The Eternal Conflict (13P)

[Marshmallow Marshall]

The Eternal Conflict

From the depths of Hell, Satan has planned an invasion of Heaven.


Intent behind the Setup
The intent behind this setup is not to paralyze the site for months with a super long game that will be the only one hosted. It rather is to try a new game style, and to have a game running in the background while forum life continues. Players are expected to participate reasonably; the definition of "reasonably" is greatly affected by the phases' lenght. Not posting for a full real life day is perfectly acceptable if you're more busy that one day, but you're expected to be active at some other points in the game day. This game is perfect for those who would like to play FM, but who cannot dedicate enough time each real life day to a game.


Role List

God
TPR Angel
TPR Angel
Human Priest
Angel
Angel
Angel
Angel
Angel
Angel
Satan
Antichrist
Demon


Rolecards


God
You are God, creator of the universe.
You have a one-use smite (day kill) that you may use by PMing the Host at any time during the day; the kill is instantaneous in theory, although the Host will not always be there to make it actually instantaneous, of course. It does not interrupt or end the day. The target's flip is revealed at the end of the day. If the target had placed their vote, they must unvote without posting anything else. This pierces all immunity.
You also have one charge of either seeing someone's real alignment at night or to heal them in the event they would be attacked at night; this means you will only be able to use one of those abilities in the game, and only once.

Human Priest
You are a devout, God-fearing priest who is caught in the crossfire between Heaven and Hell.
While you are alive, you may communicate with the dead during the night in a QuickTopic chat. You may not post more than 7 times in that chat. You can pick your target only during the day. Unlimited charges.
While you are dead, you may communicate with a specific person in a QuickTopic or Discord permanent chat (to be determined by the Host). No post number restrictions. Can be used at any time. One charge.
You cannot be healed.

Angel
You have the power of vote and discussion to serve the Lord, thy God. You would never be sinfully pretentious enough to request more powers than that, after all.

Possible TPR Angels

Angel Knight
You are a loyal knight of Heaven's army.
At night, you may attack a player with your holy might, killing them. Two charges; you lose all charges if you kill a town player. Cannot be used on night 1.
(Friendly reminder that the Antichrist makes all scum night immune until he dies)

Guardian Angel
You are an angel who has mastered the art of healing.
You may heal people at night with your holy light. Does not consume a charge if the target is not attacked. Can self-heal. Cannot target the same player twice in a row. Two charges.
Your target is informed of having been successfully healed. You are not informed of having successfully healed someone. You are informed of having been successfully healed if you self-heal.

Counsellor Angel
You are an old, experienced angel tasked with helping a creation of God.
During the day, you may select a player. You will be able to communicate with them every night as long as you are both alive. They will know who you are. One charge.

Soul Probe Angel
You are an angel gifted with the ability of detecting the power of the Creation in beings of divine essence.
At night, you may check a player to know if they are vanilla (Angel/Demon) or powerful (God, Town Power Role/Satan, Antichrist). Two charges.


Satan
You are Satan, Evil Incarnate.
At night, you may corrupt an Angel (i.e. a town-aligned player), dissolving its divine essence after a day. The target will die at the end of the next night, and knows it as soon as the day starts. God is immune to this. This is not affected by the Guardian Angel's ability. One charge, even night use only.
Alternatively, you may target a player at night by PMing host the role you think that player is. If you are correct, the player will die. This pierces all immunity and protection, and cannot kill vanilla Angels. This shares the one charge the previous ability has (in other words, you can only use one of these abilities per game).
You may only use one ability per night.

Antichrist
You are the Prince of Hell, heir of Satan.
If Satan dies while you are alive, you will become Satan. You inherit of the amount of charges on his abilities he had at the moment of his death (if he had none, you get none).
As long as you are alive, both Satan and the Demon are immune to night attacks.
You are immune to night attacks.


Demon
You are a servant of Satan.
You have the power of voting. Cunglatutashunz.


OoO
1. Satan
2. Soul Probe Angel
3. Angel Knight
4. Guardian Angel
5. Factional Kill


Win Conditions
God & Angels & Human Priest: Eliminate Satan, the Antichrist and the Demon.
Satan & Antichrist & Demon: Obtain a majority of the votes or having nothing preventing you from doing so.


Mechanics
Days last 3 weeks. Nights last 72 hours. That's a big part of the game's uniqueness.
Scum have a factional kill, which is considered as an ability, and a permanent chat. They know eachother at the start of the game. They retain access to their permanent chat when they die, and the scum are allowed to ask them to say things there...
Lynch is plurality + majority.
No last wills or death notes.
Skipping days is forbidden. That's right, you shouldn't ever need to skip in this game lol.
TPRs aren't unique (in other words, there can be more than one Guardian Angel, more than one Warrior Angel, etc.); God, Satan, the Antichrist and the Priest are however unique.
The dead chat is in a Discord server. There are to be no spoilers.
No suicides.


Commandments
Forum Mafia Rules (link) (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/42151-Forum-Mafia-Rules) apply.
The Host reserves the right to replace or modkill any player for any reasonable reason.
You are expected to have reasonable participation in this game. The Host determines what is reasonable activity and what isn't. You should ideally try to chime in every real life day, although you won't be scolded if you miss a single real life day; that's part of the point of the setup.
As town, you are encouraged to remain up to date with the game even when you are dead (for Human Priest purposes).
Out of game communication (OGC) is strictly forbidden. Any form of talk about the game that is not on host-approved communication ways (game thread, night chat, QuickTopics, etc.) is OGC. This includes communication with the dead.
Refrain from personal attacks. Severe or repeated personal attacks will be met with force replacements, at the Host's discretion.



Changelog
Added "Intent behind the Setup".
Gave scum a permanent chat.
Replaced a Demon with LuciferAntichrist.
Added some lore.
Clarified some rolecards.
Added "As town, you are encouraged to remain up to date with the game even when you are dead (for Human Priest purposes)." in Commandments.
Made the Human Priest unhealable to avoid a "follow the medium" strategy.
Made Satan's essence dissolving ability 1 charge instead of 2 for balance's sake.
Gave God his cop-or-doctor ability.
Added a reminder to the Angel Knight that all scums were night immune until the Antichrist dies.
Implemented Satan's anti-PR ability as discussed with Ozy and AIVION.


God
TPR Angel
Angel
Angel
Angel
Angel
Angel
Satan
Demon

Striked text in rolecards means the striked part does NOT apply to the 9P version.

Rolecards


God
You are God, creator of the universe.
You have a one-use smite (day kill) that you may use by PMing the Host at any time during the day; the kill is instantaneous in theory, although the Host will not always be there to make it actually instantaneous, of course. It does not interrupt or end the day. The target's flip is revealed at the end of the day. If the target had placed their vote, they must unvote without posting anything else. This pierces all immunity.
You also have one charge of either seeing someone's real alignment at night or to heal them in the event they would be attacked at night; this means you will only be able to use one of those abilities in the game, and only once.

Human Priest
You are a devout, God-fearing priest who is caught in the crossfire between Heaven and Hell.
While you are alive, you may communicate with the dead during the night in a QuickTopic chat. You may not post more than 7 times in that chat. You can pick your target only during the day. Unlimited charges.
While you are dead, you may communicate with a specific person in a QuickTopic or Discord permanent chat (to be determined by the Host). No post number restrictions. Can be used at any time. One charge.
You cannot be healed.

Angel
You have the power of vote and discussion to serve the Lord, thy God. You would never be sinfully pretentious enough to request more powers than that, after all.

Possible TPR Angels

Angel Knight
You are a loyal knight of Heaven's army.
At night, you may attack a player with your holy might, killing them. Two charges; you lose all charges if you kill a town player. Cannot be used on night 1.
(Friendly reminder that the Antichrist makes all scum night immune until he dies)

Guardian Angel
You are an angel who has mastered the art of healing.
You may heal people at night with your holy light. Does not consume a charge if the target is not attacked. Can self-heal. Cannot target the same player twice in a row. Two charges.
Your target is informed of having been successfully healed. You are not informed of having successfully healed someone. You are informed of having been successfully healed if you self-heal.

Counsellor Angel
You are an old, experienced angel tasked with helping a creation of God.
During the day, you may select a player. You will be able to communicate with them every night as long as you are both alive. They will know who you are. One charge.

Soul Probe Angel
You are an angel gifted with the ability of detecting the power of the Creation in beings of divine essence.
At night, you may check a player to know if they are vanilla (Angel/Demon) or powerful (God, Town Power Role/Satan, Antichrist). Two charges.


Satan
You are Satan, Evil Incarnate.
At night, you may corrupt an Angel (i.e. a town-aligned player), dissolving its divine essence after a day. The target will die at the end of the next night, and knows it as soon as the day starts. God is immune to this. This is not affected by the Guardian Angel's ability. One charge, even night use only.
Alternatively, you may target a player at night by PMing host the role you think that player is. If you are correct, the player will die. This pierces all immunity and protection, and cannot kill vanilla Angels. This shares the one charge the previous ability has (in other words, you can only use one of these abilities per game).
You may only use one ability per night.

Antichrist
You are the Prince of Hell, heir of Satan.
If Satan dies while you are alive, you will become Satan. You inherit of the amount of charges on his abilities he had at the moment of his death (if he had none, you get none).
As long as you are alive, both Satan and the Demon are immune to night attacks.
You are immune to night attacks.


Demon
You are a servant of Satan.
You have the power of voting. Cunglatutashunz.


OoO
1. Satan
2. Soul Probe Angel
3. Angel Knight
4. Guardian Angel
5. Factional Kill


Win Conditions
God & Angels: Eliminate Satan and the Demon.
Satan & Demon: Obtain a majority of the votes or having nothing preventing you from doing so.


Mechanics
Days last 3 weeks. Nights last 72 hours. That's a big part of the game's uniqueness.
Scum have a factional kill, which is considered as an ability, and a permanent chat. They know eachother at the start of the game. They retain access to their permanent chat when they die, and the scum are allowed to ask them to say things there...
Lynch is plurality + majority.
No last wills or death notes.
Skipping days is forbidden. That's right, you shouldn't ever need to skip in this game lol.
TPRs aren't unique (in other words, there can be more than one Guardian Angel, more than one Warrior Angel, etc.); God, Satan, the Antichrist and the Priest are however unique.
The dead chat is in a Discord server. There are to be no spoilers.
No suicides.


Commandments
Forum Mafia Rules (link) (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/42151-Forum-Mafia-Rules) apply.
The Host reserves the right to replace or modkill any player for any reasonable reason.
You are expected to have reasonable participation in this game. The Host determines what is reasonable activity and what isn't. You should ideally try to chime in every real life day, although you won't be scolded if you miss a single real life day; that's part of the point of the setup.
As town, you are encouraged to remain up to date with the game even when you are dead (for Human Priest purposes).
Out of game communication (OGC) is strictly forbidden. Any form of talk about the game that is not on host-approved communication ways (game thread, night chat, QuickTopics, etc.) is OGC. This includes communication with the dead.
Refrain from personal attacks. Severe or repeated personal attacks will be met with force replacements, at the Host's discretion.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Ideas, suggestions and interest showing for this long phases setup would be appreciated :)

[secondpassing]

I'd still play this, but especially if it was a long phase game, I'd hope the roles to have lots of powers, especially the evil faction and God.

Roles seem too weak in comparison to their flavor names. Then there's a random human in the middle of a heavenly hellish war— perhaps you meant a priest for humans? While you're at it, maybe change TPR Angels into Cherub(ium), Seraph(im), or Archangels. Or you could just change the god choices to one of another religion that is not monotheistic.

Days are too long in comparison to nights. Possible solutions are to: give demons a daychat, lengthen the night to a week, grant demons more night actions or more choices in night actions.

Days are too long in comparison to nights and the longer the day and should be balanced accordingly. I'm not sure if you're using a similar setup in accordance to other sites, but if we assume a similar level of activity to our other games just stretched longer, I feel that town has quite the advantage. Remove an angel?

[Ganelon]

Add a post count limit, nobody is EVER gonna read a trillion posts
I’d try to enforce a minimum word count per post as well. This looks like the kind of game where that would be very nice

[naz]

Ideas, suggestions and interest showing for this long phases setup would be appreciated :)

MafiaScum traitor!

[secondpassing]

Also, knowing our playerbase, even if the setup is town-sided. I think town is going to lose :) The combination of information flood, poor information sorting, and a lack of patience will turn this into a four player game really quickly. I don't think the setup should be balanced around this though. May as well make this a three month thing instead of a six month slow death.

[Dallarian]

Very cool idea for the setup.
I will just leave this comment here (I am not the author):

"Day 2 : Everyone is dead IRL"

[Auwt]

Very cool idea for the setup.
I will just leave this comment here (I am not the author):

"Day 2 : Everyone is dead IRL"

I wonder who you referring to :')


Anyway, I feel like 3 weeks are... long,
I'm not that familiar with forum mafia but my guess is :
You may lose some players wilingness throughout the game.
It's an interesting save in any case and I like it a lot !

[theoneceko]

I wonder who you referring to :')


Anyway, I feel like 3 weeks are... long,
I'm not that familiar with forum mafia but my guess is :
You may lose some players wilingness throughout the game.
It's an interesting save in any case and I like it a lot !

yea, 3 weeks. wtf??? ppl play t his?!?!? UwU?!?!?



noU!!!! uWu.

[deathworlds]

I wonder who you referring to :')


Anyway, I feel like 3 weeks are... long,
I'm not that familiar with forum mafia but my guess is :
You may lose some players wilingness throughout the game.
It's an interesting save in any case and I like it a lot !

From what I understand, sc2mafia.com is actually a part of the minority when it comes to cycle length, most sites tend to have their day/night cycles last much longer than the standard 72 hours (48 hour day, 24 hour night) that we often see here.

That being said, three weeks is intimidating as hell

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I'd still play this, but especially if it was a long phase game, I'd hope the roles to have lots of powers, especially the evil faction and God.

Roles seem too weak in comparison to their flavor names. Then there's a random human in the middle of a heavenly hellish war— perhaps you meant a priest for humans? While you're at it, maybe change TPR Angels into Cherub(ium), Seraph(im), or Archangels. Or you could just change the god choices to one of another religion that is not monotheistic.

Days are too long in comparison to nights. Possible solutions are to: give demons a daychat, lengthen the night to a week, grant demons more night actions or more choices in night actions.

Days are too long in comparison to nights and the longer the day and should be balanced accordingly. I'm not sure if you're using a similar setup in accordance to other sites, but if we assume a similar level of activity to our other games just stretched longer, I feel that town has quite the advantage. Remove an angel?

Wowowow, this is still a WIP, don't hit on my lore yet! The lore I put up does not represent my beliefs at all, its point being to entertain and create a story for the game, not to spark a theological debate xD. If an almighty creator exists such as the Christian God, well uh, he doesn't go at war with Satan and lose, he just makes Satan disappear if he wants to... so take this as a "popular culture" good vs evil kind of lore.
As for the human, he's there as a bridge between heaven and hell. You know, something like a Midgard-ish role.

Hmm, I fear that people would not be involved in the game anymore if nights lasted an entire week, but I do think the chat part is an issue. I didn't want to make mafia perma-communicating at first, but I guess there's little reason not to do it. I thought about giving mafia a limited number of messages to eachother per day in a quicktopic, but giving them a permachat would be simpler.

It's not reasonable to assume a level of activity of 500 posts per real life day in such a setup. The point of this setup is to have a game that keeps going while other games come and go, without spam. I don't want to restrict people's posting capacity, though: it's up to them to play according to the setup's spirit. Plus, more time to post also means more time to read, so I don't think that will be an issue. As a reference, you can look at MafiaUniverse's longest game ever (https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/768-The-Longest-Mafia-Game-Ever-Played/page62) to see that it only has 62 pages (3090 posts) after... five years. Note that MU games are usually of a level of activity close to ours.

I see no need to remove an angel. On Mafiascum, the standard is 14 days per game day and two days per game night, and setups are balanced similarly to how they are here, I believe. The rolelist currently follows the general rule of thumb that is:
Number of town slots = 3*Number of scum slots + 1


But yeah, the point of this setup is not to paralyze the site for six months with a super long game that will be the only one hosted. It rather is to keep something to do for a long time, and to try an interesting way to play the game.

[secondpassing]

Wowowow, this is still a WIP, don't hit on my lore yet! The lore I put up does not represent my beliefs at all, its point being to entertain and create a story for the game, not to spark a theological debate xD. If an almighty creator exists such as the Christian God, well uh, he doesn't go at war with Satan and lose, he just makes Satan disappear if he wants to... so take this as a "popular culture" good vs evil kind of lore.
As for the human, he's there as a bridge between heaven and hell. You know, something like a Midgard-ish role.

Hmm, I fear that people would not be involved in the game anymore if nights lasted an entire week, but I do think the chat part is an issue. I didn't want to make mafia perma-communicating at first, but I guess there's little reason not to do it. I thought about giving mafia a limited number of messages to eachother per day in a quicktopic, but giving them a permachat would be simpler.

It's not reasonable to assume a level of activity of 500 posts per real life day in such a setup. The point of this setup is to have a game that keeps going while other games come and go, without spam. I don't want to restrict people's posting capacity, though: it's up to them to play according to the setup's spirit. Plus, more time to post also means more time to read, so I don't think that will be an issue. As a reference, you can look at MafiaUniverse's longest game ever (https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/768-The-Longest-Mafia-Game-Ever-Played/page62) to see that it only has 62 pages (3090 posts) after... five years. Note that MU games are usually of a level of activity close to ours.

I see no need to remove an angel. On Mafiascum, the standard is 14 days per game day and two days per game night, and setups are balanced similarly to how they are here, I believe. The rolelist currently follows the general rule of thumb that is:
Number of town slots = 3*Number of scum slots + 1


But yeah, the point of this setup is not to paralyze the site for six months with a super long game that will be the only one hosted. It rather is to keep something to do for a long time, and to try an interesting way to play the game.


that's the whole game

i cannot force myself to care very much about the game, but it's across the board

if nobody posts nobody cares

if everybody posts everyone cares, but there's not much to talk about

In the game you linked people kind of forgot about the game for weeks on end. Half the people are inactive, and the posts are what I would call low quality. They space their posts out by a week sometimes but only post one sentence. You don't think people are going to post every hour or so at least? Didn't read the whole thing, but skimmed it, and scum seem to be actively lurking. Like, actively, lurking. I actually don't think it's reasonable to assume that a longer phase game played here would be comparable. You might assume that players that have longer day phases would take more time to write their posts, but it's clear in that game it's not happening. How do I know?
-lots of naked votes
-some posts that consist of "."
-one-liners about a sports game
-complaints about people not talking
I think that either sc2mafia has neither the attention span nor the patience to wait a month to post, but maybe people will adapt.

My whole point about the night phases is that I think nights are important for scum. I think many players don't evaluate their night actions until night happens, and a longer night phase lulls town into apathy. You're right though, a night length of a week might get people to forget about the game. You could keep it at three days, you probably have a better view than I do anyway.

Excited.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Some updates were made. Scum have a permanent chat following Secondpassing's feedback.

I fear this game has too many kills, and wonder which ones to keep.
Looking for interactions between TPRs and the remaining demon slots. Perhaps a vanilla cop or a parity cop would be nice, too.

Suggestions or thoughts are still welcome, I didn't forget about this setup's existence, just taking a bit of a break at the moment.

[Ganelon]

Interesting setup you’ve got here.
A few questions:

Is the Guardian Angel informed of successful heal? What about their target?
What would happen if a player died, stopped paying attention to the game, and a human priest tried to talk to them? Would you replace a ‘dead’ player if they were inactive? How would enforce activity for dead players?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Interesting setup you’ve got here.
A few questions:

Is the Guardian Angel informed of successful heal? What about their target?
What would happen if a player died, stopped paying attention to the game, and a human priest tried to talk to them? Would you replace a ‘dead’ player if they were inactive? How would enforce activity for dead players?

Only the target is informed. Updated the setup to reflect this.
You're very right on this point, and I still need to figure that out. Perhaps there could be a dead chat in which the dead must participate at least a bit (without any spoilers or observers of course)? I don't know if it's fair to force people to keep paying attention when they're dead. On the other hand, the game won't be too hard to follow, since the activity will be more spread out over the course of the 3 weeks days.

[BananaCucho]

/pls give me Satan

[BananaCucho]

Where is the anti-vaxxer role

[BananaCucho]

This game exists so that records may be broken

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Where is the anti-vaxxer role

It's there, it's called Human Priest.
Ganelon I think that would be ready for review. As for the part about dead activity, well, I encourage townies to remain up to date with the game when they're dead, but it's not mandatory.

[Ganelon]

Review in Progress

Please specify the wincons. They are nowhere to be found.
Also, can a portal to hell be created at a dead players house? Meaning, can the Human Priest be killed by Satan?
God’s ability is a tad scumsided, owing to the fact that their target’s role is not immediately revealed upon death. I suggest changing it so that the target instantly flips, although this is not a requirement. I think this will be a disincentive for God to use his ability on a player too early on in the day - nobody wants to wait 3 weeks for a flip. So you need to bear that in mind also.
The issue as I see it is that scum have a limited number of night kills (with Satans primary ability even having two charges). I suspect you prefer keeping the X-shot nature of his ability more than the fact that it can only be used every two nights, so I suggest removing the latter restriction on Satan’s ability.
Other than that, right now it seems fine.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Review in Progress

Please specify the wincons. They are nowhere to be found.

Oops, I blame the unholy amount of times my internet failed me for this, had already tried to add it :(. Done.


Also, can a portal to hell be created at a dead players house? Meaning, can the Human Priest be killed by Satan?

No. I don't want the Priest to be afraid to use his ability. Updating it to be "living" players.


God’s ability is a tad scumsided, owing to the fact that their target’s role is not immediately revealed upon death. I suggest changing it so that the target instantly flips, although this is not a requirement. I think this will be a disincentive for God to use his ability on a player too early on in the day - nobody wants to wait 3 weeks for a flip. So you need to bear that in mind also.

Since God can confirm himself by doing so and since a Doctor exists (but cannot heal the same person twice to avoid an immortal God), I would say that is only fair. The ability is still in the hands of a townie. Also, I'm glad that it will be a disincentive to smite at the very start of the day lol, because that's not the point! Do you still disagree? I can still change it.


The issue as I see it is that scum have a limited number of night kills (with Satans primary ability even having two charges). I suspect you prefer keeping the X-shot nature of his ability more than the fact that it can only be used every two nights, so I suggest removing the latter restriction on Satan’s ability.

As specified in the Mechanics, scum have a factional kill.

[Ganelon]

The issue is that God won’t have any real way of predicting who shows up at EoD. If he decides to use his ability towards the end of the day, he may find that people haven’t adjusted their votes accordingly - which could possibly result in an early hammer.

[Ganelon]

Oops, I blame the unholy amount of times my internet failed me for this, had already tried to add it :(. Done.



No. I don't want the Priest to be afraid to use his ability. Updating it to be "living" players.



Since God can confirm himself by doing so and since a Doctor exists (but cannot heal the same person twice to avoid an immortal God), I would say that is only fair. The ability is still in the hands of a townie. Also, I'm glad that it will be a disincentive to smite at the very start of the day lol, because that's not the point! Do you still disagree? I can still change it.



As specified in the Mechanics, scum have a factional kill.
Oh, about the factional kill. That’s nice. I guess it’s fine in that case. Can they utilize it at the same time as the Godfather’s Ability?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

The issue is that God won’t have any real way of predicting who shows up at EoD. If he decides to use his ability towards the end of the day, he may find that people haven’t adjusted their votes accordingly - which could possibly result in an early hammer.
Early hammers are heresy.
It's true that town could use a buff, after thinking about it, so I'll make it like you said.

Oh, about the factional kill. That’s nice. I guess it’s fine in that case. Can they utilize it at the same time as the Godfather’s Ability?

Only if the Godfather doesn't carry the factional kill.
Do you think scum have too many kills? I was debating that. I like debating with myself.

[theoneceko]

will this game be hosted?!?!? :rageangyface:

[Marshmallow Marshall]

will this game be hosted?!?!? :rageangyface:

Oh right, I created this xD
AIVION Shall thou review this? ^^

[AIVION]

Oh right, I created this xD
AIVION Shall thou review this? ^^

Yup!

Review in Progress! Will work on it all throughout the day when able!

[AIVION]

Does the Target of the Counsellor Angel know who the Counsellor Angel is during the day when they are chosen? Do they get to see the Counsellor Angel's name?
Is last wills allowed?
Is Suicide allowed?
(noting the removal of the MM Attack and the name change of Lucifer. Noting I like these changes)
(noting that the very long Day/Night phase. While unique, could lead to people feeling exhausted and maybe losing interest. Very interested to see how that goes!)
(noting that I love the prospect of the dead chat being able to be utilized in an FM game. Really excited to see how that goes as it's something I've wanted to be seen implemented in FM for a while but wasn't sure how to do so!)
Do you think Maybe god should get possibly another ability? Or at the very least 1 auto vest possibly? I mean it's God Almighty.
Would a post count limit you think be prudent for this kind of game length? I know someone asked that already and would like to know what you think.
All my comments for now!

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Does the Target of the Counsellor Angel know who the Counsellor Angel is during the day when they are chosen? Do they get to see the Counsellor Angel's name?
Is last wills allowed?
Is Suicide allowed?
(noting the removal of the MM Attack and the name change of Lucifer. Noting I like these changes)
(noting that the very long Day/Night phase. While unique, could lead to people feeling exhausted and maybe losing interest. Very interested to see how that goes!)
(noting that I love the prospect of the dead chat being able to be utilized in an FM game. Really excited to see how that goes as it's something I've wanted to be seen implemented in FM for a while but wasn't sure how to do so!)
Do you think Maybe god should get possibly another ability? Or at the very least 1 auto vest possibly? I mean it's God Almighty.
Would a post count limit you think be prudent for this kind of game length? I know someone asked that already and would like to know what you think.
All my comments for now!


The Counsellor Angel's target will know who the Counsellor Angel is when the chat opens at night (it'll be on discord). Updated.

No last wills, no suicide. Breadcrumb your actions, and fight to the bitter end. Updated.

God could maaaybe get a one-charge ability of either healing someone or discovering someone's alignment (he can only do one of those two actions with his one charge) in addition to his almighty God kill. Thoughts?

Vietnam flashbacks from some postcount limited game
I don't like the idea of limiting postcount, especially since I don't know which amount of posts to expect from players in this game. If players like the idea of a game with long phases but would like it to have postcount limited after having played, I'll consider it, but for now I think I like it as it is.

[AIVION]

The Counsellor Angel's target will know who the Counsellor Angel is when the chat opens at night (it'll be on discord). Updated.

No last wills, no suicide. Breadcrumb your actions, and fight to the bitter end. Updated.

God could maaaybe get a one-charge ability of either healing someone or discovering someone's alignment (he can only do one of those two actions with his one charge) in addition to his almighty God kill. Thoughts?

Vietnam flashbacks from some postcount limited game
I don't like the idea of limiting postcount, especially since I don't know which amount of posts to expect from players in this game. If players like the idea of a game with long phases but would like it to have postcount limited after having played, I'll consider it, but for now I think I like it as it is.

I was thinking of something like that yea. Get a 1 charge ability to see someone's true alignment. I like that if you're ok to implement that?

Fair.

and Yea Fair. The post count didn't really help and it goes against the nature of what you're trying to do with this setup.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I was thinking of something like that yea. Get a 1 charge ability to see someone's true alignment. I like that if you're ok to implement that?

Fair.

and Yea Fair. The post count didn't really help and it goes against the nature of what you're trying to do with this setup.

Just to make sure we're both talking about the same thing, I meant that God could have 1 ability charge that he would need to choose to either see someone's alignment or protect someone else. Do you still approve that? If so, I'd be adding that.

Anything else?

[AIVION]

Just to make sure we're both talking about the same thing, I meant that God could have 1 ability charge that he would need to choose to either see someone's alignment or protect someone else. Do you still approve that? If so, I'd be adding that.

Anything else?

I do looks good.

Approved as soon as you make the changes you mentioned! And its up to you since your the boss when you want this to be added to the Queue!

^.^

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Changes made. If anyone would like to host this, I'd play! But if not, I'll probably host it eventually.
Note that for obvious reasons, this cannot take a slot on a regular queue and will therefore be played off-queue; if interest for this game pace arises significantly enough, a new queue for games with this type of phase lenght could be created eventually.

Feel free to volunteer @ everyone

[AIVION]

Changes made. If anyone would like to host this, I'd play! But if not, I'll probably host it eventually.
Note that for obvious reasons, this cannot take a slot on a regular queue and will therefore be played off-queue; if interest for this game pace arises significantly enough, a new queue for games with this type of phase lenght could be created eventually.

Feel free to volunteer @ everyone

I wanna volunteer :)

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I wanna volunteer :)

Nice! PMed you on Discord

[BananaCucho]

Oh Game, the Eternal Conflict
We ask thee, in the name of thy creator, Marshmallow Marshall
To bless and sanctify this setup, to the souls of all those who partake in it
That they may play it in remembrance of the blood of thy creator
Which was shed for them
That they may witness unto thee, O Game, the Eternal Conflict
That they do always remember him
That they may have his Spirit to be with them
Amen.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Oh Game, the Eternal Conflict
We ask thee, in the name of thy creator, Marshmallow Marshall
To bless and sanctify this setup, to the souls of all those who partake in it
That they may play it in remembrance of the blood of thy creator
Which was shed for them
That they may witness unto thee, O Game, the Eternal Conflict
That they do always remember him
That they may have his Spirit to be with them
Amen.

I'm a heathen, so I don't get the reference :(

BUT I AGREE

[BananaCucho]

I'm a heathen, so I don't get the reference :(

BUT I AGREE

OH GAME, THE ETERNAL CONFLICT
WE ASK THEE IN THE NAME OF THY CREATOR, MARSHMALLOW MARSHALL
TO BLESS AND SANCTIFY THIS SETUP
TO THE SOULS OF ALL THOSE WHO PARTAKE OF IT
THAT THEY MAY EAT IN REMEMBRANCE OF THE BODY OF THY CREATOR
AND WITNESS UNTO THEE
OH GAME, THE ETERNAL CONFLICT
THAT THEY ARE WILLING TO TAKE UPON THEM THE NAME OF THY CREATOR
AND ALWAYS REMEMBER HIM
AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS WHICH HE HAS GIVEN THEM
THAT THEY MAY ALWAYS HAVE HIS SPIRIT TO BE WITH HIM
AMEN

[AIVION]

OH GAME, THE ETERNAL CONFLICT
WE ASK THEE IN THE NAME OF THY CREATOR, MARSHMALLOW MARSHALL
TO BLESS AND SANCTIFY THIS SETUP
TO THE SOULS OF ALL THOSE WHO PARTAKE OF IT
THAT THEY MAY EAT IN REMEMBRANCE OF THE BODY OF THY CREATOR
AND WITNESS UNTO THEE
OH GAME, THE ETERNAL CONFLICT
THAT THEY ARE WILLING TO TAKE UPON THEM THE NAME OF THY CREATOR
AND ALWAYS REMEMBER HIM
AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS WHICH HE HAS GIVEN THEM
THAT THEY MAY ALWAYS HAVE HIS SPIRIT TO BE WITH HIM
AMEN

OwO

[Marshmallow Marshall]

AIVION I have made a 9P version of the setup in a spoiler at the bottom of the OP. It has a similar town/scum ratio; no mechanics are changed, only the composition of the rolelist (no God, no vanilla Demon). Do you approve of this 9P version? If so, it could be played instead of the 13P if the 13P doesn't fill.
I'd also like your thoughts on the choice of the power roles I kept for both town and scum, btw. I'd love to keep God, but I fear it may be too powerful. Another point is that the Human Priest may not be so useful if the game is really small. I'm also unsure about the composition the Mafia should have. Maybe no Antichrist and just a vanilla Demon?

[AIVION]

Approved!

I will Confirm with whoever is Signed with S-FM Eternal as of now to see if they're still good to play, and then I will start!

[Helz]

Where is my boy Samael? That is the darkest of angels that even God butts heads with in religion regardless of if you consider him one of the princes of hell or an arch angel.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Where is my boy Samael? That is the darkest of angels that even God butts heads with in religion regardless of if you consider him one of the princes of hell or an arch angel.

I had put Lucifer instead of the Antichrist, and then got comments consisting of "Lucifer IS Satan, so you can't put them both" and similar variants... Perhaps Samael counts as well there, since both are "assimilated to Satan".

But hm... what about replacing both the Antichrist and the Demon with Lucifer and Samael?

[Helz]

Samael is really weird. He is about as close to the grim reaper as you can get with his functions not really being evil in intent but totally being evil in action. In Jewish lore he rides a snake to tempt Adam and Eve to eat the apple and later seduces eve to father Cain. In Baruch 4:8-9 it pretty much puts him as being the one who planted the vine that created the forbidden fruit which apparently made God angry and God curses both the vine as well as Samael himself. There are references suggesting that after this point Samael became the embodiment of evil after being cursed by God.
In the Ascension of Isaiah he also corrupts Manasseh and turns him to serve a demon named Belial to turn Jerusalem to chaos. Then Belial gets pissed at Isaiah for exposing Samael suggesting that he was serving Samael or at least had interest in concealing his hand in the situation. But within the same book it references Samael's actions while voicing that Belial's actions were according to the will of Satan suggesting that Samael could actually be an counterbalance to God.
There is also the story of Moses going through the levels of heaven and at the last level he encounters Samael and is told by Metatron that he takes the souls away from men.
One of the more interesting bits is that some attribute Samael as one of the names of God.

So TLDR- Its a bit of a question of if Samael is good, evil or some sort of balance to God. He would probably fit better as a neutral if you want to keep in line with religious texts but you could easily justify putting him on either side and stay in line with some pretty deep lore. A friend of mine who had a doctorate in theology had an interesting theory that Samael is both evil and serves God by creating the opposing end of the spectrum and allowing good to exist in the first place. (Because if everything was good nothing would be good, it would just be normal)

I just had to poke at it because Samael is easily one of my favorite entities. If you want a demon that fits beautifully with Mafia grab up Belphegor.

Really cool game lore you have there though.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Samael is really weird. He is about as close to the grim reaper as you can get with his functions not really being evil in intent but totally being evil in action. In Jewish lore he rides a snake to tempt Adam and Eve to eat the apple and later seduces eve to father Cain. In Baruch 4:8-9 it pretty much puts him as being the one who planted the vine that created the forbidden fruit which apparently made God angry and God curses both the vine as well as Samael himself. There are references suggesting that after this point Samael became the embodiment of evil after being cursed by God.
In the Ascension of Isaiah he also corrupts Manasseh and turns him to serve a demon named Belial to turn Jerusalem to chaos. Then Belial gets pissed at Isaiah for exposing Samael suggesting that he was serving Samael or at least had interest in concealing his hand in the situation. But within the same book it references Samael's actions while voicing that Belial's actions were according to the will of Satan suggesting that Samael could actually be an counterbalance to God.
There is also the story of Moses going through the levels of heaven and at the last level he encounters Samael and is told by Metatron that he takes the souls away from men.
One of the more interesting bits is that some attribute Samael as one of the names of God.

So TLDR- Its a bit of a question of if Samael is good, evil or some sort of balance to God. He would probably fit better as a neutral if you want to keep in line with religious texts but you could easily justify putting him on either side and stay in line with some pretty deep lore. A friend of mine who had a doctorate in theology had an interesting theory that Samael is both evil and serves God by creating the opposing end of the spectrum and allowing good to exist in the first place. (Because if everything was good nothing would be good, it would just be normal)

I just had to poke at it because Samael is easily one of my favorite entities. If you want a demon that fits beautifully with Mafia grab up Belphegor.

Really cool game lore you have there though.

I'm not a theologian and don't pretend to be one, but from what you're saying, it looks like he's the representation of how free will leads away from God and therefore into evil (i.e. how everything that isn't God himself and His words is automatically evil). And since that's from the Old Testament, it's also in Judaism; Judaism happens to have this exact philosophy, so it makes sense. Definetly something interesting to look into, both because Western mentality has strong roots in those representations and because demonology is cool.
And thanks =)

[Helz]

I'm not a theologian and don't pretend to be one, but from what you're saying, it looks like he's the representation of how free will leads away from God and therefore into evil (i.e. how everything that isn't God himself and His words is automatically evil). And since that's from the Old Testament, it's also in Judaism; Judaism happens to have this exact philosophy, so it makes sense. Definetly something interesting to look into, both because Western mentality has strong roots in those representations and because demonology is cool.
And thanks =)
Oh, I am not either. I just obsess over stuff like this. I could ramble about religious lore and it’s implications to ontological concepts for hours.

I’m totally going to have to play this game now : )

[AIVION]

Oh snap. Petition for round 2 on getting a game of this going? Marshmallow Marshall

[Oberon]

If you guys need help looking for players I’d be happy to look around.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Oh snap. Petition for round 2 on getting a game of this going? Marshmallow Marshall

/SIGN THE PETITION

I'm pretty sure we can at the very least fill the 9P. Especially if Helz is around ;).

[Helz]

Sure

/sign

[MartinGG99]

/SIGN THE PETITION

I'm pretty sure we can at the very least fill the 9P. Especially if Helz is around ;).

/sign

[AIVION]

Petition Passed.

Presigned the ones who signed the petition alongside the petition creator.

[OzyWho]

3 weeks for 1 game day is too much of a commitment that I could reasonably promise, though I like the idea.



Setup questions:

-What's stopping the God from revealing at start of game?

-Guardian Angel power's only purpose seems be to defend against Angel Knight? Can you sell the idea?

-Guardian Angels 2 charges, are they 2 charges of successful heals or 2 charges of attempts?

-Counsellor Angel communes with some as long as the Counsellor Angel lives. Would they keep communicating if the target died?

-After God reveals at the start of the game, what's to stop the Counselor Angel to target God? Even though God is just 1 slot, I think people could quickly come to a consensus to listen to God just for the possible existence of Counselor.

-Given the special mechanic/-s of this setup, wouldn't it be more logical to balance the setup slightly more scum favored than usual? My impression is it's the opposite.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Moving this post and the one I'm quoting to the setup thread.


3 weeks for 1 game day is too much of a commitment that I could reasonably promise, though I like the idea.



The idea is that it's not that much of an intense commitment, and that you can spend an entire day offline without even looking at the game. But you're obviously free of your actions, at least until I come and lock you up my in dungeon to force you to play FM forever.


-What's stopping the God from revealing at start of game?

Fear from kills: doctors, if they even exist, cannot target the same player twice in a row. There's WIFOM involved in there. I guess there could be some benefit to claiming early, though, so your point is valid. I have an idea to fix this. AIVION, would you approve if the following ability was added to Satan's rolecard: Alternatively, you may target a player at night by PMing host the role you think that player is. If you are correct, the player will die. This pierces all immunity and protection, and cannot kill vanilla Angels. This shares the one charge the previous ability has (in other words, you can only use one of these abilities per game).
This should work even better.


-Guardian Angel power's only purpose seems be to defend against Angel Knight? Can you sell the idea?


Scum have a factional kill :P


-Guardian Angels 2 charges, are they 2 charges of successful heals or 2 charges of attempts?


Charges are not consumed if the target is not attacked.


-Counsellor Angel communes with some as long as the Counsellor Angel lives. Would they keep communicating if the target died?


No. Specifying this in the setup.


-After God reveals at the start of the game, what's to stop the Counselor Angel to target God? Even though God is just 1 slot, I think people could quickly come to a consensus to listen to God just for the possible existence of Counselor.


My suggestion above would fix this.


-Given the special mechanic/-s of this setup, wouldn't it be more logical to balance the setup slightly more scum favored than usual? My impression is it's the opposite.

No: Mafiascum don't balance their games much differently compared to us, and this kind of game lenght is close to their standards. More time to play means more time to scumhunt, but it also means more time to scumpaint, to prepare anti-spew, fake claims, etc. Plus, I do not expect real life days of this game to be as active as real life days of 48/24 ones.

[OzyWho]

Moving this post and the one I'm quoting to the setup thread.



The idea is that it's not that much of an intense commitment, and that you can spend an entire day offline without even looking at the game. But you're obviously free of your actions, at least until I come and lock you up my in dungeon to force you to play FM forever.



Fear from kills: doctors, if they even exist, cannot target the same player twice in a row. There's WIFOM involved in there. I guess there could be some benefit to claiming early, though, so your point is valid. I have an idea to fix this. AIVION, would you approve if the following ability was added to Satan's rolecard: Alternatively, you may target a player at night by PMing host the role you think that player is. If you are correct, the player will die. This pierces all immunity and protection, and cannot kill vanilla Angels. This shares the one charge the previous ability has (in other words, you can only use one of these abilities per game).
This should work even better.



Scum have a factional kill :P



Charges are not consumed if the target is not attacked.



No. Specifying this in the setup.



My suggestion above would fix this.



No: Mafiascum don't balance their games much differently compared to us, and this kind of game lenght is close to their standards. More time to play means more time to scumhunt, but it also means more time to scumpaint, to prepare anti-spew, fake claims, etc. Plus, I do not expect real life days of this game to be as active as real life days of 48/24 ones.
90% of my concerns were fixed once you pointed out that I missed the faction kill. Maybe don't bother with the change. :laugh:

Sometimes setups have in their role cards everything: faction, faction ability, chat, win con, whatever else. But sometimes individual abilities only.
I choose to shift the blame from my reading deficiencies to the above. :thinking:

[AIVION]

Fear from kills: doctors, if they even exist, cannot target the same player twice in a row. There's WIFOM involved in there. I guess there could be some benefit to claiming early, though, so your point is valid. I have an idea to fix this. AIVION, would you approve if the following ability was added to Satan's rolecard: Alternatively, you may target a player at night by PMing host the role you think that player is. If you are correct, the player will die. This pierces all immunity and protection, and cannot kill vanilla Angels. This shares the one charge the previous ability has (in other words, you can only use one of these abilities per game).
This should work even better.

hmmm.. Well I mean Ozy's main concerned were alleviated when he realized a factional kill existed xD

With that in mind do you still believe this change to be necessary? I will admit it sounds interesting to add but idk how much it would impact the game in terms of claims..

[OzyWho]

Just ftr, I think that change sounds very VERY fun. But would that mean that the evil guy can kill someone twice with his own abilities? :thinking:
With the one he already has is (I think?) more than the usual setups, combine that with the possible town vigilante and God's day kill...
That's a lot of kills xD
I suppose there's a doctor and 2 of the evils are night immune for a time being.
Like, honestly. For a setup that has 3 weeks of discussion time, it might all end up being solved/decided by the powers instead. :laugh:

On a second thought, assuming town don't kill anyone and scum kill 2 per night first 2 nights - it's 4v3 D3, and that's discounting doctor and vigi and God.

Yeah.. sorry for my long rambling, but long story short - I personally like the change very much. :>

[AIVION]

Just ftr, I think that change sounds very VERY fun. But would that mean that the evil guy can kill someone twice with his own abilities? :thinking:
With the one he already has is (I think?) more than the usual setups, combine that with the possible town vigilante and God's day kill...
That's a lot of kills xD
I suppose there's a doctor and 2 of the evils are night immune for a time being.
Like, honestly. For a setup that has 3 weeks of discussion time, it might all end up being solved/decided by the powers instead. :laugh:

On a second thought, assuming town don't kill anyone and scum kill 2 per night first 2 nights - it's 4v3 D3, and that's discounting doctor and vigi and God.

Yeah.. sorry for my long rambling, but long story short - I personally like the change very much. :>

If you read what MM said he added a very small(ish) and very impactful word that means everything.

Alternatively

Which means he cant kill twice with his abilities. He can either choose one or the other.

If you think it sounds fun then I approve if Marshmallow Marshall Wants to implement it! It does kinda sound fun :p

[Marshmallow Marshall]

90% of my concerns were fixed once you pointed out that I missed the faction kill. Maybe don't bother with the change. :laugh:

Sometimes setups have in their role cards everything: faction, faction ability, chat, win con, whatever else. But sometimes individual abilities only.
I choose to shift the blame from my reading deficiencies to the above. :thinking:
Haha, your concern about early claims was not totally invalid though, even though the setup already had some mechanics against it. I like the new mechanic.

hmmm.. Well I mean Ozy's main concerned were alleviated when he realized a factional kill existed xD

With that in mind do you still believe this change to be necessary? I will admit it sounds interesting to add but idk how much it would impact the game in terms of claims..
Well, the spirit of the setup isn't to spend weeks following God or the Priest, so if it impacts it, it'll be positively imo. This also adds interesting WIFOM about town fake softclaims. Plus, it probably improves balance, so I will implement it with your agreement ^^

If you read what MM said he added a very small(ish) and very impactful word that means everything.

Alternatively

Which means he cant kill twice with his abilities. He can either choose one or the other.

If you think it sounds fun then I approve if Marshmallow Marshall Wants to implement it! It does kinda sound fun :p

Correct! I've also specified Satan's abilities share the same charge. Added to the setup. Thanks for the feedback Ozy!