Vault 21

[Vick]

Yo dudes, per Lando's suggestion I'm making my vault its own thread. Here's the full posting for interested parties:

Welcome... to Vault 21.

No one would have believed before the War that life in a Fallout Shelter would be worse than life in a violent, apocalyptic wasteland. Then again, no one would have believed the depths of depravity that the Vault-Tec researchers were willing to sink to in the name of 'science'.

When the vault first opened, you were thankful for the security and safety that Vault-Tec offered. You and your family followed hundreds of other fearful and desperate people underground into the vault, thinking only of survival. What you found was not... bad. Vault 21 was not a luxurious place, but it was not unbearable. While it was built like a rat maze with small, cramped passageways and a confusing array of interconnecting thoroughfares and anterooms, the facility was at least large and had all the amenities of life available through automated life preservation systems. The first few years of vault life were claustrophobic but bearable. The automated vending machines provided the vault dwellers with an endless supply of clean rations, and with little else to do everyone got on with repopulating the planet.

One fateful day, just as the vault reached critical mass, all of the automated systems simultaneously (and mysteriously) suffered catastrophic failure...

It is the year 2021. The once crowded access halls of Vault 21 are barren. Rust and blood covers the walls, and every room is as silent as a morgue. Only nine of you remain. Lights flicker as the vault pumps in the minimal amount of air and electricity necessary, and in the gloom of the vault the survivors sit in silence.

News of the New California Republic filtered through a few days ago, and the NCR promised a life of peace and normality. This was welcome news to the survivors. The news that traitorous elements may be hiding among them was met with less joy.

Eventually someone spoke up.

"If they... if they find out what happened here..."

No one looked each other in the eye. A reply came from the other corner of the room.

"They won't find out. The vault opens in a few days. We have all suffered, but soon we can put this all behind us."

"But what of the Enclave? The Brotherhood of Steel? They surely already know, if they have agents hiding among us."

"We must still survive to see the door open. Until then we must continue as we have, the only way we know how."

The inhabitants of Vault 21 eyed each other suspiciously, in anticipation of the coming ritual...

---

The NCR, Enclave, and Brotherhood of Steel are currently en route to the Vault-Tec installation.

Vault 21 will open in three days, on the third night.

Vault 21 will consist of three day cycles with two night cycles. All kills and night actions will behave as normal.

During each day, players may vote to lynch a single player as normal.

Due to the dire need for sustenance in the vault, when a player is lynched their name, role and alignment will not be shown in the graveyard. Instead the vault inhabitants will overpower the lynch target, kill him, and then strip the flesh from his bones.

This act of cannibalism will cause lynched players to show up as ??? in the graveyard. A lynched player may not have a last will, and an autopsy may not discover the true identity or role of the victim. Coroners, Morticians, Grave Robbers, Amnesiacs and other roles which interact with dead bodies will still behave as normal, just the identity and role of the victim are kept hidden.

---

Role List for Vault 21:

Hidden Brotherhood of Steel
Hidden Wastelander
Hidden NCR
Hidden NCR
Citizen
Hidden Any
Hidden Any
Hidden Any
Hidden Any

---

Participants of Vault 21:

Brees
Eddy
Luke
Manning
Rawne
Owen
Tarkin
Vick
Wedge

[Vick]

So, it seems we've got some kinda super secret artifact and have to resort to cannibalism. Awesome. At least I'm not alone in there, Tarkin's with me.

[Vick]

Thoughts people?

I guess I could do the kill on N1, with Tarkin preemptively robbing whoever so he can get an action faster. Of course, since my natural cover would be as a Bus Driver if I skip a night of busing they might not by my claim if I take heat.

[Bragg]

I think it's better to have an alibi. Let Tarkin do the kill and bus some people around yourself. Cant decide a target yet because you cant perform actions until night 1.

Thats what it says in my vault FAQ anyway and it's probably the same for all vaults

[Vick]

Yeah, no N-0 actions.

[Tarkin]

The cannibalism thing is pretty great for me as I should be able to work out their roles from the abilities I get or don't get. We can use this to claim coroner or the dead roles. I think we should be making almost all of our kills here because of how useful that janitor clean will be.

I think Vick needs to be bus driving every night so he has provable actions for every night of the game. It gives him credibility when I'm sent out for a kill that there are a still bus drivings taking place in a supposedly 1 mafia role list. If there's one night where no bus driving is reported, people will think kidnapper being sent for a kill. You could say no random bus drivings on night 1 if that makes you more believable though.

The disadvantage of having 2 mafia members is there is an very high chance that at least one of us will be checked by the time the vault is opened. That could mean trouble if we have a sheriff in our vault.

[Tarkin]

nvm my last post. It's every lynch not every kill.

[Lando]

When getting lynched you will not get to know the role even when autopsying. So claiming Coroner and telling his role is pretty derpy. "He is Scum! Better lynch now - especially if Jester!"

[Vick]

Sadly Lando is correct it seems. I know it says coroner/mortician actions still function on the target but I kinda think they meant all but the role finding, based on the other things FMGM said.

[Bragg]

yeah you will see the last will and night targets and actions used on the victim but not the role. if you want to claim coroner you're going to have to guess who they visited

and we can kill someone in each vault on nights 1 and 2

[Lando]

Maybe you can get away with not driving at all by claiming (if you take the heat) that you don't want the Mafia/Evil Neutrals to narrow down the possiblities from which Vault the Bus Driver came and chose not to drive anyone for those two nights.

[Tarkin]

Good morning, rise and shine vault-dwellers, wake up and greet the next day of the rest of your lives!


I have been contacted by our dear new friends at the NCR and they've been complaining that none of y'all have been responding to their hails. In fact, I aint heard a peep out of ya! You know that Intercommy-thing on the wall? Speak near that once in a while, folks!


Anyway, an NCR column is currently on its way.


This is Roxy with Galaxy Radio, making your spurs jingle, jangle jingle...


Have no fear, Edy is here (and first to post)! But boy am I starving...

Care to fetch me a snack Darling? So long as it looks like food I don't care what it is and I won't ask.

You know, I do hate this situation. Who put us here? I want to go home!

So... Darlings... How are we getting out of here? All join the Edy Squad and lets bust that door open!


Hey there dudes...

I gotta say, I am lookin' forward to not havin' to eat people anymore. I mean, come on, when did eatin' people get fun?

First thing I'm gonna do when we get outta here is hunt down one of them big mutant bears. Bet you could get a couple good steaks outta that.

So what's the dealio for today?


Oh boy. Stuck in some place with people I do not know. I would very much like to contact my fellow ghosts to see if we're all stuck in the same predicament, but alas, I cannot reach them.

Guess it's time to get to know you all. Hey, we might even be on the same side.


Are any of you sexual predators or have ever been convicted of a criminal offense because if you are you have to tell us. Just like a cop has to tell you he is a cop if you ask him. Also anyone want ta start a football game in this vault?


Do we starve if we don't eat enough people?




Originally Posted by Brees
Are any of you sexual predators or have ever been convicted of a criminal offense because if you are you have to tell us. Just like a cop has to tell you he is a cop if you ask him. Also anyone want ta start a football game in this vault?
Sure, I'll be in goal.

Do we get to pick our teams?



Originally Posted by Tarkin
Sure, I'll be in goal.

Do we get to pick our teams?
American Football sure you and me can pick teams. If you want to? Anyone else up for it.


Why are all the lurkers in this vault?

-vote Luke

You look tasty.


I choose Vick. He has the right sort of hair for it. How about you?


Ill take manning. He seems like an alright player.


I'll have Uncle Owen. He can teach me how to play American Football.


K then ill take Rawne then.


England lost unsurprisingly :P

I'll pick Luke.


Am I the only one that sees a problem with playing football in a bloody rat maze with barely any room to move? Not to mention you must be too hungry to play such an energy consuming sport.

You guys are delirious from hunger! Don't worry, Edy will save you... We just need to eat something...

I think plastic with dust sauce works!

-vote Rawne



Originally Posted by Eddy
Am I the only one that sees a problem with playing football in a bloody rat maze with barely any room to move? Not to mention you must be too hungry to play such an energy consuming sport.

You guys are delirious from hunger! Don't worry, Edy will save you... We just need to eat something...

I think plastic with dust sauce works!

-vote Rawne
Playing football helps us separate the strong from the week. We eat the week.


weak*... I think I am delirious.


Naw, man, let's literally eat an entire unit of time. Time itself shall feed our hunger, and we will become stronger for it!


Delusions won't fill your stomach darlings...

We can't play football here, we need to get out first.


Might as well kill time, eddy. Might as well. We're almost at the advent of our release. We should know each other better when we do it! Nothing builds teamwork like a good, old-fashioned game of football!


So... you'll have to excuse me for my absence. I had no idea what the hell was going on, to be honest.

This mechanic seems so familiar to me, I wonder from where I remember it...


Alright, I've had a read, and here's the deal:
We should under no circumstance lynch until day 3
Why?
Hidden Brotherhood of Steel
Hidden Wastelander
Hidden NCR
Hidden NCR
Citizen
Hidden Any
Hidden Any
Hidden Any
Hidden Any

Here's what we know from the base list:
There is a base 20% chance of lynching non-town, those are awful odds.
There are two nights for kills but 3 days for lynches - we will likely cause more damage to the town than scum will just by letting them kill two people and move on
There are not more than 2 scum in the hidden any(this assumes 5v4 for original town majority)
There are 48 players, with 9-10 people per vault that means there is 5 vaults total, I think it most likely that these vaults are divided into groups of 10 and 9 in a 3-2 split, which totals 48.
This also means that there are likely 4 scum per vault, with one vault having 3 scum. If this is true, it also means that it is most likely that this group of 3 scum is in one of the 9 player vaults because it is 3% more balanced that way.
This means that there is a 44% chance of lynching scum assuming we're in the 4/9 vault, or a 33% of lynching scum assuming we're in the 3/9 vault; still pretty bad odds considering.

Now, here's my best guess as to how this setup is divided. Remember, there are 6 of each mafia and 7 neutrals.

Hidden Brotherhood of Steel BoS - 6 Enclave - 6 Neut - 7 23 town 6 citizen 15 PR - 14 Citizen
Hidden Wastelander
Hidden NCR
Hidden NCR
Citizen
Hidden Any(Enclave)
Hidden Any (PR)
Hidden Any (Citizen)
Hidden Any (Citizen)

Hidden Enclave
Hidden Wastelander
Hidden NCR
Hidden NCR
Citizen
Hidden Any(BoS)
Hidden Any(Neut)
Hidden Any(PR)
Hidden Any(Cit)

Hidden Enclave
Hidden Brotherhood of Steel
Hidden NCR
Hidden NCR
Citizen
Citizen
Hidden Any(Neut)
Hidden Any(BoS)
Hidden Any(PR)
Hidden Any(Cit)

Hidden Enclave
Hidden BoS
Hidden NCR
Hidden NCR
Citizen
Citizen
Hidden Any(Enc)
Hidden Any(Neut)
Hidden Any(PR)
Hidden Any(Cit)

Hidden Enclave
Hidden BoS
Hidden NCR
Hidden NCR
Citizen
Citizen
Hidden Any(Neut)
Hidden Any(Neut)
Hidden Any(PR)
Hidden Any(Cit)


So if we average the two percentage chances of finding scum by lynching based off of non-PR claims, we find that we have a 38.5% chance of correctly finding scum, but if we lynch every day in a 2 KPN environment, only 2 of us will survive, which worst case scenario will be both scum. If every vault does this, the town loses, period. That is not an acceptable strategy.

However, if we wait for the first 2 KPN, and they both hit town there is a flat 50-50 chance average chance of us hitting a non-town. (57% if 4 scum, 42% if 3). Then, if we lynch a KPN in this 50-50 shot, they lose a KPN against town the following night, and we basically win the mini-scenario by only losing half of the town in our vault instead of 4/6 in the worst case scenario. If there are only 3 scum in our vault, we come out ahead.

So tl;dr Don't lynch today, it's statistically anti-town



We should under no circumstance lynch until day 2
Fixed


Hello. Sorry, I didn't realize day 1 ended today. I will try to keep up and contribute more before the deadline. If not I will gladly be interviewed.



Originally Posted by Manning
Might as well kill time, eddy. Might as well. We're almost at the advent of our release. We should know each other better when we do it! Nothing builds teamwork like a good, old-fashioned game of football!
Lets do it! Sorry Eddy we had uneven people in the vault u can be referee though. LET GET READY FOR SUNDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL!

Owen I agree with you plus how the game set up is going (and if no one dies in here) we can create a voting bloc for when the vault residents are released together. Thus with 5-7 people with only 25-49 people we could create a significant advantage for everyone in vault 21.


So we are here two nights and three days. The person we lynch will not have his role revealed ever. No autopsy will be able to reveal it. We can not confirm anyones roles or alignments here.


Also, one other thing: Assuming the other vaults are not as smart as we are, another bonus to this strategy is that we will add a greater ratio of guaranteed town to the mix, due to that 4 scum cap on our vault. There will be absolutely no guarantee in any vault that dips below the 5 person threshold.


Owen, dude. Well put. Especially considering that there is a 0 chance of ever finding out if our Lynch was correct, I'd say we have to be extra careful or scum can hide behind the ??? In our graveyard. If we stick to the plan, this sectionalized vault setup can be used to our advantage for locating scum, particularly in the late game. The last thing we need is yet more ambiguity.


Basically as Brees said dudes.


But no lynch means no food... How long do you expect me to survive huh Owen? Go hunt some cockroaches then, those things live everywhere. What? Beggars can't be choosers.



Originally Posted by Owen
So tl;dr no pressure scum, we'll never lynch you!
@ Brees

This isn't vault wars. If we have no lynches there's going to be a lot of scum coming out of our vault unless they manage to kill each other. That significant voting block could have 4 non-town, 3 town in it so I'm sure it will be advantageous to them.

Do ventriloquists get their smurf account before or after day 0?


Do ventriloquists get their smurf account before or after day 0?
A ventriloquist would have gotten their smurf account before day 0, meaning a ventriloquist would have also effectively received their role card.



Originally Posted by Manning
Might as well kill time, eddy. Might as well. We're almost at the advent of our release. We should know each other better when we do it! Nothing builds teamwork like a good, old-fashioned game of football!
I forgot to address this! You called me eddy. That is so rude... I'm Edy! Learn my name.

Also you look tastier than that plastic man.

-vote Manning


Originally Posted by Tarkin
@ Brees

This isn't vault wars. If we have no lynches there's going to be a lot of scum coming out of our vault unless they manage to kill each other. That significant voting block could have 4 non-town, 3 town in it so I'm sure it will be advantageous to them.

Do ventriloquists get their smurf account before or after day 0?
Point taken. I hadn't considered that. Though it should be noted that if we watch each bloc separately after the merger, we can narrow down scum as each group begins to wither down. The other thing to note is that it's unlikely that any more than two of the scum coming out of each vault (or any in a situation like ours) would actually be allied to one another. It's plausible to assume that there could be a second BoS member in the randoms, but I don't think there would be a third given how small the population is here.

In essence, this sectionalized vault thing can wind up being a lot more handy to town than to them so long as we keep it in mind even past the merger.



Originally Posted by Eddy
But no lynch means no food... How long do you expect me to survive huh Owen? Go hunt some cockroaches then, those things live everywhere. What? Beggars can't be choosers.

Roasted Roach anyone? Extra crispy...
Whoa there dude. Take a chill pill, I'm sensin' some hostility here. The NCR will be here in just a few days, and I'm sure they'll have a few cans of beans and a nuka cola for ya.

Besides, don't ya mean Rad-Roaches? Bit on the big and nasty side for me.



Originally Posted by Tarkin
@ Brees

This isn't vault wars. If we have no lynches there's going to be a lot of scum coming out of our vault unless they manage to kill each other. That significant voting block could have 4 non-town, 3 town in it so I'm sure it will be advantageous to them.

Do ventriloquists get their smurf account before or after day 0?
It still serves no purpose to lynch anyone at this point in time. I say we bide our time for now.




Originally Posted by Tarkin
@ Brees

This isn't vault wars. If we have no lynches there's going to be a lot of scum coming out of our vault unless they manage to kill each other. That significant voting block could have 4 non-town, 3 town in it so I'm sure it will be advantageous to them.

Do ventriloquists get their smurf account before or after day 0?
You didn't read anything I said so I'm just going to assume you're an inept townsman.

A day 1 lynch is all about math, our vault certainly isn't active enough to scumhunt. I doubt it ever will be.

So it makes no sense to lynch when the math is in the scum's favor, when instead we have a greater likelihood of stippling a KPN and thus actually have less deaths inflicted upon town as a result. That is to the town's advantage. Yes, it's theoretically possible that we could hit a KPN by lynching at random today, but the odds are better that we'll be robbing ourselves of an extra name of information.

Further, we will know if we hit a KPN due it's lack of being there on that final day. Lynching on Day 3 would not allow for the same result as Night 3 is a no-action night.


Originally Posted by Vick
In essence, this sectionalized vault thing can wind up being a lot more handy to town than to them so long as we keep it in mind even past the merger.
Yes, very good. That is a major flaw of this setup, one that clearly was not given much thought after the idea was torn from it's original creator. Roles will very quickly be easily deduced. The more town that survive without going lynch happy, the easier it will be to narrow things down pretty much the moment we get out of this.

Take note scum: The more people you kill, the easier you will be found in the aftermath due to your kills not hiding their information like lynching.


Are you saying this was not Luna's idea?

Darling, you are too optimistic about this. Nothing is ever that easy now is it? Though I suppose it would be nice if it turns out that way.


We still get more info and a better chance to win in the long run if we let scum kill each other and us in the vault. We will at least have the information and know who is in our vault.

I agree with owen, I doubt I will ever be convinced to lynch anyone in this vault. We just need to make sure someone lives and posts the correct graveyard information.



Originally Posted by Eddy
Are you saying this was not Luna's idea?

Darling, you are too optimistic about this. Nothing is ever that easy now is it? Though I suppose it would be nice if it turns out that way.
I doubt it'll be easy, but it can be done. Besides it's more fun if it's not.


Edy is a scumhunter!

Or is it a manhunter? Cannibal? You know, i'm hungry. Can we eat the people the mafia kill at night? Otherwise its mutant roaches all day long. Ooh I think I see one! GET IT!


Yes, basing all of my assumptions off of the worst case scenario is being optimistic.

I'm waiting for you to actually contribute something, but I think I'll be waiting a long time.


Whiskey has all the nutrients to support life. Plenty of that stuff around, right?


My point was you have made it impossible to pressure anyone. They know we won't lynch them so why would anyone need to defend themselves or bother talking at all? Whether lynching is a good idea or not, that's not the point.

Brees' post was weird because he suggested we should all vote together in a group to the advantage of vault 21 even though what vault we come from is irrelevant and half the group are likely to be scum by night 3.

I don't think this game will be as easy as you think. Luna doesn't like hard investigative roles and we have 4 random anys that prevent significant narrowing down of roles and don't underestimate host wifom when it comes to random anys.


This is how I'd setup the game with a Ventriloquist. This scenario seems pretty likely, considering there are 52 players and 51 of them have posts, but only 48 roles are listed in the role list. I'm only able to grind the possible dummy accounts down to 49, so take that as you will.

Hidden Brotherhood of Steel BoS - 6 Enclave - 6 Neut - 7 23 town 6 citizen 15 PR - 14 Citizen
Hidden Wastelander
Hidden NCR
Hidden NCR
Citizen
Hidden Any(Enclave)
Hidden Any (Neut)
Hidden Any (PR)
Hidden Any (Citizen)

Hidden Enclave
Hidden Wastelander
Hidden NCR
Hidden NCR
Citizen
Citizen
Hidden Any(BoS)
Hidden Any(Neut)
Hidden Any(PR)
Hidden Any(Cit)

Hidden Enclave
Hidden Brotherhood of Steel
Hidden NCR
Hidden NCR
Citizen
Citizen
Hidden Any(Neut)
Hidden Any(BoS)
Hidden Any(PR)
Hidden Any(Cit)

Hidden Enclave
Hidden BoS
Hidden NCR
Hidden NCR
Citizen
Citizen
Hidden Any(Enc)
Hidden Any(Neut)
Hidden Any(PR)
Hidden Any(Cit)

Hidden Enclave
Hidden BoS
Hidden NCR
Hidden NCR
Citizen
Citizen
Hidden Any(Vent)
Hidden Any(Neut)
Hidden Any(PR)
Hidden Any(Cit)

This means there are 4 scum per vault, which would also mean that our vault is the hardest vault by default.

So my question is: @Tarkin, why did you ask about the ventriloquist?


I don't like Manning.

-vote Manning

Why didn't you post on day 0? I thought you would have liked to troll then.


Oh but I did contribute something Owen! If you're smart you'l find it!

See this machine over here... It gives you a full night's sleep. But you're still hungry! So useless... Ohwait its just a tanning bed, my bad. Its not even working...

Did you get that roach yet? Maybe we should use some traps, what do mutant roaches eat?


i was absent, and notified the hosts in advance.


Can’t play football with sore legs, right?



Originally Posted by Tarkin
My point was you have made it impossible to pressure anyone. They know we won't lynch them so why would anyone need to defend themselves or bother talking at all? Whether lynching is a good idea or not, that's not the point.

Brees' post was weird because he suggested we should all vote together in a group to the advantage of vault 21 even though what vault we come from is irrelevant and half the group are likely to be scum by night 3.

I don't think this game will be as easy as you think. Luna doesn't like hard investigative roles and we have 4 random anys that prevent significant narrowing down of roles and don't underestimate host wifom when it comes to random anys.
1. It's simple. If they take that mindset, they will be easily distinguished by the fact that they're lurking. If they lurk, we can force them to answer questions a la the lurk rule thing. If they don't answer, we can lynch them for free, which I assume does not work the same as the normal lynch which cleans. If they do contribute, it's a moot point because they're contributing and thus will be more likely to slip up. The lurk rule is very much the crux of this strategy, and I recommend you abuse it as much as possible.

2. The fact that he's confused as fuck means pretty much nothing one way or another. The people who caught on the quickest are the most likely to be scum; the people to post the soonest into day starting are the most likely to be scum, have night chats, or are in actual contact with the host. I for one had no idea what was going on because I don't make a habit of logging in before posting.

3. I think you overestimate the fluidity of a setup like this. It is chained to the fact that each mini-game has to be balanced nearly perfectly or the entire thing falls apart. Investigative roles are pretty much irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that there are 4 non-town per vault, the more kills the narrower that pool of people gets, the easier it becomes to find scum. You shouldn't feel so reliant on the sheriff, it makes you weak.



Originally Posted by Owen
So my question is: @Tarkin, why did you ask about the ventriloquist?
I thought it was odd that Manning didn't post on day 0 and his posts today strike me as the sort of distracting nonsense that a smurf might say. Now Luna says that they had their accounts from day 0 so this is unlikely. Doesn't stop him being scummy and useless though.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say with your ventriloquist setup. You've put all the roles into vaults like before but you've added an extra citizen to vault 2 which means we have the least amount of players in our vault? Then you've put a vent in random any but you already have the 6 mafia accounted for in your role list so that would be impossible.


For the better part of the beginning of Day 1, I was in direct contact with the host. As far as "nonsense that a smurf might say," I was saying no more than you fellows were. If others are going to do the figurative arguing, why interrupt?
I like football, and I am a Wastelander.

If we must eat someone, why not make it the dwarf? He has better meat on his bones, and we're sure to get a few steaks out of it!

-vote Tarkin



Originally Posted by Tarkin
I thought it was odd that Manning didn't post on day 0 and his posts today strike me as the sort of distracting nonsense that a smurf might say. Now Luna says that they had their accounts from day 0 so this is unlikely. Doesn't stop him being scummy and useless though.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say with your ventriloquist setup. You've put all the roles into vaults like before but you've added an extra citizen to vault 2 which means we have the least amount of players in our vault? Then you've put a vent in random any but you already have the 6 mafia accounted for in your role list so that would be impossible.
I'm not sure why you find it so confusing, yet you seem to have no problem with the other one.
The balance in the original list came from the fact that two of the vaults were imbalanced in the exact same way, with the other 10 vault having double neutral as the, no pun intended, neutral vault. With 4 vaults of 10, this changes. An extra town has to shift to the extra slot in the new 10 vault, because if the ventriloquist dummy was added to that vault, it would start at 5-5 which is not balanced in the slightest. The only place this town could come from is from the only 9 vault, which leaves a slot in the 9 vault. There are two possibilities here: The ventriloquist dummy is added, giving scum a pretty ridiculous edge in our vault, because that means there is a group of 2 enclave or two BoS and an enclave member in our 5-4 vault as opposed to a 6-4 vault. Or you shift up a neutral from the double neutral 10 vault, and place the ventriloquist in it's place, which is -slightly- imbalanced but the ventriloquist dummy doesn't get an extra action during night so it's passable. This gives our vault 2 neutrals, which if each vault does have 4 scum, makes the most sense.

In fact, it makes more sense this way than the original. Instead of having a vault of 4 scum and a vault of 3 scum in the 9 vaults.



Originally Posted by Owen
1. It's simple. If they take that mindset, they will be easily distinguished by the fact that they're lurking. If they lurk, we can force them to answer questions a la the lurk rule thing. If they don't answer, we can lynch them for free, which I assume does not work the same as the normal lynch which cleans. If they do contribute, it's a moot point because they're contributing and thus will be more likely to slip up. The lurk rule is very much the crux of this strategy, and I recommend you abuse it as much as possible.
The lurk rule says they are replaced. They only get lynched if there are no replacements left and that shouldn't happen for a while.


2. The fact that he's confused as fuck means pretty much nothing one way or another. The people who caught on the quickest are the most likely to be scum; the people to post the soonest into day starting are the most likely to be scum, have night chats, or are in actual contact with the host. I for one had no idea what was going on because I don't make a habit of logging in before posting.
I used to think this but scum usually like to wait a good while before they make their first post for this reason. It's the mid-range posters that are most often scum.


3. I think you overestimate the fluidity of a setup like this. It is chained to the fact that each mini-game has to be balanced nearly perfectly or the entire thing falls apart. Investigative roles are pretty much irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that there are 4 non-town per vault, the more kills the narrower that pool of people gets, the easier it becomes to find scum. You shouldn't feel so reliant on the sheriff, it makes you weak.
You seem to think that the setup is easy because if there are always the same random anys then we can work out the scum from the players left alive. Don't you think Luna and Yayap would have thought of such an easy way to break the setup? This is why we have 4 random anys instead of a full role list.

We might have 1 mafia, 1 neutral, 2 town in our vault while another vault might have 4 benign neutrals or 3 mafia and the sane cop. Each vault does not have to be balanced perfectly because they'll all end up in the same game in the end. One vault could be filled with town and another filled with scum but it won't make much difference because it's only a few days before they're all put back in the same game and it balances out again. I doubt they will make it so boring to have the same 4 random anys in every vault.


I bet Luna is loving this over-analyzing of the setup! It sure it interesting... -chews on a roasted mutant cockroach- *munch* Want some?


Also.. *munch*.. did you guys notice that Manning just claimed being a Wastelander? *munch* Wanna eat him? The roach is okay but I want something more nutritious. *munch* Mmm tastes like chicken after it has been thrown into a volcano.


I hear tell that some of the other vaults get neat things like video games or instruments or shooting ranges.

We just get this crap party game that we're forced into playing.

Fuck you, Vault-Tec. Fuck you. If I wanted monotony with my death I would have just put on a Dean Domino record and drink some turpentine. Loads of the shit around here.



Originally Posted by Manning
For the better part of the beginning of Day 1, I was in direct contact with the host. As far as "nonsense that a smurf might say," I was saying no more than you fellows were. If others are going to do the figurative arguing, why interrupt?
I like football, and I am a Wastelander.

If we must eat someone, why not make it the dwarf? He has better meat on his bones, and we're sure to get a few steaks out of it!

-vote Tarkin
Why am I not surprised you're not town?


Originally Posted by Owen
I'm not sure why you find it so confusing, yet you seem to have no problem with the other one.
The balance in the original list came from the fact that two of the vaults were imbalanced in the exact same way, with the other 10 vault having double neutral as the, no pun intended, neutral vault. With 4 vaults of 10, this changes. An extra town has to shift to the extra slot in the new 10 vault, because if the ventriloquist dummy was added to that vault, it would start at 5-5 which is not balanced in the slightest. The only place this town could come from is from the only 9 vault, which leaves a slot in the 9 vault. There are two possibilities here: The ventriloquist dummy is added, giving scum a pretty ridiculous edge in our vault, because that means there is a group of 2 enclave or two BoS and an enclave member in our 5-4 vault as opposed to a 6-4 vault. Or you shift up a neutral from the double neutral 10 vault, and place the ventriloquist in it's place, which is -slightly- imbalanced but the ventriloquist dummy doesn't get an extra action during night so it's passable. This gives our vault 2 neutrals, which if each vault does have 4 scum, makes the most sense.

In fact, it makes more sense this way than the original. Instead of having a vault of 4 scum and a vault of 3 scum in the 9 vaults.
I don't agree with the random anys you placed in your original one because of what I've said in my last post. What confused me was the ventriloquist you put in when you already had all 12 mafia accounted for but I now know you mean ventriloquist smurf.

You say 5-5 isn't balanced but 5-5 means scum are more likely to hit each other. This type of vault is worse for scum, especially neutrals, because they have a much greater chance of dying from night kills than they do dying from lynches in a town majority vault. Mafia also have a consig so they are better than PRs at finding scum and getting their opposing faction lynched.



Originally Posted by Tarkin
Why am I not surprised you're not town?
My policy is complete honesty. I wouldn't have gotten so far in the NFL if I were lying scum. I readily await interview!


I say town sits this out and let the evils kill each other. You do realize that the kills are spread across the vaults right? So no one in here might die, unless we have a neutral killer. Either way town benefits the most with a no lynch. if it does get to where town loses majority in a few days, who cares. There's a better chance to lynch scum, and it'll be faction versus faction.

And just because we recommend no lynch doesn't mean we can't lynch someone who appears scummy or lurks.
The host will deal with lurkers and afkers, so we can still gather information. Also we will give the town prs time to take action and dig up more clues, instead of accidentally lynching them.

I wouldn't try to predict how the host set up this game with random roles and such. They're could also be a vault with twice the amount of people we have. Just focus on our vault and the people inside.



You seem to think that the setup is easy because if there are always the same random anys then we can work out the scum from the players left alive. Don't you think Luna and Yayap would have thought of such an easy way to break the setup? This is why we have 4 random anys instead of a full role list.
You answered your own question. It is very likely that the hidden anys are the only countermeasure. The only reason I cracked through it so easily is because I am very familiar with it's flaws and how it would be designed if it actually went to production phase.

We might have 1 mafia, 1 neutral, 2 town in our vault while another vault might have 4 benign neutrals or 3 mafia and the sane cop. Each vault does not have to be balanced perfectly because they'll all end up in the same game in the end. One vault could be filled with town and another filled with scum but it won't make much difference because it's only a few days before they're all put back in the same game and it balances out again. I doubt they will make it so boring to have the same 4 random anys in every vault.
No, you see, with the possibility of 7/10ths of every vault population being extinguished before exiting the mini-game, the idea that "we'll all be in the same game in the end" is plain wrong. THIS is the game. After this, it's the endgame. If you play to how they intend you to, there will only be 14 players left alive once we step outside those doors, worst case scenario. Because of this, balance between vaults is EVERYTHING. If you don't, one side basically wins by default, because the entirety of their side of the battle survives in their vault with almost no contest, throwing the entire game out of whack by design.

Do not be deceived by the size of this game, the mafia is getting artificially inflated KPN as a result of the divide, the game size will rapidly diminish over the next two days, we're talking 10 KPN game-wide with a possibility of 15 lynches, before a neutral killer is even considered, (which I'm not going to do, because adding that into the mix is just asinine).



The Enclave and Brotherhood of Steel do not share kills, in the vault the strike force members act independently.
It's worded poorly but it is saying that each mafia member gets his own kill in each vault.


Also, one more thing: high scum, low town and high town, low scum don't cancel each other out. In a short period of time, it's less likely that low scum will be found, while high scum will just wipe out low town no contest. If you think scum will be gentlemen and not say "hey we're all scum, let's work together towards fucking town in the eyesocket" then you're naive.



Originally Posted by Manning
My policy is complete honesty. I wouldn't have gotten so far in the NFL if I were lying scum. I readily await interview!
You mean you readily await being dinner darling... I can't wait myself! -drooling-



Originally Posted by Owen
Also, one more thing: high scum, low town and high town, low scum don't cancel each other out. In a short period of time, it's less likely that low scum will be found, while high scum will just wipe out low town no contest. If you think scum will be gentlemen and not say "hey we're all scum, let's work together towards fucking town in the eyesocket" then you're naive.
There's a flaw with your theory there. In a high scum low town situation, wouldn't the town pretend to be scum too? Like, reversed roles? The scum will townhunt to find the town pretending to be scum...


Originally Posted by Owen
It's worded poorly but it is saying that each mafia member gets his own kill in each vault.
I read that again after I posted. Forgive the misdirection. Yet the fact remains there can still be a relatively low kpn in this vault. If not, we should still refrain from lynching at the moment. We do not want to increase the deaths (without us given any information from it nonetheless). At least when someone is killed we get information.


We don't need to know what Manning is, we know he isn't town. Eat him now! I'm starving!



Originally Posted by Eddy
There's a flaw with your theory there. In a high scum low town situation, wouldn't the town pretend to be scum too? Like, reversed roles? The scum will townhunt to find the town pretending to be scum...
There might only be one scum from each faction here, that would be bold of them. Don't forget town has PRs in here as well. Plus edy made a good point. And then what happens when the vault opens? They remain friends? They will have just given themselves up for slaughter.


Originally Posted by Wedge
Plus edy made a good point.
You got my name right! Love you!



Originally Posted by Eddy
We don't need to know what Manning is, we know he isn't town. Eat him now! I'm starving!
We can lynch Manning on Day 3 when it doesn't matter. Lynching him on the assumption he is telling the truth lowers our chance of hitting a KPN, keeping him alive and believing him at face value increases the chance of us hitting the KPN by excluding him from consideration. You people really disappoint me.

There might only be one scum from each faction here, that would be bold of them. Don't forget town has PRs in here as well. Plus edy made a good point. And then what happens when the vault opens? They remain friends? They will have just given themselves up for slaughter.
Do I really have to outline the strategy of every possibility of balance day-by-day for you to believe that this game is not as majestic and mysterious as you want to believe it is?



Originally Posted by Owen
Do I really have to outline the strategy of every possibility of balance day-by-day for you to believe that this game is not as majestic and mysterious as you want to believe it is?
Yes, please.

I agree with not killing manning though.


]Originally Posted by Owen
We can lynch Manning on Day 3 when it doesn't matter. Lynching him on the assumption he is telling the truth lowers our chance of hitting a KPN, keeping him alive and believing him at face value increases the chance of us hitting the KPN by excluding him from consideration. You people really disappoint me.

Do I really have to outline the strategy of every possibility of balance day-by-day for you to believe that this game is not as majestic and mysterious as you want to believe it is?
How will keeping him alive increase this chance of hitting the KPN? Do you suppose he will kill some mafia for us at night?

Yes please. Outline all the possibilities! You seem to know alot about this setup for some reason. Ooh here's another roach! GOGO!


Mod edit: Please don't post embedded videos.



Originally Posted by Owen
Lynching him on the assumption he is telling the truth lowers our chance of hitting a KPN, keeping him alive and believing him at face value increases the chance of us hitting the KPN by excluding him from consideration.
I don't get what you're saying here.

There are 3 neutrals that will be bad to lynch: jester, ghost and ninja. Amnesiac / student / surv are a bit iffy. The rest are evil.

Manning quickly claimed neutral with little pressure. This means he could be an amnesiac / student / surv who wants to stay safe but doesn't want to pick sides yet (especially amne / student), an evil neutral like the witch who claims for safety then can go under the radar as we focus on bigger threats, a jester or ghost hoping to be lynched, lying as mafia (less desirable scum), lying as town (for safety), a ninja who wants to remain ambiguous for safety or a killing neutral who claimed quickly because why would a killer do that?

Not lynching him now costs us a lynch at a later date if we change our minds. On day 3 we might have found mafia and cannot lynch Manning. Manning then goes into the main game where there are other people to concentrate on + he can cause more damage if lynched as the jester. We're not lynching anyone else today so the only loss is if Manning is the jester or ghost.

2 neutral roles are very bad lynches, 3 could help or harm us, 1 helps. If he's a ninja, surv, student, amne or town he can claim before being lynched. Or we could wait to see if we have a vigi, jailor or gunsmith tonight or wait until we have a vigi, jailor or gunsmith in the main game.


Lynching in general is a bad idea with this setup, there will be a lot of deaths. We should wait a night, see what happens. maybe we get lucky and do not have a killer in the vault with us.


I forgot we have that clean role mechanic. -unvote and see what happens tomorrow then.


*munch* So, we're not eating anyone. *munch* Roach diet it is... I guess its not so bad... *munch* Want some?



Originally Posted by Eddy
*munch* So, we're not eating anyone. *munch* Roach diet it is... I guess its not so bad... *munch* Want some?
I'll take the whiskey.


Well howdy folks! Roxy here. I know I haven't been able to see what's been going on in your vault for years, somehow the security feeds are broken, but I still wanna wish y'all a good night!

Here's one song that always helps me sleep, see you in the morning Vault 21!

[Lando]

Do you already have any preferences for your night actions?

The obvious Bus Driver choice would be Owen-Manning in my opinion.
Owen is holding a major target sign above his head. You could drive him with somebody and attack that somebody - removing any external protection he might get. While it draws some kind of suspicion on the bus driver, it is still the right thing to do (from Town perspective). Claiming bad luck on this should work.
But Mafia attacking a claimed neutral is really suspicious. So switching Owen with a "useless" player (maybe Eddy) might do the trick.

[Lando]

Make sure that if you drive the killing shot to send in the switch targets in the correct order: swap killing target - other target. We don't want to give the Witch two opportunities to direct our kill.

Another possibility would be to switch Owen with Manning and kill someone else (Eddy seems fine - wanted to go for a lynch on the Neutral). On the second night you could try to get Owen "accidentally" killed.

[Tarkin]

I messed up the quoting a bit at the bottom. Whenever there are inverted commas in that big quote it is meant to be a new post.

A semi-eventful day 1. Manning claimed wastelander after only 2 votes. He probably isn't a major neutral but could be a witch/ninja/student etc. or PR who wants to risk there not being a vigi to keep him safe. Owen sets himself up as the town leader with his vault divisions which give scum an extremely high KPN and mean town would have no chance of winning. He's probably town, maybe neutral. A lot of what he says doesn't make sense or his based on incorrect meta but he's the sort of person who can push lynches. I'd like to kill him but he might be healed or watched.

If you drive Owen-Manning it won't look like you're mafia if I attack Owen and it's re-directed on to Manning as scum wouldn't want to kill a claimed neutral. Depends whether we think Manning is a PR / town friendly neut or not.

You might be called out for driving Owen-Manning as it was suggested that the vigi or jailor should kill manning tonight. Maybe driving Owen with someone else scummy or useless like Rawne or Luke would be better

[Lando]

You might be called out for driving Owen-Manning as it was suggested that the vigi or jailor should kill manning tonight. Maybe driving Owen with someone else scummy or useless like Rawne or Luke would be better
Yeah, I forgot about that. That means we can kill Owen tonight.

[Vick]

I was going to suggest driving Owen-Edy as they are both active enough to both confirmed being driven, and we don't have to worry about the manning it coming back on us. Then we kill someone like Wedge or Brees who contributed a bit but not too much that breaks the mold. If that all goes well, we pull an accidental death on Owen on N2, since he's really the only town worth his salt in there and it would help me confirm if he's on my side.

[Tarkin]

You could switch me and Owen because we were both arguing with each other and you think I'm scum, I could shoot myself and the kill will be re-directed on to Owen. It might not be possible but it could be worth trying if it is. Town will only know I've been bus driven until a mortician comes along and is like "look! Owen was switched with Tarkin so Tarkin was attacked and he can't be orange mafia!"

Hopefully the reds or killer will be too scared to shoot Owen and the kill won't be re-directed on to me...

[Bragg]

Owen favors a no lynch which could be in our advantage. I'd suggest not killing him yet, at least wait another day to see what he does. I actually think that killing Eddy is something we might want to do. Town PRs like doctors tend to hide behind trolling and going for a lynch on a neutral is quite pro-town. The only issue is that it was just a claim and manning could just as easily be a town PR WIFOMING neutral to stay alive. I think they're both town, personally.

either bus drive eddy/manning and owen and hope another killer targets Owen, or target him for a kill yourself so eddy/manning dies.

I don't think targeting yourself is possible

[Vick]

Well We don't actually know that there is a Serial Killer in vault 21, and I highly doubt we have Enclave in there with two Brotherhood of Steel already. I guess we can't rule it out, but I doubt it. I would much rather setup an alibi on N1 by having two surviving driven targets and have an "accident" on N2. It wouldn't even be far-fetched to argue that "Scum must have guessed my driving plan after you guys claimed driven yesterday" (If I even have to reveal myself by then.)

Which is why I think we should go ahead with killing Brees, as he was contributing fairly regularly so it might make sense Maf would go for him over the biggest target. If we're lucky there might be a Vigi to take care of Manning for us.

[Bragg]

by the way I will override every action that isn't submitted within the next 3 hours as I won't be here when the night ends and I don't want to waste kills or other actions

[Vick]

Addendum: If we go ahead with killing Brees, I think we should drive Owen/Edy as stated before.

[Lando]

I like the last one best. Switching Owen with Eddy and targeting Owen for the kill. Lots of bonus points for the "Bus Driver" should he need to claim. N2 Owen "accidentally" dies.

[Vick]

Well, are we sure that won't look too... contrived?

[Lando]

Vick's plan is fine with me, too.

[Vick]

Besides, if we have one of my driven targets die on both nights, how can I ever confirm I'm a genuine BD and not a Drug Dealer?

[Vick]

Also, they would have to take my word for it that I saved Owen N1 and am not just pulling that out of my ass. No matter what he dies on N2, of course.

[Bragg]

driving Owen/Eddy or Owen/Manning would both be fine from a BD perspective and it'll work for us

Brees wasn't particularly looking like a townie like if you ask me. Not sure why you want him dead.

A smart bus driver doesn't drive the same person every night because it's too predictable. We can kill Owen without a bus drive tomorrow if we BD him today. Protective roles won't go for Owen when they find out that he was bus driven the night before.

[Lando]

I'd kinda like to see Eddy dead, though...
If Manning isn't shot or jailed tonight, we might go for a Manning/Owen switch night 2.

[Vick]

driving Owen/Eddy or Owen/Manning would both be fine from a BD perspective and it'll work for us

Brees wasn't particularly looking like a townie like if you ask me. Not sure why you want him dead.

A smart bus driver doesn't drive the same person every night because it's too predictable. We can kill Owen without a bus drive tomorrow if we BD him today. Protective roles won't go for Owen when they find out that he was bus driven the night before.

I would have figured switching Owen with different people multiple times would still be acceptable as long as it was treated as if it were intended to protect him. Brees didn't come off town to you? I just wanted to get rid of him as he was one of the few people actually contributing anything to the discussion other than Owen.

[Bragg]

Brees contributed nothing. He just echoed Owen's opinion and made a football team. That's it.

[Vick]

Brees contributed nothing. He just echoed Owen's opinion and made a football team. That's it.

Compare that to everyone else in the vault.

[Vick]

Most people didn't even take the time to agree or disagree with anyone else.

[Tarkin]

Eddy seems very town to me, probably citizen. Brees practiced active lurking where he posted a decent amount but said almost nothing of worth. He could actually be scum. I think Rawne might be a cit, Owen a PR hiding in plain sight.

[Vick]

Eh, whatever. I'm switching Owen and Eddy. Choose someone to kill Tarkin, doesn't matter to me.

[Tarkin]

I kind of like the idea of killing Eddy as he was one of the most pro-town yesterday even if turns out to be a cit.

Maybe you should swap Owen with Luke or Rawne because if Owen is shot at least a lurker will die.

[Tarkin]

Well you choose who to swap because you need to claim based on that.

Who I want dead:

1) Owen
2) Eddy
3) Wedge

If you're definitely going to swap those two, I think I'll shoot Wedge.

[Vick]

If you really want Eddy gone, I'll swap Owen with Rawne, using the "Rawne was useless" excuse. I'll change my action now.

[Tarkin]

ok I'll shoot Eddy. I buddied with Eddy a bit and we were the only 2 voting Manning so it might look good on me if he flips town + that's one less vote on the neutral if Manning is the witch or something.

[Tarkin]

I won't have time to post day chat for a while (maybe Vick can) so I'll give a summary.

I was technically lured into killing Eddy and he puts this in his last will. Strangely none of the town seem to consider that I might be the killer and start trying to lynch Wedge and Rawne because Owen thinks he's so important :p that the mafia must have attacked him and had the kill re-directed on to Rawne. He pressures Rawne until he claims armoursmith then gets 2 other people and Vick to vote Wedge up to L-1 where I have to step in to save town from themselves.

My initial thoughts are to switch Owen and Rawne then shoot Rawne. This takes aways any protection from Owen and it is somewhat reasonable that Rawne will be attacked. It's very reasonable that you switched those two because Owen is the town leader and Rawne has a vest or is scum. Could draw a connection between you and the mafia though.

[Tarkin]

Eddy was the enchantress who lured me if that wasn't clear. He repelled Wedge.

[Vick]

My initial thought is to swap Luke and Owen and shoot at Luke. If needed I ca n say I didn't think mac would shoot the guy that just got replaced.

[Lando]

How high is Tarkin on the Scum-O-Meter? Would switching him with Owen be acceptable? It makes sure that he won't be checked/tracked. And I'd like to have a look at the day chat. :)

[Tarkin]

How high is Tarkin on the Scum-O-Meter? Would switching him with Owen be acceptable? It makes sure that he won't be checked/tracked. And I'd like to have a look at the day chat. :)

When you get a chance to read day chat (I'll post it when I get home in about 7 hours or Vick can post it) only Owen said I might be scum #4 but even he takes it as a given that I wasn't the one who killed Eddy. It's weird that none of them think so after Stan was lynched with the same evidence in 103 but atm I'm doing ok even if I know this will get me lynched eventually.

Vick had a bit of a go at me for not voting Wedge but I don't think that's as good of a setup as him switching Luke, Rawne or Wedge. I want to kill Owen to usurp his position of town leader and maybe put some suspicion on Rawne and Wedge and I can't do that if I'm driven with him.

[Lando]

As the Eddy thing will eventually come back to you: do you have any concrete plans on what you will claim? How will you defend yourself?

[Vick]

As Tarkin said, I'd more readily go with Luke than him/ I'll try and post up the chat here, gimme a sec.

[Vick]

I omitted some stuff that wasn't important.


Roxy here, wishing everyone a good morning!

I can't see your vault, but Galaxy Radio heard about a sinister killing last night! Eddy was killed violently, I'm sorry for your loss.

His role was... Enchantress!

Eddy left a last will:

My guess is that one or two of Brees, Luke, Rawne, Manning or Wedge is a killer. Order of priority? From most likely to least likely: Wedge, Rawne, Luke, Brees, Manning.

Wedge seems too cooperative and yet he does not lead in any manner or form, rather he keeps agreeing with everyone. Supports the no lynch policy and provides various reasons as to why... Town should want to lynch, regardless of what Owen said.

Rawne posted once and hinted at being neutral but can possibly be mafia too.

Luke is a lurking bastard and might be a killer, but likely to also be the citizen in here.

Brees and Manning are suspicious for their football talk. What, I was suspicious for my roleplay? hehe. But seriously, they are!

Tarkin and Owen seem too town to be anything else, but nothing is ever 100%. Vick is probably also town probably.

Am I dead? Was I eaten? :[

I lured Tarkin and repelled Wedge, if that helps.
In lighter news, Luke was approached for a radio interview last night but we couldn't reach him. Roxy thinks that he's due for a free lynch!


Are the standards the same for lynching Luke? I.E. Role is cleaned?

Are the standards the same for lynching Luke? I.E. Role is cleaned?

No, the free lynch will be treated as a modkill (straight up death). There are currently replacements standing by, however, so Luke will be replaced.


I think we should let Luke live. If he's a killer (which there was a missing kill) it's nice to have him not playing instead of being modkilled and replaced with an active killer.


Ok so Eddy's last will was just now uploaded.

..I have no response to the last will...and I gave my 2 cents about Luke.


Hey folks, I need to think things over for a little while before we proceed with today's lynch.

Please don't do anything rash until then.



Oh but there's one thing I'm certain of:
-free lynch Luke
If we free lynch a ventriloquist dummy, will the owner of said dummy be replaced on all of his accounts?
If we free lynch a ventriloquist dummy, will they die automatically due to the first question's answer not being possible?

A killing role would not afk beyond day chat.
A town vote is something that is something we should cherish.

Thinking otherwise is... well.


Anyone could go afk for any reason. All I know is we lack a death. I see no harm in letting Luke live.
I doubt any town members would go AFK either. Citizens can actually contribute to this game setup.
And well if he's a neutral, it doesn't really matter.
There's only 1 confirmed citizen. It could be Luke...I'm just not fully convinced to modkill him yet.
Is there a time limit on when we can free lynch Luke?


I'm just going to do you the favor of letting you know you are in favor of letting a possible lurking scum lurk, or in favor of keeping an afk town in place when it is likely our vault is now poised at a 4 to 4 balance.


Sorry that I have barely posted in this game so far. I've been busy with IRL things but everything should be fine now.

Last night I was bus driven.

I don't see why we can't free lynch Luke right away, as getting rid of an AFK player never hurts town at all. Luke the user doesn't die and is replaced by a reserve if this happens, right?


Keeping an AFK player in the game reduces the possibility of killing roles to target them and waste a night action, usually.

However, if they are a puppet then the less interference the better.

-free lynch Luke


Do you find it odd that you were attacked last night?


I don't think I was attacked last night...? I have no idea what this means. Are you saying that you attacked me or someone else should have?


Oh and

-free lynch Luke


It's understandable that you would want to hold back some information so as to confuse the scum or give them the impression that you are in fact one of them, but it's important that you're honest in this regard. You will be directly harming the town if you are not honest with me, friend.


-free lynch Luke

So Eddy lured me last night. Oh well.

Manning isn't dead after claiming neutral yesterday. I thought a vigi might shoot him seeing as we can't see lynched peoples' roles or Owen is claiming vigi now. I think Manning could be the devourer for meta reasons (Nom Nom Nom) but Luna could have named it that so we distrust a jailor more. Claiming neutral early as the witch has been a common tactic in recent games seeing as they are always ignored.



Owen is claiming vigi now.No, I'm not.



No, I'm not.I got the vibe of bus driver personally.

Free lynch Luke.


Actually no. Forget I said anything. Still voting though.


haahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I GOT YOU

-vote Wedge


Allow me to explain.
Wedge believed I was bus driver because I was leaning on Rawne about being attacked. The reason he believed this is because he attacked me last night, and the kill was redirected to Rawne. The only reason he would suspect I was BD above anything else is because he was under the assumption that the BD could self-target. He then changed his mind after he had a look at the rolecard and saw that wasn't possible.

You see, I was swapped last night, and there's only two people who could know that aside from me in this situation: the BD, and the person who attacked me.

Rawne is, in my best guess, one of the mafia godfathers.

Good game.


So I'll give you guys my role if enough people want it. Again, honesty is my thing here.


I have reason to believe you. Well made arguments deserve support.

-vote Wedge


You can tell us tomorrow, when the mafia won't be able to kill you if they are still alive.


So you were attacked last night? Because I definitely was not; hence my confusion when you threw that question out there. Maybe I was the original target and it got redirected to you? I don't see how both of us would have gotten a notification that we were attacked. Also, how are you still alive, then?


You can feign ignorance all you want, but with an argument like that, you only confirm what I already know.


I'm not being ignorant. I'm confused as to, taking everything you said into account, why I should have been attacked, when I was not.


Why you should have been attacked? Easy.

Because he attacked me, and I was swapped with you. Hence, you should have been attacked.

And you were.


Why not just lynch Rawne?


It's simple.

The mafia that attempted to kill me will not know they failed if we lynch Wedge before he has a chance to tell them.

That is to our advantage.

Eddy is already dead, so them not knowing they succeeded in killing him is irrelevant.

The chance of a vigilante in our vault is very low, anyway.


If a kill is redirected by a bus driver, are both the original target and the redirected target both notified that they are attacked?

If yes, something weird happened and I have no idea why I wasn't notified. If no, then you are wrong in that both of us should have gotten a notification, I was the original target, and it got redirected to you.

Look, I don't doubt that someone attacked you, either directly or through a bus driver redirect. I know I was not, though.


Aside from the whole "both of us would have been notified" matter I definitely believe the rest of your theory makes sense. Are you assuming I am also a killing role and that I ended up attacking myself or something? Because I'm not.


Nope, you killed Eddy.

Wedge couldn't have, because he was being repelled.


I really want to roleclaim right now, but I don't think I have enough evidence even after that to prove I'm not mafia. Sigh.


So let me get this straight. You think I'm scum because I thought bus driver could self target?


How is rawne scum again?


See, I know you're guilty because of how active you suddenly are. But you're only talking about how you weren't attacked. Nothing else, no ideas, no leads, just defensively active.

Wedge is lurking because he has no idea how to respond to my allegations, but my claim is weaker on you because I had to end my game early to capitalize on Wedge's mistake. Ohp. Speak of the devil.

So you're admitting that is what you thought, yes?


By the way, time grows short, friends. I suggest you come out of your lurking hidey-holes, even if I'm wrong it gives you a free kill on a town. No reason not to vote, the odds are greatly in your favor on this one.


We have 4 hours.
And I admit I thought bus driver could target self. I didn't look at the role card, I did not know until you just said it.


Why did you think I was BD in the first place?
Why did you change your mind?


There's a hole in what you're saying but I think I know how that can be explained so -vote Wedge. Your vote won't count in red, Manning.

Sorry for not being as active today but I need to finish this project for work experience. I should have more time in a few days.


My queston to you is this, how do you know if rawne was attacked or not?
Trying to claim something?

I thought you were BD because I thought you switched him with eddy. That's how I was thinking you knew he was attacked. I then changed my mind because there are still other ways. More precisely a role I thought was excluded.


Or -vote Rawne. If you're basing the lynch on Wedge just on that bus driver slip I'd rather lynch Rayne. There's a margin of error with Wedge and we won't be able to confirm his role if we lynch him. Rawne is the safer bet.


A lot of my posts have focused on the whole attacked-not attacked mess because you're either ignoring any reasoning I'm giving or was just misunderstanding what exactly happened night 1. And with a bare amount of information present at the moment, it's hard to come up with an idea with any confidence in it. And yeah, I know being very active is directly contrasting with my single post Day 1. Just have a lot of time to waste today.

As I see it, Wedge already seemed scummy with his idea to just let scum kill each other off, which isn't very likely to happen, and his idea that losing the majority doesn't hurt town's chances of winning. Still, the evidence against him seems flimsy at the moment, hence my lack of voting.


I was bluffing, to get him to admit he was attacked by offering him a comfortable escape and a plausible alibi so when the fact that he was attacked last night eventually surfaces it wouldn't look quite so suspect.

But that's an interesting story, I suppose. Where were you between the minute after you posted and 20 minutes ago?


Why are you voting rawne again?

@rawne I would rather have mafia kill people and us get information than lynching and not getting any info.


Well, looks like it's roleclaim time. At this point I think you'll probably lynch me anyway; looking back at my posts I'm clearly doing something wrong in what I'm doing.

I'm the armoursmith. I attempted to give Owen armor last night, but due to the bus switch I ended up giving it to myself. That's all I can say. Goodbye for now.


doing something wrong referring to how I'm posting and making myself seem too much like scum to be believable at this point


(in reference to Owen.)That's a retarded bluff...

I was trying to get cell service.


So it took you 40 minutes to get cellphone service, when you could post perfectly just a moment before?

I dunno, man...

(In reference to Rawne)Sorry but I don't believe you. That would mean you knew I was swapped from the get-go, and I really don't get that vibe from you.


Believe what you will. It's Wifi going to cell service.


Owen's right that you did not look like you knew he was swapped with you. You could just as easily be the drug dealer who killed Eddy and hope to prove yourself by drugging someone tomorrow. It helps that scum won't attack you now that you've said you have a vest.

Why did you feel the need to claim a power role with just one vote on you?

It's not as if we were going to lynch anyone when roles are cleaned and it's 3 hours before the day ends.


Thanks for the heads up. I'm pretty busy OOC during all this, and don't have the time to read the minor stuff.

-vote wedge


I propose that we not lynch anyone tonight, and use our free lynch to let someone else be interviewed tonight. That way, we might find out something about someone else. If you're going to be WIFOMing that much, why not take advantage of the other elements of the wasteland?


Basically what I'm saying is why risk wasting an interview? Free lynch Mr. AFK and let someone else be interviewed tonight.


There are no limits on interview subjects or free lynches. Luke will be replaced at my discretion if he does not become active again soon.


Ok, so what does his role do? Enchantess? Does it basically force the people he picks to select him instead of anyone else?


Enchantress can force one person to target them and force one person NOT to target them. In the case of the latter, the target will be selected at random from the rest of the denizens.


I am very confident in my two suspects.

They show no initiative to hunt or participate at all beyond my questioning despite vehemently disagreeing with me on my thoughts of them.

Instead of rising to the occasion and proving me wrong, they slip back into obscurity the moment I ease up.

Lynching Wedge is our best option here, we will know if Rawne is really armorsmith when we find him dead tomorrow.


So where has Vick been all this time? Aside from Luke I noticed he's the only person who hasn't posted.


-lynch wedge


Luke has been replaced and his account has been given to someone else.


So if I'm counting correctly, here is the current vote tally with 2 hours before the day ends:

Wedge (2) - Manning, Brees (Owen you voted in red, so it doesn't count unfortunately)
Rawne (1) - Tarkin

@Tarkin: I definitely should have mentioned the armor I got earlier in the day. I said earlier that I didn't believe a roleclaim would even help my case, but it looks like I'll be alive for at least one more night. Yes, not making it clear that I knew who I was swapped with from the beginning was not a good move, but I thought revealing that information would make me look like scum. Seems like it was the other way around.

I find it a little suspicious Brees' first posts in this thread are asking what Eddy's role is when he could have looked it up, then votes Wedge without giving any thought behind it. Hmm...


-vote Wedge


I did think about it, that was to confirm what his role does. Basically he used his ability to do a 'COME-AT-ME-BRO' which forced wedge to attack him.


Dhey there dudes, I'm currently going through the day chat, I'm very sorry for my absence up until now there are a number of IRL things going on this week that are time consuming. It will not be a problem in the future.


No, Wedge was repelled, so someone else killed Eddy.


-vote Wedge

Owen's reasoning is sound in that no one would know who was driven except the targets and the BD... or someone trying to target the driven people. Wedge has given us no reason to think he's actually the BD, and yet he seemed to be aware of details he shouldn't, strange hmm?

I'm not really sure what Owen's deal is with Rawne, unless he was trying to pressure something out of him?
Rawne's Armorsmith claim on the other hand seems a bit... convenient in my opinion. "Hey guys I know I'm taking some heat, but I'm totally really this hyper important protection role! Oh, and don't target me, cause it turns out I just armored myself!" Besides that, He seemed to be unaware of the fact that Owen had been swapped with him, even though he should have come out of the gate with that. As someone pointed out, I could easily seem that being a setup for a DD claim.

Tarkin has been pretty contrary all game, with some gaps in his logic yesterday though he's making a little more sense today.

Manning, I'm curious what you're about, but Owen is right in suggesting you wait to claim.

Pretty much everyone else has posted to little for me to get a feel on them. Hopefully we'll get a good read on New-Luke tomorrow.


Also, Tarkin, why are you trying to take the heat off Wedge so badly?


Just for the record, we're at less than an hour and I believe Wedge is L-1


I was lured, Wedge was repelled so he couldn't have killed Eddy.

I am not prepared to lynch Wedge and clean his role. He is already proven not be the killer of Eddy and I'm no where near sure enough he's scum that I don't care what he flips. The more ??? the more roles scum have to hide behind and Wedge hasn't even claimed a role.

The main basis of the lynch was that Wedge said he thought Owen was the BD (he didn't say swapped, Owen was the one who said Wedge thought BDs could swap themselves). Since Owen lied about being attacked by mafia, there is no longer the proof that Wedge attacked Rawne and the only logical mafia role for Rawne based on his armoursmith claim is drug dealer and Rawne isn't dead so Wedge didn't attack either Eddy or Rawne. It's odd that he thought Owen was the BD and especially why he wanted to give scum hints to PRs but it's not confirming evidence and if you want to clean someone's role that is what you need.

Does that answer your question, Vick?


It's obvious Rawne won't be dead tomorrow even if he is town because 1) he's scummy and 2) he says he gave himself a vest.

Trying to set yourself up for tomorrow's lynch and clean as well?


Just to clear something up:
I'm suggesting -I- was attacked last night and it was swapped onto Rawne, the immune GF. It explains the lack of a kill and the lack of a claim.

Also, Wedge confirmed that he thought bus driver could self-swap.

I think you might be scum #4, what do you think about that?


Oh and, you're not ready to clean Wedge's role but you don't have any qualms in lynching the last possible PR in our vault when lynching Wedge will prove whether or not Rawne is innocent?

Gimme a break.


Ok guys. Just got replaced and went ahead and read through everything to try and get situated.

Ok so here is what I've tried to glean from the posts in Day 2.

This was first asked by Owen to Rawne after Rawne claims bussed.

Owen had just claimed that he was not Vigi. Wedge thinks that he is a bus driver and then changes his mind. What I'm confused about is how Owen knows he was attacked even though Rawne claims he wasn't.

This seems too circumstantial to me. It could be true but Owen should have no proof that he was attacked unless he knows more because of his role.

His recanting on his bus driver though is pretty suspicious but not condemning.

This however seems very suspicious. Why roleclaim from just this and be put in a perfect position to be safe from any night attacks. Either very lucky or obvious night immune role.

Also let's try not to forget that Eddy lured Tarkin and was killed. If he repelled Wedge it would've made him randomly attack someone else.

I might have missed or overlooked because I'm trying to get all this information at once. However I feel that Rawne is our best bet for a lynch target.

Vote Rawne


You're not going to lynch Rawne in the next 20 minutes. It's either Wedge or no one. Make your choice, new Luke.

And it's obvious I was attacked last night. I'm the person who controlled the majority of discussion yesterday, when I stopped talking the discussion ended. I said the most things that sounded smart. I was the biggest threat to scum, though I see why Eddy was attacked, I would have killed him too, though perhaps not before me. Sure I could have been protected, but the attempt was worth the risk and the payoff was too big to resist. If I died, they could step in and do whatever they wanted in the void I left behind.


Just so we're clear, here's how it went down.
I was swapped with Rawne.
Rawne killed Eddy
Wedge attacked me, and hit Rawne instead.
Having been attacked, Rawne has to start building up his town profile by offering that he was swapped just in case the other mafia rats him out down the line.
Wedge, confused about why I'm still alive and noticing I'm placing pressure onto Rawne, decides to continue to buddy up to me by pointing out I could very well be a PR. This is common in amateurish scum, they attempt to get on your good side by reaffirming that you're town. He thinks BD can swap themself, so his claim makes sense in his own mind.

All circumstantial, all possible. Could be a fluke, but I'm gonna have to go with my instincts.


Oh and if it makes you feel better, if I'm wrong, it's all on me.

You don't have to lynch him, but the chance of him being a PR is 0%. A PR wouldn't vanish while his head is on the chopping block.


Yes, I know that's what you were suggesting. It explains the lack of kill but so does someone being swallowed by the devourer and neither parties wanting to talk about it. That's just as if not more likely and so are a dozen other explanations for missing kills

Ok but he didn't say anything about you being swapped and he said he thought you switched Eddy and Rawne not that you swapped yourself. He gives a decent if not especially compelling explanation for why he thought you were the BD without talking about self swapping. Could be back tracking but it's laughable that you think that's grounds for a lynch and clean.

Are you honestly so convinced that Wedge is scum that you don't even care about seeing his role?

If you don't lead town on a lynch train against me that's fine with me.

I voted Rawne back when I thought you were the spy and actually had something. Removing my vote would be pointless and it's still there as a message of intent.

Do you honestly believe that if Rawne is town he will 100% be dead tomorrow? And seeing as you would think he's scum if he lives would you lynch him for that tomorrow?

I have to ask these questions because I can't believe anyone actually thinks that.


He disappeared before anyone had voted him...


We can't assume that their are members of both mafias in our cells can we? The role confirms one defnitely and logic assumes that we should have both. However, The random any's could be 4 jesters. I'm not going to lynch Wedge tonight because it all seems too circumstantial and his death can't be confirmed because their will still be at least 1 kill. Sad that I was added in with only 2 hours to try anything. We will see if my theory holds true or not tonight.

-unvote


This is the news brought to you by Rooxxxxyyyyyy, Galaxy Radio's finest and only voice!


Good night sweet things. Roxy is looking out for you, my slumbering children spread out across those vaults. May your dreams bring happiness, and we will soon be together again. One day remaining!

[Vick]

Wow that took forever.

Tarkin, I still disagree with your decision not to lynch Wedge. Honestly I feel you just cost us a (???) to hide behind forever more in the GY and you only managed to come off looking scummy doing it. I don't know what's up with you dude, but I was pretty sure you were trying so hard to look town that you actually forgot you were mafia in there.

[Lando]

Hmm, I don't think it was needed to defend him as hard as you did Tarkin. There was a point where you could have easily jumped the train. But as time went on you positioned yourself in a way that made it impossible for you to vote him. Well, what's done is done.

As there is an Armorsmith in the Vault, we can just straight up kill Owen. No shenanigans with driving needed. What we can hope to accomplish is to grab the armor that will be given out tonight. If Tarkin manages to snatch the armor through bus driving, Rawne will be lynched. Ofc you won't claim driven, as it was dead Owen who got driven and the armor.

So, who will likely get the armor tonight? I'm leaning towards a low profil yet probably town target. Wedge will probably not get it. If Vick gets it, well then Vick at least got one piece of armor, but Rawne will be cleared (unless DD). So remaining switch targets are Brees, Luke, Manning.
If you think that Tarkin will get the armor, then I suggest to not drive at all. Vick goes kill Owen, while Tarkin claims driven, setting up for an Owen-Tarkin switch. This also frees up an action to rob Eddy. Giving you later the possibility to lure the Gunsmith of my Vault.
If Owen gets the armor, Rawne is in for a world of hurt.

[Bragg]

The chance of a detective inside this vault is negligible because one died in 66 already. So having either of you skipping actions seems wrong.

I think the bus drive needs to be used if only to increase the chance to discredit Rawne. With Owen dead and Rawne proving himself as armorsmith, I don't doubt that the town will shift their focus to Tarkin because there is actual evidence against him. The new Luke seems smart enough to do that.

Swapping Rawne again doesn't make sense after his claim. He might try to give it to Owen again... I suppose it's no problem if we kill him. Rawne will not give armor to Tarkin if he reads Eddy's last will post at all tonight. It's not like Tarkin was defending HIM either. He was defending wedge. From a bus driver's point of view, it makes sense to swap Tarkin. Vick was also clearly disagreeing with Tarkin in day chat, so he can reasonably pick him as his scum switch. I'm just not sure who Vick should swap him with. Who he should be trying to 'protect.'

The challenge that remains then is to really lynch Rawne tomorrow. If he doesn't get cleaned, people will know he was an armorsmith and if Tarkin or Vick lies about "not receiving the armor" they'll be caught later. The presence of a coroner might also foil this plan. However, a mortician visiting Eddy will doom Tarkin already. The possibility of a mortician is also the reason we NEED to use the bus drive and not fake it.

[Tarkin]

It's what I would have done if I were town and it makes sense from a town viewpoint. I try not to think about what I'm doing as mafia and instead do everything as I would do as town. That's usually my playstyle and it generally pays off. If there comes a time when I need to act in the interest of the mafia I'll do it if I think the risk is worth the gain, but I didn't see that yesterday. Wedge might well be the second neutral (the only other likely candidate is Brees) and we don't want to lynch those yet.

It's possible I will get the armour. I might have FOSed Rawne but I think he trusts me and he'll like that I didn't hammer Wedge. He won't want his armour switched again so I doubt he'll give it to Owen. tbh I don't know if anyone else in our vault is worth giving armour to. Most of them are lurkers.

I like Lando's suggestion that Vick kills Owen and I claim swapped. I think I'm one of the best targets to kill from scum's point of view because I didn't want to lynch Wedge, I'm active and contribute and I'm not that likely to be protected or swapped. It's subtle enough that people can come to their own conclusions that maybe I was attacked and the kill was swapped onto Owen. Scum have an excuse for not killing Owen because they would think he would be swapped (they'd be right).

It will be instant death for me if a coroner checks Vick's body but by that time I might be dead anyway. As for what I will claim, that's easy. I've been setting up for a cit who wants to be killed for being useful since day 1 and I have the potential to claim a PR wifoming cit if I manage to do something with my grave robber ability.

[Bragg]

There's also a detective in vault 103, so that's 2 already.

[Bragg]

How about: swap Wedge and Owen, kill Wedge (so Owen dies)

The swap makes sense from town perspective
It makes so much sense that it would be an easy guess for the mafia that wedge would get driven as the redirect target, taking WIFOM into account
People already don't trust wedge so if wedge gets armor, it's likely that they won't believe him and you can point fingers at wedge and rawne for buddying.

Scenario:
Rawne performed the kill and targeted Wedge, who is night immune drug dealer/strike force leader so even if he didn't get swapped the attack would do no damage. Rawne "received armor night 1" from the drugs Wedge used on Owen. He false claimed armorsmith because he wants to cast suspicion on Tarkin for visiting Eddy, even though Rawne himself was sent to kill Eddy. This was planned in their night chat because Wedge is undetectable anyway. If Wedge wasn't bus driven, Rawne could potentially claim to be attacked, using his armor. Wedge is the drug dealer and used his action on someone else (Tarkin false claims armorsmith message if noone else claims to have gotten armor?)

I dunno, just an idea :p

It all hinges on noone except us or the dead receiving armor though.

[Bragg]

Ah wait, it's Rawne who is being suspected of godfather. Then wedge would have to be drugdealer and Rawne godfather/something else.

[Vick]

Ugh. I'm not sure. so much WIFOM going on. I can't swap him with rawne again, and Wedge isn't the best target in the world. Tarkin would work great except he can't self target. We could go for what I said before. I swap with Luke and claim that I never would have expected them to attack the fresh guy. Overall it's up to the group of course.

[Tarkin]

I still like Lando's plan. It allows me to take the enchantress power which may come in useful later on and if Rawne gives me armour and I claim bussed that's a secret piece of armour for me and Rawne looks even more suspicious. I might need something like this that makes me look like I've been attacked to negate the lure evidence from yesterday. So my vote is for:

Vick kills Owen
Tarkin grave robs Eddy

[Vick]

So the idea is this, if I figure right. I go to kill Owen, and you claim bussed so it looks like I swapped you and he. You grab enchantress powers instead?

[Lando]

I never suggested for any of them to skip actions.
Scenario 1:
Vick kills Owen.
Tarkin robs Eddy.
Tarkin will claim to have been switched with Owen. If he recieved amor, he will claim that this was not the case. This actually clears Tarkin of being Mafia.

Scenario 2:
Tarkin kills Owen.
Vick switches Tarkin with somebody who will likely get armor and is not Owen.
If Tarkin received armor that way, he will not claim bus driven and consequently nobody received armor.
If Tarkin does not receive armor it will depend on the situation whether you claim to be bus driven or not.
The second target should be chosen appropiately.


I think that Coroner and Mortician are not an issue as the graveyard will probably be left behind as a part of the escape, making the Coroner/Mortician unable to check the bodies (better ask that in FAQ).

[Lando]

Oh, I somehow missed to whole second page of posts. Ignore my last post for now.

[Vick]

That being the case, it works just fine for me if we're all in agreement. If I get pressed about it, I'll say I thought Tarkin was scummy. This doesn't clear him, but rawne will still be around to confirm my drive, not that it's a secret at this point.

[Tarkin]

If we're agreed I'll go post my action. Owen could be a PR (he said Rawne might be the only the PR left) or he could have given up trying to look like a PR as a cit which is understandable as he doesn't need a night action to get killed. I'd rather play it safe by robbing Eddy anyway.

[Lando]

Was there a word of a roleblocker? We should play through some scenarios if something goes wrong.

1. Somebody else than Owen dies to Vick.
Easy one. That somebody was switched with Tarkin.

2. Owen somehow survives the attack. There is a missing bus Driving to explain.
a)roleblocker on Tarkin night 1 and Vick night 2. Reeeeally unlikely...
b)Tarkin is Enchantress and lured Vick, who then switched Tarkin with himself. Improbable, too, but with two Enchantress charges it might buy you some time.

3. Vick gets roleblocked.
You are in a world of hurt, if Tarkin doesn't help you out somehow (1.b). The Bus Driver can't be roleblocked (OoOps)!

[Bragg]

A list will be published of all the players that died, and the bodies may still be targeted. No other graveyard information will be released by me (roles, cause of death, time of death, etc.).
Sorry, but I'm going to intervene.

Vick will bus drive tonight and Tarkin will kill. If we do not come to an agreement who the targets are going to be, I will choose them myself.

No one will believe that vault 21 had 2 enchantresses (especially because Tarkin didn't nearly act surprised enough by Eddy's death) and I'm not going to put Vick at risk of being caught by a mortician.

[Bragg]

So if we're going with this scenario:

Scenario 2:
Tarkin kills Owen.
Vick switches Tarkin with somebody who will likely get armor and is not Owen.
If Tarkin received armor that way, he will not claim bus driven and consequently nobody received armor.
If Tarkin does not receive armor it will depend on the situation whether you claim to be bus driven or not.
The second target should be chosen appropiately.

Who are we going to switch with Tarkin? Luke perhaps?

[Bragg]

Please consult the night actions thread again before claiming anything.

[Lando]

This scenario isn't better than the first one, if Tarkin doesn't claim the bus driving and the armor. Because Vick will have to intervene and call him out on the bus drive. So we will have to confirm the Armorsmith either way and can't go for a lynch if we are afraid of every night action they can possibly take.

[Vick]

Here's the chat.



Oh guys, I think I have some terrible news. Last night I managed to get a radio line established with Owen; he managed to garble something, like he was closing in on a traitor but was in trouble. The line then went dead.

It seems Owen has been killed!

Owen was a... Citizen!

He left a last will:


Whatever happens beyond this moment is your fault. I honestly don't know what you're waiting for, but with a BD and an armorsmith claim, you're never going to get that sheriff hit you're waiting for.

I was willing to trust in my own skill as a player, and these inklings were dismissed because apparently this is a court of law, and lurking without claiming will get you off the hook for a lynch.

With all the scum out in the open, it'll be about 50-50 odds the BD dies tonight along with me.

Bye.


Thank god the WIFOMing is over

It seems pretty obvious now that we only have 1 killing role among us. Going to think this over tonight and post tomorrow.

Yes. He almost got me lynched simply because I said he gave a bus driver vibe.

Was anyone bus driven last night?

Hey there dudes. What's going on up in here, what's the dealio I ask you? I'd like to open today's precedings with a little question for each of you. Please feel free to ask me any questions you have in return.

Wedge I'm curious, if you're not the BD yourself... How did you correctly guess that Owen had been driven before he said a word about it? The reason it was so suspicious to me was that you were on it so quick. Almost as if you had targeted him and knew.

Rawne, you knew from the very get go that you had been swapped with Owen if your roleclaim is to be believed. Why did it seem to come as a surprise to you anyways?

Tarkin, you tried lead a lynch on Rawne yesterday despite the fact that his claim was at the very least plausible. In youe opinion, why was he scummier than Wedge?

Manning, are you prepared to come forward with a particular roleclaim today?

Brees, can you please come out with more participation today? Yesterday you sort of just hopped onto the bandwagon with very little explanation.

Luke, you came out of the gate swinging as soon as you replaced yesterday... I'd like you to answer the same question as Tarkin with a little more detail now that everything is much less rushed.

I didn't guess he was driven. I speculated that he himself appeared to be the BD and he switched rawne with eddy. That's how he would know Rawne was attacked. So I just commented on that matter. Then I changed my mind because I reread the roles list and saw other possible roles. However I was completely wrong, I never pegged him for a citizen...or town at least. I thought he was rather scummy yesterday basing his whole lynch on me just because I said I thought he was more of a BD than vigilante.

And I'm not sure if there's only 1 killer in here, but there is at least 1 enclave member.

Owen's claim of being attacked confused me to the point where I didn't pay attention to anything else at the time. Which was completely my mistake; I should have either kept quiet about being bussed or brought up that I knew who the other person was. Problem is, if I did the latter, it means whatever night action I did was directed towards Owen. Which would not prove anything except that I'm either town PR, mafia, or neutral.

Oh I wasn't bus driven this time around. Actually, nothing happened to me last night, so I don't have anything to add to discussion at the moment.

What are you basing the Enclave thing off of? If there is an Enclave member in here, there would be two night kills.

As I recall, and I'll double check and correct myself if I'm wrong... you were the first person to mention BD. Not Owen. So I ask again, why were you implying Owen was BD before he ever said anything about being driven?

You implied he was BD, then retracted the statement when you saw that BD couldn't self target. That seems to imply that you knew Owen had been bus driven before he ever said he was. Rawne brought up being bussed, but not him.


Owen's claim of being attacked confused me to the point where I didn't pay attention to anything else at the time. Which was completely my mistake; I should have either kept quiet about being bussed or brought up that I knew who the other person was. Problem is, if I did the latter, it means whatever night action I did was directed towards Owen. Which would not prove anything except that I'm either town PR, mafia, or neutralThat I can definitely understand. As I said yesterday, I'm not really sure what Owen was on about with the "You were definitely attacked" thing. Your claim itched of convenience before, but putting myself in your shoes I can see it. I believe your claim for the moment.

Enclave thing, sorry was thinking about something else.

To the bus driver thing. I explained that yesterday. Go and read it. I'm not posting it again. And I already answered one of your questions in my previous post.

All I'm saying now is that I am not a neutral killer role.

You said you'd reveal and that honesty was important to you, why so hesitant now?


To the bus driver thing. I explained that yesterday. Go and read it. I'm not posting it again. And I already answered one of your questions in my previous post.No you really didn't. You brushed it off by saying you were responding to something Owen said. Owen said no such thing.


My queston to you is this, how do you know if rawne was attacked or not?
Trying to claim something?

I thought you were BD because I thought you switched him with eddy. That's how I was thinking you knew he was attacked. I then changed my mind because there are still other ways. More precisely a role I thought was excluded.I replied like this. As you can tell from this and my my previous post today, all I posted was a comment based on a speculation I was making. So tell me why what I said in reply to whatever Owen said. Show me the quotes or posts. I would like to see them.

By the way, I just wanted to let you guys know that I will be gone in five hours. Something just came up, I might be able to read and post but no guarantees.

I would also like to say I'm interested in what brees had to say about all of this. Like vick stated earlier he just voted.

Please ask me any questions now so we can get this resolved and not waste anymore time on it, plus I would like to actually reply to the questions.

Right now I'd rather watch and see how things develop between the rest of you.

I would also rather not reveal until we get out into the open. What you guys should be doing right NOW is figuring out strategies to make the rest of the fucking people in the game bend to your will.

I'm in this for the fun. I don't really care about winning, as long as it's a really fun ride.

Wedge, you haven't answered Vick's question as to why you're sure there's an Enclave member in this vault.

If Wedge targeted Owen for his night action N1 I would have known about it.

Assuming I have a night action that visits people. And that was just a misspoken thought. I don't really believe that, I have some theories coming up here in a second.

EDIT: *Posts a bunch of theories regarding the layout of the vaults roles assuming a bunch of things. The one he actually believes is:
Hidden Brotherhood of Steel
Hidden Wastelander (Manning)
Enchantress
Armour Smith (Rawne)
Citizen
Hidden Any (Cit)
Hidden Any (Neut)
Hidden Any (Neut)
Hidden Any (Bos)
Hidden Any (Bus Driver)
Manning gives off the impression of a neutral and he said he doesn't really care what happens. This is typical neutral behavior, however scum would benefit to hide behind such a guise.

Right now it seems increasingly clear there is no investigative role in this vault. I, for one, would rather not wait around for information that won't come (although knowing whether anyone was bussed last night would help). So are we not lynching today? I personally don't think that, right now, there is enough information on anyone to go off of that would make him instant scum. Even though there are suspects, they're still just suspects.

Wedge, I don't quite agree with your roles list theory. You're guessing 3 neutrals, when there are only 7 total in the entire game. There were also only 9 people to begin with.

Brees and Tarkin, you guys there? Luke, have you come up with any thoughts?

Well it's three and a half hours from nighttime. I'm going to assume we're not lynching anyone. If nothing else, we might as well speculate on what happens after night 3. Nobody's going to die unless we lynch someone.

Well, it looks like I won't be able to post for the rest of the day since I have some IRL commitments. I won't be able to answer any questions you ask me, sorry.

I have no clue what we should do. I believe we only have one kill because there is one or more BoS member(s) and they share kills. No Enclave. If I had to guess who the BoS member is a say it would be Tarkin or Vick.

Tarkin was taking the game seriously the first day, when eddy claimed to vote manning, Tarkin went along with him and eddy died that night. That was suspicious to me.

Vick has been the guy that has always been around, but has not been posting anything negative towards Owen. In fact he agreed with Owen almost too much. And now that Owen is gone he trying to be a leader.

Thats my input.

Sure thing. I think Rawne was acting very suspicious. First and foremost, he role claimed off of just 1 vote against him. To me this shouts scum trying to quickly take the attention off of himself. His claim is plausible, yet the situation of it all seemed to...coincidental. If he was truly an Armoursmith than I agree that he should of sent his armour to Owen. Usually when situations like this happen I am very skeptical. I would ask him to reveal who he sent armour to last night to confirm that he is truly an armoursmith, but that would just make it easier for the scum to select a kill.

If Rawne feels the need to confirm himself as armoursmith then he should reveal who he sent armour to. At the moment I find him suspicious, but with the vault about to reopen I am comfortable waiting.

Something I'm curious about is WHO was bussed last night. I think the bus driver would have been smart to bus Owen, so whoever he switched Owen with was likely the person the mafia targeted.

Another thought is that people seem to overlook that Edy lured Tarkin the night he was killed. Tarkin seemed to brush it off pretty quickly but it could've been an obvious scum clue.

We will likely see if Rawne is actually a armoursmith tonight. Unless he bluffed and saved his vest for tonight, he will probably be attacked. If he isn't attacked then he is most likely a bos member. I'm willing to wait a night for this kind of information.

Manning is likely one of the harmless neutrals. If I had to guess it would probably be amnesiac /student or at the worst a witch.


I didn't guess he was driven. I speculated that he himself appeared to be the BD and he switched rawne with eddy. That's how he would know Rawne was attacked. So I just commented on that matter. Then I changed my mind because I reread the roles list and saw other possible roles. However I was completely wrong, I never pegged him for a citizen...or town at least. I thought he was rather scummy yesterday basing his whole lynch on me just because I said I thought he was more of a BD than vigilanteHere's where you said you were basing off of Owen's statements. Since you asked for the quote. But fine i'll let this go since everyone else seems to have decided you're peachy keen.

Tarkin, where are you in all this?

Brees, yeah i did agree with Owen. And I provided logical reasons for doing so instead of randomly voting with him and saying nothing like you did. By your own logic that makes you scum. I agreed with Owen because day 1 he seemed to be the only one who didn't have his head up his Ass. As for trying to be town leader, someone has to scumhunt, and we're in a small grouo with at least one, I haven't given up and decided to sit on my hands like the rest of you.

Luke. Thank you for your response. Makes sense to me.

[Vick]

Like I said. Pretty limp wristed.