S-FM 198 : Stay Classy

[RLVG]

S-FM
Stay Classy

https://vinumvine.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/1986-men-drinking-wine.jpg

---> Setup (Click Me) <--- (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/36161-S-FM-Stay-Classy?p=587153&viewfull=1#post587153)



Godfather

Random Mafia
Random PR

Random PR

Citizen

Citizen

Citizen



Shortcut :


Day 1 & Start Post (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/36787-S-FM-198-Stay-Classy?p=602285&viewfull=1#post602285)
Day 2 (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/36787-S-FM-198-Stay-Classy?p=603713&viewfull=1#post603713)
Epilogue (That was quick!) (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/36787-S-FM-198-Stay-Classy?p=604019&viewfull=1#post604019)


Players :


Kovath
powerofdeath
BananaCucho
G4slight
Calix
Whad
GoatseOntheCupboard


4

01:22:00:00

[RLVG]

The game has started. Should I add an additional 24 hours Day 1 if players are completely unprepared for this? 8)

[Calix]

The game has started. Should I add an additional 24 hours Day 1 if players are completely unprepared for this? 8)

Yes. Please add that to your amazing countdown timer.

[GoatseOntheCupboard]

Yes. Please add that to your amazing countdown timer.

don't worry Calix I'm here and I'm ready to WIFOM

Calix

[RLVG]

Yes. Please add that to your amazing countdown timer.

For the love of god and all that is holy, why is the system so nazi on making it CAPSLOCK?
I'll fix it lol.



Edit : The command wasn't wrong actually, it was the color that messed it up somehow. :huh:

[Calix]

don't worry Calix I'm here and I'm ready to WIFOM

Calix

Jolly good. Any fascinating insights into WIFOM that you think would be beneficial to town?

The setup is basic as fuck, so I can't talk much on that matter. Seems to be similar to POD's last game though.

BananaCucho

[GoatseOntheCupboard]

boring setup, prepare for the mass citizen claims day 3 zzzzz
Jolly good. Any fascinating insights into WIFOM that you think would be beneficial to town?

The setup is basic as fuck, so I can't talk much on that matter. Seems to be similar to POD's last game though.

BananaCucho

[Calix]

boring setup, prepare for the mass citizen claims day 3 zzzzz

Why do you think everyone would stick to a Citizen claim in this game?

[BananaCucho]

Why do you think everyone would stick to a Citizen claim in this game?

I am Spartacus.

GoatseOnTheCupboard

Wow your name sucks to vote

[GoatseOntheCupboard]

Why do you think everyone would stick to a Citizen claim in this game?

Citizen - the go-to claim used by lurkers and scum since Mafia was first invented in 1901. Also only 2 TPR roles tbqh fam

[GoatseOntheCupboard]

You don't like typing cuss words eh banana?


I am Spartacus.

GoatseOnTheCupboard

Wow your name sucks to vote

[BananaCucho]

You don't like typing cuss words eh banana?

I love them

[Calix]

Citizen - the go-to claim used by lurkers and scum since Mafia was first invented in 1901. Also only 2 TPR roles tbqh fam

2/7 is quite a lot though. Knowing RLVG, he randomised it and there are two Escorts or some shit like that, although I definitely wouldn't be saying that's a likely setup.

[G4slight]

Hi everyone. :D

I normally reserve my first vote for #11 as a send off for a good game, but there is no #11, so I'm gunna vote for the first poster

Calix

[G4slight]

boring setup, prepare for the mass citizen claims day 3 zzzzz

I'm guessing citizen equates to vanilla which is to say unrolled?

[BananaCucho]

Hi everyone. :D

I normally reserve my first vote for #11 as a send off for a good game, but there is no #11, so I'm gunna vote for the first poster

Calix

Why #11? And why first poster instead of #7?

[GoatseOntheCupboard]

Why #11? And why first poster instead of #7?

Lurking is tolerated on day 1, so by making the first few posts me and Cowlix are claiming that we're happy to type and lead town and take an active role in discussion instead of lurking. But obviously WIFOM says that there is a 50% chance that this is a mafia tell, I think that is what G4slight meant to say

[BananaCucho]

Lurking is tolerated on day 1, so by making the first few posts me and Cowlix are claiming that we're happy to type and lead town and take an active role in discussion instead of lurking. But obviously WIFOM says that there is a 50% chance that this is a mafia tell, I think that is what G4slight meant to say

Why did you need to explain it for him?

[Calix]

Lurking is tolerated on day 1, so by making the first few posts me and Cowlix are claiming that we're happy to type and lead town and take an active role in discussion instead of lurking. But obviously WIFOM says that there is a 50% chance that this is a mafia tell, I think that is what G4slight meant to say

What led you to the conclusion that lurking is 'tolerated' on Day 1? The Illuminati game had us lynch a lurker on the first day and Veri was not a prolific poster either, so I am struggling to see how you concluded this.

Cowlix? :laugh:

That seems like a stretch to take from Gaslight's post.

[GoatseOntheCupboard]

What led you to the conclusion that lurking is 'tolerated' on Day 1? The Illuminati game had us lynch a lurker on the first day and Veri was not a prolific poster either, so I am struggling to see how you concluded this.

Cowlix? :laugh:

That seems like a stretch to take from Gaslight's post.

That post is not serious at all lmao, he obviously didn't mean anything even relating to WIFOM or lurking since he already implied he was randomizing who he voted for :^)

[Calix]

That post is not serious at all lmao, he obviously didn't mean anything even relating to WIFOM or lurking since he already implied he was randomizing who he voted for :^)

So why make it or talk about it then, if it is so obvious?

Are you going to answer my question?

[BananaCucho]

That post is not serious at all lmao, he obviously didn't mean anything even relating to WIFOM or lurking since he already implied he was randomizing who he voted for :^)

Why are you so convinced you know what he did or didn't mean?

[G4slight]

Why #11? And why first poster instead of #7?

11 is the most duplicitous number in a mafia game, so it's obvious that mafia would be the only people to own that number.

Why would I go for 7?

[G4slight]

Lurking is tolerated on day 1, so by making the first few posts me and Cowlix are claiming that we're happy to type and lead town and take an active role in discussion instead of lurking. But obviously WIFOM says that there is a 50% chance that this is a mafia tell, I think that is what G4slight meant to say

I'm not even sure exactly where you were going with this after reading it twice.


Why are you so convinced you know what he did or didn't mean?

Why does my vote on Calix make you so jumpy?

[BananaCucho]

11 is the most duplicitous number in a mafia game, so it's obvious that mafia would be the only people to own that number.

Why would I go for 7?

Wait you actually have a reason for this? How is 11 deceitful?

[BananaCucho]

I'm not even sure exactly where you were going with this after reading it twice.



Why does my vote on Calix make you so jumpy?

Your definition of jumpy is odd. Point out how I'm jumpy.

[GoatseOntheCupboard]

Why are you so convinced you know what he did or didn't mean?

This shows unfamiliarity with FM games, so obviously an unfamiliarity with hyper-advanced strategies like WIFOM used only by top-tier players such as me, Duck and Matteo


I'm guessing citizen equates to vanilla which is to say unrolled?

[GoatseOntheCupboard]

What led you to the conclusion that lurking is 'tolerated' on Day 1? The Illuminati game had us lynch a lurker on the first day and Veri was not a prolific poster either, so I am struggling to see how you concluded this.

Cowlix? :laugh:

That seems like a stretch to take from Gaslight's post.

K fine, lurking wasn't tolerated in the illuminati game. But everyone in that game was active as hell. In the beginner mafia game and FM-game of thrones, lurking was the #1 meta and went unpunished.

[Calix]

K fine, lurking wasn't tolerated in the illuminati game. But everyone in that game was active as hell. In the beginner mafia game and FM-game of thrones, lurking was the #1 meta and went unpunished.

Bit of a gap between a S-FM with 7 players and a large game with 26, don't you think?

This is going off-topic, however, and I am struggling to stay awake as it is without being lulled to sleep by lurker talk. Initial impressions on Banana/ Gaslight's interactions?

[GoatseOntheCupboard]

Bit of a gap between a S-FM with 7 players and a large game with 26, don't you think?

This is going off-topic, however, and I am struggling to stay awake as it is without being lulled to sleep by lurker talk. Initial impressions on Banana/ Gaslight's interactions?


boring and dry day 1 mafia chat quizzing, where every1 is too careful and you can't get anything out of anything because everyone is playing safe. This is why U gotta go far off topic, get them lulled into a false sense of security, start talking about WIFOM and anubis and shit and pick up the scumtells and slips fam

[G4slight]

Wait you actually have a reason for this? How is 11 deceitful?

Said its duplicitous obv tongue and cheek, it's just my traditional starting place/joke vote to start off the game.

[Kovath]

boring setup, prepare for the mass citizen claims day 3 zzzzz

You seem to be implying that you won't be one of them :P

Is bringing up WIFOM from nowhere you typically do in your meta?

[G4slight]

Your definition of jumpy is odd. Point out how I'm jumpy.

Maybe jumpy wasn't the correct phrase to use. Your initial post of "Why do you have to explain it for him." when you were talking to Goats, and me being the him, seemed odd almost as odd as Goat's comment. But coupling it with your initial averse reaction to me voting for calix, and trying to get me to swap to 7 just read as a pseudo defense of Calix to me.

[Kovath]

Said its duplicitous obv tongue and cheek, it's just my traditional starting place/joke vote to start off the game.

Joking to subconciously make us more comfortable with you, perhaps; and disassociating yourself with the number 11 in this game which you have branded as duplicitous, does that mean we should expect no duplicity from you?

I'm scared of how you're trying to manipulate my subconscious.

:toadette:

G4slight

[G4slight]

Joking to subconciously make us more comfortable with you, perhaps; and disassociating yourself with the number 11 in this game which you have branded as duplicitous, does that mean we should expect no duplicity from you?

I'm scared of how you're trying to manipulate my subconscious.

:toadette:

G4slight

Damn, caught red handed, but obviously I only have 10 fingers, so I pass the 11 test :P

[Kovath]

Damn, caught red handed, but obviously I only have 10 fingers, so I pass the 11 test :P

Might your 11th finger be a gun resting snugly on your belt?

[BananaCucho]

Maybe jumpy wasn't the correct phrase to use. Your initial post of "Why do you have to explain it for him." when you were talking to Goats, and me being the him, seemed odd almost as odd as Goat's comment. But coupling it with your initial averse reaction to me voting for calix, and trying to get me to swap to 7 just read as a pseudo defense of Calix to me.

Questioning a vote with odd reasoning isn't a defense.

[G4slight]

Might your 11th finger be a gun resting snugly on your belt?

Nah just happy to see you ;)

[G4slight]

Questioning a vote with odd reasoning isn't a defense.

It's not, but I stated the reason, and it was pretty nonsensical, which I'm fairly certain a lot of people picked up on, despite me explaining it overly so.

[BananaCucho]

It's not, but I stated the reason, and it was pretty nonsensical, which I'm fairly certain a lot of people picked up on, despite me explaining it overly so.

If you agree its not a defense why did you try to play an early Banana+Calix scum team angle? And why are you backing off of it now?

[G4slight]

If you agree its not a defense why did you try to play an early Banana+Calix scum team angle? And why are you backing off of it now?

At this point I'm just going to assume you are intentionally not understanding where I am coming from. I never fully played a Banana + Calix scum team angle, just said the defense you had towards her (that I perceived from reading your posts, and still to this point agree with) appeared odd. There could be several reasons for that

1. You are both scum together, and this is one of your first games playing mafia, or one of your first games as scum.

2. the mafia know who isn't scum so buddying up and helping a townie is a quick way to try and earn some town cred from the person they are defending, so in that case you'd be mafia and Calix would not.

Again, I never said that you and Calix were on a team together or that you hardcore defended her and are obv scum, no I said it seemed odd and put you on my lean scum list as of now. :)

[powerofdeath]

Hello :)

[powerofdeath]

This is how this is going to work. I can easily find scums based on 1 on 1 conversation. I would like to have a 1 on 1 conversation with everyone in this game.

Anybody want to go first?

[BananaCucho]

At this point I'm just going to assume you are intentionally not understanding where I am coming from. I never fully played a Banana + Calix scum team angle, just said the defense you had towards her (that I perceived from reading your posts, and still to this point agree with) appeared odd. There could be several reasons for that

1. You are both scum together, and this is one of your first games playing mafia, or one of your first games as scum.

2. the mafia know who isn't scum so buddying up and helping a townie is a quick way to try and earn some town cred from the person they are defending, so in that case you'd be mafia and Calix would not.

Again, I never said that you and Calix were on a team together or that you hardcore defended her and are obv scum, no I said it seemed odd and put you on my lean scum list as of now. :)

But you just agreed it wasn't a defense. So is it a defense or isn't it?

[G4slight]

Questioning a vote with odd reasoning isn't a defense.

I thought this was in reference to me voting for number 11?

Also your defense of Calix, may not be a full throated defense, but it certainly appears as if you are trying to shift attention from her

[G4slight]

This is how this is going to work. I can easily find scums based on 1 on 1 conversation. I would like to have a 1 on 1 conversation with everyone in this game.

Anybody want to go first?

I'll go

[powerofdeath]

I'll go

what do you think of the game so far?

[BananaCucho]

I thought this was in reference to me voting for number 11?

Also your defense of Calix, may not be a full throated defense, but it certainly appears as if you are trying to shift attention from her

It's pretty comical seeing you go from "why 11 and not 7" which are both random numbers to "you're trying to draw attention off of Calix".

[BananaCucho]

lel, Foxtrot in the house folks

[powerofdeath]

lel, Foxtrot in the house folks

Trying to discredit a player from 1 game in the past is a big scumtell.

[G4slight]

what do you think of the game so far?

I'm assuming you are asking for my reads? or general thoughts on the game?

If my reads

Not a lot of activity to comment on, other than my scum lean on Banana, and Goats weird post, but they have already been discussed.

I also think the activity is kinda slow, wish you, whad, and Calix would all post more along with Kovath, would like others opinions on the gameplay that's happened.

[powerofdeath]

I'm assuming you are asking for my reads? or general thoughts on the game?

If my reads

Not a lot of activity to comment on, other than my scum lean on Banana, and Goats weird post, but they have already been discussed.

I also think the activity is kinda slow, wish you, whad, and Calix would all post more along with Kovath, would like others opinions on the gameplay that's happened.

I'm here now aren't I?

[G4slight]

It's pretty comical seeing you go from "why 11 and not 7" which are both random numbers to "you're trying to draw attention off of Calix".

That's actually not at all what I was doing and it still appears to me that you are blatantly missrepping my posts.

[G4slight]

I'm here now aren't I?

Yeah you are, and I look forward to your opinions.

[G4slight]

lel, Foxtrot in the house folks

Have 0 idea who that is but with the lel, and PoD's post I can assume it's a dig. See the logical process in action.

Calix

BananaCucho

[BananaCucho]

Trying to discredit a player from 1 game in the past is a big scumtell.

Sure thing sheriff.


Have 0 idea who that is but with the lel, and PoD's post I can assume it's a dig. See the logical process in action.

Calix

BananaCucho

You can't unvote and vote in the same post. It didn't count

[G4slight]

unvote

[G4slight]

BananaCucho

sorry, wasn't aware of that rule

[Kovath]

BananaCucho

sorry, wasn't aware of that rule

For future notice, voting for someone else already removes your original vote. You do not need to unvote first, otherwise the thread would be clogged with them.

[BananaCucho]

BananaCucho

sorry, wasn't aware of that rule

Not a rule, literally the code ignores all votes/unvotes except the first one

[Whad]

Hello everybody! I'm here and going to take a second to catch up on what has happened so far.

For now, here is a blatant attempt to buddy Kovath:
G4slight

[Kovath]

Hello everybody! I'm here and going to take a second to catch up on what has happened so far.

For now, here is a blatant attempt to buddy Kovath:
G4slight

I'm curious as to why I am your buddy target of choice :P

[Whad]

I thought this was in reference to me voting for number 11?

Also your defense of Calix, may not be a full throated defense, but it certainly appears as if you are trying to shift attention from her

If Banana is indeed "trying to shift attention from Calix", Banana has only served to bring more attention to her by pursuing this line of questioning with you.

[Whad]

I'm curious as to why I am your buddy target of choice :P

Well you are currently online, voting who you are voting doesn't put us prematurely at L-1, and I thought it might be cool to see how you would respond.

So how do you respond?

[Kovath]

Well you are currently online, voting who you are voting doesn't put us prematurely at L-1, and I thought it might be cool to see how you would respond.

So how do you respond?

I've got my eye on you, Manager Whad!

[Whad]

Thoughts so far:

Powerofdeath - His move this game to have one on one conversations with people is a bit awkward. I think this could be a play as scum to avoid having to talk with everyone since he is focusing on one player at a time. So far he is only talking with G4slight except for a jab back at Banana. I'm hoping that I am misunderstanding what he intends to do here and that he won't ignore everyone he is not 1 on 1 conversing with. Time will tell.

I also dislike how PoD says that Bananacucho is scummy for bringing up drama from past game to discredit him but then doesn't vote Banana in light of this "scumtell". Scum leaning at the moment.

Powerofdeath, how is a 1 on 1 conversation better for you to find scum? Has this method ever been successful before? (Links to games in which it has would be awesome!). Can you also place a vote on someone?

BananaCucho - I like Banana so far for pointing out minor logical inconsistencies in G4slight's posts. I am not sure their interaction from Banana's side is alignment indicative. Null for now.

G4slight - Logical inconsistencies that Banana has pointed out seem a bit scummy like G4slight is scrambling to justify every post (but then forgetting the previous justifications in the next). This seems like a tell of inexperience to handling pointed questions or a scumtell via defensive overjustifications.

Their vote on Banana for a "dig" at PoD seemed a bit opportunistic of a justification to vote the person (Banana) who is questioning them (G4slight). I am leaning scum on this player.

Goat - His claim that Day 3 would be mass citizen claim is odd to me. If scum both claim citizen then we would know which PRs to trust. Although this game is not guaranteed to even get to Day 3 since town only has one mislynch and worst case scenario things end D2. I'll read this as a facetious comment for now though.

His post #17 is also strange since basically he is saying there is a 50% chance he is mafia??!:

Lurking is tolerated on day 1, so by making the first few posts me and Cowlix are claiming that we're happy to type and lead town and take an active role in discussion instead of lurking. But obviously WIFOM says that there is a 50% chance that this is a mafia tell, I think that is what G4slight meant to say

I also find #30 to be anti-town. Going off topic fills the daychat with garbage and should be frowned upon. Also, only scum needs to try to be "too careful" on D1. It seems like Goat is justifying potential cautious scumplay by saying everyone is doing it:

boring and dry day 1 mafia chat quizzing, where every1 is too careful and you can't get anything out of anything because everyone is playing safe. This is why U gotta go far off topic, get them lulled into a false sense of security, start talking about WIFOM and anubis and shit and pick up the scumtells and slips fam

GoatseOntheCupboard, can you please describe your method of scumhunting? Is this method useful past D1? Why do you think townies would have to "play it safe" on D1?


Everyone else is null and needs to post more before I can get a good read: Kovath, Calix now is your cue to chime in.

[GoatseOntheCupboard]

Whad I was throwing random sentences with questionable reasoning out there and really just wanted to see how g4slight would react to it. I see banana throwing loaded questions at g4slight too and I think it's smart and good to see how people react not only to standard questioning but "Lol why do you think calix and banana are on a team" and other logical fallacies. G4slight seems to be reacting quite horribly to pressure, he seems inexperienced though so not necessarily a scumtell. I hate how he is being aggressive towards his accuser Banana but not towards any other player, unlike Calix and Kovath who have already started the grilling.

[GoatseOntheCupboard]

I have never seen this strategy before PoD, it seems cool as shit so I would probably be averse to lynching you if that was your plan all along? PoD has always tried to completely lead the town day 1 so this is a weird departure from his usual strategy, he obviously knows we know this so literally who knows he's null as fuck to me. Anyways, I like how banana and calix are singling people out to grill and PoD has pretty much claimed he wants to do this.

Kovath I'm a noob with 0% winrate and I can see that g4slight is obviously the most scummy acting and reacting the worst to pressure, why do you need to vote him and take jabs at him? Do you think this makes you seem more town-acting than if you focused on somebody else?

[Whad]

Whad I was throwing random sentences with questionable reasoning out there and really just wanted to see how g4slight would react to it. I see banana throwing loaded questions at g4slight too and I think it's smart and good to see how people react not only to standard questioning but "Lol why do you think calix and banana are on a team" and other logical fallacies. G4slight seems to be reacting quite horribly to pressure, he seems inexperienced though so not necessarily a scumtell. I hate how he is being aggressive towards his accuser Banana but not towards any other player, unlike Calix and Kovath who have already started the grilling.

I wouldn't call anything Kovath has done so far "grilling".

[Whad]

Whad I was throwing random sentences with questionable reasoning out there and really just wanted to see how g4slight would react to it. I see banana throwing loaded questions at g4slight too and I think it's smart and good to see how people react not only to standard questioning but "Lol why do you think calix and banana are on a team" and other logical fallacies. G4slight seems to be reacting quite horribly to pressure, he seems inexperienced though so not necessarily a scumtell. I hate how he is being aggressive towards his accuser Banana but not towards any other player, unlike Calix and Kovath who have already started the grilling.

I actually really dislike this post since you fence sit or say you like everyone you've mentioned. Scum often have a hard time scumhunting since they know who the actual scum are in the game.

Also, you said that your motives early on were to say questionable things and see how G4slight responded. Well here is how he responded. What do you glean from G4slight's response? What did you hope to get from his responses?


I'm not even sure exactly where you were going with this after reading it twice.

This next quote really REALLY bothers me. You like PoD's playstyle so you are adverse to lynching him?!? Seems like someone (Goat) is trying really hard to buddy PoD. Also, why do you keep answering questions for G4slight and defending him (see your question to Kovath)? If G4slight is "obviously the most scummy and reacting the worst to pressure" then why not vote him?

I have never seen this strategy before PoD, it seems cool as shit so I would probably be averse to lynching you if that was your plan all along? PoD has always tried to completely lead the town day 1 so this is a weird departure from his usual strategy, he obviously knows we know this so literally who knows he's null as fuck to me. Anyways, I like how banana and calix are singling people out to grill and PoD has pretty much claimed he wants to do this.

Kovath I'm a noob with 0% winrate and I can see that g4slight is obviously the most scummy acting and reacting the worst to pressure, why do you need to vote him and take jabs at him? Do you think this makes you seem more town-acting than if you focused on somebody else?

[G4slight]

Whad , you also completely missed a lot of things but whatevs. I didn't vote Banana for a dig at PoD I voted Banana since he was misrepping what I was saying and it seemed that he was trying to alleviate heat from Calix. The dig comment was towards me, I actually quoted the post where he said it and it was directed at me not PoD. I've also kept up with the same logic and if you can point out any specific differences id love to clarify them. As of now your also starting to lean scum for me.

[Whad]

Whad , you also completely missed a lot of things but whatevs. I didn't vote Banana for a dig at PoD I voted Banana since he was misrepping what I was saying and it seemed that he was trying to alleviate heat from Calix. The dig comment was towards me, I actually quoted the post where he said it and it was directed at me not PoD. I've also kept up with the same logic and if you can point out any specific differences id love to clarify them. As of now your also starting to lean scum for me.

G4slight:
What do you think I have missed? Can you point out some specific instances of Banana misrepping what you were saying?

I argue that Banana can't be trying to alleviate heat from Calix because Banana's questions to you has only served to put your interactions in the spotlight. Go back and read your interactions. Also, Banana isn't legitimately trying to alleviate heat from Calix because:

1. There is literally no heat on Calix (maybe one or two early game votes but this is not heat)
2. Banana's questions to you read way more like early game banter (yet it is making you WAY too defensive).

Also, the dig comment was actually directed at PoD not you. I guess without context I can see how you might have read it that way.

lel, Foxtrot in the house folks

The context is that the large FM game here just finished and PoD was a town-aligned Sheriff named Foxtrot who had some questionable play including faking a guilty on a player that ended up flipping town. Banana was a town Lookout in game and called out Foxtrot (PoD) for lying. Lynching PoD's guilty result and then PoD ate up two of the town's lynches and was one large factor contributing to the town's loss. Post-game, Banana has been very vocally upset about Foxtrot (PoD)'s in-game actions and that is why Banana posted the above quote when PoD appeared in this game thread. It was a dig directed at PoD, not you.

The main logical inconsistency you have had is here:
For context, Banana had just said "Questioning a vote with odd reasoning isn't a defense." So your response "It's not" means that you agree that Banana wasn't defending Calix.

It's not, but I stated the reason, and it was pretty nonsensical, which I'm fairly certain a lot of people picked up on, despite me explaining it overly so.

Then in the next post you claim it was a defense:

At this point I'm just going to assume you are intentionally not understanding where I am coming from. I never fully played a Banana + Calix scum team angle, just said the defense you had towards her (that I perceived from reading your posts, and still to this point agree with) appeared odd. There could be several reasons for that

1. You are both scum together, and this is one of your first games playing mafia, or one of your first games as scum.

2. the mafia know who isn't scum so buddying up and helping a townie is a quick way to try and earn some town cred from the person they are defending, so in that case you'd be mafia and Calix would not.

Again, I never said that you and Calix were on a team together or that you hardcore defended her and are obv scum, no I said it seemed odd and put you on my lean scum list as of now. :)

So in one post you go from claiming it is not a defense, and then the next you completely flip to claiming it is a defense along with some reasons why Banana might defend Calix as scum. It's one thing to change your mind after a lot of in-game action has occurred, but this logical inconsistency seems a bit odd.

You also seem to respond to pressure with scum leans (against me and Banana). I'm not sure that this itself is alignment indicative yet since an inexperienced townie might be flustered by pressure. However, a scum player that can't take the heat's go to move is often attacking the attacker and calling them scum.

In light of all this, I'm pretty happy where my vote is.

[G4slight]

I thought in the quote with "it's not" he was referencing my joke number 11 vote where I voted Calix since there was no number 11. He was either misrepping that fact or I completely whiffed on what he was referencing.

Also I wasn't aware that PoD was foxtrot in another game. This is my second game on this forum and my first game is still ongoing... So I can see where I picked up the wrong meaning.

So yes I still think it was a light defense. Not just the initial why not number 7 point but coupling it with other remarks. I actually have stated this exact same thing earlier and you glossed over it or misunderstood me. Which in the games I've played elsewhere and the amount of them I've played, for me, misrepping is usually #1 scumtel, so yes I'm going to be suspicious of those that I see doing it.

Also, again I never said Calix and Banana are guaranteed scum together game over. No, I said the most likely scenario is that I have a hard scum lean on Banana since his buddying/defense of Calix seemed like a mafia member trying to earn townie points with someone they would know is innocent.

[Whad]

I thought in the quote with "it's not" he was referencing my joke number 11 vote where I voted Calix since there was no number 11. He was either misrepping that fact or I completely whiffed on what he was referencing.

....

So yes I still think it was a light defense. Not just the initial why not number 7 point but coupling it with other remarks. I actually have stated this exact same thing earlier and you glossed over it or misunderstood me. Which in the games I've played elsewhere and the amount of them I've played, for me, misrepping is usually #1 scumtel, so yes I'm going to be suspicious of those that I see doing it.

Banana had quoted your post here:

Maybe jumpy wasn't the correct phrase to use. Your initial post of "Why do you have to explain it for him." when you were talking to Goats, and me being the him, seemed odd almost as odd as Goat's comment. But coupling it with your initial averse reaction to me voting for calix, and trying to get me to swap to 7 just read as a pseudo defense of Calix to me.


Questioning a vote with odd reasoning isn't a defense.


It's not, but I stated the reason, and it was pretty nonsensical, which I'm fairly certain a lot of people picked up on, despite me explaining it overly so.

This is literally how the conversation unfolded with the two of you quoting each others posts in this order. Can you at least see how people (Banana and I) might think that this is indeed a contradiction. Naively, you must have misread the interaction. But if I stop giving you the benefit of the doubt, it reads really scummy that you are misrepping me by saying I'm misrepping you. Also given that I'm not misrepping you, it reads scummy that you push a scum lean on me for that reason.



Also I wasn't aware that PoD was foxtrot in another game. This is my second game on this forum and my first game is still ongoing... So I can see where I picked up the wrong meaning.
Glad I could help clarify this for you.


Also, again I never said Calix and Banana are guaranteed scum together game over. No, I said the most likely scenario is that I have a hard scum lean on Banana since his buddying/defense of Calix seemed like a mafia member trying to earn townie points with someone they would know is innocent.
My argument is that Calix didn't need a defense since there was extremely minimal pressure on her. I don't think Banana gets town or scum points for defending (even calling it defending is a stretch) Calix against a couple of RVS votes. Defense of other players becomes a lot more indicative when serious lynch trains get going.

[BananaCucho]

Whad , you also completely missed a lot of things but whatevs. I didn't vote Banana for a dig at PoD I voted Banana since he was misrepping what I was saying and it seemed that he was trying to alleviate heat from Calix. The dig comment was towards me, I actually quoted the post where he said it and it was directed at me not PoD. I've also kept up with the same logic and if you can point out any specific differences id love to clarify them. As of now your also starting to lean scum for me.

lol so anyone who questions you is a scum lean.

The dig was 100% at the game thrower, not at you.

[Kovath]

I have never seen this strategy before PoD, it seems cool as shit so I would probably be averse to lynching you if that was your plan all along? PoD has always tried to completely lead the town day 1 so this is a weird departure from his usual strategy, he obviously knows we know this so literally who knows he's null as fuck to me. Anyways, I like how banana and calix are singling people out to grill and PoD has pretty much claimed he wants to do this.

Kovath I'm a noob with 0% winrate and I can see that g4slight is obviously the most scummy acting and reacting the worst to pressure, why do you need to vote him and take jabs at him? Do you think this makes you seem more town-acting than if you focused on somebody else?

I came with my jabs early and before that became more evident. His continued pattern of responses is definitely arousing my suspicion now though. Will comment on Whad's posts shortly.

[BananaCucho]

I like Whads posts a lot. He has a lot of scum reads but reads are fluid and he can pick out who he feels is the most scummy. Its good that he's being analytical of motivation.

[G4slight]

lol so anyone who questions you is a scum lean.

The dig was 100% at the game thrower, not at you.

No, not anyone who questions me, :P I'm not that bad, but when it appears to me that I'm being misrepresented in what I posted, yeah I make that connection.

[BananaCucho]

No, not anyone who questions me, :P I'm not that bad, but when it appears to me that I'm being misrepresented in what I posted, yeah I make that connection.

I didn't misrep you though, I questioned why you were saying what you were saying. Misrepping would be "gaslight is scum for saying the sky is orange" after you clearly said the sky was blue.

[G4slight]

Banana had quoted your post here:






This is literally how the conversation unfolded with the two of you quoting each others posts in this order. Can you at least see how people (Banana and I) might think that this is indeed a contradiction. Naively, you must have misread the interaction. But if I stop giving you the benefit of the doubt, it reads really scummy that you are misrepping me by saying I'm misrepping you. Also given that I'm not misrepping you, it reads scummy that you push a scum lean on me for that reason.



Glad I could help clarify this for you.


My argument is that Calix didn't need a defense since there was extremely minimal pressure on her. I don't think Banana gets town or scum points for defending (even calling it defending is a stretch) Calix against a couple of RVS votes. Defense of other players becomes a lot more indicative when serious lynch trains get going.

Mmmmkay, Let me walk through these.

When Banana said questioning a vote with an odd reasoning isn't a defense, I said it wasn't which by itself was not. But then when you add in what he said in latter posts it seemed like a defense/buddying attempt.

Yeah, I must of misread, while reading posts in-between, but I still stand by it looked like early buddying/defending, but again to my statement, it read as if you were misconstruing the point I was trying to get across, which again could be a misunderstanding, but it felt to me that it wasn't, so I went with it.

I know Calix didn't need a defense, I'm sure she's a capable player, able to post and defend and prosecute on her own merit, that's why it appeared to me that banana may be trying to get some early buddying points at least from Calix.

[G4slight]

I didn't misrep you though, I questioned why you were saying what you were saying. Misrepping would be "gaslight is scum for saying the sky is orange" after you clearly said the sky was blue.

It seemed like to me that you did, when Whad posted the quotes back to back, it was easy to see where I might of made an error, and I'm willing to reread and see if and where I did, but it will probably be in a couple hours.

[Kovath]

Whad is putting in serious analytical work of content that I am finding few gaps in. Reading as town, definitely would not agree to lynch today.

Banana hasn't been doing the same type of things as Whad, but she's been probing and on point with her questions and short replies. Slight town lean.

G4 has been reacting strangely to pressure and appears to be on the backfoot for the moment. Not liking leaps and gaps in some of his logic chains, seems to shift his positions in order to better fit his story in response to questions. Slight scum lean.

Haven't seen enough from Goat, Calix, and PoD. Null overall.

I'm a little curious as to how this 'random vote' thing has been carried out so far. I'll look a bit deeper into how it's kept moving.

[Kovath]

I would also say that: Banana neither attacked the accuser nor explicitly defended the accused, only questioned the vote.

It's wasn't a defense, and I personally would not treat it as a scumtell. An incidental tell to support a stronger case at best.

[G4slight]

I would also say that: Banana neither attacked the accuser nor explicitly defended the accused, only questioned the vote.

It's wasn't a defense, and I personally would not treat it as a scumtell. An incidental tell to support a stronger case at best.

Well it was my initial reaction to two posts that got kinda blew up into this. But yeah it was something that pinged my scumdar and had me leaning scum on him

[G4slight]

So basically Goats started off with a vote on Calix, and then this happened


I am Spartacus.

GoatseOnTheCupboard

Wow your name sucks to vote

So he voted for someone who voted for Calix



Hi everyone. :D

I normally reserve my first vote for #11 as a send off for a good game, but there is no #11, so I'm gunna vote for the first poster

Calix

My number 11 rvs vote, and reason for doing so.


Why #11? And why first poster instead of #7?

Slight appearance of trying for me to get me to shift my vote.

Then this weird af post which started the second phase of things


Lurking is tolerated on day 1, so by making the first few posts me and Cowlix are claiming that we're happy to type and lead town and take an active role in discussion instead of lurking. But obviously WIFOM says that there is a 50% chance that this is a mafia tell, I think that is what G4slight meant to say


Why did you need to explain it for him?


I'm not even sure exactly where you were going with this after reading it twice.



Why does my vote on Calix make you so jumpy?

This is where I think things got messed up tbh


Wait you actually have a reason for this? How is 11 deceitful?

I was jokingly explaining my reason for 11


Your definition of jumpy is odd. Point out how I'm jumpy.

Then banana fires this quote after his above quote


Said its duplicitous obv tongue and cheek, it's just my traditional starting place/joke vote to start off the game.

Me referencing my rvs (I'm assuming rvs=random voting stage, if I am wrong please correct me) vote


Maybe jumpy wasn't the correct phrase to use. Your initial post of "Why do you have to explain it for him." when you were talking to Goats, and me being the him, seemed odd almost as odd as Goat's comment. But coupling it with your initial averse reaction to me voting for calix, and trying to get me to swap to 7 just read as a pseudo defense of Calix to me.

Again the above quote is me pointing out what I perceive to be initial buddying


Questioning a vote with odd reasoning isn't a defense.

See I thought the above quote was a throwback to me explaining why 11 is duplicitous


It's not, but I stated the reason, and it was pretty nonsensical, which I'm fairly certain a lot of people picked up on, despite me explaining it overly so.

Again the nonsensical part is me referencing my RVS vote, and not my thoughts of the whole Banana buddying Calix


If you agree its not a defense why did you try to play an early Banana+Calix scum team angle? And why are you backing off of it now?

The quote above I respond with the below reasoning


At this point I'm just going to assume you are intentionally not understanding where I am coming from. I never fully played a Banana + Calix scum team angle, just said the defense you had towards her (that I perceived from reading your posts, and still to this point agree with) appeared odd. There could be several reasons for that

1. You are both scum together, and this is one of your first games playing mafia, or one of your first games as scum.

2. the mafia know who isn't scum so buddying up and helping a townie is a quick way to try and earn some town cred from the person they are defending, so in that case you'd be mafia and Calix would not.

Again, I never said that you and Calix were on a team together or that you hardcore defended her and are obv scum, no I said it seemed odd and put you on my lean scum list as of now. :)

And the two quotes below happened which shows what I perceived as a missrep and my response to it.


But you just agreed it wasn't a defense. So is it a defense or isn't it?\


I thought this was in reference to me voting for number 11?

Also your defense of Calix, may not be a full throated defense, but it certainly appears as if you are trying to shift attention from her

[powerofdeath]

Thoughts so far:

Powerofdeath - His move this game to have one on one conversations with people is a bit awkward. I think this could be a play as scum to avoid having to talk with everyone since he is focusing on one player at a time. So far he is only talking with G4slight except for a jab back at Banana. I'm hoping that I am misunderstanding what he intends to do here and that he won't ignore everyone he is not 1 on 1 conversing with. Time will tell.

I also dislike how PoD says that Bananacucho is scummy for bringing up drama from past game to discredit him but then doesn't vote Banana in light of this "scumtell". Scum leaning at the moment.

Powerofdeath, how is a 1 on 1 conversation better for you to find scum? Has this method ever been successful before? (Links to games in which it has would be awesome!). Can you also place a vote on someone?

I saw that someone else said they were going to vote Banana, and I didnt really necessarily want to put Banana at L-1. My reasoning for not voting him at least.
Dunno, but I was always able to read people better when they talk to me directly and I talk to them directly. Just like what we are doing right now. I read you better this way. I dont really read people based on them talking to other people directly.


I have never seen this strategy before PoD, it seems cool as shit so I would probably be averse to lynching you if that was your plan all along? PoD has always tried to completely lead the town day 1 so this is a weird departure from his usual strategy, he obviously knows we know this so literally who knows he's null as fuck to me. Anyways, I like how banana and calix are singling people out to grill and PoD has pretty much claimed he wants to do this.

Kovath I'm a noob with 0% winrate and I can see that g4slight is obviously the most scummy acting and reacting the worst to pressure, why do you need to vote him and take jabs at him? Do you think this makes you seem more town-acting than if you focused on somebody else?

I never played games with you before. What make you think I always lead town day 1? I am trying something new and S-FM is a good place to experiment my strategies.


I have never seen this strategy before PoD, it seems cool as shit so I would probably be averse to lynching you if that was your plan all along? PoD has always tried to completely lead the town day 1 so this is a weird departure from his usual strategy, he obviously knows we know this so literally who knows he's null as fuck to me. Anyways, I like how banana and calix are singling people out to grill and PoD has pretty much claimed he wants to do this.

Kovath I'm a noob with 0% winrate and I can see that g4slight is obviously the most scummy acting and reacting the worst to pressure, why do you need to vote him and take jabs at him? Do you think this makes you seem more town-acting than if you focused on somebody else?

I never played games with you before. What make you think I always lead town day 1? I am trying something new and S-FM is a good place to experiment my strategies.


This next quote really REALLY bothers me. You like PoD's playstyle so you are adverse to lynching him?!? Seems like someone (Goat) is trying really hard to buddy PoD. Also, why do you keep answering questions for G4slight and defending him (see your question to Kovath)? If G4slight is "obviously the most scummy and reacting the worst to pressure" then why not vote him?

Anyway, this.

GoatseOntheCupboard

[powerofdeath]

I have a slight scumread on Calix. I believe that if she was town, she would post a lot more often. One game where she was the Godfather, she was lurking very hard, and nobody really tried to lynched her or her replacement even tho I was pushing on Calix that game.

[Whad]

I didn't misrep you though, I questioned why you were saying what you were saying. Misrepping would be "gaslight is scum for saying the sky is orange" after you clearly said the sky was blue.

WOW. I didn't realize that G4slight = gaslight. My life will never be the same again. Thank you Banana.


Yeah, I must of misread, while reading posts in-between, but I still stand by it looked like early buddying/defending, but again to my statement, it read as if you were misconstruing the point I was trying to get across, which again could be a misunderstanding, but it felt to me that it wasn't, so I went with it.

I know Calix didn't need a defense, I'm sure she's a capable player, able to post and defend and prosecute on her own merit, that's why it appeared to me that banana may be trying to get some early buddying points at least from Calix.
There's nothing wrong in misreading as long as you go back to reread :)

I still don't think that Banana would get any buddying points from Calix since that was a pretty weak attempt at buddying if you can even call it one at all.

[Whad]

I'm a little curious as to how this 'random vote' thing has been carried out so far. I'll look a bit deeper into how it's kept moving.

What 'random vote' thing are you talking about?


I would also say that: Banana neither attacked the accuser nor explicitly defended the accused, only questioned the vote.

It's wasn't a defense, and I personally would not treat it as a scumtell. An incidental tell to support a stronger case at best.

Kovath, you seem very guarded this game. I get the sense that you are content to sit on the sidelines and observe instead of jumping into the action. I am beginning to feel like your lack of activity might be the sign of scum.


I have a slight scumread on Calix. I believe that if she was town, she would post a lot more often. One game where she was the Godfather, she was lurking very hard, and nobody really tried to lynched her or her replacement even tho I was pushing on Calix that game.

I would be ok with lynching Calix for a similar reason.

[Whad]

I saw that someone else said they were going to vote Banana, and I didnt really necessarily want to put Banana at L-1. My reasoning for not voting him at least.
Dunno, but I was always able to read people better when they talk to me directly and I talk to them directly. Just like what we are doing right now. I read you better this way. I dont really read people based on them talking to other people directly.



I never played games with you before. What make you think I always lead town day 1? I am trying something new and S-FM is a good place to experiment my strategies.



I never played games with you before. What make you think I always lead town day 1? I am trying something new and S-FM is a good place to experiment my strategies.



Anyway, this.

GoatseOntheCupboard

Ok, seems reasonable. I misunderstood what you meant earlier by having 1 on 1 conversations. Although I personally can gain new insights on conversations that other players have in the game thread, so I would urge you not to rule out other types of interactions.

PoD going after Goat for perceived buddying with PoD seems like a town reaction. I think a scum PoD would be more inclined to let it slide and keep a player who seems to have jumped in his pocket right in there.

[Kovath]

What 'random vote' thing are you talking about?



Kovath, you seem very guarded this game. I get the sense that you are content to sit on the sidelines and observe instead of jumping into the action. I am beginning to feel like your lack of activity might be the sign of scum.



I would be ok with lynching Calix for a similar reason.

I felt like you did a lot of quality analysis in your posts on content, and me chipping in wasn't going to add any new value to those discussions. My reads ended up aligning relatively closely with yours.

To provide my thoughts on PoD:

PoD spent quite a bit of his post defending his playstyle in this game. However, it doesn't seem to have really come to fruition with any hard reads yet. Not enough to scumread but feels a little less genuine- trying out something new but with little observable results other than "I'm trying out something new!"

Basically takes Whad's read as justification for his vote on Goat. Feels a bit sheepy. Again, not a scumread but something to keep in mind. Still no hard content contributed by this slot other than the Calix observation.

Lynches I would find acceptable today: Goat, Calix, G4slight.

[Whad]

I felt like you did a lot of quality analysis in your posts on content, and me chipping in wasn't going to add any new value to those discussions. My reads ended up aligning relatively closely with yours.

To provide my thoughts on PoD:

PoD spent quite a bit of his post defending his playstyle in this game. However, it doesn't seem to have really come to fruition with any hard reads yet. Not enough to scumread but feels a little less genuine- trying out something new but with little observable results other than "I'm trying out something new!"

Basically takes Whad's read as justification for his vote on Goat. Feels a bit sheepy. Again, not a scumread but something to keep in mind. Still no hard content contributed by this slot other than the Calix observation.

Lynches I would find acceptable today: Goat, Calix, G4slight.

Very interesting. I will now go through a list of scum/town PoD scenarios and their motivation:

1-Scum PoD might not want to turn on Goat since Goat seems favorably inclined towards him.
2-Scum PoD might vote Goat if scum PoD is having a hard time scumhunting and coming up with his own reads. (I hadn't considered this until you pointed it out, Kovath) I would like to note that PoD hadn't voted anyone (and was the only player in the game without a vote placed) until after my post #66 in which I asked him to place a vote.

3-Town PoD might not want to vote Goat if he thinks pressure is better placed elsewhere.
4-Town PoD might vote Goat if he is weirded out by the buddying and wants to press for more information on Goat's alignment.

I'm inclined to lean towards option 4 mostly based on gut and based on the fact that PoD is scumhunting (albeit feebly).

[Kovath]

Very interesting. I will now go through a list of scum/town PoD scenarios and their motivation:

1-Scum PoD might not want to turn on Goat since Goat seems favorably inclined towards him.
2-Scum PoD might vote Goat if scum PoD is having a hard time scumhunting and coming up with his own reads. (I hadn't considered this until you pointed it out, Kovath) I would like to note that PoD hadn't voted anyone (and was the only player in the game without a vote placed) until after my post #66 in which I asked him to place a vote.

3-Town PoD might not want to vote Goat if he thinks pressure is better placed elsewhere.
4-Town PoD might vote Goat if he is weirded out by the buddying and wants to press for more information on Goat's alignment.

I'm inclined to lean towards option 4 mostly based on gut and based on the fact that PoD is scumhunting (albeit feebly).

I am leaning toward #2 of your listed options until I see PoD come out with something original and substantive. I only see #4 as plausible if he backs up with something other than just sheeping your read.

For someone who has stated a preference for personal interactions with other players and own analysis, I've seen very little of that in this game. To reiterate, although that thing with Goat was indeed his own interaction, it's mildly alarming that he can't bother to put in his own words and thoughts what rubs him wrong about it, instead just copying yours. Not ringing major bells yet but...

What's your thoughts on my lynch list for today, Whad? Which one would you prefer?

[Whad]

I am leaning toward #2 of your listed options until I see PoD come out with something original and substantive. I only see #4 as plausible if he backs up with something other than just sheeping your read.

For someone who has stated a preference for personal interactions with other players and own analysis, I've seen very little of that in this game. To reiterate, although that thing with Goat was indeed his own interaction, it's mildly alarming that he can't bother to put in his own words and thoughts what rubs him wrong about it, instead just copying yours. Not ringing major bells yet but...

What's your thoughts on my lynch list for today, Whad? Which one would you prefer?

Interesting point. I'll file that one away to think on, since PoD isn't a priority in my mind right now.

I agree with lynching G4slight or Calix.

-Goat's play seems very bold and attention grabbing for a mafia member, and I just can't see why scum would want to gain that much negative attention so early in the game. I can see town motivation behind his posts to help boot us out of RVS. Goat's play also reeks of "too scummy to be scum".

[Calix]

Only going to be around for the next 3 hours as I have to attend my sister's graduation, so I'll just post some reads.

Banana, Whad, Kovath are town for me. The first two are shamelessly based on meta, as I don't see many similarities between their scum games and their play-style here. Kovath is more of a POE kind of thing because I think Goatse/ Gaslight/ POD are where the scum lie, in order of likeliness.

Banana is partly meta-based (more aggressive and willing to push players/ re-evaluate than she does as scum) and partly because I agree with the pushes she has made. Meanwhile, Whad's logic actually makes sense, he makes original points and he's not being opportunistic or making weird pushes like he did in his scum game.



If Banana is indeed "trying to shift attention from Calix", Banana has only served to bring more attention to her by pursuing this line of questioning with you.

The entire "Banana defending Calix" point was stretched out to hilarious proportions. Call me cocky, but the idea of Banana trying to defend me is mad. That is all :laugh:

In any case, hardly anyone else here will understand why I find that amusing. I'll just say that I was initially null-reading Gaslight as just trying to make some retarded pre-flip associations (as MS players are prone to doing) but his 'explanation' for the Banana/ Calix idea is clouded and doesn't show a transparent thought process.

I agree that Banana's post did not come across as defending anyone. Consequently, his read feels forced, like he had to fake it and ended up overstating his level of confidence in that read when it wasn't warranted.

Contrast Gaslight with Whad's post here. No room for ambiguity in that response. (highlighted)


I actually really dislike this post since you fence sit or say you like everyone you've mentioned. Scum often have a hard time scumhunting since they know who the actual scum are in the game.

Also, you said that your motives early on were to say questionable things and see how G4slight responded. Well here is how he responded. What do you glean from G4slight's response? What did you hope to get from his responses?



This next quote really REALLY bothers me. You like PoD's playstyle so you are adverse to lynching him?!? Seems like someone (Goat) is trying really hard to buddy PoD. Also, why do you keep answering questions for G4slight and defending him (see your question to Kovath)? If G4slight is "obviously the most scummy and reacting the worst to pressure" then why not vote him?

unvote

Given that I have to leave around ~6 hours before EOD and there is no chance that I will be back before then, and given how almost all the town need to vote to lynch successfully, I will be voting for Gaslight/ Goatse when I leave.

If anyone comes around before then and they know they will be around at EOD, please unvote. It'll allow for more mobility at EOD.

[Calix]

While reading, my strongest scum reads were Goatse and POD until POD made that wall-post where he voted for Goatse. Given that a) Goatse had been flattering towards POD and b) the activity has been low enough that bussing isn't the optimal move IMO, I am more inclined to think that POD is town for that post.


I saw that someone else said they were going to vote Banana, and I didnt really necessarily want to put Banana at L-1. My reasoning for not voting him at least.
Dunno, but I was always able to read people better when they talk to me directly and I talk to them directly. Just like what we are doing right now. I read you better this way. I dont really read people based on them talking to other people directly.

I also find this part townie in tone. First part shows that he gives a fuck about not wantonly placing people at L-1 early, second part feels care-free and genuine, which I generally read as town because it shows that he's posting off-hand and isn't worried about how he's seen.

There is also the fact that Goatse's reason for town-reading POD does not make any fucking sense to me. POD has already pointed it out, but I'd like to add that it's such a weird comment that I cannot imagine Goatse/ POD being in a scum team together. Reminds me of that Whad comment to Iced about how he thinks "they have the same role" - it's too bizarre and doesn't make sense for a W/W interaction. Why would you draw attention to the entire scum team like that?



I don't like how POD jumped into the game with this post...


This is how this is going to work. I can easily find scums based on 1 on 1 conversation. I would like to have a 1 on 1 conversation with everyone in this game.

Anybody want to go first?

...when the only question he asked was this to Gaslight...


what do you think of the game so far?

Given that is a very generic, non-specific question, I don't understand how this would help him with his proposed 1v1 idea, given that such non-specific questions only generate superficial answers that do not divine much about alignment.

At the time, it rubbed me the wrong way as I suspected it was a scum move to show off how useful they were being, meanwhile not actually pushing the discussion forward. In retrospect (given his explanation), probably more of a 'bad town' tell than anything actually scummy.

He has also made some questionable posts where he completely ignores context.


Trying to discredit a player from 1 game in the past is a big scumtell.

Not sure how anyone missed Banana's animosity towards FM Foxtrot.


I have a slight scumread on Calix. I believe that if she was town, she would post a lot more often. One game where she was the Godfather, she was lurking very hard, and nobody really tried to lynched her or her replacement even tho I was pushing on Calix that game.

For context, he characterises replacing out of the game for real-life reasons as 'lurking very hard' and uses this to form a scum-read. This is not even objectively true, as I still rank among one of the highest posters in that game, and lurking is NOT a part of my established scum meta. He also ignores that I replaced out of several games at the same time.

However I can acknowledge that I am biased here, as his last post irritates me. As it's his second game where he's used this as a reason to scum-read me, I'm going to ask him to stop fucking doing it.

Overall, I'm concluding null-town, largely because of the weird Goatse/ POD deal which doesn't seem like bussing. If Goatse flips scum, POD is most likely town. Can't say that the same rule applies if POD flips scum.

[Calix]

Goat's play seems very bold and attention grabbing for a mafia member, and I just can't see why scum would want to gain that much negative attention so early in the game. I can see town motivation behind his posts to help boot us out of RVS. Goat's play also reeks of "too scummy to be scum".

I do not agree with this logic at all. Town only has one ML so it is plausible that scum would act in an outrageous fashion in order to get a Day 1 pass. My reasons for finding Goatse scummy have more to do with his strange thought patterns. Unlike Banana and yourself, I can't relate to his thinking or understand how he came to the conclusions he did. I don't think this can be adequately explained by wanting to push the game out of RVS, because your reasoning should at least have SOME grounding in what has been posted. In general, I find "it was a joke/ reaction-testing" as a defense to be a cop-out for scummy behaviour.

I have seen Goatse's town play before (assuming that he was playing pro-town in Illuminati??? although since his play was consistent with the Beginner's Game, I'm assuming that he was) and both times he made original points that went against the grain WITHOUT looking scummy. He is also a proponent of WIFOM and 'too scummy to be scum' so it is plausible that he is trying to use that to his advantage.

(he died N1 in both games so it won't take you very long to look through the posts, but I'll link shortly since this is a meta read)

While I can acknowledge that Goatse has only been around at the start of the game (much like myself), his characterisation of players and his general reads rub me the wrong way. Some examples include...

- Characterising Kovath and I were "grilling" players. All I had done at that point was ask some flimsy questions

- His potential buddying with POD by referring to his play (despite giving no indications that he's read past games with POD, and given he calls POD a 'town leader', has not done this)

- Speaking on Gaslight's behalf on two occasions (something that would ACTUALLY fall under defending a player when it looked like Gaslight would fall under the spotlight)

[side note: Did Gaslight ever comment on Goatse's posts where he put words into his mouth?]

- Claiming he was doing it on purpose. He leaves a short while later. Starting fires before disappearing, while not always a scum-motivated move, is not something I can reconcile with a town mindset either. If a town reaction-tested, they would have shown what they got out of it and used the results to push on scum leads. This play just reminds me of Stealthbomber16. For those not in the know, he is a player also known for doing insanely scummy things and 'reaction-testing', especially as scum.


Kovath I'm a noob with 0% winrate and I can see that g4slight is obviously the most scummy acting and reacting the worst to pressure, why do you need to vote him and take jabs at him? Do you think this makes you seem more town-acting than if you focused on somebody else?

- Thinks Gaslight is scummy but doesn't move his vote away from a RVS one. Not seeing any sort of town motivation to not vote for Gaslight/ Kovath in this post. Even better, he accuses Kovath of trying to fake being town by voting for Gaslight. Again, he does not back this up with a vote. Bear in mind that this is AFTER he claims he was being scummy on purpose. (aka, after he's tipped people off)

It should be noted that he attacks Kovath for voting for Gaslight, another scum-read.

Conclusion: Goatse/ Gaslight is the most plausible scum team at the moment and one of them should be the lynch today. Anyone who pops in should comment on this.

[G4slight]

Yeah actually I did comment on Goats' weird af post.

[Calix]

Decided to look at Kovath's posts. The first two posts are mostly here to provide a bit more context to Kovath's posts so far. Most of the early potential trolling isn't included.


Whad is putting in serious analytical work of content that I am finding few gaps in. Reading as town, definitely would not agree to lynch today.

Banana hasn't been doing the same type of things as Whad, but she's been probing and on point with her questions and short replies. Slight town lean.

G4 has been reacting strangely to pressure and appears to be on the backfoot for the moment. Not liking leaps and gaps in some of his logic chains, seems to shift his positions in order to better fit his story in response to questions. Slight scum lean.

Haven't seen enough from Goat, Calix, and PoD. Null overall.

I'm a little curious as to how this 'random vote' thing has been carried out so far. I'll look a bit deeper into how it's kept moving.

Strange that he finds Goatse to be a 'null' read. Given how much I have found in his posts, it's hard to believe that Kovath (a player perfectly capable of deep analysis) would gloss over everything he's done as 'not seeing enough'.

I wonder if he has anything to say about the votes now...none of his later posts suggest that he followed through with that last comment.


I would also say that: Banana neither attacked the accuser nor explicitly defended the accused, only questioned the vote.

It's wasn't a defense, and I personally would not treat it as a scumtell. An incidental tell to support a stronger case at best.

The oddest thing for me about Kovath's play is that he talks in a fair amount of depth about why POD could be potential scum, yet he does not place him on his 'acceptable lynches' list.

Instead, he suggests that I would be more acceptable. (presumably implying that he would support a policy-lynch on me)

For someone who has not provided much reasoning for why POD could be town, this is a noteworthy omission.


I felt like you did a lot of quality analysis in your posts on content, and me chipping in wasn't going to add any new value to those discussions. My reads ended up aligning relatively closely with yours.

To provide my thoughts on PoD:

PoD spent quite a bit of his post defending his playstyle in this game. However, it doesn't seem to have really come to fruition with any hard reads yet. Not enough to scumread but feels a little less genuine- trying out something new but with little observable results other than "I'm trying out something new!"

Basically takes Whad's read as justification for his vote on Goat. Feels a bit sheepy. Again, not a scumread but something to keep in mind. Still no hard content contributed by this slot other than the Calix observation.

Lynches I would find acceptable today: Goat, Calix, G4slight.


I am leaning toward #2 of your listed options until I see PoD come out with something original and substantive. I only see #4 as plausible if he backs up with something other than just sheeping your read.

For someone who has stated a preference for personal interactions with other players and own analysis, I've seen very little of that in this game. To reiterate, although that thing with Goat was indeed his own interaction, it's mildly alarming that he can't bother to put in his own words and thoughts what rubs him wrong about it, instead just copying yours. Not ringing major bells yet but...

What's your thoughts on my lynch list for today, Whad? Which one would you prefer?

Notice that he also goes out of his way to say that his comments on POD are not indicative of a scum-read, seeing as he does this on three occasions. His other comments closely align with Whad's thoughts (as he said himself) and are not something that he hedges with nearly as much as he does with his POD read.

His reasoning for why he doesn't think POD is scum, especially after noting a string of potential scummy behaviour, eludes me and is something he should explain in more depth.

[Calix]

Glad to hear it, lovie. Anything else you want to comment on about my posts while we're both here?

[Calix]

Vote Count (in case EOD is hectic)

Calix (1 [L-3]):
GoatseOntheCupboard
GoatseOntheCupboard (2 [L-2]):
BananaCucho, powerofdeath
BananaCucho (1 [L-3]):
G4slight
G4slight (2 [L-2]):
Kovath, Whad

[Calix]

Below are two of the main quotes (both from the Illuminati??? game) that have influenced my Goatse read, and explain why I don't believe he is actually "too scummy to be scum" like Whad was arguing. (since I think it's intentional as he clearly knows enough about WIFOM to try out something like acting in an obviously scummy manner to gain town-cred)

Turns out that he did not talk as much about WIFOM in the Beginner's Game and I don't think that the posts where he did have anything to do with his alignment now. Feel free to read over his posts if you want to get a feel yourself.


This is only a bad move if I am really citizen, because I am now the #1 target for the mafia killers, despite lacking a useful night ability, although the mafia killers know that I am the #1 target which will influence their decision to hit me, thus making them possibly attack the next "town acting player". If the doctor is thinking on the same level the mafia are, the exact same scenario will happen where the mafia either attack me, or another town acting player with (hopefully for the mafia) a useful night action. I think this is a good move, unless somebody wants to educate me on why it is not.


Hammer Helz refuses to lead town, he knows everyone will find that scummy but does it anyways. Is he pretending to softclaim a town power role, by trying to make the scum not target him because of his promise of no leadership skills? Is he tryinf to lurk and win as an evil? Probably not tbh. In poker weak = strong and steong = weak so i read Helz impulse as town because of how scummy he chooses to act. IMO impulse hammer is my #1 town read until further events.

This is more of a side point as it's about what level of WIFOM I, personally, think he's operating on for this game.

[Calix]

The fact that Gaslight only popped in to respond to a question I asked about him does not reassure me that he's town. That complete lack of initiative and self-interested nature is not what I'd consider town-like.

Conversely, more people are scum-reading Gaslight and scum-reading him harder, which means more people that will vote for him compared to those who would vote for Goatse. Thus, it would make more sense to vote for Goatse and ensure that both of them remain a viable choice. Hm.

[Whad]

The fact that Gaslight only popped in to respond to a question I asked about him does not reassure me that he's town. That complete lack of initiative and self-interested nature is not what I'd consider town-like.

Conversely, more people are scum-reading Gaslight and scum-reading him harder, which means more people that will vote for him compared to those who would vote for Goatse. Thus, it would make more sense to vote for Goatse and ensure that both of them remain a viable choice. Hm.

At the moment they are both viable choices since they're both at L-2. I like your recent content and it's enough to placate me for now. I won't be on near EoD but I highly prefer G4slight as our lynch today. My vote is going to stay here but do as you will.

[Calix]

L-1. Do not vote without stating your intention to hammer first.

I've seen Goatse reading the thread. (although he seems to have disappeared) I trust that he is in a position to defend himself against the points made against him.

Sadly, I have no choice but to leave now. I encourage everyone to exercise good judgment when it comes to weighing up any defenses or/ and role claims that may take place in my absence. I for one cannot bring myself to be worried about the latter.

GoatseOnTheCupboard

Peace.

[GoatseOntheCupboard]

Below are two of the main quotes (both from the Illuminati??? game) that have influenced my Goatse read, and explain why I don't believe he is actually "too scummy to be scum" like Whad was arguing. (since I think it's intentional as he clearly knows enough about WIFOM to try out something like acting in an obviously scummy manner to gain town-cred)

Turns out that he did not talk as much about WIFOM in the Beginner's Game and I don't think that the posts where he did have anything to do with his alignment now. Feel free to read over his posts if you want to get a feel yourself.





This is more of a side point as it's about what level of WIFOM I, personally, think he's operating on for this game.

Hey calix! I think that the last 2 posts you made reveal a lot about your character/allignment this game. Anyways there are a few decent points you've made and some bad ones, namely
1. In those 2 posts you quoted, I was the godfather and tried incredibly hard to act town by claiming my role day 1 and then bussing my afk bad player teammate. So are you quoting these 2 games and posting them not as proof that scum Goatse says weird things, but that scum Goatse loves WIFOM and would definitely act very town in one game and weird/seemingly anti-town in the next in order to confuse people that I've played with? (makes sense tbh, since I know you and banana were both in that game). I find it weird that you didn't explain to the town that I was actually godfather in the illuminati game? Seems much smarter to be truthful and not leave information out of your posts than to purposefully be ambiguous to make your point that I'm scum. Anyways all that's proven is that I act town when I'm scum and act dtow when I'm town sooo whatever. I was just trying a new line in RVS anyways.

Anyways, I've explained my reasoning behind making weird nonsensical posts, especially where I put wifom words in gaslights mouth as me trying to see how others would react to strange town behaviour. I was not trying to act anti-town anyways, more to try to provoke hopefully honest reactions from town and scum, though I can see why some of you read it that way.

Anyways I actually think it's 0/10 so bad that you are limiting the two likely votes today to be me or gaslight. Idk how nobody has made the point that gaslight is an inexperienced and bad player and reacts unpredictably to pressure but hey, if you want to force a mislynch while simultaneously ignoring PoDs promise to interview players 1on1 and then lurking, and kovaths lack of personality, town/scumreads and obvious sheepvoting and blindly following the popular town opinion that's cool. You are litwrally my #1 scumread because your post seems so narrow minded and literally like it's trying to push town to Lynch 1 of 2 players you know are town. And that's impressive because every post of kovaths I've read might as well have the signature of "hey don't mind me, I'm a lurking sheep scum trying to fly below the radar and pick on a weak new player (gaslight).

[GoatseOntheCupboard]

In my L-3 opinion I would Lynch in the order of calix, khovak then gaslight, because I think calix and khovak are acting scummy and that gaslight is not contributing anything except making everybody talk about him and giving a shield to PoD and khovak who I think need more attention from other players.

[GoatseOntheCupboard]

Calix in case you are still here

[G4slight]

Glad to hear it, lovie. Anything else you want to comment on about my posts while we're both here?



On mobile atm after work I can read it in depth and adequately respond

[Kovath]

Decided to look at Kovath's posts. The first two posts are mostly here to provide a bit more context to Kovath's posts so far. Most of the early potential trolling isn't included.



Strange that he finds Goatse to be a 'null' read. Given how much I have found in his posts, it's hard to believe that Kovath (a player perfectly capable of deep analysis) would gloss over everything he's done as 'not seeing enough'.

I wonder if he has anything to say about the votes now...none of his later posts suggest that he followed through with that last comment.



The oddest thing for me about Kovath's play is that he talks in a fair amount of depth about why POD could be potential scum, yet he does not place him on his 'acceptable lynches' list.

Instead, he suggests that I would be more acceptable. (presumably implying that he would support a policy-lynch on me)

For someone who has not provided much reasoning for why POD could be town, this is a noteworthy omission.





Notice that he also goes out of his way to say that his comments on POD are not indicative of a scum-read, seeing as he does this on three occasions. His other comments closely align with Whad's thoughts (as he said himself) and are not something that he hedges with nearly as much as he does with his POD read.

His reasoning for why he doesn't think POD is scum, especially after noting a string of potential scummy behaviour, eludes me and is something he should explain in more depth.

I was wondering when someone was going to call me out for that.

Anyway, my thoughts are this. I find G4slight and Goatse to be scummier, G4 for aforementioned reasons and Goatse now with a continued defense of G4 as a new player and inexperienced with pressure. I saw how that worked out with TimeForce in the Music game; the possibility exists that G4 is actually town and Goatse is looking to get town cred with him for the defense. He's also applied the go-to, vanilla explanation of "I wanted to get honest reactions" in answer to questions about scummy behavior. Sometimes it's just that, but often it's used to veil scum intentions, to throw back pressure and identify the most pro-town players.

For PoD, I am willing to acknowledge the possibility of feeble town motivation and want to see more from him in the coming days. For all I know, he's away / laying low and analysing. If his trend continues on day 2, then I'd be willing to lynch him but the other two flips would yield us more information imo. Also, I don't have a gut feeling on him, while mine on the other two are stronger.

I am no longer willing to lynch Calix. I don't think I need to explain myself there.

[powerofdeath]

Damn wtf with all of those posts trying to read me.

I don't really like Goatse's reaction to Calix vote putting him at L-1.


Calix in case you are still here

It seemed like Goatse is trying to ping Calix and try to convince her to unvote him. This kind of behavior kinda made me think he is more concerned on his own survival than actually scumhunting.

Especially now with about 1 hour left in the day and I dont think anybody really want to lynch Calix. Goatse havent really made any good argument. He didnt convince any of the town to hop on Calix's train, and isn't trying hard enough. His tone was more like "Okay I accepted this fate" than like "WTF DONT LYNCH ME?!" make me think this is the correct lynch.

[powerofdeath]

For the G4Slight's train. I really null read him. I am not too confident to lynch him just yet. I want to read him more for day 2 to see if hes the right lynch.

[Kovath]

Little more than an hour left.

I'll wait until around the 30 minute mark before making final evaluations on the lynch.

[GoatseOntheCupboard]

Damn wtf with all of those posts trying to read me.

I don't really like Goatse's reaction to Calix vote putting him at L-1.



It seemed like Goatse is trying to ping Calix and try to convince her to unvote him. This kind of behavior kinda made me think he is more concerned on his own survival than actually scumhunting.

Especially now with about 1 hour left in the day and I dont think anybody really want to lynch Calix. Goatse havent really made any good argument. He didnt convince any of the town to hop on Calix's train, and isn't trying hard enough. His tone was more like "Okay I accepted this fate" than like "WTF DONT LYNCH ME?!" make me think this is the correct lynch.

Calix is afk and will not be unvoting me. I just want to point out calix successfully changing the train on a member of the town who is more likely to contribute than gaslight on dubious circumstances, her safe as heck null reads on her buddy khovak who somehow escapes persecution despite his lack of aggression, safe tactics and sheepvoting, and the fact that even if nobody wants to follow me on calix or khovak then g4slight who I personally read as a bad, null player is probably a better lynch as he will contribute less to discussions if he is town. GG lads, hammer if you want I am citizen.

[RLVG]

Just a FYI, day ends in like 40ish min.

[Kovath]

RIP

GoatseOnTheCupboard

[The Godfather]

GoatseOntheCupboard has been lynched! Stand by for the host's review and day-end post!


Calix ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/27116') (1 [L-3]): GoatseOntheCupboard ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=602291')
GoatseOntheCupboard ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/16005') (4 [L-0]): Calix ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=603263'), BananaCucho ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=602304'), Kovath ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=603357'), powerofdeath ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=602963')
BananaCucho ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/10111') (1 [L-3]): G4slight ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=602439')
G4slight ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/28354') (1 [L-3]): Whad ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=602475')

[RLVG]

Night 1

GoatseOnTheCupboard was lynched.
He was a Godfather!!!

Players :



Kovath

powerofdeath
BananaCucho
G4slight
Calix
Whad
GoatseOntheCupboard (Godfather, Lynched Day 1)



01:00:00:00

[RLVG]

Day 2

https://waywardwomen.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/victorian-pub.jpg?w=538

Nobody died tonight. Since there was no tragedy tonight, the Host forced everyone to watch the movie Plan 9 from Outer Space.
It's certainly more productive than drinking the sorrows away.

Players :



Kovath

powerofdeath
BananaCucho
G4slight
Calix
Whad
GoatseOntheCupboard (Godfather, Lynched Day 1)



02:03:00:00

[RLVG]

The host was busy watching a movie in Cinema and thus the day started later than it should.

Sorry!

4

[Calix]

powerofdeath Kovath BananaCucho Whad G4slight

If one of you guys roleblocked/ healed/ have a damning night result on someone, kindly state it now. I claim no such thing.

I'd like to have a flawless Day 2 win, so let's see if that happens.

[powerofdeath]

i wasnt roleblocked or attacked

[powerofdeath]

g4slight

My fos for 2nd mafia.

[Calix]

i wasnt roleblocked or attacked

Noted.

Any thoughts on who Goatse's scum buddy might be?

[Calix]

g4slight

My fos for 2nd mafia.

Why do you think that? I agree, but I'd like to hear your spec on it.

Kovath/ Gaslight is where I think the 2nd mafia lies.

[powerofdeath]

G4 had his vote on banana, was around during the time he couldve hammered goatse, and it made me think he was trying to afk the rest of the day as an execuse to not hammer hoping the day would be skipped. Luckily Kovath hammered. I just think its very anti town to not hammer at that point

[Calix]

G4 had his vote on banana, was around during the time he couldve hammered goatse, and it made me think he was trying to afk the rest of the day as an execuse to not hammer hoping the day would be skipped. Luckily Kovath hammered. I just think its very anti town to not hammer at that point

I wonder if it really IS that obvious and it's already GG. Having the entire scum team be the leading trains on Day 1...that's hilarious.

Since I don't think scum would bus with this level of activity, everyone on Goatse's train looks better off for it. This isn't as applicable to Banana as her vote was pure RVS, but I think she's town in any case.

Kovath didn't HAVE to appear to hammer Goatse. He could have just lurked and pretended he wasn't around, so he has that going for him.

[BananaCucho]

I wonder if it really IS that obvious and it's already GG. Having the entire scum team be the leading trains on Day 1...that's hilarious.

Since I don't think scum would bus with this level of activity, everyone on Goatse's train looks better off for it. This isn't as applicable to Banana as her vote was pure RVS, but I think she's town in any case.

Kovath didn't HAVE to appear to hammer Goatse. He could have just lurked and pretended he wasn't around, so he has that going for him.

Yes, I was going to say this. Nobody stated intent to hammer, and there was no guarantee goatse would be hammered. Unless bussing, Calix + Kovath (for the ally oop both of you) should be off limits to lynching today at least.

Also lol that I RVS voted the Godfather

[powerofdeath]

Whad I was throwing random sentences with questionable reasoning out there and really just wanted to see how g4slight would react to it. I see banana throwing loaded questions at g4slight too and I think it's smart and good to see how people react not only to standard questioning but "Lol why do you think calix and banana are on a team" and other logical fallacies. G4slight seems to be reacting quite horribly to pressure, he seems inexperienced though so not necessarily a scumtell. I hate how he is being aggressive towards his accuser Banana but not towards any other player, unlike Calix and Kovath who have already started the grilling.

His "read" on G4slight

[Whad]

Last night I was attacked and healed. Thanks doc!

[powerofdeath]

He kinda wanted to tell us that he sorta "scumread" G4Slight but then later mention it was just inexperienced and not necessarily a scumtell, like he didnt want us to scumread him for that.

[powerofdeath]

Last night I was attacked and healed. Thanks doc!

That rules out roleblocking.

[Whad]

This was going to be my pretty weak-sauce last will, but I was busy:

Hey townies. Sorry this last will is not the greatest. I've run short on time but wanted to submit at least something.

Calix gets major townpoints since she could have easily voted G4slight and diverted the lynch from the Godfather (Goat) if she was the last remaining mafia.

Kovath
Banana
I've been townreading both of these players. They were both also on the Goat lynch.

I think it's basically now between PoD and G4slight.
I still find G4slight the scummiest of the two based on what he has posted, himself (also did not vote Goat). But my question is, would the mafia godfather answer questions in the day thread for his mafia minion G4slight (#17)? or would the Godfather blatantly attempt to get the heat off his minion by claiming he has a cool posting strategy (#68)? Based off of Goat's interactions I think PoD is the scummiest, but based off of textual analysis, I would go for G4slight.

[Calix]

Last night I was attacked and healed. Thanks doc!

Doctor should immediately claim to verify this. That gives us 2/6 confirmed players to work with.

Bonus points if said Doctor is Gaslight/ Kovath.

[powerofdeath]

Okay if someone is roleblocked, we can just get both power roles to claim and have 4 clears, and its definitely autowin for town from there. Even if scum cc pr, or try to lurk among citizens, we have a mislynch.

[powerofdeath]

This was going to be my pretty weak-sauce last will, but I was busy:

Hey townies. Sorry this last will is not the greatest. I've run short on time but wanted to submit at least something.

Calix gets major townpoints since she could have easily voted G4slight and diverted the lynch from the Godfather (Goat) if she was the last remaining mafia.

Kovath
Banana
I've been townreading both of these players. They were both also on the Goat lynch.

I think it's basically now between PoD and G4slight.
I still find G4slight the scummiest of the two based on what he has posted, himself (also did not vote Goat). But my question is, would the mafia godfather answer questions in the day thread for his mafia minion G4slight (#17)? or would the Godfather blatantly attempt to get the heat off his minion by claiming he has a cool posting strategy (#68)? Based off of Goat's interactions I think PoD is the scummiest, but based off of textual analysis, I would go for G4slight.

You really scumread me );

[BananaCucho]

That rules out roleblocking.

Unless cc'd. If not there's always the old "no attack, claim doc'd" way to go but that's also unlikely. If we vote up the doc they can reveal ans won't be cc'd, if we vote up scum and they claim doc they are cc'd. If no doc is found by mass claim we lynch Whad.

For today Whad also is not in the lynch pool.

[powerofdeath]

Doctor should immediately claim to verify this. That gives us 2/6 confirmed players to work with.

Bonus points if said Doctor is Gaslight/ Kovath.

And a second power role can also claim to give us 3 clears.

I can start, I healed whad last night. Doctor here, at your service :)

[Calix]

This was going to be my pretty weak-sauce last will, but I was busy:

Hey townies. Sorry this last will is not the greatest. I've run short on time but wanted to submit at least something.

Calix gets major townpoints since she could have easily voted G4slight and diverted the lynch from the Godfather (Goat) if she was the last remaining mafia.

Kovath
Banana
I've been townreading both of these players. They were both also on the Goat lynch.

I think it's basically now between PoD and G4slight.
I still find G4slight the scummiest of the two based on what he has posted, himself (also did not vote Goat). But my question is, would the mafia godfather answer questions in the day thread for his mafia minion G4slight (#17)? or would the Godfather blatantly attempt to get the heat off his minion by claiming he has a cool posting strategy (#68)? Based off of Goat's interactions I think PoD is the scummiest, but based off of textual analysis, I would go for G4slight.

I really really REALLY cannot see how you concluded that Goatse's interactions make POD look the worst. If anything, his blatant buddying of Gaslight/ random distancing of Kovath are more obvious.

Can you walk me through this read in more detail?

[BananaCucho]

Doctor should immediately claim to verify this. That gives us 2/6 confirmed players to work with.

Bonus points if said Doctor is Gaslight/ Kovath.

Naw if we hit mass claim and no doc claims Whad is lynched

Doc don't claim yet

[BananaCucho]

And a second power role can also claim to give us 3 clears.

I can start, I healed whad last night. Doctor here, at your service :)

Son of a bitch

[Calix]

If Sheriff/ Detective has a clear on a player, reveal now. Bonus points if said clear is NOT on Whad/ POD.

I hard-claim Citizen, by the by.

[BananaCucho]

I guess we can mass claim lol. Unless second doc POD is dead tonight anyway

Mass claim up, I'm citizen

[Calix]

Godfather - Goatse
Mafia - ???
Doctor - POD
Citizen - Calix
Citizen - Banana

[Calix]

I really doubt RLVG would put in two Doctors. That would be unbelievably shitty and a massive nerf to the town. (no invests PLUS counter-claims)

[BananaCucho]

Unless an extremely lucky guess by Whad, both POD and Whad are conf town

Hopefully Kovath or gaslight is the TPR and that would make 3

[BananaCucho]

I really doubt RLVG would put in two Doctors. That would be unbelievably shitty and a massive nerf to the town. (no invests PLUS counter-claims)

At this point they could doc chain heal to victory. OP OP

[Calix]

Unless an extremely lucky guess by Whad, both POD and Whad are conf town

Hopefully Kovath or gaslight is the TPR and that would make 3

One of them HAS to be the last TPR, lol?

[Whad]

I am also citizen.

[Calix]

One of them HAS to be the last TPR, lol?

Wait, never mind. Forgot Whad hasn't claimed.

[powerofdeath]

ok g4 or kovath is pr then, this is very good for us.

[Calix]

Return to Normalcy 2.0, I sense it.

[BananaCucho]

Wait, never mind. Forgot Whad hasn't claimed.

It'd OK he was citizen thankfully

What a lucky series of events lol

[G4slight]

No PR here just citizen

[Calix]

No PR here just citizen

This means Kovath is confirmed TPR, therefore confirmed town.

Gaslight/ Banana have to be where the last scum lie by default.

G4slight

[BananaCucho]

g4slight

[Calix]

Hopefully Kovath is an Investigative with a clear on one of them so that we can end the game today.

[Calix]

So don't hammer yet, Whad.

[Whad]

This means Kovath is confirmed TPR, therefore confirmed town.

Gaslight/ Banana have to be where the last scum lie by default.

G4slight

Not so hasty! Let's wait for Kovath to report in before voting.

G4slight, of the 4 citizen claimers, who do you think is the scum and why?

[BananaCucho]

POD, Kovath, and Whad are all confirmed

No way that mafia can win, just concede now

[Calix]

90% sure it's Gaslight. Pretty tempted to just bag it and tag it, lol.

[powerofdeath]

This is autowin unless Kovath was roleblocked or we have a framer to fuck up Kovath's result.

Just to confirm RLVG

Can the last mafia member submit a night action and perform the factional kill?

If they can't, we won. If they can and we have a consort or a framer, meh we will manage.

[BananaCucho]

Not so hasty! Let's wait for Kovath to report in before voting.

G4slight, of the 4 citizen claimers, who do you think is the scum and why?

Kovath is confirmed town, so are you and POD

I know I am town so the last mafia is gaslight or Calix and I highly doubt its Calix. Even if it is, Kovath is a likely investigative that can clear me or condemn calix tonight since POD is protecting them. There is no way mafia can win. If I was mafia I would concede now because its over

[powerofdeath]

Greedy bitches

[Calix]

This is autowin unless Kovath was roleblocked or we have a framer to fuck up Kovath's result.

Just to confirm RLVG

Can the last mafia member submit a night action and perform the factional kill?

If they can't, we won. If they can and we have a consort or a framer, meh we will manage.

They can't, so we've got this.

[powerofdeath]

They can't, so we've got this.

lmao gg

[Calix]

MFW town does awesomely in a 200-post game compared to the usual flailing in 2,000.

[G4slight]

Not so hasty! Let's wait for Kovath to report in before voting.

G4slight, of the 4 citizen claimers, who do you think is the scum and why?


Since there was no NK I'm inclined to believe PoD so by the process of elimination then Whad is also conf town.

Leaving myself and Banana so Banana has to be the last maf

banana

[powerofdeath]

Whad feel free to hammer if Kovath voted G4slight and Im not around.

Im not voting until Kovath checks in.

[Calix]

Since there was no NK I'm inclined to believe PoD so by the process of elimination then Whad is also conf town.

Leaving myself and Banana so Banana has to be the last maf

banana

Since when was I confirmed as town?

[powerofdeath]

MFW town does awesomely in a 200-post game compared to the usual flailing in 2,000.

Honestly I like 200-500 posts game so much better than 10000 posts S-FM with people overanalyzing and overplaying

[BananaCucho]

Since there was no NK I'm inclined to believe PoD so by the process of elimination then Whad is also conf town.

Leaving myself and Banana so Banana has to be the last maf

banana

Just concede mate its over

[Calix]

Just concede mate its over

He's decided to bugger off and hasn't even explained how I'm not a scum candidate in his eyes. I'm confident in this lynch now, Kovath be damned.

Either way, I am going to sleep. I expect this thread to be locked by the time I wake up.

:calix:

[G4slight]

He's decided to bugger off and hasn't even explained how I'm not a scum candidate in his eyes. I'm confident in this lynch now, Kovath be damned.

Either way, I am going to sleep. I expect this thread to be locked by the time I wake up.

:calix:

I really feel that banana is the last remaining scum based off yesterday, and the reasons I brought. Also the fact tha Whad was the target of the NK as Whad turning up killed would put me in a worse light.

[BananaCucho]

I really feel that banana is the last remaining scum based off yesterday, and the reasons I brought. Also the fact tha Whad was the target of the NK as Whad turning up killed would put me in a worse light.

And if you somehow convince them to mislynch me, it becomes between you and Calix

Just concede dude. This is like playing face hunter against control warrior and he drops Reno Jackson. Its over.

[G4slight]

And if you somehow convince them to mislynch me, it becomes between you and Calix

Just concede dude. This is like playing face hunter against control warrior and he drops Reno Jackson. Its over.

I also love a good game of hearthstone fam. But usually play priest or warrior. So I'm in it for the long game :p

[RLVG]

Can the last mafia member submit a night action and perform the factional kill?

Le what?


Mechanics :

Mafia has a Factional Kill, the player doing the kill sacrifices their role action to perform it.

[Kovath]

Sup guys.

Several noticed that I was playing a bit less actively last day, part of it was being busy and the other part was cuz...

I'm Detective. I tracked G4slight to Whad last night, so lynch him and it's gg.

Sorry guys... scum got wrecked this game.

[BananaCucho]

I also love a good game of hearthstone fam. But usually play priest or warrior. So I'm in it for the long game :p

You're missing the point. You're fighting a losing battle

Let's say you get me mislynched

POD is killed, Kovath if detective or sheriff checks you or Calix. If he's detective and checks you: he either sees you kill POD or he sees you do nothing meaning Calix killed POD, Calix is lynched

If he's sheriff and he checks you and sees you guilty, you're lynched, if inno then Calix is lynched

If he's roleblocker and he roleblocks you and no one dies, then you are lynched. If POD dies, Calix is lynched

If scum decides not to kill that effectively gives town another lynch since POD wouldn't have died, and with you and Calix left both can be lynched without lynching the other 3 players

If Kovath is doc he and POD heal chain and neither is ever killed or lynched. Everyone else is lynched

Scum cannot win. Me, Calix, and gaslight can be used interchangedly in the situations presented. No way for scum to win at this point. Checkmate.

[BananaCucho]

Sup guys.

Several noticed that I was playing a bit less actively last day, part of it was being busy and the other part was cuz...

I'm Detective. I tracked G4slight to Whad last night, so lynch him and it's gg.

Sorry guys... scum got wrecked this game.

Damnit you made me type the long post for nothing. The lel

[BananaCucho]

Still, even though scum got rekted, they still played better than Foxtrot :)

Kovath vote him

powerofdeath come hammer

[Kovath]

Still, even though scum got rekted, they still played better than Foxtrot :)

Kovath vote him

@powerofdeath (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php?u=3897) come hammer

LOL

G4slight

[Kovath]

This is somewhat hilarious since I was debating between tracking PoD or G4slight LOL

On another note, I'm surprised I wasn't transparently a TPR to people in D1 given my play in this game compared to others. I made it way more obvious than I intended tbh.

[G4slight]

You're missing the point. You're fighting a losing battle

Let's say you get me mislynched

POD is killed, Kovath if detective or sheriff checks you or Calix. If he's detective and checks you: he either sees you kill POD or he sees you do nothing meaning Calix killed POD, Calix is lynched

If he's sheriff and he checks you and sees you guilty, you're lynched, if inno then Calix is lynched

If he's roleblocker and he roleblocks you and no one dies, then you are lynched. If POD dies, Calix is lynched

If scum decides not to kill that effectively gives town another lynch since POD wouldn't have died, and with you and Calix left both can be lynched without lynching the other 3 players

If Kovath is doc he and POD heal chain and neither is ever killed or lynched. Everyone else is lynched

Scum cannot win. Me, Calix, and gaslight can be used interchangedly in the situations presented. No way for scum to win at this point. Checkmate.

I agree but the whole game throwing thing. Either way GG

[BananaCucho]

I agree but the whole game throwing thing. Either way GG

Naw game throwing =/= concede.

Game throw is be a sheriff and fake a guilty on a town getting both of you lynched to the point of losing the game

Conceding is saying "there is no way I can win. I choose death!"

[powerofdeath]

go die

g4slight

[The Godfather]

G4slight has been lynched! Stand by for the host's review and day-end post!


G4slight ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/28354') (4 [L-0]): powerofdeath ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=603984'), Calix ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=603763'), BananaCucho ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=603764'), Kovath ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=603936')

[RLVG]

The Town has won!

http://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/reconstruction/nast/images/sf_nast_02.jpg

The Godfather and his Framer were lynched in rapid succession with no loss of an innocent life.
This were truly a flawless victory for the Town and shall be a legend told to the grandchildren.

Good job to Kovath, Powerofdeath, BananaCucho, Calix and Whad!



Host commentary :

This game is a PERFECT example as to why a Day 1 No Lynch is a good option sometimes lol.
After the lynch of Goat, the Town went to a Perfect Streak : G4 was seen visiting Whad trying to kill them but Whad was healed by PoD. At that point it was impossible to lose.
It was exactly as Cryptonic had predicted.

The Town also had a fantastic mindset and cooperation, they pegged the scum down too quickly even without actions.

I also enjoyed reading the Last Will's that I received, well written.

If this setup were to ever be hosted again, it would require a Day 1 No Lynch or a Night 1 start.
Night 1 wouldn't be the best idea though as someone who signed up will be immediately killed with no dialogue.

[G4slight]

Sorry I suck Goats :( GG everyone

[Kovath]

The Town has won!

http://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/reconstruction/nast/images/sf_nast_02.jpg

The Godfather and his Framer were lynched in rapid succession with no loss of an innocent life.
This were truly a flawless victory for the Town and shall be a legend told to the grandchildren.

Good job to Kovath, Powerofdeath, BananaCucho, Calix and Whad!



Host commentary :

This game is a PERFECT example as to why a Day 1 No Lynch is a good option sometimes lol.
After the lynch of Goat, the Town went to a Perfect Streak : G4 was seen visiting Whad trying to kill them but Whad was healed by PoD. At that point it was impossible to lose.
It was exactly as Cryptonic had predicted.

The Town also had a fantastic mindset and cooperation, they pegged the scum down too quickly even without actions.

I also enjoyed reading the Last Will's that I received, well written.

If this setup were to ever be hosted again, it would require a Day 1 No Lynch or a Night 1 start.
Night 1 wouldn't be the best idea though as someone who signed up will be immediately killed with no dialogue.

I agree with this setup change.

[RLVG]

Constructive feedback here, what do you feel would benefit the game in the long run?
Any buffs or nerfs?

This is the shortest RLVG setup lol. Day 1 with Lynch Option was solely based on an agreement that my next setup would not include a Day 1 No Lynch after some roasting. :cheesy:

[BananaCucho]

This game is a PERFECT example as to why a Day 1 No Lynch is a good option sometimes lol.

No sir it's a good example of why day 1 lynch is glorious

If we mislynch it's 4v2 if doc heals, which is MLYLO, or 3v2 LYLO if no heal

If you don't have a day 1 lynch and doc doesn't heal its a day 2 MLYLO when no lynches have even occurred

A game =/= a good game for going forever. This was abtown stomp, but it was still a good game.

Calix for MVP

[RLVG]

I wonder how different it would've been if I specifically made Calix and BananaCucho the Mafia lol.

[Kovath]

I wonder how different it would've been if I specifically made Calix and BananaCucho the Mafia lol.

In this case, it might have been better to not one-shot rando the scum team, yeah, or at least make one of them scum.

Calix

[RLVG]

Oh yeah, on another note about the callout that I would never put two doctors in such a setup.

... I would if it was randomized that way actually. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Kovath]

Oh yeah, on another note about the callout that I would never put two doctors in such a setup.

... I would if it was randomized that way actually. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This is why I don't screw around with host meta lel

[DarknessB]

Constructive feedback here, what do you feel would benefit the game in the long run?
Any buffs or nerfs?

This is the shortest RLVG setup lol. Day 1 with Lynch Option was solely based on an agreement that my next setup would not include a Day 1 No Lynch after some roasting. :cheesy:

Do you one random or three random your setups? These teams were quite one-sided -- town got Banana (reigning S-FM Champion and top finisher in another season), Calix (top three S-FM finisher and generally relentless whichever faction she rolls), Kovath (a very promising new player on the site, clearly has a lot of off-site experience as well), POD (despite the Foxtrot thing, a very seasoned and skilled player / veteran here), and Whad (master of refusing to give his town reads -- ok, maybe this one doesn't fit as well :)). In contrast, scum got Goat (who is very new to FM and who has not survived until Day 2 in any game he's played so far -- partially bad luck, but partially just needing more game time) and G4slight (not sure how much experience he has, but new to the site at the very least)...

Reminds me of Illuminati 2.0 with Banana, Calix, me, Helz, ika, and SW versus a ton of new players plus FB and RLVG hydra (who were aggressively discredited as the one threat to neutralize early). I know some players criticize three roll for host meta considerations, but we it's also not as fun to have a loaded team on one side vs. a much less experienced team on the other.

[RLVG]

Do you one random or three random your setups? These teams were quite one-sided -- town got Banana (reigning S-FM Champion and top finisher in another season), Calix (top three S-FM finisher and generally relentless whichever faction she rolls), Kovath (a very promising new player on the site, clearly has a lot of off-site experience as well), POD (despite the Foxtrot shit, a very seasoned and skilled player / veteran here), and Whad (master of refusing to give his leads -- ok, maybe this one doesn't fit as well :)). In contrast, scum got Goat (who is very new to FM and who has not survived until Day 2 in any game he's played so far) and G4slight (not sure how much experience he has, but new to the site at the very least)...

Reminds me of Illuminati 2.0 with Banana, Calix, me, Helz, ika, and SW versus a ton of new players plus FB and RLVG. I know some players criticize three roll for host meta considerations, but we it's also not as fun to have a loaded team on one side vs. a much less experienced team on the other.

It was truly Randomized.

Fun fact, Firebringer would've been the Godfather - if he had responded to my PM. -_-

[DarknessB]

It was truly Randomized.

Fun fact, Firebringer would've been the Godfather - if he had responded to my PM. -_-

My point stands then, lol. Three random is your friend, RLVG. One random increases the chance of stomp games.

[Firebringer]

It was truly Randomized.

Fun fact, Firebringer would've been the Godfather - if he had responded to my PM. -_-

lol, I read the PM, I thought you would see I checked it.
I didn't PM back.

Mass communication failure from me, sorry about that.
I thought I was in the game lol. I almost pmed you asking for role card then I checked player list.

[DarknessB]

lol, I read the PM, I thought you would see I checked it.
I didn't PM back.

Mass communication failure from me, sorry about that.
I thought I was in the game lol. I almost pmed you asking for role card then I checked player list.

Now that the game is over, I can admit that RLVG sent me your role card:

You are the Host!

Names / Roles
1. FireBringer, Framer
2. Ika, Citizen
3. RLVG, Godfather
4. StealthBomber16, Citizen
5. Bananacucho, Serial Killer
6. Mattzed, Agent
7. PowerofDeath, Doctor
8. Orpz, Vigilante
9. Hypersniper, Investigator
10. Lolunic0rn, Escort
11. Fatalis, Citizen
12. Dagaen, Bus Driver
GG

[Whad]

Wow congratulations guys and thank you RLVG for hosting. This flawless victory wouldn't have been possible without PoD correctly choosing who to heal (me), Kovath decisively tracking G4slight, and all citizens for doing their part during the day to pin down the scum. Go team! :)

I also have to give it to G4slight for not giving up even when Banana was insisting that victory was impossible. I think that persistence is a terrific personal trait to possess. :)


Constructive feedback here, what do you feel would benefit the game in the long run?
Any buffs or nerfs?

This is the shortest RLVG setup lol. Day 1 with Lynch Option was solely based on an agreement that my next setup would not include a Day 1 No Lynch after some roasting. :cheesy:
Why did you have an agreement to not have a D1 no lynch?

I thought the setup was fine; it's nice for town to have 1 mislynch possible instead of being put immediately into LYLO.


Oh yeah, on another note about the callout that I would never put two doctors in such a setup.

... I would if it was randomized that way actually. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I was actually considering the possibility of two doctors. I could claim attacked and healed and one doctor claims "I am doc and I didn't heal Whad!" and votes me. And considering the host, I know that's not outside the realm of possibility :P

Anyway I had a lot of fun and hope to play more games with all of you :)

[DarknessB]

Honestly, there's far more dignity in gracefully conceding an unwinnable position vs. stubbornly holding out and delaying the inevitable. We've all been on the wrong side of crappy games -- better to accept defeat and try to do better the next time. Just not sure what you really gain other than wasting everyone's time. Persistence is great in many respects, but there's a difference between when you have a real shot and when you're literally just waiting for someone to hammer you in a more or less mechanically solved game.

[Quick]

Holy hell, town wins in freaking 10 pages. That is quite an impressive town.

[DarknessB]

Holy hell, town wins in freaking 10 pages. That is quite an impressive town.

Combination of factors -- the setup was very small, simple / easily solvable, and the Town was loaded with pros while the Mafia team were relatively green. More a warning sign against randoming just one set of player role and going with that vs. anything else, IMO.

[BananaCucho]

Combination of factors -- the setup was very small, simple / easily solvable, and the Town was loaded with pros while the Mafia team were relatively green. More a warning sign against randoming just one set of player role and going with that vs. anything else, IMO.

You keep saying this but if the scum team always has one experienced + one newbie for example, host meta becomes even more of a thing. I hate host meta as an argument.

[Quick]

You keep saying this but if the scum team always has one experienced + one newbie for example, host meta becomes even more of a thing. I hate host meta as an argument.

This is much disappoint if it is true. Roles you assign to people should be totally random if that's what told everyone in your setup thread.

[DarknessB]

You keep saying this but if the scum team always has one experienced + one newbie for example, host meta becomes even more of a thing. I hate host meta as an argument.

Sure, I'm not a fan myself, but at least let's not have all the sharks be on one side and all of the newbies be on the other. Also less of a problem if there are three Mafia (or neutrals or anything but just Town and Mafia) or if the host randoms three times and then picks the best of those setups. I think many of us would rather deal with a little host meta than curbstomp games where the roll has been one-sided, which seem to happen too often.

[Firebringer]

Now that the game is over, I can admit that RLVG sent me your role card:

You are the Host!

Names / Roles
1. FireBringer, Framer
2. Ika, Citizen
3. RLVG, Godfather
4. StealthBomber16, Citizen
5. Bananacucho, Serial Killer
6. Mattzed, Agent
7. PowerofDeath, Doctor
8. Orpz, Vigilante
9. Hypersniper, Investigator
10. Lolunic0rn, Escort
11. Fatalis, Citizen
12. Dagaen, Bus Driver
GG

SO thats where the role list went.

[DarknessB]

This is much disappoint if it is true. Roles you assign to people should be totally random if that's what told everyone in your setup thread.

There was an entire giant thread about this -- if you go truly random, you end up with wipe out games like this.

[Quick]

Sure, I'm not a fan myself, but at least let's not have all the sharks be on one side and all of the newbies be on the other. Also less of a problem if there are three Mafia or if the host randoms three times and then picks the best of those setups. I think many of us would rather deal with a little host meta than curbstomp games where the roll has been one-sided, which seem to happen too often.

Games average out overall if you just rand once.. and it will be a learning experience if the newbs get owned which will increase the ability of the whole site. Increase the newbs and the vets get better too.

[BananaCucho]

This is much disappoint if it is true. Roles you assign to people should be totally random if that's what told everyone in your setup thread.

Lol you're taking Fire's ethical stance

I don't think you should have to tell people what to expect. I have randomed my rolelists once or twice even though I usually handpick to throw people off. Fuck trying to meta me as the host.

[Firebringer]

There was an entire giant thread about this -- if you go truly random, you end up with wipe out games like this.

That was more about randoming roles, not who gets what alignments.
It is never said that alignments are randomized, but usually assumed so by most players.
On this side it can or cannot be true given the host.

For instance, I always random alignments, and am usually disapointed by it.
For instance Suntax getting Professor Zoom >.>

[DarknessB]

Games average out overall if you just rand once.. and it will be a learning experience if the newbs get owned which will increase the ability of the whole site. Increase the newbs and the vets get better too.

This is completely incorrect from the experiences on this site in the wipeout games. And in fact, many of the newbies were so demoralized from being wiped out so decisively, that they didn't come back. Vets aren't improved by being stacked up on one team and cruising to victory. We've had enough of these games to know that they are not working.

[DarknessB]

Lol you're taking Fire's ethical stance

I don't think you should have to tell people what to expect. I have randomed my rolelists once or twice even though I usually handpick to throw people off. Fuck trying to meta me as the host.

Heh, that's what I was alluding too as well. :)

[Quick]

This is completely incorrect from the experiences on this site in the wipeout games. And in fact, many of the newbies were so demoralized from being wiped out so decisively, that they didn't come back. Vets aren't improved by being stacked up on one team and cruising to victory. We've had enough of these games to know that they are not working.

Well sure then why rand at all? I mean if you're just going to pick the roles it defeats the whole purpose.

[Firebringer]

Lol you're taking Fire's ethical stance

I don't think you should have to tell people what to expect. I have ransomed my rolelists once or twice even though I usually handpick to throw people off. Fuck trying to meta me as the host.

Part of being ethical in this situation is not lying to your playerlist, and I am fine with omission of details because sometimes players don't need to know anything, if a role list says a role is randomized that has expectations.

But I have given up most of this debate. Unless hosts outright lie to you, I don't mind it.

[DarknessB]

Well sure then why rand at all? I mean if you're just going to pick the roles it defeats the whole purpose.

Because then you really go down the rabbithole of host WIFOM. Three random is what most of us consider to be the ideal compromise. You get some randomness but not enough that you're stuck with vets vs. noobs. Most of the egregiously one-sided games in recent history have been the result of one random.

[BananaCucho]

I am going to make a rule in my future games that if you host meta me you get modkilled :)

[DarknessB]

Part of being ethical in this situation is not lying to your playerlist, and I am fine with omission of details because sometimes players don't need to know anything, if a role list says a role is randomized that has expectations.

But I have given up most of this debate. Unless hosts outright lie to you, I don't mind it.

Stealthbomber told me that Glitch was going to be fun -- biggest lie ever.

[BananaCucho]

Because then you really go down the rabbithole of host WIFOM. Three random is what most of us consider to be the ideal compromise. You get some randomness but not enough that you're stuck with vets vs. noobs. Most of the egregiously one-sided games in recent history have been the result of one random.

Lynch Fetish had 1 vet and 1 newb and was a town stomp :)

[BananaCucho]

Stealthbomber told me that Glitch was going to be fun -- biggest lie ever.

Someone is still salty they got rekt

[DarknessB]

I am going to make a rule in my future games that if you host meta me you get modkilled :)

Sure, you can also get rid of host meta by not disclosing whether it's going to be completely handpicked, one random, three random, some handpicked and some random, or whether you just change it every game. Just don't go with a crappy setup where it's all the sharks vs. all the minnows.

[Quick]

Because then you really go down the rabbithole of host WIFOM. Three random is what most of us consider to be the ideal compromise. You get some randomness but not enough that you're stuck with vets vs. noobs. Most of the egregiously one-sided games in recent history have been the result of one random.

But this games is based on its randomness and the best team winning. This is not really a "lets all win" game. It can be very brutal, it is the nature of the game, like lord of the flies. I say this as someone who doesn't usually get too emotional, but being tunneled so hard I literally broke down in tears. I have just accepted that this is the way the game is.

[DarknessB]

Someone is still salty they got rekt

Damn straight -- that game was about as balanced as Illuminati 2.0, not to mention the host lynches.

[Calix]

I love how this got derailed into a pointless host meta argument.

Instead of whining over town-stomp games, why not point out how the scum team could have improved? That's clearly more useful to the players, no?

[DarknessB]

But this games is based on its randomness and the best team winning. This is not really a "lets all win" game. It can be very brutal, it is the nature of the game, like lord of the flies. I say this as someone who doesn't usually get too emotional, but being tunneled so hard I literally broke down in tears. I have just accepted that this is the way the game is.

The game is what people decide to make of it. In fact, another heated discussion has revolved around RNG elements in games -- i.e. Jester random kills vs. selected or items randomly given to players (FF7). Many of us hate them because they make the game less about strategy and more about the host's dice roll. The game is about the best team winning, but it's hardly a fair competition when one team has multiple ladder winners / top three finishers and the other has a player who hasn't survived past Night 1 ever.

[DarknessB]

I love how this got derailed into a pointless host meta argument.

Instead of whining over town-stomp games, why not point out how the scum team could have improved? That's clearly more useful to the players, no?

Whining is more fun and many players don't listen to constructive criticism.

[Quick]

The game is what people decide to make of it. In fact, another heated discussion has revolved around RNG elements in games -- i.e. Jester random kills vs. selected or items randomly given to players (FF7). Many of us hate them because they make the game less about strategy and more about the host's dice roll. The game is about the best team winning, but it's hardly a fair competition when one team has multiple ladder winners / top three finishers and the other has a player who hasn't survived past Night 1 ever.

I won't derail this thread further. I simply think random should actually mean random.

[Calix]

I'm going to blatantly justify my laziness by claiming that the players are just too stubborn to ever improve.

FTFY

[DarknessB]

I won't derail this thread further. I simply think random should actually mean random.

You really are Firebringer 2.0, aren't you? You must have been heartbroken to find out that Santa Claus wasn't real, to quote Crypt from that infamous thread.

[BananaCucho]

I love how this got derailed into a pointless host meta argument.

Instead of whining over town-stomp games, why not point out how the scum team could have improved? That's clearly more useful to the players, no?

I'm happy with how this game ended. Town stomp was due to good play by the town, nothing more.

[DarknessB]

FTFY

LOL, feel free to start that discussion about how the scum team could have improved then.

[Firebringer]

I love how this got derailed into a pointless host meta argument.

Instead of whining over town-stomp games, why not point out how the scum team could have improved? That's clearly more useful to the players, no?

I will bring us back on topic.
Okay, this was an amazing town stomp.

HEY SCUM, YOU SUCK.
L2P YOU NOOBS

[Quick]

You really are Firebringer 2.0, aren't you? You must have been heartbroken to find out that Santa Claus wasn't real, to quote Crypt from that infamous thread.

I wouldn't go that far, But I do respect him.

[Quick]

I will bring us back on topic.
Okay, this was an amazing town stomp.

HEY SCUM, YOU SUCK.
L2P YOU NOOBS

LMAO.

[DarknessB]

I'm happy with how this game ended. Town stomp was due to good play by the town, nothing more.

Yes, the Town that was overloaded with very strong players relative to the weak scum team -- thank you for proving my point, lol. This was reverse FF7.

[Calix]

I'm not sure why this debate is always so controversial. There's no foolproof way for the host to avoid town/scum-stomp games. Mafia's a probabilistic game; they will inevitably happen.

This game is just exceptionally notable by how coordinated the town was. Literally could not have had a better outcome than this.

[DarknessB]

I will bring us back on topic.
Okay, this was an amazing town stomp.

HEY SCUM, YOU SUCK.
L2P YOU NOOBS

If only I could rep in this thread...

[DarknessB]

I'm not sure why this debate is always so controversial. There's no foolproof way for the host to avoid town/scum-stomp games. Mafia's a probabilistic game; they will inevitably happen.

This game is just exceptionally notable by how coordinated the town was. Literally could not have had a better outcome than this.

Don't put all of the S-FM Ladder winners on one team and a guy who hasn't survived out of Night 1 on the other team. Three randoming solves this.

[Calix]

In my opinion, Gaslight was far too reactionary. He only responded to posts that involved him and showed little initiative. After the Banana/ Calix thing blew over, he didn't comment on anything else or give reads or explain his thought processes in any meaningful way; this is a scum tell because it shows he has little interest in hunting for the scum. (because he already knows them)

I feel like my posts on Goatse already cover the flaws in his play this game, but if he has any queries, I am happy to help.

[Quick]

Don't put all of the S-FM Ladder winners on one team and a guy who hasn't survived out of Night 1 on the other team. Three randoming solves this.

I'd be pretty happy if I was always killed N1 TBPH.

[BananaCucho]

I'm not sure why this debate is always so controversial. There's no foolproof way for the host to avoid town/scum-stomp games. Mafia's a probabilistic game; they will inevitably happen.

This game is just exceptionally notable by how coordinated the town was. Literally could not have had a better outcome than this.

Agreed. A game doesn't have to last forever to be a good gsme, and if one team outplays another and finishes quickly, great!

Look at the last M-FM. Lasted forever and was awful.

[Quick]

In my opinion, Gaslight was far too reactionary. He only responded to posts that involved him and showed little initiative. After the Banana/ Calix thing blew over, he didn't comment on anything else or give reads or explain his thought processes in any meaningful way; this is a scum tell because it shows he has little interest in hunting for the scum. (because he already knows them)

I feel like my posts on Goatse already cover the flaws in his play this game, but if he has any queries, I am happy to help.

Hey feel free to give me advice anytime God knows I need it..

[Calix]

I'd be pretty happy if I was always killed N1 TBPH.

Be careful what you wish for.

- A player that has been killed on N1 9 times.

[DarknessB]

Agreed. A game doesn't have to last forever to be a good gsme, and if one team outplays another and finishes quickly, great!

Look at the last M-FM. Lasted forever and was awful.

A game that ends within like 10 pages isn't typically most people's idea of a good game. Doesn't have to be forever, but this was insanely quick due to the obvious scum collapsing. This was more like the Harlem Globetrotters vs. the Washington Generals.

[Calix]

Hey feel free to give me advice anytime God knows I need it..

I've yet to see you play, so it depends on what you want help with :p

[Quick]

Be careful what you wish for.

- A player that has been killed on N1 9 times.

I've only been killed N1 once I think. Because I'm not that great at this game as town, simple as that.

[DarknessB]

Be careful what you wish for.

- A player that has been killed on N1 9 times.

Strong play gets you killed. If you want to avoid being night killed, then start playing like crap, lol.

[DarknessB]

I've only been killed N1 once I think. Because I'm not that great at this game as town, simple as that.

Exactly -- this is pretty much why Gyrlander lived forever in FF7 despite being the revealed Mayor. Scum don't want to kill underperforming Town -- that's just common sense.