M-FM Fringe: Prime Universe

[Forum Mafia GM]

Welcome to the Rest of D1!

Living Players:
1. M-FM Town
2. M-FM Badass
3. M-FM Moogle
4. deathworlds
5. Unknown1234
6. M-FM Wildcard
7. M-FM On Time Firebringer
8. Sino
9. Quick

[Forum Mafia GM]

Let the day resume!
01:23:00:00

[Sino]

Really, no one said anything after the split ?

Regarding Unknown and Wildcard's earlier interaction, it looked like a TvT to me, i think scum would try to avoid getting into such an argument early.

We might have a serious inactivity problem that could prevent us from being able to lynch in this universe (On Time and Quick)

[Unknown1234]

Whoops, almost couldn't find this. Hi Sino.

[Sino]

Hi Unknown, told you it's unlikely for a set of 4 specific players to end up in the same universe.

[M-FM Wildcard]

sup bbs

[M-FM Wildcard]

So, we're assuming 2-3 non-town per universe.
Now that it's narrowed down a bit, should be easy to go back to day 0 and check people out.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Unknown1234
Posts 31

Sino
Posts 26

M-FM Wildcard
Posts 25

deathworlds
Posts 11

M-FM Moogle
Posts 5

M-FM Badass
Posts 1

M-FM Town
Posts 1

M-FM On Time
Posts 0

Quick
Posts 0



Looks like we have the majority of lurkers.

[Unknown1234]

Unfortunate to say, but the majority of evils will likely be lurkers. Might be a good place to start... if they show up.

Otherwise, we can wait if we don't get a good lynch and (maybe) hope the other Universe is doing better than us. Stuff to think about.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Really, no one said anything after the split ?

Regarding Unknown and Wildcard's earlier interaction, it looked like a TvT to me, i think scum would try to avoid getting into such an argument early.

We might have a serious inactivity problem that could prevent us from being able to lynch in this universe (On Time and Quick)

I agree that Unknown is town. Obviously, I am going to say I am Town too (as little as it means), but I'm glad you say it as TvT. I honestly don't think Unknown would've engaged in that form on confrontation with me if he was Scum.

I also agree that inactivity could be a problem. Badass and Town have just 1 post each, and I almost feel like a scum wouldn't have just posted once as it would bring attention to them. 0 posts for Quick and On Time make it impossible to read, which equals a risky lynch. I think a good middle ground person would be our best bet.

deathworlds
M-FM Moogle

Can you come give some detail reads on players in our universe, please.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Unfortunate to say, but the majority of evils will likely be lurkers. Might be a good place to start... if they show up.

Otherwise, we can wait if we don't get a good lynch and (maybe) hope the other Universe is doing better than us. Stuff to think about.

If we can't decide on a scummy person today, would you agree to piling our votes onto a lurker and see if they get lynched? Lurkers can easily hinder the vote, which can definitely screw us over the entire game.

Or, should we just keep votes low if we're unsure, and hope the other Universe has better ideas?

[Sino]

Unknown1234
Posts 31

Sino
Posts 26

M-FM Wildcard
Posts 25

deathworlds
Posts 11

M-FM Moogle
Posts 5

M-FM Badass
Posts 1

M-FM Town
Posts 1

M-FM On Time
Posts 0

Quick
Posts 0



Looks like we have the majority of lurkers.

Great, we can only really check one third of the game out
OrpZed How long will you wait until starting to replace afk players ?

[Sino]

If we can't decide on a scummy person today, would you agree to piling our votes onto a lurker and see if they get lynched? Lurkers can easily hinder the vote, which can definitely screw us over the entire game.

Or, should we just keep votes low if we're unsure, and hope the other Universe has better ideas?

I dislike the idea to just rely on the other universe, we shouldn't hang around waiting for the others to do the job we're supposed to be doing, lynching the lurkers seems like the better option to me.

[M-FM Wildcard]

I dislike the idea to just rely on the other universe, we shouldn't hang around waiting for the others to do the job we're supposed to be doing, lynching the lurkers seems like the better option to me.

I also dislike that and would prefer to lynch from the bottom 5. Maybe 6 is deathworlds comes back and replies. Idk if a headache if a good reason to skip out; I have horrible cold atm, pounding headache, chills, fever, and i'm going on every now and then to keep up.

[M-FM Wildcard]

I also dislike that and would prefer to lynch from the bottom 5. Maybe 6 is deathworlds comes back and replies. Idk if a headache if a good reason to skip out; I have horrible cold atm, pounding headache, chills, fever, and i'm going on every now and then to keep up.

Obviously, if one of the top 3-4 starts acting scumming, i'm not forcing myself to vote for the bottom. I'm just saying if nothing better arises.

[Sino]

I also dislike that and would prefer to lynch from the bottom 5. Maybe 6 is deathworlds comes back and replies. Idk if a headache if a good reason to skip out; I have horrible cold atm, pounding headache, chills, fever, and i'm going on every now and then to keep up.


I admit it would be PLing, but if they don't come back or get replaced, we might never be able to lynch anyone.

[M-FM Badass]

We don't have to worry with Kirigiri there. Unless she's scum, of course.

[Sino]

We don't have to worry with Kirigiri there. Unless she's scum, of course.

What's the point of this post ?

[M-FM Badass]

What's the point of this post ?

Apparently I deleted half of it.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Having such bad connectivity issues last 2 days =[

[Sino]

Apparently I deleted half of it.

So what did you mean ?


Having such bad connectivity issues last 2 days =[

The site has been instable lately.

[M-FM Moogle]

I agree that Unknown is town. Obviously, I am going to say I am Town too (as little as it means), but I'm glad you say it as TvT. I honestly don't think Unknown would've engaged in that form on confrontation with me if he was Scum.

I also agree that inactivity could be a problem. Badass and Town have just 1 post each, and I almost feel like a scum wouldn't have just posted once as it would bring attention to them. 0 posts for Quick and On Time make it impossible to read, which equals a risky lynch. I think a good middle ground person would be our best bet.

deathworlds
M-FM Moogle

Can you come give some detail reads on players in our universe, please.

Sure, but why only ask us to do that? Are you currently scumreading us based on the number of posts in this game so far or are you looking at our posts themselves to figure it out?

My thoughts are I'm leaning town on unknown and sino based on this universe and the other one. I'm kind of a sucker for active posters and tend to townread that but they seem to be very actively questioning people and trying to get reads. I'm unsure on you because of your appeasing attitude towards Sino calling your interaction with Unknown TvT and I'd think as town, you'd question that a bit more to try to read Sino better. What is your read on him anyway? Other than that, I don't see too much concerning in the rest of your posting. I like that you are active.

I didn't like deathworlds making excuses not to post, that always raises red flags for me if someone does that and then doesn't post much of anything else. However the rest of his posting is pretty much null. I need to see more.

Quick is someone that would be worth metaing here and on mafiascum. It is my understanding he is pretty active as town and the fact that he hasn't posted here yet is a big red flag for me. I'll give him a chance to get in here but he would be someone I'd vote if he doesn't do much.

The others I have no idea and have made no impression on me whatsoever. They need to post a lot more. I'm fine with lynching in the group of lurkers because I would think it would be a good strategy for scum to try to lurk out the game if they can get away with it.

[M-FM Moogle]

Also, for some reason I can only get into this game on my phone. Anyone else having this issue?

[Unknown1234]

Also, for some reason I can only get into this game on my phone. Anyone else having this issue?

I don't know, I'm a phone poster most of the time so don't know.

[Unknown1234]

Apparently I deleted half of it.

I like how you claim you deleted half of it, but then you don't add that half again.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Sure, but why only ask us to do that? Are you currently scumreading us based on the number of posts in this game so far or are you looking at our posts themselves to figure it out?

My thoughts are I'm leaning town on unknown and sino based on this universe and the other one. I'm kind of a sucker for active posters and tend to townread that but they seem to be very actively questioning people and trying to get reads. I'm unsure on you because of your appeasing attitude towards Sino calling your interaction with Unknown TvT and I'd think as town, you'd question that a bit more to try to read Sino better. What is your read on him anyway? Other than that, I don't see too much concerning in the rest of your posting. I like that you are active.

I didn't like deathworlds making excuses not to post, that always raises red flags for me if someone does that and then doesn't post much of anything else. However the rest of his posting is pretty much null. I need to see more.

Quick is someone that would be worth metaing here and on mafiascum. It is my understanding he is pretty active as town and the fact that he hasn't posted here yet is a big red flag for me. I'll give him a chance to get in here but he would be someone I'd vote if he doesn't do much.

The others I have no idea and have made no impression on me whatsoever. They need to post a lot more. I'm fine with lynching in the group of lurkers because I would think it would be a good strategy for scum to try to lurk out the game if they can get away with it.

I ask you two specifically because you a mid-lying players. ie, you post enough to have a presence in the game, but not enough to stand our for anything exceptional. It's the place that most scum try to lie in to make it to late game.

You're right to be unsure about Sino and me, as I will admit that I am definitely not sure with him. However, he posts enough that I am hoping that I can get accurate reads without pushing directly on him. I feel that there are more important players to push currently, like you and deathworlds (hence the question towards you two). I will agree that I am kind of suspicious of Sino. I find that he does post a lot, but I haven't seen a high level of scum hunting, nor anything else that stands out as pro-town discusion. A lot of complaints, ect, which are easy to do while scum.

In regards to Quick, the last time the site says he was online was Oct 30, so he might not have seen the game actually started yet. Not actively lurking, and actually AFK. We will see if he comes on soon and participates. On the Contrary, M-FM On Time says they logged in on Oct 31 once the game had already started, and they hadn't made a single post. That stands out to me over the Quick situation, which is why I think if we do decide to push a lurker, it would be On Time over Quick.
Although, please do note that this does not make Quick town in any sense. Only as you said, completely null.

[Sino]

I ask you two specifically because you a mid-lying players. ie, you post enough to have a presence in the game, but not enough to stand our for anything exceptional. It's the place that most scum try to lie in to make it to late game.

You're right to be unsure about Sino and me, as I will admit that I am definitely not sure with him. However, he posts enough that I am hoping that I can get accurate reads without pushing directly on him. I feel that there are more important players to push currently, like you and deathworlds (hence the question towards you two). I will agree that I am kind of suspicious of Sino. I find that he does post a lot, but I haven't seen a high level of scum hunting, nor anything else that stands out as pro-town discusion. A lot of complaints, ect, which are easy to do while scum.

In regards to Quick, the last time the site says he was online was Oct 30, so he might not have seen the game actually started yet. Not actively lurking, and actually AFK. We will see if he comes on soon and participates. On the Contrary, M-FM On Time says they logged in on Oct 31 once the game had already started, and they hadn't made a single post. That stands out to me over the Quick situation, which is why I think if we do decide to push a lurker, it would be On Time over Quick.
Although, please do note that this does not make Quick town in any sense. Only as you said, completely null.

If we had to lynch someone right now, i'd probably pick Town, he posted once in the game before the split, just after my post about afk players, and then he vanished again, as if he just wanted to say "don't worry, i'm here".

[M-FM Wildcard]

Badass seems like a decent target, although I can't really tell if scum would act that way. Very nonchalant attitude towards the game, which makes it hard to read between scum and Citizen.

I've be down currently to lynch anybody except Unknown and Moogle. I get town vibes from both.

[Forum Mafia GM]

Great, we can only really check one third of the game out
OrpZed How long will you wait until starting to replace afk players ?
Replacements are done on a case-by-case basis, but players who have made 0 posts will likely be replaced before D1 ends.

[Sino]

Replacements are done on a case-by-case basis, but players who have made 0 posts will likely be replaced before D1 ends.

Ok, i'm down for a Town, Badass, or deathworlds lynch.

[Sino]

Unknown1234 M-FM Moogle Who would you be willing to lynch ?

[M-FM Badass]

So you guys want to lynch players that don't make big / constant posts. Seems understandable, but activity is not AI in some cases.

[M-FM Wildcard]

So you guys want to lynch players that don't make big / constant posts. Seems understandable, but activity is not AI in some cases.

But lack of activity will hinder us in a setup where we need more votes than the opposite universe to prevent us from being wiped out. So, if we hit a lurker and they are scum, 2 birds w/ 1 stone.
Plus, it's harder to get reads on someone who is not active.

[M-FM Wildcard]

I don't really care about big posts. TBH, I dislike them. I would rather just have you stick around and occasionally have conversations regarding the game.

[Sino]

I feel exactly the same way as Wildcard about this, our biggest enemy is inactivity, so Badass, what did you mean earlier here :


Apparently I deleted half of it.

And what do you think about the Unknwown/Wildcard interaction before the split ?

[M-FM Town]

Welcome to the Rest of D1!

Living Players:
1. M-FM Town
2. M-FM Badass
3. M-FM Moogle
4. deathworlds
5. Unknown1234
6. M-FM Wildcard
7. M-FM On Time
8. Sino
9. Quick


Hi. I'm still Town.

In a game where multiple non-scum factions exist, feel like this is the correct play to force scum out.

[M-FM Town]

Wait...

*looks at setup again*

[M-FM Town]

Sino - I had made 1 post before you included me in your 3-player short lynch list.

For reference, my post was:
"I am Town."

May I ask, honestly, what your reasoning is there to merit a lynch?

I'll be reading what I've missed but this smells of someone trying to go for easy mislynches without any basis.

Unlucky for you, I'm available now.

[M-FM Town]

Sino

Sheep me.

Reading up.

[Sino]

Yeah, keep reading, it's explained right there why i'd lynch you

[M-FM Town]

Ok - game looks like shit so far.

Lurkers and calls to policy lynch lurkers.

This isn't really playable.

[Sino]

Sino - I had made 1 post before you included me in your 3-player short lynch list.

For reference, my post was:
"I am Town."

May I ask, honestly, what your reasoning is there to merit a lynch?

I'll be reading what I've missed but this smells of someone trying to go for easy mislynches without any basis.

Unlucky for you, I'm available now.

And by the way, that's just plain false, you popped in AFTER my list, so instead of going for an easy OMGUS, how about you explain your vote on me ?

"Hey guise, i just arrived by sheep me i know what i'm doing"

[Sino]

Ok - game looks like shit so far.

Lurkers and calls to policy lynch lurkers.

This isn't really playable.



Any better options for now ? Lurkers aren't gonna help us lynch people when we'll really need it

[M-FM Town]

Yeah, keep reading, it's explained right there why i'd lynch you

Nah, this is excessively lazy.

My play was, however short, correct to hard claim town.

Where multiple scum factions exist this forces scum out. Easy.

The lurking levels render this game lame.

I find your logic pedantic but possibly a sad reality :-/

[M-FM Town]

And by the way, that's just plain false, you popped in AFTER my list, so instead of going for an easy OMGUS, how about you explain your vote on me ?

"Hey guise, i just arrived by sheep me i know what i'm doing"

No.

My first post was in the original thread.

It was "I am Town".

It's a very pedantic point and this feels TvT and I don't want to get tunnel syndrome.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Ok - game looks like shit so far.

Lurkers and calls to policy lynch lurkers.

This isn't really playable.



It's playable if people like you contribute more. You'd be part of the group that would make it "unplayable". To be honest, for the few hours that the game has been going on, it's been playing fine.

Think of the suspicion on you in this way:

We have 4 active players. If we all vote for the same person (which isn't extremely likely, maybe 3 of us will), that isn't even a majority for our Universe. We don't need a majority to lynch, but if the other Universe does hit majority, then we are left just getting picked off one by one at night until it's GG. Especially if the Mafia hits active town players, like Unknown.
Instead, if we do not have any solid leads, and we lynch a Lurker.... not only do they have the chance of being scum, but they increase the chance of us getting a lynch off in the following days.

Honestly, you'd probably be safer if you posted more, unless you're worried about slipping.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Nah, this is excessively lazy.

My play was, however short, correct to hard claim town.

Where multiple scum factions exist this forces scum out. Easy.

The lurking levels render this game lame.

I find your logic pedantic but possibly a sad reality :-/

Then... don't lurk. I don't see why you're complaining when you're guilty of making this game "lame", to your own standards.

[M-FM Wildcard]

M-FM Town did you read the pre-day 1 in it's entirety?

[Sino]

Nah, this is excessively lazy.

My play was, however short, correct to hard claim town.

Where multiple scum factions exist this forces scum out. Easy.

The lurking levels render this game lame.

I find your logic pedantic but possibly a sad reality :-/

I don't follow that logic, how would hard claim town force out scum ?


No.

My first post was in the original thread.

It was "I am Town".

It's a very pedantic point and this feels TvT and I don't want to get tunnel syndrome.

Your first post in the game is shown as 171 in the original thread, i guess that's the one you're referring to ?

[M-FM Town]

It's playable if people like you contribute more. You'd be part of the group that would make it "unplayable". To be honest, for the few hours that the game has been going on, it's been playing fine.

Think of the suspicion on you in this way:

We have 4 active players. If we all vote for the same person (which isn't extremely likely, maybe 3 of us will), that isn't even a majority for our Universe. We don't need a majority to lynch, but if the other Universe does hit majority, then we are left just getting picked off one by one at night until it's GG. Especially if the Mafia hits active town players, like Unknown.
Instead, if we do not have any solid leads, and we lynch a Lurker.... not only do they have the chance of being scum, but they increase the chance of us getting a lynch off in the following days.

Honestly, you'd probably be safer if you posted more, unless you're worried about slipping.

Ok, this is a solid explanation in terms of a Towny mindset/strategic approach.

Major town points.

Alright count me in.

[M-FM Town]

Then... don't lurk. I don't see why you're complaining when you're guilty of making this game "lame", to your own standards.

I had IRL obligations.

[M-FM Town]

M-FM Town did you read the pre-day 1 in it's entirety?

No.

[M-FM Wildcard]

I think I'd like to vote deathworlds or Badass today, to be upfront about it.
What are people's opinions on them?

[Unknown1234]

What is Badass doing?

[M-FM Wildcard]

No.

That's fine, I was just going to ask you if you had any reads from it.

[Sino]

I think I'd like to vote deathworlds or Badass today, to be upfront about it.
What are people's opinions on them?

I'm down, which one would you pick ?

[Unknown1234]

All Badass did was make a comment and claim he "deleted half of it" the made if very clear that he read my question because he responded to a later post saying "lurking is not AI".

Defending his lurking play>explaining weird posts/answering questions.

[Unknown1234]

That made it very clear* oops.

[Sino]

M-FM Badass

[Sino]

I also asked him two times about that half deleted post and never got an answer

[Unknown1234]

We have 34 hours before we even know if our universe will get a lynch off. Not In a huge rush.

[M-FM Town]

That's fine, I was just going to ask you if you had any reads from it.

I'm reading through it now.

Out to lunch at the moment. I'll be back within the hour.

[Unknown1234]

Sino what's your case on deathworlds?

[M-FM Town]

I don't follow that logic, how would hard claim town force out scum ?



Your first post in the game is shown as 171 in the original thread, i guess that's the one you're referring to ?

It's a technical play as I understand it.

I don't want to fully explain this yet as it risks a WIFOM merry-go-round.

[Sino]

Sino what's your case on deathworlds?

Him making excuses to not post, i don't find the post where he talks about his headache though

[M-FM Wildcard]

Hard to say. When I look back @ Badass' posts in the pre-day, it's hard to get a read off him. He does include a post that attacks someone for saying RVS is scummy, which could be taken either way. And honestly, anyone can have that opinion regardless of their alignment, as it only depends on their view of Mafia as a whole game. He never comes back to the pre-day after those few posts to follow up, so didn't get a read from him.

Then, in our Universe, Badass has an extremely nonchalant attitude towards the game. Posts unfinished posts, doesn't come back to clarify. Really seems not to give a shit to follow up with stuff that he is saying. I can't really see Mafia caring that little when you know their teammates have a 24/7 chat going on. Someone is going to be on their ass about that kind of stuff.



deathworlds, on the other hand, did post quite a bit during the first day. He offered a lot of posts regarding the setup, but never really posted anything about the ongoing game. Which is strange, since he specifically said that we would have to make the most out of the pre-game. I find the action of talking about setup and not the game to be a scum-tell, as it is an attempt to seem helpful without offering anything to the game that can't be learned by any other player, by themselves. His last post of the day also does read strange to me; he kind of calls me out for not wanting the person who is pressuring me in the same Universe as me, but then agrees that he also wouldn't want that regardless of alignment. Seems strange to me that I am on his ass whenever I posted in the pre-game, and he decides to agree with me instead of make me look scummy for it. I could see deathworlds possibly being William Bell, but I don't have too much of a read on him.




To be honest, typing all that up is making me second guess my voting on those two. I mean, I'd probably choose deathworlds over badass, but maybe I should be looking elsewhere entirely.

[Sino]

It's a technical play as I understand it.

I don't want to fully explain this yet as it risks a WIFOM merry-go-round.

Ok, but i don't consider saying "Hi, I'm town" being a hard claim town, especially when it also happens to be your name.

[M-FM Badass]

I feel exactly the same way as Wildcard about this, our biggest enemy is inactivity, so Badass, what did you mean earlier here :



And what do you think about the Unknwown/Wildcard interaction before the split ?

I don't remember, it was a weird explanation about you and unknown were compensated by Kirigiri being on the other side or something like that. I just wanted to say something.

Honestly, I had to read 10 pages and that conv was just too tedious and just read through it.

[M-FM Wildcard]

We also should realize that this is one of the few games where RVS actually works (unless you're playing a game with noob scum).
Mafia in this game can communicate with the other Universe, so they will likely be trying to organize votes to avoid a lynch on a teammate in another Universe.
ie, let's say we have 4 votes on a Mafia. In the other Universe, the Mafia will likely be trying to pile votes on a non-Mafia to force their lynch over the Mafia members.

Although we can't really know that is going on, we should look for suspicious voting that doesn't really make sense, as it will speak volumes in this game. Reluctance to vote, avoiding adding another vote on a player, ect.


Also, if you end up changing Universes, make sure you tell them the votes on players and what is going on in the other Universe. This will be invaluable information. Also, tell them to bring that type of Information back with them if they change over to ours. It will definitely provide a lot of extra information.

[M-FM Wildcard]

I don't remember, it was a weird explanation about you and unknown were compensated by Kirigiri being on the other side or something like that. I just wanted to say something.

Honestly, I had to read 10 pages and that conv was just too tedious and just read through it.

What do you feel about the players in our universe. Kiri is no longer that relevant to us at this point in time.

[M-FM Badass]

What is Badass doing?

I was probably watching a film, if that is what you wanted to know.

[M-FM Badass]

What do you feel about the players in our universe. Kiri is no longer that relevant to us at this point in time.

Yeah, I feel strange like... is this like 2 separate games or so? Give me a moment to check the setup once more, please.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Badass, who do you want to vote today?
And also Town, who would choose to vote today if you had to choose.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Yeah, I feel strange like... is this like 2 separate games or so? Give me a moment to check the setup once more, please.

I can give you a quick explanation.
It is 1 setup split between 2 smaller games. There are roles that can jump between Universes (games) and roles that and move players between them.
Out of both the games, whoever has the most votes gets lynched. Therefore, if we have 4 votes on a player, and the other game has 5 votes on a player, our lynch does not occur. Only 1 lynch can happen per day between both games.

[Sino]

I don't remember, it was a weird explanation about you and unknown were compensated by Kirigiri being on the other side or something like that. I just wanted to say something.

Honestly, I had to read 10 pages and that conv was just too tedious and just read through it.

That's definetely something you should read now that they're both in here.

[M-FM Wildcard]

That's definetely something you should read now that they're both in here.

Who is your prime lynch target today and why?

[Sino]

Who is your prime lynch target today and why?

I guess for now it would be town, just for gis talk about "hard claiming town" when everything he said was "hi, i'm town" am I the only one who doesn't see any claim in that post ? I don't get how you can see this as a hard claim, maybe a soft one, at best.

I also would have no problem lynching badass, he still didn't tell us anything about his thoughts on what's going on.

What about yours ?

[M-FM Wildcard]

I'm not sure if I understand, you want to lynch someone because they said they are Town? Is there no other reason?

[Unknown1234]

Lol, didn't even know mafia have a 24/7 chat till now. I'm gonna read more.

[Sino]

I'm not sure if I understand, you want to lynch someone because they said they are Town? Is there no other reason?

No, he said he hard claimed being town, do you see a hard claim in his post ? It's 171 in the previous topic

[Unknown1234]

I don't remember, it was a weird explanation about you and unknown were compensated by Kirigiri being on the other side or something like that. I just wanted to say something.

Honestly, I had to read 10 pages and that conv was just too tedious and just read through it.

why didn't you explain this when you were asked the first time? Why didn't you explain it when you realized half of it was deleted?

[M-FM Wildcard]

No, he said he hard claimed being town, do you see a hard claim in his post ? It's 171 in the previous topic

Technically that is hard claiming Town. Not hard claiming his role, but definitely saying exactly what you mean is a hard claim.

Soft claiming is subtly hinting (like saying "beep beep" a bunch of times as Bus Driver).

[Sino]

Technically that is hard claiming Town. Not hard claiming his role, but definitely saying exactly what you mean is a hard claim.

Soft claiming is subtly hinting (like saying "beep beep" a bunch of times as Bus Driver).

I'd agree it would be the case if his name didn't happen to be "M-FM Town"

[Unknown1234]

Sino is agreeing quite a lot right now. Not to mention this weird push, but he seems to actually have no argument and wants to follow the popular opinion.

[M-FM Wildcard]

I'd agree it would be the case if his name didn't happen to be "M-FM Town"

Yes, obviously his claim means absolutely nothing and should be treated as if it's nothing. I just don't see how claiming Town is grounds to be lynched, especially to make it to the top of your lynch list solely for that reason.

[Sino]

Sino is agreeing quite a lot right now. Not to mention this weird push, but he seems to actually have no argument and wants to follow the popular opinion.

I'm sorry, i didn't know the popular opinion was to lynch town....

[Sino]

Yes, obviously his claim means absolutely nothing and should be treated as if it's nothing. I just don't see how claiming Town is grounds to be lynched, especially to make it to the top of your lynch list solely for that reason.

To me, a hard claim can only be read in one way, it turns out you can read that as "i claim i am town" or "hi, my name is town"

I have no problem with the post in itself, i have a problem with the fact he called that a hardclaim.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Sino is agreeing quite a lot right now. Not to mention this weird push, but he seems to actually have no argument and wants to follow the popular opinion.

I agree, I have been getting the same vibes for a while now. I'm going to go back and try to get more reads from him from pre-game, see if there is any substance in the posts or not. But I do agree that he's following popular opinion and trying to stay out of the line of sights of the active players in the chat.

I also feel that his explanation on Town was just created when I questioned him, as though he hasn't actually been considering scum hunting. For someone as active as him, I expected a post similar to my reads on deathworlds & Badass when I asked him who he wants to lynch. Almost seems like a cop out.

[Unknown1234]

Sino, what you are doing is essentially trying to force out a roleclaim. I don't know why you think what he said was scummy but it isn't helping town at all.

[Unknown1234]

I'm sorry, i didn't know the popular opinion was to lynch town....

You said clear as the sky that you were willing to lynch deathworlds, Badass, Quick, AND Town. (The only people being considered for lynches).

[M-FM Town]

Lol.

What if we're all town in this Universe?

Hehe

[Sino]

Sino, what you are doing is essentially trying to force out a roleclaim. I don't know why you think what he said was scummy but it isn't helping town at all.

I'm just explaining why i don't consider his post a hard claim.

On the other hand Unknwown, what have you done since we're all here ? how am i following the popular opinion, when i'm more in a Town lynch vs a Badass lynch, all of this just feels like you were waiting for someone to get an easy push on and get away with it.

You never said who you're willing to lynch, despite Wildcard's question that was adressed to all of us.

[Sino]

You said clear as the sky that you were willing to lynch deathworlds, Badass, Quick, AND Town. (The only people being considered for lynches).

When i was talking about lynching Quick and Town at first, it was because of their inactivity, now i'm on something else, please stay updated instead of coming up with such posts

[Unknown1234]

I'm just explaining why i don't consider his post a hard claim.

On the other hand Unknwown, what have you done since we're all here ? how am i following the popular opinion, when i'm more in a Town lynch vs a Badass lynch, all of this just feels like you were waiting for someone to get an easy push on and get away with it.

You never said who you're willing to lynch, despite Wildcard's question that was adressed to all of us.

Explain one good scum-read that you have.

If you want to try to throw the blame on me, I have yet to encourage a lynch on anyone other than Wildcard early on and now Badass. Also, last post makes no sense. If i wanted an easy lynch, I wouldn't have been arguing against deathworlds lynch, and now this argument with you.

I made it clear who I do and do not want lynched. You on the other hand, did NOT say you wouldn't lynch Town and Quick, clearly explaining that you would be okay lynching any of the easy/popular picks.

Where are your town-reads? How come you just did a double take when I started being suspicious of you?

[M-FM Moogle]

I don't remember, it was a weird explanation about you and unknown were compensated by Kirigiri being on the other side or something like that. I just wanted to say something.

Honestly, I had to read 10 pages and that conv was just too tedious and just read through it.

How much experience do you have playing mafia? I'm trying to decide if you are a scummy newb or an awkward scum.

[Unknown1234]

Lol.

What if we're all town in this Universe?

Hehe

I think that would ruin the game entirely, considering we could not scum-hunt people at this point.

I hope Cruise is being lynched TBH, unless he is doing better than he did day 1.

[Unknown1234]

Moogle, why are you on invisible?

[M-FM Wildcard]

I do have some troubles with Sino in pre-game actually.


[irl=http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/38195-M-FM-Fringe-Day-1?p=645356&viewfull=1#post645356]Post 70[/url]

As you said, it's allowed, so they might also not care that much about their plays this early

I'm probably reading too much into this post, or reading it with bias, but I could definitely see this as giving scum excuses. It also throws shade on any Town that might be coming to early conclusion in the game. I don't really get a pro-town feeling from this post. Doesn't seem like it benefits Town at all, only hurts them. It gives me the feel of a pro-scum post, to be quite honest.

After this post, such as Post 98 (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/38195-M-FM-Fringe-Day-1?p=645385&viewfull=1#post645385), Sino seems to post a lot regarding on how scum is going to act. I don't really see this to be beneficial for Town, but having it publicly known what people are looking for definitely can instruct Scum on how not to act. I read this as another pro-scum post.

In Post 113 (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/38195-M-FM-Fringe-Day-1?p=645400&viewfull=1#post645400), Sino definitely shows a few more town points (in my eyes). He states his opinion about wanting to get rid of lurkers (not indicative of Town, but it helps), and how RVS does lead to discussion even if votes do not count as it leads to discussion. However, he kind of slides away from pro-Town as he never really engages in the RVS to encourage the discussion he is preaching.

Post 132 (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/38195-M-FM-Fringe-Day-1?p=645419&viewfull=1#post645419), Sino gains some actual Town Cred from me, as he is actively pushing to force discussion, and get reads out. Post 142 (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/38195-M-FM-Fringe-Day-1?p=645429&viewfull=1#post645429) reads along the same lines. However, I kind of see a double standard here, as I never see Sino's reads anywhere in the thread. If there is a read, it's usually a one liner, not much thought put into it.

Sino finally offers up reads in Post 169 (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/38195-M-FM-Fringe-Day-1?p=645458&viewfull=1#post645458) :

I don't like Yes' behavior, Kool-Aid also seems fishy, he tells us he's not a native speaker and new to this site but has no problem insulting people at the beginning of the game.

We still have yet to hear about 5 players if i'm not mistaken : Town, Cruise Elroy, On Time, Quick and AnassRhamur, i would have liked to read something from them.
Basically the same kind of reads we are getting in our thread, regarding his read on M-FM Town. He really offers no window into his train of thought. However, I do give him some town cred for taking the time to post the players who have not yet posted; I'm not entirely sure scum would read into the game that much for those names.



That is my overview on Sino in pre-game. It's not very good looking, but frankly I was reading those with bias. If he (or anyone else) wants to refute my opinion on a post, I would gladly like to read them.

[M-FM Wildcard]

I think that would ruin the game entirely, considering we could not scum-hunt people at this point.

I hope Cruise is being lynched TBH, unless he is doing better than he did day 1.

It would also break it because Scum would basically have majority in the other universe and would collapse it so quickly lol

[M-FM Moogle]

Lol, didn't even know mafia have a 24/7 chat till now. I'm gonna read more.

What is the point of this post? It reeks of trying to fake a townslip. It's the first thing I've seen from you that makes me second guess my townread.

[M-FM Moogle]

No, he said he hard claimed being town, do you see a hard claim in his post ? It's 171 in the previous topic

I read that post and he said Hi, I'm Town. That is a hardclaim of Town. I consider it a null tell when people do that. Why is it scum? Have you seen scum do this before?

[M-FM Moogle]

Moogle, why are you on invisible?

Because I always do that in every game I play.

[Unknown1234]

What is the point of this post? It reeks of trying to fake a townslip. It's the first thing I've seen from you that makes me second guess my townread.

Sino brought it up in one of the posts he said before that. I would rather announced that I haven't read the setup clearly and go do that, then opposed to making mistakes about what I'm saying if i don't know the setup.

[M-FM Town]

It would also break it because Scum would basically have majority in the other universe and would collapse it so quickly lol

There's like 3+1 scum right? That's 4/9 not even majority if they combined forces right?

It'd be a weird mind game is what I'm saying.

I'm Town reading most of you in this thread, no scum reads, which is why I mention the possibility.

[Sino]

Explain one good scum-read that you have.

If you want to try to throw the blame on me, I have yet to encourage a lynch on anyone other than Wildcard early on and now Badass. Also, last post makes no sense. If i wanted an easy lynch, I wouldn't have been arguing against deathworlds lynch, and now this argument with you.

That's exactly my point, WHERE are you arguing against deathworld's lynch IN THIS THREAD ? you might have had some opinion before the split, i fail to see any after it, you've also not been pushing Badass.



I made it clear who I do and do not want lynched. You on the other hand, did NOT say you wouldn't lynch Town and Quick, clearly explaining that you would be okay lynching any of the easy/popular picks.

Again, since the split, where ?


Where are your town-reads? How come you just did a double take when I started being suspicious of you?

I'm leaning town on Wildcard and Moogle atm, Moogle doesn't post that much, but i read his earlier post (22) as town

Now here's everything you said Unknown :


Whoops, almost couldn't find this. Hi Sino.


Unfortunate to say, but the majority of evils will likely be lurkers. Might be a good place to start... if they show up.

Otherwise, we can wait if we don't get a good lynch and (maybe) hope the other Universe is doing better than us. Stuff to think about.


I don't know, I'm a phone poster most of the time so don't know.


I like how you claim you deleted half of it, but then you don't add that half again.


What is Badass doing?


All Badass did was make a comment and claim he "deleted half of it" the made if very clear that he read my question because he responded to a later post saying "lurking is not AI".

Defending his lurking play>explaining weird posts/answering questions.


That made it very clear* oops.


We have 34 hours before we even know if our universe will get a lynch off. Not In a huge rush.

This is fishy, what does this mean ? We shouldn't vote ?


Sino what's your case on deathworlds?


Lol, didn't even know mafia have a 24/7 chat till now. I'm gonna read more.


why didn't you explain this when you were asked the first time? Why didn't you explain it when you realized half of it was deleted?


Sino is agreeing quite a lot right now. Not to mention this weird push, but he seems to actually have no argument and wants to follow the popular opinion.


Sino, what you are doing is essentially trying to force out a roleclaim. I don't know why you think what he said was scummy but it isn't helping town at all.


You said clear as the sky that you were willing to lynch deathworlds, Badass, Quick, AND Town. (The only people being considered for lynches).

Where are your scum and town reads ?

[M-FM Badass]

I can give you a quick explanation.
It is 1 setup split between 2 smaller games. There are roles that can jump between Universes (games) and roles that and move players between them.
Out of both the games, whoever has the most votes gets lynched. Therefore, if we have 4 votes on a player, and the other game has 5 votes on a player, our lynch does not occur. Only 1 lynch can happen per day between both games.

I see. Something that comes to my mind is that we lynch all mafia here but as we don't know if that has happened or not we continue lynching innocent people as, in my opinion, we'll seek people to lynch constantly.

[Unknown1234]

That's exactly my point, WHERE are you arguing against deathworld's lynch IN THIS THREAD ? you might have had some opinion before the split, i fail to see any after it, you've also not been pushing Badass.




Again, since the split, where ?



I'm leaning town on Wildcard and Moogle atm, Moogle doesn't post that much, but i read his earlier post (22) as town

Now here's everything you said Unknown :

















This is fishy, what does this mean ? We shouldn't vote ?













Where are your scum and town reads ?

I haven't had to say anything against deathworlds in this thread because he hasn't even shown up, and a case hasn't been brought up yet. You can't argue something when people are barely even suggesting a lynch.

I was saying that you haven't shown any reason in particular that you should be town-reading someone. Basically all you did was agree with the general opinion and agree to lynch the people who are easy choices without explanation. Now you are just attacking me out of nowhere. Also, why is Moogles post (22) townie to you?

By saying that it is fishy, that is an obvious frame job. I NEVER said to not lynch anyone. You couldn't get a lynch off before the timer anyways, so why should people become close-minded and all stack votes on someone?

Just because i don't use make a list, if I am actively questioning players and saying what they are doing is suspicious/normal, than I think it's fair to assume they are who I questioned.

[M-FM Wildcard]

I see. Something that comes to my mind is that we lynch all mafia here but as we don't know if that has happened or not we continue lynching innocent people as, in my opinion, we'll seek people to lynch constantly.

That's a good point, but the lack of a night kill might help us in that. We might only have 1 miss lynch. And if we're successfully getting enough lynches off to eliminate the Mafia, the other Universe will have more players total (since they won't be getting lynches off), and then they will be more likely to get lynches off over our universe.

[Unknown1234]

Sino has completely switched gears from innocent to aggressive towards me since I started questioning him. This is the type of reaction I look for.

[M-FM Badass]

Badass, who do you want to vote today?
And also Town, who would choose to vote today if you had to choose.

As for now, I'm not disliking anyone except for Town, maybe, for his ridiculous Mesky type of play.

[Unknown1234]

That's a good point, but the lack of a night kill might help us in that. We might only have 1 miss lynch. And if we're successfully getting enough lynches off to eliminate the Mafia, the other Universe will have more players total (since they won't be getting lynches off), and then they will be more likely to get lynches off over our universe.

The system is meant to balance itself, which works out rather well.

[Unknown1234]

As for now, I'm not disliking anyone except for Town, maybe, for his ridiculous Mesky type of play.

I am noting the fact that you use "dislike" instead of scum-read.

[M-FM Badass]

That's a good point, but the lack of a night kill might help us in that. We might only have 1 miss lynch. And if we're successfully getting enough lynches off to eliminate the Mafia, the other Universe will have more players total (since they won't be getting lynches off), and then they will be more likely to get lynches off over our universe.

The thing is, mafia could just stop killing and make us start to question whether if they're alive or not. However, I guess universes are equilibrated because if not, one universe could be too easy for mafia to manipulate.

[M-FM Badass]

I am noting the fact that you use "dislike" instead of scum-read.

Basically because I don't "scum-read" the type of play, but saying "I'm town" and things like that on first post makes me quite uncomfortable.

[Sino]

I was saying that you haven't shown any reason in particular that you should be town-reading someone. Basically all you did was agree with the general opinion and agree to lynch the people who are easy choices without explanation. Now you are just attacking me out of nowhere. Also, why is Moogles post (22) townie to you?

I gave an explanation about Town, if you're claiming to do something when in my opinion you're not doing it, that's enough of a reason to try to look further


By saying that it is fishy, that is an obvious frame job. I NEVER said to not lynch anyone. You couldn't get a lynch off before the timer anyways, so why should people become close-minded and all stack votes on someone?

Just because i don't use make a list, if I am actively questioning players and saying what they are doing is suspicious/normal, than I think it's fair to assume they are who I questioned.

Because that's the only way to pressure people, why wouldn't people want to stack votes against a player when you actually don't have the hammer risk ?

[M-FM Wildcard]

I am noting the fact that you use "dislike" instead of scum-read.

But.. you used "least favorite" instead of "most scummy".

[M-FM Wildcard]

To be honest, while this would really destroy us if he flipped town, I wouldn't mind pushing a lynch on Sino today even.

[M-FM Moogle]

Well at this point I don't want to lynch Wildcard, Unknown, or Sino.

I really hope Quick and On Time just get replaced because lynching one of them would give us no info. whatsoever but I'd be willing to do it if we had no other options.

I am pretty nullish overall on Town but I do like that they are making waves.

If deathworlds doesn't post more, I'd be fine running him up. Making excuses not to post and set up spec isn't exactly pro-town behavior. Badass is pretty awkward and seems uncomfortable as well. Unless there is something like new player or language barrier, I'd say he is a good lynch option as well.

[M-FM Moogle]

To be honest, while this would really destroy us if he flipped town, I wouldn't mind pushing a lynch on Sino today even.

Why?

[M-FM Wildcard]

Why?

Well, for one, how he acted during pre-game (I made a long post regarding it).
Second, when I asked him who he would lynch today and why, the only thing he could come up with is Town because he claimed Town. I don't see that as a legitimate reason to have someone at the TOP of your lynching list. I mean, sure, you can have a negative outlook on the guy for it, but to that be your strongest read? Seems unlikely, especially with how many posts the guy has in the game. He is active, his read should be stronger than that.

I also find that he tries to appease players in the game, especially active players. I take this as a sign to try not to have the active players pushing on him.

Also, I responded to your post a while ago regarding Sino, not sure if you read it or not:

You're right to be unsure about Sino and me, as I will admit that I am definitely not sure with him. However, he posts enough that I am hoping that I can get accurate reads without pushing directly on him. I feel that there are more important players to push currently, like you and deathworlds (hence the question towards you two). I will agree that I am kind of suspicious of Sino. I find that he does post a lot, but I haven't seen a high level of scum hunting, nor anything else that stands out as pro-town discusion. A lot of complaints, ect, which are easy to do while scum.

[Sino]

Also, why is Moogles post (22) townie to you?


Sure, but why only ask us to do that? Are you currently scumreading us based on the number of posts in this game so far or are you looking at our posts themselves to figure it out?

I don't think scum would ask such a question

[M-FM Town]

Day and a half left.

I'm going to reread the setup and notes dump as soon as I'm back home.

I suggest everyone do the same.

(Also suggest everyone who hasn't yet done so to hard claim Town. Sue me.)

[M-FM Wildcard]

Also, I've made a few anti-Sino posts now... like 4... yet Sino won't engage the posts. I'm not exactly sure why, he's avoiding the conversation completely with me. I mean, I definitely haven't directed anything towards him directly, but you'd think he'd want to set the record straight and counter the points I'm making.

[Sino]

Second, when I asked him who he would lynch today and why, the only thing he could come up with is Town because he claimed Town. I don't see that as a legitimate reason to have someone at the TOP of your lynching list. I mean, sure, you can have a negative outlook on the guy for it, but to that be your strongest read? Seems unlikely, especially with how many posts the guy has in the game. He is active, his read should be stronger than that.

Saying this just means you didn't understand my earlier post, this one :


I have no problem with the post in itself, i have a problem with the fact he called that a hardclaim.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Also, can I get a Doctor/BG/BD on me tonight please? It would be tragic if we lose our active players, and I'd like to be here tomorrow.

[Sino]

I also find that he tries to appease players in the game, especially active players. I take this as a sign to try not to have the active players pushing on him.

Still think so ?

[M-FM Wildcard]

Saying this just means you didn't understand my earlier post, this one :

So, he's number one on your lynch list due to semantics? I mean, he called it a hard claim and that is your #1 scum read in the entire game?

[M-FM Wildcard]

Still think so ?

Well, you start doing the opposite after it was brought up, so it is hard to say what the cause was.

[Sino]

So, he's number one on your lynch list due to semantics? I mean, he called it a hard claim and that is your #1 scum read in the entire game?

Not anymore it seems, my interaction with Unknown changed that, i find it also weird you don't even mention that to try to get a better read out of me.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Not anymore it seems, my interaction with Unknown changed that, i find it also weird you don't even mention that to try to get a better read out of me.

So Unknown is your biggest lynch target now?
Can you give a detailed read on him then, please?

[Unknown1234]

But.. you used "least favorite" instead of "most scummy".

I swear we discussed this earlier though. It was probably early game, in which I didn't have any strong scum reads at that point. This happens a lot with my communication though, because I am aware that my word choice sometimes makes me seem scummy.

I once called myself "probably Town" when I was Town, so I do send out miss communications a lot. If he has a good reason why he said "dislike" then I could understand, but not having strong reads right now isn't beneficial.

[Unknown1234]

Also, can I get a Doctor/BG/BD on me tonight please? It would be tragic if we lose our active players, and I'd like to be here tomorrow.

It's a crime that you said this.

[Sino]

I made it clear who I do and do not want lynched.

Did he ? He still didn't answer your question of who people would want to lynch


You said clear as the sky that you were willing to lynch deathworlds, Badass, Quick, AND Town. (The only people being considered for lynches).

So here he used my willingness to lynch lurkers at the beginning of the thread against me when the situation had changed, at this point i had no intent of lynching Quick anymore, for example.


We have 34 hours before we even know if our universe will get a lynch off. Not In a huge rush.

Again, i don't see the point of this post, to me he's just asking people not to vote.


so why should people become close-minded and all stack votes on someone?

As i said, i'd rather ask why not ? What problem would a townie have with a vote stacking ?

[Unknown1234]

Lol, that statement makes WildCard more likely to be town. It's a dumb thing to say though, because you either make yourself not a target anymore, or you make people think you won't get attacked and then do get attacked. It's better not to say anything.

[Sino]

So Unknown is your biggest lynch target now?
Can you give a detailed read on him then, please?

I posted 133 in response to this

[M-FM Wildcard]

It's a crime that you said this.

Actually, it's called WIFOM, brother.

[M-FM Wildcard]

I swear we discussed this earlier though. It was probably early game, in which I didn't have any strong scum reads at that point. This happens a lot with my communication though, because I am aware that my word choice sometimes makes me seem scummy.

I once called myself "probably Town" when I was Town, so I do send out miss communications a lot. If he has a good reason why he said "dislike" then I could understand, but not having strong reads right now isn't beneficial.

I'm just nitpicking :smile:

[Unknown1234]

Did he ? He still didn't answer your question of who people would want to lynch



So here he used my willingness to lynch lurkers at the beginning of the thread against me when the situation had changed, at this point i had no intent of lynching Quick anymore, for example.



Again, i don't see the point of this post, to me he's just asking people not to vote.



As i said, i'd rather ask why not ? What problem would a townie have with a vote stacking ?

I have indirectly answered this question, making it clear I would be happy lynching you and Badass, and maybe Town if he does not keep up with his promises.

How do you expect anyone to know that you don't want to lynch them if you don't say that your opinion has changed? Also, saying that it was "early in the thread" is stretching it.

I just explained this, and it's in the next post you quoted. Stacking votes makes people LESS inclined to vote because you don't see a chance of having another lynch occur. You also critique yourself by not voting me, your strongest scum-read.

See above.

Why do you only comment on my posts being scummy when it is in your best interest to discredit whoever becomes suspicious of you? How come this wasn't a problem before our interaction? Answer: you are trying to make me look suspicious and completely changed your mood to attack me.

[Sino]

Also, can I get a Doctor/BG/BD on me tonight please? It would be tragic if we lose our active players, and I'd like to be here tomorrow.

To me it's some kind of way of saying "look at how useful i am this game", definetely something weird to say.

[M-FM Town]

Actually, it's called WIFOM, brother.

I will keep you and your WIFOM safe.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Did he ? He still didn't answer your question of who people would want to lynch

So here he used my willingness to lynch lurkers at the beginning of the thread against me when the situation had changed, at this point i had no intent of lynching Quick anymore, for example.

Again, i don't see the point of this post, to me he's just asking people not to vote.

As i said, i'd rather ask why not ? What problem would a townie have with a vote stacking ?

So, the reason you think Unknown is scum is:

1) He didn't give reads, while you didn't either. Plus, I only asked 3 people, and Unknown wasn't one of them. At least, I don't think I made a blanket request to give reads? No on ever responds to those.

2) Fair enough, but at what point in the thread did you voice that you had no intention of lynching Quick anymore? Can you link the post, please?

3) It's fair that you read that as he's trying to get people not to vote, I can understand how you read it that way. Personally, it looks to me that he's only talking about his own vote, but I don't think it's scummy at all that you read that post differently than I do.

4) I think Unknown in that post (correct me if i'm wrong, Unknown) is just saying that we shouldn't tunnel vision on any players, and to keep all our options open for the time being. Spreading out votes creates pressure on multiple players, which gets more reactions and allows scum to relax if we're tunneling on town.


I'm not sure if any of those things are scummy. Not to me at least. You're allowed to have your own reads, I'm not going to take those away from you. I think it's a better reason than you had for wanting to lynch Town, but I still don't think that it's a great excuse for a lynch.

[M-FM Wildcard]

To me it's some kind of way of saying "look at how useful i am this game", definetely something weird to say.

That's fine, take it how you want to take it lol. If you think it's weird, so be it, but I'm going to be the one with the Doctor on me.

[M-FM Wildcard]

I will keep you and your WIFOM safe.

Thanks bb TriHard

[Sino]

I have indirectly answered this question, making it clear I would be happy lynching you and Badass, and maybe Town if he does not keep up with his promises.

Do you have any more explanations about all of them ? I've been asked why i was wanting to lynch people


How do you expect anyone to know that you don't want to lynch them if you don't say that your opinion has changed? Also, saying that it was "early in the thread" is stretching it.

Because i said in the beginning that the problem was inactivity, since then people have been more active and Orpz told us people with 0 posts were gonna be replaced before d1 ends, thus changing the situation


I just explained this, and it's in the next post you quoted. Stacking votes makes people LESS inclined to vote because you don't see a chance of having another lynch occur. You also critique yourself by not voting me, your strongest scum-read.

Why would there less chances of having another lynch when you pointed out we still have a lot of time to change the votes ?


See above.

Why do you only comment on my posts being scummy when it is in your best interest to discredit whoever becomes suspicious of you? How come this wasn't a problem before our interaction? Answer: you are trying to make me look suspicious and completely changed your mood to attack me.

That's just not true, if i'm being scumread, my best interest is to give another scumread of my own, not to just discredit what people have been saying.

[Sino]

2) Fair enough, but at what point in the thread did you voice that you had no intention of lynching Quick anymore? Can you link the post, please?

I thought this post would have made it obvious :


Ok, i'm down for a Town, Badass, or deathworlds lynch.

[Unknown1234]

Do you have any more explanations about all of them ? I've been asked why i was wanting to lynch people



Because i said in the beginning that the problem was inactivity, since then people have been more active and Orpz told us people with 0 posts were gonna be replaced before d1 ends, thus changing the situation



Why would there less chances of having another lynch when you pointed out we still have a lot of time to change the votes ?



That's just not true, if i'm being scumread, my best interest is to give another scumread of my own, not to just discredit what people have been saying.

I have explained why I want to lynch people. If you read the game you would know. Just because I didn't say "I scum-read them because..." doesn't mean I don't have reads.

You are scum-read because of your oppourtunistic reads and pushes that don't have any explanation backing them up. You also got super defensive when I questioned one thing about you and suddenly changed your read on me as if the things that made me Town (to you) didn't exist anymore.

Badass because he seems disengaged and only posting for the sake of seeming active. The fact that he has inconsistent thoughts and can't explain the simplest things that he does raises questions to me. Also, I don't see any attempt to scum-hunt right now.

Town seems to be making promises about effort while not even keeping up to these promises. Still not my strongest read, but it also doesn't help that their arrogant attitude seems what I would expect from a scum that is annoyed with the negative attention.

[Unknown1234]

Sino, when WildCard made reasonable responses to your case on me, you didn't even reply and instead decided to argue with me. Whys that?

[M-FM Wildcard]

I thought this post would have made it obvious :

Thanks! You gain town points for being honest about saying you'd no longer vote Quick.

[Sino]

Sino, when WildCard made reasonable responses to your case on me, you didn't even reply and instead decided to argue with me. Whys that?

I did answer to his second point, i have nothing in particular to add to what he said at the moment, you also didn't reply to my question about votes and to my last comment about being scumread.

[Unknown1234]

I did answer to his second point, i have nothing in particular to add to what he said at the moment, you also didn't reply to my question about votes and to my last comment about being scumread.

Don't know what you are talking about.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Sino, I'm not going to lie. You are definitely at the top, or near top, of my choices to lynch today. I don't really want to do that, since you are an active player.

Can you explain to me what actions you have done to promote Town in this game?
Maybe even role claim, because I'm placing my vote on you as it currently stands.

Sino

[Sino]

I'm going off for now, i will claim but not that early.

[M-FM Wildcard]

I'm going off for now, i will claim but not that early.

ok TTYL

[M-FM Wildcard]

Unknown1234
M-FM Moogle
M-FM Town
M-FM Badass
deathworlds
Sino
-----
M-FM On Time
Quick

That is my list of most town to least town, in my eyes currently.

[Unknown1234]

Shit. I might have gotten confused between On time and Town.

[Unknown1234]

I hate invisible accounts, lol. We already 10=
0% know it's someone in this game. Why hide?

[M-FM Town]

Shit. I might have gotten confused between On time and Town.

Lol, yes but it doesn't really matter.

I haven't note dumped or done anything really noteworthy yet anyway.

[Unknown1234]

Lol, yes but it doesn't really matter.

I haven't note dumped or done anything really noteworthy yet anyway.

Now is as good a time as any. Especially when there is nobody here to harass you.

[M-FM Town]

Now is as good a time as any. Especially when there is nobody here to harass you.

I'm not finished taking notes and I'm pretty occupied.

I'll notes dump, there's no rush.

I'd rather interact in real time, but the general low posting isn't really conducive towards that type of a game unfortunately.

I see almost every active poster as town which simplifies this a lot, just kind of a lame game.

[Unknown1234]

Who knows what'll happen TBH. Given the mechanics, I'd expect a few people to be switching around tomorrow which makes it more interesting

[Unknown1234]

Anyone feel like chatting? I like talking

[Unknown1234]

:sheep:

[M-FM Moogle]

Unknown1234
M-FM Moogle
M-FM Town
M-FM Badass
deathworlds
Sino
-----
M-FM On Time
Quick

That is my list of most town to least town, in my eyes currently.

You are voting for sino but he's not at the bottom of your list? Can you explain this please?

[M-FM Moogle]

Anyone feel like chatting? I like talking

Wild moogle appears!

KUPO KUPO!!!!!!!!!! WE ARE INVISIBLE BUT YOU CAN HEAR MY POSTS!!!!!!

[Unknown1234]

Catch the moogle! *eh*

[Unknown1234]

RIP conversation.

[M-FM Moogle]

Catch the moogle! *eh*

I am not a pokemon and can't be caught unless Moogle is really missing no...

[Unknown1234]

Whoops.

[M-FM Badass]

Good morning.

[M-FM Badass]

You are voting for sino but he's not at the bottom of your list? Can you explain this please?

.....? The 2 on the bottom are the players that haven't said anything and cant really be evaluated if not for meta.

[M-FM Badass]

Fuck timezones.

[Sino]

I'm back now

[M-FM Badass]

I'm back now

Hey

[Sino]

Hey

What do you think about all of this ?

[M-FM Badass]

What do you think about all of this ?

What do you mean with all of this?

[Sino]

What do you mean with all of this?

All we said, mostly Unknown, Wildcard and me

[M-FM Badass]

So you want me to "reblog" everyone has said? Would like to answer more specific questions.

[M-FM Wildcard]

You are voting for sino but he's not at the bottom of your list? Can you explain this please?

Because the people below the line (-----) are players I don't have any reads on, due to inactivity. Sorry, I should've clarified that when I posted it.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Hey Badass, how's it going?

[M-FM Wildcard]

That interaction between Moogle & Unknown is strange. I mean, Unknown has no problem talking about the game, and Moogle makes a post about the game (my townie list)... but their interaction with each other is 100% playful and don't even try to have game-related conversation with each other at all. Not even a question or an opinion.

[Sino]

So you want me to "reblog" everyone has said? Would like to answer more specific questions.

I just want you to give your opinion about my exchanges with Unknown and Wildcard, not to reblog everything, but what do you think about it ?

[M-FM Wildcard]

Sino
you think Unknown is Mafia, correct? Or do you think he's William Bell?

[Sino]

Sino
you think Unknown is Mafia, correct? Or do you think he's William Bell?

That's not easy to say, i'd probably lean more towards mafia, but only because i think mafia members would try to interact as little as possible here, seeing as they have their own chat, they might be fearing people notice their interactions are fake, while William Bell wouldn't have to worry about that.

I can also guarantee you there's gonna be at least one mafia vote on me if votes end up stacking on me, as i see it now, probably Unknown and one of the less active players.

[Unknown1234]

I don't know how you can honestly say I'm not interacting with people.

[M-FM Wildcard]

That's not easy to say, i'd probably lean more towards mafia, but only because i think mafia members would try to interact as little as possible here, seeing as they have their own chat, they might be fearing people notice their interactions are fake, while William Bell wouldn't have to worry about that.

I can also guarantee you there's gonna be at least one mafia vote on me if votes end up stacking on me, as i see it now, probably Unknown and one of the less active players.


So, if you're leaning Mafia, who do you think his teammates are?

[Unknown1234]

So, if you're leaning Mafia, who do you think his teammates are?

By asking this question, are you assuming there is more than one scum in this pool? Otherwise, finding associations from day 1 before the switch is quite difficult.

[Unknown1234]

Wildcard why am I your strongest town-read? Why is Sino your strongest scum-read.

[M-FM Wildcard]

By asking this question, are you assuming there is more than one scum in this pool? Otherwise, finding associations from day 1 before the switch is quite difficult.

Part of my question to him was to see his assumption to the question you're posing.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Wildcard why am I your strongest town-read? Why is Sino your strongest scum-read.

Both have been stated many times throughout the thread, in great detail & long posts. I'm not sure I understand why you need to re-ask something like this.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Unknown, you really need to stop questioning people's questions until they're answered. This is the second time you have hindered my scum hunting attempts, and it's getting rather frustrating.

[M-FM Wildcard]

deathworlds it's been more than 13 hours, where the fuck are you at

[Unknown1234]

Because I like to talk, and I'd rather understand why you ask a question opposed to letting it slip. It's noted for observation. I'd rather you ask me something as well, lol.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Because I like to talk, and I'd rather understand why you ask a question opposed to letting it slip. It's noted for observation. I'd rather you ask me something as well, lol.

Well, please just make a note of it. You questioning things like that only help the person who it's directed at by giving them a heads up on things that might be looked for, so they can form their answers to cover all bases. I feel like your question only prevents scum slips.


If you want to talk about something, can you give me your read on Moogle and Sino? Not just 1 liners, please.

[Sino]

So, if you're leaning Mafia, who do you think his teammates are?

Probably one of the less active players, maybe even those who didn't post at all yet, I can't tell.

Btw, i hope they'll be replaced soon enough

[M-FM Wildcard]

And by note of it, I mean make a note to remind yourself to come back and question me on it later. Cause I definitely don't mind answer the question myself.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Probably one of the less active players, maybe even those who didn't post at all yet, I can't tell.

Btw, i hope they'll be replaced soon enough

So you think there is just 1 other Mafia in our Universe? What prevents you from thinking there are 3 Mafia in our Universe?


Can you also give a read on Moogle, please?

[M-FM Wildcard]

Also, can everyone start placing votes? Everyone should have a vote down, even if only a place holder vote.

[M-FM Wildcard]

OrpZed
Are you working on replacements for us :smile"? You said before the end of the day, and we have 3 people who haven't even posted since Universes split.

[M-FM Moogle]

That interaction between Moogle & Unknown is strange. I mean, Unknown has no problem talking about the game, and Moogle makes a post about the game (my townie list)... but their interaction with each other is 100% playful and don't even try to have game-related conversation with each other at all. Not even a question or an opinion.

I can often read people in a game based on how they react to playfulness. Scum have a lot harder time being natural and joking around for the most part and also concentrate on giving reads and playing the game. Sometimes it falls flat and is ignored and there really isn't much I can do about that. Other times, I can maybe help solidify a read.

As far as the gamestate is concerned, it's pretty much you, sino, unknown running the game and I have a townread on all of you so I'm o.k with that although I'd love to hear from the non/low posters. I'm hoping we get good replacements for the two missing. Town I'd like to see more from, but don't really have an issue with what they've posted so far. Really hope deathworlds posts more or badass does some actual scumhunting or something. Otherwise, I'm voting one of them.

I agree that pre-flip associations are pretty much worthless in any game and that answering a question for someone else prevents that person being questioned from possibly slipping.

Town to Scum:

Wildcard-active, giving reads, trying to game solve
Unknown-active, questioning and pushing people
Sino-response to pressure is to fight back and not appease, plus active and questioning
Town-needs to post more but making waves
deathworlds-no posting today in new universe and making excuses in old one plus set up spec, leaning scum
badass-unhelpful and unwilling to talk, anti-town or scum

On Time-no posts
Quick-no posts

Without being able to place On Time and Quick, it makes it much harder to do a town to scum list but here's where I'm at right now.

[Sino]

So you think there is just 1 other Mafia in our Universe? What prevents you from thinking there are 3 Mafia in our Universe?

That's a question about the setup i asked in the previous thread, in terms of balance for the game, it wouldn't make much sense to have a 3-1 scum repartition, especially with the shared lynch, and remember we were not randomly assigned to the universes.


Can you also give a read on Moogle, please?

I'm currently town reading him for two posts :

22 and 100 are coming from a town perspective to me, i don't think a scum would have posted 100, fearing to draw to much attention to himself.

That's pretty much everything i have on him at the moment.

[M-FM Moogle]

badass

[Unknown1234]

I'm just deciding right now if this is super defensive Sino right now. I'm worried that even if he is Town he'll be too focused pushing me (active town) regardless.

[M-FM Moogle]

M-FM Badass

fixed the vote

And yeah, I honestly don't know sino that well and how he plays so if he's defensive as scum, that might be a point worth considering.

[Unknown1234]

Sino hasn't play a ton, but from the three games I played with him, he always gets pissed off when somebody starts to question him. Anti-town at most, especially because I go from top town to top scum and that his opinion on how I've acted has changed that much.

[M-FM Moogle]

Yikes, I sort of do that too. Not so much the questioning but if I'm getting pushed as scum, I tend to be OMGUS-y back regardless of alignment. Could be one of the things I am town reading sino for is just a null tell for him. Some people just don't like being accused.

[Unknown1234]

To answer the question, I don't have a good read on Moogle at all. But Sino:

-Has completely attacked me since I started questioning him.
-Has been extremely friendly with those who agree with him
-When a lynch on a inactive player seemed out of reach due to OrpZed's feedback, he decided to push people that everyone had already announced they were suspicious of (except me, in which it's a defensive attack on me)

Pro side- Town Sino likes to ask questions A LOT, and they aren't usually the most useful questions. Although, I havent really seen his scum play but I doubt it would be polished because he's never been scum before.

[M-FM Moogle]

Here's my view on defensiveness overall: While it can be done as scum, I find it to be more town-like. Mostly because scum know the person is right and are really self-aware and back down or don't question or if they do get defensive and question it, then they just discredit the argument without putting up a couterpoint or anything else.

[Sino]

To answer the question, I don't have a good read on Moogle at all. But Sino:

-Has completely attacked me since I started questioning him.
-Has been extremely friendly with those who agree with him
-When a lynch on a inactive player seemed out of reach due to OrpZed's feedback, he decided to push people that everyone had already announced they were suspicious of (except me, in which it's a defensive attack on me)

Pro side- Town Sino likes to ask questions A LOT, and they aren't usually the most useful questions. Although, I havent really seen his scum play but I doubt it would be polished because he's never been scum before.

I agree with your first point but :


-Has been extremely friendly with those who agree with him

You're the only one i can be described not being friendly with, what's that supposed to mean ?


-When a lynch on a inactive player seemed out of reach due to OrpZed's feedback, he decided to push people that everyone had already announced they were suspicious of (except me, in which it's a defensive attack on me)

I don't remember seeing everyone announcing they're suspicious of Town.

You're always trying to twist the reality into what suits you best, that's what's suspicious about you.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Yikes, I sort of do that too. Not so much the questioning but if I'm getting pushed as scum, I tend to be OMGUS-y back regardless of alignment. Could be one of the things I am town reading sino for is just a null tell for him. Some people just don't like being accused.

This post reads extremely forced to me. y u do this to me, I had good Town read on your before I woke up today.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Here's my view on defensiveness overall: While it can be done as scum, I find it to be more town-like. Mostly because scum know the person is right and are really self-aware and back down or don't question or if they do get defensive and question it, then they just discredit the argument without putting up a couterpoint or anything else.

Can you give your full read on Badass, please?

[Sino]

This post reads extremely forced to me. y u do this to me, I had good Town read on your before I woke up today.

Why does it read forced to you ? Does it look like to you Moogle is trying to just defend me ?

[M-FM Wildcard]

Why does it read forced to you ? Does it look like to you Moogle is trying to just defend me ?

I do see that, but he has stated that he had a town read on you. So, it isn't irrational that he would have a post defending you.

I'm just reading that and it reeks of insincerity. The style of typing does not match the rest of his posts, and really stands out to me. The post itself looks like he tried to word it in a specific way to achieve something, likely to appear Town since he talks about how he acts when he's scum & town.

[M-FM Wildcard]

And not related to that post, I don't see Moogle doing any scum hunting. Which is odd for someone who writes a paragraph or two in his posts.

Also, he had a pretty long defense when I simply stated that I did not like his non-game related interaction with Unknown. I mean, my statement was basically null, could've easily have been ignored. Instead, he wrote his longest post so far in reaction to it.

[Sino]

The post itself looks like he tried to word it in a specific way to achieve something, likely to appear Town since he talks about how he acts when he's scum & town.

That's a good point.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Y'know, it's rare when I get this completely 180 degree turn around for a player so quickly in a game, and I feel like I need to follow my gut on this situation. While I do think that Sino has been acting very suspiciously, he has shown evidence from early game to back up the things he is saying now. He's not hypocritical about his position in the game, which is one of the main things I look for in Mafia. He was just the only person I felt was scummy due to specific reactions.

Even Badass on my list was Town-Leaning.


Going to move my vote over here for the time being.

M-FM Moogle
The active non-contributing, defensive, insincere, Sino-buddying player.

[Unknown1234]

I agree with your first point but :



You're the only one i can be described not being friendly with, what's that supposed to mean ?



I don't remember seeing everyone announcing they're suspicious of Town.

You're always trying to twist the reality into what suits you best, that's what's suspicious about you.

To the second point, I'm saying that you only seem to find the people agreeing with you to be town. Unless you have another reason why you flipped on me (which you admitted to) out of nowhere.

Town and On Time might still be getting mixed up. I'm not wrong about Badass though, I don't remember you saying anything about them until everyone else was.

[Sino]

Y'know, it's rare when I get this completely 180 degree turn around for a player so quickly in a game, and I feel like I need to follow my gut on this situation. While I do think that Sino has been acting very suspiciously, he has shown evidence from early game to back up the things he is saying now. He's not hypocritical about his position in the game, which is one of the main things I look for in Mafia. He was just the only person I felt was scummy due to specific reactions.

Even Badass on my list was Town-Leaning.


Going to move my vote over here for the time being.

M-FM Moogle
The active non-contributing, defensive, insincere, Sino-buddying player.

Interesting, i look forward to see what the others have to say about this, as for myself, i don't see any particular reason for the scum to be buddying me, as it only draws unwanted attention.

[Unknown1234]

M-FM On Time

[Unknown1234]

That's a good point.

This is the shit I meant when you buddy with people. WHY is it a good point?

[Unknown1234]

Unless Sino and Moogle are scum, I'm not following your narrative, WildCard.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Unless Sino and Moogle are scum, I'm not following your narrative, WildCard.

What, it has nothing to do with his relationship with Sino. Only thing I took from his relationship with Sino was that it could be possibly buddying.

[M-FM Wildcard]

M-FM On Time

Can you offer your reads, please?
Placing your first vote on a non-poster seems like the easy way out.

[Sino]

To the second point, I'm saying that you only seem to find the people agreeing with you to be town. Unless you have another reason why you flipped on me (which you admitted to) out of nowhere.

Town and On Time might still be getting mixed up. I'm not wrong about Badass though, I don't remember you saying anything about them until everyone else was.

That's exactly what i mean with twisting the reality, i was the first one to question Badass about his post (17, 18 and 21).

Why do you keep making false statements Unknown ?


This is the shit I meant when you buddy with people. WHY is it a good point?

Because he's right about Moogle talking about his behavior as scum as if he wanted to imply he's town for not behaving in such a way.

[Unknown1234]

What, it has nothing to do with his relationship with Sino. Only thing I took from his relationship with Sino was that it could be possibly buddying.

Why would you buddy someone who had a high chance of lynch? (According to the popular opinion), opposed to just agreeing with everyone else and join on his lynch?

[Unknown1234]

That's exactly what i mean with twisting the reality, i was the first one to question Badass about his post (17, 18 and 21).

Why do you keep making false statements Unknown ?



Because he's right about Moogle talking about his behavior as scum as if he wanted to imply he's town for not behaving in such a way.

I was skeptical of Badass way before the split. Fact check before you falsely call me a liar.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Let me highlight another fact for you guys to follow:


What is the point of this post? It reeks of trying to fake a townslip. It's the first thing I've seen from you that makes me second guess my townread.

From this post, we can know that M-FM Moogle knows the strategy of faking townslips in games.

Then we cross that with these types of examples:

[url=http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/38195-M-FM-Fringe-Day-1?p=645368&viewfull=1#post645368]Post 82, Pregame[/quote]

Agreed, it's not necessarily town but when I've played scum in complex setups before, I usually pay pretty close attention to details so I don't mess up. As town, I usually don't give a rip and jump right in with whatever I want to say.

Defends his stance by saying this is how he plays if he's Town, because if he was scum he'd play different. Not only is this trying to state that he is Town by using his own meta as a defense, but shows he is aware of how he is viewed playing in this game. It doesn't make sense to me that a Town member would be so highly aware about how they are perceived in a game.




And then there is this post:


Yikes, I sort of do that too. Not so much the questioning but if I'm getting pushed as scum, I tend to be OMGUS-y back regardless of alignment. Could be one of the things I am town reading sino for is just a null tell for him. Some people just don't like being accused.

Not only does this post reek of insincerity to me, he once again reiterates how he would act "if we were scum". Essentially using his meta once again to prove that he is Town.



And then the final post of:


Here's my view on defensiveness overall: While it can be done as scum, I find it to be more town-like. Mostly because scum know the person is right and are really self-aware and back down or don't question or if they do get defensive and question it, then they just discredit the argument without putting up a couterpoint or anything else.

He actually states my point that scum are self-aware, which is exactly how he is acting by saying these things. It's actually a good term to use, "self-aware", because that's why his post screams of insincerity to me. It's because it reads as if it was written by someone who is self-aware, as he states scum would be.
If you also combine this quote with the prior quote, it's basically:
"Yikes, I get defensive too. And while it can be done as scum, I find it to be more town-like"

Yet AGAIN trying to state he is Town. Yes, we get it, you understand "Townslips" and are trying to accomplish it.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Why would you buddy someone who had a high chance of lynch? (According to the popular opinion), opposed to just agreeing with everyone else and join on his lynch?

Because when you buddy someone and they flip Town, you appeared to have been on the same wavelength of someone who is Town? That's the point of buddying/bussing, is to look a specific way after role flips.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Why would you buddy someone who had a high chance of lynch? (According to the popular opinion), opposed to just agreeing with everyone else and join on his lynch?

Also, to address the second question..

Why would you want to be viewed as a Sheep instead of being related to a Town member and being thought of as a Free Thinker?

[Sino]

Because when you buddy someone and they flip Town, you appeared to have been on the same wavelength of someone who is Town? That's the point of buddying/bussing, is to look a specific way after role flips.

This implies i'm town.

[M-FM Wildcard]

This implies i'm town.

No, it implies that M-FM Moogle thinks you're Town.
For all I know, you two are Mafia & William Bell and don't realize.

[M-FM Moogle]

Wildcard-You clearly don't understand what a townslip is yourself. A townslip is just that. A slip. Like a friend of mine forgot how many scum were in an open set up we played and the way she posted it made it clear she didn't know. As scum, there's no way she wouldn't know so it was an obvious townslip. When unknown said they weren't aware scum had daychat, it looked like the same thing but I questioned it because it looked forced to me.

At least get your terms straight before you start quoting out of context and twisting my words to say I'm doing something I am not.

As to your other pont, talking about how I play as EITHER alignment is pretty common for me. I said "being pushed as scum" not that I was scum in these instances. I could be either scum or town and behave the same way if I was being pushed as scum. I specifically was saying I am defensive as both alignments and can understand why that was being scumread but I didn't find it scummy. Null at worst. I have no idea how on earth that could be read as anything other that me explaining my townread better.

And yes, I do defend my townreads and I discuss them with other players. It helps me solidify my read better and figure out if the other persons read is genuine or not.

Now, I have to leave but will be back in about an hour to address anything else you want to question me on.

[M-FM Moogle]

Can you give your full read on Badass, please?

I already have, in several posts including my most recent one. You should probably go read them again. I think he's scum for being awkward, not posting much, and being uncooperative. He also isn't really addressing points or answering questions well.

[M-FM Moogle]

No, it implies that M-FM Moogle thinks you're Town.
For all I know, you two are Mafia & William Bell and don't realize.

This post is exactly what you are accusing me of doing. Trying to show that you are town.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Wildcard-You clearly don't understand what a townslip is yourself. A townslip is just that. A slip. Like a friend of mine forgot how many scum were in an open set up we played and the way she posted it made it clear she didn't know. As scum, there's no way she wouldn't know so it was an obvious townslip. When unknown said they weren't aware scum had daychat, it looked like the same thing but I questioned it because it looked forced to me.

I'm just going to respond to this part currently, cause I'm working.
But, wow.
You specifically say that Unknown making that forced post, which technically isn't a "slip", a "townslip". I am using your own semantics to communicate with you. Call it whatever you want, but the point still stands that you are stating things to try to appear Town, and you're the only person who is a repeat offender of this.

[M-FM Wildcard]

I already have, in several posts including my most recent one. You should probably go read them again. I think he's scum for being awkward, not posting much, and being uncooperative. He also isn't really addressing points or answering questions well.

You posted one line, gr8 job.

[M-FM Wildcard]

This post is exactly what you are accusing me of doing. Trying to show that you are town.

LOL please explain how? I really love how defensive you're getting.
I never once stated in that entire sentence that I am Town, and never even referred to myself in the situation.

If you're stating that I'm saying I'm Town because I stated that you two could possibly be 1 Mafia + William Bell, then you're grasping at straws. I'm just stating that two players can both be scum and not aligned to each other. Do you get the point now? It was quite a simple one.

[M-FM Moogle]

Is there some reason you are suddenly becoming so antagonistic? No I posted more than one line explaining my reads.

Don't appreciate you twisting my words around and saying I'm doing things I'm not.

Anyway, I gotta go for a bit.

[M-FM Wildcard]

You know what, I will just respond to this now:


Wildcard-You clearly don't understand what a townslip is yourself. A townslip is just that. A slip. Like a friend of mine forgot how many scum were in an open set up we played and the way she posted it made it clear she didn't know. As scum, there's no way she wouldn't know so it was an obvious townslip. When unknown said they weren't aware scum had daychat, it looked like the same thing but I questioned it because it looked forced to me.

At least get your terms straight before you start quoting out of context and twisting my words to say I'm doing something I am not.

As to your other pont, talking about how I play as EITHER alignment is pretty common for me. I said "being pushed as scum" not that I was scum in these instances. I could be either scum or town and behave the same way if I was being pushed as scum. I specifically was saying I am defensive as both alignments and can understand why that was being scumread but I didn't find it scummy. Null at worst. I have no idea how on earth that could be read as anything other that me explaining my townread better.

And yes, I do defend my townreads and I discuss them with other players. It helps me solidify my read better and figure out if the other persons read is genuine or not.

Now, I have to leave but will be back in about an hour to address anything else you want to question me on.

"Wow, you clearly don't know what a Town Slip is.. A Town slip has to be done by accident. It doesn't matter that I stated Unknown made a forced comment that I called a Town Slip. Even if you're using it the same way I used it, you are using it wrong and your post doesn't matter."
How about you respond to my argument instead of attack my semantics and my argument (which is the same semantics you used), which is a logical fallacy. AKA you have no defense so you resort to fallacies, it's a sad pit that scum easily fall into.

You used the term first. So, maybe YOU should get your terms right.

Dude, are you kidding me? I accuse you of using Meta to prove yourself as Town. And what do you do in return? You once again use meta to say this is common for you. I don't give a shit about your meta, or what you usually do, or what you've done before. All that matters is what you're doing in this game, and it's trying to prove yourself as Town reasons that could be completely fabricated. While I do see a point of miscommunication was made in that paragraph, it doesn't negate the rest of the argument. You still are guilty of what I'm accusing you of.

What does that have to do with anything I said?

[M-FM Wildcard]

Is there some reason you are suddenly becoming so antagonistic? No I posted more than one line explaining my reads.

Don't appreciate you twisting my words around and saying I'm doing things I'm not.

Anyway, I gotta go for a bit.

I'm becoming Hostile because your reaction to my pressure is:
1) You post where you respond to my accusation on you is full of hostility; I am solely returning the hostility.
2) You attack my semantics, which are semantics you used (congratulations, you're a hypocrite. If you look back, I say that hypocrisy is the main thing I look for while scum hunting).
3) You only have a defense to one part of my insinuation, and you feel like that is enough to ignore the rest of my post. It's not.

Bonus:
4) You accuse me of twisting your words, but please show which words I twisted? If anything, you are attempting to twist my words for accusing me of using "townslip" wrong when I used it the same way you used it.

[M-FM Wildcard]

If someone would be willing to offer their insight to Me vs Moogle, it'd be appreciated.
Or if someone wants to reiterate the points one side of the other is making, so that we can get on the same page or clear up and misinformation.


Personally, I'd appreciate the support votes on Moogle in hopes we can get at least a role claim today.

[M-FM Moogle]

I think you are being a dick and word twisting and your entire demeanor has changed when you smell a good mislynch opportunity. I've see scum do this many, many times so now we find out your alignment as well.

Unless you have a specific question for me I haven't answered, I'm not getting into a semantic battle or a battle over what is or isn't hypocrisy or putting up with your word twisting either. And nope, I won't get into tunnel shit either so you can push my mislynch even harder for your own gain. You just revealed yourself as scum. Good job.

If you are so confident I am scum, let's 1v1-you go or I go today. Let's go!!

[M-FM Wildcard]

[M-FM Moogle]

F-M Wildcard

Sorry, screwed up the vote.

[M-FM Wildcard]

F-M Wildcard

Sorry, screwed up the vote.

Still screwed it up

[M-FM Moogle]

Well, let's see if this works then.

M-FM Wildcard

[Unknown1234]

Sorry, I'm at school a lot of the day so I can't post large posts much. Will be done soon.

[Unknown1234]

Moogle, you called Wildcard for changing his behaviour when he accuse you, however when Sino did it to make you gave him Town cred.

[Unknown1234]

Fuck grammar. Sino got town points because he "related to you" but now that someone is doing it to you it's a negative thing.

[M-FM Wildcard]

I think you are being a dick and word twisting and your entire demeanor has changed when you smell a good mislynch opportunity. I've see scum do this many, many times so now we find out your alignment as well.

Unless you have a specific question for me I haven't answered, I'm not getting into a semantic battle or a battle over what is or isn't hypocrisy or putting up with your word twisting either. And nope, I won't get into tunnel shit either so you can push my mislynch even harder for your own gain. You just revealed yourself as scum. Good job.

If you are so confident I am scum, let's 1v1-you go or I go today. Let's go!!

[M-FM Wildcard]

Dude, I am not twisting your words, and I'm not trying to be a dick. If you think I am a dick for pressuring you and attacking your Strawman fallacy, then that is on you. But let me just explain some stuff to you:

My entire demeanor has not changed at all. Look at how I reacted in pre-game to Unknown when we interacted, it is kind of similar to now. Furthermore, you did attack me first by attempting to insult my intelligence (using "townslip" wrong) to negate my entire argument. I did not appreciate that, so obviously I would react with some hostility.

You haven't address half my post, so my question could be "Why not?". I'd appreciate if you go back and actually address the points I am making instead of just saying I am twisting words and am scum, while refusing to actually make a point against anything I am saying.

It's also sad that you state you "won't get into tunnel shit", yet then immediately after state it has to be 1v1, one of us being lynch. That is absolutely tunneling, and you are once against proving you're a hypocrite.

I also did not reveal myself as scum, because I am a Town Power Role. Therefore, I cannot actually reveal myself to be something I am not.


If you think I am scummy solely for pressuring you on day one, then I think you need to reevaluate your whole stance. This OMGUS is completely unfounded. However, if you go back through my posts and point out specific scummy things I have said and done, then maybe I will honor those with responses. However, it is impossible for me to defend myself and further prove myself as Town when all you do is attack my argument instead of defending against the points I am making with your own logical arguments.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Moogle, you called Wildcard for changing his behaviour when he accuse you, however when Sino did it to make you gave him Town cred.

You can also see his behavior also completely changed. He goes from "lala I love being playful" to "OMG 1V1 ME RIGHT NOW"

[Sino]

One good point Wildcard has raised is : why are you using meta Moogle ? it doesn't make any sense for someone on an anon account to do it, you could tell us anything you want about you, we couldn't possibly know if it's true or not.

Wildcard, what do you think about me saying Unknown is twisting the truth ?

And Unknown, if you're going to tell me you pushed on Badass before the split, give me a post number.