S-FM 207 Island Conflict

[Iced_Monopoly]

S-FM Island Conflict

Quick Links:
Setup Page (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37001-S-FM-Island-Conflict)
Day One (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37395-S-FM-207-Island-Conflict)
Night One (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37395-S-FM-207-Island-Conflict?p=629794&viewfull=1#post629794)
Day Two (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37395-S-FM-207-Island-Conflict?p=629888&viewfull=1#post629888)
Night Two (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37395-S-FM-207-Island-Conflict?p=631399&viewfull=1#post631399)
Day Three (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37395-S-FM-207-Island-Conflict?p=631594&viewfull=1#post631594)
Game End (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37395-S-FM-207-Island-Conflict?p=631996&viewfull=1#post631996)

DAY ONE

With the island coming under threat from over development and an absurd influx of tourists, the tribes of the nation sent forward delegates to meet, and form a council to determine a solution to this plague. Nothing was off the table, not even the public execution of other council members should they say or do anything unreasonable.



Players Alive
Roles
Graveyard


Mesk514
Hidden Tribe



Calix
Hidden Tribe



RLVG
Hidden Tribe



Kovath
Hidden Tribe



Eggy
Hidden Tribe



Spruance
Hidden Tribe



MiniZed
Hidden Tribe



Never Unlucky
Hidden Expansionist



Gyrlander
Hidden Expansionist



DarknessB
Hidden Supernatural



6

Day ends in 48 hours
Time till day end (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20160728T08&p0=47&msg=Day+One+End&font=serif&csz=1)

[Never Unlucky]

Calix

The new kid won't get outted easily this time.

[Mesk514]

okay I'm ready for another game of proving I am always town.... this shit is kinda getting old... someone host a game and give me scum.

[Calix]

Calix

The new kid won't get outted easily this time.

It'll happen naturally.

I'll vote for someone a little more worthy in the meantime ;)

RLVG

[Spruance]

okay I'm ready for another game of proving I am always town.... this shit is kinda getting old... someone host a game and give me scum.

^^^

[Never Unlucky]

okay I'm ready for another game of proving I am always town.... this shit is kinda getting old... someone host a game and give me scum.

It's a way of balancing the game. If the host gives you a scum role, the evils would be underpowered.

[Calix]

Apparently none of you plebs are going to say anything and it's 12am over here...setup spec time!

1. Night Kill Analysis might actually be useful for once, given that the kills alternate between Mafia and Supernatural. This assumes that the scum aren't boring and actually put more thought into their kills than "lol active players"

...nah, who am I kidding? We all know that I'm going to get fucked over yet again even if I lurk my arse off.

2. I would honestly just read the Special Mechanics part and give your thoughts on that if any.

3. Using the Tourist/ Tax Evader ability is massively anti-town and shouldn't be done. If you're town, act like a Citizen.

4. Supernatural is likely to use their ability tonight. Everyone should be focused more on the day chat than whatever random-ass night actions we all have as we have no idea how the Supernatural/ Mafia can fuck with those.

But going back to the players...if I really want to be nitpicky, Never Unlucky's first post said that he wouldn't be "outed easily this time" - well how can a town member out themselves, exactly? If he's trying to work on his scum play, slipping that he received a scum role isn't the best way to go about it.

Explain yourself. You wanted to confront me after all.

[Gyrlander]

okay I'm ready for another game of proving I am always town.... this shit is kinda getting old... someone host a game and give me scum.

kk done.

[Gyrlander]

What the fuck is a MiniZed?

[Never Unlucky]

4. Supernatural is likely to use their ability tonight. Everyone should be focused more on the day chat than whatever random-ass night actions we all have as we have no idea how the Supernatural/ Mafia can fuck with those.

But going back to the players...if I really want to be nitpicky, Never Unlucky's first post said that he wouldn't be "outed easily this time" - well how can a town member out themselves, exactly? If he's trying to work on his scum play, slipping that he received a scum role isn't the best way to go about it.

Explain yourself. You wanted to confront me after all.
4. Explain why they are likely to use their ability N1. I do not see why they'd use their limited-use abilities on the first night more than any other night.

I meant that I won't get taken out easily this time. Wrong choice of words.

[Mesk514]

What the fuck is a MiniZed?

Sounds like a Matted offspring

[Mesk514]

MattZed*

[Calix]

4. Explain why they are likely to use their ability N1. I do not see why they'd use their limited-use abilities on the first night more than any other night.

I meant that I won't get taken out easily this time. Wrong choice of words.

4. Pretty obvious...Supernatural cannot kill on N1.

Question. Why did you choose to focus on the part about the Supernatural's strategy but ignored the rest of my setup speculation?

[Never Unlucky]

4. Pretty obvious...Supernatural cannot kill on N1.

Question. Why did you choose to focus on the part about the Supernatural's strategy but ignored the rest of my setup speculation?
There was nothing else I wanted to comment on.

Point 1 was about analysing nightkills. There were no night kills yet and you are stating the obvious. No need to comment.

Point 2 was about reading the special mechanics and giving my opinion on it. At the time I made my last post, I had nothing to add. Now, I will say that if there are no kills on odd nights, either the shaman saved his target or the expansionist hit the night immune SN.

Point 3 was about not using the tourist/tax evader night action which I agree with.

4. I get that... But why would they use their ability on N1 rather than N3/N5/NX? I do not get your point.

[Calix]

There was nothing else I wanted to comment on.

Point 1 was about analysing nightkills. There were no night kills yet and you are stating the obvious. No need to comment.

Point 2 was about reading the special mechanics and giving my opinion on it. At the time I made my last post, I had nothing to add. Now, I will say that if there are no kills on odd nights, either the shaman saved his target or the expansionist hit the night immune SN.

Point 3 was about not using the tourist/tax evader night action which I agree with.

4. I get that... But why would they use their ability on N1 rather than N3/N5/NX? I do not get your point.

Fair enough.

It's a 10-player game, so the odds of the game lasting until N5 is next to nothing. Worst-case scenario (where only town die) is that town loses majority by D3 if my maths is correct.

The Supernatural using their ridiculous night actions early on helps to fuck over town. Therefore town should be more active and aggressive in chat to find the scum because of the unreliability of night actions.

Also it's a small game so POE will basically win it for town if people aren't complete morons.

In accordance with this, we're not even 20 posts in but the tone of your response makes me slightly town-read you.

[Eggy]

Is there only one page? Ive never opened a thread with only one page lol.. feels strange
kovath

[DarknessB]

MiniZed? One is already too many...

:facepalm:

MiniZed

[Mesk514]

Okay, who wants to have a nice drunk calm conversation with me about why I'm always town. Offer expires at 2am Mountain time as after 6+ hours of being drunk I often get a head ache

[Kovath]

Okay, who wants to have a nice drunk calm conversation with me about why I'm always town. Offer expires at 2am Mountain time as after 6+ hours of being drunk I often get a head ache

Sup Mesk, just got home after flight. Convince me why you're town again :)

[Mesk514]

you were too slow so you get the meh answer...

because it's a fact.

ta duuuhh

[Calix]

you were too slow so you get the meh answer...

because it's a fact.

ta duuuhh

Are you ever going to comment on anything that isn't about your own alignment?

You're really beating a dead horse with the "ALWAYS TOWN GUISE" schtick this game.

[Mesk514]

Are you ever going to comment on anything that isn't about your own alignment?

You're really beating a dead horse with the "ALWAYS TOWN GUISE" schtick this game.

its getting old eh, probably like me :(

[Calix]

its getting old eh, probably like me :(

My request for you to talk about something else stands.

Mesk514

For lack of a better option.

zzz, it's been 12 hours and half of the players haven't even shown up. Bloody hell.

[Mesk514]

you whore, how dare you go against the facts of nature.

[Calix]

you whore, how dare you go against the facts of nature.

Keep trolling, pal, and you'll end up with a new necklace made of rope :)

[Mesk514]

how would you like me to speculate when the only conversation thats going is me?

would you like to analyze myself

okay

mesk=town

i know its getting old, but its true.

[Mesk514]

you'll end up with a new necklace made of rope :)

I'm planning to die of old age, tis all

if the rope is from Tiffanys, i'll take it.

[Calix]

how would you like me to speculate when the only conversation thats going is me?

would you like to analyze myself

okay

mesk=town

i know its getting old, but its true.

Did I mention that you're hammering in the "MESK = TOWN" thing? Because you really are.

Try commenting on everyone's opening posts. You are allowed to be as nitpicky as you like. Go :)


I'm planning to die of old age, tis all

if the rope is from Tiffanys, i'll take it.

Point in hand.

[Calix]

And Mesk disappears when I ask for reads. (even if shitty) Of course!

I'm bored so I'm just going to make some MU-style comments like I asked Mesk to and take my leave unless someone worthwhile actually shows up.


^^^

Sheeping Mesk with her "always town guise" crap, doesn't even bother pretending that he has any original thoughts nor does he have any queries about the non-standard setup despite him having a reputation for doing so - this shows a lack of initiative + potential assimilation/ buddying attempt with Mesk. Neutral-scum lean.


kk done.

What the fuck is a MiniZed?

Tone feels townie to me but who even knows when Gyrloser insist on being useless all day every day, lmao.


Sup Mesk, just got home after flight. Convince me why you're town again :)

Last sentence sets the tone for someone who expects the town to reach out to him and not vice versa. Complacency detected.


Is there only one page? Ive never opened a thread with only one page lol.. feels strange
kovath

Eggy comments on the lack of activity, seems surprised (slightly townie because scum wouldn't care much?) but does not attempt to do anything to change this. Strange, but given that DB/ Kovath/ Mesk/ Spruance also did nothing, not worth much by itself.

[Mesk514]

I havent disappered, and if i did... its 3am i think that should be acceptable..

anyway... Never Unlucky came out very very determined to have a convo with you, Calix.. do you not see that as potential buddying? get the smart ones attention then hide in plain sight?
"4. Explain why they are likely to use their ability N1."... answering a question with a question seems more like an trying to get change the route of the conversations so one doesn't dwell on a certain aspect

Spruance always comes off as dumb town or scum, but the only smart thing they've done before is that the old saying is that I'm always town, and he's totally recognized it... although he could know for a fact i am town... could be buddying


kovath hasn't said anything

eggy placed a policy vote

calix is calix

[Calix]

I havent disappered, and if i did... its 3am i think that should be acceptable..

anyway... Never Unlucky came out very very determined to have a convo with you, Calix.. do you not see that as potential buddying? get the smart ones attention then hide in plain sight?
"4. Explain why they are likely to use their ability N1."... answering a question with a question seems more like an trying to get change the route of the conversations so one doesn't dwell on a certain aspect

Spruance always comes off as dumb town or scum, but the only smart thing they've done before is that the old saying is that I'm always town, and he's totally recognized it... although he could know for a fact i am town... could be buddying


kovath hasn't said anything

eggy placed a policy vote

calix is calix

I wasn't aware of your timezone, mb.

I read it more as an attempt to either a) prove himself after [THING THAT WE CAN'T REALLY TALK ABOUT] or b) take me down after [ALSO THING WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT]. I don't see how anything he's done would qualify as buddying - can you expand on that point?

What 'certain aspect' do you think he was avoiding?

Third question. Why do you characterise Eggy's vote as 'policy' when it's on a player who has never been policy-lynched or even considered for one?

[Gyrlander]

Geez, Calix has already said I'm useless and we haven't pass the 1st page :(

I agree Mesk feels a little weird with the "I'm Mesk I'm always town". Either she's bored of being town, or she feels the need of telling us repeatively.

[Never Unlucky]

MiniZed? One is already too many...

:facepalm:

MiniZed
I cannot tell why, but I really do not like this post. Probably because it looks a lot like my own last game scum opening post.





anyway... Never Unlucky came out very very determined to have a convo with you, Calix.. do you not see that as potential buddying? get the smart ones attention then hide in plain sight?
"4. Explain why they are likely to use their ability N1."... answering a question with a question seems more like an trying to get change the route of the conversations so one doesn't dwell on a certain aspect

Spruance always comes off as dumb town or scum, but the only smart thing they've done before is that the old saying is that I'm always town, and he's totally recognized it... although he could know for a fact i am town... could be buddying


kovath hasn't said anything

eggy placed a policy vote

calix is calix
How are you assuming that I was "very determined" to have a conversation with Calix? How is having a conversation with someone "buddying"?

Lol. Calix's 4 point wasn't a question. It was rather a statement I did understand, so I asked her to explain to me where she was coming from with it.

How is Eggy's vote a policy vote?

Spruance Warning. I will not tolerate your trolling/lurking/refusing to collaborate/not following shitty meta this game.

[Calix]

I cannot tell why, but I really do not like this post. Probably because it looks a lot like my own last game scum opening post.



How are you assuming that I was "very determined" to have a conversation with Calix? How is having a conversation with someone "buddying"?

Lol. Calix's 4 point wasn't a question. It was rather a statement I did understand, so I asked her to explain to me where she was coming from with it.

How is Eggy's vote a policy vote?

@Spruance (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php?u=27577) Warning. I will not tolerate your trolling/lurking/refusing to collaborate/not following shitty meta this game.

Mentions are serious business :p

I'd comment more on this post but since it requires Mesk answering it for anything to happen (and waiting around is really not something we can afford to do...) I shall just direct you to #29. I agree that the characterisation of Eggy's vote is off. Not sure why, but I've noticed that scum have a tendency of mischaracterising other players' meta in this way. Unknown being a high contributor, anyone? ;)

Given you are still voting me, how do you read me presently?

[MiniZed]

MiniZed? One is already too many...

:facepalm:

MiniZed

Ain't that something...

DarknessB

[Calix]

Ain't that something...

DarknessB

If it isn't our best buddy, OMGUS. Do you actually have a reason for voting DB?

Post thoughts on the current chat so far.

[MiniZed]

If it isn't our best buddy, OMGUS. Do you actually have a reason for voting DB?

Post thoughts on the current chat so far.

not rlly tbh

[Calix]

not rlly tbh

So if I voted you, would you try to vote me as well? :)

Respond to my other query, scrub.

[Unknown1234]

So if I voted you, would you try to vote me as well? :)

Respond to my other query, scrub.

Only if you offended MattZed.

[Calix]

I'm already laughing at you, dude.

[MiniZed]

I'm already laughing at you, dude.

I was going to slip eventually. Couldn't prevent it.

[Calix]

I was going to slip eventually. Couldn't prevent it.

Maybe next time you decide to fuck around with smurf accounts...for whatever reason...you'll consider incognito mode like I bloody well said.

Now that you've slipped harder than 'TimeForce' did in WOM, want to actually play now?

[MiniZed]

Well, I can throw away my terrible role playing now, that was just an RVS vote though.

[MiniZed]

Maybe next time you decide to fuck around with smurf accounts...for whatever reason...you'll consider incognito mode like I bloody well said.

Now that you've slipped harder than 'TimeForce' did in WOM, want to actually play now?

Was JUST about to put it on, sheesh :P

[Calix]

Well, I can throw away my terrible role playing now, that was just an RVS vote though.


Was JUST about to put it on, sheesh :P

My points still stand, however :)

Impersonating SuperJack doesn't mean you'll get a pass from not contributing.

You should probably do it before everyone else comes in here and laughs at you too <3

[Never Unlucky]

Sheeping Mesk with her "always town guise" crap, doesn't even bother pretending that he has any original thoughts nor does he have any queries about the non-standard setup despite him having a reputation for doing so - this shows a lack of initiative + potential assimilation/ buddying attempt with Mesk. Neutral-scum lean.

Tone feels townie to me but who even knows when Gyrloser insist on being useless all day every day, lmao.

Last sentence sets the tone for someone who expects the town to reach out to him and not vice versa. Complacency detected.

Eggy comments on the lack of activity, seems surprised (slightly townie because scum wouldn't care much?) but does not attempt to do anything to change this. Strange, but given that DB/ Kovath/ Mesk/ Spruance also did nothing, not worth much by itself.

That's why I hate Spruance's meta. You can never town-read him for his actions and says even if he's town because of his meta. He'll always be a null-read/scum-read.

How is Gyrlander's tone townie to you? I could not feel the townie vibe in the 8 words you quoted.

Hmm, good point. Also, it is strange to me that he says "Sup Mesk, just got home after flight". Why Mesk over any other individual or entity?

I don't think it's AI.
Mentions are serious business :p

I'd comment more on this post but since it requires Mesk answering it for anything to happen (and waiting around is really not something we can afford to do...) I shall just direct you to #29. I agree that the characterisation of Eggy's vote is off. Not sure why, but I've noticed that scum have a tendency of mischaracterising other players' meta in this way. Unknown being a high contributor, anyone? ;)

Given you are still voting me, how do you read me presently?
Lmao. Boy was I wrong about Unknown. I really feel like making an Unknown rant right now, but he's not in the game and it's off-topic. I'll contain my inner rage.

Well, you're being the same Calix as town!Calix from last game. I don't necessarily town-read you though especially since I do not know scum!Calix. I was a bit skeptical of your intentions for saying very very early that you town-read me. (Buddying? Get my trust?) You were probably just being genuine though. Other than that, I haven't found anything else sketchy in your posts so far. I'm inclined to null-lean-scum-read you for now.

Did you have an opinion on DarknessB's opening post?

[MiniZed]

Oh boy you JUST pissed me off.

[Calix]

That's why I hate Spruance's meta. You can never town-read him for his actions and says even if he's town because of his meta. He'll always be a null-read/scum-read.

How is Gyrlander's tone townie to you? I could not feel the townie vibe in the 8 words you quoted.

Hmm, good point. Also, it is strange to me that he says "Sup Mesk, just got home after flight". Why Mesk over any other individual or entity?

I don't think it's AI.
Lmao. Boy was I wrong about Unknown. I really feel like making an Unknown rant right now, but he's not in the game and it's off-topic. I'll contain my inner rage.

Well, you're being the same Calix as town!Calix from last game. I don't necessarily town-read you though especially since I do not know scum!Calix. I was a bit skeptical of your intentions for saying very very early that you town-read me. (Buddying? Get my trust?) You were probably just being genuine though. Other than that, I haven't found anything else sketchy in your posts so far. I'm inclined to null-lean-scum-read you for now.

Did you have an opinion on DarknessB's opening post?

I also despise Spruance's meta but I think it's possible to town-read Spruance. It just takes a while and you have to be...generous...about it.

It's a very weak read (again, it's Gyrlander) but he sounded flippant/ carefree and not cautious which I read as town more than not. Can easily just be him living up to his meta as well.

Good question with regards to Kovath.

Well he technically is in the game :laugh:

To be perfectly honest, I don't know what my scum game is like either. I never bloody roll it these days. Recent games where I was scum include FF7 (only for D1 though), Firebringer's Improv Mafia and Illuminati??? for the sake of meta.

Just to clarify, you have a null-scum lean on me because you suspect buddying? Am I correct in assuming that?

I did not have an opinion on the post itself - it's very typical of DB to make an opening post like that. I find the lack of follow up in the thread to be more eyebrow-raising.

[Calix]

Oh boy you JUST pissed me off.

Please tell us more.

[Never Unlucky]

To be perfectly honest, I don't know what my scum game is like either. I never bloody roll it these days. Recent games where I was scum include FF7 (only for D1 though), Firebringer's Improv Mafia and Illuminati??? for the sake of meta.

Just to clarify, you have a null-scum lean on me because you suspect buddying? Am I correct in assuming that?

And AI. You didn't post a single time and got replaced.

Fuck, I meant null-lean-town, I swear. I got mixed up.

[Kovath]

I havent disappered, and if i did... its 3am i think that should be acceptable..

anyway... Never Unlucky came out very very determined to have a convo with you, Calix.. do you not see that as potential buddying? get the smart ones attention then hide in plain sight?
"4. Explain why they are likely to use their ability N1."... answering a question with a question seems more like an trying to get change the route of the conversations so one doesn't dwell on a certain aspect

Spruance always comes off as dumb town or scum, but the only smart thing they've done before is that the old saying is that I'm always town, and he's totally recognized it... although he could know for a fact i am town... could be buddying


kovath hasn't said anything

eggy placed a policy vote

calix is calix

NU's question was a rather legitimate one, I wouldn't call that buddying or even assimilation so it feels like you're reaching here on any kind of interaction. Would you have put forth the same opinion on anyone who interacted with Calix's points?

At least you recognize this coming from Spruance, though you didn't comment initially upon it. It still strikes me that your definition of buddying is very flexible - I have a very flexible definition myself but to group NU's and Spruance's behavior under the same umbrella term, when NU wasn't even trying to put forth anything close to a similar thought process as Calix, is very odd.

Commented on me saying nothing but didn't mention DarknessB?


Geez, Calix has already said I'm useless and we haven't pass the 1st page :(

I agree Mesk feels a little weird with the "I'm Mesk I'm always town". Either she's bored of being town, or she feels the need of telling us repeatively.

Get your act together then, scrublord l0l.

I like the fact that you actually tried to make a point - except it's just agreeing with someone else's. Could see you low-key trying to feebly dodge a PL this game.

[Kovath]

That's why I hate Spruance's meta. You can never town-read him for his actions and says even if he's town because of his meta. He'll always be a null-read/scum-read.

How is Gyrlander's tone townie to you? I could not feel the townie vibe in the 8 words you quoted.

Hmm, good point. Also, it is strange to me that he says "Sup Mesk, just got home after flight". Why Mesk over any other individual or entity?

I don't think it's AI.
Lmao. Boy was I wrong about Unknown. I really feel like making an Unknown rant right now, but he's not in the game and it's off-topic. I'll contain my inner rage.

Well, you're being the same Calix as town!Calix from last game. I don't necessarily town-read you though especially since I do not know scum!Calix. I was a bit skeptical of your intentions for saying very very early that you town-read me. (Buddying? Get my trust?) You were probably just being genuine though. Other than that, I haven't found anything else sketchy in your posts so far. I'm inclined to null-lean-scum-read you for now.

Did you have an opinion on DarknessB's opening post?

[Insert standard meta complaint]

I agree[d] with this question.

Mesk offered a discussion and had recently posted, so I responded. Nothing came in response, so I went to sleep.

-

I can see some town skepticism in being suspicious of someone who appears to be rather easily townreading you so early - just a gut feeling that I'd believe this over a scum attempting to fake it. Part of it does have to do with personal perception of play so far, though.


I also despise Spruance's meta but I think it's possible to town-read Spruance. It just takes a while and you have to be...generous...about it.

It's a very weak read (again, it's Gyrlander) but he sounded flippant/ carefree and not cautious which I read as town more than not. Can easily just be him living up to his meta as well.

Good question with regards to Kovath.

Well he technically is in the game :laugh:

To be perfectly honest, I don't know what my scum game is like either. I never bloody roll it these days. Recent games where I was scum include FF7 (only for D1 though), Firebringer's Improv Mafia and Illuminati??? for the sake of meta.

Just to clarify, you have a null-scum lean on me because you suspect buddying? Am I correct in assuming that?

I did not have an opinion on the post itself - it's very typical of DB to make an opening post like that. I find the lack of follow up in the thread to be more eyebrow-raising.

What about Gyrlander's recent post? You didn't comment on it at all, does it fit the mold?

Does that say anything in particular about DB?

[Calix]

It's well-established that Mesk's post was weird as fuck and that Gyrloser is the most productive pleb in this thread. Anything else to add, Kovath dear?

[Calix]

lol, never mind.

[Kovath]

It's well-established that Mesk's post was weird as fuck and that Gyrloser is the most productive pleb in this thread. Anything else to add, Kovath dear?

I also commented on the implications of this. You mis-characterized when I said this in regards to him:

"I like the fact that you actually tried to make a point - except it's just agreeing with someone else's. Could see you low-key trying to feebly dodge a PL this game."

[Kovath]

Oh, I guess I should elaborate that "low-key trying to feebly dodge a PL" -> more what I thing would come from scum!lander than town!lander, who would just be "lolololo I'm town and I know it so I don't give a shit what you think or about the possibility of a PL".

[Calix]

[Insert standard meta complaint]

I agree[d] with this question.

Mesk offered a discussion and had recently posted, so I responded. Nothing came in response, so I went to sleep.

Apparently I called it with my earlier comment on you.


I can see some town skepticism in being suspicious of someone who appears to be rather easily townreading you so early - just a gut feeling that I'd believe this over a scum attempting to fake it. Part of it does have to do with personal perception of play so far, though.

This was what I was thinking when he said that he suspected me, but then he concluded null-town so not as strong of a point.


What about Gyrlander's recent post? You didn't comment on it at all, does it fit the mold?

Does that say anything in particular about DB?

He's trying, albeit poorly, to up his game. Either he's finally deciding to take the game more seriously (lol), trying to avoid being the obvious lynch target (your theory) or he just wanted to affirm his agreement with what I said as he generally just makes random comments. But he rarely makes "lol this is so accurate 100%" comments so it's possible that he's trying to subtly buddy me.

DB lacks initiative to push the game in a more productive direction, but I can say that for most players so far. Null read for me.

Pre-edit: I was being sarcastic with my Gyrloser comment. Not sure (if?) how you missed that given I called him the "most productive" person :laugh:

[Calix]

Oh, I guess I should elaborate that "low-key trying to feebly dodge a PL" -> more what I thing would come from scum!lander than town!lander, who would just be "lolololo I'm town and I know it so I don't give a shit what you think or about the possibility of a PL".

Question. Isn't this using meta which you made a standard complaint about earlier? :)

[Kovath]

Apparently I called it with my earlier comment on you.

This was what I was thinking when he said that he suspected me, but then he concluded null-town so not as strong of a point.

He's trying, albeit poorly, to up his game. Either he's finally deciding to take the game more seriously (lol), trying to avoid being the obvious lynch target (your theory) or he just wanted to affirm his agreement with what I said as he generally just makes random comments. But he rarely makes "lol this is so accurate 100%" comments so it's possible that he's trying to subtly buddy me.

DB lacks initiative to push the game in a more productive direction, but I can say that for most players so far. Null read for me.

Pre-edit: I was being sarcastic with my Gyrloser comment. Not sure (if?) how you missed that given I called him the "most productive" person :laugh:

The complacency one? Yeah, I was tired and about to sleep so meh.

Well, it's a challenging distinction to make I admit - I think that him expressing the suspicion is more significant than the ultimate read he makes in this case, though, although it could be scum trying to cover his bases. I'd be more concerned if the read didn't evolve.

(Speaking of which, in regards to my earlier comment about "personal perception of play": Never Unlucky, do you think your play and comments in this game warrant the read that Calix is giving you, or does that read feel out of place? As an example: In MW II I townread BCD despite / because of their scumread on me because I knew that my play HAD been shitty.)

Upping his game -> offering agreement on a vibe-tone comment.

:LUL:

Seriously though, you discard that possibility and the other two have potential scum implications (dodging PL / subtle buddy) - why didn't you comment on his post when he made it then, still holding to your townie vibes from his first two?

So this is normal fare from him? Ok.

Sarcasm is your norm, why even comment on it? :P My point was that you treated my comment as more focusing on his activity when I was trying to analyze it.


Question. Isn't this using meta which you made a standard complaint about earlier? :)

Some players, no choice but to use meta - and I realize my [insert standard meta complaint here] went off wrong - it was actually to insert a standard complaint about the meta of shitposting trolls rather than my usual spiel about disliking meta - which I consider a given part of my own meta anyway :)

[Calix]

Well, it's a challenging distinction to make I admit - I think that him expressing the suspicion is more significant than the ultimate read he makes in this case, though, although it could be scum trying to cover his bases. I'd be more concerned if the read didn't evolve.

Valid point.


Upping his game -> offering agreement on a vibe-tone comment.

:LUL:

Seriously though, you discard that possibility and the other two have potential scum implications (dodging PL / subtle buddy) - why didn't you comment on his post when he made it then, still holding to your townie vibes from his first two?

Yeah yeah, just consider it baby steps for him.

I didn't see much to comment on or use to push the conversation forward as it was pretty obvious that he was agreeing with me...not a lot more to say there. Also Gyrloser tends to ignore players even when they directly ask him questions which is annoying but there isn't a lot you can do about it save for thrusting him into the spotlight right away...which he will most likely continue to ignore...bleh.

And yeah, I still slight-town read him. Even though his play is shitty (~meta~), I'd rather not fall into the trap of policy-lynching him just because his play sucks as the setup doesn't have enough MLs to risk doing that. So unless he does something else to change my read, I stand by my initial impression.

[Kovath]

Yeah yeah, just consider it baby steps for him.

I didn't see much to comment on or use to push the conversation forward as it was pretty obvious that he was agreeing with me...not a lot more to say there. Also Gyrloser tends to ignore players even when they directly ask him questions which is annoying but there isn't a lot you can do about it save for thrusting him into the spotlight right away...which he will most likely continue to ignore...bleh.

And yeah, I still slight-town read him. Even though his play is shitty (~meta~), I'd rather not fall into the trap of policy-lynching him just because his play sucks as the setup doesn't have enough MLs to risk doing that. So unless he does something else to change my read, I stand by my initial impression.

So is there any other way of dealing with a scum!loser other than a hypothetical vigi shot?

[Calix]

So is there any other way of dealing with a scum!loser other than a hypothetical vigi shot?

Yes, this hypothetical shiny red button is known as a scum slip, of which Scumloser is prone to doing :)

[Kovath]

Yes, this hypothetical shiny red button is known as a scum slip, of which Scumloser is prone to doing :)

So Gyrloser's reached the point where scumslip is the only way we can lynch him...???

Oh god. But if he doesn't post, how can he scumslip?

[Calix]

So Gyrloser's reached the point where scumslip is the only way we can lynch him...???

Oh god. But if he doesn't post, how can he scumslip?

If you think about it, most of the scummy/ shitty-ass players on this site don't actually get lynched that often...so yes? It's not unique just to him, really.

Given the appalling activity levels, we might end up lynching among the lurkers/ no-posters at this rate. I don't have a strong opinion on you and even if I did scum-read you, lynching you today is suboptimal at the moment, and for all his faults, at least Gyrloser showed up and is capable of voting as well (as we need 6 votes)...although he hasn't.

Speaking of which, where is your vote?

[Kovath]

If you think about it, most of the scummy/ shitty-ass players on this site don't actually get lynched that often...so yes? It's not unique just to him, really.

Given the appalling activity levels, we might end up lynching among the lurkers/ no-posters at this rate. I don't have a strong opinion on you and even if I did scum-read you, lynching you today is suboptimal at the moment, and for all his faults, at least Gyrloser showed up and is capable of voting as well (as we need 6 votes)...although he hasn't.

Speaking of which, where is your vote?

I'm weighing where I'd like to put pressure today.

Mesk / Gyrloser among those who have posted to some extent so far, then again good ole lurker friends...

I would love to push Gyrloser to a quick L-2 or L-1 and force him to do SOMETHING that can be better read.

Gyrlander

[Calix]

I'm weighing where I'd like to put pressure today.

Mesk / Gyrloser among those who have posted to some extent so far, then again good ole lurker friends...

I would love to push Gyrloser to a quick L-2 or L-1 and force him to do SOMETHING that can be better read.

Gyrlander

Your pressure vote is made useless by you calling it a pressure vote. Haven't I told you this 975093037 times before? Also doesn't help that your 'pressure' vote is in response to me asking for one.

If you want him to do something, try asking questions or make some more accusations or anything other than a naked vote. He probably won't respond but it won't hurt to try.

[Kovath]

Your pressure vote is made useless by you calling it a pressure vote. Haven't I told you this 975093037 times before? Also doesn't help that your 'pressure' vote is in response to me asking for one.

If you want him to do something, try asking questions or make some more accusations or anything other than a naked vote. He probably won't respond but it won't hurt to try.

I said the following: "I would love to push Gyrloser to a quick L-2 or L-1 and force him to do SOMETHING that can be better read."

I want to push him there, if he doesn't respond he gets lynched. It wasn't a naked vote like "lel, here's a pressure vote at L-5 guise, now he's going to give ansawhs!"

I think it's self evident I want him to contribute and make comments / reads, since there's very little provided by him to work with in terms of questioning his motivations. I think that he's trying to dodge a PL as scum but he would never admit that, clearly.

[Calix]

Well Gyrloser, Kovath, Unknown are online.

4/10 players.

Can the others kindly speak up so something can happen? Unless we're all in unanimous agreement that we are 4/6 of the townies, we should be trying to make shit happen.

Thanks.

[Kovath]

MiniZed: Get your butt in here and say something. You're not even trolling as much as you usually do, or asking one-line questions, or making any kind of useful comments.

You blew your own cover already, stop RPing a lurker.

Or explain your crappy OMGUS -> RPlay -> RVS vote.

[Calix]

MiniZed: Get your butt in here and say something. You're not even trolling as much as you usually do, or asking one-line questions, or making any kind of useful comments.

You blew your own cover already, stop RPing a lurker.

Or explain your crappy OMGUS -> RPlay -> RVS vote.

That shitty OMGUS vote gave me WOM flashbacks. TimeForce's double OMGUS, anyone?

[Never Unlucky]

So is there any other way of dealing with a scum!loser other than a hypothetical vigi shot?

I hope the Blowgun is RLVG-lante. ;) He nailed 2 non-town members when he was vigilante in AI.


(Speaking of which, in regards to my earlier comment about "personal perception of play": Never Unlucky, do you think your play and comments in this game warrant the read that Calix is giving you, or does that read feel out of place? As an example: In MW II I townread BCD despite / because of their scumread on me because I knew that my play HAD been shitty.)


Yes, I think my actions and comments do. Calix however said that it was my tone that made her lean-town-read me. Does my tone warrant the read she's given me? Eh

[Calix]

I hope the Blowgun is RLVG-lante. ;) He nailed 2 non-town members when he was vigilante in AI.



Yes, I think my actions and comments do. Calix however said that it was my tone that made her lean-town-read me. Does my tone warrant the read she's given me? Eh

Allow me to put it this way.

You act and sound nothing like you did as scum.

Given that the game I refer to is recent, the odds of you massively changing your scum play since then = almost nothing.

Therefore you are very likely to be town.

If I'm wrong and you have actually improved your scum play by the power of ten in such a small time span, I'll eat my hat.

[Kovath]

That shitty OMGUS vote gave me WOM flashbacks. TimeForce's double OMGUS, anyone?

Just took a look at WoM due to this. He was oddly fixated / involved with the RVS stage in that game, not just with the OMGUS but also commenting on other votes like Sino getting two quickly. He was also oddly sarcastic and insinuative in that game.

...Lol, could he really be that transparent about only OMGUSing as scum? I can't remember if he'd done it more in recent games.

[Calix]

Just took a look at WoM due to this. He was oddly fixated / involved with the RVS stage in that game, not just with the OMGUS but also commenting on other votes like Sino getting two quickly. He was also oddly sarcastic and insinuative in that game.

...Lol, could he really be that transparent about only OMGUSing as scum? I can't remember if he'd done it more in recent games.

Hasn't he only been scum in WOM, the M-FM and the Beginner's Game anyway?

From what I recall of Hanzo's early play, his first post made a point by saying "second original [RVS] vote" (haven't actually checked to see what else is relevant but I'll do that now)

So that supports your theory that scum!Unknown is more attuned to votes during the early stage.

[Never Unlucky]

Allow me to put it this way.

You act and sound nothing like you did as scum.

Given that the game I refer to is recent, the odds of you massively changing your scum play since then = almost nothing.

Therefore you are very likely to be town.

If I'm wrong and you have actually improved your scum play by the power of ten in such a small time span, I'll eat my hat.

I still don't know what I did wrong to get outed in Politico other than mentionning I was a noob in my first post (Which is sort of what Mesk is doing here with her "always town" rule).

DarknessB , what are your reads so far?
DarknessB

[Calix]

Just took a look at WoM due to this. He was oddly fixated / involved with the RVS stage in that game, not just with the OMGUS but also commenting on other votes like Sino getting two quickly. He was also oddly sarcastic and insinuative in that game.

...Lol, could he really be that transparent about only OMGUSing as scum? I can't remember if he'd done it more in recent games.

Kovath, would you count the following posts as fitting in with this theory of yours?

He didn't OMGUS anyone in the early stage though, preferring to correctly town-read everyone on his train...although this is countered by the fact that town-reading too many players in a smaller save = dangerous move for scum.


Ooh, numbers!

Good work!

Although, you seem to know that the scum wernt afk anyways.

You seem like you read straight from a average game. That's not really how I play. More likely, and yet you seem so sure of the outcome.

Townie response of the year.

Effort>Lurking. Lurking is easier.

[in response to "lurking isn't AI"] That's true, and I'm not arguing this, but it's easier for scum to lurk.

This kinda sounds lazy. There are 15 towns, 1/3 could easily vote so early.

Vote because I'm lazy and very useless. Is there even a pro-scum play behind what I'm doing?

Sheesh, this is why town has so many mislynches, they jump in 2 hours without even considering things

Eh, it shows a bit that you aren't jumping on my train like Lucio and Solider.

[in response to being scum-read] Nice job, easy picks!

It's because I don't qualify for a perfect town player. :(

Because obviously I'm easy, I haven't done shit otherwise. I didn't say they wernt scummy, but especially on Mccree you developped a scum read on someone because of a single post where they defended someone. Do you think scum is going to be that obvious.

Why should I play to how you want me to play, you are outstanding!

I got to #250 before I got bored of copy-pasting.

[Kovath]

This is a bit more of tenuous thing, but he also ignored Gyrlander's post asking "What the fk is a MiniZed?" yet responded to DB's post + vote.

I admit that the posts aren't really similar in content other than confused / semi-negative tone + mention of MiniZed, but nevertheless another incongruity highlighting being more attentive to votes.

[Kovath]

Kovath, would you count the following posts as fitting in with this theory of yours?

He didn't OMGUS anyone in the early stage though, preferring to correctly town-read everyone on his train...although this is countered by the fact that town-reading too many players in a smaller save = dangerous move for scum.

This was past the RVS stage though, wasn't it? The OMGUS we're bringing up now and from WoM relates to RVS votes in particular.

...fk you Unknown, forcing me to use meta >.> You're in company with Gyrlander and that's not good company.

[Calix]

This was past the RVS stage though, wasn't it? The OMGUS we're bringing up now and from WoM relates to RVS votes in particular.

...fk you Unknown, forcing me to use meta >.> You're in company with Gyrlander and that's not good company.

To be fair, there wasn't much of a RVS stage in the M-FM so I included most of the early posts for context, but I take your point.

Oh boy, you just compared him to Gyrloser? He's going to love that :>

[Kovath]

To be fair, there wasn't much of a RVS stage in the M-FM so I included most of the early posts for context, but I take your point.

Oh boy, you just compared him to Gyrloser? He's going to love that :>

Well you did bring up that thing about "second original vote" or whatever that somewhat substantiates my theory.

Maybe he'll say that I've "pissed him off" and perhaps he'll also get to answering why he said that in that earlier post to you!

Geez, golly, wee.

LUL

[Kovath]

You know what, I'm getting pumped for this train now. I want answers.

MiniZed

[Calix]

Well you did bring up that thing about "second original vote" or whatever that somewhat substantiates my theory.

Maybe he'll say that I've "pissed him off" and perhaps he'll also get to answering why he said that in that earlier post to you!

Geez, golly, wee.

LUL

I think the 'you pissed me off' thing was referring to Never Unlucky, not me.

Although it's difficult to tell because it's only us two talking, I'm not sensing anything particularly 'off' about you. Either Town or Neutral. I really hope it's not the latter, lol.

[MiniZed]

You know what, I'm getting pumped for this train now. I want answers.

MiniZed

??

[Kovath]

I think the 'you pissed me off' thing was referring to Never Unlucky, not me.

Although it's difficult to tell because it's only us two talking, I'm not sensing anything particularly 'off' about you. Either Town or Neutral. I really hope it's not the latter, lol.

Oh. lol. It wasn't really clearly stated who it was to, but you're probably right. I assumed it was you making him slip, but rereading seems to point toward NU's Unknown meta point.

No comment Kappa

Seriously though, no specific textual or tone analysis to offer? You usually have comments about my posting style or how I explain things or whatnot, at least.

[MiniZed]

MiniZed: Get your butt in here and say something. You're not even trolling as much as you usually do, or asking one-line questions, or making any kind of useful comments.

You blew your own cover already, stop RPing a lurker.

Or explain your crappy OMGUS -> RPlay -> RVS vote.

You make it sound like my RP is AI. I was Planning on RP'ing no matter what allignment anyways.

[Kovath]

Oh. lol. It wasn't really clearly stated who it was to, but you're probably right. I assumed it was you making him slip, but rereading seems to point toward NU's Unknown meta point.

No comment Kappa

Seriously though, no specific textual or tone analysis to offer? You usually have comments about my posting style or how I explain things or whatnot, at least.

Why does LUL not need the colons while :Kappa: does...?


??

Read the thread and do more than respond to votes on you, please. :NotLikeThis:

[MiniZed]

It was obviously directed at NU.

[Kovath]

Well, I can throw away my terrible role playing now, that was just an RVS vote though.


You make it sound like my RP is AI. I was Planning on RP'ing no matter what allignment anyways.

^ Does not compute.

[MiniZed]

Why does LUL not need the colons while :Kappa: does...?



Read the thread and do more than respond to votes on you, please. :NotLikeThis:

It was the top post on the last page which is the first thing I read, but okay...

[MiniZed]

^ Does not compute.

I haven't Role played as of my slip, I didn't even speak...

[Never Unlucky]

It was obviously directed at NU.

hi

[MiniZed]

hi

Hi Friend.

[MiniZed]

Kovath, would you count the following posts as fitting in with this theory of yours?

He didn't OMGUS anyone in the early stage though, preferring to correctly town-read everyone on his train...although this is countered by the fact that town-reading too many players in a smaller save = dangerous move for scum.
















I got to #250 before I got bored of copy-pasting.

You went through my day 1 posts from an anonymous game?

[Calix]

Oh. lol. It wasn't really clearly stated who it was to, but you're probably right. I assumed it was you making him slip, but rereading seems to point toward NU's Unknown meta point.

No comment Kappa

Seriously though, no specific textual or tone analysis to offer? You usually have comments about my posting style or how I explain things or whatnot, at least.

I do. I am just not revealing them. You play a mean Neutral game from what I've seen and who even knows about your scumplay, so I'd rather not give you clues as to how to evade my suspicion later on in the game (assuming I'm not dead, lmao) at this point.


It was the top post on the last page which is the first thing I read, but okay...

Ah, I see the passive-aggressive Unknown is in the room. Let's make you squeal a little more, shall we?

MiniZed

[MiniZed]

That shitty OMGUS vote gave me WOM flashbacks. TimeForce's double OMGUS, anyone?

I was playing two characters in that game.

I don't understand why I'm so hard to read that you're going into every previous game I've been scum.

[MiniZed]

What the fuck is a MiniZed?

Kovath, why was I supposed to respond to this?

[Calix]

I was playing two characters in that game.

I don't understand why I'm so hard to read that you're going into every previous game I've been scum.

>admits to being prone to making up bullshit
>has admitted before that his early game play is shit
>deliberately went out of his way to hide his identity (see point #1)
>claims he 'doesn't understand' why he's hard to read

Legit.

[Kovath]

Kovath, why was I supposed to respond to this?

You responded to an RVS vote on you that also had some "lol wtf MiniZed" tones, why not this one too?

[MiniZed]

You responded to an RVS vote on you that also had some "lol wtf MiniZed" tones, why not this one too?

Because Darkness knew who I was.

[Calix]

Because Darkness knew who I was.

Which justifies an OMGUS how?

[MiniZed]

>admits to being prone to making up bullshit
>has admitted before that his early game play is shit
>deliberately went out of his way to hide his identity (see point #1)
>claims he 'doesn't understand' why he's hard to read

Legit.

I hid my identity before the game started before I had my role.

It's like you expect me to respond to this when it's phrased in such a way.

[MiniZed]

Which justifies an OMGUS how?

I always vote, why would it be any different now?

[Kovath]

Seriously, I don't even know if you were seriously lurking or actually weren't, but I find it interesting that you're only commenting on the things that pertain to you while ignoring all the other (limited, so not even a hassle to get through) posts / comments / questions that have take place since you last posted.

You've been here for like 20 minutes and are just posting questions as defense, being passive-aggressive, and whining about why you're "so hard to read" despite the fact you've given nothing of worth to us.

[Kovath]

I always vote, why would it be any different now?

The "OMGUS" part is what was being stressed, not the "vote" part. Are you deliberately responding obtusely like this?

[Calix]

I hid my identity before the game started before I had my role.

It's like you expect me to respond to this when it's phrased in such a way.

Yes, that proves my point that you are hard to read as you pull this shit for no apparent reason.

The fact that you are pulling the "why do people not know how to read me" pity card and whining about it (as opposed to being helpful) doesn't help your case for this game.

[MiniZed]

Literally, the reason I responded to his vote was because of his direct comment on MattZed, where as being MiniZed my ACT was to defend him. There's nothing else to really say there.

Gyrlander said something which I felt could not respond to.

[Calix]

Literally, the reason I responded to his vote was because of his direct comment on MattZed, where as being MiniZed my ACT was to defend him. There's nothing else to really say there.

Gyrlander said something which I felt could not respond to.

"Defending MattZed is part of my roleplay!"

Give me a break.

Reads now, scumfuck.

[MiniZed]

Yes, that proves my point that you are hard to read as you pull this shit for no apparent reason.

The fact that you are pulling the "why do people not know how to read me" pity card and whining about it (as opposed to being helpful) doesn't help your case for this game.

I don't know why it's considered whining, I've just changed my tone this game.

I'm not in the right mindset yet.

[MiniZed]

"Defending MattZed is part of my roleplay!"

Give me a break.

Reads now, scumfuck.

It was part of my role play,

I haven't looked into it enough yet to build reads.

[Calix]

I don't know why it's considered whining, I've just changed my tone this game.

I'm not in the right mindset yet.

Kindly take a look at your slew of posts and tell me how they aren't full of whiny, self-aggrandising bullshit for me, would ya?

Oh, is that so? Guess what? We're going to help push you along :)


It was part of my role play,

I haven't looked into it enough yet to build reads.

Less nattering, more reads.

What the fuck compelled you to think RP was a good idea in the first place?

[MiniZed]

Seriously, I don't even know if you were seriously lurking or actually weren't, but I find it interesting that you're only commenting on the things that pertain to you while ignoring all the other (limited, so not even a hassle to get through) posts / comments / questions that have take place since you last posted.

You've been here for like 20 minutes and are just posting questions as defense, being passive-aggressive, and whining about why you're "so hard to read" despite the fact you've given nothing of worth to us.

When I'm usually around consistently throughout the game, I'm always there for day 1. However, if I didn't post a lot it was because of the fact that it was my birthday, and considering I was posting in one game already. I haven't looked into the game intensely enough, so no I haven't been responding to every comment yet. I don't tend to defend myself, but if people are going to ask me questions then why shouldn't I respond?

You just copied word for word about what Calix said.

[Calix]

Now that something interesting has crash-dived into this game...
RLVG Spruance DarknessB Gyrlander Mesk514


If any of the above try to walk in and claim that they have no opinions on this, they're next :smile:

[MiniZed]

Kindly take a look at your slew of posts and tell me how they aren't full of whiny, self-aggrandising bullshit for me, would ya?

Oh, is that so? Guess what? We're going to help push you along :)



Less nattering, more reads.

What the fuck compelled you to think RP was a good idea in the first place?

Because like I said, I need to get into the right mindset to start playing properly. If i deal it in a way that isn't appreciated, I don't know what to say except I did it, and it's done with.

[Never Unlucky]

Grand Witch
"Has a two charge ability to redirect the actions of players at night. Can select up to 2 players per night and redirect each of them individually into any other player."

Voodoo Doctor
"Has a one-time ability to randomly redirect all players’ night actions into other players."

If a player does not submit an action for a night and the Voodoo Doctor/Grand Witch uses its night ability, is the said player forced to commit an action? ie: Blowgun warrior chooses not to shoot a poison dart N1 and the SN uses its ability. Would the Blowgun warrior be forced to do a night action?

Iced_Monopoly

[Calix]

When I'm usually around consistently throughout the game, I'm always there for day 1. However, if I didn't post a lot it was because of the fact that it was my birthday, and considering I was posting in one game already. I haven't looked into the game intensely enough, so no I haven't been responding to every comment yet. I don't tend to defend myself, but if people are going to ask me questions then why shouldn't I respond?

You just copied word for word about what Calix said.

You say that you haven't looked intensely into the game yet...but you somehow managed to respond to every single comment that even sniffed in your direction at the expense of like...everything else?

Where did Kovath copy me 'word for word' exactly?


Because like I said, I need to get into the right mindset to start playing properly. If i deal it in a way that isn't appreciated, I don't know what to say except I did it, and it's done with.

This response makes no sense. Incoherent emotional bullshit coming atcha.

[MiniZed]

The "OMGUS" part is what was being stressed, not the "vote" part. Are you deliberately responding obtusely like this?

I often forget what terms mean.

[Calix]

NU, are you going to comment on something that isn't setup spec?

Your question relates to the Supernaturals...which you also asked me about earlier in the game...and it's a question which basically asks "can the Witch force the Vig role to shoot N1 even if they don't move"

This has obvious Supernatural motivations behind it. Please explain why you decided to ask about that.

[MiniZed]

You say that you haven't looked intensely into the game yet...but you somehow managed to respond to every single comment that even sniffed in your direction at the expense of like...everything else?

Where did Kovath copy me 'word for word' exactly?



This response makes no sense. Incoherent emotional bullshit coming atcha.

I can't even answer this because I don't have a reason for doing this. I just read everything and responded to where I saw my name mentioned.

In the message I quoted. It's not even that relevant is it? Don't even know why I mentioned it.

I'm not sure how else to answer it.

[Calix]

I can't even answer this because I don't have a reason for doing this. I just read everything and responded to where I saw my name mentioned.

In the message I quoted. It's not even that relevant is it? Don't even know why I mentioned it.

I'm not sure how else to answer it.

So you admit to being self-centred and only responding to comments relating to you? You don't cite time constraints as a reason for this either, suggesting that external factors did not play a large role in influencing your decision.

Quote my message and the one that he 'copied' please.

Try again instead of moping and going "I don't know, man"

[MiniZed]

Seriously, I don't even know if you were seriously lurking or actually weren't, but I find it interesting that you're only commenting on the things that pertain to you while ignoring all the other (limited, so not even a hassle to get through) posts / comments / questions that have take place since you last posted.

You've been here for like 20 minutes and are just posting questions as defense, being passive-aggressive, and whining about why you're "so hard to read" despite the fact you've given nothing of worth to us.

The second paragraph are quotes from things you've said, I don't think it's all in one message though.

[Never Unlucky]

NU, are you going to comment on something that isn't setup spec?

Your question relates to the Supernaturals...which you also asked me about earlier in the game...and it's a question which basically asks "can the Witch force the Vig role to shoot N1 even if they don't move"

This has obvious Supernatural motivations behind it. Please explain why you decided to ask about that.

I've made comments on other players.

Why is it wrong for me to ask questions about the Supernaturals special mechanics? Obviously the Supernatural wouldn't ask a question about its faction just like the Expansionists won't ask questions about their faction.

I asked this because it wasn't mentionned in the special mechanics, and it is a scenario I can see happening.

[Never Unlucky]

Also, "Players will not be informed of who they are redirected into."

Will the players be notified that they were redirected though?

Iced_Monopoly

[Never Unlucky]

I can't even answer this because I don't have a reason for doing this. I just read everything and responded to where I saw my name mentioned.

That's what I was doing as a scum in Politico...

[Calix]

The second paragraph are quotes from things you've said, I don't think it's all in one message though.

You need to quote that or I'm not going to believe you.


I've made comments on other players.

Why is it wrong for me to ask questions about the Supernaturals special mechanics? Obviously the Supernatural wouldn't ask a question about its faction just like the Expansionists won't ask questions about their faction.

I asked this because it wasn't mentionned in the special mechanics, and it is a scenario I can see happening.

"I've done stuff already so this justifies me not doing more stuff right now."

Why is it 'obvious' that scum would not publicly ask questions about their own faction, exactly? This is just WIFOM.


Also, "Players will not be informed of who they are redirected into."

Will the players be notified that they were redirected though?

@Iced_Monopoly (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php?u=18974)

Bloody hell, mate.

[Kovath]

The second paragraph are quotes from things you've said, I don't think it's all in one message though.

I'd actually written that message earlier after you'd been posting for about 5 minutes, then I decided to wait a bit and see if you would post any other other reads and stuff of your own volition. After 20 minutes, well, I decided I didn't need to wait any longer.

If I did use any similar wording it was unintentional, and you even admitted earlier that this has no significance and you had no reason to bring it up.

[MiniZed]

So you admit to being self-centred and only responding to comments relating to you? You don't cite time constraints as a reason for this either, suggesting that external factors did not play a large role in influencing your decision.

Quote my message and the one that he 'copied' please.

Try again instead of moping and going "I don't know, man"

Sure, I've been self-centred thus far. I've read the game but didn't post on anything else because I haven't prepared myself to do so. Might be hard for you to understand me, but I'm also not asking you to.

Why do you keep saying I'm whining and moping? Does that get you anywhere actually?

[MiniZed]

I'd actually written that message earlier after you'd been posting for about 5 minutes, then I decided to wait a bit and see if you would post any other other reads and stuff of your own volition. After 20 minutes, well, I decided I didn't need to wait any longer.

If I did use any similar wording it was unintentional, and you even admitted earlier that this has no significance and you had no reason to bring it up.

Okay, but you have to realize that if you were thinking this before her, there really is no way for me to know.

I brought it up again because Calix told me to quote it. I'm not going to get the "ignoring questions comments" because I'm already not in the mood as it is.

[Kovath]

When I'm usually around consistently throughout the game, I'm always there for day 1. However, if I didn't post a lot it was because of the fact that it was my birthday, and considering I was posting in one game already. I haven't looked into the game intensely enough, so no I haven't been responding to every comment yet. I don't tend to defend myself, but if people are going to ask me questions then why shouldn't I respond?

You just copied word for word about what Calix said.

I'll give you some credit for it being your birthday, still doesn't excuse your play since you'e returned to the game.

Never Unlucky, you have the ongoing byplay and also an earlier slew of posts to comment on - why not get to those instead of focusing on mechanics questions for Iced? It feels like you're avoiding interacting further with other slots after getting some initial townreads.

[Calix]

Sure, I've been self-centred thus far. I've read the game but didn't post on anything else because I haven't prepared myself to do so. Might be hard for you to understand me, but I'm also not asking you to.

Why do you keep saying I'm whining and moping? Does that get you anywhere actually?

"I haven't prepared myself for the daunting task of responding to posts that didn't talk about me."

lmao

"Nobody understands me but I don't care - really, I don't care at all! I wouldn't ask that of you!"

Yes, it makes you look like a self-pitying wanker whose response to pressure is to sulk and stamp their foot like a little kid instead of using it to up their game and contribute.

[MiniZed]

You need to quote that or I'm not going to believe you.



"I've done stuff already so this justifies me not doing more stuff right now."

Why is it 'obvious' that scum would not publicly ask questions about their own faction, exactly? This is just WIFOM.



Bloody hell, mate.

It's irrelevant, if you don't remember saying this, go for it and call me a liar.

Why wouldn't he just PM the host privately? Then again, NU isn't known to be the quickest thinker.

[MiniZed]

"I haven't prepared myself for the daunting task of responding to posts that didn't talk about me."

lmao

"Nobody understands me but I don't care - really, I don't care at all! I wouldn't ask that of you!"

Yes, it makes you look like a self-pitying wanker whose response to pressure is to sulk and stamp their foot like a little kid instead of using it to up their game and contribute.

Okay.

[Calix]

It's irrelevant, if you don't remember saying this, go for it and call me a liar.

Why wouldn't he just PM the host privately? Then again, NU isn't known to be the quickest thinker.

The irony of Unknown throwing shade on NU's intelligence.


Okay.

Strong counterarguments to my points.

[MiniZed]

The irony of Unknown throwing shade on NU's intelligence.



Strong counterarguments to my points.

I'll be back when I'm done writing my test and someone is less toxic.

[Calix]

I'll be back when I'm done writing my test and someone is less toxic.

I haven't been 'toxic' but nice attempt at excusing why you won't give legit answers in the future.

[Kovath]

Never Unlucky is gone too...

And these other lurkers

:NotLikeThis:

[MiniZed]

I haven't been 'toxic' but nice attempt at excusing why you won't give legit answers in the future.

The insults in every post disagree with you saying that.

[Calix]

The insults in every post disagree with you saying that.

Interesting that you come back in to focus to that factually-incorrect and irrelevant point, but can't take the time to comment on something more important.

Priorities.

[Never Unlucky]

Never Unlucky, you have the ongoing byplay and also an earlier slew of posts to comment on - why not get to those instead of focusing on mechanics questions for Iced? It feels like you're avoiding interacting further with other slots after getting some initial townreads.
I'll give my reads soon. Now, more setup spec.

"Minimum 10 post count per day, with posts constituting more than 1 sentence." What happens to those (>Half the players) who have not met this requirement?

The irony of Unknown throwing shade on NU's intelligence.


can u pls explain the irony! im two much of a slow tinker to understand it?

[Calix]

I'll give my reads soon. Now, more setup spec.

"Minimum 10 post count per day, with posts constituting more than 1 sentence." What happens to those (>Half the players) who have not met this requirement?


can u pls explain the irony! im two much of a slow tinker to understand it?

That isn't even setup spec, lmao. I imagine most will get replaced as we have two replacements.

I second the reads request.

[Calix]

NU, you sure take a long time to post.

Want to explain why you keep lurking if you're not working on those reads?

[Never Unlucky]

NU, you sure take a long time to post.

Want to explain why you keep lurking if you're not working on those reads?

After doing some ISO and noticing that very little has been said, I gave up making my reads list. Only Kovath, Unknown and you have posted enough to give me a feel of your alignment. I have already commented on Darkness, Spruance and Mesk, and neither have posted since. I decided to postpone my reads because it seemed silly making a reads list with only 3 players.

[Calix]

After doing some ISO and noticing that very little has been said, I gave up making my reads list. Only Kovath, Unknown and you have posted enough to give me a feel of your alignment. I have already commented on Darkness, Spruance and Mesk, and neither have posted since. I decided to postpone my reads because it seemed silly making a reads list with only 3 players.

Reads on us three are still better than nothing.

[Spruance]

I havent disappered, and if i did... its 3am i think that should be acceptable..

anyway... Never Unlucky came out very very determined to have a convo with you, Calix.. do you not see that as potential buddying? get the smart ones attention then hide in plain sight?
"4. Explain why they are likely to use their ability N1."... answering a question with a question seems more like an trying to get change the route of the conversations so one doesn't dwell on a certain aspect

Spruance always comes off as dumb town or scum, but the only smart thing they've done before is that the old saying is that I'm always town, and he's totally recognized it... although he could know for a fact i am town... could be buddying


kovath hasn't said anything

eggy placed a policy vote

calix is calix

My ^^^ wasn't that I agreed with you on you but that it applies to myself as well lol

[DarknessB]

Catching up now -- realize I'm a bit behind so please bear with me.

[DarknessB]

My ^^^ wasn't that I agreed with you on you but that it applies to myself as well lol

I have no idea what you're trying to say with this response -- please use words, not emoticons. Yes, Mesk says that she's always Town and typically enjoys projecting that message, especially during Day 1. For what it's worth, I don't think she was as vocal with her being Town message during Return to Normalcy when she rolled scum, but I'm not basing an entire read on some weak one-time meta. Null read for now until she posts more.

[DarknessB]

I'll give my reads soon. Now, more setup spec.

"Minimum 10 post count per day, with posts constituting more than 1 sentence." What happens to those (>Half the players) who have not met this requirement?


can u pls explain the irony! im two much of a slow tinker to understand it?

I assume Iced meant per GAME day, not per calendar day, but hopefully people pick it up more.

The irony is that Unknown tends to be almost deliberately clueless a lot himself.

[DarknessB]

Also, "Players will not be informed of who they are redirected into."

Will the players be notified that they were redirected though?

@Iced_Monopoly (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php?u=18974)

I have no idea why Never Unlucky is asking random, almost WIFOM, questions about different roles. It feels a bit weird to me like he's either strategizing about how to play certain roles or attempting to look helpful by engaging in setup speculation as opposed to reads -- i.e. IIOA. I'd almost say there's a kernel of borderline scum coaching given the other questions about the supernatural role too. I just haven't seen Town do this very often in any sort of a helpful way so it catches me strangely.

[Spruance]

Well there are 7 good guys and 2 mafia and 1 serial killer. There will be a night kill until all 3 of them are dead. (assuming we never lynch me) 3/9 chance of lynching a bad guy day 1, 6/9 chance of a mislynch. Then 1/7 chance the mafia hit the serial killer, and 6/7 chance they hit a townie. Day 2 57.1% chance 5 good guys 2 mafia and 1 serial killer. (assuming I'm alive and we don't lynch me) 3/7 chance of lynching a bad guy and 4/7 chance of lynching a good guy. If mislynch then 2/6 chance of serial killer killing a mafia and 4/6 chance of killing a townie. Day 3 4/7*4/6=38.1% chance 3 good guys 2 mafia and 1 serial killer, which is most likely GG. So there is only about a 21.7% chance that we get to Day 3 with the same amount of good guys as bad guys. My point is vigilante shouldn't shoot night 1 if there is a mislynch because it will more than likely screw us over. We just need to play the odds and chill.

[Spruance]

I have no idea what you're trying to say with this response -- please use words, not emoticons. Yes, Mesk says that she's always Town and typically enjoys projecting that message, especially during Day 1. For what it's worth, I don't think she was as vocal with her being Town message during Return to Normalcy when she rolled scum, but I'm not basing an entire read on some weak one-time meta. Null read for now until she posts more.

wtf is this "she"

[Calix]

Well there are 7 good guys and 2 mafia and 1 serial killer. There will be a night kill until all 3 of them are dead. (assuming we never lynch me) 3/9 chance of lynching a bad guy day 1, 6/9 chance of a mislynch. Then 1/7 chance the mafia hit the serial killer, and 6/7 chance they hit a townie. Day 2 57.1% chance 5 good guys 2 mafia and 1 serial killer. (assuming I'm alive and we don't lynch me) 3/7 chance of lynching a bad guy and 4/7 chance of lynching a good guy. If mislynch then 2/6 chance of serial killer killing a mafia and 4/6 chance of killing a townie. Day 3 4/7*4/6=38.1% chance 3 good guys 2 mafia and 1 serial killer, which is most likely GG. So there is only about a 21.7% chance that we get to Day 3 with the same amount of good guys as bad guys. My point is vigilante shouldn't shoot night 1 if there is a mislynch because it will more than likely screw us over. We just need to play the odds and chill.

This is the most obvious paragraph to ever exist. How many brain cells did you sacrifice to produce this, exactly?

Do you have any idea of who the scum might be?

[DarknessB]

Sure, I've been self-centred thus far. I've read the game but didn't post on anything else because I haven't prepared myself to do so. Might be hard for you to understand me, but I'm also not asking you to.

Why do you keep saying I'm whining and moping? Does that get you anywhere actually?

Focusing on yourself is the definition of survivalist in nature. Yes, we've seen examples of players adopting this approach who weren't scum, but scum have a lot more of a motivation to stay alive to winning the game, especially solo scum like the supernatural. If you're Town, you should be scumhunting and questioning players, not moping about yourself.

I'm going to ignore the nonsense about "being prepared", but just saying this admission of being self-centered is anti-town at best and scummy at worst.

[DarknessB]

wtf is this "she"

Mesk is female. And, I'm glad we're really getting in to the substance posts from you, Spruance...

[Spruance]

This is the most obvious paragraph to ever exist. How many brain cells did you sacrifice to produce this, exactly?

Do you have any idea of who the scum might be?

Well it has been a while since you have been scum so by meta probably you.

[Spruance]

Mesk is female. And, I'm glad we're really getting in to the substance posts from you, Spruance...

Bruh you're the one at L-4

[Calix]

Well it has been a while since you have been scum so by meta probably you.

Firstly, you're committing Gambler's Fallacy. That's not using meta.

Secondly, that is a terrible reason to scum-read someone when there is actual content to read.

Please show the rest of the class how I am scummy to you.

And while you're at it, who else is scum? Three of them exist.

[Calix]

Bruh you're the one at L-4

Why would the number of votes on a player invalidate their opinion?

Why are you not voting?

Why are you acting like scum if you're supposedly town?

[DarknessB]

Literally, the reason I responded to his vote was because of his direct comment on MattZed, where as being MiniZed my ACT was to defend him. There's nothing else to really say there.

Gyrlander said something which I felt could not respond to.

This is off the charts cringeworthy, lol. Justifying an OMGUS vote as roleplaying? I have no problem with you using a smurf, but it shouldn't be affecting your actual substantive ability to play the game. If this is your scumplay, it's really shit the bed since the Beginner's Game...

[Mesk514]

It's well-established that Mesk's post was weird as fuck

hush up you troll, nothing i ever say is weird as fuck compared to half the things the rest of this community says.

[Spruance]

Firstly, you're committing Gambler's Fallacy. That's not using meta.

Secondly, that is a terrible reason to scum-read someone when there is actual content to read.

Please show the rest of the class how I am scummy to you.

And while you're at it, who else is scum? Three of them exist.

How the hell am I supposed to read you when you play the exact same regardless or your alignment or if you are TPR or not...

[Spruance]

Why would the number of votes on a player invalidate their opinion?

Why are you not voting?

Why are you acting like scum if you're supposedly town?

What does acting like scum even mean? Not all of us can figure out who is scum based on day 1 posts...

[Calix]

hush up you troll, nothing i ever say is weird as fuck compared to half the things the rest of this community says.

"Other people are worse so my behaviour is acceptable. Also I'm going to discredit you by calling you a troll."

Mesk, I sincerely hope you're responding to the rest of the thread as well :)


How the hell am I supposed to read you when you play the exact same regardless or your alignment or if you are TPR or not...

You can give it a try. Shitty, incorrect reads > no reads.

Interesting that you specify "TPR or not" as opposed to "town or not" - skewed priorities that exist because you need to find the TPRs, perhaps?

[Calix]

What does acting like scum even mean? Not all of us can figure out who is scum based on day 1 posts...

It means you are behaving like someone with a scum rolecard would, duh.

Answer the rest of the questions or you're as good as claiming scum there, mate.

[DarknessB]

Grand Witch
"Has a two charge ability to redirect the actions of players at night. Can select up to 2 players per night and redirect each of them individually into any other player."

Voodoo Doctor
"Has a one-time ability to randomly redirect all players’ night actions into other players."

If a player does not submit an action for a night and the Voodoo Doctor/Grand Witch uses its night ability, is the said player forced to commit an action? ie: Blowgun warrior chooses not to shoot a poison dart N1 and the SN uses its ability. Would the Blowgun warrior be forced to do a night action?

@Iced_Monopoly (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php?u=18974)

Flagging this post for further consideration. I might understand if Never Unlucky was trying to soft claim having received some night feedback later in the game, but asking strategy questions about scum roles during Day 1 for no particular reason is odd at best, scummy at worst. I don't like it.

[Spruance]

It means you are behaving like someone with a scum rolecard would, duh.

Answer the rest of the questions or you're as good as claiming scum there, mate.

What does that mean? When you have a scum rolecard you play exactly the same. So do most other people...

[Never Unlucky]

Reads on us three are still better than nothing.

Sorry, I cannot even make reads with AI arguments on you and Kovath. I've been sitting here for 25 minutes now, and all I have written was moreso describing the player's meta than it was AI. For instance, I had "Very critical of Gyrlander, Mesk and MiniZed's posts. I like that. / Other than his first post, nothing pinged suspicious to me" for Kovath."

If I had to give gut reads, I'd say Calix and Kovath lean-town, Unknown scum.

I've noted a few AI things for Unknown though.

Unknown replied "??" in response to Kovath's vote. From my SC2 mod experience, players who respond with question marks or "why me" are always scum. Now, this isn't mod mafia, and I'm not sure if this rule is true in this version. He is also playing similarly to scum!me in Politico as he replies only when prompted. Moreover, currently, all of his posts go against his arrogant-sure-of-himself-town-meta. He's actually kind of the opposite with posts such as "The insults in every post disagree with you saying that." suggesting he is playing the victim card.

[Spruance]

Interesting that you specify "TPR or not" as opposed to "town or not" - skewed priorities that exist because you need to find the TPRs, perhaps?

I said both... I specified TPR or not to emphasize that "reading" people provides little and usually no information.

[Calix]

What does that mean? When you have a scum rolecard you play exactly the same. So do most other people...

Are you deliberately being obtuse or are you using the "everyone acts the same as all alignments" schtick to avoid giving reads?

If you actually thought that people play the same as all alignments, you wouldn't sign in the first place because it's as good as RNG in your eyes. Thus I'm concluding that you're making this up as scum.

Reads or GTFO pls.

[Spruance]

Are you deliberately being obtuse or are you using the "everyone acts the same as all alignments" schtick to avoid giving reads?

If you actually thought that people play the same as all alignments, you wouldn't sign in the first place because it's as good as RNG in your eyes. Thus I'm concluding that you're making this up as scum.

Reads or GTFO pls.

I have never been scum so I wouldn't know if I would act differently. But honestly day 1 is good as RNG, but later days trends and reversals become more apparent.

[DarknessB]

You make it sound like my RP is AI. I was Planning on RP'ing no matter what allignment anyways.

Why in god's name were you planning on roleplaying again? The idea is to find the scum, not occupy the day with nonsense. The only saving grace you might have would be if this is some attempt to channel SuperJack and roleplay / post nonsense to avoid a d1 lynch or n1 target. While that has tended to be townplay (at least when done by SJ), it's brutal for the quality of the game. That having been said, you just admitted you were going to roleplay regarding of what you rolled so I guess even that explanation is gone.

[Spruance]

Are you deliberately being obtuse or are you using the "everyone acts the same as all alignments" schtick to avoid giving reads?

If you actually thought that people play the same as all alignments, you wouldn't sign in the first place because it's as good as RNG in your eyes. Thus I'm concluding that you're making this up as scum.

Reads or GTFO pls.

You yourself said that you read people the exact same regardless of the game they play in... Like as to you I am always neutral/scum but the fact is I have never been either of those.

[Calix]

Sorry, I cannot even make reads with AI arguments on you and Kovath. I've been sitting here for 25 minutes now, and all I have written was moreso describing the player's meta than it was AI. For instance, I had "Very critical of Gyrlander, Mesk and MiniZed's posts. I like that. / Other than his first post, nothing pinged suspicious to me" for Kovath."

If I had to give gut reads, I'd say Calix and Kovath lean-town, Unknown scum.

I've noted a few AI things for Unknown though.

Unknown replied "??" in response to Kovath's vote. From my SC2 mod experience, players who respond with question marks or "why me" are always scum. Now, this isn't mod mafia, and I'm not sure if this rule is true in this version. He is also playing similarly to scum!me in Politico as he replies only when prompted. Moreover, currently, all of his posts go against his arrogant-sure-of-himself-town-meta. He's actually kind of the opposite with posts such as "The insults in every post disagree with you saying that." suggesting he is playing the victim card.

Why do you have an aversion to using meta in your reads? If you want to use meta then you are welcome to try it.

I don't know enough about mod play to comment on that so I will see how other mod players respond to your logic there.

The rest of your Unknown read is acceptable although I think you are making the error of thinking about how YOU would respond in Unknown's shoes. Given that Unknown will have a different way of seeing the game regardless of alignment from you, this isn't going to result in terribly accurate reads.

[DarknessB]

So Gyrloser's reached the point where scumslip is the only way we can lynch him...???

Oh god. But if he doesn't post, how can he scumslip?

Eh, not to get too much into meta, but I think this conversation basically encourages Gyrlander to continue his deplorable play as a "get out of lynching" free card. I'm not comfortable ruling out a lynch based on "too scummy to be scum" type play because that has bitten us in the ass before with certain players who have a default scummy meta (Gyrlander himself in other games, Stealthbomber16, etc.). You don't get a pass merely because you always act scummy.

[Calix]

I have never been scum so I wouldn't know if I would act differently. But honestly day 1 is good as RNG, but later days trends and reversals become more apparent.

The entire point of mafia is to spot the differences between town and scum.

If you care about trends, then you'd figure that reads would factor into that. You are making it harder for people to read you by not giving any at all.


You yourself said that you read people the exact same regardless of the game they play in... Like as to you I am always neutral/scum but the fact is I have never been either of those.

Where did I say that?

If you stopped playing like neutral/ scum then you might not have this problem as often ;)

[Never Unlucky]

Flagging this post for further consideration. I might understand if Never Unlucky was trying to soft claim having received some night feedback later in the game, but asking strategy questions about scum roles during Day 1 for no particular reason is odd at best, scummy at worst. I don't like it.

I really have no fucking idea why I asked both those questions. The answers don't even interest me.

Spruance shitposting rather than coming back on some things after 147 posts...
Yet again REFUSING to do anything beneficial to the town. Spruance

[Spruance]

The entire point of mafia is to spot the differences between town and scum.

If you care about trends, then you'd figure that reads would factor into that. You are making it harder for people to read you by not giving any at all.



Where did I say that?

If you stopped playing like neutral/ scum then you might not have this problem as often ;)

Lmao we will have to agree to disagree because my eventual reads are right as often as yours and you have to judge people differently... Not on your scale of how you believe people should play.

[DarknessB]

What does that mean? When you have a scum rolecard you play exactly the same. So do most other people...

This isn't true at all -- many players have a distinct meta when they roll scum vs. town. It's hard to hide the fact that you have player / role information if you are groupscum or scumhunt sometimes if that's not your role's goal. If you've reached this conclusion, then what is the purpose of playing Mafia at all?

[Spruance]

Never Unlucky

Before you ask yes I am voting him because he voted me and I disagree with his viewpoint.

[Calix]

Lmao we will have to agree to disagree because my eventual reads are right as often as yours and you have to judge people differently... Not on your scale of how you believe people should play.

That's a cocky claim for you to make, lmao.

I wouldn't describe you as playing as much as you are stating the obvious and adamantly refusing to give reads.

Can you just do something? :rolleyes:

[Calix]

Never Unlucky

Before you ask yes I am voting him because he voted me and I disagree with his viewpoint.

What about his viewpoint do you disagree with...

[Spruance]

This isn't true at all -- many players have a distinct meta when they roll scum vs. town. It's hard to hide the fact that you have player / role information if you are groupscum or scumhunt sometimes if that's not your role's goal. If you've reached this conclusion, then what is the purpose of playing Mafia at all?

My argument is day 1 is RNG I can make reads as people start to slip. I'm not going to go back and look at how each individual person played in past games, I evaluate based on how they progress and react in the game I am playing. If you want to lynch me because I disagree with mainstream opinion then by all means lynch away.

[Spruance]

What about his viewpoint do you disagree with...

That I am REFUSING to contribute

[Calix]

Gyrloser, enjoy getting replaced/ mod-killed if you don't contribute more. It's in the rules :)

[DarknessB]

The entire point of mafia is to spot the differences between town and scum.

If you care about trends, then you'd figure that reads would factor into that. You are making it harder for people to read you by not giving any at all.



Where did I say that?

If you stopped playing like neutral/ scum then you might not have this problem as often ;)

Helz has actually written about this with a very helpful three part test. Effective town need people to read them as Town, need to come up with the right leads, and need to be able push those leads. If you're not doing all three, you're not going to be effective because either you will be scumread (and lynched yourself), have the wrong suspicions (cause mislynches), or no one will listen to your efforts to push (your correct leads don't get any traction).

[Calix]

That I am REFUSING to contribute

Just so I get an understanding of where you are coming from...what qualifies as contribution to you?

[Spruance]

Gyrloser, enjoy getting replaced/ mod-killed if you don't contribute more. It's in the rules :)

Also like I said in past games it's better to wait for everyone to post than pressure only the people who try to contribute.

[Spruance]

Just so I get an understanding of where you are coming from...what qualifies as contribution to you?

Drawing people out and encouraging them to formulate an opinion on my behavior.

[Spruance]

Just so I get an understanding of where you are coming from...what qualifies as contribution to you?

Drawing people out and encouraging them to formulate an opinion of varying strength on my behavior.

[Spruance]

rip double post

[DarknessB]

That I am REFUSING to contribute

Spruance, one line posts just clog the game and don't give us much to analyze. This isn't a chat room -- if you need time to think about what to say, take that time, but these responses are crap and anti-town at the very least.

[DarknessB]

Also like I said in past games it's better to wait for everyone to post than pressure only the people who try to contribute.

This leads to the scum players never participating or participating very minimally, because they're never going to be pushed to do so. Better to have some conversation among those who are here than no conversation at all.

[Spruance]

This leads to the scum players never participating or participating very minimally, because they're never going to be pushed to do so. Better to have some conversation among those who are here than no conversation at all.

So then wouldn't it be a better strategy to lurk because you won't get pressured? Everyone says lurking is wrong but the players who lurk tend to avoid pressure and night kills...

[DarknessB]

Are you deliberately being obtuse or are you using the "everyone acts the same as all alignments" schtick to avoid giving reads?

If you actually thought that people play the same as all alignments, you wouldn't sign in the first place because it's as good as RNG in your eyes. Thus I'm concluding that you're making this up as scum.

Reads or GTFO pls.

I know I haven't played with Spruance in some time, but he seems more feeble in this game than in others he's played lately? Do you regard that as AI in any way? I mean, we're literally having a conversation about how it's useless to try to read people because they act the same whether they're scum or not. This is in lieu of any actual reads from him or contribution.

[Calix]

So then wouldn't it be a better strategy to lurk because you won't get pressured? Everyone says lurking is wrong but the players who lurk tend to avoid pressure and night kills...

What is the point of signing up if you aren't going to post? Defeats the purpose of the game (deceiving the town, finding the scum, etc) because nobody can read you.

[DarknessB]

So then wouldn't it be a better strategy to lurk because you won't get pressured? Everyone says lurking is wrong but the players who lurk tend to avoid pressure and night kills...

Yes, and that makes for crap games. If everyone lurks, then there's no game whatsoever. That might work in the mod or TPR madness type games, but it doesn't work in most FMs where a large chunk of the players are Citizens. Lurking ruins games -- don't be that person.

[Gyrlander]

I was in the fucking town center, for fucks sake.

[Spruance]

What is the point of signing up if you aren't going to post? Defeats the purpose of the game (deceiving the town, finding the scum, etc) because nobody can read you.

Well people can read me as you said but it is always wrong, so when in doubt with me I'll be the opposite lmao.

[Calix]

I know I haven't played with Spruance in some time, but he seems more feeble in this game than in others he's played lately? Do you regard that as AI in any way? I mean, we're literally having a conversation about how it's useless to try to read people because they act the same whether they're scum or not. This is in lieu of any actual reads from him or contribution.

I regard it as suspicious because he is mostly posting to defend this tactic, meanwhile not having contributed anything outside of that other than "lol I agree with Mesk, I am always town!" and "lol NU is scum because he said I was REFUSING TO CONTRIBUTE GUISE" and the beautiful "we have X% chance of lynching correctly and mislynching on D1 and D2 and vig shouldn't shoot N1 lol"

Amazing.

[Iced_Monopoly]

Grand Witch
"Has a two charge ability to redirect the actions of players at night. Can select up to 2 players per night and redirect each of them individually into any other player."

Voodoo Doctor
"Has a one-time ability to randomly redirect all players’ night actions into other players."

If a player does not submit an action for a night and the Voodoo Doctor/Grand Witch uses its night ability, is the said player forced to commit an action? ie: Blowgun warrior chooses not to shoot a poison dart N1 and the SN uses its ability. Would the Blowgun warrior be forced to do a night action?

Iced_Monopoly

The grand witch would force a player to perform their night action on a player. The Voodoo doctor does not force actions, only redirects.

[Never Unlucky]

Why do you have an aversion to using meta in your reads? If you want to use meta then you are welcome to try it.

I don't know enough about mod play to comment on that so I will see how other mod players respond to your logic there.

The rest of your Unknown read is acceptable although I think you are making the error of thinking about how YOU would respond in Unknown's shoes. Given that Unknown will have a different way of seeing the game regardless of alignment from you, this isn't going to result in terribly accurate reads.

It's not that I have an aversion about meta, it's that I was describing your and Kovath's plays rather than giving an analysis on them. Ex(All of which are NAI): Makes logical posts, is critical of others' posts, pressures other players, etc.

-

Your point is right, but I still think that it's a good way of finding the scum and that it is not necessarily an error as you say.


Also, I'm liking Darkness's posts so far. I like the fact that he/she/it had original comments on everyone's posts, including mine. I was surprised and happy that this player did not copy Calix's concerns on my setup specs questions.

[Kovath]

Lurking is like free-riding in this sense: If one person does it, it will benefit them, perhaps with some cost to other people. But with that logic, then everyone does it and in the end the whole thing goes to shit because no one puts in effort.

DB, perhaps start moving toward more slot-specific and alignment reads rather than game theory - type discussion.

[Gyrlander]

I'm pretty sure you guys should stop talking about lurking. It just encourages it.

[Kovath]

I'm pretty sure you guys should stop talking about lurking. It just encourages it.

Shut the fk up and play the game you scrublord.

[DarknessB]

I regard it as suspicious because he is mostly posting to defend this tactic, meanwhile not having contributed anything outside of that other than "lol I agree with Mesk, I am always town!" and "lol NU is scum because he said I was REFUSING TO CONTRIBUTE GUISE" and the beautiful "we have X% chance of lynching correctly and mislynching on D1 and D2 and vig shouldn't shoot N1 lol"

Amazing.

I feel like players who are intent on having meta conversations vs. engaging in the actual game are more likely to be scum. Spruance has played enough by this point that he should know a thing or two about scumhunting. He lasted a while in the M-FM if I recall, so why the sudden regression in player ability? Maybe he's having problems pretending to scumhunt if he's scum? There's also the risk of this just being another Spruance being Spruance type game though. Ugh...

[DarknessB]

I'm pretty sure you guys should stop talking about lurking. It just encourages it.

Dude, I understand it's going to take you a little time to catch up, but there are barely any posts so far -- we're only at 200 or so posts, so that's not even a great excuse.

[Iced_Monopoly]

Also, "Players will not be informed of who they are redirected into."

Will the players be notified that they were redirected though?

Iced_Monopoly

Yes

Voodoo Doctor/Grand Witch Target
“You step from your home feeling dazed and confused, you know what you have to do tonight, but who were you supposed to visit again? You’re drawn to a nearby hut, you decide to barge into it and conduct your business!”

[Gyrlander]

Shut the fk up and play the game you scrublord.

I'm talking, sweetie. I just showed my oppinion about you talking about something unnecesarry.

[Calix]

It's not that I have an aversion about meta, it's that I was describing your and Kovath's plays rather than giving an analysis on them. Ex(All of which are NAI): Makes logical posts, is critical of others' posts, pressures other players, etc.

-

Your point is right, but I still think that it's a good way of finding the scum and that it is not necessarily an error as you say.


Also, I'm liking Darkness's posts so far. I like the fact that he/she/it had original comments on everyone's posts, including mine. I was surprised and happy that this player did not copy Calix's concerns on my setup specs questions.

Those are still useful additions to a read. Even if being logical, etc, is not particularly AI it helps reinforce that impression.

It's a starting point for finding scum but considering other perspectives is important as well.

While I can see where you are coming from with DB making original points, I got the impression that he was going for the low-hanging fruit/ cutting to NAI complaints a little too often in his catch-up for me to be comfortable.

[DarknessB]

Lurking is like free-riding in this sense: If one person does it, it will benefit them, perhaps with some cost to other people. But with that logic, then everyone does it and in the end the whole thing goes to shit because no one puts in effort.

DB, perhaps start moving toward more slot-specific and alignment reads rather than game theory - type discussion.

Heh, can I point out the irony in you telling me to focus on alignment reads vs. game theory when your lead in is itself about lurking game theory? :)

[Calix]

I'm talking, sweetie. I just showed my oppinion about you talking about something unnecesarry.

This kind of post (read: the stubbornness) is why I stick by my town-read on Gyrloser.

[Kovath]

Heh, can I point out the irony in you telling me to focus on alignment reads vs. game theory when your lead in is itself about lurking game theory? :)

I'm aware of the irony, but I was responding to a particular comment; either way, the bulk of your recent responses have been game-theory-centric or demurring on giving alignment reads when commenting on stuff.

Doesn't make my point less valid at all or justify your non-substantive response for that matter.

[DarknessB]

This kind of post (read: the stubbornness) is why I stick by my town-read on Gyrloser.

I can sort of see that in the same way that Firebringer tends to be far more flippant when he rolls Town. For example, Mafia Wars I (flippant and town, to the point of wasting night actions to troll) vs. PM 1.0 (more serious and scum). The idea being if you're Town, you have nothing to hide, so you can be more loose.

[Calix]

I can sort of see that in the same way that Firebringer tends to be far more flippant when he rolls Town. For example, Mafia Wars I (flippant and town, to the point of wasting night actions to troll) vs. PM 1.0 (more serious and scum). The idea being if you're Town, you have nothing to hide, so you can be more loose.

I am starting to relate more to Kovath's POV with regards to your post. You sound like a narrator.

[Gyrlander]

This kind of post (read: the stubbornness) is why I stick by my town-read on Gyrloser.

I think this is a little strange. Normally you read me as scum in every game and claim that I'm useless as fuck but this one you say "my way of not giving a fuck is town-read"... That's my meta and it is really strange you're trying to town-read me for it.

Calix

[Kovath]

I'm talking, sweetie. I just showed my oppinion about you talking about something unnecesarry.

And you don't have anything else to talk about after finishing this enlightening comment?

[Kovath]

I think this is a little strange. Normally you read me as scum in every game and claim that I'm useless as fuck but this one you say "my way of not giving a fuck is town-read"... That's my meta and it is really strange you're trying to town-read me for it.

Calix

Looks like he did have something to say LOL

Is she not saying you're useless this game, then?

[Spruance]

If you care so much about my reads here they are.

p.s. Calix don't you dare ask me to explain them!



TOWN
Spruance
Calix
Mesk514
Never Unlucky
MiniZed

SCUM
Eggy


NULL
RLVG
Kovath
Gyrlander
DarknessB

[Calix]

I think this is a little strange. Normally you read me as scum in every game and claim that I'm useless as fuck but this one you say "my way of not giving a fuck is town-read"... That's my meta and it is really strange you're trying to town-read me for it.

Calix

I rest my case.

Not sure why everyone thinks it's weird that I am trying to town-clear people when I have stated on multiple occasions that POE will solve the game though.

[Spruance]

Eggy

Might as well place an appropriate vote. Also Never Unlucky should have been in the null.

[Kovath]

I rest my case.

Not sure why everyone thinks it's weird that I am trying to town-clear people when I have stated on multiple occasions that POE will solve the game though.

You're usually reticent with your townreads, or at least explaining them. Is there something distinctive about them being more tone-based this game?

[Calix]

If you care so much about my reads here they are.

p.s. Calix don't you dare ask me to explain them!



TOWN
Spruance
Calix
Mesk514
Never Unlucky
MiniZed

SCUM
Eggy


NULL
RLVG
Kovath
Gyrlander
DarknessB

You might not explain them, but you should 100% explain your switch from "Calix is scum because of teh metas" to "town-read"

[DarknessB]

Eggy

Might as well place an appropriate vote. Also Never Unlucky should have been in the null.

Why is Eggy your lead scum candidate? Seems odd to be voting someone who isn't even here -- I feel like that shuts down conversation vs. adds to it, especially when there's no justification provided for the vote.

[Calix]

You're usually reticent with your townreads, or at least explaining them. Is there something distinctive about them being more tone-based this game?

I still am being reserved with my town-reads. Only explaining it for Gyrloser because of his reputation and the risk of him being policy-lynched when I don't feel like that would work out well this game.

As for tone/ emotional reads, everyone was being completely useless so I decided to resort to those to try and sort players. Even though people are actually doing shit now, I am going to continue using them for consistency's sake.

[Spruance]

You might not explain them, but you should 100% explain your switch from "Calix is scum because of teh metas" to "town-read"

You play like town every game so starting the game you will always be in the town category. I said that because you have an equal chance of being scum each time and it's annoying that you will never be a day 1 lynch.

[Spruance]

Why is Eggy your lead scum candidate? Seems odd to be voting someone who isn't even here -- I feel like that shuts down conversation vs. adds to it, especially when there's no justification provided for the vote.

because he scum slipped lmao

[Never Unlucky]

If you care so much about my reads here they are.

p.s. Calix don't you dare ask me to explain them!



TOWN
Spruance
Calix
Mesk514
Never Unlucky
MiniZed

SCUM
Eggy


NULL
RLVG
Kovath
Gyrlander
DarknessB

Your only scum-read is someone who's posted ONCE? Why?

Why am I a town-read if you have voted me?

Why are you town-reading MiniZed? Mesk?

[Spruance]

Your only scum-read is someone who's posted ONCE? Why?

Why am I a town-read if you have voted me?

Why are you town-reading MiniZed? Mesk?

read the thread scrub

[Calix]

You play like town every game so starting the game you will always be in the town category. I said that because you have an equal chance of being scum each time and it's annoying that you will never be a day 1 lynch.

You said that people play the same as all alignments.

Now you say that I play like town, implying different alignments play differently.

CONTRADICTION DETECTED.

Annoyed that your pool of D1 mislynches is smaller? ;)


because he scum slipped lmao

How? Please explain how he did that.

[Never Unlucky]

read the thread scrub

3 questions "answered" with one "answer"...

How has Eggy slipped in his ONE post?

[Spruance]

You said that people play the same as all alignments.

Now you say that I play like town, implying different alignments play differently.

CONTRADICTION DETECTED.

Annoyed that your pool of D1 mislynches is smaller? ;)



How? Please explain how he did that.

YOU always play like town. Most experienced players with no lives always play like town, at least day 1. Other people perhaps not as much.

[DarknessB]

I feel like Spruance is playing a little too cautiously with these reads. Annotations in cyan:


If you care so much about my reads here they are.

p.s. Calix don't you dare ask me to explain them!



TOWN
Spruance (himself)
Calix (has been here, posting heavily, and pushing players -- i.e. might not want to get on her bad side)
Mesk514 (has not been too active so far)
Never Unlucky (has been here, posting moderately heavily, and not afraid to push either)
MiniZed (was active before, but in a trolling / reactionary way)

SCUM
Eggy (somewhat inactive)


NULL
RLVG (inactive)
Kovath (somewhat active)
Gyrlander (more or less inactive, shitposting)
DarknessB (becoming more active)


Basically, 4/5 Town-reads have been active, the null pile is a mixed bag (more inactive than active, IMO), and the one scum read has been virtually AFK. Either Spruance is equivocating posting with being Town-sided or he's being risk-averse by town-reading the active players so they don't push him.

[Spruance]

3 questions "answered" with one "answer"...

How has Eggy slipped in his ONE post?

If you can't see it in the few characters he posted then you're hopeless.

[Calix]

YOU always play like town. Most experienced players with no lives always play like town, at least day 1. Other people perhaps not as much.

Sorry, but your ad hoc does not explain how ANYONE in your eyes can "play like town" when you literally said that people play the same way as all alignments.

[Spruance]

I feel like Spruance is playing a little too cautiously with these reads. Annotations in cyan:



Basically, 4/5 Town-reads have been active, the null pile is a mixed bag (more inactive than active, IMO), and the one scum read has been virtually AFK. Either Spruance is equivocating posting with being Town-sided or he's being risk-averse by town-reading the active players so they don't push him.

never unlucky was a null! xd

[Spruance]

Sorry, but your ad hoc does not explain how ANYONE in your eyes can "play like town" when you literally said that people play the same way as all alignments.

You're just confusing me rip.

[Never Unlucky]

YOU always play like town. Most experienced players with no lives always play like town, at least day 1. Other people perhaps not as much.

Lol, this guy associates experienced players and no life. Now answer my questions pl0x.

Also, you say that you town-read calix because she can't be lynched day 1? wat

Calix , white is reserved to the host :o

[DarknessB]

If you can't see it in the few characters he posted then you're hopeless.

Please spell it out for us.

[Spruance]

I feel like Spruance is playing a little too cautiously with these reads. Annotations in cyan:



Basically, 4/5 Town-reads have been active, the null pile is a mixed bag (more inactive than active, IMO), and the one scum read has been virtually AFK. Either Spruance is equivocating posting with being Town-sided or he's being risk-averse by town-reading the active players so they don't push him.

My reads aren't based on post count rofl

[Calix]

I feel like Spruance is playing a little too cautiously with these reads. Annotations in cyan:



Basically, 4/5 Town-reads have been active, the null pile is a mixed bag (more inactive than active, IMO), and the one scum read has been virtually AFK. Either Spruance is equivocating posting with being Town-sided or he's being risk-averse by town-reading the active players so they don't push him.

While your general point is accurate...did you just describe NU as 'not afraid to push' players? Seems like an odd characterisation that I'd like for you to explain.

[Spruance]

Is there only one page? Ive never opened a thread with only one page lol.. feels strange
kovath

Join Date: May 2016

"feels strange"

[Spruance]

also kovath wasn't capitalized

[Iced_Monopoly]

You said that people play the same as all alignments.

Now you say that I play like town, implying different alignments play differently.

CONTRADICTION DETECTED.

Annoyed that your pool of D1 mislynches is smaller? ;)



How? Please explain how he did that.

White will be reserved for host to answer in

[Never Unlucky]

If you can't see it in the few characters he posted then you're hopeless.
If you can't point it out and are expecting th town to follow you to lynch Eggy, you are beyond hopeless. (You are already hopeless)

never unlucky was a null! xd

This just reinforces his/her point.

[Calix]

You're just confusing me rip.

This part of your mafia strategy, to act dumber than usual so that people don't take you seriously? Not gonna work, boo.

Explain how those two statements of your don't contradict each other big-time.


Lol, this guy associates experienced players and no life. Now answer my questions pl0x.

Also, you say that you town-read calix because she can't be lynched day 1? wat

@Calix (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php?u=27116) , white is reserved to the host :o

RIP me then.

[Calix]

Join Date: May 2016

"feels strange"


also kovath wasn't capitalized

You've got to be taking the piss.

Please be six, please.

[Never Unlucky]

While your general point is accurate...did you just describe NU as 'not afraid to push' players? Seems like an odd characterisation that I'd like for you to explain.

Even I disagreed to this, lol. Please explain, Darkness.

[DarknessB]

While your general point is accurate...did you just describe NU as 'not afraid to push' players? Seems like an odd characterisation that I'd like for you to explain.

Never Unlucky has at various times attempted to prod a number of players, including Mesk, myself, Spruance, Kovath, and others. He's been more proactive in prodding, which tends to be a Town quality, in terms of getting thoughts out of people. Admittedly, many of his prods haven't been successful, but it's something, especially given how this game began.

[Spruance]

You've got to be taking the piss.

Please be six, please.

After the game say that again. Eggy is scum. More likely than any other player here.

[Never Unlucky]

Join Date: May 2016

"feels strange"


also kovath wasn't capitalized

I demand to be replaced.

Not really.

[Spruance]

And yes Calix, those statements slightly contradicted themselves but they were used in different contexts. I said people play the same as all alignments, hence their play style. I said Calix is always a town read because his play style is always pressuring people and giving reads, which is commonly associated with playing like town. I have to reconcile my personal viewpoints with the general ones at some point.

[DarknessB]

After the game say that again. Eggy is scum. More likely than any other player here.

How have you reached that strong of a conclusion on Eggy given he's posted one or something in this game? By the same logic, wouldn't RLVG be scum?