Vault 103 - Aural Torture

[Stan]

Yep the theme of my vault is to be the FM GM's whipping boys. So far we've had vuvuzelas, justin beiber, and the Puddi Puddi song.

I'll log a summary of the day chats, and quote anything I find specifically relevant.

[Stan]

Day 1:

Chewbacca spent the day trying to convince us to "lynch somebody" but every time we discussed who, he'd point back at Greedo, possible executioner or it could be a ploy. I'm waiting on this one.

Leia seemed overly focused on getting power roles to claim, but backpedaled a bit once Mkoll started pointing out the holes in her plan though she never gave up entirely on it.

The others seemed fairly unsuspicious, king is still lurking though. He posted a grand total of one time. "So what's the plan?"

[Lando]

For the sake of completion:

Role List for Vault 103:

Hidden Brotherhood of Steel
Sheriff
Hidden NCR
Hidden NCR
Hidden NCR
Hidden NCR
Hidden Any
​Hidden Any
Hidden Any

---

Participants of Vault 103:

Chewbacca
Greedo
King
Larkin
Leia
Mkoll
Monica
Stan
Tebow

[Lando]

For my vault (103 - Me and King) I'm thinking we should have king role block Leia. I'm concerned she may be a member of the opposing team trying to get a feel for who is a power role in our vault. On the other hand there's the risk she is a serial killer, but I think its worth the risk. I also think I should fabricate a wasteland wanderer kill on Larkin or Tebow. Both seem competent town roles who didn't try to take on a terribly obvious position during day chat, whereas greedo, chewbacca, leia, and mkoll were fairly active.
I don't think an enemy Mafia fits into this setup. I expect the three Hidden Any to be BoS Wastlander Citizen. The Wastelander might be a killing role though.
A Brother of Steel member is confirmed anyway. So why not kill as Mafia? If there are two wasteland wanderer kill, they will pierce together pretty fast that there is a Fabricator in their Vault. I'd like to have you hidden for now. It could help you when claiming Vigilante or Jailor or something like that. Additionally when the players are reunited you can go nuts with the faking of kills, preferably Vigilante, because it draws suspicion to Roger who got a 2-shot Vigilante gun today.

[Stan]

What are your thoughts about having king roleblock leia?

[Lando]

If Leia is not Town, wouldn't it be better to leave her unblocked? Neutrals I can think of that would want information about the roles of other players: Witch, Ninja, Student, Soul Thief, Cult Leader, Ravager. And most of them are harmful to Town. So unless you expect to be targeted by Leia, maybe we should leave her unblocked. Hopefully you can kill the Sheriff night 1.

[Bragg]

I agree just kill as mafia. Fabricating isnt useful yet. Much better if you can fabricate vigi shots or gunsmith gunshots later.

If Mkoll seems like a smart fellow you could block him instead. Could you post more of the day chat so we can see who was talkative and who might have something to hide?

[Bragg]

sheriff pretending to be executioner is not unlikely btw so you might want to kill chewy

[Stan]

Unfortunately there were 82 posts so posting the entirety is going to be difficult, but I'll try and cut down some of the fat (Some people talked a lot for the sole purpose of getting off the vuvuzela page) and post what I can.

[Stan]

If you guys would be so kind, I'd like to see speculation on what you believe our particular role list might contain, in terms of neutrals, cits, mafias, PRs, etc.

Also, does this day go for 48 or 24 hrs?


Guess Mozilla gets muted every time I check this site. Oh well.

-vote Greedo

Seems like something a mafia would suggest to get an idea for what people's roles are.



Could be, but your early voting could also be a mafia trying to get a mislynch.

I am disappointed that the one single post thus far directed at getting something done has been met with a -vote. FM GM made it pretty clear that today isn't supposed to be a troll day just because there's been no night actions. We need to get something done and for that we need to get an appreciation of what kind of scum we're up against. Obviously we're facing an orange mafia member, but that's not necessarily the only threat in here so let's get talking about the game.

Anybody who trolls from now on will be met with suspicion. 24 hrs isn't long and we don't need you wasting our time.

@Chewbacca, if you truly intend to vote for me then your vote needs to be in cyan like this -vote

We might only be facing an orange mafia, Because there are 3 random Any's that could be red mafia, Orange mafia, Or ect. Just throwing that in there

Leia believes there is a serial killer and a graverobber because of the day 1 RP. Leia would have missed it if the FMGM didn't post all the RP's in one thread. The serial killer is the Lakeside Butcher!

There are probably some neutrals in here with us just based on probability? We can learn more later based on the KPN I think.

So, is there any logical way we can deduce who is in here with us? I mean, no night actions last night. Is the next step to pressure people into role claiming?
I mean, think about it - a role claim in the vault isn't going to have the same effect it does in a full game. The real question is how much a role claim in the vaults will make a difference once we all see each other.

What I'm trying to piece together:

There are 9 people in our vault and 48 players in the game (entirely possible i miscounted).

It tells us there is an orange mafia member in our vault. Yet, if we were to make an assumption that all vaults were roughly the same size, then you'd expect there to be 5 vaults maximum to spread 12 mafia over. That would seem to indicate that each vault should contain at least 2 mafia on average plus a neutral.

Does anybody else find it odd that the role-list would specify that an orange mafia member is present, but not indicate a red one is present. Surely that would be an advantage to a red mafia member, because he would know his opponent was here, whereas the orange member would be unaware. I suppose it's possible FM GM balanced it by having an opposing vault where a red mafia member is in the role list and an orange member is hiding.

However, for this reason, I'm inclined to suspect there are only orange mafia in this vault. Based on the number of scum that have to be accounted for across the vaults, I suspect there are either:
a) 2 orange mafia in here
OR
b) 1 orange mafia and a very powerful neutral

Does this sound like reasonable reasoning to you guys? Please post comments/ suggestions that agree/disagree with me. I honestly do think us talking through this stuff will be beneficial.

Stan can I get points for my RP analysis!

At this point I find Monica the most suspicious for saying we might only face the orange mafia. She is probably the serial killer who won't kill until we leave the vault to pretend like there is only orange mafia in here with us! What do people think of my analysis!

*in reference to Mkoll's last post*
I was thinking on this too and how if we were able to quickly and completely annihilate the scum from this vault we could all role-claim afterwards because we'd known there were no mafia left in here with us and we'd all have that secret information going into the big day. However, the problem I can't get past is how would we ever know the vault was clear of scum? Wiping out the mafia would be the most important step because we'd have to prevent them telling their buddies. However, neutrals could be dangerous too if they knew who was a power role (I'm thinking witches, etc).

For this reason unfortunately, I can't see how a mass role-claim will ever be viable in this vault. If anybody else sees a way though, enlighten me. I just can't figure out how to 100% know that our vault is secure.

Even if there were no kills, it doesn't rule out mafia deliberately abstaining, or using non killing powers. I suppose were we to lynch 2 mafia in a row and there was no indication of a powerful neutral in here with us, I'd be feeling pretty safe.

tl:dr: i think the less role-claims the better for now, unless there's a great reason to do it, or unless that person is facing a lynch and we're demanding they claim.

I just said that it might only be orange, but it could be others, I'm just trying to open the borders and see what we have to deal with here.

Further reasoning on why mass role-claims aren't useful:

The role list is extremely vague and ambiguous. Any individual player claiming will have pretty much 0 bearing on the validity of another player.

Unlike for example, where the setup was 5 cits, 1 doc, 1 sheriff, 2 mafiosos. In that situation role-claims could be counter-claimed.

What can you counter-claim in this vault?

"I'm the orange mafia!" "No, I'm the orange mafia!!"

Lol.

ok, what's the plan ?

Why would you discuss the possibility of a red mafia in the game? That doesn't help anyone at this junction aside from either trying to hint to the orange mafia that you are the red mafia and you don't want to die tonight, or trying get a rise out of the red mafia so you know who not to target. The fact that you're trying to metagame which mafia side has the advantage tells me that you're probably on one of them.

Then we have your whole "anyone trolling today will be met with suspicion" schtick. You know who the mafia usually vote to lynch? Trolls. It's the easiest target for mafia to attack while appearing because no one's going to step up to defend a troll. A real townie is more likely to attack someone without fear because they know they're town and they don't have to worry about a believable defense later in the game.

With that in mind, and in honor of my missing Han pal, I'm going to shoot first.

-vote Greedo

And Leia, if you're talking about the day 1 RP reference to Friday the 13th, that was just their attempt to make the real rp, Fallout, a surprise. That's why there were references to portals and stuff too before the game actually started.

Not saying there isn't a serial killer, because who knows, we have 0 information.

Also, as an incentive for nobody to lurk:

How do you guys feel about the idea that anybody who doesn't post adequately today (yet passes GM's anti-lurking system) OR anybody who consistently only trolls today faces severe accusation and pressure tomorrow.

If we can agree early that this will be our policy, there should be no excuse for anybody to violate it.

Lurking and trolling just gives scum a place to hide and in a small vault like this it is extremely counter to our cause.

Attacking lurkers and trolls just gives scum a place to hide.

*adding onto last post* Because I'm very keen to see people posting, I humbly request that if you're reading and can't think of anything much to say, could you post a response to my above quote. It doesn't have to be in depth, but it would be nice to hear a thought or two.

I'm not going to guess at the composition of roles as it serves nothing while giving the scum everything, like proclaiming in the day the possibility of a red mafia member. Who would have a reason to do that if they were town? If the orange mafia had not realized the possibility he could've accidentally killed him tonight. Instead, you've put the forth the possibility and now the orange mafia will be looking for clues as to who not to shoot tonight so that he can keep the KPN up.

Other than that you've contributed nothing other than the usual try-hard mafia stuff to put yourself in a position as town leader. The only thing I can conclude right now is that you're either a citizen or a mafia. And that's why my vote is to lynch you.

As to the lurker/troll question, their time will come when it needs to, but I find that mafia in big games like this are more likely to be the talkers than the lurkers. Especially when you're separated for the first few days and don't have buddies to protect you from a lynch.

Instituting a strict no lurker/no troll policy, on the other hand, greatly benefits the talking scum since it gives them an outlet to focus their energies while avoiding a lynch because the town's all caught up in killing the people they deem not active enough. I am not sure why any townie would ever be in favor of creating an environment that lets them flourish because it makes our job of scumhunting practically impossible.

Busy day for me.
+15 points to Greedo for the sheer amount of speculation and analysis
+10 points to Chewbacca for trying to get something done.
-5 points to king for being absolutely useless thus far
FMGM gets nothing because I fear they will continue the auditory torture.

The problem in short:
Night 0 had no actions, so any informatory roles have nothing to add.
Due to the role list for our particular vault (we have no way of knowing how similiar or disimiliar our vault is from the others) any role claims at this point would not be terribly useful.

In other words suspicions today are based on personal motives or outright guesses. We can either randomly execute someone today, or risk allowing everyone to live into the night and await the results for tomorrow.

There are 5 confirmed town, 1 confirmed orange mafia, and 3 Hidden Random Anys. That puts the odds at worst at 1/9 we hit a mafia member, at best (assuming the gm would not pack out a vault with mafia of the same color) 4/9 if there's 2 of each color which is extremely unlikely. At best the chances of hitting a town member are 5/9, and 1/9 of hitting the confirmed sheriff.

Suspicious activity:
Greedo seemed to be making a ploy to lure power roles into claiming early on.
Chewbacca jumped on voting greedo rather quickly.
Monica made only a vague pass at stating anything useful and hasn't really contributed since.
Leia is very into the RP, for what reason I cannot begin to speculate.
King has made 1 post, which was less than 6 words in length.

Not necessarily scummy, but suspicious in my view.


As to speculating on our role lists composition I've noticed a discrepancy between ours and the main list.

Is the Sheriff in our vault's role list necessarily a Sane Sheriff or could they be any of the sheriffs?

Now that's something actually useful.

Thanks Stan that was great.

Moar posts please @ everybody.

Morning everyone!
I may be mistaken, but I believe the sheriff in our vault might be any of the various sheriff alignments, or else I think the FMGM would have specified.

My thoughts about this game:
The vault acts like the Dreamer's role, telling us that there is for sure one orange mafia among the nine of us. I doubt that there is a dreamer in this setup because the vaults already give us much of the information we would get from the dreamer in the first place.

I also thought of a question about one of the role cards: Question: Does the Gypsy Lady's role reveal occur on the in-vault role list, or for the overall role list? If the Gypsy Lady guesses a role in another vault, can the role be revealed in another vault, and not necessarily in the vault the Gypsy Lady is in?

I think there is going to be too high a KPN in this vault if there is red mafia and orange mafia and a killing neutral hidden in the role list, so there probably isn't all three. Or possibly there is a red mafia role that would rather perform its specific night action instead of kill. We will have more information about this tomorrow!

For now, I will FOS Mkoll who posted a lot on the troll day 0, but now is very quiet and has contributed very little. Seems to me like he is scum trying to stay inconspicuous. I would like him, King and Tebow to contribute more. -vote Mkoll as a pressure vote. I am interested to see what he has to say in response to:

1. Why haven't you posted nearly as much today as you have yesterday?
2. What non-town roles would you speculate are present in this vault?
3. Should we lynch you today for acting suspicious?

If we semi-random lynch someone today and tomorrow, then I think that helps us since we can narrow down the list of people that includes the orange mafia. How would people feel about this? I think that a lynch gives us more information than no lynch.

Plan:
People claim if a. their role gives easily verifiable night feedback such as a role block, etc. or b. if their role does not give feedback. That way, a mafia consort would be forced to use their night action to role block instead of kill, thus helping the town avoid a kill if the consort wishes to remain "hidden".

We gather a list of the roles with no feedback and choose one of them to random lynch today. Tonight, the players with role feedbacks must use their actions and we see the corresponding claims tomorrow morning. Then, if the sheriff has found a guilty person, we can use that or any other gathered information to lynch. In the absence of other information, we can lynch another person whose role gives no feedback messages.

I think this gives us the most useful information out of any plan I could think of. What do other people think?

1. I haven't posted as much today as yesterday because I've been watching my nephew because my sister just went to jail
2. I'm a pessimist - having said that, I would assume the 1 orange mafia and at the very least 1 non-town killing role and 1 other neutral bringing the total composition to 6town 3 non-town. This is my idea of what would make a very interesting couple nights in the vault & Luna seems to be all about making things interesting so far.
3. Nothing I've done has been suspicious really, and asking me whether or not you should lynch me is ridiculous. What do you want me to say? lol. I personally don't like the odds of hitting town vs hitting non-town so as of right this second I don't think anyone should be lynched. However, if there is some evidence that points one way or the other in my eyes I will vote

What about you, Ms. Lurker? You've got 10 posts total and you've already learned enough to want to be casting suspicion on to other people.
1. Based on your posting pattern today (15 hours ago, 8 hours ago, 8 hours ago, 43 minutes ago 27 hours ago) you've been pretty lurky, especially considering the fact that you seem to have had the time to go through an analyze everything. Why is this?
2. You justify your FoS by saying it's because I posted a ton yesterday and not much today so that makes me suspicious. Why are you less suspicious because you have 7 total posts today? Pot calling the kettle black if you ask me.

Now, you're all about random lynching without any real justification.
Not only do you want a random lynch, but you want a soft role claim after FoSing me for doing something that you've done.
Tsk tsk tsk, are you new at this or something?

& even if we do this supposed soft role claim, how are we going to determine anything based on night actions with feedback?
Mafia in this game DO have potential to give normal feedback at night (drug dealer). How would we be able to be certain that any feedback given to anyone by anyone would be legit at all & not a drug effect? If we're looking for a roleblock to softly "prove someone's role" how do we know it's not consort?

The soft role claim acknowledges that some mafia roles DO have the potential to give normal feedback messages. In fact, it plays off of this, fact, so that a mafia member in this vault will be forced to use a non-killing night action in order to "claim" their town-sided role counterpart. This serves two purposes - to prevent mafia from killing and forcing them to use their action that gives feedback, and it lets us lock in potential mafia roles later down the line. i.e. if we happen to have two "escorts" in this vault, it would be extremely likely that one of them was actually a consort or a drug dealer. This gives us a lot more information than herp-derping around doing nothing.

Killing neutrals or other mafia members such as a mafioso will not have any actions they can perform that give feedback, so they will be candidates for the "random" lynch. In my opinion, even if we mistakenly lynch a sheriff that doesn't know his alignment, the chances for lynching killing scum is increased with my plan. Doesn't this make sense? We get people out of the way such as jailors, architects, bus drivers, escorts, etc with easily provable roles based on feedback and then random lynch based on whoever remains.

The way I am proposing, if you have a role that gives feedback, claim it in this thread before night begins. Tomorrow, if you were role blocked, etc. claim "given feedback" - do not differentiate whether or not you were role blocked, jailed, etc. If the numbers of "given feedback" claims match the numbers of "givers of feedback" claims, then we should consider those who claimed feedback givers "cleared" from being lynch targets. We would expect that the numbers of feedback claims should stay the same, forcing a drug dealer or consort to once again forefit their night action in order to provide a feedback message and avoid being lynched. If the number of feedback claims we expect do not match up with the numbers that actually come through, the feedback givers might then be asked to claim which messages they gave out to which players. The people who recieved feedback can confirm, and we can weed out people who falsely claimed they have roles that give out feedback.

imo, killing neutrals or a mafioso is screwed because he has no feedback messages to pretend to give out. He could pretend to give feedback to a mafia buddy in this vault, but again, this gives us important information that show connections between players.


In response to your FOS on me for being a "lurker", I am simply being consistent about my playstyle. I cannot post a lot during certain times of the day due to my schedule. (posting at work is generally frowned upon.) You, on the other hand, were very present on Day 0, spamming left and right. I was simply pointing out that I found it odd that you were lurking so much compared to Day 0 when you posted a significant amount. I found that this might mean you posted a lot on Day 0 in order to falsely inflate your post count so that you could lurk on later days without facing as severe repercussions as another lurky player such as King. Why do you FOS me, and not King? By your logic, King is even more "lurky" than I am. Your argument against me has no weight since I am not FOS'ing you for lurking today, I am FOS'ing your posting pattern of spam posting Day 0 and then switching to massive lurk today (until I called you out on it).

Why do you assume the sheriff here is sane?

Why do you assume there is a consort in here?

I think your plan has holes, a random lynch is more likely to end up worse for town.

What stops the mafia from claiming they get no feedback and just killing someone?

I do not assume the sheriff here is sane. If you read my earlier post, I assumed we should NOT assume the sheriff in this vault is sane just because the revealed sheriff on the large role list is sane.

I do not assume there is a consort in here, I was listing it as one of many possible mafia roles that would want to use their regular night action to WIFOM the townsided counterpart in order to give a feedback message. This mafia member would not be able to kill if they used their regular night action such as giving a role block.

I acknowledge that this plan has some holes, one being that a mayor cannot reveal himself until outside of the vault, and thus he does have a feedback message that he cannot yet reveal to clear himself. However, I believe that this plan can expose a lot of connections and information that we would otherwise not gain. A random lynch of people who do not give feedback is more likely to eliminate a killing neutral or a mafioso simply because it takes away town members such as a jailor or an architect who give feedback messages out of the pool of people who we are choosing a lynch target from.

I don't fully understand your last question, but if a mafia claims they did not recieve feedback when they did, if we lynch the person who said they gave the mafia member feedback, it will immediately be obvious that the person lied, therefore casting said mafia member under heightened suspicion.

Anybody who does not like my plan, please propose an alternative. It was after much thought that I devised this plan to provide us with the most useful information possible within the constraints of this vault. This is not to say that it would be the best plan, this is just the best I could think up. If there is a better plan, please share it.

I agree that a lynch would be preferable to a no-lynch, but I have my heart set on Greedo.

In regards to your plan, I don't really see the point of it. The whole point of everyone not claiming is to make the mafia unsure of who to kill. What you're suggesting is just an inferior version of a mass claim. I'm against a mass claim though for a couple reasons, 1) it's boring and defeats the purpose of the game, and 2) with the amount of hidden roles it won't do much, we'll just be sitting here with more cit claims than there actually are. And I wouldn't be surprised if at least a few of the real town power roles claimed citizen as well, so it's not like it'll accomplish much at this point.

But yeah, if we're going to kill anybody, I say it be Greedo.

Sorry I'm not good at coming up with plans, I usually get orders from my sergeant Mkoll and then criticise them until they make sense.

I admit I didn't read the long post you posted right before mine, and it answers most of my questions.

Your plan could give us valuable info, I'm just not a fan of the random voting. Town power roles may want to hide as citizens and lynching them would kind of suck. That's all.

You seem extremely bent on wanting to lynch Greedo, Either there is something I'm missing, Or your an Executioner wanting to vote Greedo? But i could be missing something i guess.

I see a few holes in the plan also, But we don't have to random lynch, We could always pressure people into saying their roles and use that for the big meet later once we hit day 4.

My plan would encourage mafia members who can fake town-sided role counterparts to fake town-sided role counterparts and bypass night kills.

You want to random lynch Greedo. If he claims to have a role, proveable via feedback message results, then wouldn't we naturally want to lynch someone else that does not have a role softly proveable via feedback messages? Yes, a consort or a drug dealer for example can fake being an escort, but this plan forces those types of roles to use their actions instead of killing while they are inside the vault. Basically if Greedo claims "hey I'm jailor, I can prove it tonight" then wouldn't we naturally move to the next lynch target?

The plan I proposed is a means of hiding exact roles from the mafia instead of forcing specific people put on the spot to claim. It also helps expedite our focus for day lynches by completely eliminating people with "proveable" roles from our pool of possible lynches.

If people are generally not on board with the plan (it seems they are not), then we do not have to go through with it. I was trying to offer an alternative to a purely random lynch and offer some direction and organization with which we could proceed.

I would like to hear at least a couple more opinions on the plan before we fully decide to scrap it. If they are also negative opinions, I pass the burden of coming up with our collective vault plan onto the rest of you.

Is the Sheriff in our vault's role list necessarily a Sane Sheriff or could they be any of the sheriffs?
He can be any Sheriff variant, the role list just confirms that someone received the Sheriff role card in this vault

Does the Gypsy Lady's role reveal occur on the in-vault role list, or for the overall role list? If the Gypsy Lady guesses a role in another vault, can the role be revealed in another vault, and not necessarily in the vault the Gypsy Lady is in?
The Gypsy Lady's current night actions are restricted to the vault - if she can guess a role which is in the vault, it will appear in the overall roles list. If a role is in another vault but not in this one and she guesses it, her night action will be unsuccessful.

Going to ignore Chewbacca for now lest I die of laughter.

@Leia, your plan certainly isn't without merit and I for one can appreciate that you've put a lot of thought into it. What I do like about it is it forces the scum to lie, or risk exposure and wherever we can force them to tell a lie that's a great thing because if we can expose the lie we can expose them. So that's definitely a +

I suppose the most obvious negatives come from the fact that we are in turn handing over a ton of information to the scum, the mafia of which can then pass straight on to their compatriots. If we do go with the plan, we're essentially splitting ourselves into 1) a group of citizens + PRs and 2) a group of pure PRs. This makes me quite reluctant because a common mafia philosophy is simply that it's good to hit any PR, no matter what type they are. Unfortunately, this could pose huge dangers to the group of pure PRs (the group that says they give feedback) for the rest of the game.

The second negative is that unfortunately there's no way to guarantee every townie will be compliant to this sort of a plan. It's entirely possible that a bus driver/escort/ gunsmith kind of role may be entirely unwilling to lump themselves in the confirmed PR group and instead jump themselves into the no feedback group. This would make interpreting things a nightmare for us, and also put the PRs who did tell the truth in even more danger because there'll be an even smaller group of them.

Even if we don't end up putting a plan into action I really appreciate people taking the time and effort to come up with an idea that may be useful so thanks Leia.

Tebow and King are still yet to post a single line here.

Just got off work so I should be able to post more now and until the end of day when I go to sleep.

I guess I just feel like when we push for a lynch, a PR will end up revealing to avoid getting lynched. It seems silly and inefficient for us to go through the whole FOS to lynch train process on one candidate only to have them reveal as a confirmable PR role, because that exposes them just as much. In any case, I have some other ideas, too, that I believe can help us either immediately or in the long run.




Tonight, make sure to update your last will with some silly phrase so a sleuth/dirty sleuth will be able to role claim by quoting your last will if they are getting lynched tomorrow.

In case of a disguiser outside the vault, I believe we should come up with groupwide disguiser checks to perform outside of the vault if there is a cleaned corpse presented at the beginning of day. If there is only orange mafia in this vault, then at least it would be a valid disguiser check against red mafia. If red and orange mafia are in this vault, that would be other good information to learn later if someone passes the disguiser check yet we suspect them of being disguised as. We should discuss this on day 2 because there is the possibility of lynching mafia tomorrow or having mafia die at night.

I'm sure these ideas can be met with more enthusiasm. I am disappointed that more people do not want a lynch, because it is the town's big way of obtaining information.

Is anyone else disturbed by Mkoll's behavior? He made many posts yesterday to spam to increase his post count so he can contribute minimally today and then accuse others of lurking when he has contributed much less on Day 1. In my opinion, if we random lynch anybody, we should lynch Mkoll both for his scummy posting patterns and more importantly his using his post count as leverage with his accusation against me. I find his reasoning for finding me suspicious very suspicious.

Let's analyze this again, for those of you who haven't been keeping up to date. I'm really disappointed that more people didn't post while I was at work. I fully expected everyone to come online and participate in the discussion of my proposal so we could have more discussion in the evening until day ends.

Originally Posted by Mkoll
3. Nothing I've done has been suspicious really, and asking me whether or not you should lynch me is ridiculous. What do you want me to say? lol. I personally don't like the odds of hitting town vs hitting non-town so as of right this second I don't think anyone should be lynched. However, if there is some evidence that points one way or the other in my eyes I will vote
Mkoll's counter to me saying he is suspicious for mass spam posting on Day 0 and lurking today in a perceived attempt to hide as scum is that "Nothing I've done has been suspicious really". Ok. You counter my FOS on your posting habits with a non-responsive answer. That does nothing to convince me of your innocence. Either scum or a person terrible at argumentation.

He "doesn't like the odds of hitting town vs. non town" which is understandable. I agree with this statement but would add that in a completely random lynch yes completely. However in a scumhunted lynch, even with only Day 0 and Day 1 chat information to go off of, the odds of hitting non town is presumably increased based on suspicious behavior that town has to go off of. What type of behavior is more suspicious than a player who spam posts on Day 0 and then flips 180 degrees and posts minimally on Day 1 until FOS'ed and prodded.

What about you, Ms. Lurker? You've got 10 posts total and you've already learned enough to want to be casting suspicion on to other people.
1. Based on your posting pattern today (15 hours ago, 8 hours ago, 8 hours ago, 43 minutes ago 27 hours ago) you've been pretty lurky, especially considering the fact that you seem to have had the time to go through an analyze everything. Why is this?
He a. asserts that I have been lurky, when in fact, his own post count and content for today has not been much better. If anything, I take his accusation of myself as a lurker as a self accusation of lurking via transitive property. He asks why I have been lurking. I had not much to say until I thought up my plan and found a scummy target to FOS.

2. You justify your FoS by saying it's because I posted a ton yesterday and not much today so that makes me suspicious. Why are you less suspicious because you have 7 total posts today? Pot calling the kettle black if you ask me.
How is this situation the pot calling the kettle black? Far from it. Let me break it down for you. Mkoll spam posts to get his post count into the high/mid 20's on Day 0. Mkoll posts a total of 4 posts today. Leia posts around 5 posts yesterday, and increases participation today since we have been given our roles and it is no longer troll day. Mkoll describing this situation as "the pot calling the kettle black" is highly misinformed and slanderous. I called him out not simply for his lurking today, but his combined lurking mixed with his extremely high post count on Day 0. Honestly, Stan also falls into this category, but he has been more active than Mkoll, so I ignored Stan for now to focus on pressuring Mkoll. If Mkoll does not understand the source of my FOS, we should dispose of him for having a scummy behavior, being terrible at responding to arguments, and doing little to defend himself.

1. I haven't posted as much today as yesterday because I've been watching my nephew because my sister just went to jail
Furthermore, he tries to appeal to emotion as to why he could not post more by sharing a story of his sister going to jail. He tries to leverage our emotions to let him get away with his scummy posting behaviour.

I explained myself already.
Get off my nuts pls.
Kthx.

BTW you never accused me of trying "hide the fact that I'm scum." Naturally, I wouldn't have been able to refute it if you hadn't accused me of it in the first place. I gave you a valid explanation of the variation in post count between yesterday and today, if you can't accept that then so be it.

It's already 19:45. We have until 1:00 to make a lynch. Leia is doubtful we will accomplish anything further today even though we still have 5 more hours.

What is lurk?
I am not larkin
not larkin
no more

Hallo town. I have successfully put my account to 5 posts per page , and now that my ears are not being bombarded by vuvuzelas, I will happily join in the discussion.
I agree with leia's plan. The soft role claims will help town gather information about the other players in the vault. These role claims will NOT help the mafia because the high majority of people (and possibly every single person) either is scum with an action or a town PR. The role list of the vault already confirms pretty much every one of us as a PR. The mafia already have AT THE VERY LEAST a 5/8 chance to hit a town PR. If one of the random anys is an orange mafia, they have at least a 5/7 chance.

Odds are, PRs will die.

I like the idea of making scum claim if they have feedback because it gives us information on people in the game. Scum will be held accountable for their night actions, and it will prevent them from doing the night actions that they might want because they will be forced to make night actions that appear town.

However, I disagree that people should claim when they received feedback. We should use these claims to confirm people's roles, after they have claimed themselves. Simply looking at the number of feedback messages received is not really very helpful because there are roles that will cause more or less messages to occur. Bus drivers, kidnappers, and architects will inflate the feedback number, a jailor could cause people to not receive feedback even if they were targeted. A person could be killed the same night they were targeted by a feedback-giving role. Roles such as the whore do not have a steady feedback count at all. Medical students will not know they give feedback and mess up the feedback number. Gunsmiths may choose not to give out guns. Feedback giving roles can be roleblocked by others.

tl;dr feedback messages should be used to confirm peoples role after the people who give feedback messages claim. We may want to do a vault mass claim day 3, especially if we lynch a mafia before then.

About the pressure for tomorrow: If we pressure one of the people who claimed to not give feedback, we will have a much higher success rate in lynching scum.
With sheer numbers alone, town PRs are more likely to give feedback than mafia PRs:
A LIST OF ROLES THAT GIVE FEEDBACK:

Possible Mafia Roles: Godfather, Consigliere, Mafioso, Framer, Consort, Blackmailer, Janitor, Disguiser, Interceptor, Grave Robber, Kidnapper, Lawyer, Ventriloquist, Fabricator, Actress, Drug Dealer, Dirty Sleuth
3 out of 17 roles of the mafia give claimable feedback (blackmailer does not count because that is not feedback that town will give - the blackmailer would not be wise to claim that he gives feedback.) 14 of 17 do not. It is therefore much more likely that the mafia will be in the group of people that do not have a feedback message.

Possible Hidden Town Roles: Citizen, Sheriff, Mayor, Detective, Lookout, Bus Driver, Doctor, Escort, Coroner, Journalist, Jailor, Veteran, Vigilante, Whore, Armoursmith, Gunsmith, Mortician, Naive/Paranoid/Insane Sheriff, Spy, Watchman, Sex Toy Manufacturer, Enchantress, Hitman, Bodyguard, Architect, Saboteur, Gypsy Lady, Dreamer, Medical Student, Traumatised Surgeon, Sleuth, Mason Assassin, Mason Enforcer
Out of the 33 town roles, 13 give feedback. It is more likely for a feedback giving role to be town than mafia.

Possible Hidden Neutral Roles: Jester, Executioner, Student, Amnesiac, Ghost, Survivor, Ninja, Witch, Corrupt Journalist, Soul Thief, Arms Dealer, Cult Leader, Chairman, Serial Killer, Arsonist, Devourer, Spree Killer, Ravager
Out of the 17 neutral roles, 3 can claim to give feedback - again, only a small minority of the roles will be in the group of people that claim to give feedback.

When pressured, some of the town roles that do not give feedback can clear themselves, and some give us information about others in the vault:
Possible Hidden Town Roles: Citizen, Sheriff, Mayor, Detective, Lookout, Doctor, Coroner, Veteran, Vigilante, Mortician, Naive/Paranoid/Insane Sheriff, Spy, Watchman, Bodyguard, Saboteur, Gypsy Lady, Dreamer, Medical Student, Traumatised Surgeon, Sleuth
8 of the 20 town roles that can be pressured can possibly confirm their roles. It is therefore very unlikely that we will mislynch a town role if we follow leia's plan, especially with the information gotten by PRs in the night.

I do not believe we will get a list of these roles to claim today however. The pressuring will most likely have to start tomorrow, when we have a night's worth of actions to give us more information.

Hey guys, before day ends, what do you say we kill Greedo?

I think you're exec WIFOMing non exec.
Just a feeling.

FM GM has assured me that Hidden NCR may include Citizen, which I think considerably distort these odds you've calculated. Something to bear in mind.

*longest forum post ever*

[Stan]

Incase anyone is curious that post is just shy of 7000 words.

[FM Ferengi]

you forgot my important post... would you like me to add it in for you?

[Forum Mafia GM]

Through the crackle of Stan's radio, you can hear background noise.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kffacxfA7G4

[King]

yes please do Roxy

Also, who would you like me to role block boss? I'm still unsure how to do that ?

who will we be voting up?

[King]

also guys I was interviewed for the radio, here is my reply Thank you Foxy Roxy for inviting me to your studio
First I’d like to say hello to everyone back home, they are all fans and just adore your sexy voice!
I’d like to start by saying how much it’s a pleasure being here. I must admit that I am out of my depth and as my good old grampa would say, it’s better to keep one’s consult than to appear as an idiot. Haha

That said I must say Roxy that I’m still trying to figure out how everything works. There are so many started threads and at times, they are not open for comment. The comment I made in the vault was actually a test. Being a SC2 mafia fan I almost expected things to unfold in a similar way but the complexity of the Mafia forum combined with the numbers of players clearly makes this a forum for seasoned veteran.
Question 1:

What do you consider to be the pros and cons of being placed in a small vault temporarily?
Well the vault made things interesting as you can get answers, or even have some topics clarified but at the same time, being completely knew to this experience I wasn’t sure how to properly use it. As you also know, I was confused when people started to get their roles and I didn’t have mine. I guess gramps will be calling me an idiot after all haha
Question 2:

Do you have any opinions on the Chewbacca-Greedo relationship?
Good question Roxy, as I have said, this isn’t your standard SC2Mafia game and therefore, I try not to have an opinion. That said I try to keep an open mind to the very few strategy I,ve observed in SC2, they could be evil on the same team trying to influence the players. Yes they may lose one player but granting a lot of credibility to the remaining one. The thought of jester look also comes to mind. I guess everyone will have a different take on what’s really going on and we’ll definitively keep an eye on what transpires between those two.
Question 3:

What is your opinion on Leia's plan?
Again, this is a touchy subject because I feel we don’t have enough information to make a valid hypothesis but I personally think she could have done without making the obvious relation to Star Wars. I’m sure the Star Wars fans were excited and perhaps this will prove to be helpful in gaining sympathy from her much love character.
Question 4:

Who do you find to be the most suspicious person, and why?
Well right now pretty much everyone is suspicious. Those that are not talking are suspicious but could also just be adjusting to the game. On the other hand, being that the game is so young, I also have to wonder about those that have so much to say. It was normal I think to have a slow start and I was taken aback of the amount of people that actually had something to say even tho much of it seemed useless in the greater scheme of things. Again, keeping an open mind, everyone is highly suspicious at this point and I would hate to influence wrongly the people I count on to win this game

Question 5:

Who do you find to be the most trustworthy person, and why?
That is an easy question Roxy, apart from me, I would have to say it’s you. We have come to depend on your information and the way you keep in touch with your community is a monument to your commitment.

Again Roxy I must thank you for having me in your studio. It is very enlighten to see where it all happens. Good luck to all of the players and thank you for delivering the news the way you do

[Stan]

OH DEAR GOD NOT MORE.
*goes insane*

[Stan]

Personally I'd like to leave Chewbacca and Greedo alone *for the moment* incase he really is an executioner, if only to keep the pressure off me and king.

[Lando]

When reading this it does indeed sound like a new player. There are some points I find strange/suspicious, when reading it:

You dodge an awful lot of questions:
-Question 1: No real answer. pro: interesting con: dunno what to do
-Question 2: For a SC2Mafia player you don't mention the very obvious possibility of an Executioner. But yeah, you answered this one. :)
-Question 3: Not enough information to say anything - saying nothing
-Question 4: Everyone is suspicious - no real answer
-Question 5: Not answered as intended - giving no answer

This could play out very well for you. They will likely label you incompetent and hopefully leave you be. They might also ask you to role claim. Or they will try to free-lynch you. You are walking a thin line there.

The others should comment on it, too.

[Lando]

Personally I'd like to leave Chewbacca and Greedo alone *for the moment* incase he really is an executioner, if only to keep the pressure off me and king.
Chewbacca gives off a "too obvious" feel to be an Executioner. He is more likely to flip Town (Citizen->Town PR->Exe or Town PR->Exe) than Neutral in my opinion. And killing Chewbacca increases the pressure on Greedo, regardless of what Chewbacca flips.
The question is - can we wait until night 2 to kill Chewbacca? I think the opportunity to frame Greedo with it will be gone. If Chewbacca is a Detective, the main threat to Greedo stems from the night 1 investigation. There is no hurry to kill a Sheriff as he needs a minimum of two nights to get anything. And he might shift away from Greedo in the day 2 chat lowering any pressure it might put on Greedo.
If not Chewbacca, who would you suggest?


Also, who would you like me to role block boss? I'm still unsure how to do that ?
Blocking Mkoll sounds good to me as he stand in opposition to Leia, who advocates the soft claiming, and may keep the block hidden for now. It should give you bonus points with Leia, too.

[Vick]

Aw come on Luna, in here? D=

You fiend!

[Vick]

King if I were you, I would rethink your answers to questions 4 and 5. Even just choosing pandering answers would be better than the non-answers you have up there right now. Since you're trying to come off as a new player, if your reads don't look that good they could hopefully just write it off as you being an unskilled player.

If I were in the town's shoes and saw your answers in the state they are now... I'd freelynch you without a second thought.

[Stan]

Chewbacca gives off a "too obvious" feel to be an Executioner. He is more likely to flip Town (Citizen->Town PR->Exe or Town PR->Exe) than Neutral in my opinion. And killing Chewbacca increases the pressure on Greedo, regardless of what Chewbacca flips.
The question is - can we wait until night 2 to kill Chewbacca? I think the opportunity to frame Greedo with it will be gone. If Chewbacca is a Detective, the main threat to Greedo stems from the night 1 investigation. There is no hurry to kill a Sheriff as he needs a minimum of two nights to get anything. And he might shift away from Greedo in the day 2 chat lowering any pressure it might put on Greedo.
If not Chewbacca, who would you suggest?


Blocking Mkoll sounds good to me as he stand in opposition to Leia, who advocates the soft claiming, and may keep the block hidden for now. It should give you bonus points with Leia, too.

I'm always suspicious of people who I feel are purposely lurking. I'll go with Chewbacca tonight since you make a good argument, but I'm going to keep an eye on Larkin, Monica, and Tebow especially.

[Bragg]

Vick is right. A freelynch on a lurking newb or fake newb is beneficial either way. It would help your case if you had a stronger opinion on questions 4 and 5.

[Tarkin]

Chewie and Leia seem very town. I doubt Chewie is an executioner, he plays like I sometimes play PR by picking my best bet at scum and focusing on them. Then scum will leave me alone if I'm wrong to distract town and because I look like a scum hunting cit or leave me alone if I'm right because they'll be suspicious if I die. Either one would be good kills. Chewie especially if you want to risk him being healed. Killing the town leader leaves town without direction and they won't get as much done.

I'm pretty sure Larkin is scum, maybe even the neutral killer. Typical scum play from him imo.

[Lando]

As King is not there, I'd like to discuss the role-block a little bit.
Mkoll didn't take a strong standing point as town. So role-blocking him should be fine from Town view. Plus it's buddying with Leia. Any ideas for other overall good targets?

[Bragg]

Let's roll with Mkoll for now. I'm about to leave and I doubt King will come back on time to submit an action.

The second night's roleblock warrants more discussion.

[King]

the only thing for sure is Greeco claimed Detective and said he saw Stan visit Chewbacca who died last night. Stan got lynch today. I'm likely next although I'm playing the idiot claiming citz. Greeco will push to have me lynch either way.

I agree that Leia is likely a neutral, maybe witch I would think. Tebow is the one that worries me the most. He doesn't speak much but seems on the ball.

Mkoll I would guess might be bus driver.

[Bragg]

Thanks for the info. Why do you think Mkoll is bus driver?

Quoting the most important posts would still be helpful.

[King]

FM master posted Chewbacca last will

Originally Posted by Chewbacca
Decided to sabotage Greedo tonight. If there's multiple deaths then he's cleared since my sabotage would've occured before his kill. If there's only one death though he could still be mafia that didn't target anyone though.

Other than him Larkin and Mkoll stuck out to me as being the scummiest, in that order. So we'll see what happens. King's probably just a bored citizen so I wouldn't worry too much about lynching him.

If I had to take a shot in the dark, this would be my imagined roles list:

Hidden Brotherhood of Steel - Greedo
Sheriff - Stan
Hidden NCR - King
Hidden NCR - Tebow
Hidden NCR - Leia
Hidden NCR - Chewbacca
Hidden Any - Larkin
Hidden Any - Mkoll
Hidden Any - Monica

[King]

I have no fact just a felling by the way she talks to me. I was bussed and I suspect it may of been her. the only confirmed role seems to be Greeco claim of detective



Thanks for the info. Why do you think Mkoll is bus driver?

Quoting the most important posts would still be helpful.

[King]

Leia post 2/3 into the day

Thank you Tebow, for your nice list.
Originally Posted by Tebow
Night feedback claimed:
Journalist/Corrupt Journalist (confirmed in Day 2 Post)
Witch (confirmed by Stan)
Bus Driver/Kidnapper (confirmed by King)
Other PR role (confirmed by Leia)
(Escort/Consort? - If the "and had a ton of fun" part of king's claim means escort blocked. @ King were the two parts of your message separate or together?)

Players who claim to give feedback:
Leia

Does not cause feedback
Greedo - Detective
Tebow - ???
Stan - ???
King - Citizen?
Monica - ???

Unclaimed - Mkoll, Lurkin (where DID that guy go?)
As you can see, there is an inconsistency here. If Mkoll and Larkin both have roles that give night feedback, then at most we have three roles that give night feedback. That means, I highly DOUBT we have a escort/consort, and either Leia, King, or Stan is lying about recieving a night feedback. (OR one of the players who claimed not to give feedback was lying). Keep in mind that a witch would likely not claim to give feedback, since it is a bad feedback that they would not wish to claim.

I find this inconclusive. Mkoll and Larkin should participate in the soft role claim when they come online next.

Moving down to the list of players that do not give feedback:
-I think the sheriff should reveal. We can see if anyone CC's. If there are no CC's then that one person is confirmed town. We can follow the sheriff's lead. There is no guarantee that the sheriff is sane/insane/naieve/paranoid... I think if the sheriff has checked any of the non-feedback giving players, we should lynch whoever the sheriff checked, so the sheriff can further narrow down their possible alignment.

-Greedo: To confirm Greedo's role, I think the journalist/corrupt journalist should claim and Greedo should target him. Even if the journalist dies at night, the interviewed target will be able to confirm Greedo's detective claim, thus clearing one more person.

-As soon as we hear the last two claims (Mkoll and Larkin), Mkoll, Leia, Larkin, and the sheriff can be confirmed as NOT killers. Greedo can easily be cleared tonight if he is detective, leaving Tebow, Stan, King, and Monica as the last four unproven roles (one is sheriff). Lynch one today, lynch one tomorrow, based on scum tells, and we will be able to narrow down a list of trustworthy people. There will be one last unproven role going out of the vault.

[Bragg]

So you have a journalist? Can you copy the article in here?

[Bragg]

What? You claimed roleblocked?

What was your reply to this question?

(Escort/Consort? - If the "and had a ton of fun" part of king's claim means escort blocked. @ King were the two parts of your message separate or together?)

[Bragg]

I'd also like to see Greedo's claim.

By the way... from the bus driver rolecard:

Pertinent rulings: Your targets will be notified that they have been bus driven. Bus Driver cannot target self. If manipulated by a Witch, your first target specified (Target A) will be the target chosen by the Witch.

You were sent to roleblock Mkoll. Since he couldn't have switched himself with you, he can't be the bus driver.

It's not entirely impossible that you were drugged instead of bus driven, although I wouldn't expect that to be the case unless your vault also has 2 red mafia in it. There's no way anyone would choose drugging over a bus driving drug.

[Bragg]

correction: There's no way anyone would choose bus driving drugs over a night kill

[King]

no articles yet, maybe tomorrow, and no I claimed that I was bussed, which I was, they also think I am citz so I let them not claiming anything

my next post contains the important post

[King]

Tebow claims a role which does not give feedback at night.

-Greeco post
I may as well just come out and say it as these days appear to be too short for me to beat around the bush. I am the Detective and I followed Stan last night. He visited and presumably killed Chewbacca.

-vote Stan

I'll hopefully be home in about 4 hrs to join the discussion properly. I've only had the time to skim the day chat and intro paragraph so far but when I get home you'll have my full attention.

Bad luck Stan, I guess I'm just a pro(de)tective.

First list made by Tebow
-tebow post
Well, I guess I will start a list:
Causes feedback
Witch?
Bus Driver/Kidnapper?
(Escort/Consort? - If the "and had a ton of fun" part of king's claim means escort blocked. @ King were the two parts of your message separate or together?)

Does not cause feedback
Greedo - Detective
Tebow - ???
Stan - ???
King - Citizen?

Unclaimed - Monica, Mkoll, Leia, Lurkin (where DID that guy go?)

-Monica reply My role doesn't give feedback.

-Leia post
Lol. So only I claim to give out feedback.........

Interesting indeed. In any case, I feel 95% sure I can confirm the presence of an arms dealer. I received armor last night, and since nobody has claimed to have given it to me, perhaps it is the armorsmith trying to hide... But I think it's more likely that it was an arms dealer simply because of the presence of a saboteur in this vault. Undoubtedly the FM Game Master put a saboteur and the arms dealer in the same vault so that they could meet up to go KABOOM in the night/all those other juicy role interactions. In any case, at least this protects me, your beautiful journalist/corrupt journalist Princess Leia.

Another scenario is that it was a drug dealer that drugged me and didn't want to claim in the event that I am attacked and the armor does not protect me.... No idea. Still inclined to believe it is an arms dealer though.

Leia confirms presence of: armorsmith/arms dealer/drug dealer


----

Regarding disguiser checks, I agree, that is a topic to be discussed tomorrow. It is beneficial even if there is orange mafia in the vault because orange mafia would want to find and eliminate a red mafia disguiser as much as we would.

Got some ideas for that though.

-Monica post
Well if were confirming roles of what we were visited by.
My soul was stolen last night. At least, i think so, I'm still a little confused on what happened last night.
-Tebow post
second list So based on claims so far, we have in our vault:


Witch (Stan's claim) - Random any #1
Soul Thief / Drug Dealer (Monica's claim)- Random any #2
Bus Driver / Kidnapper / Drug dealer? (King's claim) - Hidden town #1 OR Random any #3
Armorsmith / Arms Dealer / Drug Dealer (Leia's claim) - Hidden Town #1/2 or Random Any #3
+1 feedback giving role that visited whichever one of me or Larkin that did not get bus drivin (Larkin's + Tebow's claims) - Hidden Town #2/3 OR Random Any #3

Non-Feedback Giving roles:
Mafia killing role (Chewbacca was killed last night) - Hidden Mafia
Detective (Greedo's claim) - Hidden Town #3 OR Random any #3
Sheriff (Confirmed in role list)
Citizen (King's claim) - Hidden Town #3

- One of these roles does not exist. One person is lying in their feedback claim or role claim.
- If king is lying about his claim or he was drugged, there is one more feedback giving role that is not bus driver.
- Assuming all feedback claims are true, at least 2 or the random towns must be in the top half of the list

But anyways, the point is, to king - If you are really citizen, then either Stan is confirmed scum or someone is lying about their claims. Since you seem to believe Stan to not be scum, answer this: Who do you think is lying in their feedback claim if it is not stan or yourself?













-Larkin post
Originally Posted by Stan
I'm confused by king believing I was sheriff after I specifically claimed I wasn't.

Very well, role claim time. I am ze Escort I claimed no confirmable night feedback because I was planning on claiming citizen for now, obviously I can't afford that anymore. My original target last night was supposed to be Mkoll, which was mostly a random choice. I didn't claim this earlier because 1. it makes me a target for the mafia who would not want a roleblocker around, and 2. there's no way, short of the sheriff, to confirm whether or not I am indeed the escort and not the consort. I was witched, so I'm not sure who exactly I role blocked last night and I cannot defend against Greedo's claim that I visited chewbacca.
I was roleblocked, and Mkoll didn't mention receiving any feedback.

So I think there are 2 possibilities:

1) Stan is the escort and was witched to target me instead of Mkoll. Greedo is lying.

2) Stan is the consort who killed chewbacca and there is a second Escort in town who blocked me. Greedo is telling the truth.

If no other escort speaks up I will believe that Stan is telling the truth and that Greedo is lying.

-Mkoll post
Originally Posted by Larkin
I was roleblocked, and Mkoll didn't mention receiving any feedback.

So I think there are 2 possibilities:

1) Stan is the escort and was witched to target me instead of Mkoll. Greedo is lying.

2) Stan is the consort who killed chewbacca and there is a second Escort in town who blocked me. Greedo is telling the truth.

If no other escort speaks up I will believe that Stan is telling the truth and that Greedo is lying.
Originally Posted by Tebow
I was as well role blocked.
Originally Posted by Larkin
For the feedback list: I did not give out any feedback last night but boy did i receive...

Greedo is not the killing mafia since the saboteur didn't kill him, and if he was an executioner I think Stan's defence would have been more aggressive. Now he is just trying to find some excuse that doesn't discredit Greedo and still makes Stan look innocent.

Since he only needs 2 more votes I'll wait until he gets a chance to defend himself.

On another note, does anyone have suggestions for disguiser checks that was suggested earlier?
We shouldn't decide specifics until we know if Stan is mafia or not, I just don't want the idea to be forgotten.
You gonna flip flop again, Larkin? Gonna start calling you Mit fucking Romney.
Mit Romney is scummy.
You're scummy.

Look at this. You said you were suspicious of Stan and that he would probably try to make some excuse which makes him look innocent. He did so and you were so quick to just take his word for it.
Can we get a remix of the derp song and replace the lyrics with "SCUM"?

-Leia post
IMO, lynch Stan today for not claiming he gives feedback. This is anti town and pro scum move because it would allow escort/consort to perform night kills. I will vote Stan before the end of the day.

I find myself distrusting both Monica and Larkin because their posts don't seem like town trying to scumhunt.
Monica, if your soul was stolen, can you claim your role before you were soul stolen? Do you continue to stand by your soul stolen claim?
Larkin, why are you so quick to defend Stan? What do you think about the huge mass of feedback messages, especially pertaining to role blocks that you are wrapped up in? Why should we not lynch you next?

-Greeco post
Given the likelihood that King and Stan are on the same team and that we can only kill one of them, any escort should absolutely not claim today. In fact, nobody should claim until we can be assured we can kill King too. Because right now you can be guaranteed 100% this day-chat is going straight to the orange mafia tonight.

-Leia post
Due to the possibility of puppets we need more than just a hammer. Possibly Greedo is the red mafia puppet. Greedo I request that you follow me tonight to prove your role. Journalist/corrupt journalist cannot be witched or roleblocked except by a jailor.

Whoever I interview may simply post "12345" if they like and I would not yell at them. We can use my role to prove the detectives role beyond a doubt. If the interview target wishes to write an article that's fine too, but be sure not to give obvious clues that will let Greedo know your identity.


hope this helps... there is 8 pages but lots is just repeating over, this is the jest of things

[Bragg]

Journalist/Corrupt Journalist (confirmed in Day 2 Post)

It says the journalist is confirmed in the opening post of day 2 because there's an article. Day 2 was today? Please check again.

Leia is claiming journalist, so that's probably what she is.

Also, please copy-paste everything you said. Especially your answers to the questions they asked you (you did answer them, right?) and their reactions to that.

I don't think claiming citizen is a smart move. You really should've claimed escort before Stan did. If he hasn't already, the sheriff in your vault will check you now and if he is a type of sheriff that can tell the difference between suspicious and innocent, you're dead meat even if you don't visit someone.

In my opinion the only chance you're going to save your own skin for another day is if you manage to roleblock the real escort and convince the town that you blocked Tebow night 1 and the escort night 2. Claiming citizen as an escort in this situation could actually be pretty smart if you wanted to avoid being found by the mafia (though for that it's important to know when you claimed cit and when the night result claims were made). On the other hand, you defending Stan as an escort who blocked Tebow makes no sense and you're likely to get roleblocked yourself as well I suppose..

If there's not much of a chance for you to avoid getting lynched, we could as well try to let you kill someone to take them down with you.

[Lando]

If you want a quick way to copy all the day chat, though not nicely formatted, scroll down the current page and click the Archive link. Navigate to your Vault chat and copy everything in one go. Remember to remove any links (to videos)! Paste everything into one spoiler, post it and you are done.

[Forum Mafia GM]

If you want a quick way to copy all the day chat, though not nicely formatted, scroll down the current page and click the Archive link. Navigate to your Vault chat and copy everything in one go. Remember to remove any links (to videos)! Paste everything into one spoiler, post it and you are done.

Video links are now okay - if someone uses videos to scumhunt then they'll be disappointed. Also who would feel the need to lie about videos? xD

The former security concern about this has been lifted.

[Lando]

King, please post the whole thing from the Archives. I have no idea, if you even have a chance to get away for another day without dying or if you will be dead anyway - thus better going for a kill. Stan claiming your role-block fucked you up to claim Escort. He should have claimed to have targeted anyone else (as he claimed witched). It looks really grim in here.
The kill on our intended target (Chewbacca) went through. So I suppose he wasn't really witched.

Chances that you get away seem to be to none. I guess killing is in order...

[King]

Okay I will post the full two days in the next hour

[Vick]

Damnit. Stan had been doing so well too. Hate it when a PR just gets lucky.

[Lando]

I'm starting to cry... King, pls. It takes like 2 minutes to post the day chat.

1. click on the Archive link at the bottom of this page. Or this link (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/archive/index.php/f-16.html).
2. navigate through your Vault to your day thread.
3. mark everything from the first to the last post (use "page down" while holding the left mouse button)
4. copy it (ctrl+C)
5. Write a new post using paste. Remove the whitespace in the first spoiler bracket and replace paste with your pasted day thread.
6. done.

Thank you.

[King]

FM Game Master
26-06-2012, 07:37 PM
Hey guys! Rise and shine!

It seems like something tragic happened in your vault last night. Chewbacca was violently murdered, it looks like news of traitorous elements within the vault was correct. Be on your guard folks!

His role was... Saboteur!

He left a last will:




Decided to sabotage Greedo tonight. If there's multiple deaths then he's cleared since my sabotage would've occured before his kill. If there's only one death though he could still be mafia that didn't target anyone though.

Other than him Larkin and Mkoll stuck out to me as being the scummiest, in that order. So we'll see what happens. King's probably just a bored citizen so I wouldn't worry too much about lynching him.

If I had to take a shot in the dark, this would be my imagined roles list:

Hidden Brotherhood of Steel - Greedo
Sheriff - Stan
Hidden NCR - King
Hidden NCR - Tebow
Hidden NCR - Leia
Hidden NCR - Chewbacca
Hidden Any - Larkin
​Hidden Any - Mkoll
Hidden Any - Monica



Galaxy Radio is also proud to publish the radio interview that occurred last night! Roxy got to sit down with King, who had this to say:




Thank you Foxy Roxy for inviting me to your studio
First I’d like to say hello to everyone back home, they are all fans and just adore your sexy voice!
I’d like to start by saying how much it’s a pleasure being here. I must admit that I am out of my depth and as my good old grampa would say, it’s better to keep one’s consult than to appear as an idiot. Haha

That said I must say Roxy that I’m still trying to figure out how everything works. There are so many started threads and at times, they are not open for comment. The comment I made in the vault was actually a test. Being a SC2 mafia fan I almost expected things to unfold in a similar way but the complexity of the Mafia forum combined with the numbers of players clearly makes this a forum for seasoned veteran.
Question 1:

What do you consider to be the pros and cons of being placed in a small vault temporarily?
Well the vault made things interesting as you can get answers, or even have some topics clarified but at the same time, being completely knew to this experience I wasn’t sure how to properly use it. As you also know, I was confused when people started to get their roles and I didn’t have mine. I guess gramps will be calling me an idiot after all haha
Question 2:

Do you have any opinions on the Chewbacca-Greedo relationship?
Good question Roxy, as I have said, this isn’t your standard SC2Mafia game and therefore, I try not to have an opinion. That said I try to keep an open mind to the very few strategy I,ve observed in SC2, they could be evil on the same team trying to influence the players. Yes they may lose one player but granting a lot of credibility to the remaining one. The thought of jester look also comes to mind. I guess everyone will have a different take on what’s really going on and we’ll definitively keep an eye on what transpires between those two.
Question 3:

What is your opinion on Leia's plan?
Again, this is a touchy subject because I feel we don’t have enough information to make a valid hypothesis but I personally think she could have done without making the obvious relation to Star Wars. I’m sure the Star Wars fans were excited and perhaps this will prove to be helpful in gaining sympathy from her much love character.
Question 4:

Who do you find to be the most suspicious person, and why?
Well right now pretty much everyone is suspicious. Those that are not talking are suspicious but could also just be adjusting to the game. On the other hand, being that the game is so young, I also have to wonder about those that have so much to say. It was normal I think to have a slow start and I was taken aback of the amount of people that actually had something to say even tho much of it seemed useless in the greater scheme of things. Again, keeping an open mind, everyone is highly suspicious at this point and I would hate to influence wrongly the people I count on to win this game

Question 5:

Who do you find to be the most trustworthy person, and why?
That is an easy question Roxy, apart from me, I would have to say it’s you. We have come to depend on your information and the way you keep in touch with your community is a monument to your commitment.

Again Roxy I must thank you for having me in your studio. It is very enlighten to see where it all happens. Good luck to all of the players and thank you for delivering the news the way you do



--- King is not eligible for a free lynch today ---

Galaxy Radio also has an anonymous reporter in the field, who conducted their own interview last night!




Hello my fellow vault mates, It seems that i can give my opinion here without having to worry about people knowing my true identity so i shall begin, The two lurkers, King and the other (I forgot his name already) I believe should be pressure voted into giving at least a role out and hopefully some way of proving that role. Hopefully we can use those 2 role claims at least to our advantage when we have our full meetup outside of our tiny vault. The next thing i would like to point out is how Chewbacca seems to only want Greedo dead, Despite anything we could say to change his mine. So im assuming that Chewbacca is one of the Random Any's and is an Executioner. Because of this, I think today's goal is to get the lurkers to role claim or lynch, And to assess how many people have died so see if there are any more killing roles in our vault because the Orange Mafia. That's about all i have to say from what I've gathered from day 1.

From a Vault 103 Towny



There was an article taped next to it:




Boxy Roxy presents: Twisted News 103.1
Boxy Roxy here – cousin of Foxy Roxy, the radio DJ from Twisted Heart 102.6.

All interviews will remain anonymous on one condition: you must write something useful and game related in your interview or else you will be publicly trashed in our gossip column.

Town should not want to kill me, as I am your journalist friend who you can count on to hold players accountable for their actions. Killing roles should not want to kill me, as I am your corrupt journalist ally.

This code can be used later to prove my identity: lvpnsityfnrckq

Major numerical inconsistency found
When examining key pieces of evidence listed in the “Roles List and Player List information, a curious puzzle presented itself. 48 roles are listed, yet 52 players are playing. If puppet accounts are present, they will not take up slots in the overall role list (FAQ #89). Now this might suggest two ventriloquists are in play due to the 4 extra player accounts, but let us explore other possibilities:

A ninja, graverobber, and ravager cannot target the ventriloquist (FAQ #24), (FAQ #76), (FAQ #73). What about an Amnesiac, Soul Thief, or Student? Fear not, the Boxy Roxy inquired and found that an Amnesiac and Student will NOT pick up ventriloquist puppets and simply become mafiosos for that particular team. The Soul Thief will treat the ventriloquist like a citizen, obtaining no abilities but not using up a charge.

Who are these four extra members? Boxy Roxy believes they must be due to the presence of two ventriloquists, or are simply tools of WIFOM to get us to believe each mafia has a ventriloquist.

Breaking News!
Although our vault player and role list matches up, we are not safe from a ventriloquist! Boxy Roxy did some investigation and found that ventriloquist puppets, if present, will show up in mafia or random any slots in vault specific role lists.


By the Numbers

http://i45.tinypic.com/2h6btko.png

Le Gossip Column
-Assuming all other vaults are approximately 9 players large: 52 players/9 = 5-6 vaults are likely in existence

-Hypothesis:
Vault 1: Red Mafia, Red Mafia, Puppet, Neutral, approx. 5 town
Vault 2: Red Mafia, Red Mafia, Puppet, Neutral, approx. 5 town
Vault 3: Red Mafia, Ventriloquist, Killing Neutral, approx. 5 town
Vault 4: Orange Mafia, Orange Mafia, Puppet, Neutral, approx. 5 town
Vault 5: Orange Mafia, Orange Mafia, Puppet, Neutral, approx. 5 town
Vault 6: Orange Mafia, Ventriloquist, Killing Neutral, approx. 5 town

-Vaults with mafia power roles (aka consigs that wish to use their night actions instead of kills) most likely have a killing neutral present to add to the KPN.

-The wording of our Vault’s information thread suggests that the different vaults may open to the outside world on different days/nights.





---
Graveyard:

Chewbacca (Saboteur): Killed at night by strike force members. [Night 1]
FM Game Master
26-06-2012, 07:40 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iYBIsLFbKo
King
26-06-2012, 07:44 PM
I was bussed last night and had a ton of fun !
King
26-06-2012, 07:44 PM
I just love the big city! radio interview and party bus... big city, bright lights :)
Monica
26-06-2012, 07:48 PM
I was bussed last night and had a ton of fun !

How can you be bussed in a vault? Aren't they super small? But anyways how come you didn't post anything on day 1 king?
King
26-06-2012, 08:01 PM
I'm actually just trying to understand what is going on. So if I'm right, we are chatting in a vault, random 12 or so ppl? is what I got from Grecco? and there is several more vaults then?

I would love to contribute more but unfortunately my role isn't much help. I can't investigate or do night actions. As far as being bussed, well I got a pm saying I was bussed and had lots of fun.

I'm very intrigued by Lea's plan and I'm curious how see found out so much so fast.




How can you be bussed in a vault? Aren't they super small? But anyways how come you didn't post anything on day 1 king?
Monica
26-06-2012, 08:13 PM
I'm actually just trying to understand what is going on. So if I'm right, we are chatting in a vault, random 12 or so ppl? is what I got from Grecco? and there is several more vaults then?

I would love to contribute more but unfortunately my role isn't much help. I can't investigate or do night actions. As far as being bussed, well I got a pm saying I was bussed and had lots of fun.

I'm very intrigued by Lea's plan and I'm curious how see found out so much so fast.

Yes, And its 7 other people now, Since one has died already.
King
26-06-2012, 08:21 PM
I thought we were 9?
how did they die? did one person or more die from every vault?

Yes, And its 7 other people now, Since one has died already.
King
26-06-2012, 08:23 PM
what does our Sheriff Stan think of all of this ?
do we vote up one person for trial today?
King
26-06-2012, 08:35 PM
well Chewbacca wasn't an exec so I think he's pretty much on the money with is list. I'd like to vote up Greedo to see what he has to say for himself. Seems like Greedo might of had a reason for wanting Chewbacca out of the way and didn't plan on his last will
Mkoll
26-06-2012, 08:45 PM
well Chewbacca wasn't an exec so I think he's pretty much on the money with is list. I'd like to vote up Greedo to see what he has to say for himself. Seems like Greedo might of had a reason for wanting Chewbacca out of the way and didn't plan on his last will
What makes you say he "didn't plan his last will"?
King
26-06-2012, 08:53 PM
Saying that Greeco might of wanted him dead and didn't expect to be called out in chewbacca last words



What makes you say he "didn't plan his last will"?
King
26-06-2012, 08:55 PM
I say that because why would someone else kill him hoping that he points to Greeco. Makes new no sense.
Tebow
26-06-2012, 08:57 PM
King..
Didn't you see the part where the idea was to NOT claim if something happened to you?

Also, are we going to go through with the plan leia suggested yesterday of soft roleclaims?
Mkoll
26-06-2012, 08:58 PM
Saying that Greeco might of wanted him dead and didn't expect to be called out in chewbacca last words
From what I saw yesterday, it looked like Chewbacca was after Greedo, not the other way around.
I'm also a bit confused as to your stance on Leia's plan. Can you elaborate, please?
What do you think are specific pros and cons about her plan?
What do you mean by Star Wars references?
Mkoll
26-06-2012, 09:00 PM
King..
Didn't you see the part where the idea was to NOT claim if something happened to you?

Also, are we going to go through with the plan leia suggested yesterday of soft roleclaims?
I was thinking this, too.
I still don't like the roleclaim plan because it gives scum too much information but if majority wants it then I'll go for it. If we are gonna do it we need to wait until everyone else posts and confirms their intent to do so.
Tebow
26-06-2012, 09:01 PM
His statement is pretty clear...
Is English your first language?

EDIT: The odds are that PRS are going to die anyways, scum already have the information that there are many pr in this vault.
King
26-06-2012, 09:02 PM
King..
Didn't you see the part where the idea was to NOT claim if something happened to you?

Also, are we going to go through with the plan leia suggested yesterday of soft roleclaims?

No I didn't... Oups, my bad
Monica
26-06-2012, 09:03 PM
King..
Didn't you see the part where the idea was to NOT claim if something happened to you?

Also, are we going to go through with the plan leia suggested yesterday of soft roleclaims?
Something happened to me last night, I shall not say what since you don't want me to
King
26-06-2012, 09:05 PM
What's a PRS? And PR? Thx


His statement is pretty clear...
Is English your first language?

EDIT: The odds are that PRS are going to die anyways, scum already have the information that there are many pr in this vault.
Tebow
26-06-2012, 09:06 PM
Power Role
Power Roles
AKA roles with a night action
Mkoll
26-06-2012, 09:07 PM
His statement is pretty clear...
Is English your first language?


Do you not know what scum hunting is? & no, his statement is actually really vague. Thanks for defending him, though.
King
26-06-2012, 09:07 PM
I think it's important to know. How can we piece what's going on if we don't share the info we have?


Something happened to me last night, I shall not say what since you don't want me to
King
26-06-2012, 09:08 PM
Thank you
Power Role
Power Roles
AKA roles with a night action
Mkoll
26-06-2012, 09:09 PM
I think it's important to know. How can we piece what's going on if we don't share the info we have?
Because we can use night actions to soft confirm someone's role & it's not as useful if we claim what happened to us before someone claims responsibility for it.
If someone says "I bus drove so and so last night" it's more credible than if the people who were bus driven are claiming bus driven and someone says "oh yeah, that was me."
Mkoll
26-06-2012, 09:10 PM
From what I saw yesterday, it looked like Chewbacca was after Greedo, not the other way around.
I'm also a bit confused as to your stance on Leia's plan. Can you elaborate, please?
What do you think are specific pros and cons about her plan?
What do you mean by Star Wars references?
King can you answer these please?
Tebow
26-06-2012, 09:12 PM
Well, I suppose we should get started with our claiming if we want to get things done during the day.

I claim a role which does not give feedback at night.
King
26-06-2012, 09:16 PM
Good point. Still there is also the risk that some claims a role and tries to prove it and the dirt bag denies of it. Either way, it came comes back to credibility and guessing. If you die tonight, anyone can claim they did something to you even if it's not true. I'm hoping for sheriff to lead us

Because we can use night actions to soft confirm someone's role & it's not as useful if we claim what happened to us before someone claims responsibility for it.
If someone says "I bus drove so and so last night" it's more credible than if the people who were bus driven are claiming bus driven and someone says "oh yeah, that was me."
King
26-06-2012, 09:19 PM
Okay well it's very late, I'll be up early to check on the chat and reply. Good night all!
Mkoll
26-06-2012, 09:22 PM
Okay well it's very late, I'll be up early to check on the chat and reply. Good night all!
Thanks for deliberately ignoring my questions twice.
Mkoll
26-06-2012, 09:44 PM
Did I miss a sheriff claim by Stan at some point?
Monica
26-06-2012, 09:46 PM
Did I miss a sheriff claim by Stan at some point?

No, But he asked a question wondering if because our roles said sheriff, Does it mean we have the Sane sheriff here.
Mkoll
26-06-2012, 10:12 PM
No, But he asked a question wondering if because our roles said sheriff, Does it mean we have the Sane sheriff here.
I'm aware but that's not by any means a claim.
& I see FM Radio lurking. I swear if you post some crazy shit sound clip on page 2 you're getting your nose broken xD
Monica
26-06-2012, 10:44 PM
I'm aware but that's not by any means a claim.
& I see FM Radio lurking. I swear if you post some crazy shit sound clip on page 2 you're getting your nose broken xD

I never said it was a claim either, I was just stating where people may have thought he claimed.
Tebow
26-06-2012, 10:48 PM
I'm aware but that's not by any means a claim.
& I see FM Radio lurking. I swear if you post some crazy shit sound clip on page 2 you're getting your nose broken xD
Just go to 5 posts per page like me 8)

Also, is anyone else going to claim?
I urge you to do so. We need all the claims before too much of the day is over to do much useful with them.
Tebow
26-06-2012, 10:49 PM
And by claim I mean soft claim as in the ones Leia suggested.
Greedo
26-06-2012, 10:51 PM
I may as well just come out and say it as these days appear to be too short for me to beat around the bush. I am the Detective and I followed Stan last night. He visited and presumably killed Chewbacca.

-vote Stan

I'll hopefully be home in about 4 hrs to join the discussion properly. I've only had the time to skim the day chat and intro paragraph so far but when I get home you'll have my full attention.

Bad luck Stan, I guess I'm just a pro(de)tective.
FM Radio
26-06-2012, 10:56 PM
I'm aware but that's not by any means a claim.
& I see FM Radio lurking. I swear if you post some crazy shit sound clip on page 2 you're getting your nose broken xD

>.>
<.<

I have my forums set to 50 posts per page. <- this may or may not be a clue about something...

(and yes... I have to listen to it too, I'm not muting my headphones. Even more so since I have to listen to a whole bunch of vids to find the most annoying.)
Monica
26-06-2012, 10:58 PM
I may as well just come out and say it as these days appear to be too short for me to beat around the bush. I am the Detective and I followed Stan last night. He visited and presumably killed Chewbacca.

-vote Stan

I'll hopefully be home in about 4 hrs to join the discussion properly. I've only had the time to skim the day chat and intro paragraph so far but when I get home you'll have my full attention.

Bad luck Stan, I guess I'm just a pro(de)tective.

Since i don't think Stan is here right now let me do it for him.
-9001 for trying to accuse me as a killer
Stan
26-06-2012, 11:11 PM
I may as well just come out and say it as these days appear to be too short for me to beat around the bush. I am the Detective and I followed Stan last night. He visited and presumably killed Chewbacca.

-vote Stan

I'll hopefully be home in about 4 hrs to join the discussion properly. I've only had the time to skim the day chat and intro paragraph so far but when I get home you'll have my full attention.

Bad luck Stan, I guess I'm just a pro(de)tective.

Honestly I had no idea who I visited, I was witched last night. All I can say is I'm not a role that gives feedback, so you aren't a pro so much as anxious to get a lynch (which you hinted at D1). That or you are a witch who has decided to try and set yourself up as a power role, witched me onto Chewbacca and then claimed detective when he died.

All I'll confirm is that I do not give night feedback, so no I'm not the Sheriff as Monica speculated.
Greedo
26-06-2012, 11:42 PM
Honestly I had no idea who I visited, I was witched last night. All I can say is I'm not a role that gives feedback, so you aren't a pro so much as anxious to get a lynch (which you hinted at D1). That or you are a witch who has decided to try and set yourself up as a power role, witched me onto Chewbacca and then claimed detective when he died.

All I'll confirm is that I do not give night feedback, so no I'm not the Sheriff as Monica speculated.

Managing to sneak back to a computer.

Lol. How convenient that Stan who hasn't posted at all since the start of Day 1 appears as soon as i accuse him. Stan, I'm not sure you understand how detective works. Even if you were actually witched I see who you visit, regardless of who you tried to visit. That person (Chewbacca) is now dead. You killed him.

We kill you.
Stan
27-06-2012, 12:04 AM
Managing to sneak back to a computer.

Lol. How convenient that Stan who hasn't posted at all since the start of Day 1 appears as soon as i accuse him. Stan, I'm not sure you understand how detective works. Even if you were actually witched I see who you visit, regardless of who you tried to visit. That person (Chewbacca) is now dead. You killed him.

We kill you.

I don't think you actually read my response, I have no idea if I actually visited Chewy and you are really detective, or if you're lying through your ass.

-10 points for reading comprehension.

Now if you were lookout and watched Chewy it would be a lot more convincing.
Tebow
27-06-2012, 12:50 AM
I believe he is saying that the fact that you were witched has nothing to do with the fact that you were watched performing the kill...
Tebow
27-06-2012, 12:59 AM
Well, I guess I will start a list:
Causes feedback
Witch?
Bus Driver/Kidnapper?
(Escort/Consort? - If the "and had a ton of fun" part of king's claim means escort blocked. @ King were the two parts of your message separate or together?)

Does not cause feedback
Greedo - Detective
Tebow - ???
Stan - ???
King - Citizen?

Unclaimed - Monica, Mkoll, Leia, Lurkin (where DID that guy go?)
Monica
27-06-2012, 01:42 AM
Well, I guess I will start a list:
Causes feedback
Witch?
Bus Driver/Kidnapper?
(Escort/Consort? - If the "and had a ton of fun" part of king's claim means escort blocked. @ King were the two parts of your message separate or together?)

Does not cause feedback
Greedo - Detective
Tebow - ???
Stan - ???
King - Citizen?

Unclaimed - Monica, Mkoll, Leia, Lurkin (where DID that guy go?)

My role doesn't give feedback.
FM Radio
27-06-2012, 02:04 AM
you guys are taking too long...
FM Radio
27-06-2012, 02:05 AM
need more posts
FM Radio
27-06-2012, 02:05 AM
to post, simply enter text at the bottom in the "quick reply" and hit "post quick reply"
FM Radio
27-06-2012, 02:06 AM
The quicker you get to post 50, the quicker I can go to bed!
Stan
27-06-2012, 02:12 AM
Only for you yayap
Stan
27-06-2012, 02:12 AM
Because I hate this damned song
FM Radio
27-06-2012, 02:13 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQB4nAjZIdE&feature=player_detailpage#t=29s
Leia
27-06-2012, 02:21 AM
Thank you Tebow, for your nice list.



Night feedback claimed:
Journalist/Corrupt Journalist (confirmed in Day 2 Post)
Witch (confirmed by Stan)
Bus Driver/Kidnapper (confirmed by King)
Other PR role (confirmed by Leia)
(Escort/Consort? - If the "and had a ton of fun" part of king's claim means escort blocked. @ King were the two parts of your message separate or together?)

Players who claim to give feedback:
Leia

Does not cause feedback
Greedo - Detective
Tebow - ???
Stan - ???
King - Citizen?
Monica - ???

Unclaimed - Mkoll, Lurkin (where DID that guy go?)

As you can see, there is an inconsistency here. If Mkoll and Larkin both have roles that give night feedback, then at most we have three roles that give night feedback. That means, I highly DOUBT we have a escort/consort, and either Leia, King, or Stan is lying about recieving a night feedback. (OR one of the players who claimed not to give feedback was lying). Keep in mind that a witch would likely not claim to give feedback, since it is a bad feedback that they would not wish to claim.

I find this inconclusive. Mkoll and Larkin should participate in the soft role claim when they come online next.

Moving down to the list of players that do not give feedback:
-I think the sheriff should reveal. We can see if anyone CC's. If there are no CC's then that one person is confirmed town. We can follow the sheriff's lead. There is no guarantee that the sheriff is sane/insane/naieve/paranoid... I think if the sheriff has checked any of the non-feedback giving players, we should lynch whoever the sheriff checked, so the sheriff can further narrow down their possible alignment.

-Greedo: To confirm Greedo's role, I think the journalist/corrupt journalist should claim and Greedo should target him. Even if the journalist dies at night, the interviewed target will be able to confirm Greedo's detective claim, thus clearing one more person.

-As soon as we hear the last two claims (Mkoll and Larkin), Mkoll, Leia, Larkin, and the sheriff can be confirmed as NOT killers. Greedo can easily be cleared tonight if he is detective, leaving Tebow, Stan, King, and Monica as the last four unproven roles (one is sheriff). Lynch one today, lynch one tomorrow, based on scum tells, and we will be able to narrow down a list of trustworthy people. There will be one last unproven role going out of the vault.
Leia
27-06-2012, 02:27 AM
tl;dr

Sheriff, please claim to have a confirmed town.
Mkoll should claim.
Larkin should claim.

Leia claims Journalist/Corrupt journalist - I interviewed Monica last night (sorry Monica for exposing you)
-> Greedo, follow me tonight and tell me who I interviewed. If I die at night, the player who I interview can confirm your info.

We lynch one of the non-sheriff non-feedback giving players today.
We lynch another tomorrow.
After Mkoll and Larkin claim, I can reveal more information that helps us.
Mkoll
27-06-2012, 02:28 AM
I'm online.
I actually was just making a post about how I wouldn't claim until you did, Leia.
No feedback from me.
Monica
27-06-2012, 02:35 AM
I think it might be possible that the Radio is calling us derps... Just saying
Monica
27-06-2012, 02:38 AM
tl;dr

Sheriff, please claim to have a confirmed town.
Mkoll should claim.
Larkin should claim.

Leia claims Journalist/Corrupt journalist - I interviewed Monica last night (sorry Monica for exposing you)
-> Greedo, follow me tonight and tell me who I interviewed. If I die at night, the player who I interview can confirm your info.

We lynch one of the non-sheriff non-feedback giving players today.
We lynch another tomorrow.
After Mkoll and Larkin claim, I can reveal more information that helps us.

I personally don't care, You could just never said who you visited though. Lol
Greedo
27-06-2012, 02:51 AM
-As soon as we hear the last two claims (Mkoll and Larkin), Mkoll, Leia, Larkin, and the sheriff can be confirmed as NOT killers. Greedo can easily be cleared tonight if he is detective, leaving Tebow, Stan, King, and Monica as the last four unproven roles (one is sheriff). Lynch one today, lynch one tomorrow, based on scum tells, and we will be able to narrow down a list of trustworthy people. There will be one last unproven role going out of the vault.

This makes zero sense to me. In the event that Stan is not lynched today he will reveal my identity to his mafia tonight and I will not be safe for the rest of the game.

It is like this, either you believe me, and Stan visited Chewbacca meaning he has an extremely high chance of being mafia

OR

You think I'm lying and am suicidal mafia, jester/executioner.

There is no in-between. I didn't claim so that we could lynch a lurker. Far and the most we gain the most info by lynching Stan.

The end.
Leia
27-06-2012, 02:54 AM
Well this complicates things, as now only two of the feedbacks can possibly be accounted for, between myself and potentially Larkin.

I need Larkin to claim if he gives feedback and then I can present more information about the PR that visited me.

Regardless of whether we lynch Stan or not, and regardless of what Stan flips, Greedo will not be cleared unless he can state a correct non-mafia detective result. Does that make sense?
Leia
27-06-2012, 03:01 AM
What do people think of my ventriloquist theory?
Greedo
27-06-2012, 03:08 AM
Regardless of whether we lynch Stan or not, and regardless of what Stan flips, Greedo will not be cleared unless he can state a correct non-mafia detective result. Does that make sense?

So you are saying, aside from the facts that I was cleared by a Saboteur and am delivering you mafia Stan, I could still be scum.

I respect you for considering even the most minute of possibilities but sometimes you have to deal in probability.
Mkoll
27-06-2012, 03:19 AM
So you are saying, aside from the facts that I was cleared by a Saboteur and am delivering you mafia Stan, I could still be scum.

I respect you for considering even the most minute of possibilities but sometimes you have to deal in probability.
Well, considering there are 2 possibilities of this outcome, I feel like we should lynch Stan and see what he flips.
Either 1) He flips mafia and we thank Greedo for being a de(pro)tective or
2) Stan flips town and we have some scum to nail.

The odds are 50/50, which are better than anything we've had before.


Well this complicates things, as now only two of the feedbacks can possibly be accounted for, between myself and potentially Larkin.

I need Larkin to claim if he gives feedback and then I can present more information about the PR that visited me.

Regardless of whether we lynch Stan or not, and regardless of what Stan flips, Greedo will not be cleared unless he can state a correct non-mafia detective result. Does that make sense?

Hold off on giving more info than absolutely necessary. There's still plenty of scum in here. &I agree to a certain extent. If Stan flips mafia then Greedo will be townie in my eyes, but I understand your PoV in that nothing is ever concrete. Greedo could be a Consig pulling a gambit in hopes to root out an opposite mafia member.

In any case, -Vote Stan
Monica
27-06-2012, 03:20 AM
This makes zero sense to me. In the event that Stan is not lynched today he will reveal my identity to his mafia tonight and I will not be safe for the rest of the game.

It is like this, either you believe me, and Stan visited Chewbacca meaning he has an extremely high chance of being mafia

OR

You think I'm lying and am suicidal mafia, jester/executioner.

There is no in-between. I didn't claim so that we could lynch a lurker. Far and the most we gain the most info by lynching Stan.

The end.

I do kind of agree with this though, If Stan is actually mafia and we let him off today, He can tell the mafia about what he's learned today in our vault which can be used for later
Monica
27-06-2012, 03:24 AM
-Vote Stan
I forgot to do that in my last post
Mkoll
27-06-2012, 03:31 AM
We have 3/5

Hold off, don't hammer yet. I wanna see what the pressure does to Stan.
Mkoll
27-06-2012, 03:46 AM
Either way, going to bed. I'll be on around 2:30 or 3 PM central tomorrow (about 3 hours before end time)
Larkin
27-06-2012, 03:52 AM
For the feedback list: I did not give out any feedback last night but boy did i receive...

Greedo is not the killing mafia since the saboteur didn't kill him, and if he was an executioner I think Stan's defence would have been more aggressive. Now he is just trying to find some excuse that doesn't discredit Greedo and still makes Stan look innocent.

Since he only needs 2 more votes I'll wait until he gets a chance to defend himself.

On another note, does anyone have suggestions for disguiser checks that was suggested earlier?
We shouldn't decide specifics until we know if Stan is mafia or not, I just don't want the idea to be forgotten.
Monica
27-06-2012, 03:54 AM
For the feedback list: I did not give out any feedback last night but boy did i receive...

Greedo is not the killing mafia since the saboteur didn't kill him, and if he was an executioner I think Stan's defence would have been more aggressive. Now he is just trying to find some excuse that doesn't discredit Greedo and still makes Stan look innocent.

Since he only needs 2 more votes I'll wait until he gets a chance to defend himself.

On another note, does anyone have suggestions for disguiser checks that was suggested earlier?
We shouldn't decide specifics until we know if Stan is mafia or not, I just don't want the idea to be forgotten.
For the disguiser note, I feel that we should make it after this night, So that we can see if we killed the mafia or not, Because it would be useless if there was a mafia still here.
Leia
27-06-2012, 04:27 AM
Lol. So only I claim to give out feedback.........

Interesting indeed. In any case, I feel 95% sure I can confirm the presence of an arms dealer. I received armor last night, and since nobody has claimed to have given it to me, perhaps it is the armorsmith trying to hide... But I think it's more likely that it was an arms dealer simply because of the presence of a saboteur in this vault. Undoubtedly the FM Game Master put a saboteur and the arms dealer in the same vault so that they could meet up to go KABOOM in the night/all those other juicy role interactions. In any case, at least this protects me, your beautiful journalist/corrupt journalist Princess Leia.

Another scenario is that it was a drug dealer that drugged me and didn't want to claim in the event that I am attacked and the armor does not protect me.... No idea. Still inclined to believe it is an arms dealer though.

Leia confirms presence of: armorsmith/arms dealer/drug dealer


----

Regarding disguiser checks, I agree, that is a topic to be discussed tomorrow. It is beneficial even if there is orange mafia in the vault because orange mafia would want to find and eliminate a red mafia disguiser as much as we would.

Got some ideas for that though.
Monica
27-06-2012, 04:30 AM
Well if were confirming roles of what we were visited by.
My soul was stolen last night. At least, i think so, I'm still a little confused on what happened last night.
Leia
27-06-2012, 04:36 AM
Well I'm at work now, I'm going to lunch and then a meeting in a little bit. I'll be able to post a little more if anybody wants to come back and chat with me. I also agree with what's been said about Stan. I'll definitely vote him later after I get off work before the end of our game day since his lynch gives us the most information at this point, and could help protect Greedo if he truly is detective.

I am not yet discounting the possibility of Greedo bussing his partner, being opposing mafia consig, executioner, jester, being a ventriloquist puppet, etc. There are so many possibiltities that will be narrowed down after a few successful trackings. Since I am the only claimed role to visit others at night, I still would suggest Greedo follow me (or have extremely good reason for following someone else).

At this point, I am also suspicious of Monica for just going with the flow and not bringing up anything new to the table. Monica, why are you so quick to agree with people? I feel like you are playing scum because you have been going for obvious chat actions such as questioning King's lack of participation and agreeing with people about the Greedo/Stan thing and the disguiser checks.

Monica, might I ask for a list of people you find most suspicious and why?
After witnessing King's lurking, what role might you think he has?
Leia
27-06-2012, 04:39 AM
Soul stolen claim? O.O

It would be helpful if Larkin could mention perhaps the number of feedback messages he received last night. Is anyone else as baffled as I am by the sudden appearance of way too many feedback messages for people to give feedback out?

I am starting to think our whole vault is composed mainly of the neutrals in this game. (Soul thief, witch, possible arms dealer, possible corrupt journalist).
Leia
27-06-2012, 04:48 AM
Should be back around 17:00. Just so nobody thinks I abandoned you.
Monica
27-06-2012, 04:53 AM
Well I'm at work now, I'm going to lunch and then a meeting in a little bit. I'll be able to post a little more if anybody wants to come back and chat with me. I also agree with what's been said about Stan. I'll definitely vote him later after I get off work before the end of our game day since his lynch gives us the most information at this point, and could help protect Greedo if he truly is detective.

I am not yet discounting the possibility of Greedo bussing his partner, being opposing mafia consig, executioner, jester, being a ventriloquist puppet, etc. There are so many possibiltities that will be narrowed down after a few successful trackings. Since I am the only claimed role to visit others at night, I still would suggest Greedo follow me (or have extremely good reason for following someone else).

At this point, I am also suspicious of Monica for just going with the flow and not bringing up anything new to the table. Monica, why are you so quick to agree with people? I feel like you are playing scum because you have been going for obvious chat actions such as questioning King's lack of participation and agreeing with people about the Greedo/Stan thing and the disguiser checks.

Monica, might I ask for a list of people you find most suspicious and why?
After witnessing King's lurking, what role might you think he has?

Because, I'm more of a follower then a "doer", And i have been questioning kings lurking, Doesn't mean i have to exactly make a post about it.
I personally find Larkin to be the most suspicious due to the fact of the amount of post that he ended up contributing that were actually useful yesterday and his lack of posting today.
On King's note, If this is actually his first game of FM mafia then i should at least feel that he should contribute a little more to help us out. If King does continue to lurk more then I don't mind putting pressure on him. As for kings role i think he could be either a Citizen or a neutral, Which what has been said for neutrals so far has been Witch, and Soul Stealer.
Any more questions for me?
King
27-06-2012, 07:47 AM
Yes he was but he is dead and wasn't evil. He might of been on to something.

Her plan is fine and makes sense but isn't fool proof. We might actually lynch a good guy regardless since the confirmation may not be given if the action was performed on an evil person. I prefer to bank on the investigators roles.

Did you not she the joke about not waiting for han and wanted to be taken to the pod racing?

Sorry I didn't get to those last night, I was not ignoring you

King can you answer these please?
King
27-06-2012, 07:52 AM
Or he's a sheriff and investigated him too. That would make you a shifty sick for following the sheriff and missing the killer. We see this all the time in sc2mafia

Good going pet ace detective


I may as well just come out and say it as these days appear to be too short for me to beat around the bush. I am the Detective and I followed Stan last night. He visited and presumably killed Chewbacca.

-vote Stan

I'll hopefully be home in about 4 hrs to join the discussion properly. I've only had the time to skim the day chat and intro paragraph so far but when I get home you'll have my full attention.

Bad luck Stan, I guess I'm just a pro(de)tective.
King
27-06-2012, 08:03 AM
-vote Greedo (on my playbook I will put it in cyan later)

Greeco was targeted by Chewbacca who is dead, he claims detective and says that our likely sheriff did it. Come on!!!! What happens when we lynch sheriff? Greedo goes, Oups... Again, even if he's really detective, he's only following Stan, this means that Stand can be a sheriff and that someone else killed chewy.

Too risky and I don't believe Greedo
We have more to lose than to gain, why is he so pushy to have Stan up? He should know how his role works
King
27-06-2012, 08:20 AM
can't fix the vote Greedo so new post
-vote Greedo

I'm not going to be a blind sheep and follow him despite the errors of his deductions
Greedo
27-06-2012, 08:32 AM
I'm not going to be a blind sheep and follow him despite the errors of his deductions

Lol King, I have been waiting all this time for you to post your opinion because I have suspected you since I read that radio interview, but I wanted to let you lay your cards on the table before I said anything. What I couldn't figure out though, was were you and Stan on the same mafia team or separate ones? You've now confirmed for me that you're both orange mafia.

Note for future games, buddy. When your mafia teammate is going down in flames, it's best not to dive head-long after him.

Now to address your actual argument. Errors in my deduction? I didn't make any deductions beyond the laws of probability. My PM clearly stated that my target (Stan) visited Chewbacca who is now dead. In all likelihood this means Stan is the one who killed him. Yes an alternative is always possible, but it doesn't change the fact that the decision to lynch Stan is supported by the best statistical evidence we have. You are reluctant to lynch Stan because he somehow is suddenly a Sheriff, and your reaction is to turn around and lynch the Detective? There is no logical scenario where your reaction and your vote on me make any sense whatsoever, unless you're not even trying to hide the fact you're mafia.

GG Vault 103. We beatz them! :)
King
27-06-2012, 08:58 AM
man is it possible to be more full of one self. I think you are wrong, I think that you are covering your ass and I think you are using every one in a very cleaver way. I was waiting to see how you would do this and it's very nice buddy but here's a tip, you won't be able to fool everyone every time. So go ahead and lynch our sheriff, the word of this act will carry far from those vault walls. My money is on you lying and deceiving everyone. Classic tactic of claiming that you followed someone and he happened to kill the person that died... lol you're a hoot pet ace dick !


Lol King, I have been waiting all this time for you to post your opinion because I have suspected you since I read that radio interview, but I wanted to let you lay your cards on the table before I said anything. What I couldn't figure out though, was were you and Stan on the same mafia team or separate ones? You've now confirmed for me that you're both orange mafia.

Note for future games, buddy. When your mafia teammate is going down in flames, it's best not to dive head-long after him.

Now to address your actual argument. Errors in my deduction? I didn't make any deductions beyond the laws of probability. My PM clearly stated that my target (Stan) visited Chewbacca who is now dead. In all likelihood this means Stan is the one who killed him. Yes an alternative is always possible, but it doesn't change the fact that the decision to lynch Stan is supported by the best statistical evidence we have. You are reluctant to lynch Stan because he somehow is suddenly a Sheriff, and your reaction is to turn around and lynch the Detective? There is no logical scenario where your reaction and your vote on me make any sense whatsoever, unless you're not even trying to hide the fact you're mafia.

GG Vault 103. We beatz them! :)
Monica
27-06-2012, 09:09 AM
man is it possible to be more full of one self. I think you are wrong, I think that you are covering your ass and I think you are using every one in a very cleaver way. I was waiting to see how you would do this and it's very nice buddy but here's a tip, you won't be able to fool everyone every time. So go ahead and lynch our sheriff, the word of this act will carry far from those vault walls. My money is on you lying and deceiving everyone. Classic tactic of claiming that you followed someone and he happened to kill the person that died... lol you're a hoot pet ace dick !
Um. Anyone else kind of find this a bit funny?
Greedo
27-06-2012, 09:16 AM
man is it possible to be more full of one self. I think you are wrong, I think that you are covering your ass and I think you are using every one in a very cleaver way. I was waiting to see how you would do this and it's very nice buddy but here's a tip, you won't be able to fool everyone every time. So go ahead and lynch our sheriff, the word of this act will carry far from those vault walls. My money is on you lying and deceiving everyone. Classic tactic of claiming that you followed someone and he happened to kill the person that died... lol you're a hoot pet ace dick !

I particularly liked the admission to being part of a mafia night chat.

Lol.
Larkin
27-06-2012, 09:20 AM
@Leia I received one feedback message. The person who gave it to me could either be town or mafia, but since no one else but Leia has claimed to give out feedback I assume there are atleast 2 mafias in this vault.

@Monica I'm not good at long posts so I tend to keep it short, long posts cause confusion and tl;dr's imo.

I basically give my thoughts in a short and easy to understand way, if you want to know anything just ask.
Larkin
27-06-2012, 09:22 AM
King what makes you think Stan is the sheriff? Did you talk about what he should claim last night?
Larkin
27-06-2012, 09:28 AM
Also I think the spam graph is wrong for me for last day, it was clearly 3-3 in spam/seriousness and not 4-2! (yeah you can add this to my spam posts you radioactive-poisoned dj)
King
27-06-2012, 09:35 AM
chewbacca left it in his last will, Stan Sheriff, and I didn't hear any other claims of sheriff

I got lynch in a SC2 game exactly like what is happening now, I was a sheriff and I visited someone to see who he was and then he got killed. The detective called me and I argued I was sheriff and still got lynch. Detective follows one person, he's not lookout. If he had said lookout and he was watching Chewbacca then it would be different I would believe him. AS it stands he's the most suspicious person here and I'm not sure that he is detective, and even if he is, as I said, only confirms that Stan would of visited him, which is what I would of done if I was sheriff



King what makes you think Stan is the sheriff? Did you talk about what he should claim last night?
King
27-06-2012, 09:35 AM
what admission? what are you on dude?


I particularly liked the admission to being part of a mafia night chat.

Lol.
Monica
27-06-2012, 09:44 AM
chewbacca left it in his last will, Stan Sheriff, and I didn't hear any other claims of sheriff

I got lynch in a SC2 game exactly like what is happening now, I was a sheriff and I visited someone to see who he was and then he got killed. The detective called me and I argued I was sheriff and still got lynch. Detective follows one person, he's not lookout. If he had said lookout and he was watching Chewbacca then it would be different I would believe him. AS it stands he's the most suspicious person here and I'm not sure that he is detective, and even if he is, as I said, only confirms that Stan would of visited him, which is what I would of done if I was sheriff
That's who he things to be a sheriff, Not the actual role of a sheriff...
Monica
27-06-2012, 09:47 AM
chewbacca left it in his last will, Stan Sheriff, and I didn't hear any other claims of sheriff

I got lynch in a SC2 game exactly like what is happening now, I was a sheriff and I visited someone to see who he was and then he got killed. The detective called me and I argued I was sheriff and still got lynch. Detective follows one person, he's not lookout. If he had said lookout and he was watching Chewbacca then it would be different I would believe him. AS it stands he's the most suspicious person here and I'm not sure that he is detective, and even if he is, as I said, only confirms that Stan would of visited him, which is what I would of done if I was sheriff
And another thing, this is very different then Sc2 mafia, Don't relate the 2 or your going to fuck up things your self.
King
27-06-2012, 09:56 AM
ok, I'll keep that in mind. thanks for the help :)



And another thing, this is very different then Sc2 mafia, Don't relate the 2 or your going to fuck up things your self.
Tebow
27-06-2012, 10:04 AM
Um. Anyone else kind of find this a bit funny?

Yeah.
Did luna put grim in the game without us knowing?

I claim to have received feedback as well last night.
"
Tebow
27-06-2012, 10:08 AM
Monica, since your soul was stolen, would you claim what you were before you were stolen?
Monica
27-06-2012, 10:15 AM
Yeah.
Did luna put grim in the game without us knowing?

I claim to have received feedback as well last night.
"
I was more or less talking about what King was calling us, But i guess that works too. Anyways, Anyone notice how once Stan begun to be voted, King came out of his lurk hole and ran right to back him up automatically accusing Greedo for trying to vote the towns *sheriff?* (I guess you guys have noticed, Well Greedo at least) I would at least like to see Stan lynched and depending if he is mafia or not, King/Greedo tomorrow. That's at least my take on it, Which seems to be everyone take i guess.
Monica
27-06-2012, 10:16 AM
Monica, since your soul was stolen, would you claim what you were before you were stolen?

Um, I'm still actually wondering if it was 100%, because i think it would have told me that I'm now a citizen or something like that. (I've never actually had my soul stolen before so this is kind of new to me. Lol)
Tebow
27-06-2012, 11:05 AM
So based on claims so far, we have in our vault:


Witch (Stan's claim) - Random any #1
Soul Thief / Drug Dealer (Monica's claim)- Random any #2
Bus Driver / Kidnapper / Drug dealer? (King's claim) - Hidden town #1 OR Random any #3
Armorsmith / Arms Dealer / Drug Dealer (Leia's claim) - Hidden Town #1/2 or Random Any #3
+1 feedback giving role that visited whichever one of me or Larkin that did not get bus drivin (Larkin's + Tebow's claims) - Hidden Town #2/3 OR Random Any #3

Non-Feedback Giving roles:
Mafia killing role (Chewbacca was killed last night) - Hidden Mafia
Detective (Greedo's claim) - Hidden Town #3 OR Random any #3
Sheriff (Confirmed in role list)
Citizen (King's claim) - Hidden Town #3

- One of these roles does not exist. One person is lying in their feedback claim or role claim.
- If king is lying about his claim or he was drugged, there is one more feedback giving role that is not bus driver.
- Assuming all feedback claims are true, at least 2 or the random towns must be in the top half of the list

But anyways, the point is, to king - If you are really citizen, then either Stan is confirmed scum or someone is lying about their claims. Since you seem to believe Stan to not be scum, answer this: Who do you think is lying in their feedback claim if it is not stan or yourself?
King
27-06-2012, 11:21 AM
all I know for sure is being bussed. The fact that Stan was named sheriff in Chewbacca last will doesn't mean that he is true enough. At the same time I was basing myself on my own experience which apparently don't apply, not sure why not.

I believe Chewbacca, and basically, if he is right, and Stan is a sheriff it still makes sense that he visited Chewbacca, but I see now that he is claiming witch? if so, then I say lets lynch him! the only thing I believed was Stan being a Sheriff.

So could Stan please clarify is claim for me?

as for defending anyone, well I suspect Greedo from the start, so anyone he's after makes me wonder. it would be a shame to lose a sheriff. If he claims witch, then he needs to go, it's an evil role lets burn him


So based on claims so far, we have in our vault:


Witch (Stan's claim) - Random any #1
Soul Thief / Drug Dealer (Monica's claim)- Random any #2
Bus Driver / Kidnapper / Drug dealer? (King's claim) - Hidden town #1 OR Random any #3
Armorsmith / Arms Dealer / Drug Dealer (Leia's claim) - Hidden Town #1/2 or Random Any #3
+1 feedback giving role that visited whichever one of me or Larkin that did not get bus drivin (Larkin's + Tebow's claims) - Hidden Town #2/3 OR Random Any #3

Non-Feedback Giving roles:
Mafia killing role (Chewbacca was killed last night) - Hidden Mafia
Detective (Greedo's claim) - Hidden Town #3 OR Random any #3
Sheriff (Confirmed in role list)
Citizen (King's claim) - Hidden Town #3

- One of these roles does not exist. One person is lying in their feedback claim or role claim.
- If king is lying about his claim or he was drugged, there is one more feedback giving role that is not bus driver.
- Assuming all feedback claims are true, at least 2 or the random towns must be in the top half of the list

But anyways, the point is, to king - If you are really citizen, then either Stan is confirmed scum or someone is lying about their claims. Since you seem to believe Stan to not be scum, answer this: Who do you think is lying in their feedback claim if it is not stan or yourself?
Tebow
27-06-2012, 11:23 AM
Stan claims to have been targeted BY the witch, not that he is the witch himself.
Tebow
27-06-2012, 11:25 AM
Also, Chewbacca's role list was simply a "shit in the dark," not really a confirmed list to judge the rest of the game by...
Tebow
27-06-2012, 11:25 AM
Also, Chewbacca's role list was simply a "shot in the dark," not really a confirmed list to judge the rest of the game by...
erm...
yeah
FM Game Master
27-06-2012, 11:40 AM
If a Wookie shits in the dark, does anybody hear him scream?
Monica
27-06-2012, 11:44 AM
If a Wookie shits in the dark, does anybody hear him scream?
Yes, Yes they do
FM Game Master
27-06-2012, 11:48 AM
DJ Roxy here, folks.

I have managed to override your vault PA system briefly!

To give you folks some respite, here's a favourite of mine; Duelling Banjos! From the movie Deliverance, this famous movie scene produced one of the most iconic songs of all time.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymA8T-ZWTCQ
Leia
27-06-2012, 11:49 AM
If there is a vigilante, I think it's safe to have him shoot King. He seems like an obvious jester to me, although he could be faking.

I just got off work and I should be around until the end of day.

Tebow, you also need to include my journalist/corrupt journalist in your list. I think it's funny that only I decided to reveal giving feedback. *sigh*
King
27-06-2012, 12:38 PM
then maybe he should say who he intended to target ? was it Chewbacca?
Stan claims to have been targeted BY the witch, not that he is the witch himself.
King
27-06-2012, 12:44 PM
I thought we were friends Leia!!!

this is a very unfriendly vault.

All I'm saying is it seems odd to want to lynch a potential sheriff because a detective followed him... but then again, I havn't heard anything about Stan so I grant you that it seemed weird that I would run to his defense and I'm starting to think that Stan should be defending himself more. If I was him, and I was sheriff... well...

and no' I'm not a jester I'm really townie

If there is a vigilante, I think it's safe to have him shoot King. He seems like an obvious jester to me, although he could be faking.

I just got off work and I should be around until the end of day.

Tebow, you also need to include my journalist/corrupt journalist in your list. I think it's funny that only I decided to reveal giving feedback. *sigh*
Stan
27-06-2012, 01:06 PM
I'm confused by king believing I was sheriff after I specifically claimed I wasn't.

Very well, role claim time. I am ze Escort I claimed no confirmable night feedback because I was planning on claiming citizen for now, obviously I can't afford that anymore. My original target last night was supposed to be Mkoll, which was mostly a random choice. I didn't claim this earlier because 1. it makes me a target for the mafia who would not want a roleblocker around, and 2. there's no way, short of the sheriff, to confirm whether or not I am indeed the escort and not the consort. I was witched, so I'm not sure who exactly I role blocked last night and I cannot defend against Greedo's claim that I visited chewbacca.
Stan
27-06-2012, 01:07 PM
Also, I have to leave for work here shortly, so I probably won't be posting any more tonight. Whoever I did get with my sexual prowess last night was not immune however.
Larkin
27-06-2012, 01:56 PM
I'm confused by king believing I was sheriff after I specifically claimed I wasn't.

Very well, role claim time. I am ze Escort I claimed no confirmable night feedback because I was planning on claiming citizen for now, obviously I can't afford that anymore. My original target last night was supposed to be Mkoll, which was mostly a random choice. I didn't claim this earlier because 1. it makes me a target for the mafia who would not want a roleblocker around, and 2. there's no way, short of the sheriff, to confirm whether or not I am indeed the escort and not the consort. I was witched, so I'm not sure who exactly I role blocked last night and I cannot defend against Greedo's claim that I visited chewbacca.

I was roleblocked, and Mkoll didn't mention receiving any feedback.

So I think there are 2 possibilities:

1) Stan is the escort and was witched to target me instead of Mkoll. Greedo is lying.

2) Stan is the consort who killed chewbacca and there is a second Escort in town who blocked me. Greedo is telling the truth.

If no other escort speaks up I will believe that Stan is telling the truth and that Greedo is lying.
Tebow
27-06-2012, 02:27 PM
I was as well role blocked.
Tebow
27-06-2012, 02:40 PM
Larkin, were you bus driven?
Mkoll
27-06-2012, 03:34 PM
I was roleblocked, and Mkoll didn't mention receiving any feedback.

So I think there are 2 possibilities:

1) Stan is the escort and was witched to target me instead of Mkoll. Greedo is lying.

2) Stan is the consort who killed chewbacca and there is a second Escort in town who blocked me. Greedo is telling the truth.

If no other escort speaks up I will believe that Stan is telling the truth and that Greedo is lying.


I was as well role blocked.


For the feedback list: I did not give out any feedback last night but boy did i receive...

Greedo is not the killing mafia since the saboteur didn't kill him, and if he was an executioner I think Stan's defence would have been more aggressive. Now he is just trying to find some excuse that doesn't discredit Greedo and still makes Stan look innocent.

Since he only needs 2 more votes I'll wait until he gets a chance to defend himself.

On another note, does anyone have suggestions for disguiser checks that was suggested earlier?
We shouldn't decide specifics until we know if Stan is mafia or not, I just don't want the idea to be forgotten.

You gonna flip flop again, Larkin? Gonna start calling you Mit fucking Romney.
Mit Romney is scummy.
You're scummy.

Look at this. You said you were suspicious of Stan and that he would probably try to make some excuse which makes him look innocent. He did so and you were so quick to just take his word for it.
Can we get a remix of the derp song and replace the lyrics with "SCUM"?
Leia
27-06-2012, 03:54 PM
IMO, lynch Stan today for not claiming he gives feedback. This is anti town and pro scum move because it would allow escort/consort to perform night kills. I will vote Stan before the end of the day.

I find myself distrusting both Monica and Larkin because their posts don't seem like town trying to scumhunt.
Monica, if your soul was stolen, can you claim your role before you were soul stolen? Do you continue to stand by your soul stolen claim?
Larkin, why are you so quick to defend Stan? What do you think about the huge mass of feedback messages, especially pertaining to role blocks that you are wrapped up in? Why should we not lynch you next?
Larkin
27-06-2012, 03:56 PM
I was not bus driven, only roleblocked.

Mkoll did you even look at the reasoning behind why I trust Stan now? Do it and tell me if I missed something.
Larkin
27-06-2012, 03:59 PM
Tebow also claims roleblocked, Stan claims he roleblocked an unknown person(me or Tebow it seems).

We miss one escort/consort and if Stan is the killer then we miss 2 escort/consort(s).

Do you still think Stan is the killer? I don't.
Mkoll
27-06-2012, 04:11 PM
Tebow also claims roleblocked, Stan claims he roleblocked an unknown person(me or Tebow it seems).

We miss one escort/consort and if Stan is the killer then we miss 2 escort/consort(s).

Do you still think Stan is the killer? I don't.

You were just SO easily swayed from one extreme to another based off of 2 posts which you already predicted would be posted.
Scummy as fuck, no?
Leia
27-06-2012, 04:25 PM
-vote Stan

His lie about not giving feedback is what's making me sure of my vote. His lie was not a pro-town lie, and only makes sense for scum who wants to choose between giving feedback and killing.
Greedo
27-06-2012, 04:33 PM
Given the likelihood that King and Stan are on the same team and that we can only kill one of them, any escort should absolutely not claim today. In fact, nobody should claim until we can be assured we can kill King too. Because right now you can be guaranteed 100% this day-chat is going straight to the orange mafia tonight.
Mkoll
27-06-2012, 04:41 PM
Given the likelihood that King and Stan are on the same team and that we can only kill one of them, any escort should absolutely not claim today. In fact, nobody should claim until we can be assured we can kill King too. Because right now you can be guaranteed 100% this day-chat is going straight to the orange mafia tonight.
This.
Now what do you think about Lurkin?
I have a gut feeling that he's some sort of scum/neut who would benefit from a lack of mafia killing, but it's hard for me to just go with that. Things are never as simple in FM as they seem.
Mkoll
27-06-2012, 04:42 PM
-vote Stan

His lie about not giving feedback is what's making me sure of my vote. His lie was not a pro-town lie, and only makes sense for scum who wants to choose between giving feedback and killing.
That's 4/5.

Someone hammer.
Larkin
27-06-2012, 04:45 PM
You guys obviously don't see the dilemma that we are missing not one, but TWO roleblockers if Stan is the killer.

How about I just end it now and
-vote Stan

If he is not consort or escort I'll eat someone's hat.
Mkoll
27-06-2012, 04:47 PM
You guys obviously don't see the dilemma that we are missing not one, but TWO roleblockers if Stan is the killer.

How about I just end it now and
-vote Stan

If he is not consort or escort I'll eat someone's hat.
Flip flop back again.
You should get the Mitt Romney award.
FM Game Master (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/5-FM-Game-Master)!
MAKE IT SO!
Greedo
27-06-2012, 04:50 PM
This.
Now what do you think about Lurkin?
I have a gut feeling that he's some sort of scum/neut who would benefit from a lack of mafia killing, but it's hard for me to just go with that. Things are never as simple in FM as they seem.

Well, his sudden change of tune here certainly could mean something. You wouldn't expect a red mafia to jump in to save orange mafia, and I can't believe there's 3 orange mafia, so if he's any kind of scum I'd say he'd be a neutral. We'll need time to deliberate on that one though, and it's probably a puzzle for another day because it seems like our hands are full of scum at the moment.

If you are one of us Larkin, then we need your vote. Day closes in 2 hrs and if we don't get a lynch off on Stan this vault is doomed.

Tebow, we need you too.
Greedo
27-06-2012, 04:51 PM
Thanks Larkin, you won't regret it.

Tebow, you should vote Stan just to be 100% certain this lynch goes off.
Mkoll
27-06-2012, 04:52 PM
Well, his sudden change of tune here certainly could mean something. You wouldn't expect a red mafia to jump in to save orange mafia, and I can't believe there's 3 orange mafia, so if he's any kind of scum I'd say he'd be a neutral. We'll need time to deliberate on that one though, and it's probably a puzzle for another day because it seems like our hands are full of scum at the moment.

If you are one of us Larkin, then we need your vote. Day closes in 2 hrs and if we don't get a lynch off on Stan this vault is doomed.

Tebow, we need you too.
He just voted, brah.
Leia
27-06-2012, 05:02 PM
Due to the possibility of puppets we need more than just a hammer. Possibly Greedo is the red mafia puppet. Greedo I request that you follow me tonight to prove your role. Journalist/corrupt journalist cannot be witched or roleblocked except by a jailor.

Whoever I interview may simply post "12345" if they like and I would not yell at them. We can use my role to prove the detectives role beyond a doubt. If the interview target wishes to write an article that's fine too, but be sure not to give obvious clues that will let Greedo know your identity.
Leia
27-06-2012, 05:03 PM
Greedo do you agree to this plan?
Greedo
27-06-2012, 05:08 PM
I am confused. How would a red mafia puppet know an orange mafia identity?
Leia
27-06-2012, 05:15 PM
Greedo seems particularly concerned that there is a puppet so Stan won't get lynched. I then assume Greedo may be the puppet since he refuses to follow me tonight to prove his role.

We could do an experiment. Nobody else vote. If Stan is lynched it clears all voters of being a puppet.
Leia
27-06-2012, 05:15 PM
Just kidding.

I forgot the ventriloquist has one vote that he can choose to allocate as he wishes meaning a puppet might be able to vote still.
King
27-06-2012, 05:20 PM
Given the likelihood that King and Stan are on the same team and that we can only kill one of them, any escort should absolutely not claim today. In fact, nobody should claim until we can be assured we can kill King too. Because right now you can be guaranteed 100% this day-chat is going straight to the orange mafia tonight.

Orange mafia? WTH? anyway, trying to buy yourself 2 night scum?
could someone investigate this clown? nobody is as suspicious as you. And any one can check me, I'm as clean as they come. There is just something about you Greedo. So have me lynch but Townsfolk's should keep an eye on you. You are obviously something evil
Greedo
27-06-2012, 05:21 PM
I'm just naturally opposed to wasting my night action to clear myself on a suggestion that would seem exceedingly unlikely were I in your position.
Leia
27-06-2012, 05:29 PM
Ok it's almost 23:30 and I need to sleep soon to wake up early for work tomorrow. My vote is where it is, and I think I've said what I need to say so far.

Monica and Larkin better respond to the questions I asked earlier. I hope to read answers when I wake up. I'll look here again right before I sleep.
Mkoll
27-06-2012, 05:44 PM
Orange mafia? WTH? anyway, trying to buy yourself 2 night scum?
could someone investigate this clown? nobody is as suspicious as you. And any one can check me, I'm as clean as they come. There is just something about you Greedo. So have me lynch but Townsfolk's should keep an eye on you. You are obviously something evil
We need your vote on Stan, my friend.
Larkin
27-06-2012, 06:03 PM
Ok it's almost 23:30 and I need to sleep soon to wake up early for work tomorrow. My vote is where it is, and I think I've said what I need to say so far.

Monica and Larkin better respond to the questions I asked earlier. I hope to read answers when I wake up. I'll look here again right before I sleep.

I would think my 2 posts immediately following your question post answers my reasoning and why I believed Stan based solely on action and role claims. Then his acting made him seem more like consort so I voted him. But I still do not believe he is the killer.
He could potentially have a consort ally in this vault, so if he turns out to be the killer then we can assume that there is a consort of the same faction he was a part of. And also a hidden escort if Tebow is telling the truth about his roleblock.

For the why you shouldn't lynch me question, because I can give feedback if I'm not roleblocked. Which was hinted at in my first post "I did not give out any feedback last night but boy did i receive..."
Greedo
27-06-2012, 06:14 PM
I do not believe the common rule of "directing night actions is bad" applies in this small vault, so I'm going to humbly request that the protection roles (I know for a fact there is more than one) guard me tonight, and that the neutralising/blocking roles disable King.

Still not 100% sure what to make of Larkin.

I believe it will be safe for people to reveal things tomorrow because assuming King is the 2nd mafia (and probably only other mafia) this vault will most likely be secure on Day 3. If we lynch King then there should be no information leaking back to the mafia and we have a chance to formulate a game plan going into the Big Game. I do suspect there is a neutral in here with us, but at least they won't be able to go telling the mafia everything we've revealed here.
Tebow
27-06-2012, 06:17 PM
lol
Leia
27-06-2012, 06:20 PM
I really must wonder if there is a witch, soul thief, etc here in the vault.

I also take back what I said earlier about Greedo must follow me. I may just be paranoid and I think we get more information by pressuring other roles than confirming Greedo pending what Stan flips, of course. I would like to announce that my interviewee may NOT just post "12345" anymore because that plan was is officially aborted.

Waiting for Monica to answer my questions. Do you still claim soul stolen? What was your role before you were soul stolen?
Tebow
27-06-2012, 06:21 PM
Waiting for Monica to answer my questions. Do you still claim soul stolen? What was your role before you were soul stolen?

I already asked her that; she said she did not want to claim in case the soul stealing was a drug and she still had her role.
Greedo
27-06-2012, 06:45 PM
Good luck tonight.

Let's hope we all make it through alive.
Mkoll
27-06-2012, 06:49 PM
Good luck tonight.

Let's hope we all make it through alive.
Same here.
Let's also hope, for your sake, that Stan actually does flip Mafia.
FM Game Master
27-06-2012, 07:02 PM
This is the news brought to you by Rooxxxxyyyyyy, Galaxy Radio's finest and only voice!


Good night sweet things. Roxy is looking out for you, my slumbering children spread out across those vaults. May your dreams bring happiness, and we will soon be together again. One day remaining!

Oh, seriously, you guys in Vault 103 have really gone insane! I just saw you drag Stan away and kill him!


Mind you, I did just intercept a radio communication by Stan. He was saying some very suspicious things... it seems he was a Fabricator for the Brotherhood of Steel!

---

Graveyard:

Chewbacca (Saboteur): Killed at night by strike force members. [Night 1]
Stan (Fabricator): Lynched by insane vault members, driven crazy by the sounds... [Day 2]

[King]

don't cry buddy, I was at the emergency with my daughter. Really sorry! it'S done? what doy ou think? good enough ?

doing day 1 now


I'm starting to cry... King, pls. It takes like 2 minutes to post the day chat.

1. click on the Archive link at the bottom of this page. Or this link (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/archive/index.php/f-16.html).
2. navigate through your Vault to your day thread.
3. mark everything from the first to the last post (use "page down" while holding the left mouse button)
4. copy it (ctrl+C)
5. Write a new post using paste. Remove the whitespace in the first spoiler bracket and replace paste with your pasted day thread.
6. done.

Thank you.

[King]

that was day 2 just on top here, now this is day 1

FM Game Master
24-06-2012, 08:46 AM
Good morning, rise and shine vault-dwellers, wake up and greet the next day of the rest of your lives!


I have been contacted by our dear new friends at the NCR and they've been complaining that none of y'all have been responding to their hails. In fact, I aint heard a peep out of ya! You know that Intercommy-thing on the wall? Speak near that once in a while, folks!


Anyway, an NCR column is currently on its way.


This is Roxy with Galaxy Radio,makin...*bzzzttzkkktzzkkttz*---



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-p5B1WxOqs)OUZmir035xo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUZmir035xo)
Greedo
24-06-2012, 08:50 AM
1st
Greedo
24-06-2012, 08:50 AM
2nd
Greedo
24-06-2012, 08:50 AM
3rd
Greedo
24-06-2012, 08:51 AM
4th
Greedo
24-06-2012, 08:51 AM
5th?
Greedo
24-06-2012, 10:37 AM
Anybody who doesn't talk gets lynched.
Larkin
24-06-2012, 11:23 AM
Hello, do you feel lonely?
Leia
24-06-2012, 11:30 AM
I am lonely without my Han Solo!

Come watch pod racing with me so I can forget about him!
Larkin
24-06-2012, 12:13 PM
Is the pod racing contest in africa?
Tebow
24-06-2012, 01:45 PM
Luna I hope you know that that music just actually caused damage to my ear

owww
Tebow
24-06-2012, 01:46 PM
RIP my ears
Greedo
24-06-2012, 04:43 PM
If you guys would be so kind, I'd like to see speculation on what you believe our particular role list might contain, in terms of neutrals, cits, mafias, PRs, etc.

Also, does this day go for 48 or 24 hrs?


RIP my ears

Agreed.
FM Game Master
24-06-2012, 04:46 PM
Days and nights in the vault section are 24 hours long. There were a few extra hours today, simply so the day/night cycle could align to a regular schedule.

There is a thread in the main FMXIII section called Day 1, which contains a wolfram alpha link.
Stan
24-06-2012, 04:47 PM
Dear FMGM,
-30 points for every day i have to endure this bs.
Sincerely, Stan Smith.
Chewbacca
24-06-2012, 05:00 PM
Guess Mozilla gets muted every time I check this site. Oh well.

-vote Greedo

Seems like something a mafia would suggest to get an idea for what people's roles are.
Larkin
24-06-2012, 05:54 PM
Guess Mozilla gets muted every time I check this site. Oh well.

-vote Greedo

Seems like something a mafia would suggest to get an idea for what people's roles are.

Could be, but your early voting could also be a mafia trying to get a mislynch.
Monica
24-06-2012, 05:56 PM
Oh, Hello Stan, Now we get to share a vault together, Are we going to have to have your point system even with just us 9?
Stan
24-06-2012, 05:57 PM
Oh, Hello Stan, Now we get to share a vault together, Are we going to have to have your point system even with just us 9?

Yes. +10 points for caring <3
Monica
24-06-2012, 06:01 PM
I can't wait til we get to the second page, that way i can unmute my speakers.
FM Radio
24-06-2012, 06:03 PM
Th-s ju-t -n: Th- Radi- -tati-n wou-d l-ke to rewa-d Gree-o wit- 5 p--nts f-r mak--g 5 pos-s to try a-d g-t to -he n-xt pag-.
Stan
24-06-2012, 06:04 PM
Th-s ju-t -n: Th- Radi- -tati-n wou-d l-ke to rewa-d Gree-o wit- 5 p--nts f-r mak--g 5 pos-s to try a-d g-t to -he n-xt pag-.

I concur with this garbled transmission, DEAR CHRIST
Monica
24-06-2012, 06:07 PM
I concur with this garbled transmission, DEAR CHRIST

It's ok, I think i decoded most of it,
This just in, The Radio -tati-n would like to reward Greedo with 5 points for making 5 posts to try and get to the next page.
It seems like the radio is taking your point system to themselves.
Greedo
24-06-2012, 06:11 PM
Guess Mozilla gets muted every time I check this site. Oh well.

-vote Greedo

Seems like something a mafia would suggest to get an idea for what people's roles are.

I am disappointed that the one single post thus far directed at getting something done has been met with a -vote. FM GM made it pretty clear that today isn't supposed to be a troll day just because there's been no night actions. We need to get something done and for that we need to get an appreciation of what kind of scum we're up against. Obviously we're facing an orange mafia member, but that's not necessarily the only threat in here so let's get talking about the game.

Anybody who trolls from now on will be met with suspicion. 24 hrs isn't long and we don't need you wasting our time.

@Chewbacca, if you truly intend to vote for me then your vote needs to be in cyan like this -vote
Monica
24-06-2012, 06:16 PM
I am disappointed that the one single post thus far directed at getting something done has been met with a -vote. FM GM made it pretty clear that today isn't supposed to be a troll day just because there's been no night actions. We need to get something done and for that we need to get an appreciation of what kind of scum we're up against. Obviously we're facing an orange mafia member, but that's not necessarily the only threat in here so let's get talking about the game.

Anybody who trolls from now on will be met with suspicion. 24 hrs isn't long and we don't need you wasting our time.

@Chewbacca, if you truly intend to vote for me then your vote needs to be in cyan like this -vote
We might only be facing an orange mafia, Because there are 3 random Any's that could be red mafia, Orange mafia, Or ect. Just throwing that in there
Mkoll
24-06-2012, 06:17 PM
Dear FMGM,
-30 points for every day i have to endure this bs.
Sincerely, Stan Smith.

For once, I actually agree with what Stan is saying.
+10 to you, Stan.
Leia
24-06-2012, 06:19 PM
Leia believes there is a serial killer and a graverobber because of the day 1 RP. Leia would have missed it if the FMGM didn't post all the RP's in one thread. The serial killer is the Lakeside Butcher!

There are probably some neutrals in here with us just based on probability? We can learn more later based on the KPN I think.
Mkoll
24-06-2012, 06:25 PM
So, is there any logical way we can deduce who is in here with us? I mean, no night actions last night. Is the next step to pressure people into role claiming?
I mean, think about it - a role claim in the vault isn't going to have the same effect it does in a full game. The real question is how much a role claim in the vaults will make a difference once we all see each other.
Greedo
24-06-2012, 06:29 PM
What I'm trying to piece together:

There are 9 people in our vault and 48 players in the game (entirely possible i miscounted).

It tells us there is an orange mafia member in our vault. Yet, if we were to make an assumption that all vaults were roughly the same size, then you'd expect there to be 5 vaults maximum to spread 12 mafia over. That would seem to indicate that each vault should contain at least 2 mafia on average plus a neutral.

Does anybody else find it odd that the role-list would specify that an orange mafia member is present, but not indicate a red one is present. Surely that would be an advantage to a red mafia member, because he would know his opponent was here, whereas the orange member would be unaware. I suppose it's possible FM GM balanced it by having an opposing vault where a red mafia member is in the role list and an orange member is hiding.

However, for this reason, I'm inclined to suspect there are only orange mafia in this vault. Based on the number of scum that have to be accounted for across the vaults, I suspect there are either:
a) 2 orange mafia in here
OR
b) 1 orange mafia and a very powerful neutral

Does this sound like reasonable reasoning to you guys? Please post comments/ suggestions that agree/disagree with me. I honestly do think us talking through this stuff will be beneficial.
Leia
24-06-2012, 06:32 PM
Stan can I get points for my RP analysis!

At this point I find Monica the most suspicious for saying we might only face the orange mafia. She is probably the serial killer who won't kill until we leave the vault to pretend like there is only orange mafia in here with us! What do people think of my analysis!
Greedo
24-06-2012, 06:37 PM
So, is there any logical way we can deduce who is in here with us? I mean, no night actions last night. Is the next step to pressure people into role claiming?
I mean, think about it - a role claim in the vault isn't going to have the same effect it does in a full game. The real question is how much a role claim in the vaults will make a difference once we all see each other.

I was thinking on this too and how if we were able to quickly and completely annihilate the scum from this vault we could all role-claim afterwards because we'd known there were no mafia left in here with us and we'd all have that secret information going into the big day. However, the problem I can't get past is how would we ever know the vault was clear of scum? Wiping out the mafia would be the most important step because we'd have to prevent them telling their buddies. However, neutrals could be dangerous too if they knew who was a power role (I'm thinking witches, etc).

For this reason unfortunately, I can't see how a mass role-claim will ever be viable in this vault. If anybody else sees a way though, enlighten me. I just can't figure out how to 100% know that our vault is secure.

Even if there were no kills, it doesn't rule out mafia deliberately abstaining, or using non killing powers. I suppose were we to lynch 2 mafia in a row and there was no indication of a powerful neutral in here with us, I'd be feeling pretty safe.

tl:dr: i think the less role-claims the better for now, unless there's a great reason to do it, or unless that person is facing a lynch and we're demanding they claim.
Monica
24-06-2012, 06:40 PM
Stan can I get points for my RP analysis!

At this point I find Monica the most suspicious for saying we might only face the orange mafia. She is probably the serial killer who won't kill until we leave the vault to pretend like there is only orange mafia in here with us! What do people think of my analysis!

I just said that it might only be orange, but it could be others, I'm just trying to open the borders and see what we have to deal with here.
Greedo
24-06-2012, 06:41 PM
Further reasoning on why mass role-claims aren't useful:

The role list is extremely vague and ambiguous. Any individual player claiming will have pretty much 0 bearing on the validity of another player.

Unlike for example, where the setup was 5 cits, 1 doc, 1 sheriff, 2 mafiosos. In that situation role-claims could be counter-claimed.

What can you counter-claim in this vault?

"I'm the orange mafia!" "No, I'm the orange mafia!!"

Lol.
King
24-06-2012, 06:45 PM
ok, what's the plan ?
Chewbacca
24-06-2012, 06:48 PM
What I'm trying to piece together:

There are 9 people in our vault and 48 players in the game (entirely possible i miscounted).

It tells us there is an orange mafia member in our vault. Yet, if we were to make an assumption that all vaults were roughly the same size, then you'd expect there to be 5 vaults maximum to spread 12 mafia over. That would seem to indicate that each vault should contain at least 2 mafia on average plus a neutral.

Does anybody else find it odd that the role-list would specify that an orange mafia member is present, but not indicate a red one is present. Surely that would be an advantage to a red mafia member, because he would know his opponent was here, whereas the orange member would be unaware. I suppose it's possible FM GM balanced it by having an opposing vault where a red mafia member is in the role list and an orange member is hiding.

However, for this reason, I'm inclined to suspect there are only orange mafia in this vault. Based on the number of scum that have to be accounted for across the vaults, I suspect there are either:
a) 2 orange mafia in here
OR
b) 1 orange mafia and a very powerful neutral

Does this sound like reasonable reasoning to you guys? Please post comments/ suggestions that agree/disagree with me. I honestly do think us talking through this stuff will be beneficial.

Why would you discuss the possibility of a red mafia in the game? That doesn't help anyone at this junction aside from either trying to hint to the orange mafia that you are the red mafia and you don't want to die tonight, or trying get a rise out of the red mafia so you know who not to target. The fact that you're trying to metagame which mafia side has the advantage tells me that you're probably on one of them.

Then we have your whole "anyone trolling today will be met with suspicion" schtick. You know who the mafia usually vote to lynch? Trolls. It's the easiest target for mafia to attack while appearing because no one's going to step up to defend a troll. A real townie is more likely to attack someone without fear because they know they're town and they don't have to worry about a believable defense later in the game.

With that in mind, and in honor of my missing Han pal, I'm going to shoot first.

-vote Greedo

And Leia, if you're talking about the day 1 RP reference to Friday the 13th, that was just their attempt to make the real rp, Fallout, a surprise. That's why there were references to portals and stuff too before the game actually started.

Not saying there isn't a serial killer, because who knows, we have 0 information.
Greedo
24-06-2012, 06:48 PM
Also, as an incentive for nobody to lurk:

How do you guys feel about the idea that anybody who doesn't post adequately today (yet passes GM's anti-lurking system) OR anybody who consistently only trolls today faces severe accusation and pressure tomorrow.

If we can agree early that this will be our policy, there should be no excuse for anybody to violate it.

Lurking and trolling just gives scum a place to hide and in a small vault like this it is extremely counter to our cause.
Leia
24-06-2012, 06:54 PM
This FM is fallout themed?

Also you all bring up great ideas but it's almost 1am here so I need to sleep. I'll be back in the morning to contribute more later. Goodnight everybody!
Monica
24-06-2012, 06:55 PM
This FM is fallout themed?

Also you all bring up great ideas but it's almost 1am here so I need to sleep. I'll be back in the morning to contribute more later. Goodnight everybody!

You couldn't tell by the FM's picture it was fallout themed?
FM Game Master
24-06-2012, 06:59 PM
As much as I enjoy the ear rape that I started, rest assured there will not be vuvuzelas on page 2.
Monica
24-06-2012, 07:02 PM
As much as I enjoy the ear rape that I started, rest assured there will not be vuvuzelas on page 2.

I'm assuming your going to put some up on page 3 then aren't you?
Chewbacca
24-06-2012, 08:18 PM
Also, as an incentive for nobody to lurk:

How do you guys feel about the idea that anybody who doesn't post adequately today (yet passes GM's anti-lurking system) OR anybody who consistently only trolls today faces severe accusation and pressure tomorrow.

If we can agree early that this will be our policy, there should be no excuse for anybody to violate it.

Lurking and trolling just gives scum a place to hide and in a small vault like this it is extremely counter to our cause.

Attacking lurkers and trolls just gives scum a place to hide.
Greedo
24-06-2012, 09:15 PM
Attacking lurkers and trolls just gives scum a place to hide.

That's 2 posts so far that seem as though you're trying to needlessly provoke.

I'll forget about that for now though and simply respond to your sentence.

I think it's pretty clear to everybody that a 0 tolerance policy on lurking/trolling is aimed at preventing lurking and trolling in the first place. I am not sure why any townie would ever be in favor of creating an environment that lets them flourish because it makes our job of scumhunting practically impossible.

All I'm asking for is some agreement here.
Greedo
24-06-2012, 09:21 PM
What I'm trying to piece together:

There are 9 people in our vault and 48 players in the game (entirely possible i miscounted).

It tells us there is an orange mafia member in our vault. Yet, if we were to make an assumption that all vaults were roughly the same size, then you'd expect there to be 5 vaults maximum to spread 12 mafia over. That would seem to indicate that each vault should contain at least 2 mafia on average plus a neutral.

Does anybody else find it odd that the role-list would specify that an orange mafia member is present, but not indicate a red one is present. Surely that would be an advantage to a red mafia member, because he would know his opponent was here, whereas the orange member would be unaware. I suppose it's possible FM GM balanced it by having an opposing vault where a red mafia member is in the role list and an orange member is hiding.

However, for this reason, I'm inclined to suspect there are only orange mafia in this vault. Based on the number of scum that have to be accounted for across the vaults, I suspect there are either:
a) 2 orange mafia in here
OR
b) 1 orange mafia and a very powerful neutral

Does this sound like reasonable reasoning to you guys? Please post comments/ suggestions that agree/disagree with me. I honestly do think us talking through this stuff will be beneficial.

Because I'm very keen to see people posting, I humbly request that if you're reading and can't think of anything much to say, could you post a response to my above quote. It doesn't have to be in depth, but it would be nice to hear a thought or two.
Chewbacca
24-06-2012, 10:05 PM
I'm not going to guess at the composition of roles as it serves nothing while giving the scum everything, like proclaiming in the day the possibility of a red mafia member. Who would have a reason to do that if they were town? If the orange mafia had not realized the possibility he could've accidentally killed him tonight. Instead, you've put the forth the possibility and now the orange mafia will be looking for clues as to who not to shoot tonight so that he can keep the KPN up.

Other than that you've contributed nothing other than the usual try-hard mafia stuff to put yourself in a position as town leader. The only thing I can conclude right now is that you're either a citizen or a mafia. And that's why my vote is to lynch you.

As to the lurker/troll question, their time will come when it needs to, but I find that mafia in big games like this are more likely to be the talkers than the lurkers. Especially when you're separated for the first few days and don't have buddies to protect you from a lynch.

Instituting a strict no lurker/no troll policy, on the other hand, greatly benefits the talking scum since it gives them an outlet to focus their energies while avoiding a lynch because the town's all caught up in killing the people they deem not active enough. I am not sure why any townie would ever be in favor of creating an environment that lets them flourish because it makes our job of scumhunting practically impossible.
Stan
24-06-2012, 10:09 PM
Busy day for me.
+15 points to Greedo for the sheer amount of speculation and analysis
+10 points to Chewbacca for trying to get something done.
-5 points to king for being absolutely useless thus far
FMGM gets nothing because I fear they will continue the auditory torture.

The problem in short:
Night 0 had no actions, so any informatory roles have nothing to add.
Due to the role list for our particular vault (we have no way of knowing how similiar or disimiliar our vault is from the others) any role claims at this point would not be terribly useful.

In other words suspicions today are based on personal motives or outright guesses. We can either randomly execute someone today, or risk allowing everyone to live into the night and await the results for tomorrow.

There are 5 confirmed town, 1 confirmed orange mafia, and 3 Hidden Random Anys. That puts the odds at worst at 1/9 we hit a mafia member, at best (assuming the gm would not pack out a vault with mafia of the same color) 4/9 if there's 2 of each color which is extremely unlikely. At best the chances of hitting a town member are 5/9, and 1/9 of hitting the confirmed sheriff.

Suspicious activity:
Greedo seemed to be making a ploy to lure power roles into claiming early on.
Chewbacca jumped on voting greedo rather quickly.
Monica made only a vague pass at stating anything useful and hasn't really contributed since.
Leia is very into the RP, for what reason I cannot begin to speculate.
King has made 1 post, which was less than 6 words in length.

Not necessarily scummy, but suspicious in my view.


As to speculating on our role lists composition I've noticed a discrepancy between ours and the main list.

Is the Sheriff in our vault's role list necessarily a Sane Sheriff or could they be any of the sheriffs?
Chewbacca
24-06-2012, 10:13 PM
o
Is the Sheriff in our vault's role list necessarily a Sane Sheriff or could they be any of the sheriffs?

Now that's something actually useful.
Stan
24-06-2012, 10:43 PM
Now that's something actually useful.

I ask because in the main role list it specifically states "Sane Sheriff" but in ours it just says "Sheriff"
Greedo
24-06-2012, 10:50 PM
Thanks Stan that was great.

Moar posts please @ everybody.
Leia
25-06-2012, 02:22 AM
Morning everyone!
I may be mistaken, but I believe the sheriff in our vault might be any of the various sheriff alignments, or else I think the FMGM would have specified.

My thoughts about this game:
The vault acts like the Dreamer's role, telling us that there is for sure one orange mafia among the nine of us. I doubt that there is a dreamer in this setup because the vaults already give us much of the information we would get from the dreamer in the first place.

I also thought of a question about one of the role cards: Question: Does the Gypsy Lady's role reveal occur on the in-vault role list, or for the overall role list? If the Gypsy Lady guesses a role in another vault, can the role be revealed in another vault, and not necessarily in the vault the Gypsy Lady is in?

I think there is going to be too high a KPN in this vault if there is red mafia and orange mafia and a killing neutral hidden in the role list, so there probably isn't all three. Or possibly there is a red mafia role that would rather perform its specific night action instead of kill. We will have more information about this tomorrow!

For now, I will FOS Mkoll who posted a lot on the troll day 0, but now is very quiet and has contributed very little. Seems to me like he is scum trying to stay inconspicuous. I would like him, King and Tebow to contribute more. -vote Mkoll as a pressure vote. I am interested to see what he has to say in response to:

1. Why haven't you posted nearly as much today as you have yesterday?
2. What non-town roles would you speculate are present in this vault?
3. Should we lynch you today for acting suspicious?
Leia
25-06-2012, 02:38 AM
If we semi-random lynch someone today and tomorrow, then I think that helps us since we can narrow down the list of people that includes the orange mafia. How would people feel about this? I think that a lynch gives us more information than no lynch.

Plan:
People claim if a. their role gives easily verifiable night feedback such as a role block, etc. or b. if their role does not give feedback. That way, a mafia consort would be forced to use their night action to role block instead of kill, thus helping the town avoid a kill if the consort wishes to remain "hidden".

We gather a list of the roles with no feedback and choose one of them to random lynch today. Tonight, the players with role feedbacks must use their actions and we see the corresponding claims tomorrow morning. Then, if the sheriff has found a guilty person, we can use that or any other gathered information to lynch. In the absence of other information, we can lynch another person whose role gives no feedback messages.

I think this gives us the most useful information out of any plan I could think of. What do other people think?
Leia
25-06-2012, 02:42 AM
Going to work soon.
I'll be able to post again after I come home.
I hope to see many replies to my idea!
Mkoll
25-06-2012, 03:07 AM
1. Why haven't you posted nearly as much today as you have yesterday?
2. What non-town roles would you speculate are present in this vault?
3. Should we lynch you today for acting suspicious?

1. I haven't posted as much today as yesterday because I've been watching my nephew because my sister just went to jail
2. I'm a pessimist - having said that, I would assume the 1 orange mafia and at the very least 1 non-town killing role and 1 other neutral bringing the total composition to 6town 3 non-town. This is my idea of what would make a very interesting couple nights in the vault & Luna seems to be all about making things interesting so far.
3. Nothing I've done has been suspicious really, and asking me whether or not you should lynch me is ridiculous. What do you want me to say? lol. I personally don't like the odds of hitting town vs hitting non-town so as of right this second I don't think anyone should be lynched. However, if there is some evidence that points one way or the other in my eyes I will vote

What about you, Ms. Lurker? You've got 10 posts total and you've already learned enough to want to be casting suspicion on to other people.
1. Based on your posting pattern today (15 hours ago, 8 hours ago, 8 hours ago, 43 minutes ago 27 hours ago) you've been pretty lurky, especially considering the fact that you seem to have had the time to go through an analyze everything. Why is this?
2. You justify your FoS by saying it's because I posted a ton yesterday and not much today so that makes me suspicious. Why are you less suspicious because you have 7 total posts today? Pot calling the kettle black if you ask me.

Now, you're all about random lynching without any real justification.
Not only do you want a random lynch, but you want a soft role claim after FoSing me for doing something that you've done.
Tsk tsk tsk, are you new at this or something?
Mkoll
25-06-2012, 03:13 AM
& even if we do this supposed soft role claim, how are we going to determine anything based on night actions with feedback?
Mafia in this game DO have potential to give normal feedback at night (drug dealer). How would we be able to be certain that any feedback given to anyone by anyone would be legit at all & not a drug effect? If we're looking for a roleblock to softly "prove someone's role" how do we know it's not consort?
Leia
25-06-2012, 04:05 AM
& even if we do this supposed soft role claim, how are we going to determine anything based on night actions with feedback?
Mafia in this game DO have potential to give normal feedback at night (drug dealer). How would we be able to be certain that any feedback given to anyone by anyone would be legit at all & not a drug effect? If we're looking for a roleblock to softly "prove someone's role" how do we know it's not consort?

The soft role claim acknowledges that some mafia roles DO have the potential to give normal feedback messages. In fact, it plays off of this, fact, so that a mafia member in this vault will be forced to use a non-killing night action in order to "claim" their town-sided role counterpart. This serves two purposes - to prevent mafia from killing and forcing them to use their action that gives feedback, and it lets us lock in potential mafia roles later down the line. i.e. if we happen to have two "escorts" in this vault, it would be extremely likely that one of them was actually a consort or a drug dealer. This gives us a lot more information than herp-derping around doing nothing.

Killing neutrals or other mafia members such as a mafioso will not have any actions they can perform that give feedback, so they will be candidates for the "random" lynch. In my opinion, even if we mistakenly lynch a sheriff that doesn't know his alignment, the chances for lynching killing scum is increased with my plan. Doesn't this make sense? We get people out of the way such as jailors, architects, bus drivers, escorts, etc with easily provable roles based on feedback and then random lynch based on whoever remains.

The way I am proposing, if you have a role that gives feedback, claim it in this thread before night begins. Tomorrow, if you were role blocked, etc. claim "given feedback" - do not differentiate whether or not you were role blocked, jailed, etc. If the numbers of "given feedback" claims match the numbers of "givers of feedback" claims, then we should consider those who claimed feedback givers "cleared" from being lynch targets. We would expect that the numbers of feedback claims should stay the same, forcing a drug dealer or consort to once again forefit their night action in order to provide a feedback message and avoid being lynched. If the number of feedback claims we expect do not match up with the numbers that actually come through, the feedback givers might then be asked to claim which messages they gave out to which players. The people who recieved feedback can confirm, and we can weed out people who falsely claimed they have roles that give out feedback.

imo, killing neutrals or a mafioso is screwed because he has no feedback messages to pretend to give out. He could pretend to give feedback to a mafia buddy in this vault, but again, this gives us important information that show connections between players.


In response to your FOS on me for being a "lurker", I am simply being consistent about my playstyle. I cannot post a lot during certain times of the day due to my schedule. (posting at work is generally frowned upon.) You, on the other hand, were very present on Day 0, spamming left and right. I was simply pointing out that I found it odd that you were lurking so much compared to Day 0 when you posted a significant amount. I found that this might mean you posted a lot on Day 0 in order to falsely inflate your post count so that you could lurk on later days without facing as severe repercussions as another lurky player such as King. Why do you FOS me, and not King? By your logic, King is even more "lurky" than I am. Your argument against me has no weight since I am not FOS'ing you for lurking today, I am FOS'ing your posting pattern of spam posting Day 0 and then switching to massive lurk today (until I called you out on it).
Larkin
25-06-2012, 04:09 AM
If we semi-random lynch someone today and tomorrow, then I think that helps us since we can narrow down the list of people that includes the orange mafia. How would people feel about this? I think that a lynch gives us more information than no lynch.

Plan:
People claim if a. their role gives easily verifiable night feedback such as a role block, etc. or b. if their role does not give feedback. That way, a mafia consort would be forced to use their night action to role block instead of kill, thus helping the town avoid a kill if the consort wishes to remain "hidden".

We gather a list of the roles with no feedback and choose one of them to random lynch today. Tonight, the players with role feedbacks must use their actions and we see the corresponding claims tomorrow morning. Then, if the sheriff has found a guilty person, we can use that or any other gathered information to lynch. In the absence of other information, we can lynch another person whose role gives no feedback messages.

I think this gives us the most useful information out of any plan I could think of. What do other people think?

Why do you assume the sheriff here is sane?

Why do you assume there is a consort in here?

I think your plan has holes, a random lynch is more likely to end up worse for town.

What stops the mafia from claiming they get no feedback and just killing someone?
Leia
25-06-2012, 04:15 AM
I do not assume the sheriff here is sane. If you read my earlier post, I assumed we should NOT assume the sheriff in this vault is sane just because the revealed sheriff on the large role list is sane.

I do not assume there is a consort in here, I was listing it as one of many possible mafia roles that would want to use their regular night action to WIFOM the townsided counterpart in order to give a feedback message. This mafia member would not be able to kill if they used their regular night action such as giving a role block.

I acknowledge that this plan has some holes, one being that a mayor cannot reveal himself until outside of the vault, and thus he does have a feedback message that he cannot yet reveal to clear himself. However, I believe that this plan can expose a lot of connections and information that we would otherwise not gain. A random lynch of people who do not give feedback is more likely to eliminate a killing neutral or a mafioso simply because it takes away town members such as a jailor or an architect who give feedback messages out of the pool of people who we are choosing a lynch target from.

I don't fully understand your last question, but if a mafia claims they did not recieve feedback when they did, if we lynch the person who said they gave the mafia member feedback, it will immediately be obvious that the person lied, therefore casting said mafia member under heightened suspicion.
Leia
25-06-2012, 04:17 AM
Anybody who does not like my plan, please propose an alternative. It was after much thought that I devised this plan to provide us with the most useful information possible within the constraints of this vault. This is not to say that it would be the best plan, this is just the best I could think up. If there is a better plan, please share it.
Chewbacca
25-06-2012, 04:24 AM
Anybody who does not like my plan, please propose an alternative. It was after much thought that I devised this plan to provide us with the most useful information possible within the constraints of this vault. This is not to say that it would be the best plan, this is just the best I could think up. If there is a better plan, please share it.

I agree that a lynch would be preferable to a no-lynch, but I have my heart set on Greedo.

In regards to your plan, I don't really see the point of it. The whole point of everyone not claiming is to make the mafia unsure of who to kill. What you're suggesting is just an inferior version of a mass claim. I'm against a mass claim though for a couple reasons, 1) it's boring and defeats the purpose of the game, and 2) with the amount of hidden roles it won't do much, we'll just be sitting here with more cit claims than there actually are. And I wouldn't be surprised if at least a few of the real town power roles claimed citizen as well, so it's not like it'll accomplish much at this point.

But yeah, if we're going to kill anybody, I say it be Greedo.
Larkin
25-06-2012, 04:27 AM
Sorry I'm not good at coming up with plans, I usually get orders from my sergeant Mkoll and then criticise them until they make sense.

I admit I didn't read the long post you posted right before mine, and it answers most of my questions.

Your plan could give us valuable info, I'm just not a fan of the random voting. Town power roles may want to hide as citizens and lynching them would kind of suck. That's all.
Monica
25-06-2012, 04:37 AM
I agree that a lynch would be preferable to a no-lynch, but I have my heart set on Greedo.

In regards to your plan, I don't really see the point of it. The whole point of everyone not claiming is to make the mafia unsure of who to kill. What you're suggesting is just an inferior version of a mass claim. I'm against a mass claim though for a couple reasons, 1) it's boring and defeats the purpose of the game, and 2) with the amount of hidden roles it won't do much, we'll just be sitting here with more cit claims than there actually are. And I wouldn't be surprised if at least a few of the real town power roles claimed citizen as well, so it's not like it'll accomplish much at this point.

But yeah, if we're going to kill anybody, I say it be Greedo.
You seem extremely bent on wanting to lynch Greedo, Either there is something I'm missing, Or your an Executioner wanting to vote Greedo? But i could be missing something i guess.
Monica
25-06-2012, 04:39 AM
Why do you assume the sheriff here is sane?

Why do you assume there is a consort in here?

I think your plan has holes, a random lynch is more likely to end up worse for town.

What stops the mafia from claiming they get no feedback and just killing someone?
I see a few holes in the plan also, But we don't have to random lynch, We could always pressure people into saying their roles and use that for the big meet later once we hit day 4.
Leia
25-06-2012, 04:41 AM
I agree that a lynch would be preferable to a no-lynch, but I have my heart set on Greedo.

In regards to your plan, I don't really see the point of it. The whole point of everyone not claiming is to make the mafia unsure of who to kill. What you're suggesting is just an inferior version of a mass claim. I'm against a mass claim though for a couple reasons, 1) it's boring and defeats the purpose of the game, and 2) with the amount of hidden roles it won't do much, we'll just be sitting here with more cit claims than there actually are. And I wouldn't be surprised if at least a few of the real town power roles claimed citizen as well, so it's not like it'll accomplish much at this point.

But yeah, if we're going to kill anybody, I say it be Greedo.

My plan would encourage mafia members who can fake town-sided role counterparts to fake town-sided role counterparts and bypass night kills.

You want to random lynch Greedo. If he claims to have a role, proveable via feedback message results, then wouldn't we naturally want to lynch someone else that does not have a role softly proveable via feedback messages? Yes, a consort or a drug dealer for example can fake being an escort, but this plan forces those types of roles to use their actions instead of killing while they are inside the vault. Basically if Greedo claims "hey I'm jailor, I can prove it tonight" then wouldn't we naturally move to the next lynch target?

The plan I proposed is a means of hiding exact roles from the mafia instead of forcing specific people put on the spot to claim. It also helps expedite our focus for day lynches by completely eliminating people with "proveable" roles from our pool of possible lynches.

If people are generally not on board with the plan (it seems they are not), then we do not have to go through with it. I was trying to offer an alternative to a purely random lynch and offer some direction and organization with which we could proceed.

I would like to hear at least a couple more opinions on the plan before we fully decide to scrap it. If they are also negative opinions, I pass the burden of coming up with our collective vault plan onto the rest of you.
Larkin
25-06-2012, 06:20 AM
If all else fails, we could accept our fate and just party until the world ends. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzU9OrZlKb8
FM Game Master
25-06-2012, 07:04 AM
Is the Sheriff in our vault's role list necessarily a Sane Sheriff or could they be any of the sheriffs?
He can be any Sheriff variant, the role list just confirms that someone received the Sheriff role card in this vault :)

Does the Gypsy Lady's role reveal occur on the in-vault role list, or for the overall role list? If the Gypsy Lady guesses a role in another vault, can the role be revealed in another vault, and not necessarily in the vault the Gypsy Lady is in?
The Gypsy Lady's current night actions are restricted to the vault - if she can guess a role which is in the vault, it will appear in the overall roles list. If a role is in another vault but not in this one and she guesses it, her night action will be unsuccessful.
Greedo
25-06-2012, 07:33 AM
Going to ignore Chewbacca for now lest I die of laughter.

@Leia, your plan certainly isn't without merit and I for one can appreciate that you've put a lot of thought into it. What I do like about it is it forces the scum to lie, or risk exposure and wherever we can force them to tell a lie that's a great thing because if we can expose the lie we can expose them. So that's definitely a +

I suppose the most obvious negatives come from the fact that we are in turn handing over a ton of information to the scum, the mafia of which can then pass straight on to their compatriots. If we do go with the plan, we're essentially splitting ourselves into 1) a group of citizens + PRs and 2) a group of pure PRs. This makes me quite reluctant because a common mafia philosophy is simply that it's good to hit any PR, no matter what type they are. Unfortunately, this could pose huge dangers to the group of pure PRs (the group that says they give feedback) for the rest of the game.

The second negative is that unfortunately there's no way to guarantee every townie will be compliant to this sort of a plan. It's entirely possible that a bus driver/escort/ gunsmith kind of role may be entirely unwilling to lump themselves in the confirmed PR group and instead jump themselves into the no feedback group. This would make interpreting things a nightmare for us, and also put the PRs who did tell the truth in even more danger because there'll be an even smaller group of them.

Even if we don't end up putting a plan into action I really appreciate people taking the time and effort to come up with an idea that may be useful so thanks Leia.

Tebow and King are still yet to post a single line here.
Leia
25-06-2012, 11:29 AM
Just got off work so I should be able to post more now and until the end of day when I go to sleep.

I guess I just feel like when we push for a lynch, a PR will end up revealing to avoid getting lynched. It seems silly and inefficient for us to go through the whole FOS to lynch train process on one candidate only to have them reveal as a confirmable PR role, because that exposes them just as much. In any case, I have some other ideas, too, that I believe can help us either immediately or in the long run.




Tonight, make sure to update your last will with some silly phrase so a sleuth/dirty sleuth will be able to role claim by quoting your last will if they are getting lynched tomorrow.

In case of a disguiser outside the vault, I believe we should come up with groupwide disguiser checks to perform outside of the vault if there is a cleaned corpse presented at the beginning of day. If there is only orange mafia in this vault, then at least it would be a valid disguiser check against red mafia. If red and orange mafia are in this vault, that would be other good information to learn later if someone passes the disguiser check yet we suspect them of being disguised as. We should discuss this on day 2 because there is the possibility of lynching mafia tomorrow or having mafia die at night.

I'm sure these ideas can be met with more enthusiasm. I am disappointed that more people do not want a lynch, because it is the town's big way of obtaining information.
Leia
25-06-2012, 12:00 PM
Is anyone else disturbed by Mkoll's behavior? He made many posts yesterday to spam to increase his post count so he can contribute minimally today and then accuse others of lurking when he has contributed much less on Day 1. In my opinion, if we random lynch anybody, we should lynch Mkoll both for his scummy posting patterns and more importantly his using his post count as leverage with his accusation against me. I find his reasoning for finding me suspicious very suspicious.

Let's analyze this again, for those of you who haven't been keeping up to date. I'm really disappointed that more people didn't post while I was at work. I fully expected everyone to come online and participate in the discussion of my proposal so we could have more discussion in the evening until day ends.


3. Nothing I've done has been suspicious really, and asking me whether or not you should lynch me is ridiculous. What do you want me to say? lol. I personally don't like the odds of hitting town vs hitting non-town so as of right this second I don't think anyone should be lynched. However, if there is some evidence that points one way or the other in my eyes I will vote

Mkoll's counter to me saying he is suspicious for mass spam posting on Day 0 and lurking today in a perceived attempt to hide as scum is that "Nothing I've done has been suspicious really". Ok. You counter my FOS on your posting habits with a non-responsive answer. That does nothing to convince me of your innocence. Either scum or a person terrible at argumentation.

He "doesn't like the odds of hitting town vs. non town" which is understandable. I agree with this statement but would add that in a completely random lynch yes completely. However in a scumhunted lynch, even with only Day 0 and Day 1 chat information to go off of, the odds of hitting non town is presumably increased based on suspicious behavior that town has to go off of. What type of behavior is more suspicious than a player who spam posts on Day 0 and then flips 180 degrees and posts minimally on Day 1 until FOS'ed and prodded.


What about you, Ms. Lurker? You've got 10 posts total and you've already learned enough to want to be casting suspicion on to other people.
1. Based on your posting pattern today (15 hours ago, 8 hours ago, 8 hours ago, 43 minutes ago 27 hours ago) you've been pretty lurky, especially considering the fact that you seem to have had the time to go through an analyze everything. Why is this?

He a. asserts that I have been lurky, when in fact, his own post count and content for today has not been much better. If anything, I take his accusation of myself as a lurker as a self accusation of lurking via transitive property. He asks why I have been lurking. I had not much to say until I thought up my plan and found a scummy target to FOS.


2. You justify your FoS by saying it's because I posted a ton yesterday and not much today so that makes me suspicious. Why are you less suspicious because you have 7 total posts today? Pot calling the kettle black if you ask me.

How is this situation the pot calling the kettle black? Far from it. Let me break it down for you. Mkoll spam posts to get his post count into the high/mid 20's on Day 0. Mkoll posts a total of 4 posts today. Leia posts around 5 posts yesterday, and increases participation today since we have been given our roles and it is no longer troll day. Mkoll describing this situation as "the pot calling the kettle black" is highly misinformed and slanderous. I called him out not simply for his lurking today, but his combined lurking mixed with his extremely high post count on Day 0. Honestly, Stan also falls into this category, but he has been more active than Mkoll, so I ignored Stan for now to focus on pressuring Mkoll. If Mkoll does not understand the source of my FOS, we should dispose of him for having a scummy behavior, being terrible at responding to arguments, and doing little to defend himself.


1. I haven't posted as much today as yesterday because I've been watching my nephew because my sister just went to jail

Furthermore, he tries to appeal to emotion as to why he could not post more by sharing a story of his sister going to jail. He tries to leverage our emotions to let him get away with his scummy posting behaviour.
Mkoll
25-06-2012, 12:50 PM
Is anyone else disturbed by Mkoll's behavior? He made many posts yesterday to spam to increase his post count so he can contribute minimally today and then accuse others of lurking when he has contributed much less on Day 1. In my opinion, if we random lynch anybody, we should lynch Mkoll both for his scummy posting patterns and more importantly his using his post count as leverage with his accusation against me. I find his reasoning for finding me suspicious very suspicious.

Let's analyze this again, for those of you who haven't been keeping up to date. I'm really disappointed that more people didn't post while I was at work. I fully expected everyone to come online and participate in the discussion of my proposal so we could have more discussion in the evening until day ends.



Mkoll's counter to me saying he is suspicious for mass spam posting on Day 0 and lurking today in a perceived attempt to hide as scum is that "Nothing I've done has been suspicious really". Ok. You counter my FOS on your posting habits with a non-responsive answer. That does nothing to convince me of your innocence. Either scum or a person terrible at argumentation.

He "doesn't like the odds of hitting town vs. non town" which is understandable. I agree with this statement but would add that in a completely random lynch yes completely. However in a scumhunted lynch, even with only Day 0 and Day 1 chat information to go off of, the odds of hitting non town is presumably increased based on suspicious behavior that town has to go off of. What type of behavior is more suspicious than a player who spam posts on Day 0 and then flips 180 degrees and posts minimally on Day 1 until FOS'ed and prodded.



He a. asserts that I have been lurky, when in fact, his own post count and content for today has not been much better. If anything, I take his accusation of myself as a lurker as a self accusation of lurking via transitive property. He asks why I have been lurking. I had not much to say until I thought up my plan and found a scummy target to FOS.



How is this situation the pot calling the kettle black? Far from it. Let me break it down for you. Mkoll spam posts to get his post count into the high/mid 20's on Day 0. Mkoll posts a total of 4 posts today. Leia posts around 5 posts yesterday, and increases participation today since we have been given our roles and it is no longer troll day. Mkoll describing this situation as "the pot calling the kettle black" is highly misinformed and slanderous. I called him out not simply for his lurking today, but his combined lurking mixed with his extremely high post count on Day 0. Honestly, Stan also falls into this category, but he has been more active than Mkoll, so I ignored Stan for now to focus on pressuring Mkoll. If Mkoll does not understand the source of my FOS, we should dispose of him for having a scummy behavior, being terrible at responding to arguments, and doing little to defend himself.



Furthermore, he tries to appeal to emotion as to why he could not post more by sharing a story of his sister going to jail. He tries to leverage our emotions to let him get away with his scummy posting behaviour.

I explained myself already.
Get off my nuts pls.
Kthx.
Mkoll
25-06-2012, 12:52 PM
BTW you never accused me of trying "hide the fact that I'm scum." Naturally, I wouldn't have been able to refute it if you hadn't accused me of it in the first place. I gave you a valid explanation of the variation in post count between yesterday and today, if you can't accept that then so be it.
FM Radio
25-06-2012, 01:07 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LKHpM1UeDA)7LKHpM1UeDA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LKHpM1UeDA)
Mkoll
25-06-2012, 01:08 PM
KILLMEPLS

LOL JESUS CHRIST
Mkoll
25-06-2012, 01:09 PM
Going for page 5
Mkoll
25-06-2012, 01:09 PM
PAGE 55555555555
Mkoll
25-06-2012, 01:09 PM
Fuck it.
Leia
25-06-2012, 01:45 PM
It's already 19:45. We have until 1:00 to make a lynch. Leia is doubtful we will accomplish anything further today even though we still have 5 more hours.
Stan
25-06-2012, 01:57 PM
[color=cyan]-vote FM Radio[/cyan]
Stan
25-06-2012, 01:58 PM
-vote FM Radio


Wow I failed lol -5 points to me.....
Tebow
25-06-2012, 02:27 PM
What is lurk?
I am not larkin
not larkin
no more

Hallo town. I have successfully put my account to 5 posts per page 8), and now that my ears are not being bombarded by vuvuzelas, I will happily join in the discussion.
I agree with leia's plan. The soft role claims will help town gather information about the other players in the vault. These role claims will NOT help the mafia because the high majority of people (and possibly every single person) either is scum with an action or a town PR. The role list of the vault already confirms pretty much every one of us as a PR. The mafia already have AT THE VERY LEAST a 5/8 chance to hit a town PR. If one of the random anys is an orange mafia, they have at least a 5/7 chance.

Odds are, PRs will die.

I like the idea of making scum claim if they have feedback because it gives us information on people in the game. Scum will be held accountable for their night actions, and it will prevent them from doing the night actions that they might want because they will be forced to make night actions that appear town.

However, I disagree that people should claim when they received feedback. We should use these claims to confirm people's roles, after they have claimed themselves. Simply looking at the number of feedback messages received is not really very helpful because there are roles that will cause more or less messages to occur. Bus drivers, kidnappers, and architects will inflate the feedback number, a jailor could cause people to not receive feedback even if they were targeted. A person could be killed the same night they were targeted by a feedback-giving role. Roles such as the whore do not have a steady feedback count at all. Medical students will not know they give feedback and mess up the feedback number. Gunsmiths may choose not to give out guns. Feedback giving roles can be roleblocked by others.

tl;dr feedback messages should be used to confirm peoples role after the people who give feedback messages claim. We may want to do a vault mass claim day 3, especially if we lynch a mafia before then.

About the pressure for tomorrow: If we pressure one of the people who claimed to not give feedback, we will have a much higher success rate in lynching scum.
With sheer numbers alone, town PRs are more likely to give feedback than mafia PRs:
A LIST OF ROLES THAT GIVE FEEDBACK:

Possible Mafia Roles: Godfather, Consigliere, Mafioso, Framer, Consort, Blackmailer, Janitor, Disguiser, Interceptor, Grave Robber, Kidnapper, Lawyer, Ventriloquist, Fabricator, Actress, Drug Dealer, Dirty Sleuth
3 out of 17 roles of the mafia give claimable feedback (blackmailer does not count because that is not feedback that town will give - the blackmailer would not be wise to claim that he gives feedback.) 14 of 17 do not. It is therefore much more likely that the mafia will be in the group of people that do not have a feedback message.

Possible Hidden Town Roles: Citizen, Sheriff, Mayor, Detective, Lookout, Bus Driver, Doctor, Escort, Coroner, Journalist, Jailor, Veteran, Vigilante, Whore, Armoursmith, Gunsmith, Mortician, Naive/Paranoid/Insane Sheriff, Spy, Watchman, Sex Toy Manufacturer, Enchantress, Hitman, Bodyguard, Architect, Saboteur, Gypsy Lady, Dreamer, Medical Student, Traumatised Surgeon, Sleuth, Mason Assassin, Mason Enforcer
Out of the 33 town roles, 13 give feedback. It is more likely for a feedback giving role to be town than mafia.

Possible Hidden Neutral Roles: Jester, Executioner, Student, Amnesiac, Ghost, Survivor, Ninja, Witch, Corrupt Journalist, Soul Thief, Arms Dealer, Cult Leader, Chairman, Serial Killer, Arsonist, Devourer, Spree Killer, Ravager
Out of the 17 neutral roles, 3 can claim to give feedback - again, only a small minority of the roles will be in the group of people that claim to give feedback.

When pressured, some of the town roles that do not give feedback can clear themselves, and some give us information about others in the vault:
Possible Hidden Town Roles: Citizen, Sheriff, Mayor, Detective, Lookout, Doctor, Coroner, Veteran, Vigilante, Mortician, Naive/Paranoid/Insane Sheriff, Spy, Watchman, Bodyguard, Saboteur, Gypsy Lady, Dreamer, Medical Student, Traumatised Surgeon, Sleuth
8 of the 20 town roles that can be pressured can possibly confirm their roles. It is therefore very unlikely that we will mislynch a town role if we follow leia's plan, especially with the information gotten by PRs in the night.
Tebow
25-06-2012, 02:31 PM
I do not believe we will get a list of these roles to claim today however. The pressuring will most likely have to start tomorrow, when we have a night's worth of actions to give us more information.
Chewbacca
25-06-2012, 02:33 PM
Hey guys, before day ends, what do you say we kill Greedo?
Mkoll
25-06-2012, 03:06 PM
Hey guys, before day ends, what do you say we kill Greedo?

I think you're exec WIFOMing non exec.
Just a feeling.
Greedo
25-06-2012, 05:25 PM
[SIZE=1][COLOR="#F0F8FF"]
Hallo town. I have successfully put my account to 5 posts per page 8), and now that my ears are not being bombarded by vuvuzelas, I will happily join in the discussion.
I agree with leia's plan. The soft role claims will help town gather information about the other players in the vault. These role claims will NOT help the mafia because the high majority of people (and possibly every single person) either is scum with an action or a town PR. The role list of the vault already confirms pretty much every one of us as a PR. The mafia already have AT THE VERY LEAST a 5/8 chance to hit a town PR. If one of the random anys is an orange mafia, they have at least a 5/7 chance.

FM GM has assured me that Hidden NCR may include Citizen, which I think considerably distort these odds you've calculated. Something to bear in mind.
FM Game Master
25-06-2012, 06:50 PM
Well folk--bsstt*-- good night! Hop**zzrtztztttz**

See you tomorrow!

[Lando]

Okay, after reading through day 2: You are dead. You have no chance to escape your predicament. All you can hope for is that Monica was Escort before she got her soul stolen. That way we still got a chance to kill.

I wonder how the roleblock got redirected... Might be just a fake claim by Soul Stealer to set him up us additional Escort.

Now we need to find a good target to kill for you. It will be your last action.
Roles:
Bus Driver - Tebow (fake block claim)
Sheriff - Mkoll (blocked - not claimed)
Detective - Greedo
Escort/Armorsmith - Monica
Journalist - Leia
Soul Stealer - Larkin (stole from Monica)

Leia's armor received claim was probably bullshit and the bus drive instead.

So what's your number 1 priority guys?

[King]

I agree, I'm dead, sorry guys. I'll kill who ever you want

[Bragg]

I'd say killing the sheriff should be our priority. The detective won't do much good against most of our surviving players and we can use him to get information on our enemies that he will use to push for lynches. There's a chance the sheriff is useless, but I'm not willing to take that chance. Are you sure Mkoll is the sheriff?

[King]

NO I think she's likely a neutral. I suspected bus driver but no proof of that either. I pointed Stan as the Sheriff, that is where the sheriff got involved. He went a claimed another role


I'd say killing the sheriff should be our priority. The detective won't do much good against most of our surviving players and we can use him to get information on our enemies that he will use to push for lynches. There's a chance the sheriff is useless, but I'm not willing to take that chance. Are you sure Mkoll is the sheriff?

[Forum Mafia GM]

The cut off for night actions is almost here.

Are you guys killing Greedo or not? It would help if I could finalise the night action list ASAP ^^

[King]

I was asked to kill Mkoll

-kill Mkoll

[Lando]

I am not totally sure. I had time to read one time through the whole thing. Not much backtracking on my part. But Mkoll is my best guess.

[Lando]

There is quite a lot of information in those day chats. At least the last one. We need to draw as much information from it as possible. What are your guesses on the roles of the remaining players?