S-FM Death Note (9P)

[Sino]

S-FM Death Note


A 9 player game

Roles list
Kira
L
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen

Roles cards
Kira
You are detection immune.
At night you are able to either kill a player of your choice of investigate them, learning their exact role, you can't do both within one same night.
You will be given the choice to trade your night detection immunity for the ability to double the efficiency of your night action : this will make you able to either kill or investigate two players of your choice at night instead of just one.
Should you accept this trade, it will take effect at the start of the following night.
You can only accept this trade during night one or night two, if you are alone, as a Kira.
You also have a one time ability to turn a player of your choice into a Second Kira.
If you try to turn L into a Second Kira, the game instantly ends in a town victory.
If you successfully turn a Citizen into a Second Kira, you will lose your ability to kill but retain your ability to investigate, but only one player at a time. You will however get your detection immunity back if you previously traded it away.
Turning a Citizen into a Second Kira does count as a full night action, making you unable to do anything else that night.

Second Kira
At night, you are able to kill a player of your choice, except for Kira.
You know who Kira is.
You are not detection immune.
You don't share a night chat with Kira.
If you die while Kira is still alive, Kira will get their ability to kill back.

L
At night, you are able to investigate a player, learning, if they are not detection immune, whether your target is a Kira or not.

Citizen
You have no special abilities.

Win conditions
Kira and Second Kira : Eliminate L and all the Citizen, or be in a position where this cannot be stopped, you will still win if you are dead when this condition is met.

Town : Eliminate all the Kiras.

Mechanics
The game will start on Day 1.
Days are 48 hours long.
Nights are 24 hours long.
Lynches will occur at 51% and will lock the thread.

Order of Operations
0.Kira accepts or refuses the night detection immunity trade (takes effect the following night).
1.Kira investigates.
2.L investigates.
3.Kira turns the player of their choice into a Second Kira.
4.Kira kills.
5.Second Kira kills.

Rules
No out of game communication.
No editing posts.
No direct quoted PMs from the host.
No personal attacks on players.
Last wills are not allowed.
Death notes are allowed.
Images may be posted, videos may not.
Threatened, attempted, or faked gamethrows are prohibited and will result in force replace or modkill at the host's discretion.
Players are required to play the game, which means be active and post about the game, host has total discretion to replace anyone for not participating in the game at any time. A warning may or not be given.
Questions can be asked in Green and optionally tagged with a @mention, or PM'd to host.

[Sino]

deathworlds Unknown1234 MattZed

Ready for review

[SuperJack]

/Sign

My dream come true :)

[Unknown1234]

Why would Kira need night immunity if nothing attacks them?

[Sino]

Why would Kira need night immunity if nothing attacks them?

It's detection immunity to L's check, that's the only purpose of it.

[Sino]

It's detection immunity to L's check, that's the only purpose of it.

I changed the "night immunity" sentences to "night detection immunity".

[Gyrlander]

Imba Kira turns L into Second Kira N1

[Sino]

Imba Kira turns L into Second Kira N1

I think you missed that part :

If you try to turn L into a Second Kira, the game instantly ends in a town victory.

[Gyrlander]

I think you missed that part :

If you try to turn L into a Second Kira, the game instantly ends in a town victory.

Yeah, that's why I said that lol. Insta town win.

[Sino]

Yeah, that's why I said that lol. Insta town win.

Oh, that could be suject to a change, but i didn't want Kira to learn about L's identity that way, and it makes sense for L to not be recruitable, so i went with the solution that made the most sense to me.

[Gyrlander]

Yeah, I understand. But imagine waiting for your game to finally start and has to end N1. I would go mad.

[Sino]

Yeah, I understand. But imagine waiting for your game to finally start and has to end N1. I would go mad.

Yeah, there is that risk, but it's pretty unlikely, Kira doesn't have to use this ability N1, and it's mostly a question of reads, which belong to the game.

[Quick]

Would optimal play from Kira to be investigate night 1 and then recruit or kill that player depending on L investigation and then N2 take the trade? That's what I would do at least.

[BananaCucho]

This is a fucking sexy game

/pre-sign

[secondpassing]

Yeah, I understand. But imagine waiting for your game to finally start and has to end N1. I would go mad.

What's your cat's name?

[Sino]

Updated the rules, last wills aren't allowed, but death notes are (duh).

[Sino]

Would optimal play from Kira to be investigate night 1 and then recruit or kill that player depending on L investigation and then N2 take the trade? That's what I would do at least.

I'd prefer if you could save those discussions for the game itself if you don't mind.

[Sino]

It seems my setup's main problem is the instant town victory in case Kira tries to recruit L, i'm willing to change that but i don't have any idea how it should be changed.

Obviously, Kira shouldn't be able to recruit L, and i also don't want Kira to find about L's identity that way, so does anyone have an idea of what should happen in that case instead ?

[Frozen Angel]

You can restrict him from recruiting night 1 and balncing the game in another manner

or adding a fake L in game - and kill him instead of L if kira tries to kill L or some modifications like that

[Cryptonic]

It seems my setup's main problem is the instant town victory in case Kira tries to recruit L, i'm willing to change that but i don't have any idea how it should be changed.

Obviously, Kira shouldn't be able to recruit L, and i also don't want Kira to find about L's identity that way, so does anyone have an idea of what should happen in that case instead ?


You could make a few people unable to become Second Kira. Like 3 Citizens + L. That way, It doesn't confirm him at all. And the Immune Citizen's don't know they're immune, or something.

Alternatively, you can make it so that Kira HAS to get his Second Kira n1. Then, you can have a random living Citizen get L's rolecard after N1.

[Sino]

You can restrict him from recruiting night 1 and balncing the game in another manner

or adding a fake L in game - and kill him instead of L if kira tries to kill L or some modifications like that


You could make a few people unable to become Second Kira. Like 3 Citizens + L. That way, It doesn't confirm him at all. And the Immune Citizen's don't know they're immune, or something.

Alternatively, you can make it so that Kira HAS to get his Second Kira n1. Then, you can have a random living Citizen get L's rolecard after N1.

That kinda goes against the point of this game : i wanted to have one very powerful scum with a lot of possibilities vs an entire town, i don't like the idea of restricting Kira's actions.

The instant town victory also fits the RP : it's a game of cat and mouse between Kira and L, if Kira tries to recruit him, it's giving away his identity, thus ending the game, if people really don't want it, i could also simply have the recruit attempt fail, but i'd prefer leaving it that way, not only does town have to find Kira, but Kira also has to find L.

[Cryptonic]

Then remove Citizen and make Second Kira a confirmed role.

[Unknown1234]

I understand that you don't want to make any serious changes, but having a possibility of Town winning in one night simply because they tried to convert the sheriff would ruin the game for people if it occurred.

Going on to Crypts idea, if you make citizens immune (even a few) it suddenly makes the game a 1v9 where the evil role has a possibility of not getting an accurate conversion.

[Sino]

Then remove Citizen and make Second Kira a confirmed role.

That would imply also changing the entire Kira role :<

I'd rather just have the recruit attempt fail.

Is that game over really such a big deal to all of you ?

[Cryptonic]

That would imply also changing the entire Kira role :<

I'd rather just have the recruit attempt fail.

Is that game over really such a big deal to all of you ?

It's no different than a 1 member scum team getting lynched day 1.

[Sino]

I understand that you don't want to make any serious changes, but having a possibility of Town winning in one night simply because they tried to convert the sheriff would ruin the game for people if it occurred.

Going on to Crypts idea, if you make citizens immune (even a few) it suddenly makes the game a 1v9 where the evil role has a possibility of not getting an accurate conversion.

Yeah, but the game could also just end D1 with a Kira lynch, that's why i'm not that willing to change this mechanic

Wouldn't make some citizen conversion immune be a too big Kira nerf ? I'm considering make 2 of them immune so there are not that much of them, but i'm worried about the balance of the game.

[Sino]

It's no different than a 1 member scum team getting lynched day 1.

Which is exactly why i'm fine with this N1 town victory.

[Cryptonic]

I don't think you need to change the mechanic, I just thought you were looking for ideas.
If Kira is too afraid to end the game in town win d1, then he can just kill until L is dead, then convert.

[Sino]

I don't think you need to change the mechanic, I just thought you were looking for ideas.
If Kira is too afraid to end the game in town win d1, then he can just kill until L is dead, then convert.

Unknown and Gyrlander expressed some worries about it.

[Cryptonic]

Unknown and Gyrlander expressed some worries about it.

There definitely are worries, but it's up to you if you are willing to assume the risk. It just sucks when you spend all this time making a setup, waiting on the queue, waiting for signups, post your game, and it ends in 48-72 hours.

[Sino]

There definitely are worries, but it's up to you if you are willing to assume the risk. It just sucks when you spend all this time making a setup, waiting on the queue, waiting for signups, post your game, and it ends in 48-72 hours.

I'm definitely willing to risk it, this mechanic really belongs to this game, if it happens, i still have the setup and can rehost it.

[ika]

to clarify, if he trades off his immune for kill and L investigates kira on the same night (aka he takes it night one and gets investigated n1) the results still show him as town right?

[Sino]

to clarify, if he trades off his immune for kill and L investigates kira on the same night (aka he takes it night one and gets investigated n1) the results still show him as town right?

Right, as it only takes effect the next night, Kira will also be able to kill/check only one player N1 for the same reason

[ika]

Right, as it only takes effect the next night, Kira will also be able to kill/check only one player N1 for the same reason

i feel like potimal play then is to take kill n1 and jsut keep double killing. I know yuo do want some of this dicussion for the actual game but dicussing it here can help with an overall ballance check.

i do think if you are worried about the day 1 GG thing is to make day 1 a no lynch day, ti would also allow and encurage dicussion about the mechanics itself and what kira/L should do

[Cryptonic]

I think a no lynch d1 is good, because it drops the chance of Kira getting ganked before d2 by half (if he chooses to convert).

[Cancer]

Can second kira make the deal for the Shinigami eyes?

Also lorewise second kira doesn't know the identity of Kira unless they make the deal and see they can't see the name of Kira

[Sino]

i feel like potimal play then is to take kill n1 and jsut keep double killing. I know yuo do want some of this dicussion for the actual game but dicussing it here can help with an overall ballance check.

i do think if you are worried about the day 1 GG thing is to make day 1 a no lynch day, ti would also allow and encurage dicussion about the mechanics itself and what kira/L should do

That could be a good idea, but i've never seen a D1 no lynch here, i don't know how it would turn out


Can second kira make the deal for the Shinigami eyes?

Also lorewise second kira doesn't know the identity of Kira unless they make the deal and see they can't see the name of Kira

Nope, second Kira can't make the deal.

Sadly everything can't follow the lore, I don't want second kira to accidentally kill the first Kira, and having players forget previous events isn't a function on this forum.

[Calix]

That could be a good idea, but i've never seen a D1 no lynch here, i don't know how it would turn out

I haven't read the rest of the thread. I just saw "No Lynch" and decided to link to this wonderful and extremely productive D1 ;)

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/35567-S-FM-190-RLVG-s-Hidden-Setup

In other news, why not just rerun the game if the game ends D1?

If you don't want to risk the setup going to waste then consider that. MZ had two runs of the Suicide Allowed games so it's not unprecedented.

[Sino]

I haven't read the rest of the thread. I just saw "No Lynch" and decided to link to this wonderful and extremely productive D1 ;)

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/35567-S-FM-190-RLVG-s-Hidden-Setup

In other news, why not just rerun the game if the game ends D1?

If you don't want to risk the setup going to waste then consider that. MZ had two runs of the Suicide Allowed games so it's not unprecedented.

Lol, what a tremendous amount of productivity.

We're keeping a day 1 lynch guys.

Also, people won't be able to post during nights, lol.

[BananaCucho]

That could be a good idea, but i've never seen a D1 no lynch here, i don't know how it would turn out



Nope, second Kira can't make the deal.

Sadly everything can't follow the lore, I don't want second kira to accidentally kill the first Kira, and having players forget previous events isn't a function on this forum.

You can make it if Kira hits L-1 second kira learns their identity lol

[Sino]

You can make it if Kira hits L-1 second kira learns their identity lol

Lol, that wouldn't be suspicious at all

"intent to hamm... wait nvm, i just learned this guy is actually my ally, please unvote guys"

And i also was thinking about the possibility of second kira accidentally night killing kira.

[Sino]

I'd like to add a rule as an experiment :

At least 50% of players' posts much be relevant to the game, what is and isn't relevant to the game is decided by the host.

[BananaCucho]

Lol, that wouldn't be suspicious at all

"intent to hamm... wait nvm, i just learned this guy is actually my ally, please unvote guys"

And i also was thinking about the possibility of second kira accidentally night killing kira.

If 2nd Kira attacks Kira he learns his identity instead of killing him. How's that?

[Sino]

If 2nd Kira attacks Kira he learns his identity instead of killing him. How's that?

I'd rather have him not waste a night.

[Never Unlucky]

I'd like to add a rule as an experiment :

At least 50% of players' posts much be relevant to the game, what is and isn't relevant to the game is decided by the host.

How about: "Players must make a minimum of x game-related posts" then? This policy would help against lurkers as well as the so-called "shitposters" without giving the players a feeling that they have to censor themselves to meet the 50% quota.

[Sino]

How about: "Players must make a minimum of x game-related posts" then? This policy would help against lurkers as well as the so-called "shitposters" without giving the players a feeling that they have to censor themselves to meet the 50% quota.

That's not a bad idea, but imo, the best thing would be to try both at the same time.

Usually hosts ask for a minimum of 5 posts a day, i also think, to avoid lurkers, that this cap should be raised to 20.

[DarknessB]

How about: "Players must make a minimum of x game-related posts" then? This policy would help against lurkers as well as the so-called "shitposters" without giving the players a feeling that they have to censor themselves to meet the 50% quota.

Any sort of a numerical cut-off is fraught with problems because undoubtedly, the host and player are going to get into a pissing match as to what constitutes a game-related or relevant post. If the idea to empower hosts to do something, they should just use their own judgment to decide whether a player is shitposting / non-participating enough to warrant a replacement. Any sort of an "objective" measure isn't going to work and will just be worked around. I understand hosts feel better having a clear rule, but at the end of the day, it's their game and they should be the sole judge of whether someone warrants replacement, not some arbitrary rule.

[Never Unlucky]

Any sort of a numerical cut-off is fraught with problems because undoubtedly, the host and player are going to get into a pissing match as to what constitutes a game-related or relevant post. If the idea to empower hosts to do something, they should just use their own judgment to decide whether a player is shitposting / non-participating enough to warrant a replacement. Any sort of an "objective" measure isn't going to work and will just be worked around. I understand hosts feel better having a clear rule, but at the end of the day, it's their game and they should be the sole judge of whether someone warrants replacement, not some arbitrary rule.

Yes, I like that better.

Dino, I think you'd be better off following DB's advice of judging by yourself who's lurking/hindering others' experience with their excessive shitposts than by drawing a clear-cut line between what you deem okay and bad with some arbitrary value.

[Sino]

Yes, I like that better.

Sino, I think you'd be better off following DB's advice of judging by yourself who's lurking/hindering others' experience with their excessive shitposts than by drawing a clear-cut line between what you deem okay and bad with some arbitrary value.

Alright.

[SuperJack]

Also talking to the player you think may be not giving enough, may help.

[Never Unlucky]

That's not a bad idea, but imo, the best thing would be to try both at the same time.

Usually hosts ask for a minimum of 5 posts a day, i also think, to avoid lurkers, that this cap should be raised to 20.

See -- I find this to be arbitrary as well as every player has a different way of posting. I know some players that post <20 times per day and still are among the most impactful players in the game due their posting structures, conciseness, and longer posts. I don't think such players enter the lurking category.
Case in point (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/515718-newbie-student-mafia-xxiv?user=darthfoley)

[BananaCucho]

Also talking to the player you think may be not giving enough, may help.

There are some Powers That can't Be reasoned with

[Sino]

Ok i made it :

Players are required to play the game, which means be active and post about the game, host has total discretion to replace anyone for not participating in the game at any time. A warning may or not be given.

instead.

[deathworlds]

Approved for signups!

@Dino Sino