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View Full Version : Setup : S-FM Let's Talk (12P) (OUTDATED)


OzyWho
April 26th, 2018, 02:04 PM
S-FM Let's Talk

GodFather
Mafia Goon
Mafia Usurper
Talker
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Jester Ahmed


Mechanics

Lynch: 51% votes required, mandatory. (In case of Tied votes: player last voted is lynched)

All players, except Jester Ahmed, are divided into pairs. All Mafia and Talker are individually paired with a Citizen player.

Pairs do not know their partner's alignment.

If one player of a Pair dies - the other dies too.

Mafia have a private chat.

Pairs have a private chat.

Days 48 hours or until Someone dies.

Last Wills active (PM Host).

Out of the 3 Mafia members - only the Usurper is informed of his team mates roles.

Nightless


Roles

Town

Citizen
You have the power to vote.
You are paired with someone else whom you share a chat and your live with.

Talker
You have the power to vote.
You are paired with a Citizen with whom you share a chat and your live with.
Twice per game, you can either join someone elses "Pair Chat" or Invite someone to join yours.
If you choose to join someone elses, you can choose to invite your "partner" too or not.
If you choose to invite someone to yours, you can choose to invite his "partner" too or not.

Mafia

GodFather
You have the power to vote.
You share a chat with other Mafia members.
You are paired with a Citizen whom you share a chat and your live with.
You can once in game kill someone by PMing the Host.

Mafia Goon
You have the power to vote.
You share a chat with other Mafia members.
You are paired with a Citizen whom you share a chat and your live with.
You can once in game kill someone by PMing the Host, if the Godfather and Usurper are dead and didn't use a kill yet.

Mafia Usurper
You have the power to vote.
You share a chat with other Mafia members.
You are paired with a Citizen whom you share a chat and your live with.
To win, you have to win as Mafia with the Godfather dead.
You can once in game kill someone by PMing the Host, if the Godfatherr is dead and didn't use a kill yet.
Jester Ahmed
To win, you have to either get lynched or suicide bomb yourself either on to the Talker or his "Partner".
If you do get lynched, the one who voted you last will die.


Possible Feedback

You or your "partner" got killed by the mafia. You are dead.

You or your "partner" got suicide bombed. You are dead.

That player has no "pair chat" that can be joined.

You got invited to join a chat.

You and your "partner" got invited to join a chat.

Someone joined your "pair chat".


Win Conditions
Town: Eliminate all Mafia.
Mafia: Have Mafia players count be either on par with Towns player count, or higher.
Mafia Usurper: Get GodFather lynched and win as the Mafia.
Jester Ahmed: Get Lynched or Suicide Bomb yourself on to the Talker or his "partner"

Order of Operations
Nightless

Rules of Conduct
1. Forum Mafia Rules (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/41099-Forum-Mafia-Rules)
2. To ask the Host a question, you must highlight the question in white, and mention the host.
3. Minimum of 5 posts per game day.
4. English only.
5. Do not post links to other websites.
6. Directly quoting any feedback or PM by the host is forbidden.
7. Have Fun.



S-FM Let's Talk

GodFather
Mafia Publisher
Mafia Usurper
Talker
Talker
Drunken Sheriff
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Saint Jester


Mechanics

Lynch: 51% votes required, mandatory. (In case of Tied votes: player last voted is lynched)

On odd-numbered Days, normal lynching mechanics apply.

On even-numbered Days, a nomination mechanic applies to the lynch. On the first 12 hours of the day, the mafia secretly select five players of their choice (which can be of any alignment) to be available to be lynched. The Host announces who the nominated players are for this day, and then everyone (including the five nominated) can place votes only on those five players until one is lynched.

All players, except Saint Jester, are divided into pairs. All Mafia are individually paired with a town player.

Pairs do not know their partner's alignment.

If one player of a Pair dies - the other dies too.

Mafia have a private day/night chat.

Pairs have a private day/night chat.

Days 48 hour / Nights 24 Hour.

Last Wills active (PM Host).

Nightless


Roles

Town
Citizen
You have the power to vote.
You are paired with someone else whom you share a chat and your live with.

Talker
You have the power to vote.
You are paired with someone else whom you share a chat and your live with.
Once per game, you can either join someone elses "Pair Chat" or Invite someone to join yours.
If you choose to join someone elses, you can choose to invite your "partner" too or not.
If you choose to invite someone to yours, you can choose to invite his "partner" too or not.

Drunken Sheriff
You have the power to vote.
You are paired with someone else whom you share a chat and your live with.
You can choose once per game to investigate someone if he is member of the Mafia.
Because you are drunk, your results are opposite of what they should be.
Because you are a sheriff and payed with tax money, your investigation results are public knowledge.

Mafia
GodFather
You have the power to vote.
You share a chat with other Mafia members.
You are paired with a Townie whom you share a chat and your live with.

Mafia Publisher
You have the power to vote.
You share a chat with other Mafia members.
You are paired with a Townie whom you share a chat and your live with.
You can once per game publish a fake public announcement, if someone is member of mafia or not, by PMing the Host. (You have to specify target and result)
If you died and didn't use your ability, then your Godfather can use it. If Godfather died too, then Usurper can.

Mafia Usurper
You have the power to vote.
You share a chat with other Mafia members.
You are paired with a Townie whom you share a chat and your live with.
To win, you have to win as Mafia with the Godfather dead.
Saint Jester
To win, you have to get lynched.
If you do get lynched, the one who voted you last will die.


Possible Feedback

You got invited to join a chat.

You and your "partner" got invited to join a chat.

Someone joined your "pair chat".


Win Conditions
Town: Eliminate all Mafia.
Mafia: Have Mafia players count be either on par with Towns player count, or higher.
Mafia Usurper: Get GodFather lynched and win as the Mafia.
Saint Jester: Get Lynched

Order of Operations
Nightless

Rules of Conduct
1. Forum Mafia Rules (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/41099-Forum-Mafia-Rules)
2. To ask the Host a question, you must highlight the question in green, and mention the host.
3. No Lynching on first 12 hours of even-number-days.
3. Minimum of 5 posts per game day.
4. English only.
5. Do not post links to other websites.
6. Directly quoting any feedback or PM by me is forbidden.
7. Have Fun.
OzyWho
April 26th, 2018, 02:06 PM
After Gyrlander posted that wiki link on the queue thread, I tried making a setup by copying a couple of game mechanics from that site.

SuperJack , can you come and Approve this setup real quick? :D
OzyWho
April 26th, 2018, 02:08 PM
13 player Nightless with tons of private chats. Who would love this? :weed:
SuperJack
April 26th, 2018, 02:13 PM
After Gyrlander posted that wiki link on the queue thread, I tried making a setup by copying a couple of game mechanics from that site.

SuperJack , can you come and Approve this setup real quick? :D

Links?
OzyWho
April 26th, 2018, 02:20 PM
Links?
Hmm... why would you want links from setups that I used parts of it's game mechanics to make a hybrid setup myself?

Ohh well, here they are if I remember the correct ones...
Setups that I copied some game mechanics from:
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Nomination_Mafia
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=True_Love

Maybe a role I copied something from:
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Vengeful_(role)
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Cop (publishing cop)
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Usurper

I think that is all. However, I don't see why you would want those links tbh.
Gyrlander
April 26th, 2018, 02:20 PM
I understand that, in other for mafia to win, they need to let their partners live until the end and win with a tie. Or not?

Also, does Talker role change your "life partner" in some way or do you still remain with your partner all the game.

What's the point of Drunken Sheriff if it is already known that his results will be the opposite of what they should be? I mean, he already knows that "Mafia" result is Town and "Town" result is Mafia.

If Mafia Publisher is lynched, what would Mafia Usurper do? He needs to get Godfather lynched but at the same time he has to win with the rest of the mafia... who do not longer exist (I guess you'll say that he can win alone, in which case I recommend you to write it down clearly in the setup :P) . Also, if Godfather is lynched and Usurper wins with the rest of the Mafia Godfather would still win, right?

Mafia Publisher ability is to make a "Fake Sheriff Night Action Result", am I right? Would Drunken Sheriff feedback appear as well and making the Townies know Mafia Publisher used his ability?
OzyWho
April 26th, 2018, 02:30 PM
I understand that, in other for mafia to win, they need to let their partners live until the end and win with a tie. Or not?
Yeah... comes to think of it - I guess I made it so 1v1v1 they would lose. Alright, I will change win condition a little.



Also, does Talker role change your "life partner" in some way or do you still remain with your partner all the game.

Life partner doesn't change, they remain the same all game.



What's the point of Drunken Sheriff if it is already known that his results will be the opposite of what they should be? I mean, he already knows that "Mafia" result is Town and "Town" result is Mafia.

I just thought that it's funny. :P
It serves no real purpose, except maybe punish those who didn't read setup I guess.



If Mafia Publisher is lynched, what would Mafia Usurper do? He needs to get Godfather lynched but at the same time he has to win with the rest of the mafia... who do not longer exist (I guess you'll say that he can win alone, in which case I recommend you to write it down clearly in the setup :P) . Also, if Godfather is lynched and Usurper wins with the rest of the Mafia Godfather would still win, right?
Yeah, he Usurper needs to win solo in that case. I need to change win conditions so that 1v1v1 = win somehow.
And yeah - Godfather wins if mafia wins.



Mafia Publisher ability is to make a "Fake Sheriff Night Action Result", am I right? Would Drunken Sheriff feedback appear as well and making the Townies know Mafia Publisher used his ability?
Yes, its a fake sheriff night action. Publisher can choose any target in game, including himself and the mafia, and he can choose it to appear as either - "came back as mafia" or "came back as not mafia".
Regarding what town knows and what they don't know... all they do know for sure is that the host suddenly says "Markus came back as not Mafia". They don't know if its mafia publisher or sheriff who did the "investigation". And this kind of message from the host can happen a maximum of 2 times per game, since both the publisher and sheriff can only use the ability once.
OzyWho
April 26th, 2018, 02:35 PM
Gyrlander , changed the win condition. It's fine now, right? :shy:
Gyrlander
April 26th, 2018, 02:51 PM
Another thing I'm afraid of:

Saint Jester can be easily found with players claiming who their partners are. As it is the only role who does not share a Night Chat with anyone he'll be found D1 and pretty much ignored the rest of the game.
Gyrlander
April 26th, 2018, 02:57 PM
Okey, MORE things I'm afraid of. Sorry if I'm annoying but I think they're important :P

Drunken Sheriff and Talker roles can be easily confirmed. As there is no Night Kill they can claim D1 and both talkers can confirm themselves by using their abilities. Maybe Mafia can CC the Sheriff and use Publisher ability, but if that works he'll get lynched the following day, resulting in only 2 Mafia left.

With 2-3 confirmed players in a small setup they are pretty much fucked up.
Gyrlander
April 26th, 2018, 02:58 PM
Gyrlander , changed the win condition. It's fine now, right? :shy:

Yes :)
OzyWho
April 26th, 2018, 02:59 PM
Another thing I'm afraid of:

Saint Jester can be easily found with players claiming who their partners are. As it is the only role who does not share a Night Chat with anyone he'll be found D1 and pretty much ignored the rest of the game.
Hmm... Damn.
That is actually a problem, yeah.

Not sure how to fix it and I really want a Jester here because it just feels right for the setup.

I don't want to remove and idk if I can fix it.

Damn... This setup will stay WIP for a while because of it.
OzyWho
April 26th, 2018, 03:03 PM
Okey, MORE things I'm afraid of. Sorry if I'm annoying but I think they're important :P

Drunken Sheriff and Talker roles can be easily confirmed. As there is no Night Kill they can claim D1 and both talkers can confirm themselves by using their abilities. Maybe Mafia can CC the Sheriff and use Publisher ability, but if that works he'll get lynched the following day, resulting in only 2 Mafia left.

With 2-3 confirmed players in a small setup they are pretty much fucked up.
Yeah, this is a total deal breakerr for setup to be viable.
I think I will have to make it like superjack did in the witch setup - 2 mafia roles look identical to both town TPR roles.

Jeez... And here I thought my setup is ready to go when I "published" it. xD
OzyWho
April 26th, 2018, 03:42 PM
Gyrlander , what do you think of this balance change idea?

Add a once-per-game faction kill for mafia.
Make all Mafia vengeful (they kill someone after death).
Add additional win condition to jester: "be last one alive".
OzyWho
April 26th, 2018, 05:38 PM
Role list, Jester and Talker have been changed.
Mafia Publisher replaced with Mafia Goon.
Drunken Sheriff replaced with Citizen.
I kept my "original" setup under a spoiler tag in case I want to revert back to it to make different changes.
OzyWho
April 26th, 2018, 06:15 PM
Added 1 faction kill to Mafia
Slight change to Jester again.


SuperJack , can you review this setup, please? I feel like it's ready. :shy:
Marshmallow Marshall
April 26th, 2018, 09:09 PM
Nice setup! I would love to play that.
OzyWho
April 26th, 2018, 09:51 PM
Changed "ask host questions" from green to white
Several typo fixes.
OzyWho
April 26th, 2018, 10:28 PM
Removed the odd/even numbered days Lynch mechanic.

Now I really see nothing to fix or improve. Even typos.
Gyrlander
April 27th, 2018, 07:35 AM
Now the setup is much simple and much better ^^

Only problem I could see is that Jester Ahmed can still be found D1, and it will become more of a game of "wait for the Talker to reveal himself (which won't happen) or just random suicide and hope you were correct". It may become not a so fun game for the Jester as him winning will not depend much on him... but Talker screwing up.
OzyWho
April 27th, 2018, 07:59 AM
Now the setup is much simple and much better ^^

Only problem I could see is that Jester Ahmed can still be found D1, and it will become more of a game of "wait for the Talker to reveal himself (which won't happen) or just random suicide and hope you were correct". It may become not a so fun game for the Jester as him winning will not depend much on him... but Talker screwing up.
Not sure how the game would be for Jester himself. I am kinda hoping that, in order for Town to win - Town somehow has to get a use of their only "Trump" card, which is the Talker. And in order for that to Happen - they have to first lynch the Jester.

I think that Town can't even hope in hiding the Talker as a secret in their Private chats, because of the chance that Talker joins or invites a Pair where a Mafia member is present and then all Mafia members write in their Last Wills who the Talker is.
OzyWho
April 27th, 2018, 09:58 AM
SuperJack
I see you have found a moment of spare time.
Let me disrupt that by asking you to Approve this setup. :)
Noz_Bugz
April 27th, 2018, 10:13 AM
SuperJack
I see you have found a moment of spare time.
Let me disrupt that by asking you to Approve this setup. :)

i'll send pandas if you don't approve this SJ
SuperJack
April 27th, 2018, 10:25 AM
SuperJack
I see you have found a moment of spare time.
Let me disrupt that by asking you to Approve this setup. :)

Once I'm home ^^ I'm at work, and no more breaks.
Marshmallow Marshall
April 27th, 2018, 12:13 PM
Oh just to know: Does Jester win makes the game end?
OzyWho
April 27th, 2018, 12:34 PM
Oh just to know: Does Jester win makes the game end?

Nope.
SuperJack
April 27th, 2018, 04:36 PM
What will you be using to create all the different night chats?
Whats to stop Jester being outted D1 by everyone else claiming to be in a chat?
If the Talker has created a larger chat group, and one of them players are attacked by the Jester, do they all die?
What chance would you give the Mafia of winning and why?
Can Mafia target mafia with kill?
OzyWho
April 27th, 2018, 11:30 PM
What will you be using to create all the different night chats?

True Love setup page suggests quicktopic. So I guess I do too.


Whats to stop Jester being outted D1 by everyone else claiming to be in a chat?

Nothing.


If the Talker has created a larger chat group, and one of them players are attacked by the Jester, do they all die?

No, just the attacked player and his "partner".


What chance would you give the Mafia of winning and why?

Higher than Townies:
Both: town and mafia - have 3 "pairs" to Lynch to win.
mafia have kill, town have majority and talker.
Jester wants to kill citizen+talker.

However, I do predict jester to be lynched and the game to be won by whatever pair died from it. (so I predict a citizen with a mafia mate has to hammer for town to win)


Can Mafia target mafia with kill?
Sure, why not. Except that's like the dumbest thing to do. 0.o
OzyWho
April 27th, 2018, 11:38 PM
Also, I want to see talker invite 4 players in his private chat, 1 of which is a mafia spy. :D
Ganelon
April 28th, 2018, 02:09 AM
Also, I want to see talker invite 4 players in his private chat, 1 of which is a mafia spy. :D

There's a very real potential for the three Mafiosi to scumslip - they are the only ones in the game to be able to speak in more than one night chat at the beginning.
Ganelon
April 28th, 2018, 02:11 AM
@OzyWho (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php?u=30663), do the Mafia know each other's roles? Or are they only informed who their team members are?
I don't understand the Jester's night ability - 'suicide bomb yourself'. Is that a targeted night action?
OzyWho
April 28th, 2018, 03:29 AM
I don't understand the Jester's night ability - 'suicide bomb'. Is that a targeted night action?

It's nightless setup. He PM's host his target and it happens.

do the Mafia know each other's roles? Or are they only informed who their team members are?

I guess whatever is the default. I think it's almost never specified in the setups.
What is default?
SuperJack
April 28th, 2018, 05:09 AM
To answer your last question, the default is your choice, you can let Mafia know with their rolecards.
You can reveal it at the start of the night chat.
Or you don't reveal it at all. (A choice which really does effect the Mafia upsurger) Just pick which you think fits best.

But the mechanic method of finding the Jester is quite too obvious. It's easy for everyone to claim their partner and then out the Jester.

Also, if the upsurger dies, is he revealed as the upsurger or just a normal Mafia?
OzyWho
April 28th, 2018, 05:42 AM
But the mechanic method of finding the Jester is quite too obvious. It's easy for everyone to claim their partner and then out the Jester.You speak as if it's a problem. 0.o


Also, if the upsurger dies, is he revealed as the upsurger or just a normal Mafia?All roles are reversed upon their death.
SuperJack
April 28th, 2018, 06:26 AM
You speak as if it's a problem. 0.o

All roles are reversed upon their death.

Also yeh, having a role where it's wincon is to be lynched, whilst having another mechanic which allowed everyone to discover who to not lynch.
Doesn't that seem a little... Counter productive and pointless. Unless that's your goal 0-o


Also, Godfather should need to see Upsurger lose, or survive to the end.

Otherwise Godfather may abuse the wincon, can let the upsurger bus him and they both win in the end.

Also does upsurger need to see the godfather die before upsurger dies to win?

Reversed? What do you mean by that.
OzyWho
April 28th, 2018, 07:03 AM
Also yeh, having a role where it's wincon is to be lynched, whilst having another mechanic which allowed everyone to discover who to not lynch.
Doesn't that seem a little... Counter productive and pointless. Unless that's your goal 0-o
I don't see how town hopes to win without lynching jester.
The hard part will be to decide which citizen will hammer since only 3 out of 8 citizens have a mafia as partner.

But in any case, the purpose of the role is balance. Without it I would have to remove talker, usurper and mafia kill, after which this setup would be copy of True Love setup and make this thread useless.

Either way - the same problem would be for any 13th slot in setup.



Also, Godfather should need to see Upsurger lose, or survive to the end.

Otherwise Godfather may abuse the wincon, can let the upsurger bus him and they both win in the end.

Also does upsurger need to see the godfather die before upsurger dies to win?

Making gf and usurper go at each other throats would make them both obvious whenever one of them is revealed by death. I rather they are forced to let gf be bused when they get in a winning position.

Usurpers win con is see mafia win with gf dead. Copied it from the page and it says nothing about the need to survive.



Reversed? What do you mean by that.
Autocorrect I guess. It was meant to be "revealed'
SuperJack
April 28th, 2018, 09:22 AM
I don't see how town hopes to win without lynching jester.
The hard part will be to decide which citizen will hammer since only 3 out of 8 citizens have a mafia as partner.

But in any case, the purpose of the role is balance. Without it I would have to remove talker, usurper and mafia kill, after which this setup would be copy of True Love setup and make this thread useless.

Either way - the same problem would be for any 13th slot in setup.


Making gf and usurper go at each other throats would make them both obvious whenever one of them is revealed by death. I rather they are forced to let gf be bused when they get in a winning position.

Usurpers win con is see mafia win with gf dead. Copied it from the page and it says nothing about the need to survive.


Autocorrect I guess. It was meant to be "revealed'

So, let me get this understand, you want the Jester to be found out on day 1 and lynched by the town and the town choosing who votes him last?

S-FMs have a maximum limit of 13 players, no minimum. So if you want to host a 12 player game, feel free to do some.

Completely understand the upsurger stance ^^ just wanted to make it clear, saves other asking mid game.
OzyWho
April 28th, 2018, 10:27 AM
So, let me get this understand, you want the Jester to be found out on day 1 and lynched by the town and the town choosing who votes him last?
It's what I expect to happen, not what I want. What I want would be talker to stay chicken all game because of jester while jester waits till either team has lynched 2 out of their 3 required pairs and then jester makes a calculated suicide bombing.

Btw, if 2 pairs of citizens would be lynched first, and both - jester and mafia - pm host, during downtime, to attack the talker+citizen pair. I guess both win.

If talker gets lynched - tough luck for jester.


S-FMs have a maximum limit of 13 players, no minimum. So if you want to host a 12 player game, feel free to do some.
If I remove jester, then everything - talker, mafia kill, usurper - would be either useless or bad.

Let me explain:
In a world where talker could confirm himself without a risk - town just lynched everything else and wins.
Which means that the only purpose of mafia kill possibility existing is to have a fighting chance against talker, nothing more.
Which means talker would be overpowered, since the best that mafia can hope for is to have an even match.
Meanwhile usurper would be a completely useless Nerf on the mafia.

The way I see it is jester role is required to stay in order for the other power thingys to stay.
I don't want a copy of True Love setup or whatever it's called. Jester is necessary balance for that, and that is the best that slot can hope for.

You see, jester isn't going anywhere for the sake of the setup and I don't see a way to improve that slot/role.

It's ok if you don't like that role/slot in this setup. You can just decline this setup and it's completely no problem for me. But, unless a miracle idea arises, I just don't see how can either remove or improve that slot/role. Not in this setup.
OzyWho
April 29th, 2018, 05:21 AM
Specified a Mechanic:

Out of the 3 Mafia members - only the Usurper is informed of his team mates roles.
SuperJack
April 29th, 2018, 05:41 AM
I'm approving it. Although the Jester role and mechanics I'm just playing a form of warning on it. It's unusual, and may forced certain plays, or even trolling.

But we'll see how well it plays out ^^
rumox
May 13th, 2018, 07:21 PM
What does suicide bomb for Jester do?
OzyWho
May 13th, 2018, 10:26 PM
What does suicide bomb for Jester do?


Kills the Jester Ahmed and his target (and the targets "partner", ofcourse).
Decides wether Jester Ahmed wins or loses (wether he kills the Talker with it or not).
Doesn't end the game for the rest of the players unless Town or Mafia have met their win condition because of that.
If it happens around the same time as another active game action (a lynch or a Mafia Kill):

Happen both at same time if the actions don't conflict.
If they do conflict, then happens the one whichever was first.


Sounds complicated. But I hope it's understandable. :shy: