S-FM 303: Summer 2020 (Newbie Game) [Archive]

MartinGG99

June 24th, 2020, 04:42 PM

There are two phases : the day phase and the night phase. The day phase usually lasts 48 hours; the night, 24. During the night, players sumbit their night actions by PMing the Host. They may also participate in their night chat if they have one. The night is notably the time when Mafia chooses who they want to kill.
During the day, everyone posts in the game thread, created by the game's Host. Usually, every day has a Lynch possiblity. Depending on the lynch system, requirements to lynch (kill) a player change. However, there are two lynch systems that are commonly used : majority and plurality.

Majority lynch is a lynch system that requires [51% of living players] votes to lynch a player, while Plurality lynch happens at End of Day; the person with the most votes gets lynched.
The two systems can be combined in plurality + majority, which results in plurality lynch rules with the addition of Majority lynch possiblity during the day.
In order to vote against a player, use the The player's name format. The vote system of the forum will automatically take your vote into account. Once the lynch requirement is met, the Host will close the thread and show the player's flip (their role and alignment, usually). If lynch is attained through Majority, @The Godfather (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php?u=8070) , our lynch bot, will post a final vote count and close the thread.
Lynching a player kills them, effectively removing them from the game. They cannot post, vote, or use any actions, unless the Setup specifies otherwise.
In order to see where votes are placed, click the "Vote Count" button at top left of the page.

Ash Lael

I took this from
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/45499-New-FM-Player-s-Guide?p=828654#post828654
which is mostly an introductory guide for those new to FM, but this has tidbits about the forums specifically here.

Ash Lael

June 24th, 2020, 04:43 PM

MartinGG99

Is this just a random vote, or do you feel like the power role question is alignment indicative?

MartinGG99

June 24th, 2020, 04:48 PM

Yeah but the way people answer could give hints. Like I’ve only played one game really (my champs game on MU) but everyone there was pretty hardcore against discussing anything about power roles for that reason.

I am fairly familiar with the setup the champs has going on right now, given that I've already read some (Sorry for what happened to your game by the way). There was a very good reason for avoiding TPR's is because there was only one TPR possible, which was the JOAT. So if you were talking anything about power roles at all then you could be in serious trouble as someone may think you were bread crumbing it. But since there's a multitude of possibilities, i don't really see a hazard in doing this question.

Is this just a random vote, or do you feel like the power role question is alignment indicative?

Also, I do feel some aspects of this question, when taken into full account when everyone or most respond to it, can be Alignment Indicative. Or at the very least good basis for some reads. But if i explained exactly why then scum could just ruin it.

Renegade

June 24th, 2020, 04:51 PM

Also, I do feel some aspects of this question, when taken into full account when everyone or most respond to it, can be Alignment Indicative. Or at the very least good basis for some reads. But if i explained exactly why then scum could just ruin it.

How can answers be alignment indicative if the question it self is not?

bakermir

June 24th, 2020, 04:54 PM

Is this just a random vote, or do you feel like the power role question is alignment indicative?

I feel like I want to know why did he start talking about coroner, town power out of nothing.

MartinGG99

June 24th, 2020, 04:55 PM

How can answers be alignment indicative if the question it self is not?

Im not sure if I should answer that just yet, considering only 3 people (other than me) are present (in that they have posted after my question) and have reacted to it.

MartinGG99

June 24th, 2020, 05:03 PM

How can answers be alignment indicative if the question it self is not?

Anyways, if you think this question is bad then how would you propose a new one? I mean, I doubt you could explain it to me without revealing a question's secret, as a question's secret is, after all, meant to suprise scum in order to get a (hopefully) accurate read on them. I ask the same of Ash Lael too.

Ash Lael

June 24th, 2020, 05:07 PM

I feel like I want to know why did he start talking about coroner, town power out of nothing.

Im not sure if I should answer that just yet, considering only 3 people (other than me) are present (in that they have posted after my question) and have reacted to it.

Yeah, I think you should.

MartinGG99

I don’t want anyone answering that question and I do want you to explain yourself.

Ash Lael

June 24th, 2020, 05:10 PM

Anyways, if you think this question is bad then how would you propose a new one? I mean, I doubt you could explain it to me without revealing a question's secret, as a question's secret is, after all, meant to suprise scum in order to get a (hopefully) accurate read on them. I ask the same of Ash Lael too.

For a start I would ask about literally anything other than power roles.

MartinGG99

June 24th, 2020, 05:15 PM

Yeah, I think you should.

I don’t want anyone answering that question and I do want you to explain yourself.

Well then, I hope you get insights from whoever votes me, and whoever answers that question. I've only gotten responses from 3 people out of the 8 possible, and I had hoped for more. Remember that only 4 votes are needed in order to set me up for a scum hammer. They'll end the day before even a quarter of it has passed, and all that time for town discussion will be gone.

MartinGG99

June 24th, 2020, 05:17 PM

SuperJack

How would I go about in writing a Last Will? I know the setup mentions to PM the host, but are there any limitations or specific format?

Ash Lael

June 24th, 2020, 05:19 PM

Wtf is this? Two votes and you’re already talking like a dead man? While still refusing to answer the question?

MartinGG99

June 24th, 2020, 05:23 PM

Wtf is this? Two votes and you’re already talking like a dead man? While still refusing to answer the question?

Im encouraging people to respond to my question, regardless of whether or not they actually answer it. The question the host was one that I didn't know, and wanted to ask now just in case 12 hours from now, despite my future explanation, I would be lynched. But I believe everyone here are sensible people.

MartinGG99

June 24th, 2020, 05:25 PM

Correction/elaboration: The question to the Host was a question with regards to something I did not know. I couldn't find any sort of proper structure mentioning it (other than the setup) so i had to ask the host. Of couse, hosts have real lives and can take awhile to respond. That means asking earlier than when i need to ask it is better.

Ash Lael

June 24th, 2020, 05:27 PM

Renegade, what do you make of all this?

bakermir

June 24th, 2020, 05:29 PM

Well yeah sure.

People will wake up, see what you wrote and you will be up there eventually.

So I thought of a question for all to start things:

SuperJack

June 24th, 2020, 05:30 PM

SuperJack

How would I go about in writing a Last Will? I know the setup mentions to PM the host, but are there any limitations or specific format?

No. Just same rules as a normal post I guess. If there is a problem with any last wills I will let the author know.

Renegade

June 24th, 2020, 05:31 PM

Renegade, what do you make of all this?

I think it is really goofy. Regardless of what he thinks, why didn't he just write it off as "beginning of game banter" or something simple. He is making this way more complicated than it needs to be already and we are 2 pages in LMAO.

MartinGG99

June 24th, 2020, 05:37 PM

Well yeah sure.

People will wake up, see what you wrote and you will be up there eventually.

I think it is really goofy. Regardless of what he thinks, why didn't he just write it off as "beginning of game banter" or something simple. He is making this way more complicated than it needs to be already and we are 2 pages in LMAO.

Its mighty easy to strawman a person for starting a game with a question when no one else has proposed one. Of course, part of that is on my part due to the nature of the question. However, as i've stated, this is about hypotheticals, if we were a TPR and if we had a choice in choosing our TPR. I could easily see everyone answering this, with their hypothetical wants or choice, and the scum wouldn't know any better about who's who in regards to roles.

Ash Lael

June 24th, 2020, 05:49 PM

MartinGG99

June 24th, 2020, 06:03 PM

I've mulled it over a bit. I had hoped more people would answer it.

Basically, the point of the question was to figure out who would question me, and to what extent. I figure if people are town, they don't have an informed majority, and therefore are more skeptical of things. I wanted be proactive and get a good pool of reads to start from, and then other people might make their own informed analyses of it in the future. For example, if someone acted towny by questioning my motives and actions, but then refrained from attacking someone else in the future, that could be telling. If you review my past posts, you might see that I was hinting that I even counted your agression towards the question as an acceptable response, because thats the point. Scum might just answer it freely without care or question because they think there's nothing telling about it since it would be hypothetical.

Where you lose me is when you argue that the answers would provide no hints about roles if the responses came from town, but might if they came from scum.

When I meant "hints", im referring to the act where a person who is a TPR says something in response, and because of who they are, their answers are altered in such a way that a normal citizen would not have worded it. Considering this was a question where we could all say what we wanted, I sincerely believed being a TPR had no influence on what people answered. In hindsight, I suppose not answering the question out of fear could be accidentally hinting though, not that I believe that has occurred.

MartinGG99

June 24th, 2020, 06:05 PM

MartinGG99

June 24th, 2020, 06:07 PM

I apologize if you feel this question was counter intuitive to the town Ash Lael , but i hope you can understand now.

MartinGG99

June 24th, 2020, 06:09 PM

Of course, all these reads are inital and are by no means the truth and may be subject to change.

bakermir

June 24th, 2020, 06:18 PM

Here's my notes that I took about 30 minutes ago for it.

Initial reads (1 hour 30 mins in):

Auwt is sleeping.

Ash Lael is probably town

Bakermir is null, I might find out later with my explanation. Might be scum due to lack of depth in response?

Dallarian is not here yet.

Grakylan is not here yet.

Helltanis is not here yet.

Renegade seemed towny, but then again he hasn't voted me. Null-> Town leaning

Zedus is not here yet.

The way you started talking about being a coroner and random lynching was quite odd.

I dislike it when people discuss roles like that.

But then I casually voted you up. I just wanted to hear more from you. It felt like you wanted to tell us more about power roles.

At this point; you began lobbying for support from other two people in the conversation and started giving excuses about a possible misunderstanding.

As more people realized the purpose of voting you up; you continue to be very defensive and even to a point where you call someone a scum because they didn't explain in depth why they voted you up.

MartinGG99

June 24th, 2020, 06:33 PM

I feel like I want to know why did he start talking about coroner, town power out of nothing.

Well yeah sure.

People will wake up, see what you wrote and you will be up there eventually.

I honestly don't believe 2 posts, each only about 2 sentence's worth, is really depth in the criticism of my question. Then again, I only had you three to judge from, and considering there's a 57.8% (1 - ( 6 / chance that one of the mafia were one of you three, then I would choose you for that. Remember, though, 5 other people haven't "arrived" yet. There's a distinct possibility I may be wrong, but at least all our actions are known here for future reference as circumstantial evidence. For or against me.

But please do remember that I tried to do something to enlighten ourselves about each other in the town. Its only with our collective effort can we solve the game and catch the scum/mafia. I don't seriously think you are mafia or scum unless there's future evidence in connection with this that would convince me of that.

MartinGG99

June 24th, 2020, 06:34 PM

Woops, didn't finish the equation. Its (1 - (6 / 8)^ 3).

MartinGG99

June 24th, 2020, 06:34 PM

1 - ( 6 / 8 ) ^ 3

Ash Lael

June 24th, 2020, 06:45 PM

I apologize if you feel this question was counter intuitive to the town Ash Lael , but i hope you can understand now.

Hmm.

Reads:

MartinGG99: I really don’t know what to make of this guy. I still don’t like the question and think it’s dangerous for town. I was trying to figure out if he was just a clueless townie earlier, but he’s shown now that he’s definitely not clueless. So he’s either smart town or a smart wolf.

If he’s smart town, it’s all as he says. He disagrees with me that the question could help expose our power roles, and was looking for reactions (and got a few). Ok, fine, fair enough.

If he’s smart wolf the plan was to potentially expose some power roles, while having an “escape hatch” in claiming what he has. Possibly also gain some town cred for later by saying “Hey look, why would I draw attention To myself like that if I was scum?”

He’s definitely got the balls to stare down a couple of votes, and has made the judgement that this play will not get him lynched (correctly or otherwise). So either world is entirely possible. I guess the only alignment indicative part is the question of how likely it is that a smart, thoughtful player doesn’t see the risk to town?

I think... possible but relatively unlikely? He himself even mentioned a possible risk (a power role might avoid answering out of fear), so he’s clearly capable of seeing the risks. Perhaps they didn’t occur to him at first, but he seems like he would have thought this through at least a bit.

Plus he’s been very helpful and friendly to me - teaching me about the mechanics of the site and offering condolences for the cancelled game. Could just be a naturally nice and friendly guy - and I’m sorry for suspecting you for this Martin if you are! - but it’s also a cheap, easy way to get brownie points as a wolf.

So after all that I end up with a scum lean on him. I don’t feel confident in it, but I do want to keep my vote on him for now.

Renegade: Present, has opinions, seems to want to stay on the sidelines a bit. Critical of Martin’s play but didn’t really do anything about it. Could just be their personality, some people don’t like brawling. Tweaking me, but not enough to move them down from null yet.

Bakermir - I like this guy. Puts himself out there, isn’t afraid to push or to start a wagon. I feel a bit of town hunger in him. Town lean.

Everyone else - null.

MartinGG99

June 24th, 2020, 07:04 PM

Hmm.

Reads:

MartinGG99: I really don’t know what to make of this guy. I still don’t like the question and think it’s dangerous for town. I was trying to figure out if he was just a clueless townie earlier, but he’s shown now that he’s definitely not clueless. So he’s either smart town or a smart wolf.

If he’s smart town, it’s all as he says. He disagrees with me that the question could help expose our power roles, and was looking for reactions (and got a few). Ok, fine, fair enough.

If he’s smart wolf the plan was to potentially expose some power roles, while having an “escape hatch” in claiming what he has. Possibly also gain some town cred for later by saying “Hey look, why would I draw attention To myself like that if I was scum?”

He’s definitely got the balls to stare down a couple of votes, and has made the judgement that this play will not get him lynched (correctly or otherwise). So either world is entirely possible. I guess the only alignment indicative part is the question of how likely it is that a smart, thoughtful player doesn’t see the risk to town?

I think... possible but relatively unlikely? He himself even mentioned a possible risk (a power role might avoid answering out of fear), so he’s clearly capable of seeing the risks. Perhaps they didn’t occur to him at first, but he seems like he would have thought this through at least a bit.

Plus he’s been very helpful and friendly to me - teaching me about the mechanics of the site and offering condolences for the cancelled game. Could just be a naturally nice and friendly guy - and I’m sorry for suspecting you for this Martin if you are! - but it’s also a cheap, easy way to get brownie points as a wolf.

I have no objections to your evaluation of me. I think you've made a few valid points of me.

Although, this suggests to me that you think there are circumstances that of which I didn't think of. To be completely honest and fair, I am willing to admit there's a fair possibility of that. Even though I've done some homework towards understanding FM, my inexperience in playing FM could mean that I am currently unaware or incapable of thinking of circumstances where the hazard exists. I mean, after all, you were the one who went to a Champs game at MU.

Ash Lael

June 24th, 2020, 07:14 PM

I have no objections to your evaluation of me. I think you've made a few valid points of me.

Although, this suggests to me that you think there are circumstances that of which I didn't think of. To be completely honest and fair, I am willing to admit there's a fair possibility of that. Even though I've done some homework towards understanding FM, my inexperience in playing FM could mean that I am currently unaware or incapable of thinking of circumstances where the hazard exists. I mean, after all, you were the one who went to a Champs game at MU.

How inexperienced are you? And how much of champs have you spectated/read this season?

MartinGG99

June 24th, 2020, 07:23 PM

How inexperienced are you? And how much of champs have you spectated/read this season?

Inexperienced as in this is literally my first FM game. I watched/read yours, season 7 game 8, I think I read parts of the season 3 game where Sorian was the last survivng mafia and made it to the end despite all his teammates being put to the chopping block on the first three days. I've watched three or four episodes of the podcast, all game reviews. And I've kind of just read bits here and there. I cant remember what exactly everything I've read since i was putting in a few hours each day for about a week.

MartinGG99

June 24th, 2020, 07:27 PM

Chances are is that I felt overconfident with the amount of watching/reading that I did and therefore didn't spend enough time thinking about the possible outcomes of my question. However, I am only a noob in terms of experience, so what can one expect? :huh:

MartinGG99

June 24th, 2020, 07:31 PM

Anyways, I'm just going to chill here for a bit unless you have further questions. I mean, I've posted half (or nearly half) the post count as of right now. I'll be more active again when more people start arriving.

Ash Lael

June 24th, 2020, 07:43 PM

Hmm. Yeah ok, I guess I can see it coming from a smart-but-inexperienced town Martin. Not that I’m particularly experienced myself - this will (hopefully!) be my first non-cancelled forum game - but I have spent a lot of time following games and hanging out in spec chat and so forth and absorbed a fair bit of stuff by osmosis.

Ok, a couple more questions.

1) What would your start of game strategy been if you were scum?

2) How did you feel when the second vote went on?

Ash Lael

June 24th, 2020, 07:44 PM

Oh, and 3) What brought you here for your first game?

Renegade

June 24th, 2020, 07:47 PM

Yeah I'm waiting for more peepz to engage....

Ash Lael

June 24th, 2020, 08:00 PM

Yeah I'm waiting for more peepz to engage....

Well how about you give us your reads on the three other people who have engaged so far?

MartinGG99

June 24th, 2020, 08:06 PM

Ok, a couple more questions.

1) What would your start of game strategy been if you were scum?

If I'm going to be absolutely honest, potentially quite similar to what I did at the start of this game, maybe select a more sketchy question or don't question at all since a scum would already know who's town (which is possibly what I got most from the question). The socializing aspect of FM appeals to me and, as it applies to myself, it doesn't make much sense to me to participate in a social game only to not be social when evil. I really like discussing and arguing for or against things (though i will admit i rarely, but sometimes, have an ego problem that i'm always working to try and fix).

2) How did you feel when the second vote went on?

I did feel slightly concerned that nobody was going to answer my question directly. I had hope there would be a more varied response (which normally would come with more responses) to evaluate and make reads upon. This early in the game, ISO's are pointless in my opinion (with the low post count and attendance) and so the only thing I have for reads are reactions, If all the reactions are relatively the same, then either I've evaluated all towns or everyone simply would react in the same way, making the question itself pointless along with it reads. And if that's so, then all I did was very little.

Oh, and 3) What brought you here for your first game?

I used to play the mod version of -Mafia- on Starcraft II. I have had around 700 games of it, and they were quite fun. Unfortunately, i need to maintain a bit of variety in my life otherwise it quickly gets boring no matter how fun something is. I heard about FM and knew about it for awhile, but I was discouraged to check it out primarily due to two things:

1. Years earlier I was dealing with depression and a few select issues that made me doubt my competence for a game that may have a heavier emphasis on the social aspect. If you ever look into the mod, you'll see its much more speedy and there's almost always a power role for everyone, as the primary way of catching evils is often derived from role-based leads. There was often little behavioral analysis and assuming you remembered all the 54 role interactions, it was fairly simple. However, that leads me to my 2nd reason

2. I also was concerned about the massive expanse of additional roles that could be added to the game, and considering the mod almost always used "[Alignment] [Role type (I.e. killing)] Random" slots, and i had felt that with the flexibility of FM, it would be harder to remember roles and whatnot since there could be a bunch more. Thankfully, all the possible roles and role interactions are more clearly explained on setup pages for FM.

Its only untill recently about 2 weeks ago SuperJack mentioned it to me and I looked into it.

MartinGG99

June 24th, 2020, 08:14 PM

As part of a habit due to a feature from Starcraft II's mod -Mafia-, I took note of certain role chances and etc. Here's some of them.

KEEP IN MIND THAT MOST OF THESE ARE VERY IN-GENERAL AND NOT CASE SPECIFIC

--------------

Mafia has a 42% (3/7) chance of killing a town power role this night, and another 42% (3/7) chance of having the non-killing role
target a TPR (assuming all Town Any aren't Citizen).

Town power roles with targetable abilities each only have a 25% (2/8) chance of targeting a mafia tonight.
Collectively, that means a 57.8% (1-(6/8)^3) chance that at least one of the TPRs will target a mafia this night.

Doctor/Bodyguard has 12.5% (1/8) chance of healing/guarding the mafia kill target, assuming the Doc/BG isn't the mafia kill target.

Detective has a 12.5% (1/8) chance of tracking the mafia who goes to kill.

Jailor has a 25% (2/8) chance of jailing a mafia, but keep in mind the other mafia can just kill for them.

Mason/Crier can't target anything, and considering Mason cannot convert, Mason is worth less than crier unless double roll.

Escort has a 25% (2/8) of hitting mafia, but also has 25% (2/8) to hit a TPR, and 12.5% (1/8) within the first 25% to hit the killer.

Assuming Veteran is visited while on Alert, there is a 50% (2/4) chance that they are mafia. Lookouts aren't immune to veteran.

Obviously, Cororner, Mayor, and Marshall can't target mafia but they have their obvious uses in their abilities.

We can skip lynching people, but based on the information above, I suggest we don't. In which case, I hope we can come to a
consensus by the end of this day phase on who to lynch.

----------------

More stats:

If you are a TPR and reveal, there is a 33.9% (1 -(13/16)^2) chance that *a* Bodyguard, Doc, or Bus Driver exists in the other two
TPR's. Additionally, there's a 55% (1 - (6/9)^2) chance that one of the two mafias are a Consort, Beguiler, or Kidnapper.

There is also a 17.6% (1 - (15/16)^3) chance that one of the TPR's could have rolled Citizen.

There is a 33% (1 - (14/16)^3) chance that one of the TPR's is a Mayor or Marshall

----------------
DAY 2 STATS IF WE LYNCH A TOWNIE, AND A TOWNIE DIES NIGHT 1

Presumably, a TPR wouldn't get lynched as they would reveal, probably only to be night killed.

Mafia has either a 60% (3/5) chance or 40% (2/5) chance to kill a TPR

Doctor/Bodyguard has a 16.6% (1/6) chance of healing/guarding a mafia kill target, unless they themselves are the target.

Detective has a 16.6% (1/6) chance of tracking the mafia who goes to kill.

Jailor has a 33% (2/6) chance of jailing either of the mafias on night 2.

Escort has a 33% (2/6) chance of hitting mafia, but can also have either a 33% (2/6) or 16.6% (1/6) chance to hit a TPR.

Veteran has a 50% (2/4) or 66% (2/3) chance of hitting a mafia if he is visited that night. As stated before, lookouts are not immune.

MartinGG99

June 24th, 2020, 08:15 PM

Darn 8) emojis, whenever you see one of them, its supposed to be an " 8 ) "

Renegade

June 24th, 2020, 08:15 PM

Well how about you give us your reads on the three other people who have engaged so far?
Sure-

Marino is currently null for me. I think the over the top start was and flim flam was a bit goofy but ultimately NAI to me at this time. I like that he wants to create discussion, but copious amount of random discussion doesn't help town IMO.

Bakemire - Not much to go off here other than the pushing of Marino a bit. Null.

Ash Loreal- snappy, seems towny, with the pointed questions and responses which are posed so far to extract information that would be useful for town. Leans town.

MartinGG99

June 24th, 2020, 08:51 PM

Alright, its 11:50 PM here. I'm going to head to bed. I'll be back here hopefully for another hour or two in the morning, and sporadically through the rest of tomorrow.

I wish you all good luck, and I hope our discussions today will prove useful in the future.

As a side note, if you're left thinking that I implied that I was evil in response to Ash's question, then allow me to put it in another way: While I am currently posting a lot, that is because I like being social in this game, not because I am Town. Even if I were not Town, I would still like to post a lot because I like being social in this game. I honestly enjoy discussing arguments and the points for them as a matter of life, not because of this game.

bakermir

June 24th, 2020, 08:54 PM

Sure-

Marino is currently null for me. I think the over the top start was and flim flam was a bit goofy but ultimately NAI to me at this time. I like that he wants to create discussion, but copious amount of random discussion doesn't help town IMO.

Bakemire - Not much to go off here other than the pushing of Marino a bit. Null.

Ash Loreal- snappy, seems towny, with the pointed questions and responses which are posed so far to extract information that would be useful for town. Leans town.

Don't be shy Renegade.

4 sounds like he isn't from downtown but from uptown or beyond.

It would be logical to get a wolf on trial and place the first piece of puzzle.

Ash Lael

June 24th, 2020, 09:01 PM

As a side note, if you're left thinking that I implied that I was evil in response to Ash's question, then allow me to put it in another way:

Uuuugh. I didn’t really like the answer - seemed too thought out or something? I dunno, was having a hard time putting it into words. Like not horrible but not really what I would have expected from town and I wasn’t sure whether I was overthinking it or there was actually something fishy there.

But this unprompted “clarification”? I hate it. It reeks of wolfy self-consciousness.

I came close to unvoting you a couple of times but right now I feel glad I didn’t.

Dallarian

June 24th, 2020, 10:39 PM

Good morning everyone! I hope this will be a great game, since it is first one for majority of people here.

Also I vote Auwt, to put early pressure on him, before he can start putting pressure on new players. My prevention attack.

Auwt

Dallarian

June 24th, 2020, 10:43 PM

Also:

Lex retro non agit.

Dallarian

June 24th, 2020, 10:46 PM

uwu

Grakylan

June 24th, 2020, 10:52 PM

Dallarian

June 24th, 2020, 11:12 PM

Ash Lael

June 24th, 2020, 11:15 PM

bakermir

June 24th, 2020, 11:19 PM

That's a huge red flag right there with voting up a random lynch on someone who isn't even here.

I find it suspicious too.

Grakylan

June 24th, 2020, 11:25 PM

Auwt

Disregard that previous vote. Old habits from the mod where I rando for info. I shouldn't have been too hasty without reading the thread first considering I had to do stuff irl right as the game began. Whoops.

So now the question is wtf is Dallarian doing trying to rando Auwt for being a FM veteran?

Whats more concerning is this is Martin's first FM game and hes already doing AtE with le depression and being a whole ass mathematician.
"My old habit from the mod is to big brain calculate the intricate math behind the save on day 1." Why? Most of us mod players don't do it til we die or its lategame. But its literally the earlygame.

Why are you trying to bring up "muh depression?" Everyone heres kinda an introvert, or was just overwhelmed by how much FM takes, not gonna lie. But depression?

Is he trying to gain our sympathy? Why would he need to do that if he was a power role and could just prove himself eventually? Its like hes drawing a road map for his potential scum.

Sorry for being brash but I just needed to bring it up.

MartinGG99

Grakylan

June 24th, 2020, 11:30 PM

Not to mention Dallarian trying to rando someone (mr. Auwt) who "isn't here" at all. Haven't seen a post from him so I could kinda understand wanting to force him to talk...

Maybe just wait a few more hours to see if he speaks up? He could just be busy like I was.

Dallarian

June 24th, 2020, 11:39 PM

Where you lose me is when you argue that the answers would provide no hints about roles if the responses came from town, but might if they came from scum.

Like if it’s completely hypothetical and nothing anyone says could imply anything about what role they have... then how is it supposed to help you catch wolves?
In here you use deduction skills and other stuff to catch wolves. 2 previous games (Nightless, and catching mafia d1) are good examples of it. Fortunately we don't have roles like electromaniac here, but you are probably aware what means power role revealing D1, specially if we are not sure, if we have protective role at all.

I've mulled it over a bit. I had hoped more people would answer it.

Basically, the point of the question was to figure out who would question me, and to what extent. I figure if people are town, they don't have an informed majority, and therefore are more skeptical of things. I wanted be proactive and get a good pool of reads to start from, and then other people might make their own informed analyses of it in the future. For example, if someone acted towny by questioning my motives and actions, but then refrained from attacking someone else in the future, that could be telling. If you review my past posts, you might see that I was hinting that I even counted your agression towards the question as an acceptable response, because thats the point. Scum might just answer it freely without care or question because they think there's nothing telling about it since it would be hypothetical.

When I meant "hints", im referring to the act where a person who is a TPR says something in response, and because of who they are, their answers are altered in such a way that a normal citizen would not have worded it. Considering this was a question where we could all say what we wanted, I sincerely believed being a TPR had no influence on what people answered. In hindsight, I suppose not answering the question out of fear could be accidentally hinting though, not that I believe that has occurred.
That's some clever experienced guy stuff, isn't it?
Fear not, saying you need 4 votes to lynch someone is a lie, but just a small one. You are not in any danger yet. You need 5 votes to lynch, and your self vote doesn't count.

Anyways, I'm just going to chill here for a bit unless you have further questions. I mean, I've posted half (or nearly half) the post count as of right now. I'll be more active again when more people start arriving.
That's scary mate. Slow down a bit please.

I need to think over yesterday's discussion, a lot of things happen with Martin. I would be likely to Town read him for taking a lot of attention, what mafia usually wouldn't like, but he just said he likes being social.

Dallarian

June 24th, 2020, 11:54 PM

I just have learnt how multiquote works like, can be useful in the future.

Auwt

Disregard that previous vote. Old habits from the mod where I rando for info. I shouldn't have been too hasty without reading the thread first considering I had to do stuff irl right as the game began. Whoops.

So now the question is wtf is Dallarian doing trying to rando Auwt for being a FM veteran?

Whats more concerning is this is Martin's first FM game and hes already doing AtE with le depression and being a whole ass mathematician.
"My old habit from the mod is to big brain calculate the intricate math behind the save on day 1." Why? Most of us mod players don't do it til we die or its lategame. But its literally the earlygame.

Why are you trying to bring up "muh depression?" Everyone heres kinda an introvert, or was just overwhelmed by how much FM takes, not gonna lie. But depression?

Is he trying to gain our sympathy? Why would he need to do that if he was a power role and could just prove himself eventually? Its like hes drawing a road map for his potential scum.

Sorry for being brash but I just needed to bring it up.

MartinGG99

To start with, it's definitely too early to lynch, so I would be very happy if people from the future didn't vote Martin.

I do not consider Auwt as veteran, he played literally 2 games this month. What I am try to do? Well, I can explain that later.
But you say you are trying to get informaton by random voting, and then after literally 2 posts you are retreating to safety by unvoting. Mission failure, I guess.
Also I believe I have learnt new phrase in English for that, "flip floping"? I am still unsure about it's meaning, would be happy if someone explained it to me.

Martin turns out to be interesting character and I'd like to hear his future conclusions d1 or d2 before I will consider voting/lynching him.

Also fun fact:
Imagine 2 Mafias waking up and lynching instantly Martin right now for "reasonable" reasons, saying they read only part of thread and didn't see other votes.
Because Martin is put on 3 votes right now, as far as I remember. If mafia haven't already voted him for his contribution into town play.

Dallarian

June 24th, 2020, 11:59 PM

Also fun fact:
Imagine 2 Mafias waking up and lynching instantly Martin right now for "reasonable" reasons, saying they read only part of thread and didn't see other votes.
Because Martin is put on 3 votes right now, as far as I remember. If mafia haven't already voted him for his contribution into town play.

Okay, fortunately, they can't do that. Grakylan 's vote doesn't count, since it is in same post with "unvote". I find it a positive thing. (usually you should just vote Martin, and it would take your vote from Auwt automaticly), unless it's some way to bait me.

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 12:03 AM

I am trying to make some good work with colors , do you think it works fine right now?

Also please add profile picture Grakylan , so that we can start recognising your posts with it. I believe it's easier to pay attention to symbol/colors (I really hope my Battleship is hiting your eyes! OwO), it can add a little clearance to the game.

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 12:23 AM

Same goes to
Ash Lael

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 12:25 AM

I am not trying to discredit Auwt, ofcourse he earned much from his games and is probably far above us in terms of game skill.
That's just explanation for Grakylan.

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 12:37 AM

Also my answer for Martin:
I would probably choose lookout. I find it a cool invest role. I'd rather go for Investigator, but that role is not available in the setup and I find Sheriff boring.
Finding crimes, that's what I like doing.

Zedus

June 25th, 2020, 02:43 AM

Zedus is not here yet.

Well, now I am here.

Zedus

June 25th, 2020, 02:48 AM

We can skip lynching people, but based on the information above, I suggest we don't. In which case, I hope we can come to a
consensus by the end of this day phase on who to lynch.

So you want just randomly lynch someone for no reason? Maybe we should lynch you then, how do you think?

Auwt

June 25th, 2020, 02:48 AM

I forgot about two things:

First, activity:
Around half of players here are EU players, I understand that we have a lot of US/NA players and people from other time zones, so expect around 6-7 BEFORE start of game time, to be the most active period of the day (evening on EU, afternoon on NA i believe). And since day is long, we will still have enough time to discuss everything, I hope.

Secondly:

Hi all gl hf
And may the Town win.

Yeah yeah as long as we are active that matters.

Good morning everyone! I hope this will be a great game, since it is first one for majority of people here.

Also I vote Auwt, to put early pressure on him, before he can start putting pressure on new players. My prevention attack.

Auwt

I've already seen this strat somewhere, do as you please, I will defend myself only near death sentence.

Uh, I would like you to explain this strategy please. What info exactly do you expect to obtain from lynching Auwt?

I'm obviously a threat for Dallarian : )

That's a huge red flag right there with voting up a random lynch on someone who isn't even here.

I find it suspicious too.

I appreciate your support but since its quite random no need to worry. Also you should watch out, this can be seen as 'Lets build a coalition against Dallarian the Rebel'

Auwt

Disregard that previous vote. Old habits from the mod where I rando for info. I shouldn't have been too hasty without reading the thread first considering I had to do stuff irl right as the game began. Whoops.

So now the question is wtf is Dallarian doing trying to rando Auwt for being a FM veteran?

Whats more concerning is this is Martin's first FM game and hes already doing AtE with le depression and being a whole ass mathematician.
"My old habit from the mod is to big brain calculate the intricate math behind the save on day 1." Why? Most of us mod players don't do it til we die or its lategame. But its literally the earlygame.

Why are you trying to bring up "muh depression?" Everyone heres kinda an introvert, or was just overwhelmed by how much FM takes, not gonna lie. But depression?

Is he trying to gain our sympathy? Why would he need to do that if he was a power role and could just prove himself eventually? Its like hes drawing a road map for his potential scum.

Sorry for being brash but I just needed to bring it up.

MartinGG99

Firstly, I wouldnt consider myself as a game veteran, played 2 games, once as a suburdinate scum where I joined D3. The second game I didnt have much impact either sadly.
I believe mathematic fact are useful to get understood early on the game, still. Could also be seen as a post trying to get our mind off something
Do not forget that this save has a great amount of Citizens. So Martin could eventually not prove himself in any other way.

Not to mention Dallarian trying to rando someone (mr. Auwt) who "isn't here" at all. Haven't seen a post from him so I could kinda understand wanting to force him to talk...

Maybe just wait a few more hours to see if he speaks up? He could just be busy like I was.

I'm trying to catch up several pages, and also had to take a break ^^
As I said Dallarian is trying to intimidate me, wont fall in this open trap still : )

Okay, fortunately, they can't do that. Grakylan 's vote doesn't count, since it is in same post with "unvote". I find it a positive thing. (usually you should just vote Martin, and it would take your vote from Auwt automaticly), unless it's some way to bait me.

Anyway heavy hammering at L-2 instantly would make them susp as hell
Btw Dallarian youre pretty agressive, what's happening ?

Auwt

June 25th, 2020, 02:54 AM

So I thought of a question for all to start things:

If you were a TPR and could choose any role possible within the setup that is a TPR, what would it be?

If i had to choose a role, I would lovely take Crier.
It's so amazing to share your thought anonymously, and no one can spam anything else (unless Judge game lol, but those are the best : D )
You can share you thoughts, and you know everyone will be listening to it.
And since Crier is town role, everyone will know that you aint a scum giving fake clue or whatsoever
Still its really hard to master.

Auwt

June 25th, 2020, 03:00 AM

I will try to post my thought toward each of you later in the day.
I've already got some ideas who could be what alignment/role.

Zedus

June 25th, 2020, 03:05 AM

MartinGG99 said a lot of "stats" to make town lynch someone. But all his arguments make no sense, although they look impressive to someone. There is only one weighty argument - the result of a d1 random lynch with a 77% chance will be the death of one of the townies. So there is NO REASON for townies be lynch-happy d1. That's why MartinGG99 is most likely evil. And he just want to kill one townie before n1 to make mafia win easier.

MartinGG99

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 03:10 AM

I've already seen this strat somewhere, do as you please, I will defend myself only near death sentence.
I'm obviously a threat for Dallarian : )
I wonder where? :wondering:
Lynch that guy, he is an obvious threat to me.

I appreciate your support but since its quite random no need to worry. Also you should watch out, this can be seen as 'Lets build a coalition against Dallarian the Rebel'

I am not modkilled yet, fortunately.

Firstly, I wouldnt consider myself as a game veteran, played 2 games, once as a suburdinate scum where I joined D3. The second game I didnt have much impact either sadly.

Yes.

As I said Dallarian is trying to intimidate me, wont fall in this open trap still : )

I loved how someone was ready to follow my vote on you.

Anyway heavy hammering at L-2 instantly would make them susp as hell

We are in newbie game. I expect that weird things could happen, and that would be an interesting play. They would get targeted by us and everything would rely on their defence. Still could happen. I believe putting someone on L-2 or L-1 shouldn't be a thing until we talked with everyone here.

Btw Dallarian youre pretty agressive, what's happening ?

I can't rely on Power Roles to solve the game for me. I have read a few guides and there is some awesome higher entity guiding me toward ascension.
I cannot call my play aggressive, since I am not attacking anyone (maybe except some person who joined me in my voting against you).
I believe you perfectly know why I have voted you. And I got what I wanted. Now ofcourse I have no idea what to do with it, gonna wrap it in nice box and put on "information" shelf.
I am not as evil as someone, to keep my vote on them for all the day.
Auwt

Also I wonder if I can use other HTML colors than ones given by forum. Apparently I can.

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 03:13 AM

Auwt
I am aware what you are going to do soon, but give us some more time to observe first, it's an interesting situation.

Helltanis

June 25th, 2020, 03:20 AM

Hi all I'm kinda new to this, any advice or tips?

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 03:26 AM

Yeah yeah as long as we are active that matters.
Btw Dallarian youre pretty agressive, what's happening ?
The perfect answer would be to insert here a video (or link), but unfortunately it is against the rules, so I will just put it in a text form.

Artanis: Do not presume to lecture me about my decisions, Tal'darim.
Alarak: But. I so enjoy our exchanges.

But idk who is who here.

Helltanis

June 25th, 2020, 03:30 AM

Do we all have 1 life from bad guys attck?

Helltanis

June 25th, 2020, 03:32 AM

I am Helltanis I ve been summoned here to bring the hell fleet to the heavens and execute all those who oppose me and my fellow citizens so that justice may be served

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 03:33 AM

Hellstorm

FM Important threads:
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/45519-FM-Important-Threads-amp-Guides?p=828747&viewfull=1#post828747

New player guide: (learn here how to vote Auwt!), a lot of information how to write your posts, including voting commends.
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/16080-New-User-Guide

SuperJack's really nice thread, tips from recent players, wrote specially for us!

Very powerful, but timeconsuming tool to use: Helz guide to improving as a player.
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/35503-Helz-guide-to-improving-as-a-player-Part-1-Communication

Also confirming someone as townie and building your play around that person probably may work. Just make sure to exclude Auwt, bakermir, Dallarian and Renegate from that list.

Well, since we're in mid of game, basicly try to win as townie. As I mentioned to you earlier, there is big attention placed on Day time speaking, and only a few power roles are in the game (who knows, we maybe have no investigative roles!).
You should be watching for behaviour patterns and who act suspiciously. I will write more on that later. Cannot spoil you everything at once.

Auwt

June 25th, 2020, 03:34 AM

Hi all I'm kinda new to this, any advice or tips?

Do not forget there are some mentors available if you need, just ask on discord, SuperJack can give you someone to help you a bit in depth
General tips would be to play your team condition, if you townie act like a townie, if you scum... act like a townie?

Basicaly it's very similiar to -Mafia- in sc2, except day lasts 24h in real life and night also does.

Helltanis

June 25th, 2020, 03:36 AM

Dallarian so we are already in the middle of the game?

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 03:36 AM

SuperJack's really nice thread, tips from recent players, wrote specially for us!
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/46854-Scumreading-and-Townreading-Your-thoughts-tips-and-guidance

I forgot to link this one.

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 03:37 AM

Dallarian so we are already in the middle of the game?
If you go to page 1, you will see timer for end of Day 1. We're in early D1 right now. Also Martin is getting lynched, and most of people haven't spoke yet.

Ash Lael

June 25th, 2020, 03:38 AM

:facepalm:

Guys, can we please stop answering Martin’s dumb question?

Okay, updated reads list:

Auwt - I’m not really sure what to make of him yet. Still want to see some more from him before I put him in a basket. Null.

Renegade - Still null, still tweaking me minorly. Definitely want to see more from this slot.

Dallarian - Town lean. Kind of an effusive, carefree style, along with some solid pro-town advice and a solvy attitude. Speaking of which, MartinGG99 for now to make sure we don’t hammer early. And yes, I will get myself an avatar. Nothing solid yet but I get good feels from this slot.

MartinGG99 - Still my strongest scum read.

Helltanis - Null

Zedus - Weak town lean. Vibing with his query to Grak about if he’d volunteer to be the random lynch, it’s exactly what I said in a similar situation in game 8 (to a player who ended up mislynched town, whoops).

Grakylan - I don’t feel good about this guy. The initial ‘random’ vote (on someone who already had a vote) felt poor. The sudden about face to a much better style of play is welcome but the excuse that he, uh, forgot he was playing on forum is... weak. And he immediately jumped on a wagon that was building in a way that could be construed as opportunistic.

Really, the best thing in his favour is that he’s highly unlikely to be in a team with Martin. I don’t think scum can really afford to bus D1 with three town power roles out there, and Martin is a precarious position where he could get lynched but it’s not guaranteed. So I think it’s fairly likely that there is exactly one wolf between Grak and Martin, and if we are able to correctly identify which it is we will be able to clear the other as a bonus.

bakermir - Still my strongest town read.

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 03:39 AM

Basicaly it's very similiar to -Mafia- in sc2, except day lasts 24h in real life and night also does.

Day lasts 48 hours. Another small lie.

Auwt

June 25th, 2020, 03:39 AM

Auwt
I am aware what you are going to do soon, but give us some more time to observe first, it's an interesting situation.

Thats why I said i will wait a bit, so you guys can make your own opinion (and i will pick from them lol...uh jking).
I'm willing to wait for every player to post (unless they wont ever), therefore i do not have to make dozens of posts talking about each of us.

Helltanis

June 25th, 2020, 03:40 AM

Anyway if there are investigators let investigators invest and I pay attention to suspicious behaviour. There shall be justice

Auwt

June 25th, 2020, 03:42 AM

Day lasts 48 hours. Another small lie.

Okay my bad on this, didnt see the "1" in day column
Btw what are you refering to by saying this ?

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 03:42 AM

:facepalm:
Guys, can we please stop answering Martin’s dumb question?

He have set up conversation and let us to the point where you can put some conclusions.
I appreciate that.

Helltanis

June 25th, 2020, 03:45 AM

Yo Dallarian you feeling suspicious now? Hehe

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 03:47 AM

Okay my bad on this, didnt see the "1" in day column
Btw what are you refering to by saying this ?

I am refering to my post #76 where I quoted, that Martin lied about amount of people needed to lynch someone.
Martin's post is somewhere between page 2 and 3.

Such small things can confuse our new players, everyone please avoid that.
However, calling everyone a lier isn't probably the best thing for me.
I am sorry.
Auwt MartinGG99

Helltanis

June 25th, 2020, 03:48 AM

Ah I just wait for a mentor...

Auwt

June 25th, 2020, 03:51 AM

Such small things can confuse our new players, everyone please avoid that.
However, calling everyone a lier isn't probably the best thing for me.

Those "small things" could and will probably make a difference between a true townie and a true scum.
Be sure that I will look on "small things" as much as I can, even if I'm confusing new players.

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 03:54 AM

Those "small things" could and will probably make a difference between a true townie and a true scum.
Be sure that I will look on "small things" as much as I can, even if I'm confusing new players.

I wish we were masons together.

Helltanis

June 25th, 2020, 03:58 AM

I d be survivor that way I can get clues if evildoers and possible townies were I could possibly side with

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 03:58 AM

Ah I just wait for a mentor...
Don't wait, play with us, interact, write your thoughts.
You can start by answering Martin's question from page 1, or saying your thoughts about what happened on pages 1-4.

SuperJack

June 25th, 2020, 04:14 AM

I am Helltanis I ve been summoned here to bring the hell fleet to the heavens and execute all those who oppose me and my fellow citizens so that justice may be served

Helltanis

Editing a post is not allowed in the game.

Ash Lael

June 25th, 2020, 04:18 AM

Hey, dumb question. How do I give myself an avatar?

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 04:19 AM

Helltanis

Editing a post is not allowed in the game.
Is it possible to return the post to it's primar state by Moderator or Administrator? @SuperJack

Ash Lael

June 25th, 2020, 04:27 AM

Hey, dumb question. How do I give myself an avatar?

Ok, got it.

SuperJack

June 25th, 2020, 04:33 AM

Is it possible to return the post to it's primar state by Moderator or Administrator? @SuperJack

Will have to work with an Admin to check ^^

Zedus

June 25th, 2020, 04:40 AM

Hey, dumb question. How do I give myself an avatar?

Btw, noone else using his real photo as avatar, only me. Looks like each of you has something to hide, except me. That's highly confirms me as town :)

Auwt

June 25th, 2020, 04:41 AM

Btw, noone else using his real photo as avatar, only me. Looks like each of you has something to hide, except me. That's highly confirms me as town :)

Fair enough.

bakermir

June 25th, 2020, 04:49 AM

Okay I will be away for a while so this is my reads so far;

1. Auwt
Having a reserved approach but also given a hint of town. Need to see contribution to town play. Could be any role. null for now

2. Renegade
Seems to be okay so far. Noticed the oddity with Martin but didn't vote him up. Need more from him. null

3. Dallarian
It appears to me that he successfully changed topic and distracted everyone off Martin's very sketchy messages and focused on his "little game" instead. Also, most of his messages give a hint of town power and town way of thinking, but this doesn't change the fact that he is protective of Martin. Just looks like Dallarian is ready to vote anyone up here except Martin. There is something wrong here.

He is in between null and scum.

4. MartinGG99
Some things were said about him. But we can't deny the fact that he started the role discussion, tried to lead town from start, conflicting messages, wants to random lynch by the end of day and shown scum reflex.

I am also heavily disturbed by the fact that we have 2 mafias alive and Martin is being slow voted.

Hiding information doesn't help town. We need information on wolves. It will give us a lot of leads for the future.

biggest scum read here. i believe he needs to be trialed today as soon as possible.

5. Helltanis
I truly believe he is new. Still need more town input from him. null.

6. Zedus
Pointed out another sketchy detail about Martin. He is good in my eyes for now. town read.

7. Grakylan
His entrance was a mess. Changed his play entirely as soon as he got attention. That is quite scary. Not to sure what to make of but null for now.

8. Ash Lael
Understands sheep and wolf mentality. Every time I read their observations, I can't find anything wrong. Legit townie so far.

bakermir

June 25th, 2020, 04:55 AM

Btw, noone else using his real photo as avatar, only me. Looks like each of you has something to hide, except me. That's highly confirms me as town :)

I am using a real photo too ^^

Ash Lael

June 25th, 2020, 05:06 AM

I am also heavily disturbed by the fact that we have 2 mafias alive and Martin is being slow voted.

Hiding information doesn't help town. We need information on wolves. It will give us a lot of leads for the future.

Can you explain a bit what you mean by this? Are you saying that we should speed-lynch him rather than taking time to discuss?

bakermir

June 25th, 2020, 05:08 AM

Can you explain a bit what you mean by this? Are you saying that we should speed-lynch him rather than taking time to discuss?

More like speed-trial rather than "lynch".

Zedus

June 25th, 2020, 05:11 AM

I am using a real photo too ^^

Lie! :D

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 05:13 AM

Uuuugh. I didn’t really like the answer - seemed too thought out or something? I dunno, was having a hard time putting it into words. Like not horrible but not really what I would have expected from town and I wasn’t sure whether I was overthinking it or there was actually something fishy there.

But this unprompted “clarification”? I hate it. It reeks of wolfy self-consciousness.

I came close to unvoting you a couple of times but right now I feel glad I didn’t.

Personally, I was trying to see whether if people thought that was a bad thing or a good thing. I mean, earlier you pushed me because my question wasn't self-conscientious or self-aware. However, through all of this, I intend to be brutally honest about myself, both in-game aspects and out of game aspects. I think we should all consider that, once again, I was the only one to post a question for people to react to at the start. I'm a noob, and I was nervous that this game could go wrong, so I wanted to be proactive as possible and provoke debate within the town early on to ensure there's discussion. I'm quite glad Dallarian and Auwt answered the question, but I'm not sure if I can read them since I've explained the question now. And while I appreciate Dallarian's efforts in agreeing with me, I also intend to be aware of whoever tries to pocket me this game.

That's some clever experienced guy stuff, isn't it?
Fear not, saying you need 4 votes to lynch someone is a lie, but just a small one. You are not in any danger yet. You need 5 votes to lynch, and your self vote doesn't count.

Also, what I meant is that we needed 4-votes before I'm vulnerable to a single scum hammer vote. It wasn't intended to be a lie (or perceived as such). I evaluated that for practical purposes that we shouldn't put me at 4 votes right now for the sake of prolonging the day before I get lynched.

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 05:15 AM

Also, to reiterate to all whom it may concern, I felt lynching someone today (regardless if it be me) may be the town's best option since the TPR's probabilities of impacting the mafia or getting leads on night 1 is rather low, while the mafia nearly have a 50/50 chance of killing one of the TPR's tonight.

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 05:19 AM

Don't wait, play with us, interact, write your thoughts.
You can start by answering Martin's question from page 1, or saying your thoughts about what happened on pages 1-4.

Quick note to Everyone, you can change the # of posts you see per-page in your account settings, under general settings. For example, Dallarian is mentioning page 4, but for me right now that's page 3.

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 05:22 AM

Ash Lael

June 25th, 2020, 05:28 AM

Personally, I was trying to see whether if people thought that was a bad thing or a good thing. I mean, earlier you pushed me because my question wasn't self-conscientious or self-aware.

Uh, no, I did no such thing.

I pushed you because your question was dangerous for town and I thought you were intelligent and thoughtful enough that you should have seen that. But that’s very different from being self-aware.

Being self aware does not mean being thoughtful. It means being overly conscious and concerned about your own appearance - as you would be if you were a wolf trying to impersonate town.

You’re smart enough that you shouldn’t need to have that distinction pointed out to you, frankly. It doesn’t inspire faith in your motives.

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 05:39 AM

Uh, no, I did no such thing.

I pushed you because your question was dangerous for town and I thought you were intelligent and thoughtful enough that you should have seen that. But that’s very different from being self-aware.

Being self aware does not mean being thoughtful. It means being overly conscious and concerned about your own appearance - as you would be if you were a wolf trying to impersonate town.

You’re smart enough that you shouldn’t need to have that distinction pointed out to you, frankly. It doesn’t inspire faith in your motives.

Im not calling anyone stupid here when I say thins, but sometimes ingenuity is present in stupid decisions that are done in line. Sometimes you need to be smart enough, but not a bit more than smart enough, in order to unknowingly do dangerous things. Now, im not proclaiming myself to be stupid, but I would like to argue that that my inexperience can or is impairing me. To study something is one thing, applying it can be another. However in spite of that, I continue to try my best at discussion because it is the best tool the town has, and also because, as I mentioned earlier, I do like being social in a game of debates. Honestly, every post is something I get conflicted about and have to decide to listen to my anxieties or nervousness or not because it is my first game. They tell me to be quiet and to accuse others when they show flaws, in order to find the scum, but i don't want to listen to that. I want to be proactive, and to overcome the emotional challenges it takes in order to get more experience. Unfortunately, that means i'll be making some bad decisions or bad questions. But at least I can try to learn from them. I've made myself vulnerable in order to become better at this, hopefully so to prevent any pointless attention (that was caused by me) against me, a townie.

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 05:42 AM

Corrections to previous post:

"..when i say this"

"...Done in Life"

Zedus

June 25th, 2020, 05:45 AM

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 05:51 AM

I will try to post my thought toward each of you later in the day.
I've already got some ideas who could be what alignment/role.

Also confirming someone as townie and building your play around that person probably may work. Just make sure to exclude Auwt, bakermir, Dallarian and Renegate from that list.

You should be watching for behaviour patterns and who act suspiciously. I will write more on that later. Cannot spoil you everything at once.

I'm quite curious as to what Dallarian and Auwt have to say later today, and whether "when" depends on one of them speaking before the other on their reads. Interesting openings from both.

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 05:59 AM

MartinGG99 you literaly offer lynch someone, who will be 77% town, because "mafia have 50% chance to kill important town role", lol. You pretending to be "smart" with math, but offer stupid and dangerous action for town.

You cant night kill a mafia unless you're vigilante or veteran. Or a smart jailor. Currently there's only about a 33% ( 1 - ( 14 / 16 ) ^ 3 ) chance just one of them exists. And they only got one activation. Also, this is directly taken from the new player guide at:
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/45499-New-FM-Player-s-Guide?p=828654#post828654

One of the main differences with the mod is the nearly constant presence of Citizens, and a lesser amount of power roles. However, it does not mean that the Town is less powerful than on the mod; the Town simply proceeds differently to win.

On the mod, most of the informations gathered come from "leads" given by night actions. In FM, they almost always come from day chat. The reason is simple : having 48 hours per day phase to debate, asking for explainations and being able to efficiently pressure people for them, and looking at the thread (which is like looking at the chat log on the mod) are all efficient ways to scum hunt.

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 06:01 AM

If anything, suggesting a no-lynch is a poor play, in my opinion, unless the town is seriously conflicted over who the vote by the EoD.

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 06:43 AM

Currently there's only about a 33% ( 1 - ( 14 / 16 ) ^ 3 ) chance just one of them exists.

Apologies, I was double checking my math here and its incorrect. The chance of having *a* jailor, vigilante, or veteran is actually 46% ( 1 - ( 13 / 16 ) ^ 3). I accidentally calculated for cases where I wanted to know the chance of at least one of two roles will exist at least once from 3 Town Any's.

Auwt

June 25th, 2020, 07:12 AM

Apologies, I was double checking my math here and its incorrect. The chance of having *a* jailor, vigilante, or veteran is actually 46% ( 1 - ( 13 / 16 ) ^ 3). I accidentally calculated for cases where I wanted to know the chance of at least one of two roles will exist at least once from 3 Town Any's.

Math is good at some point but it wont lead to anything in that case ^_^

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 07:20 AM

Let me explain why I have defended Martin.

In the beginning of the game, Martin has began a question I find off-top and neutral to the game itself. The question have pushed us into content and conversation. Before start of the game I was afraid we would have difficulty in establishing conversation at all and we would end up having low activity and no information.
After 7 hours of the game I believed Martin was put at L-2 (he was actually at L-3), with contribution to the game from 5 players total, and 2 players haven’t said a word yet. With Zedus contribution and if Grakylan’s vote was correct, Martin would be put at L-1 after 11 hours of game. Hammering him would be easy at that point.
We gained and are still gaining information from this day and I believe it would be waste if we lost 75% of the day due to speed lynch. I am happy I convinced Ash Lael to temporary remove his vote on Martin in order not to finish day and I find it my personal first small victory in mafia.
Some may not know yet, but if Martin is voted by total of 5 people the day ends automatically. There is no trial like in mod mafia.
It doesn’t mean I trust Martin.

In this situation uwu, I found defending Martin beneficial, regardless of his aligment.

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 07:21 AM

Math is good at some point but it wont lead to anything in that case ^_^

True. But I thought it might help guide our feelings and thoughts as to what the town should do. Obviously, i'm on the boat that says to figure out who to lynch, and that it should be someone, today. Can't rely on TP's if its 50/50 that they'll just get killed tonight, or the low chances for each TPR to learn something or do something useful the next night phase. The only excuse really is jailor, who can only work without a lynch. But by the time we ascertain we have a jailor, its likely they've already revealed and that would be unfortunate as they would be night killed.

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 07:23 AM

For all future references, whenever I say "day" here, I am generally referring to the day phase unless I specifically state something in regards to my availability. I keep forgetting to add that phase or IRL day specification to my posts >.<

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 08:11 AM

How does everyone feel about the game state right now?

Given that I don't have much experience, I can't say much. I'm quite glad I generated a fair bit of discussion with the controversies I've created, though they originally weren't intended to be controversial. But discussion is discussion, and that's good. Personally I feel the reads we have are a bit lackluster, I mean in terms of how many of us have given reads so far. That would be me, Ash Lael (who has actually given two so far), bakermir, and Renegade. Although, i understand if some of us had to wake up only to go to work quickly and therefore didn't have much time to spend on this forum. As personal policy, I'm not going to hold it against anyone for posting or posting in low amounts except in very exceptional circumstances.

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 08:12 AM

Correction: "Given twice so far/already"

Renegade

June 25th, 2020, 08:54 AM

Damn I almost forgot this exists. Its hard for me to keep track of things.

Anyhow, I'm back and ready to do this. I guess I will do the same shit I do in the mod, random lynch to get info and shit

Auwt

Auwt

Disregard that previous vote. Old habits from the mod where I rando for info. I shouldn't have been too hasty without reading the thread first considering I had to do stuff irl right as the game began. Whoops.

So now the question is wtf is Dallarian doing trying to rando Auwt for being a FM veteran?

Whats more concerning is this is Martin's first FM game and hes already doing AtE with le depression and being a whole ass mathematician.
"My old habit from the mod is to big brain calculate the intricate math behind the save on day 1." Why? Most of us mod players don't do it til we die or its lategame. But its literally the earlygame.

Why are you trying to bring up "muh depression?" Everyone heres kinda an introvert, or was just overwhelmed by how much FM takes, not gonna lie. But depression?

Is he trying to gain our sympathy? Why would he need to do that if he was a power role and could just prove himself eventually? Its like hes drawing a road map for his potential scum.

Sorry for being brash but I just needed to bring it up.

MartinGG99

Not to mention Dallarian trying to rando someone (mr. Auwt) who "isn't here" at all. Haven't seen a post from him so I could kinda understand wanting to force him to talk...

Maybe just wait a few more hours to see if he speaks up? He could just be busy like I was.

In virtually the same breath, Gray votes Auwt, unvotes, votes Martin, and then chastises Dollorian for voting Auwt.

To sum up my read of the Marino situation, I ultimately do not think an inexperienced scum would be so over the top and out there. Rather, I think those pushing for his lynch currently are strawmanning some early game goofiness from Marino.

His discussion about his own qualms for playing FM seem sincere, but yes I agree the contribution does not help.

Also fun fact:
Imagine 2 Mafias waking up and lynching instantly Martin right now for "reasonable" reasons, saying they read only part of thread and didn't see other votes.
Because Martin is put on 3 votes right now, as far as I remember. If mafia haven't already voted him for his contribution into town play.

I also share this concern from Dollorian. Grakylan do you not realize the gravity of your vote when you cast it, since in your second post with the disregarding of your Auwt vote you say you are basically screwing around initially to get info. So is this vote on Marino screwing around or trying to get real info?

On this point, I can't see Gray's vote in the vote list, and I can't see a post where he unvoted, except the post where he unvoted then voted Marino. Am I missing something?

Renegade

June 25th, 2020, 08:56 AM

Okay, fortunately, they can't do that. Grakylan 's vote doesn't count, since it is in same post with "unvote". I find it a positive thing. (usually you should just vote Martin, and it would take your vote from Auwt automaticly), unless it's some way to bait me.

Oh I missed that my question was answered.

So it seems Gray intended the vote and left but it wasn't applied.

Helltanis

June 25th, 2020, 09:05 AM

Hi hi how you guys doing

Helltanis

June 25th, 2020, 09:07 AM

If you could do anything what would you do?

Renegade

June 25th, 2020, 09:07 AM

Hi hi how you guys doing

What do you think of the Martino situation?

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 09:08 AM

I wanted to post some more content in a few minutes, but Some Game Studio stream has just began, so please excuse me for few hours.

Renegade

June 25th, 2020, 09:09 AM

For the record, since we are discussing our origin stories (Hyperion Cantos anyone?), I am from the Sc2 mafia mod as well. This is my fourth game playing, the other three were Third Line Butterfree, Insanity, and Nightless, if interested. I regularly stir up trouble in the sc2mafia discord server (and in the mod), but do not intend to do that here.

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 09:13 AM

Considering everyone has been here since Zedus has arrived and posted, I thought about my reads a fair bit for everyone.

Town

Ash Lael: I think he's definitely town since he went (comparatively) tooth and nail to question me. Also given reads twice.

Town Lean

Dallarian + Awut: Both of these could have siezed the opportunity to vote me, (or even just pressure me for that matter), but didn't. Also explained the concept of avoiding hammer risks and that lynching ends day.

Null

Bakemir: I might put him on town lean. Primarily because he gave a read.

Helltanis: Most posts are related to the fact that he's new the FM.

Renegade: Im unsure about him. He has given some reads. He hasn't voted me, but in retrospect given the circumstance when he was active I'd say voting me tempoairly might've been more towny, given that only 4 people were there at the time. But who am I to say? It just might be a place/topic to enter endless WIFOM.

Scum Lean

Zedus: Provided, he hasn't posted much. But with his posts all he has done is socialize a tiny bit with no content, and just vote me with only 2 posts explaining why. Also, as I see it, he was implying that a no-lynch was better than any lynch at all. But I could be wrong given that he voted me.

Grakylan: Worse than Zedus in my opinion, only three posts. Also presumably tried to vote me. I don't like how he picks on my reference to depression & me in regards to my response to Ash's question as to what brings me to FM. I think this is completely unrelated to the game at hand. He also self admits being hasty in reading the thread...Is he not seriously considering or analyzing the discussions?

Scum

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 09:15 AM

If you could do anything what would you do?

Considering that "anything" can include an incalculable amount of actions, I'm not sure what I'd do. I would need context or a general reference to something.

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 09:17 AM

I wanted to post some more content in a few minutes, but Some Game Studio stream has just began, so please excuse me for few hours.

I get that, I've been watching the SC2 Dreamhack Summer Masters online tournament that started this week and will go on for a few weeks.

Renegade

June 25th, 2020, 09:28 AM

Based on the performance so far, this seems like the natural lynch to me.

Grakylan

Auwt

June 25th, 2020, 09:32 AM

So here is my thought on everyone way of talking / votes / alignment / role / cooperation
Keep in mind, those are only mine, and might not be the absolute truth.

Martin : A LOT OF POST, some of them interesting, and some are just math stats. Being bussed, lead early discussion, I feel a bit of panic tho, but not a scum one, I feel he is a Citizen (medium town read)

Is he trying to gain our sympathy? Why would he need to do that if he was a power role and could just prove himself eventually?

Maybe because Martin just cant.

Ash Lael : Good amount of post, very complete from what I've seen. Ash was part of the vote train on Martin, the reason was kinda strange for me tho,even if I understand Ash pushed Martin cause of Martin's post asking for prefer role. Then unvoted on Dallarian's demand. Slight town read, I have no idea of your role.

Grakylan : Not many post, a messy entry, into randomly voting me then unvote. I feel like Grakylan is just powerless right now.
Slight Citizen read for me.

Helltanis : Currently Unreadable for some reason.

Dallarian : Obviously a rebel, and a scum wtf. Jokes apart, Dallarian is softly defending Martin, but there hasnt been much interactions between them, his posts were decent, but I find some of Dallarian speech a bit weird, here are my worries

I am not as evil as someone, to keep my vote on them for all the day.
Auwt

Trying to look less evil with this post? I find that strange. And also apparently doesnt want to be stuck into "small things"

Such small things can confuse our new players, everyone please avoid that.

But overall Dallarian has also been leading the discussion quite well. Null read. I do not know the role tho but I dont think he is Citizen at all, he knows he can bring something.

Renegade : Not much post to work with, only reacted to others earlier. Very slight scum read. Expected a bit more post still.

bakermir : I didnt like much the way he attacked Martin. Bakermir followed Ash blindly and early on the Martin's vote without saying anything just after Ash brought his thought. Medium/Heavy scumread.

MartinGG99

Zedus : Second post directly attacking Martin (first post was : "Well I'm here"). And I dont believe math/stats are really favoring Martin as a scum more than a desesperate townie with the most vote on him. Medium/Heavy scumread as well.

MartinGG99 said a lot of "stats" to make town lynch someone. But all his arguments make no sense, although they look impressive to someone. There is only one weighty argument - the result of a d1 random lynch with a 77% chance will be the death of one of the townies. So there is NO REASON for townies be lynch-happy d1. That's why MartinGG99 is most likely evil. And he just want to kill one townie before n1 to make mafia win easier.

MartinGG99

To conclude :

Just wanted to point out some facts that are aimed for EVERYONE :

Okay I will be away for a while so this is my reads so far;

2. Renegade
Seems to be okay so far. Noticed the oddity with Martin but didn't vote him up. Need more from him. null

6. Zedus
Pointed out another sketchy detail about Martin. He is good in my eyes for now. town read.

Fact 1 ) Renegade and Zedus are both in my scumlist as well as bakermir atm.
We should really watch for them.

Fact 2 ) Please if you leave someone as "null", explain a bit more because this could be likely seen as a scum friend hiding.

Fact 3 ) I saw some of you are scared of someone hammering. Be sure that if someone do so, this person will have to explain and have A/SEVERAL GOOD REASON(S)

Fact 4 ) Lets talk about those math/stat thingies : I heard some of you say "Yeah, there are 77% that a town get lynched..." and so on...
Thats why we are here, to decrease this 77%. By looking for clue in everyones speeches.
So please remember that its good for everyone to know this but focus more on the game than those math thing.

And considering the early Martin's question toward each of us (asking for our best role), this doesnt mean anything from me except starting the discussion.
In the past newbie game held on this forum,and generally, people asking early questions tends to end up being townie at the end. I can link you if needed, just ask me.

Fact 5 ) I didnt believe we would be close to page 10 before mid-day 1 (ingame) wow. Congrats.

Anyway I'm done for the moment. Here were my thoughts.

Renegade

June 25th, 2020, 09:35 AM

Auwt, you are hard defending Marino, but say Grak leans citizen to you yet Grak jumped in voted marino and jumped out.

Something doesn't add up to me here.

Auwt

June 25th, 2020, 09:46 AM

Auwt, you are hard defending Marino, but say Grak leans citizen to you yet Grak jumped in voted marino and jumped out.

Something doesn't add up to me here.

I am hard defending Martin because he doesnt look scum to me at all, the scum attack on him wasnt properly organised, some vote were thrown like : why not lol?

I know that the early Grakylan's posts werent that convincing, but please try to be at Grakylan's place.
What would a Citizen that is not used to play Citzen do in -Mafia- ?

This Citizen would just random and pray, since they feeling they cant do anything at night.

Thats why I do not seriously take Grakylan's vote on me and Martin.

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 09:49 AM

I am careful with naming people I can trust and I have habit from modded mafia of trusting only people who are supported by lws, so I find it difficult to townread anyone. I am not even sure if I get the idea correctly. Most of below are more opinion than actual read.

1. Auwut is a strong player I need more information him. If he is tOwOn he will try to lead a bit more in the future, unless he protects himself. I need to see where it goes first.

2. Renegate sees and observes and asks right questions. Is likely to be Townie.

3. bakermir doesn’t have my trust. He’s clever and he want to see Martin dead as soon as possible, what openly opposes my opinion and is suspicious for me. He can quickly become town leader and lead us to victory after Martins turns out to be scum, but can be also clever scum trying to focus attention far from mafia. Calls lynch “trial”, to confuse modded players and let them think that their vote doesn’t kill? I have no opinion on his aligment yet, both his town and mafia players sometimes look scummy.

4. MartinGG99
I am also heavily disturbed by the fact that we have 2 mafias alive and Martin is being slow voted.
biggest scum read here. i believe he needs to be trialed today as soon as possible.

4. It was hard for me to see what you all have against Martin, but then I found out that he asked his question very early, as If he was afraid we will begin some different topic. It wasn’t reaction to low activity or warmup for everyone.
This convinced me his behaviour was suspicious. I wonder how much “being inexperienced” plays role here. Still need to read a bit more.

5. It’s too early for my opinion about Helltanis. It would be easier to make read about SJ...

6. Zedus easily follows train on Martin, manipulated Martin’s post to suggest that Martin want to random lynch and then tries to lynch Martin for that reason. Looks like he tried to look for any reason to lynch Martin. Looks like Mafia member.

MartinGG99there is NO REASON for townies be lynch-happy d1. MartinGG99

7. I can judge Grakylan only for his 3 posts. Easily accusses a lot of people. His behaviour turns on alarms in my head. I wonder if he will do anything before lynch. I am unsure who looks more scummy, Zedus or Grakylan.

8. Ash Lael just like Renegate, a bit more active. Doesn’t rush and asks questions that should be asked. Seems to be Town.

Zedus

June 25th, 2020, 09:59 AM

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 10:02 AM

Scum Lean

Zedus: Provided, he hasn't posted much. But with his posts all he has done is socialize a tiny bit with no content, and just vote me with only 2 posts explaining why. Also, as I see it, he was implying that a no-lynch was better than any lynch at all. But I could be wrong given that he voted me.

Zedus : Second post directly attacking Martin (first post was : "Well I'm here"). And I dont believe math/stats are really favoring Martin as a scum more than a desesperate townie with the most vote on him. Medium/Heavy scumread as well.

6. Zedus easily follows train on Martin, manipulated Martin’s post to suggest that Martin want to random lynch and then tries to lynch Martin for that reason. Looks like he tried to look for any reason to lynch Martin. Looks like Mafia member

Alright, so it isn't just me who suspects Zedus.

Auwt

June 25th, 2020, 10:08 AM

The more I read this, the more I understand how serious the logic problems are for half of the players ...

In the case MartinGG99 will not be lynched (he still can be very dumb town, not evil, so lynching him is some risk), I ask investigating roles to keep eye on him and his defenders. His "math" is total anti-town bullshit. Maybe he just have some problems with counting, maybe. But I prefer to think that this is an attempt to confuse everyone. Random lynching d1 is WORST thing town can do. That's why d1 lynch impossbile in most mafia games, IRL or Arcade. Well, at least, lycnhing Martin will not be random.

Btw, if one of mafs will be jailed/roleblocked, they cannot kill? How does it works here?

You were and still are part of the train, just saying.
I totally agree, but looks more like a lost Citizen than a scum trying to fool the game discussion
I do not agree on this. We should lynch someone, at least one of them that look scummier to most of us.
Its indeed impossible because in most mafia games, there are no citizen, and the day phase doesnt last 2 IRL day, I assume with 2 irl days, we are ready to make an opinion on each of us. That cannot be done in the usual 20 seconds D1 on the mod.

Explain please. You seem to have pretty good reason(s).

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 10:09 AM

Random lynching d1 is WORST thing town can do. That's why d1 lynch impossbile in most mafia games, IRL or Arcade. Well, at least, lycnhing Martin will not be random.[/I]

As part of a habit due to a feature from Starcraft II's mod -Mafia-, I took note of certain role chances and etc. Here's some of them.

KEEP IN MIND THAT MOST OF THESE ARE VERY IN-GENERAL AND NOT CASE SPECIFIC

--------------

Mafia has a 42% (3/7) chance of killing a town power role this night, and another 42% (3/7) chance of having the non-killing role
target a TPR (assuming all Town Any aren't Citizen).

Town power roles with targetable abilities each only have a 25% (2/8) chance of targeting a mafia tonight.
Collectively, that means a 57.8% (1-(6/8)^3) chance that at least one of the TPRs will target a mafia this night.

Doctor/Bodyguard has 12.5% (1/8) chance of healing/guarding the mafia kill target, assuming the Doc/BG isn't the mafia kill target.

Detective has a 12.5% (1/8) chance of tracking the mafia who goes to kill.

Jailor has a 25% (2/8) chance of jailing a mafia, but keep in mind the other mafia can just kill for them.

Mason/Crier can't target anything, and considering Mason cannot convert, Mason is worth less than crier unless double roll.

Escort has a 25% (2/8) of hitting mafia, but also has 25% (2/8) to hit a TPR, and 12.5% (1/8) within the first 25% to hit the killer.

Assuming Veteran is visited while on Alert, there is a 50% (2/4) chance that they are mafia. Lookouts aren't immune to veteran.

Obviously, Cororner, Mayor, and Marshall can't target mafia but they have their obvious uses in their abilities.

We can skip lynching people, but based on the information above, I suggest we don't. In which case, I hope we can come to a
consensus by the end of this day phase on who to lynch.

I never suggested that we random lynch. Only that we lynch. There's a very distinct difference in lynching and random lynching. The only thing making this a non-random lynch, as you've proposed it, is the fact that you disagreed with lynching because you felt it was more likely to get a town, and that you believe im scummy.

Zedus

June 25th, 2020, 10:09 AM

Zedus easily follows train on Martin,

Train? You mad?

manipulated Martin’s post to suggest that Martin want to random lynch
Manipulated? He definitely said just that. He wants to d1 random lynch, and made fake (or just stupid) explanation why this will be good for town. But this will be good only for evils. Once more, maybe he is not evil, maybe he is just stupid a bit, and realy don't understand math. But the next reason why I am convinced that he is a villain is that when I broke all his “math” with an undeniable argument, he didn’t even answer anything to me. If he were just stupid, he would argue about that, and I could point out to his errors. But he just ignored that argument. that lynching d1 is 77% chance or -1 townie before mafia even starts to act. That's why he is most suspicious now, same as his defenders, who have no arguments to defend him at all. Like you.

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 10:11 AM

Btw, if one of mafs will be jailed/roleblocked, they cannot kill? How does it works here?
If mafia is jailed, then I guess the second member will do night kill.
If person who is trying to kill gets RBed, I guess no kill happens.

In the case MartinGG99 will not be lynched (he still can be very dumb town, not evil, so lynching him is some risk), I ask investigating roles to keep eye on him and his defenders. His "math" is total anti-town bullshit. Maybe he just have some problems with counting, maybe. But I prefer to think that this is an attempt to confuse everyone. Random lynching d1 is WORST thing town can do. That's why d1 lynch impossbile in most mafia games, IRL or Arcade. Well, at least, lycnhing Martin will not be random.

I believe it's possible to find mafia member d1 and lynch it. Well, that's exacly what happened the previous game (poor Ganelion). Also, in this setup we can afford mislynch. The most important thing is to gain information and learn from our mistakes.

I wonder why you tried to manipulate Martin's post. Would you like to explain that to me?
Zedus

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 10:11 AM

I never suggested that we random lynch. Only that we lynch. There's a very distinct difference in lynching and random lynching. The only thing making this a non-random lynch, as you've proposed it, is the fact that you disagreed with lynching because you felt it was more likely to get a town, and that you believe im scummy.
Please don't use that dark purple. I almost can't read it.

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 10:12 AM

Btw, if one of mafs will be jailed/roleblocked, they cannot kill? How does it works here?

The first post of this thread has a link to the setup. All mafia members can elect to not do their night ability (such as a consigliere checking someone) in order to carry out the kill. Considering there's a 24 hour night chat, the fact that one of them was jailed would quickly become obvious. The next action for the non-jailed mafia would be to kill, obviously.

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 10:13 AM

Please don't use that dark purple. I almost can't read it.

Sorry. I thought I could read it easily. Apologies about that. You should be able to highlight the text with your cursor though.

Zedus

June 25th, 2020, 10:14 AM

I never suggested that we random lynch. Only that we lynch.
Lynching d1 can be only random. Well, except lynching someone like you, who offering this terrible move. But it's ok for me not to lynch you, just check. And if you will appear as town, just ignore you for next days, as person with bad game undestanding, who can easy misslead people.

Zedus

June 25th, 2020, 10:19 AM

I wonder why you tried to manipulate Martin's post. Would you like to explain that to me?

Sorry, do you can read? Try to read again then. What do you still need to be explained?

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 10:19 AM

Dallarian : Obviously a rebel, and a scum wtf.
That's a complement to read these words from your keyboard, my rival.

Trying to look less evil with this post? I find that strange. And also apparently doesnt want to be stuck into "small things"

Basicly I am trying not to get scumread for something like that. I was really surprised when it was used as a valid argument against you.

Zedus

June 25th, 2020, 10:26 AM

you disagreed with lynching because you felt it was more likely to get a town
"Felt"? It's not about feeling. It's math. That REAL math, that lynched one will be most likely townie. 77% chance. Only evil or stupid can offer this shit move for town. Are you evil or stupid? If just stupid, then please, calm down and don't try to lead town to hell with your stupid arguments. But by default, I think that there are no stupids here. If you are not stupid and not evil, why are you so lynch-happy?

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 10:27 AM

Lynching d1 can be only random. Well, except lynching someone like you, who offering this terrible move. But it's ok for me not to lynch you, just check. And if you will appear as town, just ignore you for next days, as person with bad game undestanding, who can easy misslead people.

Suit yourself. But most leads that can lead to the basis for lynches are the day chats. It's stated in one of the new player's guide, and I cited then in post #134.

Zedus

June 25th, 2020, 10:29 AM

Suit yourself. But most leads that can lead to the basis for lynches are the day chats. It's stated in one of the new player's guide, and I cited then in post #134.

And the only strong "chat lead" we have is pointing on you. You were only one who wants to lynch someone d1. According to this, lynching you will make you happy.

Renegade

June 25th, 2020, 10:29 AM

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 10:32 AM

Lynching d1 can be only random. Well, except lynching someone like you, who offering this terrible move.

I am afraid majority may have different opinion about that.

"Felt"? It's not about feeling. It's math. That REAL math, that lynched one will be most likely townie. 77% chance. Only evil or stupid can offer this shit move for town. Are you evil or stupid? If just stupid, then please, calm down and don't try to lead town to hell with your stupid arguments. But by default, I think that there are no stupids here. If you are not stupid and not evil, why are you so lynch-happy?

Are we going to wait till chances of lynching Mafia are higher than 50%? Or do you want Marshall to win the game for you? We do not know if we even have Investigative/Goverment roles, that's important difference from -Mafia-.
We don't need to lynch d1, but it's an opportunity we can use.

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 10:32 AM

"Felt"? It's not about feeling. It's math. That REAL math, that lynched one will be most likely townie. 77% chance. Only evil or stupid can offer this shit move for town. Are you evil or stupid? If just stupid, then please, calm down and don't try to lead town to hell with your stupid arguments. But by default, I think that there are no stupids here. If you are not stupid and not evil, why are you so lynch-happy?

Let me answer this honestly:

There is some basis for not going for a day 1 lynch. I've recently heard from a Podcast on the Mafia Universe Championships (specifically the one review game 6 I believe) where an experienced player stated about 40% of day 1 lynches were mafia. So even with the most experienced players in the world, its difficult to avoid a day 1 mislynch. But I believe and feel a day 1 lynch often yields information on who is likely scum and who is not, thus improving the accuracy of lynches on day 2 and day 3. Otherwise, we can all sit on our buts here and wait for our 3 TPRs to die each night while they have a lesser chance to hit mafia while mafia from night 1 (right off the bat) already have a 42% chance to kill one of our TPRs each night.

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 10:34 AM

Keep in mind im not directly objecting to my lynching so long as we have a discussion about it. Which we are now. And that there is some consensus in lynching me.

Renegade

June 25th, 2020, 10:50 AM

Keep in mind im not directly objecting to my lynching so long as we have a discussion about it. Which we are now. And that there is some consensus in lynching me.

Odd thing to say IMO, self preservation isn't alignment indicative in my opinion.

Renegade

June 25th, 2020, 10:51 AM

For posterity, here are the current votes:

MartinGG99 (2 [L-3]):
bakermir, Zedus
Zedus (1 [L-4]):
Dallarian
Grakylan (1 [L-4]):
Renegade

1 additional vote from Grakylan on MartinGG99 is presumed as well.

Zedus

June 25th, 2020, 10:51 AM

So are you arguing for no lynch? What is with the angst here.?

We had no reason to lynch someone, until Martin starts his trying to misslead town to hell with his Evil Intentions or Glorous Stupidity. It's ignore or lynch for me now for this player. There is a lot of text in forum mafia, better to filter out someone with bad ideas.
If he will not be lynched, he is the primary target for invest roles to check.

Zedus

June 25th, 2020, 10:53 AM

Are we going to wait till chances of lynching Mafia are higher than 50%?
So you are second one lynch-happy?

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 10:56 AM

Helltanis

Any thoughts or feelings on the game so far that you would be willing to share?

Or do you have any questions you would like to ask any of us?

I would appreciate if there was any, as only through discussion can the town hope to succeed in this game. We could try to rely on the Town Power Roles, but the chances of them targeting mafia are kinda low...Too low for me to be comfortable to be sitting around. Hence the need for discussion.

Helltanis

June 25th, 2020, 10:58 AM

Page 1-3

Not much has happened, Martin is asking question and showing people how to vote Ash Lael , questions Martin's methods. Clearly I think it good idea to ask question I have not been hear during page 1evaluation

Helltanis

June 25th, 2020, 10:59 AM

So far I'm just getting my thoughts together to help us as town or the bad guys might get the advantage

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 11:01 AM

So far I'm just getting my thoughts together to help us as town or the bad guys might get the advantage

I see, well thank you very much for your quick response. Feel free to take your time. Just be aware of how much time we have left in the day phase.

Helltanis

June 25th, 2020, 11:09 AM

Helltanis

June 25th, 2020, 11:13 AM

I don't know what to make of auwt,bakmir and renegade at the moment

Auwt

June 25th, 2020, 11:18 AM

Page 4-5

Found some stuff that triggered , Graklyn is on my scum alert because he dosent mind lynching, Dallarain said my the town win and dint include himself makes me think his sus, Martin, Ash l'eau , Zedus seem town so far , I ll make another evaluation soon

Yeah exactly I had the same thought, Dallarian's speech has a lot of non-town inclusive way of talking that's part of why I put him as null read even though Dallarian made some great posts.
Anyway, my current obvious guess are still placed on bakermir/Zedus, I'm waiting to see how this will go, but my vote will probably go on either of them.

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 11:32 AM

Yeah exactly I had the same thought, Dallarian's speech has a lot of non-town inclusive way of talking that's part of why I put him as null read even though Dallarian made some great posts.
Anyway, my current obvious guess are still placed on bakermir/Zedus, I'm waiting to see how this will go, but my vote will probably go on either of them.

To be honest, I'm waiting for Ash Lael or bakermir to return and share their thoughts, if any. Then I might pressure Zedus more for his thoughts on things other than my lynch suggestion. I would like to see their thoughts on the other players here, now that quite some discussion has occured over the past few hours or so.

Renegade

June 25th, 2020, 11:38 AM

I don't know what to make of auwt,bakmir and renegade at the moment

GOOFY

Helltanis

June 25th, 2020, 11:47 AM

[Vote]Graklyn

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 11:49 AM

Graklyn

Its two boxes, the first one doesn't have the / and inbetween the boxes is the username.

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 11:50 AM

goshdarnit that always happens

Helltanis

June 25th, 2020, 11:59 AM

-vote [Grakyln]

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 12:01 PM

-vote [Grakyln]

Helltanis
I found a page, here it is:

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/misc.php?do=bbcode#vote

Zedus

June 25th, 2020, 12:07 PM

Then I might pressure Zedus more for his thoughts on things other than my lynch suggestion. I would like to see their thoughts on the other players here, now that quite some discussion has occured over the past few hours or so.
You take on too much, talking too much and missleading ppl around too much. Maybe you are evil, maybe you are dumb who thinks he is smartest one. In any case I informing you now ignored for me from this moment. I will wait investigation check results on you. Of course, if you will not be lynched. Lynching you will be good for town even if you are town.

SuperJack

June 25th, 2020, 12:14 PM

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 12:20 PM

You take on too much, talking too much and missleading ppl around too much. Maybe you are evil, maybe you are dumb who thinks he is smartest one. In any case I informing you now ignored for me from this moment. I will wait investigation check results on you. Of course, if you will not be lynched. Lynching you will be good for town even if you are town.

Then what is the point of these 48 hours days? I think by having discussion, as much as possible, is a good thing for town. If town isn't meant to talk much unless they have a TPR lead, then why is the first day designed to be as just as long as everything else? Its one of the reason why I post much, even if it leads me to doing dumb things. I also tried my best to think of things for the game before hand, such as those statistics I mentioned earlier.

Ash Lael

June 25th, 2020, 12:35 PM

There will be no editing posts

For the reference of everyone else, I didn’t see what Zedus posted before he edited, but Helltanis’s edited post was originally a flubbed vote attempt on Martin.

SuperJack

June 25th, 2020, 12:44 PM

This is a list of the edit posts so far. Showing the original and then the new version.

Remember peeps. Editing posts is against the rules.

Old:
I am Helltanis I ve been summoned here to bring the hell fleet to the heavens and execute all those who oppose me and my fellow citizens
New:
I am Helltanis I ve been summoned here to bring the hell fleet to the heavens and execute all those who oppose me and my fellow citizens so that justice may be served

Old:
[Vote martin]
New:
Ah I just wait for a mentor...

Old:
You take on too much, talking too much and missleading ppl around too much. Maybe you are evil, maybe you are dumb who thinks he is smartest one. In any case I informing you now ignored for me from this moment. I will wait investigation check results on you.
New:
You take on too much, talking too much and missleading ppl around too much. Maybe you are evil, maybe you are dumb who thinks he is smartest one. In any case I informing you now ignored for me from this moment. I will wait investigation check results on you. Of course, if you will not be lynched. Lynching you will be good for town even if you are town.

Ash Lael

June 25th, 2020, 12:46 PM

So here is my thought on everyone way of talking / votes / alignment / role / cooperation
Keep in mind, those are only mine, and might not be the absolute truth.

Martin : A LOT OF POST, some of them interesting, and some are just math stats. Being bussed, lead early discussion, I feel a bit of panic tho, but not a scum one, I feel he is a Citizen (medium town read)

Maybe because Martin just cant.

Ash Lael : Good amount of post, very complete from what I've seen. Ash was part of the vote train on Martin, the reason was kinda strange for me tho,even if I understand Ash pushed Martin cause of Martin's post asking for prefer role. Then unvoted on Dallarian's demand. Slight town read, I have no idea of your role.

Grakylan : Not many post, a messy entry, into randomly voting me then unvote. I feel like Grakylan is just powerless right now.
Slight Citizen read for me.

Helltanis : Currently Unreadable for some reason.

Dallarian : Obviously a rebel, and a scum wtf. Jokes apart, Dallarian is softly defending Martin, but there hasnt been much interactions between them, his posts were decent, but I find some of Dallarian speech a bit weird, here are my worries

Trying to look less evil with this post? I find that strange. And also apparently doesnt want to be stuck into "small things"

But overall Dallarian has also been leading the discussion quite well. Null read. I do not know the role tho but I dont think he is Citizen at all, he knows he can bring something.

Renegade : Not much post to work with, only reacted to others earlier. Very slight scum read. Expected a bit more post still.

bakermir : I didnt like much the way he attacked Martin. Bakermir followed Ash blindly and early on the Martin's vote without saying anything just after Ash brought his thought. Medium/Heavy scumread.

Zedus : Second post directly attacking Martin (first post was : "Well I'm here"). And I dont believe math/stats are really favoring Martin as a scum more than a desesperate townie with the most vote on him. Medium/Heavy scumread as well.

To conclude :

Just wanted to point out some facts that are aimed for EVERYONE :

Fact 1 ) Renegade and Zedus are both in my scumlist as well as bakermir atm.
We should really watch for them.

Fact 2 ) Please if you leave someone as "null", explain a bit more because this could be likely seen as a scum friend hiding.

Fact 3 ) I saw some of you are scared of someone hammering. Be sure that if someone do so, this person will have to explain and have A/SEVERAL GOOD REASON(S)

Fact 4 ) Lets talk about those math/stat thingies : I heard some of you say "Yeah, there are 77% that a town get lynched..." and so on...
Thats why we are here, to decrease this 77%. By looking for clue in everyones speeches.
So please remember that its good for everyone to know this but focus more on the game than those math thing.

And considering the early Martin's question toward each of us (asking for our best role), this doesnt mean anything from me except starting the discussion.
In the past newbie game held on this forum,and generally, people asking early questions tends to end up being townie at the end. I can link you if needed, just ask me.

Fact 5 ) I didnt believe we would be close to page 10 before mid-day 1 (ingame) wow. Congrats.

Anyway I'm done for the moment. Here were my thoughts.

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

Wtf do you think you’re doing? You are painting targets on our power roles and telling the scum where to kill. I had a problem with Martin’s question but your behaviour here is so much worse. You are actively playing to the scum’s win condition.

It is in town’s best interest for our power roles to stay hidden. Or, if we don’t want that for whatever reason (say we want to coordinate investigations or even just clear three players), they can just roleclaim. This kind of speculation is just doing the wolves’ work for them.

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 01:04 PM

I probably got misunderuwustood and at first I have ignored it, but it may be used against me later in the game.

Page 4-5
Dallarain said my the town win and dint include himself makes me think his sus

Yeah exactly I had the same thought, Dallarian's speech has a lot of non-town inclusive way of talking that's part of why I put him as null read even though Dallarian made some great posts.
At first I had no idea what post are you relating to and I found it difficult to find it. I hope am quoting the correct one:

Hi all gl hf
And may the Town win.

For me it looks and feel natural. I find it fine to say "Let Slavic Team win." in Football, "British shall rule the sky!" in aircraft battle or in 2vs2 unranked "Let the Protoss win!" when both me and my friend are playing Protoss vs some Terran and Zerg combination (or pretty often in mirrors!). I don't feel a need to include myself and clarify to reader that I belong to the group I am mentioning, when I find it obvious the reader will know.

It is probably some English Grammar thing I haven't covered. I will research this further, I do not want to get lynched for such little things, after all.
English is my secondary languange I have begun to learnt pretty late compared to my peers. In case you haven't realised I am not native English, I will treat that as personal complement.

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 01:11 PM

EU activity window is going to close within 1-4 hours, so if you want to engage in discussion in mid of D1, better hurry up. After that window we will have lose discussion as earlier today and decisions shall be made a few hours before end of D1.
bakermir
@Renegate
Ash Lael
Zedus (EU player?)
Grakylan (EU player?)

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 01:12 PM

Failed to annoy Renegade.
Renegade

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 01:14 PM

Maybe you are evil, maybe you are dumb who thinks he is smartest one.

MartinGG99: I really don’t know what to make of this guy. I still don’t like the question and think it’s dangerous for town. I was trying to figure out if he was just a clueless townie earlier, but he’s shown now that he’s definitely not clueless. So he’s either smart town or a smart wolf.

If he’s smart town, it’s all as he says. He disagrees with me that the question could help expose our power roles, and was looking for reactions (and got a few). Ok, fine, fair enough.

If he’s smart wolf the plan was to potentially expose some power roles, while having an “escape hatch” in claiming what he has. Possibly also gain some town cred for later by saying “Hey look, why would I draw attention To myself like that if I was scum?”

He’s definitely got the balls to stare down a couple of votes, and has made the judgement that this play will not get him lynched (correctly or otherwise). So either world is entirely possible. I guess the only alignment indicative part is the question of how likely it is that a smart, thoughtful player doesn’t see the risk to town?

I think... possible but relatively unlikely? He himself even mentioned a possible risk (a power role might avoid answering out of fear), so he’s clearly capable of seeing the risks. Perhaps they didn’t occur to him at first, but he seems like he would have thought this through at least a bit.

I do have something to say to all of this, and i hope it'll everyone have a clearer understanding of me.

The truth is I just like appearing smart. It's difficult to admit but sometimes I have an ego problem it holds me back. For example, sometimes I'd rather be thought of smart and evil, than having made a mistake and Town. I'm working on that, but I hope you don't expect everyone to play perfectly all the time. That standard doesn't exist in the real world. People can be wrong and Town at the same time.

Here's an example:

As a side note, if you're left thinking that I implied that I was evil in response to Ash's question, then allow me to put it in another way: While I am currently posting a lot, that is because I like being social in this game, not because I am Town. Even if I were not Town, I would still like to post a lot because I like being social in this game. I honestly enjoy discussing arguments and the points for them as a matter of life, not because of this game.

Uuuugh. I didn’t really like the answer - seemed too thought out or something? I dunno, was having a hard time putting it into words. Like not horrible but not really what I would have expected from town and I wasn’t sure whether I was overthinking it or there was actually something fishy there.

But this unprompted “clarification”? I hate it. It reeks of wolfy self-consciousness.

When Ash Lael said this, he was right. I was being self-conscious. But not because I was a wolf, but rather I didn't want to become a townie with another mistake made. So I much preferred to clarify it abruptly than to let people attack me for it, even if it made me suspicious.

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 01:15 PM

SuperJack

Someone suggested that previous game. How much roles are random? It is possible to have 7 citizens? Are roles balanced in any way? Can composition Framer+No Invest roles happen?
Do you "reroll" stupid role combinations?

Renegade

June 25th, 2020, 01:15 PM

Renegade

June 25th, 2020, 01:24 PM

I love the abundant use of color, but some of these post are looking like a pride parade which actually may be more confusing...

SuperJack

June 25th, 2020, 01:25 PM

Helltanis

June 25th, 2020, 01:27 PM

So why would Zedus have reaction just from Martin asking the question instead he could of politely decline

Helltanis

June 25th, 2020, 01:28 PM

It seems like theres something hiding through just my theory

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 01:29 PM

I love the abundant use of color, but some of these post are looking like a pride parade which actually may be more confusing...

Well if you're confused by anything I say in that post, please feel free to ask me. I want to be clear about this.

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 01:32 PM

So why would Zedus have reaction just from Martin asking the question instead he could of politely decline

MartinGG99 said a lot of "stats" to make town lynch someone. But all his arguments make no sense, although they look impressive to someone. There is only one weighty argument - the result of a d1 random lynch with a 77% chance will be the death of one of the townies. So there is NO REASON for townies be lynch-happy d1. That's why MartinGG99 is most likely evil. And he just want to kill one townie before n1 to make mafia win easier.

MartinGG99

Helltanis

I think it was Bakermir who had that reaction. Zedus (as seen in-quote) was simply reacting to my suggestion that we lynch someone this day phase. He disagreed, believing we would gain nothing and only lynch a townie.

Renegade

June 25th, 2020, 01:32 PM

So why would Zedus have reaction just from Martin asking the question instead he could of politely decline

I agree. Zebus's reaction is totally out of proportion to what he is losing it over.

How does this help town Zedus? Hint: It doesn't.

Helltanis

June 25th, 2020, 01:35 PM

Imma sleep good luck town by tomorrow hopefully we can make sense of things

Grakylan

June 25th, 2020, 01:55 PM

just so we're clear

Grakylan

June 25th, 2020, 01:56 PM

Grakylan (EU player?)

how many times do I gotta bring up the fact I live in AZ? My sleep schedule is just fucked up due to quarantine.

Grakylan

June 25th, 2020, 01:56 PM

Not gonna pass my vote like its a sorority girl in a fraternity dorm anymore. But heres some observations I made.

Graklyn is on my scum alert because he dosent mind lynching

yea... an old habit from the mod. We're in a game designed to help mod players ease into the game. Old habits die hard.

Explain please. You seem to have pretty good reason(s).

Well, at least, lycnhing Martin will not be random.

seems like hes insinuating a promise.... a promise the town wouldn't like if realized.
But the follow up explanation seems pretty trainy, even if I could kinda agree on it.

He also said "Lynching you will be good for town even if you are town" here: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/46924-S-FM-Summer-2020?p=870084&viewfull=1#post870084
Why is that Zedus ?

I am not as evil as someone, to keep my vote on them for all the day.
Auwt

That's a complement to read these words from your keyboard, my rival.

dallarian is always holding a grudge. What for? Is it something us FM noobs won't be able to understand? What can this mean?

and yes, I'm aware there's no trial. Thats why I constantly flip flop on votes I'm unsure of. I only vote to gauge response. That's why the response below seems problematic.

4. MartinGG99

biggest scum read here. i believe he needs to be trialed today as soon as possible.

Grakylan : Not many post, a messy entry, into randomly voting me then unvote. I feel like Grakylan is just powerless right now.
Slight Citizen read for me.
.

thanks for backing me up, considering I'm really lost and confused. I can understand why people will consider me scum considering I always seem to be asleep or busy when the game really gets going. I know its cliche to say "it just a coincidence" but....

I never suggested that we random lynch. Only that we lynch. There's a very distinct difference in lynching and random lynching. The only thing making this a non-random lynch, as you've proposed it, is the fact that you disagreed with lynching because you felt it was more likely to get a town, and that you believe im scummy.
to be honest tho, any lynch that early in the day gotta be random. But now that the day has progressed a bit, any lynch will be less so.

anyhow that fucked up entrance of mine should signify that I really am a noob. And when I'm accusing Martin, I get that it looks really scummy, but really I'm just throwing around keywords from some noobie guide like monkey see monkey do cuz thats what I see.

sometimes I'd rather be thought of smart and evil, than having made a mistake and Town.

you want to look that way even if you're TPR? Kinda concerning. Everyone makes mistakes, it's natural. And its kinda expected for a new player game.

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 01:58 PM

If he will not be lynched, he is the primary target for invest roles to check.

I will wait investigation check results on you. Of course, if you will not be lynched. Lynching you will be good for town even if you are town.
I dislike the OwO! fact, how as a highly suspicious person you are telling our Town Investigative roles what to do. As if you were trying to control few night actions we have.

If you were Mafia who is aware of Martin's aligment, if Martin is checked tonight (specially after Auwt suggested Martin may be Citizen) you can be sure that Invest roles will waste their night action on him, weakening the town tommorow.

What are your exact reasons to maintain your vote on Martin right now?

Grakylan

June 25th, 2020, 02:00 PM

So my reads so far:

Auwt - i appreciate you backing me up, but you are being a bit contarian to what everyones saying in some regards, especially after me. So town lean.

Dallarian - still holding on to a grudge and targeting a player even after he withdraw his vote on him. Slight scum lean?

Martin - All his high quality posts, math, his self-described ego problem, and AtE suggest either a TPR or scum trying to make himself look all so important.

bakermir - I'm starting to think hes definitely scum.

Zedus - him too, hes scum. Also throwing in the math and dodging questions.

Null on everyone else.

Renegade

June 25th, 2020, 02:03 PM

Renegade

June 25th, 2020, 02:04 PM

And no read on me, despite my vote on you Grakylan?

If you need to see votes, go to the top of the thread and click "vote count".

Auwt

June 25th, 2020, 02:05 PM

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

Wtf do you think you’re doing? You are painting targets on our power roles and telling the scum where to kill. I had a problem with Martin’s question but your behaviour here is so much worse. You are actively playing to the scum’s win condition.

It is in town’s best interest for our power roles to stay hidden. Or, if we don’t want that for whatever reason (say we want to coordinate investigations or even just clear three players), they can just roleclaim. This kind of speculation is just doing the wolves’ work for them.

If you want, we can also be quiet and just randoming people because they ask
"If you were a TPR and could choose any role possible within the setup that is a TPR, what would it be?".

That would be a nice game, as you wish.

Auwt

June 25th, 2020, 02:09 PM

If you want, we can also be quiet and just randoming people because they ask
"If you were a TPR and could choose any role possible within the setup that is a TPR, what would it be?".

That would be a nice game, as you wish.

I understand your concerns Ash, but if no steps are being taken, we will be led to an obvious mislynch and misunderstandment.
Sharing thought and explaining why 'insert a name' is playing like a 'insert a role' is a key so that everyone understand why 'insert a name' did play like this.

Grakylan

June 25th, 2020, 02:11 PM

Graks reads:

Auwt: pocketing me so must be town

I did say only a lean since hes going against what everyone else is saying, even if hes only trying to empathize more than others are.

Everyones is starting to agree on "fuck zebus all my homies hate zebus" tho

Auwt

June 25th, 2020, 02:12 PM

Alright, so it isn't just me who suspects Zedus.

And it opens that kind of thing that would have never happened if we kept being quiet.

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 02:14 PM

So my reads so far:
Dallarian - still holding on to a grudge and targeting a player even after he withdraw his vote on him. Slight scum lean?
Null on everyone else.
I wasn't voted by anyone yet in this game. I am unsure what player you are talking about. Can you explain?

Auwt

June 25th, 2020, 02:18 PM

Graks reads:

Auwt: pocketing me so must be town

Dallarian: must be scum because reasons.

Bakermire: scum

Zebus: scum

-----------------

So who do you think the scum team is?

Tell me your thought Rene, i'm listening.

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 02:23 PM

The truth is I just like appearing smart. It's difficult to admit but sometimes I have an ego problem it holds me back. For example, sometimes I'd rather be thought of smart and evil, than having made a mistake and Town. I'm working on that, but I hope you don't expect everyone to play perfectly all the time. That standard doesn't exist in the real world. People can be wrong and Town at the same time.

There is no use of Town Martin if he's dead for being evil.
It's your goal to help our faction and for that you should survive to contribute.

Well, I made a mistake already as well.

Renegade

June 25th, 2020, 02:25 PM

Tell me your thought Rene, i'm listening.

Hellantis gives off scum vibes in the lay low attempt he has been pursuing. That is what I would expect scum to do d1 in this game.

I need to iso bakemire before drawing further conclusions.

I hate Zebus's boisterous and angsty reaction to Marino. It just doesn't make sense to me. I am concerned that if he is town he is going to obsess over Marino the whole game at the town's expense.

Auwt - I do sympathize with Ash in your pointing out of role guesses not being useful at this time.

Grakylan - his re-emergence hasn't compensated for anything in my opinion. It is clear that he has not voted now, but I am still not sure if he intended the vote on Marino or not.

Ash - probably doing the most work for town at this moment, alongside Dallarion.

Marino - dear marino, such a focal point of day 1. I think his contributions are largely sincere, call me naive. Likely town.

Auwt

June 25th, 2020, 02:29 PM

Random lynching d1 is WORST thing town can do. That's why d1 lynch impossbile in most mafia games, IRL or Arcade. Well, at least, lycnhing Martin will not be random.

Also, if Zedus comes by, is possible to explain this
Clue? Reason? Tell us.

Renegade

June 25th, 2020, 02:29 PM

unvoting

Ash Lael

June 25th, 2020, 02:30 PM

If you want, we can also be quiet and just randoming people because they ask
"If you were a TPR and could choose any role possible within the setup that is a TPR, what would it be?".

That would be a nice game, as you wish.

You’re completely misrepresenting me and you know it. I am not saying keep quiet and lynch randomly. I’m saying speak up, scum hunt, but keep our power roles hidden. It’s not a hard distinction to understand.

I understand your concerns Ash, but if no steps are being taken, we will be led to an obvious mislynch and misunderstandment.
Sharing thought and explaining why 'insert a name' is playing like a 'insert a role' is a key so that everyone understand why 'insert a name' did play like this.

If that’s really what you believed then you should tell us your own role so we can understand your play (note: for the love of God, please do not actually do this).

Renegade

June 25th, 2020, 02:30 PM

Imma sleep good luck town by tomorrow hopefully we can make sense of things

I know you aren't here at the moment, but I'm placing a vote on you. By no means permanent, but I just think you are laying too low and trying to sneak through d1.

Helltanis

Renegade

June 25th, 2020, 02:31 PM

Current votes for future reference:

MartinGG99 (2 [L-3]):
bakermir, Zedus
Zedus (1 [L-4]):
Dallarian
Helltanis (1 [L-4]):
Renegade

Renegade

June 25th, 2020, 02:32 PM

Also, if Zedus comes by, is possible to explain this
Clue? Reason? Tell us.

Zedus said themself that even mislynching Martin would help town. That bothers me.

Ash Lael

June 25th, 2020, 02:34 PM

Hellantis gives off scum vibes in the lay low attempt he has been pursuing. That is what I would expect scum to do d1 in this game.

I need to iso bakemire before drawing further conclusions.

I hate Zebus's boisterous and angsty reaction to Marino. It just doesn't make sense to me. I am concerned that if he is town he is going to obsess over Marino the whole game at the town's expense.

Auwt - I do sympathize with Ash in your pointing out of role guesses not being useful at this time.

Grakylan - his re-emergence hasn't compensated for anything in my opinion. It is clear that he has not voted now, but I am still not sure if he intended the vote on Marino or not.

Ash - probably doing the most work for town at this moment, alongside Dallarion.

Marino - dear marino, such a focal point of day 1. I think his contributions are largely sincere, call me naive. Likely town.

You seem smart and incisive, so why are your posts always so hedge-y?

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 02:39 PM

I agree. Zebus's reaction is totally out of proportion to what he is losing it over.
How does this help town Zedus? Hint: It doesn't.

Considering everyone has been here since Zedus has arrived and posted, I thought about my reads a fair bit for everyone.
Scum Lean
Zedus: Provided, he hasn't posted much. But with his posts all he has done is socialize a tiny bit with no content, and just vote me with only 2 posts explaining why. Also, as I see it, he was implying that a no-lynch was better than any lynch at all. But I could be wrong given that he voted me.

Zedus : Second post directly attacking Martin (first post was : "Well I'm here"). And I dont believe math/stats are really favoring Martin as a scum more than a desesperate townie with the most vote on him. Medium/Heavy scumread as well.

Is anyone going to join me on vote against Zedus? I find it weird that everyone got on Martin so quickly, and while Zedus is so suspicious and scumread by a lot of people I am the only person voting on him.

Renegade

June 25th, 2020, 02:40 PM

Auwt

June 25th, 2020, 02:40 PM

You’re completely misrepresenting me and you know it. I am not saying keep quiet and lynch randomly. I’m saying speak up, scum hunt, but keep our power roles hidden. It’s not a hard distinction to understand.

If that’s really what you believed then you should tell us your own role so we can understand your play (note: for the love of God, please do not actually do this).

We are not on the same wave length then.
Scum wont fall on our hand by a finger snap.
Push have to be made, role have to be decisive, thoughts have to be confront.
For instance, I couldnt have said Grakylan is just looking weird with the early random vote messy entrance he did.
That wouldnt have changed anything. So I would have legit put Grakylan in null read like you all doing with 50% of the people?
I'm going further.

We have to get to know WHY DID HE DO THIS, and so the role comes up in front of us, only explanation for now.
Our goal is not to shout some random facts that happend during day and then cross our fingers and pray when we vote.

We've got to analyze those facts and try to search for the main reason.
The key word in this is WHY

Renegade

June 25th, 2020, 02:41 PM

You seem smart and incisive, so why are your posts always so hedge-y?

Fair criticism. I am just trying to consider everything (which everyone else is), I'll work on being more straightforward.

Renegade

June 25th, 2020, 02:42 PM

Is anyone going to join me on vote against Zedus? I find it weird that everyone got on Martin so quickly, and while Zedus is so suspicious and scumread by a lot of people I am the only person voting on him.

Zedus is in contention for my vote, rest assured, but I am keeping in on Hellatlantis for now.

Auwt

June 25th, 2020, 02:43 PM

Is anyone going to join me on vote against Zedus? I find it weird that everyone got on Martin so quickly, and while Zedus is so suspicious and scumread by a lot of people I am the only person voting on him.

I will eventually be flip floping between Zedus and bakermir if I vote right now.
I'm really willing to see more (and newer) post from them so I can make sure I get the scummier.

Auwt

June 25th, 2020, 02:44 PM

This is the source, this is extremely hyperbolic. In no way is anything of what martino saying deserving of this. Lynching a town does NOT help town.

I totally agree with you on that point.

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 03:14 PM

Alright I think I got a first attempt at a solve, or a good enough one for now, with my reads.

These people who I am certain 100% , for now, that are town:

Grakylan: It may not look like it, but I think he's absolutely town based on his given read. Look at just how many people he suspects or just leans. It matches the paranoia that can come with being a townie. Or even being AFK for that long due to IRL stuff that he had to deal with. I highly doubt he's scum.

Auwt: He has repeatedly stated many facts that are good to know, just ISO him and he often mentions facts that are relevant. Also he believes I'm town.

Here are my town-lean reads:

Ash Lael: I've said it before, but I think his persistent questioning of me was rather towny. He was pressuring to see how sure I was about my question, and much more. Although...his #100 post supports both Bakermir and Zedus. I might move him down on this list.

Dallarian: He stated and supported the notion of keeping the votes low on me to avoid hammers. He also voted Auwt and got some information from the vote based on someone's reaction. I fully expect Dallarian to object to one of my reads here because of that or jokingly because of Auwt. Second highest poster.

Renegade: He's been rather active, and is the third highest poster. Back when he was present at start, he questioned but did not vote me, and I believe this mimicks towny behavior as with his experience he probably was very aware of hammering. I also haven't found many problems with his posts, and he questioned my opening question/behaviors.

Here who are my Null reads:

Helltanis: He has popped in, and seems to make some effort in trying to participate, while also asking questions. He responded to my pings/mentions rather quickly when I did earlier.

Here are my Scum-Lean Reads (they might as well be scum reads at this point, if all else is correct):

Bakermir: Initially I felt he may have been town since he gave early reads, and questioned me too, but his questioning just felt very vague or open-ended. He hasn't really reacted to the others much. Also, half of his reads are nulls, and only 2 leans, while marking me as full-on scum.

Zedus: This guy has been tunneled on me over some math, and that's preety much all he has ever done. He doesn't seemed concerned in the slightest by others. Also, he seems to believe most lynches on day 1 must be random lynches, and therefore that implies he wants no lynches at all on day 1.

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 03:15 PM

Assuming my reads are 100% correct, then the scum team might be Zedus / Bakermir.

Dallarian

June 25th, 2020, 03:24 PM

Good night.
I have no idea what I will be doing today (26 June) all the day. I may be active just as yesterday, or will be unable to contribute in significant way. I hope you will find something to agree on.

I will leave you with one question.
Is it worth using invest roles on Zedus and Martin?

bakermir

June 25th, 2020, 03:25 PM

I just arrived. Reading on pages and will make a post soon.

MartinGG99

June 25th, 2020, 03:33 PM

I will leave you with one question.
Is it worth using invest roles on Zedus and Martin?

Well, assuming we have invest roles, it might. But honestly, I expect myself or Awut to be night killed and then press on one of our scum reads sometime on the next day phase.

Ash Lael

June 25th, 2020, 03:36 PM

Updated reads list. You know you’ve all been waiting for it.

Auwt - I don’t like this guy and I don’t like his attitude, but I think he’s probably just town. He’s not afraid to go against the flow.

Renegade - Seems perceptive and intelligent but has been avoiding taking firm clear stances. Could easily be scum trying to stay under the radar. Scum lean.

Dallarian - Still feels towny to me.

MartinGG99 - I’m reassessing a bit here. Still quite a bit that rubs me the wrong way about him, but there’s also some things that feel a lot more town-ish. Does a wolf really argue so energetically against a no-lynch d1 while he’s on the block? Plus there’s a lot of other suspicious players, some of which are clearly out to get him, and they can’t all be dirty. I update to maybe 50/50 here.

Helltanis - The flying-under-the-radar thing I said about Renegade applies here too, but even more so. On the other hand I feel like Helltanis is less experienced and has just been less active in general so it might not be as likely to be deliberate. But still. Scum lean.

Zedus - super aggressive push on Martin, which I don’t mind, but the reasoning was thin. As others have noted, simply advocating that town lynch (literally the only tool we have to actually win the game) should not inspire this degree of vitriol. Scum trying to ride the early momentum to take down a townie? Could be. 50/50

Grakylan - Still not happy with this slot. Erratic reasoning and behaviour, doesn’t feel like it’s coming from a consistent town mindset. Probably my strongest scum read at this point.

bakermir - I’ve seen no reason to change my town read of this guy yet.

Zedus

June 25th, 2020, 03:37 PM

Zedus (EU player?)

Don't you see my profile? Or you don't know where is Moscow? :D
Also you should know that Moscow never sleeps. I have no "activity window".

Quit bitching and make a case if you feel so strongly.
It's not "bitching". Ignore someone, who forced himself to lead the town, but not competent enough for that is basic game thing in IRL mafia. Just filter off players like this will save you time and effort.

How does this help town Zedus? Hint: It doesn't.

It does. Then some stupid person with a bloated ego (or just a player with evil role) trying to lead the town, it's better to stop that. If you give him such an opportunity, the consequences for the town will be disastrous.

He also said "Lynching you will be good for town even if you are town" Why is that Zedus ?

Already explained. This player trying to draw all attention to himself, trying to lead (more precisely - misslead) the town, made more posts then everyone. That will be bad for town if such person will lead it. I ignoring all his posts at the moment, because that posts do not contain anything useful and important for the victory of the town. If he will be lynched, town will lost main missleader. Well, bad if he is some important role, but at least noone will follow this missleads. Also it's still high chance that he is evil player, trying to misslead others intentionally. Like 50/50 for me.

fact, how as a highly suspicious person
It's not fact. It's your opinion. You protecting your ally Martin in almost every post, so it's YOU are highly suspicious person. Aren't you?

...are telling our Town Investigative roles what to do.
Better me then someone like Martin. Also, what if I am town investigative?

As if you were trying to control few night actions we have.
As about night actions YOU have, I never called targets for mafia :)

[Dallarian;870107]What are your exact reasons to maintain your vote on Martin right now?[/QUOTE]
Are you trolling or what? I explained my reasons. Nothing changed after that. It's need 5 votes to lynch someone. My vote will be on this missleader until he will be confirmed some way.

Zedus - him too, hes scum. Also throwing in the math and dodging questions.

I told all about "math". 77% of lynching town is any math you should remember. His "math" gives nothing for town. Other means nothing. What "question" am I "dodging"? Ask again, maybe I missed something, but I see no some "dodged questions" from my side.

Also, if Zedus comes by, is possible to explain this
Clue? Reason? Tell us.
I did. This player trying to lead the town. But he is very bad in it. So losing missleader town (or evil, most likely for me after one another player starts do defend him so hard, and also if i were evil, I'll try to lead the town with lots of huge posts too, like he doing) will protect town from higher damage from missleading. Better lose some bad town player (or just evil), then some good one. Also, imagine if he flips mafia, and you will instantly know who is another one, protecting him even from invest checking.

Is it worth using invest roles on Zedus and Martin?
Yes, it is. Use it. I will be happy to be confirmed d2.