S-FM 212: Paired Mafia

[Quick]

Paired Mafia!!

Signups (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37661-S-FM-Paired-Mafia-SIGNUPS)

http://i.imgur.com/xmcp4ZB.png








Group 1

Group 2



MiniZed
Yukitaka Oni
PLZLEAVEDUCKK
Titus
Eggy


MattZed
OrpZ
Frog
SuperJack
ThePrince








Living Players

Dead Players



Eggy
Yukitaka Oni
PLZLEAVEDUCKK
Frog
SuperJack
MattZed
Titus
MiniZed
ThePrince
Orpz









Eggy
Gingerape
PLZLEAVEDUCKK
Frog
SuperJack
MattZed
Titus
MiniZed
ThePrince
ThePaladin

When everyone has confirmed their role, and it is a good time for me to start the game, The game will start.

Time to confirm:

[Countdown Timers Cannot be Quoted from Other Posts]

If you do not confirm your role in 24 hours, I will replace you.

Mafia have N0 chat.

RULES OF CONDUCT:
NO OUTSIDE COMMUNICATION ABOUT THE GAME (Ex. skype, pms, other threads, phones calls and the like.)
NO QUOTING ANYTHING FROM OUTSIDE THE GAME
NO FAKE QUOTING
NO EDITING OR DELETING POSTS
NO EXCESSIVE PERSONAL ATTACKS (I will be the one to decide that)
NO POSTING ANY LANGUAGE BUT ENGLISH
LIMIT FLUFF POSTING TO A BARE MINIMUM (I will be the one to decide that)
HYDRAS ARE ALLOWED BETWEEN 2 PEOPLE, BUT ONE MEMBER MUST HAVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE THAT THEY HAVE PLAYED AT LEAST 3 GAMES
GOLDEN ROD IS MY COLOR DO NOT USE IT
YOU MUST POST AT LEAST 3 CONTENT RELATED POST EACH 24 HOUR PERIOD.
YOU ARE TO PLAY TO YOUR WIN CONDITION. IF I THINK YOU ARE NOT AND I WARN YOU AND YOU DO IT ANYWAYS, I WILL EXPLAIN IN DETAIL TO THE MODS WHAT YOU HAVE DONE AND YOU WILL BE SUBJECTED TO PUNISHMENT IF THE MODS AGREE WITH ME
GAME THROWING OR THREATENING TO GAME THROW IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
THREATENING TO BREAK THE RULE IS JUST AS BAD AS BREAKING THEM IN MY GAMES.
HAVE FUN!!!


END OF DAY 1!! (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37661-S-FM-Paired-Mafia-SIGNUPS?p=642030&viewfull=1#post642030)

START OF DAY 2!! (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37987-S-FM-212-Paired-Mafia?p=642215&viewfull=1#post642215)

TIME UNTIL EOD:

01:23:54:00

[Quick]

One person has not yet confirmed..

I'm giving them an additional 24 hours to confirm before I replace them.

01:00:00:00

[Quick]

Eggy
Yukitaka Oni
PLZLEAVEDUCKK
Frog
SuperJack
MattZed
Titus
MiniZed
ThePrince
Orpz

Game starts now. You must lynch from Group 1. 6

02:00:00:00

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Can we all agree that if there is a survivor, he should hard claim and we agree to not policy lynch them?

pros:
1) eliminates mafia and other neutrals from using "hes an exe, ignore him" defense, forcing them to use real logic to defend themselves
2) we can reasonably assume its cult guy as the other neutral ( Not sure if mafia or neutral will fake claim survivor. Mafia will fear a policy lynch?, and the other neutral would get insta lynched if one of the other neutrals die, and or is cult which they know a survivor will cc them and just win)
3) rest should be common sense... so i am not going to explain....

cons:
1) people have no honor and will policy lynch the survivor anyway because they are dumb.

[MattZed]

Can we all agree that if there is a survivor, he should hard claim and we agree to not policy lynch them?

pros:
1) eliminates mafia and other neutrals from using "hes an exe, ignore him" defense, forcing them to use real logic to defend themselves
2) we can reasonably assume its cult guy as the other neutral ( Not sure if mafia or neutral will fake claim survivor. Mafia will fear a policy lynch?, and the other neutral would get insta lynched if one of the other neutrals die, and or is cult which they know a survivor will cc them and just win)
3) rest should be common sense... so i am not going to explain....

cons:
1) people have no honor and will policy lynch the survivor anyway because they are dumb.
Since Mafia's goal is to eliminate 3 non-mafia from one of the days, and survivors are non-mafia, I would certainly not lynch a survivor claim. This isn't a regular game of mafia where survivors can side with Mafia willy nilly; by merely existing, they make the mafia wincon harder, and are thus more natural town allies.

[MattZed]

Also, there can be only one true Zed.

MiniZed

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

zzzz only can lynch from group 1 today.... and the one person i wanted to pressure before the game started is now immune, fan fucking tastic.

Luckily, other than that I don't really see any other player in that group as someone who would succumb to a day 1 lynch as any alignment anyway.

SuperJack said he was looking to playing with frog for the first time in a long time, and with myself. I assume he will be more active this game. He has strong day 2 reads from personal experience, so him being safe today will be valuable if he is town.

As for my group

yuki is hard to read and will get tunneled for stupid reasons ( not really their fault).
unknown is so inconsistent I dont know yet
eggy is an easy read
titus seems to start strong. She scumslipped or TMI'ed about 10+ times I counted in her last game. I wish she was in group 2 as she is easier to read on day 2.
me - quack quack

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Also, there can be only one true Zed.

MiniZed

I am the only person online, and you rvs him over me, why?

It looks like you planned on rvs'ing him because of your names regardless of how the game started before you got online, and you could care less of finding out information.

[Titus]

@duck, if I am so easy to read why wait until day 2?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

@duck, if I am so easy to read why wait until day 2?

You aren't an easy day 1 read. Your play when you replaced in Overwatch was very strong from the start, and I liked your opening in the last game. It was not until very late day1? and early day 2 where I picked up on you as mafia. I would rather be able to pressure prince and lynch him if he isnt town and be able to assess you tomorrow on a day where I should have a good indication of your alignment.

However if you wish to scrap today, I got a wicked beak attack.

[Titus]

I will expect when people to show up for you to be reading my posts with a fine toothed beak. If you don't, then we scrap.

Oh and survivors and millers should claim.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I will expect when people to show up for you to be reading my posts with a fine toothed beak. If you don't, then we scrap.

Oh and survivors and millers should claim.

You say that, but you misread my post and incorrectly commented on it in your first post? Uncharacteristically sloppy from you, especially with very little to get tripped up on.

Also, I like your continuation of the idea of survivor/miller claiming, however I think if miller claims they should potentially claim enabler to force scum to mess up a fake claim.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

OH, if there is an executioner, THEY ARE ALWAYS IN GROUP 1.

I spent like 20 fucking hours last game trying to find out what the fuck I was supposed to do with this set up ( I was completely wrong).

What I learned in the end, was it is designed so there can not be a day 1 victory. This means, since we are FORCED into a group 1 lynch, the exe can not just insta win, so if there is one, they are almost certainly in my group.

[Frog]

About to take off - I don't see wifi...

May be AFK for like 24 hours (16 hour flight + driving after)

Sheep my reads for EOD

[Titus]

You say that, but you misread my post and incorrectly commented on it in your first post? Uncharacteristically sloppy from you, especially with very little to get tripped up on.

Also, I like your continuation of the idea of survivor/miller claiming, however I think if miller claims they should potentially claim enabler to force scum to mess up a fake claim.

How did I misread your post?

[Frog]

I will expect when people to show up for you to be reading my posts with a fine toothed beak. If you don't, then we scrap.

Oh and survivors and millers should claim.

Agreed to the last point.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

How did I misread your post?



titus seems to start strong. She scumslipped or TMI'ed about 10+ times I counted in her last game. I wish she was in group 2 as she is easier to read on day 2.



@duck, if I am so easy to read why wait until day 2?

Unless it was my wording that confused you. I mentioned you start strong (NAI), and that I wish you were in group 2 because you are easier to read on day 2, and that is when group 2 is able to be lynched.

[Frog]

@duck, if I am so easy to read why wait until day 2?

You're not easy to read. I know a couple of your playstyles, what you're doing now is new to me.

[Frog]

Unless it was my wording that confused you. I mentioned you start strong (NAI), and that I wish you were in group 2 because you are easier to read on day 2, and that is when group 2 is able to be lynched.

Sup duck. Let's be Mason's and GOAT it up

[Frog]

Meant to quote your survivor post

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Sup duck. Let's be Mason's and GOAT it up

You aren't on the lynch block today. You can try and buddy me then. However, hi.

Nobody here has tried to engage or respond to what mattzed said. Anyone have thoughts on him? Surely I am not the only one who thought his rvs was terrible.

[Frog]

You aren't on the lynch block today. You can try and buddy me then. However, hi.

Nobody here has tried to engage or respond to what mattzed said. Anyone have thoughts on him? Surely I am not the only one who thought his rvs was terrible.

I understand only certain people can vote per day?

His tone is nuts objective in his IIoA post

[Frog]

Duck >Rand town

[MattZed]

I am the only person online, and you rvs him over me, why?

It looks like you planned on rvs'ing him because of your names regardless of how the game started before you got online, and you could care less of finding out information.
If random voting only worked by voting people who were online, it wouldn't be readable.

Yukitaka Oni

Nice try, Jester. ;)

[Yukitaka Oni]

What to do what to do....what a man gonna do.....(evil scheme theme) v)x.o)^ v(o.o(v

[Yukitaka Oni]

If random voting only worked by voting people who were online, it wouldn't be readable.

Yukitaka Oni

Nice try, Jester. ;)
Wut are you doin' my scum buddy?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

If random voting only worked by voting people who were online, it wouldn't be readable.

Yukitaka Oni

Nice try, Jester. ;)

I commented on your opening posts

I had an interaction with titus

Frog tried to buddy me


..and this is what you come up with? Do you have any thoughts on any of those 3 points. I guess you sort of covered the first point here in some way? Maybe touch on titus or frog.

[MattZed]

Wut are you doin' my scum buddy?
Oh, just making sure the plebs don't suspect us.

How are you gonna make it through D1?

[MattZed]

I commented on your opening posts

I had an interaction with titus

Frog tried to buddy me


..and this is what you come up with? Do you have any thoughts on any of those 3 points. I guess you sort of covered the first point here in some way? Maybe touch on titus or frog.
Duckk, if you wanna powerwolf and take town leadership, you're going to have to be less pedantic. Trying to draw meaningful conclusions from the first 50 post isn't pro-town, it's just fantasy.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Wut are you doin' my scum buddy?

Welcome [player X], you are a Malicious Savior and are 3p.

During the night, you may attempt to restore a player's HP. If you successfully restore a player's HP and live to see Mafia win, you win. you know who is Mafia at the start of the game.

Possible results:
You have successfully restored a player's HP OR You have not successfully restored a player's HP.

Are you seriously going to fucking breadcrumb when there are roles like this?

Guess what the traitor did last game, I fucking did the same thing on my first post. If at any point a survivor claims, I am only voting you.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Duckk, if you wanna powerwolf and take town leadership, you're going to have to be less pedantic. Trying to draw meaningful conclusions from the first 50 post isn't pro-town, it's just fantasy.

Didn't you make a read wall at about this time in your last game?

I can and will try to find a way to make meaningful conclusions in the first 50 posts. I don't care what alignment you think it is in favor of.

I don't want to be town leader, I wan't to be town victor, if you find all the scum for me, I will gladly sit back with a duck lemonade stand and coast.

[MattZed]

Welcome [player X], you are a Malicious Savior and are 3p.

During the night, you may attempt to restore a player's HP. If you successfully restore a player's HP and live to see Mafia win, you win. you know who is Mafia at the start of the game.

Possible results:
You have successfully restored a player's HP OR You have not successfully restored a player's HP.

Are you seriously going to fucking breadcrumb when there are roles like this?

Guess what the traitor did last game, I fucking did the same thing on my first post. If at any point a survivor claims, I am only voting you.
Boy, that is some interesting rampant speculation. Someone more easily triggered would yell "PRE-FLIP ASSOCIATION."

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Boy, that is some interesting rampant speculation. Someone more easily triggered would yell "PRE-FLIP ASSOCIATION."

To continue the trend. In charmander revenge, you were against me early, pinging me out for breadcrumbing charmander (arsonist) on my first post. What is different here?

[MattZed]

Didn't you make a read wall at about this time in your last game?

I can and will try to find a way to make meaningful conclusions in the first 50 posts. I don't care what alignment you think it is in favor of.

I don't want to be town leader, I wan't to be town victor, if you find all the scum for me, I will gladly sit back with a duck lemonade stand and coast.
One of the primary assets of being mafia is being able to make the first move; you know who everyone is, so you don't need to sit around and figure out who your allies are. Right now, I'm not seeing someone who's doing the cautious reads I'd expect from a fellow town. I'm seeing someone who's trying to get themselves townread out of sheer activity.

PLZLEAVEDUCKK

[MattZed]

To continue the trend. In charmander revenge, you were against me early, pinging me out for breadcrumbing charmander (arsonist) on my first post. What is different here?

That's a false equivalence. Giving role-themed information in one's posts is distinct from a fluff post that can only be interpreted as something more sinister if you suppose that I'm mafia and Yuki rolled a neutral that might not even exist in this game.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

One of the primary assets of being mafia is being able to make the first move; you know who everyone is, so you don't need to sit around and figure out who your allies are. Right now, I'm not seeing someone who's doing the cautious reads I'd expect from a fellow town. I'm seeing someone who's trying to get themselves townread out of sheer activity.

PLZLEAVEDUCKK

Trying to get town read out of activity, when activity is NAI? got em coach.

Why am I mafia, and not mafia or neutral? This looks like a neutral scumslip to me. Neither mafia, neutral, nor town know who everybody is in this setup thus you should not be assuming I am playing from an informed position.

Every town positive and negative role know someone elses role. The only advantage mafia have right now is a name to that paired role.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

That's a false equivalence. Giving role-themed information in one's posts is distinct from a fluff post that can only be interpreted as something more sinister if you suppose that I'm mafia and Yuki rolled a neutral that might not even exist in this game.

Yes it is only more sinister if you are exactly mafia, and he is exactly cult or w/e the fuck it is, however

why would he post that knowing this is a possible world. In everyone elses eyes it is not just yuki cult, mattzed mafia, anybody can be cult and mafia, and the odds of there being a cult and mafia in the game are 50% assuming roles are weighted evenly. Yuki just happened to be the one who rolled cult, and you rolled mafia ( in this scenario). If I rolled mafia he would have said the post to me, and if titus rolled mafia he would have said it to titus.

There is absolutely no fucking town motivation for saying what he did knowing the potential for an unknown role to signal to their partners. Why do you think I claimed amnesiac miller last game? I needed to soft claim to my team, I just took a unique, probably dumb approach.

[MattZed]

Trying to get town read out of activity, when activity is NAI? got em coach.

Why am I mafia, and not mafia or neutral? This looks like a neutral scumslip to me. Neither mafia, neutral, nor town know who everybody is in this setup thus you should not be assuming I am playing from an informed position.

Every town positive and negative role know someone elses role. The only advantage mafia have right now is a name to that paired role.
Oh, first I'm a mafia allied to Malicious Savior Yuki, and now I'm neutral scumslipping? Please, continue on about how clearly scummy I'm being.

Your argument that mafia aren't informed because of the existence of neutrals is severely flawed. Mafia wincon is to eliminate 3 people in one of the groups while keeping themselves alive. It doesn't matter if they eliminate town or neutral; they just need 3 people dead. They know all of the information they need, so they can get to their objective right away. This is precisely what I mean by informed.

[MattZed]

Yes it is only more sinister if you are exactly mafia, and he is exactly cult or w/e the fuck it is, however

why would he post that knowing this is a possible world. In everyone elses eyes it is not just yuki cult, mattzed mafia, anybody can be cult and mafia, and the odds of there being a cult and mafia in the game are 50% assuming roles are weighted evenly. Yuki just happened to be the one who rolled cult, and you rolled mafia ( in this scenario). If I rolled mafia he would have said the post to me, and if titus rolled mafia he would have said it to titus.

There is absolutely no fucking town motivation for saying what he did knowing the potential for an unknown role to signal to their partners. Why do you think I claimed amnesiac miller last game? I needed to soft claim to my team, I just took a unique, probably dumb approach.
The easiest explanation is that it was a FLUFF POST that Yuki made in response to being RV'd. If you want to read motivation into something, you don't just ask "is this helpful to town," but rather "how likely would Town Yuki have made this post, and how likely would scum Yuki have made this post?" and weigh this with the proportion of scum and town in the game. Given that Yuki is known for fluff, making a fluff post early on doesn't indicate scum for him.

I'm fine explaining Bayes' Rule to you, since you are clearly failing to grasp it, but not being helpful to town =/= scum motivated.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Oh, first I'm a mafia allied to Malicious Savior Yuki, and now I'm neutral scumslipping? Please, continue on about how clearly scummy I'm being.

Your argument that mafia aren't informed because of the existence of neutrals is severely flawed. Mafia wincon is to eliminate 3 people in one of the groups while keeping themselves alive. It doesn't matter if they eliminate town or neutral; they just need 3 people dead. They know all of the information they need, so they can get to their objective right away. This is precisely what I mean by informed.

Yes, I read your play as neutral, but I am aware of a possible world of you mafia and yuki malicious savior. I don't think your play has been mafia, but that you would be mafia by association. Yeah I make pre flip associations, its bad, I am bad, deal with it.

I will have to think on your last point.

[MattZed]

Yes, I read your play as neutral, but I am aware of a possible world of you mafia and yuki malicious savior. I don't think your play has been mafia, but that you would be mafia by association. Yeah I make pre flip associations, its bad, I am bad, deal with it.

I will have to think on your last point.
No, Duckk, I'm not accepting the conclusion that you're bad. You're either scum (including neut) and just throwing shit out there to help your objective, or you're town with room to improve on your play. You don't get to say "I'm making bad plays." If you're town, think before you post; and if you're scum, then my vote is well placed.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

The easiest explanation is that it was a FLUFF POST that Yuki made in response to being RV'd. If you want to read motivation into something, you don't just ask "is this helpful to town," but rather "how likely would Town Yuki have made this post, and how likely would scum Yuki have made this post?" and weigh this with the proportion of scum and town in the game. Given that Yuki is known for fluff, making a fluff post early on doesn't indicate scum for him.

I'm fine explaining Bayes' Rule to you, since you are clearly failing to grasp it, but not being helpful to town =/= scum motivated.

Can you direct me to one similar fluff post he has made in a previous game? His first post is what I expect out of yuki, his second post is unlike anything I have seen from him, and it just so happens to potentially be a signaling post.

People tried justifying my stupid claim last game, and I got away from being lynched as an obvious mafia. I don't care if you don't agree with my conclusion, but to just ignore it as a typical yuki fluff post is insane.

1) you come into the game and rvs someone who is clearly not online. I can live with that, w/e

2) now you are not even considering the world where yuki is signaling. Not that you don't believe it, but you just dismiss it all together is insane.

What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

[Yukitaka Oni]

Easy there mate, If you gonna focus on one group, wait for all of'em to show up first v)o.o)> v(o.o(v

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

No, Duckk, I'm not accepting the conclusion that you're bad. You're either scum (including neut) and just throwing shit out there to help your objective, or you're town with room to improve on your play. You don't get to say "I'm making bad plays." If you're town, think before you post; and if you're scum, then my vote is well placed.

I never said I am making bad plays. I say all the time I do things that other players disagree with and find sub optimal. It is how I think my play style is viewed, not an excuse for my play. Examples include, pre flip associations, fake claiming roles, and not participating in early game rvs votes.

You should also know by now, that I never think nor edit before I post. I post as a running train of thought. You can leave your vote wherever you want, I prefer you leave your vote on me, so I don't have to see you changing your vote again for the fourth time for no real reason ( only reasonable vote would be on me, other 2 were laughable).

[MattZed]

Before getting to Duckk's most recent post, something I've noticed from the setup spec:

A MILLAR SHOULD NOT CLAIM.

Millars are 3 HP and thus not insta-killed by the night kill. If they claim they are telling the mafia "go look in the other group and you might find a negative utility 1 HP town you can kill." If there's a Sheriff, they already know a Millar exists and you can claim your probably-unique role then if you are unluckily checked. Until then, think of yourself as someone who can take a bullet.

Speaking of which, I'm realizing now that random voting may have been a mistake.

IF YOU HAVE NOT VOTED YET, DO NOT VOTE, BUT INDICATE WHO YOU WOULD VOTE IF IT WAS END OF DAY.

Actors can only hammer and are also 1 HP. If we have one, our random voting will out the actor as being the only person who didn't vote, and if we don't have a doctor to heal them, RIP.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Before getting to Duckk's most recent post, something I've noticed from the setup spec:

A MILLAR SHOULD NOT CLAIM.

Millars are 3 HP and thus not insta-killed by the night kill. If they claim they are telling the mafia "go look in the other group and you might find a negative utility 1 HP town you can kill." If there's a Sheriff, they already know a Millar exists and you can claim your probably-unique role then if you are unluckily checked. Until then, think of yourself as someone who can take a bullet.

Speaking of which, I'm realizing now that random voting may have been a mistake.

IF YOU HAVE NOT VOTED YET, DO NOT VOTE, BUT INDICATE WHO YOU WOULD VOTE IF IT WAS END OF DAY.

Actors can only hammer and are also 1 HP. If we have one, our random voting will out the actor as being the only person who didn't vote, and if we don't have a doctor to heal them, RIP.

oh look he figured out one of the reasons his rvs was bad.

[Quick]

Actors can only hammer and are also 1 HP. If we have one, our random voting will out the actor as being the only person who didn't vote, and if we don't have a doctor to heal them, RIP.

That is a typo that is my fault, apologies. actor has 3 hp.

[MattZed]

Can you direct me to one similar fluff post he has made in a previous game? His first post is what I expect out of yuki, his second post is unlike anything I have seen from him, and it just so happens to potentially be a signaling post.

People tried justifying my stupid claim last game, and I got away from being lynched as an obvious mafia. I don't care if you don't agree with my conclusion, but to just ignore it as a typical yuki fluff post is insane.

1) you come into the game and rvs someone who is clearly not online. I can live with that, w/e

2) now you are not even considering the world where yuki is signaling. Not that you don't believe it, but you just dismiss it all together is insane.

What exactly are you trying to accomplish?
I'm not sure I accept the idea that Yuki's post was at all unusual, but even if I did, you are a pushing a very specific hypothesis. You're supposing that there is a Malicious Savior, that it's Yuki, that I'm Mafia, and that Yuki, as Malicious Savior, would choose his second post to try to reveal himself to his mafia allies discretely. This is way more than one post allows you to suspect. I'm not treating your hypothesis seriously because I'm town and thus know it's wrong, but even from an outsider's perspective it's waaaaaay too far fetched, which makes me suspicious of why you're making it in the first place.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

@yuki do you have any reads on the game yet?

[MattZed]

That is a typo that is my fault, apologies. actor has 3 hp.

I RETRACT WHAT I SAID ABOUT NOT RANDOM VOTING. GO AHEAD.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I'm not sure I accept the idea that Yuki's post was at all unusual, but even if I did, you are a pushing a very specific hypothesis. You're supposing that there is a Malicious Savior, that it's Yuki, that I'm Mafia, and that Yuki, as Malicious Savior, would choose his second post to try to reveal himself to his mafia allies discretely. This is way more than one post allows you to suspect. I'm not treating your hypothesis seriously because I'm town and thus know it's wrong, but even from an outsider's perspective it's waaaaaay too far fetched, which makes me suspicious of why you're making it in the first place.

My point is it isnt very specific.

There is a 50% chance for there to be a malicious savior since two roles are paired. This means half of the time a player is able to do what yuki just did. You know for 99.9% or 100% certain right now that it is true or fake, but the rest of us don't. Any player could have rolled these slots, but it would have just happened to be yuki since he is the one who breadcrumbed. It isn't specific to you and him being those roles, but there is a 50% chance for the roles to happen, and the player who got the malicious savior decided to soft claim.

I swear I feel like im taking fucking crazy pills.

[Yukitaka Oni]

@yuki do you have any reads on the game yet?
23:30 PM
Nope. Sleep instead

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

23:30 PM
Nope. Sleep instead

Meh, I'll join you.

We shall continue this another time mattzed, thanks for being awake.

I may be busy, but if the weather continues, my game will probably be canceled and I will be more active. Tootles.

[MattZed]

My point is it isnt very specific.

There is a 50% chance for there to be a malicious savior since two roles are paired. This means half of the time a player is able to do what yuki just did. You know for 99.9% or 100% certain right now that it is true or fake, but the rest of us don't. Any player could have rolled these slots, but it would have just happened to be yuki since he is the one who breadcrumbed. It isn't specific to you and him being those roles, but there is a 50% chance for the roles to happen, and the player who got the malicious savior decided to soft claim.

I swear I feel like im taking fucking crazy pills.
This is sheer moon logic.

You are claiming that, from one fluff post at the start of the game, you can figure out who 2/3 of the scum are. Just sanity check yourself and ask which is more likely: You found the biggest scumslip of all time on page 1 and everyone else missed it, or you've come up with a crazy theory that probably isn't true?

But you still approach the probability incorrectly. You haven't answered "is Malicious Savior Yuki more likely to have made that post than Town (or any other alignment, really) Yuki, and if so, by how much?" If you really think there's a 0% chance a non-MS Yuki would make that post, then I really don't know where to begin with you.

[MattZed]

And as Duckk departs, I'll note for those reading the thread later that my vote against Duckk is not random.

Duckk's train of thought evades logic and common sense. The evidence to support his theory simply doesn't exist, and the fact that he continues to push his theory makes me wonder "is Duckk actually reading this game?" The only way I can see him not realizing his theory is bad is if he doesn't actually care.

And there's the flaw. Town should be concerned about how accurate their reads are. They may have faulty reasoning at times or hunches they can't explain, but their reads should follow plainly from their reasoning. Duckk's doesn't, and it doesn't bother him. I haven't ruled out that he's town simply trying to "stir the pot" before the real stage of the game begins, but he certainly has a lot of explaining to do, and I want to hear it when he gets back.

[Frog]

I'm getting drunk as fuck

Flying like fucj

Follow me here:

Notes on gane: Matt zed I'd call an obv scum on my for objective perspective - slmething Calix used to do like nuts (see that gane where I was 3P and caught her within pg1 and saved her, lol.)

But yeah I'm straight town - MS is exactly the same with that reakext

Duck is pure as fucj. In no world is dicker ever not town. Ever. It's fucing obv.


Titus not being head butting is weird as fuck for me but I like it. I don't think it's alignment I dative at all - I e been therlyfh phases of May where my gane Ganges and this feels pro fir Titus. Ike I'm ducking psyched to see this now. Not up mention our new fans clog. Up with that ace attorney.

I gave a ridiculous TK foil but heh I'll say it for shots and jiggles - no no, it's too dumb, Ir can't be. Fuck that Anys.


I'm devil as fuck. I don't know who to vote but OH yEaA$ MZ

-1v]Marrt Zaed -1/.Staa

[Frog]

I justvtetwevit - I'm sorry I'll proof read this with ehidz

[Frog]

LateeX not kiw

[Frog]

I'm prob at my drunkest normally in ganes at the lament

I'm here- will try to @ everyone her but give nectar to : look up the page, get the post, select the people etc

[Frog]

2 users browsing - spooky ghost come out

[Frog]

This bathroom on the plane is sick

[Frog]

Wrong chat - this is the MZ obv scum game? Yeah

Lol - I want to watch you guys play with me here. But tvh Torus is here and like I can't read her at all - it's both awesome and troubling - but IDGAF - Titus goat either alignment

[SuperJack]

I've only just woke up, but I'm going to catch up once I'm not naked and have got ready. But what I've seen, Duck and Mz fight each other, little bit of fluff from yuki. Titus popped in and Frog is drinking on a plane.

Frog try not to talk about, and link, other games you are playing xD you may end up accidently break a rule being drunk =)

[Frog]

Test

[MiniZed]

Duck is probably town, I don't see why his play indicates his scum behaviour although it has been a long time.

I think you jumped to the conclusion about MattZed. The vote on me probably does not have as much thought with it as you may assume, Duck. Other then that MattZed seems to be scum-hunting normally, and he did state why he thought you were scum>neutral. They know who their teammates are.

FROG is all over the place. Haven't commented much yet because I have just woken but 1 second.

[MiniZed]

Given that I know I'm town, this leaves 1 scum and 1 Neutral between Duck Yuki Eggy and Titus. Yuki's jokes seemed weird as if he was already trying to state that he was town.

YukitakaOni

[MiniZed]

Titus seems to be more cautious with the few posts they've said. FROG seems to be drunk.

[SuperJack]

Titus seems to be more cautious with the few posts they've said. FROG seems to be drunk.

And this isn't some sort of indication to anything?

And instead, you go and act like a hypocrite, voting for yuki for saying he trying to state he is town, right after you state you are town.


Given that I know I'm town, this leaves 1 scum and 1 Neutral between Duck Yuki Eggy and Titus. Yuki's jokes seemed weird as if he was already trying to state that he was town.

YukitakaOni

[MiniZed]

And this isn't some sort of indication to anything?

And instead, you go and act like a hypocrite, voting for yuki for saying he trying to state he is town, right after you state you are town.

That is a typo which is supposed to say scum. That much is obvious given the way they talk.

It's an RVS vote, and I haven't found myself liking the few posts from both Titus and Yuki. Yuki joking about being scum seems something odd for a town to do right now, even for Yuki. Titus acting more cautious can also be indicative of a TPR trying not to stand out, so I am not going to ignore that possibility either.

Are you reading?

[Eggy]

from what I can see sofar I think duck is town or possibly the jester I will not analyze group 2 right now. Mattzed seems off he calls duck the hester then proceeds to vote him anyway which makes me think he is either scum or neutral if hes neutral he knows that duck is not jester and was just trying to make himself not seem neutral. Unknown is probably town I have decided to always give him the benefit of the doubt because I always have him as scum and more often than not he is town. Yuki is being yuki as far as I can tell seems to always troll anyways so I need more info before I can make up my mind.

Yuki-null
Unknown-null town
Mattzed-scum/neutral
Duck-town/neutral

mattzed Dont see anyone else being mafia in group 1

[Eggy]

wow im an idiot

[Eggy]

mattzed is not group one unvote

[Eggy]

uhhh hmmm so yea Titus is null for me didnt notice she was even group one so Ill hold onto my vote for now. Im thinking between yuki or titus on where to place my vote at the moment. But I need to see more from both of them.

[Titus]

Trying to get town read out of activity, when activity is NAI? got em coach.

Why am I mafia, and not mafia or neutral? This looks like a neutral scumslip to me. Neither mafia, neutral, nor town know who everybody is in this setup thus you should not be assuming I am playing from an informed position.

Every town positive and negative role know someone elses role. The only advantage mafia have right now is a name to that paired role.

I don't know anyone else's role?

PleaseLeaveDuckk

[Titus]

uhhh hmmm so yea Titus is null for me didnt notice she was even group one so Ill hold onto my vote for now. Im thinking between yuki or titus on where to place my vote at the moment. But I need to see more from both of them.

Why Yuki?

[MiniZed]

I don't know anyone else's role?

PleaseLeaveDuckk

This is almost the exact same way you played last game. Why do you vote Duck for having some points raised against you, and the only thing you say is that "you don't know anyone else's roles"

Question: is that a neutral soft claim?

[MiniZed]

Why Yuki?

Not really a big fan of you raising question against Eggy's opinion. I hope you have a reason for why you are against a Yuki lynch.

Currently thinking Titus is neutral and Yuki is scum.

[ThePrince]

-The Ducks post about not PL a survivor is something I agree with.
-I did not like Titus post about survivors and millers claiming. Yes, it makes sense because it increases the percentage of hitting mafia/3p but it also increases mafia's chances of hitting a positive utility town role.
-MattZed and Ducks back and forth gave me a positive view of Matt, especially this post (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37987-S-FM-212-Paired-Mafia?p=641634&viewfull=1#post641634) on page 2.
-Frog, those drunk posts were funny.

-vote Titus

I do not like the survivor and miller claiming post.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

And as Duckk departs, I'll note for those reading the thread later that my vote against Duckk is not random.

Duckk's train of thought evades logic and common sense. The evidence to support his theory simply doesn't exist, and the fact that he continues to push his theory makes me wonder "is Duckk actually reading this game?" The only way I can see him not realizing his theory is bad is if he doesn't actually care.

And there's the flaw. Town should be concerned about how accurate their reads are. They may have faulty reasoning at times or hunches they can't explain, but their reads should follow plainly from their reasoning. Duckk's doesn't, and it doesn't bother him. I haven't ruled out that he's town simply trying to "stir the pot" before the real stage of the game begins, but he certainly has a lot of explaining to do, and I want to hear it when he gets back.

Evades logic? You can disagree with the read, but it is pretty logical that him calling you scum buddies is a hidden scum sifting to his team.

I am not continuing to push the theory, I am trying to explain it to you. My next yuki post was asking him for his reads.

I care about every game unless I'm neutral killing, if you think I'm posting when I'm very busy as serial killer then fire away.

No shit you haven't ruled out I am town because guess what!!

How the fuck do my reads not follow from my reasoning....
Frog - buddying me , scum lean
Titus - misread post 1, scum lean
Mz - calls me mafia not considering neutral - neutral lean
Yuki - breadcrumb cult - neutral lean.

Obviously wrong on one of yuki/mz but to say you can't follow my logic into reads is a fucking joke. Let's play which bright star will misrepresent duck next

Fuck posting on phones

[Orpz]

Initial post describing joy at recognizing a lot of familiar names, with light banter at MattZed added on for fun.

A few sentences describing my schedule and how long I'll be away at school.

Another sentence related to the game, followed by an unrelated vote.

[Orpz]

ThePrince

[Orpz]

ThePrince

An acknowledgement of mistake.

[Orpz]

Before getting to Duckk's most recent post, something I've noticed from the setup spec:

A MILLAR SHOULD NOT CLAIM.

Millars are 3 HP and thus not insta-killed by the night kill. If they claim they are telling the mafia "go look in the other group and you might find a negative utility 1 HP town you can kill." If there's a Sheriff, they already know a Millar exists and you can claim your probably-unique role then if you are unluckily checked. Until then, think of yourself as someone who can take a bullet.

Speaking of which, I'm realizing now that random voting may have been a mistake.

IF YOU HAVE NOT VOTED YET, DO NOT VOTE, BUT INDICATE WHO YOU WOULD VOTE IF IT WAS END OF DAY.

Actors can only hammer and are also 1 HP. If we have one, our random voting will out the actor as being the only person who didn't vote, and if we don't have a doctor to heal them, RIP.

Some more banter at MattZed for not reading the setup, followed by a quote from the setup that states the uniqueness of roles.



Day cycle is 3 days; 48 hour day phase 24 hour night phase.
Mafia share DAY CHAT.
Lynch is decided by majority.
Player's Role and Alignment will be given upon death.
All roles are unique.

[Orpz]

LateeX not kiw

An expression of approval for LaTeX formatting.

[SuperJack]

Not really a big fan of you raising question against Eggy's opinion. I hope you have a reason for why you are against a Yuki lynch.

Currently thinking Titus is neutral and Yuki is scum.

Please just why. Titus didn't say she was against the lynch she was pushing for more reasoning. The idea of the game is to push further to find out who is town who is scum.

Not to just have lynches.

[SuperJack]

Orpz. Is this unique style of posting a way to make you purposely harder to read?

[Orpz]

Sherif
Detector
Agent
Night Kill
Lookout
Serial Killer Abductor
Doctor
Malicious Savior
Consort


The first of a series of daily reminders that Lookout cannot see a bunch of roles.

Overt disagreement with Superjack.

A less hostile sign-off, with a quick promise to catch up at the earliest opportunity.

[MattZed]

ThePrince
Orpz you dolt he's in group 2.

As for things to happen since I left:
I'm actually a big fan of Duckk providing a quick read list now that people have had a chance to check in. He's not off the hook yet for moon logic, but he makes a read list that cites specific things people have been doing, so I'm not scumreading him as strongly as when I signed off last night.

Times like this remind me that Frog has an incredibly infuriating playstyle. Time and again I've seen him enter a game and refuse to give information until the last minute, and he's doing it again here. The only positions he's advanced is that Titus is hard to read, Duckk is obvious town, and I'm obvious scum. And yet he doesn't list the reasoning. How can I tell the difference between a Frog who's town hiding his reasons for supporting Duckk and scum Frog who's trying to pocket an active player? You can't. Right now he's pushing that I'm obv scum for having an "objective perspective," without going into any details of what that is or why it might be a scumtell. Discrediting one of the most vocal members of town so far without explaining why? Yeah, no. Not letting that slide. Frog is a scumlean and I'd be voting him now if he were in group 1.

HOLD. FROG. ACCOUNTABLE.

Eggy needs to read the setup, but him seeming to think Jester is actually a role in the game may have been a non-neutral slip.

Titus should post more substance. Null

Null on Orpz/SJ

ThePrince is reading the game and using their short post for substance. Townlean.

[MattZed]

Some more banter at MattZed for not reading the setup, followed by a quote from the setup that states the uniqueness of roles.
lol I concede this point.

[MattZed]

Off for now. Back in about 7 hours.

[Titus]

This is almost the exact same way you played last game. Why do you vote Duck for having some points raised against you, and the only thing you say is that "you don't know anyone else's roles"

Question: is that a neutral soft claim?

No. I would be outright claiming neutral as neutral.

Second, I have no opinion on a Yuki lynch.

Third, Duck stated something untrue, so I voted him.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

No. I would be outright claiming neutral as neutral.

Second, I have no opinion on a Yuki lynch.

Third, Duck stated something untrue, so I voted him.

It is 100% factually true.
Mafia knows mafia
All town positive know their corresponding negative role
All neutral know the other neutral role
Citizens know nothing

What are you doing this game? I assume you are a tpr trying to play dumb citizen, but since this post revived your bad point, maybe you are just scum

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

MattZed I make early reads list everygame, you are letting me off for the same type of reads list I gave at the start of my last game where I was traitor. Sad part is you scum read me for my AI stuff...

Zzz I type like 1wpm on mobile so frustrTing

[Eggy]

Why Yuki?

because I have him in my null pile aswell as yourself Im leaning towards duck being town or jester neither warrants a lynch and unknown is also more or less null for me but I do end up pushing his lynch often when he is town and am trying to work on that so you and yuki are my prefered options but I have not seen enough to cast my vote yet

[Eggy]

Orpz you dolt he's in group 2.

As for things to happen since I left:
I'm actually a big fan of Duckk providing a quick read list now that people have had a chance to check in. He's not off the hook yet for moon logic, but he makes a read list that cites specific things people have been doing, so I'm not scumreading him as strongly as when I signed off last night.

Times like this remind me that Frog has an incredibly infuriating playstyle. Time and again I've seen him enter a game and refuse to give information until the last minute, and he's doing it again here. The only positions he's advanced is that Titus is hard to read, Duckk is obvious town, and I'm obvious scum. And yet he doesn't list the reasoning. How can I tell the difference between a Frog who's town hiding his reasons for supporting Duckk and scum Frog who's trying to pocket an active player? You can't. Right now he's pushing that I'm obv scum for having an "objective perspective," without going into any details of what that is or why it might be a scumtell. Discrediting one of the most vocal members of town so far without explaining why? Yeah, no. Not letting that slide. Frog is a scumlean and I'd be voting him now if he were in group 1.

HOLD. FROG. ACCOUNTABLE.

Eggy needs to read the setup, but him seeming to think Jester is actually a role in the game may have been a non-neutral slip.

Titus should post more substance. Null

Null on Orpz/SJ

ThePrince is reading the game and using their short post for substance. Townlean.

lol yes I definately do need to reread the setup I thought there was a jester because I thought you said duck was jester was that a mistake or did I misread? anyway if anything that just makes me think duck is town more. But it also makes me thave to rethink my read on you.

[Titus]

It is 100% factually true.
Mafia knows mafia
All town positive know their corresponding negative role
All neutral know the other neutral role
Citizens know nothing

What are you doing this game? I assume you are a tpr trying to play dumb citizen, but since this post revived your bad point, maybe you are just scum

Last time I checked citizens are town. So, no. All town don't know roles.

Also, negative utility roles are not informed.

Why are you lying?

[Titus]

Eggy, are you scum with Yuki and Duck?

[SuperJack]

Eggy, are you scum with Yuki and Duck?

Are you claiming Survivor ?

[MiniZed]

Please just why. Titus didn't say she was against the lynch she was pushing for more reasoning. The idea of the game is to push further to find out who is town who is scum.

Not to just have lynches.

i dont understand why you are defending Titus so much. If I am interpreting something wrong then why can she not say it herself?

Also, that question is the weakest question you can ask. There is obviously a reason you ask, and it doesn't even reflect their own opinion, or put it in a way that they are actually trying to solve the game. Why.

[MiniZed]

-The Ducks post about not PL a survivor is something I agree with.
-I did not like Titus post about survivors and millers claiming. Yes, it makes sense because it increases the percentage of hitting mafia/3p but it also increases mafia's chances of hitting a positive utility town role.
-MattZed and Ducks back and forth gave me a positive view of Matt, especially this post (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37987-S-FM-212-Paired-Mafia?p=641634&viewfull=1#post641634) on page 2.
-Frog, those drunk posts were funny.

-vote Titus

I do not like the survivor and miller claiming post.

What makes you disagree? I myself might not be too sure, if we had nothing else to go off of it gets rid of a 3p instead of potentially leaving an enemy. (Side note, what if there are two survivors?)

I agree with not revealing the 3p at this point. Revealing them gives the mafia three confirmed town to hit from a single pool, which is bad for us opposed to a 3p possibly being hit.

Is that all you are going about with your vote then? I don't disagree with it at this point.

[MiniZed]

Before getting to Duckk's most recent post, something I've noticed from the setup spec:

A MILLAR SHOULD NOT CLAIM.

Millars are 3 HP and thus not insta-killed by the night kill. If they claim they are telling the mafia "go look in the other group and you might find a negative utility 1 HP town you can kill." If there's a Sheriff, they already know a Millar exists and you can claim your probably-unique role then if you are unluckily checked. Until then, think of yourself as someone who can take a bullet.

Speaking of which, I'm realizing now that random voting may have been a mistake.

IF YOU HAVE NOT VOTED YET, DO NOT VOTE, BUT INDICATE WHO YOU WOULD VOTE IF IT WAS END OF DAY.

Actors can only hammer and are also 1 HP. If we have one, our random voting will out the actor as being the only person who didn't vote, and if we don't have a doctor to heal them, RIP.

I'm not sure I find this post to be someone struggling to regain town cred by changing their mind, or if someone is actually changing their mind. I am inclined to believe it is more town than scum, but I'm not terribly convinced yet.

I just noticed I might be looking at this wrong. I'm going to read the setup because I don't think I understood it right away.

[MiniZed]

No. I would be outright claiming neutral as neutral.

Second, I have no opinion on a Yuki lynch.

Third, Duck stated something untrue, so I voted him.

Odd post. The neutral comment is an obvious lie because there are evil neutrals in this game. I'm not sure what you are pulling, as if you said that to convince people you wernt aware of that.

So I take this as a Null vote. who are you more inclined to vote currently?

You can't just vote someone for saying something false. That's not how a game works. People will always misinterprete stuff or get things wrong, and what you did was a OMGUS vote which is something you did a lot of in our previous games. You didn't even try to say why he was wrong and how he was lying about you. All you did was vote him which makes no sense.

[Eggy]

Eggy, are you scum with Yuki and Duck?

how does that make any sense??? 3 scum in one group? no I am not scum with anyone

[Eggy]

titus seems very strange things she says do not seem to add up not sure where she is comming from as far as town perspective im thinking she is mafia but cud be potentially neutral. Yuki is probably neutral hoping to lurk out the game. Minized is town and so is duck

[Yukitaka Oni]

titus seems very strange things she says do not seem to add up not sure where she is comming from as far as town perspective im thinking she is mafia but cud be potentially neutral. Yuki is probably neutral hoping to lurk out the game. Minized is town and so is duck
So what you gonna do when you're sleeping? Claiming sleeping? Or letting me claim you're lurking like the same you just did to me? Trying to be an asshole player? Or trying to act scummy?

[Yukitaka Oni]

I've only just woke up, but I'm going to catch up once I'm not naked and have got ready. But what I've seen, Duck and Mz fight each other, little bit of fluff from yuki. Titus popped in and Frog is drinking on a plane.

Frog try not to talk about, and link, other games you are playing xD you may end up accidently break a rule being drunk =)
v)x.o)> v(o.o(v kept you waiting huh?

[Yukitaka Oni]

That a lot of jumping vote, why my town is so weird this time?!?! A secret code or something ?

[Yukitaka Oni]

Look like group 1 have less vet than group 2, let's gas group 1 v(o.o(<

[Yukitaka Oni]

That a lot of jumping vote, why my town is so weird this time?!?! A secret code or something ?
Well could be a code since mafia doesn't have chat tho. Town should check every single pun, code, language, metaphor, sheeping vote and those who not on the lynch train. Remember, no russia v)x.o)> v(o.o(v

[Titus]

Are you claiming Survivor ?

No. I am town.

[Titus]

Odd post. The neutral comment is an obvious lie because there are evil neutrals in this game. I'm not sure what you are pulling, as if you said that to convince people you wernt aware of that.

So I take this as a Null vote. who are you more inclined to vote currently?

You can't just vote someone for saying something false. That's not how a game works. People will always misinterprete stuff or get things wrong, and what you did was a OMGUS vote which is something you did a lot of in our previous games. You didn't even try to say why he was wrong and how he was lying about you. All you did was vote him which makes no sense.

Don't tell me how to play. I can and will vote people for lying ty.

[Frog]

I'm here - was having technical issues - couldn't post on the site due to airline wifi restrictions - asked in skype to post my posts, but I'm kind of sure they were all meaningless drunken words string together without meaning. Lol.

[Titus]

i dont understand why you are defending Titus so much. If I am interpreting something wrong then why can she not say it herself?

Also, that question is the weakest question you can ask. There is obviously a reason you ask, and it doesn't even reflect their own opinion, or put it in a way that they are actually trying to solve the game. Why.


I wish I could vote you. Asking why someone votes someone else is common sense not being for or against a lynch.

If you wanted to know why I asked, you would ask me why I asked. Instead, you assumed my position and tried to frame things.

[Titus]

So what you gonna do when you're sleeping? Claiming sleeping? Or letting me claim you're lurking like the same you just did to me? Trying to be an asshole player? Or trying to act scummy?

More of these types of posts please. I kinda figured most would have determined my entry posts were made before heading to bed but hey...

[Frog]

I'm getting drunk as fuck

Flying like fucj

Follow me here:

Notes on gane: Matt zed I'd call an obv scum on my for objective perspective - slmething Calix used to do like nuts (see that gane where I was 3P and caught her within pg1 and saved her, lol.)

But yeah I'm straight town - MS is exactly the same with that reakext

Duck is pure as fucj. In no world is dicker ever not town. Ever. It's fucing obv.


Titus not being head butting is weird as fuck for me but I like it. I don't think it's alignment I dative at all - I e been therlyfh phases of May where my gane Ganges and this feels pro fir Titus. Ike I'm ducking psyched to see this now. Not up mention our new fans clog. Up with that ace attorney.

I gave a ridiculous TK foil but heh I'll say it for shots and jiggles - no no, it's too dumb, Ir can't be. Fuck that Anys.


I'm devil as fuck. I don't know who to vote but OH yEaA$ MZ

-1v]Marrt Zaed -1/.Staa

Oh I guess I posted here. Lol. Wtf.

[Frog]

Orpz you dolt he's in group 2.

As for things to happen since I left:
I'm actually a big fan of Duckk providing a quick read list now that people have had a chance to check in. He's not off the hook yet for moon logic, but he makes a read list that cites specific things people have been doing, so I'm not scumreading him as strongly as when I signed off last night.

Times like this remind me that Frog has an incredibly infuriating playstyle. Time and again I've seen him enter a game and refuse to give information until the last minute, and he's doing it again here. The only positions he's advanced is that Titus is hard to read, Duckk is obvious town, and I'm obvious scum. And yet he doesn't list the reasoning. How can I tell the difference between a Frog who's town hiding his reasons for supporting Duckk and scum Frog who's trying to pocket an active player? You can't. Right now he's pushing that I'm obv scum for having an "objective perspective," without going into any details of what that is or why it might be a scumtell. Discrediting one of the most vocal members of town so far without explaining why? Yeah, no. Not letting that slide. Frog is a scumlean and I'd be voting him now if he were in group 1.

HOLD. FROG. ACCOUNTABLE.

Eggy needs to read the setup, but him seeming to think Jester is actually a role in the game may have been a non-neutral slip.

Titus should post more substance. Null

Null on Orpz/SJ

ThePrince is reading the game and using their short post for substance. Townlean.

Weird. You're talking about me but not me so you're grandstanding. :-/

[Frog]

The *not to me

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Last time I checked citizens are town. So, no. All town don't know roles.

Also, negative utility roles are not informed.

Why are you lying?

TOWN POSITIVE NOT ALL TOWN
I specifically said citizens know nothing

Negative utility are infomred because roles are unique.

Holy fuck why are you trolling us. You are not THIS bad. Please reread the setup or tell me what the fuck I am missing about the setup.

[Titus]

TOWN POSITIVE NOT ALL TOWN
I specifically said citizens know nothing

Negative utility are infomred because roles are unique.

Holy fuck why are you trolling us. You are not THIS bad. Please reread the setup or tell me what the fuck I am missing about the setup.

I am not trolling you. All roles are unique but the setup is vague as to what paired with means. Usually pairing in a setup refers to an investigative pairing.

No town roles have any information.

[SuperJack]

I am not trolling you. All roles are unique but the setup is vague as to what paired with means. Usually pairing in a setup refers to an investigative pairing.

No town roles have any information.

How about asking then?

[Titus]

How about asking then?

Why would I ask? If the mod intended for me to know something, it would be in my QT.

[ThePrince]

It is 100% factually true.
Mafia knows mafia
All town positive know their corresponding negative role
All neutral know the other neutral role
Citizens know nothing

What are you doing this game? I assume you are a tpr trying to play dumb citizen, but since this post revived your bad point, maybe you are just scum

I do not understand the bold.


Odd post. The neutral comment is an obvious lie because there are evil neutrals in this game. I'm not sure what you are pulling, as if you said that to convince people you wernt aware of that.

So I take this as a Null vote. who are you more inclined to vote currently?

You can't just vote someone for saying something false. That's not how a game works. People will always misinterprete stuff or get things wrong, and what you did was a OMGUS vote which is something you did a lot of in our previous games. You didn't even try to say why he was wrong and how he was lying about you. All you did was vote him which makes no sense.

How are you so sure about evil neutrals being in the game? Did I miss something in the setup?


-SuperJack seems to be role hunting.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

it is mod confirmed that paired means in the game together, which is why i said if miller wanted to claim they should fake enabler.

Therefore your reasoning is now gone.

As for your bold inquiry prince,

If I am sheriff, I know a miller is in the game. If I am miller, I know sheriff is in the game.

Survivor knows cult, cult knows survivor, etc.

It is impossible for someone to not know another person's role unless they are citizen. The mafia know the name of the role, the other players only know the role exists.

[SuperJack]

Quick

What does the Pairing mean?


Arguement will be solved, Now we can talk about real shit, instead of fuffing with stupid setup mechanics that are solved with a question.

So Yes, Titus I'm not happy that you will drag this on. Its nothing but a distraction. You know better.

[Quick]

Quick

What does the Pairing mean?


Arguement will be solved, Now we can talk about real shit, instead of fuffing with stupid setup mechanics that are solved with a question.

So Yes, Titus I'm not happy that you will drag this on. Its nothing but a distraction. You know better.

This should be asked in the game thread or your QT.

Paired mafia is called paired mafia because roles are paired together. Look over the special mechanics in the setup thread to know what roles are paired with what.

[MattZed]

No. I would be outright claiming neutral as neutral.

Second, I have no opinion on a Yuki lynch.

Third, Duck stated something untrue, so I voted him.
Titus, why do you prefer to vote people for saying untrue things? What does it actually accomplish for you in the game right now? (honest question)


MattZed I make early reads list everygame, you are letting me off for the same type of reads list I gave at the start of my last game where I was traitor. Sad part is you scum read me for my AI stuff...

Zzz I type like 1wpm on mobile so frustrTing
PLZLEAVEDUCKK, if you knew what about your behavior was AI and NAI, then you'd have a nearly-perfect winrate as scum by blending so darned well. You're not off the hook, and I want to see more from you.


titus seems very strange things she says do not seem to add up not sure where she is comming from as far as town perspective im thinking she is mafia but cud be potentially neutral. Yuki is probably neutral hoping to lurk out the game. Minized is town and so is duck
Eggy, do you care to expand more on those reads, or are you just going to leave them there?


Weird. You're talking about me but not me so you're grandstanding. :-/
No, Frog, I'm not. I was making a quick post in the morning because I had to go but wanted to leave instructions for how this day should go. You've been notorious for keeping things close to your chest as scum (see: Sen's nearly-canceled game or Fire's UPICK) unless you're under a lot of pressure. You've admitted yourself that it's up to town, not scum, to drive discussion, and if you're scum I'm not letting you get away with your historically successful scumplay.

On that note, do you have any reads that you would like to back up with reasoning? Surely the masterful Frog would have a lot to say right now as town.

Why would I ask? If the mod intended for me to know something, it would be in my QT.
This is playing just a bit dense. Perhaps it's just a difference in site culture, but a plain reading of the setup (and the discussion thereof in the setup there) confirms that roles are "paired" in the sense that if one is present in the game, then so is the other. Every non-citizen thus knows the existence of at least one other role in the game. Quick doesn't need to tell you this; it's just in the setup.

[MiniZed]

I do not understand the bold.



How are you so sure about evil neutrals being in the game? Did I miss something in the setup?


-SuperJack seems to be role hunting.

Well, if I'm following what I think the pairings mean, there is atleast one neutral evil in each pair, so this is what I think unless I'm wrong.

Even if I'm wrong, it's expected probably to have a neutral evil in the game but well figure it out when Quick answers SuperJacks question.

[MiniZed]

Well, if I'm following what I think the pairings mean, there is atleast one neutral evil in each pair, so this is what I think unless I'm wrong.

Even if I'm wrong, it's expected probably to have a neutral evil in the game but well figure it out when Quick answers SuperJacks question.

Jokes it's already answered -derp-. So I think I'm right about there being an evil regardless.

[MiniZed]

Matt, out of curiosity, you have practically ignored me this game. You haven't commented on anything and I'm not in your reads list.

[MattZed]

Matt, out of curiosity, you have practically ignored me this game. You haven't commented on anything and I'm not in your reads list.
Honestly, when I skimmed through the thread to read what I missed, I skipped over your posts because I thought they were mine.

[Frog]

Titus, why do you prefer to vote people for saying untrue things? What does it actually accomplish for you in the game right now? (honest question)


PLZLEAVEDUCKK, if you knew what about your behavior was AI and NAI, then you'd have a nearly-perfect winrate as scum by blending so darned well. You're not off the hook, and I want to see more from you.


Eggy, do you care to expand more on those reads, or are you just going to leave them there?


No, Frog, I'm not. I was making a quick post in the morning because I had to go but wanted to leave instructions for how this day should go. You've been notorious for keeping things close to your chest as scum (see: Sen's nearly-canceled game or Fire's UPICK) unless you're under a lot of pressure. You've admitted yourself that it's up to town, not scum, to drive discussion, and if you're scum I'm not letting you get away with your historically successful scumplay.

On that note, do you have any reads that you would like to back up with reasoning? Surely the masterful Frog would have a lot to say right now as town.

This is playing just a bit dense. Perhaps it's just a difference in site culture, but a plain reading of the setup (and the discussion thereof in the setup there) confirms that roles are "paired" in the sense that if one is present in the game, then so is the other. Every non-citizen thus knows the existence of at least one other role in the game. Quick doesn't need to tell you this; it's just in the setup.

Sure.

I was 30 drinks deep and posting with godly soup reads .

You're scum, duck is town. Ez

[MattZed]

Sure.

I was 30 drinks deep and posting with godly soup reads .

You're scum, duck is town. Ez
Kek.

But seriously, I would like to see some reasoning-based reads.

[Titus]

MattZed, I can not believe you're asking me this. Liars are bad for us. They obfuscate things. If someone lies, then I want to know why. The best way to solve that is usually by voting. That's common sense.



It however seems my perception was caused by sloppy setup design.

SuperJack, if Duck claimed paired meant we all got free Bluetooth devices, would I be required to check that too?

[Titus]

Prince is town. Duck is probably town.

MiniZed is scum.

[Frog]

I'll be driving for the next 6-7 hours

I'll be accepting Mason applications

[MattZed]

In response to MiniZed:
I would direct you to the part of the setup that says roles are unique and that the neutral roles are paired. Our neuts are either Survivor/Savior or SK/Exec.

What about Yuki's jokes gives you more of a scum impression than a null impression? Are you voting Yuki because he's seeming really scummy to you, or simply because he's scummier than everyone else? (also, there is a space in his name unless you meant to fakevote)


Titus seems to be more cautious with the few posts they've said. FROG seems to be drunk.
These are objective facts. Why do you phrase them as merely "seeming" to be?

[MattZed]

Prince is town. Duck is probably town.

MiniZed is scum.
That's a lot of conclusions to be making for someone who seems super intent on the argument that town are uninformed.

Would you like to share some reasons for these reads?

[Titus]

Prince is town. Duck is probably town. Sj town.

MiniZed is scum.

[Titus]

That's a lot of conclusions to be making for someone who seems super intent on the argument that town are uninformed.

Would you like to share some reasons for these reads?

Nope.

[MiniZed]

I'm not voting though am I?

[Titus]

Oh minized is in my group.

MiniZed

[Titus]

I'll be driving for the next 6-7 hours

I'll be accepting Mason applications

I don't need a stinking mason. I'm applying for innocent child man.

[MattZed]

MattZed, I can not believe you're asking me this. Liars are bad for us. They obfuscate things. If someone lies, then I want to know why. The best way to solve that is usually by voting. That's common sense.



It however seems my perception was caused by sloppy setup design.

SuperJack, if Duck claimed paired meant we all got free Bluetooth devices, would I be required to check that too?
Well, I don't accept that liars are necessarily bad for us. Sure, there are some sites with a very strong anti-liar meta, but there are times when it would be helpful for town if the right people could tell strategic lies. Concretely, we want the neuts right now to lie and say that they're town so that they can potentially take bullets for town. Lying in and of itself isn't unhelpful, but with poor execution or sinister motivations, it ends poorly for us.

Frankly, I'm fine that you want to investigate, (although you suffer the same problem as MiniZed in spelling your vote incorrectly) but I want to makes sure that you're not going to end up pushing a lynch just because someone lied.

[MattZed]

Nope.

I apologize that I made asking for reasoning seem like it was merely a request. It wasn't.

Titus

[MiniZed]

In response to MiniZed:
I would direct you to the part of the setup that says roles are unique and that the neutral roles are paired. Our neuts are either Survivor/Savior or SK/Exec.

What about Yuki's jokes gives you more of a scum impression than a null impression? Are you voting Yuki because he's seeming really scummy to you, or simply because he's scummier than everyone else? (also, there is a space in his name unless you meant to fakevote)


These are objective facts. Why do you phrase them as merely "seeming" to be?

I already covered this. I was telling Prince there is a confirmed evil, I wasn't sure if I was reading up on it correctly.

Why does Yuki joke about being scum? To me it's a weird joke that I don't expect Yuki to make unless trying to seem like typical Yuki. I also feel like they have been less involved in discussion than normal, as well as less memes 😂😂

Honestly, Italk how I talk. This is questionable in every game I play, including the game that I said I was "probably town" (I was town, SuperJack can confirm this) and so it's not something new it's just how I talk when playing this game.

[MiniZed]

Prince is town. Duck is probably town. Sj town.

MiniZed is scum.

You are voting people who

1.) Accuse you
2.) "make up stuff" about you
3.) have no proof to back up your thoughts, and
4.) Have refused to cooperate or even be part of discussion.

[Titus]

Well, I don't accept that liars are necessarily bad for us. Sure, there are some sites with a very strong anti-liar meta, but there are times when it would be helpful for town if the right people could tell strategic lies. Concretely, we want the neuts right now to lie and say that they're town so that they can potentially take bullets for town. Lying in and of itself isn't unhelpful, but with poor execution or sinister motivations, it ends poorly for us.

Frankly, I'm fine that you want to investigate, (although you suffer the same problem as MiniZed in spelling your vote incorrectly) but I want to makes sure that you're not going to end up pushing a lynch just because someone lied.

Sites that don't threaten liars with lynch are bad sites. I am not going to debate this with you. Of course town lie sometimes. Why is the question. Unsatisfactory answers get rope.

Sorry if that's not how you play. Yet, given my last few games, you should be well aware that I know what I am doing.

Pissed you cannot lie as scum or overbearing control freak? Pick one.

[MiniZed]

Sorry, 3 and 4 are actually directed at you I just got off track.

[Titus]

You are voting people who

1.) Attack everyone and their brother - check
2.) "make up stuff" about you - thought so, was wrong
3.) have no proof to back up their thoughts - check
4.) Have refused to cooperate or even be part of discussion. - check

Eat rope. You're making this easy.

[MiniZed]

Matt, I didn't fix my vote because I don't want to vote Yuki anymore.

[MattZed]

I already covered this. I was telling Prince there is a confirmed evil, I wasn't sure if I was reading up on it correctly.

Why does Yuki joke about being scum? To me it's a weird joke that I don't expect Yuki to make unless trying to seem like typical Yuki. I also feel like they have been less involved in discussion than normal, as well as less memes ����

Honestly, Italk how I talk. This is questionable in every game I play, including the game that I said I was "probably town" (I was town, SuperJack can confirm this) and so it's not something new it's just how I talk when playing this game.
Just to be clear, how strongly are you scumreading Yuki based on the joke alone?

I'm fine with your talking style for now FWIW.

[MiniZed]

Just to be clear, how strongly are you scumreading Yuki based on the joke alone?

I'm fine with your talking style for now FWIW.

Not very strongly, otherwise I would have put my vote back.

I also don't feel like voting Titus. I can see the lack of cooperation, but no point in stacking votes too early.

[MattZed]

Sites that don't threaten liars with lynch are bad sites. I am not going to debate this with you. Of course town lie sometimes. Why is the question. Unsatisfactory answers get rope.

Sorry if that's not how you play. Yet, given my last few games, you should be well aware that I know what I am doing.

Pissed you cannot lie as scum or overbearing control freak? Pick one.
You're reading far more passion into my posts than I actually have. I don't give many shits about whether or not we follow LaL, but if you're going to start following a meta that this site simply doesn't have, I want to know why. "Oh, just lynch all liars, guys!" is a great way for a scum to sheep a convenient train, and I don't want you getting away with that if you're scum.


Eat rope. You're making this easy.
While we're just throwing out threats instead of actually having a discussion, eat rope yourself. =)

[MattZed]

Not very strongly, otherwise I would have put my vote back.

I also don't feel like voting Titus. I can see the lack of cooperation, but no point in stacking votes too early.
If it were near EoD, who would you be voting atm?

[MiniZed]

If it were near EoD, who would you be voting atm?

Titus. I don't see myself voting Duck right now, and Eggy seems pro-town but has not been around now. I am taking note though that he wants to "pardon me" this game. He always wants to lynch me, and the fact that he has said I probably won't lynch him but I might seems suspicious to me. It's like a half plan to gain my trust and a half plan to take me down if it comes to that.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Busy till at least midnight with homework skype mafia and 2 fms, so this wont be the most wowing post ever, but I have a very strong town read on unknown, and I will explain it, but later.

I would also like titus to post her scum reasoning on unknown before I town shield him.

I do agree with her read on prince, not sure how she had superjack as town currently though.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Titus, why do you prefer to vote people for saying untrue things? What does it actually accomplish for you in the game right now? (honest question)


PLZLEAVEDUCKK, if you knew what about your behavior was AI and NAI, then you'd have a nearly-perfect winrate as scum by blending so darned well. You're not off the hook, and I want to see more from you.


Eggy, do you care to expand more on those reads, or are you just going to leave them there?


No, Frog, I'm not. I was making a quick post in the morning because I had to go but wanted to leave instructions for how this day should go. You've been notorious for keeping things close to your chest as scum (see: Sen's nearly-canceled game or Fire's UPICK) unless you're under a lot of pressure. You've admitted yourself that it's up to town, not scum, to drive discussion, and if you're scum I'm not letting you get away with your historically successful scumplay.

On that note, do you have any reads that you would like to back up with reasoning? Surely the masterful Frog would have a lot to say right now as town.

This is playing just a bit dense. Perhaps it's just a difference in site culture, but a plain reading of the setup (and the discussion thereof in the setup there) confirms that roles are "paired" in the sense that if one is present in the game, then so is the other. Every non-citizen thus knows the existence of at least one other role in the game. Quick doesn't need to tell you this; it's just in the setup.

The act of making a reads list is NAI. I might have differences in those read lists that lean town or mafia that I am unaware of. If I ever make a reads list, you cant say "he is town for making a reads list". You have to say "he is town because his reads make sense, and are what I thought" or "he is mafia, i dont agree with the logic and it does not make sense how he got to that conclusion."

FYI as every alignment I would ping someone out for townreading me off something that wasnt AI.

[MattZed]

The act of making a reads list is NAI. I might have differences in those read lists that lean town or mafia that I am unaware of. If I ever make a reads list, you cant say "he is town for making a reads list". You have to say "he is town because his reads make sense, and are what I thought" or "he is mafia, i dont agree with the logic and it does not make sense how he got to that conclusion."

FYI as every alignment I would ping someone out for townreading me off something that wasnt AI.
Duckk, I'm not saying you're wrong, but I did explain that I was giving you minor towncred for a readlist with at least half-decent reasoning, which currently seems to be more than most people (ahem, Titus) can care to give atm.

[SuperJack]

MattZed, I can not believe you're asking me this. Liars are bad for us. They obfuscate things. If someone lies, then I want to know why. The best way to solve that is usually by voting. That's common sense.



It however seems my perception was caused by sloppy setup design.

SuperJack, if Duck claimed paired meant we all got free Bluetooth devices, would I be required to check that too?

Why do you prod me for stupid questions?

I'm more concerned to at, why again, you are trying to continue this on.

Have you had another look at the setup and understood it yet?
is there anything you want me to clear up for you?

[ThePrince]

it is mod confirmed that paired means in the game together, which is why i said if miller wanted to claim they should fake enabler.

Therefore your reasoning is now gone.

As for your bold inquiry prince,

If I am sheriff, I know a miller is in the game. If I am miller, I know sheriff is in the game.

Survivor knows cult, cult knows survivor, etc.

It is impossible for someone to not know another person's role unless they are citizen. The mafia know the name of the role, the other players only know the role exists.

Okay, makes sense.

-I side with Titus concerning Lynch All Liars, in a text based game words and arguments is all we have. MattZed made a good point but that scenario is not common. Is it? It seems to me that for a neutral or town citizen to lie concerning alignment, the only way we can know their lying is after their role has been shown or a cop outs themselves and says their lying. The former does not matter and the latter is highly unlikely since a cop is not doing that.

[Titus]

Busy till at least midnight with homework skype mafia and 2 fms, so this wont be the most wowing post ever, but I have a very strong town read on unknown, and I will explain it, but later.

I would also like titus to post her scum reasoning on unknown before I town shield him.

I do agree with her read on prince, not sure how she had superjack as town currently though.

His interactions with me are transparently town. He sees my scumhunting.

Unknown FoSes everyone and their brother, while waiting for something to stick, zero follow through. He's not looking to sort players but is looking for reasons to attack instead. Oh and he still hasn't given a valid reason for anything. Plus, he and Matt seem desperate for things to tear apart.

[Titus]

Why do you prod me for stupid questions?

I'm more concerned to at, why again, you are trying to continue this on.

Have you had another look at the setup and understood it yet?
is there anything you want me to clear up for you?

I have the same thought. The position taken was a stretch to anyone used to "pairs" meaning investigator pairings.

Quick resolved it. It was sloppy design.

I just want to know the extent I need to pester the mod when someone disagrees with me. I don't view it as stupid but perhaps I was a little bitchy.

[Titus]

Blah no one is here to enjoy drunk Titus.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Back, I'm read for anything

[MattZed]

His interactions with me are transparently town. He sees my scumhunting.

Unknown FoSes everyone and their brother, while waiting for something to stick, zero follow through. He's not looking to sort players but is looking for reasons to attack instead. Oh and he still hasn't given a valid reason for anything. Plus, he and Matt seem desperate for things to tear apart.
Titus, how are you differentiating between a scum Unknown who's looking for any excuse to get a mislynch off vs. a town Unknown who is trying to prod/pressure people to find who the scum is?

[Titus]

Titus, how are you differentiating between a scum Unknown who's looking for any excuse to get a mislynch off vs. a town Unknown who is trying to prod/pressure people to find who the scum is?

Follow through, coherent arguments, pushing his interpretation

That's like totally missing here.

Superjack thinks I am an arrogant prick at the moment and wants to find out why. Unknown is more obsessed with surface level. Does she know I am scum kinda thinking

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

22 hours left.

Seems like eggy and yuki are not really on the chopping block.

I had been town reading unknown, I will have to go back and search him maybe now, maybe later when I have time.

Titus has felt weird all game, but I am not sure the weirdness I am getting from her play is scum indicative. She misread my posts, the setup, etc. but I really do not see how that helps her as any possible role she could have gotten, and I don't think being not town would make her play off this much.

I will try to look into my group before back to studying again -_-. After I leave to read, I will check in occasionally if any night owls have questions for the duckinator.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Nope cant do it right now, only got halfway through before my brain gave up working for the day. Off to fail another round of studying. #cpa exam. Will finish the iso on unknown and do others in the morning

[Quick]

Back, I'm read for anything

This is a friendly reminder to keep fluff posts to a minimum.

[MattZed]

Follow through, coherent arguments, pushing his interpretation

That's like totally missing here.

Superjack thinks I am an arrogant prick at the moment and wants to find out why. Unknown is more obsessed with surface level. Does she know I am scum kinda thinking
tbh you've been a bit defensive in tone lately. I think SJ is much more relaxed than you're making him out to be.

I trust Unknown because I'm 90% confident he let his role slip. I'm not quoting the post today, but I think I know his role, and it's not mafia.


22 hours left.

Seems like eggy and yuki are not really on the chopping block.

I had been town reading unknown, I will have to go back and search him maybe now, maybe later when I have time.

Titus has felt weird all game, but I am not sure the weirdness I am getting from her play is scum indicative. She misread my posts, the setup, etc. but I really do not see how that helps her as any possible role she could have gotten, and I don't think being not town would make her play off this much.

I will try to look into my group before back to studying again -_-. After I leave to read, I will check in occasionally if any night owls have questions for the duckinator.
Eggy isn't safe atm. Neither is Yuki. They're getting a pass now because they've been mostly inactive, but I don't think a single person has even gotten to L-3 yet. People have simply been complacent with their votes. (which isn't entirely surprising in a game with only 6 town)

But really Duckk, if you're town, half of the people in your section aren't. Surely you can offer up someone who isn't fitting in just right? If you have a case on Eggy or Yuki that isn't moon logic, I'll hear it.

[Titus]

Yeah, I don't think unknown slips his role this early. Since when has unknown been careless? Why haven't you tried to figure out why if you believed that?

Why are you complaining about the lack of wagons going anywhere, not pushing a wagon, yet hard against an unknown wagon?

[MattZed]

Yeah, I don't think unknown slips his role this early. Since when has unknown been careless? Why haven't you tried to figure out why if you believed that?

Why are you complaining about the lack of wagons going anywhere, not pushing a wagon, yet hard against an unknown wagon?
It happens, and if you look for it, you might find it. I suspect this is along the lines of what PLZLEAVEDUCKK has picked up on as well. But I'm simply not going to say more on the subject.

I've pushed more than anyone here, but y'all aren't giving me much in the way of responses to work with. My vote accomplished what it needed to: it got you to start explaining your reasoning more. I've pushed your train in proportion to how much I like it. As it stands, it's day 1 and most things being given off are null. You've been hypersensitive to prods, but it's not enough to be an outright "my scumdar has detected Titus lynch her now gogogo."

Right now, I'd lynch you, Eggy, or Yuki. Unknown is clear for me because of the slip, and I'm temporarily allowing Duckk to slide as he continues to flesh out his reasoning. (I would very much like to check if his case to defend Unknown is the same as my own, though) You're a mild scumlean, and Eggy+Yuki are basically just policy lynches for reduced activity.

[Titus]

Oh nice try on that one. I don't give two shits about your vote. I answered because Eggy asked and they are not likely scum.

You couldn't even bother defending unknown against my points (you know they are true), so you're acting as if slipping your role before a major wagon appears is townie (it isn't) and you still haven't give reasons for your reads. All you've done is ask people for others.

Yet, unknown doesn't attack you. That's selective scumhunting at best. And that's a scum indicator too.

So why should I be townreading either of you?

[MattZed]

Oh nice try on that one. I don't give two shits about your vote. I answered because Eggy asked and they are not likely scum.

You couldn't even bother defending unknown against my points (you know they are true), so you're acting as if slipping your role before a major wagon appears is townie (it isn't) and you still haven't give reasons for your reads. All you've done is ask people for others.

Yet, unknown doesn't attack you. That's selective scumhunting at best. And that's a scum indicator too.

So why should I be townreading either of you?
I must say, I do enjoy getting absolutely nowhere with you.

I've given my reasons for every vote and every read I've made. I find it hard to believe that a town in your position would be capable of that degree of a misrep.

Suggesting Unknown and I could be scumbuddies because Unknown hasn't "attacked" me is reaching at best. The only person Unknown's been truly aggressive against is you. And for the most part the people going after you are all you pay attention to. It just so happens that the two people applying even the remotest prod to you are looking like scum? That's really just too convenient.

I have trouble seeing myself changing my vote for the rest of the day. As you say, eat rope.

[Titus]

No. You haven't. Throwing buzzwords and lies is hardly explaining yourself at all.

Also, I love how you cherrypick one observation that I make, don't deny it, but shade and say it's not enough. Selective scumhunting has long been an indicator of scuminess.

Then you shade again by saying I only pay attention to those going after me, which is also fiction.

I am not surprised that when I highlight your behavior you threaten me rather than analyzing things.

I specifically asked you why you thought a role "slip" could come from town (obviously not going to ask where in case I am wrong). You showed zero analysis on that point.

I asked you where unknown was town by play. Zero analysis.

I asked you about unknown's selective scumhunting. You whined about a well known tell.

You've tried to sell yourself as scumhunting me, but you aren't even intelligently replying to what I am saying. Rather, you are throwing copious amounts of shade hoping that I would look defensive.

You still don't justify shit.

[Titus]

Now, if you'll excuse me. I'll leave you with my favorite Donald Trump impression.

"I'm number one. What y'all need three times the resources, I can do with one. Some people would say catching the scum too early is a negative thing. Me, I say it's a challenge to work on persuasion."

Y'all in?

[MattZed]

No. You haven't. Throwing buzzwords and lies is hardly explaining yourself at all.

Also, I love how you cherrypick one observation that I make, don't deny it, but shade and say it's not enough. Selective scumhunting has long been an indicator of scuminess.

Then you shade again by saying I only pay attention to those going after me, which is also fiction.

I am not surprised that when I highlight your behavior you threaten me rather than analyzing things.

I specifically asked you why you thought a role "slip" could come from town (obviously not going to ask where in case I am wrong). You showed zero analysis on that point.

I asked you where unknown was town by play. Zero analysis.

I asked you about unknown's selective scumhunting. You whined about a well known tell.

You've tried to sell yourself as scumhunting me, but you aren't even intelligently replying to what I am saying. Rather, you are throwing copious amounts of shade hoping that I would look defensive.

You still don't justify shit.
Hoping you look defensive? You are defensive. You're accusing me of lying but you don't even put in the effort to say what the alleged lies are.

I've made clear I'm not talking more about Unknown's slip. Not discussing why I think a non-mafia can slip is part of that. Period.

Aaaaand then the misrep pours in. I'm not here to defend Unknown's play and given the lack of any sort of consensus to pressure him, I don't see a reason to. I read him because of his slip, not because of his play. He's made a mere 20 posts, none of them accomplishing much. I'm not giving him anything other than a null based on play. Looking more into Unknown is simply not my concern here.

I didn't complain about you using a tell. I pointed out that the tell isn't even remotely valid here. Unknown has hardly given deep thoughts on anyone, so the idea "oh, he's not attacking this one person, must be his scum partner" is completely shit because he's not going after people to begin with. But then you invoke an even more subtle misrep: You started talking about who Unknown was "attacking," which of course doesn't include me, but now you're talking scumhunting in general. Unknown has given comments on some of my posts and how he feels about them. Not terribly fleshed out, sure, but he's said thoughts about me, and you need to stop pretending that didn't happen.

And there you end with your strongest misrep. I'm the one not justifying shit? Please. Just belly up already. A town Titus would not be so wildly misrepping someone going after her, but a scum Titus has all the reason in the world to discredit the most vocal town. You almost could not be more transparent.

[Orpz]

An exclamation of surprise at the lack of shitposts, as well as an irrelevant commentary on how Criminal Minds firing Thomas Gibson was justified but unfortunate.

[Orpz]

No. You haven't. Throwing buzzwords and lies is hardly explaining yourself at all.

Also, I love how you cherrypick one observation that I make, don't deny it, but shade and say it's not enough. Selective scumhunting has long been an indicator of scuminess.

Then you shade again by saying I only pay attention to those going after me, which is also fiction.

I am not surprised that when I highlight your behavior you threaten me rather than analyzing things.

I specifically asked you why you thought a role "slip" could come from town (obviously not going to ask where in case I am wrong). You showed zero analysis on that point.

I asked you where unknown was town by play. Zero analysis.

I asked you about unknown's selective scumhunting. You whined about a well known tell.

You've tried to sell yourself as scumhunting me, but you aren't even intelligently replying to what I am saying. Rather, you are throwing copious amounts of shade hoping that I would look defensive.

You still don't justify shit.

An infuriatingly brief post about my confidence in Titus's town alignment.

[Yukitaka Oni]

tbh you've been a bit defensive in tone lately. I think SJ is much more relaxed than you're making him out to be.

I trust Unknown because I'm 90% confident he let his role slip. I'm not quoting the post today, but I think I know his role, and it's not mafia.


Eggy isn't safe atm. Neither is Yuki. They're getting a pass now because they've been mostly inactive, but I don't think a single person has even gotten to L-3 yet. People have simply been complacent with their votes. (which isn't entirely surprising in a game with only 6 town)

But really Duckk, if you're town, half of the people in your section aren't. Surely you can offer up someone who isn't fitting in just right? If you have a case on Eggy or Yuki that isn't moon logic, I'll hear it.
Just read everything, wait for my post

[Yukitaka Oni]

Also, there can be only one true Zed.

MiniZed


If random voting only worked by voting people who were online, it wouldn't be readable.

Yukitaka Oni

Nice try, Jester. ;)


Oh, just making sure the plebs don't suspect us.

How are you gonna make it through D1?


Duckk, if you wanna powerwolf and take town leadership, you're going to have to be less pedantic. Trying to draw meaningful conclusions from the first 50 post isn't pro-town, it's just fantasy.


Boy, that is some interesting rampant speculation. Someone more easily triggered would yell "PRE-FLIP ASSOCIATION."


One of the primary assets of being mafia is being able to make the first move; you know who everyone is, so you don't need to sit around and figure out who your allies are. Right now, I'm not seeing someone who's doing the cautious reads I'd expect from a fellow town. I'm seeing someone who's trying to get themselves townread out of sheer activity.

PLZLEAVEDUCKK


That's a false equivalence. Giving role-themed information in one's posts is distinct from a fluff post that can only be interpreted as something more sinister if you suppose that I'm mafia and Yuki rolled a neutral that might not even exist in this game.


Oh, first I'm a mafia allied to Malicious Savior Yuki, and now I'm neutral scumslipping? Please, continue on about how clearly scummy I'm being.

Your argument that mafia aren't informed because of the existence of neutrals is severely flawed. Mafia wincon is to eliminate 3 people in one of the groups while keeping themselves alive. It doesn't matter if they eliminate town or neutral; they just need 3 people dead. They know all of the information they need, so they can get to their objective right away. This is precisely what I mean by informed.


The easiest explanation is that it was a FLUFF POST that Yuki made in response to being RV'd. If you want to read motivation into something, you don't just ask "is this helpful to town," but rather "how likely would Town Yuki have made this post, and how likely would scum Yuki have made this post?" and weigh this with the proportion of scum and town in the game. Given that Yuki is known for fluff, making a fluff post early on doesn't indicate scum for him.

I'm fine explaining Bayes' Rule to you, since you are clearly failing to grasp it, but not being helpful to town =/= scum motivated.


No, Duckk, I'm not accepting the conclusion that you're bad. You're either scum (including neut) and just throwing shit out there to help your objective, or you're town with room to improve on your play. You don't get to say "I'm making bad plays." If you're town, think before you post; and if you're scum, then my vote is well placed.


Before getting to Duckk's most recent post, something I've noticed from the setup spec:

A MILLAR SHOULD NOT CLAIM.

Millars are 3 HP and thus not insta-killed by the night kill. If they claim they are telling the mafia "go look in the other group and you might find a negative utility 1 HP town you can kill." If there's a Sheriff, they already know a Millar exists and you can claim your probably-unique role then if you are unluckily checked. Until then, think of yourself as someone who can take a bullet.

Speaking of which, I'm realizing now that random voting may have been a mistake.

IF YOU HAVE NOT VOTED YET, DO NOT VOTE, BUT INDICATE WHO YOU WOULD VOTE IF IT WAS END OF DAY.

Actors can only hammer and are also 1 HP. If we have one, our random voting will out the actor as being the only person who didn't vote, and if we don't have a doctor to heal them, RIP.


I'm not sure I accept the idea that Yuki's post was at all unusual, but even if I did, you are a pushing a very specific hypothesis. You're supposing that there is a Malicious Savior, that it's Yuki, that I'm Mafia, and that Yuki, as Malicious Savior, would choose his second post to try to reveal himself to his mafia allies discretely. This is way more than one post allows you to suspect. I'm not treating your hypothesis seriously because I'm town and thus know it's wrong, but even from an outsider's perspective it's waaaaaay too far fetched, which makes me suspicious of why you're making it in the first place.


I RETRACT WHAT I SAID ABOUT NOT RANDOM VOTING. GO AHEAD.


This is sheer moon logic.

You are claiming that, from one fluff post at the start of the game, you can figure out who 2/3 of the scum are. Just sanity check yourself and ask which is more likely: You found the biggest scumslip of all time on page 1 and everyone else missed it, or you've come up with a crazy theory that probably isn't true?

But you still approach the probability incorrectly. You haven't answered "is Malicious Savior Yuki more likely to have made that post than Town (or any other alignment, really) Yuki, and if so, by how much?" If you really think there's a 0% chance a non-MS Yuki would make that post, then I really don't know where to begin with you.


And as Duckk departs, I'll note for those reading the thread later that my vote against Duckk is not random.

Duckk's train of thought evades logic and common sense. The evidence to support his theory simply doesn't exist, and the fact that he continues to push his theory makes me wonder "is Duckk actually reading this game?" The only way I can see him not realizing his theory is bad is if he doesn't actually care.

And there's the flaw. Town should be concerned about how accurate their reads are. They may have faulty reasoning at times or hunches they can't explain, but their reads should follow plainly from their reasoning. Duckk's doesn't, and it doesn't bother him. I haven't ruled out that he's town simply trying to "stir the pot" before the real stage of the game begins, but he certainly has a lot of explaining to do, and I want to hear it when he gets back.


Some more banter at MattZed for not reading the setup, followed by a quote from the setup that states the uniqueness of roles.


Orpz you dolt he's in group 2.

As for things to happen since I left:
I'm actually a big fan of Duckk providing a quick read list now that people have had a chance to check in. He's not off the hook yet for moon logic, but he makes a read list that cites specific things people have been doing, so I'm not scumreading him as strongly as when I signed off last night.

Times like this remind me that Frog has an incredibly infuriating playstyle. Time and again I've seen him enter a game and refuse to give information until the last minute, and he's doing it again here. The only positions he's advanced is that Titus is hard to read, Duckk is obvious town, and I'm obvious scum. And yet he doesn't list the reasoning. How can I tell the difference between a Frog who's town hiding his reasons for supporting Duckk and scum Frog who's trying to pocket an active player? You can't. Right now he's pushing that I'm obv scum for having an "objective perspective," without going into any details of what that is or why it might be a scumtell. Discrediting one of the most vocal members of town so far without explaining why? Yeah, no. Not letting that slide. Frog is a scumlean and I'd be voting him now if he were in group 1.

HOLD. FROG. ACCOUNTABLE.

Eggy needs to read the setup, but him seeming to think Jester is actually a role in the game may have been a non-neutral slip.

Titus should post more substance. Null

Null on Orpz/SJ

ThePrince is reading the game and using their short post for substance. Townlean.


lol I concede this point.


Titus, why do you prefer to vote people for saying untrue things? What does it actually accomplish for you in the game right now? (honest question)


PLZLEAVEDUCKK, if you knew what about your behavior was AI and NAI, then you'd have a nearly-perfect winrate as scum by blending so darned well. You're not off the hook, and I want to see more from you.


Eggy, do you care to expand more on those reads, or are you just going to leave them there?


No, Frog, I'm not. I was making a quick post in the morning because I had to go but wanted to leave instructions for how this day should go. You've been notorious for keeping things close to your chest as scum (see: Sen's nearly-canceled game or Fire's UPICK) unless you're under a lot of pressure. You've admitted yourself that it's up to town, not scum, to drive discussion, and if you're scum I'm not letting you get away with your historically successful scumplay.

On that note, do you have any reads that you would like to back up with reasoning? Surely the masterful Frog would have a lot to say right now as town.

This is playing just a bit dense. Perhaps it's just a difference in site culture, but a plain reading of the setup (and the discussion thereof in the setup there) confirms that roles are "paired" in the sense that if one is present in the game, then so is the other. Every non-citizen thus knows the existence of at least one other role in the game. Quick doesn't need to tell you this; it's just in the setup.


Honestly, when I skimmed through the thread to read what I missed, I skipped over your posts because I thought they were mine.


Kek.

But seriously, I would like to see some reasoning-based reads.


In response to MiniZed:
I would direct you to the part of the setup that says roles are unique and that the neutral roles are paired. Our neuts are either Survivor/Savior or SK/Exec.

What about Yuki's jokes gives you more of a scum impression than a null impression? Are you voting Yuki because he's seeming really scummy to you, or simply because he's scummier than everyone else? (also, there is a space in his name unless you meant to fakevote)


These are objective facts. Why do you phrase them as merely "seeming" to be?


That's a lot of conclusions to be making for someone who seems super intent on the argument that town are uninformed.

Would you like to share some reasons for these reads?


Well, I don't accept that liars are necessarily bad for us. Sure, there are some sites with a very strong anti-liar meta, but there are times when it would be helpful for town if the right people could tell strategic lies. Concretely, we want the neuts right now to lie and say that they're town so that they can potentially take bullets for town. Lying in and of itself isn't unhelpful, but with poor execution or sinister motivations, it ends poorly for us.

Frankly, I'm fine that you want to investigate, (although you suffer the same problem as MiniZed in spelling your vote incorrectly) but I want to makes sure that you're not going to end up pushing a lynch just because someone lied.


I apologize that I made asking for reasoning seem like it was merely a request. It wasn't.

Titus


Just to be clear, how strongly are you scumreading Yuki based on the joke alone?

I'm fine with your talking style for now FWIW.


You're reading far more passion into my posts than I actually have. I don't give many shits about whether or not we follow LaL, but if you're going to start following a meta that this site simply doesn't have, I want to know why. "Oh, just lynch all liars, guys!" is a great way for a scum to sheep a convenient train, and I don't want you getting away with that if you're scum.


While we're just throwing out threats instead of actually having a discussion, eat rope yourself. =)


If it were near EoD, who would you be voting atm?


Duckk, I'm not saying you're wrong, but I did explain that I was giving you minor towncred for a readlist with at least half-decent reasoning, which currently seems to be more than most people (ahem, Titus) can care to give atm.


Titus, how are you differentiating between a scum Unknown who's looking for any excuse to get a mislynch off vs. a town Unknown who is trying to prod/pressure people to find who the scum is?


tbh you've been a bit defensive in tone lately. I think SJ is much more relaxed than you're making him out to be.

I trust Unknown because I'm 90% confident he let his role slip. I'm not quoting the post today, but I think I know his role, and it's not mafia.


Eggy isn't safe atm. Neither is Yuki. They're getting a pass now because they've been mostly inactive, but I don't think a single person has even gotten to L-3 yet. People have simply been complacent with their votes. (which isn't entirely surprising in a game with only 6 town)

But really Duckk, if you're town, half of the people in your section aren't. Surely you can offer up someone who isn't fitting in just right? If you have a case on Eggy or Yuki that isn't moon logic, I'll hear it.


It happens, and if you look for it, you might find it. I suspect this is along the lines of what PLZLEAVEDUCKK has picked up on as well. But I'm simply not going to say more on the subject.

I've pushed more than anyone here, but y'all aren't giving me much in the way of responses to work with. My vote accomplished what it needed to: it got you to start explaining your reasoning more. I've pushed your train in proportion to how much I like it. As it stands, it's day 1 and most things being given off are null. You've been hypersensitive to prods, but it's not enough to be an outright "my scumdar has detected Titus lynch her now gogogo."

Right now, I'd lynch you, Eggy, or Yuki. Unknown is clear for me because of the slip, and I'm temporarily allowing Duckk to slide as he continues to flesh out his reasoning. (I would very much like to check if his case to defend Unknown is the same as my own, though) You're a mild scumlean, and Eggy+Yuki are basically just policy lynches for reduced activity.


I must say, I do enjoy getting absolutely nowhere with you.

I've given my reasons for every vote and every read I've made. I find it hard to believe that a town in your position would be capable of that degree of a misrep.

Suggesting Unknown and I could be scumbuddies because Unknown hasn't "attacked" me is reaching at best. The only person Unknown's been truly aggressive against is you. And for the most part the people going after you are all you pay attention to. It just so happens that the two people applying even the remotest prod to you are looking like scum? That's really just too convenient.

I have trouble seeing myself changing my vote for the rest of the day. As you say, eat rope.


Hoping you look defensive? You are defensive. You're accusing me of lying but you don't even put in the effort to say what the alleged lies are.

I've made clear I'm not talking more about Unknown's slip. Not discussing why I think a non-mafia can slip is part of that. Period.

Aaaaand then the misrep pours in. I'm not here to defend Unknown's play and given the lack of any sort of consensus to pressure him, I don't see a reason to. I read him because of his slip, not because of his play. He's made a mere 20 posts, none of them accomplishing much. I'm not giving him anything other than a null based on play. Looking more into Unknown is simply not my concern here.

I didn't complain about you using a tell. I pointed out that the tell isn't even remotely valid here. Unknown has hardly given deep thoughts on anyone, so the idea "oh, he's not attacking this one person, must be his scum partner" is completely shit because he's not going after people to begin with. But then you invoke an even more subtle misrep: You started talking about who Unknown was "attacking," which of course doesn't include me, but now you're talking scumhunting in general. Unknown has given comments on some of my posts and how he feels about them. Not terribly fleshed out, sure, but he's said thoughts about me, and you need to stop pretending that didn't happen.

And there you end with your strongest misrep. I'm the one not justifying shit? Please. Just belly up already. A town Titus would not be so wildly misrepping someone going after her, but a scum Titus has all the reason in the world to discredit the most vocal town. You almost could not be more transparent.
Matt, either you're town or you are neutral in my read now.

[SuperJack]

I have the same thought. The position taken was a stretch to anyone used to "pairs" meaning investigator pairings.

Quick resolved it. It was sloppy design.

I just want to know the extent I need to pester the mod when someone disagrees with me. I don't view it as stupid but perhaps I was a little bitchy.

Good good. Thoughts on orpz annoying style of posting. I find it distracting and harder to read.

[MiniZed]

I don't get what people have said about my role slipping at this point.

[MiniZed]

Yeah, I don't think unknown slips his role this early. Since when has unknown been careless? Why haven't you tried to figure out why if you believed that?

Why are you complaining about the lack of wagons going anywhere, not pushing a wagon, yet hard against an unknown wagon?

If you are being completely honest here, I have no idea where you are getting your idea of town!Unknown from. You are comparing me to (maybe?) that game where I was the bleeder otherwise you are characterizing me completely wrong on purpose.

1.) I make more slips when I'm town than when I'm scum. I say the stupidest things and then people catch me and it's like "this is dumb." I'm more cautious as scum.

I've hinted my role before, but this isn't relevant at all to most games that I play including this one. Not sure where Matt is getting his information from but it's probably a false conclusion.

Also you are only using points on me (which don't even make sense on me) for whatever reason. I haven't seen you comment on anything but myself and others whom accuse you, and you are acting way too aggressive which is relatable to games I've played with you. TBH I read you scum less now actually because this unnecessary pushing style did not remind me of last game, but the game before when you decided to push me for the dumbest reasons. (Sandbox if I'm not mistaken.) gut is telling me there are better lynches currently, and as sad as it is to say I'm usually not wrong.

That being said, I have not been making arguments at all other than slight points because I usually don't early on. You either have an entirely wrong view on me and my normal play style, or you are just trying to make me look worse.

[Yukitaka Oni]

I don't get what people have said about my role slipping at this point.
It would be awkward if you're a scum buddy with mattzed in this game. I know

[MiniZed]

His interactions with me are transparently town. He sees my scumhunting.

Unknown FoSes everyone and their brother, while waiting for something to stick, zero follow through. He's not looking to sort players but is looking for reasons to attack instead. Oh and he still hasn't given a valid reason for anything. Plus, he and Matt seem desperate for things to tear apart.

This makes no sense. I hope my "brother" is Matt otherwise no idea what you're saying.

Going to look at the rest of your arguments, but I've noticed you do one thing that I am strongly against specifically out of the context you took it from and how it was changed at such time.

[MiniZed]

It would be awkward if you're a scum buddy with mattzed in this game. I know

That would be fun though, :P

[MiniZed]

Oh nice try on that one. I don't give two shits about your vote. I answered because Eggy asked and they are not likely scum.

You couldn't even bother defending unknown against my points (you know they are true), so you're acting as if slipping your role before a major wagon appears is townie (it isn't) and you still haven't give reasons for your reads. All you've done is ask people for others.

Yet, unknown doesn't attack you. That's selective scumhunting at best. And that's a scum indicator too.

So why should I be townreading either of you?

Your argument is based on how you think I act, which is completely wrong and you only use this to describe me. I actually have no idea where you have this image of me, and for that reason it actually makes me more suspicious because you are doing what you said I was doing (and I was called scummy for that). Your only argument is that you are trying to pin me as scum because I'm not doing the stuff that I "normally" do as town.

Why would I want to attack MattZed? This is broken logic and I can't even follow what you are getting at.

[MiniZed]

Yeah, I don't think unknown slips his role this early. Since when has unknown been careless? Why haven't you tried to figure out why if you believed that?

Why are you complaining about the lack of wagons going anywhere, not pushing a wagon, yet hard against an unknown wagon?

The only game you played with me when I was Town was when I slipped my Bleeder role at like post #47. I have lost any slight town-read I had now.

[MiniZed]

You are voting people who

1.) Accuse you
2.) "make up stuff" about you
3.) have no proof to back up your thoughts, and
4.) Have refused to cooperate or even be part of discussion.

To return to the point mentioned previously, I corrected myself when I originally wrote this, and the only reason that Titus has kept up her argument is because of this. She actually never said anything about this before it.

To be clear, I was saying # 3 and 4 against Titus, but apparently she took this as me "attacking myself" which stuff that actually isn't true. I have backed up my points, about your lack of communication/cooperation and the fact that you are using this image of me and trying to make me look bad which is stupid.

I'm done now, nothing more to say and I am just repeating myself at this point.

[MiniZed]

Good good. Thoughts on orpz annoying style of posting. I find it distracting and harder to read.

SuperJack, have you taken any thought on the Me vs Titus and MZ vs Titus? Because last time I checked you were defending Titus by speaking for her and now you are picking on points outside the main argument ONLY.

[Titus]

MiniZed, I told you then and I told you now, I default as viewing such leaks as scum, depending on the role.

The only "lack of cooperation" I gave done us cooperating with mislynches. Instead, I have been showing players as town, boxing scum in. You engage in self meta too.

"Look at me, I slipped my role before in an anti-town fashion, I did it again so I am town. Oh and I'll assume that anyone who believes me when I say that is town with no further analysis. This even assumes I did slip my role, which I shouldn't be proud of."

[Titus]

Good good. Thoughts on orpz annoying style of posting. I find it distracting and harder to read.

Agree but he's not group 1 at the moment, so we cannot do much about him dicking around.

[Titus]

Meh, I reconsidered. I think Orpz should be left alone, and maybe forced to give irrelevant commentary on Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen.

[MiniZed]

MiniZed, I told you then and I told you now, I default as viewing such leaks as scum, depending on the role.

The only "lack of cooperation" I gave done us cooperating with mislynches. Instead, I have been showing players as town, boxing scum in. You engage in self meta too.

"Look at me, I slipped my role before in an anti-town fashion, I did it again so I am town. Oh and I'll assume that anyone who believes me when I say that is town with no further analysis. This even assumes I did slip my role, which I shouldn't be proud of."

You are presenting everything you say as if you are trying to fight everything. This isn't productive so I have no idea what you are doing.

I didn't leak. I even SAID that because I don't know what this argument is. You are assuming I slipped without actually knowing where I "slipped" which is beyond scummy.

No. you didn't answer multiple questions Matt and Duck asked because you didn't want to or "need to" (SuperJack too i think) so don't go around saying you cooperated.

Tell me who you interacted with other than the people you accused. Me and Matt, both people who accused you, AND at the time Duck too are the ONLY people you ever pushed. You can't say you don't scum-read the people who accuse you of being scum.

See point 1. I never said I Purposely slipped, but that your argument is weak because you've followed it before on me and you have screwed up. I don't know how you use that as a scum-slip, scum are more conscious and more careful than Town are.

[Titus]

Now, that's even more falsehoods. My whole argument has been supposing you slipped a role, you could still be scum seeking credit to match your town meta. Obviously, if you didn't, we know how I feel about liars.

Not flooding the thread with pointless questions, and seeing if you would whine about being caught are protown motivations and cooperating. A doormat doesn't cooperate. Intelligent people cooperate in their own way.

SuperJack I interacted with. Eggy I did even after I realized he was town. I don't have to comment on everything. On Ms, I am the queen of tunnels because I get my scum lynched.

[ThePrince]

Matt, either you're town or you are neutral in my read now.

You quoted all of those posts and that is all? I was expecting some epic analysis.



What makes you disagree? I myself might not be too sure, if we had nothing else to go off of it gets rid of a 3p instead of potentially leaving an enemy. (Side note, what if there are two survivors?)

I agree with not revealing the 3p at this point. Revealing them gives the mafia three confirmed town to hit from a single pool, which is bad for us opposed to a 3p possibly being hit.

Is that all you are going about with your vote then? I don't disagree with it at this point.

Sorry, I missed this post completely.

What was the "what makes you disagree?" question referring too? If it's the Titus claiming posts, I explained it and you touched on it.

At the time, yes.



-Yukitaka Oni: You're first 3 posts was fluff. The 4th post is about going to sleep. Your first post back was overly defensive (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37987-S-FM-212-Paired-Mafia?p=641721&viewfull=1#post641721) imo. You followed up with a series of posts that I categorize as fluff. This post right here (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37987-S-FM-212-Paired-Mafia?p=641725&viewfull=1#post641725) gives me cause for concern. In the setup it says "Mafia share DAY CHAT." Also, in the forum I'm coming from (granted it was not a mafia based forum) mafia always had a chat. So, saying mafia does not have a chat seems really off to me.

-vote Yukitaka Oni

-I town read Duck.
-MiniZed is lean town to me.
-Titus has had shaky moments in the game. I did not like his early claiming posts, I agreed with him on Lynch All Liars. He came off defensive at times. Lean scum, but Yuki is a stronger scum read for me.
-Eggy is neutral for me, right now. No read on him.

[Yukitaka Oni]

The Mafia and the neutral will feel ease when they vote anyone in their group, although that's not the case check for everyone (emotion) especially the people who decide to sheep vote and not vote.
Not much of a idea, but right now we should rather (pick) a group to lynch to narrow down the read pool and focus on 1 group rather than reading everyone. Basically we're going to do the same trick like the previous 3 group game

[Yukitaka Oni]

You quoted all of those posts and that is all? I was expecting some epic analysis.




Sorry, I missed this post completely.

What was the "what makes you disagree?" question referring too? If it's the Titus claiming posts, I explained it and you touched on it.

At the time, yes.



-Yukitaka Oni: You're first 3 posts was fluff. The 4th post is about going to sleep. Your first post back was overly defensive (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37987-S-FM-212-Paired-Mafia?p=641721&viewfull=1#post641721) imo. You followed up with a series of posts that I categorize as fluff. This post right here (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37987-S-FM-212-Paired-Mafia?p=641725&viewfull=1#post641725) gives me cause for concern. In the setup it says "Mafia share DAY CHAT." Also, in the forum I'm coming from (granted it was not a mafia based forum) mafia always had a chat. So, saying mafia does not have a chat seems really off to me.

-vote Yukitaka Oni

-I town read Duck.
-MiniZed is lean town to me.
-Titus has had shaky moments in the game. I did not like his early claiming posts, I agreed with him on Lynch All Liars. He came off defensive at times. Lean scum, but Yuki is a stronger scum read for me.
-Eggy is neutral for me, right now. No read on him.
>claim sleeping is lying
>thought human cannot sleep because it's a lie
Wow, such bot, such spam, robot much ? The only explanation why you thought sleeping is a lie is because you're a bot, not a human account bro. Hey skynet, who's the scum? Who's the neutral, show me, you'ol piece of junk robotic :V

[SuperJack]

LaL makes sense. Deters town from making stupid gambits. Only under some circumstances is it OK.

[SuperJack]

Hey Yuki. Name two people who are mafia =) in this game ^^ and then tell me why.

[MattZed]

Only time for a quick post. But oy, how is Titus only at L-4? Could someone who's townreading her please tell me how you still have this opinion after the blatant discrediting attempt in #175?

MiniZed, Yukitaka Oni, PLZLEAVEDUCKK, Orpz, Frog, SuperJack, ThePrince,

VOTE. SOMEONE.

If you're not voting because you somehow insist on giving a townread on Titus, at least say why and offer up one of the other four. We ARE NOT going to win this game by never voting, and leaving a day with no-lynch greatly increases risk that Mafia will just kill off a day before we have a chance to do anything about it.

[Titus]

MattZed: Zi need Titus dead and discredited. If you could hurry and be dumbasses so me and Unknown can win, that would be awesome.

[SuperJack]

I'll be more active after work

PLZLEAVEDUCKK
Too nice to be town. ;)

[Yukitaka Oni]

Hey Yuki. Name two people who are mafia =) in this game ^^ and then tell me why.
Why not 1 Mafia only? Since my plan is to narrow down 1 group first?

[Yukitaka Oni]

I'll be more active after work

PLZLEAVEDUCKK
Too nice to be town. ;)
I don't expect Duck to be Mafia again, his play style is not the same
But I prefer to vote Eggy over Titus for balance vote reasons

[Yukitaka Oni]

I don't expect Duck to be Mafia again, his play style is not the same
But I prefer to vote Eggy over Titus for balance vote reasons
MiniZed
But I believe Mini vs Eggy is more interesting

[MiniZed]

Yuki/Titus are the only good votes.

Titus

[MiniZed]

MiniZed
But I believe Mini vs Eggy is more interesting

How did you reach this conclusion?

What does Mini vs Eggy mean?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

yukitaka oni

[MiniZed]

Actually wait, I just thought of something more interesting.

Yukitaka Oni

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I'll be back later.

Still need to finish the unknown ISO, but from what I have seen there are things I like, and things I do not like. None of what I did not like triggered a scum read for me. I have a very consistent read on him, this feels similar to my town read on him in mafia wars ii.

Eggy is town? if you can even give a town read off the little I have seen from him. Him thinking I was town or jester is interesting. I think this a town/mafia slip since a neutral should know their own role or counter role. I don't think hes the type of player that would fuck around with that. Him reading me different once learning jester is not a possibility is why I say he leans town because it shows he had to reevaluate on me after learning I could not be a jester, and that leans town.

Titus - is probably the correct lynch, I really do not know what is going on with her this game. I still don't seem scum motivation in her play, but the constant misreps and poor interpretation starting from post 1?? is extremely odd and not helping town.

Yuki - potential breadcrumb at the start, which I am over, but he continues to post his similar stuff. He quoted all of mattzeds posts to make a 2 line post. Main reason my vote is on him is because he said I am not mafia this game because my playstyle is different. Breadcrumbs neutral at the start, now implies I am town because I am not mafia, it appears he is ignoring I could be neutral which tells me he is actually the neutral, but possibly not the cult one.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Hm...seem like there are many town....it could be mean 1 hidden neutral is serial killer.....but that also mean the other could be a healer....or a executioner....hm....this is hard...

[Yukitaka Oni]

Only time for a quick post. But oy, how is Titus only at L-4? Could someone who's townreading her please tell me how you still have this opinion after the blatant discrediting attempt in #175?

MiniZed, Yukitaka Oni, PLZLEAVEDUCKK, Orpz, Frog, SuperJack, ThePrince,

VOTE. SOMEONE.

If you're not voting because you somehow insist on giving a townread on Titus, at least say why and offer up one of the other four. We ARE NOT going to win this game by never voting, and leaving a day with no-lynch greatly increases risk that Mafia will just kill off a day before we have a chance to do anything about it.
Chill Matt, I already pick one

[MiniZed]

Yuki, did you just claim SURVIVOR?

[Yukitaka Oni]

Hey Yuki. Name two people who are mafia =) in this game ^^ and then tell me why.
I can guess group 1 more easily than group 2. Due to 25% instead of 20% in group 2

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I can guess group 1 more easily than group 2. Due to 25% instead of 20% in group 2

I think this is genuine, and I have read/seen the same neutral softclaim that unknown saw in yuki's last post

eggy- town x
unknown - town x
duck - i have crumbed my role earlier for later town x
titus - mafia?
yuki - neutral

Group 2 I don't even know where to begin with

mattzed - sigh probably town, seems to be more combative which I would not expect out of him as scum
orpz - his posting style is cancer, his points werent awful I guess....
superjack - Usually only scum reads me when hes scum. I think hes probably the neutral
frog - he was drunk, but his buddying of me screams mafia
who the fuck is left? Someone else is in group 2 and I don't know who so they can be town for now oh and I guess that makes orpz town, fuck.

I will give will reads on these players when I have time. No banerino for weak readwallerinos plz

[Yukitaka Oni]

Quick
What is day chat compare to night chat?

[MiniZed]

You missed Prince, duck.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Quick
What is day chat compare to night chat?

It should be the same thing.

Can you hard claim if you are survivor or if you are not survivor?

[Yukitaka Oni]

It should be the same thing.

Can you hard claim if you are survivor or if you are not survivor?
?!?! What are you talking about? What survivor? Who?

[Yukitaka Oni]

?!?! What are you talking about? What survivor? Who?
And what same?

[Yukitaka Oni]

?!?! What are you talking about? What survivor? Who?
Hard claim? Day 1? For real?
So confusing....what you really want to say

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I am going to the gym

Yuki why do you think titus is a better lynch than you.

If you don't think either of you are a good lynch why should people be voting me eggy or unknown.

I don't really think the neutrals are a threat in this game. Agent, consigliere, and Consort what we should be going for today.

Yes I am aware I am voting for my neutral read and that my thought does not match my action.

Superjack the rule is if you are going to vote me you have to put, I still love you at the end. Therefore I demand you unvote and revote me with that, thanks.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Get serious Duck, the host forced us to lynch group 1 and we only have 8 hours left. I don't care whoever told ya some stupid shitty thing, if it's a lie, leave it in the last will. Eggy won't show up much like me, doesn't mean he is scummier than me.

[Yukitaka Oni]

I am going to the gym

Yuki why do you think titus is a better lynch than you.

If you don't think either of you are a good lynch why should people be voting me eggy or unknown.

I don't really think the neutrals are a threat in this game. Agent, consigliere, and Consort what we should be going for today.

Yes I am aware I am voting for my neutral read and that my thought does not match my action.

Superjack the rule is if you are going to vote me you have to put, I still love you at the end. Therefore I demand you unvote and revote me with that, thanks.

Unknown? Lol? Who? Another smurf account again?

[Titus]

Hey Duck, the shade is noted, just because the mod wrote the setup awkwardly does not make what I said a misrep.

Glad you're not voting me but cmon man. I never misrep led anyone. Stop sucking and ltr.

Unknown is the only good lynch today.

[Titus]

Unknown? Lol? Who? Another smurf account again?

Unknown is MiniZed, the scumfuck.

[Yukitaka Oni]

You aren't an easy day 1 read. Your play when you replaced in Overwatch was very strong from the start, and I liked your opening in the last game. It was not until very late day1? and early day 2 where I picked up on you as mafia. I would rather be able to pressure prince and lynch him if he isnt town and be able to assess you tomorrow on a day where I should have a good indication of your alignment.

However if you wish to scrap today, I got a wicked beak attack.
Lynch because too hard to read day 1? Not a good reason

[Yukitaka Oni]

Unknown is MiniZed, the scumfuck.
Well, unknown play style is so weird this time, lying to gain a reason to vote people. Some dirty play, scum but....yeah, more reason for me to stay my vote

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Hey Duck, the shade is noted, just because the mod wrote the setup awkwardly does not make what I said a misrep.

Glad you're not voting me but cmon man. I never misrep led anyone. Stop sucking and ltr.

Unknown is the only good lynch today.

shade? I have been saying "I don't see the scum motivation in what she is doing". I will have to recheck but I believe your response to my first post in the game was not about the setup. Every game people try to lynch unknown, and I am forced to defend him. When I am back, unless the second half of my ISO changes my mind, I will not be voting unknown. I don't particularly want to vote you either, but I can't kill from group 2 and I think in order of scum from group 1 it is :
Yuki
Titus
unknown=eggy

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Get serious Duck, the host forced us to lynch group 1 and we only have 8 hours left. I don't care whoever told ya some stupid shitty thing, if it's a lie, leave it in the last will. Eggy won't show up much like me, doesn't mean he is scummier than me.

Tell me why you are town and others are not then....

I am serious, but I can only work with what you give me.

[MiniZed]

Unknown is MiniZed, the scumfuck.

LMAO. The discredit there is real. Have you even looked at Yuki/Eggy?

[MiniZed]

Well, unknown play style is so weird this time, lying to gain a reason to vote people. Some dirty play, scum but....yeah, more reason for me to stay my vote

I don't think I've lied this game. Show me where I lied though.

How else has my play been scummy?

[Yukitaka Oni]

shade? I have been saying "I don't see the scum motivation in what she is doing". I will have to recheck but I believe your response to my first post in the game was not about the setup. Every game people try to lynch unknown, and I am forced to defend him. When I am back, unless the second half of my ISO changes my mind, I will not be voting unknown. I don't particularly want to vote you either, but I can't kill from group 2 and I think in order of scum from group 1 it is :
Yuki
Titus
unknown=eggy
Dude what in the Fk? Unknown play 2 account?

[Quick]

Quick
What is day chat compare to night chat?

Its the same except Mafia can talk any time they want in private.

[Orpz]

Okay, makes sense.

-I side with Titus concerning Lynch All Liars, in a text based game words and arguments is all we have. MattZed made a good point but that scenario is not common. Is it? It seems to me that for a neutral or town citizen to lie concerning alignment, the only way we can know their lying is after their role has been shown or a cop outs themselves and says their lying. The former does not matter and the latter is highly unlikely since a cop is not doing that.

Fascinating...

[Eggy]

been busy guys sorry ill b back on tnight and Ill share all my updated thoughts.

[Orpz]

Hey Yuki. Name two people who are mafia =) in this game ^^ and then tell me why.

Not Yuki but I'd just like to remind you that there will be tension between us as I'm pretty sure you're scum but have nothing solid to back it up with yet.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Its the same except Mafia can talk any time they want in private.
They can talk 24/7? Or only on the day?

[Yukitaka Oni]

Great....I'm alone again, and once they show up, they called me lurk. Double standards asshole player....

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

about to shower and then catch up in my games before i start doing more homework!!

If anyone has questions fire away.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

4 hours to go....

I am straight up putting eggy off the table.

If people want to lynch unknown, i will do what I can to prevent it unless you want to actually do something convincing otherwise

I want to lynch within yuki/titus, with a huge huge emphasis on yuki. I think there is a greater chance yuki is a hit and eggy is just afk scum where titus is mistaken confused town. Would rather that be sorted out day 2 or 3 and go for a more likely hit.

And im an option of course.

[Orpz]

4 hours to go....

I am straight up putting eggy off the table.

If people want to lynch unknown, i will do what I can to prevent it unless you want to actually do something convincing otherwise

I want to lynch within yuki/titus, with a huge huge emphasis on yuki. I think there is a greater chance yuki is a hit and eggy is just afk scum where titus is mistaken confused town. Would rather that be sorted out day 2 or 3 and go for a more likely hit.

And im an option of course.

Yuki did nothing wrong. Explain to me again why Eggy shouldn't be swinging from a rope at day's end?

[Yukitaka Oni]

4 hours to go....

I am straight up putting eggy off the table.

If people want to lynch unknown, i will do what I can to prevent it unless you want to actually do something convincing otherwise

I want to lynch within yuki/titus, with a huge huge emphasis on yuki. I think there is a greater chance yuki is a hit and eggy is just afk scum where titus is mistaken confused town. Would rather that be sorted out day 2 or 3 and go for a more likely hit.

And im an option of course.


Yuki did nothing wrong. Explain to me again why Eggy shouldn't be swinging from a rope at day's end?
Duck believe someone calling me out a survivor, which I didn't even mention a single thing about my role. If follow the logic lynch the lair, I don't know which one to pick day 2, the lair or the one who believe the lair for the sheep vote excuse

[Orpz]

Duck believe someone calling me out a survivor, which I didn't even mention a single thing about my role. If follow the logic lynch the lair, I don't know which one to pick day 2, the lair or the one who believe the lair for the sheep vote excuse

Interesting...While I disagree with Lynch All Liars, having someone project a specific role on you on Day 1 is quite weird.

[MiniZed]

Duck believe someone calling me out a survivor, which I didn't even mention a single thing about my role. If follow the logic lynch the lair, I don't know which one to pick day 2, the lair or the one who believe the lair for the sheep vote excuse

This is annoying. If you are referring to me, quote where I called you SURVIVOR.

[MiniZed]

Yuki did nothing wrong. Explain to me again why Eggy shouldn't be swinging from a rope at day's end?

Why is Yuki not at all suspicious to you.

Why is Eggy more suspicious?

[Yukitaka Oni]

about to shower and then catch up in my games before i start doing more homework!!

If anyone has questions fire away.
I fk my homework just to play this shitty game here

[Titus]

LMAO. The discredit there is real. Have you even looked at Yuki/Eggy?

Yup. I have. Yuki is town BC garbage push and Eggy reminds me of our last game.

Still whining about being obvscum.

#still reading.