S-FM 208: Black Flag Nightless

[deathworlds]

Arrrrgh, this be the first shanty of a simple, simple, forum mafia game. I be speakin' in my "best" pirate speak for this sea shanty.

There be some traitors aboard, these traitors ain't your mateys, and those scallywags want to steal your booty.

THEY BEST BE WALKIN' THE PLANK, AN' NO ONE RESTS UNTIL WE FIND THEM.

Pirates Aboard (living players):
1. Calix
2. DarknessB
3. Eggy
4. Iced_Monopoly
5. Mesk514
6. Never Unlucky
7. Sprunace
8. TheDarkestLight
9. Unknown1234
10. secondpassing

Pirates with Scurvy (reserves):
1. Kovath
2. MattZed

There are two types of pirates you scallywags (role list):
Goon
Goon
Goon
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen

Day 2 (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37551-S-FM-209-Black-Flag-Nightless?p=633303&viewfull=1#post633303)
Day 3 (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37551-S-FM-209-Black-Flag-Nightless?p=634496&viewfull=1#post634496)

Wes be needing more than half the crew to decide on a swashbuckler to walk the plank. But we will make someone walk anyways if we can't decide. (6 Or most votes by end of day)

One of you scallywags will be walking the plank when the sun is going down for 3 hours, 2 days from now (August 12, 4 PM, PDT (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to?iso=20160812T16&p0=234&msg=Day+1+End&font=serif))

[deathworlds]

Game has now begun, I was bored and tired of waiting.

[Iced_Monopoly]

secondpassing
Im going to be leaving in a few mins for atleast the next 4 hours, so this seems as good a place as any to begin.

[Calix]

TheDarkestLight

I see you :)

[TheDarkestLight]

Calix

Time to tunnel you mindlessly for no legitimate reason at all.

[Calix]

Calix

Time to tunnel you mindlessly for no legitimate reason at all.

You make it sound like you're just going through the motions.

Defend yourself, plox.

[TheDarkestLight]

TheDarkestLight

I see you :)

You see, I'm secretly John Cena, so you can't see me.

That means you are lying about seeing me, and are obv scum. GG pleb. Get good.

[DarknessB]

Spruance

Still feeling sick from that blow dart last game, Spruance. -_-

[Calix]

You see, I'm secretly John Cena, so you can't see me.

That means you are lying about seeing me, and are obv scum. GG pleb. Get good.

Fucking meme pleb.

Thoughts on the setup that you've obviously read?

[TheDarkestLight]

Fucking meme pleb.

Thoughts on the setup that you've obviously read?

Yeah, I determined optimal strategy for the town is to lynch two scum while avoiding losing four town.

Not much to say about it really. ^^

[Calix]

Yeah, I determined optimal strategy for the town is to lynch two scum while avoiding losing four town.

Not much to say about it really. ^^

Brilliant :p

Given scum does not control a night kill, POE is clearly the way to go. I haven't crunched the numbers properly but if you have 3-4 strong town-reads then you can just lynch outside of that and win.

So yeah, looks straightforward to me.

[TheDarkestLight]

Brilliant :p

Given scum does not control a night kill, POE is clearly the way to go. I haven't crunched the numbers properly but if you have 3-4 strong town-reads then you can just lynch outside of that and win.

So yeah, looks straightforward to me.

Just gonna play this like a normal all citizens vs all Mafioso game. Find scum reads, lynch them. Find town reads, don't lynch them. I don't really think finding an arbitrary number of town reads is particularly important.

[DarknessB]

Brilliant :p

Given scum does not control a night kill, POE is clearly the way to go. I haven't crunched the numbers properly but if you have 3-4 strong town-reads then you can just lynch outside of that and win.

So yeah, looks straightforward to me.

This is probably where our good friend ika would propose the much maligned "town bloc" idea, which is usually terrible and rarely works out in normal FM games. Given this setup with no night kill and PRs, it might actually be a good idea for once, however.

[TheDarkestLight]

This is probably where our good friend ika would propose the much maligned "town bloc" idea, which is usually terrible and rarely works out in normal FM games. Given this setup with no night kill and PRs, it might actually be a good idea for once, however.

Town blocs leave people too comfortable. Albeit I will admit it's not as bad this game as if a single scum is on it it won't kill our game since one scum can survive and we still win.

Honestly the win conditions seem terribly arbitrary to me and the person DW took the idea from must have been smoking some weird shit.

But I'm not really liking the idea of a townbloc anyways since that just results in us getting too comfortable with people.

[Calix]

From what I heard from MS/ ika, nightless games are more town-sided precisely because of town blocs that cannot be broken up.

I wouldn't recommend forcing one this early on - that rarely goes well. Just let the game play out and go from there.

[secondpassing]

Oh crap, thought game started in 35 minutes. I wanted to be first D:

[secondpassing]

Arrg.

[secondpassing]

Game has now begun, I was bored and tired of waiting.
That's why we're in Adventure Quest.

secondpassing
Im going to be leaving in a few mins for atleast the next 4 hours, so this seems as good a place as any to begin.
It's the best place, scrub.


TheDarkestLight

I see you :)

I have no time for games. Bweeenh.

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140303192458/hearthstone/images/3/3c/Sylvanas.gif

Calix

Time to tunnel you mindlessly for no legitimate reason at all.


You make it sound like you're just going through the motions.

Defend yourself, plox.

Calix
Because she spelled "please" wrong.

[secondpassing]

Just realized I didn't actually finish my post lol. Also RIP Kovath.

Mesk514 Probably a better vote.

[Mesk514]

Just realized I didn't actually finish my post lol. Also RIP Kovath.

Mesk514 Probably a better vote.

lollolololololololol
*these are my thoughts*
*votes someone who hasn't spoken yet*

someones salty

[secondpassing]

lollolololololololol
*these are my thoughts*
*votes someone who hasn't spoken yet*

someones salty

Those thoughts basically don't even count. Anyway, I was going to ask people who they were more inclined to lynch this game, then I realized that people can just vote... and that I was already voting someone.

So. How was your day?

[Calix]

Those thoughts basically don't even count. Anyway, I was going to ask people who they were more inclined to lynch this game, then I realized that people can just vote... and that I was already voting someone.

So. How was your day?

Question. Why make a post with your thoughts if you think they 'basically don't even count'?

Rest of this post doesn't make sense.

[Mesk514]

Those thoughts basically don't even count. Anyway, I was going to ask people who they were more inclined to lynch this game, then I realized that people can just vote... and that I was already voting someone.

So. How was your day?

my day is fine. how's yours?
so basically your thoughts don't count but you vote me cause?

[DarknessB]

Just realized I didn't actually finish my post lol. Also RIP Kovath.

Mesk514 Probably a better vote.

This comment suggests that your vote is for more than just RVS purposes. Care to explain what you're thinking?

[DarknessB]

lollolololololololol
*these are my thoughts*
*votes someone who hasn't spoken yet*

someones salty

Maybe I'm missing the reference (meta?) but why would Secondpassing by salty toward you?

[Eggy]

Never Unlucky he is always unlucky his name itself is a lie how can me trust him? Scum confirmed

[DarknessB]

my day is fine. how's yours?
so basically your thoughts don't count but you vote me cause?

SP's RVS voting doesn't catch me funny in and of itself. What does catch me funny is what I flagged above -- that he first voted Calix (seemingly RVS) and then changed his vote to you, which I would have regarded as RVS as well, except his weird comment of "probably a better vote". I would like to hear more from SP about what he meant there exactly.

Also, the "thoughts don't count" comment is silly and he has to know it -- anything you say or do in an FM game is fair to examine and there doesn't seem to be much point in discounting one's own actions.

[Never Unlucky]

Those thoughts basically don't even count.

Starts off the Politico-scum!NU way -- makes a mistake and goes back on it marginalizing and discrediting his own post.


Anyway, I was going to ask people who they were more inclined to lynch this game, then I realized that people can just vote... and that I was already voting someone.

So. How was your day?

Flagging this post for further consideration -- asking people who they'd like to see lynched before any reads has been made implies that you want to lynch players based on RNG/personal stuff rather than reads. This is odd at best and scummy at worse. I don't like it.

[Mesk514]

Maybe I'm missing the reference (meta?) but why would Secondpassing by salty toward you?

last game i played with secondpassing, he seemed to feel some type of way that he subbed in and was immediately lynched...

[secondpassing]

Awesome, I managed to stir up conversation.


Question. Why make a post with your thoughts if you think they 'basically don't even count'?

Rest of this post doesn't make sense.

I was bored and impatient. It does things to people. Also, I feel the need to post, but that is partly because I feel responsible to play this game and that it is day one. Day one needs to be moved otherwise people sit and wait and die.


This comment suggests that your vote is for more than just RVS purposes. Care to explain what you're thinking?

I have a really hard time making random votes. My first vote on Calix was due to me liking TDL's first posts and that people should be training early on.
I moved my vote to Mesk514 because I'm salty.


Never Unlucky he is always unlucky his name itself is a lie how can me trust him? Scum confirmed

This guy is salty too :D

[secondpassing]

last game i played with secondpassing, he seemed to feel some type of way that he subbed in and was immediately lynched...

Correction: Last two games I've played with secondpassing, I failed to read his posts and decided to vote him anyway.

[Never Unlucky]

Never Unlucky he is always unlucky his name itself is a lie how can me trust him? Scum confirmed

He's right. How can 'me' trust him?
my day is fine. how's yours?
so basically your thoughts don't count but you vote me cause?

This is exactly the typical mod scum pre-defense. Early scum-read on Mesk.

[secondpassing]

Starts off the Politico-scum!NU way -- makes a mistake and goes back on it marginalizing and discrediting his own post.
I'm not NU. Oh wait, you're NU. We have similar post styles; however, I make things go. You sit back.

Flagging this post for further consideration -- asking people who they'd like to see lynched before any reads has been made implies that you want to lynch players based on RNG/personal stuff rather than reads. This is odd at best and scummy at worse. I don't like it.

I take it you're not going to participate in RVS? What is your alternative plan?
If you're going to criticize something, you should propose an alternative (strategy in this case).

[DarknessB]

It's always brutal quoting posts that quote other posts, but I'll give it a shot below in teal:

Awesome, I managed to stir up conversation.

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/images/styles/DarkCore/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Calix http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/images/styles/DarkCore/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=632739#post632739)

Question. Why make a post with your thoughts if you think they 'basically don't even count'?

Rest of this post doesn't make sense.



I was bored and impatient. It does things to people. Also, I feel the need to post, but that is partly because I feel responsible to play this game and that it is day one. Day one needs to be moved otherwise people sit and wait and die.

Yes, I think we would all agree that Day 1 takes a little while to get going and an odd post like yours often gets people's attention. That having been said, I still don't agree with you that "it doesn't count". It just feels a little bit like an excuse if some people scumread you for it. As in "I told you that post didn't count so therefore I'm excused for it". I just don't agree that anything you say in a game should be discounted -- if you say it, it's fair game.

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/images/styles/DarkCore/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by DarknessB http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/images/styles/DarkCore/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=632741#post632741)
This comment suggests that your vote is for more than just RVS purposes. Care to explain what you're thinking?



I have a really hard time making random votes. My first vote on Calix was due to me liking TDL's first posts and that people should be training early on.
I moved my vote to Mesk514 because I'm salty.

Okay, this is getting interesting. You seem to be suggesting that your initial vote on Calix was not in fact RVS, but motivated by your finding TDL's initial posts to be more compelling than hers. Can you explain further why you felt that way? Also, were you limiting your vote to players who were active in the game by that point? Just doesn't seem to be very RVS-like to me, though I might be overanalyzing a little bit. Understood on the saltiness point re: your second vote -- I hadn't followed the games where you and Mesk had played.

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/images/styles/DarkCore/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Eggy http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/images/styles/DarkCore/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=632743#post632743)
-vote Never Unlucky
he is always unlucky his name itself is a lie how can me trust him? Scum confirmed



This guy is salty too :D

[Never Unlucky]

Awesome, I managed to stir up conversation.

I have a very hard time believing that 'stirring up conversation' was your intent when you made your first posts. Your first post was a bunch of quotes, a RVS vote and not-so-dank memes. How does it 'stir up conversation'?


I was bored and impatient. It does things to people. Also, I feel the need to post, but that is partly because I feel responsible to play this game and that it is day one. Day one needs to be moved otherwise people sit and wait and die.

I don't like that you feel the 'need to post' -- A town would feel the need to contribute to scumhunting even if that's made in only two posts. Quantity doesn't matter. You drawing attention to 'posting' specifically implies that you want to appear active but not necessarily contribute.


I have a really hard time making random votes. My first vote on Calix was due to me liking TDL's first posts and that people should be training early on.
I moved my vote to Mesk514 because I'm salty.

You have a hard time making random votes? That makes no sense. A random vote is random, any vote will do. How do you have a hard time randoming someone?

What did you like of TDL's posts?


This guy is salty too :D

Are you using one's salt to justify yours?

SP pings me weird so far. Not liking her posts.

Calix I changed my formatting :3

[Never Unlucky]

I'm not NU. Oh wait, you're NU. We have similar post styles; however, I make things go. You sit back.

We do not have similar posting styles: I refrain from making jokes if they're going to be shit.

What things have you made go?

How am I sitting back?


I take it you're not going to participate in RVS? What is your alternative plan?
If you're going to criticize something, you should propose an alternative (strategy in this case).

You're making it as RVS was going to make town win the game -- RVS is just a way to start a game. Votes don't mean much, they're just meant to create conversation to then gather reads. Reads are how town wins the game.

[secondpassing]

DarknessB

I can totally make it easier on you if you decide to quote train. I've learned that I can just stick all the raw text into a spoiler, have you remove the spoiler tag, and then quote from there.



Yes, I think we would all agree that Day 1 takes a little while to get going and an odd post like yours often gets people's attention. That having been said, I still don't agree with you that "it doesn't count". It just feels a little bit like an excuse if some people scumread you for it. As in "I told you that post didn't count so therefore I'm excused for it". I just don't agree that anything you say in a game should be discounted -- if you say it, it's fair game.

It's fair game. Whatever. I find the first posts rather useless this match. The most important thing is that TDL answered Calix rather nicely (so I give him a point for that) and that he voted Calix. As they say, sheep your townreads and make a train (why I voted Calix instead of TDL).



Okay, this is getting interesting. You seem to be suggesting that your initial vote on Calix was not in fact RVS, but motivated by your finding TDL's initial posts to be more compelling than hers. Can you explain further why you felt that way? Also, were you limiting your vote to players who were active in the game by that point? Just doesn't seem to be very RVS-like to me, though I might be overanalyzing a little bit. Understood on the saltiness point re: your second vote -- I hadn't followed the games where you and Mesk had played.

I feel like explaining it further is counterproductive. Your thoughts on their interaction?
I was limiting my vote to players who were being voted at that point. (only votes were on me, Spruance, Calix, and TDL)


[SPOILER=My post, that quotes yours DarknessB

I can totally make it easier on you if you decide to quote train. I've learned that I can just stick all the raw text into a spoiler, have you remove the spoiler tag, and then quote from there.



Yes, I think we would all agree that Day 1 takes a little while to get going and an odd post like yours often gets people's attention. That having been said, I still don't agree with you that "it doesn't count". It just feels a little bit like an excuse if some people scumread you for it. As in "I told you that post didn't count so therefore I'm excused for it". I just don't agree that anything you say in a game should be discounted -- if you say it, it's fair game.

It's fair game. Whatever. I find the first posts rather useless this match. The most important thing is that TDL answered Calix rather nicely (so I give him a point for that) and that he voted Calix. As they say, sheep your townreads and make a train (why I voted Calix instead of TDL).



Okay, this is getting interesting. You seem to be suggesting that your initial vote on Calix was not in fact RVS, but motivated by your finding TDL's initial posts to be more compelling than hers. Can you explain further why you felt that way? Also, were you limiting your vote to players who were active in the game by that point? Just doesn't seem to be very RVS-like to me, though I might be overanalyzing a little bit. Understood on the saltiness point re: your second vote -- I hadn't followed the games where you and Mesk had played.

I feel like explaining it further is counterproductive. Your thoughts on their interaction?
I was limiting my vote to players who were being voted at that point. (only votes were on me, Spruance, Calix, and TDL)[/SPOILER]

[Never Unlucky]

It's fair game. Whatever. I find the first posts rather useless this match. The most important thing is that TDL answered Calix rather nicely (so I give him a point for that) and that he voted Calix. As they say, sheep your townreads and make a train (why I voted Calix instead of TDL).

No posts are useless. One of the Mafia Bible golden rules.

Answering nicely makes one a town-read for you? By following your logic, would scum answer impolitely, and that's all sorts of false -- Reaction is mostly based on personality. An asshole will always respond in a dicky manner no matter what his faction is, an Eggy will always answer with flawed logic no matter what his faction is. You can't read someone solely on this aspect.



I feel like explaining it further is counterproductive. Your thoughts on their interaction?
I was limiting my vote to players who were being voted at that point. (only votes were on me, Spruance, Calix, and TDL)

Weren't you saying that you didn't want the town to sit back? In that sense, you should be voting those who are inactive, no?

Edit: With host's permission, fixed a broken Quote.

[DarknessB]

@DarknessB (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php?u=11837)

I can totally make it easier on you if you decide to quote train. I've learned that I can just stick all the raw text into a spoiler, have you remove the spoiler tag, and then quote from there.

I'm not following what you mean exactly so I'll stick to my tortured method of responding to quote threads.

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/images/styles/DarkCore/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by DarknessB http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/images/styles/DarkCore/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=632751#post632751)

Yes, I think we would all agree that Day 1 takes a little while to get going and an odd post like yours often gets people's attention. That having been said, I still don't agree with you that "it doesn't count". It just feels a little bit like an excuse if some people scumread you for it. As in "I told you that post didn't count so therefore I'm excused for it". I just don't agree that anything you say in a game should be discounted -- if you say it, it's fair game.

It's fair game. Whatever. I find the first posts rather useless this match. The most important thing is that TDL answered Calix rather nicely (so I give him a point for that) and that he voted Calix. As they say, sheep your townreads and make a train (why I voted Calix instead of TDL).

To be fair, the TDL / Calix interaction actually occurred in the opposite order than you mention above. TDL voted Calix, then started to respond to her "nicely", as you characterize it when the two got into setup spec and the like. I don't understand why you give him a point for that though -- yes, civility is a good thing, in terms of our collective sanity / avoiding ragefests, but I don't think it's AI in any way. Also, it strikes me very odd that you Townread someone enough to sheep them based on their opening 3-4 posts? Almost makes me think you are putting a ton of thought into seemingly "random" actions for some reason. Just catches me funny.

Okay, this is getting interesting. You seem to be suggesting that your initial vote on Calix was not in fact RVS, but motivated by your finding TDL's initial posts to be more compelling than hers. Can you explain further why you felt that way? Also, were you limiting your vote to players who were active in the game by that point? Just doesn't seem to be very RVS-like to me, though I might be overanalyzing a little bit. Understood on the saltiness point re: your second vote -- I hadn't followed the games where you and Mesk had played.

I feel like explaining it further is counterproductive. Your thoughts on their interaction?

Honestly, I found the early TDL / Calix interaction to be the definition of NAI. Both are experienced players and both were talking about basic setup spec. TDL went with a countervote on Calix, but there hasn't been any actual push so I don't read anything into it.

I was limiting my vote to players who were being voted at that point. (only votes were on me, Spruance, Calix, and TDL)

Is there a reason for this? Seems odd to me to limit an RVS vote (or maybe not an RVS vote?) to only the pool of people who already had votes on them.

[secondpassing]

I have a very hard time believing that 'stirring up conversation' was your intent when you made your first posts. Your first post was a bunch of quotes, a RVS vote and not-so-dank memes. How does it 'stir up conversation'?

Look, instead of focusing on how bad my meme usage is, can you focus on what has actually happened? This thread revolves around me right now, so it definitely stirred up conversation.



I don't like that you feel the 'need to post' -- A town would feel the need to contribute to scumhunting even if that's made in only two posts. Quantity doesn't matter. You drawing attention to 'posting' specifically implies that you want to appear active but not necessarily contribute.

If you feel like people don't 'need to post', do you feel that people 'don't need to post'?


You have a hard time making random votes? That makes no sense. A random vote is random, any vote will do. How do you have a hard time randoming someone?

What did you like of TDL's posts?

Fact is, I haven't random voted anyone yet. It appears you have a hard time random voting someone too. Where's your vote?



SP pings me weird so far. Not liking her posts.

Pings you weird or pings you scum? Are you going to just attack my posts?



We do not have similar posting styles: I refrain from making jokes if they're going to be shit.

What things have you made go?

How am I sitting back?

Okay, I stand corrected. This comment was based off of games I read of you, not with you.

I made conversation happen.
You sit back by not solidly offering an opinion.


You're making it as RVS was going to make town win the game -- RVS is just a way to start a game. Votes don't mean much, they're just meant to create conversation to then gather reads. Reads are how town wins the game.
Please stop insinuating that I don't read people.


I have a very hard time believing that 'stirring up conversation' was your intent when you made your first posts. Your first post was a bunch of quotes, a RVS vote and not-so-dank memes. How does it 'stir up conversation'?

Look, instead of focusing on how bad my meme usage is, can you focus on what has actually happened? This thread revolves around me right now, so it definitely stirred up conversation.



I don't like that you feel the 'need to post' -- A town would feel the need to contribute to scumhunting even if that's made in only two posts. Quantity doesn't matter. You drawing attention to 'posting' specifically implies that you want to appear active but not necessarily contribute.

If you feel like people don't 'need to post', do you feel that people 'don't need to post'?



You have a hard time making random votes? That makes no sense. A random vote is random, any vote will do. How do you have a hard time randoming someone?

What did you like of TDL's posts?

Fact is, I haven't random voted anyone yet. It appears you have a hard time random voting someone too. Where's your vote?



SP pings me weird so far. Not liking her posts.

Pings you weird or pings you scum? Are you going to just attack my posts?



We do not have similar posting styles: I refrain from making jokes if they're going to be shit.

What things have you made go?

How am I sitting back?

Okay, I stand corrected. This comment was based off of games I read of you, not with you.

I made conversation happen.
You sit back by not solidly offering an opinion.


You're making it as RVS was going to make town win the game -- RVS is just a way to start a game. Votes don't mean much, they're just meant to create conversation to then gather reads. Reads are how town wins the game.
Please stop insinuating that I don't read people.

[secondpassing]

Screw Formatting.

[secondpassing]

To be fair, the TDL / Calix interaction actually occurred in the opposite order than you mention above. TDL voted Calix, then started to respond to her "nicely", as you characterize it when the two got into setup spec and the like. I don't understand why you give him a point for that though -- yes, civility is a good thing, in terms of our collective sanity / avoiding ragefests, but I don't think it's AI in any way. Also, it strikes me very odd that you Townread someone enough to sheep them based on their opening 3-4 posts? Almost makes me think you are putting a ton of thought into seemingly "random" actions for some reason. Just catches me funny.

I make the best of the situation I have. (Or I try to.) I'll find the AI post and post it separately. As for sheeping, I've picked up stuff from MS's RVS stage. They actively try to start trains-- currently not trying to do that right now.


Okay, I simplified our discussion to a length that is readable.

[secondpassing]

Yeah, I determined optimal strategy for the town is to lynch two scum while avoiding losing four town.

Not much to say about it really. ^^

I like this post. And I gave TDL a +1 for it. I think it's alignment indicative. Note the two Shift + 66. Takes effort to seem happy. Probably is happy. Probably is happy he rolled town.

[Never Unlucky]

Look, instead of focusing on how bad my meme usage is, can you focus on what has actually happened? This thread revolves around me right now, so it definitely stirred up conversation.

Saying I am focused on your shitty memes is a very big mischaracterization, I've made one on-the-side comment on it in a ~5 paragraphs post -- Scums tend to mischaracterize situations more than town do.

Saying I am not focusing on what's happening is also a mischaracterization. You are unnecessarily attempting to discredit me and responding very passively/aggressively to deflect from the points I've made on your case.

As I said, I doubt that your goal was not to stir up conversation. Your posts didn't feel like they were encouraging conversation at all. They were just "I have posted" posts in my eyes.
If you want to see what posts encouraging convos look like, read DB's posts and my posts.

If you feel like people don't 'need to post', do you feel that people 'don't need to post'?




Fact is, I haven't random voted anyone yet. It appears you have a hard time random voting someone too. Where's your vote?


You saying that those votes were thought out and not random is scary.

It doesn't mean I have a hard time making one, lol. You're deflecting again.



Pings you weird or pings you scum? Are you going to just attack my posts?

The previous pinged me weird (Not town, but not scum), but THIS post pings me scum. You are deflecting and reacting in a scummy manner with the passive/aggressive post.

Oh, I am ATTACKING your posts? I am not analyzing them nor deciphering them, I am attacking them?


Okay, I stand corrected. This comment was based off of games I read of you, not with you.

I made conversation happen.
You sit back by not solidly offering an opinion.

Funny that the only point you concede is something that is completely irrelevant to the game.

You've made it clear that your 'goal' is to create conversation. You don't realize that that is not how a game's won.

My thoughts on the player (irrelevant to the game) -- You're Eggy 2.0, no joke. The same typing style without the grammir mystaiks and the lol hahahah u suck.


Please stop insinuating that I don't read people.

What are your reads in that case? I expect better reasons than 'responds nicely'.

[Never Unlucky]

I like this post. And I gave TDL a +1 for it. I think it's alignment indicative. Note the two Shift + 66. Takes effort to seem happy. Probably is happy. Probably is happy he rolled town.

You think it's AI. Care to explain?

Effort =/= Town

The post you quoted is TDL stating the obvious. I don't see how one could give a read based on this post.

[Never Unlucky]

DarknessB What are your thoughts on the interaction between SP and me?

[secondpassing]

Answering nicely makes one a town-read for you? By following your logic, would scum answer impolitely, and that's all sorts of false -- Reaction is mostly based on personality. An asshole will always respond in a dicky manner no matter what his faction is, an Eggy will always answer with flawed logic no matter what his faction is. You can't read someone solely on this aspect.

Never Unlucky In case anyone hasn't guessed, this vote is not random.



I feel like explaining it further is counterproductive (I did anyway). Your thoughts on their interaction?
I was limiting my vote to players who were being voted at that point. (only votes were on me, Spruance, Calix, and TDL)

Weren't you saying that you didn't want the town to sit back? In that sense, you should be voting those who are inactive, no?

TDL: "Voting a lurker doesn't make them turn on their computer and post."

[Never Unlucky]

Never Unlucky In case anyone hasn't guessed, this vote is not random.

TDL: "Voting a lurker doesn't make them turn on their computer and post."

Except this ^ obvious reply, you've yet to refute any of the points I made about you. You've instead deflected. Not only that, but you haven't made ANY points on me to justify your vote -- This is a OMGUS vote.

Also, I notice you're giving TDL a lot of credit this game...

[Never Unlucky]

Also, I notice you're giving TDL a lot of credit this game...

That's is exactly what I had done in Politico with Kovath, my scum buddy. I had quoted posts he had made on the setup page and buddied with him early on.

[Never Unlucky]

That's is exactly what I had done in Politico with Kovath, my scum buddy. I had quoted posts he had made on the setup page and buddied with him early on.

That is*

secondpassing

It's not an OMGUS vote though it may look like one. I've scum-read him for a while like my other posts suggest.

[secondpassing]

Except this ^ obvious reply, you've yet to refute any of the points I made about you. You've instead deflected. Not only that, but you haven't made ANY points on me to justify your vote -- This is a OMGUS vote.

Also, I notice you're giving TDL a lot of credit this game...

See below.

I like this post. And I gave TDL a +1 for it. I think it's alignment indicative. Note the two Shift + 66. Takes effort to seem happy. Probably is happy. Probably is happy he rolled town.
You think it's AI. Care to explain?


Effort =/= Town

The post you quoted is TDL stating the obvious. I don't see how one could give a read based on this post.

Effort = Town, especially for noobs (like me and you). Also, Lurk = Scum. Yet to be proven wrong.
Just because you couldn't get a read, doesn't mean you can't. From what TDL has posted, at this point he is probably town.

[Never Unlucky]

See below.
You refuted nothing in the 'below' part. I was referring to the 10+ points I've made about you that are left unanswered.
[QUOTE]Effort = Town, especially for noobs (like me and you). Also, Lurk = Scum. Yet to be proven wrong.

Do I even need to comment on this? Wrong from A to Z.

I am not a noob anymore. Don't categorize me as such (unless you're Calix/Paladin/DB).


Just because you couldn't get a read, doesn't mean you can't. From what TDL has posted, at this point he is probably town.

Logic is absent in this sentence.

[DarknessB]

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/images/styles/DarkCore/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by DarknessB http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/images/styles/DarkCore/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=632756#post632756)

To be fair, the TDL / Calix interaction actually occurred in the opposite order than you mention above. TDL voted Calix, then started to respond to her "nicely", as you characterize it when the two got into setup spec and the like. I don't understand why you give him a point for that though -- yes, civility is a good thing, in terms of our collective sanity / avoiding ragefests, but I don't think it's AI in any way. Also, it strikes me very odd that you Townread someone enough to sheep them based on their opening 3-4 posts? Almost makes me think you are putting a ton of thought into seemingly "random" actions for some reason. Just catches me funny.


I make the best of the situation I have. (Or I try to.) I'll find the AI post and post it separately. As for sheeping, I've picked up stuff from MS's RVS stage. They actively try to start trains-- currently not trying to do that right now.

Actively trying to start trains can be a good thing, but why do so at the RVS stage (in terms of limiting your votes to those who already had votes)?

Okay, I simplified our discussion to a length that is readable.

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/images/styles/DarkCore/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by TheDarkestLight http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/images/styles/DarkCore/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=632725#post632725)
Yeah, I determined optimal strategy for the town is to lynch two scum while avoiding losing four town.

Not much to say about it really. ^^


I like this post. And I gave TDL a +1 for it. I think it's alignment indicative. Note the two Shift + 66. Takes effort to seem happy. Probably is happy. Probably is happy he rolled town.

Personally, I don't find this explanation persuasive. The context was TDL sarcastically replying to Calix's question about his strategy for the game. His answer just repeats the Town win condition -- i.e. lynch two scum before losing four Town. As for your comments about him seeming happy, I'm not sure when seeming happy / unhappy would be AI? The comment about "two Shift + 66" seems glib so I'll give you a pass for that, but I seriously hope you're not Townreading someone based on their demeanor during the first 3-4 posts of the game...

[DarknessB]

@DarknessB (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php?u=11837) What are your thoughts on the interaction between SP and me?

It's interesting that we're making a lot of the same points in response to SP's posts in our respective responses to him. I note that your tone toward him seem somewhat accusatory, but I feel like you're making good points overall. One decent point SP has landed on you is your apparent unwillingness to place a vote (RVS or otherwise), which sticks out from the other players who have participated so far. Why is that?

[secondpassing]

Refuted nothing? Nothing? From what I can see, I've "refuted" everything.
Most of your points are ALREADY answered. For example, reread #40 and #44. You ask questions that are either out-of-context or ALREADY answered.

I called you a noob because you are one. I'm a noob. Contrast this with a player like BananaCucho. She played 40+ games, we've played like 7.

You say I am "deflecting", I'll tell you what I'm doing. I'm like, "What the , why the heck are you asking me that question?"

Example of how I think of our conversation:
"Where's dad?"
"Why don't you turn you head?"


"What are you cooking?"
"What did I cook yesterday?"

"What time is it?"
"Is the time displayed for you on the computer in front of your face?"

"Did you claim doctor?"
"Did you read the thread?"

[DarknessB]

Answering nicely makes one a town-read for you? By following your logic, would scum answer impolitely, and that's all sorts of false -- Reaction is mostly based on personality. An asshole will always respond in a dicky manner no matter what his faction is, an Eggy will always answer with flawed logic no matter what his faction is. You can't read someone solely on this aspect.
-vote Never Unlucky


In case anyone hasn't guessed, this vote is not random.

Can you please explain why you're voting Never Unlucky? By your own admission, it's not an RVS vote, but objectively speaking, it seems motivated by him pushing you as opposed to you scumreading him (or at the very least, if you do, it would help if you could explain why in more detail).

I feel like explaining it further is counterproductive (I did anyway). Your thoughts on their interaction?
I was limiting my vote to players who were being voted at that point. (only votes were on me, Spruance, Calix, and TDL)



Weren't you saying that you didn't want the town to sit back? In that sense, you should be voting those who are inactive, no?




TDL: "Voting a lurker doesn't make them turn on their computer and post."

Agreed for the most part. We're very early in the game so I will hold off on the "don't let lurkers lurk" refrain of mine, but you can be assured it's coming if we still haven't heard from certain people tomorrow (real life time, not game time).

[DarknessB]

That is*

secondpassing

It's not an OMGUS vote though it may look like one. I've scum-read him for a while like my other posts suggest.

Agreed that it's not an OMGUS vote per se, but you have to admit that the timing looks suspicious. Almost seems like you needed SP to vote you before you would take a stand and vote him.

[secondpassing]

I make the best of the situation I have. (Or I try to.) I'll find the AI post and post it separately. As for sheeping, I've picked up stuff from MS's RVS stage. They actively try to start trains-- currently not trying to do that right now.

Actively trying to start trains can be a good thing, but why do so at the RVS stage (in terms of limiting your votes to those who already had votes)?

First, because the ones who already had votes on them are closer to being a train. RVS is built to promote discussion and reads, so do trains. I went the train path.
Second, Trains are nice. People react differently under pressure, which is why you need to train them. Actively having trains also means that town is awake and diligent.


http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/images/styles/DarkCore/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by TheDarkestLight http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/images/styles/DarkCore/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=632725#post632725)
Yeah, I determined optimal strategy for the town is to lynch two scum while avoiding losing four town. Not much to say about it really. ^^


Personally, I don't find this explanation persuasive. The context was TDL sarcastically replying to Calix's question about his strategy for the game. His answer just repeats the Town win condition -- i.e. lynch two scum before losing four Town. As for your comments about him seeming happy, I'm not sure when seeming happy / unhappy would be AI? The comment about "two Shift + 66" seems glib so I'll give you a pass for that, but I seriously hope you're not Townreading someone based on their demeanor during the first 3-4 posts of the game...

Hence why I didn't try to persuade anyone with it. And to clarify, I'm townreading TDL for the posts he has posted. You probably have him at "null".
Also, I think that happiness is AI. Let's not get into it.

[secondpassing]

I'm voting Never Unlucky because
1. Too focused on how "illogical" I am = not scumhunting, more of attacking my arguments
2. Refuses to answer his own questions I feel he has been hiding this because, hey, the best attack is the best defense.

The first point is the strongest.

[secondpassing]

I'm going to attempt to refrain from posting for a while so Iced_Monopoly can catch up (it seems he is reading the thread).
DarknessB I question your vote on Spruance, because I'd like to see your vote on Never Unlucky, or me, but preferably Never Unlucky. Let's get these trains moving.

[Mesk514]

I'm going to attempt to refrain from posting for a while so Iced_Monopoly can catch up (it seems he is reading the thread).
DarknessB I question your vote on Spruance, because I'd like to see your vote on Never Unlucky, or me, but preferably Never Unlucky. Let's get these trains moving.

"i question your vote because it's not the same as mine"

i'm sorry but, whaaaat? lol

i'm reading from where i left off but what the fuck second passing.

[Never Unlucky]

It's interesting that we're making a lot of the same points in response to SP's posts in our respective responses to him. I note that your tone toward him seem somewhat accusatory, but I feel like you're making good points overall. One decent point SP has landed on you is your apparent unwillingness to place a vote (RVS or otherwise), which sticks out from the other players who have participated so far. Why is that?

I've placed my vote.


Refuted nothing? Nothing? From what I can see, I've "refuted" everything.
Most of your points are ALREADY answered. For example, reread #40 and #44. You ask questions that are either out-of-context or ALREADY answered.

You're answering with questions all the time, lol. It's deflecting, not answering.

You didn't explain how I was ATTACKING your posts. You didn't give reads. You didn't reply to the mischaracterization. You didn't make ANY points on my case. You didn’t explain how your first few posts would stir up conversation (The ''well it worked, didn’t it’’ argument is a bad one. There’s no way you were trying to appear scummy to have others comment on you.). You didn’t explain how TDL’s post was AI…
You answered jack shit. Get to work.


I called you a noob because you are one. I'm a noob. Contrast this with a player like BananaCucho. She played 40+ games, we've played like 7.

This is my 4th game, but I am not a noob. I know the game. I'm a better player than some players you'll tag as 'veteran'.

[Iced_Monopoly]

Im still in and out, reading in the breaks i get, my 4 hours plan is out the window, could be upto another 2.5 hours yet. Not a fan of db atm, will post on it when im home

[Never Unlucky]

First, because the ones who already had votes on them are closer to being a train. RVS is built to promote discussion and reads, so do trains. I went the train path.
Second, Trains are nice. People react differently under pressure, which is why you need to train them. Actively having trains also means that town is awake and diligent.

Putting someone at L-4 and call this act 'pressure' LUL


Hence why I didn't try to persuade anyone with it. And to clarify, I'm townreading TDL for the posts he has posted.

Yeah, no shit.


Also, I think that happiness is AI. Let's not get into it.
I've given my opinion on that.

I'm voting Never Unlucky because
1. Too focused on how "illogical" I am = not scumhunting, more of attacking my arguments
2. Refuses to answer his own questions I feel he has been hiding this because, hey, the best attack is the best defense.

The first point is the strongest.

Literally OMGUS. No scum-reading whatsoever. Calls me out for scum-hunting and does an OMGUS vote LUL

[Unknown1234]

Hi, sorry I'm late, most people know I'm fairly busy and I don't have a lot of time at this second to participate unless somebody is here now, just read, gonna go through and comment on stuff.

[Unknown1234]

This comment suggests that your vote is for more than just RVS purposes. Care to explain what you're thinking?

This makes me feel Darkness is town from early posts. I don't agree with how heavy the comment was pursued but this is the kind of stuff Darkness usually does. I guess I'm defending Secondpassing when I say this but you make the wording appear more scummy then it really is. Happens to me a lot from you as well.

[Unknown1234]

lollolololololololol
*these are my thoughts*
*votes someone who hasn't spoken yet*

someones salty

Reminds me of the beginner game. You have said few things and not once stated you are always town. I'm skeptical.

[Unknown1234]

Never Unlucky he is always unlucky his name itself is a lie how can me trust him? Scum confirmed

Eggy please don't bring the drama into this game and vote based on personal feelings. It clogs the thread and really destructs civilization.

[Unknown1234]

Starts off the Politico-scum!NU way -- makes a mistake and goes back on it marginalizing and discrediting his own post.



Flagging this post for further consideration -- asking people who they'd like to see lynched before any reads has been made implies that you want to lynch players based on RNG/personal stuff rather than reads. This is odd at best and scummy at worse. I don't like it.

Honestly, I don't like this post. You tried this strategy last game when you said "Unknown is playing the same way I did when I was scum in POLITICO" it's actually a poor attempt at scum-hunting by comparing others to yourself in argument with a scum-read.

[Unknown1234]

That's is exactly what I had done in Politico with Kovath, my scum buddy. I had quoted posts he had made on the setup page and buddied with him early on.

This is annoying. What makes you believe comparing people to you do anything in regards to scum-hunting?

[Unknown1234]

I feel like summarizing.

TDL-Town. (I know this isn't backed up a ton, but I'm not going to make up fake bullshit in my post so I'm going to wait until I can do my wall post stuff)

DarknessB- Town

Calix- Scum.

Never Unlucky- Town, but feels hostile towards everyone and uses odd scum-hunting techniques.

Mesk514- I like her the least.

Secondpassing- Under appreciated town who feels ignored.

Iced_Monopoly- Scum, feels like his regular "scum hiding under the radar" play.

Whoever the 10th person is I've missed so that is life. My read on Calix is mostly based on her lack of effort and the way she is playing. I will cover this later when I can. Darkness and TDL feel town, Mesk and Iced feel scum and Nu and Secondpassing don't feel terribly scummy to me, but I'm really in and out right now so I can sleep.

[Unknown1234]

Eggy is poor scum right now but the low contribution leaves me with nothing except that he's butt hurt.

[Iced_Monopoly]

Can't quote atm, but Unknown1234
Iced_Monopoly- Scum, feels like his regular "scum hiding under the radar" play

What games that I've been scum have i ever played under the radar? I'm also not avoiding anything, I'm in defence force interviews atm and we have to have our phones off and locked away when in certain parts of the building. Pls take your shitty analysis and misrep of my behavior elsewhere.

In other news, home within the hour. Posting then.

[secondpassing]

I've placed my vote.

You're answering with questions all the time, lol. It's deflecting, not answering.

You didn't explain how I was ATTACKING your posts. You didn't give reads. You didn't reply to the mischaracterization. You didn't make ANY points on my case. You didn’t explain how your first few posts would stir up conversation (The ''well it worked, didn’t it’’ argument is a bad one. There’s no way you were trying to appear scummy to have others comment on you.). You didn’t explain how TDL’s post was AI…
You answered jack shit. Get to work.

This is my 4th game, but I am not a noob. I know the game. I'm a better player than some players you'll tag as 'veteran'.

And your vote isn't RVS. I highly doubt it is random.

It's not deflecting, it's thinking, "What the heck is Never Unlucky thinking?"

I don't need to explain how you were attacking my posts, it's clear that you are. I have no idea what you expect of reads four hours into the game. I made points on your case and you are marginalizing them. I don't have to explain how my first few posts would stir up conversation (the fact that it DID work is proof of that. There is no reason even a scum player would try to appear scummy.) I explained how TDL's post was AI you just didn't read it.
I've answered Jack all the questions he has asked me that was worth answering. If you wish me to work further, I suggest that you pose some questions that can't be answered by me quoting my own posts.

Okay, it's your 4th game, in my mind, you are characterized as a noob. I know the game too. I highly doubt you are a better player than some players I will tag as 'veteran'.

There. I used your wording in hopes that your brain will understand what I have written. I've highlighted the next step if you wish to continue this conversation in a meaningful manner in orange.

[Eggy]

Eggy please don't bring the drama into this game and vote based on personal feelings. It clogs the thread and really destructs civilization.

It was a joke lol RVS I dont see what the problem is.

Anyway I am pretty confident after reading these few pages that NU is actually scum. He is tunneling second passing for absloutley nothing from what I can see. I find it scummy to cling to something posted on the first page and try to paint it as a slip. I also dont think second passing is scummy whats so ever so as far as im concerned this arguement is TVT or its scum vs town with NU being town.

I know its early in the game but Im pretty sure I kno who 2 of the scum are being NU and mesk.


Mesk has not posted anything that reminds me of her normal town play and since I was scum with her last game I know her scum play pretty well. She normally contributes more than she has so far. And like unknown said. She hasnt even said her "always town stuff" I feel like NU could have jumped on Second passing to defend mesk since he had just voted her.

I think we should lynch NU then Mesk=GG

Anyway im off ill be back on tmrw.

Reads:

Town:
Unknown
Secondpassing
DB
maybe calix

Scum:
Nu
Mesk

Null everyone else

Ill be back tmrw.

[Eggy]

Eggy is poor scum right now but the low contribution leaves me with nothing except that he's butt hurt.

How am I scum based off one post? And how am I butt hurt lol?? I cant just not like someone? Its ok though I forgive you for doubting my citizenship.

[Unknown1234]

Okay really, I can't believe I actually have to say this to get the game running better (or have everyone hate me) but seriously how do you people play with Grudges??

Eggy, stop the grudge on NU and play the game.

NU, stop being a doorknob and aggravating people with your cockiness.

Secondpassing, do not fight with everyone.

Mesk514, stop deflecting and throwing shade on everyone.

Spruance, whatever you're going to say just don't.

Like, I think it's a little annoying to see all of these petty fights and how people play the game according to them. Get over yourselves.

[Unknown1234]

How am I scum based off one post? And how am I butt hurt lol?? I cant just not like someone? Its ok though I forgive you for doubting my citizenship.

Eggy, "poor scum" means my read is a weaker read. Regardless, the one post you made is lacking in town motivation and seems unnecessary.

Not liking someone doesn't involve bringing hate into every game you play with them though.

[Eggy]

Okay really, I can't believe I actually have to say this to get the game running better (or have everyone hate me) but seriously how do you people play with Grudges??

Eggy, stop the grudge on NU and play the game.

NU, stop being a doorknob and aggravating people with your cockiness.

Secondpassing, do not fight with everyone.

Mesk514, stop deflecting and throwing shade on everyone.

Spruance, whatever you're going to say just don't.

Like, I think it's a little annoying to see all of these petty fights and how people play the game according to them. Get over yourselves.

I dont have a grudge with NU? I just think he is very good and this game I find him scummy for the reasons ive stated. From what i've seen day one slips are not really that much of a thing and
are usually used by scum to push a mislynch. Like what happened in instant mafia. I have no hard feelings towards NU I just dont like his playstyle. He has a way of discrediting things that strikes me as anti town

[Unknown1234]

I dont have a grudge with NU? I just think he is very good and this game I find him scummy for the reasons ive stated. From what i've seen day one slips are not really that much of a thing and
are usually used by scum to push a mislynch. Like what happened in instant mafia. I have no hard feelings towards NU I just dont like his playstyle. He has a way of discrediting things that strikes me as anti town

You JUST said you don't like him. Stop acting innocent about it so I don't need to parent.

[Eggy]

Eggy, "poor scum" means my read is a weaker read. Regardless, the one post you made is lacking in town motivation and seems unnecessary.

Not liking someone doesn't involve bringing hate into every game you play with them though.

It was RVS lol? What hate???? It was a joke I had no motivatiom behind it. And I always oppen with a random vote since I realized that was a thing lol. I really dont have a grudge against any player idk why you are saying that.

[Eggy]

You JUST said you don't like him. Stop acting innocent about it so I don't need to parent.

I dont like his play style? I wont let that cloud my judgement lol. If I thought he was town id have unvoted by now. I dont understand why I even have to explain this, more than anything I want to win lol.

[Eggy]

Anyway I gotta go foreal. Ill b back on tmrw. The main reason I find NU scummy is cus hes pushing something as if it was a slip when it doesnt like it was to me. I feel like town would have given up on that already. Also he seemed to have got involved in the argument to defend mesk maybe and she is probably my strongest scum read. They seemed to both ignore eachother.

[Unknown1234]

I dont like his play style? I wont let that cloud my judgement lol. If I thought he was town id have unvoted by now. I dont understand why I even have to explain this, more than anything I want to win lol.

Well, your argument isn't very strong so I hope you could see why I would believe you had a grudge against him. That and the "I don't like him"

Anyways moving on from that, you say his posts "discredit in a way that strikes me as anti-town" how is discrediting anti-town, or why is his different. I feel that NU has a hostile way of playing, which I don't agree with either, but I definitely think it's NAI. He did it in IC as well.

[Unknown1234]

Anyway I gotta go foreal. Ill b back on tmrw. The main reason I find NU scummy is cus hes pushing something as if it was a slip when it doesnt like it was to me. I feel like town would have given up on that already. Also he seemed to have got involved in the argument to defend mesk maybe and she is probably my strongest scum read. They seemed to both ignore eachother.

Slips are pushed by town. I've had pushed on me for slips, others too, don't think that's a string argument to use.

Where was this 'defense' of Mesk? Maybe I missed it.

Wouldn't you want to vote Mesk if she is your biggest scum-read and because you are connecting NU with Mesk.

[Iced_Monopoly]

First up, reading SP as town, especially after his earlier comment

Awesome, I managed to stir up conversation.

I was bored and impatient. It does things to people. Also, I feel the need to post, but that is partly because I feel responsible to play this game and that it is day one. Day one needs to be moved otherwise people sit and wait and die.

I have a really hard time making random votes. My first vote on Calix was due to me liking TDL's first posts and that people should be training early on.
I moved my vote to Mesk514 because I'm salty.

This guy is salty too :D
This was my thought process too, driving hard trains and analysis reactions and opinions to those trains, the more we have the chance to get in, the better. (until we have too many and it becomes meaningless..)

Im still semi scum reading DB, Im uncomfortable with the position hes taken in this game so far, which to me has been 'drawing attention of other players to each other, and perpetuating conversation (arguements/scum reads/and what have you) while maintaining a position far enough away to avoid the spotlight'. Potentially going out of his way to create TvT situations, if not more sinisterly creating TvS situations and subtly backing the scum/strawmaning the T (that cant be proven without a flip though, so its mostly just internal paranoia)

I too havnt liked unknowns posts, most of them have contributed nothing, just telling people to stop fighting (despite there being no legitimate fights or arguements, petty grudges is even a stretch). The posts he did make on reads have already been refuted (myself included), looks like he is just attempting to participate by throwing shade.

NUs interactions are interesting, based on my read of DB, that either puts him as T or S (obviously) based on the scenarios I considered earlier, Im more inclined to roll with T though

Mesk has done shit all, I mean she hasnt even spammed the fuck out of being town yet, which probably shouldve happened by now. Thats not a real point, but il wait to see more of mesk before I make any actual decisions, for now id be leaning slight scum but mostly unaligned.

eggy is eggy, its going to be very easier to determine if hes scum or not based on how this game progresses. If he is scum, I dont think we'll learn much on a flip, as even his teammates are likely to chuck him under the bus. Might be best to leave till later if he starts to show signs of his scum play and we need a guaranteed lynch.

I think that just leaves TDL and Calix, which ive no opinion on as of yet (as theyve done nothing AI).

I think best course of action D1 is to lynch a player that has had interactions with the most number of people, and been at the heart of most discussions. This gives us the most information to work with moving into D2. The consequence is of course that we're down 1 active player, but im willing to gamble on information > chance of lurkers. Lurkers can have their asses lynched anyways.

[Calix]

Jesus Christ, this formatting is cancerous. Is it really that hard to use the
function or at least separate your posts using colours or something?

[QUOTE=secondpassing;632747]Awesome, I managed to stir up conversation.

I find this hard to believe. Your early posts just look like you were wanting to post first more than anything else and I fail to see how your posts would have resulted in anything productive occurring.

However, I do like the points you make about trying to pressure players early on with trains, although that falls under theory spec so not a strong point.

If you openly admit that your Mesk vote was because of salt, why didn't you change it after admitting the fact? (as the vote would have become useless in terms of pressuring players)

NU makes some strong points against SP. Town leaning.

This is meta, but Mesk is really subdued this game and unlike her OW play (where she struggled to keep up with the high post volume) I see no reason for that to be the case. Slight scum lean.


It's fair game. Whatever. I find the first posts rather useless this match. The most important thing is that TDL answered Calix rather nicely (so I give him a point for that) and that he voted Calix. As they say, sheep your townreads and make a train (why I voted Calix instead of TDL).

I like this post. And I gave TDL a +1 for it. I think it's alignment indicative. Note the two Shift + 66. Takes effort to seem happy. Probably is happy. Probably is happy he rolled town.

You town-read TDL based on a RVS vote, being happy (which you should go into more depth with as I don't follow how that's AI) and some setup spec? Those are NAI and the fact that you are comfortable enough with your town-read based on that to follow him (not just because you want to pressure players but because you are sheeping a town-read from the start of the game) rubs me the wrong way. Scum have a far easier time confirming town as they are informed on everyone's alignment and thus overstate their level of confidence in a read that is at odds with the reasoning given.

tl;dr: This town-read is far stronger than warranted.

secondpassing


Agreed that it's not an OMGUS vote per se, but you have to admit that the timing looks suspicious. Almost seems like you needed SP to vote you before you would take a stand and vote him.

Not a fan of this. You insinuate that voting someone who voted you first is scummy with NU, but you don't actually stick yourself down in saying "NU is suspicious because of this" instead relying on inferences.

It also ignores context. Voting someone just because they voted for you = suspicious. Voting someone who you stated a scum-read on and who voted you first = NAI.


I'm voting Never Unlucky because
1. Too focused on how "illogical" I am = not scumhunting, more of attacking my arguments
2. Refuses to answer his own questions I feel he has been hiding this because, hey, the best attack is the best defense.

The first point is the strongest.

1. How is 'attacking your arguments' a scum tell? Unless you think that he is trying to paint you as scum, this isn't scummy.
2. Which questions do you feel he is trying to avoid and how would evading said questions help, exactly?


Honestly, I don't like this post. You tried this strategy last game when you said "Unknown is playing the same way I did when I was scum in POLITICO" it's actually a poor attempt at scum-hunting by comparing others to yourself in argument with a scum-read.

Correct me if I'm wrong but this was one of your first posts and given that you don't state a scum-read on him, I fail to see why you'd bother with this post as all it does it criticise a NAI part of NU's playstyle.


I feel like summarizing.

TDL-Town. (I know this isn't backed up a ton, but I'm not going to make up fake bullshit in my post so I'm going to wait until I can do my wall post stuff)

DarknessB- Town

Calix- Scum.

Never Unlucky- Town, but feels hostile towards everyone and uses odd scum-hunting techniques.

Mesk514- I like her the least.

Secondpassing- Under appreciated town who feels ignored.

Iced_Monopoly- Scum, feels like his regular "scum hiding under the radar" play.

Whoever the 10th person is I've missed so that is life. My read on Calix is mostly based on her lack of effort and the way she is playing. I will cover this later when I can. Darkness and TDL feel town, Mesk and Iced feel scum and Nu and Secondpassing don't feel terribly scummy to me, but I'm really in and out right now so I can sleep.

Making a reads list with less than 100 posts into the game. Strong.

Instead of showing any initiative, all it does is make it look like you're contributing while placing the onus of explaining these reads on the town.

Again, the fact that anyone has a read on either TDL or myself astounds me, given that all we did was discuss the setup and vote for each other due to meta.

I don't see why you feel the need to undermine a town-read by saying he is hostile and scum-hunts oddly. You also do the same thing with TDL by going "oh yeah I don't have much to back up this town-read"

Didn't Iced just make a few check-in posts before you made this post? That, coupled with your 'scum-read' of me because I 'haven't put enough effort into the game', makes it look like you are trying to use NAI aspects to make players look bad.


Im still semi scum reading DB, Im uncomfortable with the position hes taken in this game so far, which to me has been 'drawing attention of other players to each other, and perpetuating conversation (arguements/scum reads/and what have you) while maintaining a position far enough away to avoid the spotlight'. Potentially going out of his way to create TvT situations, if not more sinisterly creating TvS situations and subtly backing the scum/strawmaning the T (that cant be proven without a flip though, so its mostly just internal paranoia)

Which posts gave you the impression that DB is trying to create TvT/ TvS situations?

What about NU made you conclude town > scum?

Agreed that Eggy and TDL are null.


I think best course of action D1 is to lynch a player that has had interactions with the most number of people, and been at the heart of most discussions. This gives us the most information to work with moving into D2. The consequence is of course that we're down 1 active player, but im willing to gamble on information > chance of lurkers. Lurkers can have their asses lynched anyways.

While I agree that lynching an active = more information, it's better to just stick to lynching scum reads regardless of activity. If someone is scummy enough, then they'll be in the spotlight regardless. This idea is just going to give low-posters such as Spruance a pass for today.

[Mesk514]

First of all, I've never read SecondPassing to be scum, so I don't see how someone could be jumping to my defence.
Second of all, this game is all about POE and scum hunting. If you're going to use your personal issues as a way to scum hunt, please get the fuck out.
Third of all, It's not throwing shade if you don't understand someones thought process and just want a clarification.

Thus being said, I've been AFK. So HELLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I AM MESK, care to test your luck and run a train on me? I promise I'll enjoy it more than you will, I'm sure Eggy can agree to that..... take that for real life meta !!! CHOOOOCHOOOOOO

Anyways regarding SecondPassing and Never Unlucky, while SecondPassings thought process doesn't seem that well thought out. Looking back I believe his vote to be a RVS one, and if it wasn't then why is his vote still there?

SecondPassing himself even admits he's salty so that leaves me with, why would Never Unlucky continue to push him on a dead point?
Never Unlucky goes on & such.
I've literally said this every fucking game but for fucks sakes, 35 posts into a game doesn't give you enough to make a full educated read on someone. And this is where I see Never Unlucky contradicting himself.

"Flagging this post for further consideration -- asking people who they'd like to see lynched before any reads has been made implies that you want to lynch players based on RNG/personal stuff rather than reads. This is odd at best and scummy at worse. I don't like it."
"I don't like that you feel the 'need to post' -- A town would feel the need to contribute to scumhunting even if that's made in only two posts. Quantity doesn't matter. You drawing attention to 'posting' specifically implies that you want to appear active but not necessarily contribute."

Never Unlucky calls out SecondPassing for wanting people to give some sort serious contribution to the game and says he's wanting "to lynch players based on RNG/personal stuff rather than leads. Day 1 there are no reads, so the only way to establish anything you have to engage in conversation. Therefore when Never Unlucky talks about contribution not needing to be quantity he's basically saying that a Town wouldn't feel the need to be super active and engaging in a game like this. Which seems odd.

SecondPassing on the other hand seems to be a little more friendly this game, which could be scum motivated but he seems to be handling himself better than Never Unlucky he is so unlike Iced, I'm more inclined SecondPassing is a definite T in this T v ?


So then Never Unlucky literally goes on to tunnel SecondPassing, jumps to asking for Darkness' opinion on this interaction.

Darkness seems to have the most common sense so far...
"Also, the "thoughts don't count" comment is silly and he has to know it -- anything you say or do in an FM game is fair to examine and there doesn't seem to be much point in discounting one's own actions."
"but I seriously hope you're not Townreading someone based on their demeanor during the first 3-4 posts of the game..."

Going on to Eggy who's made the biggest contradiction their is yet in this game

Anyway I am pretty confident after reading these few pages that NU is actually scum. He is tunneling second passing for absloutley nothing from what I can see. I find it scummy to cling to something posted on the first page and try to paint it as a slip. I also dont think second passing is scummy whats so ever so as far as im concerned this arguement is TVT or its scum vs town with NU being town.

I know its early in the game but Im pretty sure I kno who 2 of the scum are being NU and mesk.

What is going through your mind to make a mistake like that? lol

Iced said this regarding Eggy: "as even his teammates are likely to chuck him under the bus"
which to be honest I believe it's more Eggy who would throw his team mates under the bus as opposed to them throwing him. That's been shown enough during Eggys previous scum plays.

Spruance...? Has Spruance said anything?

Calix... let me start with this
"Mesk is really subdued this game and unlike her OW play (where she struggled to keep up with the high post volume) I see no reason for that to be the case."

DUDE, ITS NOT EVEN 24 FUCKING HOURS INTO THE GAME, I HAVE A LIFE, I HAVE THINGS TO DO, THINGS TO CLEAN, PEOPLE TO SATISFY, PEOPLE TO ENTERTAIN, FUCK OFF BITCH AND START BEING RESPECTFUL OF THE ONES THAT ARE WILLING TO TAKE A BULLET FOR YOU <3

Any comments on Never Unlucky seemingly trying to buddy with you? why the fuck do you care about his formatting?

"While I agree that lynching an active = more information, it's better to just stick to lynching scum reads regardless of activity. If someone is scummy enough, then they'll be in the spotlight regardless. This idea is just going to give low-posters such as Spruance a pass for today."

Calix, you've often come after me for defending myself with "Hey, I did what I had to do to survive the game" so what makes this game different? If Spruance is lurking for whatever reason, isn't that something you highly frown upon. Isn't it you who advocates removing toxic players before a critical moment in a game?

Unknowns okay, I agree on most of his points...
"I don't agree with how heavy the comment was pursued but this is the kind of stuff Darkness usually does. "
"What makes you believe comparing people to you do anything in regards to scum-hunting?"
"NU, stop being a doorknob and aggravating people with your cockiness."
" I feel that NU has a hostile way of playing"

Iced and TDL are pretty much Null as they have the least activity after Spruance, who's posted Nada. I guess I'd like to see how they fit into all this


so now that I'm all caught up, i would kindly ask that you all hop off my dick. kthxkbye

"This is my 4th game, but I am not a noob. I know the game. I'm a better player than some players you'll tag as 'veteran'."

Dude, who the fuck do you think you are?

[Calix]

secondpassing
Im going to be leaving in a few mins for atleast the next 4 hours, so this seems as good a place as any to begin.


Im still in and out, reading in the breaks i get, my 4 hours plan is out the window, could be upto another 2.5 hours yet. Not a fan of db atm, will post on it when im home




Calix

Time to tunnel you mindlessly for no legitimate reason at all.


You see, I'm secretly John Cena, so you can't see me.

That means you are lying about seeing me, and are obv scum. GG pleb. Get good.


Yeah, I determined optimal strategy for the town is to lynch two scum while avoiding losing four town.

Not much to say about it really. ^^


Just gonna play this like a normal all citizens vs all Mafioso game. Find scum reads, lynch them. Find town reads, don't lynch them. I don't really think finding an arbitrary number of town reads is particularly important.


Town blocs leave people too comfortable. Albeit I will admit it's not as bad this game as if a single scum is on it it won't kill our game since one scum can survive and we still win.

Honestly the win conditions seem terribly arbitrary to me and the person DW took the idea from must have been smoking some weird shit.

But I'm not really liking the idea of a townbloc anyways since that just results in us getting too comfortable with people.
Unknown1234 secondpassing Explain how these posts have any relevance on someone's alignment.

[Mesk514]

also, Never Unlucky

[Calix]

Anyways regarding SecondPassing and Never Unlucky, while SecondPassings thought process doesn't seem that well thought out. Looking back I believe his vote to be a RVS one, and if it wasn't then why is his vote still there?

If you're referring to SP voting for you, he changed his vote a while ago.


I've literally said this every fucking game but for fucks sakes, 35 posts into a game doesn't give you enough to make a full educated read on someone. And this is where I see Never Unlucky contradicting himself.

"Flagging this post for further consideration -- asking people who they'd like to see lynched before any reads has been made implies that you want to lynch players based on RNG/personal stuff rather than reads. This is odd at best and scummy at worse. I don't like it."
"I don't like that you feel the 'need to post' -- A town would feel the need to contribute to scumhunting even if that's made in only two posts. Quantity doesn't matter. You drawing attention to 'posting' specifically implies that you want to appear active but not necessarily contribute."

Never Unlucky calls out SecondPassing for wanting people to give some sort serious contribution to the game and says he's wanting "to lynch players based on RNG/personal stuff rather than leads. Day 1 there are no reads, so the only way to establish anything you have to engage in conversation. Therefore when Never Unlucky talks about contribution not needing to be quantity he's basically saying that a Town wouldn't feel the need to be super active and engaging in a game like this. Which seems odd.

You say that he calls out SP on a point that you disagree on with regards to activity...but what is your point exactly outside of it seeming 'odd'?


SecondPassing on the other hand seems to be a little more friendly this game, which could be scum motivated but he seems to be handling himself better than Never Unlucky he is so unlike Iced, I'm more inclined SecondPassing is a definite T in this T v ?

What do you mean by 'handling himself better' and how is this town-motivated?


So then Never Unlucky literally goes on to tunnel SecondPassing, jumps to asking for Darkness' opinion on this interaction.

Tunneling...also not a scum tell.

Common sense is not alignment-indicative, same as almost everything else that's been used so far. What is with everyone using the worst reasoning to form reads so far? :weird:

I don't think Eggy is so stupid as to state "NU is actually scum" and "SP isn't scummy at all" before saying "this is TvS and NU is town" - looks like a typo. You even refer to it as a mistake yourself...so how is it the 'biggest contradiction' in the game exactly?

The salt is real.

How has NU been trying to buddy me? I don't think we've actually talked yet in this game and him kissing my arse is how he rolls. Beginner's Game, anyone?

I don't think Spruance has even logged onto his account yet. I also don't get how you inferred that I wanted to 'keep toxic players around' when I was countering Iced's point about lynching a scummy active player > just lynching a scummy player regardless of activity.

You actually liked Unknown's posts? :laugh: Nothing you quoted has him scum-hunting or making any definitive stances on alignments.

[Calix]

Vote Count 1.0



secondpassing (3 [L-3]): (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/16431)
Iced_Monopoly (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=632717), Calix (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=632827), Never Unlucky (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=632767)
Calix (1 [L-5]): (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/27116)
TheDarkestLight (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=632719)
Spruance (1 [L-5]): (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/27577)
DarknessB (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=632723)
Never Unlucky (3 [L-3]): (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/27959)
secondpassing (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=632764), Eggy (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=632743), Mesk514 (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=632838)


Interesting that the wagons are this consolidated so early on as opposed to having 9430957 wagons like we usually have at SOD. Either it's TvS and one of the wagons is a counter-train to the scum wagon or it's TvT and the scum are sitting back.

Thinking the former right now, given how divisive SP vs NU has been in terms of organising players so quickly. Scum have little incentive to stick their necks out over two town wagons.

The other two votes are just RVS.

[Eggy]

Well, your argument isn't very strong so I hope you could see why I would believe you had a grudge against him. That and the "I don't like him"

Anyways moving on from that, you say his posts "discredit in a way that strikes me as anti-town" how is discrediting anti-town, or why is his different. I feel that NU has a hostile way of playing, which I don't agree with either, but I definitely think it's NAI. He did it in IC as well.

I didnt say its scummy just said that its anti town. Even if he is town. I just dont like how he always says people are deflecting when they are not or that they didnt answer his questions when they did.

[Eggy]

Slips are pushed by town. I've had pushed on me for slips, others too, don't think that's a string argument to use.

Where was this 'defense' of Mesk? Maybe I missed it.

Wouldn't you want to vote Mesk if she is your biggest scum-read and because you are connecting NU with Mesk.

Well NU started attacking second passing as soon as he voted mesk. That was my train of thought at least. And i am about to change my vote. Mesk seems to fishy to me. Especially after her last post.

[Iced_Monopoly]

Which posts gave you the impression that DB is trying to create TvT/ TvS situations?

#25 and #27 seem more like him trying to bring mesk and SP into an arguement/focusing on each other, then he repeats a near-same behaviour with SP and NU. The SP/NU discussions he was more involved in and interacted a little more, rather than just facilitating the conversation for other people to focus on each other, which reads less scummy to me than just throwing two people at each other and sitting back to watch the show, still suspicious overall though.


What about NU made you conclude town > scum?
Because I cant make a decent case that I believe in for reading as scum at the moment, im not convinced on the other arguements that have been made about him either yet.

In regards to the two current trains, im still townreading SP, and as im undecided on NU (and believe in heavier trains in this setup), im relocating my vote Never Unlucky

[Eggy]

First up, reading SP as town, especially after his earlier comment

This was my thought process too, driving hard trains and analysis reactions and opinions to those trains, the more we have the chance to get in, the better. (until we have too many and it becomes meaningless..)

Im still semi scum reading DB, Im uncomfortable with the position hes taken in this game so far, which to me has been 'drawing attention of other players to each other, and perpetuating conversation (arguements/scum reads/and what have you) while maintaining a position far enough away to avoid the spotlight'. Potentially going out of his way to create TvT situations, if not more sinisterly creating TvS situations and subtly backing the scum/strawmaning the T (that cant be proven without a flip though, so its mostly just internal paranoia)

I too havnt liked unknowns posts, most of them have contributed nothing, just telling people to stop fighting (despite there being no legitimate fights or arguements, petty grudges is even a stretch). The posts he did make on reads have already been refuted (myself included), looks like he is just attempting to participate by throwing shade.

NUs interactions are interesting, based on my read of DB, that either puts him as T or S (obviously) based on the scenarios I considered earlier, Im more inclined to roll with T though

Mesk has done shit all, I mean she hasnt even spammed the fuck out of being town yet, which probably shouldve happened by now. Thats not a real point, but il wait to see more of mesk before I make any actual decisions, for now id be leaning slight scum but mostly unaligned.

eggy is eggy, its going to be very easier to determine if hes scum or not based on how this game progresses. If he is scum, I dont think we'll learn much on a flip, as even his teammates are likely to chuck him under the bus. Might be best to leave till later if he starts to show signs of his scum play and we need a guaranteed lynch.

I think that just leaves TDL and Calix, which ive no opinion on as of yet (as theyve done nothing AI).

I think best course of action D1 is to lynch a player that has had interactions with the most number of people, and been at the heart of most discussions. This gives us the most information to work with moving into D2. The consequence is of course that we're down 1 active player, but im willing to gamble on information > chance of lurkers. Lurkers can have their asses lynched anyways.

Dont think i've ever been chucked under the bus. I dont even ever remember being lynched lol. Except for in insanity but thts because I was afk(didnt even submit night action) idk where you are getting this from.

I dont like how you are saying we should lynchthe most active player instead of the player who we scum read the hardest. I dont think that is a smart move at all, it almost encourages potential scum to keep lurking.

[Eggy]

#25 and #27 seem more like him trying to bring mesk and SP into an arguement/focusing on each other, then he repeats a near-same behaviour with SP and NU. The SP/NU discussions he was more involved in and interacted a little more, rather than just facilitating the conversation for other people to focus on each other, which reads less scummy to me than just throwing two people at each other and sitting back to watch the show, still suspicious overall though.

Because I cant make a decent case that I believe in for reading as scum at the moment, im not convinced on the other arguements that have been made about him either yet.

In regards to the two current trains, im still townreading SP, and as im undecided on NU (and believe in heavier trains in this setup), im relocating my vote Never Unlucky

Im about to unvote never unlucky. Think im wrong about him. I dont trust the people who are on his train. I suggest we all vote mesk for a guaranteed successful lynch.

[Calix]

#25 and #27 seem more like him trying to bring mesk and SP into an arguement/focusing on each other, then he repeats a near-same behaviour with SP and NU. The SP/NU discussions he was more involved in and interacted a little more, rather than just facilitating the conversation for other people to focus on each other, which reads less scummy to me than just throwing two people at each other and sitting back to watch the show, still suspicious overall though.

#25 was him asking for a clarification for a meta reference. I don't see anything notable there. You make a stronger point with #27 as he funnels Mesk's line of thought along those lines.


Because I cant make a decent case that I believe in for reading as scum at the moment, im not convinced on the other arguements that have been made about him either yet.

In regards to the two current trains, im still townreading SP, and as im undecided on NU (and believe in heavier trains in this setup), im relocating my vote Never Unlucky

Wait, so you state that you can't think of a compelling scum narrative for NU, yet you are willing to put him at L-2? Your vote won't do anything because a) you have openly said that you don't scum-read him/ have not affirmed your agreement with any arguments made against him and b) you haven't given him anything to respond to.

Not sure on how likely a quick-hammer is in this setup, but given that time is the only thing we have, I don't like the prospect of some idiot early-hammering and thus reducing the amount of time we have to discuss.

[Iced_Monopoly]

Dont think i've ever been chucked under the bus. I dont even ever remember being lynched lol. Except for in insanity but thts because I was afk(didnt even submit night action) idk where you are getting this from.

I dont like how you are saying we should lynchthe most active player instead of the player who we scum read the hardest. I dont think that is a smart move at all, it almost encourages potential scum to keep lurking.

My 'under the bus' comments were in regards to your emotional and abusive state you assume when scum and being read for it. Being an easy tell, your teammates would probably rather lynch you than defend you should you be scum.

As for my comments on most active, its D1 only that im suggesting this, I also said the other criteria for the lynch would be that player being the most discussed (they could have 1 post and still be most discussed - doesnt need activity) as the interactions we could analyse from a post flip lynch would reveal the motives of the most number of players. Your own arguement is contradictory too, you claim to not want to encourage scum to lurk, but you want to lynch strongest scum read. To get a strong scum read on D1, a player must be talking and/or interacting (with votes), otherwise theyre not a strong lynch, more so a policy lynch. So you are either in favour of policy lynching or lynching active players today (which is what youre calling me on).

[Calix]

Dont think i've ever been chucked under the bus. I dont even ever remember being lynched lol. Except for in insanity but thts because I was afk(didnt even submit night action) idk where you are getting this from.

I dont like how you are saying we should lynchthe most active player instead of the player who we scum read the hardest. I dont think that is a smart move at all, it almost encourages potential scum to keep lurking.

I initially had this same concern. However it'll become really obvious if the scum try to lurk their way to a win and there is literally no incentive for a town player to lurk when there are no TPRs or whatever reasoning people use to justify that 'strategy'

It's still a dumb idea that just unnecessarily reduces the pressure you can apply to inactive players though.

[Eggy]

First of all, I've never read SecondPassing to be scum, so I don't see how someone could be jumping to my defence.
Second of all, this game is all about POE and scum hunting. If you're going to use your personal issues as a way to scum hunt, please get the fuck out.
Third of all, It's not throwing shade if you don't understand someones thought process and just want a clarification.

Thus being said, I've been AFK. So HELLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I AM MESK, care to test your luck and run a train on me? I promise I'll enjoy it more than you will, I'm sure Eggy can agree to that..... take that for real life meta !!! CHOOOOCHOOOOOO

Anyways regarding SecondPassing and Never Unlucky, while SecondPassings thought process doesn't seem that well thought out. Looking back I believe his vote to be a RVS one, and if it wasn't then why is his vote still there?

SecondPassing himself even admits he's salty so that leaves me with, why would Never Unlucky continue to push him on a dead point?
Never Unlucky goes on & such.
I've literally said this every fucking game but for fucks sakes, 35 posts into a game doesn't give you enough to make a full educated read on someone. And this is where I see Never Unlucky contradicting himself.

"Flagging this post for further consideration -- asking people who they'd like to see lynched before any reads has been made implies that you want to lynch players based on RNG/personal stuff rather than reads. This is odd at best and scummy at worse. I don't like it."
"I don't like that you feel the 'need to post' -- A town would feel the need to contribute to scumhunting even if that's made in only two posts. Quantity doesn't matter. You drawing attention to 'posting' specifically implies that you want to appear active but not necessarily contribute."

Never Unlucky calls out SecondPassing for wanting people to give some sort serious contribution to the game and says he's wanting "to lynch players based on RNG/personal stuff rather than leads. Day 1 there are no reads, so the only way to establish anything you have to engage in conversation. Therefore when Never Unlucky talks about contribution not needing to be quantity he's basically saying that a Town wouldn't feel the need to be super active and engaging in a game like this. Which seems odd.

SecondPassing on the other hand seems to be a little more friendly this game, which could be scum motivated but he seems to be handling himself better than Never Unlucky he is so unlike Iced, I'm more inclined SecondPassing is a definite T in this T v ?


So then Never Unlucky literally goes on to tunnel SecondPassing, jumps to asking for Darkness' opinion on this interaction.

Darkness seems to have the most common sense so far...
"Also, the "thoughts don't count" comment is silly and he has to know it -- anything you say or do in an FM game is fair to examine and there doesn't seem to be much point in discounting one's own actions."
"but I seriously hope you're not Townreading someone based on their demeanor during the first 3-4 posts of the game..."

Going on to Eggy who's made the biggest contradiction their is yet in this game

Anyway I am pretty confident after reading these few pages that NU is actually scum. He is tunneling second passing for absloutley nothing from what I can see. I find it scummy to cling to something posted on the first page and try to paint it as a slip. I also dont think second passing is scummy whats so ever so as far as im concerned this arguement is TVT or its scum vs town with NU being town.

I know its early in the game but Im pretty sure I kno who 2 of the scum are being NU and mesk.

What is going through your mind to make a mistake like that? lol

Iced said this regarding Eggy: "as even his teammates are likely to chuck him under the bus"
which to be honest I believe it's more Eggy who would throw his team mates under the bus as opposed to them throwing him. That's been shown enough during Eggys previous scum plays.

Spruance...? Has Spruance said anything?

Calix... let me start with this
"Mesk is really subdued this game and unlike her OW play (where she struggled to keep up with the high post volume) I see no reason for that to be the case."

DUDE, ITS NOT EVEN 24 FUCKING HOURS INTO THE GAME, I HAVE A LIFE, I HAVE THINGS TO DO, THINGS TO CLEAN, PEOPLE TO SATISFY, PEOPLE TO ENTERTAIN, FUCK OFF BITCH AND START BEING RESPECTFUL OF THE ONES THAT ARE WILLING TO TAKE A BULLET FOR YOU <3

Any comments on Never Unlucky seemingly trying to buddy with you? why the fuck do you care about his formatting?

"While I agree that lynching an active = more information, it's better to just stick to lynching scum reads regardless of activity. If someone is scummy enough, then they'll be in the spotlight regardless. This idea is just going to give low-posters such as Spruance a pass for today."

Calix, you've often come after me for defending myself with "Hey, I did what I had to do to survive the game" so what makes this game different? If Spruance is lurking for whatever reason, isn't that something you highly frown upon. Isn't it you who advocates removing toxic players before a critical moment in a game?

Unknowns okay, I agree on most of his points...
"I don't agree with how heavy the comment was pursued but this is the kind of stuff Darkness usually does. "
"What makes you believe comparing people to you do anything in regards to scum-hunting?"
"NU, stop being a doorknob and aggravating people with your cockiness."
" I feel that NU has a hostile way of playing"

Iced and TDL are pretty much Null as they have the least activity after Spruance, who's posted Nada. I guess I'd like to see how they fit into all this


so now that I'm all caught up, i would kindly ask that you all hop off my dick. kthxkbye

"This is my 4th game, but I am not a noob. I know the game. I'm a better player than some players you'll tag as 'veteran'."

Dude, who the fuck do you think you are?


Lolol this got me :p and although I bet you would enjoy it more than anyone else Its going to be fun for everyone so we should get all aboard ;)

And I clearly meant NU being scum it was a mistake not AI at all.

I love you mesk but I gotta win this and I know your scum so unfortunately you are going down.

Please dont hate me lol<3 Ill make it up to you somehow ;) aha

So yea I think ima start this train I always like to be the first person to ride.

mesk514

[Iced_Monopoly]

Wait, so you state that you can't think of a compelling scum narrative for NU, yet you are willing to put him at L-2? Your vote won't do anything because a) you have openly said that you don't scum-read him/ have not affirmed your agreement with any arguments made against him and b) you haven't given him anything to respond to.

Not sure on how likely a quick-hammer is in this setup, but given that time is the only thing we have, I don't like the prospect of some idiot early-hammering and thus reducing the amount of time we have to discuss.

He has been heavily (for the game so far) discussed/interacted with though, thus fitting my criteria for a good lynch candidate for the day. Anybody hammering (this) early in a setup like this is only going to get themselves lynched, so im not concerned with L-2 being a danger to an early day end. Im going to maintain my vote here until there is something more attractive to move to, if this vote never moves, and NU is lynched then im still happy.

[Calix]

secondpassing

My vote got changed to NU for some reason.

[Eggy]

My 'under the bus' comments were in regards to your emotional and abusive state you assume when scum and being read for it. Being an easy tell, your teammates would probably rather lynch you than defend you should you be scum.

As for my comments on most active, its D1 only that im suggesting this, I also said the other criteria for the lynch would be that player being the most discussed (they could have 1 post and still be most discussed - doesnt need activity) as the interactions we could analyse from a post flip lynch would reveal the motives of the most number of players. Your own arguement is contradictory too, you claim to not want to encourage scum to lurk, but you want to lynch strongest scum read. To get a strong scum read on D1, a player must be talking and/or interacting (with votes), otherwise theyre not a strong lynch, more so a policy lynch. So you are either in favour of policy lynching or lynching active players today (which is what youre calling me on).

Mesk has not posted alot but she is my strongest scum read. Her play seems very off from what she normally does. She has not even said she is town yet. Maybe because she was scum last game so she knows people will question it. I still think thst a scum read is not based off of activity but more individual posts.

[Eggy]

secondpassing

My vote got changed to NU for some reason.

I think you should hop on the mesk train. I am 99% sure she is scum. If it doesnt seem like its going throught ill vote secondpassing before NU.
The quality of people voting him has me very concerned.

[Calix]

He has been heavily (for the game so far) discussed/interacted with though, thus fitting my criteria for a good lynch candidate for the day. Anybody hammering (this) early in a setup like this is only going to get themselves lynched, so im not concerned with L-2 being a danger to an early day end. Im going to maintain my vote here until there is something more attractive to move to, if this vote never moves, and NU is lynched then im still happy.

You make a valid point.

Given that town has like, 4 mislynches (which is literally half the town lmao), then this is actually one of the better setups for a policy lynch. (although I'd only switch if we didn't have a better candidate near EOD, which is not currently the case) No sense in keeping someone around who will only distract players from pinpointing the real scum.

[Eggy]

Scum right now.

Mesk

Iced monopoly.

Maybe secondpassing im not sure.

[Eggy]

You make a valid point.

Given that town has like, 4 mislynches (which is literally half the town lmao), then this is actually one of the better setups for a policy lynch. (although I'd only switch if we didn't have a better candidate near EOD, which is not currently the case) No sense in keeping someone around who will only distract players from pinpointing the real scum.

Why do you scumread second passing? The only thing ai find fishy is people I think are scum siding with him and voting NU based on nothing substanial really. I havnt found anything he has said to be particualarly scummy. Another question. Is anyone town reading mesk?

[Iced_Monopoly]

Mesk has not posted alot but she is my strongest scum read. Her play seems very off from what she normally does. She has not even said she is town yet. Maybe because she was scum last game so she knows people will question it. I still think thst a scum read is not based off of activity but more individual posts.

So besides meta, why is she your strongest scum read?


I am 99% sure she is scum.
Those are some crazy convictions this early in the game, especially if theyre only based on meta

[Calix]

I think you should hop on the mesk train. I am 99% sure she is scum. If it doesnt seem like its going throught ill vote secondpassing before NU.
The quality of people voting him has me very concerned.

Wasn't it the quality of the voters on the NU train that made you concerned, or do both trains make you skeptical?

Walk me through why you dislike...whichever train you're referring to.

I want to have a one-on-one with SP before I consider switching my vote. A Mesk vote suits me just fine.

[Calix]

Why do you scumread second passing? The only thing ai find fishy is people I think are scum siding with him and voting NU based on nothing substanial really. I havnt found anything he has said to be particualarly scummy. Another question. Is anyone town reading mesk?

I think his TDL read is based on an unwarranted level of confidence that is at odds with the reasoning he gave. Feels like he knows TDL's alignment and thus had an easier time doling out a read on it. Given that there are only two factions, scum have an easy time giving out town-reads as they know who the town are. Mind you, this assumes that TDL is town and I can't say I'm confident in that deduction whatsoever.

His reactive scum-read of NU was also terrible. I don't recall SP scum-reading anyone else or making much of an effort to scum-hunt, which scum would find difficult as they carry the guilt of being scum, so scum-reading someone pushing SP after they stated a scum-read on him = suspicious.

[Eggy]

So besides meta, why is she your strongest scum read?


Those are some crazy convictions this early in the game, especially if theyre only based on meta

she seemed to hop on the Nu train without much thought given to it all. much like yourself. I feel like it is exactly what I would do if I was scum. I never should have started that train tbh. Also I believe my judge of mesks meta is very on point. being as I have played more with her than anyone else. and I just played a game with her as my scum buddy. her current play reminds me off the begginer game very much. she has not done anything that typical town mesk does in the beggining of the game. I am very confident she is scum.

[Eggy]

Wasn't it the quality of the voters on the NU train that made you concerned, or do both trains make you skeptical?

Walk me through why you dislike...whichever train you're referring to.

I want to have a one-on-one with SP before I consider switching my vote. A Mesk vote suits me just fine.

I dislike the second passing train. mesk was my strongest scum read. NU was the person applying pressure to secondpassing he did nothing scummy ither than clinging to a very small detail from the first page and rolling with it for way to long. then all of a sudden iced and mesk jumped on the NU train without much explination. I dont see the town motive behind it. to me it seems like they are trying to save one of their own and hiding behind the fact me and second passing voted him first to sort of blend it and push a mislynch. I feel like town would definately take more time to chose between the 2. especially since iced put him at L-2. none of their explanations for why they voted him seemed sincere. it is more of a gut feeling than anything else at this point.

[Eggy]

I think his TDL read is based on an unwarranted level of confidence that is at odds with the reasoning he gave. Feels like he knows TDL's alignment and thus had an easier time doling out a read on it. Given that there are only two factions, scum have an easy time giving out town-reads as they know who the town are. Mind you, this assumes that TDL is town and I can't say I'm confident in that deduction whatsoever.

His reactive scum-read of NU was also terrible. I don't recall SP scum-reading anyone else or making much of an effort to scum-hunt, which scum would find difficult as they carry the guilt of being scum, so scum-reading someone pushing SP after they stated a scum-read on him = suspicious.

Alright I am more satisfied with this explanation than anything mesk or iced has given so far. This strikes me as honnest to god town motivated descision instead of trying to shift the attention onto someone else.

[Eggy]

Wasn't it the quality of the voters on the NU train that made you concerned, or do both trains make you skeptical?

Walk me through why you dislike...whichever train you're referring to.

I want to have a one-on-one with SP before I consider switching my vote. A Mesk vote suits me just fine.

Im going to sleep so Ill be back tomorrow afternoon I suggest you try and strike this conversation with second it might be quite informative. I dont mind lynching him either. I just much rather see mesk hang. much like how she was able to tell I was scum in IC first. I think I am able to tell she is scum now. If people would just take my advice, im positive it would lead to the desired results

[Eggy]

Im warning people do not push NU based off who is voting him im pretty sure he is town right now.(sorry for leading this train NU) it was not warranted. he definately should not be the lynch for today. If he is im pretty sure that all 3 people who are voting him right now is the scum team(or atleast 2 of them) which would be really stupid on their part but I cant say I would be suprised.

[Calix]

I dislike the second passing train. mesk was my strongest scum read. NU was the person applying pressure to secondpassing he did nothing scummy ither than clinging to a very small detail from the first page and rolling with it for way to long. then all of a sudden iced and mesk jumped on the NU train without much explination. I dont see the town motive behind it. to me it seems like they are trying to save one of their own and hiding behind the fact me and second passing voted him first to sort of blend it and push a mislynch. I feel like town would definately take more time to chose between the 2. especially since iced put him at L-2. none of their explanations for why they voted him seemed sincere. it is more of a gut feeling than anything else at this point.

I think NU is trying to apply what I told him during the Beginner's Game about having something to say (as he admits he struggles with that) and that might explain why he is being more nit-picky than he used to be.

I am not sure wherever sheep votes are telling of anything at this point in time due to the lack of information. If anything, they should be encouraged because you can see which trains people are willing to follow/ defend.

'Careless town' is always something to consider, but given that Iced knew that he was putting NU at L-2 and Mesk's vote was...something alright...I don't think that explanation is applicable.

[Calix]

Also I have never ever seen anyone get lynched based on meta alone, so I would work on a more substantial case which will result in better responses. Not much anyone can say about meta reads, honestly.

I for one can't pinpoint a lot about Mesk save for what I flagged up in my response to her wall-post and a tone read. Although I had a similar feeling about you in IC and that turned out to be correct.

[Iced_Monopoly]

I dislike the second passing train. mesk was my strongest scum read. NU was the person applying pressure to secondpassing he did nothing scummy ither than clinging to a very small detail from the first page and rolling with it for way to long. then all of a sudden iced and mesk jumped on the NU train without much explination. I dont see the town motive behind it. to me it seems like they are trying to save one of their own and hiding behind the fact me and second passing voted him first to sort of blend it and push a mislynch. I feel like town would definately take more time to chose between the 2. especially since iced put him at L-2. none of their explanations for why they voted him seemed sincere. it is more of a gut feeling than anything else at this point.

Yeah you caught me, gg. I and mesk both jumped onto NU because there was some non existent pressure at the very start of the first day on our teammate and we were totally concerned he was going to be lynched that we risked revealing ourselves in a game based entirely on PoE. 10/10 detective skills right there eggy, youre definitely getting my mvp vote after this game ends today.

Where is our lovely 10th member, Spruance come entertain me

[Calix]

Yeah you caught me, gg. I and mesk both jumped onto NU because there was some non existent pressure at the very start of the first day on our teammate and we were totally concerned he was going to be lynched that we risked revealing ourselves in a game based entirely on PoE. 10/10 detective skills right there eggy, youre definitely getting my mvp vote after this game ends today.

Where is our lovely 10th member, @Spruance (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php?u=27577) come entertain me

Going to respond with anything other than sarcasm, boo? I get that you want to emulate me, but it's a futile effort ;)

[Iced_Monopoly]

Going to respond with anything other than sarcasm, boo? I get that you want to emulate me, but it's a futile effort ;)

Was there anything other than sarcasm that was deserved in that situation though? I'll be back to post if anyone else rocks up, unless you want to chat about something specific

[Calix]

Was there anything other than sarcasm that was deserved in that situation though? I'll be back to post if anyone else rocks up, unless you want to chat about something specific

Given the topic being discussed is your vote, let's go back to your explanation for it:


He has been heavily (for the game so far) discussed/interacted with though, thus fitting my criteria for a good lynch candidate for the day. Anybody hammering (this) early in a setup like this is only going to get themselves lynched, so im not concerned with L-2 being a danger to an early day end. Im going to maintain my vote here until there is something more attractive to move to, if this vote never moves, and NU is lynched then im still happy.

Question. Why do you feel that lynching a heavily-discussed "not scum" lean is the most attractive option right now? I can't get over voting for someone that you do not actually scum-read, preferring to vote for the next viable train instead of voting/ lobbying for a train for one of your stated scum-reads. (which would also generate information) It's barely 12 hours into the day so time is not a concern.

Like I said before, there are no TPRs and the scum have no way of having a guaranteed town kill so there is no benefit to having a town lurk. If anything, town are far more likely to be the active/ discussed players that you refer to and lynching them based on how often they are discussed alone helps the scum because a) kills off the pushier townies and b) helps them avoid the spotlight.

Informational lynches have their uses, sure, but your stated strategy of focusing on active/ interactive players based on activity reasons seems like it'll punish players for their playstyle more than anything else. Granted, I am biased here :laugh:

I have a bad headache so if you're still around, then you can take your time with fleshing out your reasoning here as I won't be here to respond.

[Unknown1234]

I made a reads list pretty much because I'm around twice a day and if I didn't get my early thoughts out sooner or later then I wouldn't have shared any opinions. My reads might be rushed, but because I wanted to actually look at everyone I scaled players on a town-Mafia scale to who I currently believe is Mafia an town.

[Unknown1234]

Unknown1234 secondpassing Explain how these posts have any relevance on someone's alignment.

However you choose to take these posts is up to you, but I know that scum!Iced_Monopoly has done this several times where he needs to post he is here but actually doesn't cover much. Like I said, I really wanted an overall opinion and I think these posts reflect more from a scum then a town.

[Unknown1234]

Can't quote atm, but Unknown1234
Iced_Monopoly- Scum, feels like his regular "scum hiding under the radar" play

What games that I've been scum have i ever played under the radar? I'm also not avoiding anything, I'm in defence force interviews atm and we have to have our phones off and locked away when in certain parts of the building. Pls take your shitty analysis and misrep of my behavior elsewhere.

In other news, home within the hour. Posting then.

It's not even a bad analysis, unless you want to tell me why I should believe you are town, all you've done is tell people you are away, by doing that it makes you seem like you care to put effort in when it's possible you don't. I also don't like the amount of shade you're throwing at me in these comments. For whatever reason if you're town doing this then I don't see why you need to do it.

[Unknown1234]

Also, Calix, I commented on it mostly because it really isn't a good strategy for scum-hunting so I figured that commenting on it would be possibly a start to removing it.

And no, I did explain why I thought NU's posts wernt scummy, however I don't agree entirely with how they scum-read people. So I suppose it was a counter argument to their "they played like me when I was scum in POLITICO". They tried that on me last game as well and I ended up being town.

[Never Unlucky]

This is annoying. What makes you believe comparing people to you do anything in regards to scum-hunting?

Honestly, I don't like this post. You tried this strategy last game when you said "Unknown is playing the same way I did when I was scum in POLITICO" it's actually a poor attempt at scum-hunting by comparing others to yourself in argument with a scum-read.
Yes, I used similar arguments in IC, and my reads were accurate in that game.


And your vote isn't RVS. I highly doubt it is random.
I didn’t call it random. What’s your point?

It's not deflecting, it's thinking, "What the heck is Never Unlucky thinking?"
Thinking that stops you from answering my questions? Interesting.

I don't need to explain how you were attacking my posts, it's clear that you are.
I don’t see how using sarcasm and a critical approach is considered attacking. Enlighten me.
NOT ANSWERING

I have no idea what you expect of reads four hours into the game.
Unknown’s made his own list. That’s what I expect – of course they won’t be accurate, we’re early into the game. Your desire not to contribute has been noted though.
NOT ANSWERING

I made points on your case and you are marginalizing them.
Any half-witty person knows that those aren’t scum points; any half-witty person knows they were OMGUS points.

I don't have to explain how my first few posts would stir up conversation (the fact that it DID work is proof of that.
To quote myself, ‘There is no reason even a scum player would try to appear scummy to create conversation.’ You obviously ‘slipped in a way and called your slip an attempt to create conversation.
NOT ANSWERING

I explained how TDL's post was AI you just didn't read it.
I read it and replied to it, dummy. Effort =/= town. Nothing he’s posted was obvjectively AI.
DEFLECTING

I've answered Jack all the questions he has asked me that was worth answering.If you wish me to work further, I suggest that you pose some questions that can't be answered by me quoting my own posts.
You’re not in a position to act cocky, lmao.

Okay, it's your 4th game, in my mind, you are characterized as a noob. I know the game too. I highly doubt you are a better player than some players I will tag as 'veteran'.
All the answers you’re giving me are answers to questions that are irrelevant to the game. This was another instance of it.

There. I used your wording in hopes that your brain will understand what I have written. I've highlighted the next step if you wish to continue this conversation in a meaningful manner in orange.
Ouch, Eggy 2.0 throwing Shade on my intellect. My self-esteem is at an all-time low now.

[Never Unlucky]

Anyway I am pretty confident after reading these few pages that NU is actually scum. He is tunneling second passing for absloutley nothing from what I can see. I find it scummy to cling to something posted on the first page and try to paint it as a slip. I also dont think second passing is scummy whats so ever so as far as im concerned this arguement is TVT or its scum vs town with[COLOR="#00FF00"] NU being town.

Eggy's back with the headache-giving posts.

If you think I'm tunneling SP for no reason, I am inclined to think that you haven't fully read my posts. I've made some great points on Eggy 2.0's case, you cannot deny it. Also, how does tunneling = scum?

Clinging onto something posted on the first page is what Calix did to me in Politico -- Calix was town, I was scum. Invalid argument.


Mesk has not posted anything that reminds me of her normal town play and since I was scum with her last game I know her scum play pretty well. She normally contributes more than she has so far. And like unknown said. She hasnt even said her "always town stuff" I feel like NU could have jumped on Second passing to defend mesk since he had just voted her.

Mesk hardly ever contributes as town, lol. The time she's contributed the most was in Matrix 2.0... she was scum.

What makes you feel that way? I have in no way defended Mesk. I have had no interaction with Mesk so far, and I never even made allusion to SP's vote on Mesk in the whole SP - NU interaction. Never. You're making stuff up.

You're using pre-flip associations to justify your reads.


I feel like summarizing.

TDL-Town. (I know this isn't backed up a ton, but I'm not going to make up fake bullshit in my post so I'm going to wait until I can do my wall post stuff)

DarknessB- Town

Calix- Scum.

Never Unlucky- Town, but feels hostile towards everyone and uses odd scum-hunting techniques.

Mesk514- I like her the least.

Secondpassing- Under appreciated town who feels ignored.

Iced_Monopoly- Scum, feels like his regular "scum hiding under the radar" play.

Whoever the 10th person is I've missed so that is life. My read on Calix is mostly based on her lack of effort and the way she is playing. I will cover this later when I can. Darkness and TDL feel town, Mesk and Iced feel scum and Nu and Secondpassing don't feel terribly scummy to me, but I'm really in and out right now so I can sleep.
Your scum-reads are based on participation -- The game started during the night for Calix, Iced has some RL stuff to deal with. NAI this early.

[Never Unlucky]

NU, stop being a doorknob and aggravating people with your cockiness.


He used the doorknob insult! :O

Calling me cocky actually flattered me, lol.
I dont have a grudge with NU? I just think he is very good and this game I find him scummy for the reasons ive stated. From what i've seen day one slips are not really that much of a thing and
are usually used by scum to push a mislynch. Like what happened in instant mafia. I have no hard feelings towards NU I just dont like his playstyle. He has a way of discrediting things that strikes me as anti town

It's NAI though. It's my meta.

Strange change of opinion on me...


Jesus Christ, this formatting is cancerous. Is it really that hard to use the
function or at least separate your posts using colours or something?

I hope you noticed my new formatting, senpai. ^^


I find this hard to believe. Your early posts just look like you were wanting to post first more than anything else and I fail to see how your posts would have resulted in anything productive occurring.

Yay! Calix sheeped one of my arguments!


SecondPassing himself even admits he's salty so that leaves me with, why would Never Unlucky continue to push him on a dead point?

:facepalm: I'm pushing on different points -- saying I'm solely pushing him on this point is mischaracterizing the situation, Musk.


I've literally said this every fucking game but for fucks sakes, 35 posts into a game doesn't give you enough to make a full educated read on someone. And this is where I see Never Unlucky contradicting himself.
wat

Where did I say that my read was 100% confirmed? Eggy's said that, not me.


Never Unlucky calls out SecondPassing for wanting people to give some sort serious contribution to the game and says he's wanting "to lynch players based on RNG/personal stuff rather than leads. Day 1 there are no reads, so the only way to establish anything you have to engage in conversation. Therefore when Never Unlucky talks about contribution not needing to be quantity he's basically saying that a Town wouldn't feel the need to be super active and engaging in a game like this. Which seems odd.

Day 1 there are no reads? :facepalm:

It wasn't what I was implying at all.


which to be honest I believe it's more Eggy who would throw his team mates under the bus as opposed to them throwing him. That's been shown enough during Eggys previous scum plays.

Fuck no. In AI, Eggy voted Paladin instead of Gyrlander, his scum teammate when Gyrl was going to be lynched no matter what. In IC, Eggy town-read his scum-buddy MattZed, a player who hadn't posted, which confirmed that Kovath was the neutral.

[Never Unlucky]

Also, Calix, I commented on it mostly because it really isn't a good strategy for scum-hunting so I figured that commenting on it would be possibly a start to removing it.

And no, I did explain why I thought NU's posts wernt scummy, however I don't agree entirely with how they scum-read people. So I suppose it was a counter argument to their "they played like me when I was scum in POLITICO". They tried that on me last game as well and I ended up being town.

I used it as a scumhunting tool, but I never scum-read you that game. Remember, I was the only one who stood up for you knowing you were town. I don't base my scum-reads on other players solely based on my scumplay, fear not.

also, Never Unlucky

You didn't make any points on me, rofl.

Interesting that I'm at L-2 and the 4 players on the train have yet to make AI points on me.
You make a valid point.

Given that town has like, 4 mislynches (which is literally half the town lmao), then this is actually one of the better setups for a policy lynch. (although I'd only switch if we didn't have a better candidate near EOD, which is not currently the case) No sense in keeping someone around who will only distract players from pinpointing the real scum.

Are you suggesting PLing me? That sounds scummy AF. Scum would want to lynch a town and call it a "PL" or "for information" to justify it. That's what Iced is doing. We're 16 hours into the game, and he's already suggesting those types of lynches instead of scum-read lynches. I can't stress enough how scummy this is.

PL's should be only applicable to players whose behavior can be detrimental to the town (i.e. Mylo/lylo situations); I'm confident that doesn't apply to me.

[Calix]

However you choose to take these posts is up to you, but I know that scum!Iced_Monopoly has done this several times where he needs to post he is here but actually doesn't cover much. Like I said, I really wanted an overall opinion and I think these posts reflect more from a scum then a town.

So meta? Because I see nothing AI in those posts I quoted.


Strange change of opinion on me...

What about it catches you as strange? And what's your overall read on Eggy at the moment?

Yes, I have noticed your new formatting...in the same post where you revert back to an even more cancerous format.


Are you suggesting PLing me? That sounds scummy AF. Scum would want to lynch a town and call it a "PL" or "for information" to justify it. That's what Iced is doing. We're 16 hours into the game, and he's already suggesting those types of lynches instead of scum-read lynches. I can't stress enough how scummy this is.

PL's should be only applicable to players whose behavior can be detrimental to the town (i.e. Mylo/lylo situations); I'm confident that doesn't apply to me.

No, dumbass. After seeing me state a town-read on you and use one of your arguments and call out Iced for voting for someone he doesn't actually scum-read, you really need to borrow PTB's helmet if you think I'd do the same.

I was referring to 'switching' to a hypothetical policy-lynch target at EOD...which is currently no one because Spruance will probably get replaced by Kovath and everyone else has done something.

[Never Unlucky]

What about it catches you as strange? And what's your overall read on Eggy at the moment?

He called me 'very good' this game, yet he called me 'so bad' 19 hours ago:
You also pushed the lynch on your own sheriff D1 ahaha so bad :p you did worse than the begginers. Only reason you didnt get nightkilled instead of spruance is cus your an idiot and we knew we cud get you lynched lol and use you to help us win.

Right now I think and am fairly sure he's town.




Yes, I have noticed your new formatting...in the same post where you revert back to an even more cancerous format.

:P


No, dumbass. After seeing me state a town-read on you and use one of your arguments and call out Iced for voting for someone he doesn't actually scum-read, you really need to borrow PTB's helmet if you think I'd do the same.

I was referring to 'switching' to a hypothetical policy-lynch target at EOD...which is currently no one because Spruance will probably get replaced by Kovath and everyone else has done something.

:)

[Calix]

He called me 'very good' this game, yet he called me 'so bad' 19 hours ago:

Right now I think and am fairly sure he's town.

I hate to burst your bubble, but that was most likely another typo :)

[Spruance]

Spruance

Still feeling sick from that blow dart last game, Spruance. -_-

Orange juice helps with the pain.

[Spruance]

Has anyone else noticed mesk hasn't even said he was town once? Also he said that he is better than most veterans, which implies that he actually thinks that because he is scum and thinks he will go unnoticed.

Mesk514

[secondpassing]

I think his TDL read is based on an unwarranted level of confidence that is at odds with the reasoning he gave. Feels like he knows TDL's alignment and thus had an easier time doling out a read on it. Given that there are only two factions, scum have an easy time giving out town-reads as they know who the town are. Mind you, this assumes that TDL is town and I can't say I'm confident in that deduction whatsoever.

His reactive scum-read of NU was also terrible. I don't recall SP scum-reading anyone else or making much of an effort to scum-hunt, which scum would find difficult as they carry the guilt of being scum, so scum-reading someone pushing SP after they stated a scum-read on him = suspicious.
This is probably the best quote to quote. Calix has made multiple posts regarding me, but I fear I can't give her a good enough answer until after I get back.

Regarding townreading TDL, ~5 posts was enough to get me a read upon him. If he came back to post, then yes, I would develop my read accordingly.

I can understand why people would have thought it is baseless. But it's not. I based it on 5 posts. I gave an explanation. If you don't agree with the explanation, I don't really care at this point. I'm not pursuing pushing his towniness.

We can argue if TDL is town or not, but there are better things to do.

[Calix]

Has anyone else noticed mesk hasn't even said he was town once? Also he said that he is better than most veterans, which implies that he actually thinks that because he is scum and thinks he will go unnoticed.

Eggy raised that point already.

I believe NU made that veteran comment, not Mesk. Something along the lines of "I've only played four games but I'm not a noob" or some shit like that.

Question. How does saying "I'm better than most veterans" relate to anyone's alignment? I don't see how you think bragging about one's abilities would lead to 'thinking she'll go unnoticed'

[Never Unlucky]

Has anyone else noticed mesk hasn't even said he was town once? Also he said that he is better than most veterans, which implies that he actually thinks that because he is scum and thinks he will go unnoticed.

Mesk514

A) Yes, that 'Always town' point has been made.
B) Musk is a 'she'. She'll chew off your testicles if you ever call her a 'he' again.
C) Musk never said she was better than most veterans.
D) Claiming being better than others doesn't imply shit.

How do you read me and SP?

[secondpassing]

I'm also really liking Unknown1234 right now. In post 74? he uses the wording "under appreciated town". Which also has the meaning that I should-italics- be appreciated.

Why would scum want to give voice to another player? They don't. So Unknown is town.

[Calix]

This is probably the best quote to quote. Calix has made multiple posts regarding me, but I fear I can't give her a good enough answer until after I get back.

Regarding townreading TDL, ~5 posts was enough to get me a read upon him. If he came back to post, then yes, I would develop my read accordingly.

I can understand why people would have thought it is baseless. But it's not. I based it on 5 posts. I gave an explanation. If you don't agree with the explanation, I don't really care at this point. I'm not pursuing pushing his towniness.

We can argue if TDL is town or not, but there are better things to do.

So your response to me calling you out for being ridiculously confident in a read is to...just say that you explained the read in the thread? The issue isn't about clearing up WHY you town-read him. It's that you town-read him too strongly based on minor or NAI points and that said points are enough that you'd sheep him.

"I see your point of view but you're wrong." - Strong.

Ah yes, do enlighten us with what you intend on doing other than actually responding to the case against you.

[secondpassing]

Never Unlucky once again, you raise things I can answer most of your questions using either my post you quoted or another post I made.

The things I directly answer are ones that I haven't answered elsewhere. Sure they are less important things, but that was the nature of the question you asked me.

[Calix]

SP's latest post just reminded me of what I was going to add...


His reactive scum-read of NU was also terrible. I don't recall SP scum-reading anyone else or making much of an effort to scum-hunt, which scum would find difficult as they carry the guilt of being scum, so scum-reading someone pushing SP after they stated a scum-read on him = suspicious.

SP didn't respond to this point about his reactive scum-reading of a player who scum-read him first.


I'm also really liking Unknown1234 right now. In post 74? he uses the wording "under appreciated town". Which also has the meaning that I should-italics- be appreciated.

Why would scum want to give voice to another player? They don't. So Unknown is town.

He then gives out a town-read to a player who seems to be agreeing with him.

I sense a pattern of reactive play and self-serving reads here.

[TheDarkestLight]

I'm also really liking Unknown1234 right now. In post 74? he uses the wording "under appreciated town". Which also has the meaning that I should-italics- be appreciated.

Why would scum want to give voice to another player? They don't. So Unknown is town.

Pointing out the flaws of this post cause I just got on and I saw the most recent post first.

Well... you basically say he said "you" should be appreciated. That seems like you town read him simply for town reading you, and you use that as an excuse and claim it's not buddying by saying a scum wouldn't ever try to give voice to a town player. That's simply not the case, scum give out town reads to... you know... blend in with other town players? I'm not particularly fond of you at this point, I have to agree with those questioning your town read of me, as from my point of view my initial posts were mostly just dicking around and saying my usual dislike of town blocs. I mean, maybe you can get something AI from my talk about town blocs, but ehhh... still seems questionable.

[secondpassing]

So your response to me calling you out for being ridiculously confident in a read is to...just say that you explained the read in the thread? The issue isn't about clearing up WHY you town-read him. It's that you town-read him too strongly based on minor or NAI points and that said points are enough that you'd sheep him.

"I see your point of view but you're wrong." - Strong.

Ah yes, do enlighten us with what you intend on doing other than actually responding to the case against you.
I'm going to wait until I have a computer to quote quotes and respond in a more complete way.

If that means quoting my own posts again (I suspect it will be), it will be tedious. And annoying. And probably could be cleared up if players just followed the conversation between me and Never Unlucky.

[Calix]

I'm going to wait until I have a computer to quote quotes and respond in a more complete way.

If that means quoting my own posts again (I suspect it will be), it will be tedious. And annoying. And probably could be cleared up if players just followed the conversation between me and Never Unlucky.

Do you have an ETA for that? I might decide to collect all of my points into one post to make sure you don't miss anything depending on that.

[Never Unlucky]

Regarding townreading TDL, ~5 posts was enough to get me a read upon him. If he came back to post, then yes, I would develop my read accordingly. [Quote]

You are contradicting yourself. You told me [Quote]I have no idea what you expect of reads four hours into the game. in your previous post, implying that there wasn't enough content to base your reads off early into the game. Yet, you say that TDL's 5 posts (which were objectively NAI) were enough for you to town-read him. Contradiction.


We can argue if TDL is town or not, but there are better things to do.

>Says there are better things to do.
>Does nothing else (Doesn't develop any of the 'better' leads.)

Legit and nice way of ending your post.

Also, I made two wall-posts regarding you, do not ignore them.

[Never Unlucky]

Never Unlucky once again, you raise things I can answer most of your questions using either my post you quoted or another post I made.

The things I directly answer are ones that I haven't answered elsewhere. Sure they are less important things, but that was the nature of the question you asked me.

Your answers were literally, "I don't want to answer this question now". You answered nothing, nothing and nothing.


I'm also really liking Unknown1234 right now. In post 74? he uses the wording "under appreciated town". Which also has the meaning that I should-italics- be appreciated.

Why would scum want to give voice to another player? They don't. So Unknown is town.

"He town-reads me, I town-read him."

"NU scum-reads me, I'll vote him and scum-read him."

[secondpassing]

SP's latest post just reminded me of what I was going to add...



SP didn't respond to this point about his reactive scum-reading of a player who scum-read him first.



He then gives out a town-read to a player who seems to be agreeing with him.

I sense a pattern of reactive play and self-serving reads here.
First paragraph. I haven't interacted with all the players in the game because they logged on after I had logged off. Null point.

I scum read NU for scum reading me due to the way he did it. He hasn't been trying to find the meanings in my post (notable example is the characterization I made of our conversation, he completely missed the point).

Second point will come in a post right below this one.

[secondpassing]

I don't see what is wrong with town reading a player that is not only agreeing with me, but also giving strength to my voice. This serves towns goals.

[Never Unlucky]

This is annoying. What makes you believe comparing people to you do anything in regards to scum-hunting?

Honestly, I don't like this post. You tried this strategy last game when you said "Unknown is playing the same way I did when I was scum in POLITICO" it's actually a poor attempt at scum-hunting by comparing others to yourself in argument with a scum-read.
Yes, I used similar arguments in IC, and my reads were accurate in that game.


And your vote isn't RVS. I highly doubt it is random.
I didn’t call it random. What’s your point?

It's not deflecting, it's thinking, "What the heck is Never Unlucky thinking?"
Thinking that stops you from answering my questions? Interesting.

I don't need to explain how you were attacking my posts, it's clear that you are.
I don’t see how using sarcasm and a critical approach is considered attacking. Enlighten me.
NOT ANSWERING

I have no idea what you expect of reads four hours into the game.
Unknown’s made his own list. That’s what I expect – of course they won’t be accurate, we’re early into the game. Your desire not to contribute has been noted though.
NOT ANSWERING

I made points on your case and you are marginalizing them.
Any half-witty person knows that those aren’t scum points; any half-witty person knows they were OMGUS points.

I don't have to explain how my first few posts would stir up conversation (the fact that it DID work is proof of that.
To quote myself, ‘There is no reason even a scum player would try to appear scummy to create conversation.’ You obviously ‘slipped in a way and called your slip an attempt to create conversation.
NOT ANSWERING

I explained how TDL's post was AI you just didn't read it.
I read it and replied to it, dummy. Effort =/= town. Nothing he’s posted was obvjectively AI.
DEFLECTING

I've answered Jack all the questions he has asked me that was worth answering.If you wish me to work further, I suggest that you pose some questions that can't be answered by me quoting my own posts.
You’re not in a position to act cocky, lmao.

Okay, it's your 4th game, in my mind, you are characterized as a noob. I know the game too. I highly doubt you are a better player than some players I will tag as 'veteran'.
All the answers you’re giving me are answers to questions that are irrelevant to the game. This was another instance of it.

There. I used your wording in hopes that your brain will understand what I have written. I've highlighted the next step if you wish to continue this conversation in a meaningful manner in orange.
Ouch, Eggy 2.0 throwing Shade on my intellect. My self-esteem is at an all-time low now.

This is a re-post of me proving you don't answer shit. No one can agree with you in the 'I answered everything, he doesn't read me' narrative.

[TheDarkestLight]

I don't see what is wrong with town reading a player that is not only agreeing with me, but also giving strength to my voice. This serves towns goals.

It gives the appearance of buddying. Makes me think you two have some sort of connection because really... your read is based completely off of his read of you.

[Calix]

First paragraph. I haven't interacted with all the players in the game because they logged on after I had logged off. Null point.

I scum read NU for scum reading me due to the way he did it. He hasn't been trying to find the meanings in my post (notable example is the characterization I made of our conversation, he completely missed the point).

Second point will come in a post right below this one.

I'll expect examples with quotes when you get that computer of yours then.


I don't see what is wrong with town reading a player that is not only agreeing with me, but also giving strength to my voice. This serves towns goals.

You do realise that the only players who KNOW that anyone is town are the scum, right? Trusting someone who town-reads you doesn't mesh with a town mindset to me because townies are naturally suspicious of each other. If you were mind-melding then it would make sense but you're not.

[Never Unlucky]

I scum read NU for scum reading me due to the way he did it. He hasn't been trying to find the meanings in my post (notable example is the characterization I made of our conversation, he completely missed the point).

Again admitting voting along the OMGUS lines.

Banalizing his interaction with me.

THrowing shade on me.

Thinking his posts have meaning. ("Effort=town, lurking=scum, happy=town, etc")

I don't see what is wrong with town reading a player that is not only agreeing with me, but also giving strength to my voice. This serves towns goals.

I can agree to an extent that Unknown's comment had town motivation behind it. However, it is wrong for you to town-read him for this. You are scum-reading who pressures you and town-reading who town-reads you -- Playing in a self-centered manner is a scum-tell.

SP NEEDS MORE VOTES.

[DarknessB]

Catching up now -- will post reactions to quotes as I read them.

[DarknessB]

I don't see what is wrong with town reading a player that is not only agreeing with me, but also giving strength to my voice. This serves towns goals.

There are so many problems with this, it's making my head spin. Town-reading someone merely because they agree with you / back up your point of view is shortsighted at best, if not scummy. So many possibilities how it might go wrong -- you might be scum and attempting to pocket or buddy them. They might be scum and attempting to pocket / buddy you. You might both be wrong and blindly feeding off each other in a direction that harms the Town. The goal isn't to find likeminded people and band together for the sole reason because you agree with each other. The goal is to figure out who the scum are and lynch them. You're conflating agreeing with someone with being helpful to the Town.

Lastly, you shouldn't be dependent on someone else "giving strength to your voice" -- if you're convinced that you're right about NU, for example, then go ISO his posts and push him.

[DarknessB]

I'll expect examples with quotes when you get that computer of yours then.



You do realise that the only players who KNOW that anyone is town are the scum, right? Trusting someone who town-reads you doesn't mesh with a town mindset to me because townies are naturally suspicious of each other. If you were mind-melding then it would make sense but you're not.

A part of me fears that SP is just playing bizarrely (as opposed to being scum) with his kooky "soup of the day" type approach to FM strategy. For example, when he chose to mimic Sen's "ignore people" in Gyrlander's game and got lynched Day 1 as Town. Thoughts on that possibility?

[DarknessB]

It gives the appearance of buddying. Makes me think you two have some sort of connection because really... your read is based completely off of his read of you.

This hits the nail on the head. If SP had an independent Townread of Unknown based on Unknown's posts themselves, that would make far more sense. There's no reason you can't Townread someone that Townreads you -- the problem is the WHY question. The fact that the read is purely motivated by Unknown Townreading SP seems potentially opportunistic / survivalistic, which I don't like.

[Calix]

A part of me fears that SP is just playing bizarrely (as opposed to being scum) with his kooky "soup of the day" type approach to FM strategy. For example, when he chose to mimic Sen's "ignore people" in Gyrlander's game and got lynched Day 1 as Town. Thoughts on that possibility?

That depends on wherever he claims to be imitating a specific playstyle this game. Does he still do that?

I don't think that explains some of the discrepancies I found in his posts, however, and it doesn't excuse sidelining points against him. (although he says he's going to respond in full so we'll see wherever that point holds up)

[DarknessB]

[QUOTE=secondpassing;632890]
Regarding townreading TDL, ~5 posts was enough to get me a read upon him. If he came back to post, then yes, I would develop my read accordingly. [Quote]

You are contradicting yourself. You told me in your previous post, implying that there wasn't enough content to base your reads off early into the game. Yet, you say that TDL's 5 posts (which were objectively NAI) were enough for you to town-read him. Contradiction.



>Says there are better things to do.
>Does nothing else (Doesn't develop any of the 'better' leads.)

Legit and nice way of ending your post.

Also, I made two wall-posts regarding you, do not ignore them.

This point by NU resonates a lot with me. Just seems like SP is a bit slippery with his explanations of why he has done things in this game. Goes back to his initial two votes on Calix and then Mesk. I thought it was pretty obvious both were RVS in nature, but then he oddly doubled down on the Calix vote being legitimate because he Townread TDL, leading to the question of "why limit your votes to only the people who had votes on them".

Same with this point and SP suggesting that his initial wallpost should be ignored, but then later defending it as a bona fide Town read on TDL. Just seems to be a lot of internal dissonance in SP's posts in the moment and then later explanation of what he was doing / thinking.

[DarknessB]

Has anyone else noticed mesk hasn't even said he was town once? Also he said that he is better than most veterans, which implies that he actually thinks that because he is scum and thinks he will go unnoticed.

Mesk514

The lack of a "Town proclamation" by Mesk has been noted by several other players and it's odd to me that she hasn't responded head-on to that point yet. I don't put much stock into the rest of your point about veterans and thinking you're better than another player. Pretty sure that bluster was mostly Eggy vs. NU anyway.

[DarknessB]

Mesk has not posted alot but she is my strongest scum read. Her play seems very off from what she normally does. She has not even said she is town yet. Maybe because she was scum last game so she knows people will question it. I still think thst a scum read is not based off of activity but more individual posts.

I agree that Mesk has been a little more quiet so far, but what do you mean "off from what she normally does"? I think she's been a little less trolly to start the game for sure. When she has rolled Town in the past, she has enjoyed soft-claiming on Day 1 (think of fans or elders, etc.). Can't really do that in this type of a game though since there are literally two roles in the setup.

[DarknessB]

Well, your argument isn't very strong so I hope you could see why I would believe you had a grudge against him. That and the "I don't like him"

Anyways moving on from that, you say his posts "discredit in a way that strikes me as anti-town" how is discrediting anti-town, or why is his different. I feel that NU has a hostile way of playing, which I don't agree with either, but I definitely think it's NAI. He did it in IC as well.

This is a fair observation vs. NU given he had tunneled me very hard in IC to begin that game when he was Town. Then, he did the same to Simple Joy later on as well. I wouldn't regard hostile pushing of someone as AI, but more of a playstyle point.

[DarknessB]

Im about to unvote never unlucky. Think im wrong about him. I dont trust the people who are on his train. I suggest we all vote mesk for a guaranteed successful lynch.

Something that pings me oddly about this post is that Eggy apparently already has such a strong read on the NU voters that it would inform his own opinion on whether NU is scum or not. Just seems very early in the game to be doing the equivalent of VCA, especially as everyone is still developing their reads. Also, I agree that Mesk is acting oddly to start this game, but characterizing her as a "guaranteed successful lynch"? There just hasn't been enough content from her to conclude that, in my view at least. This might be an Eggy tone / confidence point, but I'm not a fan personally.

[DarknessB]

Im warning people do not push NU based off who is voting him im pretty sure he is town right now.(sorry for leading this train NU) it was not warranted. he definately should not be the lynch for today. If he is im pretty sure that all 3 people who are voting him right now is the scum team(or atleast 2 of them) which would be really stupid on their part but I cant say I would be suprised.

While I currently have a mild Townread on NU myself, Eggy strong defense of him sticks out as being odd. Eggy, can you please explain why you thought each of the people voting on NU were suspect? You've made this point a couple of times, but never really gone into any detail on the NU train people. Yes, I understand that you don't want your Townreads lynched, but the defense here seems far stronger than one backed up by just that, and unusually vocal for this point in the game.

[DarknessB]

Spruance, I see you in the thread. Can you give some thoughts on Mesk, Eggy, the NU vs. SP posts, etc.? I think you've basically just placed your vote on Mesk and haven't said anything else, if I'm not mistaken.

[Unknown1234]

Eggy is sheeping my comments now. Sorry I don't have much time but I remember earlier he was trying to suck up to me, but now he's copying what I've said which is similar to what he did in IC.

[Unknown1234]

Calix, my idea was to make a read on everyone, without the stupid Null stuff. I found more scum motivation opposed to town motivation, I literally have 0 time and I'm not making up crap excuses and atleast contributing to an extent. Iced's doing what he did in previous games and saying that it's acceptable to not do anything.

[Calix]

Calix, my idea was to make a read on everyone, without the stupid Null stuff. I found more scum motivation opposed to town motivation, I literally have 0 time and I'm not making up crap excuses and atleast contributing to an extent. Iced's doing what he did in previous games and saying that it's acceptable to not do anything.

That's all nice and dandy, but you're missing one thing.

Where the fuck is your vote?

[Unknown1234]

Again admitting voting along the OMGUS lines.

Banalizing his interaction with me.

THrowing shade on me.

Thinking his posts have meaning. ("Effort=town, lurking=scum, happy=town, etc")


I can agree to an extent that Unknown's comment had town motivation behind it. However, it is wrong for you to town-read him for this. You are scum-reading who pressures you and town-reading who town-reads you -- Playing in a self-centered manner is a scum-tell.

SP NEEDS MORE VOTES.

Your entire argument is based off of NAI stuff, and then you try to turn it against me.

OMGUS isn't something only scum does, I literally did this last game. We aren't the same people, but my point is you are relying on textbook ideas and making it seem scummy.

Throwing shade is NAI, it's a personality thing.

That's just a massive discredit.

NU, I don't know why you are so desperate to get an early lynch. You are trying too hard to be the best, and it honestly just works against you.

[Spruance]

Spruance's too-early-to-matter reads list

TOWN
Spruance
DarknessB
secondpassing
Unknown1234

LESS TOWN
Mesk514
Eggy

DAY 1 LYNCH POOL
TheDarkestLight
Never Unlucky
Calix
Iced_Monopoly

gg 2 ez

[Unknown1234]

That's all nice and dandy, but you're missing one thing.

Where the fuck is your vote?

I'm doing perfectly fine without one, and I'll vote when I need to.

[Spruance]

TheDarkestLight

#first name in lynch pool

[Calix]

Spruance's too-early-to-matter reads list

TOWN
Spruance
DarknessB
secondpassing
Unknown1234

LESS TOWN
Mesk514
Eggy

DAY 1 LYNCH POOL
TheDarkestLight
Never Unlucky
Calix
Iced_Monopoly

gg 2 ez

Ah yes, if it isn't the wonderful Spruance reads list.

No scum-reads, eh?

[Spruance]

Ah yes, if it isn't the wonderful Spruance reads list.

No scum-reads, eh?

Day 1 Lynch List = scum reads obv

[Unknown1234]

TheDarkestLight

#first name in lynch pool

I guess now we have to ask you this, but why is he in your lynch pool?

[Spruance]

I guess now we have to ask you this, but why is he in your lynch pool?

He failed his drug test.

[Calix]

Day 1 Lynch List = scum reads obv

I'm commenting on the fact that you usually call them "SCUM READS" yet you've chosen to rename that category. Why?

And I'm only caring about this because asking you to explain your reads is like yanking a limpet off a rock.

[Spruance]

I'm commenting on the fact that you usually call them "SCUM READS" yet you've chosen to rename that category. Why?

And I'm only caring about this because asking you to explain your reads is like yanking a limpet off a rock.

idk if renaming a category makes me scum then vote me lmao

[Unknown1234]

He failed his drug test.

So I take it your entire scum team is weak.

[Spruance]

So I take it your entire scum team is weak.

It was a joke bruh

[Calix]

He failed his drug test.

Fuck's sake mate, can you just stop posting so that someone who actually talks replaces you? -_-

[Unknown1234]

I'm out for a bit, feel free to ping me.

[Spruance]

Fuck's sake mate, can you just stop posting so that someone who actually talks replaces you? -_-

I'm going to say it I just need some time -_-

[Calix]

idk if renaming a category makes me scum then vote me lmao

Where did I say it made you scum? I just asked about a variation in how you 'play' - which you can answer at any time, hun.

[Spruance]

Where did I say it made you scum? I just asked about a variation in how you 'play' - which you can answer at any time, hun.

I don't consider it relevant? I renamed it to make it more clear who we should lynch.

[Spruance]

TDL - fake votes Calix, asks why someone thinks he is town (Hanzo did that to me!), keeps vote on Calix, tries to keep attention off himself even though there is no night kill, seems to have a team scum agenda.

[Calix]

I don't consider it relevant? I renamed it to make it more clear who we should lynch.

Let us know when you actually want to like, convince people of why we should follow you.

While I wait for old age in the meanwhile, anything else in the thread that caught your eye and if so, what?

[Calix]

TDL - fake votes Calix, asks why someone thinks he is town (Hanzo did that to me!), keeps vote on Calix, tries to keep attention off himself even though there is no night kill, seems to have a team scum agenda.

Holy shit, an actual substantial post. I think I need to sit down for a moment.

What do you mean by 'fake-voting' me? That usually refers to using red/ bold text so clarification is good here.

The vote is a semi-decent point, although might be TDL being a lethargic voter. Not so sure wherever activity is AI right now but if it continues then it's something to pay attention to.

[Spruance]

Let us know when you actually want to like, convince people of why we should follow you.

While I wait for old age in the meanwhile, anything else in the thread that caught your eye and if so, what?

I don't see that ever happening so I just type out my observations and vote who I think is mafia lol.


You haven't been leading as much as you usually do. Also you really only put pressure on secondpassing.

[TheDarkestLight]

TDL - fake votes Calix, asks why someone thinks he is town (Hanzo did that to me!), keeps vote on Calix, tries to keep attention off himself even though there is no night kill, seems to have a team scum agenda.

Care to show me where this is sir? I don't recall this at all. If it was in reference to me talking about SP then you've surely misunderstood something.

[secondpassing]

Funny enough, Spruance's list for lynches is the same as mine right now.

[secondpassing]

I think we found all the scrum.

[TheDarkestLight]

Funny enough, Spruance's list for lynches is the same as mine right now.

I like the change of tone in regards to me after you get confronted for having a weak read on me. Really shows town motivation.

[Calix]

I don't see that ever happening so I just type out my observations and vote who I think is mafia lol.


You haven't been leading as much as you usually do. Also you really only put pressure on secondpassing.

Meta reads. Strong. I'm not particularly in the mood to lead right now as I am unwell and my tolerance for sickness = 0. You can expect that to pick up from Day 2 as it's supposed to blow over in a day or so.

SP made a logical gap between his read and his reasoning; something which is a reliable scum tell and which I would lynch based on that. The fact that he has yet to counter this point only reinforces that.

[Spruance]

Care to show me where this is sir? I don't recall this at all. If it was in reference to me talking about SP then you've surely misunderstood something.

ARRRGHHHHH pirates don't change their minds.

[secondpassing]

I like the change of tone in regards to me after you get confronted for having a weak read on me. Really shows town motivation.
Oh yeah. I added you to the lynch list after coming back and posting not as much as I expected.

[TheDarkestLight]

ARRRGHHHHH pirates don't change their minds.

Strong arguments. I am utterly helpless to defend myself from your profound arguments.

[Calix]

Funny enough, Spruance's list for lynches is the same as mine right now.

I second TDL. You said his 5 posts were enough to make a town-read, yet you support Spruance's list where he lists TDL as scum. Which one is it?

I also like that you can't be arsed to use your own words to communicate your scum-reads unless they push you. NU, TDL and myself have all pushed or criticised you to an extent.

[Calix]

Oh yeah. I added you to the lynch list after coming back and posting not as much as I expected.

Contribution =/= alignment.

[secondpassing]

I second TDL. You said his 5 posts were enough to make a town-read, yet you support Spruance's list where he lists TDL as scum. Which one is it?

I also like that you can't be arsed to use your own words to communicate your scum-reads unless they push you. NU, TDL and myself have all pushed or criticised you to an extent.
I can't remember why Spruance said TDL was scum. I would now be willing to lynch TDL based on coming back and posting very little.

The only bit he did post was the shade he threw onto me.

[secondpassing]

I read Calix as scum for the obvious support of Never Unlucky.

"Something something makes strong points against sp. Town." -- as said by Calix.

[TheDarkestLight]

I can't remember why Spruance said TDL was scum. I would now be willing to lynch TDL based on coming back and posting very little.

The only bit he did post was the shade he threw onto me.

So... I got this so far...

1: People who town read you are town, see Unknown.
2: People who scum read you are scum, see everyone that called you out.

[secondpassing]

So... I got this so far...

1: People who town read you are town, see Unknown.
2: People who scum read you are scum, see everyone that called you out.
Basically the scum outed themselves day one yes.

[secondpassing]

Exception for Iced. Okay back to work.

[TheDarkestLight]

secondpassing

I'm content with this. Scummy or just sheer bad. Which is unfortunately such a common thing that comes up in regards to scum reading people, but oh well.

[Calix]

I can't remember why Spruance said TDL was scum. I would now be willing to lynch TDL based on coming back and posting very little.

The only bit he did post was the shade he threw onto me.

You're slipping so hard you'll be outdoing Paladin in the Hall of Fame. Anyone who scum-reads you becomes suspect and whoever agrees with you is town? lmao

You don't remember the reasoning that you supposedly agree with. Right.

Can everyone on the NU train pull their head out of their arse and vote for this instead?

[TheDarkestLight]

Basically the scum outed themselves day one yes.

So the game revolves around you? Christ. You think all the scum will out themselves by all simultaneously pushing you? How fucking self centered can you get?

[Calix]

I read Calix as scum for the obvious support of Never Unlucky.

"Something something makes strong points against sp. Town." -- as said by Calix.

Pre-flip associations and scum-reading a player who supports one of your vocal accusers.


Basically the scum outed themselves day one yes.

You sound like Mikecall when he was Executioner.

"FUCK YEAH THE ENTIRE SCUM TEAM RANDOM-VOTED ME IN THE FIRST 20 POSTS"

[secondpassing]

A part of me fears that SP is just playing bizarrely (as opposed to being scum) with his kooky "soup of the day" type approach to FM strategy. For example, when he chose to mimic Sen's "ignore people" in Gyrlander's game and got lynched Day 1 as Town. Thoughts on that possibility?
Last thoughts:
Emulated Sen. Caught all scum day one. Gets lynched day one. S-FM World of Music.

This game I took a page from MS for like ten minutes. Then proceeded with my usual

[Calix]

Exception for Iced. Okay back to work.

Why are you voting with your scum-read?

Why does the fact that Iced is voting for NU not give you pause with your reads?

[TheDarkestLight]

Why are you voting with your scum-read?

Why does the fact that Iced is voting for NU not give you pause with your reads?

Obviously cause Iced is voting for someone voting him.

I almost want to go into conspiracy theory mode and say they seem to have a connection, but not sure if that's the case.

[Spruance]

TDL - secondpassing is scummy or just plain bad, either way we should lynch him.

You're not helping yourself TDL!

[Calix]

TDL - secondpassing is scummy or just plain bad, either way we should lynch him.

You're not helping yourself TDL!

Before you continue attacking SP's accusers, why do you town-read him again?

[TheDarkestLight]

TDL - secondpassing is scummy or just plain bad, either way we should lynch him.

You're not helping yourself TDL!

K. It's unfortunate because the "scummy or bad" thing can literally be applied to almost every scum read that's ever existed.

[Spruance]

Before you continue attacking SP's accusers, why do you town-read him again?

Because he didn't fail his drug test rofl

[Calix]

Because he didn't fail his drug test rofl

Talking to you makes me understand why mothers drown their children.

[secondpassing]

Why are you voting with your scum-read?

Why does the fact that Iced is voting for NU not give you pause with your reads?
Didn't consider it.

Something else is giving me pause right now. Though I will take it up with someone else. I will tell you if it is resolved.

[Calix]

Didn't consider it.

Something else is giving me pause right now. Though I will take it up with someone else. I will tell you if it is resolved.

wut

I am too tired for this cryptic nonsense around your READS, of all things.

[secondpassing]

wut

I am too tired for this cryptic nonsense around your READS, of all things.
You don't need to understand this post. In fact, I probably shouldn't have posted it.

You'll get a second reply regardless.

[Calix]

You don't need to understand this post. In fact, I probably shouldn't have posted it.

You'll get a second reply regardless.

Well wouldn't we know if you 'took it up with someone else' as it would be in the thread...?

There is literally no reason to be evasive about the details of your Iced/ NU read...of which you have not told us about.

[Calix]

You are being weirdly secretive over reads in a setup where there is no benefit to doing so.

[secondpassing]

Well wouldn't we know if you 'took it up with someone else' as it would be in the thread...?

There is literally no reason to be evasive about the details of your Iced/ NU read...of which you have not told us about.
Okay fine. I sent the host a question, and I shouldn't have made a post about it. I'm waiting until he answers my question.

You act like my read on Iced is special. Its not. He posted after I went to bed. I woke up, read his post, and passed judgment upon it.

[secondpassing]

So the game revolves around you? Christ. You think all the scum will out themselves by all simultaneously pushing you? How fucking self centered can you get?
This game is revolving around me right now, I'm the center of discussion. If you think the scrum won't out themselves by simultaneously pushing me, where are they?

Anything else to add about the thread?

[Calix]

Okay fine. I sent the host a question, and I shouldn't have made a post about it. I'm waiting until he answers my question.

You act like my read on Iced is special. Its not. He posted after I went to bed. I woke up, read his post, and passed judgment upon it.

So how does that question relate to anything about your reads then? It's a vanilla setup.

I asked why Iced voting for NU wasn't giving you pause. You responded by saying that something else was - that clearly has some link with your Iced read because why would you bring it up in your answer otherwise?


This game is revolving around me right now, I'm the center of discussion. If you think the scrum won't out themselves by simultaneously pushing me, where are they?

Anything else to add about the thread?

Today in 'that's not how that works'

Scum do not all act like robots who push the exact same players, nor are they prone to hogging the spotlight just so they can lynch one player, especially on Day 1.

Try again.

[TheDarkestLight]

This game is revolving around me right now, I'm the center of discussion. If you think the scrum won't out themselves by simultaneously pushing me, where are they?

Anything else to add about the thread?

... Holy fuck. Even if you were focus of the discussion you really think the Mafia would all fucking scumread you and reveal themselves?

[secondpassing]

... Holy fuck. Even if you were focus of the discussion you really think the Mafia would all fucking scumread you and reveal themselves?
Considering how long, on average, I am alive in mafia games: yes.

Answer to the second question?

[Calix]

SP, are you at a computer yet? Are you working on that response of yours?

I want to sleep so if you are, get a move on, thx

[TheDarkestLight]

Considering how long, on average, I am alive in mafia games: yes.

Answer to the second question?

The second question is irrelevant at the moment since you are the current focus of discussion. I am though, interested in your affiliation with Iced. It's perhaps pushing it but it seems like a possible connection there.

And... that assumes the scum think you're some super high priority target that must be taken out asap.

Sorry, but I don't think anyone here thinks you are that level of player.

[Never Unlucky]

Your entire argument is based off of NAI stuff, and then you try to turn it against me.

Those weren't points I was making on SP, those were points criticizing his last post. My case on SP is not based on NAI stuff.


OMGUS isn't something only scum does, I literally did this last game. We aren't the same people, but my point is you are relying on textbook ideas and making it seem scummy.

I didn't say that OMGUS voting made SP scum necessarily. I said that the fact that he bases his reads on others' reads makes him appear scummy.


Throwing shade is NAI, it's a personality thing.

Throwing shade is AI. zzz


That's just a massive discredit.


Oh, so you agree that 'Lurking = scum', 'Effort = Town', 'happy = town' and 'posting = town'? Probably not.
Yes, it is a discredit. A very needed one.


NU, I don't know why you are so desperate to get an early lynch. You are trying too hard to be the best, and it honestly just works against you.

You've seen me being desperate in previous games (IC and Politico). I am nowhere near this state of mind, I do not understand where you're coming from with this affirmation. I'm also not supporting an early lynch, obviously.

Err, I'm not sure how my posts make you think that I'm trying the best. LMAO XD, sorry.

[Never Unlucky]

Spruance's too-early-to-matter reads list

Marginalizing your own reads. Politicoscum!NeverUnlucky says hi.


TOWN
Spruance
DarknessB
secondpassing
Unknown1234

LESS TOWN
Mesk514
Eggy

DAY 1 LYNCH POOL
TheDarkestLight
Never Unlucky
Calix
Iced_Monopoly

gg 2 ez

Explain your position on SP and myself.
I don't see that ever happening so I just type out my observations and vote who I think is mafia lol.


You haven't been leading as much as you usually do. Also you really only put pressure on secondpassing.
Calix hasn't put pressure on SP, but k.

Funny enough, Spruance's list for lynches is the same as mine right now.

You suddenly scum-read TDL! Waouh-ya!

Why? Because he had an interaction with you?

I suppose you now town-read Spruance too seeing as he town-reads you.
I can't remember why Spruance said TDL was scum. I would now be willing to lynch TDL based on coming back and posting very little.

The only bit he did post was the shade he threw onto me.

As I, DB and Calix said -- Contribution =/= Alignment.


I read Calix as scum for the obvious support of Never Unlucky.

"Something something makes strong points against sp. Town." -- as said by Calix.

You mean because she supports the case I made on you, right?
Talking to you makes me understand why mothers drown their children.

Booooo...

[Never Unlucky]

1. Calix
2. DarknessB
3. Eggy
4. Iced_Monopoly
5. Mesk514
6. Never Unlucky
7. Spruance
8. TheDarkestLight
9. Unknown1234
10. secondpassing

1. Typical Calix, nothing pinged me weird. Nothing to add.
Calix, please don't call others 'hun'. I want this to be my exclusive special name ;_;

2. Logical posts made in an attempt to scum-hunt/pressure. However, DB's tone feels distant/neutral. His posts feel objective and lack opinion IMO. He hasn't given his reads on SP with whom he's had a substantial interaction.
His tone in IC felt way more engaged -- maybe it's because Spruance had shot him, and he got salty. If not, perhaps he's being a cautious town. Either way, I'm keeping a reserve on my DB read.

3. It's purely gut. I tend to read Eggy correctly, and I do not feel like he's scum this time around from the few posts he's made. He could be trying to evade conversation with me so that I cannot read him, but I doubt this because he voted me in RVS.

4. Really disliked how he suggested a policy lynch ~6 hours into the game. As I said, that's most likely what scum would want to do this game -- lynch someone and call it a PL. I'm also questioning his motives to put me at L-2. No one on my train made a case on me, so his vote is pretty suspicious.

5. Pretty much what everyone said about her -- Didn't soft-claim, didn't claim being town.
I also pointed out that her pre-defense looked like the typical scum pre-defense. This is one of the scum-tells that never lies.

6. /

7. Purely based on meta since his posts are garbage. In Politico, a game in which he was scum, he was always acting defensive and he cared. So far he hasn't done that.

8. His latest post, in my eyes, didn't bring anything new on the table. I have the feeling that he's sheeping the leading trend.

9. LMAO XD, sorry. Really don't have a read on him yet.

10. Lazy. Read my other posts. I don't like that TDL's vote is on him.
Possibility of being a (very) stupid town?

[TheDarkestLight]

1. Calix
2. DarknessB
3. Eggy
4. Iced_Monopoly
5. Mesk514
6. Never Unlucky
7. Spruance
8. TheDarkestLight
9. Unknown1234
10. secondpassing

1. Typical Calix, nothing pinged me weird. Nothing to add.
Calix, please don't call others 'hun'. I want this to be my exclusive special name ;_;

2. Logical posts made in an attempt to scum-hunt/pressure. However, DB's tone feels distant/neutral. His posts feel objective and lack opinion IMO. He hasn't given his reads on SP with whom he's had a substantial interaction.
His tone in IC felt way more engaged -- maybe it's because Spruance had shot him, and he got salty. If not, perhaps he's being a cautious town. Either way, I'm keeping a reserve on my DB read.

3. It's purely gut. I tend to read Eggy correctly, and I do not feel like he's scum this time around from the few posts he's made. He could be trying to evade conversation with me so that I cannot read him, but I doubt this because he voted me in RVS.

4. Really disliked how he suggested a policy lynch ~6 hours into the game. As I said, that's most likely what scum would want to do this game -- lynch someone and call it a PL. I'm also questioning his motives to put me at L-2. No one on my train made a case on me, so his vote is pretty suspicious.

5. Pretty much what everyone said about her -- Didn't soft-claim, didn't claim being town.
I also pointed out that her pre-defense looked like the typical scum pre-defense. This is one of the scum-tells that never lies.

6. /

7. Purely based on meta since his posts are garbage. In Politico, a game in which he was scum, he was always acting defensive and he cared. So far he hasn't done that.

8. His latest post, in my eyes, didn't bring anything new on the table. I have the feeling that he's sheeping the leading trend.

9. LMAO XD, sorry. Really don't have a read on him yet.

10. Lazy. Read my other posts. I don't like that TDL's vote is on him.
Possibility of being a (very) stupid town?

If nothing strikes you as weird about Calix why town read her? Wouldn't Null be more accurate?

Spruance is fucking 100% town in your eyes? What? You even openly admit it to be meta.

And... I haven't added anything new? Alright then. Nice to know you are skimming.

I also like how you seem to think I'm teamed with SP. Care to explain to me how that works?

[Mesk514]

since this game has started i've driven for 12 years. Calgary to Edmonton and back twice. I'm pretty fucking grumpy. I don't know what you want from me? you want me to spam i'm always town? okay

Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.Hello I am Mesk, I am Always Town.

I don't know why everyones on this meta train, Eggy clearly voted me based on personal spite. do you not see those apologizes?
do you not see that there's literally no explanation besides, "i'm like 99.9% sure"

Spruance's vote came with no explanation, i think i dunno it's hard to think at the moment.

courtesy of iced monopoly i got a comic that represents this exact game... so go fuck yourselves

Never Unlucky, stop kissing Calix's ass please.

anyways, nap time... bye

[secondpassing]

/unsign

Yes, my issue with the host is resolved.

I hereby rescind my vote on Never Unlucky until I can more fully comprehend what this means.

Context of the quote: sign-up thread for the other S-FM. He quotes signs 9. Spruance 10. Slayer and.... All the way at the bottom of the list, reserve 1. secondpassing.

If he thinks I am trash tier scum, I think he would have been elated in having caught the scum game one. That or he thinks that I am that bad.

But I have a feeling it is not the above, and that he is frustrated at me. You basically only get frustrated with town players or town that won't listen to you.

Which means, down under, he probably thinks I'm town, can't explain it in his terms why a town player would play like me, and concluded that I was scum.

(look man, I'm was wrong to call you a noob, I could have used a different term in addressing you.)

deathworlds
FoS on Calix while I contemplate

Note: This post was originally posted in an incorrect thread and was moved to its correct location about 40 minutes after the fact

-MattZed

[secondpassing]

Shootdid that not post?

[TheDarkestLight]

Shootdid that not post?

You put it in the sign up thread for the other game.

[Calix]

Yes, my issue with the host is resolved.

I hereby rescind my vote on Never Unlucky until I can more fully comprehend what this means.

Context of the quote: sign-up thread for the other S-FM. He quotes signs 9. Spruance 10. Slayer and.... All the way at the bottom of the list, reserve 1. secondpassing.

If he thinks I am trash tier scum, I think he would have been elated in having caught the scum game one. That or he thinks that I am that bad.

But I have a feeling it is not the above, and that he is frustrated at me. You basically only get frustrated with town players or town that won't listen to you.

Which means, down under, he probably thinks I'm town, can't explain it in his terms why a town player would play like me, and concluded that I was scum.

(look man, I'm was wrong to call you a noob, I could have used a different term in addressing you.)

deathworlds
FoS on Calix while I contemplate

NU unsigned because I hadn't signed.

Not that you should need to know this to realise how ridiculous USING SIGN UP THREADS TO READ PLAYERS IS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

The fact that every single read you make somehow relates back to how other people treat you is insanely self-centred.

If you think I'm scum, try voting me instead of just waving your 'FOS' around. Do you even have a read on me outside of "town-read NU"?

[Never Unlucky]

If nothing strikes you as weird about Calix why town read her? Wouldn't Null be more accurate?

She didn't slip, she's playing the Calix town game... Why would null be more accurate? I don't think I understand where you're coming from.


Spruance is fucking 100% town in your eyes? What? You even openly admit it to be meta.

No, of course he's not 100% town in my eyes. I read him not scum, I am not saying anyone is 100% town in my reads. He won't ever post something substantial, so the only way I had of reading him was with meta. Basically if he's not obvious scum, he's town for me.


And... I haven't added anything new? Alright then. Nice to know you are skimming.

Granted, I exaggerated when I wrote 'anything'. My points stand though.

And no, I didn't skim your posts. I read them from A to Z. I only skim Kovath's posts (when he's in the game) because I find his writing style annoyingly nerdy.


I also like how you seem to think I'm teamed with SP. Care to explain to me how that works?

No, I don't think you are in a team with SP, hence why I don't like that your vote is on him. I lean-scum-read both of you, so your vote on him is clouding my reads.

[Iced_Monopoly]

Given the topic being discussed is your vote, let's go back to your explanation for it:

Question. Why do you feel that lynching a heavily-discussed "not scum" lean is the most attractive option right now? I can't get over voting for someone that you do not actually scum-read, preferring to vote for the next viable train instead of voting/ lobbying for a train for one of your stated scum-reads. (which would also generate information) It's barely 12 hours into the day so time is not a concern.


Because at the time, the alternative train was on SP, which I was reading as town. There was time to go for multiple trains and see how people reacted to them, so it was best to make a start on one of the bigger ones, other trains could be moved to later.


However you choose to take these posts is up to you, but I know that scum!Iced_Monopoly has done this several times where he needs to post he is here but actually doesn't cover much. Like I said, I really wanted an overall opinion and I think these posts reflect more from a scum then a town.

You need to stop with the misrep. Not only did you ignore the post that i @mentioned you in initially refuting your point, but you then proceeded to ignore me all together until calix had to bring up your train of thought twice before you realised you needed to make a reply. I also questioned you the first time as to what all these times have been where ive gone into scum lurk mode, and you failed to respond, yet you continue to push this as meta reasoning. Not only have a played few scum games, but ive never lurked as scum. The only game you could possibly be referring to is WoM, where on the third day I dissapeared for a period of around 24hrs, which I explained in that game I was legitimately not around for, I was not at home, and not in a position to be posting on my phone, did that cost me the game? Probably, but you conveniently forgot that for the first two days of that game, it was my trains and my pushes that were lynched. A scum flying under the radar would not have driven two succesful mislynches in the opening of the game. So now reflecting on what has happened this game; What I did at the start of the game was courtesy, I was on for brief periods of time where I was able to read a 1/2 page, or sometimes a full page before leaving again, Instead of just letting my name pop up in the 'on this thread feed', I wanted my fellow players to know that I was indeed reading, and would be posting when possible, instead of not giving a fuck about the game and going lurker mode. Everyone else understood that, except you, because youre attempting to build a flimsy fucking (false) meta case against me.

Which brings me back to calixs point on you not having a vote, which is the scummiest thing thats pinging me so far. If you in any way believed I was scum based on my oh so obvious and totally legit meta, then you wouldve dropped a vote on me, but no, you havent, because you dont want to be flip flopping votes around this whole day looking like you just want to get a lynch off, and you dont want to be analysed if you avoid putting a lynch on a teammate, instead youre setting up these shitty points so that after a train already builds on me (or anyone else you misrepped), you can jump onto it at any time and claim 'oh well i was already scum reading them earlier, remember? so its cool that im here now, not sus at all' and get away with a mislynch. That right there is some scummy shit, and im now going to go back and determine if youre a better lynch candidate than NU.

Also welcome Spruance, and if NU and SP could stop tunneling on eachother, that'd be great.

[Never Unlucky]

NU unsigned because I hadn't signed.

Not that you should need to know this to realise how ridiculous USING SIGN UP THREADS TO READ PLAYERS IS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

The fact that every single read you make somehow relates back to how other people treat you is insanely self-centred.

If you think I'm scum, try voting me instead of just waving your 'FOS' around. Do you even have a read on me outside of "town-read NU"?

Where the fuck did you find this quote?

[Calix]

Because at the time, the alternative train was on SP, which I was reading as town. There was time to go for multiple trains and see how people reacted to them, so it was best to make a start on one of the bigger ones, other trains could be moved to later.

And your current thoughts on the NU/ SP thing are?

I'm assuming you're going to get to that though.


You need to stop with the misrep. Not only did you ignore the post that i @mentioned you in initially refuting your point, but you then proceeded to ignore me all together until calix had to bring up your train of thought twice before you realised you needed to make a reply.

Which train of thought do you refer to again?


I also questioned you the first time as to what all these times have been where ive gone into scum lurk mode, and you failed to respond, yet you continue to push this as meta reasoning. Not only have a played few scum games, but ive never lurked as scum.

I think you lurked as scum in PM 2.0. That's just a technical point though as Unknown hasn't read that game.


What I did at the start of the game was courtesy, I was on for brief periods of time where I was able to read a 1/2 page, or sometimes a full page before leaving again, Instead of just letting my name pop up in the 'on this thread feed', I wanted my fellow players to know that I was indeed reading, and would be posting when possible, instead of not giving a fuck about the game and going lurker mode. Everyone else understood that, except you, because youre attempting to build a flimsy fucking (false) meta case against me.

Unknown's point is indeed shitty and has no bearing on your alignment, nor has he provided a solid explanation for why he found your check-in posts scummy. I find your touchy response to be more interesting, however. Instead of shrugging it off, you went out of your way to defend yourself against this flimsy-ass accusation.

In general, you come across as defensive in your response. I wouldn't consider it a scum tell taken as it is but as an emotional response it's something I wouldn't expect from you.

Question. If Unknown's lack of a vote is the scummiest thing he's done, why didn't you mention it yourself earlier? Unless you are saying that I brought it to your attention, that part didn't make much sense to me.

[Calix]

Where the fuck did you find this quote?

The sign-up thread, lmao

[MattZed]

I would like to remind you all to make sure you are posting in the correct thread while playing Forum Mafia.

If you see another post out of place, report it so the FM staff can move it to the correct thread.

-FM Staff

[Never Unlucky]

[...]That right there is some scummy shit, and im now going to go back and determine if youre a better lynch candidate than NU.

Why was I a lynch candidate for you? Only for information + association?


The sign-up thread, lmao

LOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[Iced_Monopoly]

And your current thoughts on the NU/ SP thing are?

I'm assuming you're going to get to that though.
I will, im currently following another thought atm that im posting soon.



Which train of thought do you refer to again?
your posts where you had to repeatedly ask how it was AI on mine and TDLs post, and then just mine.



Unknown's point is indeed shitty and has no bearing on your alignment, nor has he provided a solid explanation for why he found your check-in posts scummy. I find your touchy response to be more interesting, however. Instead of shrugging it off, you went out of your way to defend yourself against this flimsy-ass accusation.

In general, you come across as defensive in your response. I wouldn't consider it a scum tell taken as it is but as an emotional response it's something I wouldn't expect from you.

Question. If Unknown's lack of a vote is the scummiest thing he's done, why didn't you mention it yourself earlier? Unless you are saying that I brought it to your attention, that part didn't make much sense to me.

I had shrugged it off until he continued to attempt to paint me as scum based on those points, and I could see him coming back to jump on a train on me by citing his continued bs here, so I wanted it stamped out for good. Slight emotion because dealing with blatant stupidity hurts.

It wasnt initially scummy to me until he continued to push the agenda, at which point you called out his lack of vote. This was going down in the wee hours of the morning for me, so I was asleep.

[Iced_Monopoly]

Why was I a lynch candidate for you? Only for information + association?

And the fact that I wasnt reading you as town.

[Eggy]

He called me 'very good' this game, yet he called me 'so bad' 19 hours ago:

Right now I think and am fairly sure he's town.





:P



:)

Whoaaa I didnt call u very good lol pretty sure I said the opposite if I didnt it was a typo 😂😂 why on earth would ai call you very good? Especially this game lol?

[Eggy]

I hate to burst your bubble, but that was most likely another typo :)

Yup obviously lol

[Never Unlucky]

And the fact that I wasnt reading you as town.

Fair enough.


Whoaaa I didnt call u very good lol pretty sure I said the opposite if I didnt it was a typo 😂😂 why on earth would ai call you very good? Especially this game lol?


I dont have a grudge with NU? I just think he is very good and this game I find him scummy for the reasons ive stated. From what i've seen day one slips are not really that much of a thing and
are usually used by scum to push a mislynch. Like what happened in instant mafia. I have no hard feelings towards NU I just dont like his playstyle. He has a way of discrediting things that strikes me as anti town

Ha.

MattZed deathworlds Is it possible to re-post the comment SP made in the sign up thread? I would like to reply to it.

[Calix]

I had shrugged it off until he continued to attempt to paint me as scum based on those points, and I could see him coming back to jump on a train on me by citing his continued bs here, so I wanted it stamped out for good. Slight emotion because dealing with blatant stupidity hurts.

It wasnt initially scummy to me until he continued to push the agenda, at which point you called out his lack of vote. This was going down in the wee hours of the morning for me, so I was asleep.

Being obstructive with votes in a game where VCA is one of the few tools that town has = anti-town at the very least. Typically suggests that you have no avenues to pursue; something which doesn't apply with Unknown. In that sense, his scum-read on you comes across as insincere because he is unwilling, for whatever reason, to back this up with a vote.

I don't town-read either of you so I expect your in-depth interactions with each other to be revealing.

So being around you 24/7 must be like living in Hell, eh? ;)


And the fact that I wasnt reading you as town.

Okay I'm going to actually read the chat and find the posts but I'm pretty sure you said you couldn't find a compelling scum narrative for him and whatnot so want to see if this is consistent or not.