Butters

[Clyde]

QED


As much chaos as I caused day1. I did more for town than anyone else. I exploited mafias only weakness and that was the fact they know more than anyone else. At least I tried to expose them. What did anyone else do. Sit on their lazy asses and blindly vote or questioned me for claiming lover.
Without any night actions night 1, we couldn't even interrogate someone into finding out if they were roleblocked/or anything else that happens during the night or if they lied about it. Mafia had the full advantage having talked to each other during the night AND during the day as things progressed.
Now I saw a whole lot of blind trust that I plan on interrogating people about day2. I wasn't going to sit idly and nominate someone based on blind trust.

I was really hoping that town would look into peoples reactions to my claim more than my claim itself. At least I had something to go on, being that only mafia should have been angry about my plan.

Who knows, I might have even tied up the mafia PRs into targeting me. They probably won't attack me since I asked the jailor to jail me but if I can get the consigs, consorts, Framers, Blackmailers, Lawyers, Drug Dealers on me from them in fear. Then our PRs are kept hidden and unaffected for at least a bit.

[Kenny]

So... is he citizen? Lol. Because from his tone, he doesn't seem like a town PR.

[Butters]

Yeah, I figured that after you said he bs'd it in the other thread. You didn't have to call me out like this lol.

[Butters]

Although, since you have this thread up, might as well just copy + paste the entire doc chat.

[Ike]

Not to be a dick or anything, but:


You think that he can't be a Citizen? Wasting a jailor's abilities for a night is an excellent trade-off for diverting the mafia's attentions. Additionally he gets to confer with the jailor and discuss who knows what.


Did you end up having to give your role, Clyde?

I agree with Butters - I'd like to see the whole chat please.

[Clyde]

I'll post it when it finishes. As for the role claim, I said that I didn't want to because of the possibility that Cartman is scum, given his lie. Doc posted that he still wants to know. I'm going to rep message him that I'm Enchantress, I think. What do you guys say?

[Ike]

Sounds good to me!

Although be aware of the idea that by refusing to tell Cartman your role you are in some ways inadvertently suggesting you're a power role to him, which would be the opposite of what you'd want to do were you actually Town power. I think it would be a good idea to play down your role as much as possible to Cartman and even claim Citizen to him while still rep messaging Enchantress to Doc.

Up to you though.

I gotta say this whole Rep messaging thing does seem a bit suss. I am surprised False is allowing us to use it.

[Kenny]

It's like a PM system without the sender's name lol... Or you could even choose to send your name on it... That's got to be a little sketchy...
I'd like to see the chat as well. Don't keep us waiting, Clyde, lol. :p

[Clyde]

Kenny, rep messages have your name attached. It's just a PM system that other people can't read, but can see was sent (e.g. I can see that your rep increased, but can't see the related message).

[Clyde]

Architect Chat:

Times are Pacific Time, US & Canada (GMT - 8:00).


Coffee: (2 Days Ago, 08:43 PM) Welcome. I assume you trust Clyde Cartman and I'd like to hear what you have to say for myself.

Cartman: (1 Day Ago, 05:14 AM) Before I say anything, I'd like to know who all is invited tonight. Role card says you invite 2 people to talk. Is Clyde the other person?

Cartman: (1 Day Ago, 05:15 AM) I'm also busy talking to the jailor so, forgive me if I take some time before responding.

Clyde: (1 Day Ago, 07:23 AM) Yes, Clyde is the other person. xD

Hi Cartman. Hi "Doc".

Coffee: (1 Day Ago, 08:13 AM) I invited the person you voted for to ensure you would feel comfortable speaking. Go ahead.

Cartman: (1 Day Ago, 08:21 AM) I'll be flat out honest here, since I think my ploy won't work past day 1. I'm not the lover. I was using that to see if I could get the mafia to rage at me. Only 2 people knew I was lying 100% and they weren't the ones that I would expect to be mad about my ploy. I was scum hunting day 1, in a sense it worked, except stupid town people didn't understand what I was doing and added to the mass confusion. Instead of questioning everyone claiming that I was lying, they joined in questioning me.

Clyde, I voted for you simply because I don't trust any of our 3 candidates. You seemed to be the only person that had enough votes that could knock off one of those 3.

Big Al said he didn't want the power and yet got voted up, it looks like a mafia ploy to me.

Tweek Twat sounds a bit like Claw, using gambits trying to get things done. Considering that a few people found him to be scummy, I'm surprised he got nominated at all.

McDaniels gave out a really bad reaction when I said I was a lover. Something doesn't sound right with him either.

I'd like to hear what you think of me right now.

Coffee: (1 Day Ago, 08:25 AM) I'll be honest with you then too. You caused far more harm than good.

I would like to hear your roles, now.

For future reference, the safe phrase is "SAFARI ZONE", not that it will matter if one of you is mafia.

Cartman: (1 Day Ago, 08:28 AM) No offense coffee, but I rather not role claim in front of Clyde. I still don't know if I can trust him.

Coffee: (1 Day Ago, 09:15 AM) You trust him enough to reveal that your entire game so far was a lie and implied you are something important by denying to reveal. If you're a power role, you've already showed your hand. Asking to be jailed for immunity implies you don't have a night action, one that you feel isn't as important as your ruse, or one that cannot be used yet.

So you're either a journalist, vigilante, coroner, prostitute, gunsmith, or citi.

And if I can figure that out, a team of 5 certainly can too.

Cartman: (1 Day Ago, 09:23 AM) I revealed my game so far since I won't be able to give the correct list of 2 mafias in the morning. So both mafias will know that I lied. I'll have to tell the town this so they are not disadvantaged by it.

Btw.. you don't seem to read your Rep often enough. This is unfortunate.

Coffee: (1 Day Ago, 09:27 AM) I don't care enough to cheat.

Clyde: (23 Hours Ago, 10:22 PM) Doc, one possibility you didn't mention: a Mafia member other than the Lover, trying to get in good with the town (possibly even a GF, since the Cit/GF investigation message applies to Lover as well).

However, without any evidence, I don't want to speculate on that. Sorry I haven't been online all day - I've been with my family, and my sister is leaving on Thursday (and will thus probably not be around much the next few days). Anyways, as for your question of role reveals, I'm a bit uncomfortable revealing my role without Cartman revealing his, given the above stated possibility. I really want to trust you, Cartman, but if you're telling the truth (about being town faking Lover), you caused a hell of a lot of confusion today, and even run the risk of getting lynched tomorrow when your lie is exposed. That's a pretty big red flag to me, personally.

Cartman: (14 Hours Ago, 06:31 AM) As much chaos as I caused day1. I did more for town than anyone else. I exploited mafias only weakness and that was the fact they know more than anyone else. At least I tried to expose them. What did anyone else do. Sit on their lazy asses and blindly vote or questioned me for claiming lover.
Without any night actions night 1, we couldn't even interrogate someone into finding out if they were roleblocked/or anything else that happens during the night or if they lied about it. Mafia had the full advantage having talked to each other during the night AND during the day as things progressed.
Now I saw a whole lot of blind trust that I plan on interrogating people about day2. I wasn't going to sit idly and nominate someone based on blind trust.

I was really hoping that town would look into peoples reactions to my claim more than my claim itself. At least I had something to go on, being that only mafia should have been angry about my plan.

Who knows, I might have even tied up the mafia PRs into targeting me. They probably won't attack me since I asked the jailor to jail me but if I can get the consigs, consorts, Framers, Blackmailers, Lawyers, Drug Dealers on me from them in fear. Then our PRs are kept hidden and unaffected for at least a bit.

Coffee: (14 Hours Ago, 07:28 AM) (quotes Cartman's previous post) Okay, but here are the things that your ruse caused that are negative:
1) You took focus off of the voting of candidates at the exact time when focus on voting the remaining candidates was needed. If you had done it the first day FM started this might have been different, but you did it when we had less than 24 hours left to vote up two more candidates. Even you yourself admit you are unsure of the candidates.
2) You aren't Claw, because Claw isn't even in this game. But you're as blindly arrogant as him and Jack. Your plan falls apart when you realize that the mafia has perma night chat so any venting can be redirected there with little to no problem. In fact the only thing you probably achieved was drawing a town-friendly neutral out of hiding. Or exposed the real lovers by accident. So unless that was your intent...
3) You did nothing for the actual election process, in fact you sowed more confusion here then any other and your actions could have been devastating. What if everyone jumped on Clyde, interpreting that he wasn't mafia by your actions, and it turned out we elected mafia as mayor because of it? It is extremely unwise to attempt to lead the town pretending you have all the answers when in reality you know no more than anyone else.

And for what, exactly? The reactions of 2-3 people, a majority of them will probably end up being town anyway.

(quotes my previous post)

I know I left out the possibility of mafia but honestly this isn't a mafia ruse man. We'll know he's mafia if he tries to follow through on a lie tomorrow, if he doesn't he basically outed himself for a few cheap reactions. This is strictly a case of someone trying to imitate the failure strats of more popular players.

I'd still like you to claim though Clyde, I need to know I can trust you before I move ahead with my own plans.

Cartman: (12 Hours Ago, 09:18 AM) (quotes "2) You aren't Claw, because Claw isn't even in this game.")

Dude, are you blind! Claw is player number 31. Go check the player list.
If it wasn't for the fact that your role is a declared town role, I'd swear I was being attacked by scum here.

(quotes "your actions could have been devastating. What if everyone jumped on Clyde, interpreting that he wasn't mafia by your actions, and it turned out we elected mafia as mayor because of it?")

Or they could have saved the day. I have a strong feeling that McDaniels is scum and I can't say I really trusted the other 2 candidates either. If I'm right, then you are blaming me for trying to sway the vote off a scum, that was my whole intent.

Clyde: (2 Hours Ago, 07:09 PM) Check your recent rep, Coffee.

Clyde: (2 Hours Ago, 07:23 PM) Cartman, do you intend to confront the people who were vehement about you being a liar during day 1 chat, once your Lover lie is unraveled? I think it would be a good idea.

Also, so you guys know, I'm fairly sure that a smurf voted for me. At my last count, I was tied (or possibly ahead - not entirely sure) of the other leading candidates. However, both McDaniels and Tweek beat me out for the election. This means that at least one of my nominations wasn't counted. I'm going to go through and double check this at some point tomorrow, but I'm almost positive that a smurf voted for me. I'm going to keep similar tallies for the lynch votes, so that we can work on narrowing down the smurf identity.

Cartman: (1 Hour Ago, 07:37 PM) That was my plan. I think only Tweek tweat saw the potential to what I was doing. He pointed out to someone who said I was lying that the only way they could know that is if they were lover (or mafia in some ways) I kept up the lover lie for day 1 just so that the mafia might waste some night action on me tonight.

Clyde: (6 Minutes Ago, 09:24 PM) I'd laugh if both Mafias attacked you or something. Hopefully we have a Lookout handy to see who all visits you tonight. xD

Cartman: (1 Hour Ago, 09:55 AM) Clyde, are you really Lysergic? or did you try to fool Big Al? If you are not, I won't push a com claim.

Coffee: (46 Minutes Ago, 10:18 AM) Alright, good to see you guys are actually getting along now. I think we can all trust each other here.

(quotes "Dude, are you blind! Claw is player number 31. Go check the player list. If it wasn't for the fact that your role is a declared town role, I'd swear I was being attacked by scum here")

I'm honestly really sorry about this. I swear I like quadruple checked that list and the signup thread and couldn't find him. I swear he was on it and then he wasn't. Anyway, I'm not saying you're scum, but I am saying your plan kinda sucked. Let's move on though.

I know for certain that at least one of the three candidates is town, because it's me. I'm sure if you're smart you can probably figure it out, but when I see you're both telling the truth I'll narrow it down for you.


FURTHERMORE, I have been kicking around a plan to use my role as a scumhunting tool. Let me explain it to you, and perhaps you can offer me some feedback.

Step 1: Find two town you can trust N2 (Check)
Step 2: Inform you of said plan (In Progress)
Step 3: Night 3 and onward(Or whenever we're ready), I night chat one of you, and someone we think is extremely scummy.
Step 4: You feign this is the first night you've been night chatted, and I ask you both to claim your roles to me.
Step 5: I ask extremely scummy person to pretend to be archivist the next day. I tell him two wrong people to back up his claim.
Step 6: Mayor pushes for his lynch after he attempts it, and since the two people I told him weren't night chatted by me, and they say they weren't.
Step 7: Rinse and repeat

The one major pro of this is that NO ONE HAS TO REVEAL. The scum literally lynch themselves. If they don't go through with it, it's basically a confirmation that they're scum. If the two people back him up, all three are scum.

The major con of this, of course, is that it's basically guesswork without an investigative role fueling it. I've got a few ideas of how this could work.

Cartman: (9 Minutes Ago, 10:54 AM) Interesting plan. Just one question, do you really trust both of us? If so, why? It might help me trust clyde more if I had a reason.

And I've told the jailor that you are one of the candidates. Would you like to create a code phrase so that we can recognize you tomorrow? I am planning on interrogating a few people very aggressively and I would like to know when to back down without the whole town and mafia knowing who you are.

Clyde: (2 Minutes Ago, 11:02 AM) Yes, I am really Lysergic. The fact that Al figured that out when I was so adamant about not revealing COM identities is what made me think he'd be a good scumhunter, and thus Mayor. I'd prove it to you, but it's against the rules to reveal my FM identity from my main account.

(quotes the bit about Coffee being a candidate)

Are you McDaniels? The two of you write in a similar fashion (especially comma usage - thank my former English major for noticing).

(quotes Cartman's previous post)

I like that plan a lot. Also, there's a very good chance that you'll end up coffee-ing an Investigative role, and we can get them in on it (assuming they prove themselves trustworthy, of course).

I'm down to try it. The rep system will allow us to message back and forth in secret, too, as long as we both remember to check it regularly. We should come up with some sort of secret word to sign our messages with, since apparently rep messaging is anonymous. Should be different than the trial safety word, too.

@Cartman's new post: It would help me to have a reason to trust you, as well. I'm willing to try this plan without knowing your role since I trust Doc (since he's obviously town). But remember that you haven't given me any reason to believe anything you say either. That's how trust works, and Doc knows what we both are (I think - I don't know if you told him your role or not).

Maybe the best part of his plan is that you and I don't HAVE to trust each other. Doc is the person who makes this work - we're just the backup. To that end, I think you (Doc) should alternate which one of us you choose to bring in each night.

[Butters]

The reasons Coffee said that what Cartman did was stupid were the reasons I thought it was inconceivable he'd do it in the first place. It simply did not make sense to me. Although this does bring up a good point about Wendy, and how "easy" she said it was to claim lover after Cartman did it. Possible night 2 invest target there?