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View Full Version : [Ready for Review] S-FM Sengoku Jidai (13P)



Oberon
June 9th, 2018, 11:15 AM
Samurai
Samurai
Samurai
Samurai
Samurai
Samurai
Hidden Samurai (Killing)
Hidden Samurai (TPR)
Hidden Samurai (TPR)

Daimyo (Godfather)
Hidden Oda Killing
Hidden Oda Support

Hidden Any

Role Cards

You are a landed retainer of the Shogun's Court, firely supporting the Ashikaga clan.
You have no special abilities.


You are a high ranking officer in the Shogun's Personal Guard, tasked with security from internal threats.

You can jail a player during the day, opening an anonymous night chat with them that lasts for a single night.

You can optionally execute your jailed captive. You have only one execution.


You are an entertainer at the Shogun's court, using your charm to discreetly eliminate threats to the his rule.

You may roleblock someone at night. Your may use your ability twice per game.


You are a loud-mouthed servant of the Emperor, relaying the news to the court.

You may post an anonymous message to be displayed during the ensuing day. You may not reveal your identity in the post.


You are a Buddhist monk, trained in the martial arts and in archery, skillfully eliminating any threats to the Shogun's rule.

You may kill a player at night. You can only kill once per game.




You may recover a dead player's last will at night, in addition to learning their alignment and role.





You are the leader of the Oda clan, secretly plotting to seize power and become Shogun.

You have no special abilities.
You are a stealthy mercenary, employed by the Oda clan to silence political enemies.

You may kill a player at night once per game.

If the setup is anonymous, upon killing your target you will swap your role, last will and identity (account) with them.

You are an Oda monk, supervising rituals and palace ceremonies.

You may clear a player's role at night, preventing their role from being revealed in the event of their death. This effect lasts for one day and one night. You may only use your ability once.

You are a corrupt retainer of the Oda clan, using your contacts and influence to secretly detain targets of interest.

You can jail a player during the day, opening an anonymous night chat with them that lasts for a single night.

You can optionally execute your jailed captive. You have only one execution.

You are a local nobleman, secretly supporting the Oda clan's struggle for power.

Target one player at night, demanding they do something.

Restrictions:
The demand cannot specify a result - only that the player does something. So for example, blackmailing a player into lynching
someone else is not allowed, but blackmailing them into pushing someone is.
The demand cannot impose a time restriction.
A player cannot be blackmailed into saying that they are blackmailed.


The player must meet the demand the following day.
The player cannot reveal they were blackmailed.
A player that does not meet the demand will die at the end of the day.
Upon dying, the roles of the players you have visited is revealed to the town.

You are an entertainer at the Shogun's court, secretly using your charm to overthrow the Ashikaga.

You may role block someone at night. You may use your ability twice per game.



You may assume control of a player's account during the night, gaining the ability to talk from their account during the following day.

You may do this twice.







You are a renowned craftsman, forging swords for profit.

You may craft a one-use Sword.

You are a landless, masterless samurai willing to pledge your allegiance to anyone.

You may pick a target on Night 0. You can optionally use your day ability to protect your master from being lynched. One charge.

You and your master share an anonymous night chat.

Your master must survive to the end. You do not need to survive to the end.

If your Master dies, you become a Dishonored Ronin.



*CANNOT SPAWN AT GAME START*

You win if you are lynched during the day.





You are a demented individual, seeking to torment his chosen victim for all eternity.

Goal: Receive a random person as a target. You and your target must be the last remaining living players in the game. The Tormentor is considered a side of his own, thus the game will not end until he wins or is killed.

Ability: You can torment your target in two ways, one is by sending anonymous one-way messages to your victim during the day (by PMing the FM master). The other is you can decide to jail him. While in jail your target is roleblocked and protected from death, you can chat with your victim while he is in your holding cell.

Events: If your target dies at night your new target will be the first one who killed him, you will of course know who it is. If your target is lynched during the day your new target will be randomly selected out of the voters or be the hammer vote (depending on setup), but you won't be able to jail the new target that night even if you planned to jail your former victim. If you ever vote to lynch your victim and he is actually lynched you will suicide the following night.

Special: The Tormentor always wins alone.



You are a corrupt palace guard, secretly gathering information for sinister motives.
You can read a player's last will and optionally modify it. You may do this twice.





Potential Feedback



An attractive entertainer occupied your night. You were roleblocked!



You were inspecting your cherry garden when you heard a curious noise in your quarters. Suspicious, you draw out your sword and slowly approach your quarters... A quick rush of air and alas a hooded, masked man has overpowered you and knocked you out from behind! You frantically try to resist, but the man manages to stab you with a pin! As the stars in the sky slowly blur away, the gravity of the situation dawns on you: you have been kidnapped!

You awaken, alone, in a dark room, your hands unbound. A parchment lies on the table in front, reading:"[Jailor's Jail Message Appears Here]".

Your captor finally enters the room and starts interrogating you.

NIGHT CHAT WITH YOUR CAPTOR OPENED.
Link: [LINK.GOES.HERE]



You investigated the late [TARGETNAME]'s finances last night, uncovering their occupation: [TARGETROLE], as well as their testament: [TARGETWILL].




You stealthily made your way to [TARGETNAME]'s quarters last night, finding and stealing their last will and testament. Upon returning home, you...



a) decide to keep the last will as is and return it to your target's home
b) decide to forge the documents

Their last will was:

[TARGET.LAST.WILL.QUOTE.GOES.HERE]




While walking in the streets of Kyoto, you pass by a shadowy but well-mannered samurai, dressed in ceremonial robes. He slips, and, you, in good faith, offer to help him up. The stranger is thankful, but he immediately disappears after you turn around. Bewildered by his sudden disappearance, you reach for your sword, when you notice a small piece of parchment in your sleeve. It reads:

[TORMENTOR.MESSAGE.GOES.HERE.]




Late at night, a landless retainer demands an audience with you. 'This man says he will pledge himself to you, body, sword and soul, if only you would teach him your ways', one of your guards says. You hastily let the man in. Bowing before you with great respect, he refuses to reveal his identity, for he says he has many enemies at court and that these are dangerous times. 'Dangerous times indeed', you remark as you ponder whether you should accept his loyalty or not. After much debate, the samurai convinces you to take him in and you decide to grant him a parcel of land from your personal estate, in exchange for his service.

A RONIN CHOSEN YOU AS THEIR MASTER.

Link to anon chat: [LINK.GOES.HERE]



You did not believe it at first. It seemed that time itself was shutting down. Your master, of all people, accused of plotting to overthrow the Shogun himself? It was a baseless accusation, one without honour. And yet, he was found guilty of treason and executed. One thing is clear in your mind. You are forever dishonored by having followed this man. Bushido code demands your honorable death by suicide. But perhaps it would be a stronger message indeed if you took someone else with you first? Your Master would've wanted it so. His killers must be brought to justice.

YOU HAVE BECOME A DISHONORED RONIN (JESTER).



*CANNOT SPAWN AT GAME START*

You win if you are lynched during the day.







You hurriedly race towards your Master's quarters, knowing full well you have little time to waste. The walls appear to have been hacked with an axe! And the guards are dead. Heart pumping and filled with a mixture of fear and disgust, you rush to your Master's bedroom, only to find him already dead and the killer escaped. You vow vengeance on those who have killed your master and dishonored you! 'There is no way out of this, save to commit sepuku! But I may take some of those spineless, honourless scoundrels with me, first,' you think to yourself.
YOU HAVE BECOME A DISHONORED RONIN (JESTER).



*CANNOT SPAWN AT GAME START*

You win if you are lynched during the day.







Order of Operations

0.1 Targets are Jailed or Kidnapped.
0.2 Jailor/Kidnapper/Tormentor Night Chat Open
0.3 Targets are Executed
0.4 Mafia Night Chat
1. Roleblockers (Consort>Escort)
2. Kills (Vigilante>Goon/Disguiser>Blacksmith Sword>Jailor>Kidnapper)
3. Blackmailer
4. Blacksmith gives out Sword
5. Survivor Vest
6. Sleuth
7. Janitor
8. Crier sends message (can be stopped by blackmailer)
9. Auditor

Mechanics
Days last 48 hours, nights last 24.
Plurality Lynch.
Ties are resolved by RNG.
Lynch is not mandatory.
Last wills allowed.
Suicide not allowed.

Win Conditions

Town: Kill all the Mafia and evil-doers (Neutral Evil, if applicable).
Mafia: Kill off the Town and attain the majority of the votes. You must kill the Tormentor.
Neutral Evil: Survive and see the town lose the game.
Survivor: Survive to the end.
Blacksmith: If the game ends on an odd night, you win with the Mafia. Otherwise, you win with the town.
Ronin: Your Master must survive to the end.
Dishonored Ronin: Get lynched during the day.
Tormentor: You and your target must be the last ones standing.
Sleuth: Survive and see the town lose the game.

Rules of Conduct

No OGC.
Insults are alright, but do not take it too far.
Do not quote PMs from me.
Do not post during day start before the host.
English and Japanese allowed.
Be active.
Images/videos allowed, keep it clean and don't spam.
No gamethrowing, threatened, attempted or faked, is allowed. Any violation will result in replace, mod kill or aggressive warn.
No griefing allowed.
Discussion pertaining to the game or Forum Mafia in general (while in-game) on the Discord server or on the Forums is strictly prohibited. This includes discussion of OOC information that was brought up in-game. I reserve the right to warn, modkill or replace anyone not abiding by this rule.
Anon accounts, if people want. I recommend this so I can replace Mafioso with Disguiser.
No spam allowed.
If a Ventriloquist/Disguiser/Blackmailer end up in the game (i.e. the setup is anon), then you are allowed (and encouraged) to encode your posts with a cypher. You have to PM me the code beforehand and explain in detail what exactly your code does. You may only submit codes that you generated yourself, pen&paper; don't use a computer program to generate it for you, because it would be unfair then.



HAVE FUN!











Special thanks to Gyrlander for the Rules of Conduct.

Blacklisted:

FAQ

1. Q: Can Janitor (Incense Master) sanitize a lynched player's role and last will?
1. A: Yes. They would have to use their ability on that specific player the previous night.

2. Q: What happens if we lynch a Dishonored Ronin?
2. A: A random voter will perish.

3. Q: Can Jailor or Kidnapper use their ability if a player was lynched that day?
3. A: No.

4. Q: Can Ronin (Student) be roleblocked?
4. A: No. It is a non-targeted ability, meaning that they do not visit they target.

5. Q: What kind of night actions can a Coroner detect?
5. A: They can see a role blocker, Disguiser/Mafioso/Vigilante, Auditor, Blackmailer, Coroner, Sleuth and Janitor visit at night. In addition, they can detect Jailor or Kidnapper executions.

6. Q: What happens if the Tormentor's target dies?
6. A: The Tormentor commits suicide.

7. Q: Can we lie about the Mechanics?
7. A: Yes, but if I am asked directly, I will give the correct answer to the question. I won't cover for your lie.

Additional notes

There are three separate jail chats, not all of which are necessarily active at the same time. They have similar names (Cell Block R-47, Cell Block J-19 and Cell Block G-48. I will randomize (before game start) the roles which are assigned the Cell Blocks (Jailor, Kidnapper, Tormentor).

I'm adding an observer/dead chat for this game. It's located in the same place as the night chats. If you want to talk to join in the observer discussion, you need to PM me (after the game starts) so I can send you the password and login. I may add some mini-games in the Observer chat so people can have fun.


Link to the night chats (they are or SHOULD be invisible):

https://fmchatsandothers.boards.net
(https://fmchatsandothers.boards.net)

Stealthbomber16
June 9th, 2018, 12:24 PM
Can you add colors?

Edit: thanks

OzyWho
June 9th, 2018, 12:55 PM
I wanted to make a funny comment, something about you and Noz Bugz competing on who can make more WIP setups. But I couldn't think of anything. :(

Ganelon
June 9th, 2018, 01:46 PM
I wanted to make a funny comment, something about you and Noz Bugz competing on who can make more WIP setups. But I couldn't think of anything. :(

This isn't really WIP, I know exactly which roles to add, I just haven't added them yet.

OzyWho
June 9th, 2018, 05:33 PM
Rules of Conduct

No gamethrowing, threatened, attempted or faked, is allowed.


Special thanks to Gyrlander for the Rules of Conduct.
Gyrlander , I thank you too! :love:

Voss
June 9th, 2018, 10:46 PM
oohh plurality

Ganelon
June 10th, 2018, 04:58 AM
Thoughts on using the condorcet election system? Do you think it would work with this setup?

Ganelon
June 10th, 2018, 08:45 AM
Planning to add a Judge-esque role, a Witch, a Survivor and a role that can read (and potentially) modify last wills. Possibly also a Tailor, either as a Mafia Role or a Neutral.

Gyrlander
June 10th, 2018, 10:57 AM
Gyrlander , I thank you too! :love:

The pleasure / privilege is mine ^^

Marshmallow Marshall
June 10th, 2018, 11:55 AM
Thoughts on using the condorcet election system? Do you think it would work with this setup?

Honestly, I think it's a nice voting system but shouldn't be omnipresent. Just roll some setups sometimes with that voting system, but not every two games. But it would probably work with the setup, yes.

Some questions:

Are death notes allowed?

What's the OoO?

Does the Master of Ceremonies's ability last for the following day thing mean that the clean is effective if the target is lynched on the day following the sanitization's night?

When does the Herald say his anon message, at day or at night, and when is the message displayed? Is he limited in the number of these messages, and in the character number? How are the messages displayed (anonymous S-FM Account, Crier, or host-displayed?)

Which Neutral would you want added? I've got a Neutral Killing that is pretty nice, because it doesn't have tons of KPN and it's what this setup needs IMO (unless my memory backstabbed me lol).

Edit because I saw next post: Judge might be quite a bit OP in this setup. Mandatory lynch already affects lynches, if you add a Judge into that it'll be super complicated to vote for Town. Going to check that NK role to see if it's not too much killing.

Marshmallow Marshall
June 10th, 2018, 12:01 PM
Name: Tormentor

Alignment: Neutral, Advanced Evil

Description: A demented individual, seeking to torment his chosen victim for all eternity.

Goal: Receive a random person as a target. You and your target must be the last remaining living players in the game. The Tormentor is considered a side of his own, thus the game will not end until he wins or is killed.

Ability: You can torment your target in two ways, one is by sending annonymus one-way messages to your victim during the day (by PMing the FM master). The other is you can decide to jail him. While in jail your target is roleblocked and protected from death, you can chat with your victim while he is in your holding cell.

Events: If your target dies at night your new target will be the first one who killed him, you will of course know who it is. If your target is lynched during the day your new target will be randomly selected out of the voters or be the hammer vote (depending on setup), but you won't be able to jail the new target that night even if you planned to jail your former victim. If you ever vote to lynch your victim and he is actually lynched you will suicide the following night.

Special: The Tormentor always wins alone. It doesn't matter who his victim is, Town, Mafia, or anything else, they won't win with him. Executioners are the exception, if they won before the game ended. Jesters who already won by getting lynched will also share the victory.

Clarification: Survivor and Tormentor are mortal enemies. While Survivor normally only has to survive, if a Tormentor is in play then he must get rid of him in order to be able to win.

Nevermind it's not a killing role lol. I really liked the idea. Tell me if you believe it fits in your setup! Magoroth

P.S. I did not add quote tags to avoid my spoiler being unquotable, so no copyright scandal please ;)

Ganelon
June 10th, 2018, 12:02 PM
Honestly, I think it's a nice voting system but shouldn't be omnipresent. Just roll some setups sometimes with that voting system, but not every two games. But it would probably work with the setup, yes.

Some questions:

Are death notes allowed?

What's the OoO?

Does the Master of Ceremonies's ability last for the following day thing mean that the clean is effective if the target is lynched on the day following the sanitization's night?

When does the Herald say his anon message, at day or at night, and when is the message displayed? Is he limited in the number of these messages, and in the character number? How are the messages displayed (anonymous S-FM Account, Crier, or host-displayed?)

Which Neutral would you want added? I've got a Neutral Killing that is pretty nice, because it doesn't have tons of KPN and it's what this setup needs IMO (unless my memory backstabbed me lol).

Edit because I saw next post: Judge might be quite a bit OP in this setup. Mandatory lynch already affects lynches, if you add a Judge into that it'll be super complicated to vote for Town. Going to check that NK role to see if it's not too much killing.

Yes.

Working on it, should be as in the mod.

Yes, that is actually what I foresee will happen.

He can use his ability every night. I will display the messages myself. The message is revealed during the day. Maximum string length is 255. (xD)

I'm taking suggestions on this, but I prefer not to add Neutral Killers; I don't really want to up the KPN by any chance. I'm thinking of adding a role that can vote after death and has to see the person who lynched him die (sort of a like a pseudo-Jester). Until he is lynched, he wins with the town.

Ganelon
June 10th, 2018, 12:04 PM
Name: Tormentor

Alignment: Neutral, Advanced Evil

Description: A demented individual, seeking to torment his chosen victim for all eternity.

Goal: Receive a random person as a target. You and your target must be the last remaining living players in the game. The Tormentor is considered a side of his own, thus the game will not end until he wins or is killed.

Ability: You can torment your target in two ways, one is by sending annonymus one-way messages to your victim during the day (by PMing the FM master). The other is you can decide to jail him. While in jail your target is roleblocked and protected from death, you can chat with your victim while he is in your holding cell.

Events: If your target dies at night your new target will be the first one who killed him, you will of course know who it is. If your target is lynched during the day your new target will be randomly selected out of the voters or be the hammer vote (depending on setup), but you won't be able to jail the new target that night even if you planned to jail your former victim. If you ever vote to lynch your victim and he is actually lynched you will suicide the following night.

Special: The Tormentor always wins alone. It doesn't matter who his victim is, Town, Mafia, or anything else, they won't win with him. Executioners are the exception, if they won before the game ended. Jesters who already won by getting lynched will also share the victory.

Clarification: Survivor and Tormentor are mortal enemies. While Survivor normally only has to survive, if a Tormentor is in play then he must get rid of him in order to be able to win.

Nevermind it's not a killing role lol. I really liked the idea. Tell me if you believe it fits in your setup! @Magoroth (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php?u=29730)

P.S. I did not add quote tags to avoid my spoiler being unquotable, so no copyright scandal please ;)

Wow that is an incredibly complex role. I think it would work very well with this setup. I might add it. I'll think about it.

Marshmallow Marshall
June 10th, 2018, 12:06 PM
Yes.

Working on it, should be as in the mod.

Yes, that is actually what I foresee will happen.

He can use his ability every night. I will display the messages myself. The message is revealed during the day. Maximum string length is 255. (xD)

I'm taking suggestions on this, but I prefer not to add Neutral Killers; I don't really want to up the KPN by any chance. I'm thinking of adding a role that can vote after death and has to see the person who lynched him die (sort of a like a pseudo-Jester). Until he is lynched, he wins with the town.

Yay

Yay

Yay

Can he use his ability more than once per night? IS 255 REALLY THE DAMN LENGHT ALLOWED XD

Check the next post :D but your idea seems kinda neat though, some kind of ghost... I'll keep that idea in mind :D

Ganelon
June 10th, 2018, 12:37 PM
Yay

Yay

Yay

Can he use his ability more than once per night? IS 255 REALLY THE DAMN LENGHT ALLOWED XD

Check the next post :D but your idea seems kinda neat though, some kind of ghost... I'll keep that idea in mind :D

Only once per night.

Ganelon
June 26th, 2018, 03:07 AM
Planning to add a few extra TPR roles and quite a few possible neutrals. I'll declare the setup finished later today. Going to host this Thursday if approved.

Ganelon
July 30th, 2018, 03:37 AM
SuperJack
Setup ready for review.

Ganelon
August 23rd, 2018, 07:08 AM
I may add Ventriloquist and Disguiser if the setup ends up being anon.

OzyWho
May 30th, 2021, 12:34 AM
Marshmallow Marshall

Would like to host this again. With added restrictions to blackmailer, and anon accounts :)
2022

Marshmallow Marshall
May 30th, 2021, 02:56 AM
Oberon made you own the setup again

Oberon
May 30th, 2021, 03:28 AM
Marshmallow Marshall ready for review

OzyWho
May 30th, 2021, 03:42 AM
rename Blacksmith to double agent imho :P
Neutral Evil in the win conditions is unnecessary because there's no such class and all neutral roles have their win con specified already.

Oberon
May 30th, 2021, 03:49 AM
rename Blacksmith to double agent imho :P
Neutral Evil in the win conditions is unnecessary because there's no such class and all neutral roles have their win con specified already.
Tru

Stealthbomber16
May 30th, 2021, 09:22 PM
whoever rolls blackmail please just restrict someone into being a pokemon

"You may use words from the following list.

'Chatot'
'Braaaa'
'Sqwuaaak!'

You may vary capitalization as needed unless it is with the intention of speaking in a code."

theoneceko
May 30th, 2021, 10:13 PM
whoever rolls blackmail please just restrict someone into being a pokemon

"You may use words from the following list.

'Chatot'
'Braaaa'
'Sqwuaaak!'

You may vary capitalization as needed unless it is with the intention of speaking in a code."

this sounds stupid as fuck.

-1

Oberon
May 31st, 2021, 12:01 AM
whoever rolls blackmail please just restrict someone into being a pokemon

"You may use words from the following list.

'Chatot'
'Braaaa'
'Sqwuaaak!'

You may vary capitalization as needed unless it is with the intention of speaking in a code."
"My opponent is a liar and cannot be trusted"

Marshmallow Marshall
May 31st, 2021, 03:23 AM
How do you plan on preventing the Crier from revealing his identity in his post? For example, can the Crier say "I will say potato tonight" and then post that at night to confirm himself? Can he say who he isn't?

Does Ventriloquist silence the actual owner of the account?

Can players say they were blackmailed after the blackmail day has passed? The way the rolecard is worded is slightly ambiguous.

Can "TPR" slots spawn Town Killing roles?

Please specify which roles fall in which category (does blackmailer count as killing or support? it does both; does ventriloquist count as killing since it basically takes over an account? etc.)

Please specify whether flips are present in this game (flipless, alignment only or full flips) in Mechanics; please specify whether scum have a factional kill there as well.

CRichardForumLies
May 31st, 2021, 03:28 AM
Oh a Japanese themed FM? Cool!
I'm a little disappointed it isn't a Danganronpa themed FM.

Oberon
May 31st, 2021, 03:29 AM
How do you plan on preventing the Crier from revealing his identity in his post? For example, can the Crier say "I will say potato tonight" and then post that at night to confirm himself? Can he say who he isn't?

Does Ventriloquist silence the actual owner of the account?

Can players say they were blackmailed after the blackmail day has passed? The way the rolecard is worded is slightly ambiguous.

Can "TPR" slots spawn Town Killing roles?

Please specify which roles fall in which category (does blackmailer count as killing or support? it does both; does ventriloquist count as killing since it basically takes over an account? etc.)

Please specify whether flips are present in this game (flipless, alignment only or full flips) in Mechanics; please specify whether scum have a factional kill there as well.
1. That's allowed
2. Yes. They can't even vote.
3. Yes, it's fully allowed.
4. No.
5. Willdo
5. They are; no nightkill

CRichardForumLies
May 31st, 2021, 03:32 AM
/sub I guess.

CRichardForumLies
May 31st, 2021, 03:33 AM
1. That's allowed
2. Yes. They can't even vote.
3. Yes, it's fully allowed.
4. No.
5. Willdo
5. They are; no nightkill

Hello again.
This looks interesting.

Marshmallow Marshall
May 31st, 2021, 03:41 AM
Then I fear the setup may be town-favored, since scum can hardly kill TPRs. I suggest making a TPR slot a Citizen slot instead. The Blackmailer will be much less powerful than in the previous version, since it now has restrictions preventing it from acting like a factional kill.

I would very strongly recommend forbidding skipping days, btw... :P
If you want skipping to be a possibility, then it should at least be limited to once per game.

Does the game start at night or day? Is Night 0 a special actionless night? (Asking because the Ronin pledges allegiance on N0)

When does ventriloquist act? It's not in the OoO.


6. Q: What happens if the Tormentor's target dies?
6. A: The Tormentor commits suicide.

Events: If your target dies at night your new target will be the first one who killed him, you will of course know who it is. If your target is lynched during the day your new target will be randomly selected out of the voters or be the hammer vote (depending on setup), but you won't be able to jail the new target that night even if you planned to jail your former victim. If you ever vote to lynch your victim and he is actually lynched you will suicide the following night.

Which quote is right? I'd assume the second one is, as it makes the role much more viable (else, it's a very hardcore one-way survivor-lover).

Marshmallow Marshall
May 31st, 2021, 03:42 AM
Hello again.
This looks interesting.

Yep! This setup was infamous for its blackmailer, but with the restrictions, it should be really fun and closer to its intended spirit.

CRichardForumLies
May 31st, 2021, 03:56 AM
Yep! This setup was infamous for its blackmailer, but with the restrictions, it should be really fun and closer to its intended spirit.

A blackmailer eh?
Sounds interesting, though somehow I doubt it will be work exactly the same as the mod version of blackmailer.
I mean being unable to post for 48 hours for example would be pretty painful.

Marshmallow Marshall
May 31st, 2021, 04:03 AM
A blackmailer eh?
Sounds interesting, though somehow I doubt it will be work exactly the same as the mod version of blackmailer.
I mean being unable to post for 48 hours for example would be pretty painful.

Obviously. It's very far from the mod's blackmailer, though.

Oberon
May 31st, 2021, 04:08 AM
A blackmailer eh?
Sounds interesting, though somehow I doubt it will be work exactly the same as the mod version of blackmailer.
I mean being unable to post for 48 hours for example would be pretty painful.
It's a cursed role
Last time I hosted this it cheesed the fuck out of the game

Oberon
May 31st, 2021, 04:12 AM
Then I fear the setup may be town-favored, since scum can hardly kill TPRs. I suggest making a TPR slot a Citizen slot instead. The Blackmailer will be much less powerful than in the previous version, since it now has restrictions preventing it from acting like a factional kill.

I would very strongly recommend forbidding skipping days, btw... :P
If you want skipping to be a possibility, then it should at least be limited to once per game.

Does the game start at night or day? Is Night 0 a special actionless night? (Asking because the Ronin pledges allegiance on N0)

When does ventriloquist act? It's not in the OoO.




Which quote is right? I'd assume the second one is, as it makes the role much more viable (else, it's a very hardcore one-way survivor-lover).
Was worried about that, but most town roles have scum analogues, apart from Crier. TPRs can't really self-confirm that much

CRichardForumLies
May 31st, 2021, 04:47 AM
It's a cursed role
Last time I hosted this it cheesed the fuck out of the game

Yikes!
That would be ridiculous.

CRichardForumLies
May 31st, 2021, 04:55 AM
Was worried about that, but most town roles have scum analogues, apart from Crier. TPRs can't really self-confirm that much

I mean it's possible to figure out if the role is town or scum by looking at how their actions fit in a town or scum PoV.

Oberon
May 31st, 2021, 05:23 AM
Yikes!
That would be ridiculous.
Oh yeah, I forgot to add that. Shouldn't be allowed to blackmail someone into not posting. I don't like that idea.

Lumi
May 31st, 2021, 05:34 AM
For Herald:

"You may post an anonymous message to be displayed during the ensuing day. You may not reveal your identity in the post."

This feels like a really gray area.

===

And the blackmailer sounds like a VERY, VERY interesting role but in my opinion it creates a very uncomfortable sort of perverse incentive where someone will want to follow the letter of the restrictions while skirting and subverting their intent as much as possible. And of course the blackmailer will not be very happy about this kind of behavior and could likely view the actions as having broken the blackmailing while the person blackmailed insists they followed the restrictions. And then this would require the host to weigh in on what is likely a very gray-area issue that could potentially decide the game as the punishment for not following the restrictions is death.

Not saying that this kind of scenario would happen every time, but even with well-meaning players, a gray-area dispute requiring the host to weigh in and potentially decide who wins the game based on the dispute seems like it has a high enough of a chance to happen that the role itself makes me pretty uncomfortable.

It's a really interesting concept though, I wonder if it could be reworked somehow to address that?

Voss
May 31st, 2021, 09:57 AM
this sounds stupid as fuck.

-1

Please find nicer ways to give feedback. (I infracted/deleted the other post)

blinkskater
May 31st, 2021, 10:05 AM
Please find nicer ways to give feedback. (I infracted/deleted the other post)

Voss please sign for the 6 player setup.

Luv blinkskater

theoneceko
May 31st, 2021, 10:08 AM
Please find nicer ways to give feedback. (I infracted/deleted the other post)

???

stealth's suggestion was actually stupid as fuck. no way i'd let someone irl be that dumb

-1 to the mod

theoneceko
May 31st, 2021, 10:11 AM
whoever rolls blackmail please just restrict someone into being a pokemon

"You may use words from the following list.

'Chatot'
'Braaaa'
'Sqwuaaak!'

You may vary capitalization as needed unless it is with the intention of speaking in a code."

-1.

i am not playing this setup if you let this be a thing Oberon

idk why you've to include pokemon in this. blackmailer should stay the same in this setup.

theoneceko
May 31st, 2021, 10:23 AM
i am okay with constructive suggestions. i'm not okay with shit like this.
Voss you've got to be kidding me with that infraction

theoneceko
May 31st, 2021, 10:26 AM
Oberon i had no idea you made a japanese-themed setup. it looks really nice, and at first glance it looks like you got at least some of the terms right.

Oberon
May 31st, 2021, 10:35 AM
-1.

i am not playing this setup if you let this be a thing @Oberon (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php?u=45595)

idk why you've to include pokemon in this. blackmailer should stay the same in this setup.
I think he was suggesting that the blackmailer blackmail someone into only using Chatot, Braaa, and Sqwuaaak

Oberon
May 31st, 2021, 10:37 AM
For Herald:

"You may post an anonymous message to be displayed during the ensuing day. You may not reveal your identity in the post."

This feels like a really gray area.

===

And the blackmailer sounds like a VERY, VERY interesting role but in my opinion it creates a very uncomfortable sort of perverse incentive where someone will want to follow the letter of the restrictions while skirting and subverting their intent as much as possible. And of course the blackmailer will not be very happy about this kind of behavior and could likely view the actions as having broken the blackmailing while the person blackmailed insists they followed the restrictions. And then this would require the host to weigh in on what is likely a very gray-area issue that could potentially decide the game as the punishment for not following the restrictions is death.

Not saying that this kind of scenario would happen every time, but even with well-meaning players, a gray-area dispute requiring the host to weigh in and potentially decide who wins the game based on the dispute seems like it has a high enough of a chance to happen that the role itself makes me pretty uncomfortable.

It's a really interesting concept though, I wonder if it could be reworked somehow to address that?
Yeah that is exactly what happens. It happened the first time I hosted this. Someone got blackmailed into posting "My opponent is a liar and cannot be trusted" all day, and they managed to skirt that by quoting posts and posting twice for yes and once for no.

Lumi
May 31st, 2021, 12:55 PM
Yeah that is exactly what happens. It happened the first time I hosted this. Someone got blackmailed into posting "My opponent is a liar and cannot be trusted" all day, and they managed to skirt that by quoting posts and posting twice for yes and once for no.

You said the Crier could say who they're NOT, but they can't say who they are?

What if there are 6 players left:
Alice, Bob, Charlie, David, Erin, Frank

Crier posts:
I am NOT Bob, Charlie, David, Erin, or Frank.

Oberon
May 31st, 2021, 12:58 PM
You said the Crier could say who they're NOT, but they can't say who they are?

What if there are 6 players left:
Alice, Bob, Charlie, David, Erin, Frank

Crier posts:
I am NOT Bob, Charlie, David, Erin, or Frank.
:Think:
I think I would not allow that.

OzyWho
May 31st, 2021, 01:27 PM
People participating in setup discussion? What year is this? :laugh:

blinkskater
May 31st, 2021, 01:31 PM
People participating in setup discussion? What year is this? :laugh:

Ozy people are signing up for ur game start asap!

Marshmallow Marshall
May 31st, 2021, 02:57 PM
I mean it's possible to figure out if the role is town or scum by looking at how their actions fit in a town or scum PoV.

Yeah, that's the point. But...


Was worried about that, but most town roles have scum analogues, apart from Crier. TPRs can't really self-confirm that much

What stops PRs from just massclaiming and forcing scum to either enter CC wars and die or to accept facing a towncore? They can only kill once (or having some blackmailing fun, but that doesn't stop PRs from being confirmed). If there are only 2 PRs, it's very manageable with kills + roleblocks. Right now, the setup could be solved through massclaiming D1.

Marshmallow Marshall
May 31st, 2021, 02:58 PM
:Think:
I think I would not allow that.

That was my point lol. How far can the Crier go with that? Is it really necessary to forbid the Crier from confirming himself in his message?

Oberon
May 31st, 2021, 03:13 PM
Yeah, that's the point. But...



What stops PRs from just massclaiming and forcing scum to either enter CC wars and die or to accept facing a towncore? They can only kill once (or having some blackmailing fun, but that doesn't stop PRs from being confirmed). If there are only 2 PRs, it's very manageable with kills + roleblocks. Right now, the setup could be solved through massclaiming D1.
Hmm, you are right. How about this: Oda have a factional kill, and the disguiser can choose to turn that kill into a disguise, once per game. If there is a disguiser

Marshmallow Marshall
May 31st, 2021, 03:21 PM
Hmm, you are right. How about this: Oda have a factional kill, and the disguiser can choose to turn that kill into a disguise, once per game. If there is a disguiser

I mean, that could work, but then the setup is completely different in spirit and loses what makes it interesting. Plus, you'd probably have to make the Mafia roles less powerful in such a case. Do you really hate removing a PR that much?

Oberon
May 31st, 2021, 03:25 PM
I mean, that could work, but then the setup is completely different in spirit and loses what makes it interesting. Plus, you'd probably have to make the Mafia roles less powerful in such a case. Do you really hate removing a PR that much?
If I remove one PR, there's still two PRs left. If they take out the Disguiser, it's, I think, game over for Mafia. Unless they do something fucked up with the blackmailer.

Marshmallow Marshall
May 31st, 2021, 03:33 PM
If I remove one PR, there's still two PRs left. If they take out the Disguiser, it's, I think, game over for Mafia. Unless they do something fucked up with the blackmailer.

Well, I thought about giving the Godfather a one-use "guess the role" gun to prevent claims, but that felt a bit sketchy for the Crier.

theoneceko
June 4th, 2021, 04:23 AM
you should add the win-cons for blacksmith and sleuth to their rolecards.

Marshmallow Marshall
June 5th, 2021, 01:18 PM
Well, I thought about giving the Godfather a one-use "guess the role" gun to prevent claims, but that felt a bit sketchy for the Crier.

Thoughts about this + removing one PR? It may not be optimal, but it should be better than straight up defeat for scum.

Also, do not forget to make lynch mandatory (skips are not allowed). That's very important to avoid skip-skip-skip strategies.

Oberon
June 7th, 2021, 12:44 AM
Thoughts about this + removing one PR? It may not be optimal, but it should be better than straight up defeat for scum.

Also, do not forget to make lynch mandatory (skips are not allowed). That's very important to avoid skip-skip-skip strategies.
How about: if nobody dies for 2 days/nights, the game ends and everyone loses?

Oberon
June 7th, 2021, 12:49 AM
Thoughts about this + removing one PR? It may not be optimal, but it should be better than straight up defeat for scum.

Also, do not forget to make lynch mandatory (skips are not allowed). That's very important to avoid skip-skip-skip strategies.
I'm thinking of removing PRs (other than killing roles) entirely now. I would consider leaving the Crier in as a self-confirmable role, but that's about it.
What do you think of replacing the support Town PRs with some roles that counteract the Blackmailer/Disguiser/Ventriloquist?

Oberon
June 7th, 2021, 01:03 AM
I'm thinking of removing PRs (other than killing roles) entirely now. I would consider leaving the Crier in as a self-confirmable role, but that's about it.
What do you think of replacing the support Town PRs with some roles that counteract the Blackmailer/Disguiser/Ventriloquist?
I would probably have to remove or revamp the Sleuth, as the ability would become near-useless. People don't use last wills that much if they're Citizens

Oberon
June 7th, 2021, 09:29 AM
edit: changed vote to plurality because fuck hammers

Marshmallow Marshall
June 11th, 2021, 01:18 AM
How about: if nobody dies for 2 days/nights, the game ends and everyone loses?
I guess it could work. But on a personal taste level, I'm not a fan of giving town the ability to decide nobody wins because they're in a bad position. If you want to allow skips, you could limit them to one per game instead.

I'm thinking of removing PRs (other than killing roles) entirely now. I would consider leaving the Crier in as a self-confirmable role, but that's about it.
What do you think of replacing the support Town PRs with some roles that counteract the Blackmailer/Disguiser/Ventriloquist?

That still leaves many people that scum have to kill or CC without having a factional kill, though. The issue would remain. What do you intend to solve with this change? And as you said, it'd be a quite significant nerf for the Sleuth.

Oberon
June 11th, 2021, 07:03 AM
I guess it could work. But on a personal taste level, I'm not a fan of giving town the ability to decide nobody wins because they're in a bad position. If you want to allow skips, you could limit them to one per game instead.


That still leaves many people that scum have to kill or CC without having a factional kill, though. The issue would remain. What do you intend to solve with this change? And as you said, it'd be a quite significant nerf for the Sleuth.
I thought of giving every townie in the game (apart from the Town Killing) a TPR rolecard regardless of if they actually aren’t the PR.

Marshmallow Marshall
June 11th, 2021, 06:21 PM
I thought of giving every townie in the game (apart from the Town Killing) a TPR rolecard regardless of if they actually aren’t the PR.

That's almost bastard lol... Do you really hate the idea of reducing the amount of PRs and giving an anti-claim shot to the Mafia?

OzyWho
June 23rd, 2021, 03:45 PM
setup of doom