S-FM 194: Return to Normalcy Mini

[powerofdeath]

1. Iced_Monopoly
2. AIVION
3. Mesk514
4. Yukitaka Oni
5. Unknown1234
6. Whad
7. Calix
8. DarknessB
9. Firebringer

Day ends in 48 hours from now!
There is no investigator role in this set up. My apologizes to everybody.

5

link to set up: http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/35469-Return-To-Normalcy-Mini

Link to Night1/Day 2: http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/36501-S-FM-194-Return-to-Normalcy-Mini?p=596650&viewfull=1#post596650

[Calix]

You heard the Host. Lynch him! :)

DarknessB

[Iced_Monopoly]

Its going to come up at some point in this game anyways, so might as well get it over with now. Policy lynch on Yukitaka Oni. Now we can focus on the game

[Calix]

Its going to come up at some point in this game anyways, so might as well get it over with now. Policy lynch on Yukitaka Oni. Now we can focus on the game

I see someone is focused on the Cold War series. Why settle for a policy lynch this early on when that reduces pressure from everyone else?

Any thoughts on this ""normal"" setup?

[Unknown1234]

Firebringer

It had to be done.

[Iced_Monopoly]

Focused on every game ive played with yuki actually, but its more of a joke than a serious vote. As for the setup its the most similar to a mod game for what ive played on the forums, so we could be rather screwed if there are 2 night killing roles with such a low population count. The removal of the investigatives too will make this slightly harder for town, so assuming we have jailor or escort, a lot of our power is going to come from them for lead development.

[DarknessB]

Welcome to the show, rook.

Unknown1234

[DarknessB]

Focused on every game ive played with yuki actually, but its more of a joke than a serious vote. As for the setup its the most similar to a mod game for what ive played on the forums, so we could be rather screwed if there are 2 night killing roles with such a low population count. The removal of the investigatives too will make this slightly harder for town, so assuming we have jailor or escort, a lot of our power is going to come from them for lead development.

Removal of what investigatives? Sheriff is listed as one of the possible Town roles, as are Detective and Lookout.

[Calix]

Focused on every game ive played with yuki actually, but its more of a joke than a serious vote. As for the setup its the most similar to a mod game for what ive played on the forums, so we could be rather screwed if there are 2 night killing roles with such a low population count. The removal of the investigatives too will make this slightly harder for town, so assuming we have jailor or escort, a lot of our power is going to come from them for lead development.

I would really hope that there isn't anything like a Serial Killer/ Arsonist/ Mass Murderer (ew) for our Neutral, otherwise we'd need 2 Protectives to balance it out. For now, I am assuming Executioner/ Jester, similar to S-FM Standard.

He only removed Investigator (which is a crappy role anyway compared to Sheriff, Lookout, etc) so I don't think that will hurt us at all as it's clear he wasn't going to use it.

[DarknessB]

I would really hope that there isn't anything like a Serial Killer/ Arsonist/ Mass Murderer (ew) for our Neutral, otherwise we'd need 2 Protectives to balance it out. For now, I am assuming Executioner/ Jester, similar to S-FM Standard.

He only removed Investigator (which is a crappy role anyway compared to Sheriff, Lookout, etc) so I don't think that will hurt us at all as it's clear he wasn't going to use it.

Investigators are pretty rare in FMs anyway. Most of the time, they would give exact roles instead of the crime nonsense from the mod. This doesn't register to me either way honestly.

[Iced_Monopoly]

My advice to citizens is to be as active as possible, the power of voting is the strongest, and if you can pass yourself off with a TPR vibe and take a night hit for a real TPR thats even better. I for one also welcome policy lynching lurkers, so dont be one of those or you'll have my vote.

[Iced_Monopoly]

Ah my bad, I misread as investigative and assumed all were off the table which is why I was so confused

[DarknessB]

My advice to citizens is to be as active as possible, the power of voting is the strongest, and if you can pass yourself off with a TPR vibe and take a night hit for a real TPR thats even better. I for one also welcome policy lynching lurkers, so dont be one of those or you'll have my vote.

Why are you explaining how to play the game in your posts? I feel like you are trying to get town credibility by stating the obvious.

[Iced_Monopoly]

Why are you explaining how to play the game in your posts? I feel like you are trying to get town credibility by stating the obvious.

There are a few new players and names I dont recognise, and in past games ive seen players potato purely because theyre citizen. Also making my stance on lurkers known early

[DarknessB]

Policy lynching should be a LAST resort. If someone doesn't meet the posting threshold, then that can be raised with the host in a PM and then the host should replace them -- it's far more of a game administration issue and will detract from scumhunting. In the first instance, we should not be wasting time lynching those who are not even around to defend themselves.

[Calix]

There are a few new players and names I dont recognise, and in past games ive seen players potato purely because theyre citizen. Also making my stance on lurkers known early

Let's move away from the banal, shall we?

Initial impressions of DarknessB and myself, please.

[Iced_Monopoly]

Policy lynching should be a LAST resort. If someone doesn't meet the posting threshold, then that can be raised with the host in a PM and then the host should replace them -- it's far more of a game administration issue and will detract from scumhunting. In the first instance, we should not be wasting time lynching those who are not even around to defend themselves.

My comment was of lurkers, those that are viewing and not contributing during critical times, or actively avoiding discussion, but posting enough to not warrant a replacement.

[Calix]

My comment was of lurkers, those that are viewing and not contributing during critical times, or actively avoiding discussion, but posting enough to not warrant a replacement.

Stating the definition of a lurker.

Hm, I don't recall Iced being this bad at scum. Potential Neutral in the arena.

[DarknessB]

Stating the definition of a lurker.

Hm, I don't recall Iced being this bad at scum. Potential Neutral in the arena.

I feel like he is playing to his audience -- i.e. he realizes there are a bunch of newer players in this game and he's attempting to be helpful and tutorial-like in order to curry their favor early.

[Calix]

I feel like he is playing to his audience -- i.e. he realizes there are a bunch of newer players in this game and he's attempting to be helpful and tutorial-like in order to curry their favor early.

Possible, but it's generally better to do it as we go along. AKA, if a specific player in this game lurks, then he could point it out later.

[DarknessB]

Possible, but it's generally better to do it as we go along. AKA, if a specific player in this game lurks, then he could point it out later.

Oh, I am not arguing that it's a smart play by any means. Given we're literally 20 posts into the game, it seems very odd to reference lurkers already. I'm sure there will be plenty of time to have this discussion when we see who is contributing and who isn't. Just seems overly premature to me.

[Iced_Monopoly]

Let's move away from the banal, shall we?

Initial impressions of DarknessB and myself, please.

With such a small number of posts to go by, theres little to say, Darkness' play is sceptical but active, so whilst I have no indication of his role or alignment, his continued discussion is a positive.

As for yourself Calix, your thoughts on possible neut setups mirror my own, its interesting that you didnt follow a similar line of questioning as darkness towards myself though, you appear to be playing rather neutrally so far, which in comparrison to the games ive played in the past or followed of yours, is a little odd, but maybe thats just because its still first page..

[AIVION]

So this started! Yay!

Hope we're all having a lovely day!

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2014-11/27/1/enhanced/webdr03/enhanced-19861-1417070544-8.jpg

This should be fun since it has similar roles to the Mod that i love so much! :)

[Calix]

With such a small number of posts to go by, theres little to say, Darkness' play is sceptical but active, so whilst I have no indication of his role or alignment, his continued discussion is a positive.

As for yourself Calix, your thoughts on possible neut setups mirror my own, its interesting that you didnt follow a similar line of questioning as darkness towards myself though, you appear to be playing rather neutrally so far, which in comparrison to the games ive played in the past or followed of yours, is a little odd, but maybe thats just because its still first page..

DarknessB is actually making an effort and trying to scum-hunt. Given it's just been us three, can't get TOO much done, but I think he is town so far because of TEH META. So if I'm correct there, only 4 more to go and it's GG.

Funnily enough, I find your attempts at tutoring the scrubs to be in line with Neutral play. Very conservative and easy to do as any alignment, that's for sure.

I am going to bed soon and would like to set up the groundwork for when I get back. But for aforementioned reasons, that is hard to do.

[AIVION]

Any thoughts on this ""normal"" setup?

I has thoughts yes, and If this was the mod the game would look like this!

Any Random
Any Random
Any Random
Any Random
Any Random
Any Random
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Random Neutral

Any Random = Exclude Triad,Mafia,Neutral.

So in other words this is gonna be pretty interesting! I agree with what Calix said though about The Neutral being a Neutral Killer... That wouldn't be fun. But if we have enough protections/Investigatives It could counteract this aspect though. But it also leaves room for unbalanced situations too.

[DarknessB]

I has thoughts yes, and If this was the mod the game would look like this!

Any Random
Any Random
Any Random
Any Random
Any Random
Any Random
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Random Neutral

Any Random = Exclude Triad,Mafia,Neutral.

So in other words this is gonna be pretty interesting! I agree with what Calix said though about The Neutral being a Neutral Killer... That wouldn't be fun. But if we have enough protections/Investigatives It could counteract this aspect though. But it also leaves room for unbalanced situations too.

I understand the relationship to the mod and how this game might be set up using it, but I'm not sure how the comparison helps us here in any way? We should focus on the game that we're playing not on the mod, which we are not here.

[Calix]

I has thoughts yes, and If this was the mod the game would look like this!

Any Random
Any Random
Any Random
Any Random
Any Random
Any Random
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Random Neutral

Any Random = Exclude Triad,Mafia,Neutral.

So in other words this is gonna be pretty interesting! I agree with what Calix said though about The Neutral being a Neutral Killer... That wouldn't be fun. But if we have enough protections/Investigatives It could counteract this aspect though. But it also leaves room for unbalanced situations too.

- Off-topic comment about the mod, complete with a 'role list' to inflate the post
- Rest of the post is fluffy bullshit that adds nothing new to the discussion
- Avoids comments on the players

AIVION

[AIVION]

- Off-topic comment about the mod, complete with a 'role list' to inflate the post
- Rest of the post is fluffy bullshit that adds nothing new to the discussion
- Avoids comments on the players

AIVION

:(

Ask me questions and I will contribute. You have to remember this is what... barely my third game On Forum Mafia?

[Calix]

:(

Ask me questions and I will contribute. You have to remember this is what... barely my third game On Forum Mafia?

Nah love, that's not how it works. YOU reach out to the town; you don't wait for town to reach out TO you. Comment on the players posting. We're in a 9-player game and we have 4 people currently active. Get cracking, ya nub.

Why are you suddenly pulling the newb card? You've never felt the need to do that under pressure.

[DarknessB]

:(

Ask me questions and I will contribute. You have to remember this is what... barely my third game On Forum Mafia?

We've gone over this before ad nauseum -- it's not other peoples' responsibility to prod you to contribute. You should want to be scumhunting BY YOURSELF and on your own. Seriously man -- I feel like I have to start the same place with you every single game, lol.

[AIVION]

Nah love, that's not how it works. YOU reach out to the town; you don't wait for town to reach out TO you. Comment on the players posting. We're in a 9-player game and we have 4 people currently active. Get cracking, ya nub.

Why are you suddenly pulling the newb card? You've never felt the need to do that under pressure.

Because I'm slowly realizing im pretty dumb when it comes to forum mafia... I mean my last couple games were complete failures and no matter what people tell me on how to act and play I seem to always sounds either 1.) Stupid or 2.) Scummy out of it.

So i'm just trying to find my voice... but uh Okay I guess I'll reach out then..

- I liked your comment on the neutrals, I stated that and added that there's a possibility of it being Balanced depending on what is rolled. But since this is ALL RANDOM we have no idea what to expect.
- I liked Iced Analysis on the both of you, it shows he's trying to understand the players around him so he can better contribute.
- Iced comment on how to play citizens and policy lynching lurkers seems a bit redundant... And weird for page 1.

Yay! I did stuff I think.

[AIVION]

We've gone over this before ad nauseum -- it's not other peoples' responsibility to prod you to contribute. You should want to be scumhunting BY YOURSELF and on your own. Seriously man -- I feel like I have to start the same place with you every single game, lol.

You do, because I'm a slow learner :)

IM GETTING THERE THOUGH!

[Firebringer]

I went out to play tennis and this game started. My friend kicked my ass. Man been like 2 months since I last played ;(

Anyways:
DarknessB

Cause you know, he is scum.

[Iced_Monopoly]

So we've already had yuki come to the game and check things out, and he hasnt commented, not even a (>o.o)> in regards to my vote on him.

Anyways welcome Aivion, have you played any games with Calix before? If so do you believe she is currently being more impartial and less invasive than usual?

[Firebringer]

- Off-topic comment about the mod, complete with a 'role list' to inflate the post
- Rest of the post is fluffy bullshit that adds nothing new to the discussion
- Avoids comments on the players

AIVION

Town Calix trying to nitpick someones post to death and get their reaction.

[Unknown1234]

Nah love, that's not how it works. YOU reach out to the town; you don't wait for town to reach out TO you. Comment on the players posting. We're in a 9-player game and we have 4 people currently active. Get cracking, ya nub.

Why are you suddenly pulling the newb card? You've never felt the need to do that under pressure.

He's probably trying to relate to us, because we are the noobs here. I won't be pulling that card though, you won't even notice a difference.

[AIVION]

So we've already had yuki come to the game and check things out, and he hasnt commented, not even a (>o.o)> in regards to my vote on him.

Anyways welcome Aivion, have you played any games with Calix before? If so do you believe she is currently being more impartial and less invasive than usual?

Thank you, at least someone gave me a warm welcome xD

also because I forgot to: FireBringer BRING ON THE FIRE!

And yes, I have played with her a couple games with her and well she's basically what I remembered. Asks people their take on the setup (apparently she voted me for my setup spec post.)
As for impartial and less invasive.. You'd have to explain what you mean?

[Calix]

Because I'm slowly realizing im pretty dumb when it comes to forum mafia... I mean my last couple games were complete failures and no matter what people tell me on how to act and play I seem to always sounds either 1.) Stupid or 2.) Scummy out of it.

So i'm just trying to find my voice... but uh Okay I guess I'll reach out then..

- I liked your comment on the neutrals, I stated that and added that there's a possibility of it being Balanced depending on what is rolled. But since this is ALL RANDOM we have no idea what to expect.
- I liked Iced Analysis on the both of you, it shows he's trying to understand the players around him so he can better contribute.
- Iced comment on how to play citizens and policy lynching lurkers seems a bit redundant... And weird for page 1.

Yay! I did stuff I think.

Stop moping and start playing. Newsflash: Nobody ACTUALLY cares if you fuck up as long as you don't fuck up the same way twice.

Most of your comments are still based around the setup. Why do you talk about it being ALL RANDOM when we know how many town, mafia, neutrals there are?

My vote stays for now.

[DarknessB]

Because I'm slowly realizing im pretty dumb when it comes to forum mafia... I mean my last couple games were complete failures and no matter what people tell me on how to act and play I seem to always sounds either 1.) Stupid or 2.) Scummy out of it.

So i'm just trying to find my voice... but uh Okay I guess I'll reach out then..

- I liked your comment on the neutrals, I stated that and added that there's a possibility of it being Balanced depending on what is rolled. But since this is ALL RANDOM we have no idea what to expect.
- I liked Iced Analysis on the both of you, it shows he's trying to understand the players around him so he can better contribute.
- Iced comment on how to play citizens and policy lynching lurkers seems a bit redundant... And weird for page 1.

Yay! I did stuff I think.

The setup is all randoms within each faction, but we can assume / hope that POD attempted to make the game reasonably balanced? So we should have a mix of Citizens and different TPRs from different categories. That having been said, POD has been known to tilt a setup to see how players will react to it. For example, one of the Mystery Box games was entirely Citizens and Mafiosos for purposes of seeing how people would scumhunt.

[Calix]

I went out to play tennis and this game started. My friend kicked my ass. Man been like 2 months since I last played ;(

Anyways:
DarknessB

Cause you know, he is scum.

Why do you think that?

[AIVION]

Stop moping and start playing. Newsflash: Nobody ACTUALLY cares if you fuck up as long as you don't fuck up the same way twice.

Most of your comments are still based around the setup. Why do you talk about it being ALL RANDOM when we know how many town, mafia, neutrals there are?

My vote stays for now.

I mean the roles... I guess that sort of went over your head lol.

That's fine :)

[Firebringer]

Thank you, at least someone gave me a warm welcome xD

also because I forgot to: FireBringer BRING ON THE FIRE!

And yes, I have played with her a couple games with her and well she's basically what I remembered. Asks people their take on the setup (apparently she voted me for my setup spec post.)
As for impartial and less invasive.. You'd have to explain what you mean?

I BRING THE FIRE EVERYDAY MATE

BRING YOUR A GAME!

[DarknessB]

He's probably trying to relate to us, because we are the noobs here. I won't be pulling that card though, you won't even notice a difference.

Honestly, if you've seen AIVION's other games, this is not atypical for how he plays. The frustrating thing is that he doesn't seem to improve upon this despite a couple of games under his belt.

[Calix]

So we've already had yuki come to the game and check things out, and he hasnt commented, not even a (>o.o)> in regards to my vote on him.

Anyways welcome Aivion, have you played any games with Calix before? If so do you believe she is currently being more impartial and less invasive than usual?

Loaded question.

Also lol at reading someone for checking out the thread and disappearing again. When has that been indicative of alignment?

[Firebringer]

Why do you think that?

The tone in his posts. Very scum!Darkness

[AIVION]

The setup is all randoms within each faction, but we can assume / hope that POD attempted to make the game reasonably balanced? So we should have a mix of Citizens and different TPRs from different categories. That having been said, POD has been known to tilt a setup to see how players will react to it. For example, one of the Mystery Box games was entirely Citizens and Mafiosos for purposes of seeing how people would scumhunt.

EXACTLY!

Brownie Points to DarknessB For seeing what I was getting at with my setup List. That was my greatest fear when I looked at the list.

[Iced_Monopoly]

- Iced comment on how to play citizens and policy lynching lurkers seems a bit redundant... And weird for page 1.

Yay! I did stuff I think.

To clear this up once and for all, atleast the lurker part, darkness presumably skimread my post and couldnt differentiate between lurker and people that are genuinely not online/here, so I continued the discussion by having to spell out the difference for him and who I was interested in targetting.

Nothing rustles my Jimmies like arguements/reads based on miscommunicated information

[Unknown1234]

Thank you, at least someone gave me a warm welcome xD

also because I forgot to: FireBringer BRING ON THE FIRE!

And yes, I have played with her a couple games with her and well she's basically what I remembered. Asks people their take on the setup (apparently she voted me for my setup spec post.)
As for impartial and less invasive.. You'd have to explain what you mean?

A couple games? Even though it's like, your third game? That doesn't go together

[AIVION]

I BRING THE FIRE EVERYDAY MATE

BRING YOUR A GAME!

YES SIR I WILL TRY SIR! :)

[Calix]

The tone in his posts. Very scum!Darkness

Can you pinpoint how? I have him as a slight town at the moment so this isn't baseless questioning.

[AIVION]

Honestly, if you've seen AIVION's other games, this is not atypical for how he plays. The frustrating thing is that he doesn't seem to improve upon this despite a couple of games under his belt.

Atypical for how I play..?

I think in one we played before I explained how I handle Day 1 so this sort of comes off as weird to me..?

[DarknessB]

The tone in his posts. Very scum!Darkness

FB, I get that it's the beginning of the game, but I would prefer this not devolve into shitposting and your usual brand of gut posts with no analysis. If you have an actual read on me, feel free to share it. "Tone" is not a terribly useful answer, lol.

[DarknessB]

FB, I get that it's the beginning of the game, but I would prefer this not devolve into shitposting and your usual brand of gut posts with no analysis. If you have an actual read on me, feel free to share it. "Tone" is not a terribly useful answer, lol.

Also, thank you for admitting that your vote was not RVS.

[Firebringer]

Can you pinpoint how? I have him as a slight town at the moment so this isn't baseless questioning.
Yeah, look at his posts. He is giving way more feelings than he does when he is town. Like town he would just be on the middle ground, he looks like he is making more opinions of people than straight up going "Well I don't know"

[Calix]

Also, thank you for admitting that your vote was not RVS.

Why would a vote where he says "because DB is scum" be RVS when it's clear that we're trying to move past that stage...?

[Firebringer]

FB, I get that it's the beginning of the game, but I would prefer this not devolve into shitposting and your usual brand of gut posts with no analysis. If you have an actual read on me, feel free to share it. "Tone" is not a terribly useful answer, lol.

See this? Town Darkness would just brush me off. You can tell he is annoyed by push on him. TownDarkness would be more likely to ignore this push since he would see it having no merit.

[Calix]

The fact that DarknessB doesn't consider AIVION's 'I'm new' schtick to be atypical is very strange.

[Unknown1234]

See this? Town Darkness would just brush me off. You can tell he is annoyed by push on him. TownDarkness would be more likely to ignore this push since he would see it having no merit.

When I read this post, it seems more like he is trying to make it better for the noobs, by eliminating/showing that all this shot posting doesn't help the game. I really hope that's not what your doing

[Firebringer]

I am like 80% sure Darkness is scum right now by the way he is setting himself up right now.

[Unknown1234]

FB, I get that it's the beginning of the game, but I would prefer this not devolve into shitposting and your usual brand of gut posts with no analysis. If you have an actual read on me, feel free to share it. "Tone" is not a terribly useful answer, lol.

Meant to quote this.

[DarknessB]

Yeah, look at his posts. He is giving way more feelings than he does when he is town. Like town he would just be on the middle ground, he looks like he is making more opinions of people than straight up going "Well I don't know"

Um, for the record -- I was scum in every single middle ground game you are referring to. Cop Out -- Spree Killer, Mafia Wars -- converted to FBI, PM 2.0 -- Jester, Thornholt's game -- Lady Death, and Matrix -- Mafioso. Thanks for proving my point, mate? Those games were all quite a long time ago. This is why meta is a fail.

[Calix]

Meant to quote this.

In general, Darkness dislikes 'bad play' and 'shit-posting' despite having a history for the latter :calix:

[Firebringer]

Why are you explaining how to play the game in your posts? I feel like you are trying to get town credibility by stating the obvious.

Darkness doesn't give opinions or hard feelings like this. This sounds way early in the game for darkness to do this.

[Iced_Monopoly]

So avoiding the debate that accompanies day 1 lynches, does having a potential 2nd or confirmed 2nd non town night killing role influence or alter the position on day 1 lynches? Or do you just continue to lynch because the odds of hitting scum are higher?

[DarknessB]

See this? Town Darkness would just brush me off. You can tell he is annoyed by push on him. TownDarkness would be more likely to ignore this push since he would see it having no merit.

Darkness doesn't ignore any posts that reference his name -- and more meta arguments. Sigh.

[AIVION]

Um, for the record -- I was scum in every single middle ground game you are referring to. Cop Out -- Spree Killer, Mafia Wars -- converted to FBI, PM 2.0 -- Jester, Thornholt's game -- Lady Death, and Matrix -- Mafioso. Thanks for proving my point, mate? Those games were all quite a long time ago. This is why meta is a fail.

Says the guy who's using Meta.

:)

[Calix]

So avoiding the debate that accompanies day 1 lynches, does having a potential 2nd or confirmed 2nd non town night killing role influence or alter the position on day 1 lynches? Or do you just continue to lynch because the odds of hitting scum are higher?

We lynch because they're the only town-controlled kills that we know exists.

[Firebringer]

Darkness doesn't ignore any posts that reference his name -- and more meta arguments. Sigh.

Okay, I won't use meta anymore.
Whats your read on me and Calix.

I will 100% stop quoting meta for the rest of the game on penalty of everyone auto lynching me.
Fair?

[DarknessB]

The fact that DarknessB doesn't consider AIVION's 'I'm new' schtick to be atypical is very strange.

I specifically mentioned that I found it strange and didn't like it. That was the entire post about lack of contribution in terms of the setup nonsense.

[Firebringer]

So avoiding the debate that accompanies day 1 lynches, does having a potential 2nd or confirmed 2nd non town night killing role influence or alter the position on day 1 lynches? Or do you just continue to lynch because the odds of hitting scum are higher?

Priorities: 1) Scum hunt 2) Setup Spec 3) Profit

[Calix]

We lynch because they're the only town-controlled kills that we know exists.

Before anyone goes "but Jailor", it is ridiculous to give up a chance at hitting scum...to allow a potential Kidnapper/ incompetent Jailor to lower our numbers.

[DarknessB]

Okay, I won't use meta anymore.
Whats your read on me and Calix.

I will 100% stop quoting meta for the rest of the game on penalty of everyone auto lynching me.
Fair?

You are doing your ridiculous Shreiff Jailor tunneling nonsense replete with tons of meta arguments. I would say more likely Town but misguided Town. Calix seems neutral so far -- she is calling things like she sees them, but she hasn't really gone out on a limb too much.

[Calix]

You are doing your ridiculous Shreiff Jailor tunneling nonsense replete with tons of meta arguments. I would say more likely Town but misguided Town. Calix seems neutral so far -- she is calling things like she sees them, but she hasn't really gone out on a limb too much.

What made you conveniently agree with Iced's read of me?

[Firebringer]

You are doing your ridiculous Shreiff Jailor tunneling nonsense replete with tons of meta arguments. I would say more likely Town but misguided Town. Calix seems neutral so far -- she is calling things like she sees them, but she hasn't really gone out on a limb too much.

This is you quoting meta.
If I am not doing meta, you can't do meta either.
What is the motivation in my posts, what am I doing.

You can't have it both ways. You can't be angry someone uses meta and then use meta yourself.

[Firebringer]

Honestly ignoring meta, Darkness frustration doesn't sense as town frustration.
It feels like something a scum would be more frustrated about to be honest.

I don't know sometimes its a subtle difference between the two.

[DarknessB]

Before anyone goes "but Jailor", it is ridiculous to give up a chance at hitting scum...to allow a potential Kidnapper/ incompetent Jailor to lower our numbers.

We don't even know if we have a Jailor -- sacrificing a lynch to depend on night action luck would be insane.

[DarknessB]

Honestly ignoring meta, Darkness frustration doesn't sense as town frustration.
It feels like something a scum would be more frustrated about to be honest.

I don't know sometimes its a subtle difference between the two.

I'm annoyed the same reason that Banana got annoyed with you. That you are literally pegging me as 80% scum (or more) like 75 posts in the game, and mostly based on meta of games that were like 6 months ago. If I were RandomScrubX, I would not have been on your radar at all.

[Firebringer]

We don't even know if we have a Jailor -- sacrificing a lynch to depend on night action luck would be insane.

Do you think if we have a jailor they should claim so we can give them a chance to prove themselves?

[DarknessB]

Do you think if we have a jailor they should claim so we can give them a chance to prove themselves?

No, I think having TPRs out themselves is a terrible idea.

[AIVION]

Do you think if we have a jailor they should claim so we can give them a chance to prove themselves?

No, because what if they are a Kidnapper and we're giving our full trust to a mafia Member...?

[DarknessB]

What made you conveniently agree with Iced's read of me?

Your style of asking questions of other players instead of giving a ton of substance on your own makes me feel like you are more interested in absorbing information rather than giving your thoughts.

[Firebringer]

I'm annoyed the same reason that Banana got annoyed with you. That you are literally pegging me as 80% scum (or more) like 75 posts in the game, and mostly based on meta of games that were like 6 months ago. If I were RandomScrubX, I would not have been on your radar at all.

OMG, I do not play favorites here. I found something odd about you, so I voted you. Stop turning this into some kind of fight. I am voting you, not attacking your personally.

[Firebringer]

No, because what if they are a Kidnapper and we're giving our full trust to a mafia Member...?

Well AIVION isn't scum.

[DarknessB]

OMG, I do not play favorites here. I found something odd about you, so I voted you. Stop turning this into some kind of fight. I am voting you, not attacking your personally.

The fact that anyone could be convinced that someone is 80% scum based on 80 posts of game is pretty astonishing man. It suggests a hardcore tunnel rather than deep thought into the game. Try analysis instead of gut reads please.

[DarknessB]

Well AIVION isn't scum.

(facepalm)

I am speechless at your gut reads. Literally speechless.

[DarknessB]

(facepalm)

I am speechless at your gut reads. Literally speechless.

I suck at remembering the emoji icons: :facepalm:

[Firebringer]

The fact that anyone could be convinced that someone is 80% scum based on 80 posts of game is pretty astonishing man. It suggests a hardcore tunnel rather than deep thought into the game. Try analysis instead of gut reads please.

Why are you discrediting my playstyle?

[Firebringer]

(facepalm)

I am speechless at your gut reads. Literally speechless.

So he is a scum read for you?

[Iced_Monopoly]

Do you think if we have a jailor they should claim so we can give them a chance to prove themselves?

Given the jailor role would probably become obsolete after day 1 (given town can lynch with more certainty than d1, and would likely not give a jailor another chance to jail) I would welcome a jailor d1 reveal, presumably theyd die n1 being a potential confirmed town, but it gives us a roleblocking role, and a potential confirmed town

[Calix]

Your style of asking questions of other players instead of giving a ton of substance on your own makes me feel like you are more interested in absorbing information rather than giving your thoughts.

You know full well that is a PLAYSTYLE which I adopt from time to time, making it NAI.

And what the fuck do you call my thoughts on AIVION, Iced and you then?


Well AIVION isn't scum.

What?

What if the scum team doesn't have a Kidnapper and they are vying for a mislynch? That comment doesn't reveal as much as you think it does.

[DarknessB]

Why are you discrediting my playstyle?

Because I don't think it works or is particularly pro-town for that matter. I feel like it's essentially rolling a dice on players and making your pushes based on that.

[Calix]

The fact that anyone could be convinced that someone is 80% scum based on 80 posts of game is pretty astonishing man. It suggests a hardcore tunnel rather than deep thought into the game. Try analysis instead of gut reads please.

You're too hung up over a random-ass number.

[Firebringer]

You know full well that is a PLAYSTYLE which I adopt from time to time, making it NAI.

And what the fuck do you call my thoughts on AIVION, Iced and you then?



What?

What if the scum team doesn't have a Kidnapper and they are vying for a mislynch? That comment doesn't reveal as much as you think it does.
Actually it means he is highly unlikely to be mafia. He could be a neutral though, so I guess your semi right.

[DarknessB]

So he is a scum read for you?

He's either a noobish Town or a nervous scum. It's too early for me to tell -- null read leaning scum for now.

[Firebringer]

He's either a noobish Town or a nervous scum. It's too early for me to tell -- null read leaning scum for now.

AIVION has played about 3-4 games now. You still consider him noob? Or you jsut saying he is playing like someone who is still inexperienced?

[DarknessB]

AIVION has played about 3-4 games now. You still consider him noob? Or you jsut saying he is playing like someone who is still inexperienced?

The latter.

[Calix]

He's either a noobish Town or a nervous scum. It's too early for me to tell -- null read leaning scum for now.

Feel free to post thoughts that haven't already been stated at any time, sweetie.

[DarknessB]

You're too hung up over a random-ass number.

The point was less about the number and more about how someone would have that strong of a read literally moments after a game started.

[Firebringer]

Reads:
Town
Calix
AIVION

Null
IcedMonopoly
Unknown
WHoever else I missed

Scum
DarknessB


This is where I am at right now.

Darkness if you are town, I would like less emotional posts from you. I feel like they are a bit manipulative in nature at this point.

[DarknessB]

Feel free to post thoughts that haven't already been stated at any time, sweetie.

Yes, because your posts telling other people to contribute are themselves contributing. Pretty sure that was my original point on AIVION as well.

[Calix]

The point was less about the number and more about how someone would have that strong of a read literally moments after a game started.

It was one of Firebringer's hyperbolic statements. Hardly something to make a big deal over.

[Iced_Monopoly]

This arguement is starting to get rather centralised, Fire, what are your reads on the remaining active players and darkness' interactions with them

[Firebringer]

Okay Darkness is actually town.
I think I fucked up.

[Calix]

Yes, because your posts telling other people to contribute are themselves contributing. Pretty sure that was my original point on AIVION as well.

You've yet to respond to my point about the fact that I'VE CONTRIBUTED MORE THAN THAT.

Nice misrep, love.

[Firebringer]

Yes, because your posts telling other people to contribute are themselves contributing. Pretty sure that was my original point on AIVION as well.

AngerTown post. Scum have no reason to angry lash out at Calix like this.

[DarknessB]

It was one of Firebringer's hyperbolic statements. Hardly something to make a big deal over.

Isn't this itself meta though? If he wants to make a statement like that, he should stand behind it. You seem like you're being a bit defensive of his gut read strategy.

[Iced_Monopoly]

Okay Darkness is actually town.
I think I fucked up.



What changed your mind?

[DarknessB]

You've yet to respond to my point about the fact that I'VE CONTRIBUTED MORE THAN THAT.

Nice misrep, love.

And, you're getting caught up debating semantics with me rather than engaging with any other player. You've questioned some other players more than given reads on them. This is NAI for you.

[Calix]

Isn't this itself meta though? If he wants to make a statement like that, he should stand behind it. You seem like you're being a bit defensive of his gut read strategy.

I'm stating the obvious. Nobody would take anyone to heart on a "80% scum-read" and blow it up like you did.

He gave reasoning for scum-reading you, not sure what you mean by 'standing behind it'?

[Firebringer]

Unknown1234

Yeah, Darkness attitude is something I expect of town. Scum anger is still focused on manipulation, his is obviously not.

[Iced_Monopoly]

My posts are seriously delayed, will be home soon, I apologize for asking questions after theybe already been answered..

[Calix]

And, you're getting caught up debating semantics with me rather than engaging with any other player. You've questioned some other players more than given reads on them. This is NAI for you.

What semantics?

I've given reads on almost everyone save for Firebringer, who seems like a derpy town at the moment. Stop ignoring those and acting like I've done nothing useful.

[Firebringer]

I have too many town reads.
The scum aren't posting enough then.

[DarknessB]

I'm stating the obvious. Nobody would take anyone to heart on a "80% scum-read" and blow it up like you did.

He gave reasoning for scum-reading you, not sure what you mean by 'standing behind it'?

You flip out at players all the time for tunneling you for dumb reasons. We could go through a long list of names and games.

[Calix]

You flip out at players all the time for tunneling you for dumb reasons. We could go through a long list of names and games.

80% sure =/= tunneling, especially as we're not even 150 posts in. Way to exaggerate.

[Firebringer]

You flip out at players all the time for tunneling you for dumb reasons. We could go through a long list of names and games.

Darkness buddy. This is a game. You are my bro. Take a breather and come back. We love you.
Your town, I am sorry for pushing you but I thought some of your posts felt fishy, and I thought this push would give me more certainty about you.

Okay? Want to play some Sc2Mafia mod?

[DarknessB]

80% sure =/= tunneling, especially as we're not even 150 posts in. Way to exaggerate.

Glad to see that argument about number of posts is relevant when you cite it, but not when I do. What happened to logical Calix?

[Calix]

Darkness buddy. This is a game. You are my bro. Take a breather and come back. We love you.
Your town, I am sorry for pushing you but I thought some of your posts felt fishy, and I thought this push would give me more certainty about you.

Okay? Want to play some Sc2Mafia mod?

Eww, never mind. I'm having flashbacks to that weird buddying post with FA in S-FM Decisions.

[Firebringer]

You two stop this TvT shit or I will cut someone tongue out.

[Firebringer]

Eww, never mind. I'm having flashbacks to that weird buddying post with FA in S-FM Decisions.

LOL.

[Calix]

Glad to see that argument about number of posts is relevant when you cite it, but not when I do. What happened to logical Calix?

First sentence doesn't make sense.

Second sentence is a clear baiting/ discrediting attempt.

[DarknessB]

Darkness buddy. This is a game. You are my bro. Take a breather and come back. We love you.
Your town, I am sorry for pushing you but I thought some of your posts felt fishy, and I thought this push would give me more certainty about you.

Okay? Want to play some Sc2Mafia mod?

Not a bad idea -- I'm going to take a breather. This is becoming a circlejerk between us three anyway, and there's not much value in that when many of the other players haven't even posted yet. For example, I see Yuki reading the thread, but we haven't heard anything from him yet.

[Iced_Monopoly]

General reads on Unknown?

So far he came in and voted fire, with little reasoning besides first post. Then defended aivon against darkness, then mildly interrogated one of aivions posts, then continued to defend, and has been absent since.

Hes hardly focused on anyone but the 2 aformentioned, and his discission is lacking, mostly just reitterating what the others said. Im not placing town at the moment

[Firebringer]

General reads on Unknown?

So far he came in and voted fire, with little reasoning besides first post. Then defended aivon against darkness, then mildly interrogated one of aivions posts, then continued to defend, and has been absent since.

Hes hardly focused on anyone but the 2 aformentioned, and his discission is lacking, mostly just reitterating what the others said. Im not placing town at the moment

He is null for me. Just defending some players points but not giving his own. So I want to hear his thoughts.

[Unknown1234]

General reads on Unknown?

So far he came in and voted fire, with little reasoning besides first post. Then defended aivon against darkness, then mildly interrogated one of aivions posts, then continued to defend, and has been absent since.

Hes hardly focused on anyone but the 2 aformentioned, and his discission is lacking, mostly just reitterating what the others said. Im not placing town at the moment

I'm sorry but I don't post three times every minute, I have to do stuff sometimes too. I never defended AIVON, sorry. And also my vote was unlike any of the other first votes, so why you feel the need to centre on mine is bizzarre

[Firebringer]

I just noticed how easy this is PoE once you have a few solid reads btw


Mesk514, Yukitaka Oni, Unknown1234, Iced Monopoly, and Whad

Lynch out of this pile. Out of this 5, 3 scum lie.
Just randoming one has like a 3/5 chance of hitting scum which is 60%.

That is if my hipshot reads are accurate, which I feel like they are.

[Calix]

General reads on Unknown?

So far he came in and voted fire, with little reasoning besides first post. Then defended aivon against darkness, then mildly interrogated one of aivions posts, then continued to defend, and has been absent since.

Hes hardly focused on anyone but the 2 aformentioned, and his discission is lacking, mostly just reitterating what the others said. Im not placing town at the moment

Doesn't seem to have a particularly coherent agenda, if any, behind his posts. He goes from criticising AIVION to defending him and his attitude towards DarknessB felt ambivalent to me.

[Firebringer]

Doesn't seem to have a particularly coherent agenda, if any, behind his posts. He goes from criticising AIVION to defending him and his attitude towards DarknessB felt ambivalent to me.

Why is your vote on my townread?

[Calix]

I'm sorry but I don't post three times every minute, I have to do stuff sometimes too. I never defended AIVON, sorry. And also my vote was unlike any of the other first votes, so why you feel the need to centre on mine is bizzarre

What were your intentions with #36 then, if not a justification of AIVION's actions?

[Unknown1234]

Reads:
Town
Calix
AIVION

Null
IcedMonopoly
Unknown
WHoever else I missed

Scum
DarknessB


This is where I am at right now.

Darkness if you are town, I would like less emotional posts from you. I feel like they are a bit manipulative in nature at this point.

Why do you town read AIVION? He has done nothing to contribute to the conversation other then say to say that he has only played three times, and then goes ahead and says that he has played with Calix to back up Your point of how she acts. In my opinion he's playing a Guilt trip and trying to suck up to everyone.

unvote

AIVION

[Calix]

Why is your vote on my townread?

Because I said so.

Congratulations on figuring out that POE will wreck the scum if we do it right. AIVION can derp as any alignment. I'd like to find out which one it is for (almost) certain. No mild town/ scum reads will be tolerated.

[Calix]

Unknown, you have to vote for AIVION. Posts only accept the first vote (so you don't need to unvote someone if you're going to vote another player)

[Unknown1234]

He's probably trying to relate to us, because we are the noobs here. I won't be pulling that card though, you won't even notice a difference.

When I say this, I am not meaning it as a town movement. What I meant was he is trying to make you feel pity for him, and in the long run understanding if he screws up about something.

[Firebringer]

Why do you town read AIVION? He has done nothing to contribute to the conversation other then say to say that he has only played three times, and then goes ahead and says that he has played with Calix to back up Your point of how she acts. In my opinion he's playing a Guilt trip and trying to suck up to everyone.

unvote

AIVION
Guilt tripping? What? How? Point out specfics pls


Because I said so.

Congratulations on figuring out that POE will wreck the scum if we do it right. AIVION can derp as any alignment. I'd like to find out which one it is for (almost) certain. No mild town/ scum reads will be tolerated.
Okay, you seem town enough right now. But AIVION isn't as derpy as you say he is. Like, I think you guys are shitting way too much on him. Its really not cool.

[Unknown1234]

Unknown, you have to vote for AIVION. Posts only accept the first vote (so you don't need to unvote someone if you're going to vote another player)

Sorry, never knew that.

[Calix]

Town enough? Ha.

How is AIVION not derpy? He tried telling you to paint Banana as scum...in the game thread. Beautiful moment there. I hope he repeats it.

[Firebringer]

Town enough? Ha.

How is AIVION not derpy? He tried telling you to paint Banana as scum...in the game thread. Beautiful moment there. I hope he repeats it.

Are you saying you play brilliantly every game? You want a fight, cause I will give you a fight. You pick on AIVION you are messing with me.

[Unknown1234]

:(

Ask me questions and I will contribute. You have to remember this is what... barely my third game On Forum Mafia?

This is what I consider a guilt trip. When I read this, the first thing that came to my mind was "he wants someone to pity him because it's only his third time". People will know if your new because they won't have seen you in any games before this.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Done, catch up

[Iced_Monopoly]

I'm sorry but I don't post three times every minute, I have to do stuff sometimes too. I never defended AIVON, sorry. And also my vote was unlike any of the other first votes, so why you feel the need to centre on mine is bizzarre

I wasnt asking you to post 3 times per minute, just to give more substance than reiterations of a select few other players posts. I also read you defending avion, as calix did too, did we misinterpret your point? Could you clear it up if that was the case. I also wasnt criticizing your first vote, i was just noting down all your actions/posts.

Your response is rather defensive in an aggressive manner, atleast as I read it, my read will remain as is till I see some more meaningful content.

[Calix]

Are you saying you play brilliantly every game? You want a fight, cause I will give you a fight. You pick on AIVION you are messing with me.

Yes, my play is on point. Flawless scum record and - unlike some failures in the thread - I've never fucked up a LYLO.

What the fuck has AIVION done to warrant this potential white-knighting? :fb:

[Unknown1234]

Says the guy who's using Meta.

:)

He is sticking with fire, trying to go against dark even though they were both using meta. Picking a side this early means you are trying to build up a small alliance hoping for enough people not to vote you if it comes down to is

[Firebringer]

This is what I consider a guilt trip. When I read this, the first thing that came to my mind was "he wants someone to pity him because it's only his third time". People will know if your new because they won't have seen you in any games before this.
I take it as null. Thats not indicative of anythign to me but that he informs you that he is still learning. Scared scum? Doubtful, read his comments about the possibility of Kidnapper, scum aren't going to post that. Leave hints about what roles they might or might not have.

[Firebringer]

Yes, my play is on point. Flawless scum record and - unlike some failures in the thread - I've never fucked up a LYLO.

What the fuck has AIVION done to warrant this potential white-knighting? :fb:

Calix

You misapplied white knighting.
White Knighting is when scum are protecting town.

This implies you see AIVION as town.
This is your "brilliant plays"?

[Yukitaka Oni]

Well. People talk too much, guess no one even bother reading me lel

[Calix]

I take it as null. Thats not indicative of anythign to me but that he informs you that he is still learning. Scared scum? Doubtful, read his comments about the possibility of Kidnapper, scum aren't going to post that. Leave hints about what roles they might or might not have.

Scum - especially inexperienced types - are more prone to talking about roles that they have in an attempt to seem useful...because they know the information they're providing isn't bullshit. I disagree with your last line due to this.

Don't think that's applicable with the Kidnapper, however.

[Calix]

Calix

You misapplied white knighting.
White Knighting is when scum are protecting town.

This implies you see AIVION as town.
This is your "brilliant plays"?

You can't read the word 'potential', almost as if I am considering other possibilities.

[Unknown1234]

No, because what if they are a Kidnapper and we're giving our full trust to a mafia Member...?

Is this the kidnapper comment you meant? I don't understand why a scum wouldn't say that, it's common knowledge, and a scum would say that to make us believe them. If there was no kidnapped, would there be ANY risk for a scum to say that since it isn't even possible?

[Firebringer]

You can't read the word 'potential', almost as if I am considering other possibilities.

Yeah, it reads like you don't actually read AIVION as scum and are saying if not him its me.

[Calix]

Yeah, it reads like you don't actually read AIVION as scum and are saying if not him its me.

No, I am reading him as scum but your weird interaction with that slot is making me reconsider.

Why are you so willing to defend him? You just voted me without explaining that.

[Firebringer]

Like town might say "Oh these two are scum buddies together". But scum no, they want to make it look like they know what they are doing even if they fail. You would be more inclined to say "welp if not this guy, its this guy" So when you are wrong, you still got another lynch in the corridor waiting.

Yeah, Calix is acting a bit scummy here.
Maybe townread her to early.

[Firebringer]

No, I am reading him as scum but your weird interaction with that slot is making me reconsider.

Why are you so willing to defend him? You just voted me without explaining that.

I am voting you becausey ou don't sound like you actually scumread aivion and you want to try to frame me for after a mislynch.

[Calix]

Like town might say "Oh these two are scum buddies together". But scum no, they want to make it look like they know what they are doing even if they fail. You would be more inclined to say "welp if not this guy, its this guy" So when you are wrong, you still got another lynch in the corridor waiting.

Yeah, Calix is acting a bit scummy here.
Maybe townread her to early.

You're discounting the possibility of V/W entirely? Then you're trying to paint my actions as setting up lynches despite the fact that I said twice now that I was reconsidering my stance on AIVION due to your ridiculous defense of him.

WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING HIM THIS HARD? Answer the fucking question.

[Yukitaka Oni]

K...
Fire vs Calix.
Next queue fight please

[Iced_Monopoly]

Well. People talk too much, guess no one even bother reading me lel

Hard to read you with only a previous post about reading. What do you think of the Fire vs Darkness, and Fire vs Calix posts that have gone/going down? Do you believe this could be a potential setup to distance themselves from eachother as scum?

[Calix]

Hard to read you with only a previous post about reading. What do you think of the Fire vs Darkness, and Fire vs Calix posts that have gone/going down? Do you believe this could be a potential setup to distance themselves from eachother as scum?

Seriously, what the hell is it with you and the leading questions?

Instead of having Yuki just state their thoughts on it, you try and direct the answer down a line of "one/ both of them could be scum" even though you haven't provided any evidence to support that statement. Which makes me wonder why you'd include it as a question in the first place.

[Iced_Monopoly]

Seriously, what the hell is it with you and the leading questions?

Instead of having Yuki just state their thoughts on it, you try and direct the answer down a line of "one/ both of them could be scum" even though you haven't provided any evidence to support that statement. Which makes me wonder why you'd include it as a question in the first place.

Youre being rather defensive about something that is not specifically targetted at you.
Yuki is the least active of the active posters right now, so im asking for his opinion on the two major events that have consumed majority of this 8 page game thus far (reasonable enough right?) Those events centre around 3 players in 2 pairings, so I want to know what he thinks of both. The second question regarding the potential pairings is not an accusation of pairings, thus I do not need evidence, it is a line of thought I followed and wasw curious to see if others shared that idea. Yuki could simply answer 'No I dont believe that', and continue on his merry way.

Instead Ive got you here being overly defensive and insinuating that im accusing anyone of being buddied when im merely entertaining the possibility as a concept

[Iced_Monopoly]

Not an accusation of specific players trying to distance themselves from eachother*

[Calix]

Youre being rather defensive about something that is not specifically targetted at you.
Yuki is the least active of the active posters right now, so im asking for his opinion on the two major events that have consumed majority of this 8 page game thus far (reasonable enough right?) Those events centre around 3 players in 2 pairings, so I want to know what he thinks of both. The second question regarding the potential pairings is not an accusation of pairings, thus I do not need evidence, it is a line of thought I followed and wasw curious to see if others shared that idea. Yuki could simply answer 'No I dont believe that', and continue on his merry way.

Instead Ive got you here being overly defensive and insinuating that im accusing anyone of being buddied when im merely entertaining the possibility as a concept

I'm asking why you included it in the first place. What made you want to pursue it as a line of thought? If you are throwing it up as a discussion point, you DO need evidence because otherwise it's just baseless speculation and 'what ifs'. You included it, now justify why you chose that exact question above all other possibilities.

"Entertaining the possibility" is an admission that you think we could be scum together. You didn't say "scum vs town" or "town vs town". You SPECIFICALLY chose "scum vs scum". Now tell us why.

[Unknown1234]

Youre being rather defensive about something that is not specifically targetted at you.
Yuki is the least active of the active posters right now, so im asking for his opinion on the two major events that have consumed majority of this 8 page game thus far (reasonable enough right?) Those events centre around 3 players in 2 pairings, so I want to know what he thinks of both. The second question regarding the potential pairings is not an accusation of pairings, thus I do not need evidence, it is a line of thought I followed and wasw curious to see if others shared that idea. Yuki could simply answer 'No I dont believe that', and continue on his merry way.

Instead Ive got you here being overly defensive and insinuating that im accusing anyone of being buddied when im merely entertaining the possibility as a concept

Instead of asking them their opinion, why don't you share with us about how you feel about the pairings? Because clearly your opinion has not been heard enough

[Firebringer]

K...
Fire vs Calix.
Next queue fight please

SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY
FIREBRINGER VS EVERYONE IN THIS GAME
COME SEE IT ON PAY PER VIEW

[Unknown1234]

SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY
FIREBRINGER VS EVERYONE IN THIS GAME
COME SEE IT ON PAY PER VIEW

Ehh, this is exaggerated. Only five people have spoken enough for this to be possible. Perhaps saying that is your way of implying you have no allies? Or do you actually have no allies and your neutral?

[Calix]

I can't stay up forever to wait for Firebringer's justification of his ridiculously strong town-read on AIVION, aside from the fact that it's making him look worse than AIVION right now.

Why would he promise to fight me if I continued to vote AIVION?

Why would he suddenly proceed to retract his town-read on me and vote me?

Why would he do all of that for the sake of a player who he has given no strong reasoning for them being town enough to vote another player for? (aka, an extended form of chainsawing)

Why the fuck does he keep dodging the simple question of "why are you defending AIVION?"

Why does he prefer to obscure said question by making a bullshit reason about me "setting up lynches" because I changed my mind about AIVION?

Firebringer

[Firebringer]

Ehh, this is exaggerated. Only five people have spoken enough for this to be possible. Perhaps saying that is your way of implying you have no allies? Or do you actually have no allies and your neutral?

Its literally a joke.

[Iced_Monopoly]

I'm asking why you included it in the first place. What made you want to pursue it as a line of thought? If you are throwing it up as a discussion point, you DO need evidence because otherwise it's just baseless speculation and 'what ifs'. You included it, now justify why you chose that exact question above all other possibilities.

"Entertaining the possibility" is an admission that you think we could be scum together. You didn't say "scum vs town" or "town vs town". You SPECIFICALLY chose "scum vs scum". Now tell us why.

Its included because its a question that relates to the previously asked question. Im not stating that there ARE scum v scum in the debate mixes at the moment, im merely acknowledging that we have 3 experienced players all arguing and there could be the possibility that one of the pairs may be setting themselves up as enemies to avoid attention later game.

You write that I didnt say scum v town, because it was implied. Fire is the only consitency between the two arguements, and I dont believe he would attempt the same strategy of distancing between both of you simultaneously, so my (what I thought was incredibly obvious) point was there could be scum v scum and town v scum or town v town x2.


"admission that you think we could be scum together" This comment as well, WE could be scum, why are you consistently focused on yourself in this train of posts? Darkness and fire engaged eachother too, if there was actually a scum distancing play going down here, they would be just as likely candidates as you and fire, yet you continue to focus on yourself.

Your line of questioning is oddly specific, and your attention to just the idea that there could be a scum pairing is suspicious, especially your effort to discredit the idea entirely. Its an entertained thought, one that I now have a little more faith in given your reaction to the ordeal

[Firebringer]

I can't stay up forever to wait for Firebringer's justification of his ridiculously strong town-read on AIVION, aside from the fact that it's making him look worse than AIVION right now.

Why would he promise to fight me if I continued to vote AIVION?

Why would he suddenly proceed to retract his town-read on me and vote me?

Why would he do all of that for the sake of a player who he has given no strong reasoning for them being town enough to vote another player for? (aka, an extended form of chainsawing)

Why the fuck does he keep dodging the simple question of "why are you defending AIVION?"

Why does he prefer to obscure said question by making a bullshit reason about me "setting up lynches" because I changed my mind about AIVION?

Firebringer

You are now voting with AIVION on me. I find this quite humorous.
Go ahead and mislynch me sweetheart. :)

[Firebringer]

Its included because its a question that relates to the previously asked question. Im not stating that there ARE scum v scum in the debate mixes at the moment, im merely acknowledging that we have 3 experienced players all arguing and there could be the possibility that one of the pairs may be setting themselves up as enemies to avoid attention later game.

You write that I didnt say scum v town, because it was implied. Fire is the only consitency between the two arguements, and I dont believe he would attempt the same strategy of distancing between both of you simultaneously, so my (what I thought was incredibly obvious) point was there could be scum v scum and town v scum or town v town x2.


"admission that you think we could be scum together" This comment as well, WE could be scum, why are you consistently focused on yourself in this train of posts? Darkness and fire engaged eachother too, if there was actually a scum distancing play going down here, they would be just as likely candidates as you and fire, yet you continue to focus on yourself.

Your line of questioning is oddly specific, and your attention to just the idea that there could be a scum pairing is suspicious, especially your effort to discredit the idea entirely. Its an entertained thought, one that I now have a little more faith in given your reaction to the ordeal

Why aren't you voting me if you think I am scum and that one of these two is my ally?

[Unknown1234]

Its literally a joke.

YEAH? IS EVERYTHING A JOKE TO YOU?!?!?!?!

[Firebringer]

YEAH? IS EVERYTHING A JOKE TO YOU?!?!?!?!

No, some things are tragic. Like your attempts at humor :)

[Calix]

AIVION isn't as derpy as you say he is. Like, I think you guys are shitting way too much on him. Its really not cool.

You want a fight, cause I will give you a fight. You pick on AIVION you are messing with me.


I take it as null. Thats not indicative of anythign to me but that he informs you that he is still learning. Scared scum? Doubtful, read his comments about the possibility of Kidnapper, scum aren't going to post that. Leave hints about what roles they might or might not have.

Some of the posts defending AIVION. The only reason I can find in the recent posts made is AIVION's comment about the Kidnapper, which FB is taking as gospel for no apparent reason. That does NOT explain the two posts made beforehand where he threatens to chainsaw if I don't lay off AIVION.

[Firebringer]

Some of the posts defending AIVION. The only reason I can find in the recent posts made is AIVION's comment about the Kidnapper, which FB is taking as gospel for no apparent reason. That does NOT explain the two posts made beforehand where he threatens to chainsaw if I don't lay off AIVION.

Because your bullying AIVION, and I don't approve of your bullying, and because you were lining up lynches between us.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Fire is scumiest. He's still the same fire just like in last game lol

[Unknown1234]

No, some things are tragic. Like your attempts at humor :)

Ouch. Getting sour from the double votes??

[Firebringer]

Unknown is moving into my town bracket.
Calix is at Scum lean.

Yuki is still null.
Iced is moving to scum....though I am not really sure on him. He might be neutral.

[Yukitaka Oni]

No, some things are tragic. Like your attempts at humor :)
Just don't laugh in the public how jews was gassed by Hittler, although you can laugh it at home

[Firebringer]

Fire is scumiest. He's still the same fire just like in last game lol

Which game are you refering to lol? Frozens was the most recent completed and I was town.

[AIVION]

YEAH? IS EVERYTHING A JOKE TO YOU?!?!?!?!


YEAH? IS EVERYTHING A JOKE TO YOU?!?!?!?!

I just jumped back and reread the thread and see this guy Making a case one me based off of *loose* properties I.E *Trying to say i'm trying to suck up to the masses with my posts* and now he's trying to discredit Firebringer over one of his obvious posts and making this kind of overreaction?

To me this screams of scum trying to scum-hunt with crumbs instead of actual Cold-Hard facts... It feels really fake to me

Unknown1234

BTW My noob act was a reaction test, good job failing it Unknown :)

Gonna go now since I have a life, be back later to post my thoughts on the game.

Chao!~

[Firebringer]

Ouch. Getting sour from the double votes??

Naah I am sweet as pie. Although I don't find pie to be that sweet....so sweet like candy? That doesn't sound right.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Fire is scumiest. He's still the same fire just like in last game lol
Gonna be boring but i have to say this....my role is not change.....

[Calix]

Its included because its a question that relates to the previously asked question. Im not stating that there ARE scum v scum in the debate mixes at the moment, im merely acknowledging that we have 3 experienced players all arguing and there could be the possibility that one of the pairs may be setting themselves up as enemies to avoid attention later game.

You write that I didnt say scum v town, because it was implied. Fire is the only consitency between the two arguements, and I dont believe he would attempt the same strategy of distancing between both of you simultaneously, so my (what I thought was incredibly obvious) point was there could be scum v scum and town v scum or town v town x2.


"admission that you think we could be scum together" This comment as well, WE could be scum, why are you consistently focused on yourself in this train of posts? Darkness and fire engaged eachother too, if there was actually a scum distancing play going down here, they would be just as likely candidates as you and fire, yet you continue to focus on yourself.

Your line of questioning is oddly specific, and your attention to just the idea that there could be a scum pairing is suspicious, especially your effort to discredit the idea entirely. Its an entertained thought, one that I now have a little more faith in given your reaction to the ordeal

Just because someone is 'experienced' doesn't mean everything they do is part of a WIFOM9000 plan.

Distancing two players implies there are 3 Mafia, which is incorrect, so that line about FB doesn't make sense.

You were referring to Fire and myself, so why would I not reference that?

How is it 'oddly specific'? Your line of questioning ONLY entertained the possibility of scum vs scum while I countered with the points about town vs town/ town vs scum. Nah mate, I'm not the person being 'oddly specific' here.

[AIVION]

I just jumped back and reread the thread and see this guy Making a case one me based off of *loose* properties I.E *Trying to say i'm trying to suck up to the masses with my posts* and now he's trying to discredit Firebringer over one of his obvious posts and making this kind of overreaction?

To me this screams of scum trying to scum-hunt with crumbs instead of actual Cold-Hard facts... It feels really fake to me

Unknown1234

BTW My noob act was a reaction test, good job failing it Unknown :)

Gonna go now since I have a life, be back later to post my thoughts on the game.

Chao!~

*Contribution

sounds dumb If I said scum-hunt since he's really not.

Also E.T.A Is about 8-9 hours. Til then!

[Yukitaka Oni]

Which game are you refering to lol? Frozens was the most recent completed and I was town.
Just a theory. Don't worry, just like my last will. Ya know the other scum..

[Firebringer]

ALl you guys hunting for potential partners is either dumb or scum trying to make up associations. You analyze after you actually get a flip, not before. Plebs.

[Calix]

Because your bullying AIVION, and I don't approve of your bullying, and because you were lining up lynches between us.

Nobody was bullying AIVION and that doesn't explain why you are defending him this hard.

That line about 'lining up lynches' is a massive stretch.

Hm...

[Unknown1234]

Yuki, you have completely avoided the question asked of you by Iced, whether it's because you missed it or not dodging questions is not helping you considering you have not given a legit opinion yet. Mesk is also reading, I would like to see something from her rather then lurking, it's not like her

[Yukitaka Oni]

Yuki, you have completely avoided the question asked of you by Iced, whether it's because you missed it or not dodging questions is not helping you considering you have not given a legit opinion yet. Mesk is also reading, I would like to see something from her rather then lurking, it's not like her
Speak freely

[Iced_Monopoly]

Because you have interpretted it the way it was intended, just a question posed to yuki to gain his perspective on the idea, so you ignored it. Calix instead has launched into it looking to dissolve it rather aggresively. Whilst I wouldnt vote either of you, or darkness on this concept, I would be inclined to vote calix purely for her reaction. But I wont, not yet at least.

[Firebringer]

So guys. How is life?

[Calix]

ALl you guys hunting for potential partners is either dumb or scum trying to make up associations. You analyze after you actually get a flip, not before. Plebs.

I feel like Firebringer might be a Jester. Would explain his weird behaviour.

Rest assured, mate, you'll get your victory.

[Mesk514]

Hello Dear Friends.... and Unknown1234

I was away when the game started... I am catching up on the reading give me a little time please, I am not lurking! :)

[Firebringer]

I feel like Firebringer might be a Jester. Would explain his weird behaviour.

Rest assured, mate, you'll get your victory.

Damn, you figured me out.

[Calix]

Because you have interpretted it the way it was intended, just a question posed to yuki to gain his perspective on the idea, so you ignored it. Calix instead has launched into it looking to dissolve it rather aggresively. Whilst I wouldnt vote either of you, or darkness on this concept, I would be inclined to vote calix purely for her reaction. But I wont, not yet at least.

Come at me with your vote. What else is it going to do, collect dust as it sits on Yuki?

[Firebringer]

Hello Dear Friends.... and Unknown1234

I was away when the game started... I am catching up on the reading give me a little time please, I am not lurking! :)

You better catch up or you are obviously Calix partner (LoL get it? I am creating associations cause I am bad)

[Calix]

Damn, you figured me out.

Feel free to claim whenever.

[Firebringer]

Come at me with your vote. What else is it going to do, collect dust as it sits on Yuki?

I like how we are both internet tough guys :)

[Mesk514]

What is a Calix, and where can I acquire one?

[Firebringer]

I am claiming. I am Jester

[Yukitaka Oni]

I am claiming. I am Jester

Good pun.

[Calix]

I am claiming. I am Jester


Today's lynch.

Anyone who whines about not voting is probably scum.

Take out a Neutral/ WIFOM-ing Mafia + confirm another player.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Hello Dear Friends.... and Unknown1234

I was away when the game started... I am catching up on the reading give me a little time please, I am not lurking! :)
Welcome aboard the non-lynch train MattZed

[Firebringer]

Good pun.

Yuki vote Calix she is Mafia, my role card says so.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Today's lynch.

Anyone who whines about not voting is probably scum.

Take out a Neutral/ WIFOM-ing Mafia + confirm another player.
I wouldn't do that if i were you, . Not all people online yet, they might act (differently) after they saw this post

[Calix]

Yuki vote Calix she is Mafia, my role card says so.

Says the claimed Jester.

Unless you were joking, take your leave.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Yuki vote Calix she is Mafia, my role card says so.
Executioners? Good hint

[Firebringer]

Says the claimed Jester.

Unless you were joking, take your leave.

It was obviously a joke and you know it.

[Firebringer]

Executioners? Good hint

Sure, w/e. Vote Calix.

[Yukitaka Oni]

I would like to......wait for...DarknessB......the show is....going to be.....huge

[Calix]

It was obviously a joke and you know it.

Bitch please. Your reasoning is piss-poor and you know it.

[Firebringer]

If you were town, and you actually believed my Jester claim you would say "Everyone ignore Firebringer he is jester", what did you do? "Everyone lynch the Jester to give him his win".

Anti town shit right there.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Sure, w/e. Vote Calix.
I like to keep you and calix in a fight today so.....not yet

[Whad]

Hello everybody I'm excited to be in this game.

Whad.

[Calix]

If you were town, and you actually believed my Jester claim you would say "Everyone ignore Firebringer he is jester", what did you do? "Everyone lynch the Jester to give him his win".

Anti town shit right there.

It's removing a Neutral slot - and that's in the 'worst-case' scenario that you are Jester. I'm not wasting time with scum roles pretending to be Jester to get a pass.

Neutral dying means we come into Day 2 with the Mafia left. That is IT. Killing a claimed Neutral makes perfect sense.

[Firebringer]

Hello everybody I'm excited to be in this game.

Whad.

Hello, not much to read. Theres a few fights between players in the game. Currently leading suspects I would look at are Iced Monopoly and Calix. Though some people are fixated on AIVION so giving comments on him is good too.

[Calix]

Hello, not much to read. Theres a few fights between players in the game. Currently leading suspects I would look at are Iced Monopoly and Calix. Though some people are fixated on AIVION so giving comments on him is good too.

You town-read AIVION why again?

[Unknown1234]

Hello Dear Friends.... and Unknown1234

I was away when the game started... I am catching up on the reading give me a little time please, I am not lurking! :)

Don't get so hurt, it was merely to get you started rather then just sitting there

[Yukitaka Oni]

Hello everybody I'm excited to be in this game.

Whad.
Welcome newbie, don't cry. You won't die night 1

[Firebringer]

You town-read AIVION why again?

I will say his last post was kind of scummy....not going to lie there.
But I read his posts for most part genuine.

[Firebringer]

I just jumped back and reread the thread and see this guy Making a case one me based off of *loose* properties I.E *Trying to say i'm trying to suck up to the masses with my posts* and now he's trying to discredit Firebringer over one of his obvious posts and making this kind of overreaction?

To me this screams of scum trying to scum-hunt with crumbs instead of actual Cold-Hard facts... It feels really fake to me

Unknown1234

BTW My noob act was a reaction test, good job failing it Unknown :)

Gonna go now since I have a life, be back later to post my thoughts on the game.

Chao!~

I don't know if I believe this orange part.....I don't know. This didn't sound 100% genuine to me.

[Calix]

I will say his last post was kind of scummy....not going to lie there.
But I read his posts for most part genuine.

If you're legit NOT the Jester, can you actually explain your reads more? You made a big deal out of it and then you're just like "he SOUNDS genuine" after we've calmed down a bit.

Christ.

[Unknown1234]

Hello everybody I'm excited to be in this game.

Whad.

I'm going to remember you for posting your name. Ha. (Get it?)

[Firebringer]

God my town reads are dropping off.

Calix, you are still scummy as shit:
Iced Monopoly

I

[Calix]

God my town reads are dropping off.

Calix, you are still scummy as shit:
Iced Monopoly

I

Explain the change in vote, dude.

I wasn't kidding with the Jester thing. If there's a Jester, claim right now and I'll be on your train. 100%

[Unknown1234]

I like to keep you and calix in a fight today so.....not yet

Is Yuki like this with the creepy one sentence posts and acting as if no one should die? This is the biggest scum lean for me.

[Firebringer]

Explain the change in vote, dude.

I wasn't kidding with the Jester thing. If there's a Jester, claim right now and I'll be on your train. 100%

I am not Jester. Even if I was, your displaying anti town behavior for wanting to lynch a jester.
Iced_Monopoly

I don't think tunneling you is going to do me any good, I don't read you as town, you are more null, and Iced bothers me more right now.

[Whad]

DarknessB is looking particularly bad in my quick skim of the game so far.

Calix, can you explain why you put DarknessB in your town pile?

[Firebringer]

Is Yuki like this with the creepy one sentence posts and acting as if no one should die? This is the biggest scum lean for me.

Reads list now pls.

[Firebringer]

DarknessB is looking particularly bad in my quick skim of the game so far.

Calix, can you explain why you put DarknessB in your town pile?

I don't think Calix said this about Darkness.

[Firebringer]

Town
DarknessB
Unknown1234
AIVION
Null
Yukitaka
Whad
Anyone Else

Scum
Calix
Iced Monopoly

[Calix]

I am not Jester. Even if I was, your displaying anti town behavior for wanting to lynch a jester.
Iced_Monopoly

I don't think tunneling you is going to do me any good, I don't read you as town, you are more null, and Iced bothers me more right now.

Think through the numbers, idiot.

We're at 6v2v1. Worst-case scenario, the Jester is lynched, a town dies and the mafia succeeds in their kill. 4v2 (MYLO) That effectively grants us TWO DAYS' worth of chat with NO fear of a Neutral.

Why does Iced bother you so? And what did you make of our interactions, given that you think both of us are scummy?

[Calix]

I don't think Calix said this about Darkness.

He is most likely referring to the beginning of the game, where I said that DB was slight town for appearing like his usual self.

[Unknown1234]

I just jumped back and reread the thread and see this guy Making a case one me based off of *loose* properties I.E *Trying to say i'm trying to suck up to the masses with my posts* and now he's trying to discredit Firebringer over one of his obvious posts and making this kind of overreaction?

To me this screams of scum trying to scum-hunt with crumbs instead of actual Cold-Hard facts... It feels really fake to me

Unknown1234

BTW My noob act was a reaction test, good job failing it Unknown :)

Gonna go now since I have a life, be back later to post my thoughts on the game.

Chao!~

Oh haha that is so funny, watching my posts and looking at my first game. I think it's really cute that you are changing to what Panda did. I hope that works out for you.

[Firebringer]

Think through the numbers, idiot.

We're at 6v2v1. Worst-case scenario, the Jester is lynched, a town dies and the mafia succeeds in their kill. 4v2 (MYLO) That effectively grants us TWO DAYS' worth of chat with NO fear of a Neutral.

Why does Iced bother you so? And what did you make of our interactions, given that you think both of us are scummy?

I think your both scummy for independent reasons and I am not creating associations yet till I see a flip. I don't like Iced creating narratives taht I am scum with one of you and Darkness and then not even voting me.

[Calix]

I think your both scummy for independent reasons and I am not creating associations yet till I see a flip. I don't like Iced creating narratives taht I am scum with one of you and Darkness and then not even voting me.

First I'm 'scummy as shit' then I'm null, then I'm scum again?

[Firebringer]

First I'm 'scummy as shit' then I'm null, then I'm scum again?

Look at the reads list. You are moving more towards null but their is still tons of scummy shit you have said.

[Calix]

Look at the reads list. You are moving more towards null but their is still tons of scummy shit you have said.

Wanting to kill a Jester isn't scummy. Calling you out on your shitty AIVION read and your attempts at evading the question of WHY is also not scummy.

[Unknown1234]

AIVION

[Calix]

Vote Count 1.0

Firebringer (1 [L-4]):
Calix
Yukitaka Oni (1 [L-4]):
Iced_Monopoly
AIVION (1 [L-4]):
Unknown1234
Unknown1234 (2 [L-3]):
DarknessB, AIVION
Iced_Monopoly (1 [L-4]):
Firebringer

[Firebringer]

Unknown reads list please.

[Unknown1234]

Unknown reads list please.

Current Read list:

Town:
Calix
DarknessB
Iced Monopoly

Null:
Firebringer
Whad
Mesk
(Others that have not spoken)

Scum:
AIVION
Yuki

[Calix]

Current Read list:

Town:
Calix
DarknessB
Iced Monopoly

Null:
Firebringer
Whad
Mesk
(Others that have not spoken)

Scum:
AIVION
Yuki

Why do you town-read Iced, DB and myself?

What do you make of Whad's opening questions?

What about FB's behaviour made you conclude that he was null?

[Firebringer]

Want to explain your Calix and Iced Monopoly town reads?
Cause I have both as scum, kind of odd we differ so extremely here.

[Calix]

Also wait, just noticed.

Unknown's read list contains every player here, but he then includes "others who have not spoken"

Not sure what to make of this, but it's curious.

[Unknown1234]

Current Read list:

Town:
Calix
DarknessB
Iced Monopoly

Null:
Firebringer
Whad
Mesk
(Others that have not spoken)

Scum:
AIVION
Yuki

Calix: Seems to be General town in my opinion. She is pursuing Firebringer and AIVION, including thought out points in which has good reasoning towards her accusation

DarknessB: although has not said a lot, I believe that he is town at this point because scum is not trying to pin anyone down for a mislynch.

Iced Monopoly: has had good intentions so far in this game. Have noticed that he is asking some thought out questions, although I would like to hear more about what he thinks based on the questions he has asked.

Null:
Firebringer: most of what he is saying seems to be town lean for me. Although I have noticed that he seems to have a strong defensive position for AIVION, I can understand that and hopefully will see him explain his opinion towards AIVION more

(The rest of the null have not spoken enough for my evaluation)

Scum: AIVION: most of what he is saying makes no sense, or is immediately changed. Starts the game by saying that he has only played three times she. Pressure turns on him. He also tells us that he is usually struggling with people believing that he is town and gets mislynch ex (similar situation to right now). And what bugs me the most is his comment about the reaction test. It was a clear and direct attack on me due o the fact that I commented on the last reaction test from Panda (also explained how ineffective it is). Very scum for me.

Yuki: very short, dull answers. Refuses to give any opinion towards others, and half the stuff Yuki says is very weird and I don't know how relevant it is. Second choice for lynch.

[Unknown1234]

Also wait, just noticed.

Unknown's read list contains every player here, but he then includes "others who have not spoken"

Not sure what to make of this, but it's curious.

I did not include the people who have not said anything yet, I can't read off of them yet

[Calix]

I did not include the people who have not said anything yet, I can't read off of them yet

But everyone HAS spoken. Granted, some are quiet but there are no zero-posters.

[Firebringer]

Also wait, just noticed.

Unknown's read list contains every player here, but he then includes "others who have not spoken"

Not sure what to make of this, but it's curious.

Everyone has posted though mate.
Also, I am leaving now. I going to go watch game of thrones.

[Unknown1234]

But everyone HAS spoken. Granted, some are quiet but there are no zero-posters.

Sorry. I thought there were two people who didn't speak yet, my bad.

[Iced_Monopoly]

I think your both scummy for independent reasons and I am not creating associations yet till I see a flip. I don't like Iced creating narratives taht I am scum with one of you and Darkness and then not even voting me.

I did reply to you, although I think my phone failed to quote. So your suggesting that throwing ideas around and entertaining possibilities is a bad thing? In my reply I stated that I thought none of you were scum based on my 'narrative' but Calix had come across overly defensive and my opinion on her earlier neutral stance had changed.

[Yukitaka Oni]

But everyone HAS spoken. Granted, some are quiet but there are no zero-posters.
But everyone is not....care about the game.......yet

[Calix]

I did reply to you, although I think my phone failed to quote. So your suggesting that throwing ideas around and entertaining possibilities is a bad thing? In my reply I stated that I thought none of you were scum based on my 'narrative' but Calix had come across overly defensive and my opinion on her earlier neutral stance had changed.

So what ARE your views now? What do YOU personally make of the alignments of everyone?