Villageliu: 1-S2-1-636838; Nero: 1-S2-1-414181

[Unknown1234]

Account Name: NightAxe
Account ID: 1-S2-1-1408513
In-Game Name: Geronimo Marino

Crimes Committed: Rolequitting

Your Account Name: Unknown

Summary:
Rolls Doctor.
Day 1: Quits game.

* * * * *
Account Name: Nero
Account ID: 1-S2-1-414181
In-Game Name: GONNA CHOO

Crimes Committed: Inciting Leave Train

Summary: Rolls Auditor.
Names himself "GONNA CHOO" implying his intentions.
Day 1: says "CHUGGA CHUGGA CHOOOOOOOOOOOO!" and leaves. He ended up causing a leave-train that happened over time.

I don't think that this setup was too troll TBH, and so i don't think the actions of leaving the game were justified, Especially the role quit.

20842

[Mesk514]

SC ID VERIFICATION
NightAxe: Correct - 1-S2-1-1408513
Nero: Correct - 1-S2-1-414181

Players Added to Report
Villageliu: 1-S2-1-636838

Respective Hotkeys
NightAxe: E
Nero: CTRL + 3
Villageliu: 4

Was the Game Result altered?
Yes, going into night 1 there was only 10 players as opposed to 15.

Summary
Events in order:

- While Game is being setup Nero says Repick or ChooChoo
- Villageliu names himself "CHOOCHOOFTW"
- Nero names himself "GONNA CHOO"
- Villageliu leaves the game before name setup ends
- Day 1 starts, NightAxe roles Doctor and leaves immediately
- Nero say "Gonna Choo, Chugga Chugga"
- Nero leaves the game 5 seconds into day 1
- 2 other people follow him.

Previous Offenses
NightAxe - None

Nero - Cheating: http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/35984-Villageliu-1-S2-1-636838-Nero-1-S2-1-414181?highlight=1-S2-1-414181
Leaving Train: http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/31498-Nero-1-S2-1-414181?highlight=1-S2-1-414181

Villageliu - Leave Train: http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/31498-Nero-1-S2-1-414181?highlight=1-S2-1-636838
Cheating: http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/35984-Villageliu-1-S2-1-636838-Nero-1-S2-1-414181?highlight=1-S2-1-636838
Game Throwing: http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37244-Villageliu-1-S2-1-636838?highlight=1-S2-1-636838

Player Offenses
NightAxe: Role Quitting
Nero: Leave Train
Villageliu: Leave Train

Recommended Action
NightAxe: Ignored
Nero: Watch List x4
Villageliu: Ban List x2


Additional Notes
Thank You for your report! NightAxe was listed as a new player at the beginning and Nero + Villageliu were being a little rowdy so I believe it is acceptable to give them some sort of understanding. It is also clear that it is a reoccurring thing that Nero and Villageliu get reported together and it would probably be best for one of the two to take a little brake.

[Arrow]

1-S2-1-414181: 4x WL
1-S2-1-636838: Upped to 2x Banlist

[KingNero]

I contest these spurious and unsubstantiated accusations. Mafia, at it's heart, is a game about democracy and social justice. The room has the ability to select a save that is acceptable to all. The fact that 5 people left (1/3 of the room) tells you that many people were upset with the setup. The host was warned by several players that picking a bad save would result in people leaving. Players should never be forced to play games that involve terrible saves.

Furthermore, I have a huge problem with the staff member that reviewed this game and rendered the decision. For starters, he does not know to spell very well, and I doubt he speaks English as a first language or above a 7th grade level. I feel it is unfair to have human beings of inferior competence reviewing games where they can render consequences: if he doesn't use the right form of "break" and does not have an understanding of homophones, than I don't think this person should be reviewing games.

Furthermore, I believe I have the right to face my accuser and share my side of the story before a consequence should be rendered (which I have just done above). I do not think I should have been added to any watch list just because a poor host selected a save that 1/3 of the room rejected. I respectfully demand my consequence me rescinded and that the moderator that reviewed my case go back and graduate from junior high school.

Thanks,

Nero

[Gyrlander]

Please, have some respect when speaking to others, specially to the staff that spends their time to review reports.

[DarknessB]

I have considered your request for an appeal. My response is below in cyan.


I contest these spurious and unsubstantiated accusations. Mafia, at it's heart, is a game about democracy and social justice. The room has the ability to select a save that is acceptable to all. The fact that 5 people left (1/3 of the room) tells you that many people were upset with the setup. The host was warned by several players that picking a bad save would result in people leaving. Players should never be forced to play games that involve terrible saves.

The in-game function for expressing dissatisfaction with a save is -repick, not threatening to incite a leave train if you don't get your way. If you don't like a save, you can -repick or silently leave the game. Try to incite other people to do the same is explicitly against the rules. No one is forcing you to play a game involving a "terrible save" -- if you don't like the save, then vote with your feet by leaving yourself, but don't ruin other people's enjoyment of that save by trying to get people to quit en masse. That's ruining the experience of others.

Furthermore, I have a huge problem with the staff member that reviewed this game and rendered the decision. For starters, he does not know to spell very well, and I doubt he speaks English as a first language or about a 7th grade level. I feel it is unfair to have human beings of inferior competence reviewing games where they can render consequences: if he doesn't use the right form of "break" and does not have an understanding of homophones, than I don't think this person should be reviewing games.

Insulting others is not an argument that has any relevance to whether or not you broke the game rules by inciting a leave train here. Moreover, it's also against site rules and an infractable offense at the discretion of staff. Lastly, it's terrible from a persuasive point of view -- being a jerk isn't going to make us more inclined to help you and detracts from your argument.

Furthermore, I believe I have the right to face my accuser and share my side of the story before a consequence should be rendered (which I have just done above). I do not think I should have been added to any watch list just because a poor host selected a save that 1/3 of the room rejected. I respectfully demand my consequence me rescinded and that the moderator that reviewed my case go back and graduate from junior high school.

This isn't a court of law -- you don't have a right to confront your accuser before a decision is rendered. That's simply not how the reports / appeals process works here. You have every right to reject a save via -repick or by leaving the game. Threatening the host and inciting a leave train is not permitted however. For these reasons, your appeal is denied.

Thanks,

Nero

[KingNero]

I wasn't trying to insult anyone; I am just saying that I am concerned that the limited cognitive abilities that this particular staff member possess' may prevent him or her from rendering fair judgments in cases of alleged leave-training (which, again, I deny and feel there is NO evidence that proves anything like that took place). Again, I would love for someone to explain to me why the staff members who are reviewing cases do not know how to spell. Can someone please explain that to me?

[DarknessB]

I wasn't trying to insult anyone; I am just saying that I am concerned that the limited cognitive abilities that this particular staff member possess' may prevent him or her from rendering fair judgments in cases of alleged leave-training (which, again, I deny and feel there is NO evidence that proves anything like that took place). Again, I would love for someone to explain to me why the staff members who are reviewing cases do not know how to spell. Can someone please explain that to me?

I'm not dignifying your ad hominem point with a response beyond saying that spelling has little, if anything, to do with identifying a very basic and obvious leave train offense. Here's the rule itself:

Crime: Leave Trains
Leave training is defined as causing a mass leaving of the game for no apparent reason.The use of terms such as "choo choo" to incite mass leaving is prohibited.
Example: Saying "SotD detected, choo choo!!!!" then leaving.
Type: Situational


In the replay in question, you named yourself "GONNA CHOO". On Day 1, you said "Gonna Choo, Chugga Chugga" and left the game within seconds of the game beginning. That's pretty much the textbook example of a leave train. If you have no other arguments to make other than "it wasn't me!" despite the replay clearly showing otherwise, I think we're done here.

[Villageliu]

Hello mafia moderators. I am new here and this recent ban took me by surprise. My friend Nero told me to get on and see what you guys were saying. I went through several posts about us and after a long laugh about how seriously people take these games, I decided to write a response. First off.... Nero is a college friend who lives in my dorm and sometimes plays at the same time as me from his room down the hallway. We are distinct people and though we both know each other, we play legitimately and do not communicate outside in game communications. We don't skype and believe me when I say that I love making sure he hangs when I figure out who he is. He does the same to me. This is no worse than regulars you prefer to play the game with.

As for the allegations of leave train:

I admit that I started a train but you should be aware of the circumstances. I am appealing this ban because I am the victim of people who are abusing your ban/report feature. Multiple times I was having to contend with harassment saves that evening. There is no doubt these were the effort of people who were skyping together to harass people. Multiple times I had to restart because I was the victim of 4+ cultists saves, 4+ auditors or other stuff which is not what I felt like dealing with. I have limited time to play mafia and I don't have time to deal with pre-pubescents who think it is funny to create troll games. After a few rounds of trying to start a game without these punks I decided to choo because I was tired of them. Being a group they can protect themselves from repicks and even repick you if you are the host.

I would like to point out that I have been playing for well over a year without incident and then all of a sudden I get in trouble multiple times for "leave training" or role quitting done in one day. What I find most laughable is that the real trolls are using these ban/leave lists to harass legitimate players. If you have to punish me fine. I could totally understand being put on a watch list. However, consider that you are favoring a guy named "Trump Reich" over one of your regulars. Please consider that you might be being used to fulfill some jackoff's perverse pleasures.

[DarknessB]

Hello mafia moderators. I am new here and this recent ban took me by surprise. My friend Nero told me to get on and see what you guys were saying. I went through several posts about us and after a long laugh about how seriously people take these game, I decided to write a response. First off.... Nero is a college friend who lives in my dorm and sometimes plays at the same time as me from his room down the hallway. We are distinct people and though we both know each other we play legitimately and do not communicate outside in game communications. We don't skype and believe me when I say that I love making sure he hangs when I figure out who he is. He does the same to me. This is no worse than regulars you prefer to play the game with.

As for the allegations of leave train:

I admit that I started a train but you should be aware of the circumstances. I am appealing this ban because I am the victim of people who are abusing your ban/report feature. Multiple times I was having to contend with harassment saves that evening. There is good reason to believe that these were the effort of people who were skyping together to trolls. Multiple times I was the victim of 4+ cultists saves, 4+ auditors or other stuff which is not what I felt like dealing with. I have limited time to play mafia and I don't have time to deal with pre-pubescents who think it is funny to create troll games. After a few rounds of these punks I decided to choo because I was tired of them. Being a group they can protect themselves from repicks and even repick you if you are the host. I have been playing for well over a year and then all of a sudden I get in trouble multiple times for "leave training" or role quitting. What I find most laughable is that the real trolls are using these ban/leave lists to harass legitimate players. If you have to punish me fine. However, consider that you are favoring a guy named "Trump Reich" over one of your regulars.

Villageliu, we appreciate your writing up this response. For clarification, you were only found guilty of inciting a Leave Train in the Keeper's report -- despite the allegations of out of game communication, you were not found guilty of that offense, so we can move onto your second paragraph.

Unfortunately, two wrongs don't make a right and we cannot police "troll saves" given the subjectivity involved (i.e. one player's troll save is another's great game). If you have a problem with how certain players are conducting themselves, please file reports with replays showing that they are violating the Mafia rules -- i.e. make sure to point out which rules are being broken. As you know the game has a -repick function so that if a critical mass of players dislike a save, they can type -repick and have the setup given to another player. Otherwise, you have the right to leave the game before it starts, but you should not be encouraging other players to do so, because it's possible they want to play the save in question that you find to be "harassing". If there is a group of players banding together to insist on playing non-standard saves, that unfortunately is their right, but you have the same right to leave the game and enter another one without them. It takes quite a lot of players to force a -repick so if they have that much sway in the lobby, it seems like it's a very large group indeed.

Lastly, we understand that Trumpreich pushes the envelope when he plays, but we review all saves with an open mind, regardless of the reporter. If he commits offenses, even in his own reports, he will get written up and punished for them, just like any player would. Also, please note that this particular report was filed by a staff member and not Trumpreich, though we understand Trumpreich has reported you before as well.

We encourage you to take the higher road on these issues and not commit offenses yourself because you are frustrated with how other players are approaching the game. They have as much right to set up a game as you do. If they are banded together in the same game, then it should be easy to leave and start another game, leaving them to their own game as well.

[Helz]

Villageliu, KingNero
Are you guys the same person? Legit question because your running the exact same IP's, using the exact same lines of reason and the way you talk is identical. Where do you go to school?

[Villageliu]

Villageliu, KingNero
Are you guys the same person? Legit question because your running the exact same IP's, using the exact same lines of reason and the way you talk is identical. Where do you go to school?

How do you figure that? I haven't dropped any F-bombs or insults. We both go to Iowa State in Ames.

[Helz]

How do you figure that? I haven't dropped any F-bombs or insults. We both go to Iowa State in Ames.

Well the new post from Gotumpgo also shares your IP. I'm really not sure why your are spamming a shit load of posts and trying to pretend they are coming from different users but it doesn't matter. I personally think that you are either running multiple accounts or just being really stupid here pretending to be multiple people. Be glad that I am not going to step in and push any judgement on you but I am going to argue against your appeal. There is no reason to pretend to be multiple accounts when you are obviously 1 person.

[Villageliu]

Well the new post from Gotumpgo also shares your IP. I'm really not sure why your are spamming a shit load of posts and trying to pretend they are coming from different users but it doesn't matter. I personally think that you are either running multiple accounts or just being really stupid here pretending to be multiple people. Be glad that I am not going to step in and push any judgement on you but I am going to argue against your appeal. There is no reason to pretend to be multiple accounts when you are obviously 1 person.

Why would I pretend to be somebody and report myself? That makes no sense. If you are talking about Nero then of course he has a similar/same IP. We are connecting from the same general place on the university. There is a guy who investigated us in the past at length and has made plenty of arguments to the effect that we are separate people or I can type at 150wpm.

[gotrumpgo]

Well the new post from Gotumpgo also shares your IP. I'm really not sure why your are spamming a shit load of posts and trying to pretend they are coming from different users but it doesn't matter. I personally think that you are either running multiple accounts or just being really stupid here pretending to be multiple people. Be glad that I am not going to step in and push any judgement on you but I am going to argue against your appeal. There is no reason to pretend to be multiple accounts when you are obviously 1 person.


Im from Canada. How can my IP be the same. Maybe the website is bugged. Why would I report myself tho.

[Helz]

Why would I pretend to be somebody and report myself? That makes no sense. If you are talking about Nero then of course he has a similar/same IP. We are connecting from the same general place on the university. There is a guy who investigated us in the past at length and has made plenty of arguments to the effect that we are separate people or I can type at 150wpm.

Im from Canada. How can my IP be the same. Maybe the website is bugged. Why would I report myself tho.
Well I asked another staff what your IP was and they gave me the same IP as Villageriu. Like an hour later someone told me that what I was told was incorrect and that you guys do not have the same IP. So I am 100% wrong there. I was kinda functioning off 3rd hand knowledge.

Regardless the issue here is pretty simple and I will draw out a logic tree sense that shit always works for everyone.

1- Our 'rules' are established based upon the community pushing for things to become a rule.
I 'could' draw out references but its pretty much just a fact that I hope we all can accept. Nothing has ever become a rule without a ton of people bitching about it until we punish people for doing said behaviors.

2- Inciting a leave train is very specifically against the rules. Its qualifying factors are people attempting to make others leave a game and the use of such terms as "Choo Choo."

3- Given that you named yourself "Chugga chugga choooooo" it very specifically fits within these parameters that you violated the 'leave train' rules.

My line of argument was based upon the fact that I believe you and your 'friend' were one and the same person. I am confident that I am correct here given that you share the same IP address and for whatever reason you seem to have the exact same line of reasoning it does not have any bearing on the fact that you deserve no special treatment while getting caught for inciting a leave train.

To be more clear I would argue that you should feel lucky I am not digging into your actions like I should be, that the fact you are blatantly obviously guilty of a leave train should be a simple matter of acceptance to you.

[Villageliu]

Appeal to lift a ban....

About 3 weeks ago I was put on a 2 week ban list for "game-throwing." I tried appealing but that didn't work out so I just served my time. Now I went on today to play since my two weeks was over a few days ago. As soon as I got on I was kicked. I went here and searched and learned it was a new ban for 12 days called "kick vote" or something. What is going on here? Its rather frustrating since this all began when I left a game because of a troll named "Trump Reich" and now I am on perpetual ban?

My number is 1-S2-636838

[Arrow]

Our system is set up to slowly knock down punishments as one serves time, first going from banlist to watchlist, and then back to good standing. I've set you down to Watchlist so you should be able to play again, since Kickvote list is rarely if ever used anymore and I'm not quite sure how you got on it. I'll be updating the map with the new copy shortly; hope this helps!

[DarknessB]

I merged Villageliu's duplicate appeal requests into this thread given this was the report where he was banned.

[gotrumpgo]

Appeal to lift a ban....

About 3 weeks ago I was put on a 2 week ban list for "game-throwing." I tried appealing but that didn't work out so I just served my time. Now I went on today to play since my two weeks was over a few days ago. As soon as I got on I was kicked. I went here and searched and learned it was a new ban for 12 days called "kick vote" or something. What is going on here? Its rather frustrating since this all began when I left a game because of a troll named "Trump Reich" and now I am on perpetual ban?

My number is 1-S2-636838

TRUMPREICH not Trump Reich. ;)

[DarknessB]

TRUMPREICH not Trump Reich. ;)

TRUMPREICH, typically we prohibit posting in reports threads unless you're the reporting player, reported player, or staff. However, given Villageliu specifically mentioned your name in his appeal request, there's a little more latitude in this specific case. Please be aware of that general rule in the future though. Thanks!

[gotrumpgo]

TRUMPREICH, typically we prohibit posting in reports threads unless you're the reporting player, reported player, or staff. However, given Villageliu specifically mentioned your name in his appeal request, there's a little more latitude in this specific case. Please be aware of that general rule in the future though. Thanks!

Thank you in-game staff. You guys are the best.



EDIT: Villageilu, just behave my child.

[Villageliu]

Yes, much appreciated.

[Villageliu]

How am I back on a ban list? I haven't done any leave training or broken any rules since having my last ban lifted. I can't find any complaints about me. What is going on? Is it a glitch?

[Arrow]

I'll fix this. You should be unbanned within 10 minutes.

[Villageliu]

Thank you Arrow. It is much appreciated.

[DarknessB]

Thread closed due to abuse.