Day 4 Discussion

[Raiden]

(i will steal your idea of the discussion thread, is this ok clawtrocity?)

The fact that miles and mrsmarter are voting flash confirm my theory that they are mafia. They were just waiting for a pretext to accuse him, and yesterday he made the mistake of clearing the serial killer, because sheriffs can't detect that. I think miles and mrsmarter are in the same mafia team

Also, it seems i have overlooked that Procyon claimed on day 3 to have a gun and that he would shot Styx. No one counterclaimed. Styx isn't dead, but i don't think procyon lied about having a gun. Styx may be the gf?

Again about Procyon, i was most probably mistaken when i believed him a sheriff. Rereading his investigation post, i realize just now that it's completely false (cearing mrsmarter and calling cyanblade mafia). I'm not sure anymore, he convinced me that he wasn't mafia, but now... i don't know.

Elixir claimed sheriff. Not sure about that, but he's definitely not a citizen.

What about Lysergic? Claw accused him of being a bad guy, then he was backed up by jack (understandable), and finally accused by miles and oops. No one else except dead citizens voted him. I believe he is in the mafia opposing miles.

My thoughts so far:
Massino mafia: Miles, MrSmarter, SAS (perhaps i was wrong on miles not being cult, or maybe he wasn't at the moment he claimed citizen)
Corleone mafia: Styx, Lysergic, ???
Cult Leader: Oops

[Raiden]

Oh, wait, i forgot miles claimed to have been roleblocked on night 1. Ok, reverse the two mafia lists. That's even consistent with miles not being culted.

[monster]

I don't know about Procyon. I think he is indeed sheriff and cyanblade was framed. He was roleblocked this night so he couldn't use his gun on styx. If that's true then Styx is with the Massinos. Maybe he will say he was RB when he comes online, who knows. :)

[Raiden]

You are right. I actually believe this is what really happened. It's also consistent with my previous theories.

[Zack]

I was given a gun, then shot by the mafia. lol

Effective...

[Raiden]

I was given a gun, then shot by the mafia. lol

Effective...


When?

[monster]

@Zack

You should have written a last will. Now nobody will take care of your cabbages and they will all die. :(

[TheJackofSpades]

About Claws "observations" I just want to say that I simply did not trusted him and that many of his observations are proofed wrong since most of the people he accused are dead or proofed town...
The sheer magnitude of this being wrong is... almost astounding.

[Raiden]

I don't know if my theories are true yet, but oops's vote to lynch Flash is again consistent with all i said earlier.

[Clawtrocity]

I had a feeling SAS was GF with Narks under him

Narks claimed Armorer and said he gave SAS a bunch of armor to protect himself. We also know that SAS is some Mafia role because Jack died to him. I really hope Narks is Mafia because if he isn't he's the biggest troll on the face of the planet...Even worse than Spy.

Oops, Styx, SAS, Rumpel, and Narks are bad.

Spy, Flash, and Miles are probably bad...I wouldn't doubt Spy being a Cit.

That'd make MrSmarter, Proc, Elixir, Sarzael, Lysergic, mrzwach(Fucking seriously? Hasn't said a word),

Also I know this is a shot in the water, but if you look at MrSmarter's investigations...
Zack was right = 1/4
If SAS is GF then = 2/4 = 50% = Makes sense.

Obviously a coin can be flipped and land on heads everytime, but it would make statistical sense if SAS was GF.

So I went 5/8 with my bad guy detection skills if I'm right here. I guessed their role wrong, but I guessed 5 of the 8 bad guys. I messed up on Proc, Elixir(Both of which I thought were doing nothing important) and Lysergic/Narks whichever one is the Armorer...Or which ever one isn't bad since I know I'm guessing the role wrong.

[Raiden]

Why do you think Flash is a bad guy? He claimed sheriff, and if we both agree that miles is mafia, he was correct up to this point. Sheriff can't detect SK or Cult, not even cult leader.

On the other hand, mrsmarter claimed innocent on SAS (who may or may not be gf, you can't count it as a confirmed positive result) and oops, who we both agree is not innocent. If he's the investigator, he's the most unlucky man on the planet.

[Clawtrocity]

Flash can't be Sheriff if I think Proc and Elixir are.

I have a slight feeling Sheriff can detect SK and the wording for that ability meant when they detect Mafia they can only detect "Mafia" not which family.

If Sheriff can't detect SK then something is seriously wrong.

[Clawtrocity]

"However, FlaSH's result cannot be explained. Out of the three, FlaSH must be the one who's lying."

Miles nailed it.

[Raiden]

Sheriffs only find Mafia, and not which type they are.


I know you read this multiple times however, to me, it sounds like sheriff cannot find sk and cult. I'd like some other people opinions on the matter, or better yet, a response from DR.

If you are correct, then flash is indeed a bad guy. If I am correct, tho, flash is the most believable of the three presumed sheriffs. Elixir only stated that styx is mafia (and he was being accused by a lot of people long before this claim), and procyon claimed inno on mrsmarter (not counting as a confirmed positive result) and mafia on cyanblade, who wasn't an obvious framer target at all, since he has been accused by everyone since day 1 (or 2) and was already an obvious bad guy. If massino believed he was corleone, there would have been no need for framing.

[Clawtrocity]

Yeah, DR better read this and clarify it for the players. Flash should try defending himself instead of giving up if he really is sheriff. That kind of mentality is weak and pathetic you should fight until you literally get the message "You are out of the game"

I knew I was going to die at night so I literally tried to claim 3 different scenario's hoping no one would attack me...I 100% guaruntee that the Corleone mafia was the one that killed me because they obviously knew my doctor claim was true since I couldn't be GF.

The only reason I lost is because the Armorer is a troll...Which makes me think Narks is even more clean.

C Mafia: SAS Oops Lysergic?
M Mafia: Rumpel Styx? Flash?
Cult: Spy or Miles?...Oh god I hope it isn't spy...
Sheriff: Proc
Sheriff: Elixir
Invest: MrSmarter
Gunsmith: Sarzael
Armorer: Narks
Citizen: mrzwach
Citizen: Spy or Miles?

It's gotta look something like that...Unless Dark gives us info on the Sheriff thing we know that Flash and SAS are 100% evil roles. Styx, Oops, and Rumpel are the next 3 highest probabilty for being bad. Last group you have Lysergic Spy and Miles(Only 2 of which can be bad).

Oops or Miles or Spy can all be Cult Leader. That'd make Miles C Mafia. That'd also make C Mafia the Mafia under Cult control.
All the town roles seem pretty solid as well other than Narks, but no one else claimed Armorer so we have the shittiest human being on the planet in Narks.

Oh yeah Narks could be culted with SAS, but it wouldn't of been until last night so he's still a super troll.

Dark said that 75% thing because just because Cult has 3 Mafia A and 1 Mafia B doesn't mean all of Mafia B wins. He said that to make sure they have enough time to invite the rest of the other mafia IF that's their plan. I doubt they have both Mafia yet or else Flash wouldn't be getting votes. Unless he's a douche in night chat...lol

[Raiden]

Let's assume you are correct on how the sheriff works, consequently flash must be a bad guy.

Re-examination:

if narks is indeed the armorer, and i believe it as well, your previous claim of SAS being the gf has got no ground, unless i missed some connection between the two in the meta-game. Are they irl friends? Are they cheating? I can imagine narks playing against its faction for the lulz, but how would he knew that SAS was gf in the first place?

You say you know that it was corleone mafia to shot you because you couldn't be gf... what does this prove? I am missing something here. Nevertheless that's probably true, because massino had the power to roleblock you until the end of times so you weren't a big threat to them.

"If flash is mafia, we know that the cult doesn't have both mafia". I agree. Well yeah unless he's a douche, lol. I still don't believe it tho.

Miles as the cult leader... sounds plausibile in this scenario. He was voted mostly by the one we believe to be town members, except flash and lysergic.

As long as DR doesn't give us more info, i think at least one of us is correct.

[Clawtrocity]

Actually now that you mention the thing about Narks...Narks could of been lying about being armorer, but that'd mean that the only possible Armorer is mrzwach who's AFK. If that's indeed what is going on then I'll be thoroughly upset. That or for some reason...

Cult Recruits Mafia
Mafia agrees not to kill cult
Cult recruits random people finds Narks
Narks is in the cult helping mafia

That's what happened. That's why Dark was giving the warning. The cult HAS to recruit the rest of the C.Mafia or else the ones not recruited will lose.

Obviously when someone is recruited they can go back and read everything so let's say Narks was recruited 2nd or 3rd night. He could read back on the conversation Oops was having with Miles about how "SAS is GF and X is other mafia" Don't worry about recruiting them just find the other mafia/town power roles.

So we have Narks, Oops, Hell even the sheriff's might be in the Cult...Elixir and Proc...
I'm trying to figure this out, but it looks more and more like the Cult has already won and only need time to recruit the rest of the people. I.E. Rest of C.Mafia.
Spy or Miles = Cult leader
Night 1: Oops
Night 2: Narks
Night 3: Elixir ?
Night 4: Proc ?
Night 5: SAS - Probably
Night 6: Styx - Probably
GG Cult wins.

I think that's the situation they are in now. They made the perfect move of not recruiting more Mafia the first night because if they did that they wouldn't gain as much voting power as bringing in an outsider.

Flash could even be the real sheriff in this situation if Dark gives us the info about the SK detect.

The only main reason we lost was because the invest was underpowered, the sheriffs(Claimed) to have only checked innocent or dead people, the armorer was a troll/cult, the gunsmith didn't know the rules, and the citizens did nothing but not talk or RP...Lookin at you Zack.

Oh and the doctor was a complete retard and Masons had no chance with them dying each night they were recruited.

[Raiden]

So you think the cult leader recruited 1 mafia, who in turn said to his fellows "hey i have been culted, just wait a couple days and you will be culted too" and then the cult leader proceeded in recruiting some other random people. This may very well be a possibility, due to the cult appeal in this game, lol.

However i don't think that Narks is cult, i would hate to have a trollplayer in my faction if i were the CL. I find more likely that he's just a trollcitizen or the unculted trollarmorer. That's the only reason i have, tho, i admit it's not a very strong point.

I agree on the investigator being underpowered tho. As i said in another thread, even masons are better than investigators in this ruleset. I would rather have a multiple roles chance for the invest, like in sc2 mafia. You know like "this guy may be the doctor or the sk". Some adjustement are due for the new roles, but it's nothing that can't be worked out.

That being said, the masons were REALLY REALLY unlucky, jack recruited only 1 citizen who was killed the night after and then died of mismasoning. I think this is the main reason we - i mean the town, i forgot that i was the goddamn jester, the first player losing the game and the only one shot by TWO people - lost.

Also, what do you think about jack's decision of not writing the name of his target in the last will?

[Clawtrocity]

It was a smart idea, but with it being the third night and 8 people dead? I think he should of done it.

His plan was smart...Wait until there was a backup Mason that can hide so in case Jack gets shot and recruits another Mason the mafia/cult don't know who that guy is, but in case he dies of mismasoning they have a bad guy.

We can look back on it now and say how bad of an idea it was, but I think he may of made the right call. If he called out SAS then sas dies and cult/M.Mafia win. I think if anything he shouldn't of even tried masoning him without leaving a note. SAS was extremely suspicious and I would of gone for Zack, Auckmid, Miles, or Spy...Screw spy nvm.

I can't wait til the next game. Hopefully we lose some of the bad players and it becomes a lot more interesting, but we'll have to wait and see how this game turns out first.

[Raiden]

Of course if there was another mason it would have been a great idea, but with him being alone, i would have definitely written my target in the last will. And yeah, i too would have gone for auckmid or mcpwnage first (i believe they were the first to claim citizen).

Imo, if you claim citizen in this setup, chances are that you are really a citizen. Or the cult leader. Either way they are the only roles which take advantage to draw the attention of masons instead of that of the cult.

[Raiden]

Oh and there is yet another thing that might support your theory of narks being culted in night 2. If he's the armorer, the cult knew you wouldn't have one, so they knew you would have died soon. And that is why they didn't recruit you, assuming they went for random target after finding the first mafia, a thing i am still unsure about.

[TheJackofSpades]

I'm not saying my decision to not reveal who I was recruiting until I had another mason under my wing if things went wrong was flawless, and I'm not saying my decision to recruit S.A.S. was flawless either. However, my goal was to recruit the most subtle possibility of citizen to hopefully prevent them from dying the same night like what happened to False. The only problem is I overlooked the possibility of the individual mafia members not having to each submit a night action, only collectively.

This was my mistake, but it was the best I could do. I was right in one respect though, the citizens who declared died, so recruiting them would have been as pointless as me recruiting False. The only difference is that I would have survived another day.

I think Narks is just trolling his ass off, he claims he didn't sign up for the game, and while I believe it more likely he deleted his post in the sign-up thread to lend more credence to this claim, it doesn't change the fact that he could quite possibly be motivated solely by this fact.

[TheJackofSpades]

For those who are confused, there are three claimed sheriffs. Elixir, Procyon, and FlaSH. This is impossible. One of these three are clearly some sort of evil role.

Elixir's results are a guilty on Styx, and all his other investigations are dead.
Procyon's results are an inno on mrzwarch, an inno on mrsmarter, and a guilty on CyanBlade.
FlaSH's results are a guilty on me, an inno on oops, and an inno on CyanBlade.

CyanBlade turned out to be the serial killer. Procyon's result is explainable through framing, and CyanBlade was a logical framing target. A lot of people found him very suspicious day 2, and mentioned it in thread.

However, FlaSH's result cannot be explained. Out of the three, FlaSH must be the one who's lying.

Can someone explain to me how anyone could believe this? Why is the scenario surrounding Procyon's investigations and Flash's investigations any different? They both could have investigated someone who was framed, Sheriff cannot detect SK, so unless he's suggesting he knows oops is evil, this reasoning is completely flawed.

Can someone explain this to me?

[Raiden]

Sheriff cannot detect SK


^ key words. Read previous posts for more insight.

[Deolrin]

FlaSH's results are a guilty on me
His point is that he's not evil, I guess. :P

[Clawtrocity]

Learn to read. Serial Killer cannot be detected by cops.

So Proc or Elixir. One of them is lying. Possibly Proc since he claims to be roleblocked and someone framed his target...Maybe he's M.Mafia?

[monster]

Sigh.... dead chat day4 has almost as many posts as real game day4. They almost stopped playing. On the bright side - Flash is probably both mafia and culted seeing how he wasn't instavoted, so it could be a small victory lynching him.

[TheJackofSpades]

I think it's most likely that of the three, Elixir is probably the liar. He provides no real information from his investigations, yet conveniently hits a mafia to make his claim more "believable" while offering no other possible downsides to doing so because there's no one else left to dispute his other guesses.

[monster]

Hmmmm I went to reread Flash's posts and although he posted a lot of one-liner spam, his messages from DR seem authentic - very interesting, seeing as he accuses Miles and Miles tries hard to lynch him. For some reason I just don't want to believe Flash, but there is some evidence that he is be sheriff, not good for town.

[Raiden]

Ok, so we solved the sk detection issue. I stand by my previous statements, and claim flash innocent.

I'm not sure about both Procyon and Elixir. Both want the same target dead (Styx). Both have plausible but not-so-helpful investigation results. I'm still inclined to believe Cyanblade wasn't framed at all, and Procyon used him as a mean to prove his sheriff claim, believing he was a mafia bad guy. I'd say 55% Procyon is mafia and 35% Elixir is mafia. 10% that they are both mafia and someone else is the last sheriff.

That being said, i also believe that Procyon was really roleblocked, thus making him a possible corleone member, and Styx a Massino member. Maybe the corleones tried to kill two targets and they sent Procyon to kill Styx and someone else to kill Zack, while massinos attacked the GF.

...but then again, Flash is not willing to vote Styx, which is 101% mafia to me. Maybe he's just confused now. Or maybe he's in the same mafia as Styx. This is getting nowhere.

Lysergic is also reluctant to vote Styx. This is consistent with my first post theories. SAS, on the other hand, voted him no probs, confirming that he's probably in the Corleone mafia. Might be GF as claw said.

[Zack]

Sigh.... dead chat day4 has almost as many posts as real game day4. They almost stopped playing.


Thats cus they rudely decided to kill their new mayor! Or i'd be posting back and forth as before...

I almost hoped the cult would recruit the supreme cabbage to their cause and worship the god of cabbages instead. But hey, they never did.

So now i'm dead and my cabbages are rotting away in the sun... The tragedy...

[TheJackofSpades]

Lezard Valeth is just as likely to stab you in the back the moment you recruit him into your cult. Too high risk.

[monster]

So DR extended the day cos of inactivity and almost 12 hours later again no activity whatsoever.

[Clawtrocity]

Proc Oops Spy Miles MrSmarter Narks Elixir and S.A.S just voted to lynch Styx.

That means Lysergic probably isn't cult leader.

SAS Miles and Oops are probably the Mafia and 1 one of them is culted
Spy Narks MrSmarter Elixir and Proc = 1 Bad townie(Possibly Elixir) 3 Culted people and 1 cult leader...Which means it's fucking spy.

That means Rumpel Styx and 1 more person are Mafia.
Sarzael is unculted Gunsmith
mrzwach is Citizen

I kind of lost track, but I'm basically completely wrong. None of us are right. We only guessed a few things here and there, but you can't play a game with people like Spy and Narks and to a lesser extent Flash.

Oh well hopefully they will end the game quickly so we can play another one shortly. This one didn't go too bad other than the town sucking, getting horribly unlucky, and having no evil role die at night to another evil role.

[Raiden]

Yeah we made up quite the mess there... I could say anything and even i wouldn't be totally convinced. At least this means that the forum mafia experiment was incredibly successful, both for the living and the dead. The reason why there haven't been so many posts today is just that it's an hot sunday, i guess sane people went outside and such. And by the way there are more post than day 1, there's no reason to complain.

Looking forward to the next game, i didn't think i would enjoy this so much. Hope i won't die in the first 2 night, too.

[Auckmid]

Styx is dead, but I wonder why his role hasnt been revealed yet?

[Clawtrocity]

Nevermind, Lysergic jumped into it also...Thank god. Maybe he is cult leader. =P

[Auckmid]

I would literally LOL if Styx turned out to be Cult Leader

[Clawtrocity]

STYX IS MASSINO MAFIA!!

BOOYAH BOOYAH

I don't know why I'm happy, but it's kind of neat.

I also don't think Miles was the one chosen for the attack first night and hopefully Spy was attacked...I'd love to of at least gotten 1 heal right.

[Raiden]

Well he was indeed massino. You even got the exact role, but i don't think it was planned, or was it?

@Auckmid: he couldn't have been the cult leader, or not even culted after the events of today :p

Aaaaaaand... miles is so dead. If the massino don't shoot him this night, i don't know what are they aiming at. If they are smart, i think they will roleblock SAS. It's the only other guy who is 100% corleone out there. And then, if the corleones are smart, they will send the other mafioso to kill flash.

[Clawtrocity]

No they will be aiming for the cult leader.

This is what I didn't understand.

Half the town was already dead...They knew who a Mafia was...Why would they not be trying to kill the Mafia off now that the town was already down on it's bad luck.

Even if he ended up not being Mafia...I don't get the mentality in not killing him. I hope between the end of this game and the start of the new game dark opens all the boards to all the people and lets us read everything that went on before deleting it all.

[Clawtrocity]

Why wouldn't they try to kill the other Mafia off*

My analogy was pretty good. They were too obsessed with finishing off a wounded duck and they got murdered by the other grizzly bear.

[Raiden]

Although you have a point there, there was plentiful of targets to shoot on night 4.

Miles, accused of being mafia.
Flash, a claimed sheriff, accused by Miles of being mafia.
Procyon, the other claimed sheriff.
MrSmarter, claimed investigator.
Narks, accused of being the cult leader. He was even helped to survive the night before.
Oops, accused to lying when he claimed investigator, and accused again by procyon.
and finally Spy who does need a reason to be shot.

None of them died. They shot Zack instead. I honestly cannot explain that. There were targets for all the tastes, both mafia, town, even the cult leader (although i am pretty sure no one believed that claim).

[Raiden]

Spy doesn't need*