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Ryze
March 22nd, 2012, 06:26 AM
I require your forum identity and role.


But I don't know if you're Assassin or Abstergo. I will tell you this:I am Dust. I will also tell you that I am a town PR. I will not tell you which flavor of PR because I have absolutely no way of knowing your alignment.


For all I know, you could be Lucy Stillman or not. I will setup a code so that I can tell you my role during the day chat. I will also makecodes for each possible town PR so that you do not know my role. I would also like to know your identity so that I may trust you just that much more (during daychat).

P.S. It's interesting being on this side of a jailor talk


And please don't be like the last jailor who jailed me in FM (Auckmid in FM6). He was retarded and wouldn't talk much.


You've got to understand something, Jailor. Town will not trust you until Lucy Stillman is in the graveyard. If you are Lucy Stillman, then it's going to be your problem (it'll be more pronounced if the town Jailor is dead).

As it is, you should want me to get out of this jailcell because I won't claim to you when you have power over me. If you give a resounding argument on why I should claim here and not in code during the day chat, then I might claim. As it is, I don't know your alignment.


I understand your reluctance. I will return in a short amount of time, so that we can talk more in-depth.

The most important thing so far is, should I give him my forum identity or not? I'm thinking no, of course, but perhaps it could be used to our advantage, or I could lie.

Soraka
March 22nd, 2012, 09:10 AM
When I think about Dust, only one role pops in mind: Jailor. He was Jailor in two Mini-FM games, and he could be Supervisor himself. If you tell him the code, he might jail you himself or allow the real Jailor to point out your identity.

So here is my primary suggestion: Claim a false COM name, and tell him that you agree to his terms, but do not respond to his code at all. If he makes his code too simple, someone else might pick up the code phrase and Dust will think that he is supervisor.

One good way to mislead him is to make another person to pose as Jailor. For example, Oops can claim himself as Capitalier, and then Capitalier himself responds to Dust's code. After seeing the code Dust will probably ask Security Detail to check Kennen's alignment. Capitalier, who is immune to detection, will show up to SD as "not suspicious", which will make Abstergo think that he is real Jailor. The downside of that method is that Investigator will blow up Kennen's lie, and of course dead Supervisor will also blow him up.

Soraka
March 22nd, 2012, 09:17 AM
If this guy is really Dust and a town PR, then he is dangerous. I would kill him as soon as I could. But he could an ordinary agent as well. He could be already thiking that he was jailed by Assassins, just because you responded with something like that:
"I understand your reluctance. I will return in a short amount of time, so that we can talk more in-depth."

I'm not asking Escaho to check him, but even as a citizen he is still difficult to deal with. Make him to give us some leads, while leaving none in return. Or threaten him with death and make him write a last will which can be checked by Raptorblaze.

Ryze
March 22nd, 2012, 12:05 PM
Unfortunately I will be out, away from the computer, for nearly 10-12 hours. You may be speaking to the walls if you are on at that time.


Disguiser codes (My first post of the day will be these in the post's entirety):
D2: Two halves do not make a whole
D3: The grasshopper knows grass
D4: The fish is the envy of the fisherman's friend
D5: A crane is sure to find water
D6: A village in tyranny knows no limits
D7: Moss is mild
D8: The weaver wears rags

I think that's enough for now.

I think he wants my FM identity. Should I claim a fake identity, and if yes, then who?

Morgana
March 22nd, 2012, 01:19 PM
Giving your real identity would be a terrible misstep, in my opinion. If that really is Dust, he will scour your posts and try to determine your true allegiance. Anyone who sounds sensible would be a good claim.

HOWEVER, KNOW THIS: Dust would NEVER claim his true COM identity to anyone unless he trusted them 100% (and even then he probably would not confirm it). He trusted my Mason claim by Day 4 of the last FM, but this is only Day 1. No Jailor would give out their real identity Day 1 because they do not know who they jailed.

The thing is you should be interrogating him, not the other way around. Let him fish for information all he wants. What you want to do is to give him a code that you can use to reveal yourself to him, but never actually use it. Something easy, like Soraka said (some code phrase, likely. What would be hilarious is if you jailed someone the next night and forced THEM to say that code phrase as a Disguiser check. This would make Dust think that they are the jailor and, if he finds out they are lying (by us killing the real jailor), we can begin the mind games.

Katarina
March 22nd, 2012, 01:52 PM
^^^ I actually really like this idea, but we need to find the jailor first to fuck with him.

Also, DO NOT GIVE DUST ANY INFO, YOU are the one with the power, NOT HIM! You are Anonymous, you can kill him if you so please. You ask for information

Orianna
March 22nd, 2012, 01:54 PM
I'm going to be checking for his last will tonight.

Ryze
March 22nd, 2012, 03:18 PM
I cannot give out my identity because I can't be sure that you aren't mafia, or neutral. If I ever need to, I will claim in daychat by posting "Ladies and gentlemen, I do believe we are fucked" in its own post.

I think you're lying. You are not a town PR. If you truly are protecting your identity under the premises of not trusting me, you would not have claimed that, because if I was the scum jailor, I could just relay that info right back to my buddies and get you killed tonight. It would, after all, be a better choice than shooting someone at random and possibly hitting a citizen. And only revealing that you are a town PR, and not revealing your exact role as well, is pointless, since to a mafia with no info, it doesn't matter what kind of PR they shoot, as long as they are guaranteed to hit one.

I suggest you reveal your exact role, because you don't seem very trustworthy to me at the moment.

Let's see what he says.

Kennen
March 22nd, 2012, 03:23 PM
that is pleasant

Morgana
March 22nd, 2012, 03:31 PM
This is starting to sound like Dust is a Citizen looking to get executed (a wasted execution for us). He's hoping you are the Mafia jailor that will execute him. Unless this is an elaborate double bluff...

Is it possible for you to execute and then -unexecute before night ends? Because an "execute" action will get him talking if he thinks he's about to die. You could easily be an overzealous town jailor that thinks he is lying (can you even execute Night 1?). This will get him to talk, then you cancel the execution action and say that you believe he is telling the truth ("...for now..."). Definitely ask Elixir if you can cancel an execution order first though, because we wouldn't want to balls that up.

Ryze
March 22nd, 2012, 04:09 PM
Yeah, you can cancel the execution.

Ryze
March 22nd, 2012, 06:47 PM
Okay, I am a citizen. It was all wifom. You are acting much like someone who would be a Lucy Stillman. I have analyzed my posts and I see nothing suspicious about them. Tell me why you jailed me and I might trust you more. If your reasons seem legitimate then I will claim.


Also, I didn't want to claim after you reveal yourself. I would claim beforehand. I'm still wifoming a PR because you are piquing my suspicion. I just want to have some insurance that I leave this cell. I'm not putting my role in my last will. The only way you get that information is if I leave this cell alive.


Role-Claim matrix (If I call someone this type of animal):
Mayor: Tiger
Sheriff: Grasshopper
Investigator: Crane
Vigilante: Ant
Jailor: pointless (If I were the jailor I would know for certain that you're Lucy)
Doctor: Fly
Bus Driver: Dragon
Coroner: Panda
Escort: Cat
Bodyguard: Dog
Detective: Mouse
Lookout: Monkey
Veteran: Fish
Gunsmith: Butterfly
Armorsmith: Toad
Journalist: Elephant
Citizen: Tortoise


So I see you aren't a citizen? What the hell kind of games are you trying to play?

I assure you that I am not mafia aligned, and I chose your name at random. However, I'm not entirely certain of your allegiance, thus...

//emergency desync protocol activate

You have until the end of the night to convince me to cancel this.

I don't actually plan to execute him, but let's see what he does.

Ryze
March 22nd, 2012, 07:13 PM
Action claim matrix (I will quote the person and say the word):
Mayor: ???
Sheriff: Rice (if NS), Noodles (if Assassin), Chow Mein (if New Abstergo)
Investigator: Master (Nth word shows what investigation message)
Vigilante: Kick (if I shot him), Strike (if I planted a bug to possibly day-kill)
Jailor: ???
Doctor: Zen (if healed but not attacked), Chaos (if healed and attacked)
Bus Driver: Wings (target A), Feet (target B)
Coroner: Master (Nth word shows what role), Fiend (Nth word correlates to graveyard [don't count prologue kills]) {all in second post of day}
Escort: Red
Bodyguard: Bamboo
Detective: Vines (target), Honor (target visited this person)
Lookout: Forbidden (target), Emperor (visitors)
Veteran: Chicken (if I went on alert)
Gunsmith: Ninja
Armorsmith: Child
Journalist: Desert (expect this later in the day, I will have to decide sometime)
Citizen: ???


If you are the town aligned jailor then you are making a grave mistake.


But I am pretty sure you're Lucy Stillman


Show me where I am suspicious


Also, if you're Lucy Stillman and you kill me then all your possible influence (death) will fly away like so many birds. If you are town aligned then may I direct you to a thread on the forum about failors?


You are suspicious by claiming town PR, yet not giving your exact role. You wanted to make yourself look important to me so I wouldn't fear being called a failor by killing you, yet you hadn't thought out your plan enough, or wanted to give yourself some flexibility. Looks quite scummy to me. I've already explained my reasoning.


My bad, I meant to say that I WOULD fear being called a failor if I killed you.

adasdasf

Morgana
March 22nd, 2012, 07:27 PM
Heh, he's getting scared now. Give him another few replies then let him off the hook. If you keep him under "execution orders" too long, he'll confirm you in his mind as Lucy Stillman. If you rescind the order soon, be sure to tell him that you never had any intention of going through with the execution. Tell him you agree that he should be wary that you are Lucy Stillman and that it is that worry that leads you to believe he is a Town member. Reassure him that you are not aligned with the mafia, but don't force the issue too much. Tell him you are interested in setting up a network with the town power roles and give him a phrase to use if he wants to be jailed for protection.

This should gain you some trust with him.

Maokai
March 22nd, 2012, 09:37 PM
Seriously dude you need to make it clear to him that it doesn't matter how nice he's acting in jail chat, he of all people should know that you cannot trust him unless he can prove himself beyond a reasonable doubt to be trustworthy.

Sympathize with his situation but don't budge on it; the jailor is an important role that cannot place blind trust in people because they seem sincere a la FM8.

Ryze
March 23rd, 2012, 11:53 AM
I am fairly certain that I was jailed by Lucy Stillman because you gave no good reason for jailing me. When I play as jailor I always take good careful notes and jail only those people who I think would either be harmful to town, or would be helpful to reveal to and set up a code. You have used neither.

I am now certain that I will either waste Erudito's action tonight with him trying to figure out my role and put in my last will that the Assassin jailor has no more kills left.

You do not see how I would mess you up so much.

Coming from a citizen.


This is your understanding?



These two posts do not make sense together. That is why I think you are Lucy Stillman.


No. Don't skew what I said. I came on quickly to read your posts and immediately had to leave. I had already thought out most of what I later posted, but I did not have time to put it in words.

Day 1 is useless for info. It is just trolling with no strategizing. I picked a target at random because I had nothing better to go by, and it seems that I made a good move in that.

Are you claiming citizen?


Of course I'm claiming citizen. I'm also claiming town PR.


Day one is not useless at all. The times that I've done best are the times when I take extremely careful notes on people on days 1 and 2.


Right.

What are your plans for this game, should I decide not to kill you?


I would also like to know your true role. Even if I am the mafia jailor, there is no harm in telling me, since you'd die anyway for your town PR claim. But, as the town jailor, I'd rather not see fellow townies die, but with all this uncertainty surrounding you, I cannot be sure.


My plans for this game are to be killed taking the bullet for a PR.

My plans for this game are to find scum by using my night actions and scum-hunting techniques like Muso does.

My goal for this game is to find Yayap and kill him (grudge from FMVIII)


You want my true role? Let me live through the night. I will claim in the day chat one of the roles on my matrix up there. You won't get it tonight.


And if you're the mafia jailor and kill me tonight, then I will be wasting one of Erudito's actions.


Here are my arguments for keeping me alive for each possibility of your role. I happen to be an expert on your role (regardless of your alignment) so you should listen with an open mind.

If you are Town:
-I am town
-I am smart (people tell me that. I think it's true:/ )
-You would be wasting your one kill on the first night (when I played jailor in FM10 I never killed and looking back on M-FM2 I shouldn't have killed + people will call you a failor after the game)
-You would know what role I am if you let me live
-You would have a steady stream of information (provided I live through a lot of the game) about my night actions (regardless if they exist or not)
-I am looking for someone to kill. Trying to find someone in a crowd makes one take careful notes. Careful notes lead to finding mafia
-I will make it a priority for the town to find and kill Lucy Stillman because I find it hard to trust you. Very hard considering how I'm not scum but you seem to think me scum.
-People will be reluctant to claim to you if you kill and they don't know which jailor is which (unless Lucy Stillman is dead)

If you are Mafia:
-I am wifom'ing a citizen wifom'ing a PR. You will only know my true role if Erudito checks my body.
-You would be wasting your one kill (if you are Lucy then you need that one kill for someone who shows threat to the mafia + I am putting it into my last will that the assassin jailor has no more kills, for the coroner)
-You get a steady stream of information (You would have a steady stream of information (provided I live through a lot of the game) about my night actions (regardless if they exist or not)
-I have a grudge against someone and will kill him regardless of his role.
-I have been known to make mistakes in judgement if circumstances are ambiguous
-I have a connection to another player (Sumikoko) that may make me falter in my duties
-People will be reluctant to claim to you if you kill and they don't know which jailor is which

I will tell you now that if I had a night action it would be on one or two of these people:
Corki
Jarvan IV
Lux
Nasus
Sona
Veigar


Okay, I will give into the pressure. I am an armorsmith. I don't want to screw this FM up. I think you really are Lucy Stillman but I could be wrong. I am giving some armor to Jarvan IV because of his mid-to-low post count. PRs hide at that level post count so that's what I'll do.

I don't want to die. I don't think you want to use your one kill this early in the game. We both benefit. I am allowing for the distinct possibility that you are town but I doubt it. You're semi-right about mafia knowing about PRs. Some PRs mess with them more than others. If you do kill me now, after I have told you my real role, then you are sure to be Lucy Stillman and I will be 100% correct when I put into my last will "Lucy has no more punch; she killed me"


I will be back for discussion aprox. 4 hours before night ends.


I think I'll believe you for now.

//emergency desync protocol deactivate

I reassure you that I am not Lucy Stillman.

Now that you've claimed your true role, do you mind outlining your plan for the game, or have you already told me all your thoughts?

I'm thinking of getting a new random jailor account tomorrow night and rejailing him, perhaps to see what he says when he thinks he is jailed by the other jailor, but that seems like a waste of a jail to me. Thoughts?

Katarina
March 23rd, 2012, 12:26 PM
I'm thinking of getting a new random jailor account tomorrow night and rejailing him, perhaps to see what he says when he thinks he is jailed by the other jailor, but that seems like a waste of a jail to me. Thoughts?

I say wait on deciding who to jail, until Day 2 is almost over, jail someone who is scummy enough to be either a PR or mafia

Morgana
March 23rd, 2012, 12:51 PM
I'm thinking of getting a new random jailor account tomorrow night and rejailing him, perhaps to see what he says when he thinks he is jailed by the other jailor, but that seems like a waste of a jail to me. Thoughts?

No, I would not do that. We need information and we know that, unless he claims, he will never be healed. He is an easy kill tomorrow night, though he may claim his true role tomorrow day in order to be healed (the last thing we need is a heal chain). However, he could still be a Citizen WIFOMing a power role to see if you'll kill him [as mafia would definitely want the Armorsmith dead pretty quickly].

What I would do is set up another code: one for Dust to use if he is jailed by the other jailor that he must include in the first post of the day so that you have that information. Try and assure him that, if he is jailed again, it will be Lucy Stillman who wants him dead. Tell him to be wary and that it would be in his interest to appear as a neutral to the other jailor (Survivor would work well).

This way, the jailor might actually execute him for us. It's a slim possibility, but it is still possible. Might as well try everything in the book.

Also, I propose that you begin talking to your jailed targets in all capital letters. This will not only separate you from the jailor who jailed Dust (so they cannot compare notes if they decide to do so in day chat), but it is much harder to tell who someone is when they are using a different writing style. Do not start doing this now, but wait until the next night. If you use it now, Dust will assume someone told you to change your writing style.

(What happens if you jail the same target as the Town Jailor? Do you both participate in the same night chat? If so, this is another good reason to only use capital letters.)