Is celebrating the defeat of Trump a good thing?

[Voss]

Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy that orange man lost the election. However, it has been a divided election/country for a while now. The massive celebrations around the leftist parts of the country don't really seem to be in the spirit of healing the country.

Is this post too soon? Let the left celebrate for a little? Or is this toxic sore winner-ism?

[yzb25]

I think if we're serious about changing people's minds - or even just cooperating with people in a society - then it's clearly a terrible idea. That said, I wouldn't get uppity about it, especially when it's not such a big deal. The right hates us anyway. Half of them think we're slaughtering millions of babies a year and fighting for the abolition of nuclear families and free discourse. Being sore winners is probably near the bottom of their list of grievances lol.

[BananaCucho]

Fuck the feelings of the right, absolutely rub it in. They've been so fucking arrogant the last four years, its wonderful to serve them some of their own medicine. We've had to have their stupid ass policies shoved down our throats while the President did and said some of the most fucking divisive shit

Feels really good man.

[Renegade]

When the dog shits in the middle of the living room, you rub its nose in it.

RUB IT IN. BIGLEY.

There was no class when they won in 2016. I'll stoop IDGAF.

[Renegade]

27569

[Renegade]

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[Renegade]

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[Renegade]

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[Renegade]

This is just a small sampling. I've got a whole fucking all you can meme buffet where this came from.

[BananaCucho]

Renegade

Keep going I'm close

[oops_ur_dead]

Tbh I think the right is gonna boogeyman everyone else no matter what. Have you seen right-wing media? If they can't find any legitimate reason to criticize another viewpoint, they'll literally just make shit up.

The problem is with them and their media. Blaming anyone else for celebrating is a bit of a victim blaming attitude IMO, and absolves them of their guilt. Blame their media, not the actions of others.

And just from a personal standpoint, I personally don't give a fuck if they get mad and I think the ones deep enough to get upset over this kind of stuff are also too far removed from reality to be positively influenced by any other person taking the high ground. I literally do not give a shit about how upset they get, and they're free to cry about me saying that as well. I hope they do.

[theoneceko]

^^

UWU!!!!

[Oberon]

I love it when people post memes about ‘cope’ cuz it shows you just how bitter they are over the 2016 election =)

[Oberon]

The country can only heal if your preferred winner gets elected, so no.
But Ronald Reagan is dead
So it will never heal? :(

[oops_ur_dead]

I love it when people post memes about ‘cope’ cuz it shows you just how bitter they are over the 2016 election =)

It's pretty obvious how much this is getting to you. Just remember to breathe and not take it so seriously. In the end, whoever wins this election won't actually impact your life.

[theoneceko]

the lvevel of trolling... LMAO!!!

[Oberon]

It's pretty obvious how much this is getting to you. Just remember to breathe and not take it so seriously. In the end, whoever wins this election won't actually impact your life.
‘Won’t impact your life’
I mean, I don’t expect the US to change drastically over the next four years anyways.

[Exeter350]

Tbh I think the right is gonna boogeyman everyone else no matter what. Have you seen right-wing media? If they can't find any legitimate reason to criticize another viewpoint, they'll literally just make shit up.

The problem is with them and their media. Blaming anyone else for celebrating is a bit of a victim blaming attitude IMO, and absolves them of their guilt. Blame their media, not the actions of others.

And just from a personal standpoint, I personally don't give a fuck if they get mad and I think the ones deep enough to get upset over this kind of stuff are also too far removed from reality to be positively influenced by any other person taking the high ground. I literally do not give a shit about how upset they get, and they're free to cry about me saying that as well. I hope they do.

Didn’t the Democrats go nuts and bashed people for celebrating Trump’s victory 4 years ago, claiming they’re idiots who ruined the country?

And didn’t they organise large-scale protests on the streets, despite the legitimate victory through the established democratic process? Which prompted comments like “Democrats only love democracy when it works for them”

I don’t think anybody can take the high ground here, and everybody should just stop shitting on the other side.
As if tensions aren’t high enough already.
There are bigger problems to focus on, like other superpowers, than picking fights with your neighbours.

[oops_ur_dead]

Don't think the Democrats bashed anyone for actually celebrating, to my memory. Bashed Trump and his supporters maybe, but not the celebrating part.

There was protest, yes. However the protest was against Trump's platform and rhetoric, and not against the democratic process. At least how I interpreted it. Nobody said that Trump got elected through fraud, though some did claim he got elected through a flawed electoral system (which wasn't a new idea either, and is still a valid concern despite Trump losing).

My point with the high ground comment is that it doesn't seem to matter. Media skew and agendas are such that right-wing media will find anything at all to criticize their opponents on if they want, and if they can't even do that they'll just make something up. Fucker Carlson said on air at some point in the past couple of days that Biden wants to get rid of corner coffee shops and make everyone drink Starbucks. The point is that if you take the high ground then they'll still find something to vilify you on. Maybe liberal media does the same but I don't really consume any liberal media so I wouldn't know.

And if you ask me personally, I just like drama and memes. Either way the results of the election weren't gonna affect me directly. Seeing Trump supporters freak out and sob on the streets is great.

[Oberon]

"Nobody said that Trump got elected through fraud"
People were literally claiming Russians interfered in the election to secure Donald Trump's election. As you would say, 'you're straight up wrong lmao'.

[BananaCucho]

"Nobody said that Trump got elected through fraud"
People were literally claiming Russians interfered in the election to secure Donald Trump's election. As you would say, 'you're straight up wrong lmao'.

Russia DID interfere with the 2016 election, confirmed by multiple US intelligence agencies. Through disinformation, hacking email servers, etc. They didn't hack the election, but denying that they actually interfered is IGNORANCE

You are IGNORANT Mag. You literally never know what you're talking about. Stick to washing dishes and when you educate yourself you can return to the discussion.

[Oberon]

lmfao ok

[oops_ur_dead]

"Nobody said that Trump got elected through fraud"
People were literally claiming Russians interfered in the election to secure Donald Trump's election. As you would say, 'you're straight up wrong lmao'.

Nobody ever claimed that Russia committed actual election fraud.

[Helz]

Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy that orange man lost the election. However, it has been a divided election/country for a while now. The massive celebrations around the leftist parts of the country don't really seem to be in the spirit of healing the country.

Is this post too soon? Let the left celebrate for a little? Or is this toxic sore winner-ism?

Its probably just more of a difference in culture. On the flip side the left also had people renouncing their citizenship, committing suicide and locking themselves in their house for weeks when Trump beat Hillary.

I think its all more than a bit dramatic but I dont particularity think its any sort of evil. The suicide memes are not very classy though.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

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27571

Rofl I can't help myself, I'm finding these funny anyway....

But the truth is that Voss brings a great point up. "A time to heal", y'all. I'm extremely happy Trump is out, don't get me wrong, and I believe it's 100 % fair that people are celebrating it hardcore in the streets (with masks and social distancing!!!). However, attacking Trumpists and Republicans in general, calling them dumb, etc. is the opposite of what the USA need right now. Biden understands that - according to his speech - which already is a great start for a new, better era for the USA and for the Western world (and probably the entire world by extension). Those who are happy that the one who has divided the country and the world for 4 years will be out of the White House soon should seek not to do the same thing, but to mend the divide between the "two Americas", just like their new president is so correctly preaching.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

And by the way, the "this doesn't affect your life so fuck off" rhetoric is truly annoying. Advocating for political apathy and blaming people for caring about others whether they are close to them or not is the opposite of what people in the world must do to cultivate prosperity (or more specifically, to cultivate freedom and decent life conditions for as many people as possible). And if you disagree, just let us waste our lives trying to create a better world, since "it won't affect your life anyway" :)

[oops_ur_dead]

And by the way, the "this doesn't affect your life so fuck off" rhetoric is truly annoying. Advocating for political apathy and blaming people for caring about others whether they are close to them or not is the opposite of what people in the world must do to cultivate prosperity (or more specifically, to cultivate freedom and decent life conditions for as many people as possible). And if you disagree, just let us waste our lives trying to create a better world, since "it won't affect your life anyway" :)

Oh I fully agree, in case you were talking about my post. I used that phrase because I've heard it so much in defence of Trump.

[Oberon]

The one good thing about Biden getting elected is peace of mind.
Now that the left finally has a President in power, they'll probably cut down on their absurd hysterical attacks on Western/American culture and people who disagree with them. Hopefully.

I am still concerned because our society has taken an increasingly authoritarian direction. 77% of conservatives in the United States are afraid of voicing their political opinions; compared to 52% of Democrats. In fact the only group where a majority aren't afraid to voice their opinions are hard liberals. Even moderates are afraid of stating their opinions to others.
With Biden in power I really do hope this rhetoric of hatred against the right and even moderates in general will stop; everyone suffers in a climate of hatred and mistrust. A healthy left and right are necessary in a democratic society to counterbalance things - and right now the left is extremely unreasonable (and has been, for quite some time), making up absurd claims such as that of white privilege and systemic racism, and harboring an extreme anti-capitalism that is very damaging and quite frankly authoritarian. This kind of shit has to stop. And no, I'm not talking about this or other threads like that; I'm talking about the reaction people have when you reveal yourself as even moderately Republican, or when you disagree with things that have come to be accepted as gospel. Threads like this one are completely irrelevant in this context as far as I'm concerned because there will always be people meme'ing.

I am hoping that this trend will at least come to a halt if not start being reversed during Biden's reign, if for no reason other than the fact that authoritarian attacks are no longer necessary. It really is quite damaging. Many people have lost their jobs for revealing they supported Donald Trump.

[Renegade]

>Trump most authoritarian president in modern history

>STOP THE AUTHORITARIANISM!

lmfaoo this is great

You can be a moderate republican, just make sure when Trump says obviously false things (small sample)
>covid just a flu
>inject disinfectant
>will just disappear
>inaguration crowd larger than obama (it wasn't I was there)
>anything he doesn't like is fake news

Literally thousands of lies; you can be a republican, but don't just fall in line and back that shit up. When you do, I call you out on it, including conservatives in my own loose circle of friends.

When Qanon dipshits start spouting their nonsense, it is the non-crazy part of society's responsibility to tell them to shut up.

Thanks!

[Exeter350]

Oberon

So keep your political leaning to yourself to avoid generalisation, then tackle discussions / issues on a stand-alone basis?

Seriously, am I the only one who thinks this whole political identity thing is the dumbest fucking thing ever?

As for people who lose their jobs over shit like this, you’d think given how seriously it is taken in the US, they’d have the sense to just keep their political leaning to themselves?
Or is this bad because people are “afraid to voice their opinions”?

If so, I truly commend such people for daring to voice their beliefs knowing they might lose their livelihood.
Especially since the culture there is to live paycheck by paycheck, i.e. getting fired is a death sentence.

Personally, I am not so dumb as to throw away my future for such a stupid reason, especially if I have a family to take care of & a long term life goal that I’m working towards.

Instead of saying “I am a Republican” or “I voted for Donald Trump”, just address the topic on hand, whether it’s economic policy, or racism, or whatever the fuck.
Seriously, stick to the topic at hand, your political leaning doesn’t mean shit, it isn’t relevant on its own.

Renren said he’ll call retards out for being retards, whether Republican or Democrats. I agree. A person’s political identity doesn’t mean shit. The topic on hand does.

Tl;dr - Tackle discussions / issues on a stand-alone basis. Political identity should be kept quiet for pragmatic reasons.
(Also because it’s a stupid f**king concept)

[Renegade]

The time to heal is Jan 20, 2021.

Until then, it is the time to mock loser Trump and his dimwitted supporters. The poor man's idea of a rich man: gaudy gold colored shit everywhere, fast food buffets, etc.

[Renegade]

https://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/trumpd.jpg

[Oberon]

@Oberon (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php?u=45595)

So keep your political leaning to yourself to avoid generalisation, then tackle discussions / issues on a stand-alone basis?

Seriously, am I the only one who thinks this whole political identity thing is the dumbest fucking thing ever?

As for people who lose their jobs over shit like this, you’d think given how seriously it is taken in the US, they’d have the sense to just keep their political leaning to themselves?
Or is this bad because people are “afraid to voice their opinions”?

If so, I truly commend such people for daring to voice their beliefs knowing they might lose their livelihood.
Especially since the culture there is to live paycheck by paycheck, i.e. getting fired is a death sentence.

Personally, I am not so dumb as to throw away my future for such a stupid reason, especially if I have a family to take care of & a long term life goal that I’m working towards.

Tl;dr - Tackle discussions / issues on a stand-alone basis. Political identity should be kept quiet for pragmatic reasons.
(Also because it’s a stupid f**king concept)
You realize where political intimidation takes people, right? That's the door to huge repressive measures and it is honestly astounding that something like is allowed to happen at all.

[Renegade]

There should be consequences for supporting an authoritarian, anti-truth, anti-science regime.

Actions have consequences.

[Oberon]

>Trump most authoritarian president in modern history

>STOP THE AUTHORITARIANISM!

lmfaoo this is great

You can be a moderate republican, just make sure when Trump says obviously false things (small sample)
>covid just a flu
>inject disinfectant
>will just disappear
>inaguration crowd larger than obama (it wasn't I was there)
>anything he doesn't like is fake news

Literally thousands of lies; you can be a republican, but don't just fall in line and back that shit up. When you do, I call you out on it, including conservatives in my own loose circle of friends.

When Qanon dipshits start spouting their nonsense, it is the non-crazy part of society's responsibility to tell them to shut up.

Thanks!

"Trump is the most authoritarian President in modern history"
You mean compared to Obama, who spied on Americans in the name of "counter-terrorism"?
You mean Trump, the President that was attacked by the Media or SOMEONE every single day that he was President? And didn't do anything about it? If he were anything as authoritarian as you suggest he'd've banned Twitter and Facebook long ago; he didn't even do that.
You mean Trump, the President who didn't preside over attacks on liberals?

I haven't actually seen anything authoritarian from Trump, only people saying he is. I find it quite funny when people claim things like that. It's really quite ironic that people are saying that and yet are completely free and not jailed for expressing their views, like they would be in say Russia. It really makes you wonder where people come up with this kind of stuff.

---Also---
'You can be a moderate republican'
No, you actually can't. Like I said 77% of Conservatives are afraid of expressing their political views.
As for the rest of your comments, the first three are debaable, the inaguration one is (probably) indeed false since that seems like one of the times he used hyperboles (something he does A LOT, probably due to his history as a businessman). Really the man was pulling shit out of his ass especially in 2015 when he was campaining for the Presidency, so yeah, he does lie a lot about certain things although with him his lies are obvious and never meant to be taken as facts - obviously nobody thinks he's being serious when he's saying things like 'I will build the wall so fast, your head will spin'. That's just businessman talk. Frankly I have no issue with it. In terms of lies I'd rather be hit with lies that are obvious lies rather than the kind of half-truths that the media likes to peddle.

[Oberon]

There should be consequences for supporting an authoritarian, anti-truth, anti-science regime.

Actions have consequences.
What the fuck are you talking about lmao, this is literally communist china shit

[Renegade]

If you have no issues with the most powerful man in the country and arguably the world spewing falsehoods because he aligns with you on some policy issues, then that says a lot more about you than it does me for bringing it up.

[Voss]

I won't close my own thread, but I'm requesting another admin to close this because it's off topic.

[Voss]

Thanks for derailing my thread y'all.

[Renegade]

It is perfectly on topic.

Yes - celebrating the loss of Trump is a good thing.

[Exeter350]

You realize where political intimidation takes people, right? That's the door to huge repressive measures and it is honestly astounding that something like is allowed to happen at all.

It happens in my country and I think it’s fine.

We have strict laws on race, religion & government criticism.
Penalty is imprisonment, hefty fines & lashes.

This invites a lot of criticism about freedom of speech, human rights & censorship.

But I think it’s fine.

Such inflammatory topics should be regulated to keep the peace.
There are avenues for people to voice out their opinions, but these are controlled too.

Rabble-rousing is a no-no.
The public has the responsibility to make their own informed decisions.
People are not allowed to constantly blare widespread political messages to try to manipulate others.
If the public is too lazy and apathetic to do their own research or lift a finger, that’s their problem.

Also protests are illegal here lol.
Which is fine too.

I think I feel this way because we have a competent government?
Under an incompetent / corrupt government, such authority can be easily abused.

But if you have an incompetent government you’re screwed either way lol, it doesn’t really matter whether if it’s authoritarian or democratic.
Under a shitty “democratic” leader, the laws can be subverted / ignored anyway.

[Oberon]

tbh idk if it's a good thing and idc if it is, I agree with helz on and this. the 'right' had its fair share of memes when Trump was elected, its only fair the left gets to meme as well

[FrostByte]

https://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/trumpd.jpg

What a pandering shit. He knows most of his voterbase lives off of this shit so he serves it in the white house.

Then he takes pictures holding a fucking bible upside down and the evangelical right goes nuts.

I don't understand how people didn't see everything he did and said through the lens of fucking pandering to win votes. He hasn't been genuine once since he got into office.

[FrostByte]

SOMEONE GET THAT MAN A FUCKING TAILOR WHAT THE FUCK ARE HIS SLEEVES SO FUCKING LONG FOR JESUS CHRIST HE LOOKS FRUMPY AS FUCK AS IT IS HOLY SHIT

[oops_ur_dead]

Have you ever made a single argument defending a conservative stance without it being some variant of "left bad too"? I'm just curious.

[Stealthbomber16]

The one good thing about Biden getting elected is peace of mind.
Now that the left finally has a President in power, they'll probably cut down on their absurd hysterical attacks on Western/American culture and people who disagree with them. Hopefully.

I am still concerned because our society has taken an increasingly authoritarian direction. 77% of conservatives in the United States are afraid of voicing their political opinions; compared to 52% of Democrats. In fact the only group where a majority aren't afraid to voice their opinions are hard liberals. Even moderates are afraid of stating their opinions to others.
With Biden in power I really do hope this rhetoric of hatred against the right and even moderates in general will stop; everyone suffers in a climate of hatred and mistrust. A healthy left and right are necessary in a democratic society to counterbalance things - and right now the left is extremely unreasonable (and has been, for quite some time), making up absurd claims such as that of white privilege and systemic racism, and harboring an extreme anti-capitalism that is very damaging and quite frankly authoritarian. This kind of shit has to stop. And no, I'm not talking about this or other threads like that; I'm talking about the reaction people have when you reveal yourself as even moderately Republican, or when you disagree with things that have come to be accepted as gospel. Threads like this one are completely irrelevant in this context as far as I'm concerned because there will always be people meme'ing.

I am hoping that this trend will at least come to a halt if not start being reversed during Biden's reign, if for no reason other than the fact that authoritarian attacks are no longer necessary. It really is quite damaging. Many people have lost their jobs for revealing they supported Donald Trump.

Biden isn't left. He's not even close. Biden is still right wing. He's just not as right wing as Trump.

I'm literally a massive sample of white privilege. I'm practically the strawman posterchild. I grew up in one of the most rapidly developing areas in the US. I'm an upper class straight white male. White privilege absolutely exists, I see it around me every day. I experience it myself sometimes unintentionally. But it's part of my (our) generation's job to see the injustices around us and change the status quo. I try and always make sure that I am open to other people's experiences. Very few people were lucky enough to live the life I've lead.

This isn't a thread about "hey this isn't a thing we as a society should do and we should try and get people to stop doing it", it's a "is this a healthy thing to do" discussion. Should we be throwing parties about Trump's loss? Even if we forget about covid, probably not. Still makes the US more divided than ever.

[Oberon]

Have you ever made a single argument defending a conservative stance without it being some variant of "left bad too"? I'm just curious.
this is not a case of 'left bad too' as you suggest. it's a case of 'the left has gone too far' and it absolutely has. you've gone WAY too far when you're starting to claim that half the country is racist just because, and when 77% of conservatives are AFRAID of voicing their opnions (even though they constitute about 50% of the population). I blame the radical left, not the entire left. there's still reasonable people on 'the left' (btw the left ranges from moderate liberals who just want welfare to socialists and communists on the really far end of the spectrum), like the people who published in the gender studies journals and jordan peterson (who is definitely left leaning if you listen to what he has to say).

virtually everyone in america agrees that political correctness is a thing, even leftists: about 80% of Americans agree political correctness is a problem. and political correctness is peddled by the left.

[Oberon]

Biden isn't left. He's not even close. Biden is still right wing. He's just not as right wing as Trump.

I'm literally a massive sample of white privilege. I'm practically the strawman posterchild. I grew up in one of the most rapidly developing areas in the US. I'm an upper class straight white male. White privilege absolutely exists, I see it around me every day. I experience it myself sometimes unintentionally. But it's part of my (our) generation's job to see the injustices around us and change the status quo. I try and always make sure that I am open to other people's experiences. Very few people were lucky enough to live the life I've lead.

This isn't a thread about "hey this isn't a thing we as a society should do and we should try and get people to stop doing it", it's a "is this a healthy thing to do" discussion. Should we be throwing parties about Trump's loss? Even if we forget about covid, probably not. Still makes the US more divided than ever.

Biden himself may not be left wing, although the people who would actually be running the country are very radical (Kamala Harris, AOC, etc). There is genuine cause for concern although this is much older than Biden, being a problem that is at least 4 years old.

Well, the thing you do when you have privilege is you work hard to ensure that you've earned it. I'm not saying people don't grow up with a certain degree of privilege or that whites don't tend to be more privileged than blacks. They are, on average. The problem is where you take the idea and when you take it to mean that whites are 'systematically' oppressing blacks to prevent their rise to the top.

Also, Will Smith is probably more privileged than we are.

[Stealthbomber16]

There should be consequences for supporting an authoritarian, anti-truth, anti-science regime.

Actions have consequences.

Fuck off. This is the worst post you've ever made.

As another person who voted for Biden, you don't seem to realize that the vast majority of Americans (accurately) understand that both of the candidates are fucking awful. If you genuinely think Joe "Poor kids can be just as smart as white kids" Biden is a good person please take another look at his record. He's awful. Kamala is worse. Trump is even worse.

[Stealthbomber16]

Biden himself may not be left wing, although the people who would actually be running the country are very radical (Kamala Harris, AOC, etc). There is genuine cause for concern although this is much older than Biden, being a problem that is at least 4 years old.

Well, the thing you do when you have privilege is you work hard to ensure that you've earned it. I'm not saying people don't grow up with a certain degree of privilege or that whites don't tend to be more privileged than blacks. They are, on average. The problem is where you take the idea and when you take it to mean that whites are 'systematically' oppressing blacks to prevent their rise to the top.

Also, Will Smith is probably more privileged than we are.

I absolutely did not have to work for my level of privilege. My parents make a lot of money and I got to reap the benefits. I don't have a comment on the systematic racism right now because I'm not that familiar with the topic.

Will Smith is definitely more privileged than we are but that's not at all based on racial topics IMO that's just based on his social/economic status.

[Voss]

Have you ever made a single argument defending a conservative stance without it being some variant of "left bad too"? I'm just curious.

it's okay that the right does ____ thing because leftists and their climate change hoax.

[Stealthbomber16]

this is not a case of 'left bad too' as you suggest. it's a case of 'the left has gone too far' and it absolutely has. you've gone WAY too far when you're starting to claim that half the country is racist just because, and when 77% of conservatives are AFRAID of voicing their opnions (even though they constitute about 50% of the population). I blame the radical left, not the entire left. there's still reasonable people on 'the left' (btw the left ranges from moderate liberals who just want welfare to socialists and communists on the really far end of the spectrum), like the people who published in the gender studies journals and jordan peterson (who is definitely left leaning if you listen to what he has to say).

virtually everyone in america agrees that political correctness is a thing, even leftists: about 80% of Americans agree political correctness is a problem. and political correctness is peddled by the left.

I think the issue that I have with this post is that you're strawmanning the entire left under people like the ones publishing gender studies journals, and radical feminists talking about how men are gonna ruin the world and we should send them into space. It's just as bad as people saying that every Trump supporter is racist. Which nobody should be doing if they're at all sane.

[Stealthbomber16]

To go back on topic, no. It's not a good thing. The country can't heal if we're throwing parties to celebrate presidential elections. That just drives up tension.

I agree with your point of view, Voss. I'll gladly be your echo chamber :)

[Renegade]

Fuck off. This is the worst post you've ever made.

As another person who voted for Biden, you don't seem to realize that the vast majority of Americans (accurately) understand that both of the candidates are fucking awful. If you genuinely think Joe "Poor kids can be just as smart as white kids" Biden is a good person please take another look at his record. He's awful. Kamala is worse. Trump is even worse.

Oh that is a low bar. I've made far worse posts. Give me a break.

[Renegade]

To go back on topic, no. It's not a good thing. The country can't heal if we're throwing parties to celebrate presidential elections. That just drives up tension.

I agree with your point of view, Voss. I'll gladly be your echo chamber :)

The country can't heal until Trump and his Trumpkins concede and stop protesting what was a legitimate election.

Reminds me of grade school. It is only fair if I win!

Healing is for Jan 20, 2021.

[Stealthbomber16]

Oh that is a low bar. I've made far worse posts. Give me a break.

Proposing to punish 60 million people because you don’t like their political views is a pretty fucking stupid post.

[yzb25]

It happens in my country and I think it’s fine.

We have strict laws on race, religion & government criticism.
Penalty is imprisonment, hefty fines & lashes.

This invites a lot of criticism about freedom of speech, human rights & censorship.

But I think it’s fine.

Such inflammatory topics should be regulated to keep the peace.
There are avenues for people to voice out their opinions, but these are controlled too.

Rabble-rousing is a no-no.
The public has the responsibility to make their own informed decisions.
People are not allowed to constantly blare widespread political messages to try to manipulate others.
If the public is too lazy and apathetic to do their own research or lift a finger, that’s their problem.

Also protests are illegal here lol.
Which is fine too.

I think I feel this way because we have a competent government?
Under an incompetent / corrupt government, such authority can be easily abused.

But if you have an incompetent government you’re screwed either way lol, it doesn’t really matter whether if it’s authoritarian or democratic.
Under a shitty “democratic” leader, the laws can be subverted / ignored anyway.

Feel free to ignore if it's too personal, but I'm really curious what country you live in. Your views are what we would understand to be "authoritarian", even if you understand your views to be fairly neutral. Is your viewpoint shared by many of the people you know? Or is your attitude on this anomalous amongst people you know?

I'm sorry I won't make another off-topic post after this one I just really have to ask lol.

[Renegade]

Proposing to punish 60 million people because you don’t like their political views is a pretty fucking stupid post.

That isn't what I was suggesting.

I was suggesting that Trumpkins stop bitching when their actions have consequences.

Call the cops on some black people because they are outside and lose your job? Not sorry.

Say racist shit on twitter and lose your job? Not sorry.

[Renegade]

This false equivalence of "my views and your views" being equal is total bullshit.

You don't entertain people who are delusional and hallucinating because "that is their view!".

Facts matter.

[Stealthbomber16]

The country can't heal until Trump and his Trumpkins concede and stop protesting what was a legitimate election.

Reminds me of grade school. It is only fair if I win!

Healing is for Jan 20, 2021.

There’s always gonna be people who are mad. People were mad that Hillary lost. People did legitimately claim Russia interfered with the election. They got over themselves.

[Renegade]

Everyone is titled to their own opinion - sure. But when your racist, homophobic, sexist opinions form into Trump backed policy that is where the line is drawn.

[Oberon]

Stealthbomber16 I actually really respect you for taking that stance

[Renegade]

There’s always gonna be people who are mad. People were mad that Hillary lost. People did legitimately claim Russia interfered with the election. They got over themselves.

Russia did legitimately interfere in the election. They didn't "hack" it as in change votes, but they interfered.

There was collusion. Don Jr had a meeting with Russian agents to get "dirt", nobody refutes that.

There are far more Trumpkins who are protesting the results of the election and calling it illegitimate than there were Hillary supporters in 2016. Again with the false equivalence bullshit. The magnitude of any of these topics is much fucking greater than any cherry picked example you can find for the left.

[Renegade]

"All politicians lie" "Trump and Biden both suck" "But her emails"

let's dispel with this fiction that these sort of statements are equivalent.

[DJarJar]

I think talk of "let's unite and stop attacking each other" is just going to make people on the right angrier. Because for many of them, the election has only been called by the media but is still very much possible for trump to win. And, to be fair, it's not actually decided until the electoral college meets in december. So it's probably better to just say nothing for now than to ask for peace. Because from the perspective of somebody who believes trump can still win, your message probably just seems condescending.

[Stealthbomber16]

Everyone is titled to their own opinion - sure. But when your racist, homophobic, sexist opinions form into Trump backed policy that is where the line is drawn.

Well yeah, racism/sexism/homophobia is unacceptable.

Lumping every Trump supporter into that category is not fair to them. My parents and a lot of my friends parents voted Trump. Some of these parents have gay children. Those children are welcome in their households with their significant other. It’s not homophobia there... it’s just they don’t give a shit because it’s not a problem to them.

[Stealthbomber16]

Stealthbomber16 I actually really respect you for taking that stance

I like to consider myself reasonable sometimes

[Stealthbomber16]

Russia did legitimately interfere in the election. They didn't "hack" it as in change votes, but they interfered.

There was collusion. Don Jr had a meeting with Russian agents to get "dirt", nobody refutes that.

There are far more Trumpkins who are protesting the results of the election and calling it illegitimate than there were Hillary supporters in 2016. Again with the false equivalence bullshit. The magnitude of any of these topics is much fucking greater than any cherry picked example you can find for the left.

Yeah I’m gonna stop this here because we must have very different outlooks on the 2016 election if you don’t think there was as much protesting after that one as there is now.

Clinton supporters were up in arms about “but muh popular vote” for a year. A lot of them called trump supporters as a whole sexist for not voting for a female candidate. You must not remember that if you think that this is way worse.

[Exeter350]

Your views are what we would understand to be "authoritarian", even if you understand your views to be fairly neutral.

I’m aware it’s authoritarian and I’m fine with it.

Again, it’s probably because they’ve done a good job so far.

I’m also aware of the advantages & disadvantages of authoritarian & democratic government styles, and I lean towards authoritarianism anyway.


Is your viewpoint shared by many of the people you know? Or is your attitude on this anomalous amongst people you know?

Most people my age don’t really care, or aren’t outspoken about it.

[yzb25]

I think talk of "let's unite and stop attacking each other" is just going to make people on the right angrier. Because for many of them, the election has only been called by the media but is still very much possible for trump to win. And, to be fair, it's not actually decided until the electoral college meets in december. So it's probably better to just say nothing for now than to ask for peace. Because from the perspective of somebody who believes trump can still win, your message probably just seems condescending.

That's a good take. It's kind of a lose-lose because not being arrogant about the win also comes with its own disadvantages in elections. It's just a shitty situation lol

[Oberon]

I think talk of "let's unite and stop attacking each other" is just going to make people on the right angrier. Because for many of them, the election has only been called by the media but is still very much possible for trump to win. And, to be fair, it's not actually decided until the electoral college meets in december. So it's probably better to just say nothing for now than to ask for peace. Because from the perspective of somebody who believes trump can still win, your message probably just seems condescending.
i don't think anyone genuinely wins trump can still win.. or rather, you can believe he'll still win but i dont think you can really say that its likely lol

[oops_ur_dead]

>Kween Kop Kamala
>radical left
>AOC
>running anything

I am legitimately recommending anti-psychotics at this point.

[Oberon]

>Kween Kop Kamala
>radical left
>AOC
>running anything

I am legitimately recommending anti-psychotics at this point.

I mean. I'm not sure what you're expecting me to say this because the only thing I can do is just return to sender and I have no interest in that. We can keep juggling that until the sun dies.
Maybe you should just try to be more open minded? Lol

[FrostByte]

Maybe you should just try to be more open minded? Lol

That is so fucking rich coming from you

lmfaoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooo

[BananaCucho]

That is so fucking rich coming from you

lmfaoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooo

He isn't self aware at all.

[MartinGG99]

Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy that orange man lost the election. However, it has been a divided election/country for a while now. The massive celebrations around the leftist parts of the country don't really seem to be in the spirit of healing the country.

Is this post too soon? Let the left celebrate for a little? Or is this toxic sore winner-ism?

I think this can be either "okay or good" or a "bad" case.

If you're celebrating because of another parties' defeat in an election then that's bad imo.

If you're celebrating because who you voted for won, then that's fine or good imo.

The reason being is because I am very much tired of hearing arguments on the internet which can be summed up as "strategic voting" (also called tactical voting); in other words, where you vote in order to prevent someone else from winning (or in other words promote a parties' defeat).

This sort of thinking can stem into arguments where the idea is "if you don't vote for X, then that must mean you ultimately support everything that the other side does".

Celebrating solely or mostly because of a parties' defeat, rather than the victory of whatever you voted for, is basically the same or quite similar line of argument or thought fmpov.

I believe those kinds of arguments aren't healthy for reasons I don't really have the words to explain and argue effectively at the moment, but in general I feel like those arguments are inclined to promote partisanism by virtue of aiding in the straw-manning of every single political party member or non-party supporter (i.e. anyone not supporting the party that you support).

There's also the third case, in which case you are celebrating because of Trump's defeat, rather than the republican parties' defeat. In which case I think that's fine or even good as having opinions on a specific individual because of their personage rather than their party is more indicative of having an independent mind (and therefore less prone to partisanism).


Yes, I am aware some parts of my post here can be applied to extreme examples such as the Nazi's (Who collectively committed genocide) in order to disprove it. But let's be honest here and recognize that many beliefs will have exceptions for the extreme as the reality is that there is never a completely strict and consistent guiding moral principle or law in the universe; many philosophers have tried to create or find a single unwavering moral principle but failed.

[oops_ur_dead]

I mean. I'm not sure what you're expecting me to say this because the only thing I can do is just return to sender and I have no interest in that. We can keep juggling that until the sun dies.
Maybe you should just try to be more open minded? Lol

I mean it's more that I've given up on arguing with you in earnest. Every single one of your posts is like listening to some talking head like Ben Shapiro, Tucker Carlson, or whoever the fuck, except even worse because half the time you don't even understand their original point that you're trying to regurgitate. Any attempts to discuss anything with you inadvertently lead to either 1) "left bad too" 2) deflections to completely unrelated points that somehow popped into your head because you have no idea how to respond to a given argument or 3) tone policing and random accusations of ad hom fallacies.

It's more fun and productive to just directly watch the latest Tucker Carlson video and yell at the screen than try to get the same information from you but half-digested.

[Helz]

Something that occurred to me. This comes down to very basic poor sportsmanship.

I remember when I was a little kid playing sports one of the things they really pushed against was being a soar looser and saying "The other side cheated". Reminds me of the popular pushes that "Its just because of the electoral college" and the current "It was fraud."

They would also teach us to be graceful winners. That reminds me of Republicans telling celebrity's who had posted they would leave the country if Trump won to get the fuck out last election and the general subject this thread is discussing for democrats this one.

Could this issue simply be a reflection of the erosion of our society?

Maybe the behavior is not the problem but rather a symptom of us failing to pass down basic courtesy on a generational level?

Or maybe this is just the impact of technology on us, where people are protected by the ability to communicate with some degree of anonymity?

[FrostByte]

I mean it's more that I've given up on arguing with you in earnest. Every single one of your posts is like listening to some talking head like Ben Shapiro, Tucker Carlson, or whoever the fuck, except even worse because half the time you don't even understand their original point that you're trying to regurgitate. Any attempts to discuss anything with you inadvertently lead to either 1) "left bad too" 2) deflections to completely unrelated points that somehow popped into your head because you have no idea how to respond to a given argument or 3) tone policing and random accusations of ad hom fallacies.

It's more fun and productive to just directly watch the latest Tucker Carlson video and yell at the screen than try to get the same information from you but half-digested.

27573

[oops_ur_dead]

I remember when I was a little kid playing sports one of the things they really pushed against was being a soar looser and saying "The other side cheated". Reminds me of the popular pushes that "Its just because of the electoral college" and the current "It was fraud."


I take a bit of exception to this because the two arguments are not the same, and I think it's a bit disingenuous to claim that they are. "It's just because of the electoral college", referring to Trump's victory, is not an unfactual statement. Biden also won because of the electoral college. The point there was that the electoral college led to Trump winning despite him having a minority of votes. The debate wasn't that Trump's victory was in any way fraudulent or illegal, but rather a criticism of the underlying mechanism that got him elected, and a call for potential change. Whether or not you agree with the criticism is another point; maybe you can find pros and cons for the electoral college, and maybe it was laid on a bit more thickly than it would have otherwise been because it was Trump. But if one believes that whoever gets the most popular vote should become leader, that wasn't a "sore loser" moment at all, or even claiming that anyone cheated, just a very rare example of why the system is broken under that premise (last time was in 2000 with Bush vs Gore, and before that in the 1800s).

The fraud thing is definitely thus far a set of unsubstantiated claims, and without a doubt something Trump planned to do from the beginning. I think one would have to be a fool to imagine that there is any scenario in which Trump would have accepted that he lost the election fairly. I don't think the two "sides" are comparable here.

[FrostByte]

I take a bit of exception to this because the two arguments are not the same, and I think it's a bit disingenuous to claim that they are. "It's just because of the electoral college", referring to Trump's victory, is not an unfactual statement. Biden also won because of the electoral college. The point there was that the electoral college led to Trump winning despite him having a minority of votes. The debate wasn't that Trump's victory was in any way fraudulent or illegal, but rather a criticism of the underlying mechanism that got him elected, and a call for potential change. Whether or not you agree with the criticism is another point; maybe you can find pros and cons for the electoral college, and maybe it was laid on a bit more thickly than it would have otherwise been because it was Trump. But if one believes that whoever gets the most popular vote should become leader, that wasn't a "sore loser" moment at all, or even claiming that anyone cheated, just a very rare example of why the system is broken under that premise (last time was in 2000 with Bush vs Gore, and before that in the 1800s).

The fraud thing is definitely thus far a set of unsubstantiated claims, and without a doubt something Trump planned to do from the beginning. I think one would have to be a fool to imagine that there is any scenario in which Trump would have accepted that he lost the election fairly. I don't think the two "sides" are comparable here.

Killary won the popular vote, too

[Renegade]

I take a bit of exception to this because the two arguments are not the same, and I think it's a bit disingenuous to claim that they are. "It's just because of the electoral college", referring to Trump's victory, is not an unfactual statement. Biden also won because of the electoral college. The point there was that the electoral college led to Trump winning despite him having a minority of votes. The debate wasn't that Trump's victory was in any way fraudulent or illegal, but rather a criticism of the underlying mechanism that got him elected, and a call for potential change. Whether or not you agree with the criticism is another point; maybe you can find pros and cons for the electoral college, and maybe it was laid on a bit more thickly than it would have otherwise been because it was Trump. But if one believes that whoever gets the most popular vote should become leader, that wasn't a "sore loser" moment at all, or even claiming that anyone cheated, just a very rare example of why the system is broken under that premise (last time was in 2000 with Bush vs Gore, and before that in the 1800s).

The fraud thing is definitely thus far a set of unsubstantiated claims, and without a doubt something Trump planned to do from the beginning. I think one would have to be a fool to imagine that there is any scenario in which Trump would have accepted that he lost the election fairly. I don't think the two "sides" are comparable here.

Thank you. The argument was about the electoral college itself, and not that Trump won it.

False equivalences once again. That's what Trumpkins employ to gaslight you. Equivocate their delusional fantasy land with reality.

Not gonna happen! (Like Trump's second term, so sad!)

[Bruno]

I mean. I'm not sure what you're expecting me to say this because the only thing I can do is just return to sender and I have no interest in that. We can keep juggling that until the sun dies.
Maybe you should just try to be more open minded? Lol

u the type of person that if you ever fuck a girl then when ur done you'll have a debate with her on if she came or not

[FrostByte]

u the type of person that if you ever fuck a girl then when ur done you'll have a debate with her on if she came or not

nah the female orgasm is a myth bro my pastor told me women use it as a way to make us all feel incompetent about sex when they don't cum because they never do it's impossible

[rumox]

u the type of person that if you ever fuck a girl then when ur done you'll have a debate with her on if she came or not

I tried up repping this but I've broken my repping ability currently. That made me laugh

[Voss]

27573

i got you fam

[Helz]

I take a bit of exception to this because the two arguments are not the same, and I think it's a bit disingenuous to claim that they are. "It's just because of the electoral college", referring to Trump's victory, is not an unfactual statement. Biden also won because of the electoral college. The point there was that the electoral college led to Trump winning despite him having a minority of votes. The debate wasn't that Trump's victory was in any way fraudulent or illegal, but rather a criticism of the underlying mechanism that got him elected, and a call for potential change. Whether or not you agree with the criticism is another point; maybe you can find pros and cons for the electoral college, and maybe it was laid on a bit more thickly than it would have otherwise been because it was Trump. But if one believes that whoever gets the most popular vote should become leader, that wasn't a "sore loser" moment at all, or even claiming that anyone cheated, just a very rare example of why the system is broken under that premise (last time was in 2000 with Bush vs Gore, and before that in the 1800s).

The fraud thing is definitely thus far a set of unsubstantiated claims, and without a doubt something Trump planned to do from the beginning. I think one would have to be a fool to imagine that there is any scenario in which Trump would have accepted that he lost the election fairly. I don't think the two "sides" are comparable here.

I understand what you are saying and it is a fair point but I just disagree. I am sure we have all seen sports games where a last minute call by a ref changed the outcome of the game and people leave that game yelling about how they were cheated because of the call. If you have a contest and then after the contest yell that the result was unfair because the pre-agreed rules are wrong how much different is that than saying the rules have been violated? In either case its a push to invalidate your opponents victory.

In terms of football I could see it being like saying "Fieldgoals are stupid and shouldn't be allowed anyways, If they were not allowed we would have won" vs "They deflated the balls and had an advantage."

Even if you want to disagree on the electoral college bit I don't think you would call my argument as a whole as disingenuous. Pick your own equivalence out the tantrums thrown by democrats after Hillary lost to Trump if you would like. My point is that 'Loosing' or even 'Winning' with grace has a very clear parallel with sportsmanship. And that there are some very interesting systemic questions we can ask about our society when looking at that parallel.

False equivalences once again. That's what Trumpkins employ to gaslight you. Equivocate their delusional fantasy land with reality. Pretty disappointing how these are the reactions I got while the underlying systemic questions didnt even provoke a thought. Do you even understand how quickly or why you went from taking what I said directly into categorizing me as a 'Trumpkin' and invalidating my argument using stereotypes of that categorization?

I really think at the heart of the increasing division in society in general (And as very well reflected in these sorts of topics on this form) this pattern is what drives that division. I will have a post on that at some point but I am genuinely curious how many people in this thread can look at their posts right now and realize how often they jump from debating a person/post into arguing against a social stereotype.

[Oberon]

u the type of person that if you ever fuck a girl then when ur done you'll have a debate with her on if she came or not
lmaooo

[Oberon]

Have you ever made a single argument defending a conservative stance without it being some variant of "left bad too"? I'm just curious.
Have you ever questioned your absolute hatred of conservatism? You've even said that 'I abhor conservatism' due to 'its inherent authoritarianism' (the last part is paraphrased). I'm quite sure that if you took a moment to examine your beliefs you would discover that, probably not so deep down, you are quite heavily biased where you cannot even accept the left is bad (not even the entire left, just a very vocal segment of it), if the right isn't bad as well. The problem is that the right is indeed 'bad' on some level, but the level of 'bad' is substantially different. You don't see people on the right trying to shame others out of their political beliefs or 'recommending anti-psychotics'.

To give you an example of the absurdities you sometimes reach, I'll refer to your meme about India where you pretty much made the claim that Hitler was more popular than Gandhi in India and that Hitler was popular there for the exact same reason that Trump is. I mean. I cannot make this shit up.

[FrostByte]

Have you ever questioned your absolute hatred of conservatism? You've even said that 'I abhor conservatism' due to 'its inherent authoritarianism' (the last part is paraphrased). I'm quite sure that if you took a moment to examine your beliefs you would discover that, probably not so deep down, you are quite heavily biased where you cannot even accept the left is bad (not even the entire left, just a very vocal segment of it), if the right isn't bad as well. The problem is that the right is indeed 'bad' on some level, but the level of 'bad' is substantially different. You don't see people on the right trying to shame others out of their political beliefs or 'recommending anti-psychotics'.

To give you an example of the absurdities you sometimes reach, I'll refer to your meme about India where you pretty much made the claim that Hitler was more popular than Gandhi in India and that Hitler was popular there for the exact same reason that Trump is. I mean. I cannot make this shit up.

You tried to dodge that question but I see you, Oberon. Answering a question with a question is intellectually disingenuous and indicative of you refusing to acknowledge the point he was making. I can tell you from person experience that oops doesn't absolutely hate conservatism. He holds some conservative views.

You're victimizing yourself. You justify people questioning you as "oh they must hate me" or "oh they must hate my ideology" but in reality we're all just questioning shit you're saying.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I've read too much disturbing things here for me to want to write a full reply now lol. Saying something that esentially comes down to "people should fear the state so much they will keep their political leanings concealed" or "people who voted for Trump should be punished" is advocating for the death of democracy, and if you're advocating for that, then you don't realize that the simple fact that you're at home writing this on your computer does not result in police knocking at your door to throw you into jail because you live under a democracy, even if it may be far from perfect (what Exeter is describing is not a real democracy at all, but at least it fakes being one, probably to avoid sanctions from actually democratic countries lol).

As for Aamirus' point, yes, Biden saying "heal the country" will make a part (not all because not all are insane, and some just want the country to heal, they just thought Trump was better for doing this (which is horribly wrong but still)) of Trump voters angry because "they stole our election!!!". However, by not saying anything, he'd just not be standing for what's right and would make those who had hope he'd clean the mess up angry, while not making Trump voters any happier because he'd still be president over Trump.

So to sum my views up: Voss and Stealth are right and I'm gonna be another part of their echo chamber!

[Oberon]

You tried to dodge that question but I see you, Oberon. Answering a question with a question is intellectually disingenuous and indicative of you refusing to acknowledge the point he was making. I can tell you from person experience that oops doesn't absolutely hate conservatism. He holds some conservative views.

You're victimizing yourself. You justify people questioning you as "oh they must hate me" or "oh they must hate my ideology" but in reality we're all just questioning shit you're saying.
The only person obsessed with victimhood here is you since you’re the one that keeps mentioning it. Also, I can literally pull snippets of oops uttering the words ‘I abhor conservatism’ because that is something factual that has been uttered.

[oops_ur_dead]

Have you ever questioned your absolute hatred of conservatism? You've even said that 'I abhor conservatism' due to 'its inherent authoritarianism' (the last part is paraphrased). I'm quite sure that if you took a moment to examine your beliefs you would discover that, probably not so deep down, you are quite heavily biased where you cannot even accept the left is bad (not even the entire left, just a very vocal segment of it), if the right isn't bad as well. The problem is that the right is indeed 'bad' on some level, but the level of 'bad' is substantially different. You don't see people on the right trying to shame others out of their political beliefs or 'recommending anti-psychotics'.

To give you an example of the absurdities you sometimes reach, I'll refer to your meme about India where you pretty much made the claim that Hitler was more popular than Gandhi in India and that Hitler was popular there for the exact same reason that Trump is. I mean. I cannot make this shit up.

You know, hearing your conclusions on that last bit, I really have to wonder if the way you twist things is intentional or if you just fundamentally have such a warped sense of understanding and input of facts that you really believe these types of things. If you think that I ever said Hitler is more popular than Gandhi in India, or that Hitler being popular for the same reason as Trump in anyway implies me equating the two, then you legitimately have a flaw in logical reasoning and how you interpret what others say. Either that, or you intentionally demonize and strawman people you disagree with.

As for the rest of your post, I'll say that I don't hate Conservatives and I don't even think the left is great. I actually post anti-leftist memes all the time. I just think that the left is more intellectually honest than the right and if I had to pick my poison then I'd prefer them.

Also, perfectly in line with my last post, your entire response was tone policing and "left bad too". Bravo.

[Oberon]

27576
27577
2757827577

[Oberon]

I think its time to call it quits when people legit start lying about things they’ve said and attack you for ‘demonizing and strawmanning others’. So, I’m out.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Dear thread,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf8nTiP5tBw

Petty arguments will fall, and logic shall rise, pure, free, uncontested! But for now, farewell to you, thread. You fell victim to a fateful struggle against off-topic namecalling.

[oops_ur_dead]

Thank you for posting those screenshots, I was too lazy to since I'm on my phone. They point out.... Exactly what I just said.

Maybe the only inaccurate part I said was generalizing all of India by saying they love "big strongman type" people. Of course not everyone in India loves Hitler, it's a small weird fandom if anything.

[rumox]

Hitler fucked Britain up so ofc Indians love Hitler

[rumox]

Anyway I can see how you thought oops said Hitler is more popular than Ghandi in India, but just cause he said Ghandi is controversial doesn't automatically mean his opinion defaults to Hitler being more popular due to Ghandi's controversial status.

[rumox]

And I think Hitler's adoration there can be linked to their adoration of Trump. They really do love strongman politicians, especially ones that cater to their interests. Quick google search of the question 'Why do Indians love Trump/Hitler nets the "Indians love strongman" general opinion based on the results. Obviously my use of 'they' shouldn't translate to literally every single Indian, but a good amount of them.

[oops_ur_dead]

And I think Hitler's adoration there can be linked to their adoration of Trump. They really do love strongman politicians, especially ones that cater to their interests. Quick google search of the question 'Why do Indians love Trump/Hitler nets the "Indians love strongman" general opinion based on the results. Obviously my use of 'they' shouldn't translate to literally every single Indian, but a good amount of them.

Yeah this was the only point I even made, if we're trying to intellectually discuss what I said outside of posting funny images.

There are also people in India that name their kids Lenin and Stalin for the exact same reason but obviously I'm not trying to equate them to Hitler in any way lmao.

Me pointing out that Gandhi is controversial isn't inaccurate, I've spoken to Indians who have a wide range of opinions on him, from adoration, to respect with healthy concern due to his personal life, to outright hate. I wasn't trying to link that in any way to any fandom around Hitler, thinking that I was trying to is absolute absurdity.

[oops_ur_dead]

It's a shame this thread was closed, I feel like there was some cool discussion. I didn't even get to respond to Helz's post.

[rumox]

Didn't even realise thread was locked Jebaited

[rumox]

Threads open.

Reason:

Locking threads here because they are off-topic is kinda sucky. Every thread here goes off-topic in varying degrees, it's just the nature of the discussions here. Keeping discussions on rails sounds good (especially when considering talking to maggotroth) but it stifles the discussion itself. Take a look at Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism thread where it went very off-topic. 17 pages worth of discussion @ 50 posts a page. Obviously people can debate whether if it was 'good' or 'worthwhile' discussion, but the point is people were very engaged and participating which was great.

Also the name-calling aspect... yes name calling happened and it literally happens every other thread. IMO to discuss topics like this people should expect to receive some zingy responses. Obviously we don't want to go TOO overboard with toxicity but to discuss topics that can have really profound effects on us in the real would, we all ought to expect some sort of tasteful verbal opposition if we feel like we need to take a stance on a matter. This isn't an endorsement of toxic behavior, more so a suggestion to.. harden the fk up cunts

[oops_ur_dead]

I understand what you are saying and it is a fair point but I just disagree. I am sure we have all seen sports games where a last minute call by a ref changed the outcome of the game and people leave that game yelling about how they were cheated because of the call. If you have a contest and then after the contest yell that the result was unfair because the pre-agreed rules are wrong how much different is that than saying the rules have been violated? In either case its a push to invalidate your opponents victory.

In terms of football I could see it being like saying "Fieldgoals are stupid and shouldn't be allowed anyways, If they were not allowed we would have won" vs "They deflated the balls and had an advantage."

Even if you want to disagree on the electoral college bit I don't think you would call my argument as a whole as disingenuous. Pick your own equivalence out the tantrums thrown by democrats after Hillary lost to Trump if you would like. My point is that 'Loosing' or even 'Winning' with grace has a very clear parallel with sportsmanship. And that there are some very interesting systemic questions we can ask about our society when looking at that parallel.


I still think your football analogy illustrates that the two arguments are fundamentally different, one being more valid than the other (although I have absolutely no knowledge of American football so maybe it's not, but whatever). If one holds the belief that fieldgoals are stupid and shouldn't be allowed, and then a team wins because of that, then one would be valid in continuing to criticize fieldgoals. I can understand your point if someone came up with the fieldgoals justification after the fact to think of any reason for why the other team's win wasn't "legitimate", then that would be sore loser behaviour. But if one holds a predetermined belief that fieldgoals are stupid, and a team wins only because fieldgoals are allowed, then they are fully within their rights to hold that as an example. Once again, nobody claimed that Trump won illegitimately or that he cheated, just that he won through a system that many people think is flawed, and that the system should changed, not even necessarily because of his win but on principle.

On the other hand, someone saying "they deflated the balls and had an advantage" absolutely is being a sore loser, especially if one has no evidence of that happening. There is no predetermined belief here other than "the other team cannot possibly win". There is no criticism of the system or suggested resolution or change in underlying beliefs here; it's a very clear bias towards a specific side and an attempt to create a justification explaining a single event rather than holding an event as an example of a perceived systemic flaw.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Sure, but try to keep this on topic, not on personal attacks. And ideally not on hating or liking conservatism or w/e either lol

Also, I wouldn't have closed it if Voss hadn't asked for it earlier in the thread.

[Helz]

I still think your football analogy illustrates that the two arguments are fundamentally different, one being more valid than the other (although I have absolutely no knowledge of American football so maybe it's not, but whatever). If one holds the belief that fieldgoals are stupid and shouldn't be allowed, and then a team wins because of that, then one would be valid in continuing to criticize fieldgoals. I can understand your point if someone came up with the fieldgoals justification after the fact to think of any reason for why the other team's win wasn't "legitimate", then that would be sore loser behaviour. But if one holds a predetermined belief that fieldgoals are stupid, and a team wins only because fieldgoals are allowed, then they are fully within their rights to hold that as an example. Once again, nobody claimed that Trump won illegitimately or that he cheated, just that he won through a system that many people think is flawed, and that the system should changed, not even necessarily because of his win but on principle.

On the other hand, someone saying "they deflated the balls and had an advantage" absolutely is being a sore loser, especially if one has no evidence of that happening. There is no predetermined belief here other than "the other team cannot possibly win". There is no criticism of the system or suggested resolution or change in underlying beliefs here; it's a very clear bias towards a specific side and an attempt to create a justification explaining a single event rather than holding an event as an example of a perceived systemic flaw.

There is a very real difference between criticizing the grounds of a competition and using critical views of the grounds of a competition to invalidate an opposing teams victory. Consider that if we did use the popular vote system in 2016 and Hillary had won I would imagine there would be Republicans pointing out that when you remove California's numbers Trump would have won by roughly 1.4 million votes. That the Electoral College would have more appropriately reflected the country's desire for the other 49 states. At the same time though, If we did use the popular vote I would imagine campaigning would be done very differently and it would have been a totally different race.

I will have to disagree with you that nobody claimed that Trump won illegitimately or that he cheated. People were quick to claim "Trump used Russia to curve the election" before it was substantiated. Swap that out the Electoral college argument with that if it makes the football analogy less offensive to you, but my point remains that I feel there is a connection between these kinds of behaviors and poor sportsmanship; and that the pattern of those behaviors could signify some systemic source.

[Renegade]

>Be a Trumpkin
>Trump wins 2016
>Massively increase division in this country
>Very fine people, on both sides!
>Proud Boys "Stand Back and Stand By!"
>Biden wins 2020
>NOOO NOW IS NOT THE TIME FOR DIVISION NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


Get. Fucking. Wreckt.

[Exeter350]

Saying something that esentially comes down to "people should fear the state so much they will keep their political leanings concealed" ... is advocating for the death of democracy,

It’s not really “fear”, people just know to respect it as a sensitive issue here.
You can vote for whoever you want, and there are controlled avenues for public discussions.
Daily conversations with your friends & family are fine too.
You just can’t post anything political, racist, anti-religious etc on public platforms, e.g. social media, newspapers, online blogs, YouTube channels or whatever.
And you can’t organise protests / gatherings.

To me, the speech restriction on such sensitive topics is a small price to pay for social stability.

To me, it is not a big loss.
Freedom of speech to do what? Be racist? Be disrespectful of other people’s religious beliefs & cultures? To divide the nation with manipulative political rhetoric? To shoot your mouth off without consequences?

That is no loss at all.

There is a designated time & place for political discourse.
People are not prevented from voicing their political views, they are just kept in check.
And as it’s a formal public event, tied to a person’s personal identity (no keyboard warrior-ing free of consequences), it’s a self-selective process that eliminates the dumb, lazy & misinformed.
If you’re up there on stage, it means you’ve actually done your research & prepared to speak about the politics you’re taking a stance on.

The truth is, most people on the Internet arguing about politics are misinformed, lazy, hateful or just plain provocative trolls looking to stir trouble.

We don’t need lazy amateur politicians.
The formal process helps to filter out the misinformation & white noise, and leave only the ones that have anything of substance worth listening to.


if you're advocating for that, then you don't realize that the simple fact that you're at home writing this on your computer does not result in police knocking at your door to throw you into jail because you live under a democracy, even if it may be far from perfect

This is way too dramatic and such a leap in logic.

I live in such a society and I’m enjoying first-world standards of living.
I am largely able to speak freely about most things.
Nobody’s throwing me in jail, because I respect the boundaries that have been laid out.

One of the best education systems, one of the best transport infrastructure, one of the cleanest cities in the world, one of the lowest crime rates, strong economy, etc.

6 million population in an island nation smaller than New York or London, and our COVID situation is under control (single digit daily new cases).

I could go on and on, but basically:

Not all freedoms should be protected.
Some freedoms should be given up for the greater good.

I don’t need the freedom to be a racist, political heckler or Islamophobe.
I don’t need the freedom to litter on the streets, or ruin my life with drugs.
I don’t need the freedom to break the COVID lockdown.
And I’m doing just fine.

[Renegade]

TREASON

https://twitter.com/MeidasTouch/status/1326232172986998785

[Oberon]

I need to interject here. While I disagree with Exeter about authoritarianism vs democracy, I don’t actually think its nice to cast Exeters views in such a dim light for a few reasons:
a) he lives in the society he describes, and thus puts his money where his mouth is
b) hes not suggesting that we all adopt it, merely arguing from a position where he believes that the kind of authoritarianism I attacked is a small price to pay for having a functional society. Again, given that he actually lives in such a society, I think its acceptable for him to be defending it

I have much greater issues with what Renegade is saying because a) it wouldn’t apply to him anyways (hes not a Trump supporter), b) he lives in a democracy so the point about political intimidation is moot since he has no idea what that would entail, c) hes suggesting that be actually implemented in our society.

[Renegade]

What do you think I'm saying exactly? Calling for Trump supporters to be executed?

No, they should accept the results of the election. If they do stupid shit like tweet racist memes and they lose their job they should accept that consequence.

Who knew calling for the country to vote and accept the result of that vote would be a controversy!

[Renegade]

There should be consequences for supporting an authoritarian, anti-truth, anti-science regime.

Actions have consequences.

Consequence being: you don't get to invalidate results because you lost.

Supporting Trump's racist rhetoric and presidency should have consequences:

https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1326213514495741958

[Renegade]

Inciting sedition because you can't accept you lost should have consequences.

If this is controversial, then I welcome the controversy.

[Renegade]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12O_5m6LR_g&feature=youtu.be

k I'm done ;)

link if the red box doesn't work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12O_5m6LR_g&feature=youtu.be

[Oberon]

There is no sedition lol
Trump believes there was fraud and obviously believes it was bad enough for him to lose.
Under those circumstances there is no reason for him to concede, especially seeing as Al Gore didn’t concede until about a month after the ballots were counted.

[Renegade]

There is no sedition lol
Trump believes there was fraud and obviously believes it was bad enough for him to lose.
Under those circumstances there is no reason for him to concede, especially seeing as Al Gore didn’t concede until about a month after the ballots were counted.

No sedition:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/jresbw/armed_protrump_rioters_blocking_traffic_and/

[Oberon]

I find that hilarious altho that has more to do with indvidiual
people than Trump. Trump didn’t tell people to attack election centers.

[DJarJar]

There is no sedition lol
Trump believes there was fraud and obviously believes it was bad enough for him to lose.
Under those circumstances there is no reason for him to concede, especially seeing as Al Gore didn’t concede until about a month after the ballots were counted.

In that case florida was the only state needed to flip the election from bush to gore. And bush's lead in florida was a mere 537 votes. The recount was forcibly stopped with the lead shrunk down to 154 votes. Studies show that Gore would likely have won if the recount was not stopped.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_United_States_presidential_election_recount_i n_Florida#Post-election_studies

In contrast, Trump needs to flip Georgia, Arizona, and Pennsylvania back. All 3. He's losing by about 12,000 in Georgia, 15,000 in arizona, and 48,000 in pennsylvania.

That's over 89 times more votes that he needs to makeup in pennsylvania.

Additionally, while arizona has been getting closer as more outstanding votes are counted, pennsylvania and georgia have both been getting further and further away

[Oberon]

I don’t see your point? He obviously believes that he can win so whether or not WE think it possible doesn’t really matter. Its fully legal to request a recount even though it likely wouldn’t change things.

[DJarJar]

I don’t see your point? He obviously believes that he can win so whether or not WE think it possible doesn’t really matter. Its fully legal to request a recount even though it likely wouldn’t change things.

Of course not all votes are counted yet, but Trump is well out of range of the recount margin in Arizona. You cannot request a recount in arizona, it is only triggered automatically if the margin is less than 0.1% of votes.
Trump is currently down by 0.5%.

[Oberon]

Ah alright. I suppose the only places where hes requesting a recount and expecting to get one are Georgia, PA, and Michigan, right? Unless I’m missing something?

[DJarJar]

Ah alright. I suppose the only places where hes requesting a recount and expecting to get one are Georgia, PA, and Michigan, right? Unless I’m missing something?

He can ask in georgia as long as it stays under 0.5% margin, which it probably will. He can ask in PA and Michigan but he'd have to pay and it's virtually impossible for it to change the results, so I don't think he actually will. I mean PA he's down 0.7% / 48,000 votes and Michigan it's 2.7% and 150,000 votes
He can also ask in wisconsin, but again he would have to pay and he's down 0.7% / 20,000 votes.
He can also ask in Nevada, but like michigan he's down 2.7%.

I mean the record of a recount shift is 2,567 votes in florida 2018.

I think it's more likely Trump knows he has lost already and he's just saying what he needs to say to keep his supporters energized. He'll probably never concede but just silently leave the white house in january. I mean republicans still want to hold onto senate control with the 2 runoff races in georgia in january and I guess admitting defeat might hurt their voter turnout.

[oops_ur_dead]

I think he's just so far up his own ass that he can't accept the fact that he lost. It just doesn't register in his brain.

He's probably going out with dementia like his dad, dude can barely even lift a glass of water. Poor guy should have been put out to pasture years ago.

[Oberon]

I highly doubt that's the reason Trump's doing that
I'm pretty sure he just can't accept he's lost and is trying everything he can.

[oops_ur_dead]

That's literally exactly what I said

[Oberon]

I was replying to aamirus

[Marshmallow Marshall]

There is a designated time & place for political discourse.
People are not prevented from voicing their political views, they are just kept in check.
And as it’s a formal public event, tied to a person’s personal identity (no keyboard warrior-ing free of consequences), it’s a self-selective process that eliminates the dumb, lazy & misinformed.
If you’re up there on stage, it means you’ve actually done your research & prepared to speak about the politics you’re taking a stance on.

The truth is, most people on the Internet arguing about politics are misinformed, lazy, hateful or just plain provocative trolls looking to stir trouble.

We don’t need lazy amateur politicians.
The formal process helps to filter out the misinformation & white noise, and leave only the ones that have anything of substance worth listening to.

And whatever doesn't fit a small group's goals.

Nobody's throwing you in jail "because you respect the boundaries that have been laid out", yes. If you agree with those current boundaries, well, good for you. If they change tomorrow and you can't say much because of the great weakness of democracy there, you might change your mind. It's a dangerous line behind which I would never want to live, but if you're good with it, well, I can only hope you and most people there will be, too.

I'll just stop there because this isn't a "is democracy good or bad" thread and I don't really want to get into this right now.

[Voss]

the admins have said i'm being uppity about my thread being pure, so i'll be uprepping people who stay on thread and downrepping people who don't.

[Voss]

the admins have said i'm being uppity about my thread being pure, so i'll be uprepping people who stay on thread and downrepping people who don't.

err, the moderators in general*

[Exeter350]

And whatever doesn't fit a small group's goals.

Nobody's throwing you in jail "because you respect the boundaries that have been laid out", yes. If you agree with those current boundaries, well, good for you. If they change tomorrow and you can't say much because of the great weakness of democracy there, you might change your mind. It's a dangerous line behind which I would never want to live, but if you're good with it, well, I can only hope you and most people there will be, too.

I'll just stop there because this isn't a "is democracy good or bad" thread and I don't really want to get into this right now.

Aight. And I hear you, I get where you’re coming from.


the admins have said i'm being uppity about my thread being pure, so i'll be uprepping people who stay on thread and downrepping people who don't.

Whoops.

In case I didn’t make it clear in my first post in this thread:

No I don’t think celebrating Trump’s defeat is a good thing.
It feels like “sore winner-ism” as you said.
It will only inflame tensions further, when people should be trying to reconcile.

If the “other side” wants to be sore losers & confrontational, that is their problem.
The winners should seek to be gracious and de-escalate the situation.