S-FM Bisected Souls (10-20P)

[Auwt]

Bisected Souls


ROLE LIST 7-3


Corrupted Soul
Corrupted Soul
Corrupted Soul
Soul
Soul
Soul
Soul
Soul
Soul
Soul






Soul : You are a regular soul.
You have no special power apart from your right to vote.
You may share this role with your soulmate you signed up with.
If you are playing with a soulmate, at each beginning of a new day, you have to rotate/change your place with your other soulmate.
During night time, you must give a token to a player of your choice.
Upon your death, while not an obligation, you can give half of your tokens to a player of your choice.

Ascended Soul : You have split up from your soulmate, therefore you both became Ascended Souls.
Your number of token will be set to 0.
You cannot earn tokens anymore, nor give them.
You will both be announced as Ascended Souls and will both be able to vote.
You cannot OGC with your soulmate anymore.




Corrupted Soul : You are a corrupted soul.
You have no special power apart from your right to vote.
You may share this role with your soulmate you signed up with.
If you are playing with a soulmate, at each beginning of a new day, you have to rotate/change your place with your other soulmate.
You receive double the amount of tokens you are supposed to earn from the Souls, and normal amount from the Corrupted side.
During night time, you must give a token to a player of your choice.
No factional kill.
You have a night chat with all the members of the Corrupted side.
Upon your death, while not an obligation, you can give half of your tokens to a player of your choice.


Ascended Corrupted Soul : You have split up from your soulmate, therefore you both became Ascended Souls.
You still can earn tokens and would receive double the amount you are supposed to get.
You will both be announced as Ascended Souls and will both be able to vote.
You cannot OGC with your soulmate anymore (out of the night chat).
You have a night chat with all the members of the Corrupted side.
Upon your death, while not an obligation, you can give half of your tokens to a player of your choice.




How many players?

Total of 10 roles.
Up to 2 persons per slot/role.

Max possible (full-house) : 20P
Min possible : 10P


The Shop





Item
Price
Description


Power:
Glue
2
tokens
Cancel the buy of any items the player of your choice would do, for the duration of this night and the following one.


Power:
Health
2
tokens
Become invulnerable for the duration of this night.


Power:
Luck
2
tokens
Earn an amount of token, RNG'd by the host (range from 0 to 4).


Power:
Destruction
5
tokens
Kill a soul.


Power:
Ascension
6 tokens
Ascend with your soulmate, breaking up into two Ascended Souls, or setting your vote count to 2, if you do not have a soulmate.




*You cannot buy twice the same item.
*You can only buy one item a night.
*Those are only one-time use items.
*The items will be used the night you bought them.
*You do not have to use all your tokens at once, and it can be saved over for a future shop.
*All of the Powers:Glue happen at the same time.
*All of the Powers:Destruction happen at the same time.

OoO

Glue > Luck/Health > Destruction > Ascension




MECHANICS :

Days last 48H, Nights last 24H.
Voting system is Plurality+Majority.
In case of a vote tie, coinflip.
Skip votes and suicides are not allowed.
Death notes and last wills are allowed.
No death descriptions.


At each beginning of a day phase (apart from D1), if you signed with a soulmate, then swap with them (one account can post the other cannot, in a rotation).

A shop will be open during each night phase.
Each player has to give a token to another player, each night (but they don't lose it from their savings)
The tokens are given at the end of the night and can be used at the start of the following night.

Any amount of token passed from a player to another will be rounded down.

Ascending as a soul will :
A) Split your slot into two new slots from the same faction. (if you play with a soulmate)
B) Set your vote count to 2. (if you play without a soulmate)


WIN CONDITIONS

The Souls : Eliminate all of the members of the Corrupted Side.

The Corrupted Side : Eliminate all of The Souls or reach a state where they can't win anymore.


RULES

*Out of game communication is allowed, but only with your soulmate.
Anonymous accounts are allowed, as long as you respect the swapping each day.

General FM rules apply to this setup.
General Forum Mafia Rules (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/42151-Forum-Mafia-Rules), by FM staff.
No personal attacks.

[Stealthbomber16]

Can you double the amount of tokens for each token instance to avoid decimals? No reason why people should receive .5 tokens instead of just... 1 token.

[Auwt]

Can you double the amount of tokens for each token instance to avoid decimals? No reason why people should receive .5 tokens instead of just... 1 token.

Yeah, thanks.
Makes more sense that way indeed !

[Oberon]

Can you double the amount of tokens for each token instance to avoid decimals? No reason why people should receive .5 tokens instead of just... 1 token.
But floating point arithmetic is fun

[Lumi]

Earn an amount of token, RNG'd by the host (range from 0 to 8).

8)


If you are a solo-player and don't share your slot with someone, when you ascend, do you just become 1 player with 2 votes?

[Stealthbomber16]

Can soulmates communicate with eachother outside of the game

[Auwt]

8)


If you are a solo-player and don't share your slot with someone, when you ascend, do you just become 1 player with 2 votes?

Seems to be fair.
Otherwhise a solo-slot would just have several disadvantages compared to a duo-slot.
Going to add this.
Thanks 8) !


Can soulmates communicate with eachother outside of the game

Soulmates could, but only pre-ascension.
Going to add this too.
Thanks !

[Stealthbomber16]

I'm playing with efe when we run this by the way

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Do soulmates just post on different accounts, or are anonymous accounts (or even non-anonymous FM accounts) used?

Players start with 0 tokens, right? Aren't prices really high considering this?


Very interesting btw

[WrathCyber]

Auwt you've got the best setups, don't let us down on your next one!

[Auwt]

Do soulmates just post on different accounts, or are anonymous accounts (or even non-anonymous FM accounts) used?

Players start with 0 tokens, right? Aren't prices really high considering this?


Very interesting btw

I did not intend to use shared account for the soulmates.
Was more thinking of Player A / Player B would play with their very own accounts but only one each day can post, the other would post the following day, ect...

Yep, Players would start with 0 token.
When designing the shop, I've expected prices to be a bit high so that the concept of FM is a bit more present compared to what the shop could be providing.
Now I could indeed lower the prices a bit.

A soul would currently need 10 tokens to ascend, considering potential lynches+lost soul kills, it might be hard to reach them, good point.

Thanks !


Auwt you've got the best setups, don't let us down on your next one!

Will try my best :D
Thanks !

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Auwt you've got the best setups, don't let us down on your next one!

As a totally not biased mod, I agree :P

~~

It would be a bit unfair if a slot with only one player couldn't "ascend" because there would be noone to fill the other slot, by the way. I think that could be solved by making the ascended soul "mayor" with 2 votes in such a case and making it lose one vote if one of the two slots dies.

The Corrupted Souls may be a little underpowered, considering they have no power outside of their vote. Giving them more tokens, a discount on items or access to special items could be interesting.

[Auwt]

I've apparently forgotten to fix it in the ascended souls rolecards.
The Ascension (in-depth) has however already been added to the game mechanics :

If shared-soul -> Split into two from the same faction. (each player control one and can vote)
If solo-soul -> Set your vote count to 2.

In both gameplans they would have a total vote count of 2.

I will try to dig it and find some sort of a compromise to help the corrupted side.

EDIT :

Corrupted Soul:

You are a corrupted soul.
You have no special power apart from your right to vote.
You may share this role with your soulmate you signed up with.
If you are playing with a soulmate, at each beginning of a new day, you have to rotate/change your place with your other soulmate.
You receive double the amount of tokens you are supposed to earn.

During night time, you must give a token to a player of your choice.
No factional kill.
You have a night chat with all the members of the Corrupted side.


Ascended Soul:

You have split up from your soulmate, therefore you both became Ascended Souls.
You still can earn tokens and would receive double the amount you are supposed to get.
You will both be announced as Ascended Souls and will both be able to vote.
You cannot OGC with your soulmate anymore.

[Lumi]

So I wrote some code to simulate 100,000 games of this setup without the ability to spend tokens - to try to see how many tokens players will get to spend anyway.

Lynches and token distributions were given randomly, except corrupted souls always gave their token to their teammate when they could, and the lost soul always gave its token to whoever it was about to kill (so as to throw away their token).

Here were the results for how many tokens players received on average:

Player 0 is lost soul, Players 1+2 are corrupted

Player 0 has received: 2.006 tokens on average
Player 1 has received: 7.607 tokens on average
Player 2 has received: 7.601 tokens on average
Player 3 has received: 1.802 tokens on average
Player 4 has received: 1.792 tokens on average
Player 5 has received: 1.801 tokens on average
Player 6 has received: 1.802 tokens on average
Player 7 has received: 1.802 tokens on average
Player 8 has received: 1.791 tokens on average
Player 9 has received: 1.804 tokens on average

When tokens are just given randomly, on average players will never even get enough tokens to buy a single item.

But more relevant would be to look at the histogram to see how often players reach certain thresholds. Histogram 0 is for the lost soul, 1 is for the corrupted souls, 2 is for regular souls:


Histogram 0
0 : 21.249%
1 : 20.621%
2 : 22.781%
3 : 17.798%
4 : 10.316%
5 : 4.865%
6 : 1.691%
7 : 0.523%
8 : 0.115%
9 : 0.037%
10 : 0.003%
11 : 0.001%
Histogram 1
0 : 11.355%
2 : 11.550%
4 : 15.092%
6 : 14.747%
8 : 13.367%
10 : 10.429%
12 : 7.315%
14 : 4.907%
16 : 3.401%
18 : 2.568%
20 : 1.825%
22 : 1.360%
24 : 0.919%
26 : 0.561%
28 : 0.331%
30 : 0.166%
32 : 0.068%
34 : 0.030%
36 : 0.009%
38 : 0.004%
40 : 0.001%
Histogram 2
0 : 27.783%
1 : 24.142%
2 : 19.628%
3 : 13.005%
4 : 7.446%
5 : 3.988%
6 : 2.036%
7 : 1.056%
8 : 0.515%
9 : 0.239%
10 : 0.099%
11 : 0.041%
12 : 0.014%
13 : 0.005%
14 : 0.001%
15 : 0.001%
16 : 0.000%
18 : 0.000%

Most relevant is looking at Histogram 2 - regular players very rarely get more than even 3 tokens to buy any of the more expensive items.

And because there are no protective roles, the players can't coordinate to pool all their tokens on one player - since then the Lost Soul can just kill that player.

Here's the code if anyone wants to mess around with the simulation:


import java.util.*;

public class Bisected {
public static void main(String[] args) throws Exception {
int[] cumTokens = new int[10];
int[][] histogram = new int[100][3];
int numGames = 100000;
for(int i=0; i<numGames; i++) {
int[] temp = simulateGame(false);
for(int j=0; j<temp.length; j++) {
cumTokens[j] += temp[j];
}
histogram[temp[0]][0]++;
histogram[temp[1]][1]++;
histogram[temp[2]][1]++;
for(int j=3; j<temp.length; j++) {
histogram[temp[j]][2]++;
}
}
for(int i=0; i<cumTokens.length; i++) {
//System.out.println("Player " + i + " has received: " + cumTokens[i] + " tokens.");
double average = ((double) cumTokens[i]) / numGames;
System.out.printf("Player %d has received: %.3f tokens on average\n", i, average);
}
for(int i=0; i<3; i++) {
System.out.println("Histogram " + i);
for(int j=0; j<histogram.length; j++) {
// System.out.printf("%d : %d\n", j, histogram[j][i]);
int divisor = 7;
if(i == 0) divisor = 1;
if(i == 1) divisor = 2;
double percent = 100 * ((double)histogram[j][i]) / (numGames * divisor);
if(histogram[j][i] > 0) System.out.printf("%d : %.3f%%\n", j, percent);
}
}
}

static int[] simulateGame(boolean verbose) {
boolean[] alive = new boolean[10];
Arrays.fill(alive, true);
int[] tokens = new int[10];
int numAlive = 10;

while(!isGameOver(alive)) {
// Day
int lynch = selectTarget(alive, -1, numAlive);
alive[lynch] = false;
if(verbose) System.out.println("Player " + lynch + " was lynched.");
numAlive--;

if(isGameOver(alive)) break;

// Night
// Corrupted - if other corrupted is alive, give tokens, else give randomly
if(alive[1] && alive[2]) {
tokens[1] += 2;
tokens[2] += 2;
if(verbose) System.out.println("Player 1 gives Player 2 (2 tokens)");
if(verbose) System.out.println("Player 2 gives Player 1 (2 tokens)");
}
for(int i=1; i<alive.length; i++) {
if(i > 2 || !alive[1] || !alive[2]) {
if(alive[i]) {
int target = selectTarget(alive, i, numAlive);
if(target == 1 || target == 2) {
tokens[target] += 2;
if(verbose) System.out.println("Player " + i + " gives Player " + target + " (2 tokens)");
} else {
tokens[target] += 1;
if(verbose) System.out.println("Player " + i + " gives Player " + target + " (1 token)");
}
}
}
}
// Lost soul kills
if(alive[0]) {
int target = selectTarget(alive, 0, numAlive);
alive[target] = false;
numAlive--;
if(verbose) System.out.println("Player " + target + " was found dead");
}
}

for(int i=0; i<tokens.length; i++) {
if(verbose) System.out.println("Player " + i + ": " + tokens[i]);
}

return tokens;
}

static int selectTarget(boolean[] alive, int self, int numAlive) {
int target;
if(self == -1) target = (int)(Math.random() * numAlive);
else target = (int)(Math.random() * (numAlive - 1)); // minus one because can't target self
for(int i=0; i<alive.length; i++) {
if(alive[i] && i != self) {
if(target == 0)
return i;
else
target--;
}
}
return -1;
}

static boolean isGameOver(boolean[] alive) {
int numLost = alive[0] ? 1 : 0;
int numCorrupted = (alive[1] ? 1 : 0) + (alive[2] ? 1 : 0);
int numRegular = 0;
for(int i=3; i<10; i++) {
if(alive[i]) numRegular++;
}
if(numCorrupted == 0 && numLost == 0) return true;
if(numRegular == 0 && numLost == 0) return true;
if(numRegular + numCorrupted <= 2) return true;
return false;
}
}

[Lumi]

Main takeaway from my previous post: The Lost Soul kills people too quickly for anyone to ever get a chance to ascend

[WrathCyber]

Very pog

[theoneceko]

POGGERS

[Auwt]

Well that's a nice job for sure, but all those studies are especially hypothetical.
It's not like everyone would just randomly give a token to someone else.

This random part would only work at the beginning of the game, when no one has posted yet.
As soon as there are posts, people will tend to believe certain players and the even-distribution will be biaised, tilting to trustful players.

Now of course I'm not sure if someone could ever reach the amount of tokens needed to ascend, but it doesn't look to be farfetched, nor too low-price.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

What do you think about allowing (but not forcing) players to give half of their tokens to someone of their choice upon death? That way, the Lost Soul can't just kill the towniest players to prevent any tokens from being given.

[OzyWho]

Life is simple.
Step1:
Notice there's a 3p
Step2:
Stealthbomber16

[Auwt]

What do you think about allowing (but not forcing) players to give half of their tokens to someone of their choice upon death? That way, the Lost Soul can't just kill the towniest players to prevent any tokens from being given.

That seems fair to make sure the shop is something useful.
I've added this :

"Upon your death, while not an obligation, you can give half of your tokens to a player of your choice."

To the Soul, Corrupted Soul, and Ascended Corrupted Soul.
I don't think such mechanic would be to be given to the Lost Soul.

[OzyWho]

There's role card missing for purple Ascended Soul.

Can the lost soul shop whilst killing someone?
Can you buy multiple things on same night?
Is Glue permanent?

Sorry if you answered already.


That seems fair to make sure the shop is something useful.
I've added this :

"Upon your death, while not an obligation, you can give half of your tokens to a player of your choice."
Would this action be announced?

[OzyWho]

Technically this is a lie: "*Out of game communication is allowed, but only between the soulmates."

[Stealthbomber16]

Can players use anonymous accounts?

[theoneceko]

Can players use anonymous accounts?

If an anonymous account plays this game, we'll all know it's Stealth.

x_x

[Auwt]

There's role card missing for purple Ascended Soul.

Can the lost soul shop whilst killing someone?
Can you buy multiple things on same night?
Is Glue permanent?

Sorry if you answered already.


Would this action be announced?

Lost Soul can still shop independantely from the night kill action, so they can buy and use item alongside their night action.

Added :

*You can only buy one item a night
"Only effective for the duration of this night"


Technically this is a lie: "*Out of game communication is allowed, but only between the soulmates."


Can players use anonymous accounts?

*Out of game communication is allowed, but only with your soulmate.

Anonymous accounts are allowed, as long as you respect the swapping each day.

[OzyWho]

About the OGC, I meant it's technically wrong because the red guys can OGC at night. :P

[Marshmallow Marshall]

About the OGC, I meant it's technically wrong because the red guys can OGC at night. :P

Technically, OGC is communication outside of host-approved channels. Since the scumchat is an host-approved channel, communication done in there is not OGC.

The Lost Soul can ascend, right? If so, the Ascended Lost Soul rolecard is missing.

Other than that, the setup looks pretty fun and ready to be approved soon

[OzyWho]

Technically, OGC is communication outside of host-approved channels. Since the scumchat is an host-approved channel, communication done in there is not OGC.

But.. but.. I often see in setup descriptions stuff like
OGC: Mafia Only

Your definition is for sure the less common one.

[Auwt]

Ascended Lost Soul : You have split up from your soulmate, therfore you both became Ascended Lost Souls.
Your number of token will be reset (to 0), but you can still receive tokens.
You will both be announced as Ascended Souls and will both be able to vote.
You cannot OGC with your soulmate anymore.
Only the soulmate that played D1 will be able to kill a player each night, the other will not be able to kill.
Upon your death, while not an obligation, you can give half of your tokens to a player of your choice.



Not sure how fine the role is though.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

But.. but.. I often see in setup descriptions stuff like
OGC: Mafia Only

Your definition is for sure the less common one.
It's ok, setup-makers have the right to be wrong. It doesn't make my definition any less good, though. Scum chats are game chats, random PMs are not. Speaking in scum chat is not out of game, PMing game members is. It's somewhat fair to call the game thread "game" by synechdoche, but my definition sticks to the first meaning! :)

Ascended Lost Soul : You have split up from your soulmate, therfore you both became Ascended Lost Souls.
Your number of token will be reset (to 0), but you can still receive tokens.
You will both be announced as Ascended Souls and will both be able to vote.
You cannot OGC with your soulmate anymore.
Only the soulmate that played D1 will be able to kill a player each night, the other will not be able to kill.
Upon your death, while not an obligation, you can give half of your tokens to a player of your choice.



Not sure how fine the role is though.
Is the non-killer soul be able to kill if his ex-soulmate dies?

The setup is missing an OoO.

[OzyWho]

OoO with no power roles, c'mon MM NotLikeThis

[Marshmallow Marshall]

OoO with no power roles, c'mon MM NotLikeThis

There are powers: the abilities from the shop. It could be important to know whether ascending happens before or after kills, for example.

[Auwt]

Will add a ooo sometime soon.

I'm also thinking of removing the Lost Soul (3rd P), to add another Corrupted Soul, making it a 7v3, probably more balanced.

[OzyWho]

Will add a ooo sometime soon.

I'm also thinking of removing the Lost Soul (3rd P), to add another Corrupted Soul, making it a 7v3, probably more balanced.
With no faction kill, 7v3 sounds fun.
I'd make the Mafia guys be Vengeful though - in order to make the [4 Town mislynches vs 3 Mafia lynches] win conditions be more consistent. Math is hard thanks to the soul splitting thingy. :laugh:

I wonder what's the maximum amount of game days theoretically speaking..
:Thinking:

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Making it straight up town vs mafia sounds like a good idea!


With no faction kill, 7v3 sounds fun.
I'd make the Mafia guys be Vengeful though - in order to make the [4 Town mislynches vs 3 Mafia lynches] win conditions be more consistent. Math is hard thanks to the soul splitting thingy. :laugh:

I wonder what's the maximum amount of game days theoretically speaking..
:Thinking:

Vengeful mafia are hellspawns. They punish town for being right. Instead, I'd give them a permanent chat in a 7v3 setup without factional kills. Along with the scum bonus to tokens, this makes the game interesting and shouldn't be town-favored. Those are merely suggestions from someone who'd like to play the game, though.

[OzyWho]

Assuming that Destruction evens out Ascension, in terms of prolonging or shortening the game.
-Without something like Vengeful, in a scenario where Town lynched Mafias first 2 days; Mafia would require 6 mislynches in order to win.
-- this is not achievable because in so many game days, town can just game the setup and ascend slots and then lynch 1 of them. (perhaps this setup gaming is possible even with Vengeful, and only faction kills can prevent it)

Ignoring the possible setup gaming and the few lynches vs a lot mislynches imbalance in win conditions - there's also the matter of no reasonable game of FM should ever last that long. D5 or D6 is the sweet spot that games should last imho, D7 if stretch it and enough active players.

[OzyWho]

town can just game the setup and ascend slots and then lynch 1 of them. (perhaps this setup gaming is possible even with Vengeful, and only faction kills can prevent it)
Alternatively, Ascended slots could be made Lovers. This would make the previously mentioned setup gaming impossible and it would bring game length down to a reasonable level. There would still be the possible [few lynches vs a lot mislynches] imbalance, but it's game. :wondering:

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Assuming that Destruction evens out Ascension, in terms of prolonging or shortening the game.
-Without something like Vengeful, in a scenario where Town lynched Mafias first 2 days; Mafia would require 6 mislynches in order to win.
-- this is not achievable because in so many game days, town can just game the setup and ascend slots and then lynch 1 of them. (perhaps this setup gaming is possible even with Vengeful, and only faction kills can prevent it)

Ignoring the possible setup gaming and the few lynches vs a lot mislynches imbalance in win conditions - there's also the matter of no reasonable game of FM should ever last that long. D5 or D6 is the sweet spot that games should last imho, D7 if stretch it and enough active players.

I don't think many people will be ascending, though. It takes a lot of tokens to do so. Also, majority lynch is enabled, so days are probably not going to last that long ;)

[Auwt]

Recent changes :

- Lost Soul & Ascended Lost Soul (3rd party) removed.
- Another Corrupted Soul added (total of 3).

- Power:Glue also prevents a player from buying anything the following night.

- Prices have been slightly reduced :
(-1) Luck
(-1) Ascension

- OoO : Glue > Luck/Health > Destruction > Ascension

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Win conditions still mention the Lost Soul. Also, shouldn't the scum win when they control 50 % of the vote, instead of having to eliminate all townies?

[Auwt]

Yup seems like I missed the win conditions point.
Fixed !

Also changed the Glue power to be effective the night it is used and not the following one.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Approved. Do you want to be added to the Queue right now? I'd add it to the main one instead of the mini one, since the amount of players would be higher than 10 in an ideal world.

[Auwt]

Yeah sure, please.

[Light_Yagami]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NPBIwQyPWE

[Light_Yagami]

Like This Set Up Is A Bit Complicated.. Sounds Interesting.. I Just Dont Know How I Would Play This.. Not Gunna Lie..

[Auwt]

Recent changes :


Balance :

Roles

AS : Your number of token will be set to 0. (Removed)

CS : You receive double the amount of tokens you are supposed to earn from the Souls, and normal amount from the Corrupted side.

Shop

All in all I believe the Power:Glue should be a little bit more used if changed back like that.

Power:Glue : Cancel the buy of any items the player of your choice would do, for the duration of this night and the following one.

*All of the Powers:Glue happen at the same time.
*All of the Powers:Destruction happen at the same time.


Mechanics :

Any amount of token passed from a player to another will be rounded down.

[OzyWho]

Presumably to get to F3, on average(since destruction and ascension cancel each other out in term of prolonging game) it takes 2 lynches and 5 mislynches - with almost every time at least 1 slot being confirmed by ascension and lynch?
Rough for the wolves if it gets that far.
I'd predict they can't kill one of their own for town credit either, because I imagine Town would play around it by organizing whom to send tokens to just so a single player slot doesn't get a gun just for this scenario.
This not being experimental is unexpected. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Anyways, what I wanted to point out is I think the win condition of the corrupted should say wether it's a EoD or SoD effect - just because I can imagine them having 50% of votes at EoD but a towny having enough tokens for Destruction. Usually that'd mean the night is still happening, but not here, and I could see hosts choosing to go on either route in that niche scenario.

[Auwt]

Presumably to get to F3, on average(since destruction and ascension cancel each other out in term of prolonging game) it takes 2 lynches and 5 mislynches - with almost every time at least 1 slot being confirmed by ascension and lynch?
Rough for the wolves if it gets that far.
I'd predict they can't kill one of their own for town credit either, because I imagine Town would play around it by organizing whom to send tokens to just so a single player slot doesn't get a gun just for this scenario.
This not being experimental is unexpected. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Anyways, what I wanted to point out is I think the win condition of the corrupted should say wether it's a EoD or SoD effect - just because I can imagine them having 50% of votes at EoD but a towny having enough tokens for Destruction. Usually that'd mean the night is still happening, but not here, and I could see hosts choosing to go on either route in that niche scenario.

The Corrupted Side :
Control 51%+ of the total of votes at the beginning of a day

Solved, I guess.

[OzyWho]

Presumably to get to F3, on average(since destruction and ascension cancel each other out in term of prolonging game) it takes 2 lynches and 5 mislynches - with almost every time at least 1 slot being confirmed by ascension and lynch?
Rough for the wolves if it gets that far.

+ The fact that there's "observers" this game means that the average level of objectivity of Town is higher than usual.

Auwt
Marshmallow Marshall
I feel like it'd be cool if the wolves had a day chat for balance? I'm not sure just by how much is this setup more in town favor than a regular mountainous; a regular mountainous is heavily wolf sided and giving the wolves a permanent private chat of up to 6 players is no small thing probably ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Marshmallow Marshall]

+ The fact that there's "observers" this game means that the average level of objectivity of Town is higher than usual.

Auwt
Marshmallow Marshall
I feel like it'd be cool if the wolves had a day chat for balance? I'm not sure just by how much is this setup more in town favor than a regular mountainous; a regular mountainous is heavily wolf sided and giving the wolves a permanent private chat of up to 6 players is no small thing probably ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think wolves can be very strong with tokens here, since they get double the normal amount. I really prefer setups with permanent scum chats instead of night-only, but I'm not sure the change is great for balance here (alhough it probably wouldn't change too much in reality). It's definetly something to consider, at the very least for post-game setup editing once we've seen the balance firsthand, though.

[oliverz144]

Auwt
1. lets assume player a day-dies with 5 tokens. They go to player b upon death.
how many tokens will player b receive?
2. if a bad soul with 5 tokens ascends, how many tokens will the 2 "new" players have?
3. If we look at end of night, a player a decides to buy glue and uses it on player b. Player b had 2 tokens and was going to buy luck. Player a glued player b. Will player b just stay with 2 tokens and a non bought luck?
4. If player a has 1 token and receives a token in n1, will he be able to use this token the same night?

[Auwt]

@Auwt (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php?u=29012)
1. lets assume player a day-dies with 5 tokens. They go to player b upon death.
how many tokens will player b receive?

Any amount of token passed from a player to another will be rounded down. (in the Mechanics section)


2. if a bad soul with 5 tokens ascends, how many tokens will the 2 "new" players have?

Ascension costs 6 tokens, so let's suppose a 2-player-soul has 6 tokens and ascend :

They initially share the same bank.
So they will both go back to 0.


3. If we look at end of night, a player a decides to buy glue and uses it on player b. Player b had 2 tokens and was going to buy luck. Player a glued player b. Will player b just stay with 2 tokens and a non bought luck?

Yes exactly, Glue acts like a powerful roleblock in other words.
Player B would be roleblocked and would therefore stay with 2 tokens, as if nothing had happened.


4. If player a has 1 token and receives a token in n1, will he be able to use this token the same night?

Each player has to give a token to another player, each night (but they don't lose it from their savings)
The tokens are given at the end of the night and can be used at the start of the following night. (in the Mechanics section)

No, if for instance a Player A has 1 token and get 1 extra token because someone else gives it to them (AT THE END OF NIGHT 1), they would only be able to use this token at the start of N2. In other words, each player will have their N1 capped no matter what at 1 token.

[oliverz144]

1. Reply to 4.:
where does the 1 token come from?
was it just an unrealistic example?
2. If a scum bought e.g. Glue, and ascends the next night, will the 2 new souls be able to buy glue again? Does the shop reset?
3. If a scum player gets a token in the night he ascends, what is the token count of the two new scum souls next day?
4. Do 2 ascended scum souls share a bank account? If player a and player b once were 1 soul, and player b gets 2 token from 1 town soul, does only player b have access to those tokens?

[Auwt]

1. Reply to 4.:
where does the 1 token come from?
was it just an unrealistic example?

Unrealistic example.
Start is set at 0 token, for everyone.


2. If a scum bought e.g. Glue, and ascends the next night, will the 2 new souls be able to buy glue again? Does the shop reset?

Good question.
Yes, as they are considered new slots, their shops are reset.


3. If a scum player gets a token in the night he ascends, what is the token count of the two new scum souls next day?

Tokens are given at the end of the night as the last possible action (if it can be considered as an action? Even though it's un-gluable?)
Split into 2 and then rounded down.
So they would get 0 for each token received during this night.


4. Do 2 ascended scum souls share a bank account? If player a and player b once were 1 soul, and player b gets 2 token from 1 town soul, does only player b have access to those tokens?

Upon breaking apart into two different souls, each one of them would have their own bank.
The banks are obviously separated one from another.

[oliverz144]

Unrealistic example.
Start is set at 0 token, for everyone.



Good question.
Yes, as they are considered new slots, their shops are reset.



Tokens are given at the end of the night as the last possible action (if it can be considered as an action? Even though it's un-gluable?)
Split into 2 and then rounded down.
So they would get 0 for each token received during this night.



Upon breaking apart into two different souls, each one of them would have their own bank.
The banks are obviously separated one from another.

Yet another question
Scum soul has 9 tokens.
They ascend
Whats their new bank balance?
Yes u somehow already answered that, but i need to know for sure

[Auwt]

Yet another question
Scum soul has 9 tokens.
They ascend
Whats their new bank balance?
Yes u somehow already answered that, but i need to know for sure

9 - 6 (Ascension) = 3
Then split into 2, you get 1.5
Rounded down, each one of them would thereafter have 1 token.
(So they lost 1 token in the process).