SURVEY

[Lazers]

AKA "Homework"

[Goremancer]

nukes are always good. Reduces overpopulation problems. Needs more of that or need a disease that wipes 70% of the ppl out.

[Crimson]

I will never approve of killing of the innocent. Kill off the prisoners.

[Nick]

Was it is a good thing to "kill a few" to "save many"?

Also,

Was it is a good thing to "conduct (a complete and successful) genocide" to "guarantee (totally confirmed) peace"?

[Kromos]

We did about this being justified or not in history but I can't remember enough to make an informed choice. I'll just go with no because killing innocents is not ok, killing soldiers is more ok.

[Nick]

Define innocent. Define soldier.

Male/females, fit/unfit or young/elderly:
1) supporting the war directly or indirectly by
2) working in factories manufacturing weapons and ammunition
3) producing food for the army
4) delivering supplies
5) moral support
6) did not disagree openly against the war
7) indoctrinate hate towards the enemy
8) reproduce to replenish the army

Conclusion: Purge them all. Leave none alive. Avoid future repercussions.

Can't argue against this, can you?

[Kromos]

Define innocent. Define soldier.

Male/females, fit/unfit or young/elderly:
1) supporting the war directly or indirectly by
2) working in factories manufacturing weapons and ammunition
3) producing food for the army
4) delivering supplies
5) moral support
6) did not disagree openly against the war
7) indoctrinate hate towards the enemy
8 ) reproduce to replenish the army


This is all true and with conscription + propaganda soldiers can't always be held to blame either. However thousands of people died in those cities who wanted nothing to do with the war. No soldier (at least in the US) was forced to fight (they might have been put in jail but they would not have been put into battle if they refused to go). They died of their own free will and in most cases died doing what they believed was right while the 'innocent' Japanese got annihilated with no say in it or even a warning.

Like I said I would need to know more information about it. From what I can remember it was Japan that started the war against the US in order to build their empire, although surely that was the dream of the few and not the many?

Should thousands of people be killed because of a few power hungry individuals?

Was there a better way to resolve this conflict that didn't result in the death of thousands of bystanders?

Did they try hard enough to find a better resolution?

I looked it up on wikipedia and the death toll was a lot less than I thought it was. If you look at it in terms of numbers then it could have been the right thing to do. It can be difficult to put a number on life but I would agree with killing a few to save many but only if there was no better way. You should watch Torchwood: Children of Earth to see about that although the circumstances are a bit different.

[CmG]

Dunno if it was good or bad i don't know how it would have been if they had not dropped it on Hiroshima. Well you forgot nagasaki they got bombed as well.

The good thing was. The war was instantly over after the bombs. The bad many deaths radioactive environment. Then the rest depends on how much you value life, morality, religion.

I am glad nobody bombs Germany.

All in all it doesnt matter because the winner always writes history. So it will look like a more positive move in the books then negative.

[Ganondorf]

I am Japanese and there are no hard feelings... also, the end justifies the means. Nagasaki may have been overkill though...

[CmG]

The USA can be glad that they bombed Japan and not Jerusalem. Oh dear!

[Nick]

I'm not referring to Japanese here. Lets make it...

1) Chinese Empire - steppe tribes
2) British Empire - natives
3) Spanish Empire - natives
4) Mongol Empire - other kingdoms

Those four make Hitler's genocide look childish. Gas chamber hah. So humane. Like a sissy.
Culling is the word. Do it with sword and fire. Or whittle them off with famine and hunger.

5) Israel - Palestine
6) Other conflicts

[Kromos]

Stalin's purges were pretty bad.

[NorthStar]

How can I hate the only history that has ever come to happen?

[Nick]

If I'm remember correctly, initial Japanese expansion was to build an empire and to project their local power. And why do you think the previously inward looking Japanese did so? The Black Ship incident.

They won against the Russians, Koreans and Chinese. Western power saw the ascension of the Japanese empire and was alarmed. Tried to starve them from resources produced obviously from their occupied colonies. That was when Japan expanded southwards to Southeast Asia.

Attacking Pearl Harbor was about control of the Pacific region. Didn't read about their reason for attacking a still neutral US. Preemptive strike?

If you ever read history, one bad deed deserves another. World War II was the result of World War I. World War I was the results of other political power play. The assassination was just an excuse for war.

[Glip]

My mother always said the ends don't justify the means. She would answer this with a resounding NO!

As for me, I would say it depends on your point of view. I can't imagine the Japanese at the time thought it was too good of a thing. The Americans of the time would see it as justified by having brought about the end of the war and thus saving countless other lives that could have been lost. An environmentalist or humanitarian would look upon it as horrible, for obvious reasons.

As I see it, whether it was a good or bad thing cannot be truthfully defined and doesn't matter in the ultimate scheme of things. It happened. Nothing will change that. People will act based upon whether the event influenced them in a positive or a negative way. That is all.

[Nick]

Stalin's purges were pretty bad.

Other purges include
1) Mao's
2) Pol Pot's
3) and a list of others

But these are not genocide.

[Ubernox]

Definitely not justified. And look what it caused? The display of destructive power was one factor towards causing the cold war.

They killed innocent people. This was not the right way of doing things. Soldiers killing soldiers is fair game, but these were families. Women and children. And they didn't have a chance.

[Nick]

Definitely not justified. And look what it caused? The display of destructive power was one factor towards causing the cold war.

They killed innocent people. This was not the right way of doing things. Soldiers killing soldiers is fair game, but these were families. Women and children. And they didn't have a chance.

Collateral damage. As in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and a few other countries.

Cold War is cold for them but hot for the others.

[Necrolord]

I answered NO, despite the fact it was the only way to end WW2 in Japan at the time. OH, YOU CAN SEE THE BENEFITS OF THAT BOMB BEING DROPPED TODAY!!!

The NATO nations are timid to send troops into Syria, because Iran's there threatening nuclear rain on us. Can't invade North Korea, not even strategic bombing - they'll retaliate with nukes. Nothing can get done because of nukes. So much money is wasted because of nukes. Hey, I guess it keeps a few thousand soldiers busy watching them.

[Jim]

Overall i would say it was good.
This ended the war and stopped many more deaths on both sides.
We were firebombing the towns anyway so that was killing everyone, we just use this as a threat to end the war.
The Japanese had too much pride and would have never given up and let all their people die if this didn't happen.
Either way civilians were dying this just ended the war and made it a lot less deaths on both parts.

[Jim]

I answered NO, despite the fact it was the only way to end WW2 in Japan at the time. OH, YOU CAN SEE THE BENEFITS OF THAT BOMB BEING DROPPED TODAY!!!

The NATO nations are timid to send troops into Syria, because Iran's there threatening nuclear rain on us. Can't invade North Korea, not even strategic bombing - they'll retaliate with nukes. Nothing can get done because of nukes. So much money is wasted because of nukes. Hey, I guess it keeps a few thousand soldiers busy watching them.

1. Well we are not stopping Syria because Russia is a part of NATO, Russia is sending in materials to the Syrian government and makes a shit ton of money this way. Russia is threatening to cut off relations with other countries who interfere because they are making so much money not because of nukes.
2. Iran doesn't have nukes we are just pussies.
3. North Korea has enriched uranium but they MIGHT not have nukes. (they probably do but because they are so secretive its not 100% sure.)

[Goremancer]

Nukes didn't do a good enough job. We need a massive massacre to occur on overpopulated countries before a disease gets created where ALL humans die.

[Jim]

I also forgot that this bomb didn't even kill that many people.
The bomb only killed people within like a three mile radius from the blast.
The shock wave and air blast killed almost everyone, all their houses were made of wood and sticks so they just blew over and killed people, this wasnt accounted for i am guessing.

[Necrolord]

Nukes didn't do a good enough job. We need a massive massacre to occur on overpopulated countries before a disease gets created where ALL humans die.

A while ago, a corrupt Canadian Government minister named Bev Oda was seen signing $173 million Canadian tax dollars to feeding Africa. $20 million MAY get to the refugees, but we all know better. Thanks to these shitty countries that can't PULL OUT OF THE WOMAN, we now hate the concept of charity. Let's say ALL the money got there: would it go into birth control education? Or would it just buy a bunch of fucking grain and water, and saying "YOU'RE ALL SET!"

MintBerry, you're probably right, it wasn't that big of a bomb compared to the TSAR BOMBA LOL

[Goremancer]

Africa isn't that overpopulated. Asia has more population than other continents by a long shot. China and India is getting out of hand with their numbers. Now that the wealth per capita is increasing in China more ppl are buying cars. With more cars means more pollution. Means shit is going down.

[Jim]

Africa isn't that overpopulated. Asia has more population than other continents by a long shot. China and India is getting out of hand with their numbers. Now that the wealth per capita is increasing in China more ppl are buying cars. With more cars means more pollution. Means shit is going down.

I think if u have a second child in China that is a girl they should just throw it in a river.
O wait.

[Goremancer]

Not fucking good enough my dear. Reproduction is still a fucking huge problem. Now that so many ppl are getting cars. IDK what's gonna happen now. If only the role veteran existed irl and everyone goes alert that would solve some problems.

[Jim]

Not fucking good enough my dear. Reproduction is still a fucking huge problem. Now that so many ppl are getting cars. IDK what's gonna happen now. If only the role veteran existed irl and everyone goes alert that would solve some problems.

Alright i found the solution.
THE ALL NEW NISSAN LEAF 100% ELECTRIC.
Asians don't mind driving little as cars, because its electric it has no emissions, and they could make some way that the Asians create the energy with their turbines they push themselves.
O wait they are poor also.
Ya we are screwed.

[Goremancer]

EVEN IF CARS AREN'T A PROBLEM WE'RE STILL SCREWED FROM OTHER STUFF THAT IS DUE TO OVERPOPULATION. GUN ALL THE BITCHES DOWN. AFTER INDIA AND CHINA, MOVE DOWN THE LIST THAT ALSO HAS A HIGH POPULATION. AFTER WE TAKE OUT THE TOP 15 WE MOVE ON TO THE US. GOOD GOOD GOOD.

[Jim]

EVEN IF CARS AREN'T A PROBLEM WE'RE STILL SCREWED FROM OTHER STUFF THAT IS DUE TO OVERPOPULATION. GUN ALL THE BITCHES DOWN. AFTER INDIA AND CHINA, MOVE DOWN THE LIST THAT ALSO HAS A HIGH POPULATION. AFTER WE TAKE OUT THE TOP 15 WE MOVE ON TO THE US. GOOD GOOD GOOD.

Out of the top 20, i say nobody would miss # 1,2,4,6,8,9,13-19.

[Goremancer]

Death is the answer. What are you smoking my child? Even if we were to colonize another planet, we will trash that too and end up with the same problem.

[Goremancer]

MUSKATNUSS

[Jim]

We can invade other planets until we run out of planets. If E.Ts can do it then why can't humans? Humans are the superior race. ALL SHALL BOW DOWN TO HIT-i mean to humans.

Edit: On a second thought, this won't matter when the Apocalypse comes. (Unless the prophecy comes true when Chuck Norris stops it with his legendary roundhouse kicks.)

Obviously you must be smoking something to dare question the great MintBerry Crunch, everyone knows that night coldness in space is so large even the Amish cant make a heater good enough to keep us warm.
Also if Air conditioners break at 110 degrees what will happen at moon temps of 770? Exactly u haven't thought your ideas out very well yet.

[DramaLlama]

This thread is so racist







http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/048/957/megusta.jpg

[Apocist]

Was it is a good thing to "kill a few" to "save many"?

Also,

Was it is a good thing to "conduct (a complete and successful) genocide" to "guarantee (totally confirmed) peace"?

genocide wasnt commited anywhere as of yet(As far as I know). The closest thing was the hollocaust by the nazi

[Nick]

genocide wasnt commited anywhere as of yet(As far as I know). The closest thing was the hollocaust by the nazi

What the Nazis did require more logistics and organization because the Jews were dispersed within the population. Hunting them down, checking their identities then sending them to camps certainly show a clear intention for genocide. I heard the same thing happened with the Armenians under the Turks.

Different races/clans/culture do not mix in the olden days. They normally remain in designated cities/regions/empires. Any war where the non-combatants are executed (instead of being enslaved) are considered genocide. I can give you a long list of war genocides. Though these are normally limited to the warzone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history

[Crimson]

Japanese can't see up very well because of their squinty eyes. How do I know this? HIROSHIMA & NAGASAKI!

The Japanese are like Zerg before they get t2 units. Attack from above and it's gg.

The U.S. army is like the Terran Dominion cuz they are OP and the leadership always be nerfin' them.

Here's a video of some squinty eyed japs getting owned:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB-atl3YBSQ

U MAD BRO? :p

Idc if you are trolling or not, but you just don't joke about that kind of shit, man.

[CmG]

^ ever heard of the romans, greeks or the celts?

[Nick]

^ ever heard of the romans, greeks or the celts?

Genocides are used because they are so effective. Subduing them and having a fragile peace treaty guarantee future headaches. Eliminate your enemies to the last man to ensure finality... until the next adversary appears. Just found out that my wikipedia link is not comprehensive.

On the other hand we have also purges based on culture and religion.

[Goremancer]

Strangely enough I find myself agreeing with Nick. lol I think there is something wrong with me.

[Nick]

Strangely enough I find myself agreeing with Nick. lol I think there is something wrong with me.

Hey, I also agree with you that Earth is overpopulated. As for the depopulation methods...

Mine is just warfare strategies. Of course you agree. What you should disagree with is war, and hope that your enemies have the same opinion.

[CmG]

Oh how i like the Space Marines from Warhammer40k. They do it right! What there is a cultist on an 80 billion people planet.fast call the inquisition. 3 Months later... PURGE THE UNCLEAN EXTERMINATUS! BOOM BOOM BOOM :D

[Nick]

Oh how i like the Space Marines from Warhammer40k. They do it right! What there is a cultist on an 80 billion people planet.fast call the inquisition. 3 Months later... PURGE THE UNCLEAN EXTERMINATUS! BOOM BOOM BOOM :D

Ideological and religious indoctrination. Best way is to prevent it from setting foot. Weed them out before the spread among the ignorant and gullible population. But more often than not, the negative indoctrination had become too deeply rooted in a given society/population. Easy, sure and fast way out is what you said. Purge them all. Difficult, risky and time-consuming way are counter propaganda and reeducation. Caveat is you need some sort of control over the said society/population before you can do that.

I hate this world. At least we are mortals. With short live spans.

[ahnkala]

Never good to kill people... question is, was it necessary to drop two?

[Ash]

@Crimson Sorry for rippin' on the Terran and Zerg brah. I'm a toss I can't help it. Glad you like the racial slurs though.

As for overpopulation, I heard that scientists invented little rubber socks that fit on your e-peen during sex. I think they are used to prevent nerf herding, but I could be wrong.

p.s. Warhammer 40K is for Brittish faggots.

YOU'RE A TOSS?
OMG
NO WAI
WHAT PLANET ARE YOU FROM

EVERYONE HERE IS A TERRAN (Hence Earth means Terra, so we're all Terrans) SO IF YOU'RE A PROTOSS, YOU'RE NOT FROM EARTH..

[Nick]

Never good to kill people... question is, was it necessary to drop two?

US planned to drop more until the Japanese surrenders. Only managed to drop two before they surrendered.

Germans surrendered earlier.

[Goremancer]

░░░░░▄▄▄▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄▄▄▄▄▄░░░░░░░
░░░░░█░░░░▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒░░▀▀▄░░░░
░░░░█░░░▒▒▒▒▒▒░░░░░░░░▒▒▒░░█░░░
░░░█░░░░░░▄██▀▄▄░░░░░▄▄▄░░░░█░░
░▄▀▒▄▄▄▒░█▀▀▀▀▄▄█░░░██▄▄█░░░░█░
█░▒█▒▄░▀▄▄▄▀░░░░░░░░█░░░▒▒▒▒▒░█
█░▒█░█▀▄▄░░░░░█▀░░░░▀▄░░▄▀▀▀▄▒█
░█░▀▄░█▄░█▀▄▄░▀░▀▀░▄▄▀░░░░█░░█░
░░█░░░▀▄▀█▄▄░█▀▀▀▄▄▄▄▀▀█▀██░█░░
░░░█░░░░██░░▀█▄▄▄█▄▄█▄████░█░░░
░░░░█░░░░▀▀▄░█░░░█░█▀██████░█░░
░░░░░▀▄░░░░░▀▀▄▄▄█▄█▄█▄█▄▀░░█░░
░░░░░░░▀▄▄░▒▒▒▒░░░░░░░░░░▒░░░█░
░░░░░░░░░░▀▀▄▄░▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒░░░░█░
░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▀▄▄▄▄▄░░░░░░░░█░░


The cult of trolluminati disagrees

[skillah]

Not going into any details/lengthy discussion at all - I think it's always wrong to kill innocent people, but given that the US wanted to end the war ASAP and to avoid the 'homeland invasion', using nuclear bombs was probably the best method.
In fact, if the Americans were to 'invade' Japan homeland, I'm sure the Japanese losses would be much higher, given that the majority Japanese were ridiculously loyal to the Emperor of Japan (天皇). They would never give up resisting unless the Emperor told them to do so. Civilians would ptobably launch kamikaze attacks or end up cutting their stomachs because of their 'samurai spirits'.

[Goremancer]

Goremancer, suck my cox n dix.

Heil Trollzor!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5TnUB3wfm0


HOLY SHIT WTF THERE'S NOTHING THERE. WOW!

[Goremancer]

Yeah youtube disabled imbedding, but thanks for the blowjob fagboy! U MAD BRO?

I was referring to what is between your legs not the video :/

[Necrolord]

Albert Einstein was so regretful that his research was used for this kind of destruction. Nukes are kinda like a paralytic agent of public policy because of Mutually Assured Destruction. North Korea is a great example of this.

It is the worst country on Earth to live in. They still run concentration camps where they try to starve people to death, and there have been tales of people only finding pieces of corn in dung piles as food. There does exist free healthcare, but that's not entirely true: there's ONE ambulance for all of Pyongyang, and it often runs out of petrol and only the "wealthy" can afford it, so most people hobble to the hospital. Services are paid for with cigarettes and alcohol. Since most people can't afford to even do that, they just go to natural health food stores, in the hope that herbs and shit will heal them. There is no concept of anaesthetic in medical treatment there...I'll let you imagine for yourselves. Anesthesia and morphine are frequently sold on the black market by the medical staff themselves. Also, North Korea has a military-FIRST policy when it comes to food, healthcare, and everything.

Basically, the country's situation is probably worse than what living in Nazi Germany was like, so there's no question that military action is the only solution. But there's the problem of nukes.

If Syria had nukes, they'd probably nuke Homs. That's the opposition stronghold.

[DramaLlama]

We are anonymous

We are legion

We do not forget

We do not forgive

Expect us.

[Nick]

Albert Einstein was so regretful that his research was used for this kind of destruction. Nukes are kinda like a paralytic agent of public policy because of Mutually Assured Destruction. North Korea is a great example of this.

...

Basically, the country's situation is probably worse than what living in Nazi Germany was like, so there's no question that military action is the only solution. But there's the problem of nukes.

I could not get you. What is your stand on North Korea exactly? What public policy are you referring to? Invade and overthrow the regime? Don't forget the patron China. Even without nukes, who is willing to pay the cost for invasion and rebuilding? No oil in North Korea. South Korea do not have the ability absorb North Korea immediately.



If Syria had nukes, they'd probably nuke Homs. That's the opposition stronghold.

You don't understand how nuke works do you? Radiation. Never nuke your vicinity.

If he wanted to wipe of Homs, conventional bombing will do. If he can't get enough support from the military to raze Homs with conventional bombing, what do you think will happen after he nuked Homs?

[CmG]

Living in Nazi germany wasn't worse then living in the republic of weimar lol. Dumb argument. I think living in Poland and France was worse when WW2 was around :)

[Nick]

It is the worst country on Earth to live in. They still run concentration camps where they try to starve people to death, and there have been tales of people only finding pieces of corn in dung piles as food. There does exist free healthcare, but that's not entirely true: there's ONE ambulance for all of Pyongyang, and it often runs out of petrol and only the "wealthy" can afford it, so most people hobble to the hospital. Services are paid for with cigarettes and alcohol. Since most people can't afford to even do that, they just go to natural health food stores, in the hope that herbs and shit will heal them. There is no concept of anaesthetic in medical treatment there...I'll let you imagine for yourselves. Anesthesia and morphine are frequently sold on the black market by the medical staff themselves. Also, North Korea has a military-FIRST policy when it comes to food, healthcare, and everything.

Mostly due to economic sanctions. They only empower the regime while making the poor people suffer.

[Dust]

Stop hating the US. There are more evil actions that the US could have done had their intentions not been peaceful. Not many people realize this but the US could have taken over the world at that point in history; no other country had nukes. All it would have taken was for the US to call each nation's government with the threat of annihilation or joining the US.

Using nukes only twice to cut down the potential casualties and not using that advantage for world domination clears the US of evil intentions.

[Nambla Member69]

FUCK THE US!! VOTED NO!!!!! THE US ARE CORRUPT AND EVIL! ARCHANGEL DOES NOT APPROVE OF NUCLEAR WARFARE OR TERRORISM

[CmG]

No dust they could not. The Know how for the Nuclear missile was already sold to china at this point and russia. Thanks to a double traitor from Germany. China sold the technology to even more militaristic countries out of an interesting Asian mentality.

Sure lets declare war with every nation instead of being the World Police gaining a lot of friends. Riiiiiight.

[Nick]

Stop hating the US. There are more evil actions that the US could have done had their intentions not been peaceful. Not many people realize this but the US could have taken over the world at that point in history; no other country had nukes. All it would have taken was for the US to call each nation's government with the threat of annihilation or joining the US.
Are we hating the US? No. US is as evil as other powers great or small. Self interest comes first.



Using nukes only twice to cut down the potential casualties and not using that advantage for world domination clears the US of evil intentions.
Be reminded that the third will be dropped if they surrendered a few days too late. The fourth and the fifth bomb too in a month or two.

[Nick]

No dust they could not. The Know how for the Nuclear missile was already sold to china at this point and russia. Thanks to a double traitor from Germany. China sold the technology to even more militaristic countries out of an interesting Asian mentality.

Sure lets declare war with every nation instead of being the World Police gaining a lot of friends. Riiiiiight.
At the end of the day, it's still about influence and control of resources.

[DramaLlama]

Fucking wrong thread.
Ignore this post!

[Ash]

Fucking wrong thread.
Ignore this post!

Why don't you delete the post?

[DramaLlama]

FINE.
I JUST WANTED TO POST OK?




fucking attention whores

[CmG]

At the end of the day, it's still about influence and control of resources.

And the lets be friends, approach works always better then the supression approach. Or beat em up then help them up again. At the end of the day its all about the wellbeing of yourself.