's read list and look at how they treat Miz completely different to every other player on that read list to the degree that it really stands out + non committal wolfread + inexplicably talking TO mizery when writing reads on Mizery both in the reads list and the ISO but not doing that for anyone else (and also the ISO on Miz having a very poor / inconclusive conclusion). This is otoh so might be minor inaccuracies with what I just said but getting loads of qs rn. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 429] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 02:49 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm just on mobile and about to go to a meeting then cook dinner afterwards, so I'm a bit chuffed that vitae has decided to make me the spotlight at this exact time Sorry, I've been working through ISOs for like 4+ straight hours and getting to you took a while. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 430] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 02:54 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If you'd look at the post in question you'll see that mizery makes up the bottom few of the responses of the quotes I responded too, AND their reads list was last right before my reads list. This has nothing to do with me treating them differently, rather it is the fact that they happened to be on my mind more so when I was compiling my reads list. Timing was the key factor there, not me supposedly being scum with her -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 431] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 02:58 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I got my meeting shortly, so don't expect to hear from me for the next half hour or so, try not to throw by turbolynchi ng me off of a misinterpretation of my first reads list -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 432] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 02:59 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff okay yeah you know what, takes me a bit to get up and start actually reading the game, I don't do meta reads, so it takes me a while to build up enough evidence/gut for my reads. Mass claim on d2 is probably the only way we win this game if we mislynch here. yo letsgo, the first readslist of the game, not exactly thrilled to be near the bottom of your list. I get why people hate on mech discussion, but that won't ever stop me from talking about it, also, I in general, agree with your position on Vittae here, strong opening, asking questions, generally pro-town. Ikarus is a town read for me as well, for much of the same reasons, none of that "haha im totally not nervous to play some mafia right now" vibes you get from newer scum. Ehhh memeing on entry isn't pro-town that's for sure, but personally, I wouldn't go so hard as to say it is damning either, closer to NAI than it is to a scum read imo. I consider the whole thing as NAI, might be reading into it too much. Hey now, there's a good shot that varcron is cit, or scum really. If you think about it, useless town pr claim is a good claim for all allignments. scum could be like: "oh hey, I'm a town power role! one of the few limited roles available, now a real town power will be forced to counterclaim in the event of mass claim and we can 1v1 in a one mislynched allowed setup, also, lookout/scout can suck it!" citizen could be like: "Oh hey, I'm a town power role! Night kill me instead of a real town power role. a powerful town power role could be like: "Hey, I'm a weak town power role, don't hit me scum!" a useless tpr could be like: "Hey, I'm a useless tpr! (I am making this claim for WIFOM reasons Kappa ) I too am hoping for more content from pod. yup. scum makes up 1/4th of the entire population, if we can increase odds of a random lynch hitting scum by a significant enough margin (right now it's 20%), then i'd say it would be worth it. loldebite, could you clarify what exactly you didn't like about MM's last post? This is poor logic, citizens outnumber scum in almost every game, that doesn't mean we should let our power roles die every single game. it is quite disappointing indeed, an increase of 20% up to like 33% (if I understood correctly based off of scum not both claiming tpr) is not particularly significant, nor an increase of odds I would like to out all the mechanical leverage we hold at night. agreed. mm seems to be quite contentious for people, appearing at the bottom of some peoples scum lists so far, and in the town lean areas as well. You scum leaning pod right now makes me sad, mans just a bit rusty yeah? I'd hope he didn't roll scum because I'd like to play with him more. You have all these town brownie points for me, but put me in the null slot? I think varcron's claim is smart regardless of alignment, and therefor is NAI. I think I understand what you're getting at right now, kinda lurky comments, being non-comitial in day chat. Reminder, we are in the first 12ish hours of the game, some people need a bit of time to get the ball rolling, I in particular like to think I have a much stronger D2 than a D1. Overall I like this list, I'm not so sure about putting pod in the very bottom and leaving me as a null at this stage of the game seems like a reasonable thing that you would do since you are not familiar with my d1 play. I really don't get the hype around RVS, is it meant to try and catch scum via vote count analysis? wouldn't that be better done when there are actual wagons being formed? Performative forsmorative, pro town behavior is pro town, and me tricking you into liking you as scum just because you happen to like walls is a skill issue, effort-posting is not alignment indicative. Regardless of alignment it is everyone's jobs to try to at least appear town, so they aren't being focused on being the days elimination, not alignment indicative. yup, wolf = scum = mafia = bad guys Actually I made it after the game started, which is a rarity for me but I originally had plans around SoD so I didn't have time to setup a big setup analysis wall like I tend to do. +1, I think objectively, debbie's mechanical talk is more pro-town than mine, solving the game =/= solving the setup. I will defend you on this point today, but no longer than that, hope to see some scum hunting from you soon. I'm still malding about the fact that my role-card that I created for that game didn't even get a chance to do anything. Ehhhhhhhhh this seems like a stretch to me, especially considering what vittae pointed out just below. Vittae isn't the lynch today, saying that now. make better content then Kappa and with that we have another reads list and a vote for loldebite. With everything in mind here is everyone's reads list as I saw them. Mizery's: Mizery ikarusdk Vittae Marshmallow Marshall Loldebite powerofdeath Deathworlds Varcron loldebite's: Ikarusdk Varcron Vittae PoD deathworlds mizery MM Vittae's: ikarusdk Varcron Marshmallow Marshall* Mizery* Deathworlds (Null) Loldebite powerofdeath Mizery's 2nd list Mizery ikarusdk Vittae Marshmallow Marshall Deathworlds Varcron powerofdeath Loldebite Here's my list: Deathworlds Ikarusdk Vittae Varcron PowerofDeath MM Mizery Loldebite Breakdown: Deathworlds: I am town. Ikarusdk: This mans gives me ceko first game town vibes, and I could read ceko pretty well back in the day, this is my strongest town read. Vittae: Vittae is asking all the right questions, getting meta reads, prompting people, breaking down interactions, this is pro-town behavior. Varcron: This revolves mostly around the claim he made, which while I think can be made by anyone of any alignment, I can see it more often than not, coming from a town perspective, especially as the first claim made. There is a shot we're being bamboozled so hard by an unprompted claim from scum, but I don't think that is the case here. PoD: Mans hasn't made a lot of content yet, but I suspect mans is just rusty, and is trying to get the gears to turn again, I suspect town, but intentional lurking is always a possibility. MM: MM has always been an enigma to me, and any attempts to read MM feel off, and I feel like he wraps all of his content in multiple layers of WIFOM that go over my head. I'll get a better feel for MM throughout the day, but this read I have the least confidence in. Mizery: This is a scum lean pending a couple answered that I might have missed, 1.) Varcron and I are were at the bottom of your list near the start, but pod and loldebite flew right by us to be the new bottom, what makes you think pod and loldebite are more likely to be scum? 2.) What caused MM to go into your town reads? Also in general it doesn't feel like your engaging too much with other players, responding such, you pumped out a couple of read lists but there's hardly any engagement from you to other players regarding game-related subjects. Loldebite: their vote on vittae is goofy, and while publicly doing the math for a hypothetical d1 claim is "pro-town" if it doesn't help us or actually provide a plan then it's a nothingburger. Outside of that setup speculation, what else has been done from loldebite? -sorry guys I missed SOD -talk about old games -ask about skips -talk about how mafia don't get cits -provide a read list with a lot of talk about "feeling" -suggest that tpr are expendable in a hypothetical d1 claim world -provide some responses to your reads list -do math -talk about math more -talk about MM's meta (also wtf I totally see MM as a powerwolfer) -provide games for meta reading -say something was funny -wow an actual post talking about interactions between different players, crazy!!! -poke at PoD's inactivity -say ika might be faking their obv genuine reactions -get confused by a vote from pod -jump out at a very choice misread of vittae's post. I'm not really buying that loldebite is town right now. loldebite Read on ikarus is a false equivalence, a logical fallacy that wolves love to use to prop up reads. Townread on me for pro town behavior which is obviously pretty NAI. Varcron read is based on mech. PoD read I've already commented earlier is giving him way way way too much slack to the degree that I feel like it's TMI. MM read is a long way of saying null. Miz read I've already said is very off and noticeably different to the others. It's otherwise just a fine-ish non committal scumread if we assume Miz is v. The read on deb is fine if not a bit hypocritical but I don't think that's scum indicative. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 433] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I got my meeting shortly, so don't expect to hear from me for the next half hour or so, try not to throw by turbolynchi ng me off of a misinterpretation of my first reads list If it was because I thought you and Miz were exactly w/w then I'd just vote Miz as there's actually support there. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 434] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:01 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I could so use an extra 24 hours here. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 435] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I am fine with thunderdoming mm because I will win -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 436] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Haha I'm goofy -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 437] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff wtf miz -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 438] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff you ARE goofy -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 439] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 14th, 2023 03:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Mizery This lynch benefits the town the most imo I will not be here for EOD, as I have an appointment I need to go to. GL all, that's where my vote will stay. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 440] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:04 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff why would you thunderdome MM of all people ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 441] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:06 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Will switch back to PoD if nothing comes of the Death wagon. Really do not want a MM wagon today. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 442] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:06 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah reads are always pending but most were so in the way of like, wishy-washy Waffling Hedgey Non-commital Personally I like the majority of my reads to appear as definite in my mind to others because it gives me more info on how they react to that than when I give unfiltered meandering thoughts on their alignment. Not only that but like, it obviously leaves room open for people to not only assume how you think about them but also gives them the ability to appeal to you better when you aren't definitive -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 443] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:07 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Not sure what I want to do wrt Miz though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 444] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Miz please vote someone who isn't MM. I'll vote you over MM happily. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 445] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff First of all addressing the PoE component of my vote and suspicion on Deathworlds. I think there is max 1 wolf in PoD/Deb/MM from mutual interactions between each that suggest they aren't w/w (although these need to be checked more rigorously). My next person in the PoE would be Miz, who I think has extremely high w/w potential with Deathworlds which I will bring up in more detail in a moment (Miz is more likely just a villager in a vacuum imo). I don't think anybody else is a wolf who I haven't named with a reasonably strong degree of confidence. Vittae switching so comfortably onto me after confidently saying I'm a townread with better meta and familiarity with me is a bad look btw just for you all when I die He sees I'm more of a ML this game and so calls me fourth in his "poe" of 3 that he thinks has one wolf -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 446] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:09 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Miz please vote someone who isn't MM. I'll vote you over MM happily. Sad to see you wolf on your first game back -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 447] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 14th, 2023 03:10 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Welp I feel useless, I had to be away from the forum for about 16 hours or so, which is not ideal at all since i only just got back and have less than 1 hour left till EoD. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 448] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:10 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff It's-a-me M-mario? Is th-that you? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 449] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:11 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Sad to see you wolf on your first game back If I was a wolf on my first game back we both know it would be Vittae (10) and not Vittae (100). This is still my low effort alt. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 450] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:11 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff why would you thunderdome MM of all people ? Idk someone mentioned it and so it's like why not man -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 451] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 14th, 2023 03:11 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff The votes are so spread, must mean the wolves are really good.....I think the best thing for me to do is get some pairing and anti pairing in my head and see if that makes sense. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 452] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:11 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If I was a wolf on my first game back we both know it would be Vittae (10) and not Vittae (100). This is still my low effort alt. Silly boy -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 453] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:12 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff marshmallow marshall -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 454] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:12 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Welp I feel useless, I had to be away from the forum for about 16 hours or so, which is not ideal at all since i only just got back and have less than 1 hour left till EoD. no time to complain go go go -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 455] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:13 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff M-mario? Is th-that you? Yes ! WA-HA ! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 456] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:13 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I mean if more people voted death that'd be fine too -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 457] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:13 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Little Debbie is just town here smh -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 458] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 14th, 2023 03:13 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff no time to complain go go go I'm here now, quickly reading up on post... or would it be better for me to skip right now since I am not informed as much as I should be -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 459] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:13 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Idk someone mentioned it and so it's like why not man Someone mentioned you in a thunderdome with MM ??? DA FUQ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 460] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:14 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff There's a hypixeler with the alt lolbit I think it's funny -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 461] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:14 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ikarus can be a wolf but I don't think he is but like he could be -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 462] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:14 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Vittae switching so comfortably onto me after confidently saying I'm a townread with better meta and familiarity with me is a bad look btw just for you all when I die He sees I'm more of a ML this game and so calls me fourth in his "poe" of 3 that he thinks has one wolf I've been pretty consistent on you being a weak townread for dubious meta reasons all game though? You've trended down slightly but you've also done basically nothing town AI that I didn't mention right at the start if D1. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 463] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:15 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also the game is still easy and it's still death/pod but we can kill me first like I'm fine with that because if there's a killing role they'd probably just kill me in the night -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 464] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:15 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Silly boy You still have a long wei to go. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 465] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:16 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm here now, quickly reading up on post... or would it be better for me to skip right now since I am not informed as much as I should be Depends on how fast you can read :D If you're not sure you'll make it, maybe read backwards ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 466] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 14th, 2023 03:16 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Quick reassessment, My scumread on Loldebite is pretty weak and relied on timing than real scumread. If we vote Mizery/MM and mislynch I would've voted PoD. I am now leaning towards MM being town. Later posts by Mizery makes me suspicious, although given lack of time I have I don't know I can take my time to explain. -vote Powerofdeath -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 467] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 14th, 2023 03:17 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff powerfodeath -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 468] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:17 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff There's a hypixeler with the alt lolbit I think it's funny Yeah I've been asked if I was/knew them before. I don't. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 469] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:17 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Tl:dr Miz's play here is strongly resembles her "tryhard" towngame (which I've never seen her get close to replicating as a wolf) and is very different to her typical "tryhard" wolf game so she's proooobably just town, she just doesn't have any one specific clearing thing that I could use to lock her in as a high confidence read. If this isn't an actual strong townread idk what is but I'm not tryharding because the game is easy so like you're wrong on that but also this is a strong townread despite what you say here -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 470] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:17 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Little Debbie is just town here smh I haven't had time to ISO Deb and unfortunately not going to get chance to do it before EoD buy I'm pretty happy not voting them today. I'm just really fucking burned out of ISOs I've spent about 6 hours today doing ISOs on and off lol. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 471] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 14th, 2023 03:18 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If I'm wrong about PoD My next day focous will be on Mizery/Loldebite -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 472] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:18 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff You still have a long wei to go. Sad that you couldn't find a natural way to make that pun and had to use it in a sentence that doesn't make any sense in context unless you're speaking down to me and I know you'd never to that to me my little vittae -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 473] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:19 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If I'm wrong about PoD My next day focous will be on Mizery/Loldebite Damn two townies bad look but also fine look since he's a wolf -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 474] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 14th, 2023 03:19 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff powerfodeath just realised the typo powerofdeath -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 475] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 03:19 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If I'm wrong about PoD My next day focous will be on Mizery/Loldebite You should be focusing on MM not Mizery -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 476] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:19 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Little Debbie is just town here smh Haha ! You called me Debbie! YOU WON'T POCKET ME THAT EASILY Yeah that was paranoie again Also you're actually tied with MM now, what the actual fuck. Is there really no way skipping is better if we're THAT spread out ?.. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 477] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:19 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I haven't had time to ISO Deb and unfortunately not going to get chance to do it before EoD buy I'm pretty happy not voting them today. I'm just really fucking burned out of ISOs I've spent about 6 hours today doing ISOs on and off lol. Bad little vittae. *smacks hand* -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 478] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 14th, 2023 03:20 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Damn two townies bad look but also fine look since he's a wolf That does not mean I won't look at others :) It just means I didn't have time to look at you and lol properly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 479] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:20 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If this isn't an actual strong townread idk what is but I'm not tryharding because the game is easy so like you're wrong on that but also this is a strong townread despite what you say here The lot of os in probably were supposed to make it obvious that the read was dubious. I don't think you're likely a wolf unless you're exactly with Death still -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 480] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:21 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Did I already mention that pod townreading me sounds like tmi but like badly because no one else is townreading me or was that someone else -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 481] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 14th, 2023 03:21 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Since most town declare me as town, and there is no confirmed PR present in day 1, i will probably die. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 482] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:21 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Do y'all think scum is currently voting together and if not why wouldn't they -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 483] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:21 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff The lot of os in probably were supposed to make it obvious that the read was dubious. I don't think you're likely a wolf unless you're exactly with Death still See that's just a world I can't see in my wildest dreams and I don't get how you see it at all -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 484] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:22 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also I know you all want a town kp to kill me tonight but you really don't it wouldn't be great just FYI thought I'd make that clear -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 485] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:22 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Since most town declare me as town, and there is no confirmed PR present in day 1, i will probably die. Nah bro, you'll be fine. Just close your eyes... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 486] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 14th, 2023 03:23 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Do y'all think scum is currently voting together and if not why wouldn't they Unless there's already a town voting along with wolf, and the other one is afraid to hammer it in case it brings them attention at the last second..I doubt it though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 487] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:23 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Haha ! You called me Debbie! YOU WON'T POCKET ME THAT EASILY Yeah that was paranoie again Also you're actually tied with MM now, what the actual fuck. Is there really no way skipping is better if we're THAT spread out ?.. Your chocolate cupcakes rival hostess in a way no one else can compete -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 488] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 14th, 2023 03:24 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Do y'all think scum is currently voting together and if not why wouldn't they and if so, you can say it is pod/mizery, varcron/death -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 489] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:24 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff What a boring vc deathworlds -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 490] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:25 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff See that's just a world I can't see in my wildest dreams and I don't get how you see it at all I am much less sold on it than it appears people just grilled me on it because I voted death straight after for mostly unrelated reasons. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 491] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:25 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Your chocolate cupcakes rival hostess in a way no one else can compete I... Thanks ? Expected that to be a quote ngl -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 492] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:25 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I am much less sold on it than it appears people just grilled me on it because I voted death straight after for mostly unrelated reasons. Straight after what -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 493] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also I know you all want a town kp to kill me tonight but you really don't it wouldn't be great just FYI thought I'd make that clear Signal boost -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 494] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Just saying I came out with pushing death which prompted him to turn on me so really any way you look at that interaction I'm v here -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 495] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 14th, 2023 03:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I would've much preferred having Varcron as deciding vote xD -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 496] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Straight after what I said you were likely w/w -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 497] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 03:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff deathworlds is one of my null read. I am not hanging Mizery So like, I'm forced to switch to survive here. deathworlds -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 498] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff The wolves not caring about these wagons are lame -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 499] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Damn plot twist -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 500] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Just saying I came out with pushing death which prompted him to turn on me so really any way you look at that interaction I'm v here My read on you has conveniently snapped back to calling you town anyway so -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 501] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:28 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah we aren't hanging Miz or MM today go between Death and PoD -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 502] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:29 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also who tf commented on scum hammering today that'd be so stupid lol -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 503] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:29 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff *commence scum hammer* -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 504] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:29 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'll switch to PoD if Miz is at risk of going over though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 505] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 14th, 2023 03:30 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I did, hence 'I doubt it' lol but i can imagine that happening at some point in the history of mafia -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 506] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 03:31 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'll switch to PoD if Miz is at risk of going over though. wouldnt that make mafia vote Miz to force you to switch? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 507] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:31 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also who on earth suggested tomorrow would be lylo 7/2 6/2 4/2 Like at worst it's mylo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 508] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 14th, 2023 03:31 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff if death flips town, who would you focus on? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 509] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:32 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff wouldnt that make mafia vote Miz to force you to switch? Is this towny -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 510] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:32 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Miz is town and shouldn't be touched with harmful night actions. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 511] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:33 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also who on earth suggested tomorrow would be lylo 7/2 6/2 4/2 Like at worst it's mylo IIRC it was MM, but he's said that he uses both interchangeably -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 512] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:34 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Friendly night actions are acceptable though -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 513] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:34 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Was I wolfreading varcron I don't remember -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 514] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 03:34 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff IIRC it was MM, but he's said that he uses both interchangeably MM assume that there is a night killing role along with mafia role. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 515] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:35 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff My thoughts on death p much boil down to iioa -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 516] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:35 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff wouldnt that make mafia vote Miz to force you to switch? The only people voting rn who could are me, you and Miz and none of those three are likely to respond to my post by voting Miz lol -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 517] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:36 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Is this towny Slightly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 518] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:36 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff What if it's ikarus and he slipped wolf with varcron by saying there weren't any claimed prs today when he hopped in thread -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 519] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 03:36 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff The only people voting rn who could are me, you and Miz and none of those three are likely to respond to my post by voting Miz lol Lold havent voted, and I bet you Lold would vote deathworlds to force you to switch, then snipe hammer on me -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 520] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:36 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff if death flips town, who would you focus on? PoD probably But would rather go death today -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 521] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:37 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff The only people voting rn who could are me, you and Miz and none of those three are likely to respond to my post by voting Miz lol Don't be so sure.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 522] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:37 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff MM assume that there is a night killing role along with mafia role. Yeah but even with an extra kill landing on town, we're at mylo not lylo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 523] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 14th, 2023 03:37 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff What if it's ikarus and he slipped wolf with varcron by saying there weren't any claimed prs today when he hopped in thread If it is me, good job to me :D I said there was no confirmed PR didn't i? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 524] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 03:38 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah but even with an extra kill landing on town, we're at mylo not lylo wdym? 6v2, lynch me, 5v2, mafia kill, 4v2, killing role kill, 3v2 we enter day 2 with 3v2 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 525] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:38 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Lold havent voted, and I bet you Lold would vote deathworlds to force you to switch, then snipe hammer on me I think any funny business like that would be pretty outing, especially since you if town are easy to push rn anyway -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 526] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:38 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If it is me, good job to me :D I said there was no confirmed PR didn't i? It's not possible for there to be a confirmed pr on d1 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 527] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:38 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Lold havent voted, and I bet you Lold would vote deathworlds to force you to switch, then snipe hammer on me I claimed earlier that I'd be voting you and I stand by that Also, weren't you there when it was said that hammering as scum is d u m b ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 528] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 03:39 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I claimed earlier that I'd be voting you and I stand by that Also, weren't you there when it was said that hammering as scum is d u m b ? I hammer as scum all the time, not sure why its dumb -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 529] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 03:39 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff PowerofDeath I'm sorry ma he was my dog I'll do it. I'm not going to be mislynched today -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 530] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:39 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff wdym? 6v2, lynch me, 5v2, mafia kill, 4v2, killing role kill, 3v2 we enter day 2 with 3v2 Wow I suck at math, bad -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 531] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:40 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb please vote. NOT on Miz. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 532] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:40 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I claimed earlier that I'd be voting you and I stand by that Also, weren't you there when it was said that hammering as scum is d u m b ? He's talking a hammer in the metaphorical sense it seems, in the games-without-maj sense, it seems -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 533] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 03:41 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Mizery This lynch benefits the town the most imo I will not be here for EOD, as I have an appointment I need to go to. GL all, that's where my vote will stay. Okay seems like I'm dead today, Lold is hammering me -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 534] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:41 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Fucking hell -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 535] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 14th, 2023 03:41 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff It's not possible for there to be a confirmed pr on d1 Yeah I know, maybe I hsould've said 'claimed PR' instead of 'confirmed PR'. Not a slip as a wolf though. A newbie mistake. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 536] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:41 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ok so PoD is going over then? I don't mind that. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 537] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:41 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I have consolidated the wagons, but at what cost -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 538] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 03:41 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Seriously though, vote Marshmallow Marshall tomorrow -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 539] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:42 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Find out in 19 minutes...I think? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 540] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 03:42 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I am citizen btw not that it matter -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 541] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:42 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff powerofdeath I guess I should land a vote somewhere -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 542] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:42 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah I know, maybe I hsould've said 'claimed PR' instead of 'confirmed PR'. Not a slip as a wolf though. A newbie mistake. And yet we did have a claimed pr -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 543] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:43 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Is this strawmanning? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 544] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:43 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff And this probably gives us most intel -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 545] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 03:43 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Doing my best to exist for the last ~20 mins that are left Friendly night actions are acceptable though Was I wolfreading varcron I don't remember Mizery feels way too comfortable/confident/happy for this EoD in which there isn't really THAT MUCH public info; we're really just getting into the interesting part of the game. Like, the posts above and a bunch of other half trolly one-liners are definetly NOT fitting with the state of mind of a townie under pressure at EoD trying to figure things out. deathworlds if you exist, please give your quick read on Mizery considering how she's acting right now. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 546] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:43 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Is this strawmanning? Think butterfly meme -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 547] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 03:43 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff MAKE SURE YOU GUYS VOTE FOR MARSHMALLOW MARSHALL TOMORROW, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT! HE IS 100% SCUM IN MY EYES! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 548] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 03:44 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff And this probably gives us most intel There is no intel, just that it make you look three time scummier lol -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 549] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:44 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff MAKE SURE YOU GUYS VOTE FOR MARSHMALLOW MARSHALL TOMORROW, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT! HE IS 100% SCUM IN MY EYES! LW time ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 550] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:44 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff There is no intel, just that it make you look three time scummier lol yeah yeah sure -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 551] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:44 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff And this probably gives us most intel What Intel do you find from a pod v flip -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 552] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 03:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff LW time ? sure that can be my lw -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 553] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff And this probably gives us most intel The dreaded info vote. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 554] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff by LW time I meant : write (your thoughts in) one -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 555] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff What Intel do you find from a pod v flip From my notes (and LW) : PoD/Mizery not S/S (#194) PoD/MM probably not S/S, if you guys are gz, great theatrics -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 556] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 03:46 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff PowerofDeath I'm sorry ma he was my dog I'll do it. I'm not going to be mislynched today Wha What are your reads OVERALL then? Iirc POD was in your nulls earlier, and I'm not sure what you're getting at here considering Mizery also exists as a clear option according to vc; you happened to scumread her earlier, so ?? I do get the selfpreservation part though, that's NAI, it's the choice that bothers me -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 557] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 03:46 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff From my notes (and LW) : PoD/Mizery not S/S (#194) PoD/MM probably not S/S, if you guys are gz, great theatrics i flip town then what? xD -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 558] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:46 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Doing my best to exist for the last ~20 mins that are left Mizery feels way too comfortable/confident/happy for this EoD in which there isn't really THAT MUCH public info; we're really just getting into the interesting part of the game. Like, the posts above and a bunch of other half trolly one-liners are definetly NOT fitting with the state of mind of a townie under pressure at EoD trying to figure things out. deathworlds if you exist, please give your quick read on Mizery considering how she's acting right now. Oh no I had votes on me I'm so pressured oh no what am I going to do -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 559] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:47 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff i flip town then what? xD Then fuck you, I'm bad at finding T/S i'm probably bad at S/S too, but at least it feels less obvious -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 560] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 03:47 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Then fuck you, I'm bad at finding T/S i'm probably bad at S/S too, but at least it feels less obvious no fuck u -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 561] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Wha What are your reads OVERALL then? Iirc POD was in your nulls earlier, and I'm not sure what you're getting at here considering Mizery also exists as a clear option according to vc; you happened to scumread her earlier, so ?? I do get the selfpreservation part though, that's NAI, it's the choice that bothers me Perhaps the wolves committed to bussing -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 562] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff no fuck u Good idea. In about 10 minutes. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 563] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Vittae got quiet -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 564] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Good idea. In about 10 minutes. Yo keep this shit outta my good Christian mafia game -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 565] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 03:49 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Doing my best to exist for the last ~20 mins that are left Mizery feels way too comfortable/confident/happy for this EoD in which there isn't really THAT MUCH public info; we're really just getting into the interesting part of the game. Like, the posts above and a bunch of other half trolly one-liners are definetly NOT fitting with the state of mind of a townie under pressure at EoD trying to figure things out. deathworlds if you exist, please give your quick read on Mizery considering how she's acting right now. Town acting nonchalant at this stage is goofy I agree, in an ideal world I'd have misery lynched but if it's hetween me or pod I choose pod 100% of the time -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 566] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 03:49 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff MAKE SURE YOU GUYS VOTE FOR MARSHMALLOW MARSHALL AND LOLDEBITE TOMORROW, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT! HE IS 100% SCUM IN MY EYES! Fixed -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 567] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:49 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Wait shit, that's a good point, I was convinced that vittæ was bussing but the scummiest I have rn voting pod is DW So why am I voting pod -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 568] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:50 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Vittae got quiet Day is basically over, just waiting for flip tbh. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 569] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:50 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Guys come on a wolf up for the kill claims pr here let's be real -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 570] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:50 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff MAKE SURE YOU GUYS VOTE FOR MARSHMALLOW MARSHALL AND LOLDEBITE TOMORROW, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT! HE IS 100% SCUM IN MY EYES! Fixed Aww I'm important in your eyes ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 571] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 03:50 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Wha What are your reads OVERALL then? Iirc POD was in your nulls earlier, and I'm not sure what you're getting at here considering Mizery also exists as a clear option according to vc; you happened to scumread her earlier, so ?? I do get the selfpreservation part though, that's NAI, it's the choice that bothers me Scum reads in order top = scummiest Misery Loldebite PoD -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 572] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:51 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Wait shit, that's a good point, I was convinced that vittæ was bussing but the scummiest I have rn voting pod is DW So why am I voting pod I mean you already decided I wasn't but yes vote Death? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 573] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:51 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Scum reads in order top = scummiest Misery Loldebite PoD Those are truly all townies sir -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 574] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:51 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Scum reads in order top = scummiest Misery Loldebite PoD how tf did pod climb so high -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 575] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 03:52 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Vote pod not death -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 576] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:52 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deathworlds one man CFD let's go -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 577] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 03:52 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Oh no I had votes on me I'm so pressured oh no what am I going to do This is exactly what makes me suspect you even more lol. I've been reading Vittae's link on the MU university thing about W/W interactions, but I think I lack time to actually get what they mean so I'll just do this Would you consider a Deathworlds lynch? Perhaps the wolves committed to bussing Meaning? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 578] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:52 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I mean mm/pod can totally be w/w here but like pod is v so they're not -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 579] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 03:52 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Those are truly all townies sir No fuck you ika is towniest followed by vita -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 580] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:53 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Guys come on a wolf up for the kill claims pr here let's be real It's fine if you softed earlier though -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 581] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 03:53 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff FUCK loldebite don't throw here -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 582] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:53 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deathworlds one man CFD let's go That's not a cfd that's called the counterwagon -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 583] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:54 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff but THIS is CFD powerofdeath -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 584] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:54 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff It's fine if you softed earlier though POD did neither tho and these silly guys still wanna kill him -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 585] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:54 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deathworlds -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 586] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:54 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff This is exactly what makes me suspect you even more lol. I've been reading Vittae's link on the MU university thing about W/W interactions, but I think I lack time to actually get what they mean so I'll just do this Would you consider a Deathworlds lynch? Meaning? Cool article to read for fun but my point is outdated at this point so don't sweat it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 587] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 03:54 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff FUCK loldebite don't throw here Maybe claim imo I wish theres a small extension, i think 4 people claimed so far I wonder if there are any cc to 3 citizen claims -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 588] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:54 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff FUCK loldebite don't throw here Wolfy throw ate -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 589] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 03:54 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff IM TPR -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 590] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 03:55 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Fuck fuck fuck fuck im dead anyways lynch pod I'm investigator -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 591] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:55 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff IM TPR ngl I'm lynching TPR over cit any day -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 592] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:55 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff OKAY WE GOTTEM BOYZ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 593] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:55 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Did I or did I not predict it -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 594] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:56 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Vittae guide me -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 595] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:56 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Fuck fuck fuck fuck im dead anyways lynch pod I'm investigator Why would you fullclaim and not just say PR??? You've shown you know mech already -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 596] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 14th, 2023 03:57 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Why would you fullclaim and not just say PR??? You've shown you know mech already i think hes panicking -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 597] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 03:57 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff BRO I DONT WANNA DIE and being cfd'd at theladst minute on mobile is fucking bad bro -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 598] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:58 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Man I'm kinda sorry to repay you like that for Worms -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 599] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 03:58 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Losing a confirmed town from my pov is always worse for us than lynching anyone else -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 600] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:58 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff He wants to claim invest so if he lives tn he can claim a red on someone tmrw Is invest cop -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 601] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 03:58 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Man I'm kinda sorry to repay you like that for Worms It's "worm" bro! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 602] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:58 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Might be best to switch off due to self resolving claim still? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 603] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 14th, 2023 03:59 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I dont want to be d1 mislynched again ffs -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 604] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:59 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I leave fate up to vittae -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 605] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:59 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff invest is cop-ish And I don't buy it -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 606] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 14th, 2023 03:59 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Scum reads in order top = scummiest Misery Loldebite PoD powerofdeath (4 [L-1]): Marshmallow Marshall, Loldebite, deathworlds, ikarusdk Mizery (1 [L-4]): Varcron deathworlds (3 [L-2]): Vittae, powerofdeath, Mizery I guess POD is actually your only counterwagon atm so it's really selfpres. I'm beginning to doubt because of Vittae's Deathworlds/Mizery thing now though, and POD is just sitting there shouting I'm scum like there's no tomorrow We do need to lynch POD imo because his flip likely just solves Deathworlds/Mizery as being not W/W (because there are only 2 wolves), but we also need to look into deathworlds tomorrow -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 607] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 14th, 2023 03:59 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff He wants to claim invest so if he lives tn he can claim a red on someone tmrw Is invest cop Rolecop -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 608] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 14th, 2023 03:59 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff It's "worm" bro! >< it is -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 609] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 14th, 2023 03:59 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff marshmallow marshall -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 610] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 14th, 2023 04:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'd switch vote to Pod whose claim is citizen rather than death whose claim is investigator -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 611] Auteur : MartinGG99 Date : March 14th, 2023 04:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff annnnd times up processing EoD within next 10 mins -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 612] Auteur : MartinGG99 Date : March 14th, 2023 04:10 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff EoD1 powerofdeath (3 [L-2]): Marshmallow Marshall, deathworlds, ikarusdk Mizery (1 [L-4]): Varcron deathworlds (3 [L-2]): Vittae, powerofdeath, Loldebite Marshmallow Marshall (1 [L-4]): Mizery powerofdeath dies in the tie! There were: Patriot Citizen Their last will was: I townread Mizery Please vote MM tomorrow. If any towns voted me, sorry for being rusty. I am assuming 2 mafia voted me this round. Night 1 ends in about 24 hours. Make sure to submit your action(s) at least an hour before that, or I may not accept the action submission depending on how far I am through the preparation process for day 2. The first post will be updated soon. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 613] Auteur : MartinGG99 Date : March 15th, 2023 12:55 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Posting a vote-count reset before I forget to do so when setting up the new vote-count later. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 614] Auteur : MartinGG99 Date : March 15th, 2023 03:50 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff SoD2 Since I have something to get to, this day will begin 10 minutes earlier and last 10 minutes longer. Varcron has died! They were: Patriot Chemist They left no last will. Day 2 ends in 48 hours + 10 minutes! 4 deathworlds ikarusdk Loldebite Marshmallow Marshall Mizery Vittae -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 615] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 03:53 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Have strong thoughts but we should massclaim first, post reads and night results second. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 616] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 03:54 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff MM > Deb > Vittae > Ikarus claim order? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 617] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 03:55 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Don't have strong opinions on Deb against MM and am happy to go earlier as I don't think it's too important -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 618] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 03:59 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff But I will add that Varcron claiming PR as Chemist and holstering(?) it is so, so frustrating because we've lost a miselim now we could have had. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 619] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Hardclaim Civ lol at varcron really being a pr and claiming it and then no one wanting to bucket which was the objectively best strat there since he claimed imo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 620] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:01 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Don't have strong opinions on Deb against MM and am happy to go earlier as I don't think it's too important thoughts on death now -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 621] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff is sleep a thing -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 622] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff novote -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 623] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 04:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff MM > Deb > Vittae > Ikarus claim order? I agree on this claim order -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 624] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff skip -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 625] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:04 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff okat that's it -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 626] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:04 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff or we skip and don't claim and claim tomorrow -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 627] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:04 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Objectively best strat now -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 628] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:05 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff thoughts? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 629] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 04:05 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff thoughts on death now Nobody is here and I'm losing my will to play atp so I'm fine posting reads whatever As of writing my last will an hour ago I had Death/Vacron as having exactly one wolf in between them. The last will itself takes an estimated 16 minutes to read through and is full of trash and contradictions because my mind changed several times while writing it + I ran out of time + has PR spec I don't want to share rn so I'm not going to bother to post the whole thing. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 630] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 04:06 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Objectively best strat now can you elaborate on this strat please? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 631] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:07 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Nobody is here and I'm losing my will to play atp so I'm fine posting reads whatever As of writing my last will an hour ago I had Death/Vacron as having exactly one wolf in between them. The last will itself takes an estimated 16 minutes to read through and is full of trash and contradictions because my mind changed several times while writing it + I ran out of time + has PR spec I don't want to share rn so I'm not going to bother to post the whole thing. there are 6 players left and 3 players here -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 632] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 04:07 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff or we skip and don't claim and claim tomorrow Ok this is a good point. Death needs to claim a scan first though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 633] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 04:07 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff In my opinion mass claiming now in Vittae;s order and working from there is the safest. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 634] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff can you elaborate on this strat please? we have 4v2 we sleep go to 3v2 and ok nvm everyone claims pr so it's like nvm yeah scratch that -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 635] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 04:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff there are 6 players left and 3 players here 2 at time of writing and I wasn't counting myself so 1 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 636] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 04:09 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff we have 4v2 we sleep go to 3v2 and ok nvm everyone claims pr so it's like nvm yeah scratch that and we mass claim today and everyone claims citizen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 637] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:09 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ok this is a good point. Death needs to claim a scan first though. i completely forgot about that and that he is claimed somehow inbetween my first three messages anyways yeah DO claim today NOT tomorrow that is a bad idea -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 638] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:09 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff marshmallow marshall As much as I appreciate you turning my 100% chance of elimination into a coin flip. What the fuck? Did you read both me and pod as literally equal chance of being wolf? Who the hell leaves our one mislynch up to chance? What, were you happy with either outcome so you decided to let RNGesus decide? When is letting this kinda rng happen optimal from a town pov? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 639] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 04:09 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I haven't really thought about it in detail because I was pretty confident we'd have an extra killpower at the time -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 640] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:09 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Nobody is here and I'm losing my will to play atp so I'm fine posting reads whatever As of writing my last will an hour ago I had Death/Vacron as having exactly one wolf in between them. The last will itself takes an estimated 16 minutes to read through and is full of trash and contradictions because my mind changed several times while writing it + I ran out of time + has PR spec I don't want to share rn so I'm not going to bother to post the whole thing. Sorry, credentials weren't saved on my portable computer. Went and got comfy in bed a bit too early... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 641] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 04:09 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff death claimed investigator i;'d like to see what he says about his night action -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 642] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:10 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I do think that everyone on pod wagon is icky at eod imo they were like obvtown by eod -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 643] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 04:10 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Death scan claim please -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 644] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:10 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff As much as I appreciate you turning my 100% chance of elimination into a coin flip. What the fuck? Did you read both me and pod as literally equal chance of being wolf? Who the hell leaves our one mislynch up to chance? What, were you happy with either outcome so you decided to let RNGesus decide? When is letting this kinda rng happen optimal from a town pov? interesting push on me -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 645] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:11 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff death claimed investigator i;'d like to see what he says about his night action ikarus does get wolfier by the post -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 646] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:11 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Death scan claim please loldebite is tailor -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 647] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:12 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff loldebite is tailor I'm seeing a mizery/loldebite world right now -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 648] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:12 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff As much as I appreciate you turning my 100% chance of elimination into a coin flip. What the fuck? Did you read both me and pod as literally equal chance of being wolf? Who the hell leaves our one mislynch up to chance? What, were you happy with either outcome so you decided to let RNGesus decide? When is letting this kinda rng happen optimal from a town pov? Seconded but do claim I almost claimed immediately before even catching up, but AFAIK now's the time innit ? Shall I ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 649] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:12 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff between that crappy vote and a tailor invest -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 650] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 04:12 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff wait, just realised we should've waited till we all claimed before the scan reveal. yes that was wolfy of me -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 651] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 04:12 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff loldebite is tailor Why did you scan Deb? I expected you to go after MM if you were town based on your ISO. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 652] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:13 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff lol confirm or deny -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 653] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:13 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I do think that everyone on pod wagon is icky at eod imo they were like obvtown by eod They were obv town but you chose to rng it ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 654] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 04:13 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff wait, just realised we should've waited till we all claimed before the scan reveal. yes that was wolfy of me I totally forgot as well lol. I'm feeling pretty tilted rn so I should probably go take a break for a bit. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 655] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:13 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Why did you scan Deb? I expected you to go after MM if you were town based on your ISO. I started to like MM after I went through that point by point of him, and the general vibe regarding him seemed to be better, except for pod's opinion -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 656] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:14 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff wait, just realised we should've waited till we all claimed before the scan reveal. yes that was wolfy of me it's wolfy of you because you're waiting to see who he scanned to see if you have to claim PR or civ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 657] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:14 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff He's lying lol Should've insta claimed, I knew it. I made it clear from my reaction that I didn't believe his claim bc of my role. No point rushing things now I haven't even caught up there's like 5 messages new posted when I post one -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 658] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:14 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff They were obv town but you chose to rng it ? yeah bc i didn't want death's death on my couscous if he flipped v -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 659] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:15 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff He's lying lol Should've insta claimed, I knew it. I made it clear from my reaction that I didn't believe his claim bc of my role. No point rushing things now I haven't even caught up there's like 5 messages new posted when I post one so you're claiming PR but not tailor -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 660] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:15 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Man I'm mad at you miz -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 661] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:16 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Man I'm mad at you miz I hope you can find peace -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 662] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:17 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Why did you scan Deb? I expected you to go after MM if you were town based on your ISO. As for deb, it was all about choosing between scanning deb, or scanning mizery. Deb's been in my poe since the first half of the first day, and I'm starting to think mizery is more of a troll than I originally gave her credit for, maybe she is actually citizen idfk. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 663] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 04:17 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff it's wolfy of you because you're waiting to see who he scanned to see if you have to claim PR or civ I think this is pretty towny of miz. Her willingness to scumread me I feel is good. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 664] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 04:18 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ngl I wanted varcron to live through last night. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 665] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:18 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ikarus you claiming civ here? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 666] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:19 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff He's lying lol Should've insta claimed, I knew it. I made it clear from my reaction that I didn't believe his claim bc of my role. No point rushing things now I haven't even caught up there's like 5 messages new posted when I post one Your claim doesn't work with my setup speculation. Varcron claimed one of the vanilla like roles (apparently he was chemist instead, which is soooo goofy), there is zero shot that there are TWO anti-town utility roles. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 667] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:19 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Claim order means nothing, Lol and death are claiming to be the two PRs left, if you are a PR then say so -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 668] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:20 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Your claim doesn't work with my setup speculation. Varcron claimed one of the vanilla like roles (apparently he was chemist instead, which is soooo goofy), there is zero shot that there are TWO anti-town utility roles. My claim ? I haven't claimed anything yet -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 669] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 04:20 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff so..if im correct 2 or 3 PR town 3 citizen 2 PR scum Pod- flipped citizen Varcron - flipped town PR Miz - claimed citizen death - claimed investigator but his scan on loldebite is apparently a lie loldebite - PR? MM - Vittae - Myslef - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 670] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 04:20 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Claim order means nothing, Lol and death are claiming to be the two PRs left, if you are a PR then say so Think it over more carefully -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 671] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:20 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff My claim ? I haven't claimed anything yet you said "my role" saying it doesn't work with your role. implication is that you have a role idk what he's on with "claim" but yeah -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 672] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:21 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff My claim ? I haven't claimed anything yet You're tailor bro, if varcron claimed to be anti-utility, then why wouldn't you thunderdome him? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 673] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:21 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff As for deb, it was all about choosing between scanning deb, or scanning mizery. Deb's been in my poe since the first half of the first day, and I'm starting to think mizery is more of a troll than I originally gave her credit for, maybe she is actually citizen idfk. scanning me was stupid, I hadn't claimed already. Miz said "hardclaim cit", which I believed was an actual true claim. Hence why I visited mizery. I'm snitch, which you must know but you can't tell them I'm snitch because only town can roll that. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 674] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:21 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Think it over more carefully you think they shouldn't say so and we should see who dies? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 675] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:22 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff scanning me was stupid, I hadn't claimed already. Miz said "hardclaim cit", which I believed was an actual true claim. Hence why I visited mizery. I'm snitch, which you must know but you can't tell them I'm snitch because only town can roll that. EASIEST SCUM CLAIM EVER -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 676] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:22 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff >Leaves no feedback >Only works when dead >Only town can roll it Any idiot can claim snitch Loldebite -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 677] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:22 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Anyway I guess you didn't scan miz because you know her role from the start because you're partners in crime. Impressed at vittæ's accuracy if that's the case tbh -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 678] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:23 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Oh is lol the wolf here because that'd be dissapointing -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 679] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 04:23 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff you think they shouldn't say so and we should see who dies? Will explain after claims if you don't get it now -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 680] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:24 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Lol if you thought i was telling the truth why would you target me and not someone else -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 681] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 04:24 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If i want a role claim order i'd like it to be lol>mm>vittae>myself -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 682] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:25 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Will explain after claims if you don't get it now I just want it over because i have rehearsal tonight -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 683] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:25 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If i want a role claim order i'd like it to be lol>mm>vittae>myself what happened to wanting vittae's order -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 684] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:25 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Anyway I guess you didn't scan miz because you know her role from the start because you're partners in crime. Impressed at vittæ's accuracy if that's the case tbh I'm not scum bro, you are. And I wouldn't be surprised if you were paired with Miz! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 685] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Eyeroll @ your reaction. Let's wait for MM I guess. The more I think about it the more miz sparing dw only makes sense as scum Like that's a surprising coincidence -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 686] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Pushing on me/deathworlds makes no sense and I'd probably look back to d1 about it to see what people are talkign about there because i don't remember any mention until vittae mentioned it around eod but i'm too lazy for that -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 687] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 04:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff what happened to wanting vittae's order after the interaction since SoD I had wanted to see about lol more. But lol claimed snitch -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 688] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Just let varcron slide on by with an anti-town utility pr claim in a setup with 3 smh, only makes sense if you're wolf -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 689] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 04:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Death you should scan MM tonight -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 690] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm not scum bro, you are. And I wouldn't be surprised if you were paired with Miz! is this w/w theater designed to get people to vote me because that's very funny -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 691] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Pushing on me/deathworlds makes no sense and I'd probably look back to d1 about it to see what people are talkign about there because i don't remember any mention until vittae mentioned it around eod but i'm too lazy for that and seriously, saving me at eod? Zero confidence in your reads, OR happy with either outcome, and seeing how pod flipped town... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 692] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Oh is lol the wolf here because that'd be dissapointing you can do better you did much better yesterday, tbh -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 693] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 04:28 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Death you should scan MM tonight Actually ignore this -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 694] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:28 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Death you should scan MM tonight That, makes sense. Hesitant at doing it at someone else's direction -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 695] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:28 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff and seriously, saving me at eod? Zero confidence in your reads, OR happy with either outcome, and seeing how pod flipped town... sorry is that a wolfclaim lol -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 696] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:28 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Actually ignore this you got it -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 697] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 04:29 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff anyway I'm going to reveal after MM and Vittae reveal. I think we have enough to go on today. Either death is right and lol is a scum tailor and the obvious defense would be to claim a PR role that is town, because claiming citizen right now with 3 people not revealed is a bad idea Death is wrong and lol is actually a snitch. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 698] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:29 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Lol if you thought i was telling the truth why would you target me and not someone else cuz getting a confirmed town is better than a role that doesn't mean shit since it says nothing about alignment ? IIRC I have one of the only PR role that's patriot only, and my check doesn't see alignment either, only role. What good would knowing dw really is invest do ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 699] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:29 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff sorry is that a wolfclaim lol No, it's an assumption that you were happy with either me or Pod dying, seeing as how you left it to a coinflip, that only makes sense to me if you knew everyone's alignments as a wolf -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 700] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:29 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Death you can't singlehandedly create v/v wagons and then pretend to try to push it onto someone else right lol -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 701] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:30 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If i want a role claim order i'd like it to be lol>mm>vittae>myself helloooo wake up ! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 702] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:30 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm not scum bro, you are. And I wouldn't be surprised if you were paired with Miz! Man you're rusty -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 703] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:31 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I don't recall if you played on narrator back then, I feel like you did a couple games but I'm not sure -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 704] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:31 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I don't recall if you played on narrator back then, I feel like you did a couple games but I'm not sure No, I haven't played narrator -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 705] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:31 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff cuz getting a confirmed town is better than a role that doesn't mean shit since it says nothing about alignment ? IIRC I have one of the only PR role that's patriot only, and my check doesn't see alignment either, only role. What good would knowing dw really is invest do ? idk if i was your role and v I'd be upset right now that i didn't visit death so that when i died today everyone would be more dissapointed in killing me when they see the double result right away -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 706] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 04:32 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff anyway I'm going to reveal after MM and Vittae reveal. I think we have enough to go on today. Either death is right and lol is a scum tailor and the obvious defense would be to claim a PR role that is town, because claiming citizen right now with 3 people not revealed is a bad idea Death is wrong and lol is actually a snitch. Death was on stand yesterday and he had to pull something to live through today. I don't think they are bussing each other. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 707] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:33 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ikarus thanks for claiming cit -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 708] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:33 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Pushing on me/deathworlds makes no sense and I'd probably look back to d1 about it to see what people are talkign about there because i don't remember any mention until vittae mentioned it around eod but i'm too lazy for that FIne let's say that you're town, we've got nothing better to do before MM arrives anyway. If I'm scum, who's in with me ? If DW's scum, who's in with him ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 709] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 04:33 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Just eating atm gimme 1 hour pls -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 710] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:33 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff did i just ruin it by saying that, vittae or is it the other thing -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 711] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:34 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff FIne let's say that you're town, we've got nothing better to do before MM arrives anyway. If I'm scum, who's in with me ? If DW's scum, who's in with him ? I've already said i think this is w/w -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 712] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:34 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff and seriously, saving me at eod? Zero confidence in your reads, OR happy with either outcome, and seeing how pod flipped town... Man wait until MM claims coach and redirecting u on someone else That's gonna be hi la ri ous I can't wait. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 713] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:35 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff is this w/w theater designed to get people to vote me because that's very funny That WOULD be funny lol but no it's just the least bad DW could come up with after the panicky claim yesterday I was hoping to die for my claim, but yeah, chemist definitely is scarier. SIgh. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 714] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:36 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff unvote oh -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 715] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:37 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Wait if MM is alseep its going to be like 5 or more hours til he gets up -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 716] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:37 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Oh he's in thread nvm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 717] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:38 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff That WOULD be funny lol but no it's just the least bad DW could come up with after the panicky claim yesterday I was hoping to die for my claim, but yeah, chemist definitely is scarier. SIgh. you were hoping to die for your claim? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 718] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:39 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff sorry is that a wolfclaim lol Well, yes, but also he's right lol yeah I'm still mad at you -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 719] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:40 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff No, I haven't played narrator Dang you came out of retirement to rand scum and lynch your old pal ? Brutal -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 720] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 04:41 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ftr while I'm obviously frustrated rn, it's not specifically at Varcron and I have no hard feelings towards them. Everyone makes mistakes and they seem like a cool person. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 721] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:41 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff idk if i was your role and v I'd be upset right now that i didn't visit death so that when i died today everyone would be more dissapointed in killing me when they see the double result right away what double result ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 722] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:41 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff and seriously, saving me at eod? Zero confidence in your reads, OR happy with either outcome, and seeing how pod flipped town... I'll say it again because i think it didn't get seen on the last page you can't create v/v wagons and then seriously believe it's going to be percieved as a valid push to push me for not wanting to vote on either after you claim PR After appealing that you should live at eod you think i should trust my w read on you over your claim? Why claim then, if you think it shouldn't influence how people vote? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 723] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 04:42 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ftr while I'm obviously frustrated rn, it's not specifically at Varcron and I have no hard feelings towards them. Everyone makes mistakes and they seem like a cool person. Saying this because I namedropped Vacron earlier and made it look like I was extremely annoyed at them specifically. I'm not, it's cool. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 724] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:42 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Dang you came out of retirement to rand scum and lynch your old pal ? Brutal You act like I totally lead that train, which no, I did not. If anything Mizery lynched PoD by forcing it to go to a coin flip -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 725] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:42 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ftr while I'm obviously frustrated rn, it's not specifically at Varcron and I have no hard feelings towards them. Everyone makes mistakes and they seem like a cool person. lol wait did he- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 726] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:42 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I've already said i think this is w/w Wait you were SERIOUS ? lmfao no way -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 727] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:43 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ok frankly I'm voting Death today even tho it's MyLo i simply can not care with how he's approaching me rn -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 728] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 04:43 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff did i just ruin it by saying that, vittae or is it the other thing No it's What lmao Just wait a moment and I'll tell you after the claims -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 729] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:43 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff you were hoping to die for your claim? Course I was, my role does nothing until I die -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 730] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:44 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Saying this because I namedropped Vacron earlier and made it look like I was extremely annoyed at them specifically. I'm not, it's cool. the only reason why you're saying that, yeah? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 731] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 04:44 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff lol wait did he- Vacron was a poisoner/chemist and claimed + holstered so we lost a full miselim lol -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 732] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:44 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'll say it again because i think it didn't get seen on the last page you can't create v/v wagons and then seriously believe it's going to be percieved as a valid push to push me for not wanting to vote on either after you claim PR So they were both town trains from your pov? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 733] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Marshmallow Marshall -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 734] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Vacron was a poisoner/chemist and claimed + holstered so we lost a full miselim lol i thought you'd have realized he didn't neccesarily holster -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 735] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 15th, 2023 04:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff No, it's an assumption that you were happy with either me or Pod dying, seeing as how you left it to a coinflip, that only makes sense to me if you knew everyone's alignments as a wolf Mindmeld here. What the heck was that last minute coinflip? That basically cemented my feeling about Mizery's overconfidence: she was very happy with what was going on at EOD. I feel like that invalidates the Mizery/Deathworlds theory, though; thoughts on this Vittae? Also, we should claim now, right? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 736] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:46 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm not poisoned so most likely he did since i don't see him poisoning MM -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 737] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:46 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff for the record I was not poisoned -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 738] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:46 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff You act like I totally lead that train, which no, I did not. If anything Mizery lynched PoD by forcing it to go to a coin flip That was a joke. There's nothing left for us to tell each other but jokes and petty insults. UNLESS ika claims coach and redirecting you onto someone else, but If that happens I swear to god I'll find them and call them names for a whole fucking day. And I'll pretend I'm their ex that you left after drugging me or something horrible. And I'll write their name in my shitnote. And I'l cry myself to sleep right then. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 739] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 04:46 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff the only reason why you're saying that, yeah? Yeah, ignore that post specifically for reading my alignment as I'd do the same regardless to not come off as hostile to someone who doesn't deserve it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 740] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:47 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff and i suppose he didn't poison MM then again wolves might not claim if they have been poisoned -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 741] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:47 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Shit I read too slowly on my portable computer I can't keep up ;( -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 742] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 04:47 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff i thought you'd have realized he didn't neccesarily holster Wait are poisons not public? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 743] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:47 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ikarus isn't going to claim anything he's already claimed cit -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 744] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 04:47 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ok somebody could have told me that at the point I was visibly getting upset in thread lol -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 745] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff lol wait did he- nah no way. Not vittae. No way. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 746] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Wait are poisons not public? only the poisoned is alerted -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 747] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Wait are poisons not public? poison leaves feedback, the kill happens as the end of the day, doesn't affect the numbers required for a lynch -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 748] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ok somebody could have told me that at the point I was visibly getting upset in thread lol I thought it was because he poisoned you and since you're a PR and like very towny you were upset -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 749] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 15th, 2023 04:49 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff and i suppose he didn't poison MM then again wolves might not claim if they have been poisoned I confirm I was not poisoned, btw -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 750] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:49 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff No it's What lmao Just wait a moment and I'll tell you after the claims nononononnono don't tell me this only the coaching claim would be worse than this please don't be this I don't want it to be this so please don't please -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 751] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:49 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff also, varcron, I specifically asked everyone to leave a last will jfc -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 752] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:49 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff the only role claim we're missing is MM right now, btw mm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 753] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:50 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff WAIT A MINUTE loldebite is tailor, what's to say that varcron wasn't tailored? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 754] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 04:50 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff That was a joke. There's nothing left for us to tell each other but jokes and petty insults. UNLESS ika claims coach and redirecting you onto someone else, but If that happens I swear to god I'll find them and call them names for a whole fucking day. And I'll pretend I'm their ex that you left after drugging me or something horrible. And I'll write their name in my shitnote. And I'l cry myself to sleep right then. I wish I was a coach -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 755] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:50 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff LMAO TAILOR DOESN'T AFFECT THE LAST WILL -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 756] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 04:51 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Mindmeld here. What the heck was that last minute coinflip? That basically cemented my feeling about Mizery's overconfidence: she was very happy with what was going on at EOD. I feel like that invalidates the Mizery/Deathworlds theory, though; thoughts on this Vittae? Also, we should claim now, right? Isn't wolf-Miz moving off of town investigator-Death basically gamethrowing though? Like you have the cop dead to rights with minimal accountability (Miz said she'd let me be the deciding vote) in a game with very powerful town protective roles and you don't let the cop die? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 757] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:51 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff WAIT A MINUTE loldebite is tailor, what's to say that varcron wasn't tailored? this is theoretically towning for the timing of this theory -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 758] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:51 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff LUL LUL LUL LUL LUL LUL -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 759] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 15th, 2023 04:52 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff That was a joke. There's nothing left for us to tell each other but jokes and petty insults. UNLESS ika claims coach and redirecting you onto someone else, but If that happens I swear to god I'll find them and call them names for a whole fucking day. And I'll pretend I'm their ex that you left after drugging me or something horrible. And I'll write their name in my shitnote. And I'l cry myself to sleep right then. :thinking: why are you acting like your game is over...? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 760] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:52 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Can we just MM You're the only claim left -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 761] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:52 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Isn't wolf-Miz moving off of town investigator-Death basically gamethrowing though? Like you have the cop dead to rights with minimal accountability (Miz said she'd let me be the deciding vote) in a game with very powerful town protective roles and you don't let the cop die? > Town deathworlds KEKW -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 762] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:53 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Isn't wolf-Miz moving off of town investigator-Death basically gamethrowing though? Like you have the cop dead to rights with minimal accountability (Miz said she'd let me be the deciding vote) in a game with very powerful town protective roles and you don't let the cop die? If people were so willing to lynch me d1, whats to say they wouldn't be willing to mislynch me today? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 763] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 04:53 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff nah no way. Not vittae. No way. You surely don't believe I'm town this strongly because you've already put me in your top 2 wolves on 2 separate occasions this game and never stated a townread on me after the last time that happened? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 764] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:53 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff > Town deathworlds KEKW >Town Debbie KEKW -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 765] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:53 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff :thinking: why are you acting like your game is over...? oh for fucks sake I CBA holding your hand. Read the fucking game. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 766] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 15th, 2023 04:54 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff the only role claim we're missing is MM right now, btw mm I'm citizen. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 767] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:54 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff LEAVE A LAST WILL WITH YOUR ROLE IN IT FFS -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 768] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:54 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff skip I'll be back if there's a tomorrow and see if people want to read my posts then Everyone needs to claim their roles and claim if they've been poisoned or not -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 769] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:56 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff You surely don't believe I'm town this strongly because you've already put me in your top 2 wolves on 2 separate occasions this game and never stated a townread on me after the last time that happened? I didn't really have the time to state anything considering I was busy juggling votes between pod & dw like an imbecile. I think I do that a lot, stress I guess ? Anyway, yeah I changed my mind (also had on mizery btw, I was 100% convinced she was town at EoD) and didn't say so because it didn't feel relevant anyway -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 770] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 15th, 2023 04:56 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff oh for fucks sake I CBA holding your hand. Read the fucking game. Assuming town!you, there is still another scum... hence, being in lolcatting mode doesn't exactly fit? You also seem to ENTIRELY DISREGARD THIS, considering you're salting at me lol. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 771] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 04:56 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If people were so willing to lynch me d1, whats to say they wouldn't be willing to mislynch me today? Giving you a peek would be extremely risky for literally 0 gain. Outside of the heat of the moment you if town could also do something to prove yourself and I think you would be much less likely to remain LHF in that case than PoD. Why does Miz just make herself look surface level terrible for no gain and a huge risk as mafia if you're town? What's the goal here? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 772] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:56 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also I want to make sure people are aware that a wolf doesn't claim poison if they're poisoned which means we either have a dead wolf or it's mylo either way we can skip day -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 773] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:57 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff >Town Debbie KEKW too late, I have the upper post ! YIELD -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 774] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 04:57 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm citizen. As am I ikarusdk -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 775] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:57 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Why does Miz just make herself look surface level terrible for no gain and a huge risk as mafia if you're town? What's the goal here? The lolz, player meta -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 776] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:57 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ikarus already claimed cit bro -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 777] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:58 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff it's true i do love playing terribly as scum for the lolz and the player meta -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 778] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 04:59 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Assuming town!you, there is still another scum... hence, being in lolcatting mode doesn't exactly fit? You also seem to ENTIRELY DISREGARD THIS, considering you're salting at me lol. My day is already over. I'll care about tomorrow when I wake up. If I wake up. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 779] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 04:59 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff it's true i do love playing terribly as scum for the lolz and the player meta idk between you spamming BUCKETSTRAT and from a town!pov leaving our mislynch up to chance seems pretty troll -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 780] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 04:59 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff so all of yall are cit and we death and lol are both v that's what all of yall should be thinking now -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 781] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 05:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff idk between you spamming BUCKETSTRAT and from a town!pov leaving our mislynch up to chance seems pretty troll varcron had claimed bro claiming on d1 would have objectively been optimal we lose a pr on n1 but if you're v we don't end up with v/v wagons at eod -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 782] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also I want to make sure people are aware that a wolf doesn't claim poison if they're poisoned which means we either have a dead wolf or it's mylo either way we can skip day Ohhh well that might explain dw's behaviour tbh Varcron if you did this, ily -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 783] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 05:01 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ohhh well that might explain dw's behaviour tbh Varcron if you did this, ily that's why that is technically a possibility, because he could be a poisoned wolf determined to get a villager out as well i mean it's a stretch but it sure is a possibility -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 784] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 05:02 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff wait, so it's deathworlds - invest ikarusdk - cit Loldebite - tailor Marshmallow Marshall - cit Mizery- cit powerofdeath - cit Varcron - chemist? Vittae - cit -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 785] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 05:02 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I thought it was because he poisoned you and since you're a PR and like very towny you were upset It was a combination of burnout from spending so much time on this game, annoyance at myself over my play this game and frustration that I had just written a 2500 word essay on players in this game for it to be (perceived) almost unwinnable. I don't blame Varcron and still don't if they did indeed holster but definitely caused a lot of my frustrations to show lol. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 786] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I guess 2 town PRs make sense with a chemist -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 787] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Citizen 3 max PoD Citizen claims Mizery Vitae MM ikarus PR Varcron Pr claims Loldebite Death world Now would be a good time to say I am town bartender. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 788] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 15th, 2023 05:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Isn't wolf-Miz moving off of town investigator-Death basically gamethrowing though? Like you have the cop dead to rights with minimal accountability (Miz said she'd let me be the deciding vote) in a game with very powerful town protective roles and you don't let the cop die? I rather see wolf!Mizery letting her wolf!Deathworlds be 50 % dead right at the last second as literal gamethrowing lol. Plus, town!Deathworlds was probably never going to be protected here (or even killed at night), considering how he almost got lynched; nobody would believe him at MYLO, so he wouldn't be a thread to wolf!Mizery. Like, if I were a protective, I would never go protect the maybe-wolf and definetly-not-attacked Deathworlds here. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 789] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 05:04 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff doesn't make sense with no prot tho, but I guess if scum isn't given a role block then it would prevent "follow the sheriff" from happening regardless -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 790] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:04 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I wasnt actually claiming citizen, I wanted to see who would claim citizen as well as PR after I solft implied I was citizen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 791] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 05:04 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff OH GUYS I JUST NOW I NOW UNDERSTAND THE SETUP -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 792] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:05 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Citizen 3 max PoD Citizen claims Mizery Vitae MM ikarus PR Varcron Pr claims Loldebite Death world Now would be a good time to say I am town bartender. wooooooooooow HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Did they tailor varcron to make it fit their narrative but we can't tell because no LW ? BAHAHAHA -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 793] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 05:05 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ikarus already claimed cit bro Is this serious or you just saying he spewed himself? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 794] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:05 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Citizen 3 max PoD Citizen claims Mizery Vitae MM ikarus PR Varcron Pr claims Loldebite Death world Now would be a good time to say I am town bartender. Now either way We have a scum PR between death/lol We have a scum PR between miz/MM/Vittae -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 795] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 05:06 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Is this serious or you just saying he spewed himself? I'm just boosting -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 796] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 05:07 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff The lolz, player meta I know Miz very well, can vouch that this wouldn't happen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 797] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 05:07 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I thought that hidden patriot meant it was always a role role and not a cit but it's not it's not true -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 798] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:07 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff wooooooooooow HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Did they tailor varcron to make it fit their narrative but we can't tell because no LW ? BAHAHAHA There is no coach, and if there is the coach should come out. With your narrative and there is tailor, death might be correct you are tailor. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 799] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff There is no coach, and if there is the coach should come out. With your narrative and there is tailor, death might be correct you are tailor. face fucking palm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 800] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 05:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff wait with ikar claiming drug dealer, then deathworlds - invest ikarusdk - bar tender Loldebite - tailor Marshmallow Marshall - cit Mizery- cit powerofdeath - cit Varcron - chemist? Vittae - cit -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 801] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Either way, a town tailor wouldnt commit to night action, if we have a tailor they are 1000% scum tailor -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 802] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff BROOOO -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 803] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 15th, 2023 05:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Giving you a peek would be extremely risky for literally 0 gain. Outside of the heat of the moment you if town could also do something to prove yourself and I think you would be much less likely to remain LHF in that case than PoD. Why does Miz just make herself look surface level terrible for no gain and a huge risk as mafia if you're town? What's the goal here? The point about taking a massive risk is very true, though... hm. I have a hard time believing neither are scum, though, especially Mizery considering the whole 2nd half of D1. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 804] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 05:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I thought that hidden patriot meant it was always a role role and not a cit but it's not it's not true gotta read the Q&A -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 805] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 05:09 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Citizen 3 max PoD Citizen claims Mizery Vitae MM ikarus PR Varcron Pr claims Loldebite Death world Now would be a good time to say I am town bartender. Ok good stuff. Surprised you bought Varcron's claim as a useless PR if you were one yourself though? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 806] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:10 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Lol, if I'm going agaisnt something or common sense, do feel free to correct me -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 807] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 05:11 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Varcron - cit tailored Ikarus - bartender death - invest lol - wolf -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 808] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:12 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Varcron - cit tailored Ikarus - bartender death - invest lol - wolf no fucking way I can't fucking believe it -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 809] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:12 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Either we have a tailor and Varcron was something else, Or We dont have a tailor and Varcron is town chemist. I am not following deaths narrative, i am following the current situation -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 810] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:13 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Lol, if I'm going agaisnt something or common sense, do feel free to correct me maybe I misunderstood what you said... BRB I'll read back Actually maybe I'll go back to my main computer and completely give up sleeping yeah i'll do that brb -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 811] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 05:13 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff We CANNOT be fooled by a tailor again if we just leave appropriate last wills that STATE OUR ROLE -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 812] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 05:14 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Invest + Invest changer are basically as useful to wolves on the same alignment assuming that the person uses it. less because it's so risky i suppose. Then put an arso on that team in a small player list which is swingy then give the wolves a tailor to change deaths Maybe if you assume the arso somehow balances it out by being swingy but doesn't make much sense unless you don't think about it? or think about it too hard? idk which I'm doing right now. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 813] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:15 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff We CANNOT be fooled by a tailor again if we just leave appropriate last wills that STATE OUR ROLE Ngl I forgot to leave my role in lw -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 814] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 05:15 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Invest + Invest changer are basically as useful to wolves on the same alignment assuming that the person uses it. less because it's so risky i suppose. Then put an arso on that team in a small player list which is swingy then give the wolves a tailor to change deaths Maybe if you assume the arso somehow balances it out by being swingy but doesn't make much sense unless you don't think about it? or think about it too hard? idk which I'm doing right now. where are you even getting arsonist from? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 815] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 15th, 2023 05:15 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Citizen 3 max PoD Citizen claims Mizery Vitae MM ikarus PR Varcron Pr claims Loldebite Death world Now would be a good time to say I am town bartender. wait what lol I dare assume you haven't used your ability xD. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 816] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 05:15 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I rather see wolf!Mizery letting her wolf!Deathworlds be 50 % dead right at the last second as literal gamethrowing lol. Plus, town!Deathworlds was probably never going to be protected here (or even killed at night), considering how he almost got lynched; nobody would believe him at MYLO, so he wouldn't be a thread to wolf!Mizery. Like, if I were a protective, I would never go protect the maybe-wolf and definetly-not-attacked Deathworlds here. Wolf-Miz could in theory let Death live sure but it would be a large misplay. She wouldn't know for certain if a town poisoner existed in the setup so now Death, if town, gets 2 peeks or gets nightkilled and the game becomes a coinflip if Death lives. By comparison, miseliminating town Death is basically an immediate mafia victory because PoD had already claimed cit and could be pushed extremely easily + many more open alternative options than if Death was alive with peeks. So Miz being a wolf and Death town is a big throw for Miz there tbh and she's much better than that. But yes I agree that Miz is unlikely w/w with Death either. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 817] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:16 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ok good stuff. Surprised you bought Varcron's claim as a useless PR if you were one yourself though? Sorry I dont understand. I didnt think his claim was useless -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 818] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 05:17 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff varcron - Chemist lol - Oracle i forget what you call it Ikarus???/ Death - Wolf invest -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 819] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:17 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff There is no coach, and if there is the coach should come out. With your narrative and there is tailor, death might be correct you are tailor. Yes, there is no coach, that was a joke I made. Ah yeah that's what I misread, I thought you were saying that in MY narrative I was tailor. Wait yeah what you're saying is still nonsense, in MY narrative (which also is the reality, btw) I am SNITCH. NOT tailor... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 820] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:17 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff wait what lol I dare assume you haven't used your ability xD. As much as I wanted to, no I held firm. I did fidget as I was sleeping though -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 821] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 05:17 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff where are you even getting arsonist from? i mean poisoner they both end in ist -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 822] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 05:18 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Sorry I dont understand. I didnt think his claim was useless Varcron claimed to be an anti-town utility role, so a role that doesn't do anything positive for town, I listed those examples as Tailor, Bartender, and janitor. I assumed Varcron was one of these three roles, or at least claiming one of those three roles -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 823] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 05:18 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I am SNITCH. NOT tailor... wrong -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 824] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:18 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff We CANNOT be fooled by a tailor again if we just leave appropriate last wills that STATE OUR ROLE We cannot be fooled by tailor again period. It is only 1 use. Also starting to think that tailor deletes LWs, and that you knew about it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 825] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:19 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yes, there is no coach, that was a joke I made. Ah yeah that's what I misread, I thought you were saying that in MY narrative I was tailor. Wait yeah what you're saying is still nonsense, in MY narrative (which also is the reality, btw) I am SNITCH. NOT tailor... Yeah I misunderstood you as well. Deaths narrative is that you are tailor and Varcron is tailored. Your narrative is that death is not, and you are a snitch -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 826] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 05:20 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff wait with ikar claiming drug dealer, then deathworlds - invest ikarusdk - bar tender Loldebite - tailor Marshmallow Marshall - cit Mizery- cit powerofdeath - cit Varcron - chemist? Vittae - cit The point about taking a massive risk is very true, though... hm. I have a hard time believing neither are scum, though, especially Mizery considering the whole 2nd half of D1. Nothing about Mizery's alignment means Death can't be mafia as a standalone though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 827] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:20 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff varcron - Chemist lol - Oracle i forget what you call it Ikarus???/ Death - Wolf invest YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GZ !!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 828] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 05:20 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff We cannot be fooled by tailor again period. It is only 1 use. Also starting to think that tailor deletes LWs, and that you knew about it. only has one charge. huh -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 829] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 05:20 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Can we please sleep -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 830] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 15th, 2023 05:20 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Do we have any confirmation that tailor doesn't delete last wills? If so, Varcron is actually very probably just citizen lol. It makes much more sense for him to be cit who doesn't feel like he needs to put anything in his last will than having him say NOTHING AT ALL in his last will as what probably is the most powerful power role we have because it can buy us a mislynch lol. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 831] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 05:21 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Well now that ikarus has claimed we can't nvm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 832] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:21 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Since there is at least one person who is scum PR in citizen claim It is safe to assume from my PoV even if Varcron was tailored There is one scum between death/lol. This fact cannot change. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 833] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:21 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah I misunderstood you as well. Deaths narrative is that you are tailor and Varcron is tailored. Your narrative is that death is not, and you are a snitch Yup ! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 834] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:22 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Nothing about Mizery's alignment means Death can't be mafia as a standalone though. I strongly suspect that NOTHING AT ALL means death can't be mafia. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 835] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 05:22 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Since there is at least one person who is scum PR in citizen claim It is safe to assume from my PoV even if Varcron was tailored There is one scum between death/lol. This fact cannot change. Unless there's scum bus driver or operative or something. But yes I investigated Loldebite, he appeared as tailor, he claimed snitch, I think it is likely he is lying -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 836] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 05:23 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Would the tailor get the role of their target? Just thinking thar Varcron would be much more likely a weak town PR like town bartenderas they claimed than cit -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 837] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:24 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Do we have any confirmation that tailor doesn't delete last wills? If so, Varcron is actually very probably just citizen lol. It makes much more sense for him to be cit who doesn't feel like he needs to put anything in his last will than having him say NOTHING AT ALL in his last will as what probably is the most powerful power role we have because it can buy us a mislynch lol. that would mean only 2 TPR : either tailor & bar tender or Snitch & bartender. I don't buy it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 838] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:24 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff But varcron was probably tailored as chemist, yeah -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 839] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:25 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Since there is at least one person who is scum PR in citizen claim It is safe to assume from my PoV even if Varcron was tailored There is one scum between death/lol. This fact cannot change. Absolutely correct. DW has forced me into a thunderdome. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 840] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Absolutely correct. DW has forced me into a thunderdome. Rock paper scissors? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 841] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Would the tailor get the role of their target? Just thinking thar Varcron would be much more likely a weak town PR like town bartenderas they claimed than cit Yeah he's probably not chem IMO -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 842] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 15th, 2023 05:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Well now that ikarus has claimed we can't nvm Why can't we sleep here? This is 4v2 and nobody is poisoned, so we should be good, right? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 843] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Rock paper scissors? Nah, no need. You can get much better odds than that. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 844] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Why can't we sleep here? This is 4v2 and nobody is poisoned, so we should be good, right? We actually don't know the 2nd scum's role. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 845] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 05:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Unless there's scum bus driver or operative or something. But yes I investigated Loldebite, he appeared as tailor, he claimed snitch, I think it is likely he is lying Worth noting that if there is an operative Death is almost always the target if they're town. Wouldn't mean the peek is wrong though, just rand accurate in that case. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 846] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 05:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Rock paper scissors? pfft, better leave it up to mizery again -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 847] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Why can't we sleep here? This is 4v2 and nobody is poisoned, so we should be good, right? Because I'm dying if we sleep -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 848] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:28 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff pfft, better leave it up to mizery again At least there is one thing we agree on. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 849] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:28 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Because I'm dying if we sleep r u saying you're poisoned ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 850] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:28 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff FTR I never stated it but I'm not poisoned either -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 851] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 15th, 2023 05:29 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff that would mean only 2 TPR : either tailor & bar tender or Snitch & bartender. I don't buy it. I mean, that is assuming there isn't town investigator, which is a very strong role, and tailor being scum - because there is no way on Earth town tailor does anything lol. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 852] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:29 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff r u saying you're poisoned ? No, I'll probably get killed. I'm not poisoned. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 853] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:30 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If scum kills people outside me, then it really narrows down the list and town will still have my vote. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 854] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:30 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I mean, that is assuming there isn't town investigator, which is a very strong role, and tailor being scum - because there is no way on Earth town tailor does anything lol. wow yeah that was fucking stupid, scratch that, guess I'm tired -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 855] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 05:31 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Because I'm dying if we sleep Fine by me tbh. Death, if town, gets an extra scan or dies. Death, if wolf, has a more difficult claim to have to justify. In the off chance that you're lying (especially because your claim soft ccs Varcron's who was maybe tailored) you are more likely to be found and if you're town then less effort is spent tinfoiling you. If a wolf is Poisoned they will die as well. Minimal downside unless I'm missing something. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 856] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:32 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Killing lol or death reveals the other is scum and vice versa Killing citizen will also narrow down the list to choice of 3 people. I'm the obvious candidate for night kill -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 857] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:32 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Choice of 2 I mean -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 858] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:33 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Good news is that vittae is actually locktown now that they pushed DW -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 859] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:33 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff so actually, vittae's dying -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 860] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:34 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff So it's either Miz or MM scum mate with DW So it's MM ? Ez game ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 861] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:34 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah actually I'm pretty sure pod was right -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 862] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 05:34 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Killing lol or death reveals the other is scum and vice versa Killing citizen will also narrow down the list to choice of 3 people. I'm the obvious candidate for night kill You're not 100% cleared town so it's a net positive for you to die than not to since it reduces the pool. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 863] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:37 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I think we should lynch today, just in case something happens but odds are that we are safe enough to sleep I guess ? No point in hammering tho I guess -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 864] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:37 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If I live tonight, they will kill one of citizen claims, and and scum kills one of citizen then it comes down to two choices, and that will be so hard because death will either say they are citizen or scum whether or not death is a wolf. We should lynch lol or death today -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 865] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:37 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff You're not 100% cleared town so it's a net positive for you to die than not to since it reduces the pool. Yeah but read my previous post, it will just be another stalemate minus me. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 866] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:39 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If I live tonight, they will kill one of citizen claims, and and scum kills one of citizen then it comes down to two choices, and that will be so hard because death will either say they are citizen or scum whether or not death is a wolf. We should lynch lol or death today I'm not sure I follow, death can't tell if someone's scum if he's town he detects only roles, not aligments. Besides, we're already down to two choices... Also I stand by my point : I'd rather you die 10000 times than vittae dying especially since me staying in the game means that dw has flipped scum for everyone to see -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 867] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:39 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff In another words, deaths scan unfortunately cannot be trusted whoever ends up dying. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 868] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:40 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Even if I come out of the thunderdome alive I'm not the best kill because by dying I clear a cit -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 869] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:40 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm not sure I follow, death can't tell if someone's scum if he's town he detects only roles, not aligments. Besides, we're already down to two choices... Also I stand by my point : I'd rather you die 10000 times than vittae dying especially since me staying in the game means that dw has flipped scum for everyone to see Ah yes, but a PR hiding in citizen claim list is the obvious wolf -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 870] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:42 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ah yes, but a PR hiding in citizen claim list is the obvious wolf Sure, but even t!dw isn't that likely to find him - if he goes at it at random, it's a 1/3. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 871] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 05:42 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I think we should lynch today, just in case something happens but odds are that we are safe enough to sleep I guess ? No point in hammering tho I guess We always sleep yes. If you're town then sleeping today makes Death's claim significantly harder to maintain because we can control who Death targets and force them to commit to a second scan. For example, if wolf-Death fake scans another player as mafia then we would only need to townread one of the both of you to know that Death is lying (ignoring role interference here). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 872] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:43 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff We always sleep yes. If you're town then sleeping today makes Death's claim significantly harder to maintain because we can control who Death targets and force them to commit to a second scan. For example, if wolf-Death fake scans another player as mafia then we would only need to townread one of the both of you to know that Death is lying (ignoring role interference here). Yeah I guess if he confirms a cit it's a win, true. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 873] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:43 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Wait no, because there's a scum among the cits -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 874] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 05:44 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah but read my previous post, it will just be another stalemate minus me. Yes and that's an improvement. You could be mafia. You're not confirmed to be town beyond any doubt. So you dying would remove that possibility for the rest of us and since you have a will you can put your thoughts in that. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 875] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:44 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah it doesn't really make his life harder, it boils down to WIFOM between if he cleared his scummate hidden amongst cits or if he cleared an actual cit -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 876] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:44 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If sleeping is what we should do then I will sleep. But I 100% believe we need to lynch today and I'll post why later when jm on pc -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 877] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 05:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Absolutely correct. DW has forced me into a thunderdome. right conclusion way long wrong reasoning -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 878] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah it doesn't really make his life harder, it boils down to WIFOM between if he cleared his scummate hidden amongst cits or if he cleared an actual cit Regardless I dont think we can trust deaths scan whether he is town or not -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 879] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:46 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff And that's why we should lynch death or lol today. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 880] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:47 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff right conclusion way long wrong reasoning Uh ? I took might've took a shortcut but by claiming I'm not the role I am, he kinda forced my hand. I mean sure I could've let him go away with the lie but that's beyond ridiculous, why would I ever do that -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 881] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 05:47 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Fine by me tbh. Death, if town, gets an extra scan or dies. Death, if wolf, has a more difficult claim to have to justify. In the off chance that you're lying (especially because your claim soft ccs Varcron's who was maybe tailored) you are more likely to be found and if you're town then less effort is spent tinfoiling you. If a wolf is Poisoned they will die as well. Minimal downside unless I'm missing something. learning that tailor only has one shot means ikarus' death confirms the world we live in regardless so it doesn't matter if they kill him or death or lol -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 882] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:47 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff right conclusion way long wrong reasoning oh you meant his post lol Yeah I plead guilty - didn't actually pay attention beyond the conclusion -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 883] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 15th, 2023 05:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah I guess if he confirms a cit it's a win, true. Sorry if I'm confused (which I honestly am lol), but from your point of view, how does Deathworlds ever confirm a cit? Isn't he supposed to be like 100 % scum to you, according to what you're saying? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 884] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff And that's why we should lynch death or lol today. that's not a good reason to lynch today -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 885] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 05:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah it doesn't really make his life harder, it boils down to WIFOM between if he cleared his scummate hidden amongst cits or if he cleared an actual cit Doesn't matter, we are likely going to choose who he targets and force him to follow through. And even if that target is a wolf, if we mistakenly townread them then it still benefits us in the end as scum-Death would die. Also there's the whole benefit of somebody who isn't guaranteed to be town getting cleared as town by dying. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 886] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 05:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff You're not 100% cleared town so it's a net positive for you to die than not to since it reduces the pool. if they killed lol or death then it confirms the other one is a wolf. it again doesn't matter anymore since ikarus' death does the same thing -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 887] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:49 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yes and that's an improvement. You could be mafia. You're not confirmed to be town beyond any doubt. So you dying would remove that possibility for the rest of us and since you have a will you can put your thoughts in that. I was speaking through my POV and I put myself in your shoes. That is correct. It is an improvement. But because I know I am town, I'd much rather see death or lol go because then I'll know who is the scum PR. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 888] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 05:49 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Uh ? I took might've took a shortcut but by claiming I'm not the role I am, he kinda forced my hand. I mean sure I could've let him go away with the lie but that's beyond ridiculous, why would I ever do that nah yeah confirmed 1 wolf in you/death because conflicting claims -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 889] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:50 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Doesn't matter, we are likely going to choose who he targets and force him to follow through. And even if that target is a wolf, if we mistakenly townread them then it still benefits us in the end as scum-Death would die. Also there's the whole benefit of somebody who isn't guaranteed to be town getting cleared as town by dying. > And even if that target is a wolf, if we mistakenly townread them then it still benefits us in the end as scum-Death would die. I don't follow, sorry. Yeah 1 people dying is always simplifying, true -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 890] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 15th, 2023 05:50 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Wait no, because there's a scum among the cits Yeah it doesn't really make his life harder, it boils down to WIFOM between if he cleared his scummate hidden amongst cits or if he cleared an actual cit ...what -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 891] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 05:50 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff if you guys are v/v then ikarus is a wolf 100% of the time so think on that for a minute -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 892] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 05:51 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If sleeping is what we should do then I will sleep. But I 100% believe we need to lynch today and I'll post why later when jm on pc Sleeping at mylo is a very common occurrence and basically always happens unless one it is literally impossible for at least one player to be a wolf since there are only upsides. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 893] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:51 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ...what Shut up, you're bad at pretending you're stupid. Please forfeit so I can sleep on my laurels. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 894] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:52 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff if you guys are v/v then ikarus is a wolf 100% of the time so think on that for a minute What is v/v? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 895] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:52 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff if you guys are v/v then ikarus is a wolf 100% of the time so think on that for a minute ... FFS I guess there's a world where bartender fucked with DW's feedback -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 896] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:53 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff oh fuck I thought I had the game solved -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 897] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:53 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff What is v/v? villager/villager aka town/town -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 898] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:54 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ahhhhhh but then vittae always die life sucks -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 899] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:55 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ...what There is one wolf among citizen claim between Mizery, Vittae and yourself because Pod flipped citizen. There are 3 citizens in this set up because I know I am town PR. Varcron flipped town PR. There is one town PR between lol and deb. Even if Varcron was tailored to be a PR from a citizen, it means nothing because that still means there is a wolf in citizen list -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 900] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:55 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff villager/villager aka town/town Ah thank you -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 901] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 15th, 2023 05:56 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Shut up, you're bad at pretending you're stupid. Please forfeit so I can sleep on my laurels. Uh, no. You're talking like Deathworlds is town, but that should be IMPOSSIBLE from town!Debbie's point of view, unless there is something I am missing - so if I am missing something, please do enlighten me. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 902] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:56 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ika coaching MM, the student has surpassed the master :cheesy: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 903] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 05:56 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff > And even if that target is a wolf, if we mistakenly townread them then it still benefits us in the end as scum-Death would die. I don't follow, sorry. Yeah 1 people dying is always simplifying, true Basically tldr doesn't matter if the person wolf-Death scans is a member of the mafia because it still closes their options off and if Death tries to call you w/w with their teammate and the teammate is townier than Death, Death will get voted anyway. Or just The scan will help anyway to some degree, there's way too many ifs and buts and moving parts and it's too late here fir me to consider every one but the scan will always be a new positive to town regardless of what alignment Death is. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 904] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 05:57 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff if you guys are v/v then ikarus is a wolf 100% of the time so think on that for a minute Since you like it when I act wolfy Imagine if I drugged death xD but I insist I did not do it -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 905] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:57 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Uh, no. You're talking like Deathworlds is town, but that should be IMPOSSIBLE from town!Debbie's point of view, unless there is something I am missing - so if I am missing something, please do enlighten me. blablablabla blablablabala I spread doubt and make it look like you're not making sense when you're simply talking to people from their pov which is obvious blablablabla I told you : you're bad at pretending you're stupid, you should stop hurting yourself. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 906] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 15th, 2023 05:58 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff There is one wolf among citizen claim between Mizery, Vittae and yourself because Pod flipped citizen. There are 3 citizens in this set up because I know I am town PR. Varcron flipped town PR. There is one town PR between lol and deb. Even if Varcron was tailored to be a PR from a citizen, it means nothing because that still means there is a wolf in citizen list Wouldn't scum!Deathworlds just... lie, though? Investigations are only reliable if we really have a town investigator lol -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 907] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:58 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Since you like it when I act wolfy Imagine if I drugged death xD but I insist I did not do it DONT SAY THAT ;( -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 908] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 05:58 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ... FFS I guess there's a world where bartender fucked with DW's feedback Or a role that can swap targets but yes. Another reason to sleep as Ikarus isn't confirmed town by any means here nor am I from an objective standpoint so my death would be a net positive too. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 909] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 05:59 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Wouldn't scum!Deathworlds just... lie, though? Investigations are only reliable if we really have a town investigator lol Like, please, tell me I'm not the only one finding MM lost 50 IQ in one night ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 910] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 06:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff DONT SAY THAT ;( Was it wolfy enough xD -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 911] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 06:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Or a role that can swap targets but yes. Another reason to sleep as Ikarus isn't confirmed town by any means here nor am I from an objective standpoint so my death would be a net positive too. Well since we stand to loose nothing anyway. skip -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 912] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 15th, 2023 06:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff blablablabla blablablabala I spread doubt and make it look like you're not making sense when you're simply talking to people from their pov which is obvious blablablabla I told you : you're bad at pretending you're stupid, you should stop hurting yourself. I'm not making it look like you're not making sense, I'm saying you slipped lmao. Vittae how does the scan help us if Deathworlds is scum? In that world, he could even be something that isn't investigator. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 913] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 06:02 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm not making it look like you're not making sense, I'm saying you slipped lmao. Vittae how does the scan help us if Deathworlds is scum? In that world, he could even be something that isn't investigator. Phrase it that way if you will, I don't even know why I'm bothering reading your posts at this point -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 914] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 15th, 2023 06:02 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ... FFS I guess there's a world where bartender fucked with DW's feedback OH Sorry, I'm stupid lmao, nevermind the last posts. That basically means everything is possible though... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 915] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 06:02 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Skip is at L-2, please don't hammer it as more time to go over mech and look at players would be useful -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 916] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 06:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff OH Sorry, I'm stupid lmao, nevermind the last posts. That basically means everything is possible though... Nope. I don't buy it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 917] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 06:04 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Skip is at L-2, please don't hammer it as more time to go over mech and look at players would be useful Mh, true, it might be better to leave it even for now. unvote -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 918] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 06:05 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Well gents, unless there's something else you need me for, I'll consider slipping in my not-so-hot but still deliciously comfortable bed -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 919] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 15th, 2023 06:07 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Nope. I don't buy it. It doesn't mean you're necessarily town, mind you, so don't buy it as much as you like. In this case, though, can't scum!Ikarus just re-mess with Deathworlds' feedback tonight? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 920] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 06:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff It doesn't mean you're necessarily town, mind you, so don't buy it as much as you like. In this case, though, can't scum!Ikarus just re-mess with Deathworlds' feedback tonight? Lol no I mean I don't buy it that you're genuine -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 921] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 06:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff It doesn't mean you're necessarily town, mind you, so don't buy it as much as you like. In this case, though, can't scum!Ikarus just re-mess with Deathworlds' feedback tonight? I don't think we give a single flying fuck to anyone's feedback tbh -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 922] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 06:09 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm not making it look like you're not making sense, I'm saying you slipped lmao. Vittae how does the scan help us if Deathworlds is scum? In that world, he could even be something that isn't investigator. Let's imagine an oversimplified world with nothing that could affect the scan for convenience sake. If Death is a wolf and he comes back tomorrow saying I'm a wolf for example, it would only take one of me and Deb to be villagery in order to get Death killed. If Death comes back calling somebody town, that person can't be Deb's partner. We could force Death to check, say, Deb's most likely wolf partner and then that's a difficult commitment for Death to make. That's the theory anyway, roles screwing with the results might make it harder for us in this setup but it's still a net positive. And even if the scan if useless the extra confirmed villager from the death (nobody at this point is guaranteed to be town including myself from an objective standpoint so it's a positive if I die) and the potential for a wolf to die from poison make sleep worth it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 923] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 06:10 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Let's imagine an oversimplified world with nothing that could affect the scan for convenience sake. If Death is a wolf and he comes back tomorrow saying I'm a wolf for example, it would only take one of me and Deb to be villagery in order to get Death killed. If Death comes back calling somebody town, that person can't be Deb's partner. We could force Death to check, say, Deb's most likely wolf partner and then that's a difficult commitment for Death to make. That's the theory anyway, roles screwing with the results might make it harder for us in this setup but it's still a net positive. And even if the scan if useless the extra confirmed villager from the death (nobody at this point is guaranteed to be town including myself from an objective standpoint so it's a positive if I die) and the potential for a wolf to die from poison make sleep worth it. Convoluted way to say that we don't actually care about the scan, but sure -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 924] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 15th, 2023 06:10 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Lol no I mean I don't buy it that you're genuine I mean, if you're town, there isn't much I can do to prove that I'm genuine, and if you're scum, you do whatever you want anyway, so evil or skill issue :P I don't think we give a single flying fuck to anyone's feedback tbh Considering the situation, that is indeed how it looks; but in this case, why should we skip? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 925] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 06:12 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Convoluted way to say that we don't actually care about the scan, but sure Yeah I was asked about the scan but like. The scan if Death is a wolf is the least important thing of the things sleeping gets us. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 926] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 06:12 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I mean, if you're town, there isn't much I can do to prove that I'm genuine, and if you're scum, you do whatever you want anyway, so evil or skill issue :P Considering the situation, that is indeed how it looks; but in this case, why should we skip? Actually yes, there was something you could've done : being genuine and not intentionally misinterpreting and deforming everything I said. Because an additional death is 1 less potential mislynch ? You really should stop it... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 927] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 15th, 2023 06:13 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Going to bed, night all. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 928] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 15th, 2023 06:13 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Let's imagine an oversimplified world with nothing that could affect the scan for convenience sake. If Death is a wolf and he comes back tomorrow saying I'm a wolf for example, it would only take one of me and Deb to be villagery in order to get Death killed. If Death comes back calling somebody town, that person can't be Deb's partner. We could force Death to check, say, Deb's most likely wolf partner and then that's a difficult commitment for Death to make. That's the theory anyway, roles screwing with the results might make it harder for us in this setup but it's still a net positive. And even if the scan if useless the extra confirmed villager from the death (nobody at this point is guaranteed to be town including myself from an objective standpoint so it's a positive if I die) and the potential for a wolf to die from poison make sleep worth it. Fair enough, sleeping ends up giving us more info no matter what. My vote is there in spirit, but I won't place it to avoid hammers, since we want that time to discuss. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 929] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 06:14 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah I was asked about the scan but like. The scan if Death is a wolf is the least important thing of the things sleeping gets us. Yeah that came a bit more aggressive than I intended, sorry lol Tbh I meant to ask too but figured it wasn't important since regardless of the scan there's good reasons to sleep. Glad to see I'm not completely off the charts bonkers insane yet :> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 930] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 15th, 2023 06:15 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Going to bed, night all. Same. Night everyone that is town, you'll know who you are. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 931] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 06:25 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Current situation Confirmed dead PoD - citizen Varcron - town PR (tailored?) Citizen claims (one of them is scum) Mizery MM Vittae PR claims (one of them is scum) ikarusdk loldebite - claims snitch deathworld - claims investigator (claims loldebte scanned tailor) SET UP summary - From this we know, 3 citizens and 3 Town PR and 2 scum PR. One scum in citizen claim, one scum in PR claim Although it IS POSSIBLE we have 4 citizens and 2 town PR, it is less likely as currently either death/lol is not telling the truth. IF WE SKIP Night kill speculation (1) Kills ikarusdk and the next day Citizen claims 3 people (33% chance to find wolf) PR claims 2 people (50% chance to find wolf) NK speculation (2) Kills one citizen and the next day Citizen claim 2 people (50% to find wolf) PR claims 3 people (33% chance to find wolf) NK speculation (3) Kills either death/lol and the next day Citizen claims 3 people (33% chance to find wolf) PR claims 2 people (50% chance to find wolf - but then I know exactly who the wolf is so it becomes me vs the other PR) IF WE LYNCH DEATH/LOL and we mislynch and they kill me the next day Citizen claims 3 people (33% chance to find wolf) PR claims 1 people (100% chance to find wolf) and we mislynch and they kill one citizen claim the next day Citizen claims 2 people (50% chance to find wolf) PR claims 2 people (50% chance to find wolf but then I know exactly who the wolf is so it becomes me vs the other PR) we lynch successfully the next day Citizen claims 3 people (33% chance to find wolf) PR claims are confirmed. Which of the scenario is beneficial to town, SKIP or we LYNCH -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 932] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 06:30 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Whether or I die or not tonight, I think we need to lynch death or lol. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 933] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 15th, 2023 06:36 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ikarus if we miskill there is no tomorrow, wolves win, lol -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 934] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 06:37 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ikarus if we miskill there is no tomorrow, wolves win, lol oh fuck me. After all that. I did not think about that. Time to take a break lol -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 935] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 06:38 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff PLS disregard my last post sad face -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 936] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 15th, 2023 06:40 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Now i sound wolfy af because i pushed for lynch that could result in wolves winning -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 937] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 08:19 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Now i sound wolfy af because i pushed for lynch that could result in wolves winning no, so sound newish to the game, and that's alright -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 938] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 08:20 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff what's super goofy is somewhere, somehow, people started conflating the investigator as an alignment cop, of which it is not, it's a role cop. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 939] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 15th, 2023 08:21 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff no, so sound newish to the game, and that's alright no you sound* -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 940] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 01:42 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm usually very sceptical of F5 crossvotes being w/w (especially after losing champs finals F5 with a correct wolf team to a bus and some heavy AtE) but in this case I think it's hard to justify this cross being w/w. If Death and Deb were w/w then the setup would have only 2 town power roles - a Chemist and a Bartender. That would mean one of our PR slots was a VT and one of our PR slots was a useless role so we would only have one "real" town power role. I think this is pretty unlikely and I also think two wolves in MM/ikarus/Miz is pretty unlikely as well. So this is almost never a bussing scenario. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 941] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 01:46 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm usually very sceptical of F5 crossvotes being w/w (especially after losing champs finals F5 with a correct wolf team to a bus and some heavy AtE) but in this case I think it's hard to justify this cross being w/w. If Death and Deb were w/w then the setup would have only 2 town power roles - a Chemist and a Bartender. That would mean one of our PR slots was a VT and one of our PR slots was a useless role so we would only have one "real" town power role. I think this is pretty unlikely and I also think two wolves in MM/ikarus/Miz is pretty unlikely as well. So this is almost never a bussing scenario. Ignore this, I got confused as I was thinking about them being t/t as I also don't think that's true. Partially for the bolded reason and partially because they soft-counterclaim each other with their roles even ignoring Death's result. If they're t/t then the team would need to be ikarus + either Miz or MM as ikarus is confirmed wolf in those worlds as a 4th PR claim. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 942] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 01:47 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Going to be posting a lot of IIoA still, my actual thoughts from now will be in my will if I die or posted D5 if I'm alive. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 943] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 01:53 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff what's super goofy is somewhere, somehow, people started conflating the investigator as an alignment cop, of which it is not, it's a role cop. If you scan a VT claim and get VT they're scanned town. If you scan a VT claim and get not VT they're scanned mafia. In this setup, smart use of an investigator has it function as an alignment cop. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 944] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 01:58 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ikarusdk I don't think you answered my question from before. Varcron soft-counterclaimed you in their role claim yesterday when they said they were a useless town PR. Why did you townread Varcron for their claim given that you yourself are a useless town PR, didn't it strike you as odd that there would be multiple? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 945] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 02:01 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I don't see a reason why Varcron would lie about it tbh. From D1 straight after Varcron claimed. Ika, there's a reason in your role card if you're town. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 946] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 16th, 2023 02:09 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ikarusdk I don't think you answered my question from before. Varcron soft-counterclaimed you in their role claim yesterday when they said they were a useless town PR. Why did you townread Varcron for their claim given that you yourself are a useless town PR, didn't it strike you as odd that there would be multiple? Because we have three town PR roles, and since I know mine is detrimental, when Varcron claimed his role as similar to mine, I did not think it was that weird. As mine is an utility/deception role, I guessed his one would be either a killing or another deception. Also I thought he could be a citizen pretending yo be a PR to draw heat. Either case, I townread him Also I townread him since day 1 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 947] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 16th, 2023 02:11 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Disregard last sentence, I was writing and editing on the phone and that last one is what I had originally -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 948] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 02:28 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Doubtful we have a setup with a town investigator and town bartender and no mafia investigator/scout/tracker. If Death/ikarus are t/t then the mafia team power roles are probably one or and one . If Death is town and ikarus mafia I'd expect Deb to be the likely mafia investigative role and ikarus to be the bartender. So it is worth noting that if Deb is a wolf and Death is town then if Deb flipped and has a role that isn't framer or bartender then the remaining mafia member is the one capable of messing up Death's results and must be exactly a mafia bartender. At which point the explicit existence of a mafia-aligned bartender in a game with one player claiming town bartender is hard to ignore and ikarus should be looked at carefully. Tl;dr Wolf-Deb flipping not tailor/Bartender implies a mafia bartender exists and implicates ikarus. Keep in mind if I'm dead. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 949] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 02:32 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Because we have three town PR roles, and since I know mine is detrimental, when Varcron claimed his role as similar to mine, I did not think it was that weird. As mine is an utility/deception role, I guessed his one would be either a killing or another deception. Also I thought he could be a citizen pretending yo be a PR to draw heat. Either case, I townread him Also I townread him since day 1 Thanks, didn't you think it was weird that there were two different useless power roles though? You knew that the setup only had 2-3 power roles at the time so did the thought genuinely never come to mind that it was very difficult to fit both your role and their expected one in this setup? I would expect almost anybody as town in your position to have at least some doubts internally about Varcron's claim, I'm surprised you seem to have none at all. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 950] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 02:37 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Doubtful we have a setup with a town investigator and town bartender and no mafia investigator/scout/tracker. If Death/ikarus are t/t then the mafia team power roles are probably one or and one . If Death is town and ikarus mafia I'd expect Deb to be the likely mafia investigative role and ikarus to be the bartender. So it is worth noting that if Deb is a wolf and Death is town then if Deb flipped and has a role that isn't framer or bartender then the remaining mafia member is the one capable of messing up Death's results and must be exactly a mafia bartender. At which point the explicit existence of a mafia-aligned bartender in a game with one player claiming town bartender is hard to ignore and ikarus should be looked at carefully. Tl;dr Wolf-Deb flipping not tailor/Bartender implies a mafia bartender exists and implicates ikarus. Keep in mind if I'm dead. Want to add that if Deb did flip a wolf role with redirection abilities then it's also not implicating for ikarus as town-Death could have been redirected onto a mafia tailor. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 951] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 02:38 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Loldebite given your role claim what stopped you from doing anything to draw the mafia nightkill this game? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 952] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 02:40 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff deathworlds talk me through in detail your thoughts process EoD1 and how you came to fullclaim your role so late. What stopped you from claiming / hinting PR much earlier where you wouldn't have to out as Investigator? What made you wait so close to EoD that you felt you specifically had to out your full role not to die? How good of a mech player are you? Do you personally believe that you made a mech misplay at EoD1? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 953] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 02:45 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Random thought : why is CFD re-using a racist slang ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 954] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 02:46 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Loldebite given your role claim what stopped you from doing anything to draw the mafia nightkill this game? I did try and have stated so lol -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 955] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 02:49 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff In case it's relevant, I was intending to switch to PoD at the last minute EoD1 but I ran over time and got blocked by the thread locking (EoDs on this site end at :00 and not :01 and the new post alert was stopping me from being able to post without refreshing 3+ times per post on my shitty mobile internet so I ended up missing the vote). Sorry if Death is town, shouldn't have left it as late as I did to try to switch because town-Death going over there would have been really bad for us. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 956] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 02:49 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I did try and have stated so lol Sorry, must have missed it. Mind quoting the post where you tried / said so? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 957] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 02:51 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Posts stating that I did try and how : Course I was, my role does nothing until I die That WOULD be funny lol but no it's just the least bad DW could come up with after the panicky claim yesterday I was hoping to die for my claim, but yeah, chemist definitely is scarier. SIgh. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 958] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 02:54 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff In case it's relevant, I was intending to switch to PoD at the last minute EoD1 but I ran over time and got blocked by the thread locking (EoDs on this site end at :00 and not :01 and the new post alert was stopping me from being able to post without refreshing 3+ times per post on my shitty mobile internet so I ended up missing the vote). Sorry if Death is town, shouldn't have left it as late as I did to try to switch because town-Death going over there would have been really bad for us. Don't excuse yourself for you ultimate read on dw. I'll be checking wagons soon, IIRC PoD train was : ika, MM & DW -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 959] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 02:54 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'll get you the post where I tried to draw attention too while I'm at it -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 960] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 02:57 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Random thought : why is CFD re-using a racist slang ? There's been some discussion on this on MU (as well as the term "lynch" as it has some racist connotations in the US I believe so many sites started to phase it out). I use the term "flash wagon" instead of CFD, it's self explanatory what it means and imo sounds better when used (wagon already being common slang for a bunch of votes on a person) even before getting to the issues there are with the term CFD. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 961] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 03:02 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff OKAY WE GOTTEM BOYZ Damn, thought I had quoted his claim. Anyway that was my (apparently sorry) attempt at screaming "Lies, in fact I am T invest !" in mafia ears -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 962] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 03:02 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'll get you the post where I tried to draw attention too while I'm at it Please do. Basically looking for anywhere you either softed your role on D1 or played in a way on D1 that would encourage the wolves to NK you. Like personally if I had Snitch I probably fakeclaim a different PR on D1 or otherwise do *something* that makes me the top kill target that night for the mafia. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 963] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 03:04 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Damn, thought I had quoted his claim. Anyway that was my (apparently sorry) attempt at screaming "Lies, in fact I am T invest !" in mafia ears Yeah I flagged this reaction to the claim in my ISO of you overnight, makes sense now given your claim. Anything else from D1? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 964] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 03:05 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Tbh I didn't expect Varcron would draw that much attention, and from my limited experience powerful TPRs are frequently keeping quite low to avoid attention so that's kind of what I was trying to do I didn't believe fakeclaiming would get be killed, guess I was wrong -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 965] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 03:06 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Don't excuse yourself for you ultimate read on dw. I'll be checking wagons soon, IIRC PoD train was : ika, MM & DW It was still somewhat of a mess up even if Death was a wolf, me letting the vote stay on them was a huge risk. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 966] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 03:07 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff get me* killed Nah I don't think there's anything else, once again I was trying to roleplay the very-sneaky-TPR-that-totally-slips-by-accident -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 967] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 03:08 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Damn, thought I had quoted his claim. Anyway that was my (apparently sorry) attempt at screaming "Lies, in fact I am T invest !" in mafia ears Wait. Why not explicitly claim power role here? You're trying to get yourself killed, why not say "I'm a town investigative and this is a lie" explicitly instead of softing? (Obviously not claiming Snitch explicitly) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 968] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 03:12 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If you scan a VT claim and get VT they're scanned town. If you scan a VT claim and get not VT they're scanned mafia. In this setup, smart use of an investigator has it function as an alignment cop. I really don't see how but whatever tbh What's VT tho ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 969] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 03:14 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I really don't see how but whatever tbh What's VT tho ? Vanilla town / Citizen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 970] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 03:15 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb did you believe that your efforts on D1 made you a reasonably likely nightkill? Genuine answer please, if you're town and don't think so then say as much. But if you answer no please tell me what stopped you from pushing harder to be the NK. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 971] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 03:17 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Wait. Why not explicitly claim power role here? You're trying to get yourself killed, why not say "I'm a town investigative and this is a lie" explicitly instead of softing? (Obviously not claiming Snitch explicitly) Tbh I didn't really consider it. Hadn't thought of what'd happen on the next day if I didn't die, if I had I probably would've hard claimed. But 1) I wasn't sure he was lying, in fact I was quite sure that he really was invest but doubted that he was town (Oracle being kind-of-invest but not really I could see both of us being town still) 2) I was far from convinced it'd work, if someone else pushed that I'd definitely think it's manipulative to do so that close to EoD -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 972] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 03:18 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb did you believe that your efforts on D1 made you a reasonably likely nightkill? Genuine answer please, if you're town and don't think so then say as much. But if you answer no please tell me what stopped you from pushing harder to be the NK. Likely, no probably not. But I thought I made myself a very plausible kill -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 973] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 03:20 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Wait just realized varcron died N1 So have I ^^ glad to be back in there! Varcron THE TRADITION MUST BE UPHOLDEN lol -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 974] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 03:20 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Likely, no probably not. But I thought I made myself a very plausible kill Two things then. 1. Why didn't you do more to get yourself N1ed? 2. I've got a time sensitive question for you. I want you to answer it immediately as soon as I post it. Are you around and capable of doing that rn? Question should only take 2 mins to answer. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 975] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 03:22 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Tbh I didn't really consider it. Hadn't thought of what'd happen on the next day if I didn't die, if I had I probably would've hard claimed. But 1) I wasn't sure he was lying, in fact I was quite sure that he really was invest but doubted that he was town (Oracle being kind-of-invest but not really I could see both of us being town still) 2) I was far from convinced it'd work, if someone else pushed that I'd definitely think it's manipulative to do so that close to EoD Your reaction at the time made it seem very much like you were certain he was lying though, unless that was an act? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 976] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 03:24 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Two things then. 1. Why didn't you do more to get yourself N1ed? 2. I've got a time sensitive question for you. I want you to answer it immediately as soon as I post it. Are you around and capable of doing that rn? Question should only take 2 mins to answer. 1. Simple, I didn't know what to do that wouldn't make it obvious I'm trying to draw attention Fire off, I'll be refreshing like a maniac -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 977] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 03:24 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Your reaction at the time made it seem very much like you were certain he was lying though, unless that was an act? Well that was the idea, I wanted to look like someone that knew he was probably lying -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 978] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 03:25 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Bad phrasing but hopefully you get the idea -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 979] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 03:26 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff 1. Simple, I didn't know what to do that wouldn't make it obvious I'm trying to draw attention Fire off, I'll be refreshing like a maniac Loldebite TIME LIMITED QUESTION Please post your last will, in full, right now. I'm sure you have one if town as you stated you were a plausible NK. You have ~2 minutes. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 980] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 03:27 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Loldebite TIME LIMITED QUESTION Please post your last will, in full, right now. I'm sure you have one if town as you stated you were a plausible NK. You have ~2 minutes. MIZERY INTERACTED WITH : vittae x a LOT debbie dw pod ika NEVER w/ varcron and MM (maybe at EoD tho ?) miz/vittae : not S/S PoD INTERACTED WITH : vittae ika dw varcron debbie miz mm PoD/Mizery not S/S (#194) PoD/MM probably not S/S, if you guys are gz, great theatrics Being a snitch, I believe the odds that town has both a snitch and an invest are below avg. And that's it for now. I'm very likely to revisit both, tho. Disapointing, I know -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 981] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 03:28 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Oh I included "And that's it for now. I'm very likely to revisit both, tho." - that's not part of the LW -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 982] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 03:29 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I chose to include PoD related notes regardless because I figured other people could look at the same interactions to try figure out if PoD/MM was actually S/T, as I said think I'm bad at figuring that out -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 983] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 03:30 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ok good stuff, thank you for your response. Was hoping that if you were a wolf that might catch you off guard. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 984] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 03:31 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff As a enough estimate Deb, how many town games have you played? I know it's a fairly small number. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 985] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 03:35 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff As a enough estimate Deb, how many town games have you played? I know it's a fairly small number. On FM ? About half a dozen I'd say. Almost certain it's below 10 yet but getting close FTR I used to play IRL mafia a shit ton back when I was 17 or so. Some of my friends are very bad at body language and I relied on that lot, that's why I still consider myself somewhat of a FM noob. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 986] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 03:38 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I appreciate that I'm asking you tonnes of questions Deb, I can stop if it's getting annoying. I'm just trying to get stuff out of you that makes your alignment more obvious basically. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 987] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 03:39 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I might've overstated how much I played back then, it'd be a shit ton for the working me of now, back then it felt like far too little mafia :D Basically we had a weekly roleplaying night on saturday evenings but since some of our crew (two of our girlfriends at the time) weren't fond of TRPGs when those came along, we played mafia instead. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 988] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 16th, 2023 03:39 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Thanks, didn't you think it was weird that there were two different useless power roles though? You knew that the setup only had 2-3 power roles at the time so did the thought genuinely never come to mind that it was very difficult to fit both your role and their expected one in this setup? I would expect almost anybody as town in your position to have at least some doubts internally about Varcron's claim, I'm surprised you seem to have none at all. I was actually surprised to hear Varcrons claim. My initial reaction was that Varcron is scum deception PR. Then as I started writing down that list where certain roles are not town friendly, I realised actually it isn't all that surprising to have two roles whose night action is bad for town because it covers more than half the roles available. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 989] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 03:39 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff On FM ? About half a dozen I'd say. Almost certain it's below 10 yet but getting close FTR I used to play IRL mafia a shit ton back when I was 17 or so. Some of my friends are very bad at body language and I relied on that lot, that's why I still consider myself somewhat of a FM noob. Ok good stuff. Yeah I understand, I came to FM from a background where I had played mafia with mostly friends and very polarised players as well. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 990] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 03:41 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I appreciate that I'm asking you tonnes of questions Deb, I can stop if it's getting annoying. I'm just trying to get stuff out of you that makes your alignment more obvious basically. No harm done, that's pretty much the game. Besides, you're making a very convenient excuse for procrastinating work and I should thank you for it - don't worry that you're getting me behind schedule tho. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 991] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 03:41 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I was actually surprised to hear Varcrons claim. My initial reaction was that Varcron is scum deception PR. Then as I started writing down that list where certain roles are not town friendly, I realised actually it isn't all that surprising to have two roles whose night action is bad for town because it covers more than half the roles available. Ok I can buy this thank you. Given you know you're 100% town now from your perspective do you think that one of Deb and Death is more or less likely from a setup balance perspective? Also, did you do anything on D1 that either hinted at your role deliberately or that you wouldn't have done if you didn't have your role? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 992] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 03:44 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff No harm done, that's pretty much the game. Besides, you're making a very convenient excuse for procrastinating work and I should thank you for it - don't worry that you're getting me behind schedule tho. Ok great stuff but feel free to either say you'll respond later or are too busy now. Like ideally I'd like to keep getting answers but if you're bust I respect that, I'm being quite demanding. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 993] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 03:55 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Loldebite ikarusdk Go over everything you've done on D1 this game. I want your thoughts in detail at every point. I want you to tell me stuff that you never posted, the things going through your head, the things that a wolf wouldn't think but you as a villager absolutely would. Tell me about your overall strategy - what did you focus on, was there anything your role did to affect the way you thought, how were you planning to find mafia and win this game? What about confidence - were there times you thought the game was easy or times you thought we were screwed? How did your reads change over the course of the game and why? Just thoughts. Give me a lot of thoughts you thought that a mafia member wouldn't think but you definitely did think. (I suggest ISOing yourself and going through it) This is a very time-demanding question so if it's taking up a lot of your time I'm happy for you to stop part way through the Day as long as you've answered a reasonable bit or take a long time to answer this question. You can skip it if you really want to but this is a proven very effective way to sort people's alignments. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 994] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 03:56 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Loldebite ikarusdk Go over everything you've done on D1 this game. I want your thoughts in detail at every point. I want you to tell me stuff that you never posted, the things going through your head, the things that a wolf wouldn't think but you as a villager absolutely would. Tell me about your overall strategy - what did you focus on, was there anything your role did to affect the way you thought, how were you planning to find mafia and win this game? What about confidence - were there times you thought the game was easy or times you thought we were screwed? How did your reads change over the course of the game and why? Just thoughts. Give me a lot of thoughts you thought that a mafia member wouldn't think but you definitely did think. (I suggest ISOing yourself and going through it) This is a very time-demanding question so if it's taking up a lot of your time I'm happy for you to stop part way through the Day as long as you've answered a reasonable bit or take a long time to answer this question. You can skip it if you really want to but this is a proven very effective way to sort people's alignments. Also if anybody else would like to answer this they are very welcome to. If you're town then it's a very effective way to demonstrate that. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 995] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 04:00 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Loldebite ikarusdk Go over everything you've done on D1 this game. I want your thoughts in detail at every point. I want you to tell me stuff that you never posted, the things going through your head, the things that a wolf wouldn't think but you as a villager absolutely would. Tell me about your overall strategy - what did you focus on, was there anything your role did to affect the way you thought, how were you planning to find mafia and win this game? What about confidence - were there times you thought the game was easy or times you thought we were screwed? How did your reads change over the course of the game and why? Just thoughts. Give me a lot of thoughts you thought that a mafia member wouldn't think but you definitely did think. (I suggest ISOing yourself and going through it) This is a very time-demanding question so if it's taking up a lot of your time I'm happy for you to stop part way through the Day as long as you've answered a reasonable bit or take a long time to answer this question. You can skip it if you really want to but this is a proven very effective way to sort people's alignments. I'll get onto it after I finish wrapping up a wagonomics post -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 996] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 04:03 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also if anybody else would like to answer this they are very welcome to. If you're town then it's a very effective way to demonstrate that. deathworlds in particular I'd also like to hear an answer from because of the importance of the solve. Marshmallow Marshall I'd probably appreciate a response from you as well please so I could follow your logic better. Mizery you can if you want to but it's unlikely to change much about how I read you so w/e. Feel free to if you'd like though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 997] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 16th, 2023 04:03 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ok I can buy this thank you. Given you know you're 100% town now from your perspective do you think that one of Deb and Death is more or less likely from a setup balance perspective? Also, did you do anything on D1 that either hinted at your role deliberately or that you wouldn't have done if you didn't have your role? I didn't try hint at my role at all. I was genuinely trying to do guesswork with what I had on day 1. I knew I could not use my night action at least in day 1 so even if I had a different role, I don't think I would've done anything different. As to answer your question about deb vs death. This is a hard one to answer but I will try. If deb was a snitch, that means we can take Varcron at face value, more or less, that he was indeed town chemist. This aligns with what Varcron was hinting at about his role. But this does not mean mafia wouldn't have a tailor. Because I am 100% town bartender from my POV, this means town PR set up is Snitch(investigative) chemist (killing) bartender (deception). If deb was a tailor as death claimed, that means Varcron is tailored from something but what could it be? Was he really a PR? Was he a citizen? If he was a citizen then there is another PR hiding in citizen claim and since there are 3 of you already, I doubt this was really the case because this means deb and death are w/w. I think this narrative is least likely at this stage. This means I think Varcron was really a town PR. But whatever his role was, he did claim the night action was bad for town and this means his role was eother killing or deception. Since I am already in deception category, I think he was a killing role, meaning there is NO tailor, or tailor changed Varcron to something he actually was. Both scenario results in town invest, killing and deception in my mind. Which is more likely, I do not know. I am sure there is something I am missing here and I am trying to find the breadcrumb but it is 2am and my mind is sleepy -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 998] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 04:03 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'll get onto it after I finish wrapping up a wagonomics post Great stuff, ty. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 999] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 16th, 2023 04:08 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Loldebite ikarusdk Go over everything you've done on D1 this game. I want your thoughts in detail at every point. I want you to tell me stuff that you never posted, the things going through your head, the things that a wolf wouldn't think but you as a villager absolutely would. Tell me about your overall strategy - what did you focus on, was there anything your role did to affect the way you thought, how were you planning to find mafia and win this game? What about confidence - were there times you thought the game was easy or times you thought we were screwed? How did your reads change over the course of the game and why? Just thoughts. Give me a lot of thoughts you thought that a mafia member wouldn't think but you definitely did think. (I suggest ISOing yourself and going through it) This is a very time-demanding question so if it's taking up a lot of your time I'm happy for you to stop part way through the Day as long as you've answered a reasonable bit or take a long time to answer this question. You can skip it if you really want to but this is a proven very effective way to sort people's alignments. I think I better leave this up to when I am up tomorrow. I will make sure to a reply in the morning. I am in bed right now and ISOing myself in a post is going to be painful on the phone in bed -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1000] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 04:15 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yesterday wagons from my POV : powerofdeath (3 [L-2]): Marshmallow Marshall, deathworlds, ikarusdk Mizery (1 [L-4]): Varcron deathworlds (3 [L-2]): Vittae, powerofdeath, Loldebite Marshmallow Marshall (1 [L-4]): Mizery From a neutral POV : powerofdeath (3 [L-2]): Marshmallow Marshall, deathworlds, ikarusdk Mizery (1 [L-4]): Varcron deathworlds (3 [L-2]): Vittae, powerofdeath, Loldebite Marshmallow Marshall (1 [L-4]): Mizery I'll be skipping the dead's votes because we don't actually care what's been going on in their heads now that they're dead. Mizery I don't think s!miz ever gets off the wagon for a coinflip, because it makes her look worse for no gain. Because of this there's WIFOM in there, of course, but still I don't believe it's worth it for scum. Heck it's hardly worth it for town, too, but I understand this is miz relying on vittae which she wouldn't do if she wasn't town - even if they are S/S. Deathworlds DW's vote is self-pres. Marshmallow Marshall MM's vote is convenient for him as that's the slot that scumreads him the most, he says that he's even more confident in his scum read of mizery if PoD flips scum (#329) but mostly votes him because of OMGUS it seems ? Feel free to clarify your thought process at EoD. I'd tag you if I knew any way other than going on your profile and manually copying your ID, something I CBA doing rn lol. Ikarusdk ika's vote didn't really consider DW as an option, he mentioned not wanting to mislynch miz or MM and that he felt good about MM so I assume he was comfortable voting along him. Later on he states that he'd rather mislynch a citizen than a town invest : I'd switch vote to Pod whose claim is citizen rather than death whose claim is investigator A reasoning that I don't agree with but that does make some sense, especially from a mod player perspective were mechs are much more important. Vittæ Initiated the PoD counterwagon on DW and I know I said I think vittæ's a relentless busser but I don't think even him would bus that hard on D1, which means he's just town from my POV and thus trying to solidify wagons - which he succeeded at with miz. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1001] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 04:16 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff From a setup balance PoV Varcron is very likely to genuinely be a Poisoner/Chemist. I also think Varcron, regardless of role, very likely didn't submit any action due to the lack of a will. I don't think Varcron ever fakeclaims as VT. Especially because that would again mean that we only have 2 power roles and one of them would be totally useless (ikarus). If Varcron did fakeclaim for some reason though and it was proven to be the case, Death would almost certainly have to be town for setup balance reasons - I think this is very unlikely to be the case though. My theory is that Varcron didn't understand that Chemist is an extremely powerful role (possibly the single most powerful role on the list for the record), didn't understand what we meant when we said it was powerful and/or thought they would be redirected (you still shouldn't holster in that case but I get it) and chose to holster. I don't think Varcron was tailored. I think if Varcron was a weaker role and tailored then ikarus is almost always a wolf (and may be claiming Varcron's original role) but the setup is again really weak on the TPR side ESPECIALLY for mafia to have such a powerful role in Tailor and I think the way Varcron acted suited their flipped role (I was very concerned D1 that Varcron was chemist and outed but I didn't know for certain. Chemist does fit in this setup extremely well from a balance PoV though). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1002] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 04:16 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I think I better leave this up to when I am up tomorrow. I will make sure to a reply in the morning. I am in bed right now and ISOing myself in a post is going to be painful on the phone in bed Completely understandable, ty. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1003] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 04:18 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I didn't try hint at my role at all. I was genuinely trying to do guesswork with what I had on day 1. I knew I could not use my night action at least in day 1 so even if I had a different role, I don't think I would've done anything different. As to answer your question about deb vs death. This is a hard one to answer but I will try. If deb was a snitch, that means we can take Varcron at face value, more or less, that he was indeed town chemist. This aligns with what Varcron was hinting at about his role. But this does not mean mafia wouldn't have a tailor. Because I am 100% town bartender from my POV, this means town PR set up is Snitch(investigative) chemist (killing) bartender (deception). If deb was a tailor as death claimed, that means Varcron is tailored from something but what could it be? Was he really a PR? Was he a citizen? If he was a citizen then there is another PR hiding in citizen claim and since there are 3 of you already, I doubt this was really the case because this means deb and death are w/w. I think this narrative is least likely at this stage. This means I think Varcron was really a town PR. But whatever his role was, he did claim the night action was bad for town and this means his role was eother killing or deception. Since I am already in deception category, I think he was a killing role, meaning there is NO tailor, or tailor changed Varcron to something he actually was. Both scenario results in town invest, killing and deception in my mind. Which is more likely, I do not know. I am sure there is something I am missing here and I am trying to find the breadcrumb but it is 2am and my mind is sleepy Yellow is just wrong : in that case we know nothing of the 2nd scum's role. In fact we can't even be sure of DW's role. Red is innacurate too : me being tailor doesn't mean I necessarily tailored Varcron. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1004] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 04:19 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff So my tl;dr conclusion is that if a tailor exists they likely didn't use their action on Varcron last night. I think that makes it pretty likely that if Death is town, they were Bartended by the mafia last night and given a fake role (still think Deb and Death are exactly t/w though). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1005] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 04:20 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff So my tl;dr conclusion is that if a tailor exists they likely didn't use their action on Varcron last night. I think that makes it pretty likely that if Death is town, they were Bartended by the mafia last night and given a fake role (still think Deb and Death are exactly t/w though). Tbh I wonder how anyone arguing otherwise would explain me switching to DW yesterday -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1006] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 04:20 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Anyway, I'll grab something to eat then ISO myself -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1007] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 04:21 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'll do that in chronological order, starting from SoD -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1008] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 04:23 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff It's worth noting that we can verify ikarus' role if necessary by directing him to sabotage Death's scan. It would inform us that ikarus (or their wolf partner if mafia but this is much less likely) is genuinely a Bartender even if we don't know their alignment. Doubt this will be useful tbh but pointing out that there is a way for Death to verify ikarus' claim and not just the VTs. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1009] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 04:26 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff It's worth noting that we can verify ikarus' role if necessary by directing him to sabotage Death's scan. It would inform us that ikarus (or their wolf partner if mafia but this is much less likely) is genuinely a Bartender even if we don't know their alignment. Doubt this will be useful tbh but pointing out that there is a way for Death to verify ikarus' claim and not just the VTs. For an example of what I mean we can say to ikarus "make Death's target show up as a town aligned armoursmith" and that verifies that ikarus isn't fakeclaiming a role. Not likely to be as useful as a VT scan but will consider it later -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1010] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 04:32 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Mech does somewhat suggest that Death/ikarus are unlikely to be t/t but not strongly enough that I'd consider it to be something worth acting on rn. But it would be weird for ikarus to be town without a mafia investigative role to block and impossible for Death to be town when there's a mafia investigative role unless the second mafia investigative role is specifically a Bartender. If ikarus/Death are town/town then mafia have similar or possibly completely mirrored town power roles to us (ignoring chemist). Maybe town having Invest/Bartender/Chemist and mafia having Invest/Bartender to Mirror town is the gimmick of this setup. I could see that. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1011] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 04:34 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Can tailoring affect day deaths? Like hypothetically if I'm a tailor and I tailor Miz N1 and we vote Miz today, would she flip as her real role or as her tailored one? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1012] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 04:46 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Sorry if I'm missing a couple of posts, I'm on mobile and I disabled the new post notifications after how disastrous it was at EoD so I'm not always realising they were posted. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1013] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 04:56 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Sorry if I'm missing a couple of posts, I'm on mobile and I disabled the new post notifications after how disastrous it was at EoD so I'm not always realising they were posted. Yeah that feature is quite tedious at EoDs -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1014] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 04:57 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Can tailoring affect day deaths? Like hypothetically if I'm a tailor and I tailor Miz N1 and we vote Miz today, would she flip as her real role or as her tailored one? I assumed as much -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1015] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 05:02 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I didn't try hint at my role at all. I was genuinely trying to do guesswork with what I had on day 1. I knew I could not use my night action at least in day 1 so even if I had a different role, I don't think I would've done anything different. As to answer your question about deb vs death. This is a hard one to answer but I will try. If deb was a snitch, that means we can take Varcron at face value, more or less, that he was indeed town chemist. This aligns with what Varcron was hinting at about his role. But this does not mean mafia wouldn't have a tailor. Because I am 100% town bartender from my POV, this means town PR set up is Snitch(investigative) chemist (killing) bartender (deception). If deb was a tailor as death claimed, that means Varcron is tailored from something but what could it be? Was he really a PR? Was he a citizen? If he was a citizen then there is another PR hiding in citizen claim and since there are 3 of you already, I doubt this was really the case because this means deb and death are w/w. I think this narrative is least likely at this stage. This means I think Varcron was really a town PR. But whatever his role was, he did claim the night action was bad for town and this means his role was eother killing or deception. Since I am already in deception category, I think he was a killing role, meaning there is NO tailor, or tailor changed Varcron to something he actually was. Both scenario results in town invest, killing and deception in my mind. Which is more likely, I do not know. I am sure there is something I am missing here and I am trying to find the breadcrumb but it is 2am and my mind is sleepy Thanks. Thoughts on the possibility that if you're town and Death is town, there could be a second mafia bartender instead of a tailor that messed with Death's results? I'm considering the possibility of a setup where the mafia have an almost mirrored set of roles to us (invest/bartend/chemist town vs invest/bartend mafia) and this is basically the only possible setup where you and Death can be t/t and there is a mafia role that your night action could be used on (otherwise your role is legitimately useless instead of having a tiny purpose in the setup which I find pretty unlikely? Why would you get a role as town if the only purpose is to hurt town?). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1016] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 05:06 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I assumed as much That's frustrating to work around but good to be aware of ig. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1017] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 05:10 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb is the focus on associative / partnership reads something you do a lot or something new to this game? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1018] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 05:12 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb you can tag people by just typing @username fyi -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1019] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 05:36 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb is the focus on associative / partnership reads something you do a lot or something new to this game? Define "do a lot"... It's not my first time trying myself at it, pretty sure I tried that right off the gates. Deb you can tag people by just typing @username fyi Does that actually work ? Loldebite -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1020] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 05:36 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Fucking hell it's been THAT SIMPLE THE WHOLE TIME ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1021] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 06:14 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Define "do a lot"... It's not my first time trying myself at it, pretty sure I tried that right off the gates. Does that actually work ? Loldebite Do a lot as in rely significantly on it for your solving like you have this game. You left it in your will for example instead of more conventional attempts to solve. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1022] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 07:08 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Open question to everyone: Does wolf-Death choose to fake a Tailor scan on Deb instead of Mizery or MM? If so, why? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1023] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 07:57 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Do a lot as in rely significantly on it for your solving like you have this game. You left it in your will for example instead of more conventional attempts to solve. Wait it's what do you mean more conventional ? Is it not ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1024] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 07:59 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Open question to everyone: Does wolf-Death choose to fake a Tailor scan on Deb instead of Mizery or MM? If so, why? MM is his ally, mizery had hard claimed cit much earlier than I softclaimed PR -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1025] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 08:23 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Wait it's what do you mean more conventional ? Is it not ? It's less conventional than just going "I think so and so is mafia because they made this scummy post" directly instead of comparing people. It's unusual for a player to focus so strongly on partnership reads to the degree they don't include any other types of normal no nonsense reads in their will. So I'm interested in if that's typical for you to solve like this and also why you chose to forego putting anything else in there besides partnership reads, did you not have any normal direct reads you wanted to leave behind? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1026] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 08:25 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff It's less conventional than just going "I think so and so is mafia because they made this scummy post" directly instead of comparing people. It's unusual for a player to focus so strongly on partnership reads to the degree they don't include any other types of normal no nonsense reads in their will. So I'm interested in if that's typical for you to solve like this and also why you chose to forego putting anything else in there besides partnership reads, did you not have any normal direct reads you wanted to leave behind? Mh yeah actually that's the method that makes the most sense to me, for some reason. I usually list any and all individual tells/feels I find/get in my readslist anyway, I didn't have that on hand when I wrote my LW before going to bed. I had planned to revisit it & include an up to date readslist (notably because your interaction with misery changed a lot of stuff, not to mention the flip, obviously) but I got lazy... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1027] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 08:28 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Mh yeah actually that's the method that makes the most sense to me, for some reason. I usually list any and all individual tells/feels I find/get in my readslist anyway, I didn't have that on hand when I wrote my LW before going to bed. I had planned to revisit it & include an up to date readslist (notably because your interaction with misery changed a lot of stuff, not to mention the flip, obviously) but I got lazy... Yeah, that's fine. Mind talking about the things that you would have updated it with in more detail? The me/Miz interactions for example and stuff the flip changed for you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1028] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 08:51 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah, that's fine. Mind talking about the things that you would have updated it with in more detail? The me/Miz interactions for example and stuff the flip changed for you. Tbh I'll get to it during my self-review, is it fine if you have to wait for that one ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1029] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 09:01 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Tbh I'll get to it during my self-review, is it fine if you have to wait for that one ? Completely fine by me to wait, yeah. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1030] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 16th, 2023 09:48 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Loldebite ikarusdk [and MM pinged in a later post] Go over everything you've done on D1 this game. I want your thoughts in detail at every point. I want you to tell me stuff that you never posted, the things going through your head, the things that a wolf wouldn't think but you as a villager absolutely would. Tell me about your overall strategy - what did you focus on, was there anything your role did to affect the way you thought, how were you planning to find mafia and win this game? What about confidence - were there times you thought the game was easy or times you thought we were screwed? How did your reads change over the course of the game and why? Just thoughts. Give me a lot of thoughts you thought that a mafia member wouldn't think but you definitely did think. (I suggest ISOing yourself and going through it) This is a very time-demanding question so if it's taking up a lot of your time I'm happy for you to stop part way through the Day as long as you've answered a reasonable bit or take a long time to answer this question. You can skip it if you really want to but this is a proven very effective way to sort people's alignments. I came in here with the intent to ISO others, but I actually kinda like that idea. I've never seen it happen, but it cannot hurt to go through it, especially since we have time. It can only work if basically everyone does it, though, and I'm particularly interested in Mizery doing it because: - if I'm right and she's just scum, it should become obvious and assuming we lynch correctly among deathworlds/debbie, we win - if I'm wrong and she's actually town, it should also become obvious that my read of them, which is largely based on dissonances in their play, is wrong, and then we move on I'll get to it myself soonish -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1031] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 09:57 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I came in here with the intent to ISO others, but I actually kinda like that idea. I've never seen it happen, but it cannot hurt to go through it, especially since we have time. It can only work if basically everyone does it, though, and I'm particularly interested in Mizery doing it because: - if I'm right and she's just scum, it should become obvious and assuming we lynch correctly among deathworlds/debbie, we win - if I'm wrong and she's actually town, it should also become obvious that my read of them, which is largely based on dissonances in their play, is wrong, and then we move on I'll get to it myself soonish Great! This is a slightly modified version of a technique a veteran player from my home community known for his extreme read accuracy suggested to me to use it Champs Finals back when I played it Champs for late game scenarios. I used it in that game and it was in large part responsible for me being able to get a wolf eliminated in F5 (and the wolf that ended up winning Champs that year no less) and correctly locking in another scumread player as town so I have a lot of faith that it can be a very effective method for finding people's alignments when done right. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1032] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 16th, 2023 09:58 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Marshmallow Marshall MM's vote is convenient for him as that's the slot that scumreads him the most, he says that he's even more confident in his scum read of mizery if PoD flips scum (#329) but mostly votes him because of OMGUS it seems ? Feel free to clarify your thought process at EoD. I'd tag you if I knew any way other than going on your profile and manually copying your ID, something I CBA doing rn lol. EXCUSE ME? The one being OMGUS'd wasn't PoD, but ME lmao. His only reason to vote me was that I pressured him to give reads based on something that wasn't boiling down to "they suspect me". I clearly remember having to ask him three times what his case against you was, even putting color and getting the quotes I wanted him to address, and he just didn't, which striked me as a token of dishonesty from him lol. Had he not been lynched, today would probably have been 90 % about him anyway. You may go back in my ISO yourself if you so desire, and it's something I'll probably cover myself in the self-ISO thing. (also you can just put @ before my exact name to mention me lmao, I used to do the same as you with the mention tag before I realized it was really just that simple) Loldebite -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1033] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 16th, 2023 09:59 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Great! This is a slightly modified version of a technique a veteran player from my home community known for his extreme read accuracy suggested to me to use it Champs Finals back when I played it Champs for late game scenarios. I used it in that game and it was in large part responsible for me being able to get a wolf eliminated in F5 (and the wolf that ended up winning Champs that year no less) and correctly locking in another scumread player as town so I have a lot of faith that it can be a very effective method for finding people's alignments when done right. if it works I'm stealing it :P -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1034] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 10:18 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff if it works I'm stealing it :P I'm happy to discuss my experiences with it in more detail postgame if you're interested! Don't want to go into too much detail now as I don't want to be telling the wolves everything they could be doing to try to game the system. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1035] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 16th, 2023 10:23 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm happy to discuss my experiences with it in more detail postgame if you're interested! Don't want to go into too much detail now as I don't want to be telling the wolves everything they could be doing to try to game the system. Alright ^^ definetly interesting Also, I'm currently working on that post; I'm not sure I have time to finish it before I have to go, so it might take a little while before it's out and I say anything, but it should definetly be done in the next hours -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1036] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 10:26 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Alright ^^ definetly interesting Also, I'm currently working on that post; I'm not sure I have time to finish it before I have to go, so it might take a little while before it's out and I say anything, but it should definetly be done in the next hours Totally fine, take as much time as you need but I appreciate you getting it done. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1037] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 11:08 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Here's my answer to your request, Vittæ. I omitted fluff/joke posts when I felt there was nothing more than fluff/jokes. WARNING : This is a VERY big spoiler ! Hey there ! I'm kinda mad at myself for missing SoD but I'll make up for it soon. Gotta work a bit before I catch up, tho. I was originally planning to be there at SoD but I was trying a new game and well time flew, when I got out of it it was 2 am already (about the hour I had planned to get to sleep after SoD) and I couldn't reasonably get into the game without forfeiting sleep entirely, so I was kinda mad at myself. I had planned that my boss would ask some specific kind of work that morning so I expected not to be available, but it turns out that day was relatively quiet. Great time to note that lynching is NOT mandatory, I assume this is achieved by voting "skip" ? Thought it was important to mention that skipping was allowed because it usually isn't here AFAIK, and it was a good opportunity to ask how to do so in the process. I might've misread/misunderstood but I'm quite sure citizen is one of the very few role that scum CANNOT get Yeah I had completely misunderstood his point there, I thought for some reason he was implying that the Hidden Loyalist could roll Citizen too, I guess reading is hard. Which brings me to my point : should we make citizens claim to clear out PoE ? I know, I know, it is lame and cringe... So, should we be doing it ? Ah yes, that could actually be considered breadcrumbing I guess, as will my "IDC if all TPR die" stance later on. Idea was that all citizen will claim citizen immediately but scum would have to decide on a stance right out of the gate which might've put them in a difficult position. On another note, since you (Vittæ) and I seem to be the only ones online and active now that mizery's gone, feel free to engage me about whatever. To help jumpstart that, here's a rushed fresh out of bed readslist : cute people (T leaning) Ikarusdk (seems genuinely eager to engage in actual discussion to me or much better at pretending than I'd expect, and also cute posts) Varcron (Pretty good feeling about the interaction with deathworlds, above vittae for now because I know them a very tiny bit better) Vittae (Good feeling about the slot, I sense cute vibes. Yeah that might be irrational, sue me) boringly ordinary (odds are that idk how to read these but I'll pretend for now) PoD (Not much to think about but I get the tiniest of cute vibes and ) deathworlds (I agree that the mech is NAI, and nothing felt especially good or especially bad) mizery (I don't believe in judging off openings anyway, reads list is nice but honestly I'm pretty sure she would've done as much as any alignment) uglies (S leaning) MM (I very much dislike their last post to date. Sorting roles in utility buckets alone is worth doing, had I done that in my first game ever I would've seen you were scum much faster :) the post in question : Lol saying you know me a tad bit is quite generous imo, considering how I only really know you from the archive and from the fact you replaced out from some game years ago xD. Glad to see you existing among us, though! [...] Perhaps there is something I am missing (might have to do with the fact I should sleep lol), but apart from the "don't use janitor abilities and the like if you're town" message, which is probably necessary and relatively useful, this whole post seems a little... empty, in spite of its size. Where do you want to lead us with this? I feel like we should wait until we have something before going into setup speculation like this, considering it's straight up page 1. Pink part seemed a bit disdainful/confrontational/contrarian for my taste, I couldn't help but read it kind of like "yeah, uh no bruh wtf u saying" which as a first interaction ever felt a bit much. Red orange part felt exceedingly hypocritical considering we were on the first page of D1, which is most often full of jokes, fluff and otherwise unrelated garbage and that MM has partaken in some of that aspect (I DEMAND HYPE etc...). The both of these combined made me very wary of MM for the majority of D1. Yes. Actually, do scum have a day chat too ? If they do the idea crumbles, probably. I assume scum would have to have at least one of theirs fakeclaim citizen, if they do play it accurately we don't gain much except an extra WIFOM layer as a freebie. Regardless, we might gain something and as such it's worth discussing. If you're afraid about town power roles getting outted & gutted, I wouldn't be. Citizens have the majority over scum, so we don't actually need any PR to win, provided we're good enough. That is assuming no extra NKP. In some games I've played before, scum only had a night chat, hence my assumption that they did not. Pink part in my mind was "If you're afraid about TPR getting gutted at night, I'm not. In fact I'd be glad !" but I obviously couldn't say that without claiming. I figured that because of my role being investigative, we probably had another not-so-useful role (belief strengthened by varcron's claim at the time), which meant that at worst in my mind we had 1 other good TPR and myself, so 66% chance for scum to target a useless TPR if they so chose. So yeah I really wasn't scared at all. I didn't expect Varcron to make that claim as a killing role. I don't often assume someone is wrong when playing mafia (which admittedly has gotten me inaccurately turbo nitro hard tunneling on... some of this forum's least bright members). In fact, off the top of my head I can't recall a single time I've make that assumption. I guess I think assuming people are wrong is... wrong :D Another thought in the same vein that crossed my mind recently, when reading MM's D2 posts is a twist on a latin proverb, Being wrong once happens. Persevering in being wrong is probably just being scum. Shit. Well this is disapointing. What I didn't dive into but thought about here is that IMO scum never ever double claims cit as on top of being potentially harder than claiming their real role and being able to use that information to suit their goals that might let town create a towncore of PRs which sounds desastrous for scum, but it seemed not worth investigating further anyway. Well I guess we could go for a 37.5% chance to lynch scum by randoming PRs ! Lol. Mh actually I wonder if scum both claiming PR is a good idea, I'm starting to think that there is no good option for scum if the setup has only 2 TPRs. Ah, well I did mention it after all lol. Meh, not really. I wouldn't dare say I have a lot of experience in anything FM related tbh but I've played a fair few games with MM, definitely more than anyone else in here. We also interact a fair amount outside of FM, which is where the feeling of familiarity comes from. I would say that, scum MM is most comfortable in soft powerwolfing position. He doesn't really want to be townleader or be in any kind of spotlight but he does enjoy having a position from which what he says is paid attention to, and from that place he seeds in pro-wolf reasonable doubt (which notably boils down to making excuses from scummy things that scum do). But take this with a grain of salt as, now that I think about it, that seems based off of mostly a single game lol Someone i don't remember who reacted to that by saying that to them MM is definitely a powerwolfer. I don't think I've seen it first hand although it is true that they were close in OUaTitW, my first game. I still think that wasn't quite powerwolfing because he stick to a relatively neutral or passive stance and never vehement or really leading IMO. Lol, you've nicknamed me Deb, too, or have you simply heard it elsewhere (perhaps even in the thread lol) ? Anyway, not so glad to see that I'm still being read as scum-leaning tho :D Here's (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/50199-S-FM-343-Trip-to-the-Library-Gamethread) my latest game to date And here's (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/50355-S-FM-344-(Ladder)-President-II) the one before that And FTR that one (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49251-S-FM-334-(Ladder)-Once-Upon-a-Town-in-the-West-(Small-Town-Mafia)-(13P)) was my first FM ever. I've played most games that took place in between, if you wanna have an extensive look. Oh and sorry - I should've asked first but I was too happy to have the opportunity - are you cool with me spelling your name Vittæ ? Yeah IIRC I was being scumread by most in my first couple games, one of said cost us the victory because a fellow town voted me alongside mafia despite me being mechanically confirmed. That game did numbers on me. This cracked me up ngl Yeah I recall laughing at PoD's post, tbh at very first it felt very genuinely annoyed in a "idc what you think I'm not town reading that shit" way, which I liked. Retrospectively, I should've trusted that feeling, but at the time I was scared of the player, I must say. Not knowing them I can't tell if that's just D1 banter or if there's something going on. I gotta say I don't really agree with or understand the decision that he's the best slot to pressure either, especially. Especially considering how you voted them first thing in the morning, then explained why after catching up and then posted a readslist. Would you mind explaining your rationale for the vote ? On the other hand PoD's reaction is quite surprising too, but I get the feel that this is a gambit of sorts or something After a second look it felt a bit too annoyed and hence my wondering. Retrospectively I assume the abrasive stance was intentional to cause a chasm. If that's the case, well done and thank you. [PoD] very clearly [has] not posted more content, in fact they've made their refusal to comply - for now - quite clear. Interesting ! Yeah, at that moment PoD reminded me a lot of Renegade, which I dislike playing with because it seems to me that he's simply refusing to discuss his thoughts and that annoys me a LOT. Kind of a MUCH SOFTER version of a player I met in Deck Mafia - Hyperion I think it is ? - who simply refuses to talk and reacts with gifs of mew from pokemon exclusively. I think that impression has massively shaped my view of PoD, probably wrongly so. Let's call it the Gambit of the Renegade : refusing to explain and avoid telling anyone what you think. Because that's what I recall renegade (not) doing :D Maybe gambit isn't the proper term ? Yeah well I don't know for you but I have little use of emotions that can be faked as easily as that. Meh, I guess that post about ikarus probably isn't that easy to fake, though. Still, I don't know what do you with it so it doesn't add to my "content" pile. What to do with it* UGH Lying is always scummy. I SOMEHOW missed that sentence, fuck me must I look idiotic. Didn't pay it much attention back then but retrospectively MM is very in line with his post dissing PoD and DW that I had hated here. All the following is [content]: [multiple quotes from PoD] And this is not even cherry picking your posts, it's just that all the interesting posts at the end of p4 are yours I really liked all those 4 posts when I first read them, and they had struck me as much more impactful/to the point than the first few couple (except the one about ikarus). Yeah, fuck activity reading. On that note : yes, I might appear online about 13h per days or more. I (almost) always have a couple tabs open with the game, that I check from time to time. I'm not actually all that active. Only reason I'm mentioning it is because it has been raised already and well, yeah, I probably should tell you about it while I can, just to clarify. Seriously, tho : fuck activity reading. JuSt UsE iNvIsIbLe MoDe :weed: No. Fuck you too. If you think I spare games I signup for any time before it's actually started, you're off the wrong piste. There's a reason I can't come up with roles for KRCs, and it's because I don't do that. Yeah, 4 minutes, unless I was already working on it in that last post ? But I would've said so... mhhh Oh. Oopsie ! Yeah I was a bit mad there, I literally told so to be extra clear and avoid these kinds of misunderstanding and yet... Frustrating. I got over it quickly, tho. Unlike... But I shan't spoil. Is this a joke ? Cherry on top is that posting a readslist with reads like that is one of the reason I'm scumread by other people, apparently. Overall, tho, I do like that readslist. I'd probably put MM lower and vittæ higher. Let's see what becomes of it once I've caught up. This was replying to varcron's readslist where I was at the far end saying "Loldebite for now is my top scum read, but something is off with them. Everything they have said so far in my eyes has in some capacity been scummy, and I can't place my finger on why yet, however this read will likely develop in the future." and that felt so gratuitous I was baffled. I had just woke up so seeing a "scum because shrug" kinda tilted me. Like I still can't fathom that "I can't place my finger on why yet... " Sure, about a few posts about the ENTIRETY of it ?? Kay so let me get this straight. You're quite convinced I'm scum and so does [I]literally everyone else. My only contribution was a mechs talk where I literally showed that mass claiming on d1 sucked ass. And you wanna do just that ? Wtf ? This is just episode 420 or something of me having no fucking clue what mizery's doing. I dislike her, I find her very hard to read :( FOR FUCKS SAKE CAN YOU READ THE GAME BEFORE POSTING STUPID SHIT ? My LITERAL LAST POST was answering that question already AH YES ! My reaction to MM's stupid post reusing ika's stupid argument that I wrote a wall in 4 minutes... When I could understand it from ika's perspective where he thought he figured out something and jumped on the gun, just like I did with vittæ, someone exterior to the argument SHOULD'VE been critical of the premise and challenged it by paying attention to the context. Obviously MM hadn't done that or he would've read the post just before and found me announcing the wall. Because I was already wary of MM, as mentioned, this made me pretty angry as it felt so puny and small, almost pathetic. This strenghtened my suspicions of MM. This is EXACTLY the kind of plausible shit spreading that you do as scum lol Yeah, it felt just like that first post about PoD & DW, dissing me without giving the diss the attention it warrants. Can't tell if having an aneurysm or trolling Probably a bad sign Reply to mizery's "we're already winnin'" comment. It really didn't feel like it at the time, at least from my POV... I figured it was mizery trolling but chose to answer anyway. Tssk, guess you can read after all, woohoo ! That push looks founded on bad reasons, PoD's interaction with me was much more than OMGSUS and clearly as defensive as you claim, cuz I wasn't pushing them nor even considering it. From my POV PoD contributed in both greater quality and greater quantity than say, Mizery. What do you think of that slot, quite comfy at 0 votes ? Reacting to MM realizing his 'mistake' and pushing PoD. Pod's vote on me was nowhere near OMGUS, I still don't know where that's coming from. Retrospectively it looks planned, they had already discreetly dissed PoD and now they build on it, justifying that they're that suspicious for basically no reason because of an early "bad feeling". I feel like I was giving MM a lot of slack actually considering how much of what they've said/done I disliked. Too much respect/assumed goodwill perhaps ? [QUOTE=Loldebite;974031]Well, uh, thought your read on me had decayed already but I read back and I've no clue why I thought that. Yeah no, something's off. There's no way you've seen me at the far end of everyone's readslist and was content with putting me in the TR range for a mere mech post all the while saying "it ain't much, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯". Especially when your bottom read is based solely on another mech post and honestly the differences are not that great. Definitely not great enough that you can wave your hand and say "Nah all those 6 people are wrong, I can feel it !". Reacting to MM's list where I'm... GREEN :o It really felt like I was getting pocketed, calmy saying "yeah that guy's town" after NOT finding the flaw in the ikarus thingy and disregarding everyone else's opinion felt weird. In a bad way. Retrospectively, TMI ? For SOME reason the thought didn't cross my mind then... Shame. ... Okay ? Is there any reason you're refusing to engage with me ? Miz replying with the bucketstrat copypasta to my honest question to them... That falls in the line of the refusing-to-engage thingy that I hate, hence me insisting. Also, I should mention : as much as I want not to, I really like this post. Reacting to Mizery's post critizicing MM's (lack of) committed positions. I didn't want to like mizery's posts because I hate that she refuses to answer questions on a whim, still this felt right and fall right in line with what I thought of MM at the time. I... Can't say I agree tbh. His readslist is basically "debbie wrote a wall in 4 minutes so he's scum" and "MM is scum because debbie is scum". It IS content, but I fail to see how that's impressive. None of the more recent posts felt particularly interesting either, except maybe the part about PoD and AtE. This feels as much as a pocketing attempt as MM's comments about me tbh. Reacting to Vittæ congratuling ika for his posts, it felt really over the top to me as he'd done what I'd expect from literally anyone. Yes, I've been disappointed already. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that ika's already doing better than paopan or PQR or whatever but that's not worthy of praise IMO. That's the bare fucking minimum. Guess it's not me then fucking hell I hate the renegade meta Reacting to Mizery refusing to reply to vittæ, I had hopes that she simply didn't trust me enough but that was not it. I find it quite frustrating in that it feels like you're getting denied the possibility to play the game... Btw do you reckon it's better to mislynch now or tomorrow ? I was still thinking I could be the lynch, so that's really a question I asked myself and wanted other people's opinions on. Damn that's a good idea ! How did I not think about it in my previous games ?! Pissed off at miz still refusing to discuss ANYTHING with me :'( There's a difference between being nice and being lenient, I guess it is a thin one. Ika's accusation did feel legit but that's the kind of stuff that scum love to pick up on to spread doubt and paranoia. Admittedly, that's very likely not what ika's been doing here, but I'm fairly confident that a newbie scum would also be delighted to have (seemingly) valid reasons to cause a mislynch and that's why I wasn't convinced. Yeah I was thinking of MM when I wrote that lol. As said here, I think ika's post could come from any alignment so it was really just a bad post. Not bad looking, but bad. Okay change of plans, here's a short insight that goes through my head and figured I might as well throw it in there rather than note it somewhere and get back to it in an hour I've been thinking about pairings and I think that Vittæ/Mizery is probably not S/S (based on their interaction today, mostly, can't recall exactly what made me think that but I'll get back to it when I can), whereas Vittæ/MM or Mizery/Vittæ seemed very plausible. That's why I'm very intrigued to see Mizery push MM now and how people will respond to that. Oh god ANOTHER typo ? Pretty sure that last one's supposed to be MM/Mizery... Yeah I was interested in mizery pushing MM because I thought I could see through it or get a clue if it was bussing. Once again you claim there is causation where there is none, I thought I had seen an inconsistency and jumped on it, that's all. How have I been distancing myself ? To this day I still don't understand what reaction PoD saw and didn't like. I don't think I've been distancing either but idk Yeah it seems like I overestimated how confident people were of their reads. It IS interesting that mizery's vote's still here, especially since she's said she doesn't believe I'm scum anymore. For some reason I was convinced ika had voted as well, probably because red = vote in my mind lol Anyway let's have another quick mech talk : is it better to skip today lynch tomorrow or lynch asap ? I'm personally hesitant At that time I was considering strongly MM/Mizery as a scum team, which is why I mentionned Mizery's vote. It's also then that I realized I probably wouldn't be the lynch, unlike what I had started thinking shortly after waking up (varcron's readlist being about the first thing I read probably played a huge part in that impression). looool nah that's too big where's the catch At the time I had a really hard time believing he'd think that. I don't think I'd be comfortable bussing my only scum mate on D1, even softly, especially if I consider them vastly more experienced than I am. I think I also tend to be quite conservative with my votes, but I can't blame him for ignoring that. It didn't feel worth mentioning at the time because there was bigger fish to fry IMO. Why is MM out of here ? In your last readslist to date he was below PoD Reacting to #352 where DW stated the lynch was between Miz, PoD and me, despite having MM quite low on his first readslist and never mentioning them again. PoD & you My "hot take" answer to Vittæ's question about scum pairings. While that seemed plausible to me, especially in a s!PoD world, I didn't think it was the likeliest but I figured such a position would prompt interesting reactions. Vittæ DOES strike me as someone that'd bus PoD hard to gain the town cred. I'm starting to get a little pissed at all those "if debbie flips scum" comments. So I'll take it on me to compensate : If MM flips scum pod looks much better IMO If pod flips scum then mizery looks better (because of #194) and vittae worse for the same reason If Mizery flips scum then PoD is mostly cleared, again because of #194) When I flip town MM will get free towncred (omg Paranoie back at it again !) !!! As it stands now I'm voting PoD if we do decide the lynch is better today I was quite stupid. This is a post I have a hard time getting back into context now. Retrospectively it seems OBVIOUS that PoD is LHF, yet I still decide he's the best vote regardless of how hard I hated on MM... Yet I figured that the PoD flip would give us a lot of info, on DW, on Vittæ and on MM. I see. I feel you (also, fuck sb) Reacting to DW saying he "can't read MM, sorry". Reading it now, it's quite funny lol Yeah MM has also redeemed himself to my eyes (good job, nice pocketing & fuck you just in case - Paranoie). Miz I have to be honest I struggle to read Shit, I recall reading a post of MM where I went THAT'S the MM I wanna see, FINA FUCKING LY but it looks like I didn't actually respond to it directly. Found it, that was the post in question, where I really liked the interaction with PoD on MM's part. ... in which you state that you need some time to get the ball rolling. I must say I like the fact you're basically acknowledging my point on your mech talk vs Debbie's while still defending yours, though. + some townpoints with decay :) Then there is a good chance you're actively unhelpful? Defending yourself and being in constant reaction isn't scum-hunting and doesn't help town, so you're basically saying you do not wish to help here. I would rather say it's weird half the town scumread Loldebite and put so much faith in it while he really hadn't done much to be hated for yet lol. Your read is literally based on this: which isn't even that much of a scumtell lol. You are making the whole world revolve around yourself (not in the "you're egoist" sense, but in the "you fail to see further" sense), which tells me you're afraid of making mistakes and thus play very conservative. Do y'all think scum is currently voting together and if not why wouldn't they Note to self : include a fucking snapshot of votes in these kind of comments. Wait shit, that's a good point, I was convinced that vittæ was bussing but the scummiest I have rn voting pod is DW So why am I voting pod I had taken a look at the wagons and realized that I didn't really like it : MM, ika, DW & me were onto PoD but I TR ika and MM at that point, so if PoD was probably not getting bussed as I thought they were. Which in turn meant that they were probably not scum after all, and besides the DW train seemed to face more resistance so it felt better to vote there. ngl I'm lynching TPR over cit any day Another comment that tries to be daring Turns out I actually never replied to any of the interactions between miz & vittæ that I liked, I'll get to it now then -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1038] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 11:18 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Mizery posts that I liked Oh no I had votes on me I'm so pressured oh no what am I going to do What Intel do you find from a pod v flip Mizery prodding me with a question, blessed day ! Perhaps the wolves committed to bussing (short lived) mindmeld Those are truly all townies sir Wolfy throw ate I have consolidated the wagons, but at what cost And the various piloting/coaching Is this towny Slightly Miz is town and shouldn't be touched with harmful night actions. Which I felt good about for the both of you tbh So all in all I was comfortably putting Vittæ in back in town with mizery, but I found the EoD switch a bit weird and it eroded the confidence a tiny bit. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1039] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 11:21 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Mizery posts that I liked Mizery prodding me with a question, blessed day ! (short lived) mindmeld And the various piloting/coaching Which I felt good about for the both of you tbh So all in all I was comfortably putting Vittæ in back in town with mizery, but I found the EoD switch a bit weird and it eroded the confidence a tiny bit. Thanks for both posts, I'm reading through the longer one now. Can you tell me in this post why the you felt good about these specific things please? Besides the mindmeld, I don't understand what made you read those posts as villagery. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1040] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 11:43 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also ftr for people answering my question - I wasn't asking for a detailed self ISO, I just recommended reading your own ISO to refresh yourself while talking about your own thoughts and reads if that wasn't clear. Just a big paragraph of thoughts splurge going into everything youve thought in as much detail as possible throughout D1. The way Deb has done it works for the most part though, at least gives me a lot to think over and question. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1041] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 11:47 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Actually Deb. Can you walk me through your read on me over the course of this game in excruciating detail? You've changed on me a lot and I want to know the thought processes behind it more and how you progress from calling me town to snap voting me to having me as town (?) to having me in your bottom 2 to having me as so confident town that at start of day today you made several shocked posts at the implication that I was a wolf to then believing I was mafia again (?) and then treating me as town again. This progression is wild lol. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1042] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 11:50 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Actually Deb. Can you walk me through your read on me over the course of this game in excruciating detail? You've changed on me a lot and I want to know the thought processes behind it more and how you progress from calling me town to snap voting me to having me as town (?) to having me in your bottom 2 to having me as so confident town that at start of day today you made several shocked posts at the implication that I was a wolf to then believing I was mafia again (?) and then treating me as town again. This progression is wild lol. I believe this is, to no exaggeration, the wildest series of read changes on a player I have ever seen in my time playing mafia and we're only in the middle of D2. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1043] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 16th, 2023 12:02 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Alright, here we goooooooooOOOO!!! So have I ^^ glad to be back in there! Varcron THE TRADITION MUST BE UPHOLDEN (The "tradition" refers to the fact Varcron constantly gets lynched D1, to the point it became a running gag on the site; this is half a joke and half a way to draw potential reactions, either from Varcron himself or from people who would question my vote, but we ended up going entirely elsewhere) First posts, trying to get the game going through RVS, which I believe is the best way to gather information early on; sometimes, you get immediate information, but basically all the time, you can come back to the early D1 interactions generated by RVS using the information from later flips and make a lot of sense from it. I know I've solved games that way before, even though I don't remember the games themselves lmao. Unfortunately, basically noone wanted to get into RVS. Vittae seemed to say "we should make things progress" without actually doing anything to make things progress, which was striking me as performative/"look at me, I'm being proactive!", so basically suspicious. Hence the questions, which I actually expected to be poorly answered by Vittae at that point, so I was getting ready to charge and apply pressure: Although at the same time I'm really wanting the game to get going ASAP. I agree - but how are you planning to proceed? Are you making the game progress atm? What's your experience with forum mafia? Their reply was quite satisfactory, though (explaining their stance with the site, also explaining that they tend to be a high poster and that they're restraining themselves), and opened the way to meaningful discussion with a question about Mizery's opening post ("thank god I thought I was going to rand wolf again"). I liked where it was going and thought that if the "high poster" part were true, it would show soon enough, and that if it weren't, it would also be obvious and easy enough to realize. Then came Deathworlds' setup speculation, which looked very big for very little actual content in the middle of page 1. I have historically had issues with reading people who make long, logical, analytic posts, because they tend to be coherent and I used to associate coherence/truth with town way too much, so I'm constantly wary of wall posters. I think I even vaguely remember getting fooled by Deathworlds himself that way, so I was pretty pinged by his speculation post; apart from the public service announcement of not using anti-town power abilities as town, it was more or less a "nothingburger", to use his own favorite expression. Hence I questioned him, got the not exactly satisfying answer "I like setup speculation, it's fun, and now is the time to get into it", so since I was getting nothing of note, I just put him in my scum lean mind category and went to question Ikarus, since he said he had enjoyed reading Deathworlds' post. Ikarus' statement, now that I think about it, was pretty spontaneous and genuine-looking, and I quite like it now; but back then, I was mostly interested in a potential association with Deathworlds, so I was in a "is he scum" mindset rather than in an objective observation mindset, I guess. Then Loldebite posted a mech post themselves, but in a way that felt more useful (there was actual talk about what we should or shouldn't do regarding claims, it was more game-related rather than just "in the air"), so I asked Ikarus what he thought of it compared to Deathworlds', and that's when it seems Loldebite began being suspected by many, including Ikarus of course, for reasons I frankly could not understand (hence my later questioning of PoD when he hard pushed him). Ikarus' point itself was understandable and convincing at first, though: Loldebite's big post had indeed appeared 4 minutes after his last post, which was impossible to have thought and typed immediatly. It turned out Debbie had said he was working on a post, though, so there was in the end nothing suspicious, and I was left with pretty much nothing. I started feeling like Ikarus was town due to the way he seemed to be reading people (thinks people are wrong = thinks they're scum, which is what I believe he applied to scumread Loldebite, even though I'm actually still not sure), but waited on a reply from him about his reasons for scumreading Debbie before committing to my read. I think that reply never actually came, but other things (namely POD and Mizery) took my attention, so I kinda forgot about it and remained with my vaguely good impression of Ikarus (which, now that I re-read the situation, seems to make sense). Between the questions to Ikarus, I had been checking POD's ISO, since I felt like he had said basically nothing noteworthy in spite of him having like 4x my post count at the time (I remember checking postcounts and seeing me having 13 posts when he had 50 or so). Reading his ISO more closely, I found his posts were basically all either useless or entirely self-related (as in, they were all pertaining to someone who had said something about him, in a very defensive manner), so I decided to pressure him and basically try to lead town!him to becoming useful or to lead scum!him to outing himself by being unable to generate anything genuine-looking. It was especially useful in my mind since he was pretty much unattacked (not seriously, at least) at that point in the game, so there was new info to get here. Since he was hellbent on remaining hyperdefensive and strictly refused to address things that weren't just about immediatly defending himself (I had asked him about his read on Mizery, both in order to get him to speak up on something that wasn't directly related to himself and to evaluate the possibility of a POD/Mizery scum pairing, since I was also scumreading Mizery), I concluded he was absolutely not trying to "unrust" himself and his scumdar like a rusty townie would, and that he rather was just an awkward wolf who didn't know how to interact and thus froze on anything that wasn't strictly about himself. (I also remember Vittae expressed a very similar reasoning at some point in D1, and I had a big mindmeld feeling that made me quite significantly townread them, whereas I had been careful not to townread them too quickly for being logical/useful before.) The fact I scumread Mizery at that time also boosted my confidence in my POD scumread, since it REALLY seemed (and honestly still seems when I reread it) that he was purely and simply refusing to interact with her in any way, as if he were afraid of outing her: Since you're blatantly ignoring my question, I put color on it and give you the post: what do you say of this? The fact you're straight up ignoring the question despite it being asked in posts you reply to (and those posts are short, so you can't miss it all the time) makes me think we might be in a Mizery/POD world. Apart from this, why do you townread Ikarus enough to call him townlocked? This confidence starkly contrasts with the "I need time to get my scumdar going again" and the hyperdefensiveness you showed before. I believe we shouldn't take POD to LYLO. From that point onwards (or rather, from the point where POD failed to answer the question that was colored in red), I was pretty much sold on a scum!POD, and was confident in my POD/Mizery theory. [Going back in time a bit] About Mizery herself, nothing had really caught my attention, since she was just acting like her own relatively lighthearted NAI self, until this: Were already winning this game no need to play it so straight What makes you say this? :thinking: It starkly contrasted with 1) Mizery's own previous posts, which didn't contain any magic super confident solves that could explain this level of confidence and 2) my own feeling about the gamestate, considering I definetly hadn't anything confident yet (this was before I heavily scumread POD, I was just beginning to pressure him at the time and didn't know it would lead where it did), at least not enough to be anywhere close to saying we were winning. I then thought Mizery had TMI (and upon reread, I have the exact same feeling, and the knowledge of how EOD went only amplifies it tbh), and sensed a dissonance between the level of confidence in her previous posts and the level of confidence this post showed. This snowballed with Mizery's "all your reads are pending" post in which she basically discredited me without drawing any conclusions, which was really just throwing shade; plus, the confidence level it implied once again felt really weird. She never really addressed this, so this feeling basically continued until the mess that was EOD, POD's flip and then Varcron's death threw me into a bit of a confusion - and rereading D1 rekindled my suspicions against her about the confidence level dissonance, btw, although it's weaker than it used to be due to POD's flip. Might be worth looking into further, but I digress. At the time, my suspicions on Mizery and POD were intertwined, mostly due to POD's behavior and especially to his complete refusal to address Mizery. OKAY that was longer than I expected lol, and I should eat now. Going back to D1 made me draw two conclusions: - I still suspect Mizery, and shouldn't forget about her - POD's lynch was basically inevitable and "deserved", without wanting to be rude; knowing he was town, reading his posts feels really weird, because that means he was misplaying so hard as a non-noob You better actually read it lmao -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1044] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 12:56 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Thanks for both posts, I'm reading through the longer one now. Can you tell me in this post why the you felt good about these specific things please? Besides the mindmeld, I don't understand what made you read those posts as villagery. Basically boils down to Mizery being much more active and invested in town's becoming than previously -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1045] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 01:04 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Actually Deb. Can you walk me through your read on me over the course of this game in excruciating detail? You've changed on me a lot and I want to know the thought processes behind it more and how you progress from calling me town to snap voting me to having me as town (?) to having me in your bottom 2 to having me as so confident town that at start of day today you made several shocked posts at the implication that I was a wolf to then believing I was mafia again (?) and then treating me as town again. This progression is wild lol. NGL being volatile in reads is kind of something I kind of encourage myself to do, with the rationale that if something's really off I'll grow out of it, eventually. Part of the reason is becoming harder to pocket (because I felt like that was a soft spot of mine) and part of the reason is getting harder to anticipate, thus provoking less thought-ahead reactions that are much more interesting. And if it gets me harder to read, that's a bonus for when I'll finally rand wolf :D I'll give a short version here to debrief some I thought were wrong impressions. First impressions were town then quite confident town then I got worried about you bussing and at one point you really were bottom 2 but that was short lived and you climbed up somewhat but I was still wary, high of bottom half I'd say. Then at EoD 1 miz started making sense again and I kinda felt this was thanks to you, at least in part, and you seemd to actively encourage her to be even more towny so you climbed all the way up again. At SoD 2 I got worried you were poisoned but from that point on you never really got lower. Right now you're probably my most confident TR, the only world where I conceive you being scum is the one world where DW is town. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1046] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 01:07 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff NGL being volatile in reads is kind of something I kind of encourage myself to do, with the rationale that if something's really off I'll grow out of it, eventually. Part of the reason is becoming harder to pocket (because I felt like that was a soft spot of mine) and part of the reason is getting harder to anticipate, thus provoking less thought-ahead reactions that are much more interesting. And if it gets me harder to read, that's a bonus for when I'll finally rand wolf :D I'll give a short version here to debrief some I thought were wrong impressions. First impressions were town then quite confident town then I got worried about you bussing and at one point you really were bottom 2 but that was short lived and you climbed up somewhat but I was still wary, high of bottom half I'd say. Then at EoD 1 miz started making sense again and I kinda felt this was thanks to you, at least in part, and you seemd to actively encourage her to be even more towny so you climbed all the way up again. At SoD 2 I got worried you were poisoned but from that point on you never really got lower. Right now you're probably my most confident TR, the only world where I conceive you being scum is the one world where DW is town. Forgot an important part ! "with the rationale that if something's really off I'll grow out of it, eventually." BUT that if I 'accidentaly' put my finger on something, then I may cling to it and figure shit out. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1047] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 16th, 2023 01:07 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I mention being weak to pocketing and summon SB in the thread, this is a conspiracy -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1048] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 16th, 2023 01:33 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Alright, here we goooooooooOOOO!!! (The "tradition" refers to the fact Varcron constantly gets lynched D1, to the point it became a running gag on the site; this is half a joke and half a way to draw potential reactions, either from Varcron himself or from people who would question my vote, but we ended up going entirely elsewhere) First posts, trying to get the game going through RVS, which I believe is the best way to gather information early on; sometimes, you get immediate information, but basically all the time, you can come back to the early D1 interactions generated by RVS using the information from later flips and make a lot of sense from it. I know I've solved games that way before, even though I don't remember the games themselves lmao. Unfortunately, basically noone wanted to get into RVS. Vittae seemed to say "we should make things progress" without actually doing anything to make things progress, which was striking me as performative/"look at me, I'm being proactive!", so basically suspicious. Hence the questions, which I actually expected to be poorly answered by Vittae at that point, so I was getting ready to charge and apply pressure: Their reply was quite satisfactory, though (explaining their stance with the site, also explaining that they tend to be a high poster and that they're restraining themselves), and opened the way to meaningful discussion with a question about Mizery's opening post ("thank god I thought I was going to rand wolf again"). I liked where it was going and thought that if the "high poster" part were true, it would show soon enough, and that if it weren't, it would also be obvious and easy enough to realize. Then came Deathworlds' setup speculation, which looked very big for very little actual content in the middle of page 1. I have historically had issues with reading people who make long, logical, analytic posts, because they tend to be coherent and I used to associate coherence/truth with town way too much, so I'm constantly wary of wall posters. I think I even vaguely remember getting fooled by Deathworlds himself that way, so I was pretty pinged by his speculation post; apart from the public service announcement of not using anti-town power abilities as town, it was more or less a "nothingburger", to use his own favorite expression. Hence I questioned him, got the not exactly satisfying answer "I like setup speculation, it's fun, and now is the time to get into it", so since I was getting nothing of note, I just put him in my scum lean mind category and went to question Ikarus, since he said he had enjoyed reading Deathworlds' post. Ikarus' statement, now that I think about it, was pretty spontaneous and genuine-looking, and I quite like it now; but back then, I was mostly interested in a potential association with Deathworlds, so I was in a "is he scum" mindset rather than in an objective observation mindset, I guess. Then Loldebite posted a mech post themselves, but in a way that felt more useful (there was actual talk about what we should or shouldn't do regarding claims, it was more game-related rather than just "in the air"), so I asked Ikarus what he thought of it compared to Deathworlds', and that's when it seems Loldebite began being suspected by many, including Ikarus of course, for reasons I frankly could not understand (hence my later questioning of PoD when he hard pushed him). Ikarus' point itself was understandable and convincing at first, though: Loldebite's big post had indeed appeared 4 minutes after his last post, which was impossible to have thought and typed immediatly. It turned out Debbie had said he was working on a post, though, so there was in the end nothing suspicious, and I was left with pretty much nothing. I started feeling like Ikarus was town due to the way he seemed to be reading people (thinks people are wrong = thinks they're scum, which is what I believe he applied to scumread Loldebite, even though I'm actually still not sure), but waited on a reply from him about his reasons for scumreading Debbie before committing to my read. I think that reply never actually came, but other things (namely POD and Mizery) took my attention, so I kinda forgot about it and remained with my vaguely good impression of Ikarus (which, now that I re-read the situation, seems to make sense). Between the questions to Ikarus, I had been checking POD's ISO, since I felt like he had said basically nothing noteworthy in spite of him having like 4x my post count at the time (I remember checking postcounts and seeing me having 13 posts when he had 50 or so). Reading his ISO more closely, I found his posts were basically all either useless or entirely self-related (as in, they were all pertaining to someone who had said something about him, in a very defensive manner), so I decided to pressure him and basically try to lead town!him to becoming useful or to lead scum!him to outing himself by being unable to generate anything genuine-looking. It was especially useful in my mind since he was pretty much unattacked (not seriously, at least) at that point in the game, so there was new info to get here. Since he was hellbent on remaining hyperdefensive and strictly refused to address things that weren't just about immediatly defending himself (I had asked him about his read on Mizery, both in order to get him to speak up on something that wasn't directly related to himself and to evaluate the possibility of a POD/Mizery scum pairing, since I was also scumreading Mizery), I concluded he was absolutely not trying to "unrust" himself and his scumdar like a rusty townie would, and that he rather was just an awkward wolf who didn't know how to interact and thus froze on anything that wasn't strictly about himself. (I also remember Vittae expressed a very similar reasoning at some point in D1, and I had a big mindmeld feeling that made me quite significantly townread them, whereas I had been careful not to townread them too quickly for being logical/useful before.) The fact I scumread Mizery at that time also boosted my confidence in my POD scumread, since it REALLY seemed (and honestly still seems when I reread it) that he was purely and simply refusing to interact with her in any way, as if he were afraid of outing her: From that point onwards (or rather, from the point where POD failed to answer the question that was colored in red), I was pretty much sold on a scum!POD, and was confident in my POD/Mizery theory. [Going back in time a bit] About Mizery herself, nothing had really caught my attention, since she was just acting like her own relatively lighthearted NAI self, until this: It starkly contrasted with 1) Mizery's own previous posts, which didn't contain any magic super confident solves that could explain this level of confidence and 2) my own feeling about the gamestate, considering I definetly hadn't anything confident yet (this was before I heavily scumread POD, I was just beginning to pressure him at the time and didn't know it would lead where it did), at least not enough to be anywhere close to saying we were winning. I then thought Mizery had TMI (and upon reread, I have the exact same feeling, and the knowledge of how EOD went only amplifies it tbh), and sensed a dissonance between the level of confidence in her previous posts and the level of confidence this post showed. This snowballed with Mizery's "all your reads are pending" post in which she basically discredited me without drawing any conclusions, which was really just throwing shade; plus, the confidence level it implied once again felt really weird. She never really addressed this, so this feeling basically continued until the mess that was EOD, POD's flip and then Varcron's death threw me into a bit of a confusion - and rereading D1 rekindled my suspicions against her about the confidence level dissonance, btw, although it's weaker than it used to be due to POD's flip. Might be worth looking into further, but I digress. At the time, my suspicions on Mizery and POD were intertwined, mostly due to POD's behavior and especially to his complete refusal to address Mizery. OKAY that was longer than I expected lol, and I should eat now. Going back to D1 made me draw two conclusions: - I still suspect Mizery, and shouldn't forget about her - POD's lynch was basically inevitable and "deserved", without wanting to be rude; knowing he was town, reading his posts feels really weird, because that means he was misplaying so hard as a non-noob You better actually read it lmao God I haven't even opened the spoilsr and it's a t3rrible post -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1049] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 16th, 2023 03:02 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Thanks. Thoughts on the possibility that if you're town and Death is town, there could be a second mafia bartender instead of a tailor that messed with Death's results? I'm considering the possibility of a setup where the mafia have an almost mirrored set of roles to us (invest/bartend/chemist town vs invest/bartend mafia) and this is basically the only possible setup where you and Death can be t/t and there is a mafia role that your night action could be used on (otherwise your role is legitimately useless instead of having a tiny purpose in the setup which I find pretty unlikely? Why would you get a role as town if the only purpose is to hurt town?). It is definitely possible. It is just as likely that the mafia has a bartender not a tailor (both equally strong in mafia alignment imo). You are doing the correct thing to assume I am not confirmed because of this possibility. In a world where death is town and him scanning loldebite as tailor unfortunately means nothing because the mafia bartender would've targetted death since his last minute claim. I think it'd balance out 'town invest, town kill, town deception' vs 'mafia invest, mafia deception' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1050] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 16th, 2023 03:04 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Even if we test my role on death, the possible mafia bartender could easily screw it up. Question, can bartender cause a fake night action feedback on a role that has no night action? By the way I'm trying to find time to ISO myself... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1051] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 03:12 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ah yes, that could actually be considered breadcrumbing I guess, You guess? Feels like you have to have to be very aware of whatever your role is when you make a post like this. Why didn't this come to mind for you earlier when I was asking for things you did that were due to your role / were softing? I feel like this is pretty difficult to forget about if you knew you were a Snitch at the time. as will my "IDC if all TPR die" stance later on. Idea was that all citizen will claim citizen immediately but scum would have to decide on a stance right out of the gate which might've put them in a difficult position. So the idea wasn't for you to bait a nightkill by claiming power role? And if it was then why not just claim when you had the perfect opportunity? Pink part seemed a bit disdainful/confrontational/contrarian for my taste, I couldn't help but read it kind of like "yeah, uh no bruh wtf u saying" which as a first interaction ever felt a bit much. Please explain why you felt this is mafia indicative because I'm not seeing it. Red orange part felt exceedingly hypocritical considering we were on the first page of D1, which is most often full of jokes, fluff and otherwise unrelated garbage and that MM has partaken in some of that aspect (I DEMAND HYPE etc...). Did you not consider that MM was making a lot of solving posts outside of fluff though whereas PoD wasn't? By this logic I would also have been hypocritical in pushing PoD.The both of these combined made me very wary of MM for the majority of D1. In some games I've played before, scum only had a night chat, hence my assumption that they did not. Pink part in my mind was "If you're afraid about TPR getting gutted at night, I'm not. In fact I'd be glad !" but I obviously couldn't say that without claiming. Also pretty surprised you didn't bring this up earlier. I figured that because of my role being investigative, we probably had another not-so-useful role (belief strengthened by varcron's claim at the time), which meant that at worst in my mind we had 1 other good TPR and myself, so 66% chance for scum to target a useless TPR if they so chose. So yeah I really wasn't scared at all. I didn't expect Varcron to make that claim as a killing role. If this is what you thought, why not push harder on claiming PRs? What I didn't dive into but thought about here is that IMO scum never ever double claims cit as on top of being potentially harder than claiming their real role and being able to use that information to suit their goals that might let town create a towncore of PRs which sounds desastrous for scum, but it seemed not worth investigating further anyway. Why did you drop the claim here? Didn't you having additional information that your role being outed was a positive make the claims worth it to you? Yeah IIRC I was being scumread by most in my first couple games, one of said cost us the victory because a fellow town voted me alongside mafia despite me being mechanically confirmed. Not a question but I once lost a game because disinterested players managed to kill not one but two confirmed villagers in a row so I feel you. That game did numbers on me. Yeah I recall laughing at PoD's post, tbh at very first it felt very genuinely annoyed in a "idc what you think I'm not town reading that shit" way, which I liked. Retrospectively, I should've trusted that feeling, but at the time I was scared of the player, I must say. Retroactively, do you actually think you could have reasonably found PoD as town from this post? If so, what specifically about that attitude would come from a villager but not mafia? I really liked all those 4 posts Why? when I first read them, and they had struck me as much more impactful/to the point than the first few couple (except the one about ikarus). This was replying to varcron's readslist where I was at the far end saying "Loldebite for now is my top scum read, but something is off with them. Everything they have said so far in my eyes has in some capacity been scummy, and I can't place my finger on why yet, however this read will likely develop in the future." and that felt so gratuitous I was baffled. I had just woke up so seeing a "scum because shrug" kinda tilted me. Like I still can't fathom that "I can't place my finger on why yet... " Sure, about a few posts about the ENTIRETY of it ?? Did this affect your read on Varcron at all? This is something I personally flagged while doing my N1 will. AH YES ! My reaction to MM's stupid post reusing ika's stupid argument that I wrote a wall in 4 minutes... When I could understand it from ika's perspective where he thought he figured out something and jumped on the gun, just like I did with vittæ, A post which is conveniently not mentioned here lol, why did you think me "lying" was wolf indicative and not just a mistake? someone exterior to the argument SHOULD'VE been critical of the premise and challenged it by paying attention to the context. Obviously MM hadn't done that or he would've read the post just before and found me announcing the wall. Because I was already wary of MM, as mentioned, this made me pretty angry as it felt so puny and small, almost pathetic. This strenghtened my suspicions of MM. I was still thinking I could be the lynch, so that's really a question I asked myself and wanted other people's opinions on. If you were thinking you about to get voted then wouldn't that have been a perfect time to prepare a PR claim? Otherwise, at least if you were voted you could use your PR, right? I'm not sure why you'd be pushing for a no elim. At that time I was considering strongly MM/Mizery as a scum team, which is why I mentionned Mizery's vote. It's also then that I realized I probably wouldn't be the lynch, unlike what I had started thinking shortly after waking up (varcron's readlist being about the first thing I read probably played a huge part in that impression). Wasn't it already explained though atp that voting for a no elim was bad? What was your thoughts process behind considering one? My "hot take" answer to Vittæ's question about scum pairings. While that seemed plausible to me, especially in a s!PoD world, I didn't think it was the likeliest but I figured such a position would prompt interesting reactions. Vittæ DOES strike me as someone that'd bus PoD hard to gain the town cred. Please explain in detail what specifically about me gives you this impression to such a strong degree that you think I'd be >rand mafia if PoD flipped scum. Also, you initially dropped this read after saying that you thought that me never unvoting PoD made it unlikely to be a bus and then iirc you wordlessly started pushing the read again, what happened there? I was quite stupid. This is a post I have a hard time getting back into context now. Retrospectively it seems OBVIOUS that PoD is LHF, yet I still decide he's the best vote regardless of how hard I hated on MM... You can be LHF and still the best vote. Otherwise anybody could put no effort in and win as a wolf. Why does what you've said here make you think that PoD was a bad vote in retrospect? Yet I figured that the PoD flip would give us a lot of info, on DW, on Vittæ and on MM. Info good enough that it was worth putting us at mylo if PoD was town? Found it, that was the post in question, where I really liked the interaction with PoD on MM's part. Why? You're doing a lot of stating what you like but not a lot of stating why you like it. The latter is the main thing that's useful in trying to make reads / find you if you're town and that's what I want to see more of. I had taken a look at the wagons and realized that I didn't really like it : MM, ika, DW & me were onto PoD but I TR ika and MM at that point, so if PoD was probably not getting bussed as I thought they were. So you thought that PoD was town because the wagon was too pure and that meant they weren't getting bussed? Which in turn meant that they were probably not scum after all, and besides the DW train seemed to face more resistance so it felt better to vote there. But DW facing resistance that would be suggesting DW was a wolf would then imply that the wolves were on the PoD wagon which contradicts what you've just said. The wolves can't both be not voting PoD and resisting the push on Death (so voting PoD) at the same time surely? Stuff in purple Loldebite -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1052] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 16th, 2023 03:18 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ok good stuff. Yeah I understand, I came to FM from a background where I had played mafia with mostly friends and very polarised players as well. i still remember this time in 2018 where the people at the theater were playing mafia around the campfire like we do a lot of the nights even tho now we play botc but the point is i was mafia and i knew that this one guy was onto me and no one else was so i killed him and then when we were informed of his death he was like "BUT ONE LAST THING" and proceeded to drop an oral case on me like BRO that's why i fucking KILLED YOU shut the FUCK UP -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1053] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 03:20 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Basically boils down to Mizery being much more active and invested in town's becoming than previously Why did those posts at the bottom make you feel better about me? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1054] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 03:25 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff i still remember this time in 2018 where the people at the theater were playing mafia around the campfire like we do a lot of the nights even tho now we play botc but the point is i was mafia and i knew that this one guy was onto me and no one else was so i killed him and then when we were informed of his death he was like "BUT ONE LAST THING" and proceeded to drop an oral case on me like BRO that's why i fucking KILLED YOU shut the FUCK UP I think we should all begin our wills with "BUT ONE LAST THING" and proceed to drop a case on Miz -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1055] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 16th, 2023 03:25 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff - POD's lynch was basically inevitable and "deserved", without wanting to be rude; knowing he was town, reading his posts feels really weird, because that means he was misplaying so hard as a non-noob Everyone who voted him was also "misplaying hard" then, as a non-noob. PoD made his alignment obvious enough later on despite not saying much or contributing much and you can't push that onto him after misreading him. also that "non-noob" had taken a 7 year hiatus from mafia and you can't expect people to jump back in and be gods after all the theoretical game meta and player changes that have taken place. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1056] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 16th, 2023 03:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I think we should all begin our wills with "BUT ONE LAST THING" and proceed to drop a case on Miz I will kill all of you -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1057] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 16th, 2023 03:41 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff My mindset going into this game was that I was going to be very open, even if it sounds stupid or noobish, I'm going to say whatever I had in my mind to allow others to better read me as town. I was going to go as 'hard to read for a beginner' as I did in my previous two games (well I tried to be, not saying I was successful), but I thought that in this game where there are more players present, if i let myself read as town, it would help narrow down the list later on. Also as a beginner player who is being an obvious town, I didn't think mafia would prioritise killing me in night 1, especially if a PR claim appears. I knew my role was pretty garbage because I couldn't use my night action so I kept quiet about my role. That was my mindset in day 1. Now to ISO myself, I'm just going to trust you are 95% correct, purely based on seniority and experience. But it'll be a good idea to come back to this post and follow up as days progress. This is me just reading and going along with death, there is no actual content behind my statements. Last game here with Mizery he was a town so I don't know what he means by he was going to rand wolf again, perhaps he is wolfing right now. Edit *he thought he was going to random wolf His opening statement in that game was pretty important in that his following posts made it easier for other towns believe he was town (from my POV). I wouldn't say it is nothing at this stage. I know it's just based off one game. It probably is him trying to appear as town as you said though. I'm just reading it as I see it. If scum specifically claimed they are town, yeah that is nothing. But soft claim town by saying something that might not be true (unless Mizery played elsewhere where he was wolfing)? You could read more into it. And maybe it is unwise to say you are town, but in some set ups I'm sure it is a strategy to hard claim town early in day 1 especially as a power role that is limited in number. At this point in time, without any strong basis (it was still very early and this is based off one comment), I was questioning Mizery on her opening statement because I did not know how many games she has played since our last game. I knew it had no base. At the time I thought I'd start somewhere and I wanted to poke at Mizery, mainly because I had noone else to poke at the time (perhaps death? But I just said it was fun to read his post). If true: Armorsmith Gunsmith Blacksmith Chemist Electromaniac Physician Stagecoach Driver Snitch Tracker Scout Investigator Janitor Bartender Coward Tailor Operator My attempt at trying to figure out what Varcron's role would be. I don't see a reason why Varcron would lie about it tbh. Honestly, I don't remember exactly how I came to this conclusion, but I did, and I believed in my reasoning at the time. I honestly did not see any reason why he would lie about his role being non-town friendly. Then I go off on discussion about why I believe certain roles are not town friendly especially N1. Varcron is a citizen xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD that is my guess on top of my head without assessing anything analysing anything. Again, I don't remember exactly why, but I town read him and I believed him to be a town. I wanted to say he was a citizen because I thought he was WIFOMing to draw heat to himself and I wanted to WIFOM him myself to make it harder for mafia to figure out his role. Was I successful? No. Was it fun to think I created some confusion? Yes. Ok I don't know if this is appropriate right now but I townread deathworlds. 1. His speculation post was fun to read. 2. Because he does not know some players here he can't trust that the rest of us won't do something that is detrimental to the patriots, so he did advise certain roles from using their action in N1 3. I did not know I could. Very helpful. I wouldn't have done it without this prompt. 4. Just trying to be helpful for town (ok im tired of writing loyalists and patriots and i keep making typos when i do) I genuinely found death's notes about last will helpful. His reminder not to use certain ability was a bit moot because unless you are stupid you should know, but there are stupid people so it makes sense he can't trust everyone to do what is right, as especially there is a new player (me) present. The first comment meant nothing. Since he at least looked helpful for town and he was the one that was being most helpful to me in some way, I townread him for it. Good enough reason? Perhaps. Is it correct? Perhaps. Perhaps he was gain towncred. Perhaps he was genuinely concerned about some players. [QUOTE=ikarusdk;973983]Good morning/afternoon/evening. Deathworlds set up speculation was a speculation, and did not attempt to solve the game. Towny? I don't think so. It was just fun to read. I guess I should've just left that out from my reason why I town read him. I agree that Loldebites post was an actual breakdown of the game set up. Two things I do not like loldebites mechanical break down post, and I think this is quite significant. When I read this post at first I had a feeling it was pre-written. But it is presented to us as a new thought. Now, with that in mind I had a re-read of the post this morning and I'm surprised to see that it was written in 4 minutes. Perhaps it is possible. Perhaps loldebites is used to the layout of the breakdowns in most games. But because something is possible, does that mean that is how it actually happened? *inserts speculation - Perhaps it was pre written in mafia chat to present it as a mechanical breakdown of the set up to appear helpful as a town, especially because we've been talking about how deathworlds breakdown is NAI (i still don't really know what this means but I think I do) and I townread him for it. Now for the reason Loldebite had been grilling me hard. Yes, it does seem impossible for me to come up with the list and mechanics down in 4 minutes especially on a thought that just came up. My premise entirely depended on the potential of the post having been pre-written somewhere, and the thought of deb working on it on a separate tab did cross my mind. But I had to poke for it because if by any chance I was right, then I ignored something that could've been very important. BUT I ADMIT. I missed this part in her previous post Wrapping up a big post but sparing a bit of time to answer quickly : Vittae Does come off as very analytical. Nothing he said alarmed me or anything, feels genuine in his questions and analysis. Asks the right questions as someone already pointed out and has thoughts that aligns with mine. Strongest town in my book Varcron I am just going by my own limited experience here. First unprompted town PR claim - is town. Perhaps to WIFOM or double WIFOM or even triple WIFOM. Towny. But I'd really like to wait for Varcron to start his day. Deathworlds I still feel deathworlds is towny. Emphasis has been made about his initial mechanical breakdown, but that was just a speculation and the reason to put him in scumlist for his post having no actual game solving content means little to me. If anything, deathworlds certain instructions, while can be made as scum to gain towncred, are still valid. Mizery Her irritation of other people not reading her post made me giggle. Felt genuine. Having said that, nothing of her posts screamed out anything bad. I don't agree with some of her early reads, but we are still early in D1 so that's fine. PoD Well people are grilling PoD for not coming up with genuine game related content! True, but PoD has been away for 7 years and because I don't know how he used to play i am willing to give him a benefit of the doubt. People do need time to get back into things you know? Although I do need to say too many of PoD's post were AtE, which I don't like, and if my first game taught me anything, you gotta be careful about that. MM It turns out I do not like MM's posts. One reason is I disagree how you boost Loldebites breakdown when I had my doubts, and I still have my doubts as I explained in my previous post. The another one is this one. Again, it is because I already have Loldebites at the bottom of my list. Loldebite Please refer to my previous post. This is a read straight outta bed, and my reads can be as fleeting as a naked man running away from a husband of a married woman he slept with. I still stand by most of my reasoning, but if I can change something would be about scumreading Lolbite for the reason I stated before. I know ceko, ceko used to play alot in arcade. Don't worry, I am not the same person. To be quite honest, I don't like the tone PoD has used so far. As I stated earlier, they felt more or less AtE. I also disagree with you about Vittae. Vittae has been the most outspoken player here thus far. Plenty of good content to go through. Would you be able to explain why you feel loldebites sound scummy when you manage to find why later on? I still feel the same way, and perhaps the reason for my vote on PoD is because of AtE, very defensive nature without countering any reasons or pointing to somewhere else. I do admit, I do feel a bit uneasy when it comes to Vittae, and it might be because Vittae is overly helpful. Asking too many too good questions, and with a lot of content. Perhaps Vittae is really good at wolfing. Perhaps this is because Vittae is naturally a good town player and highly experienced. But if you place yourself in my shoes.... quality of post wise, if everyone else is either town or neutral, and you think about PoD's post and Vittae's posts... it's only naturally for me to assume PoD is being the least helpful. Quick reassessment, My scumread on Loldebite is pretty weak and relied on timing than real scumread. If we vote Mizery/MM and mislynch I would've voted PoD. I am now leaning towards MM being town. Later posts by Mizery makes me suspicious, although given lack of time I have I don't know I can take my time to explain. -vote Powerofdeath I was running out of time because EoD was like 10 minutes left or something... If I'm wrong about PoD My next day focous will be on Mizery/Loldebite I still felt uneasy about lol at the time, and because there was alot of people scumreading Mizery, I thought this was the right step even if I did not scum read Mizery. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1058] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 03:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff NGL being volatile in reads is kind of something I kind of encourage myself to do, with the rationale that if something's really off I'll grow out of it, eventually. Part of the reason is becoming harder to pocket (because I felt like that was a soft spot of mine) and part of the reason is getting harder to anticipate, thus provoking less thought-ahead reactions that are much more interesting. And if it gets me harder to read, that's a bonus for when I'll finally rand wolf :D I'll give a short version here to debrief some I thought were wrong impressions. First impressions were town Why? then quite confident town Why?then I got worried about you bussing Why? and at one point you really were bottom 2 Why? but that was short lived and you climbed up somewhat Why? but I was still wary, high of bottom half I'd say. Then at EoD 1 miz started making sense again and I kinda felt this was thanks to you, at least in part, and you seemd to actively encourage her to be even more towny so you climbed all the way up again.Don't need to ask why on this one. At SoD 2 I got worried you were poisoned but from that point on you never really got lower. Right now you're probably my most confident TR, Why? I know you said because of my DW push but you've also consistently called me very likely w/w with PoD - have you decided I'm not a serial busser now? the only world where I conceive you being scum is the one world where DW is town. There's a lot of whys here but I'm making a point of it to try to show you what I need to see from you if you're town in order to be able to find you since nothing you've said in those responses is even remotely difficult for a wolf to fake otherwise. To find you if you're town you need to make posts that a mafia member couldn't make basically and the key to that is explaining these whys in detail (starting on this post if you don't mind?). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1059] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 16th, 2023 03:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Anyway, that is my attempt at back reading my log and trying to remember my thought progress and feelings at the time. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1060] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 16th, 2023 03:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Everyone who voted him was also "misplaying hard" then, as a non-noob. PoD made his alignment obvious enough later on despite not saying much or contributing much and you can't push that onto him after misreading him. also that "non-noob" had taken a 7 year hiatus from mafia and you can't expect people to jump back in and be gods after all the theoretical game meta and player changes that have taken place. PoD Well people are grilling PoD for not coming up with genuine game related content! True, but PoD has been away for 7 years and because I don't know how he used to play i am willing to give him a benefit of the doubt. People do need time to get back into things you know? Although I do need to say too many of PoD's post were AtE, which I don't like, and if my first game taught me anything, you gotta be careful about that. I TRIED -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1061] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 03:52 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff (@MM I see and appreciate your wall but am responding to shorter stuff first as it'll take some time to finish) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1062] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 03:53 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff (@MM I see and appreciate your wall but am responding to shorter stuff first as it'll take some time to finish) Oh and ikarus ty as well -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1063] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 16th, 2023 03:54 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I think we should all begin our wills with "BUT ONE LAST THING" and proceed to drop a case on Miz LAST WILL ... .... ... BUT ONE LAST THING Mizery threatened to kill all of us. Am I doing it right -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1064] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 04:01 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Even if we test my role on death, the possible mafia bartender could easily screw it up. Question, can bartender cause a fake night action feedback on a role that has no night action? By the way I'm trying to find time to ISO myself... I have no idea but you bring up a good possibility and it would be a smart idea to verify your role so that 1. We know that if for whatever reason we find out that it's likely the mafia can't have a Bartender then you're much more likely clear and 2. Guarantees you aren't using your ability as mafia to do harm (very very useful). If you can do this, definitely submit an action on one of the VT claims (not me as if you survive the night then I'll almost certainly be the nightkill and not get your night result). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1065] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 04:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff LAST WILL ... .... ... BUT ONE LAST THING Mizery threatened to kill all of us. Am I doing it right It's true, she really did threaten to kill all of us. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1066] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 16th, 2023 04:12 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I TRIED I was specifically replying to MM here -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1067] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 16th, 2023 04:13 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff LAST WILL ... .... ... BUT ONE LAST THING Mizery threatened to kill all of us. Am I doing it right ok that settles it i'm killing you tonight -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1068] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 16th, 2023 04:14 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff deathworlds talk me through in detail your thoughts process EoD1 and how you came to fullclaim your role so late. What stopped you from claiming / hinting PR much earlier where you wouldn't have to out as Investigator? What made you wait so close to EoD that you felt you specifically had to out your full role not to die? How good of a mech player are you? Do you personally believe that you made a mech misplay at EoD1? just got off my shift, and saw your other @me and will get to it soontm. As for responding to this, I hinted at my role in the banter between me and Varcron, the fake LW i posted. n1: red, doctor n2: oops no target n3: yellow, already dead n4: orange It's meant to mimic the last of an investigator (role cop) from the sc2mafia mod, but the investigator in the mod works entirely differently, on a clue based system as opposed to detecting the actual role, here I did the actual roles instead of the clue one gets from investigating a target. Highlighted in white. As for panic claiming, I well, panicked. I'd say it would probably a misplay on my part, I could have just claimed TPR, but in my nyquill addled brain, I figured "oh, if I just claim TPR, then it won't be enough, and enough people want me dead for some reason, the wagon could go either way, I should really make sure it's on PoD and not me" Additionally, my fullclaim happened at like the T-2 minute mark, with the train still leaning towards me, I didn't really have the opportunity to keep my cards close to my chest and assume people would unvote me. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1069] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 16th, 2023 04:15 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff It's meant to mimic the last will of an investigator (role cop) from the sc2mafia mod jfc -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1070] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 16th, 2023 04:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff jfc ...why? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1071] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 05:41 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff just got off my shift, and saw your other @me and will get to it soontm. As for responding to this, I hinted at my role in the banter between me and Varcron, the fake LW i posted. It's meant to mimic the last of an investigator (role cop) from the sc2mafia mod, but the investigator in the mod works entirely differently, on a clue based system as opposed to detecting the actual role, here I did the actual roles instead of the clue one gets from investigating a target. Highlighted in white. As for panic claiming, I well, panicked. I'd say it would probably a misplay on my part, I could have just claimed TPR, but in my nyquill addled brain, I figured "oh, if I just claim TPR, then it won't be enough, and enough people want me dead for some reason, the wagon could go either way, I should really make sure it's on PoD and not me" Additionally, my fullclaim happened at like the T-2 minute mark, with the train still leaning towards me, I didn't really have the opportunity to keep my cards close to my chest and assume people would unvote me. Thanks, I think the bigger issue is cutting the time way too close, giving nobody any time to discuss your claim and forcing you into a specific role claim - why is that? It's something that's extremely common for mafia to do as a last ditch effort to survive (at least, it is off-site) and given you previously demonstrated good mech understanding it seems very out of character for you as town to do. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1072] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 05:44 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Miz, what was the reason for tying the vote at EoD1 instead of voting PoD directly? Like I know it's a dumb decision for you as a wolf but I'm still perplexed as to why you'd do it as town. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1073] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 05:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also, if you thought the bucket was optimal on D1 why were you selling it like a joke suggestion? Come ONNNN guys ur no fun Were already winning this game no need to play it so straight Looking at these posts in particular where it doesn't at all match what you suggested you thought earlier today. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1074] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 16th, 2023 05:49 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Anyway, I'm going to bed and will go through the other walls in detail tomorrow. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1075] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 16th, 2023 06:19 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Miz, what was the reason for tying the vote at EoD1 instead of voting PoD directly? Like I know it's a dumb decision for you as a wolf but I'm still perplexed as to why you'd do it as town. Already said why Didn't want to vote pod but no one was switching off of death -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1076] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 16th, 2023 06:21 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Everyone who voted him was also "misplaying hard" then, as a non-noob. PoD made his alignment obvious enough later on despite not saying much or contributing much and you can't push that onto him after misreading him. also that "non-noob" had taken a 7 year hiatus from mafia and you can't expect people to jump back in and be gods after all the theoretical game meta and player changes that have taken place. I mean, he wasn't obvious to me at all, and I don't think I see what you see, even with hindsight. Of course, you can (and kinda already did) say that's a skill issue on my part now, especially now that he has flipped. However - and that's where I get back at you, which I can see you don't like lol -, it's much easier to have this point of view when you knew all along that he was town because you have TMI, leading you to interpret his actions under a different prism just because you have prior knowledge. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1077] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 16th, 2023 06:23 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff (@MM I see and appreciate your wall but am responding to shorter stuff first as it'll take some time to finish) Understood, it's fine lol i still remember this time in 2018 where the people at the theater were playing mafia around the campfire like we do a lot of the nights even tho now we play botc but the point is i was mafia and i knew that this one guy was onto me and no one else was so i killed him and then when we were informed of his death he was like "BUT ONE LAST THING" and proceeded to drop an oral case on me like BRO that's why i fucking KILLED YOU shut the FUCK UP xD that's pretty ridiculous for the record, I can sense you're getting pretty heated in general lol so I just wish to remind you this is nothing personal but one last thing... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1078] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 16th, 2023 09:14 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I mean, he wasn't obvious to me at all, and I don't think I see what you see, even with hindsight. Of course, you can (and kinda already did) say that's a skill issue on my part now, especially now that he has flipped. However - and that's where I get back at you, which I can see you don't like lol -, it's much easier to have this point of view when you knew all along that he was town because you have TMI, leading you to interpret his actions under a different prism just because you have prior knowledge. I'm not saying "skill issue" I'm saying you were grading him off of the top students scores when he hasn't gone to school in 7 years -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1079] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 16th, 2023 09:22 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also getting heated? Was that part of the joke or -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1080] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 16th, 2023 10:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I mean, he wasn't obvious to me at all, and I don't think I see what you see, even with hindsight. Of course, you can (and kinda already did) say that's a skill issue on my part now, especially now that he has flipped. However - and that's where I get back at you, which I can see you don't like lol -, it's much easier to have this point of view when you knew all along that he was town because you have TMI, leading you to interpret his actions under a different prism just because you have prior knowledge. Kinda think this post is towny tho -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1081] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 01:49 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Already said why Didn't want to vote pod but no one was switching off of death Yeah but wasn't the logical of your vote switch to save Death which you... didn't? Obviously only Death or PoD could have gone over. Who did you actually want to go over? Please explain this because I can't defend you in my will for the way you played being completely Irrational if you're mafia when by all accounts this seems questionable if you're town as well and I just can't understand your logic. It's something I'd much rather get from you now than have to leave doubts on you in my last will -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1082] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 17th, 2023 02:10 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff There's a lot of whys here but I'm making a point of it to try to show you what I need to see from you if you're town in order to be able to find you since nothing you've said in those responses is even remotely difficult for a wolf to fake otherwise. To find you if you're town you need to make posts that a mafia member couldn't make basically and the key to that is explaining these whys in detail (starting on this post if you don't mind?). First impressions were town because of trying to gtfo of RVS asap, doable as any alignment but clearly beneficial only to town. Which you started off by trying to get a better grasp of about players that were there (first MM, then PoD, this is the short lived time where I put you as slightly town) and then a short meta analysis of MM's entrance, some coaching of ika and a read on mizery. All of this felt slightly town, mostly because nothing was accusatory or dissing and I kind of assumed you'd be far past the "shit I know they're all town and can't scum read anyone" syndrome so you feeling slightly good about multiple people felt like actual solving from a town perspective to me. That's when I put you as solid town. Then you started your case on PoD, which I still felt good about, cuz scum hunting is good lol. But later on I started considering your slot from the powerwolfer position and tbh it felt like you were in an IDEAL powerwolf position so I got scared and started considering what you do assuming you're a powerwolf, see if it fits. Your push on PoD did fit if you were bussing, so I really considered it, strongly enough to mention it in the thread. I also liked your response to my suspicion : Interesting. So I strike you as the sort of player who would do that coming out of D1? How would I benefit from bussing PoD while I'm already townread? Not without irony, the "Interesting" in particular I found very interesting, I don't think you'd react with interest at someone accurately challenging your 1000 iq bus, it doesn't match the vibe I get from you or what I guess of your character, I would expect frustration or something similar would taint the interest enough that you wouldn't react that way. I think it's much more likely to come from you genuinely being intrigued at someone's wild-ish accusation from a town standpoint, but as this is my first game ever with you I couldn't put a lot of weight on that read alone. Somewhat strangely I think I didn't even register that last sentence of yours and immediately responded to the first question... There's probably only a max of 1 wolf in MM/deb/PoD actually. Pending a more thorough review of their interactions. Slight mindmeld there, in my mind it was a bit closer to "probably exactly one" but not quite there yet. At the time I thought the one scum to be probably PoD. And then your switch on DW I found really interesting, and I may be a tiny bit result oriented but you & miz managed to form two well defined wagons that way and like thanks lol Also it helped me realize I didn't actually put PoD at scum all that much and was still voting there mostly out of herd mentality, I think. And no, I still think you're a serial busser waiting to happen, it's just that bussing DW AND consolidating wagons AND coach-guiding mizery AND the slight mindmeld is a lot, even for a powerwolf... And even if you really are scum you're almost definitely the hardest to catch of the two by now, so I'd rather focus on the one I can catch. Also it would mean that you chose to bus DW AFTER I call you out for bussing PoD (because I really don't think the DW that panicks yesterday can be a misdirected drugged town), which would be so ballzy I have a hard time believing anyone'd do that, even yourself. I'd be impressed to be proven wrong, tho (please no) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1083] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 17th, 2023 02:17 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I mean, he wasn't obvious to me at all, and I don't think I see what you see, even with hindsight. Of course, you can (and kinda already did) say that's a skill issue on my part now, especially now that he has flipped. However - and that's where I get back at you, which I can see you don't like lol -, it's much easier to have this point of view when you knew all along that he was town because you have TMI, leading you to interpret his actions under a different prism just because you have prior knowledge. Second time today you're dissing vittæ, I know I haven't posted about the first yet, it's in your HUGE FUCKING WALL and I have yet to finish it -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1084] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 02:59 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff People who've played with Death before - how would you describe his scum meta? How well does he tend to compared to his town play? In a vacuum and ignoring the current difference check where would you place him in his meta currently? Obviously I can and am looking at his meta anyway but I haven't actually played with him myself so I'd appreciate the perspective. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1085] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 17th, 2023 03:03 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I have no idea but you bring up a good possibility and it would be a smart idea to verify your role so that 1. We know that if for whatever reason we find out that it's likely the mafia can't have a Bartender then you're much more likely clear and 2. Guarantees you aren't using your ability as mafia to do harm (very very useful). If you can do this, definitely submit an action on one of the VT claims (not me as if you survive the night then I'll almost certainly be the nightkill and not get your night result). Yes I am going to try. But I think im going to be night killed first. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1086] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 03:09 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yes I am going to try. But I think im going to be night killed first. You're definitely a possible nightkill but not certain so it's still smart to discuss ways of helping find your alignment if you do survive. I won't explain my NK spec further though for fairly obvious reasons. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1087] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 03:12 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also ikarus just in case redirection shenanigans happen, you shouldn't send a fake Investigator result (send a fake Tracker or Scout result instead or any other night feedback you're able to send that isn't on an existing Town PR claim). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1088] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 17th, 2023 03:14 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Stuff in purple Loldebite Ah yes, that could actually be considered breadcrumbing I guess, - You guess? Feels like you have to have to be very aware of whatever your role is when you make a post like this. Why didn't this come to mind for you earlier when I was asking for things you did that were due to your role / were softing? I feel like this is pretty difficult to forget about if you knew you were a Snitch at the time. Yeah, because I didn't actually intend to breadcrumb, not consciously at least - and I consider(ed?) breadcrumbing to be the CONSCIOUS and PURPOSEFUL disposition of clues. It didn't come to mind for just that reason : I hadn't made the connection between fact that I was snitch when I wrote that, so when I thought about "stuff I did BECAUSE snitch", that didn't come up, even tho it obviously was shaped by the fact. Pink part seemed a bit disdainful/confrontational/contrarian for my taste, I couldn't help but read it kind of like "yeah, uh no bruh wtf u saying" which as a first interaction ever felt a bit much. Please explain why you felt this is mafia indicative because I'm not seeing it. It's not scum indicative. It is, however, typical of scum!MM. Maybe MM in general (don't know him all that well, reasonable doubt etc...) but I'd still say it is most typical of scum!MM. Red orange part felt exceedingly hypocritical considering we were on the first page of D1, which is most often full of jokes, fluff and otherwise unrelated garbage and that MM has partaken in some of that aspect (I DEMAND HYPE etc...). Did you not consider that MM was making a lot of solving posts outside of fluff though whereas PoD wasn't? By this logic I would also have been hypocritical in pushing PoD.The both of these combined made me very wary of MM for the majority of D1. Maybe it was a bit hypocritical of you, too, but not PURPOSEFULLY so, not in a way that seemed PLANNED because you had already insinuated that we was being manipulative. Also, your push was quite a bit later - or so it seemed to me. So yeah I really wasn't scared at all. I didn't expect Varcron to make that claim as a killing role. If this is what you thought, why not push harder on claiming PRs? Simply because I don't think I have enough clout to pull it off. What I didn't dive into but thought about here is that IMO scum never ever double claims cit as on top of being potentially harder than claiming their real role and being able to use that information to suit their goals that might let town create a towncore of PRs which sounds desastrous for scum, but it seemed not worth investigating further anyway. Why did you drop the claim here? Didn't you having additional information that your role being outed was a positive make the claims worth it to you? Well yeah, I firmly believed claiming was a positive for town because of my role, but only if we applied the bucket strat, and if I ever say anything more than I have (maybe I already said too much, actually) implying that I'm fine with PRs or myself dying, I'd risk making myself obvious enough that the positives disappear, and I wasn't confident in successfully pushing for it without outing myself. In retrospect I probably should've done exactly the same as varcron, I never seriously considered he could be chem and that's definitely a big mistake. Yeah I recall laughing at PoD's post, tbh at very first it felt very genuinely annoyed in a "idc what you think I'm not town reading that shit" way, which I liked. Retrospectively, I should've trusted that feeling, but at the time I was scared of the player, I must say. Retroactively, do you actually think you could have reasonably found PoD as town from this post? If so, what specifically about that attitude would come from a villager but not mafia? I think so, yeah. Actually, thinking about it it reminds me of someone else's post but I cannot quite put my finger on it. It was someone experienced annoyed at another someone experienced that was townreading a noob and they were just as pissed at the townread being that easy as PoD is here. Both had that "Wtf are you on anyone can do what he did ! Come the fuck on there's no way you're ACTUALLY TRing him for THAT ???" feel, which I think comes more from a town being pissed at a player they respect seemingly getting pocket because of the alleged recency of an account than from scum being jealous at how easy it is for noobs to get TR. I really liked all those 4 posts Why? when I first read them, and they had struck me as much more impactful/to the point than the first few couple (except the one about ikarus)./QUOTE] Bad phrasing sorry, it's BECAUSE they had struck me as much more impactful/to the point than the first few couple. They felt genuinely solvy. AND there's a hint of frustrated-villager in there, too : "I mean I generally vote people to get a better read on them." ; "I assume that both loldebite and I are your two top suspects? Can I ask if you think we are bussing each others? This early in?". [QUOTE]This was replying to varcron's readslist where I was at the far end saying "Loldebite for now is my top scum read, but something is off with them. Everything they have said so far in my eyes has in some capacity been scummy, and I can't place my finger on why yet, however this read will likely develop in the future." and that felt so gratuitous I was baffled. I had just woke up so seeing a "scum because shrug" kinda tilted me. Like I still can't fathom that "I can't place my finger on why yet... " Sure, about a few posts about the ENTIRETY of it ?? Did this affect your read on Varcron at all? This is something I personally flagged while doing my N1 will. I had actually forgot about varcron during EoD, too much going on. If I had taken the time to reflect on things before the start of the next day, it definitely would've. But the next time I got down to do some solving (I love nights as VT, it feels like a day off), I learned that varcron was dead, so... AH YES ! My reaction to MM's stupid post reusing ika's stupid argument that I wrote a wall in 4 minutes... When I could understand it from ika's perspective where he thought he figured out something and jumped on the gun, just like I did with vittæ, A post which is conveniently not mentioned here lol, why did you think me "lying" was wolf indicative and not just a mistake? someone exterior to the argument SHOULD'VE been critical of the premise and challenged it by paying attention to the context. Obviously MM hadn't done that or he would've read the post just before and found me announcing the wall. Because I was already wary of MM, as mentioned, this made me pretty angry as it felt so puny and small, almost pathetic. This strenghtened my suspicions of MM. Let me hide my shame, for fucks sake ;(... I didn't think it was wolfy, it simply was a good pretext to vote someone and generate context, polarize reads, opinions and people and in a word get things going. Which is why ika's post, despite being bad it itself, overall had a net positive because it prompted MM to answer it in a way that I deem interesting enough. Sadly mine has not, to my knowledge. I was still thinking I could be the lynch, so that's really a question I asked myself and wanted other people's opinions on. If you were thinking you about to get voted then wouldn't that have been a perfect time to prepare a PR claim? Otherwise, at least if you were voted you could use your PR, right? I'm not sure why you'd be pushing for a no elim. Wasn't it already explained though atp that voting for a no elim was bad? What was your thoughts process behind considering one? Yeah that's mb I forgot a very important detail : I was pushing for a no elim because I figured it'd be MUCH BETTER for town to miselim me AFTER I visit someone. That way town would've been in the exact same situation BUT with an extra open scan that can possibly confirm someone as town (which is what I was thinking was the best use possible at the time). My "hot take" answer to Vittæ's question about scum pairings. While that seemed plausible to me, especially in a s!PoD world, I didn't think it was the likeliest but I figured such a position would prompt interesting reactions. Vittæ DOES strike me as someone that'd bus PoD hard to gain the town cred. Please explain in detail what specifically about me gives you this impression to such a strong degree that you think I'd be >rand mafia if PoD flipped scum. Also, you initially dropped this read after saying that you thought that me never unvoting PoD made it unlikely to be a bus and then iirc you wordlessly started pushing the read again, what happened there? Pushing what read ? That you were bussing ? I don't think I ever pushed that read again, but if you can point me at what made you think so, I explain wtf went through my head. Or try. I was quite stupid. This is a post I have a hard time getting back into context now. Retrospectively it seems OBVIOUS that PoD is LHF, yet I still decide he's the best vote regardless of how hard I hated on MM... You can be LHF and still the best vote. Otherwise anybody could put no effort in and win as a wolf. Why does what you've said here make you think that PoD was a bad vote in retrospect? Of course, but me not realizing he was LHF meant that I never realized that scum might be pushing PoD because he's easy to get lynched. I was scum reading MM for most of the day and voting alongside him on a LHF AND I didn't believe that MM/PoD was scum. This was just stupid, no other way to look at it. Yet I figured that the PoD flip would give us a lot of info, on DW, on Vittæ and on MM. Info good enough that it was worth putting us at mylo if PoD was town? Well it's not like I could choose not to get at mylo, could I ? Found it, that was the post in question, where I really liked the interaction with PoD on MM's part. Why? You're doing a lot of stating what you like but not a lot of stating why you like it. The latter is the main thing that's useful in trying to make reads / find you if you're town and that's what I want to see more of. Sigh, yeah but that's HARD and I'm a lazy fuck, in case you hadn't realized yet :D + some townpoints with decay :) Finally something that goes against what he was doing at the start, finally something that doesn't feel planned Then there is a good chance you're actively unhelpful? Defending yourself and being in constant reaction isn't scum-hunting and doesn't help town, so you're basically saying you do not wish to help here. Truth. Truth is good and town sided, I will die on that hill if I must. In retrospect that more us agreeing on a meta level than an actual town tell. I would rather say it's weird half the town scumread Loldebite and put so much faith in it while he really hadn't done much to be hated for yet lol. This I believe was genuine and not a mere pocketing attempt. It can be both, for sure, but at least it didn't feel like a dishonest defense and I liked that. So you thought that PoD was town because the wagon was too pure and that meant they weren't getting bussed? At that point, pretty much. The only one I was wary about in the train was DW... So why am I not voting DW ? But DW facing resistance that would be suggesting DW was a wolf would then imply that the wolves were on the PoD wagon which contradicts what you've just said. The wolves can't both be not voting PoD and resisting the push on Death (so voting PoD) at the same time surely? Yes, I didn't follow through with the reasoning all the way enough to realize that it meant the wagon on PoD was probably even less pure than I was starting to suspect, but I thought enough to realize that 1) PoD was getting votes easily ; 2) DW was not ; 3) DW immediately resorted to AtE when voted up. Which all in all meant that DW was just scummier than PoD, by quite a margin. And with two wagons quite well defined, I was confident we'd be getting interesting info regardless (at a bare minimum, a list of "PoD trusters" and "DW doubters"). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1089] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 17th, 2023 03:16 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also ikarus just in case redirection shenanigans happen, you shouldn't send a fake Investigator result (send a fake Tracker or Scout result instead or any other night feedback you're able to send that isn't on an existing Town PR claim). I concur, personally I believe gunsmith is the ideal choice here as it's a town only role that no one has claimed. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1090] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 17th, 2023 03:17 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also, sorry for the wall, I probably should've spoiler'd that one, too.. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1091] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 17th, 2023 03:18 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I concur, personally I believe gunsmith is the ideal choice here as it's a town only role that no one has claimed. ikarusdk Might as well tag you directly while I'm at it (and know how to do so easily !) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1092] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 03:23 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff First impressions were town because of trying to gtfo of RVS asap, doable as any alignment but clearly beneficial only to town. Which you started off by trying to get a better grasp of about players that were there (first MM, then PoD, this is the short lived time where I put you as slightly town) and then a short meta analysis of MM's entrance, some coaching of ika and a read on mizery. All of this felt slightly town, mostly because nothing was accusatory or dissing and I kind of assumed you'd be far past the "shit I know they're all town and can't scum read anyone" syndrome so you feeling slightly good about multiple people felt like actual solving from a town perspective to me. That's when I put you as solid town. Then you started your case on PoD, which I still felt good about, cuz scum hunting is good lol. But later on I started considering your slot from the powerwolfer position and tbh it felt like you were in an IDEAL powerwolf position so I got scared and started considering what you do assuming you're a powerwolf, see if it fits. Your push on PoD did fit if you were bussing, so I really considered it, strongly enough to mention it in the thread. I also liked your response to my suspicion : Not without irony, the "Interesting" in particular I found very interesting, I don't think you'd react with interest at someone accurately challenging your 1000 iq bus, it doesn't match the vibe I get from you or what I guess of your character, I would expect frustration or something similar would taint the interest enough that you wouldn't react that way. I think it's much more likely to come from you genuinely being intrigued at someone's wild-ish accusation from a town standpoint, but as this is my first game ever with you I couldn't put a lot of weight on that read alone. Somewhat strangely I think I didn't even register that last sentence of yours and immediately responded to the first question... Slight mindmeld there, in my mind it was a bit closer to "probably exactly one" but not quite there yet. At the time I thought the one scum to be probably PoD. And then your switch on DW I found really interesting, and I may be a tiny bit result oriented but you & miz managed to form two well defined wagons that way and like thanks lol Also it helped me realize I didn't actually put PoD at scum all that much and was still voting there mostly out of herd mentality, I think. And no, I still think you're a serial busser waiting to happen, it's just that bussing DW AND consolidating wagons AND coach-guiding mizery AND the slight mindmeld is a lot, even for a powerwolf... And even if you really are scum you're almost definitely the hardest to catch of the two by now, so I'd rather focus on the one I can catch. Also it would mean that you chose to bus DW AFTER I call you out for bussing PoD (because I really don't think the DW that panicks yesterday can be a misdirected drugged town), which would be so ballzy I have a hard time believing anyone'd do that, even yourself. I'd be impressed to be proven wrong, tho (please no) This level of detail is what I want to see more of, thank you! I'm impressed you picked out some things here that I believe are genuinely alignment indicative for me (the interesting post not being something I'd make as a wolf - I'd likely just shut down your argument, the fact that I wouldn't bus DW there in a million years if people suspected me as a busser prior). I'm all too used to people on MU not bothering to try to read me properly ig. BTW just in case you didn't see it I made a response to your large D1 post, it's just in a small spoiler. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1093] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 03:24 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ok you responded to my wall before I finished sending the message whoops -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1094] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 17th, 2023 03:30 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ok you responded to my wall before I finished sending the message whoops No worries :D It just took a bit of time to answer to so I chose to attack it last -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1095] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 17th, 2023 03:32 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ikarusdk Might as well tag you directly while I'm at it (and know how to do so easily !) Yeah got it. Not sure if it will work but it's definitely wort a try if it will help town. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1096] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 03:45 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb what have you done this game that you as a wolf either could never possibly replicate or would never willingly choose to do (eg your points on why I wouldn't choose to bus DW and my points on Mizery's EoD1)? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1097] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 03:47 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff @ people who know Deb. Would you expect Deb to draw more attention to themselves if they randed Town Snitch this game so they could get nightkilled or is Deb's play and the answers they gave me to my questions on this in character for them to do as town? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1098] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 17th, 2023 03:57 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Can I ask Marshmallow Marshall? Unless I am missing something, most of your posts in day 2 have been about Mizery and POD and replying about your actions. Between loldebite, deathworld and myself, and since there is a wolf among us three, who do you suspect the most? Have you had time to think about it? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1099] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 17th, 2023 03:58 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff and deathworlds I'd like to hear about your thoughts on Mizery/MM/Vittae as well. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1100] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 04:00 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ikarusdk Mizery deathworlds Do you think the D1 interactions between Deb and MM are unaligned on Deb's end cabe be w/w? My initial read on it was no, given Deb's inexperience as a wolf / with interacting and distancing from a partner and the frustration seeming to build up on Deb's earlier posts towards others and feeling genuine when they snapped at MM. Given MM is low in the consensus PoE, I think this I a really important interaction to look into in more detail but it's definitely something I want a second opinion on. Don't need to answer this question in the thread today, just check out that part of Deb's ISO? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1101] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 04:02 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Can I ask Marshmallow Marshall? Unless I am missing something, most of your posts in day 2 have been about Mizery and POD and replying about your actions. Between loldebite, deathworld and myself, and since there is a wolf among us three, who do you suspect the most? Have you had time to think about it? and deathworlds I'd like to hear about your thoughts on Mizery/MM/Vittae as well. Since we're voting sleep, this should probably be saved for last wills / Day 3. Don't want to give the mafia team too much info on whi to nightkill yet (you'll notice I haven't really shared a definitive alignment opinion on anybody yet besides Miz when she was getting pushed). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1102] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 04:14 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff It's not scum indicative. It is, however, typical of scum!MM. Maybe MM in general (don't know him all that well, reasonable doubt etc...) but I'd still say it is most typical of scum!MM. When have you seen scum-MM do similar before? How similar was it? Well yeah, I firmly believed claiming was a positive for town because of my role, but only if we applied the bucket strat, and if I ever say anything more than I have (maybe I already said too much, actually) implying that I'm fine with PRs or myself dying, I'd risk making myself obvious enough that the positives disappear, Better to risk a claim and maybe get a benefit than to not risk a claim and not get any benefit regardless, though? and I wasn't confident in successfully pushing for it without outing myself. In retrospect I probably should've done exactly the same as varcron, I never seriously considered he could be chem and that's definitely a big mistake. Yeah that's mb I forgot a very important detail : I was pushing for a no elim because I figured it'd be MUCH BETTER for town to miselim me AFTER I visit someone. That way town would've been in the exact same situation BUT with an extra open scan that can possibly confirm someone as town (which is what I was thinking was the best use possible at the time). So you thought you were so likely to be miselimned on D1 that you wanted to push for a no elim? Or did you want to get miselimned on purpose on D2? How does this fit into you saying you were a plausible nightkill if you also thought you were on the road to getting D1ed? Pushing what read ? That you were bussing ? I don't think I ever pushed that read again, but if you can point me at what made you think so, I explain wtf went through my head. Or try. Can't find it on a quick skim so I'll leave this, might have misinterpreted something. At that point, pretty much. The only one I was wary about in the train was DW... So why am I not voting DW ? This feels like the opposite of intuitive logic. If you're not voting where the mafia want to vote then doesn't that mean that you're likely going against their plans? Yes, I didn't follow through with the reasoning all the way enough to realize that it meant the wagon on PoD was probably even less pure than I was starting to suspect, When did you get from thinking the wagon was pure besides DW to suspecting it wasn't? but I thought enough to realize that 1) PoD was getting votes easily ; 2) DW was not ; 3) DW immediately resorted to AtE when voted up. Which all in all meant that DW was just scummier than PoD, by quite a margin. And with two wagons quite well defined, I was confident we'd be getting interesting info regardless (at a bare minimum, a list of "PoD trusters" and "DW doubters"). Bottom text -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1103] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 17th, 2023 04:20 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ikarusdk Mizery deathworlds Do you think the D1 interactions between Deb and MM are unaligned on Deb's end cabe be w/w? I don't really get what you are asking, But her ISO reads like her frustration starts with POD's refusal/inability to play upto her standard, further ignited by my post about her writing resulting in snapping at MM and Mizery. If she was actively trying to isolate herself from her partner, it was very fluid, through a very fluid set of events. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1104] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 17th, 2023 04:22 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I don't really get what you are asking, But her ISO reads like her frustration starts with POD's refusal/inability to play upto her standard, further ignited by my post about her writing resulting in snapping at MM and Mizery. If she was actively trying to isolate herself from her partner, it was very fluid, through a very fluid set of events. Never mind, I got the question. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1105] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 17th, 2023 04:42 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ikarusdk Mizery deathworlds Do you think the D1 interactions between Deb and MM are unaligned on Deb's end cabe be w/w? My initial read on it was no, given Deb's inexperience as a wolf / with interacting and distancing from a partner and the frustration seeming to build up on Deb's earlier posts towards others and feeling genuine when they snapped at MM. Given MM is low in the consensus PoE, I think this I a really important interaction to look into in more detail but it's definitely something I want a second opinion on. Don't need to answer this question in the thread today, just check out that part of Deb's ISO? Everyone is more experienced than I so I am going to assume everyone is capable of pulling something that seems unlikely, or doesn't seem to be the case. My initial reaction would've been no in day 1. But right now I think, yeah why not? There was a very convenient set of events that set loldebite off, and if it can make deb/MM an unlikely partner as a byproduct of the interactions, great! After a few posts, loldebite and MM did go back and forth at each other. Tbh I'm falling asleep on my keyboard so I should go away lol, but Mizery's "we're winning" is pinging me hard on the side of TMI. It's not like we have any particularly super promising leads at the moment, so I have doubts here, big doubts Preliminary list of reads before sleep: MM (duh) Varcron (claim; there's nothing else for now, really, so he gets his own special category until we get into more mechanica stuff) Vittae (seems skilled and relatively charismatic, and although they definetly have been trying to get things moving, this could easily be done as any alignment, so I remain vigilant even though they are towny) Loldebite (solely because of the "what would scum claim" mech post, which isn't much, but which is something) Ikarus (pending something to read him, more on this later) POD (decaying into scum if nothing changes, but for now, he still has the benefit of the doubt) Mizery (TMI?) Deathworlds (still icky about the early mech post being performative-ish, nothing much said since then) There's a good chance that MM is trying to pocket me. He's done that before. I... Can't say I agree tbh. His readslist is basically "debbie wrote a wall in 4 minutes so he's scum" and "MM is scum because debbie is scum". It IS content, but I fail to see how that's impressive. None of the more recent posts felt particularly interesting either, except maybe the part about PoD and AtE. This feels as much as a pocketing attempt as MM's comments about me tbh. MM townread deb here then deb accused MM of trying to pocket her, and MM calling her paranoid. Actively trying to distance each other? Possible. There is a good chance that if Lold flip scum, MM is their partner that is trying to derail/form a counterwagon to save their partner. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1106] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 17th, 2023 04:44 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff But there were other stuff happening as well, so I can't answer you sand say yes or no -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1107] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 04:52 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Thanks for reminding me about the PoD legacy ika, will check it out later because I want to see what he thought he saw. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1108] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 17th, 2023 05:39 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm going to list vote history (I'm assuming this is allowed) and perhaps someone with a better mind can get something out of it because I think reviewing the voting pattern could reveal something to go along with important questions that have been asked here today. Instead of sorting them per player, I think it is better to sort them chronologically. I'm going to ignore the first couple of votes that meant nothing. I will also list vote count. First meaningful pressure vote on the basis that despite the numerous posts, PoD's posts lacked in content and quality. Hey folks, catching up with stuff now. powerofdeath In response, PoD OMGUS vote on Vittae Vittae I dont really see the reason for fosing me beside low amount of posts 1 - PoD 1- Vittae Then PoD changes to lolbite I am posting contents I feel like you're looking down on me for some reasons. Loldebite 1 - PoD 1 - loldebite Loldebite votes Vittae because of "To be fair to PoD, I do believe them now when they said they're struggling to make reads" They haven't said that. Not here, at least. Vittae 1 - PoD 1 - loldebite 1 - Vittae Mizery's first vote after her read. Mizery ikarusdk Vittae Marshmallow Marshall Deathworlds Varcron powerofdeath Loldebite loldebite 1 - PoD 2 - loldebite 1 - Vittae After a long post and reads, deathworlds first vote. okay yeah you know what, takes me a bit to get up and start actually reading the game, I don't do meta reads, so it takes me a while to build up enough evidence/gut for my reads. Mass claim on d2 is probably the only way we win this game if we mislynch here. yo letsgo, the first readslist of the game, not exactly thrilled to be near the bottom of your list. I get why people hate on mech discussion, but that won't ever stop me from talking about it, also, I in general, agree with your position on Vittae here, strong opening, asking questions, generally pro-town. Ikarus is a town read for me as well, for much of the same reasons, none of that "haha im totally not nervous to play some mafia right now" vibes you get from newer scum. Ehhh memeing on entry isn't pro-town that's for sure, but personally, I wouldn't go so hard as to say it is damning either, closer to NAI than it is to a scum read imo. I consider the whole thing as NAI, might be reading into it too much. Hey now, there's a good shot that varcron is cit, or scum really. If you think about it, useless town pr claim is a good claim for all allignments. scum could be like: "oh hey, I'm a town power role! one of the few limited roles available, now a real town power will be forced to counterclaim in the event of mass claim and we can 1v1 in a one mislynched allowed setup, also, lookout/scout can suck it!" citizen could be like: "Oh hey, I'm a town power role! Night kill me instead of a real town power role. a powerful town power role could be like: "Hey, I'm a weak town power role, don't hit me scum!" a useless tpr could be like: "Hey, I'm a useless tpr! (I am making this claim for WIFOM reasons Kappa ) I too am hoping for more content from pod. yup. scum makes up 1/4th of the entire population, if we can increase odds of a random lynch hitting scum by a significant enough margin (right now it's 20%), then i'd say it would be worth it. loldebite, could you clarify what exactly you didn't like about MM's last post? This is poor logic, citizens outnumber scum in almost every game, that doesn't mean we should let our power roles die every single game. it is quite disappointing indeed, an increase of 20% up to like 33% (if I understood correctly based off of scum not both claiming tpr) is not particularly significant, nor an increase of odds I would like to out all the mechanical leverage we hold at night. agreed. mm seems to be quite contentious for people, appearing at the bottom of some peoples scum lists so far, and in the town lean areas as well. You scum leaning pod right now makes me sad, mans just a bit rusty yeah? I'd hope he didn't roll scum because I'd like to play with him more. You have all these town brownie points for me, but put me in the null slot? I think varcron's claim is smart regardless of alignment, and therefor is NAI. I think I understand what you're getting at right now, kinda lurky comments, being non-comitial in day chat. Reminder, we are in the first 12ish hours of the game, some people need a bit of time to get the ball rolling, I in particular like to think I have a much stronger D2 than a D1. Overall I like this list, I'm not so sure about putting pod in the very bottom and leaving me as a null at this stage of the game seems like a reasonable thing that you would do since you are not familiar with my d1 play. I really don't get the hype around RVS, is it meant to try and catch scum via vote count analysis? wouldn't that be better done when there are actual wagons being formed? Performative forsmorative, pro town behavior is pro town, and me tricking you into liking you as scum just because you happen to like walls is a skill issue, effort-posting is not alignment indicative. Regardless of alignment it is everyone's jobs to try to at least appear town, so they aren't being focused on being the days elimination, not alignment indicative. yup, wolf = scum = mafia = bad guys Actually I made it after the game started, which is a rarity for me but I originally had plans around SoD so I didn't have time to setup a big setup analysis wall like I tend to do. +1, I think objectively, debbie's mechanical talk is more pro-town than mine, solving the game =/= solving the setup. I will defend you on this point today, but no longer than that, hope to see some scum hunting from you soon. I'm still malding about the fact that my role-card that I created for that game didn't even get a chance to do anything. Ehhhhhhhhh this seems like a stretch to me, especially considering what vittae pointed out just below. Vittae isn't the lynch today, saying that now. make better content then Kappa and with that we have another reads list and a vote for loldebite. With everything in mind here is everyone's reads list as I saw them. Mizery's: Mizery ikarusdk Vittae Marshmallow Marshall Loldebite powerofdeath Deathworlds Varcron loldebite's: Ikarusdk Varcron Vittae PoD deathworlds mizery MM Vittae's: ikarusdk Varcron Marshmallow Marshall* Mizery* Deathworlds (Null) Loldebite powerofdeath Mizery's 2nd list Mizery ikarusdk Vittae Marshmallow Marshall Deathworlds Varcron powerofdeath Loldebite Here's my list: Deathworlds Ikarusdk Vittae Varcron PowerofDeath MM Mizery Loldebite Breakdown: Deathworlds: I am town. Ikarusdk: This mans gives me ceko first game town vibes, and I could read ceko pretty well back in the day, this is my strongest town read. Vittae: Vittae is asking all the right questions, getting meta reads, prompting people, breaking down interactions, this is pro-town behavior. Varcron: This revolves mostly around the claim he made, which while I think can be made by anyone of any alignment, I can see it more often than not, coming from a town perspective, especially as the first claim made. There is a shot we're being bamboozled so hard by an unprompted claim from scum, but I don't think that is the case here. PoD: Mans hasn't made a lot of content yet, but I suspect mans is just rusty, and is trying to get the gears to turn again, I suspect town, but intentional lurking is always a possibility. MM: MM has always been an enigma to me, and any attempts to read MM feel off, and I feel like he wraps all of his content in multiple layers of WIFOM that go over my head. I'll get a better feel for MM throughout the day, but this read I have the least confidence in. Mizery: This is a scum lean pending a couple answered that I might have missed, 1.) Varcron and I are were at the bottom of your list near the start, but pod and loldebite flew right by us to be the new bottom, what makes you think pod and loldebite are more likely to be scum? 2.) What caused MM to go into your town reads? Also in general it doesn't feel like your engaging too much with other players, responding such, you pumped out a couple of read lists but there's hardly any engagement from you to other players regarding game-related subjects. Loldebite: their vote on vittae is goofy, and while publicly doing the math for a hypothetical d1 claim is "pro-town" if it doesn't help us or actually provide a plan then it's a nothingburger. Outside of that setup speculation, what else has been done from loldebite? -sorry guys I missed SOD -talk about old games -ask about skips -talk about how mafia don't get cits -provide a read list with a lot of talk about "feeling" -suggest that tpr are expendable in a hypothetical d1 claim world -provide some responses to your reads list -do math -talk about math more -talk about MM's meta (also wtf I totally see MM as a powerwolfer) -provide games for meta reading -say something was funny -wow an actual post talking about interactions between different players, crazy!!! -poke at PoD's inactivity -say ika might be faking their obv genuine reactions -get confused by a vote from pod -jump out at a very choice misread of vittae's post. I'm not really buying that loldebite is town right now. loldebite 1 - PoD 3 - loldebite 1 - Vittae Loldebite retracts her vote on Vittae I didn't really buy it either but figured it'd be a prompt for interesting discussions - a kind of gambit I guess ? :D unvote 1 - PoD 3 - loldebite After my post about '4min post' and back and forth interaction between MM and loldebite, MM places a pressure vote on PoD oh nevermind my last question to you lol Ikarus, am I correct in my understanding that you are scumreading me because you think I'm wrong on Debbie? Also, what are your thoughts on the post I quoted from him, considering it basically answers your concern? ~~ Reading POD's posts, I remain unimpressed, but also feel like he's just being "the nice guy", remembering good memories about the site or something like that. That is not alignment indicative in itself, but it becomes scummy if it lasts too long without more elaborate content (considering his pushes, questions, etc. have been strictly defensive and borderline OMGUS-y so far, with a shallow "liking" of Vittae's reaction to his vote that isn't backed up by any other post in his ISO). Considering this, I am placing a pressure vote. I don't think we should lynch him just yet, but definetly think he is a little too comfortable with one vote on him. powerofdeath 2 - PoD 3 - loldebite After a series of back and forth with PoD and defending loldebite, MM votes on Mizery because alleged TMI - My townread on Varcron is pending mechanical confirmation, which shouldn't exactly be a surprise - he is nonetheless my top town read and that was very clear. - Your take on my Vittae read is actually the only correct one in this post: I have zero confidence in reading this kind of experienced, high effort players on D1 when they make no brilliant moves or terrible blunders. This one is DEFINETLY pending actually AI stuff. - Yes, loldebite is a micro-read with little strength (but still with SOME strength, which is why he is not in nulls, but in a town lean category that's right next to the nulls)... and? This feels like a gratuitous discredit with basically nothing around it. - I didn't say I was unable to read Ikarus, but rather that I'm waiting on a reply from him to read him. The question I asked him is literally two posts away from the one you quoted. Also, you just said "you said you weren't townreading him despite him being towny, ????!?"... which, once again, really is just a discredit without content - Uuuuh, that's all you have to say about your weird "we're winning"? I refuse to let it be dismissed as nothing at all without even an explanation. - You're acting like it's the middle of day 3 and everyone has novels to read people on, while you aren't even doing that yourself for the very good reason that it's not possible yet: your post is literally post #252. The level of certainty you are showing here does not match that of your posts that feature actual reads, and it definetly doesn't match the state of the game right now - which strengthens my TMI suspicions. Overall, this is a very dishonest post with a lot of misrepresentations (or partial representations, let's say) and a whole lot of red paint; it's literally a big discredit ball thrown at me without even an actual conclusion to it, it's just pointing at things to make them look bad when they actually aren't. There isn't a hint of genuine solviness in there. Mizery 1 - PoD 3 - loldebite 1 - Mizery MM changes vote to PoD ...actually, LYLO is literally tomorrow if we mislynch today powerofdeath My scumread on Mizery still stands and is actually stronger now, assuming POD flips scum 2 - PoD 3 - loldebite After back and forth with MM again, PoD votes MM. Again with "mislynch". it's almost like you know I am a mislynch. I feel like this is a hard slip by MM. Marshmallow Marshall 2 - PoD 2 - loldebite 1 - MM After a long time of discussions Mizery votes MM marshmallowmarshal 2 - PoD 1 - loldebite 2 - MM Vittae changes his vote from PoD to deathworlds Deathworlds I think this is a hit actually. 1 - PoD 1 - loldebite 2 - MM 1 - deathworlds deathworlds changes his vote from deb to Mizery Screw you vittae, I'm not scum. Mizery I'm voting between any of miz, loldebite, and pod, I refuse to be the lynch today 1 - PoD 2 - MM 1 - deathworlds 1 - Mizery Varcron puts his first vote on Mizery Mizery This lynch benefits the town the most imo I will not be here for EOD, as I have an appointment I need to go to. GL all, that's where my vote will stay. 1 - PoD 2 - MM 1 - deathworlds 2 - Mizery Mizery stands by her vote on MM marshmallow marshall 1 - PoD 2 - MM 1 - deathworlds 2 - Mizery After waking up and after quick review of comments I put my first vote PoD based on how I felt about the player powerfodeath 2 - PoD 2 - MM 1 - deathworlds 2 - Mizery Mizery changes her vote from MM to deathworlds What a boring vc deathworlds 2 - PoD 1 - MM 2 - deathworlds 2 - Mizery In a 3 way tie, PoD changes his vote from MM to deathworlds deathworlds is one of my null read. I am not hanging Mizery So like, I'm forced to switch to survive here. deathworlds 2 - PoD 3 - deathworlds 2 - Mizery In response, deathworlds changes his vote from Mizery to PoD PowerofDeath I'm sorry ma he was my dog I'll do it. I'm not going to be mislynched today 3 - PoD 3 - deathworlds 1 - Mizery In a 2 way tie, loldebite put her vote to PoD powerofdeath I guess I should land a vote somewhere 4 - PoD 3 - deathworlds 1 - Mizery loldebite changes her vote after a while to deathworlds Deathworlds one man CFD let's go 3 - PoD 4 - deathworlds 1 - Mizery Mizery changes her vote from deathworlds to MM, resulting in a tie till EoD. marshmallow marshall 3 - PoD 3 - deathworlds 1 - Mizery 1 - MM -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1109] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 17th, 2023 05:40 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff oh GREAT I forgot to put spoiler to the whole post My bad people -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1110] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 17th, 2023 05:41 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I meant to 'preview post' to make it neat and tidy.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1111] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 17th, 2023 05:51 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff could get some pairing and anti pairing info here but I need to sleep now so I hope it's of some use....but if not, well at least I enjoyed summing that up. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1112] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 17th, 2023 05:57 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ngl, just reviewing voting patterns on a surface level gives off higher possibility of deathworlds/mizery w/w pairing, rather than loldebite/MM, deathworld/MM. MM/Mizery cannot be in w/w, neither can loldebite/deathworld, MM/Vittae, Vittae/Mizery -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1113] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 06:21 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ikarusdk did you make a last will last night? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1114] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 06:22 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I appreciate having a vote history even if there's not a tonne I can infer from it rn. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1115] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 07:26 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Alright, here we goooooooooOOOO!!! (The "tradition" refers to the fact Varcron constantly gets lynched D1, to the point it became a running gag on the site; this is half a joke and half a way to draw potential reactions, either from Varcron himself or from people who would question my vote, but we ended up going entirely elsewhere) First posts, trying to get the game going through RVS, which I believe is the best way to gather information early on; sometimes, you get immediate information, but basically all the time, you can come back to the early D1 interactions generated by RVS using the information from later flips and make a lot of sense from it. I know I've solved games that way before, even though I don't remember the games themselves lmao. Unfortunately, basically noone wanted to get into RVS. Vittae seemed to say "we should make things progress" without actually doing anything to make things progress, which was striking me as performative/"look at me, I'm being proactive!", so basically suspicious. Hence the questions, which I actually expected to be poorly answered by Vittae at that point, so I was getting ready to charge and apply pressure: Their reply was quite satisfactory, though (explaining their stance with the site, also explaining that they tend to be a high poster and that they're restraining themselves), and opened the way to meaningful discussion with a question about Mizery's opening post ("thank god I thought I was going to rand wolf again"). I liked where it was going and thought that if the "high poster" part were true, it would show soon enough, and that if it weren't, it would also be obvious and easy enough to realize. Then came Deathworlds' setup speculation, which looked very big for very little actual content in the middle of page 1. I have historically had issues with reading people who make long, logical, analytic posts, because they tend to be coherent and I used to associate coherence/truth with town way too much, so I'm constantly wary of wall posters. I think I even vaguely remember getting fooled by Deathworlds himself that way, so I was pretty pinged by his speculation post; apart from the public service announcement of not using anti-town power abilities as town, it was more or less a "nothingburger", to use his own favorite expression. Hence I questioned him, got the not exactly satisfying answer "I like setup speculation, it's fun, and now is the time to get into it", so since I was getting nothing of note, I just put him in my scum lean mind category and went to question Ikarus, since he said he had enjoyed reading Deathworlds' post. Ikarus' statement, now that I think about it, was pretty spontaneous and genuine-looking, and I quite like it now; but back then, I was mostly interested in a potential association with Deathworlds, so I was in a "is he scum" mindset rather than in an objective observation mindset, I guess. Then Loldebite posted a mech post themselves, but in a way that felt more useful (there was actual talk about what we should or shouldn't do regarding claims, it was more game-related rather than just "in the air"), so I asked Ikarus what he thought of it compared to Deathworlds', Here, it feels like the extent of your reads on both Death and Deb come down to how useful you found their initial mech post, then? What is the deeper logic here besides "town make useful posts, mafia make less useful posts"? Why wouldn't mafia want to make useful-looking posts to get townreads?and that's when it seems Loldebite began being suspected by many, including Ikarus of course, for reasons I frankly could not understand (hence my later questioning of PoD when he hard pushed him). Ikarus' point itself was understandable and convincing at first, though: Loldebite's big post had indeed appeared 4 minutes after his last post, which was impossible to have thought and typed immediatly. It turned out Debbie had said he was working on a post, though, so there was in the end nothing suspicious, and I was left with pretty much nothing. I started feeling like Ikarus was town due to the way he seemed to be reading people (thinks people are wrong = thinks they're scum Why did you believe that this be >rand town and not just as likely mafia looking for a low effort way to make scumreads on villagers for making NAI mistakes?, which is what I believe he applied to scumread Loldebite, even though I'm actually still not sure), but waited on a reply from him about his reasons for scumreading Debbie before committing to my read. I think that reply never actually came, but other things (namely POD and Mizery) took my attention, so I kinda forgot about it and remained with my vaguely good impression of Ikarus (which, now that I re-read the situation, seems to make sense). Between the questions to Ikarus, I had been checking POD's ISO, Why was PoD your choice of player to ISO at this point on time, or were you doing several? since I felt like he had said basically nothing noteworthy in spite of him having like 4x my post count at the time (I remember checking postcounts and seeing me having 13 posts when he had 50 or so). Reading his ISO more closely, I found his posts were basically all either useless or entirely self-related (as in, they were all pertaining to someone who had said something about him, in a very defensive manner), so I decided to pressure him and basically try to lead town!him to becoming useful or to lead scum!him to outing himself by being unable to generate anything genuine-looking. It was especially useful in my mind since he was pretty much unattacked (not seriously, at least) at that point in the game, so there was new info to get here. Since he was hellbent on remaining hyperdefensive and strictly refused to address things that weren't just about immediatly defending himself (I had asked him about his read on Mizery, both in order to get him to speak up on something that wasn't directly related to himself and to evaluate the possibility of a POD/Mizery scum pairing, since I was also scumreading Mizery), I concluded he was absolutely not trying to "unrust" himself and his scumdar like a rusty townie would, and that he rather was just an awkward wolf who didn't know how to interact and thus froze on anything that wasn't strictly about himself. (I also remember Vittae expressed a very similar reasoning at some point in D1Yep, very similar thought process to what you described here., and I had a big mindmeld feeling that made me quite significantly townread them, whereas I had been careful not to townread them too quickly for being logical/useful before.) The fact I scumread Mizery at that time also boosted my confidence in my POD scumread, since it REALLY seemed (and honestly still seems when I reread it) that he was purely and simply refusing to interact with her in any way, as if he were afraid of outing her: From that point onwards (or rather, from the point where POD failed to answer the question that was colored in red), I was pretty much sold on a scum!POD, and was confident in my POD/Mizery theory. There were times during D1 where you were using the argument that PoD shouldn't be left alive until LYLO. How much of your push on him was due to wanting him resolved regardless of his alignment? Did this change at all over time since your initial vote? [Going back in time a bit] About Mizery herself, nothing had really caught my attention, since she was just acting like her own relatively lighthearted NAI self, until this: It starkly contrasted with 1) Mizery's own previous posts, which didn't contain any magic super confident solves that could explain this level of confidence and 2) my own feeling about the gamestate, considering I definetly hadn't anything confident yet (this was before I heavily scumread POD, I was just beginning to pressure him at the time and didn't know it would lead where it did), at least not enough to be anywhere close to saying we were winning. I then thought Mizery had TMI (and upon reread, I have the exact same feeling, and the knowledge of how EOD went only amplifies it tbh), and sensed a dissonance between the level of confidence in her previous posts Any specific ones? and the level of confidence this post showed. This snowballed with Mizery's "all your reads are pending" post in which she basically discredited me without drawing any conclusions, which was really just throwing shade; plus, the confidence level it implied once again felt really weird. She never really addressed this, so this feeling basically continued until the mess that was EOD, POD's flip and then Varcron's death threw me into a bit of a confusion Were you not expecting the Varcron death? - and rereading D1 rekindled my suspicions against her about the confidence level dissonance, btw, although it's weaker than it used to be due to POD's flip. Might be worth looking into further, but I digress. At the time, my suspicions on Mizery and POD were intertwined, mostly due to POD's behavior and especially to his complete refusal to address Mizery. OKAY that was longer than I expected lol, and I should eat now. Going back to D1 made me draw two conclusions: - I still suspect Mizery, and shouldn't forget about her What is your primary theory as to why Mizery as scum would unvote Death at EoD1? Especially if you think that Mizery can be scum in worlds where Death is town. What benefit could she have seen in those worlds to not commit to flipping town-invest-Death after already saying that I should have the final vote and laying accountability firmly on me for choosing who died, meaning she could have almost completely gotten away with her vote on Death? And if she's mafia do you, as somebody who has been her mafia partner before, believe that she places a bus vote on a potential wolf-Death that tips them over into being a competitive wagon (Death was getting no traction and I was about to switch away) but then for some reason unvote at the last minute as Death's partner to let it rand and get no bus cred instead of just swapping to PoD or sticking to the push on Death? I think this is a case of the principle "if a player does one thing, just one single thing that shows they cannot ever reasonably be mafia then that player is town even if the rest of their posts are the scummiest posts you have ever seen" and I'm interested in your take on why that one thing doesn't, in fact, make it extremely unlikely for Mizery to be mafia (assuming she didn't gamethrow which I am taking as a given as I know Miz well enough to be confident she wouldn't). - POD's lynch was basically inevitable and "deserved", without wanting to be rude; knowing he was town, reading his posts feels really weird, because that means he was misplaying so hard as a non-noob You better actually read it lmao Responses in purple! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1116] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 07:28 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Will respond to ika later. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1117] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 17th, 2023 07:45 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Bottom text It's not scum indicative. It is, however, typical of scum!MM. Maybe MM in general (don't know him all that well, reasonable doubt etc...) but I'd still say it is most typical of scum!MM. When have you seen scum-MM do similar before? How similar was it? I'm almost certain he's done similar stuff in OUaTitW, my first game. Better to risk a claim and maybe get a benefit than to not risk a claim and not get any benefit regardless, though? Well, yeah, but I saw being lynched as the "mf that tried to out our PRs" as a likely outcome if I tried, so I figured that it was best not to. Especially since I considered us likely to skip the first night, to have more info before the killing starts. So you thought you were so likely to be miselimned on D1 that you wanted to push for a no elim? Or did you want to get miselimned on purpose on D2? How does this fit into you saying you were a plausible nightkill if you also thought you were on the road to getting D1ed? None of those, I didn't think it was that likely I just thought that me being a miselim after I visited someone would be quite a soft blow for town when compared to a regular miselim, so I figured that if I was to get mislynched, then I'd rather get that happen on D2, which also lets me the option to get night killed if the tables turn. I also thought D1 was a similar situation to what we are in now, and thought that waiting for more info before lynching was reasonable. At EoD I thought I was a plausible NK, not so before DW claimed. At that point, pretty much. The only one I was wary about in the train was DW... So why am I not voting DW ? This feels like the opposite of intuitive logic. If you're not voting where the mafia want to vote then doesn't that mean that you're likely going against their plans? Well... Yes, that's my point. Oh I see what you mean, duh. I think several successive thought processes got mixed up. The "why am I not voting DW" is actually what I wrote at the time, so I guess I was still seriously considering the fact that PoD was getting bussed and that it didn't make sense, thus that DW was a better vote. When did you get from thinking the wagon was pure besides DW to suspecting it wasn't? Not before D2 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1118] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 17th, 2023 07:49 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Everyone is more experienced than I so I am going to assume everyone is capable of pulling something that seems unlikely, or doesn't seem to be the case. My initial reaction would've been no in day 1. But right now I think, yeah why not? There was a very convenient set of events that set loldebite off, and if it can make deb/MM an unlikely partner as a byproduct of the interactions, great! After a few posts, loldebite and MM did go back and forth at each other. MM townread deb here then deb accused MM of trying to pocket her, and MM calling her paranoid. Actively trying to distance each other? Possible. Not sure I understand what you mean by convenient here, but interesting opinion -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1119] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 17th, 2023 07:50 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Thanks for reminding me about the PoD legacy ika, will check it out later because I want to see what he thought he saw. Friendly reminder that PoD's legacy is : lynch MM. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1120] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 17th, 2023 07:51 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm going to list vote history (I'm assuming this is allowed) and perhaps someone with a better mind can get something out of it because I think reviewing the voting pattern could reveal something to go along with important questions that have been asked here today. Instead of sorting them per player, I think it is better to sort them chronologically. I'm going to ignore the first couple of votes that meant nothing. I will also list vote count. First meaningful pressure vote on the basis that despite the numerous posts, PoD's posts lacked in content and quality. In response, PoD OMGUS vote on Vittae 1 - PoD 1- Vittae Then PoD changes to lolbite 1 - PoD 1 - loldebite Loldebite votes Vittae because of "To be fair to PoD, I do believe them now when they said they're struggling to make reads" 1 - PoD 1 - loldebite 1 - Vittae Mizery's first vote after her read. 1 - PoD 2 - loldebite 1 - Vittae After a long post and reads, deathworlds first vote. 1 - PoD 3 - loldebite 1 - Vittae Loldebite retracts her vote on Vittae 1 - PoD 3 - loldebite After my post about '4min post' and back and forth interaction between MM and loldebite, MM places a pressure vote on PoD 2 - PoD 3 - loldebite After a series of back and forth with PoD and defending loldebite, MM votes on Mizery because alleged TMI 1 - PoD 3 - loldebite 1 - Mizery MM changes vote to PoD 2 - PoD 3 - loldebite After back and forth with MM again, PoD votes MM. 2 - PoD 2 - loldebite 1 - MM After a long time of discussions Mizery votes MM 2 - PoD 1 - loldebite 2 - MM Vittae changes his vote from PoD to deathworlds 1 - PoD 1 - loldebite 2 - MM 1 - deathworlds deathworlds changes his vote from deb to Mizery 1 - PoD 2 - MM 1 - deathworlds 1 - Mizery Varcron puts his first vote on Mizery 1 - PoD 2 - MM 1 - deathworlds 2 - Mizery Mizery stands by her vote on MM 1 - PoD 2 - MM 1 - deathworlds 2 - Mizery After waking up and after quick review of comments I put my first vote PoD based on how I felt about the player 2 - PoD 2 - MM 1 - deathworlds 2 - Mizery Mizery changes her vote from MM to deathworlds 2 - PoD 1 - MM 2 - deathworlds 2 - Mizery In a 3 way tie, PoD changes his vote from MM to deathworlds 2 - PoD 3 - deathworlds 2 - Mizery In response, deathworlds changes his vote from Mizery to PoD 3 - PoD 3 - deathworlds 1 - Mizery In a 2 way tie, loldebite put her vote to PoD 4 - PoD 3 - deathworlds 1 - Mizery loldebite changes her vote after a while to deathworlds 3 - PoD 4 - deathworlds 1 - Mizery Mizery changes her vote from deathworlds to MM, resulting in a tie till EoD. 3 - PoD 3 - deathworlds 1 - Mizery 1 - MM Holy shit you're courageous, I don't think I ever did that myself, thanks a bunch -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1121] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 17th, 2023 08:19 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff You're tailor bro, if varcron claimed to be anti-utility, then why wouldn't you thunderdome him? Wait, why did you say claim again ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1122] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 17th, 2023 08:25 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ohhh well that might explain dw's behaviour tbh Varcron if you did this, ily inb4 they have a coach & swapped me & dw and dw is tailor but varcron tried to kill me that'd be hilarious -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1123] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 17th, 2023 08:43 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb what have you done this game that you as a wolf either could never possibly replicate or would never willingly choose to do (eg your points on why I wouldn't choose to bus DW and my points on Mizery's EoD1)? Here's the first batch of 'em. I'm not sure there'll be others but I just remembered that EoD is less than 8h away so I should definitely go a little bit faster. Which brings me to my point : should we make citizens claim to clear out PoE ? I know, I know, it is lame and cringe... So, should we be doing it ? I most definitely wouldn't have phrased it that way if I wasn't snitch, I probably would've advocated for TPR claims. In fact, now that I pay closer attention to it, the phrasing here was because I hadn't thought of bucket claiming just yet (or not in those terms) and wanted to avoid PR claiming, because I didn't want to reveal my role, so I figured citizens could claim instead, which is the functionally exactly the same as bucket claiming. On another note, since you (Vittæ) and I seem to be the only ones online and active now that mizery's gone, feel free to engage me about whatever. To help jumpstart that, here's a rushed fresh out of bed readslist : cute people (T leaning) Ikarusdk (seems genuinely eager to engage in actual discussion to me or much better at pretending than I'd expect, and also cute posts) Varcron (Pretty good feeling about the interaction with deathworlds, above vittae for now because I know them a very tiny bit better) Vittae (Good feeling about the slot, I sense cute vibes. Yeah that might be irrational, sue me) boringly ordinary (odds are that idk how to read these but I'll pretend for now) PoD (Not much to think about but I get the tiniest of cute vibes and ) deathworlds (I agree that the mech is NAI, and nothing felt especially good or especially bad) mizery (I don't believe in judging off openings anyway, reads list is nice but honestly I'm pretty sure she would've done as much as any alignment) uglies (S leaning) MM (I very much dislike their last post to date. Sorting roles in utility buckets alone is worth doing, had I done that in my first game ever I would've seen you were scum much faster :) I'm not quite sure I would've been in the mood to theme my readslist that way (cute/ugly) if I had randed scum, but I guess I might've. Actually I probably could've, scratch that. If you think I spare games I signup for any time before it's actually started, you're off the wrong piste. There's a reason I can't come up with roles for KRCs, and it's because I don't do that. Yeah, 4 minutes, unless I was already working on it in that last post ? But I would've said so... mhhh Oh. Oopsie ! I'm not sure I would've shut ika down that brusquely if I was scum, but again, I might've. Regarding pairings, I think would be more likely to do it that way if I'm paired with them. FOR FUCKS SAKE CAN YOU READ THE GAME BEFORE POSTING STUPID SHIT ? My LITERAL LAST POST was answering that question already There I think I likely wouldn't have been that aggressive if I'm paired with them, UNLESS it comes off unprompted or spontaneously without any context provided in scum chat (I once got very mad at a fellow scummate IRL, but since it was IRL mafia there was no way for him to explain his reasoning), even though I get angry a lot less than I did back then, I think the additional frustration of the fact that I could've been forwarned or something might be enough to get me angry enough. Unlikely set of circumstances, tho. Oh, especially since that was writen as I was catching up in the morning. This is EXACTLY the kind of plausible shit spreading that you do as scum lol I might've omitted that part of brought it up only later if I was scum mate with MM. If I'm scum and not him I'd still mention it. Well, uh, thought your read on me had decayed already but I read back and I've no clue why I thought that. Yeah no, something's off. There's no way you've seen me at the far end of everyone's readslist and was content with putting me in the TR range for a mere mech post all the while saying "it ain't much, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯". Especially when your bottom read is based solely on another mech post and honestly the differences are not that great. Definitely not great enough that you can wave your hand and say "Nah all those 6 people are wrong, I can feel it !". I think if I was scum here, there's no way I don't think & mention TMI if I post that. He's lying lol Should've insta claimed, I knew it. I made it clear from my reaction that I didn't believe his claim bc of my role. No point rushing things now I haven't even caught up there's like 5 messages new posted when I post one Here I think the only way I don't panic if I'm scum is if I'm scum alongside DW Wait you were SERIOUS ? lmfao no way Same here, I either would've taken more time or wouldn't have left it at that I think -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1124] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 17th, 2023 08:53 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Tbh I wonder how anyone arguing otherwise would explain me switching to DW yesterday That's not something I would've said if I was scum unless DW is one too. I didn't have it in me to review individually my self ISO. Somehow, I hadn't thought about trying to find my own tells, very interesting experience. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1125] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 17th, 2023 08:54 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Your chocolate cupcakes rival hostess in a way no one else can compete Found that back and still have no clue wtf was this about. I even tried all possible caesar cyphers, just in case lol -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1126] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 17th, 2023 09:41 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Responses in purple! I'll just respond right in here because quoting a post makes the quotes within it disappear lol, so it's gonna be hard to do something similar to what you did. The responses are in the same orders as your questions. About the early mech posts: I am not reading them based on their usefulness, but rather on the intent behind them. A long, early mech post that contains useful information about what we should do and that indicates the player wants to take the day into their own hands is generally good (or at the very least not scummy, since I perfectly realize it's easy enough to actually be pro-town as scum by doing this). Conversely, a long, early mech post that really just... says things without the solving aspect is bad, because when you think about it, there is zero reason for town to put effort into something like that when it gives town nothing; hence, my read of the intent is that it's meant to look towny more than to be pro-town. I am aware it isn't a rock-hard argument lol and I don't necessarily give it tremendous weight now, but in the first half of D1, it was the most AI thing I could see - hence my not so amazing confidence at that point. About Ikarus' "wrong = scum" mindset being towny: He's relatively new to FM (and I dare say his prior experience in the SC2 arcade doesn't really count here, since it's so different), and he puts in A LOT of effort for games. The scum behavior you're talking about would fit an old player who doesn't see the magic in the game anymore and just plays lazily, sometimes lurks, etc. (I've seen such people on other sites). Plus, "wrong = scum" is a common new player misconception about scumhunting, one that I had myself when I first played. To be honest, I hadn't even seriously considered the option you're talking about, because I felt like the situation it would apply to is so alien to the one Ikarus is in that it becomes irrelevant. It becomes even more true considering it would have been damn ineffective lol. Why I ISO'd POD early on: Someone, I think it was Varcron, said in their reads list that I was "absent", basically that I had no posts and that they couldn't read me based on that. I thought "hey, that's not true lol" at first, and decided to go check the post count (which is done by going in the section (ongoing forum mafia games), and then clicking the little number indicated by "Posts:"). There, I saw that I indeed had only 13 posts, so I thought it might be fair for someone who may have overlooked some to say they just can't read me yet. Then, I noticed POD was super high on the list (I think he actually was the 2nd top poster, probably the first being you, Vittae), but that I literally could not remember any of their posts; plus, it was tempting to ISO him there, because the link to the post count page includes easy links to ISOs xD. About needing POD resolved: I strongly believed POD to be scum for the rest of D1; the fact he needed to be resolved before we couldn't take risks anymore only sealed his fate in my mind. The only small moment of doubt I had is when Deathworlds just voted him out of the blue with like 10 minutes left to the day, which made me evaluate his vote using the votecount, but I then realized he was just purely forced to self-pres (I hadn't realized how much pressure he was under at that point and wouldn't have thought he would end up tied for lynch), so my doubt was dispelled. Earlier posts that contrasted with Mizery's sudden confidence: First impressions Mizery ikarusdk Vittae Marshmallow Marshall Loldebite powerofdeath Deathworlds Varcron Vittae had a good opening that didn't involve a lot of mech discussion, something that is less likely for wolves to do in a semi-closed setup where talking about mech is 10% distraction, 20% fluff 15% wolves not wanting useful things to discuss, 50% helpful and 50% lame but 100% a possibility from both sides of the game Ikarus in general is very pure and i wouldn't touch, especially one of his posts which was uberpure and towny of him. Don't have a read on MM so far but Vittae has him as a gth townread rn it seems based on entry so I'll go with it because I can have a hard time seeing people who meme on entry and whatnot as Woflier than i probably should most of the time. Based on their interactions the two wolves are likely not varcron/deathworlds and varcon's carelessness about how he is percieved in rambling about another game is slightly towny but not wanting to discuss it further if it's truly a good memory he wants to revisit makes it an option that he's trying to not get suspicion from being too far off topic I'm not going to go into deathworlds much because my main suspicions come from his lack of content so far beyond mech discussion, and trying to boost varcron as a PR by saying the "i know what you're doing right now" as if other people aren't and wouldn't notice the callback, implying he wanted to make a point in thread to reference in the future when people ask him why he's not a wolf. He was also in thread when Ikarus posted the townread on him and despite interacting with other posts he ignores that one. Power is solidly null with no content leaning wolfy from post in thread being disengaged and really only interacting with deathworlds about how long their break was which could imply more likely not w with death but easily fakeable and easy to turn my read around here if i feel the need. If I sum up the reads in there: Vittae opening without mech (not terribly great), Ikarus pure (this is pretty much the only hint of confidence I see in there), MM is gth townread by Vittae so I guess he's fine (literally just a temporary sheep, 0 confidence, + doubt), says her two wolfreads are likely not W/W (basically the opposite of confidence lol), pending wolfread on Deathworlds (it's pending further posts basically), null on POD (its a nullread). Note that this is exactly the kind of reads I expected from someone at the early stages of the game; this felt genuine enough, even though it wasn't terribly hard to fake at all. This is basically the post that gave me an idea of Mizery's prior confidence, considering the rest of what she said was entirely unmemorable to me/just fluff/off-topic that didn't tell me much (I'm looking at her ISO right now and realize there literally was a bunch of thin air between this and the post that triggered my suspicion lol). Then comes: Come ONNNN guys ur no fun Were already winning this game no need to play it so [i]straight If you want to see the progression (or lack thereof, actually), you may just go look at her early D1 ISO by yourself, it speaks for itself. Expecting Varcron's death: Absolutely not lmao. I was pretty sure you were going to die, Vittae, because you were/are the de facto town leader and were towny (although I guess my townread on you at that point was based for a significant part on the mindmeld regarding POD), whereas he was basically a silent background player; sure, he had a towny claim, but it was still not confirmed at all, and the fact he was basically sleeping on it after getting some townreads made me have some background doubts. On Mizery's last second vote at EOD: Mizery seems to have somehow started to feel like POD was getting towny towards EOD (which I still fail to see, btw, and I don't think she actually explained this, so I'm thinking she might have gotten stressed due to knowing she was lynching town), so it might have been more of a dissociation from a mislynch than anything else in a context where both lynch options would benefit her: otherwise, it's extremely hard to explain why she would intentionally let the lynch be literally random. Like, you don't do that when you're beginning to townread one of the options as town, you just VOTE THE OTHER lol. As for the "as scum, she should want the investigator dead at all costs" part, I'm not so sure about this: investigator is just a rolecop (which doesn't always reveal much about alignments), and even more importantly, whoever was getting lynched there, it was going to be MYLO on the next day, meaning the investigator's results wouldn't even matter, since scum could just call him scum and discredit anything he would say as some kind of last hail Mary (which is basically what is happening at the moment, for the record). Apart from this, the statement that you should take responsibility over who dies has two issues: 1) you didn't seem to be actually going to decide it when there was less than a minute left to the day, so putting responsibility on you wouldn't work; 2) why in the world does town, who doesn't know what the flips will be, want to put the lynch's responsibility on someone else? That is just indicative of scum not wanting to have green blood on their hands when they know it's going to be green. Assuming W/W Mizery/Deathworlds, the EoD doesn't make much sense, though, because the bus towncred wouldn't be as easy and amazing to get by just letting it rand, so I have doubts on this and am not asserting it's the world we live in (and I think I already said this). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1127] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 17th, 2023 09:46 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Can I ask Marshmallow Marshall? Unless I am missing something, most of your posts in day 2 have been about Mizery and POD and replying about your actions. Between loldebite, deathworld and myself, and since there is a wolf among us three, who do you suspect the most? Have you had time to think about it? I am thinking about it, but I doubt it's the best idea in the world to give our complete worlds immediatly if we are skipping (and thus letting scum kill); this applies to everybody, btw. My stance on Mizery has never been a secret, so it's not like it's a problem to share it, but I'm keeping the rest intentionally vague for today; besides, it's not like there's nothing else to say lol. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1128] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 09:47 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I am thinking about it, but I doubt it's the best idea in the world to give our complete worlds immediatly if we are skipping (and thus letting scum kill); this applies to everybody, btw. My stance on Mizery has never been a secret, so it's not like it's a problem to share it, but I'm keeping the rest intentionally vague for today; besides, it's not like there's nothing else to say lol. +1 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1129] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 09:48 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Too busy to respond to stuff ASAP but important to note that MM is completely right here. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1130] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 09:48 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff *respond to stuff immediately but will respond ASAP -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1131] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 11:43 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff My mindset going into this game was that I was going to be very open, even if it sounds stupid or noobish, I'm going to say whatever I had in my mind to allow others to better read me as town. I was going to go as 'hard to read for a beginner' as I did in my previous two games (well I tried to be, not saying I was successful), but I thought that in this game where there are more players present, if i let myself read as town, it would help narrow down the list later on. Also as a beginner player who is being an obvious town, I didn't think mafia would prioritise killing me in night 1, Didn't you say you thought otherwise towards EoD1 though?especially if a PR claim appears. I knew my role was pretty garbage because I couldn't use my night action so I kept quiet about my role. That was my mindset in day 1. Again, I don't remember exactly why, but I town read him and I believed him to be a town. I wanted to say he was a citizen because I thought he was WIFOMing to draw heat to himself and I wanted to WIFOM him myself to make it harder for mafia to figure out his role. If he was trying to draw attention to himself what what your WIFOM trying to accomplish by saying he was a citizen? Was I successful? No. Was it fun to think I created some confusion? Yes. Now for the reason Loldebite had been grilling me hard. Yes, it does seem impossible for me to come up with the list and mechanics down in 4 minutes especially on a thought that just came up. My premise entirely depended on the potential of the post having been pre-written somewhere, Why did this post strike you as pre-written and not the one from Death? and the thought of deb working on it on a separate tab did cross my mind. But I had to poke for it because if by any chance I was right, then I ignored something that could've been very important. BUT I ADMIT. I missed this part in her previous post I still stand by most of my reasoning, but if I can change something would be about scumreading Lolbite for the reason I stated before. I still feel the same way, and perhaps Perhaps??? Do you not know why you voted? the reason for my vote on PoD is because of AtE, very defensive nature without countering any reasons or pointing to somewhere else. I do admit, I do feel a bit uneasy when it comes to Vittae, and it might be because Vittae is overly helpful. Asking too many too good questions, and with a lot of content. Perhaps Vittae is really good at wolfing. Perhaps this is because Vittae is naturally a good town player and highly experienced. But if you place yourself in my shoes.... quality of post wise, if everyone else is either town or neutral, and you think about PoD's post and Vittae's posts... it's only naturally for me to assume PoD is being the least helpful. I still felt uneasy about lol at the time,Why? and because there was alot of people scumreading Mizery, I thought this was the right step even if I did not scum read Mizery. ikarusdk responded in purple -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1132] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 12:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Here's the first batch of 'em. I'm not sure there'll be others but I just remembered that EoD is less than 8h away so I should definitely go a little bit faster. I most definitely wouldn't have phrased it that way if I wasn't snitch, I probably would've advocated for TPR claims. In fact, now that I pay closer attention to it, the phrasing here was because I hadn't thought of bucket claiming just yet (or not in those terms) and wanted to avoid PR claiming, because I didn't want to reveal my role, so I figured citizens could claim instead, which is the functionally exactly the same as bucket claiming. I'm not quite sure I would've been in the mood to theme my readslist that way (cute/ugly) if I had randed scum, but I guess I might've. Actually I probably could've, scratch that. I'm not sure I would've shut ika down that brusquely if I was scum, but again, I might've. Regarding pairings, I think would be more likely to do it that way if I'm paired with them. There I think I likely wouldn't have been that aggressive if I'm paired with them, UNLESS it comes off unprompted or spontaneously without any context provided in scum chat (I once got very mad at a fellow scummate IRL, but since it was IRL mafia there was no way for him to explain his reasoning), even though I get angry a lot less than I did back then, I think the additional frustration of the fact that I could've been forwarned or something might be enough to get me angry enough. Unlikely set of circumstances, tho. Oh, especially since that was writen as I was catching up in the morning. I might've omitted that part of brought it up only later if I was scum mate with MM. If I'm scum and not him I'd still mention it. I think if I was scum here, there's no way I don't think & mention TMI if I post that. Here I think the only way I don't panic if I'm scum is if I'm scum alongside DW Same here, I either would've taken more time or wouldn't have left it at that I think Don't have much to add bit thanks for the response. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1133] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 17th, 2023 12:05 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Can we hammer sleep yet I'm bored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1134] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 12:23 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Can we hammer sleep yet I'm bored Still waiting on a response from Death that should hopefully make his alignment readable, still waiting a response from you that should hopefully be able to make me actually be confident on your alignment and still need to finish some responses myself. And in general need as much from Death as we possibly can given the difference check rn. Not much point in hammering yet anyway. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1135] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 17th, 2023 01:53 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ikarusdk responded in purple My mindset going into this game was that I was going to be very open, even if it sounds stupid or noobish, I'm going to say whatever I had in my mind to allow others to better read me as town. I was going to go as 'hard to read for a beginner' as I did in my previous two games (well I tried to be, not saying I was successful), but I thought that in this game where there are more players present, if i let myself read as town, it would help narrow down the list later on. Also as a beginner player who is being an obvious town, I didn't think mafia would prioritise killing me in night 1, Didn't you say you thought otherwise towards EoD1 though?especially if a PR claim appears. I knew my role was pretty garbage because I couldn't use my night action so I kept quiet about my role. That was my mindset in day 1. A: I became a priority target in day 2, after both PoD and Varcron had died. Aside from you I was one of strongest town read players thus far at that point in time. Also I had claimed TPR at that point. Since death's scan essentially made it boil down to between loldebite and deaths, I assumed if they were going to kill a PR at night, they would want to kill me to keep the stalemate going into Day 3. Again, I don't remember exactly why, but I town read him and I believed him to be a town. I wanted to say he was a citizen because I thought he was WIFOMing to draw heat to himself and I wanted to WIFOM him myself to make it harder for mafia to figure out his role. If he was trying to draw attention to himself what what your WIFOM trying to accomplish by saying he was a citizen? Was I successful? No. Was it fun to think I created some confusion? Yes. A: I now realise it was counteractive because I was doing the opposite thing I 'thought' Varcron was doing. But at the time I wanted to protect him because I believed he was town at the time. If I could draw less heat to him, the better I thought. Now for the reason Loldebite had been grilling me hard. Yes, it does seem impossible for me to come up with the list and mechanics down in 4 minutes especially on a thought that just came up. My premise entirely depended on the potential of the post having been pre-written somewhere, Why did this post strike you as pre-written and not the one from Death? and the thought of deb working on it on a separate tab did cross my mind. But I had to poke for it because if by any chance I was right, then I ignored something that could've been very important. BUT I ADMIT. I missed this part in her previous post A: I did not really care death's post was pre-written because I took it as a fun speculation without much solving or prediction of gameflow thus did not gain towncred from me from that post alone, whereas I took loldebite's post a little more seriously because it was more constructive in terms of what I could expect as days progress. While it could've been written by a town's POV (well from anyone's pov) it read something like a mafia team could've written down in their chat to predict the game state and what path they could follow, and without realising she had already stated she was working on the post, when I saw it posted within 4 minutes, AND she presented it as a new realization leading into subsequent train of thought, I thought there was a possibility it was copy pasted from mafia chat. I still stand by most of my reasoning, but if I can change something would be about scumreading Lolbite for the reason I stated before. I still feel the same way, and perhaps Perhaps??? Do you not know why you voted? the reason for my vote on PoD is because of AtE, very defensive nature without countering any reasons or pointing to somewhere else. I do admit, I do feel a bit uneasy when it comes to Vittae, and it might be because Vittae is overly helpful. Asking too many too good questions, and with a lot of content. Perhaps Vittae is really good at wolfing. Perhaps this is because Vittae is naturally a good town player and highly experienced. But if you place yourself in my shoes.... quality of post wise, if everyone else is either town or neutral, and you think about PoD's post and Vittae's posts... it's only naturally for me to assume PoD is being the least helpful. A: I admit I did not have time to consolidate all the information I had because I only had about an hour before EoD. When I said 'perhaps' i meant that these are my reasons, but I was not 100% confident on my reasoning because I was also unsure of other players. If I have to explain my vote now, it'll be because when everyone was questioning PoD's posts, I was not skilled enough and let it affect my thoughts and feelings on that player. I started to stress, and tunnel on PoD everyone was already questioning, and justified why I need to vote him in my head even if they weren't good enough reasons (reasons I stated in my original post) I still felt uneasy about lol at the time,Why? and because there was alot of people scumreading Mizery, I thought this was the right step even if I did not scum read Mizery. A: Because even if she had explained prior in her post that she was already working on it, she could still easily have just said that to mask the copy n paste, hence why I did not respond to her comments straight away. I retracted my scumread on her because i thought it was weak, but that doesn't mean the initial feeling wasn't still there and feelings are hard to remove. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1136] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 17th, 2023 01:54 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff wrong shade of purple. myeyeshurt -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1137] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 17th, 2023 02:02 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Holy shit you're courageous, I don't think I ever did that myself, thanks a bunch No problem, not sure if it'll be of any help, but worth going over and perhaps something might pop up that aligns with your current thoughts about the game. It was fun to write up, didn't take too long to write. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1138] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 17th, 2023 02:09 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Well I think I'll skip and get off since I've got stuff to do. Goodbye to one or all of you guys, (maybe) cya tomorrow -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1139] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 02:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'll just respond right in here because quoting a post makes the quotes within it disappear lol, so it's gonna be hard to do something similar to what you did. The responses are in the same orders as your questions. About the early mech posts: I am not reading them based on their usefulness, but rather on the intent behind them. A long, early mech post that contains useful information about what we should do and that indicates the player wants to take the day into their own hands is generally good (or at the very least not scummy, since I perfectly realize it's easy enough to actually be pro-town as scum by doing this). Conversely, a long, early mech post that really just... says things without the solving aspect is bad, because when you think about it, there is zero reason for town to put effort into something like that when it gives town nothing; hence, my read of the intent is that it's meant to look towny more than to be pro-town. I am aware it isn't a rock-hard argument lol and I don't necessarily give it tremendous weight now, but in the first half of D1, it was the most AI thing I could see - hence my not so amazing confidence at that point. About Ikarus' "wrong = scum" mindset being towny: He's relatively new to FM (and I dare say his prior experience in the SC2 arcade doesn't really count here, since it's so different), and he puts in A LOT of effort for games. The scum behavior you're talking about would fit an old player who doesn't see the magic in the game anymore and just plays lazily, sometimes lurks, etc. (I've seen such people on other sites). Plus, "wrong = scum" is a common new player misconception about scumhunting, one that I had myself when I first played. To be honest, I hadn't even seriously considered the option you're talking about, because I felt like the situation it would apply to is so alien to the one Ikarus is in that it becomes irrelevant. It becomes even more true considering it would have been damn ineffective lol. Why I ISO'd POD early on: Someone, I think it was Varcron, said in their reads list that I was "absent", basically that I had no posts and that they couldn't read me based on that. I thought "hey, that's not true lol" at first, and decided to go check the post count (which is done by going in the section (ongoing forum mafia games), and then clicking the little number indicated by "Posts:"). There, I saw that I indeed had only 13 posts, so I thought it might be fair for someone who may have overlooked some to say they just can't read me yet. Then, I noticed POD was super high on the list (I think he actually was the 2nd top poster, probably the first being you, Vittae), but that I literally could not remember any of their posts; plus, it was tempting to ISO him there, because the link to the post count page includes easy links to ISOs xD. About needing POD resolved: I strongly believed POD to be scum for the rest of D1; the fact he needed to be resolved before we couldn't take risks anymore only sealed his fate in my mind. The only small moment of doubt I had is when Deathworlds just voted him out of the blue with like 10 minutes left to the day, which made me evaluate his vote using the votecount, but I then realized he was just purely forced to self-pres (I hadn't realized how much pressure he was under at that point and wouldn't have thought he would end up tied for lynch), so my doubt was dispelled. Earlier posts that contrasted with Mizery's sudden confidence: If I sum up the reads in there: Vittae opening without mech (not terribly great), Ikarus pure (this is pretty much the only hint of confidence I see in there), MM is gth townread by Vittae so I guess he's fine (literally just a temporary sheep, 0 confidence, + doubt), says her two wolfreads are likely not W/W (basically the opposite of confidence lol), pending wolfread on Deathworlds (it's pending further posts basically), null on POD (its a nullread). Note that this is exactly the kind of reads I expected from someone at the early stages of the game; this felt genuine enough, even though it wasn't terribly hard to fake at all. This is basically the post that gave me an idea of Mizery's prior confidence, considering the rest of what she said was entirely unmemorable to me/just fluff/off-topic that didn't tell me much (I'm looking at her ISO right now and realize there literally was a bunch of thin air between this and the post that triggered my suspicion lol). Then comes: If you want to see the progression (or lack thereof, actually), you may just go look at her early D1 ISO by yourself, it speaks for itself. Expecting Varcron's death: Absolutely not lmao. I was pretty sure you were going to die, Vittae, because you were/are the de facto town leader and were towny (although I guess my townread on you at that point was based for a significant part on the mindmeld regarding POD), whereas he was basically a silent background player; sure, he had a towny claim, but it was still not confirmed at all, and the fact he was basically sleeping on it after getting some townreads made me have some background doubts. On Mizery's last second vote at EOD: Mizery seems to have somehow started to feel like POD was getting towny towards EOD (which I still fail to see, btw, and I don't think she actually explained this, so I'm thinking she might have gotten stressed due to knowing she was lynching town), so it might have been more of a dissociation from a mislynch than anything else in a context where both lynch options would benefit her: otherwise, it's extremely hard to explain why she would intentionally let the lynch be literally random. Like, you don't do that when you're beginning to townread one of the options as town, you just VOTE THE OTHER lol. As for the "as scum, she should want the investigator dead at all costs" part, I'm not so sure about this: investigator is just a rolecop (which doesn't always reveal much about alignments), and even more importantly, whoever was getting lynched there, it was going to be MYLO on the next day, meaning the investigator's results wouldn't even matter, since scum could just call him scum and discredit anything he would say as some kind of last hail Mary (which is basically what is happening at the moment, for the record). Apart from this, the statement that you should take responsibility over who dies has two issues: 1) you didn't seem to be actually going to decide it when there was less than a minute left to the day, so putting responsibility on you wouldn't work; 2) why in the world does town, who doesn't know what the flips will be, want to put the lynch's responsibility on someone else? That is just indicative of scum not wanting to have green blood on their hands when they know it's going to be green. Assuming W/W Mizery/Deathworlds, the EoD doesn't make much sense, though, because the bus towncred wouldn't be as easy and amazing to get by just letting it rand, so I have doubts on this and am not asserting it's the world we live in (and I think I already said this). Thanks, my reply to stuff: Early Mech Post: Nothing I feel needs to be added. Ikarus' "Wrong = Scum" Mindset: I'm satisfied with this response. Was more asking because since newer scum tend to struggle to push villagers due to TMI it's very easy for them to go down the "push villagers who were incorrect for being incorrect" route as there is little to no fake solving or deep thought required. I think we just had different thought processes here. PoD ISO Early On: Nothing to add, I'm more surprised that I didn't realise there was a post count page with ISO links until now. Needing PoD Resolved: Don't have anything to add. Miz's Confidence: Yeah, I can see how you came to this. I agree that what you're saying looks more valid than I initially gave it credit for, especially if you take it at face value (I only interpreted it as semi-serious and had other reasons to believe Miz could realistically have a solid degree of confidence so I initially interpreted it as mostly NAI). Varcron's Death: Ok I can totally believe that you would believe this, I have a similar NK philosophy to what you're saying here where I'd rather kill immediately threatening players over townread players (obviously within reason). In this case though, I thought it was pretty likely that Varcron was Chemist (hence me mildly softing Chemist a few times to try to draw a potential Mafia Operator onto me and making a point of saying Chemists shouldn't holster to Varcron) so it might be possible the scum team did as well. More likely, I suspect it was more of a default kill. The mafia team may have also been hesitant to kill me expecting me to either push Death today if he's town or be worried about the kill reflecting too poorly on Death given my push there if he's mafia. Miz's Last Second Vote Switch: Will break this into bullet points. - I have to agree with Miz that PoD was getting townier towards EoD1. My losing confidence on PoD was one of the main factors for my vote switch to Death and I found PoD to progressively get more villagery later in the day as well even if I still found PoD to be the most appealing of the non-Death wagons at the time. - I'd argue that miselimning Deathworlds (assuming town here obviously) is significantly better for wolf-Miz than miselimning PoD. PoD was obvious LHF and, as we both agree, would have been very difficult to avoid having as the game losing elimination if brought to lylo. If Miz had chosen to get Death to flip, the game should have been basically over even if it did out herself in the process (it wouldn't have). - Investigator does almost function as an alignment cop in this setup (there are no mafia citizen equivalents so it functions as a stronger Neapolitan in practice, still useful in MYLO because now we have a confirmed mafia in 3 names so it excludes teams with 2 in me/Miz/you) but I'll give you that I completely forgot about the possibility of a mafia bartender or operator which would make Miz's play here as a wolf still poor play and very suboptimal but not outright game throwing. - Statement issue 2 is sort of my point: Miz already made the scummy-looking post. Why turn back once you've already made yourself look bad anyway? - We basically agree about the w/w bit. I think it's also worth adding that, until Miz voted Death, the Death wagon got no traction and I was about to switch away so she was as responsible for getting that wagon going as I was and then she stuck to it even when given a good excuse to directly switch to PoD (the claim). Didn't have a lot to ask as these answers covered what I was wanting to see. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1140] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 02:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff wrong shade of purple. myeyeshurt You made me worry that I'd exposed everyone to this terrible shade of purple. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1141] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 02:56 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff deathworlds please make sure you scan inside of Miz and MM tonight. Everybody else is a really bad idea for various reasons. ikarusdk please make sure you use your ability tonight on a player who isn't me (NK if you survive) or Death (duh) and as discussed before please don't leave a message that Death could confuse for a town investigator result if shenanigans happen. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1142] Auteur : ikarusdk Date : March 17th, 2023 03:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff skip -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1143] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 03:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Skip is at L-2, please make sure to give Death the opportunity to check in before any hammers. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1144] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 03:01 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Skip is at L-1 please unvote -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1145] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 03:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ikarus please unvote for now, don't want an accidental Hammer before Death has the chance to show up. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1146] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 03:04 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff My mindset going into this game was that I was going to be very open, even if it sounds stupid or noobish, I'm going to say whatever I had in my mind to allow others to better read me as town. I was going to go as 'hard to read for a beginner' as I did in my previous two games (well I tried to be, not saying I was successful), but I thought that in this game where there are more players present, if i let myself read as town, it would help narrow down the list later on. Also as a beginner player who is being an obvious town, I didn't think mafia would prioritise killing me in night 1, Didn't you say you thought otherwise towards EoD1 though?especially if a PR claim appears. I knew my role was pretty garbage because I couldn't use my night action so I kept quiet about my role. That was my mindset in day 1. A: I became a priority target in day 2, after both PoD and Varcron had died. Aside from you I was one of strongest town read players thus far at that point in time. Also I had claimed TPR at that point. Since death's scan essentially made it boil down to between loldebite and deaths, I assumed if they were going to kill a PR at night, they would want to kill me to keep the stalemate going into Day 3. Again, I don't remember exactly why, but I town read him and I believed him to be a town. I wanted to say he was a citizen because I thought he was WIFOMing to draw heat to himself and I wanted to WIFOM him myself to make it harder for mafia to figure out his role. If he was trying to draw attention to himself what what your WIFOM trying to accomplish by saying he was a citizen? Was I successful? No. Was it fun to think I created some confusion? Yes. A: I now realise it was counteractive because I was doing the opposite thing I 'thought' Varcron was doing. But at the time I wanted to protect him because I believed he was town at the time. If I could draw less heat to him, the better I thought. Now for the reason Loldebite had been grilling me hard. Yes, it does seem impossible for me to come up with the list and mechanics down in 4 minutes especially on a thought that just came up. My premise entirely depended on the potential of the post having been pre-written somewhere, Why did this post strike you as pre-written and not the one from Death? and the thought of deb working on it on a separate tab did cross my mind. But I had to poke for it because if by any chance I was right, then I ignored something that could've been very important. BUT I ADMIT. I missed this part in her previous post A: I did not really care death's post was pre-written because I took it as a fun speculation without much solving or prediction of gameflow thus did not gain towncred from me from that post alone, whereas I took loldebite's post a little more seriously because it was more constructive in terms of what I could expect as days progress. While it could've been written by a town's POV (well from anyone's pov) it read something like a mafia team could've written down in their chat to predict the game state and what path they could follow, and without realising she had already stated she was working on the post, when I saw it posted within 4 minutes, AND she presented it as a new realization leading into subsequent train of thought, I thought there was a possibility it was copy pasted from mafia chat. I still stand by most of my reasoning, but if I can change something would be about scumreading Lolbite for the reason I stated before. I still feel the same way, and perhaps Perhaps??? Do you not know why you voted? the reason for my vote on PoD is because of AtE, very defensive nature without countering any reasons or pointing to somewhere else. I do admit, I do feel a bit uneasy when it comes to Vittae, and it might be because Vittae is overly helpful. Asking too many too good questions, and with a lot of content. Perhaps Vittae is really good at wolfing. Perhaps this is because Vittae is naturally a good town player and highly experienced. But if you place yourself in my shoes.... quality of post wise, if everyone else is either town or neutral, and you think about PoD's post and Vittae's posts... it's only naturally for me to assume PoD is being the least helpful. A: I admit I did not have time to consolidate all the information I had because I only had about an hour before EoD. When I said 'perhaps' i meant that these are my reasons, but I was not 100% confident on my reasoning because I was also unsure of other players. If I have to explain my vote now, it'll be because when everyone was questioning PoD's posts, I was not skilled enough and let it affect my thoughts and feelings on that player. I started to stress, and tunnel on PoD everyone was already questioning, and justified why I need to vote him in my head even if they weren't good enough reasons (reasons I stated in my original post) I still felt uneasy about lol at the time,Why? and because there was alot of people scumreading Mizery, I thought this was the right step even if I did not scum read Mizery. A: Because even if she had explained prior in her post that she was already working on it, she could still easily have just said that to mask the copy n paste, hence why I did not respond to her comments straight away. I retracted my scumread on her because i thought it was weak, but that doesn't mean the initial feeling wasn't still there and feelings are hard to remove. Also ty for this, nothing worthwhile for me to be adding before EoD though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1147] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 03:50 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Guess nobody's here, I'll hammer a few mins before EoD unless someone asks otherwise. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1148] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 17th, 2023 03:51 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ngl dw not even showing up feels like a forfeit -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1149] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 03:53 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ngl dw not even showing up feels like a forfeit It's frustrating 40% of the player's I've been trying to read today haven't been cooperative but nothing I can do about that. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1150] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 03:56 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Final warning before I hammer. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1151] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 17th, 2023 03:58 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff skip -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1152] Auteur : The Godfather Date : March 17th, 2023 03:58 PM The day has been skipped! Stand by for the host's review and day-end post! Skip Day (4 [L-0])Mizery ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=974545'), Loldebite ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=974917'), ikarusdk ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=974921'), Vittae ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=974930') Loldebite ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/27307') (1 [L-3]): deathworlds ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=974453') -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1153] Auteur : MartinGG99 Date : March 17th, 2023 03:59 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff EoD2 Day was skipped. Night 2 ends in about 24 hours. Make sure to submit your action(s) at least an hour before that, or I may not accept the action submission depending on how far I am through the preparation process for day 3. Last wills will be accepted up until the moment I notify you of your death. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1154] Auteur : MartinGG99 Date : March 18th, 2023 04:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff SoD3 ikarusdk had died! They were: Patriot Bartender Their last will was: 1. I am a town bartender (my role in case of tailor) 2. Gave MM a fake feedback, You used your bulletproof vest, and you were attacked last night! 3. No matter who dies in night 2 between Vittae and i, the wolf pairing would be in an order of likelyhood IMO, (1)deathworlds/Mizery (2)dealthworlds/MM (3)loldebite/MM (4)loldebite/Mizery I am heavily leaning towards the first option at this point in time, given the effort loldebite and MM each have put in to answer Vittae's questions and I felt they were geunine. Between MM and Mizery, MM feels very town. Lack of deathworlds presence near EoD2 was a bit disappointing. Can't ignore the fact deathworlds have been townreading me all game, could potentially be trying to pocket me. Also Mizery's lack of contribution towards later day doesn't feel good. All I can say is that I feel those who don't seem to wanna solve this game are more scummy than those who do. 5. Again, there is no pairing between MM/Mizery as w/w Day 3 ends in roughly 48 hours! 3 deathworlds Loldebite Marshmallow Marshall Mizery Vittae -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1155] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 18th, 2023 04:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff EXTREMELY IMPORTANT - DO NOT SNAP VOTE: - If a villager ever votes for another villager in LYLO, the mafia team can immediately win the game by hammering (as votes aren't locked). - If you're an inexperienced villager then please, please check with the rest of the thread before you cast a vote that might potentially lose the game. - If two players vote each other and the game doesn't end in a quickhammer after everyone else checks in, you can solve assuming that there is minimum one mafia in the two as otherwise the game should be over. - The above principle applies to other voting scenarios. Two votes on one player means that both players are scum partners OR that the player being voted is mafia. - The vote should only be between two agreed-on people. Ideally two people should be chosen so that there is as close to a guaranteed chance as possible that there is at least one mafia between the two and then those two players should vote each other (I do not have any N2 mech results as of writing this post but, in most cases, the initial crossvote should be between Deathworlds and Loldebite due to the claimed Investigator result and the soft-counterclaim between their two role claims). PLEASE READ THE ABOVE CAREFULLY IF YOU ARE INEXPERIENCED. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1156] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 18th, 2023 04:04 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'd like to wait for Death to claim their peek and for MM to verify ikarus wasn't redirected before continuing. Also fml I was really hoping to be dead rn. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1157] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 18th, 2023 04:04 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Noooo why MM bro >< -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1158] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 18th, 2023 04:07 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff > effort loldebite and MM each have put in to answer Vittae's questions FTR don't effort read and ESPECIALLY never EVER effort read MM -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1159] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 18th, 2023 04:11 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'd like to wait for Death to claim their peek and for MM to verify ikarus wasn't redirected before continuing. Also fml I was really hoping to be dead rn. Lol, you were hoping to ? I guess that's more regretting all the time this game has stolen from you already than believing ika has better odds to solve the game :D Yeah I guess waiting for the feedback is best -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1160] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 18th, 2023 04:12 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb, why am I alive rn if you're town? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1161] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 18th, 2023 04:16 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Lol, you were hoping to ? I guess that's more regretting all the time this game has stolen from you already than believing ika has better odds to solve the game :D Yeah I guess waiting for the feedback is best Yeah from a burnout/effort PoV (I have spent as much time in the night phases solving as I have in the day phases if not more) and not wanting to be in a LYLO and potentially lose on my 1st game back, not really from a winning PoV lol because yeah it's hopefully better I'm still alive there. The fact that the scum team has chosen to kill townread but less vocal people over me two times in a row skeeves me the hell out as well. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1162] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 18th, 2023 04:21 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Oh and ftr Death/Deb now 100% contains 1 wolf or more due to ika's flip. No more shenanigans of fringe ika teams. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1163] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 18th, 2023 04:29 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff deathworlds you need to be as present as possible today if town. 90% of my information about your alignment comes from Deb's ISO and not yours. I really, really need anything you can give me here. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1164] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 18th, 2023 04:43 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb, why am I alive rn if you're town? Besides WIFOM ? No clue tbh. I'm pretty sure I would've offed you regardless if I was scum too -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1165] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 18th, 2023 04:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah from a burnout/effort PoV (I have spent as much time in the night phases solving as I have in the day phases if not more) and not wanting to be in a LYLO and potentially lose on my 1st game back, not really from a winning PoV lol because yeah it's hopefully better I'm still alive there. The fact that the scum team has chosen to kill townread but less vocal people over me two times in a row skeeves me the hell out as well. Understandable... Let's hope none will take it as an invatation for themselves to slack off lol Yeah it's weird, I really didn't expect you'd be alive. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1166] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 18th, 2023 04:46 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Oh and ftr Death/Deb now 100% contains 1 wolf or more due to ika's flip. No more shenanigans of fringe ika teams. Yeah THAT was the reason I didn't think ika would die... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1167] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 18th, 2023 04:59 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Besides WIFOM ? No clue tbh. I'm pretty sure I would've offed you regardless if I was scum too Surprised you didn't bring up Miz for obvious reasons here. But even Miz doesn't actually tend to submit her own kills as scum (at least as of last time I towned against her scum game she was incredibly lax about letting her flaking partner do it to such a degree that neither her nor her partner submitted a kill on at least one night - the kill then ended up looking terrible enough for Miz that I scumread her for it through pure luck). I know I'm rusty but this feels like throwing salt into the wound lmao. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1168] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 18th, 2023 05:15 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Surprised you didn't bring up Miz for obvious reasons here. But even Miz doesn't actually tend to submit her own kills as scum (at least as of last time I towned against her scum game she was incredibly lax about letting her flaking partner do it to such a degree that neither her nor her partner submitted a kill on at least one night - the kill then ended up looking terrible enough for Miz that I scumread her for it through pure luck). I know I'm rusty but this feels like throwing salt into the wound lmao. It's obviously a consideration but I intuitively consider WIFOM likelier. I hadn't expected that and haven't thought about it yet - and I won't do it before getting a good night's sleep. Wow that's wild, were scum kills mandatory & randomed if not submitted that game ? Strange, if you ask me. Tbh I think anyone here could chose to perpetuate a NK that suits their scum mate, I know I most definitely would but obviously I wouldn't be confident about my first actual scum game. DW probably could too if he thinks he's not likely to come out of the thunderdome alive. And obviously, you wouldn't kill yourself if you were scum either. Now that I think about it, ika is most definitely the best kill if you're scum. I guess I see why they did it now, uh ? WIFOM thick enough you can cut it and eat it... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1169] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 18th, 2023 05:17 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff But I should stfu and wait for feedback before we discuss anything serious. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1170] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 18th, 2023 05:21 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff It's obviously a consideration but I intuitively consider WIFOM likelier. I hadn't expected that and haven't thought about it yet - and I won't do it before getting a good night's sleep. Wow that's wild, were scum kills mandatory & randomed if not submitted that game ? Strange, if you ask me. Tbh I think anyone here could chose to perpetuate a NK that suits their scum mate, I know I most definitely would but obviously I wouldn't be confident about my first actual scum game. DW probably could too if he thinks he's not likely to come out of the thunderdome alive. And obviously, you wouldn't kill yourself if you were scum either. Now that I think about it, ika is most definitely the best kill if you're scum. I guess I see why they did it now, uh ? WIFOM thick enough you can cut it and eat it... Yeah, I'd be fairly surprised if anybody tried to seriously push on me though. I guess keeping me around for the paranoia could easily contribute though. I'm probably just going to ignore the NK for now. I have thoughts on how it affects specific players/teams but I'll get to it later. Will also likely be leaving soon but hoping to see scan results first. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1171] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 18th, 2023 10:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff deathworlds you need to be as present as possible today if town. 90% of my information about your alignment comes from Deb's ISO and not yours. I really, really need anything you can give me here. Indeed. I'm mostly basing on Mizery here to read between you and Debbie, but it's quite hard to actually analyze anything recent from you, Deathworlds, which kinda makes me worry you're happy with what's going on right now and don't want to break it. Also, I confirm I was told that I used a bulletproof vest I never had lol, and that I was attacked; ikarus did target me. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1172] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 18th, 2023 11:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff hey y'all sorry for being awol as fuck. been sick and resting. So starting with my night results: I investigated Marshmallow and found he was a citizen. Here's a wall talking about what I think was going through my medicine addled brain on day Vittae So I started off the game as I would pretty much any other game, with some setup speculation. I love setup speculation, some here know me for my crazy setups and games that I've hosted here before, chief among them, Insanity. I'm obsessed with hosting and setup balance, it's fascinating, and it's incredibly satisfying to come up with something clever and unique, and to have my players enjoy the games I host. So that bleeds over a lot into how I play the game. Mech talk is generally seen as NAI, and I agree, some would even say it doesn't help town, or it hinders town *cough* MM *cough*, but I will never not talk about setup speculation and balance. After some nothing talk about how long it's been and catching up with some pals, I pointed out ikar making a deal about mizery claiming town at the very start of the game. This is something I really see as a nothingburger, and I really don't get why people say that, what does town claiming accomplish in a setup like this with only two opposing factions? Like, are they trying to project that they're town? People should just assume people are town until proven otherwise or suspicion sets in, focus your brain juice on people that are acting sus. Reevaluate periodically. Bah I'm going on a tangent here, but really, in the moment I think I was just annoyed. then I pointed out that we can only pull off one mislynch, in the moment I was just trying to make sure people are aware of this fact, low number setup, not something I play very often. I then argued with MM regarding setup speculation, which is something I touched on in a previous paragraph, I argued that RVS is just as useful as setup speculation. Here is more annoyance, but otherwise nothing really interesting. Then we have some arguements about what is a useful role and what isn't, a bit of throwbacks to previous games I played and hosted, some mech talk, nothing really interesting. I then told everyone to leave a last will, I didn't think about the tailor at this time, but I still find it dissapointing that varcron didn't listen to my white bold text, next time I'll use size 5 or something idk. left my investigator crumb. This is something I tend to do spur of the moment, I figured if I were to leave a crumb of my role at all, this would be a great time to do it in a natural and subtle way. There wasn't really any planning done here at all, other than leaving a tool for me to use later in case people didn't believe my claim later. Ah the "funny varcron WIFOM" comment, this is something that still leaves doubt in my mind about what varcron is, it was here that I thought in the moment, that "varcron is a citizen, and he's trying to trick scum into thinking he's a powerful TPR by softing a shitty TPR" which is actually probably out of character for varcron but that's what I thought in the moment. I did not think varcron was being honest here. Then later I do some reminiscing then tell people I'm going to medicate myself then go to bed. After I get up I provide some games for vittae that I played. then I have the big wall post. I'd love to do a play-by-play on all the comments I did in the giant wall I did on D1, but most of those are saying exactly what I was thinking in the moment, so I'll only point out the ones that might be different. One thing to note is that I commented a lot on mizery's posts, which is probably because her posts stuck out the most to me when I was creating that quote/reply wall. Another thing to note is that I don't think loldebite ever replied to my question in my giant wall post on day 1, which annoys me but is expected from scum. I questioned my position on vittae's read list (null) at the time, since there was a lot of points made for me that seemed to be town indicator to me, specifically the mind-melding, which, if two people are agreeing with eachother and from your own town!perspective, people that agree with you tend to share the same alignment/situation. Express even more doubt regarding varcron's claim, then I have my reads list. Which I say is all accurate to what I thought at the time of posting. I should have prefaced this, but I don't do a whole lot of "fronting" with my posts, I don't really have an overall "plan" throughout the day, and I don't think I change how I speak specifically in regards to what role I receive. Like, I might change my overall activity level and when I make specific claims, but I tend to just say what I think. Might not be the most optimal thing to do, but that's just how I talk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Continuing on, I then continue to express some frustration, specifically with people not responding to my wall post (seriously, how does that happen?) I share my thoughts regarding PoD in response to vittae. I did an iso on pod, which I forgot I did later in the day ngl. then I did an iso on mizery, in which I concluded that she was goofy af. then I did half of an iso on MM, in which I concluded that I kinda liked the guy. ah then I got CFD'd right before my meeting, of which I was very, very, frustrated and annoyed about. Since I knew I wouldn't be available near the EoD. I have a bad history of being mislynched on day one, and I was just genuinely frustrated. Then I hopped back on after my meeting (on mobile) and self pres voted on PoD, this is when panic mode was sinking in, then I just panicked until end of day, I made my claim right near the end of day, and was face palming an hour or so after I hard claimed my role. that was all that happened on day 1 from my point of view. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1173] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 18th, 2023 11:28 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Sorry to post and ghost but I got to go to bed, then I work, I should've been here earlier, sorry guys :( -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1174] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 19th, 2023 02:03 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ok so either the team is death/mm or the team is lol/vittae or i guess lol/death get me out of here -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1175] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 02:26 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Indeed. I'm mostly basing on Mizery here to read between you and Debbie, but it's quite hard to actually analyze anything recent from you, Deathworlds, which kinda makes me worry you're happy with what's going on right now and don't want to break it. Also, I confirm I was told that I used a bulletproof vest I never had lol, and that I was attacked; ikarus did target me. Ikarus wasn't redirected by a coach driver then. Definitely not what I was expecting Death to claim if town and there was no mafia coach driver. Was expecting another Tailor scan (from Operator redirect or scum Bartender) with the scum team making a point of giving out zero information that way. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1176] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 02:26 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ok so either the team is death/mm or the team is lol/vittae or i guess lol/death get me out of here Convince me why it's not lol/MM please? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1177] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 02:29 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Speaking of Mizery I really need you to engage with me today please. I feel like I should be able to find your alignment more easily than anybody else alive rn but you're making it really difficult. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1178] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 02:30 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff hey y'all sorry for being awol as fuck. been sick and resting. So starting with my night results: I investigated Marshmallow and found he was a citizen. Here's a wall talking about what I think was going through my medicine addled brain on day Vittae So I started off the game as I would pretty much any other game, with some setup speculation. I love setup speculation, some here know me for my crazy setups and games that I've hosted here before, chief among them, Insanity. I'm obsessed with hosting and setup balance, it's fascinating, and it's incredibly satisfying to come up with something clever and unique, and to have my players enjoy the games I host. So that bleeds over a lot into how I play the game. Mech talk is generally seen as NAI, and I agree, some would even say it doesn't help town, or it hinders town *cough* MM *cough*, but I will never not talk about setup speculation and balance. After some nothing talk about how long it's been and catching up with some pals, I pointed out ikar making a deal about mizery claiming town at the very start of the game. This is something I really see as a nothingburger, and I really don't get why people say that, what does town claiming accomplish in a setup like this with only two opposing factions? Like, are they trying to project that they're town? People should just assume people are town until proven otherwise or suspicion sets in, focus your brain juice on people that are acting sus. Reevaluate periodically. Bah I'm going on a tangent here, but really, in the moment I think I was just annoyed. then I pointed out that we can only pull off one mislynch, in the moment I was just trying to make sure people are aware of this fact, low number setup, not something I play very often. I then argued with MM regarding setup speculation, which is something I touched on in a previous paragraph, I argued that RVS is just as useful as setup speculation. Here is more annoyance, but otherwise nothing really interesting. Then we have some arguements about what is a useful role and what isn't, a bit of throwbacks to previous games I played and hosted, some mech talk, nothing really interesting. I then told everyone to leave a last will, I didn't think about the tailor at this time, but I still find it dissapointing that varcron didn't listen to my white bold text, next time I'll use size 5 or something idk. left my investigator crumb. This is something I tend to do spur of the moment, I figured if I were to leave a crumb of my role at all, this would be a great time to do it in a natural and subtle way. There wasn't really any planning done here at all, other than leaving a tool for me to use later in case people didn't believe my claim later. Ah the "funny varcron WIFOM" comment, this is something that still leaves doubt in my mind about what varcron is, it was here that I thought in the moment, that "varcron is a citizen, and he's trying to trick scum into thinking he's a powerful TPR by softing a shitty TPR" which is actually probably out of character for varcron but that's what I thought in the moment. I did not think varcron was being honest here. Then later I do some reminiscing then tell people I'm going to medicate myself then go to bed. After I get up I provide some games for vittae that I played. then I have the big wall post. I'd love to do a play-by-play on all the comments I did in the giant wall I did on D1, but most of those are saying exactly what I was thinking in the moment, so I'll only point out the ones that might be different. One thing to note is that I commented a lot on mizery's posts, which is probably because her posts stuck out the most to me when I was creating that quote/reply wall. Another thing to note is that I don't think loldebite ever replied to my question in my giant wall post on day 1, which annoys me but is expected from scum. I questioned my position on vittae's read list (null) at the time, since there was a lot of points made for me that seemed to be town indicator to me, specifically the mind-melding, which, if two people are agreeing with eachother and from your own town!perspective, people that agree with you tend to share the same alignment/situation. Express even more doubt regarding varcron's claim, then I have my reads list. Which I say is all accurate to what I thought at the time of posting. I should have prefaced this, but I don't do a whole lot of "fronting" with my posts, I don't really have an overall "plan" throughout the day, and I don't think I change how I speak specifically in regards to what role I receive. Like, I might change my overall activity level and when I make specific claims, but I tend to just say what I think. Might not be the most optimal thing to do, but that's just how I talk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Continuing on, I then continue to express some frustration, specifically with people not responding to my wall post (seriously, how does that happen?) I share my thoughts regarding PoD in response to vittae. I did an iso on pod, which I forgot I did later in the day ngl. then I did an iso on mizery, in which I concluded that she was goofy af. then I did half of an iso on MM, in which I concluded that I kinda liked the guy. ah then I got CFD'd right before my meeting, of which I was very, very, frustrated and annoyed about. Since I knew I wouldn't be available near the EoD. I have a bad history of being mislynched on day one, and I was just genuinely frustrated. Then I hopped back on after my meeting (on mobile) and self pres voted on PoD, this is when panic mode was sinking in, then I just panicked until end of day, I made my claim right near the end of day, and was face palming an hour or so after I hard claimed my role. that was all that happened on day 1 from my point of view. Thanks for this, I'll respond with questions if I see anything worth following up on. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1179] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 02:36 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Loldebite deathworlds don't bother attacking each other / defending yourselves today (unless you see something very important that will help solve the game obv), we know you know each other's alignments and it tends to devolve into both parties making bad posts and slinging them at each other. Instead, focus on thoroughly solving who you think the second scum is. Post every stage of your working out in the thread. This is extremely important both for actually solving the game and for finding you as town so please do so and go over your thoughts in as much detail as you can possibly do. If you're a villager you need to be making posts and solving in a way that scum can't do with TMI. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1180] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 19th, 2023 03:37 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Convince me why it's not lol/MM please? investigator wouldn't see citizen on a wolf -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1181] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 19th, 2023 03:38 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Right? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1182] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 19th, 2023 03:39 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah if he found a goon they would show up as loyalist not citizen, so mm is only ever a wolf with death -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1183] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 03:40 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff investigator wouldn't see citizen on a wolf Mafia Bartender or Operator (Redirector) could exist still. Although as I commented earlier I'd be surprised if Death is town and one of those roles existed and they didn't just give Death a Tailor result again. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1184] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 03:41 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah if he found a goon they would show up as loyalist not citizen, so mm is only ever a wolf with death No goons, right? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1185] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 03:42 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Town: Citizen (VT) Armorsmith (BPV Giver) Gunsmith (Gun Giver) Chemist (Poisoner) Electromaniac (Charge) Physician (Doctor) Stagecoach (Bus Driver) Snitch (Role Reveal on Death) Tracker Scout (Watcher) Investigator (Rolecop) Janitor Bartender (Fake Feedback) Coward (Hider/Redirector) Tailor Operator (Target Swap) Mafia: Blacksmith (Gunsmith alt) Chemist (Poisoner) Electromaniac (Charge) Physician (Doctor) Stagecoach (Bus Driver) Tracker Scout (Watcher) Investigator (Rolecop) Janitor Bartender (Fake Feedback) Coward (Hider/Redirector) Tailor Operator (Target Swap) This is the list I have in my notes. No goon so there are two mafia roles in play. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1186] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 19th, 2023 03:42 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Death why check MM and not, say, me, someone you think is a wolf with lol -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1187] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 19th, 2023 03:43 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff hey y'all sorry for being awol as fuck. been sick and resting. So starting with my night results: I investigated Marshmallow and found he was a citizen. Here's a wall talking about what I think was going through my medicine addled brain on day Vittae So I started off the game as I would pretty much any other game, with some setup speculation. I love setup speculation, some here know me for my crazy setups and games that I've hosted here before, chief among them, Insanity. I'm obsessed with hosting and setup balance, it's fascinating, and it's incredibly satisfying to come up with something clever and unique, and to have my players enjoy the games I host. So that bleeds over a lot into how I play the game. Mech talk is generally seen as NAI, and I agree, some would even say it doesn't help town, or it hinders town *cough* MM *cough*, but I will never not talk about setup speculation and balance. After some nothing talk about how long it's been and catching up with some pals, I pointed out ikar making a deal about mizery claiming town at the very start of the game. This is something I really see as a nothingburger, and I really don't get why people say that, what does town claiming accomplish in a setup like this with only two opposing factions? Like, are they trying to project that they're town? People should just assume people are town until proven otherwise or suspicion sets in, focus your brain juice on people that are acting sus. Reevaluate periodically. Bah I'm going on a tangent here, but really, in the moment I think I was just annoyed. then I pointed out that we can only pull off one mislynch, in the moment I was just trying to make sure people are aware of this fact, low number setup, not something I play very often. I then argued with MM regarding setup speculation, which is something I touched on in a previous paragraph, I argued that RVS is just as useful as setup speculation. Here is more annoyance, but otherwise nothing really interesting. Then we have some arguements about what is a useful role and what isn't, a bit of throwbacks to previous games I played and hosted, some mech talk, nothing really interesting. I then told everyone to leave a last will, I didn't think about the tailor at this time, but I still find it dissapointing that varcron didn't listen to my white bold text, next time I'll use size 5 or something idk. left my investigator crumb. This is something I tend to do spur of the moment, I figured if I were to leave a crumb of my role at all, this would be a great time to do it in a natural and subtle way. There wasn't really any planning done here at all, other than leaving a tool for me to use later in case people didn't believe my claim later. Ah the "funny varcron WIFOM" comment, this is something that still leaves doubt in my mind about what varcron is, it was here that I thought in the moment, that "varcron is a citizen, and he's trying to trick scum into thinking he's a powerful TPR by softing a shitty TPR" which is actually probably out of character for varcron but that's what I thought in the moment. I did not think varcron was being honest here. Then later I do some reminiscing then tell people I'm going to medicate myself then go to bed. After I get up I provide some games for vittae that I played. then I have the big wall post. I'd love to do a play-by-play on all the comments I did in the giant wall I did on D1, but most of those are saying exactly what I was thinking in the moment, so I'll only point out the ones that might be different. One thing to note is that I commented a lot on mizery's posts, which is probably because her posts stuck out the most to me when I was creating that quote/reply wall. Another thing to note is that I don't think loldebite ever replied to my question in my giant wall post on day 1, which annoys me but is expected from scum. I questioned my position on vittae's read list (null) at the time, since there was a lot of points made for me that seemed to be town indicator to me, specifically the mind-melding, which, if two people are agreeing with eachother and from your own town!perspective, people that agree with you tend to share the same alignment/situation. Express even more doubt regarding varcron's claim, then I have my reads list. Which I say is all accurate to what I thought at the time of posting. I should have prefaced this, but I don't do a whole lot of "fronting" with my posts, I don't really have an overall "plan" throughout the day, and I don't think I change how I speak specifically in regards to what role I receive. Like, I might change my overall activity level and when I make specific claims, but I tend to just say what I think. Might not be the most optimal thing to do, but that's just how I talk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Continuing on, I then continue to express some frustration, specifically with people not responding to my wall post (seriously, how does that happen?) I share my thoughts regarding PoD in response to vittae. I did an iso on pod, which I forgot I did later in the day ngl. then I did an iso on mizery, in which I concluded that she was goofy af. then I did half of an iso on MM, in which I concluded that I kinda liked the guy. ah then I got CFD'd right before my meeting, of which I was very, very, frustrated and annoyed about. Since I knew I wouldn't be available near the EoD. I have a bad history of being mislynched on day one, and I was just genuinely frustrated. Then I hopped back on after my meeting (on mobile) and self pres voted on PoD, this is when panic mode was sinking in, then I just panicked until end of day, I made my claim right near the end of day, and was face palming an hour or so after I hard claimed my role. that was all that happened on day 1 from my point of view. uuuuughhhhh you hate to see it -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1188] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 19th, 2023 03:43 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Town: Citizen (VT) Armorsmith (BPV Giver) Gunsmith (Gun Giver) Chemist (Poisoner) Electromaniac (Charge) Physician (Doctor) Stagecoach (Bus Driver) Snitch (Role Reveal on Death) Tracker Scout (Watcher) Investigator (Rolecop) Janitor Bartender (Fake Feedback) Coward (Hider/Redirector) Tailor Operator (Target Swap) Mafia: Blacksmith (Gunsmith alt) Chemist (Poisoner) Electromaniac (Charge) Physician (Doctor) Stagecoach (Bus Driver) Tracker Scout (Watcher) Investigator (Rolecop) Janitor Bartender (Fake Feedback) Coward (Hider/Redirector) Tailor Operator (Target Swap) This is the list I have in my notes. No goon so there are two mafia roles in play. Yeah idk what i said there but what i was trying to say as should be obvious is that citizen is a confirmed village role and death is claiming that MM is cit, therefore MM is only a wolf with death -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1189] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 19th, 2023 03:45 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ok so either the team is death/mm or the team is lol/vittae or i guess lol/death get me out of here Okay so you answered the question I had in store for you before I even got to ask, nice. It was "would Vittæ ever bus DW after I accused him of bussing & could he be bullshiting me about what he said about it ?", which I guess the answer is no if dw/vittæ is not a team you consider -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1190] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 03:47 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Miz can you just talk me through your EoD1 please? Wanted to know why you unvoted basically, what was going through your head there? Also, I'm assuming you were PR softing was to bait a NK?Or was there more behind that? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1191] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 03:49 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah idk what i said there but what i was trying to say as should be obvious is that citizen is a confirmed village role and death is claiming that MM is cit, therefore MM is only a wolf with death True but only if Death's results as town aren't scuffed. Still two scum roles in play that could cause that to happen (Operator, Bartender). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1192] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 19th, 2023 03:54 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Here's last night's LW : I'm 98% sure that PoD/MM was T/S, heeding the advice of "listening to the dead" I'm 80% sold on DW being scum with MM There's a slight chance that he's been misdirected by ika, slightly lower than he's been misdirected by mizery and almost 0% than he's been misdirected by vittæ IMO I targeted MM, relying on the fact that I've advocated so strongly for getting confirmed town, and betting on the fact that if I was to die, he would be revealed as a NON citizen @vittæ how likely would you say it is for s!miz to prefer to keep you alive over ika, considering the latter was scum reading her ? TBH the NK & the scan both being what I'd consider the bare bones level of scum play, ie definitely not what I was expecting, is the only thing that's making me doubt myself (wine overdose) and rush nitro push MM. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1193] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 19th, 2023 03:57 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Loldebite deathworlds don't bother attacking each other / defending yourselves today (unless you see something very important that will help solve the game obv), we know you know each other's alignments and it tends to devolve into both parties making bad posts and slinging them at each other. Instead, focus on thoroughly solving who you think the second scum is. Post every stage of your working out in the thread. This is extremely important both for actually solving the game and for finding you as town so please do so and go over your thoughts in as much detail as you can possibly do. If you're a villager you need to be making posts and solving in a way that scum can't do with TMI. Mizery could that be TMI ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1194] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 19th, 2023 03:58 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff True but only if Death's results as town aren't scuffed. Still two scum roles in play that could cause that to happen (Operator, Bartender). Might be having another paranoia attack but it seems to be conflicting with this post a bit -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1195] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 19th, 2023 03:59 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Well either way tbh, even if DW is town and vittæ's scum, I don't think vittæ/mizery is S/S so that makes MM scum, which means my vote's still going there. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1196] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 04:00 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Mizery could that be TMI ? You are mechanically guaranteed to contain one scum? So from your PoVs as town the other person is a guaranteed scum and at least one of you is likely town. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1197] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 19th, 2023 04:03 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff You are mechanically guaranteed to contain one scum? So from your PoVs as town the other person is a guaranteed scum and at least one of you is likely town. Maybe I'm overseeing something but that assertion seems to be based on snitch & invest never being teamed together, is it not ? If so, how strong really is that hypothesis ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1198] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 04:05 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Here's last night's LW : I'm 98% sure that PoD/MM was T/S, heeding the advice of "listening to the dead" I'm 80% sold on DW being scum with MM There's a slight chance that he's been misdirected by ika, slightly lower than he's been misdirected by mizery and almost 0% than he's been misdirected by vittæ IMO I targeted MM, relying on the fact that I've advocated so strongly for getting confirmed town, and betting on the fact that if I was to die, he would be revealed as a NON citizen @vittæ how likely would you say it is for s!miz to prefer to keep you alive over ika, considering the latter was scum reading her ? TBH the NK & the scan both being what I'd consider the bare bones level of scum play, ie definitely not what I was expecting, is the only thing that's making me doubt myself (wine overdose) and rush nitro push MM. I would expect Miz to be pretty likely to keep me alive if she's partners with you (I expect she would let you make the choice though). Miz/Death has real guts if they're keeping me alive after the whole Miz/Death w/w thing on D1. Not strictly impossible due to my defence of Miz but wouldn't expect it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1199] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 04:06 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Maybe I'm overseeing something but that assertion seems to be based on snitch & invest never being teamed together, is it not ? If so, how strong really is that hypothesis ? There are not 4 power roles in the game. You are both claiming to be the 3rd power role. With ika dying it went from mech one scum in the three of you to mech one scum in the two of you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1200] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 19th, 2023 04:06 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Maybe I'm overseeing something but that assertion seems to be based on snitch & invest never being teamed together, is it not ? If so, how strong really is that hypothesis ? He...is pushing you....saying you're the tailor. .. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1201] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 19th, 2023 04:06 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I would expect Miz to be pretty likely to keep me alive if she's partners with you (I expect she would let you make the choice though). Miz/Death has real guts if they're keeping me alive after the whole Miz/Death w/w thing on D1. Not strictly impossible due to my defence of Miz but wouldn't expect it. Oh yeah I had overlooked the fact that your initial push on DW was based on a s!miz s!dw interaction. Yeah, okay that seems a bit unlikely -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1202] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 04:06 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff There are not 4 power roles in the game. You are both claiming to be the 3rd power role. With ika dying it went from mech one scum in the three of you to mech one scum in the two of you. *4 town power roles, obviously -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1203] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 19th, 2023 04:07 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff There are not 4 power roles in the game. You are both claiming to be the 3rd power role. With ika dying it went from mech one scum in the three of you to mech one scum in the two of you. Omg so true -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1204] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 19th, 2023 04:08 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff So it's just lol and he wplfslipped by thinking there wasn't on mech wolf,? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1205] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 19th, 2023 04:09 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff There are not 4 power roles in the game. You are both claiming to be the 3rd power role. With ika dying it went from mech one scum in the three of you to mech one scum in the two of you. 3rd PR could still be hiding among cits, could it not ? Oh I'm dumb, we've just witnessed the 2nd Town PR flip... I guess only world where dw is town is one with scuù tailoring varcron as chem, then. Yeaaaah not 100% mechanically confirmed now but -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1206] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 19th, 2023 04:09 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff He...is pushing you....saying you're the tailor. .. Sure, that's nothing to do with mechanical confirmation tho. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1207] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 19th, 2023 04:10 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff So it's just lol and he wplfslipped by thinking there wasn't on mech wolf,? How tf is it a wolfslip lol, if there really is tailor as dw claims, nothing's confirmed yet -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1208] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 19th, 2023 04:11 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Which I guess is the whole point of the tailor accusation -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1209] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 19th, 2023 04:12 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff 3rd PR could still be hiding among cits, could it not ? Oh I'm dumb, we've just witnessed the 2nd Town PR flip... I guess only world where dw is town is one with scuù tailoring varcron as chem, then. Yeaaaah not 100% mechanically confirmed now but wait no that would mean both scum hid amongs cits, there's like, no way... Nevermind -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1210] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 04:17 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff It's not a strict mech confirmation (forgot tailor) but yes it's extremely likely that you're not t/t both from mech and in the thread posting. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1211] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 04:20 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff We should also probably decide on a voting order. It's much less important without locked votes but it's still more useful than not having one. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1212] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 19th, 2023 04:23 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'll just respond right in here because quoting a post makes the quotes within it disappear lol, so it's gonna be hard to do something similar to what you did. The responses are in the same orders as your questions. About the early mech posts: I am not reading them based on their usefulness, but rather on the intent behind them. A long, early mech post that contains useful information about what we should do and that indicates the player wants to take the day into their own hands is generally good (or at the very least not scummy, since I perfectly realize it's easy enough to actually be pro-town as scum by doing this). Conversely, a long, early mech post that really just... says things without the solving aspect is bad, because when you think about it, there is zero reason for town to put effort into something like that when it gives town nothing; hence, my read of the intent is that it's meant to look towny more than to be pro-town. I am aware it isn't a rock-hard argument lol and I don't necessarily give it tremendous weight now, but in the first half of D1, it was the most AI thing I could see - hence my not so amazing confidence at that point. About Ikarus' "wrong = scum" mindset being towny: He's relatively new to FM (and I dare say his prior experience in the SC2 arcade doesn't really count here, since it's so different), and he puts in A LOT of effort for games. The scum behavior you're talking about would fit an old player who doesn't see the magic in the game anymore and just plays lazily, sometimes lurks, etc. (I've seen such people on other sites). Plus, "wrong = scum" is a common new player misconception about scumhunting, one that I had myself when I first played. To be honest, I hadn't even seriously considered the option you're talking about, because I felt like the situation it would apply to is so alien to the one Ikarus is in that it becomes irrelevant. It becomes even more true considering it would have been damn ineffective lol. Why I ISO'd POD early on: Someone, I think it was Varcron, said in their reads list that I was "absent", basically that I had no posts and that they couldn't read me based on that. I thought "hey, that's not true lol" at first, and decided to go check the post count (which is done by going in the section (ongoing forum mafia games), and then clicking the little number indicated by "Posts:"). There, I saw that I indeed had only 13 posts, so I thought it might be fair for someone who may have overlooked some to say they just can't read me yet. Then, I noticed POD was super high on the list (I think he actually was the 2nd top poster, probably the first being you, Vittae), but that I literally could not remember any of their posts; plus, it was tempting to ISO him there, because the link to the post count page includes easy links to ISOs xD. About needing POD resolved: I strongly believed POD to be scum for the rest of D1; the fact he needed to be resolved before we couldn't take risks anymore only sealed his fate in my mind. The only small moment of doubt I had is when Deathworlds just voted him out of the blue with like 10 minutes left to the day, which made me evaluate his vote using the votecount, but I then realized he was just purely forced to self-pres (I hadn't realized how much pressure he was under at that point and wouldn't have thought he would end up tied for lynch), so my doubt was dispelled. Earlier posts that contrasted with Mizery's sudden confidence: If I sum up the reads in there: Vittae opening without mech (not terribly great), Ikarus pure (this is pretty much the only hint of confidence I see in there), MM is gth townread by Vittae so I guess he's fine (literally just a temporary sheep, 0 confidence, + doubt), says her two wolfreads are likely not W/W (basically the opposite of confidence lol), pending wolfread on Deathworlds (it's pending further posts basically), null on POD (its a nullread). Note that this is exactly the kind of reads I expected from someone at the early stages of the game; this felt genuine enough, even though it wasn't terribly hard to fake at all. This is basically the post that gave me an idea of Mizery's prior confidence, considering the rest of what she said was entirely unmemorable to me/just fluff/off-topic that didn't tell me much (I'm looking at her ISO right now and realize there literally was a bunch of thin air between this and the post that triggered my suspicion lol). Then comes: If you want to see the progression (or lack thereof, actually), you may just go look at her early D1 ISO by yourself, it speaks for itself. Expecting Varcron's death: Absolutely not lmao. I was pretty sure you were going to die, Vittae, because you were/are the de facto town leader and were towny (although I guess my townread on you at that point was based for a significant part on the mindmeld regarding POD), whereas he was basically a silent background player; sure, he had a towny claim, but it was still not confirmed at all, and the fact he was basically sleeping on it after getting some townreads made me have some background doubts. On Mizery's last second vote at EOD: Mizery seems to have somehow started to feel like POD was getting towny towards EOD (which I still fail to see, btw, and I don't think she actually explained this, so I'm thinking she might have gotten stressed due to knowing she was lynching town), so it might have been more of a dissociation from a mislynch than anything else in a context where both lynch options would benefit her: otherwise, it's extremely hard to explain why she would intentionally let the lynch be literally random. Like, you don't do that when you're beginning to townread one of the options as town, you just VOTE THE OTHER lol. As for the "as scum, she should want the investigator dead at all costs" part, I'm not so sure about this: investigator is just a rolecop (which doesn't always reveal much about alignments), and even more importantly, whoever was getting lynched there, it was going to be MYLO on the next day, meaning the investigator's results wouldn't even matter, since scum could just call him scum and discredit anything he would say as some kind of last hail Mary (which is basically what is happening at the moment, for the record). Apart from this, the statement that you should take responsibility over who dies has two issues: 1) you didn't seem to be actually going to decide it when there was less than a minute left to the day, so putting responsibility on you wouldn't work; 2) why in the world does town, who doesn't know what the flips will be, want to put the lynch's responsibility on someone else? That is just indicative of scum not wanting to have green blood on their hands when they know it's going to be green. Assuming W/W Mizery/Deathworlds, the EoD doesn't make much sense, though, because the bus towncred wouldn't be as easy and amazing to get by just letting it rand, so I have doubts on this and am not asserting it's the world we live in (and I think I already said this). Green : it WOULD reveal something on s!mizery tho... Orange : simple, getting coached/copiloted is easier. Mizery does seem a bit lazy like me in that aspect, but I'm too much of a paranoid fuck to actually let anyone do the copiloting. pink is just MM being scum lol -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1213] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 19th, 2023 04:24 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I've only read the last paragraph ftr, the fact that there's so much I dislike about it already makes me think I should review it whole -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1214] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 19th, 2023 04:26 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I should've paid more attention, I feel like t!MM doesn't make excuses for people nearly as much as s!MM but I'm not actually certain this feeling is accurate -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1215] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 04:34 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb can you talk to me about your read on Miz please? Feel free to talk about your read on me if you'd like to, I'm more familiar with that one though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1216] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 04:36 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Green : it WOULD reveal something on s!mizery tho... Orange : simple, getting coached/copiloted is easier. Mizery does seem a bit lazy like me in that aspect, but I'm too much of a paranoid fuck to actually let anyone do the copiloting. pink is just MM being scum lol Can you explain the pink please? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1217] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 04:39 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ftr I an willing to answer questions about my main account if it helps people who don't know me solve me more easily. Don't want to see any excuses later saying that you couldn't ask me stuff. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1218] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 05:25 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff deathworlds how would you self describe your wolf game? Are you stronger as one alignment than the other? Also what account were you using in the anon wolf game you linked me please. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1219] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 05:33 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff hey y'all sorry for being awol as fuck. been sick and resting. So starting with my night results: I investigated Marshmallow and found he was a citizen. Here's a wall talking about what I think was going through my medicine addled brain on day Vittae So I started off the game as I would pretty much any other game, with some setup speculation. I love setup speculation, some here know me for my crazy setups and games that I've hosted here before, chief among them, Insanity. I'm obsessed with hosting and setup balance, it's fascinating, and it's incredibly satisfying to come up with something clever and unique, and to have my players enjoy the games I host. So that bleeds over a lot into how I play the game. Mech talk is generally seen as NAI, and I agree, some would even say it doesn't help town, or it hinders town *cough* MM *cough*, but I will never not talk about setup speculation and balance. After some nothing talk about how long it's been and catching up with some pals, I pointed out ikar making a deal about mizery claiming town at the very start of the game. This is something I really see as a nothingburger, and I really don't get why people say that, what does town claiming accomplish in a setup like this with only two opposing factions? Like, are they trying to project that they're town? People should just assume people are town until proven otherwise or suspicion sets in, focus your brain juice on people that are acting sus. Reevaluate periodically. Bah I'm going on a tangent here, but really, in the moment I think I was just annoyed. then I pointed out that we can only pull off one mislynch, in the moment I was just trying to make sure people are aware of this fact, low number setup, not something I play very often. I then argued with MM regarding setup speculation, which is something I touched on in a previous paragraph, I argued that RVS is just as useful as setup speculation. Here is more annoyance, but otherwise nothing really interesting. Then we have some arguements about what is a useful role and what isn't, a bit of throwbacks to previous games I played and hosted, some mech talk, nothing really interesting. I then told everyone to leave a last will, I didn't think about the tailor at this time, but I still find it dissapointing that varcron didn't listen to my white bold text, next time I'll use size 5 or something idk. left my investigator crumb. This is something I tend to do spur of the moment, I figured if I were to leave a crumb of my role at all, this would be a great time to do it in a natural and subtle way. There wasn't really any planning done here at all, other than leaving a tool for me to use later in case people didn't believe my claim later. Ah the "funny varcron WIFOM" comment, this is something that still leaves doubt in my mind about what varcron is, it was here that I thought in the moment, that "varcron is a citizen, and he's trying to trick scum into thinking he's a powerful TPR by softing a shitty TPR" which is actually probably out of character for varcron but that's what I thought in the moment. I did not think varcron was being honest here. Then later I do some reminiscing then tell people I'm going to medicate myself then go to bed. After I get up I provide some games for vittae that I played. then I have the big wall post. I'd love to do a play-by-play on all the comments I did in the giant wall I did on D1, but most of those are saying exactly what I was thinking in the moment, so I'll only point out the ones that might be different. One thing to note is that I commented a lot on mizery's posts, which is probably because her posts stuck out the most to me when I was creating that quote/reply wall. Another thing to note is that I don't think loldebite ever replied to my question in my giant wall post on day 1, which annoys me but is expected from scum. I questioned my position on vittae's read list (null) at the time, since there was a lot of points made for me that seemed to be town indicator to me, specifically the mind-melding, which, if two people are agreeing with eachother and from your own town!perspective, people that agree with you tend to share the same alignment/situation. Express even more doubt regarding varcron's claim, then I have my reads list. Which I say is all accurate to what I thought at the time of posting. I should have prefaced this, but I don't do a whole lot of "fronting" with my posts, I don't really have an overall "plan" throughout the day, and I don't think I change how I speak specifically in regards to what role I receive. Like, I might change my overall activity level and when I make specific claims, but I tend to just say what I think. Might not be the most optimal thing to do, but that's just how I talk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Continuing on, I then continue to express some frustration, specifically with people not responding to my wall post (seriously, how does that happen?) I share my thoughts regarding PoD in response to vittae. I did an iso on pod, which I forgot I did later in the day ngl. then I did an iso on mizery, in which I concluded that she was goofy af. then I did half of an iso on MM, in which I concluded that I kinda liked the guy. ah then I got CFD'd right before my meeting, of which I was very, very, frustrated and annoyed about. Since I knew I wouldn't be available near the EoD. I have a bad history of being mislynched on day one, and I was just genuinely frustrated. Then I hopped back on after my meeting (on mobile) and self pres voted on PoD, this is when panic mode was sinking in, then I just panicked until end of day, I made my claim right near the end of day, and was face palming an hour or so after I hard claimed my role. that was all that happened on day 1 from my point of view. Interested in how you were trying to read Mizery. What was your actual read on her alignment besides "goofy"? Why did you focus on her being goofy instead of her alignment? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1220] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 19th, 2023 05:34 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Can you explain the pink please? Sure so it might have been more of a dissociation from a mislynch than anything else Making excuses on someone else's behalf, as I said in the following post, I know for a fact that s!MM does this. It might not actually be as AI as I think it is, because I'm not sure he doesn't do it as town. I'm not so sure about this Spreading doubt on a basis that looks really thin to me, invest cop is info which is info which is important. meaning the investigator's results wouldn't even matter Same issue which is basically what is happening at the moment, for the record This is MM saying I'm scum without him saying I'm scum, AND it's a twisted recounting of events, completely ignoring EoD 1. That is just indicative of scum More doubt spreading through quite the oversimplification. I mean I get that mizery's a good player, but not even considering the psychological stress of responsibility is still a bit doubtful. Admitedly, I'm reading this after you've told us that she in fact avoids responsibility for NK, which makes it probably look worse than it was. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1221] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 19th, 2023 05:37 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb can you talk to me about your read on Miz please? Feel free to talk about your read on me if you'd like to, I'm more familiar with that one though. Sure, what d'you wanna know ? The progression, where it stands, both, everything ? Ain't much to talk about, you're never the lynch today from my POV, if I start having doubts again we'll see, but you'd probably die before that. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1222] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 06:01 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Sure, what d'you wanna know ? The progression, where it stands, both, everything ? Ain't much to talk about, you're never the lynch today from my POV, if I start having doubts again we'll see, but you'd probably die before that. Specifically I want to know where it stands but if you could also answer for everything that'd be great. In generally if you could just splurge as much of your solving thoughts in the thread as possible please. If you're town then you should vomit every little thought into the thread and make it absolutely impossible for anybody to misvote you today. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1223] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 06:05 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'll keep driving this home. If you are a villager in the PoE and especially if you are a villager in Deb/DW then you should be trying your absolute hardest to make it impossible for you to be seen as mafia. The way to do that isn't by defending yourself or attacking others - it's by solving in the thread and splurging every thought in as much detail as possible. Go into excessive detail about everything. Make it impossible for anybody to think that you're anything but town. Do what mafia can't replicate. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1224] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 06:07 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff How does MM approach scumbuddies? Is he the type to come in and distance immediately at the start of D1? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1225] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 06:18 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Sure Making excuses on someone else's behalf, as I said in the following post, I know for a fact that s!MM does this. It might not actually be as AI as I think it is, because I'm not sure he doesn't do it as town. Spreading doubt on a basis that looks really thin to me, invest cop is info which is info which is important. Same issue This is MM saying I'm scum without him saying I'm scum, AND it's a twisted recounting of events, completely ignoring EoD 1. More doubt spreading through quite the oversimplification. I mean I get that mizery's a good player, but not even considering the psychological stress of responsibility is still a bit doubtful. Admitedly, I'm reading this after you've told us that she in fact avoids responsibility for NK, which makes it probably look worse than it was. For the last point about Miz's tied vote, something else I neglected to mention in MU meta. MU is pretty laid back when it comes to things like this. You'll get people tying wagons for the fun of it, lots of memeing and trolling and occasionally straight up gamethrowing, lots of off topic discussion, lots of thread spamming (if there's not an upper cap you can expect individual players in competitive-ish scenarios to post upwards of 500 times a day phase). That's barely scratching the surface and not all relevant right now but the whole lax mentality in general and especially about letting things go to RNG is something that's probably notable to mention (which is part of why I didn't immediately think that Miz letting it rand was outing in a vacuum even if it was a confusing play to me within context even with my MU meta knowledge). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1226] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 19th, 2023 07:31 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Specifically I want to know where it stands but if you could also answer for everything that'd be great. In generally if you could just splurge as much of your solving thoughts in the thread as possible please. If you're town then you should vomit every little thought into the thread and make it absolutely impossible for anybody to misvote you today. Fair point. Historically I've had trouble reading mizery, so I had her as completely NULL/question mark for the vast majority of D1, as EoD approched I got confident she was town but the rand made me doubt it. At the start of D2 I was suspicious of her as a result and her firsts reactions didn't seem very towny to me to the point where I thought she was scum at one point, but that de-escalated quickly and I'm now quite confident that she's town, partly because I'm confident in your hability to read her, that you had her as town, and that I'm extremely confident you're town yourself. Yeah, makes sense. I haven't taken nearly as much notes as I wish I had because I got lazy. OH I JUST REMEMBERED THAT I PLAYED AN ACTUAL SCUM GAME ONCE, found out when reviewing FM notes. It was a very weird & bastard setup with 5 neutrals and no proper mafia team, and everyone that died had a 1 shot use of a gun that could : - convert target to neutral ; - kill target ; - resurect you somehow I don't recall how exactly ; - do nothing. The resurection mech was incredibly awful to play with and I think pretty much everyone quickly lost interest. I'd link you to the game, but it was the first game played of deckmafia.games but the site is discontinued and AFAIK the games there are forever gone. Kinda doubt the game would've been interesting to look at, anyway, it really was a painful game. At one point I posted that (I wrote it down beforehands because I was at a point where I really didn't care about what'd happen much) : "This game is a fucking nightmare, I would never have envisioned that the resurrection mechanic would be that much of a pain in the ass. It feels like we're making no progress, at all. Oh, and then you remember that resurrection doesn't conserve alignment so you realize that we're actually making negative progress. Pretty sure 3Ps have better odds of winning than town, now, so just shoot me. Actually, you know what, just shoot me." -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1227] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 07:40 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Damn, the Deck Mafia site is down? Somehow that news never got to me. Although tbf that's partially because I had no interest in DM myself. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1228] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 19th, 2023 07:43 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Damn, the Deck Mafia site is down? Somehow that news never got to me. Although tbf that's partially because I had no interest in DM myself. Apparently died last december... NGL that was my first DM ever and it's most certainly the last -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1229] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 07:55 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Thanks for the response Deb. Ignoring my take on Miz (which is probably less confident than you're assuming - I'm not a historically great Miz reader), what do you feel about her so far? Thoughts on her EoD1 in particular? That's by far the strongest thing I have on her being town rn but I want more opinions on it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1230] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 08:04 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I personally think that MM has posted well and had several micro towny moments. He also gave by far the best responses yesterday to my D1 thoughts question although tbf that was partially an issue of communication on my end I think and not making it clear what I wanted people to post. Still, I felt like what he was saying was logically consistent and I could completely believe how he came to his stances and opinions even if I didn't necessarily agree. Theres just nothing there that screams "this is always a villager" to me in the way that Miz's EoD1 possibly does and that's why I've been focusing on her over MM so far. It's also just a lot easier to try to solve a player I know well and have been in games with as both alignments (Miz) than one I barely know at all (MM). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1231] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 08:06 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Marshmallow Marshall What have you done this game that you either couldn't replicate as scum or that you wouldn't ever attempt to do as scum (as it would be bad play)? You can assume that your scum partner is one of Death or Deb for answering this. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1232] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 08:35 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Vote order is something we need to discuss: The first two players to vote should crossvote each other. The game is over in a mafia victory is both players are town. This cross should almost always be Death/Deb on the basis of them mechanically and socially almost always containing at least 1 mafia. From that point voting should be done in order of consensus most likely mafia to consensus least likely mafia. This shouldn't be done last minute. As votes are cast, new info is revealed that may need time to be discussed and leaving it to the last minute risks town players possibly not bothering to vote at all which is a frustratingly common occurrence. Also, once you cast your vote you should treat it as locked in (unless you take it back extremely quickly but be aware that misvoting at all can let the scum team quickly hammer and win). There is no town benefit to switching your votes once they're cast and you simply need to vote a villager once to immediately lose. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1233] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 08:41 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb and Death should obviously be the first votes unless there's a good reason to believe that they shouldn't be the cross today. I'm not sure who I'd like to vote third out of Miz and MM yet. I'd obviously like to vote last. If we all can't agree on a voting order we can always all submit our preferred order and average it out to decide. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1234] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 19th, 2023 08:55 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I guess I should want DW & MM to vote ASAP ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1235] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 19th, 2023 08:55 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Haven't really thought about it tbh -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1236] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 19th, 2023 09:13 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Thanks for the response Deb. Ignoring my take on Miz (which is probably less confident than you're assuming - I'm not a historically great Miz reader), what do you feel about her so far? Thoughts on her EoD1 in particular? That's by far the strongest thing I have on her being town rn but I want more opinions on it. I don't recall how many games I've been in with mizery exactly, but in the one I remember best she was scum, and she was nowhere NEAR tryharding as much as she seemed to be near EoD 1. She was in president too but I have a hard time remembering everything james madison did from a "that's mizery" perspective and tbh I cba reviewing the entire game solely for that purpose. Did I already mention that pod townreading me sounds like tmi but like badly because no one else is townreading me or was that someone else Actual active solving What Intel do you find from a pod v flip more solvy probing Did I already mention that pod townreading me sounds like tmi but like badly because no one else is townreading me or was that someone else Vittae switching so comfortably onto me after confidently saying I'm a townread with better meta and familiarity with me is a bad look btw just for you all when I die He sees I'm more of a ML this game and so calls me fourth in his "poe" of 3 that he thinks has one wolf That looks a bit like AtE but I think it fits mizery's character and it's still solving. Oh no I had votes on me I'm so pressured oh no what am I going to do Most probably NAI because again it fits her character IMO but I want to think it's especially genuine Wolfy throw ate Calling DW out for the throw AtE Vittae guide me Kinda reminds me of how mizery acts when she's in a game with lumi, which I think is good looks ? I'm overall not very confident in the read if I ignore your take on it, ngl. I've had terribly inaccurate reads on mizery AFAIK -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1237] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 09:18 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Regardless of if he is voting first or not, we should plan the votes so that deathworlds always casts his vote when he shows up today. We can't afford to all be sitting around waiting for him to can't the first vote if he won't show up again after that until just before EoD, if at all. Also puts less pressure on him since he's sick which I totally get. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1238] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 09:52 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I don't recall how many games I've been in with mizery exactly, but in the one I remember best she was scum, and she was nowhere NEAR tryharding as much as she seemed to be near EoD 1. She was in president too but I have a hard time remembering everything james madison did from a "that's mizery" perspective and tbh I cba reviewing the entire game solely for that purpose. You're correct in that I have also never seen Miz try like EoD1 as scum. She seems to be pretty content to just blend in usually. Although tbf her town game was very similar for a long time as well and I'm not confident if it's an overall playstyle/ improvement thing or a town indicative thing now. Actual active solving Do you think active solving is something that is difficult for Miz to fake though? That looks a bit like AtE but I think it fits mizery's character and it's still solving. The shade on me is very mildly towny. Scum!Miz certain wants to try to pocket me as much as possible in this game. Most probably NAI because again it fits her character IMO but I want to think it's especially genuine The snarkiness is more of a town AI thing for her to my understanding. Kinda reminds me of how mizery acts when she's in a game with lumi, which I think is good looks ? Mostly NAI I'm guessing but I find this pretty amusing . I'm overall not very confident in the read if I ignore your take on it, ngl. I've had terribly inaccurate reads on mizery AFAIK Yeah, if you basically look at what I've written the best I have outside the obvious thing is a lot of low-level meta reasons that suggest that she's in her town game. My general rule of thumb is to mostly discard low-level meta reasons on people in lylo / late game (I have some on MM as well so obviously some are wrong), they can easily be skewed by perspective / biased, puck up things that either aren't AI or can be replicated with mild improvement and are often just pretty =rand accurate when applied. What about her EoD1? Do you think she's likely to actively let it rand if Death is her partner and just claimed investigator? Important context is that she was the second vote on the Death wagon at the point where the only wagon with >1 vote was Miz herself and that the whole Miz/Death w/w thing had just happened in the thread. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1239] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 19th, 2023 09:55 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff vittae why are you still pretending that mm can be a wolf with a partneer who isnt death -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1240] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 10:01 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff vittae why are you still pretending that mm can be a wolf with a partneer who isnt death Did we not go through this multiple times? There is a very likely mafia Redirector or Bartender in the setup. Either of those invalidate Death's results. Unless you're saying I'm wrong here but you seemed to agree with me after the second time I told you this. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1241] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 10:02 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Did we not go through this multiple times? There is a very likely mafia Redirector or Bartender in the setup. Either of those invalidate Death's results. Unless you're saying I'm wrong here but you seemed to agree with me after the second time I told you this. The Operator is a Redirector basically. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1242] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 10:04 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Or are you saying they're unaligned for non-mech reasons? If so please tell me because that's incredibly important if you think there's a strong social unalign there. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1243] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 10:07 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Please, Miz I've tried really hard to try to get a read on your alignment and you've ignored all my questions since SoD2. Then you come in D3 and just repeatedly ask me the same question while still ignoring my questions to you. What are you doing? I was really excited to play with you this game but it's harder to work with you than it us with the player who's only available to post in the thread while I'm asleep. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1244] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 10:32 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff On the topic of Death's scans. N1 - Deb, Tailor N2 - MM, Cit Assuming Death is town: We know for a fact thanks to ikarus that MM was not targeted by a mafia coach driver on N2. This is possible to have happened on N1 with Deb but unlikely and basically just turns out the same way as an operator would. In both cases there is a possible Operator, Bartender or Coward (I forgot this one but it's very unlikely Deb is a Coward and targeted their Tailor scum partner so in this case MM would be the Coward). Tailor (Deb) + Any Role (Miz) Tailor (Deb) + Coward (MM) Tailor (Any Scum) + Operator/Coach Driver (Any Scum) Any (Any Scum) + Bartender (Any Scum) I think this is what it's narrowed down to in terms of scum roles in a town-Death world? So basically scum would need to have either a Bartender, a Tailor + Operator/Coach) combo or Deb to just be a Tailor (and MM a Coward if he's the partner). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1245] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 19th, 2023 10:32 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Please, Miz I've tried really hard to try to get a read on your alignment and you've ignored all my questions since SoD2. Then you come in D3 and just repeatedly ask me the same question while still ignoring my questions to you. What are you doing? I was really excited to play with you this game but it's harder to work with you than it us with the player who's only available to post in the thread while I'm asleep. I don't have a lot of free time and I know you shouldn't either, So I don't know why you keep asking me the same questions over again that I've already answered. It's a waste of both of our times. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1246] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 19th, 2023 10:33 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Especially with how much I've talked about things you should know i don't fully commit to mafia games ever and expecting me to do so just because you're in the game even tho i have little time as always is silly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1247] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 10:46 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I don't have a lot of free time and I know you shouldn't either, So I don't know why you keep asking me the same questions over again that I've already answered. It's a waste of both of our times. Just point me towards where you answered the questions then. I'm not asking a lot from you, I basically just want yo know about your EoD1. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1248] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 10:49 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Especially with how much I've talked about things you should know i don't fully commit to mafia games ever and expecting me to do so just because you're in the game even tho i have little time as always is silly I was hoping that you wouldn't ignore me completely after D1, yes. I'm not asking you for a lot and I'm not asking for you to put alot of time in. I'm just asking for you to not explicitly ignore me. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1249] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 19th, 2023 10:56 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff You're correct in that I have also never seen Miz try like EoD1 as scum. She seems to be pretty content to just blend in usually. Although tbf her town game was very similar for a long time as well and I'm not confident if it's an overall playstyle/ improvement thing or a town indicative thing now. Do you think active solving is something that is difficult for Miz to fake though? Difficult, probably not, but would she bother ? I don't think so. I think we're both lazy like that. What about her EoD1? Do you think she's likely to actively let it rand if Death is her partner and just claimed investigator? Important context is that she was the second vote on the Death wagon at the point where the only wagon with >1 vote was Miz herself and that the whole Miz/Death w/w thing had just happened in the thread. I'll be honest : I have absolutely no fucking idea. I don't think it's likely but... /shrug -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1250] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 02:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I don't have a tonne to add until people start showing up. Death/Deb > MM > Miz > Vittae is my current preferred voting order. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1251] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 02:28 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If other people could give input on their preferred voting orders then that would be great. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1252] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 19th, 2023 03:42 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I have explained my eod1 multiple times to multiple people and I'm tired of people not reading my posts and asking me to explain it over and over again especially because there isn't a big explanation and it's not like ot takes a while to read it Death claimed pr I had v read on pod Therefore I vote neither and leave it up to someone else to do something -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1253] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 19th, 2023 03:42 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff It's so hard to not wolfread you vittae it really is -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1254] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 19th, 2023 03:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Debbie and Deathworlds should be voting first, since we are very, very likely to lynch between them today. Then it's definetly Mizery voting next in my book. I don't mind voting before Vittae, considering that if they are scum, we have literally lost the game lol. So Debbie/Deathworlds -> Mizery -> MM -> Vittae -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1255] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 19th, 2023 03:49 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Sry this game is just frustrating to me, sorry if I've been rude -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1256] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 19th, 2023 03:50 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I really have no idea how a tailor would play into this game because I don't think it's been used so far -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1257] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 19th, 2023 03:51 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm going to most likely vote death fyi -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1258] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 19th, 2023 03:51 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff It's so hard to not wolfread you vittae it really is Is the implication that it's hard to not scumread them because... they are questioning you? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1259] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 19th, 2023 03:52 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I wish I just put down my phone and let death die eod1 this game would be so much nicer if I did -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1260] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 19th, 2023 03:52 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Is the implication that it's hard to not scumread them because... they are questioning you? It's hard to not scumread them because of their approach of me -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1261] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 03:53 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I have explained my eod1 multiple times to multiple people and I'm tired of people not reading my posts and asking me to explain it over and over again especially because there isn't a big explanation and it's not like ot takes a while to read it Death claimed pr I had v read on pod Therefore I vote neither and leave it up to someone else to do something This is partially what I wanted to know. I'd ask further but I don't think engaging with you is going to be useful this game. Every time you've gotten annoyed at people for not reading your posts, I've looked back and it's been some ambiguously worded throwaway line that's been skipped over in favour of more important stuff (or in some cases you explain something and it's just not sufficient to be understood). Nobody is maliciously ignoring what you're saying here or at least I certainly aren't and you've given me enough shit for this already. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1262] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 03:59 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Sry this game is just frustrating to me, sorry if I've been rude I'm not trying to be rude either but it feels like you're making things difficult out of spite but the issues with people not paying attention to you aren't really there. It's very obvious that this game is also frustrating me a lot. Feels like there's almost nothing substantial to solve and it's LYLO. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1263] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 04:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I wish I just put down my phone and let death die eod1 this game would be so much nicer if I did I mean, depends on if he's town or not to if I'd agree. I'd feel very shitty if I was on him and he flipped town. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1264] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 04:02 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff It's hard to not scumread them because of their approach of me My approach to you is increasingly getting more frustrated as you ignore me while I try to confidently read your alignment so that I might have just one person alive that I can actually rep a solid read on compounded by the fact that I'm extremely frustrated with this game in general and am struggling to keep up this WIM but forced to since it doesn't feel like we have any shot if I don't. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1265] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 04:12 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm going to most likely vote death fyi Do you not think that I'm unlikely to be partners with Death though? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1266] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 04:25 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff You have an hour or so before I have to leave. If you want me to be around to verify that there isn't a quickhammer from me after you vote then you'll probably be waiting 8+ hours for me to return unless you vote before them. Not sure anybody will actually be wanting to vote before then but wanted to make you all aware. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1267] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 05:25 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Will be leaving now. Please make sure that Death/Deb crossvote ASAP, don't want to be waiting for them at the last minute tomorrow and want enough time to think things through after votes are cast. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1268] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 19th, 2023 05:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I mean, depends on if he's town or not to if I'd agree. I'd feel very shitty if I was on him and he flipped town. But you were on him -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1269] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 19th, 2023 05:47 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff But you were on him Yeah. I'd have felt pretty shitty in that case as I'd have kept my vote on a town PR and got them miselimned (I was intending to swap away but ran out of time). Ok I'm actually leaving now. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1270] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 19th, 2023 07:09 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Loldebite Saw your mentions Vittae As for the not attacking each other thing, I totally get it, I call for the same thing whenever we get 1v1s The scum games I played anon were S-FM 399 (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49755-S-FM-339-KRC-M-FM-edition) and S-FM 307 (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/47427-S-FM-307-KRC-AGAIN!) where I was a scummy neutral and a mafia respectively. I was CBI Agent and ZKL3DJ respectively. I think I find myself to be overall stronger as town, I speak type without thinking about what I'm actually saying a lot so I don't have to filter myself as much compared to if I was scum. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1271] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 19th, 2023 07:37 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm a little overrun by real life existing, so I won't be there for a while because it's legit impossible - but around 2 hours before EOD, I should be able to come and can reasonably expect to stay until EOD. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1272] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 19th, 2023 11:34 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff so loldebite is scum, who is his partner. loldebite/mizery loldebite/mm loldebite/vittae better to start with speculation of the scum team. Scum has a tailor, that's a fact, there's no mechanical reason that a tailor would not appear. I'm going to run off of the assumption that Varcron was at least telling the truth about being TPR. Deathworlds invest ikarusdk flip chemist (likely not tailored) Loldebite claims snitch appears as tailor Marshmallow Marshall -claim cit, appear as cit Mizery claims cit powerofdeath flipped cit (not tailored) Varcron flipped chemist (likely tailored) Vittae claims cit Role list is this Patriots Hidden Patriot - Invest (me) Hidden Patriot - Chemist? (Varcron) Hidden Patriot - Bartender (Ikar) Citizen Citizen Citizen Loyalists Hidden Loyalist - Tailor Hidden Loyalist - ???? What is the 2nd scum? Assuming no one has lied about their feedback and fullclaimed all their feedback, we can cross out the following possibilities. Using these roles in some form or another would likely be optimal, to not use them would be so unlikely I'd consider it impossible. Chemist Electromaniac Stagecoach Janitor Operator These roles all leave very visible feedback, and as we haven't received any feedback from them, it's safe to assume they're not here. That leaves these roles Blacksmith Physician Tracker Scout Investigator Bartender Coward Tailor Blacksmith would have been able to use a gun and win the game at this point, they don't exist here. Physician Tracker Scout Investigator Bartender Coward Tailor Two tailors would be funny, but we have been given no reason to believe that both ikar and varcron have been tailored. Assuming a world where ikar was indeed scum (I find this so unlikely based on my d1 read of them), would it make any amount of sense to tailor your scum buddy? It could end up confusing town and making us act cautious for the next day, but the trick would be figured out once we passed the fake LYLO today. Wait I actually realized this is impossible as fuck since ikar died at night, zero shot that scum killed their own buddy, that's throwing. I'm disregarding a 2nd tailor, since scum doesn't really have the amount of mislynches to really utilize tailor to its fullest, anyone that scum kills at night is town, and town only has one mislynch available. Physician Tracker Scout Investigator Bartender Coward There's been no cases of contradictory feedback so far (with the exception of ikar targeting MM), so I'm discounting bartender. Physician Tracker Scout Investigator Coward Scout is significantly weaker in the hands of mafia compared to the other options, mafia know who they are going to visit, all lookout accomplishes is having a chance on figuring out who a TPR is, but predicting that isn't the easiest thing in the world, and is weaker compared to either investigator (straight up tells them the role), or tracker (lets them discover if that target is a TPR) Physician Tracker Investigator Coward scum sided doctor is such a foreign idea to me that it hardly computes, assuming varcrons flip is accurate, does the doctor even prevent the chemist from killing? By the wording of the feedback given and the wording of the role (preventing an attack) compared to chemists (poison a player) and the timing, it just doesn't work. Tracker Investigator Coward I think the last scum is any of these three. Now as for who they could be. There's a chance that loldebite is actually a coward, who hid onto varcron, and killed him in the same night, but from a scum perspective, what does this accomplish? In what world does the coward hide onto their mafia buddy? I can't imagine a scenario right now where that would be benefitial, presumably, the coward would hide to avoid investigation, or negative effects. You don't want your buddy to be investigated, and you sure as shit don't want them to be poisoned or bartended or just night killed. No, loldebite is exactly the tailor, there's no other option. so either MM Mizery Vittae are one of those three possible scum roles. Loldebite/MM Loldebite/Mizery Loldebite/Vittae I scanned MM as citizen, it's possible he is a coward and hid onto either mizery or vittae to appear as citizen. I had a scum lean on mizery on day 1. I had a strong town lean on vittae on day 1. If I had to wager, it would be between MM and Mizery (also if vittae is scum then G frickin G) If MM or Mizery are investigator or tracker, then my scan on MM was true and accurate. If MM was exactly coward, then it is possible that my scan on MM was faked by him targeting mizery or vittae. Coward only has two charges, in the world where MM was coward, one would have to have been used last night. What are the odds that Coward!MM has any charges left? If I was scum, I'd like to use one of my two charges on night 1 to avoid any potential "random" negative effects in a setup this small and this short. If I scan MM again tonight, there is a very high likelihood I can prove he is citizen or coward by comparing night results. If Mizery is coward or investigator/tracker, then there is nothing she could have done to interfere with my night results, so once again, it can be likely proved by just scanning MM again. But why wouldn't scum have investigative? I still pretty firmly believe that scum has an investigative role and a non-janitor disruptive role, and I was at least proven half right with a tailor scan. It's likely Loldebite/Mizery or Loldebite/MM, and loldebite/MM can only happen if MM is exactly coward, and if there is no scum aligned investigative role, which is so unlikely. I'd wager on Loldebite/Mizery -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1273] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:49 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Busy rn but confirming I have seen the vote and do not intend to quickhammer. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1274] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 01:18 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff acknoledged -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1275] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:27 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Loldebite Saw your mentions Vittae As for the not attacking each other thing, I totally get it, I call for the same thing whenever we get 1v1s The scum games I played anon were S-FM 399 (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49755-S-FM-339-KRC-M-FM-edition) and S-FM 307 (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/47427-S-FM-307-KRC-AGAIN!) where I was a scummy neutral and a mafia respectively. I was CBI Agent and ZKL3DJ respectively. I think I find myself to be overall stronger as town, I speak type without thinking about what I'm actually saying a lot so I don't have to filter myself as much compared to if I was scum. Good stuff, ty. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1276] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:32 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff WAIT OPERATORS GIVE FEEDBACK? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1277] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:32 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Lmao ok I'm just going to read the setup again. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1278] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:37 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ok so it's impossible for Death to be town and redirected. So the options are Death's scans are true, one of the Mafia is a coward or one if the mafia is a Bartender then? Obv assuming he's town. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1279] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:41 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb (Tailor) + Miz (Any) Deb (Tailor) + MM (Coward) Deb (Any) + MM/Miz (Bartender) Assuming Death is Town. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1280] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:51 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff so loldebite is scum, who is his partner. loldebite/mizery loldebite/mm loldebite/vittae better to start with speculation of the scum team. Scum has a tailor, that's a fact, there's no mechanical reason that a tailor would not appear. I'm going to run off of the assumption that Varcron was at least telling the truth about being TPR. Deathworlds invest ikarusdk flip chemist (likely not tailored) Loldebite claims snitch appears as tailor Marshmallow Marshall -claim cit, appear as cit Mizery claims cit powerofdeath flipped cit (not tailored) Varcron flipped chemist (likely tailored) Vittae claims cit Role list is this Patriots Hidden Patriot - Invest (me) Hidden Patriot - Chemist? (Varcron) Hidden Patriot - Bartender (Ikar) Citizen Citizen Citizen Loyalists Hidden Loyalist - Tailor Hidden Loyalist - ???? What is the 2nd scum? Assuming no one has lied about their feedback and fullclaimed all their feedback, we can cross out the following possibilities. Using these roles in some form or another would likely be optimal, to not use them would be so unlikely I'd consider it impossible. Chemist Electromaniac Stagecoach Janitor Operator These roles all leave very visible feedback, and as we haven't received any feedback from them, it's safe to assume they're not here. That leaves these roles Blacksmith Physician Tracker Scout Investigator Bartender Coward Tailor Blacksmith would have been able to use a gun and win the game at this point, they don't exist here. Physician Tracker Scout Investigator Bartender Coward Tailor Two tailors would be funny, but we have been given no reason to believe that both ikar and varcron have been tailored. Assuming a world where ikar was indeed scum (I find this so unlikely based on my d1 read of them), would it make any amount of sense to tailor your scum buddy? It could end up confusing town and making us act cautious for the next day, but the trick would be figured out once we passed the fake LYLO today. Wait I actually realized this is impossible as fuck since ikar died at night, zero shot that scum killed their own buddy, that's throwing. I'm disregarding a 2nd tailor, since scum doesn't really have the amount of mislynches to really utilize tailor to its fullest, anyone that scum kills at night is town, and town only has one mislynch available. Physician Tracker Scout Investigator Bartender Coward There's been no cases of contradictory feedback so far (with the exception of ikar targeting MM), so I'm discounting bartender. Physician Tracker Scout Investigator Coward Scout is significantly weaker in the hands of mafia compared to the other options, mafia know who they are going to visit, all lookout accomplishes is having a chance on figuring out who a TPR is, but predicting that isn't the easiest thing in the world, and is weaker compared to either investigator (straight up tells them the role), or tracker (lets them discover if that target is a TPR) Physician Tracker Investigator Coward scum sided doctor is such a foreign idea to me that it hardly computes, assuming varcrons flip is accurate, does the doctor even prevent the chemist from killing? By the wording of the feedback given and the wording of the role (preventing an attack) compared to chemists (poison a player) and the timing, it just doesn't work. Tracker Investigator Coward I think the last scum is any of these three. Now as for who they could be. There's a chance that loldebite is actually a coward, who hid onto varcron, and killed him in the same night, but from a scum perspective, what does this accomplish? In what world does the coward hide onto their mafia buddy? I can't imagine a scenario right now where that would be benefitial, presumably, the coward would hide to avoid investigation, or negative effects. You don't want your buddy to be investigated, and you sure as shit don't want them to be poisoned or bartended or just night killed. No, loldebite is exactly the tailor, there's no other option. so either MM Mizery Vittae are one of those three possible scum roles. Loldebite/MM Loldebite/Mizery Loldebite/Vittae I scanned MM as citizen, it's possible he is a coward and hid onto either mizery or vittae to appear as citizen. I had a scum lean on mizery on day 1. I had a strong town lean on vittae on day 1. If I had to wager, it would be between MM and Mizery (also if vittae is scum then G frickin G) If MM or Mizery are investigator or tracker, then my scan on MM was true and accurate. If MM was exactly coward, then it is possible that my scan on MM was faked by him targeting mizery or vittae. Coward only has two charges, in the world where MM was coward, one would have to have been used last night. What are the odds that Coward!MM has any charges left? If I was scum, I'd like to use one of my two charges on night 1 to avoid any potential "random" negative effects in a setup this small and this short. If I scan MM again tonight, there is a very high likelihood I can prove he is citizen or coward by comparing night results. If Mizery is coward or investigator/tracker, then there is nothing she could have done to interfere with my night results, so once again, it can be likely proved by just scanning MM again. But why wouldn't scum have investigative? I still pretty firmly believe that scum has an investigative role and a non-janitor disruptive role, and I was at least proven half right with a tailor scan. It's likely Loldebite/Mizery or Loldebite/MM, and loldebite/MM can only happen if MM is exactly coward, and if there is no scum aligned investigative role, which is so unlikely. I'd wager on Loldebite/Mizery "There's been no cases of contradictory feedback so far (with the exception of ikar targeting MM), so I'm discounting bartender." So you're very confident that your scans are correct here and not tampered with? If scum genuinely didn't have any way to interrupt your scans I'd be surprised that a hypothetical scum-Mizery would be happy to let you live over PoD. Not only would killing you set up an easy win (just wait for a villager to misvote PoD in lylo) but letting you get one-two actually correct scans and potentially make the game a lot easier to solve (by removing people you can be partners with) would surely be very risky. Can I ask you what you think scum-Miz was trying to accomplish there by unvoting? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1281] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:55 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb (Tailor) + Miz (Any) Deb (Tailor) + MM (Coward) Deb (Any) + MM/Miz (Bartender) Assuming Death is Town. Oh and Deb could be a coward and partners with Miz but I don't really believe this is likely. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1282] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:55 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Mizery why tf am I alive if you're town? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1283] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 02:03 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If the game is as easy as Death/MM then I have zero reason to be alive rn. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1284] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 02:49 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb: - Why were you so hesitant to vote during D1? There was a stretch of time where you had MM as highly likely scum but you never cast a vote there. During this stretch of time, you cast a vote on me, previously your townread, for making a perceived mistake and then went back to voting nobody. This is especially notable because I'm pretty sure your vote if you decided to use it could have actually lead to a viable MM wagon towards EoD. The only other time you voted was right at EoD1. You also don't seem to have this issue with not voting with your other town games. - Why have you been relying so strongly on associative reads this game? I think I asked this earlier but don't remember getting a good answer. This also doesn't seem to be typical behaviour for you. - What was going through your head in #476 and p#750? I've flagged these posts as they feel like very extreme/unrealistic reactions to the situations you were in. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1285] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 02:57 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm a little overrun by real life existing, so I won't be there for a while because it's legit impossible - but around 2 hours before EOD, I should be able to come and can reasonably expect to stay until EOD. Yeah dw I'm in a simar boat (I'm extremely busy outside of this game myself despite appearances). If there's stuff you want to talk with me about at EoD you'll be my priority. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1286] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 03:59 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb: - Why were you so hesitant to vote during D1? There was a stretch of time where you had MM as highly likely scum but you never cast a vote there. During this stretch of time, you cast a vote on me, previously your townread, for making a perceived mistake and then went back to voting nobody. This is especially notable because I'm pretty sure your vote if you decided to use it could have actually lead to a viable MM wagon towards EoD. The only other time you voted was right at EoD1. You also don't seem to have this issue with not voting with your other town games. I'm always hesitant to vote. As I said earlier, SoD2 IIRC, I do that a lot. I vote to push but as EoD gets closer I get increasingly conservative with my vote, and in this game I didn't know who to push. I find D1 pushes often are (very) clunky, I've seen people go pretty much "Nope, not claiming D1 I'd rather get mislynched fuck you" as town before so yeah unless I really have something in mind () I deem voting barely worth my time D1. - Why have you been relying so strongly on associative reads this game? I think I asked this earlier but don't remember getting a good answer. This also doesn't seem to be typical behaviour for you. I don't think I've been that focused on associations, it's just that I'm trying another approach on the game than I did in my last game (which was president IIRC ?), because in said game I've had very bad feelings about Washington but I couldn't pinpoint a specific (set of) reasons, I even considered using my vigi shot on them as if he was indeed scum we were pretty much goners if whoever else I shot was town. But I decided to trust common sense and go with something that seemed reasonable and justifiable, and I went on someone else's reads instead. And they were wrong. I'm not putting more emphasis on association, I'm putting less emphasis on "solid evidence" for scumreads, doing more of a global take that hopefully helps me find the little details that evade the conscious mind. I know that must be scary, pathetic and/or laughably ridiculous to read... - What was going through your head in #476 and p#750? I've flagged these posts as they feel like very extreme/unrealistic reactions to the situations you were in. #750 I thought you were going to tell us that you were poisoned, and at that point you were by very far my most confident town, both because of EoD 1 & because of DW's push on myself, with you very very probably not being scum with them. It would then mean that we actually were at LYLO already, with you garanteed to be gone for the next day, which obviously would've been terrible news. I really don't see what you see in #476, first two sentences is just me joking, first about Mizery actually calling me debbie I refuse to call them debbie second about MM saying I have paranoia : I'm curious to hear what Vittae thinks of the Debbie paranoia, actually, especially considering the last post is about them. Then I'm just legit surprised at mizery tying MM, I don't exactly recall why, but I think at that point in the game I was starting to feel better about mizery AND I had seen one post of MM that I really liked, so I think I was surprised because I didn't think either would get as many (2 each) votes as they did. And then I ask about a skip (again) because it really did seem like lynching would get us nowhere at the moment, AND because I thought skipping was better for me if not for town at the time (same "I want to scan (before I die)" mentality, even though it makes little sense here). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1287] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 04:01 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm always hesitant to vote. As I said earlier, SoD2 IIRC, I do that a lot. I vote to push but as EoD gets closer I get increasingly conservative with my vote, and in this game I didn't know who to push. I find D1 pushes often are (very) clunky, I've seen people go pretty much "Nope, not claiming D1 I'd rather get mislynched fuck you" as town before so yeah unless I really have something in mind (ie my push on you) I deem voting barely worth my time D1.. Lost that through a bad ctrl+z I assume... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1288] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 04:13 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I hate that I'm likely going to be the deciding vote today and then even if I'm right I'm fairly likely going to the the deciding vote on D4 as well. I'm more likely than not completely responsible if town loses and I hate that pressure. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1289] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 04:14 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Oh didn't see your responses Deb I'll get to those now. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1290] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 04:14 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I hate that I'm likely going to be the deciding vote today and then even if I'm right I'm fairly likely going to the the deciding vote on D4 as well. I'm more likely than not completely responsible if town loses and I hate that pressure. If that's an issue, just trust me bro :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1291] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 04:14 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff OH BTW I forgot to ask, shall I cast my vote now, since dw has cast his, or should I wait more ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1292] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 04:16 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If that's an issue, just trust me bro :D Shit you got me seriously wondering about ways to use dilution of responsibility in mafia lol -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1293] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 04:25 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff OH BTW I forgot to ask, shall I cast my vote now, since dw has cast his, or should I wait more ? You should cast it. The game would already be over if you and Death were both town as every player has checked into the thread since the vote and could have hammered. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1294] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 04:29 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb, who have your night action targets been so far and why? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1295] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 04:30 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Alright. We voting between me & DW, ain't we ? Deathworlds -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1296] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 04:32 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb, who have your night action targets been so far and why? n1, mizery because I wanted to clear her in case I died. I didn't see the point in confirming DW is invest as it wouldn't be completely incompatible with my flip, and mizery was the only one that had claimed citizen at the time. n2 I targeted MM, relying on the fact that I've advocated so strongly for getting confirmed town, and betting on the fact that if I was to die, he would be revealed as a NON citizen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1297] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 04:52 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm always hesitant to vote. As I said earlier, SoD2 IIRC, I do that a lot. I vote to push but as EoD gets closer I get increasingly conservative with my vote, and in this game I didn't know who to push. I find D1 pushes often are (very) clunky, I've seen people go pretty much "Nope, not claiming D1 I'd rather get mislynched fuck you" as town before so yeah unless I really have something in mind () I deem voting barely worth my time D1. You say you were increasingly conservative throughout the day but what about your early scumread on MM? You voted me after your scumread on MM and you unvoted and continued not to vote MM even afterwards despite maintaining the scumread there. Why was I, previously your townread, a worthy vote while you scumread MM but MM not a worthy vote at any time in thar timeframe including when you explicitly removed your vote from me and chose to put it on nobody instead of your clearly defined scumread at the time? I don't think I've been that focused on associations, it's just that I'm trying another approach on the game than I did in my last game (which was president IIRC ?), because in said game I've had very bad feelings about Washington but I couldn't pinpoint a specific (set of) reasons, I even considered using my vigi shot on them as if he was indeed scum we were pretty much goners if whoever else I shot was town. But I decided to trust common sense and go with something that seemed reasonable and justifiable, and I went on someone else's reads instead. And they were wrong. I'm not putting more emphasis on association, I'm putting less emphasis on "solid evidence" for scumreads, doing more of a global take that hopefully helps me find the little details that evade the conscious mind. I know that must be scary, pathetic and/or laughably ridiculous to read... I mean, your last will was solely associatives and mech iirc so you did lean into it pretty strongly on D1. Do you feel like you were having difficulty with solid evidence solving this game. Also ftr you aren't quite right the specifics but your head is in the right place with what you're saying about your strategy here (although based on your description you were right to vigi shoot into the consensus, non-consensus vigi shots are typically frowned upon). Basically you're trying to find a way to find deep wolves who the consensus believes are town? I can definitely understand that motivation and why you'd want to do that even if I think you're probably approaching it wrong. Are there other ways this change in strategy affected your play that haven't been immediately obvious? #750 I thought you were going to tell us that you were poisoned, and at that point you were by very far my most confident town, both because of EoD 1 & because of DW's push on myself, with you very very probably not being scum with them. It would then mean that we actually were at LYLO already, with you garanteed to be gone for the next day, which obviously would've been terrible news. Ok thank you, I misinterpreted this as a push on me. At the time I really didn't understand the post due to not realising poisons were not publicly announced in the thread. I really don't see what you see in #476, first two sentences is just me joking, first about Mizery actually calling me debbie second about MM saying I have paranoia : Then I'm just legit surprised at mizery tying MM, I don't exactly recall why, but I think at that point in the game I was starting to feel better about mizery AND I had seen one post of MM that I really liked, so I think I was surprised because I didn't think either would get as many (2 each) votes as they did. And then I ask about a skip (again) because it really did seem like lynching would get us nowhere at the moment, AND because I thought skipping was better for me if not for town at the time (same "I want to scan (before I die)" mentality, even though it makes little sense here). I was referring to the lines: Haha ! You called me Debbie! YOU WON'T POCKET ME THAT EASILY Yeah that was paranoie again Mostly the final line which suggested that Miz calling you Debbie had made you paranoid that she was mafia pocketing you which in context was very difficult to see as being a real thought that a villager would think. It read as a big fake performance that scum would think seemed villagery but no villager would actually ever post. If it's just a joke then ok, I obviously just misinterpreted it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1298] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 04:52 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Alright. We voting between me & DW, ain't we ? Deathworlds Yep -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1299] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 04:54 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff n1, mizery because I wanted to clear her in case I died. I didn't see the point in confirming DW is invest as it wouldn't be completely incompatible with my flip, and mizery was the only one that had claimed citizen at the time. n2 I targeted MM, relying on the fact that I've advocated so strongly for getting confirmed town, and betting on the fact that if I was to die, he would be revealed as a NON citizen I am pointing out for reference that this post was written in ~2 minutes which I believe is a pretty good look. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1300] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 04:56 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb I know you wrote a will and put thought into targeting MM but did you actually think it was likely that you'd die last night? Or was it just a precaution? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1301] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 04:58 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff You say you were increasingly conservative throughout the day but what about your early scumread on MM? You voted me after your scumread on MM and you unvoted and continued not to vote MM even afterwards despite maintaining the scumread there. I mean generally, I generally get increasingly conservative throughout the day. Just as I told you, I don't really see the point in D1 pushes, I think they're easily cast off as unjustified because they most often are, so I don't think the push in itself is anything remotely significant for anyone experienced enough - which almost all of you are. I voted you not to push you but because I saw it as a good way to provoke interesting and relevant discussion (which it did not), I didn't see why me voting MM would've so I simply did not vote. In retrospect I should've, I stood to loose nothing, after all. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1302] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 05:06 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I mean generally, I generally get increasingly conservative throughout the day. Just as I told you, I don't really see the point in D1 pushes, I think they're easily cast off as unjustified because they most often are, so I don't think the push in itself is anything remotely significant for anyone experienced enough - which almost all of you are. I voted you not to push you but because I saw it as a good way to provoke interesting and relevant discussion (which it did not), I didn't see why me voting MM would've so I simply did not vote. In retrospect I should've, I stood to loose nothing, after all. Ok I'm fine with this. You're right you should have voted (lots of votes and lots of movement generates a lot of discussion that we have totally lacked thus game due to the stagnant thread) but I understand why you weren't doing so. Mind if I ask you more about your D1 read on MM specifically and your interactions with him? In as much detail as you can, time-permitting, please. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1303] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 05:08 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I mean, your last will was solely associatives and mech iirc so you did lean into it pretty strongly on D1. Do you feel like you were having difficulty with solid evidence solving this game. Is there really such a thing as "solid evidences" ? NGL those seem very rare, maybe that's just because I'm garbage but I can always - or very close to it - find a way for whoever's on the other side to do what they are doing as town. Look at PQHack in Once Upon a Town, from my POV that HAD TO be scum, but apparently me & frinckles were the only ones to see it. And that dude was literaly in his first scum game ever, so it's not like he actually put real resistance either. If those "solid evidences" weren't enough for the likes of Gikkle, Auwt or jmw I don't think anything ever will be. Also ftr you aren't quite right the specifics but your head is in the right place with what you're saying about your strategy here (although based on your description you were right to vigi shoot into the consensus, non-consensus vigi shots are typically frowned upon). Basically you're trying to find a way to find deep wolves who the consensus believes are town? I can definitely understand that motivation and why you'd want to do that even if I think you're probably approaching it wrong. Are there other ways this change in strategy affected your play that haven't been immediately obvious? I don't think it really has, I still do the same shit I always did, only now I say more of what I kept down or convinced myself was rubbish. Idk, I do get paranoid I guess, since I basically threw Play at your own risk that way. Mostly the final line which suggested that Miz calling you Debbie had made you paranoid that she was mafia pocketing you which in context was very difficult to see as being a real thought that a villager would think. It read as a big fake performance that scum would think seemed villagery but no villager would actually ever post. If it's just a joke then ok, I obviously just misinterpreted it. Yeah it really was a mere joke about mizery calling me debbie despite saying she wouldn't and me pretending to get paranoid about it (it did cross my mind but I shrugged it off). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1304] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 05:10 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb I know you wrote a will and put thought into targeting MM but did you actually think it was likely that you'd die last night? Or was it just a precaution? No I considered it almost impossible lol -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1305] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 05:10 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Less than .1% -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1306] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 05:25 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Reading MM's most recent on site scum game and a quick skim suggests that he was very aggressive towards his partner (Renegade) and was bussing them as well as pretty frequently mentioning them. Pretty sure this was the game you were in Deb? Was this accurate to how MM played there with game context? Is MM typically a busser? (Open to anybody to answer) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1307] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 05:39 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Reading MM's most recent on site scum game and a quick skim suggests that he was very aggressive towards his partner (Renegade) and was bussing them as well as pretty frequently mentioning them. Pretty sure this was the game you were in Deb? Was this accurate to how MM played there with game context? Is MM typically a busser? (Open to anybody to answer) What game is that ? I recall playing a game with s!renegade but didn't recall that MM was scum as well in that one -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1308] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 05:41 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff What game is that ? I recall playing a game with s!renegade but didn't recall that MM was scum as well in that one The low post cap game. I think Frinckles misvoted you in lylo and MM won but I've been through so many games that I might be confusing them. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1309] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 05:42 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff The low post cap game. I think Frinckles misvoted you in lylo and MM won but I've been through so many games that I might be confusing them. Wow I have 0 memory of being misvoted by MM, lemme check -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1310] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 05:45 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff UGHHHHH oh yes, THAT game -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1311] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 05:48 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Is there really such a thing as "solid evidences" ? NGL those seem very rare, maybe that's just because I'm garbage but I can always - or very close to it - find a way for whoever's on the other side to do what they are doing as town. Look at PQHack in Once Upon a Town, from my POV that HAD TO be scum, but apparently me & frinckles were the only ones to see it. And that dude was literaly in his first scum game ever, so it's not like he actually put real resistance either. If those "solid evidences" weren't enough for the likes of Gikkle, Auwt or jmw I don't think anything ever will be. I totally understand your issue and highly recommend this article: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/23470-20-How-To-Put-Wolves-In-A-Box-%28by-Newcomb%29 While sometimes it is better to just snap find scum, it's not the only method available to your disposal and if you're struggling with that then this is a great way to circumvent it. It's often more accurate than just trying to vote out mafia the more direct / intuitive way (although less applicable in certain lobbies and situations). This is an understandable viewpoint to have for a fairly new player but I can at least assure you that it's pretty wrong once you get more experience. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1312] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 05:53 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Reading MM's most recent on site scum game and a quick skim suggests that he was very aggressive towards his partner (Renegade) and was bussing them as well as pretty frequently mentioning them. Pretty sure this was the game you were in Deb? Was this accurate to how MM played there with game context? Is MM typically a busser? (Open to anybody to answer) NGL I don't remember enough to tell you about it, but it looks like just about everyone considered it was bussing -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1313] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 05:54 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I totally understand your issue and highly recommend this article: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/23470-20-How-To-Put-Wolves-In-A-Box-%28by-Newcomb%29 While sometimes it is better to just snap find scum, it's not the only method available to your disposal and if you're struggling with that then this is a great way to circumvent it. It's often more accurate than just trying to vote out mafia the more direct / intuitive way (although less applicable in certain lobbies and situations). This is an understandable viewpoint to have for a fairly new player but I can at least assure you that it's pretty wrong once you get more experience. And yet they win games -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1314] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 05:54 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff But thanks I guess -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1315] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 06:01 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Wish I could vote you for looking me down without throwing smh -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1316] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 06:03 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Wish I could vote you for looking me down without throwing smh Looking you down? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1317] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 06:46 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm taking a break from this. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1318] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 07:12 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Looking you down? Just a joke on PoD's vote on me - if you read this PoD I'm sorry :(. I guess I should stop making these, uh -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1319] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 07:16 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Just a joke on PoD's vote on me - if you read this PoD I'm sorry :(. I guess I should stop making these, uh Ok that makes a lot more sense in context. Sorry if I came off as condescending, I didn't mean it in that way. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1320] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 07:17 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm so sick of this game though. Too much of a time sink and I'm getting nowhere. Will be back after a short break. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1321] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 07:28 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ok I'm fine with this. You're right you should have voted (lots of votes and lots of movement generates a lot of discussion that we have totally lacked thus game due to the stagnant thread) but I understand why you weren't doing so. Mind if I ask you more about your D1 read on MM specifically and your interactions with him? In as much detail as you can, time-permitting, please. I'm been procrastinating a response for hours now so I'll give you a quick & dirty tl;dr of the progression : Initially didn't like their initial post because the diss on DW felt gratuitous and undeserved. Then they took ika's argument for themselves and as I said in my self ISO post IIRC, that didn't feel genuine at all to me. I can understand ika not finding the flaw in his logic because he's so engulfed in it himself that he doesn't find it, but I don't believe someone being confronted to it from an exterior POV can genuinely miss the literal previous post saying I'm writing a big post as I spoke. So it felt like MM jumping on an occasion to spread doubt about myself, which is doubly convenient because I'm apparently quite frequently being read as scum when I'm town, so I s'pose getting me mislynched isn't hard. Then near EoD1 there was a post I really liked at the time that bumped MM back to null. He stayed there until ~midday of D2. Since then, he's done nothing to redeem himself in my eyes, there was one post that I liked when I first read him near EoD 1 but I don't see what I liked about it anymore so I think it was fluke or me desperately wanting to see something good from MM. I admittedly haven't read their self ISO tho. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1322] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 07:29 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Got a meeting in just about now, should be an hour or so. Sorry I didn't delve into more details but I didn't really see what you wanted from me tbh -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1323] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 07:31 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ok that makes a lot more sense in context. Sorry if I came off as condescending, I didn't mean it in that way. 'tis fine, but these joke-ish comments seem to do more harm than anything since they're mostly getting misinterpreted and thus, confusing. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1324] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 20th, 2023 08:19 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff "There's been no cases of contradictory feedback so far (with the exception of ikar targeting MM), so I'm discounting bartender." So you're very confident that your scans are correct here and not tampered with? If scum genuinely didn't have any way to interrupt your scans I'd be surprised that a hypothetical scum-Mizery would be happy to let you live over PoD. Not only would killing you set up an easy win (just wait for a villager to misvote PoD in lylo) but letting you get one-two actually correct scans and potentially make the game a lot easier to solve (by removing people you can be partners with) would surely be very risky. Can I ask you what you think scum-Miz was trying to accomplish there by unvoting? I'm pretty confident that my scans are accurate. Assuming a bartender has the ability to completely fake someone's feedback (I.E give fake feedback and remove feedback one would normally get), then they would have to both guess my intended target and give a reasonable scan as well, since my feedback gives both my intended target and their role. So, if I say, had to choose between either MM and Mizery for my night 2 scan, then scum would have a 50% shot of correctly guessing my intended target to give me believable feedback. My intended target hasn't changed, and banking on a 50/50 personally seems risky to me, so I'm assuming my feedback likely hasn't been tampered with by a bartender. If we exist in a world with a coward (something I find more likely than a scum aligned bartender at this point, but less so than Mizery being scum) then perhaps my scan on MM was fake, but that can probably be disproven tomorrow night. As for the Mizery unvote, it still baffles me. If Mizery was town, then leaving the vote to a 50/50 just doesn't make a lot of sense. If Mizery was scum, then she would be risking letting a full claim investigator live, and get two sets of untampered info. Like, I get I was a low hanging fruit on day 2, day 2 was probably my weakest day in a very long time, I honestly can't even remember a third of what happened on day 2 (something I have to rectify). But, banking on getting an easy mislynch on pod d1 then a (presumably) easy mislynch on me who was scum read by a bunch of people? Is that a winning strategy compared to lynching me, the fullclaim investigator on day 1, then pushing on the actual low hanging fruit (no offense PoD) day 2? I mean, I'm pretty sure you called it out on day 1, that if PoD survived the day, then scum would be likely trying to push him on day 2 for the easy win. Was scum playing around that? But then why not just kill you? The town leader? Why Varcron? WIFOM? fuck I don't know, I wish I was more present during this game :( -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1325] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 20th, 2023 08:28 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff we could exist in a scumBartender!Vittae world, assuming my tailor feedback was faked, he would have to have had guessed I would target loldebite, and that a tailor scan would be optimal. It's not if Vittae is scum buddies with Loldebite. And if Vittae was paired with mizery, they could've just ended the game. Assuming my MM feedback was faked, then selecting me basically just fumbles all my feedback for the night. But why pick citizen as the chosen role in the scenario where my intended target was my actual target? Why not pick something outrageous like electromancer to basically guarantee that my feedback was fumbled? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1326] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 20th, 2023 08:29 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Going through it, I doubt we have a scum bartender -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1327] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 08:31 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ok if the feedback has the scanned player's name in it then yeah there's no way there's a scum Bartender. I was leaning against it anyway tbh due to some inconsistencies but that obviously makes it impossible. Does that mean that it's not possible that MM is a coward and redirected it either deathworlds? Because if that's what you're saying then the Cit scan wouldn't show up under MM's name right? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1328] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 08:34 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff PEOPLE WERE ADAMANT A SECOND SCAN WOULD BE USELESS Lmao -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1329] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 08:38 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Got a meeting in just about now, should be an hour or so. Sorry I didn't delve into more details but I didn't really see what you wanted from me tbh Thanks. Basically just wanting to see if you could be w/w or anything in there thar is clearing because you're the pairing with the most in-thread unaligns rn imo but nothing solidifies it for me. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1330] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 08:40 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ok if the feedback has the scanned player's name in it then yeah there's no way there's a scum Bartender. I was leaning against it anyway tbh due to some inconsistencies but that obviously makes it impossible. Does that mean that it's not possible that MM is a coward and redirected it either deathworlds? Because if that's what you're saying then the Cit scan wouldn't show up under MM's name right? Just in case the wording is ambiguous: If I were a scum Bartender and you were town, I would need to know exactly that you were visiting Deb on N1 and MM on N2? I couldn't just send you a Tailor result on N1 and a Cit result on N2 and not need to guess the direct targets for your feedback? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1331] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 20th, 2023 08:42 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ok if the feedback has the scanned player's name in it then yeah there's no way there's a scum Bartender. I was leaning against it anyway tbh due to some inconsistencies but that obviously makes it impossible. Does that mean that it's not possible that MM is a coward and redirected it either deathworlds? Because if that's what you're saying then the Cit scan wouldn't show up under MM's name right? No, my scan shows intended target, not true target. So it's still possible that MM is coward. Bartender unlikelihood comes from them having to guess my intended target to make any fake feedback seem believable -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1332] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 20th, 2023 08:47 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I should note that my presence at EoD is going to be unlikely, since I'm scheduled to get off work right then, I'll have roughly 30 minutes to spare about 4 hours before EoD though -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1333] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 20th, 2023 08:49 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Just in case the wording is ambiguous: If I were a scum Bartender and you were town, I would need to know exactly that you were visiting Deb on N1 and MM on N2? I couldn't just send you a Tailor result on N1 and a Cit result on N2 and not need to guess the direct targets for your feedback? And to answer your question, yes, I'm pretty sure that is the case -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1334] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 08:51 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff As for the Mizery unvote, it still baffles me. If Mizery was town, then leaving the vote to a 50/50 just doesn't make a lot of sense. If Mizery was scum, then she would be risking letting a full claim investigator live, and get two sets of untampered info. Like, I get I was a low hanging fruit on day 2, day 2 was probably my weakest day in a very long time, I honestly can't even remember a third of what happened on day 2 (something I have to rectify). But, banking on getting an easy mislynch on pod d1 then a (presumably) easy mislynch on me who was scum read by a bunch of people? Is that a winning strategy compared to lynching me, the fullclaim investigator on day 1, then pushing on the actual low hanging fruit (no offense PoD) day 2? I mean, I'm pretty sure you called it out on day 1, that if PoD survived the day, then scum would be likely trying to push him on day 2 for the easy win. Was scum playing around that? But then why not just kill you? The town leader? Why Varcron? WIFOM? fuck I don't know, I wish I was more present during this game :( I feel like I can somewhat justify the Miz unvote as town. From her position, I can understand her feeling stuck between a rock and a hard place (can relate, was pretty hesitant to switch myself and it's why I ran out of time before I could) and her just refusing to commit as a result. I feel like there's still big question marks around that but it feels much more justifiable for her to have just been overwhelmed / conflicted enough to not vote and / or refuse to vote her townread out of principle than it would be to justify her letting you live as scum because the game for her would have been over if you flipped D1 and the team was Miz/Deb - there is almost no way that PoD survives lylo. It's worrying me because 1. I don't have other strong reasons to TR Miz and 2. I don't dislike MM's posting, in fact I probably like it more than Miz outside of this. So it's a pretty big sticking point for me rn. And again N2 - why didn't I die over ikarus if Miz is town? N1 I can maybe justify, N2 I really can't. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1335] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 08:57 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff No, my scan shows intended target, not true target. So it's still possible that MM is coward. Bartender unlikelihood comes from them having to guess my intended target to make any fake feedback seem believable I think both intended targets are fairly reasonable for guesses. The Tailor would be a great way to make you be in conflict with whoever you scan. The cit would be a good way to protect the final maf from being scanned. If I were a scum Bartender and you town, I'd have personally just have given you impossible roles every night to completely shut you down (eg Electromaniac or something). The play here if a Bartender does exist is weird so I've been leaning against the possibility personally. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1336] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 20th, 2023 09:00 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Could go back to BUCKETSTRAT You, miz, and MM were in the citizen bucket on night 2 Me, Loldebite, and Ikar were in the TPR bucket on night 2 Assuming one scum claims cit and one scum claims TPR then there's a wolf in each of those buckets. There's already a 1v1 in the TPR bucket, from an FM!perspective there's a wolf between me and loldebite. Killing anyone in the citizen bucket forces another 1v1, compared to killing ikar, which doesn't really affect the percentages of a wolf in any particular bucket. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1337] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 09:01 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I should note that my presence at EoD is going to be unlikely, since I'm scheduled to get off work right then, I'll have roughly 30 minutes to spare about 4 hours before EoD though If there's anything you can reasonably do to convince me that you're town, please do so. If there's anything I can reasonably do to find you if you're town, please tell me. I would very much like to not be personally responsible for our loss as is seeming to be all too realistic of a prospect rn. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1338] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 09:04 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Could go back to BUCKETSTRAT You, miz, and MM were in the citizen bucket on night 2 Me, Loldebite, and Ikar were in the TPR bucket on night 2 Assuming one scum claims cit and one scum claims TPR then there's a wolf in each of those buckets. There's already a 1v1 in the TPR bucket, from an FM!perspective there's a wolf between me and loldebite. Killing anyone in the citizen bucket forces another 1v1, compared to killing ikar, which doesn't really affect the percentages of a wolf in any particular bucket. True in theory but in practice the consensus was one in you/Deb + one in the other four I think? But it's possible that whoever did the nightkill saw the buckets differently to me and thought "I should keep all the citizen claims alive" yeah. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1339] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 20th, 2023 09:18 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If there's anything you can reasonably do to convince me that you're town, please do so. If there's anything I can reasonably do to find you if you're town, please tell me. I would very much like to not be personally responsible for our loss as is seeming to be all too realistic of a prospect rn. I just don't know if I can at this point. This game has pretty much boiled down to mechanics to me, combined with being sick and d2 being a -skip day I just couldn't be present enough to be able to be read properly. I don't know enough about my own meta and tells to be able to provide you with anything that would help. And since my play has been so infrequent as of late, my own thought processes and playstyle are likely different enough to make any meta reads null. I'm sorry, I sympathize with your position, I really do, I hate being at Lylo and being one of if not the deciding vote. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1340] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 20th, 2023 09:19 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If you did read through my ISOs in the games I provided I hope you at least enjoyed yourself -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1341] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 09:25 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Completely understandable yeah. Now if only I could read Deb for shit we'd be somewhere. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1342] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 10:50 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Holy shit a lot has happened I'll take a while to read - especially since there's stuff going on in here. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1343] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 10:52 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If MM is scum then his flip (Coward or not Coward) would fairly strongly imply which of Deb and Death were his partner (Death more likely partner if not coward due to Death's claimed scan, Deb more likely the partner if Coward as Death has the only role that a scum Coward could benefit from avoiding). In theory if I were confident im MM being mafia then it would be best to vote him first but in practice I'm not particularly confident in MM's alignment here even if I am still leaning towards him somewhat over Miz. Especially so because I'm not really sold on Deb/MM being the pair anyway. It just doesn't really click for me in terms of some or the interactions and both sides are approaching each other in the opposite way than to how I'd expect them to as scum partners. There's also the fringe possibility of a Deb/DW world and obviously from other people's perspectives my existence makes the whole thing suboptimal as well. So tl;dr while voting MM today is a possibility I am steering against it and would rather just vote in the pool of the one or more confirmed scum. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1344] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 10:56 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Tl;dr of Death's ISO - Occasionally small glints of towniness on a micro scale but mostly NAI mech posts. Has an early soft of investigator but a terrible last second claim. There's just not enough here it feels like to make a decision on this without knowing Death prior to this game. I know the mech stuff is NAI from his meta but when you take it out it's... basically just the way he approached his claim and nothing much more. Going to reread it now. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1345] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 10:59 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Tl;dr of Death's ISO - Occasionally small glints of towniness on a micro scale but mostly NAI mech posts. Has an early soft of investigator but a terrible last second claim. There's just not enough here it feels like to make a decision on this without knowing Death prior to this game. I know the mech stuff is NAI from his meta but when you take it out it's... basically just the way he approached his claim and nothing much more. Going to reread it now. Also the huge wtf moment where Death tells Varcron not to fire N1 as Chemist. I'm giving Death the benefit of the doubt here because maybe he didn't know better but this is basically mech openwolfing and if this is something Death should know better than to do please make me aware. At least we know why Varcron likely didn't poison now. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1346] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:12 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff PEOPLE WERE ADAMANT A SECOND SCAN WOULD BE USELESS Lmao And I'm pretty sure it was based on how this is going i jusut wish he scanned me you don't understand how much i wish he scanned me -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1347] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:14 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff And again N2 - why didn't I die over ikarus if Miz is town? . why is this a question? like, you asked this to me earlier and I don't even understand how you edxpect me to reply? ?? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1348] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 11:15 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff And I'm pretty sure it was based on how this is going i jusut wish he scanned me you don't understand how much i wish he scanned me I mean. It's more useful for looking at MM/Deb scumteam chances. It doesn't really affect my read on you overall. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1349] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:18 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff with only one flip for information we are basically stuck in between d1 and 2, playing lylo, and that's just incredibly frustrating -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1350] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:19 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I mean. It's more useful for looking at MM/Deb scumteam chances. It doesn't really affect my read on you overall. why didn't he scan me -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1351] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 11:20 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff why is this a question? like, you asked this to me earlier and I don't even understand how you edxpect me to reply? ?? I was / am pretty shocked by it and I'm just hoping anyone could give me an alternative answer to "scum are playing bad" or "Mizery scum". It's important for obvious reasons that I find out and re-eval immediately if I am vocally wrong and in a lylo situation. I feel somewhat more comfortable about the NK after the bucket conversation though ftr. That's the sort of answer I wanted. (I also really just wanted to talk to you about stuff tbh since you were around at the time and was hoping you'd talk if I asked about something unrelated to anything you'd posted about before). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1352] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 11:21 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff why didn't he scan me I have no idea, don't remember if he said or not. I personally would have scanned MM though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1353] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:23 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also the huge wtf moment where Death tells Varcron not to fire N1 as Chemist. I'm giving Death the benefit of the doubt here because maybe he didn't know better but this is basically mech openwolfing and if this is something Death should know better than to do please make me aware. At least we know why Varcron likely didn't poison now. varcron said his power was negative and would not beusing it at sod, before death interactions, after death had posted, but before death had said anything about not using the chemist. I'm going to throw out right now that my night action is not town-friendly, and I won't be using it unless it's absolutely mandatory for the town's survival. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1354] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 11:23 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff with only one flip for information we are basically stuck in between d1 and 2, playing lylo, and that's just incredibly frustrating This is why I was so annoyed at SoD2. We're playing a game where we have to use basically just D1 to get a perfect 2/2 where most players are barely doing anything AI and barely anyone seems to has a strong opinion on anything minus me. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1355] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:24 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I have no idea, don't remember if he said or not. I personally would have scanned MM though. I am his strongest wolfread and to say in his posts today that he would have been scanning between me and MM sounds strange considering i was a strong wolfread and MM was a strong townread if there's any "between these two" it should have been in between vittae and mm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1356] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:24 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also can you point out to me the posts you liked from MM -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1357] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 11:25 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff varcron said his power was negative and would not beusing it at sod, before death interactions, after death had posted, but before death had said anything about not using the chemist. Yes but there were further posts from others including me that said that the Chemist was a strong role actually to Varcron and Death's one bad mech post went under my radar initially. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1358] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 11:26 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I am his strongest wolfread and to say in his posts today that he would have been scanning between me and MM sounds strange considering i was a strong wolfread and MM was a strong townread if there's any "between these two" it should have been in between vittae and mm Wasn't I his strongest TR though? Also scanning me would be dumb as I was the most likely NK. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1359] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:27 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff This is why I was so annoyed at SoD2. We're playing a game where we have to use basically just D1 to get a perfect 2/2 where most players are barely doing anything AI and barely anyone seems to has a strong opinion on anything minus me. the thing is that chemist wouldn't have helped at all, since it flips at eod, and isn't announced. Also i don't get how you can have strong opinions on absolutely anything since my opinions are as strong as they can be right now -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1360] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:27 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Wasn't I his strongest TR though? Also scanning me would be dumb as I was the most likely NK. I personally thought ikarus was the strongest NK. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1361] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:28 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I completely assumed that you were only saying you were going to die to try and get scum to think alongside you that ikarus wouldn't be a good nk -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1362] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:29 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff then again i also thought you were softing a poison sod2 so really i have no idea what you're doing this game -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1363] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:30 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff And vittae this game was totally supposed to be an experimentation and attempt at not going so hard in a game for you, so.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1364] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:30 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Wasn't I his strongest TR though? Also scanning me would be dumb as I was the most likely NK. also my point is that it makes a lot more sense to decide between verifying two townreads then to decide between someone you think it likely town and someone you think is likely wolf -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1365] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 11:30 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also can you point out to me the posts you liked from MM I've already said them earlier, you should read my posts. Serious answer - yeah sure, give me a bit. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1366] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:31 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I've already said them earlier, you should read my posts. Serious answer - yeah sure, give me a bit. sorry im just a little baby i cant do anything -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1367] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:32 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I've already said them earlier, you should read my posts. Serious answer - yeah sure, give me a bit. I'm asking because i have read them all and there is nothing blaringly towny about them -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1368] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:32 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff there's times it gives me pause but at the same time if the partner isn't MM it's you, vittae, and you already got annoyed at my once for suggesting you were the wolf and i don't want to play that kinda game -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1369] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:33 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff so if all this annoyance is ate designed for me then good job on that -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1370] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 11:34 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff the thing is that chemist wouldn't have helped at all, since it flips at eod, and isn't announced. Also i don't get how you can have strong opinions on absolutely anything since my opinions are as strong as they can be right now That's the thing: I don't have strong opinions on anything. Because all my reads are piss weak and my one attempt to cling onto something (EoD1) has been terrible to try to follow up on. But by strong opinions I more meant trying to do as I am trying to do wrt actually finding stuff instead of me interrogating everyone and getting "I'm not sure" or "nah, maybe not" as my answers but never anything new. It's nobody's fault but I'm so frustrated with this game lol. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1371] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 11:35 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If MM is scum then his flip (Coward or not Coward) would fairly strongly imply which of Deb and Death were his partner (Death more likely partner if not coward due to Death's claimed scan, Deb more likely the partner if Coward as Death has the only role that a scum Coward could benefit from avoiding). In theory if I were confident im MM being mafia then it would be best to vote him first but in practice I'm not particularly confident in MM's alignment here even if I am still leaning towards him somewhat over Miz. Especially so because I'm not really sold on Deb/MM being the pair anyway. It just doesn't really click for me in terms of some or the interactions and both sides are approaching each other in the opposite way than to how I'd expect them to as scum partners. There's also the fringe possibility of a Deb/DW world and obviously from other people's perspectives my existence makes the whole thing suboptimal as well. So tl;dr while voting MM today is a possibility I am steering against it and would rather just vote in the pool of the one or more confirmed scum. Well, technically coward disrupts my role just as much. I really don't think ika would've died if we were BOTH scum DW & me... But yeah voting between us makes sense. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1372] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 11:35 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Completely understandable yeah. Now if only I could read Deb for shit we'd be somewhere. lol, that sucks to hear... At that point it's quite obviously on me tho, it's definitely a recurring issue. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1373] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:35 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff That's the thing: I don't have strong opinions on anything. Because all my reads are piss weak and my one attempt to cling onto something (EoD1) has been terrible to try to follow up on. But by strong opinions I more meant trying to do as I am trying to do wrt actually finding stuff instead of me interrogating everyone and getting "I'm not sure" or "nah, maybe not" as my answers but never anything new. It's nobody's fault but I'm so frustrated with this game lol. you are me and i am town and the game is adapt 24/24 but it's not a 24 it's a 48 and you are more like lily but i am still me -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1374] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 11:37 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff then again i also thought you were softing a poison sod2 so really i have no idea what you're doing this game Consider it mutual? Also, SoD2 was me thinking that Poison would be announced publicly as they are on MU and being subsequently frustrated at knowing we were in MYLO and that the huge essay (will) I had just sent the night phase writing was all for nothing as the game seemed doomed. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1375] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:38 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff seriously what kinda person goes "i wanna test a setup for champs" and then runs it as a 24/24 when in actual champs you will have more time than that and it won't be so wolfsided bc of it -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1376] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:39 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Consider it mutual? Also, SoD2 was me thinking that Poison would be announced publicly as they are on MU and being subsequently frustrated at knowing we were in MYLO and that the huge essay (will) I had just sent the night phase writing was all for nothing as the game seemed doomed. i mean i got that i was just hoping that there was an exciting twist at the end -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1377] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:39 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I will literally never forgive myself for unvoting death!!!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1378] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 11:40 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff And vittae this game was totally supposed to be an experimentation and attempt at not going so hard in a game for you, so.... Yeah, experiment failed. D1 I tried hard because I was having fun. D2 I tried hard because I wanted to win badly. D3 I try hard because I am likely going to be personally responsible if we lose. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1379] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 11:41 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I was / am pretty shocked by it and I'm just hoping anyone could give me an alternative answer to "scum are playing bad" or "Mizery scum". It's important for obvious reasons that I find out and re-eval immediately if I am vocally wrong and in a lylo situation. I feel somewhat more comfortable about the NK after the bucket conversation though ftr. That's the sort of answer I wanted. (I also really just wanted to talk to you about stuff tbh since you were around at the time and was hoping you'd talk if I asked about something unrelated to anything you'd posted about before). I take it WIFOM, making you ask precisely these questions is never an answer ? Why not ? It looks like it's working, regardless of whether mizery is scum or not -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1380] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 11:41 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm asking because i have read them all and there is nothing blaringly towny about them I agree, it's a lot of small micro things for me. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1381] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:41 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I was / am pretty shocked by it and I'm just hoping anyone could give me an alternative answer to "scum are playing bad" or "Mizery scum". It's important for obvious reasons that I find out and re-eval immediately if I am vocally wrong and in a lylo situation. I feel somewhat more comfortable about the NK after the bucket conversation though ftr. That's the sort of answer I wanted. (I also really just wanted to talk to you about stuff tbh since you were around at the time and was hoping you'd talk if I asked about something unrelated to anything you'd posted about before). I just literally have no idea how to answer a question because 1) i didn't think you were going to die anyways as i said earlier in a post i thought you were trying to get scum to think killing you was better for them because imo ikarus was 2) i have no idea why you think i keep you alive here -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1382] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:42 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yeah, experiment failed. D1 I tried hard because I was having fun. D2 I tried hard because I wanted to win badly. D3 I try hard because I am likely going to be personally responsible if we lose. simply vote in my place and i will be the deciding vote, ez -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1383] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 11:43 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff there's times it gives me pause but at the same time if the partner isn't MM it's you, vittae, and you already got annoyed at my once for suggesting you were the wolf and i don't want to play that kinda game When have I gotten annoyed at you for suggesting I was the wolf? The only times I remember it were EoD1 where it was like whatever and then you softed PR and I forgot about it and earlier today where I didn't comment on it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1384] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:46 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff When have I gotten annoyed at you for suggesting I was the wolf? The only times I remember it were EoD1 where it was like whatever and then you softed PR and I forgot about it and earlier today where I didn't comment on it. i appreciate you playing along with me when i was trying to claim pr -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1385] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 11:46 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Well, technically coward disrupts my role just as much. I really don't think ika would've died if we were BOTH scum DW & me... But yeah voting between us makes sense. Coward isn't on the action order but Snitch is 2nd after electro so I assumed Snitch was first. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1386] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:46 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff who are you currently leaning towards -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1387] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:47 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Because I'm just tempted to go with eod1 day illwei who thought it was death/mm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1388] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 11:48 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I will literally never forgive myself for unvoting death!!!! If you didn't then I wouldn't have you as town rn. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1389] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 11:49 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff That's the thing: I don't have strong opinions on anything. Because all my reads are piss weak and my one attempt to cling onto something (EoD1) has been terrible to try to follow up on. But by strong opinions I more meant trying to do as I am trying to do wrt actually finding stuff instead of me interrogating everyone and getting "I'm not sure" or "nah, maybe not" as my answers but never anything new. It's nobody's fault but I'm so frustrated with this game lol. If you wanna hear certainties I can do that but you specifically asked me not to :D From my POV we 3 are the only ones to give an actual fuck about wtf is going on this game, sure MM makes pretty good and long posts but he really doesn't seem to care either from my POV, which is especially funny since he called me out shortly after D2 because I acted like my role was pretty much done. I don't think it's a coincidence that both of you are frustrated and I'm pretty sure I'd feel the same if I didn't have that small bit of extra critical information that you don't. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1390] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:49 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Vittae simply claim PR d1 next time to die after a fun d1 :P. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1391] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:50 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff but also vittae you should know me enough to know that i would have killed between you/death n1 as a wolf and i woulda killed you n1 if teamed with death -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1392] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 11:51 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Coward isn't on the action order but Snitch is 2nd after electro so I assumed Snitch was first. Oh I'm fucking dumb I forgot about OoO -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1393] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 11:52 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Because I'm just tempted to go with eod1 day illwei who thought it was death/mm I am leaning towards Death/MM even before our exchange. I've been pretty solidly towards MM with some mild tinfoiling on you before this exchange and my read on Deb and Death changed several times but I'm leaning Death both in a vacuum and as a more realistic looking world than MM with Deb. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1394] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:53 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff deathworld -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1395] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 11:53 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Vittae simply claim PR d1 next time to die after a fun d1 :P. Same, but I'll never ever die n1 I'm always trapped :( -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1396] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 11:53 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Feeding bunnies, will respond to rest shortly. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1397] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 11:54 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff deathworld Have seen this post and am not hammering. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1398] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:54 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Same, but I'll never ever die n1 I'm always trapped :( you did not claim d1 nor did you even act like you were trying to get nkd -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1399] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 11:54 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff deathworld You were right after all, the game was easy all along -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1400] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 11:55 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff you did not claim d1 nor did you even act like you were trying to get nkd I did imply it smh my head not reading my posts -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1401] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 11:55 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff But yeah I should've went much harder -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1402] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 11:55 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff gone* -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1403] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:57 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff You were right after all, the game was easy all along is this a wolfclaim -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1404] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:57 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff is mm gonna come in here and hammer death -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1405] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 11:59 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff vittae where'd you go -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1406] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff is this a wolfclaim No it's a townclaim lol -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1407] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Feeding bunnies, will respond to rest shortly. They're rolling their food balls, it's very cute. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1408] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff hadn't even thought it would be more likely to be interpreted that way bc we still have 1 scum to go -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1409] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:01 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff They're rolling their food balls, it's very cute. find peace with your bunnies -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1410] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:01 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff hadn't even thought it would be more likely to be interpreted that way bc we still have 1 scum to go would be easy for you to go "easy game" as MM comes in here and hammers v!Death for you -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1411] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:02 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Vittae simply claim PR d1 next time to die after a fun d1 :P. I did attempt to soft Chemist but couldn't do it strongly because I didn't trust the person I suspected to be Chemist not to kill me as a cc. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1412] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:02 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff unvote -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1413] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff unvote Valid and towny. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1414] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff This game is the first time I feel bad for inflicting myself onto other players, it really seems like it would've been much easier had it not been me in my shoes rn -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1415] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff would be easy for you to go "easy game" as MM comes in here and hammers v!Death for you Please don't let today be the day I threw because of a joke -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1416] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:04 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff This game is the first time I feel bad for inflicting myself onto other players, it really seems like it would've been much easier had it not been me in my shoes rn i wish i could swap places with ikarus -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1417] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:04 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb > rand town for keeping posting after Miz voted instead of leaving to go spam MM in the wolf chat Discord. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1418] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:05 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff i wish i could swap places with ikarus I feel you, I've had a game like that -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1419] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:05 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff This game is the first time I feel bad for inflicting myself onto other players, it really seems like it would've been much easier had it not been me in my shoes rn No, I appreciate you a lot this game tbh. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1420] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:07 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff No, I appreciate you a lot this game tbh. A lot of the time I feel like it's been bad communication from my end holding me back from reading you. Regardless of your alignment I enjoyed playing with you and wouldn't have played close to as hard were you not around in the EU hours. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1421] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff No, I appreciate you a lot this game tbh. Welp, thanks, that's very much appreciated -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1422] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I mean at least from all this me/Deb w/w is now mechanically impossible. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1423] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:10 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff A lot of the time I feel like it's been bad communication from my end holding me back from reading you. Regardless of your alignment I enjoyed playing with you and wouldn't have played close to as hard were you not around in the EU hours. Ah yes, should've suspected you were a fellow european, considering how much we interacted -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1424] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:11 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff At least if the game ends today I can finally claim I went one whole game on an alt account without explicitly outing myself (I only implicitly outed myself on several occasions and I see that as an absolute win). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1425] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:11 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff At least if the game ends today I can finally claim I went one whole game on an alt account without explicitly outing myself (I only implicitly outed myself on several occasions and I see that as an absolute win). IDK who your main is but at least I know you ain't light yagami. Yeah I'm that good -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1426] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:13 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff a lot of this comes down to thinking the setup doesn't make much sense for chemist/invest/ikarus' role to all be on the same team. the role ikarus had isn't like a roleblocker or redirect where it's not a positive impact on village half the time because it's a role that villagers will just know to not use it. It being in the hands of the wolves makes sense for an invest role because if claimed or found then it can be changed. it only balances things out if used . Tailor could be the counter to invest which could make sense but it's only a 1 shot and I don't believe that it's been used. I had tinfoil on it being used on PoD but then i realized there's no n1 and pod was simply just a villager A redirect could be the final balancing aspect but some of you seem under the impression that redirect would be seen as a redirect, but i don't know where people are getting this idea. The investigator will get results as if he targeted his target, just with different alignments, so if MM is a beguiler then he can hide behind vittae or me and death will get the results as if he didn't. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1427] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:14 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff IDK who your main is but at least I know you ain't light yagami. Yeah I'm that good i wouldn't be in this game rn and there'd be a lot more nazi jokes -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1428] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:14 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Guys....I'm Actually Light Yagami.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1429] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:15 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff i have 200 posted this game who on earth made me do that *looks at vittae* -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1430] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:16 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Guys....I'm Actually Light Yagami.... Wrong... I'm Light... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1431] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:18 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff i wouldn't be in this game rn and there'd be a lot more nazi jokes You can say hi, I'm pretty sure he's reading ! BTW Light, don't think I'l EVER forgive you for voting me in Once Upon A Town :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1432] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:19 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff There Is A Problem Vittae In Your With Your Vote Order.. And I Really Cant Reveal That Problem.. With Out The Problem Coming 100% True.. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1433] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:20 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Banned users reading ongoing games? what a strange occurence *looks at vittae* -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1434] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:21 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff At least if the game ends today I can finally claim I went one whole game on an alt account without explicitly outing myself (I only implicitly outed myself on several occasions and I see that as an absolute win). is this a comment on how you're going to out your alt tomorrow because i don't see what makes you town about being who you are especially because people don't know you -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1435] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:21 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff if death is w vittae is always v -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1436] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:22 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff wait no -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1437] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:22 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff other way around -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1438] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:22 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff if death is v vittae is always v -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1439] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:23 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Wrong... I'm Light... Sorry but I cc Light. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1440] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:25 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Sorry but I cc Light. Ur Not Even A Good Impressionist.. Even Debbie Did Better. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1441] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff i have 200 posted this game who on earth made me do that *looks at vittae* I blame Vittae for making me post too much as well. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1442] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Sorry but I cc Light. That Was Terrible... But Then Again Not Too Bad For A Leftist... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1443] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff -vote loldebbite -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1444] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff That Was Terrible... But Then Again Not Too Bad For A Leftist... LOL -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1445] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ur Not Even A Good Impressionist.. Even Debbie Did Better. You Are Pretty Good At This Game... I'm Somewhat Impressed... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1446] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Banned users reading ongoing games? what a strange occurence *looks at vittae* Lmfao -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1447] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff -vote loldebbite WAT -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1448] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff -vote loldebbite I'm town -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1449] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I RETRACT EVERYTHING, NO MORE LIGHT JOKES -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1450] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Please unvote now? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1451] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:28 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff no more hard jokes either I swear -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1452] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:28 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff unvote i hate this game -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1453] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:28 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Well I am now mechanically confirmed town ig. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1454] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:29 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff :smile: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1455] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:30 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff is this a comment on how you're going to out your alt tomorrow because i don't see what makes you town about being who you are especially because people don't know you It's a running joke that I can't keep my identity secret when I alt because I always feel like I have to out it when people start playing poorly. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1456] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:30 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Why can't Vittae just be a wolf -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1457] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:30 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Real vote Miz or did you just want me to be mech town? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1458] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:31 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff It's a running joke that I can't keep my identity secret when I alt because I always feel like I have to out it when people start playing poorly. I simply out my alts because i have no self control -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1459] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:31 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Why can't Vittae just be a wolf Towny mindmeld. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1460] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:31 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Why can't Vittae just be a wolf why can't you ! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1461] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:31 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff why can't I ! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1462] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:31 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I wanted to check you but you might have gotten the hang of sc2 by now to realize -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1463] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:31 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I simply out my alts because i have no self control I have no alts because I suck -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1464] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:32 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff This game would be so much easier if me/vittae were the wolves just saying -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1465] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:32 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I have no alts because I suck I have too many alts because i suck -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1466] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:32 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff This game would be so much easier if me/vittae were the wolves just saying Well yes, if that was the case MM & DW would have actually played the game -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1467] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:33 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I have too many alts because i suck isn't 1 already too many -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1468] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:34 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Well yes, if that was the case MM & DW would have actually played the game We still would've gotten steamrolled afaik, with me doing a full 180° in f3 and throwing the game again thank god you guys are town omg I can still do that this game smh -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1469] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:34 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff WHY DON'T I CLAIM WHEN I DON'T WANT TO END IN F3 ONCE MORE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1470] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:34 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff It has been too long, I had forgotten -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1471] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:34 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I wanted to check you but you might have gotten the hang of sc2 by now to realize You could have just asked me nicely and I'd have told you I was town. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1472] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:35 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff We still would've gotten steamrolled afaik, with me doing a full 180° in f3 and throwing the game again thank god you guys are town omg I can still do that this game smh You're confident Miz is town here? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1473] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 12:37 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff i could still totally be a wolf with death here -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1474] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:39 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff You're confident Miz is town here? I told you my stance already : you seem to be, so I am... Then again I don't think I've seen mizery that towny ever (maybe anon accs idk), but that might be because of you -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1475] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:39 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff i could still totally be a wolf with death here If you and Death are w/w and I misvote, do I still get cred for getting it right on D1? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1476] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:40 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I told you my stance already : you seem to be, so I am... Then again I don't think I've seen mizery that towny ever (maybe anon accs idk), but that might be because of you She has been extremely towny since she's popped back into the thread so I'm pretty confident she's just town even outside of EoD1 stuff now. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1477] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:41 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Which ig does beg the question again of if we should bother to vote in the difference check or just vote MM. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1478] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Which ig does beg the question again of if we should bother to vote in the difference check or just vote MM. Positives for Voting MM: - Possibly a likelier scum than either Death or Deb are individually. - MM's flip will suggest towards the alignment of Death and Deb (but not confirm it) Negatives for Voting MM: - Loses if Miz is scum. - Loses if Deb/Death are scum together. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1479] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Well the other downside is that even if MM is scum, if we hold off Deb/Death to F3 me and Miz can't discuss who to vote together. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1480] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 12:51 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff The third downside is that I just want the game to be decided today lmao. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1481] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:51 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Well the other downside is that even if MM is scum, if we hold off Deb/Death to F3 me and Miz can't discuss who to vote together. You guys are not discussing who to vote in F3 regardless, tho -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1482] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:52 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff The third downside is that I just want the game to be decided today lmao. that's more an upside from voting MM than voting DW, isn't it ? Voting DW means there's still stuff to go on about, as you said voting MM basically solves us at the same time -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1483] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 12:56 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I totally understand your issue and highly recommend this article: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/23470-20-How-To-Put-Wolves-In-A-Box-%28by-Newcomb%29 While sometimes it is better to just snap find scum, it's not the only method available to your disposal and if you're struggling with that then this is a great way to circumvent it. It's often more accurate than just trying to vote out mafia the more direct / intuitive way (although less applicable in certain lobbies and situations). This is an understandable viewpoint to have for a fairly new player but I can at least assure you that it's pretty wrong once you get more experience. btw is there a dark theme on that site or I am doomed to burn my eyes trying to read it ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1484] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff that's more an upside from voting MM than voting DW, isn't it ? Voting DW means there's still stuff to go on about, as you said voting MM basically solves us at the same time Opposite for me rn. MM feels like the more clear scum than Death in both piles. In MM/Miz I think Miz is town 80% of the time. In Deb/Death I think it's more of a 60/40 split. Obviously there's Deb/Death w/w but I think the odds of it are fairly low as well. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1485] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:01 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff btw is there a dark theme on that site or I am doomed to burn my eyes trying to read it ? If you scroll down to the very bottom of the page there is a drop down box where you can choose various themes. This might change slightly for users who aren't logged in but I'm pretty sure it's still the same. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1486] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 01:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Positives for Voting MM: - Possibly a likelier scum than either Death or Deb are individually. - MM's flip will suggest towards the alignment of Death and Deb (but not confirm it) Negatives for Voting MM: - Loses if Miz is scum. - Loses if Deb/Death are scum together. if you were twice you'd have already voted mm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1487] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 01:04 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Marshmallow Marshal -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1488] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:05 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Marshmallow Marshal I dont think I need to but still going to confirm. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1489] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:06 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Miz where's your head at between Deb and Death rn? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1490] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 01:07 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm kinda tinfoiling that they're v/v but still intent to vote death -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1491] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 01:07 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I meant to say w/w -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1492] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 01:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff . . . -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1493] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Moreso just confidence levels. I'm not confident tbh. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1494] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:10 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm kinda tinfoiling that they're v/v but still intent to vote death Yeah I've had some tinfoil that they're w/w (both have meh posting alignment wise and neither feels truly desperate for us to vote the other) but mechanically it seems like it's unlikely to be the case. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1495] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:10 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Actually, is it? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1496] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:11 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Chemist/Bartender v Investigator(?)/Tailor(?) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1497] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:12 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Chemist/Bartender v Investigator(?)/Tailor(?) I think if Death is bussing Deb then Deb is almost always actually a Tailor. Death likely to be invest regardless of alignment on the basis of the early soft. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1498] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:12 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I think if Death is bussing Deb then Deb is almost always actually a Tailor. Death likely to be invest regardless of alignment on the basis of the early soft. Both of those are far from certain though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1499] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:15 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb just didn't play D1 as a Town Scout tbh. Inexperience changes that from "outing" to "bad" but it's still a big concern for me that makes voting Death harder to justify than it should be. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1500] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:16 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb just didn't play D1 as a Town Scout tbh. Inexperience changes that from "outing" to "bad" but it's still a big concern for me that makes voting Death harder to justify than it should be. *Town Snitch -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1501] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 01:21 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb just didn't play D1 as a Town Scout tbh. Inexperience changes that from "outing" to "bad" but it's still a big concern for me that makes voting Death harder to justify than it should be. Well SORRY... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1502] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:21 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Whereas everything Death did do has been consistent with his claim (early D1 very mild invest soft, reaction to getting pushed) even if the actual claim itself was dreadful and extremely wolfy. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1503] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 01:23 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff deathworlds check out Kill Six Billion Demons, a nice webcomic, you might enjoy it You all should be checking it out tbh, it's quite great -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1504] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 01:23 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Whereas everything Death did do has been consistent with his claim (early D1 very mild invest soft, reaction to getting pushed) even if the actual claim itself was dreadful and extremely wolfy. well he still claims a cit check on MM the 20% town, tho -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1505] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:24 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Miz, from your experiences with MM is he a more antagonistic wolf towards his partners? You know, one who shades / busses his partners a lot in the thread? That was my impression from the meta of his I've seen and would line up more with his treatment of Death here (a disingenuous-seeming push early into D1). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1506] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 01:24 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also I must ask now, how tf was I supposed to play ? Try to get myself lynched ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1507] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:24 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff deathworlds check out Kill Six Billion Demons, a nice webcomic, you might enjoy it You all should be checking it out tbh, it's quite great Is this you pinging Death to quickhammer -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1508] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:24 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Because that reads like you pinging Death to quickhammer -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1509] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:25 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Mizery -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1510] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 01:25 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I can barely get myself town read so I really don't see how I EVER widely TR to the point where I'm a target for scum -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1511] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 01:25 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff EVER get* widely.. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1512] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff well he still claims a cit check on MM the 20% town, tho MM being Coward is realistic and part of why I'm considering voting there today. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1513] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 01:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Because that reads like you pinging Death to quickhammer chill dude, there's no way we can oh wait there's a scum chat, I guess we could ffs -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1514] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 01:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff MM being Coward is realistic and part of why I'm considering voting there today. Yeah I guess scum has to have SOME kind of PR, uh -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1515] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 01:28 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff sigh I'm logging off I'm tired of scoring own goals -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1516] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:28 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also I must ask now, how tf was I supposed to play ? Try to get myself lynched ? Nightkill. You had a billion opportunities to PR claim so you could be nightkilled: - Varcron's claim - Your bucket mech post - Miz pushing for bucket - Death counterclaiming you in the thread And you always took the no claiming approach besides EoD1 where you, inexplicably if town, only softed instead of outright ccing. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1517] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:30 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff chill dude, there's no way we can oh wait there's a scum chat, I guess we could ffs Sorry but it was so out of nowhere and it reads like Death not responding in wolf chat so you're trying to get his attention in the thread. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1518] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:30 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff sigh I'm logging off I'm tired of scoring own goals If you're town then this is honestly hilarious. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1519] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:33 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'll check out the webcomic though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1520] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 01:37 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If you're town then this is honestly hilarious. It's really not. I'M SO BORED I keep saying stupid shit and then I stop and go read stuff and since dw recommended one to me I feel like throwing the lift back at him Sigh I really don't think I ever switch onto dw D1 if I'm scum btw and now I'm logging off for real until I'm so fucking bored again that I come back sigh -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1521] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:40 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff It's really not. I'M SO BORED I keep saying stupid shit and then I stop and go read stuff and since dw recommended one to me I feel like throwing the lift back at him Sigh I really don't think I ever switch onto dw D1 if I'm scum btw and now I'm logging off for real until I'm so fucking bored again that I come back sigh Dw about it, stuff happens. It was just very jarring and there was already the worry Death would come in to hammer. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1522] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 20th, 2023 01:54 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also the huge wtf moment where Death tells Varcron not to fire N1 as Chemist. I'm giving Death the benefit of the doubt here because maybe he didn't know better but this is basically mech openwolfing and if this is something Death should know better than to do please make me aware. At least we know why Varcron likely didn't poison now. What? I don't think i ever explicitly said that varcron or chemist should not use their abilities. I said tailor, bartender, and janitor should never use their abilities. There was some arguement regarding what exactly constituted as anti-town utility, but I don't think I said any role outside of those three should holster. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1523] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:56 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff You're probably right, with the chemist at least Here. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1524] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:56 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Death are you hammering? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1525] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 01:57 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If you're not, can you explicitly confirm that please? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1526] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 20th, 2023 01:59 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Hammer? The vote is both l-2 and I'm locked vs loldebite. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1527] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 02:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Miz why did you leave this vote here lmao. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1528] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 20th, 2023 02:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If you mean hammer later, I'm off shift at exactly end of day (fucking sucks). I'm here for the next 18 minutes -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1529] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 02:01 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Hammer? The vote is both l-2 and I'm locked vs loldebite. Yes but if you and Deb are partners the game is over. Miz isn't here to retract so you can both vote and end the game. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1530] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 20th, 2023 02:01 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Unless im missing something and the vote isn't 1 and 1 between me and loldebite?? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1531] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 20th, 2023 02:02 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Guys....I'm Actually Light Yagami.... VADE RETRO, SATANAS! lol. I exist now and hopefully for a little while, trying to find out what happened with votes being placed -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1532] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 02:02 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Unless im missing something and the vote isn't 1 and 1 between me and loldebite?? There is a mech possibility that you/Deb are w/w. Assuming you aren't based on your reaction though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1533] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 02:03 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm mech confirmed town anyway so it's always 1 in Deb/Death and 1 in Miz/MM mechanically if there's no hammer happening here. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1534] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 20th, 2023 02:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Here. Oh Yeah you're right that was a bad call, not sure why I didn't stick to my guns -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1535] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 20th, 2023 02:18 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Anyways I'm off until eod, uhhh vote loldebite cause if we don't then scum might force a tie which they always win at lylo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1536] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 02:20 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Your call Miz -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1537] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 20th, 2023 02:24 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff so loldebite is scum, who is his partner. loldebite/mizery loldebite/mm loldebite/vittae better to start with speculation of the scum team. Scum has a tailor, that's a fact, there's no mechanical reason that a tailor would not appear. I'm going to run off of the assumption that Varcron was at least telling the truth about being TPR. Deathworlds invest ikarusdk flip chemist (likely not tailored) Loldebite claims snitch appears as tailor Marshmallow Marshall -claim cit, appear as cit Mizery claims cit powerofdeath flipped cit (not tailored) Varcron flipped chemist (likely tailored) Vittae claims cit Role list is this Patriots Hidden Patriot - Invest (me) Hidden Patriot - Chemist? (Varcron) Hidden Patriot - Bartender (Ikar) Citizen Citizen Citizen Loyalists Hidden Loyalist - Tailor Hidden Loyalist - ???? What is the 2nd scum? Assuming no one has lied about their feedback and fullclaimed all their feedback, we can cross out the following possibilities. Using these roles in some form or another would likely be optimal, to not use them would be so unlikely I'd consider it impossible. Chemist Electromaniac Stagecoach Janitor Operator These roles all leave very visible feedback, and as we haven't received any feedback from them, it's safe to assume they're not here. That leaves these roles Blacksmith Physician Tracker Scout Investigator Bartender Coward Tailor Blacksmith would have been able to use a gun and win the game at this point, they don't exist here. Physician Tracker Scout Investigator Bartender Coward Tailor Two tailors would be funny, but we have been given no reason to believe that both ikar and varcron have been tailored. Assuming a world where ikar was indeed scum (I find this so unlikely based on my d1 read of them), would it make any amount of sense to tailor your scum buddy? It could end up confusing town and making us act cautious for the next day, but the trick would be figured out once we passed the fake LYLO today. Wait I actually realized this is impossible as fuck since ikar died at night, zero shot that scum killed their own buddy, that's throwing. I'm disregarding a 2nd tailor, since scum doesn't really have the amount of mislynches to really utilize tailor to its fullest, anyone that scum kills at night is town, and town only has one mislynch available. Physician Tracker Scout Investigator Bartender Coward There's been no cases of contradictory feedback so far (with the exception of ikar targeting MM), so I'm discounting bartender. Physician Tracker Scout Investigator Coward Scout is significantly weaker in the hands of mafia compared to the other options, mafia know who they are going to visit, all lookout accomplishes is having a chance on figuring out who a TPR is, but predicting that isn't the easiest thing in the world, and is weaker compared to either investigator (straight up tells them the role), or tracker (lets them discover if that target is a TPR) Physician Tracker Investigator Coward scum sided doctor is such a foreign idea to me that it hardly computes, assuming varcrons flip is accurate, does the doctor even prevent the chemist from killing? By the wording of the feedback given and the wording of the role (preventing an attack) compared to chemists (poison a player) and the timing, it just doesn't work. Tracker Investigator Coward I think the last scum is any of these three. Now as for who they could be. There's a chance that loldebite is actually a coward, who hid onto varcron, and killed him in the same night, but from a scum perspective, what does this accomplish? In what world does the coward hide onto their mafia buddy? I can't imagine a scenario right now where that would be benefitial, presumably, the coward would hide to avoid investigation, or negative effects. You don't want your buddy to be investigated, and you sure as shit don't want them to be poisoned or bartended or just night killed. No, loldebite is exactly the tailor, there's no other option. so either MM Mizery Vittae are one of those three possible scum roles. Loldebite/MM Loldebite/Mizery Loldebite/Vittae I scanned MM as citizen, it's possible he is a coward and hid onto either mizery or vittae to appear as citizen. I had a scum lean on mizery on day 1. I had a strong town lean on vittae on day 1. If I had to wager, it would be between MM and Mizery (also if vittae is scum then G frickin G) If MM or Mizery are investigator or tracker, then my scan on MM was true and accurate. If MM was exactly coward, then it is possible that my scan on MM was faked by him targeting mizery or vittae. Coward only has two charges, in the world where MM was coward, one would have to have been used last night. What are the odds that Coward!MM has any charges left? If I was scum, I'd like to use one of my two charges on night 1 to avoid any potential "random" negative effects in a setup this small and this short. If I scan MM again tonight, there is a very high likelihood I can prove he is citizen or coward by comparing night results. If Mizery is coward or investigator/tracker, then there is nothing she could have done to interfere with my night results, so once again, it can be likely proved by just scanning MM again. But why wouldn't scum have investigative? I still pretty firmly believe that scum has an investigative role and a non-janitor disruptive role, and I was at least proven half right with a tailor scan. It's likely Loldebite/Mizery or Loldebite/MM, and loldebite/MM can only happen if MM is exactly coward, and if there is no scum aligned investigative role, which is so unlikely. I'd wager on Loldebite/Mizery This train of thought is very sensible/easy to follow, and I see no red flags upon reading/rereading; it feels like Deathworlds is really trying to solve the game, and I really like this post. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1538] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 20th, 2023 02:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm going to ISO Debbie quickly enough to make sure I'm not going on a tangent atm. If you want me to address something, feel free to use pings in the meantime -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1539] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 02:28 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff This train of thought is very sensible/easy to follow, and I see no red flags upon reading/rereading; it feels like Deathworlds is really trying to solve the game, and I really like this post. Isn't the post you quoted 90% mech speculation and basically just NAI? The 10% is saying I'm town which isn't anything new to anyone. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1540] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 02:29 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Isn't the post you quoted 90% mech speculation and basically just NAI? The 10% is saying I'm town which isn't anything new to anyone. You can do your ISO first, it's not urgent. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1541] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 20th, 2023 02:32 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Were already winning this game no need to play it so straight Can't tell if having an aneurysm or trolling Probably a bad sign Loldebite I had missed this post. What did you mean by this? I don't think you've reacted much/at all to my big attack on Mizery, in spite of it being clear and important enough as far as I can tell, and yet you're reacting strangely to the exact post that triggered my suspicion, so it'd be nice to clarify this. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1542] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 20th, 2023 02:37 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Isn't the post you quoted 90% mech speculation and basically just NAI? The 10% is saying I'm town which isn't anything new to anyone. It's not just pure speculation for the sake of it (which is really what I didn't like during early D1, btw), it's applying logic using the information that we have (as opposed to just drawing conclusions out of thin air) to analyze the gamestate and draw conclusions on who can be scum with who - and the reasoning is very coherent and genuine. This kind of post is already hard enough to make as town, but it's even harder as scum, since you have to constantly fake a genuine uninformed point of view, and I don't see any of this in DW's post. (LAMIST has nothing to do with my read, for the record, especially considering Deathworlds does that all the time as any alignment) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1543] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 20th, 2023 02:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff MM, all of your reads are basically "pending" Your townread on Varcron is because of a PR claim (which you say is pending mechanical info) Your townread on Vittae is pending pretty much anything, claiming it's because he's experienced and charismatic (and calling everything he's done NAI basically) lol is a semi-micro read based on a single post (with the disclaimer that it means nothing to you really) Ikarus you find yourself unable to read despite, in my opinion and in others, him being pretty towny and having a lot to go on in general Your read on me is just "(TMI?)" which is honestly the most decisive read in your list Death is another single post read but piggybacking on the claim that mech info is useless and seemingly choosing to not get out of that tunnel or talk about his reads post recently. Also, I should mention : as much as I want not to, I really like this post. In continuity with my last post addressed to Debbie: the hell? Why in the world would you like THIS lol? Regarding posts such as this one (there are a few of them): Well, uh, thought your read on me had decayed already but I read back and I've no clue why I thought that. Yeah no, something's off. There's no way you've seen me at the far end of everyone's readslist and was content with putting me in the TR range for a mere mech post all the while saying "it ain't much, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯". Especially when your bottom read is based solely on another mech post and honestly the differences are not that great. Definitely not great enough that you can wave your hand and say "Nah all those 6 people are wrong, I can feel it !". I don't know if I'm getting biased against Debbie right now, but while I felt like it could be towny paranoia back then, considering the multiple occurences of "paranoie" later on being openly stated as such by Debbie himself, I think it might actually have been awkwardly obvious self-consciousness that he used when I pointed it out to then look like a "genuinely confused" townie. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1544] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 02:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff It's not just pure speculation for the sake of it (which is really what I didn't like during early D1, btw), it's applying logic using the information that we have (as opposed to just drawing conclusions out of thin air) to analyze the gamestate and draw conclusions on who can be scum with who - and the reasoning is very coherent and genuine. This kind of post is already hard enough to make as town, but it's even harder as scum, since you have to constantly fake a genuine uninformed point of view, and I don't see any of this in DW's post. (LAMIST has nothing to do with my read, for the record, especially considering Deathworlds does that all the time as any alignment) But doesn't Death's post just: - Get a list of potential scum PRs. - Cross off the onviously impossible / nonsensical ones. - Conclude that I'm town with no explanation. - Use dubious scan mech to deduce that Miz is a wolf There's not any solving in here nor is any of this mech remotely difficult for anybody to fake. I made much harder, more in detail mech posts in my first ever forum mafia wolf game (my 3rd forum mafia game over) and when I look at this post there's nothing that would require even a moderately experienced player with mech in order to make it. Just seems like a very thin reason to give a player town points when we are less than 2 hours before EoD in F5. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1545] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 02:58 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff marshmallow marshal -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1546] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 02:59 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff marshmallow marshal Weren't you already there? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1547] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:00 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Well, you're mech confirmed to be a difference check now at least. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1548] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:01 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'd like to see MM commit to a vote on Deb or Death ASAP. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1549] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:02 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'd like to see MM commit to a vote on Deb or Death ASAP. Marshmallow Marshall not to rush you but want time to think after you vote please. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1550] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 20th, 2023 03:04 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff But doesn't Death's post just: - Get a list of potential scum PRs. - Cross off the onviously impossible / nonsensical ones. - Conclude that I'm town with no explanation. - Use dubious scan mech to deduce that Miz is a wolf There's not any solving in here nor is any of this mech remotely difficult for anybody to fake. I made much harder, more in detail mech posts in my first ever forum mafia wolf game (my 3rd forum mafia game over) and when I look at this post there's nothing that would require even a moderately experienced player with mech in order to make it. Just seems like a very thin reason to give a player town points when we are less than 2 hours before EoD in F5. How is there "not any solving in there"? He is: - analyzing the situation to conclude his feedback on Debbie was correct - applying a similar logic for his scan on me - going by elimination, getting to Mizery - explaining all these steps as they come to him in his reflexion That looks like solving to me, and I'm not sure I see what you're seeing. As for saying you're town, honestly, if you aren't, we have purely and simply already lost, and I accept losing to this world because you'd be a bloody good scum lol. The level of analysis, solving, train-of-thought-ing, etc. you've been maintaining since the start of the game is EXTREMELY pro-town and difficult to fake, and no interactions between you and Debbie/Deathworlds looked specially suspicious. I don't think saying you're town is exactly scandalous lol. As for it not being difficult to fake, I guess you can just say "skill issue" lol, but I'd argue this is more about you, who clearly have a strong ability to analyze games with structured posts, than it is about the general "easiness" of the process. Is there something I'm not seeing? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1551] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 20th, 2023 03:05 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Lold and MM. MM is hard defending Lold while Lold is soft bussing MM but never quite voting them. I feel like theyre a team looool nah that's too big where's the catch What is this reaction about, too? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1552] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 20th, 2023 03:08 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Marshmallow Marshall not to rush you but want time to think after you vote please. Ugh, and Debbie isn't here to answer my questions. I'll give him like 5 more minutes in case he magically pops in, and if nothing is said, I think I'm likely to vote there. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1553] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 20th, 2023 03:12 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also, I just realized, after reading Debbie's ISO (well the first pages of it, so during D1), that there's pretty much nothing indicating he's actually snitch. Like, he seems more interested in surviving without being too scumread than in making himself a target while making town move, which is 100 % what I see pretty much any snitch ever do in any context lol, since the role is so powerful. That might actually be the most important thing in the whole DW/debbie thunderdome, considering Deathworlds pretty much centered his gameplay around roles, which makes sense as investigator. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1554] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:13 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff How is there "not any solving in there"? He is: - analyzing the situation to conclude his feedback on Debbie was correct - applying a similar logic for his scan on me - going by elimination, getting to Mizery - explaining all these steps as they come to him in his reflexion That looks like solving to me, and I'm not sure I see what you're seeing. As for saying you're town, honestly, if you aren't, we have purely and simply already lost, and I accept losing to this world because you'd be a bloody good scum lol. The level of analysis, solving, train-of-thought-ing, etc. you've been maintaining since the start of the game is EXTREMELY pro-town and difficult to fake, and no interactions between you and Debbie/Deathworlds looked specially suspicious. I don't think saying you're town is exactly scandalous lol. As for it not being difficult to fake, I guess you can just say "skill issue" lol, but I'd argue this is more about you, who clearly have a strong ability to analyze games with structured posts, than it is about the general "easiness" of the process. Is there something I'm not seeing? I was referring to social solving when I said solving (eg reads) and not mech solving. Mech solving is one of those things that if you can do it as town you can do it as mafia trivially. There is no significant extra burden there with TMI compared to without. It's significantly easier for a player to fake mech solving than social solving and Death's post firmly lands in the former category. If you didn't see, I'm also basically confirmed town as Miz has voted both Death and Deb and I haven't hammered either. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1555] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:14 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Also, I just realized, after reading Debbie's ISO (well the first pages of it, so during D1), that there's pretty much nothing indicating he's actually snitch. Like, he seems more interested in surviving without being too scumread than in making himself a target while making town move, which is 100 % what I see pretty much any snitch ever do in any context lol, since the role is so powerful. That might actually be the most important thing in the whole DW/debbie thunderdome, considering Deathworlds pretty much centered his gameplay around roles, which makes sense as investigator. Yeah, this is basically the big hit against Deb rn. Death's role claim is just much more reflective of his D1. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1556] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 20th, 2023 03:17 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I was referring to social solving when I said solving (eg reads) and not mech solving. Mech solving is one of those things that if you can do it as town you can do it as mafia trivially. There is no significant extra burden there with TMI compared to without. It's significantly easier for a player to fake mech solving than social solving and Death's post firmly lands in the former category. If you didn't see, I'm also basically confirmed town as Miz has voted both Death and Deb and I haven't hammered either. Hmm, that's fair enough, I guess, considering although he did provide reads, they were mostly either mech or not detailed in the post. My point wasn't really that "mech talk is hard", though, it's that it's hard to insert it in a coherent train of thoughts when you don't actually have that train of thoughts because you're informed, hence the townpoints. Also, that is the vote conclusion I was looking for in the thread without finding it because I got distracted lol. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1557] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:17 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Slightly concerned that we are lacking players before EoD. Mizery Loldebite can you post to check in when you're here please? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1558] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 20th, 2023 03:18 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Well, the 5 minutes are over and Debbie is nowhere to be seen, and I don't think he uses invisible mode, so... Loldebite -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1559] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 03:20 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm here but kinda afk -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1560] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:20 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Well, the 5 minutes are over and Debbie is nowhere to be seen, and I don't think he uses invisible mode, so... Loldebite Yet again, no hammer here. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1561] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:21 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ok so it's Deb/MM Deb/Miz Death/MM As available teams? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1562] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 03:22 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If mm is voting lol bc his partner is lol and thinks we won't follow I will kill everyone -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1563] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:22 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ok so it's Deb/MM Deb/Miz Death/MM As available teams? We should probably be voting between Deb and MM then ideally. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1564] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:23 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If mm is voting lol bc his partner is lol and thinks we won't follow I will kill everyone I don't know MM well enough to have any guess on which way he'd likely go in lylo as a wolf. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1565] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:24 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff We should probably be voting between Deb and MM then ideally. Loldebite Death can't be mafia unless MM is also mafia so you should switch there. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1566] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:26 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Full disclosure that I will hammer a bit before EoD to make sure no last second issues occur. Make sure you either get your stuff in before then or lmk if you're typing something important. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1567] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 20th, 2023 03:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff So the world did not implode, which is nice. Ok so it's Deb/MM Deb/Miz Death/MM As available teams? That very much makes sense. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1568] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:32 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Surely Deb doesn't skip EoD if they're town... right? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1569] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 03:32 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Not one of the votes I placed today was real and I'm sure someone at least noticed -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1570] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 03:33 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff deathworlds If he's town then I give up everything -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1571] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 20th, 2023 03:34 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/744452659884458125/1087503579734093915/image.png?width=517&height=556 ... what the hell lol? It doesn't look as bad in the thread because the posts are relatively spaced out, but there is no context whatsoever explaining this xD. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1572] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:35 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff deathworlds If he's town then I give up everything Mechanically, Death can't be mafia unless MM is also mafia. Obviously this counts on having Deb to swap over to MM though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1573] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:36 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/744452659884458125/1087503579734093915/image.png?width=517&height=556 ... what the hell lol? It doesn't look as bad in the thread because the posts are relatively spaced out, but there is no context whatsoever explaining this xD. Was thar before or after Death claimed investigator? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1574] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:37 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff If Deb doesn't show up at 10 mins before EoD then will assume they're going to no show and vote accordingly. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1575] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:37 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Wait -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1576] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:38 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff MM hammering or not? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1577] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 20th, 2023 03:38 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Was thar before or after Death claimed investigator? Before; Death screamed "IM TPR" like 4 posts after Debbie's last vote, to which debbie replied: ngl I'm lynching TPR over cit any day -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1578] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:38 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Miz you should unvote tbh. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1579] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:39 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Before; Death screamed "IM TPR" like 4 posts after Debbie's last vote, to which debbie replied: Ok so at least the vote switch doesn't directly contradict what Deb is claiming happened. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1580] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:40 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff ... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1581] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 20th, 2023 03:41 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff MM hammering or not? *evil laughter* no, I'm not lol -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1582] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:41 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff And the thread dies. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1583] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:41 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff *evil laughter* no, I'm not lol Ok great lmao. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1584] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:42 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff So Miz/Deb or MM/Death are the only teams -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1585] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:42 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff And I'm here with the deciding vote ig. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1586] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 03:43 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff okay great we haven't lost yet why do I have 3 mentions -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1587] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 20th, 2023 03:43 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Ok so at least the vote switch doesn't directly contradict what Deb is claiming happened. Which is? What does this refer to -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1588] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:43 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Any last things you want to say? Will give you a few minutes and if nobody posts then I'm voting. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1589] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:44 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Which is? What does this refer to Deb's role was a cc to Death's so if Deb switched away afterwards it would be pretty outing imo. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1590] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 20th, 2023 03:45 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Deb's role was a cc to Death's so if Deb switched away afterwards it would be pretty outing imo. It wasn't a CC just yet, since he hadn't had the time to investigate anyone, but it doesn't matter much anyway at this point. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1591] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 03:46 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Loldebite I had missed this post. What did you mean by this? I don't think you've reacted much/at all to my big attack on Mizery, in spite of it being clear and important enough as far as I can tell, and yet you're reacting strangely to the exact post that triggered my suspicion, so it'd be nice to clarify this. It's just that you were about as scum as mizery in my mind back then -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1592] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 03:47 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff What is this reaction about, too? simple, I'm never acting like that with you if we're s/s -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1593] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:47 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Going to end this now as I don't want to miss EoD by accident. Sorry if wrong and I've wolfsided hard this game. I just can't find either of MM and Death as town, I think they have w/w indicative interactions and I have Miz as town. Deathworlds -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1594] Auteur : The Godfather Date : March 20th, 2023 03:47 PM deathworlds has been hammered. Stand by for the host's review and day-end post! Loldebite ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/27307') (2 [L-1]): deathworlds ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=975053'), Marshmallow Marshall ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=975346') deathworlds ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/9527') (3 [L-0]): Loldebite ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=975083'), Mizery ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=975358'), Vittae ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=975381') -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1595] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 20th, 2023 03:48 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff It's just that you were about as scum as mizery in my mind back then :thinking: so that makes her statement less TMI-y and thus not questionable? That's a nope lol. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1596] Auteur : MartinGG99 Date : March 20th, 2023 03:57 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff END OF GAME The Loyalists have jointly conceded upon the death of Deathworlds, whom was a Loyalist Investigator. The other Loyalist was Marshmallow Marshall, who was a Loyalist Coward. Good game everyone! https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1084595193564627015/1084718611324743780/VID-20230303-WA0000.mp4 Patriot Snitch Patriot Chemist Patriot Bartender Citizen Citizen Citizen Loyalist Coward Loyalist Investigator Reasons as to why its balanced: 1. Snitch cant confirm themselves without dying. Effectively a low-power role, to help give some power to town. 2. Coward can counter Chemist and to some extent Snitch, but not really bartender. Reason being Bartender's town play, if they are going to make use of their role, is to create fake-claimed situations in order to gauge reads. This happens regardless of whether Coward works and doesn't necessarily hurt town. 3. Chemist can still target/kill the investigator. Also helps to prevent the game from just being over after two mis-eliminations, which I feel is a tad too easy for the loyalists to pull off. Especially on a site that doesn't always do productive d1's. If I made chemist to be doctor, armor smith, or gun smith, or even stagecoach driver instead, that could potentially confirm two people when tipping the game back towards town's favor and can be really damning if played right. With chemist, its a minimum of one patriot confirmed and one loyalist dead and isn't as likely to "confirm" two or more people. Granted, with chemist, it can back-fire. But so long as Chemist lives, the game can't quite end in Loyalist's favor. 4. Loyalist Investigator can help loyalists discern fake-claims and what-not, which could improve their overall strategy and play. To some extent this alone could help them mitigate bartender / snitch 's impacts. Otherwise its low-impact-ish, which is what I think this setup needs to be roughly balanced in light of the town's options. [2:07 PM] ====================== Setup could be a fair bit swingy though if Chemist dies in some circumstances (edited) [2:08 PM] But, I felt like we needed something to prevent or cause a kill in town's favor, and the alternatives could be worse I think for the game's balance. Edit: I think Coward having 1 less hide may make this more balanced, as Chemist in its current state may have an only one in seventh chance of RNG hitting a loyalist with the Coward hiding, but I can't make such a change without announcing it and, without thinking up other changes, it may risk spewing Coward as Loyalist and/or existing. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1597] Auteur : MartinGG99 Date : March 20th, 2023 03:58 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Oh and, deadchat/mafia-chat link https://discord.gg/SD43QNDwGR -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1598] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 03:58 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff FUCK YES -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1599] Auteur : Mizery Date : March 20th, 2023 04:02 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'm a god idc that I voted wrong d1 I'm a god -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1600] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 20th, 2023 04:04 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff NNNNNNNNNnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooo.................................................... Welp. It was fun to play again lol, despite being scum, which I DEEPLY HATE (i feel you for the 50 % wolf rands, mizery...). I'd have much better liked solving with Vittae than being on the other side tbh, it would have been much more fun xD. GG WP -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1601] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 20th, 2023 04:18 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff MAKE SURE YOU GUYS VOTE FOR MARSHMALLOW MARSHALL TOMORROW, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT! HE IS 100% SCUM IN MY EYES! so yeah... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1602] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 20th, 2023 04:20 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff pod im so sorry -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1603] Auteur : powerofdeath Date : March 20th, 2023 04:22 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff pod im so sorry i mean its fine i voted you, you voted me, no biggies -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1604] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 04:23 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff OMG WE WIN NOW ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1605] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 04:24 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff I'M SORRY FOR EVERYONE It's the first FM game I play that I win ;( -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1606] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 04:25 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff NNNNNNNNNnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooo.................................................... Welp. It was fun to play again lol, despite being scum, which I DEEPLY HATE (i feel you for the 50 % wolf rands, mizery...). I'd have much better liked solving with Vittae than being on the other side tbh, it would have been much more fun xD. GG WP Would you rather be me and rand town every time but throw it down the drain 80% of the time ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1607] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 20th, 2023 04:27 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Would you rather be me and rand town every time but throw it down the drain 80% of the time ? Yes I would If I could I surely would. Because fuck being scum. Seriously. ;( Also, I'm officially trying something new next game, because I need a meta cleanup + because I want to explore new stuff! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1608] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 20th, 2023 04:30 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff so yeah... SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :P -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1609] Auteur : Lumi Date : March 20th, 2023 04:33 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Gg wp everyone! Was a fun game to watch -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1610] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 04:36 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Gg wp everyone! Was a fun game to watch glad SOMEONE had fun ! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1611] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 04:37 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Yes I would If I could I surely would. Because fuck being scum. Seriously. ;( Also, I'm officially trying something new next game, because I need a meta cleanup + because I want to explore new stuff! debating going into hiding and never showing my face ever again rn -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1612] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 20th, 2023 04:42 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff debating going into hiding and never showing my face ever again rn Wut? Why lol, you played well and I said nothing wrong ...did I? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1613] Auteur : Loldebite Date : March 20th, 2023 04:49 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Wut? Why lol, you played well and I said nothing wrong ...did I? -_- stop pocketing me the game's over !! No you didn't say anything it's just somewhat relevant Anyway, Mandy's a great film and Panos Cosmatos is the best director ever. And DO check Kill 6B Demons out -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1614] Auteur : MartinGG99 Date : March 20th, 2023 04:53 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Considering the positive reception of the game setup and balance, I decided to add my setup notes to the first/End-game posts so that future potential hosts may look back on this game and potentially learn something from it if they so wish. These notes were already in the discord's spoiled chat, but discord servers don't last forever. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1615] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 20th, 2023 04:54 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Well played, everyone! It was fun playing here and glad Lumi suggested I join. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1616] Auteur : Marshmallow Marshall Date : March 20th, 2023 05:14 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Well played, everyone! It was fun playing here and glad Lumi suggested I join. I am glad this was your cup of tea. Cup. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/744452659884458125/1087529633655820288/image.png?width=311&height=478 HAHAHAHA. HAha. ha. ok -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1617] Auteur : Varcron Date : March 20th, 2023 09:35 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff GG Dead N1 again, forgot to post an LW cause I was too busy lmao -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1618] Auteur : deathworlds Date : March 20th, 2023 10:44 PM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff GG Dead N1 again, forgot to post an LW cause I was too busy lmao Claiming you were tailored only worked because of this LUL -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1619] Auteur : Wiml Date : March 21st, 2023 02:52 AM Title : Re: S-FM 348: Standoff Would not have won this game without the effort from Loldebite on D2 and D3. You did a great job, Deb. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-