S-FM 193: Final Fantasy VII

[MattZed]

BananaCucho

I have a hard scumread on Banana. She's been much more focused on painting people as scum than on actually reading them. She severely misrepped my position and regularly ignores context, as you can see in previous posts I've quoted. It's clear that the effort she's putting into this game is to paint people as scum, not to actually read them. Town need to read before going after someone; scum just go after mislynches they think they can get away with.

Her votes today have been to random vote me, random vote Gyrlander, unvote much later when Gyrlander roleclaims, and then vote me. It's a single-minded focus that's unbecoming of her, and she only even tries to analyze someone she's already voting or someone who's voting her. She's not making any new enemies, just keeping the old ones.

Thoughts on the other trains:
powerofdeath - As I indicated in my ISO, he's basically not playing. He consistently sheeps the largest train and doesn't even hide that he doesn't know why the train even exists. He's a good candidate for pressure, but frankly an apathetic town can look just like an apathetic scum, which is why he'd be low hanging fruit if we went for straight lynch instead of just pressure. I don't favor a lynch because his flip would give us basically nothing, regardless of alignment.
Saik - Honestly, I haven't taken the effort to try to read this player yet.
Excalibur - This is what we call a policy lynch. Like a PoD lynch, the flip would tell us nothing, but between the two I'd rather policy lynch Excalibur because he's not even bothering to sheep.

[MattZed]

I need to get to bed. I'll be back on around 2 hours before day ends, and possibly sooner for a bit as well.

Mention me if I need to respond to something when I get back.

[GameFreak]

Banana also has been giving me scumvibes but the problem is i have called Toadette scum D1 every game i'm pretty sure. So i never trust that feeling.
That being said i will place my vote there and doing an Iso since our train has collapsed.

Sorry for the harsh words Gyr, i hope you take the message to heart and learn something from this game.
SuperTPR should not put themselves in the spotlight D1. Others should be taking the bullets for them.

BananaCucho

[GameFreak]

Also , DB still waiting on your thoughts of my list.

[GameFreak]

What i also find interesting is how the AIVION train just suddenly disappeared. Its completely gone.
Also SJ was pocketing Gyr pretty hard, to me it felt like he just knew he was town.

[Gyrlander]

I previously gave a slight town read on Banana. I might considering rereading But well, I would like you guys to share your opinión about Saik0 and what he has said so far. Also, pisskof may be scum hiding behind the "I'm newby" carf.

[HeadShrinker]

Jesus grylander, is your goal to lose the game for shinra? Seems like it.

My vote is staying the same.

[Gyrlander]

Jesus grylander, is your goal to lose the game for shinra? Seems like it.

My vote is staying the same.

Votes got reset, you're currently not voting anyone. And why did you say that?

[GameFreak]

Jesus grylander, is your goal to lose the game for shinra? Seems like it.

My vote is staying the same.

Second time this game somebody has felt the need to point out they are indeed shinra , weird as fuck.
just pings the scumdar.

[HeadShrinker]

I did not say "I am shinra" but ok. I said "are you trying to lose FOR shinra?"

Why would I say that you are a bad player? Because clearly you are. If you cannot fathom why I would say that it just goes along with my previous post.

What kind of quality player would post scummy shit for 20 hours and get a lynch train going on them and then only be able to save themselves from the inevitable lynch by revealing their PR on D1??

[HeadShrinker]

Oh since votes got reset I will re-vote

mattzed

[Calix]

In my opinion, the Banana/ MattZed topic should be discussed tomorrow. Given that both of them are stubborn/ have strong personalities, it's possible that they're at each other because of a mix of confirmation bias and ego. Both of them need to back off and reconsider their stance tonight because I do not feel confident lynching either one of them at the moment.

I'm with GameFreak; SuperJack's buddying of pressured townies, plus his chainsawing, does not make sense for a town. He's yet to explain why he town-read Gyrlander strongly enough that he voted not one, but TWO players who suspected him. (GameFreak and DarknessB)

SuperJack

[Calix]

Oh since votes got reset I will re-vote

mattzed

Bad vote. Banana/ MZ needs to be discussed way more than it has been and I'm not interested in rushing a lynch on either of them with only 7/8 hours to go.

[Gyrlander]

I did not say "I am shinra" but ok. I said "are you trying to lose FOR shinra?"

Why would I say that you are a bad player? Because clearly you are. If you cannot fathom why I would say that it just goes along with my previous post.

What kind of quality player would post scummy shit for 20 hours and get a lynch train going on them and then only be able to save themselves from the inevitable lynch by revealing their PR on D1??

I'm done with all of you. I apologised, and said I just went too enthuastic ignoring that I was actually in danger of getting lynched. I swear, I'm red yo. If I survive this night I swear I'll find the fucking scum and if you're sephiroth I recommend you killing me right now. When I get home after English academy + Dentista I'll make sure to go tey hard.

pedir: "It's not red yo" It's fed up

[powerofdeath]

ALL HAIL THE MAYOR

Saik0Shinigami

[Gyrlander]

@piskoof Please, leave the policy lynch for tomorrow and focus on the players that are being focused right now. If you are awake, obviously

[Calix]

@piskoof Please, leave the policy lynch for tomorrow and focus on the players that are being focused right now. If you are awake, obviously

What is your case on Saiko? Why is he/ she your strongest suspect?

And why the fuck is POD just sheeping everyone and nothing else?

[Calix]

Also Gyrlander, now is not the best time to be 'pressuring' players because of how little time we have left. I think you should consider this when you decide who should be 'focused' on.

[pisskop]

headshrinker its wagon suddeny died.

and why the hell are we voting everywhere evar?

[Gyrlander]

What is your case on Saiko? Why is he/ she your strongest suspect?

And why the fuck is POD just sheeping everyone and nothing else?

Saiko--> Will answer when I trn the computer on
And I think POD doesn't give a shit about this game. But I liked that all hail the mayor thing. It makes me feel cool (although he isnt less scummy for that)

And answering to the other question, What I'm supposed to do? I voted the person that gives me bad vibes, and you just voted SJ who from my point of view knew what I was doing and tried to evade me getting voted/ tried to attract attention to himself by voting ppl who were on my train

[Calix]

Saiko--> Will answer when I trn the computer on
And I think POD doesn't give a shit about this game. But I liked that all hail the mayor thing. It makes me feel cool (although he isnt less scummy for that)

And answering to the other question, What I'm supposed to do? I voted the person that gives me bad vibes, and you just voted SJ who from my point of view knew what I was doing and tried to evade me getting voted/ tried to attract attention to himself by voting ppl who were on my train

That's not a good excuse. He clearly gave enough shits to type '/sign' and 'confirm' didn't he?

It was a rhetorical question because it's getting on my tits.

Yes, that kind of behaviour falls under white-knighting. Now that we know that you're town, the fact that he defended you that strongly is suspicious. Scum would know who town is and can act accordingly to pocket them. He didn't evaluate the train to pick who he felt the scum were, he just voted without explanation at whoever was attacking you when he was around.

[pisskop]

saik0Shinigami


This is acceptable. Excalibur is acceptable, somebody pushing a case for more than the last 4 pages; that push is acceptable

to boot saiko is beliw the line

[pisskop]

calix, tomorrow. Give it a grace period

[Calix]

calix, tomorrow. Give it a grace period

I'll see. Not gonna lie, I'm expecting all of the Muricans to spam the chat in a few hours. (just you wait until EOD, lol)

[Gyrlander]

I have to go like in a few minutes, but I'll be clear. Saik0 posts were basically shit posts and some "I like to play like this and I don't like this". A passive player. Until suddenly....


Eh, I'm not entirely convinced. Even if this is a mislynch I think that it's not going to be as detrimental as a different user being mislynched. I'm sorry. I must board the train, you're more deserving than calix at the moment. Even if you didn't get lynched today it would come shortly the moment anyone you opposed died. Also, in the matrix/table I setup, you have very few positive ties, so you're most useless data to me if a kill occurs at night and they pick you.

Gyrlander

CHAN CHAN! Votes me saying that "even if this is a mislynch" I just have to die because my death won't be so detrimental as someone else being lynched. So basically it is a: yeah, I don't care if you're townie, your death is better than getting someone else mislynched, althought at that moment WE HAD PLENTLY OF TIME to try to scum-hunt more ppl. And that argument of "someone who opposed you would die". Of course someone would have, basically because most of the players were voting me ....

Then, refuses to quit the vote because I could actually not be Rufus, although I think that from my previous gameplay I think my reasons were more than justified if I was mayor. Didn't like that. AT ALL.

And then, he votes POD, a player that is basically not giving a shit about the game instead of the players that were currently on discussion. Never gave a oppinion about someone except voting me.

I go. Bye.

[Calix]

CHAN CHAN! Votes me saying that "even if this is a mislynch" I just have to die because my death won't be so detrimental as someone else being lynched. So basically it is a: yeah, I don't care if you're townie, your death is better than getting someone else mislynched, althought at that moment WE HAD PLENTLY OF TIME to try to scum-hunt more ppl. And that argument of "someone who opposed you would die". Of course someone would have, basically because most of the players were voting me ....

Then, refuses to quit the vote because I could actually not be Rufus, although I think that from my previous gameplay I think my reasons were more than justified if I was mayor. Didn't like that. AT ALL.

Some pretty decent points overall. Your first point is the most convincing one to me. Saiko's wording has pinged me a couple times, most notably in that incident when he came across as unsure of wherever he should unvote me. (he said that something scummier had to happen in order to 'allow' him to unvote) Considering that he kept his RVS vote on me before switching to you, this reinforces my idea that he's self-conscious about how his voting patterns look.

That comment about mislynches is the most damning, however; being that casual about a mislynch in this setup (going as far as to preemptively justify Gyrlander's mislynch) looks like scum who is trying to fabricate reasoning to join a wagon. Especially given how many times it's been repeated that we CANNOT afford many mislynches.

Saik0Shinigami

[Calix]

Also he's on L-2.

Vote Count
powerofdeath (1 [L-6]):
Saik0Shinigami
Saik0Shinigami (5 [L-2]):
Gyrlander (Mayor), pisskop, Calix, powerofdeath
BananaCucho (2 [L-5]):
MattZed, GameFreak
MattZed (1 [L-6]):
HeadShrinker

[pisskop]

i hate how the votes dont pop out in order

[SuperJack]

Oh ey, surprise surprise. People fucking day one up again 0-o People need to learn the difference between looking scummy and being scummy.

I'm going to sip my tea whilst being god damn proud of myself for seeing past Gyr's "scummy look"

At-least this will help with VCA. Shame he revealed early though, no one was going to lynch this early.

[Calix]

i hate how the votes dont pop out in order

If you go to the vote count at the top and click on the name of a voter, it takes you to their post. So that's one upside to it :p

[Calix]

Oh ey, surprise surprise. People fucking day one up again 0-o People need to learn the difference between looking scummy and being scummy.

I'm going to sip my tea whilst being god damn proud of myself for seeing past Gyr's "scummy look"

At-least this will help with VCA. Shame he revealed early though, no one was going to lynch this early.

Fancy looking at the VCs yourself? Fancy explaining what convinced you that Gyrlander was 'scummy town' and not 'scum'? Fancy telling us why you attacked the voters on his train as much as you did?

[GameFreak]

He was at L-1

[Calix]

He was at L-1

How do you mean? It says L-2 for me.

[GameFreak]

Still in calc class but yeah for me saik0 or Sj are both good lynches.

[GameFreak]

Calix. Sj asked why gyr revealed. He was l1

[pisskop]

SJ is one of those people who wont be around at lylo. Or better not be. I just dont have the same pull here :-\

[Calix]

SJ is one of those people who wont be around at lylo. Or better not be. I just dont have the same pull here :-\

You should look up 'Charmander's Revenge' in the S-FM Archives (the one that was completed last summer) if you want to see why you're correct in your fears xD

What do you mean with your last line?

[pisskop]

I dont have 75 games on this site to hold a reputation for forcing Policy lynches and being an asshole

[SuperJack]

SJ is one of those people who wont be around at lylo. Or better not be. I just dont have the same pull here :-\

Ehh? 0-o

[Calix]

I dont have 75 games on this site to hold a reputation for forcing Policy lynches and being an asshole

You should get an early start then, lol. People like to be plebs about meta so you might as well make it clear what your usual playstyle is like from the get-go.

[GameFreak]

I dont have 75 games on this site to hold a reputation for forcing Policy lynches and being an asshole

So when can we expect you to actually contribute some reads ? At about game 30 ?

[pisskop]

Oh. I a fairly underrated player.

Im kind of floaty as town, and the scumtells I look for arent what most people would even notice. I tend to shitpost more as town.
As scum I often get townread. Im predatory, scheming, and probably one of the best setup-speccers around. But then agains, thats on MS; im painfully aware how 'tame' those games usually are. Even my political forum's games are tame in comparison.

I suggested a basic setup for the newbie game theyre running and SJ shat on it :'(



People always complain that I am too obviously scum as scum. But the problem is they only see it when Im killing them in the back.

[SuperJack]

Oh. I a fairly underrated player.

Im kind of floaty as town, and the scumtells I look for arent what most people would even notice. I tend to shitpost more as town.
As scum I often get townread. Im predatory, scheming, and probably one of the best setup-speccers around. But then agains, thats on MS; im painfully aware how 'tame' those games usually are. Even my political forum's games are tame in comparison.

I suggested a basic setup for the newbie game theyre running and SJ shat on it :'(



People always complain that I am too obviously scum as scum. But the problem is they only see it when Im killing them in the back.

Nah just Calix gave a better suggestion.

[GameFreak]

You should get an early start then, lol. People like to be plebs about meta so you might as well make it clear what your usual playstyle is like from the get-go.

I dont see the issue with meta you used it all the time. Only a fool would not use all info available to him. Actually the only times you disagree with meta is when you are scum which has happened 2 times now.

[pisskop]

Nope. All over it SJ.


Gamefreak, the issue with your nagging, on a realtalk level, is that it lacks any power to force me to. I will thusly not and preserve my meta

[HeadShrinker]

Just went back through the thread.

Continue to think MZ and darkness are very likely scum. Never really thought grylander was scum, hes just shit.

I see a lot of action on the saiko train but I cant figure out how anyone could substantiate this vote. Seems like he mentions old versions of this game and has questions about policy etc, I dont read this as selling his vote or being wishy-washy. Maybe getting a scummy town vibe but not a scum read from these actions.

My reasoning for MZ remains the same and my vote remains unchanged.

[Calix]

I dont see the issue with meta you used it all the time. Only a fool would not use all info available to him. Actually the only times you disagree with meta is when you are scum which has happened 2 times now.

I was defending meta earlier with my read on AIVION.

My point was that some players on here use it too much. Instead of reading the player, they just go "they're acting differently, must be scum" without considering wherever the 'new play' is actually scum-motivated. I like to switch up my play-style sometimes and it gets annoying when you get auto-scumread for it JUST because you changed your play-style - it just encourages people to play the same way every game when that happens.

Meta is the cherry on the cake when it comes to reads. It's not the whole fucking cake.

[GameFreak]

Thats a cool monologue you pulled there piss but actions tell me more than words. Luckily for you , you have 7 hours left to make a brilliant setup spec. Im waiting.

You seem like a scared seph.

[SuperJack]

Trying to find somewhere to talk arousing the internet

Lol and Teamspeak in english wtf did I expect it to be in any other language?

Wouldn't it be awesome going into a french one and talking pre-tend french!

Also. GameFreak. Nacho Cheese.

[GameFreak]

Just went back through the thread.

Continue to think MZ and darkness are very likely scum. Never really thought grylander was scum, hes just shit.

I see a lot of action on the saiko train but I cant figure out how anyone could substantiate this vote. Seems like he mentions old versions of this game and has questions about policy etc, I dont read this as selling his vote or being wishy-washy. Maybe getting a scummy town vibe but not a scum read from these actions.

My reasoning for MZ remains the same and my vote remains unchanged.

You insist on calling the people who vote you scum. So its hard to take you serious

[pisskop]

Thats a cool monologue you pulled there piss but actions tell me more than words. Luckily for you , you have 7 hours left to make a brilliant setup spec. Im waiting.

You seem like a scared seph.
This sounds like a soft.

I hope you get NKed

[pisskop]

Dont you try to out brute a brute son.

[pisskop]

I was defending meta earlier with my read on AIVION.

My point was that some players on here use it too much. Instead of reading the player, they just go "they're acting differently, must be scum" without considering wherever the 'new play' is actually scum-motivated. I like to switch up my play-style sometimes and it gets annoying when you get auto-scumread for it JUST because you changed your play-style - it just encourages people to play the same way every game when that happens.

Meta is the cherry on the cake when it comes to reads. It's not the whole fucking cake.

Now see, as far as content goes, the length of posts, the frequency, etc, Id agree. But people have a whole slew of unconcious things they do as either alignment. their motivations change according to their wincon.

[SuperJack]

Nope. All over it SJ.


Gamefreak, the issue with your nagging, on a realtalk level, is that it lacks any power to force me to. I will thusly not and preserve my meta

meta

https://media.giphy.com/media/qMHw6uYMJa7Xq/giphy.gif

[GameFreak]

Dont you try to out brute a brute son.

How silly of me to expect any form of usefullness of a supposed town. Lets all just sit here and do nothing while scum win.

[Calix]

Now see, as far as content goes, the length of posts, the frequency, etc, Id agree. But people have a whole slew of unconcious things they do as either alignment. their motivations change according to their wincon.

I'm not arguing that people play the same way as all alignments. I just think that this site is too extreme in their attitude towards new playstyles. Really, people should be encouraging each other to switch it up - you can see the things that DON'T change that way.

[GameFreak]

Nah thats the fun Calix. Can a pressureplayer keep up his guise as scum. If he cant he should simply be lynched, lose and learn. Meta has always dictated games and always will.

[HeadShrinker]

You insist on calling the people who vote you scum. So its hard to take you serious

Ok. Valuable reply, thank you.

[GameFreak]

Just like im 100% positive SJ plays like this to not get D1 lynched and he knows.

[pisskop]

Ok. Valuable reply, thank you.

How do you feel about the day? Does it look good from the vanity mirror on your wagon?

[Calix]

Nah thats the fun Calix. Can a pressureplayer keep up his guise as scum. If he cant he should simply be lynched, lose and learn. Meta has always dictated games and always will.

Not what I was arguing. This is going into policy-debating, which is NAI, so I'll cut it short.

[GameFreak]

Fair enough. Forgot what nai even is. Anyway class is done and happy hour is starting. Be back at end of day.

Find it odd how headstriker defends saik0

[Saik0Shinigami]

And then, he votes POD, a player that is basically not giving a shit about the game instead of the players that were currently on discussion. Never gave a oppinion about someone except voting me.

I go. Bye.

You need to learn how to read. I stated why I'm voting PoD. It's for the same exact reasons I voted you before. Without more information, I find him to be the most worthy. I never targeted you based on anything else aside from what I wrote. You're just mad that people voted you based on the hole you had dug yourself in. If that's a problem then I'd like to know what information you have that I don't. And on top of that, I never stated any opinion about anyone. I stated facts every time or what instinct is telling me. I'm still highly on the fence with Calix. I still want to know why DarknessB and MattZed more or less ignore each other or cooperate so heavily without bothering to look into each other. Nobody else has bothered to read any of that stuff that I posted but automatically pin me as bad because I can see and justify some loss if I happen to be wrong.

People who don't actively commit to this game and do things like what Grylander did and what PoD are doing are actively making it harder to scumhunt. They are literally being scum shields which is just as bad, if not worse than playing a scum role.

[HeadShrinker]

Meta has always dictated games and always will.

Playing like this is not wise and will lead to better and smarter players easily outclassing you.

Join date: Dec 2011
Posts: 76

Such meta.

[Calix]

Playing like this is not wise and will lead to better and smarter players easily outclassing you.

Join date: Dec 2011
Posts: 76

Such meta.

In-game posts weren't counted until recently. If they were, mine would be over 2,000 by now, lol.

[HeadShrinker]

In-game posts weren't counted until recently. If they were, mine would be over 2,000 by now, lol.

Then I apologize and retract my statement. Thought it was super weird that youve been here 5 years and all your posts are in this thread, essentially.

[GameFreak]

I cant answer the whole thing but i do agree with your last part. Fuck scumshields. Also db mz is simple, we want info out there so pressuring people who are busy gathering info from scumshields is defeating the purpose.

[GameFreak]

I cant answer the whole thing but i do agree with your last part. Fuck scumshields. Also db mz is simple, we want info out there so pressuring people who are busy gathering info from scumshields is defeating the purpose.

In reference to saik0

[GameFreak]

Then I apologize and retract my statement. Thought it was super weird that youve been here 5 years and all your posts are in this thread, essentially.

Dont worry my first 3 games on this site when i came back i was the lynchtrain d1 and first one i got called a new mafia player.

[Calix]

Dont worry my first 3 games on this site when i came back i was the lynchtrain d1 and first one i got called a new mafia player.

GameFreak is also good at bringing the salt to games ;)

[Saik0Shinigami]

Some pretty decent points overall. Your first point is the most convincing one to me. Saiko's wording has pinged me a couple times, most notably in that incident when he came across as unsure of wherever he should unvote me. (he said that something scummier had to happen in order to 'allow' him to unvote) Considering that he kept his RVS vote on me before switching to you, this reinforces my idea that he's self-conscious about how his voting patterns look.

That comment about mislynches is the most damning, however; being that casual about a mislynch in this setup (going as far as to preemptively justify Gyrlander's mislynch) looks like scum who is trying to fabricate reasoning to join a wagon. Especially given how many times it's been repeated that we CANNOT afford many mislynches.

Saik0Shinigami

My wording pings you? that's funny, because that's the same reasoning I told you that I'm keeping my vote on you earlier. Something about you irks me man.

And the comments about accepting a mislynch, I wasn't supposing that a mislynch was likely. I was asked by Grylander how I could justify voting them. I laid out every scenario in my head and explained them 3 out of 4 were safe for me and he was at the base level worthy of the vote based on actions. He honestly deserved and clearly everyone agreed otherwise why did he have to lay out his role one Day 1? Why am I taking fire for waiting until the soft-claim was validated? That's a bit weak.

Calix you seems to want to follow Grylander to the ends of the earth now that they've been outed at Mayor. Being mayor doesn't make them a good player or good reader. And let's be honest, D1 reveal means that they're going to die soon.

[Calix]

My wording pings you? that's funny, because that's the same reasoning I told you that I'm keeping my vote on you earlier. Something about you irks me man.

And the comments about accepting a mislynch, I wasn't supposing that a mislynch was likely. I was asked by Grylander how I could justify voting them. I laid out every scenario in my head and explained them 3 out of 4 were safe for me and he was at the base level worthy of the vote based on actions. He honestly deserved and clearly everyone agreed otherwise why did he have to lay out his role one Day 1? Why am I taking fire for waiting until the soft-claim was validated? That's a bit weak.

Calix you seems to want to follow Grylander to the ends of the earth now that they've been outed at Mayor. Being mayor doesn't make them a good player or good reader. And let's be honest, D1 reveal means that they're going to die soon.

Yes, you word things like you're aware and all too self-conscious about how you look. You say that the way I talk irks you but I've posted a bunch and you're still no closer to pinning down how...?

If that was your intention, then setting it out in bulletpoint style would have made it clearer. Your post was all over the place and didn't seem very considered to me.

You're massively exaggerating how I reacted to Gyrlander being town. You wouldn't know this, but Gyrlander has been sheepish and utterly lacking in initiative in their first few games. The fact that they are scum-reading you on their own initiative is a massive improvement and lined up with my previous suspicions.

We're short of time, so let's make this easy. Give us your scum-reads, explain why you hold those views, and make a case for your strongest one.

[Gyrlander]

Just went back through the thread.

Continue to think MZ and darkness are very likely scum. Never really thought grylander was scum, hes just shit.

I see a lot of action on the saiko train but I cant figure out how anyone could substantiate this vote. Seems like he mentions old versions of this game and has questions about policy etc, I dont read this as selling his vote or being wishy-washy. Maybe getting a scummy town vibe but not a scum read from these actions.

My reasoning for MZ remains the same and my vote remains unchanged.

So you never thought I was scum But in the other post you said a part of you was sad you didn't lynch me when you had the chance. And yeah, keep calling me shit. When I get you lynched I will say the same.

[SuperJack]

So you never thought I was scum But in the other post you said a part of you was sad you didn't lynch me when you had the chance. And yeah, keep calling me shit. When I get you lynched I will say the same.

hi

[pisskop]

\o

[Gyrlander]

hi

Hello, Jack. Very interested on your play as from now. I have you as a very intelligent and aware player who acts really dumb. That"s cute

[HeadShrinker]

So you never thought I was scum But in the other post you said a part of you was sad you didn't lynch me when you had the chance. And yeah, keep calling me shit. When I get you lynched I will say the same.

Yeah I said part of me was sad for not lynching yuo when I had the chance, to remove you from the game. Not because of your scumminess but moreso because you were playing terribly.

[pisskop]

That"s cute
No,
http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic11750_1.gif
thats cute

[pisskop]

What is 'rep', how does it accrue, and why is it maxed at ten?

[Gyrlander]

Yeah I said part of me was sad for not lynching yuo when I had the chance, to remove you from the game. Not because of your scumminess but moreso because you were playing terribly.

If your reaction to someone playing wrong is lynchig them, it shows you dont want people to improve. Just saying.

[Gyrlander]

No,
http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic11750_1.gif
thats cute

You know well, bruh

[MattZed]

I think a no-lynch is unacceptable, and when we get down to 2 hours before day ends, I will support any lynch that avoids no-lynch.

Until that time, however, I must insist on the BananaCucho lynch. It's not just that she's making poor reads, but she's doing conventionally scum maneuvers as well: Remember that time she called Gyrlander scummy for being unwilling to vote anyone? Yeah, it can be scummy to play neutral and be slow to vote, but she's doing much the same. She didn't move her vote around in RVS; it was stuck on Gyrlander for basically the entire day.

To make a good D1 lynch, you need to go for likely scum (which I've already outlined) and make a lynch whose flip would be informative. Any of the other lynches proposed give basically no information; if any of those people flipped scum, I wouldn't have a guess as to their partners. BananaCucho's lynch, everyone can objectively see, would be informative. If she flips scum, just look at what that says about myself and SuperJack. It would also cast some doubt on Darkness, who gave a null-town ISO of her that ignored some more suspicious details. (like reading GameFreak as town merely for stating something like "town shouldn't need to say they're town") If she flips town, wouldn't everyone suddenly have a lot of reason to suspect me, and her read on SJ would suddenly seem more valid? Even if I were wrong on my read, everyone should suspect that her lynch will give good information and lead to the death of a scum even if she herself is not scum.
Gyrlander, I skimmed your reasons for voting Saik, but he's not the only person who fits the bill for the things you see in him; those are decent things to look for in scum, but he's simply not the best lynch today; what more information do you have on him than on anyone else? I urge you to reconsider putting off the BananaCucho business 'til later; you may not be alive tomorrow, and today is the only day you may have to lead a lynch. BananaCucho is scummy, and barring that her lynch is objectively useful.
Calix, do you sincerely believe me vs. Banana is TvT? Unless you seriously want to advance this case, take a side.

Back in a few hours.

[pisskop]

We arent no lynching.

[pisskop]

what a bad thing to do. Its disguisting

[Saik0Shinigami]

Yes, you word things like you're aware and all too self-conscious about how you look. You say that the way I talk irks you but I've posted a bunch and you're still no closer to pinning down how...?

If that was your intention, then setting it out in bulletpoint style would have made it clearer. Your post was all over the place and didn't seem very considered to me.

You're massively exaggerating how I reacted to Gyrlander being town. You wouldn't know this, but Gyrlander has been sheepish and utterly lacking in initiative in their first few games. The fact that they are scum-reading you on their own initiative is a massive improvement and lined up with my previous suspicions.

We're short of time, so let's make this easy. Give us your scum-reads, explain why you hold those views, and make a case for your strongest one.

Bulletpoint? Holy shit, you guys aren't reading my posts because I don't have bulletpoints? Hold on, let me put on my bbcode wizard hat.

I'm not giving you my list as is, the stuff I track isn't easy to understand and the way I write notes doesn't help anyone else understand it either (doesn't help that I use a matrix in excel either). But here are the highlights!


BananaCucho - Scum-leaning in talk. Actions are null/slighttown read to me. Very reactionary, but not in a way that speaks scum to me. A bit all over the place, the shit I would expect from day 1
SuperJack - I'm on a fence here. I would like to say scum-leaning, but I'm sure it's town. Not giving up much information due to the RP/shitposting going on, but I wouldn't deem that scummy. If gyrlander had come out as scum rather than mayor, superjack relationship with and defense of Gyrlander would have scumread them to me. I was previously a little wary here.
Gyrlander - verified mayor, still scum shield. I'm not going to bother talking about this.
Excalibur - No play.. no read. almost 48 hours into the game and one post. If I was shifty I would have replaced by now. It's no fun to play a game and have 1/13th of the game missing. Would you play solitaire with a random 4 cards missing from the deck and you don't know which they are? But that's not my call so I can't say anything more here.
AIVION - I'm calling null/slight-town here. Nothing puts me onto thinking that I have anything to worry about. There's enough relational data that should AIVION die, I can draw a couple good conclusions about other players which is a good sign of town to me.
MattZed - A play I don't like. I don't like players with no established credibility making calls. There's a weird relationship between Matt and Darkness that throws me off too. The only reasoning that can explain it in my head is they know each other roles. scum/scumpartner. Bandwagoned a bit hard pushing someone I would consider town to L-2.
Pisskop - Eh, Pisskop bother's me slightly in the same way as PoD. I'm going to say scum-leaning in talk. But I think they're town. They contribute loads more useful information to me than I would expect a scum to.
Calix - As I've stated many times. I don't like the way you talk/look. It's just your face /s. I'm sorry. But you now cling to mayor for dear life... outside of that you're...almost too neutral. It's fishy, and I don't live by an ocean. I'm scum-leaning you. But at this point you're not on my list of need to vote anymore considering there are bigger fish with weirder relational data.
Powerofdeath - scum or at the very least, scum-shielding. Both are equal to me. too much fluff, too much 'random' voting. Can't post anything coherent in my opinion.
Gamefreak - Null/town-leaning, Nothing I've read bothers me too much considering everything else.
Headshrinker - Town. He play town in a way I would expect from where I come from. I'm comfortable with this.
Saik0Shinigami - sexiest man alive of course.
DarknessB - MattZed's partner in crime it would seem. Defer everything to each other without really questioning much of anything from only MattZed. Scum/scumpartner. Darkness is just a guilty as MattZed to me. Also attempting to stay in the middle of the field acting like


I see more or less 3 cliques... and I think 2 outliers.

If the relationship between MattZed and DarknessB can be explained away to me then those players can be washed away of their sins and replaced by the scum-leaning. So you can see why I want PoD to go since the other 2 haven't yet explained their blind apparent trust in each other's judgement without much issue. Both have more or less claimed at some point that they're looking for information, but never appear to probe each other. The most I've seen was a difference in opinion on Gyrlander ISO... and some semantic difference earlier. I've mentioned this something like 150 posts ago and nobody bothered to acknowledge this was happening btw.

I don't care that Gyrlanders previous games show them to be sheepish or whatever. Previous play never ever ever should affect ANYONE's judgement. If they act scum they should be judged it. It doesn't help ANYONE to scum-shield in the slightest. This is why I made those comments earlier. But, I'm actually glad that Grylander is mayor, because that coming up now puts more light on the MattZed and DarknessB since they noped out the moment the soft-claim was made.

This is the best I care to write up. Going through posts to do ISO of everyone to explain myself is too much work to warrant on this game. Also, I'm not ever going to directly share my matrix. I'd be writing for hours explaining why things are the way they are on it.

Another note on how I operate. The moment someone says "<person> is very new <blahblah>" I discount that post. Age in game(or on forum), or previous apparent 'personal qualities' don't mean shit if someone understands they have them. You can easily use those 'faults' in a person as a strength because people come to expect it from you. If I get into another game with Gyrlander and they did the same thing in that game... you bet your ass I'd say the same exact reaction, because that was what was deserved. Sidenote: Is gyrlander supposed to sound like 'gear-lander' in my head?

Does this wall of text appease you now senpai Calix? Do I get a cookie yet?


preposting edit: FFS... of course now after I wrote this wall of text MattZed says something that would distance them from DarknessB. I need to adjust some shit later. I need breakfast.

[Calix]

I think a no-lynch is unacceptable, and when we get down to 2 hours before day ends, I will support any lynch that avoids no-lynch.

Nobody was talking about not lynching and we have a train at L-2. Bursting in with some self-righteous 'lynching is good' wankery makes no sense.


Until that time, however, I must insist on the BananaCucho lynch. It's not just that she's making poor reads, but she's doing conventionally scum maneuvers as well: Remember that time she called Gyrlander scummy for being unwilling to vote anyone? Yeah, it can be scummy to play neutral and be slow to vote, but she's doing much the same. She didn't move her vote around in RVS; it was stuck on Gyrlander for basically the entire day.

To make a good D1 lynch, you need to go for likely scum (which I've already outlined) and make a lynch whose flip would be informative. Any of the other lynches proposed give basically no information; if any of those people flipped scum, I wouldn't have a guess as to their partners. BananaCucho's lynch, everyone can objectively see, would be informative. If she flips scum, just look at what that says about myself and SuperJack. It would also cast some doubt on Darkness, who gave a null-town ISO of her that ignored some more suspicious details. (like reading GameFreak as town merely for stating something like "town shouldn't need to say they're town") If she flips town, wouldn't everyone suddenly have a lot of reason to suspect me, and her read on SJ would suddenly seem more valid? Even if I were wrong on my read, everyone should suspect that her lynch will give good information and lead to the death of a scum even if she herself is not scum.

I must insist that lynching someone who would be better able to defend themselves on Day 2 is the optimal move. We have scummier players than Banana.

Also your logic about 'informative' flips is bullshit. Any town lynch = little information because you cannot form associations as easily. ANY scum lynch gives us information as to who voted, distanced, potentially bussed, buddied, etc. You should NOT lynch on Day 1 just to get information and your focus on this is not only flawed but scummy. (you talk about clearing yourself if she's scum? Why is that a reason important enough for you to mention? You're already forming pre-flip associations?)


Gyrlander, I skimmed your reasons for voting Saik, but he's not the only person who fits the bill for the things you see in him; those are decent things to look for in scum, but he's simply not the best lynch today; what more information do you have on him than on anyone else? I urge you to reconsider putting off the BananaCucho business 'til later; you may not be alive tomorrow, and today is the only day you may have to lead a lynch. BananaCucho is scummy, and barring that her lynch is objectively useful.
Calix, do you sincerely believe me vs. Banana is TvT? Unless you seriously want to advance this case, take a side.

Back in a few hours.

I don't like how dismissive MZ is of the Saiko train. That, combined with his odd priorities for lynching someone (wants an 'informative' lynch and puts more emphasis on that compared to lynching scum) makes me even less confident of this case. He's even pleading to Gyrlander to switch votes by saying 'you might be dead tomorrow' which has NO relevance to Banana's alignment.

It's too hasty for me to agree with today. I'm not voting for either of you two.

[Calix]

tl;dr: MattZed's post about informative lynches is cancer.

[pisskop]

You dont like information lynches? :x

[Calix]

You dont like information lynches? :x

On Day 1? Not a chance in hell. Scum lynch > 'informational' lynches

If someone revealed themselves on like, Day 4 and said "I'm this role that can confirm 4 players as town" then lynching them to prove that this information is correct = acceptable.

Lynching a player on Day 1 just to get associations? Absolutely not. It's Day 1. Pre-flip associations will be way off the mark and end up backfiring on the town FME. If you lynch scum, you have objective evidence of their relationships with other players. Anyone else is almost useless.

[Gyrlander]

tl;dr: MattZed's post about informative lynches is cancer.

Thoughts about Saik0 recent post?

[Saik0Shinigami]

Thoughts about Saik0 recent post?

No, we ignore my posts... Don't you see the vote counter on me?

[SuperJack]

Bulletpoint? Holy shit, you guys aren't reading my posts because I don't have bulletpoints? Hold on, let me put on my bbcode wizard hat.

I'm not giving you my list as is, the stuff I track isn't easy to understand and the way I write notes doesn't help anyone else understand it either (doesn't help that I use a matrix in excel either). But here are the highlights!


BananaCucho - Scum-leaning in talk. Actions are null/slighttown read to me. Very reactionary, but not in a way that speaks scum to me. A bit all over the place, the shit I would expect from day 1
SuperJack - I'm on a fence here. I would like to say scum-leaning, but I'm sure it's town. Not giving up much information due to the RP/shitposting going on, but I wouldn't deem that scummy. If gyrlander had come out as scum rather than mayor, superjack relationship with and defense of Gyrlander would have scumread them to me. I was previously a little wary here.
Gyrlander - verified mayor, still scum shield. I'm not going to bother talking about this.
Excalibur - No play.. no read. almost 48 hours into the game and one post. If I was shifty I would have replaced by now. It's no fun to play a game and have 1/13th of the game missing. Would you play solitaire with a random 4 cards missing from the deck and you don't know which they are? But that's not my call so I can't say anything more here.
AIVION - I'm calling null/slight-town here. Nothing puts me onto thinking that I have anything to worry about. There's enough relational data that should AIVION die, I can draw a couple good conclusions about other players which is a good sign of town to me.
MattZed - A play I don't like. I don't like players with no established credibility making calls. There's a weird relationship between Matt and Darkness that throws me off too. The only reasoning that can explain it in my head is they know each other roles. scum/scumpartner. Bandwagoned a bit hard pushing someone I would consider town to L-2.
Pisskop - Eh, Pisskop bother's me slightly in the same way as PoD. I'm going to say scum-leaning in talk. But I think they're town. They contribute loads more useful information to me than I would expect a scum to.
Calix - As I've stated many times. I don't like the way you talk/look. It's just your face /s. I'm sorry. But you now cling to mayor for dear life... outside of that you're...almost too neutral. It's fishy, and I don't live by an ocean. I'm scum-leaning you. But at this point you're not on my list of need to vote anymore considering there are bigger fish with weirder relational data.
Powerofdeath - scum or at the very least, scum-shielding. Both are equal to me. too much fluff, too much 'random' voting. Can't post anything coherent in my opinion.
Gamefreak - Null/town-leaning, Nothing I've read bothers me too much considering everything else.
Headshrinker - Town. He play town in a way I would expect from where I come from. I'm comfortable with this.
Saik0Shinigami - sexiest man alive of course.
DarknessB - MattZed's partner in crime it would seem. Defer everything to each other without really questioning much of anything from only MattZed. Scum/scumpartner. Darkness is just a guilty as MattZed to me. Also attempting to stay in the middle of the field acting like


I see more or less 3 cliques... and I think 2 outliers.

If the relationship between MattZed and DarknessB can be explained away to me then those players can be washed away of their sins and replaced by the scum-leaning. So you can see why I want PoD to go since the other 2 haven't yet explained their blind apparent trust in each other's judgement without much issue. Both have more or less claimed at some point that they're looking for information, but never appear to probe each other. The most I've seen was a difference in opinion on Gyrlander ISO... and some semantic difference earlier. I've mentioned this something like 150 posts ago and nobody bothered to acknowledge this was happening btw.

I don't care that Gyrlanders previous games show them to be sheepish or whatever. Previous play never ever ever should affect ANYONE's judgement. If they act scum they should be judged it. It doesn't help ANYONE to scum-shield in the slightest. This is why I made those comments earlier. But, I'm actually glad that Grylander is mayor, because that coming up now puts more light on the MattZed and DarknessB since they noped out the moment the soft-claim was made.

This is the best I care to write up. Going through posts to do ISO of everyone to explain myself is too much work to warrant on this game. Also, I'm not ever going to directly share my matrix. I'd be writing for hours explaining why things are the way they are on it.

Another note on how I operate. The moment someone says "<person> is very new <blahblah>" I discount that post. Age in game(or on forum), or previous apparent 'personal qualities' don't mean shit if someone understands they have them. You can easily use those 'faults' in a person as a strength because people come to expect it from you. If I get into another game with Gyrlander and they did the same thing in that game... you bet your ass I'd say the same exact reaction, because that was what was deserved. Sidenote: Is gyrlander supposed to sound like 'gear-lander' in my head?

Does this wall of text appease you now senpai Calix? Do I get a cookie yet?


preposting edit: FFS... of course now after I wrote this wall of text MattZed says something that would distance them from DarknessB. I need to adjust some shit later. I need breakfast.

Lol. You're sure I'm town?

[Calix]

I'll need to comb through Saiko's post in more detail, so this is my initial impression.

His reads have good face validity, they're well-balanced (not too many scum or town reads), he's made some game-solving points (MZ/ DB), he's explained his stance in a little bit more detail, he sounds legitimately frustrated and he seems to be reconsidering and re-evaluating in light of new evidence. (with the last comment about MZ)

unvote

I think he is one of those players that likes to info-dump their findings when they think they have found scum. That's NAI but I think that might explain how he's been posting this game.

[pisskop]

Hi can we lynch it now

[DarknessB]

Catching up now.

[Gyrlander]

While I was reading his last post I also felt like he was town. I usually trust my feelings, and right now I think we should try to focus on something else. If he's scum I still don't have the gameplay ability to realise that.

[Saik0Shinigami]

Lol. You're sure I'm town?

Eh, sure enough. There are too many above you in my totem pole to even go near you with the 'scum stick'. Until more data comes.... yes. I'm 'sure'.

[DarknessB]

I claim town, dont lynch me.


I need people to agree to this plan.


I am confident mafia will kill me tonight because they will fear kill me on how accurate I am. If I die tonight, lynch those 3.

I find these posts extremely bizarre and cryptic for a player of POD's experience level. If he really has some dynamite plan, why not devote the time to explain it well, especially given we don't have a good consensus right now? I also don't like the fact that he seems inclined to latch onto trains instead of making a scumread and push by himself. There's a question of whether he's been a lazy Town player this game or legitimately scummy. Almost reminds me of his play in Firebringer's BOG game where he ended up being scum and distanced himself from participating too much.

[DarknessB]

Your read on me is weak. I should be your #1 town read.


I skimmed through, then totally forgot what I just read.


This feel too scummy, yet you have no interaction with the other 3. I am fairly sure you are the neutral killer.


Everyone else is town. No questions asked.


I have no idea.

More fluff posts without anything to add other than we should blindly follow his plan without articulating WHY it is the correct course of action. Even admits to not knowing Gyrlander's role reveal...

[BananaCucho]

What on earth happened here? That's a lot of text to sift through

[DarknessB]

The reasons weren't bad. He was scummy as fuck. He knew it was scummy as fuck and even admitted he dig that hole himself.

But you didn't see it that way, you didn't see the blatant scumminess in front of you - why? You didn't say "I have a hard town read on him" but yoh implied it by defending him and fighting that train, and now you're going after people who were scum reading him legitimately. White knighting.

Honestly, I am very pro-Banana on this MattZed vs. Banana debate. Gyrlander admitted himself that his play was over the top scummy and I feel like MattZed is trying to introduce some revisionist history to make it seem very townsided. I just don't buy "it was actually townsided play the whole time!" narrative that MZ is attempting to push and I really don't understand why he's pushing it. I did the ISO as MZ requested and didn't see any of this pro-town play that he alluded to.

My most educated guess right now would be some sort of white knight play or pocketing Gyrlander given his votes. I.e. if MZ were in fact scum, having the Mayor believe in you could be a valuable cudgel to swing around for mislynches. That having been said, I don't have a strong enough feel on MZ to push for a lynch on him today vs. others who have been more scummy.

[Saik0Shinigami]

More fluff posts without anything to add other than we should blindly follow his plan without articulating WHY it is the correct course of action. Even admits to not knowing Gyrlander's role reveal...

Which is why my vote is on him currently. It's screams scum/scumshield to me. 'I'm going to vote this way no questions asked just because'. That's a cop out to never have to explain anything because we have to assume 'it's PoD being PoD'. Rather than what I think it is, a guise to float through some time before he can do what he wants.

[DarknessB]

What i also find interesting is how the AIVION train just suddenly disappeared. Its completely gone.
Also SJ was pocketing Gyr pretty hard, to me it felt like he just knew he was town.

I noticed this as well -- AIVION had quite a bit of pressure on him and it all seems to have vanished after the Gyrlander fiasco earlier. I have a decent scum read on AIVION given his fluff posting and continued reluctance to give any reads (other than jumping on the Grylander train out for survivalistic purposes) , but it could also be just noobish / reckless play. I'd suggest AIVION be one of the players we look at for a lynch today, along with POD and others.

[Calix]

Vote Count #3...or something

powerofdeath (1 [L-6]):
Saik0Shinigami
Saik0Shinigami (2 [L-5]):
pisskop, powerofdeath
BananaCucho (2 [L-5]):
MattZed, GameFreak
MattZed (1 [L-6]):
HeadShrinker

One day, I'll actually do something with these VCs.

[DarknessB]

saik0Shinigami


This is acceptable. Excalibur is acceptable, somebody pushing a case for more than the last 4 pages; that push is acceptable

to boot saiko is beliw the line

Honestly, Excalibur has made ONE post this game. The game rules require five posts per day and the day is almost over. Shifty is presumably going to replace him out tonight so it makes no sense to lynch an empty slot. We're not going to get any information out of that (no one has interacted with him) and it's essentially a naked gamble. We can address Excalibur when his replacement comes into the game tomorrow. I'd much rather lynch someone for scummy behavior than policy lynch just because. Policy lynches don't make as much sense in this 2 KPN game where we don't have a ton of margin of error. Plus, there has been enough scummy behavior by a number of players -- AIVION, POD, SJ, etc. to justify a legitimate lynch.

[Gyrlander]

AIVION hasn't said a world in a lot of time... I wonder where is he. I think we may should focus on players that are here now :)

[DarknessB]

Oh ey, surprise surprise. People fucking day one up again 0-o People need to learn the difference between looking scummy and being scummy.

I'm going to sip my tea whilst being god damn proud of myself for seeing past Gyr's "scummy look"

At-least this will help with VCA. Shame he revealed early though, no one was going to lynch this early.

You don't get town points for assuming that an insanely scummy player was actually Town. Any objective Town member would have assumed he was scum given his over the top behavior. Grylander's behavior was nothing like how a TPR, much less a Super TPR should act. Essentially, you are patting yourself on the back for the equivalent of the Fire Briner effect -- really not much to write home about. Also, how about some leads other than self-congratulations and English comments regarding the weather and tea? That would help us more so.

[Calix]

AIVION hasn't said a world in a lot of time... I wonder where is he. I think we may should focus on players that are here now :)

We only have 4 (?) hours left. There is NO guarantee that the people that we want to lynch will even turn up in that time due to time-zones. If we agree to collectively decide on someone, we are going to have to use their prior posts to determine wherever they are a good D1 lynch.

[DarknessB]

You don't get town points for assuming that an insanely scummy player was actually Town. Any objective Town member would have assumed he was scum given his over the top behavior. Grylander's behavior was nothing like how a TPR, much less a Super TPR should act. Essentially, you are patting yourself on the back for the equivalent of the Fire Briner effect -- really not much to write home about. Also, how about some leads other than self-congratulations and English comments regarding the weather and tea? That would help us more so.

For the uninformed, the Fire Briner effect was coined by Banana / Toadette and essentially means getting a read right based on luck or randomness as opposed to any actually accurate deduction on your part. Even in the best case, SJ probably felt bad because Grylander was being "bullied" and did his "must be Town" read. The big question was whether SJ actually knew he was Town because SJ is Mafia and was trying to get towncred either in terms of the "I told you so" guy after the mislynch or pocketing Grylander if he survived -- i.e. the "white knight" play that others have mentioned.

[Gyrlander]

Don't worry guys, If we fail the Materia will surely help us ;D

[DarknessB]

Just went back through the thread.

Continue to think MZ and darkness are very likely scum. Never really thought grylander was scum, hes just shit.

I see a lot of action on the saiko train but I cant figure out how anyone could substantiate this vote. Seems like he mentions old versions of this game and has questions about policy etc, I dont read this as selling his vote or being wishy-washy. Maybe getting a scummy town vibe but not a scum read from these actions.

My reasoning for MZ remains the same and my vote remains unchanged.

I am most suspicious of MattZed for the revisionist history of Grylander -- almost feels like he is trying to ingratiate himself to the Mayor for pocketing purposes. Even Gyrlander admitted that he played like shit to begin the game. Seems like an appeal to flattery to me, especially because no one else, not even Grylander, was portraying his play as solid contributory Town work. MattZed's theories aren't usually this far out of right field, which leads me to believe that he's doing this for some reason he's not saying (being informed / pocketing).

[DarknessB]

I was defending meta earlier with my read on AIVION.

My point was that some players on here use it too much. Instead of reading the player, they just go "they're acting differently, must be scum" without considering wherever the 'new play' is actually scum-motivated. I like to switch up my play-style sometimes and it gets annoying when you get auto-scumread for it JUST because you changed your play-style - it just encourages people to play the same way every game when that happens.

Meta is the cherry on the cake when it comes to reads. It's not the whole fucking cake.

Agreed -- I've started making the in-game point and then the meta point in reads (to the extent both exist). Meta has some use, but it shouldn't be the only reason you are pushing someone. People should constantly be evolving their playstyles or it's going to mean crappy players stay crappy and good players become predictable.

[Gyrlander]

Don't worry guys, If we fail the Materia will surely help us ;D

You may think that this was a random post, but I think we should discuss about how we should use the materia. It is a very valuable item.

[DarknessB]

Just like im 100% positive SJ plays like this to not get D1 lynched and he knows.

This seems to be consistent with his play in other games, yes. It hasn't always meant that he's been Town though. I feel like he also enjoys messing around a bit during Day 1 and that's the only time it's even reasonably acceptable. I don't think this means we should give him a pass though -- especially given the white knight / pocketing point that many of us have mentioned.

[Calix]

You may think that this was a random post, but I think we should discuss about how we should use the materia. It is a very valuable item.

In what sense? This sounds like directing TPR actions, which gives scum a potential roadmap and assumes that the players with the Materia are too incompetent to figure it out for themselves.

[DarknessB]

If your reaction to someone playing wrong is lynchig them, it shows you dont want people to improve. Just saying.

Can I point out that "someone playing wrong" often means that they are self-conscious about having rolled scum, don't know how to act, and are therefore making mistakes? It's much easier to play as Town because you essentially scumhunt. To play as scum, you have to scumhunt AND make shit up / push the lynches that you want. You essentially know information that you can't reveal and which would implicate you. No one was voting you because they thought you sucked -- they were voting you because your behavior was insanely scummy, in terms of emphasis on survivalism, overemphasis on game terminology, trying to bargain players not to vote you, trying to set up a town bloc with anyone who agreed with you, etc.

[DarknessB]

Saik0: I've pushed just about every player in this game at one point or another, MattZed included. I feel like you are doing the infamous pre-flip association thing and associating me with MattZed merely because we have both been high activity so far. There are a ton of things I disagree with MZ on: that Gyrlander was pro-town to begin this game, that Banana is a good lynch target. In fact, we don't agree on much other than preparing ISOs on players.

[DarknessB]

We only have 4 (?) hours left. There is NO guarantee that the people that we want to lynch will even turn up in that time due to time-zones. If we agree to collectively decide on someone, we are going to have to use their prior posts to determine wherever they are a good D1 lynch.

We don't have the luxury of waiting around for players to get back -- we need to start getting trains lined up. I'd advocate any of AIVION, POD, or SJ. MZ is fishy as fuck, but we don't have enough time to dive into that today at least. We can interrogate Excalibur's replacement tomorrow (no policy lynch please). Saik0 is finally contributing and seems like he's putting thought into the game so I'm not crazy about that lynch today.

[Gyrlander]

Can I point out that "someone playing wrong" often means that they are self-conscious about having rolled scum, don't know how to act, and are therefore making mistakes? It's much easier to play as Town because you essentially scumhunt. To play as scum, you have to scumhunt AND make shit up / push the lynches that you want. You essentially know information that you can't reveal and which would implicate you. No one was voting you because they thought you sucked -- they were voting you because your behavior was insanely scummy, in terms of emphasis on survivalism, overemphasis on game terminology, trying to bargain players not to vote you, trying to set up a town bloc with anyone who agreed with you, etc.

... I answered that because he wanted to lynch me for playing horrible, and he said that he didn't think I was scum.

[DarknessB]

You may think that this was a random post, but I think we should discuss about how we should use the materia. It is a very valuable item.

:facepalm:

It's pretty obvious how we should use a number of the Materia, but do you really want to get into it in terms of WIFOM?

[BananaCucho]

What happened to my vote?

MattZed

Honestly any other vote I would make at this point would be a sheep vote. This is the only vote I feel okay with atm

[DarknessB]

What happened to my vote?

MattZed

Honestly any other vote I would make at this point would be a sheep vote. This is the only vote I feel okay with atm

Votes were canceled when Grylander was revealed as the Mayor. Also, I honestly don't feel like we're getting a MattZed lynch today. I agree that he is fishy, but I think it's going to have to be something that we dig into tomorrow.

[DarknessB]

Anyway, finally caught up, so let me vote to get the wagons moving.

powerofdeath

[Calix]

What happened to my vote?

MattZed

Honestly any other vote I would make at this point would be a sheep vote. This is the only vote I feel okay with atm

Given how the day has gone, sheeping is the only way we are going to get a lynch off. If you're town-reading SJ, POD or AIVION, say so now because they look like the only players who most players suspect.

[Calix]

SuperJack

[Saik0Shinigami]

Saik0: I've pushed just about every player in this game at one point or another, MattZed included. I feel like you are doing the infamous pre-flip association thing and associating me with MattZed merely because we have both been high activity so far. There are a ton of things I disagree with MZ on: that Gyrlander was pro-town to begin this game, that Banana is a good lynch target. In fact, we don't agree on much other than preparing ISOs on players.

Prior to about 20 posts ago, you agreed on almost all major points including all but one ISO. It wasn't until I posted for a third time that I think there's something between you two that YOU finally spoke up about it and also started saying things DIRECTLY to MattZed. Unfortunately MattZed decided as I was posting that long as post to say something that hurts my arguments. So I need to redo some links to see how it rolls now. But I cannot accept your neg-MattZed remarks at this point because you can do it as cover knowing that I may be on to you since Calix wanted me to post my thoughts so much.

Having said all that. I am more inclined to believe that MattZed is the more scummy of you 2. But I cannot clear either of you based on your recent interactions. Just drop you lower on my lists for it.

[DarknessB]

Prior to about 20 posts ago, you agreed on almost all major points including all but one ISO. It wasn't until I posted for a third time that I think there's something between you two that YOU finally spoke up about it and also started saying things DIRECTLY to MattZed. Unfortunately MattZed decided as I was posting that long as post to say something that hurts my arguments. So I need to redo some links to see how it rolls now. But I cannot accept your neg-MattZed remarks at this point because you can do it as cover knowing that I may be on to you since Calix wanted me to post my thoughts so much.

Having said all that. I am more inclined to believe that MattZed is the more scummy of you 2. But I cannot clear either of you based on your recent interactions. Just drop you lower on my lists for it.

MattZed and I disagreed on the Grylander and Banana points before you posted your read wall -- that was last night before you had been prodded into elaborating further. I ask that you not fall into the pre-flip associations point merely because we had both been scumhunting at the same time.

[HeadShrinker]

We don't have the luxury of waiting around for players to get back -- we need to start getting trains lined up. I'd advocate any of AIVION, POD, or SJ. MZ is fishy as fuck, but we don't have enough time to dive into that today at least. We can interrogate Excalibur's replacement tomorrow (no policy lynch please). Saik0 is finally contributing and seems like he's putting thought into the game so I'm not crazy about that lynch today.

This is all i need to feel more confident in a MZ/darkness scum team.

[pisskop]

powerofdeath (2 [L-5]):
Saik0Shinigami, DarknessB
Saik0Shinigami (2 [L-5]):
pisskop, powerofdeath
BananaCucho (2 [L-5]):
MattZed, GameFreak
MattZed (2 [L-5]):
HeadShrinker, BananaCucho
SuperJack (1 [L-6]):
Calix


what the fuck guys

[BananaCucho]

Given how the day has gone, sheeping is the only way we are going to get a lynch off. If you're town-reading SJ, POD or AIVION, say so now because they look like the only players who most players suspect.

I could vote SJ as well if he gets more votes

[BananaCucho]

This is all i need to feel more confident in a MZ/darkness scum team.

Pre-flip associations are bad

Vote MZ and after he flips scum we'll explore who his buds are

[DarknessB]

This is all i need to feel more confident in a MZ/darkness scum team.

Get the votes on MZ and I will lynch him. Do you have anything to add other than sheeping Saik0?

[HeadShrinker]

Votes were canceled when Grylander was revealed as the Mayor. Also, I honestly don't feel like we're getting a MattZed lynch today. I agree that he is fishy, but I think it's going to have to be something that we dig into tomorrow.

And then this. Why cant we lynch mattzed? because you keep trying to derail any train going towards him. I hope others see this and vote one of the two of you out.

[Gyrlander]

We have 4 L-5 and 1 L-6. Guess I need to hear this place. Pod, please come and defend yourself as soon as possible.

powerofdeath

I was very reluctant of voting you just because you said "ALL HAIL THE MAYOR". Seriously, I love people that treat me like that, that's why I love Mayor. Anyway, I shall not allow my fee-fees interfere!

[DarknessB]

And then this. Why cant we lynch mattzed? because you keep trying to derail any train going towards him. I hope others see this and vote one of the two of you out.

Times like this I wish we had a tunnel icon... Dude, you are doing nothing to advocate your case other than to whine about me. How about you explain why MattZed is sketchy to help get the votes together? Try doing it without literally copying Saik0's thread too. :)

[Calix]

MattZed and I disagreed on the Grylander and Banana points before you posted your read wall -- that was last night before you had been prodded into elaborating further. I ask that you not fall into the pre-flip associations point merely because we had both been scumhunting at the same time.

I disagree on discouraging Saiko's pre-flip associations. While I disagree with them in general, I think it's a more central part of his play-style than it is for us sc2 plebs and shouldn't be stifled. He'll be more likely to make points that we may overlook.

[DarknessB]

And then this. Why cant we lynch mattzed? because you keep trying to derail any train going towards him. I hope others see this and vote one of the two of you out.

Like holy shit man -- we should lynch MattZed because Darkness [something]? You are terrible at this pushing thing. How about actually ADDRESSING WHY MATTZED IS SCUMMY?

[BananaCucho]

And then this. Why cant we lynch mattzed? because you keep trying to derail any train going towards him. I hope others see this and vote one of the two of you out.

Vote MZ


We have 4 L-5 and 1 L-6. Guess I need to hear this place. Pod, please come and defend yourself as soon as possible.

powerofdeath

I was very reluctant of voting you just because you said "ALL HAIL THE MAYOR". Seriously, I love people that treat me like that, that's why I love Mayor. Anyway, I shall not allow my fee-fees interfere!

Vote MZ and Darkness will switch

[Calix]

As an aside, I like how even the newer players on this site are picking up on LynchZed.

[HeadShrinker]

Times like this I wish we had a tunnel icon... Dude, you are doing nothing to advocate your case other than to whine about me. How about you explain why MattZed is sketchy to help get the votes together? Try doing it without literally copying Saik0's thread too. :)

Read any of my other posts, nothing has changed. Trying to make my argument seem invalid because it is clearly getting at you. This is not tunneling, that would be repeated questioning, I am stating you are scum. And I am confident in it. If you are closer to the lynch I will change my vote to you.

[DarknessB]

Read any of my other posts, nothing has changed. Trying to make my argument seem invalid because it is clearly getting at you. This is not tunneling, that would be repeated questioning, I am stating you are scum. And I am confident in it. If you are closer to the lynch I will change my vote to you.

You have no argument man -- point me to where you have laid out the scum case. You are sheeping Saik0's pre-flip association and otherwise avoiding any scumhunting.

[BananaCucho]

Oh shitz he is voting MZ

I'm so out of it today

[DarknessB]

Oh shitz he is voting MZ

I'm so out of it today

Yes, he's scumreading me while voting MZ. Basically he's the embodiment of a pre-flip association sheep. It's quite the combination of bad strategies put together. He also refuses to give any reads or scumhunt other than this pathetic tunnel.

[HeadShrinker]

You have no argument man -- point me to where you have laid out the scum case. You are sheeping Saik0's pre-flip association and otherwise avoiding any scumhunting.

Im not doing your work for you, ISO me, find my read lists and other associated posts, realize Ive been saying you two are scum for pages and pages long before saikos read list.

But a scum player would be responding like you, trying to break down my case by stating there isnt any case to begin with.

[HeadShrinker]

Oh shitz he is voting MZ

I'm so out of it today

I voted MZ on like page 2 or 3 and have only felt more strongly about it since that time.

[DarknessB]

Im not doing your work for you, ISO me, find my read lists and other associated posts, realize Ive been saying you two are scum for pages and pages long before saikos read list.

But a scum player would be responding like you, trying to break down my case by stating there isnt any case to begin with.

"I'm too lazy to state my case so I will kill time by asking you to weed through 33 pages of game text so I can further whittle down the clock."

[BananaCucho]

This is a mess

[Calix]

This is a mess

How so?

[HeadShrinker]

"I'm too lazy to state my case so I will kill time by asking you to weed through 33 pages of game text so I can further whittle down the clock."

Are you truly an idiot?

You are not defending yourself well, it is a superficial defense tactic. I am not being lazy, you are being thick. And as scum this would benefit you, dont address my previously stated points. I am not tunneling here, you just wont drop it because you know I am spot on.

[DarknessB]

Also, why would I ISO you? I just think you're terrible Town who is tunneling off of bad ideas. I don't particularly scum-read you. Unlike you, I've laid out my cases on each person who I would be comfortable lynching today.

[DarknessB]

Are you truly an idiot?

You are not defending yourself well, it is a superficial defense tactic. I am not being lazy, you are being thick. And as scum this would benefit you, dont address my previously stated points. I am not tunneling here, you just wont drop it because you know I am spot on.

"I am not being lazy, but let me refuse to state my arguments and continue with my pre-flip association scumreading."

IF YOU WANT SOME FUCKING POINTS ADDRESSED, HOW ABOUT LIFTING THEM OUT SCRUB. YOU ARE THE ONE ACCUSING ME AND TRYING TO GET MY TO CHANGE MY VOTE. Basically, you want me to do your work for you?

[Calix]

"I am not being lazy, but let me refuse to state my arguments and continue with my pre-flip association scumreading."

IF YOU WANT SOME FUCKING POINTS ADDRESSED, HOW ABOUT LIFTING THEM OUT SCRUB. YOU ARE THE ONE ACCUSING ME AND TRYING TO GET MY TO CHANGE MY VOTE. Basically, you want me to do your work for you?

:calix:

[HeadShrinker]

"I am not being lazy, but let me refuse to state my arguments and continue with my pre-flip association scumreading."

IF YOU WANT SOME FUCKING POINTS ADDRESSED, HOW ABOUT LIFTING THEM OUT SCRUB. YOU ARE THE ONE ACCUSING ME AND TRYING TO GET MY TO CHANGE MY VOTE. Basically, you want me to do your work for you?

I dont care how you vote, I want other people to vote for you or MZ.

[BananaCucho]

How so?

The votes are everywhere and nobody wants to compromise

Idk why POD is being voted when his shitry posts that I've read are him being a bad and lazy day 1 player like he always is (I haven't read the last few pages yet mind you)

I can compromise on SJ but he has 1 vote, and has 2 ans darkness was saying he'd be willing to vote MZ if he gets more votes but he's locked in a dumb argument with goku

[Gyrlander]

I'm so fucking lost right now. I don't even know what is happening. So you guys think Darkness and Mattzed are buddying? And Banana, you're voting Mattzed exactly because.... I just don't want to search you all over the thread again. And would like a short summary

[BananaCucho]

*And MZ has two... I think I need a nap

[Calix]

The votes are everywhere and nobody wants to compromise

Idk why POD is being voted when his shitry posts that I've read are him being a bad and lazy day 1 player like he always is (I haven't read the last few pages yet mind you)

I can compromise on SJ but he has 1 vote, and has 2 ans darkness was saying he'd be willing to vote MZ if he gets more votes but he's locked in a dumb argument with goku

So vote SJ. It's not like we can't switch votes before the deadline.

[DarknessB]

I dont care how you vote, I want other people to vote for you or MZ.

Oh really?


And then this. Why cant we lynch mattzed? because you keep trying to derail any train going towards him. I hope others see this and vote one of the two of you out.

Lyin' HeadShrinker -- spelled L-Y-I-N. He holds up the bible, he puts it down, and then he lies.

You are calling for everyone to vote MattZed -- don't give me that crap man.

[DarknessB]

The votes are everywhere and nobody wants to compromise

Idk why POD is being voted when his shitry posts that I've read are him being a bad and lazy day 1 player like he always is (I haven't read the last few pages yet mind you)

I can compromise on SJ but he has 1 vote, and has 2 ans darkness was saying he'd be willing to vote MZ if he gets more votes but he's locked in a dumb argument with goku

Yes, I am willing to vote MZ, as I said before.

[Calix]

Oh really?



Lyin' HeadShrinker -- spelled L-Y-I-N. He holds up the bible, he puts it down, and then he lies.

You are calling for everyone to vote MattZed -- don't give me that crap man.

He said that he wanted people to 'vote one of the two of you out' in the same post, lol.

[Saik0Shinigami]

MattZed and I disagreed on the Grylander and Banana points before you posted your read wall -- that was last night before you had been prodded into elaborating further. I ask that you not fall into the pre-flip associations point merely because we had both been scumhunting at the same time.

I will give you Gyrlander ISO disagreement. I've been giving you that one. But saying that there's better people to hunt than banana isn't disagreeing with MattZed. That's queueing him to hunt a different target with you. I'm not trying to associate anything to anyone. I've legitimately asked 3 times now to explain why you two were avoiding any direct confrontation between the two of you. Until the most recent request that was a wall of text when I was L-2(so everyone is staring at me), I got nothing back from either of you. Wouldn't you feel that's a bit odd? Honestly bring this up again for a second time even though I already said I don't directly suspect YOU anymore is fishy still. I still suspect MattZed of something.

Anyway, regardless of the issue, I no longer have this argument to make. MattZed broke it literally 2 minutes before I clicked post to initially put up that wall of text. I don't believe there's a direct link between you two, but I will not put away the entire situation since it went over 200+ posts like this. It will stay as a 'fishy thing that happened' that may be relevant again in the future.

[BananaCucho]

I'm so fucking lost right now. I don't even know what is happening. So you guys think Darkness and Mattzed are buddying? And Banana, you're voting Mattzed exactly because.... I just don't want to search you all over the thread again. And would like a short summary

I feel like either one or both of SJ/MZ white knighted you. MZ was more vocal about it defending you when you were acting scummy on purpose. With you intentionally being scummy it doesn't make sense to town read you and to then go back and say "Gyrlander wasn't acting scummy see!" Unless they knew your alignment (are informed since they are scum)

MZ wasore vocal about it hence my vote where its at. He scum reads me for scum reading your intentionally scummy play. It has me scratching my head if he's town

[DarknessB]

He said that he wanted people to 'vote one of the two of you out' in the same post, lol.

Then, he can feel free to vote me if he would like, instead this WIFOM9000 pre-flip scum team association theory of his. This is not the mod and he is not Toast reading all of the scum as of Day 1.

[DarknessB]

I feel like either one or both of SJ/MZ white knighted you. MZ was more vocal about it defending you when you were acting scummy on purpose. With you intentionally being scummy it doesn't make sense to town read you and to then go back and say "Gyrlander wasn't acting scummy see!" Unless they knew your alignment (are informed since they are scum)

MZ wasore vocal about it hence my vote where its at. He scum reads me for scum reading your intentionally scummy play. It has me scratching my head if he's town

Agreed that there was like a white knight play going on somewhere over there. Also, taking into account that Gyrlander seemed to be offended that players were voting him, a savvy scum would attempt to defend and pocket him. I.e. no offense, Gyrlander, but you are the type that would respond well to a white knighting attempt, as you did to SJ when he started defending you with all his language about joining forces, etc. I am comfortable voting either MZ or SJ for this reason.

[Saik0Shinigami]

I'm so fucking lost right now. I don't even know what is happening. So you guys think Darkness and Mattzed are buddying? And Banana, you're voting Mattzed exactly because.... I just don't want to search you all over the thread again. And would like a short summary

I had this thought several times and posted it to no answer... but at this point the way some things rolled out I no longer think it's important at this moment. The lack of talk about it made me think it more and more until MattZed posted something that didn't work with what I was thinking.

To me it's no longer a D1 topic thing. Might come back later though.

[BananaCucho]

I feel like either one or both of SJ/MZ white knighted you. MZ was more vocal about it defending you when you were acting scummy on purpose. With you intentionally being scummy it doesn't make sense to town read you and to then go back and say "Gyrlander wasn't acting scummy see!" Unless they knew your alignment (are informed since they are scum)

MZ wasore vocal about it hence my vote where its at. He scum reads me for scum reading your intentionally scummy play. It has me scratching my head if he's town

BTW Gyr, white knighting is when an informed scum will pish against a wagon / defend a player they know is town (in many cases likely to be lynched) so that they look good when that player flips town. Its a ploy I use all the time when I roll scum as people fall for it every time.

[Calix]

BTW Gyr, white knighting is when an informed scum will pish against a wagon / defend a player they know is town (in many cases likely to be lynched) so that they look good when that player flips town. Its a ploy I use all the time when I roll scum as people fall for it every time.

Yes, and SJ was the person who was smug about 'guessing' at what Gyrlander was doing. He was content to sit back and be complacent after he was 'proven' correct on his 'hunch' and completely ignored attempts at getting him to explain this.

MZ is the one doubling down on his read. SJ's using it to self-promote himself. Vote him.

[BananaCucho]

SuperJack

I am good with either

[DarknessB]

Sure, I'd go with SJ over POD for now. The white knight play looks a little more dangerous / manipulative than just being lazy like POD

SuperJack

Also, makes the trains more interesting for Grylander to figure out where to push.

[pisskop]

vote for matt and Ill join bc

[Saik0Shinigami]

I don't think PoD should be overlooked, but I could be convinced to vote MattZed if it comes to that. Nothing about SJ says Scum like PoD and MattZed does in my opinion, so you will not likely see me sway that way unless someone can bring something to me that I've missed or haven't thought of yet.

[Gyrlander]

I know, still, I don't think Mattzed is scum. Independently of white knighting things. Going to have dinner.

[Calix]

vote for matt and Ill join bc

Nah mate. Vote NOW, not later.

[Calix]

Vote Count 4.0

powerofdeath (3 [L-4]):
Saik0Shinigami, Gyrlander (Mayor)
Saik0Shinigami (2 [L-5]):
pisskop, powerofdeath
BananaCucho (2 [L-5]):
MattZed, GameFreak
MattZed (1 [L-6]):
HeadShrinker
SuperJack (3 [L-4]):
Calix, BananaCucho, DarknessB

[DarknessB]

I don't think PoD should be overlooked, but I could be convinced to vote MattZed if it comes to that. Nothing about SJ says Scum like PoD and MattZed does in my opinion, so you will not likely see me sway that way unless someone can bring something to me that I've missed or haven't thought of yet.

SuperJack had a strong townread on Gyrlander for no apparent reason when he was massively flailing under a pile of scum slips and scummy behavior. His entire contribution has been to defend Grylander and then try to give himself Town credit for having called out that he was in fact Town. Of course, a Mafia SuperJack would know that Grylander was either Town or Neutral.

Also, SuperJack's play could be considered a white knight attempt -- whereby if Grylander was lynched, the Town would assume SuperJack was more likely Town because he pushed back against it. If Grylander wasn't lynched, then Grylander would trust SuperJack (on account of SuperJack having saved him) -- essentially the pocketing example.

[HeadShrinker]

Vote Count 4.0

powerofdeath (3 [L-4]):
Saik0Shinigami, Gyrlander (Mayor)
Saik0Shinigami (2 [L-5]):
pisskop, powerofdeath
BananaCucho (2 [L-5]):
MattZed, GameFreak
MattZed (1 [L-6]):
HeadShrinker
SuperJack (3 [L-4]):
Calix, BananaCucho, DarknessB

Thanks for going through and posting this.

[Calix]

Thanks for going through and posting this.

There's actually a vote counter at the top of the page. I am just posting these to keep track of how they change over time. I am going to dig through the chat before EOD/ during N1 and compile them into 1 post :p

[DarknessB]

Vote Count 4.0

powerofdeath (3 [L-4]):
Saik0Shinigami, Gyrlander (Mayor)
Saik0Shinigami (2 [L-5]):
pisskop, powerofdeath
BananaCucho (2 [L-5]):
MattZed, GameFreak
MattZed (1 [L-6]):
HeadShrinker
SuperJack (3 [L-4]):
Calix, BananaCucho, DarknessB

Realistically, the Saik0 and Banana lynches aren't happening. The three viable lynch candidates today are POD, MZ, or SJ, which we should figure out. I would also add AIVION to that list, but it's pretty late to start a fourth train.

[Calix]

Well we have myself, DB, Banana, HeadShrinker, Saiko, Gyrlander around - that's 6 votes that we can swing around already.

[Calix]

Literally nobody should be trotting out the 'we don't have time to get votes' excuse now that you can see that, lmao

[Gyrlander]

Well we have myself, DB, Banana, HeadShrinker, Saiko, Gyrlander around - that's 6 votes that we can swing around already.

7 :P

[DarknessB]

Well we have myself, DB, Banana, HeadShrinker, Saiko, Gyrlander around - that's 6 votes that we can swing around already.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but:


Calix has voted SJ and I believe would vote the other two.
I would vote any of the three.
Banana has voted MZ and SJ -- not sure her view on POD.
HeadShrinker seems intent on MZ or me.
Saik0 seems more keen on MZ or maybe POD, but not on SJ.
Gyrlander seems like he would vote POD, but reluctant on MZ or SJ.

In other words, it's a mess.

[Calix]

7 :P

I rest my case.

[Calix]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but:


Calix has voted SJ and I believe would vote the other two.
I would vote any of the three.
Banana has voted MZ and SJ -- not sure her view on POD.
HeadShrinker seems intent on MZ or me.
Saik0 seems more keen on MZ or maybe POD, but not on SJ.
Gyrlander seems like he would vote POD, but reluctant on MZ or SJ.

In other words, it's a mess.

I've said multiple times that I'm not voting for MZ.

[DarknessB]

I've said multiple times that I'm not voting for MZ.

Noted. Unless someone changes their views, I don't think we have a consensus with everyone's current stance.

[Gyrlander]

Do you guys if SJ is here and not posting on the thread? I'm starting to get a little angry about SaperJuck not saying nothing relevant even if he gets voted. I will push him if he doesnt say anything in 15 mins

[Calix]

Do you guys if SJ is here and not posting on the thread? I'm starting to get a little angry about SaperJuck not saying nothing relevant even if he gets voted. I will push him if he doesnt say anything in 15 mins

Push him NOW. Don't impose time limits - you will just waste time.

[DarknessB]

Do you guys if SJ is here and not posting on the thread? I'm starting to get a little angry about SaperJuck not saying nothing relevant even if he gets voted. I will push him if he doesnt say anything in 15 mins

For reference, the official mangling of his name is SuperJake or ScrubJack. I would support that vote switch. We can leave him at L-2 if he seems like the most likely candidate in case he wants to make a defense / role claim before day's end. We should be ready to pull the trigger though because time is starting to running lowish.

[Gyrlander]

Push him NOW. Don't impose time limits - you will just waste time.

I can't say no if you talk me like that <3

Superjack

But don't vote him until we all agree or I'll get pissed and fucking lynch you

[pisskop]

ffs.

SJ

[DarknessB]

ffs.

SJ

We just said leave him at L-2 to avoid a quick hammer...

[Calix]

I wasn't even aware that pisstake was still online, lol

That attempt at getting him to L-1 though.

[Gyrlander]

We just said leave him at L-2 to avoid a quick hammer...

I'm sure he wanted to troll me. Next time I'm parking my vote on him

[DarknessB]

I wasn't even aware that pisstake was still online, lol

That attempt at getting him to L-1 though.

If he wants to park his vote and let someone else cast later, that's fine with me too. I can unvote. What we don't want is for the needed 2 votes to be AFK and then no lynch due to shitty coordination.

[pisskop]

Are you guiz just stupid?

he is l-2

[pisskop]

Cant fix morons who cant manage wagons

[Calix]

I'll be around at EOD, so if anyone won't be, they can vote in my place.

[DarknessB]

Are you guiz just stupid?

he is l-2

The point was not to put him closer than that, notwithstanding your fake vote. That's why people thought your (fake) vote was odd.

[pisskop]

Fake vote?

[pisskop]

So have your lost your shit for real or are you you trying too hard to spread some shade

[DarknessB]

Fake vote?

The player's name is SuperJack, not "SJ". Your vote did not register for that reason.

[pisskop]

ffs

[Gyrlander]

I'll actually unvote so ppl who want to vote him and leave can do so. I Am 2 people and I'm not leaving until day ends.

[Saik0Shinigami]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but:


Calix has voted SJ and I believe would vote the other two.
I would vote any of the three.
Banana has voted MZ and SJ -- not sure her view on POD.
HeadShrinker seems intent on MZ or me.
Saik0 seems more keen on MZ or maybe POD, but not on SJ.
Gyrlander seems like he would vote POD, but reluctant on MZ or SJ.

In other words, it's a mess.

I'm more for PoD right now, can be swayed to MZ. I'm not set for SJ... You made a point, but I'm not sure I quite see it as a sound choice.

SJ has been rp'ing 99% of this from how I read it... I would like a serious post before night. if that doesn't happen I could be persuaded to vote SJ but that would be a hard sell on my end.

[Gyrlander]

Spamming SJ's Skype isn't allowed, no?

[Calix]

Spamming SJ's Skype isn't allowed, no?

That's OGC.

[DarknessB]

Spamming SJ's Skype isn't allowed, no?

Ping players is a host thing to do, not another player thing to do. Can ask Shifty if you want.

[Calix]

Ping players is a host thing to do, not another player thing to do. Can ask Shifty if you want.

SJ hasn't been inactive though. He's just not around. Players do have lives outside of the game.

[DarknessB]

SJ hasn't been inactive though. He's just not around. Players do have lives outside of the game.

He hasn't been inactive by the very minimal 5 post standard that we've all hit but Excalibur, but he hasn't been particularly active this game either.

[pisskop]

Its too late to be trying to get claims or whatever you guys arr trying to do. idk why its such a common thing to do to try to play chicken with the deadline

[MattZed]

Let me be more explicit:

I want to 1v1 BananaCucho right here, right now. Lynch her, or lynch me.


Also your logic about 'informative' flips is bullshit. Any town lynch = little information because you cannot form associations as easily. ANY scum lynch gives us information as to who voted, distanced, potentially bussed, buddied, etc. You should NOT lynch on Day 1 just to get information and your focus on this is not only flawed but scummy. (you talk about clearing yourself if she's scum? Why is that a reason important enough for you to mention? You're already forming pre-flip associations?)
What you've said here is absolutely false; a town flip from Banana or myself would not be "little information." Regardless of whether or not you agree with me on my Banana scumread, if either of us flipped town, your opinion of the other would change. That's because you have information. If I flip town, then you know Banana spent the whole day painting town as scum and refusing to consider all other options. Notice how even now she's refusing to consider non-me votes other than for the purpose of getting a lynch off. If Banana flips town, then her words become that of a confirmed town, and I get automatic HUGE suspicion leading her lynch train this hard.

You either believe that Banana and I are both town, or that at least one of us isn't. Lynch both of us, the one you find scummier first, and you've either killed two town or you killed at least one scum. But the thing is, do you really believe you'd be killing two town?

[DarknessB]

Its too late to be trying to get claims or whatever you guys arr trying to do. idk why its such a common thing to do to try to play chicken with the deadline

Might as well cast your vote for SuperJack then. Then we'd need one more locked in and Gyrlander can hammer at any time.

[Calix]

Let me be more explicit:

I want to 1v1 BananaCucho right here, right now. Lynch her, or lynch me.


What you've said here is absolutely false; a town flip from Banana or myself would not be "little information." Regardless of whether or not you agree with me on my Banana scumread, if either of us flipped town, your opinion of the other would change. That's because you have information. If I flip town, then you know Banana spent the whole day painting town as scum and refusing to consider all other options. Notice how even now she's refusing to consider non-me votes other than for the purpose of getting a lynch off. If Banana flips town, then her words become that of a confirmed town, and I get automatic HUGE suspicion leading her lynch train this hard.

You either believe that Banana and I are both town, or that at least one of us isn't. Lynch both of us, the one you find scummier first, and you've either killed two town or you killed at least one scum. But the thing is, do you really believe you'd be killing two town?

That assumes that your interactions with Banana are V/W and not V/V or W/W. You're trying the push the former but I see no reason why I should think that.

Tunneling is a thing, as you know perfectly well. It's not as set in stone as you're making it out to be. Stop pushing a narrative based on pre-flip associations as a reason to lynch someone.

[pisskop]

Im really unhappy with a lynch on a sj when theres simply more promising lynches that provide more useful analysis and the players have shown even less use than SJ.

[pisskop]

superjack

[Calix]

Im really unhappy with a lynch on a sj when theres simply more promising lynches that provide more useful analysis and the players have shown even less use than SJ.

You're the person who said that SJ isn't the sort of player that you'd want at LYLO - what's with this change of heart?

[MattZed]

Saik0Shinigami, I haven't trusted DarknessB for a long time. The reason I asked him to ISO Banana is because I was already suspicious of Banana (note: I had already voted her then) and wanted to see if he was truly on her side or just wasn't reading Gyrlander too carefully. When he gave Banana's ISO with a Null/Town read, I stopped trusting him at all. But I haven't been kicking up dirt on his ISO because he's not my main scumread right now; BananaCucho is. He would only be guilty by association, and thus it only makes sense to go after him once my scumread actually flips scum.

[DarknessB]

That assumes that your interactions with Banana are V/W and not V/V or W/W. You're trying the push the former but I see no reason why I should think that.

Tunneling is a thing, as you know perfectly well. It's not as set in stone as you're making it out to be. Stop pushing a narrative based on pre-flip associations as a reason to lynch someone.

Personally, I feel like this whole thing is bad blood carrying over from the Matrix game given the similar early game dynamics between the two. Given where the votes stand, I doubt it's going to be end up being a 1v1 between MattZed and Banana. I also don't like the fact that MattZed refuses to give other scum reads among the group currently being considered: SJ and POD.

[DarknessB]

@Saik0Shinigami (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php?u=28214) , I haven't trusted DarknessB for a long time. The reason I asked him to ISO Banana is because I was already suspicious of Banana (note: I had already voted her then) and wanted to see if he was truly on her side or just wasn't reading Gyrlander too carefully. When he gave Banana's ISO with a Null/Town read, I stopped trusting him at all. But I haven't been kicking up dirt on his ISO because he's not my main scumread right now; BananaCucho is. He would only be guilty by association, and thus it only makes sense to go after him once my scumread actually flips scum.

Maybe it's not the right time for it, but you never responded to my early game ISO of Gyrlander where I went through the first 200 posts of the game and didn't find anything Town-leaning or contributory.

[Calix]

MattZed/ Banana is 100% something that should be considered TOMORROW.

[DarknessB]

Also, this has officially become the pre-flip associate Darkness game. Depending on who you ask, I'm scum with MattZed, am I scum with Banana, or maybe someone has a third option they'd like to raise? I'm also always the second person in the group with the primary scumread being on the other person. Seriously, guys?

:facepalm:

[MattZed]

That assumes that your interactions with Banana are V/W and not V/V or W/W. You're trying the push the former but I see no reason why I should think that.

Tunneling is a thing, as you know perfectly well. It's not as set in stone as you're making it out to be. Stop pushing a narrative based on pre-flip associations as a reason to lynch someone.
Misrep. I have been pushing Banana's lynch because she's repeatedly distorted the truth in a manner that reveals she's more intent on painting people as scum than on trying to figure out people's alignment. She's scum-motivated, and when someone with this much effort into the game displays that kind of scum-motivation, I try to kill them.

I've been bringing up the point about the benefits of an informative lynch because, even if someone were too lazy to read Banana and felt she had been contributing, I feel it can be objectively agreed that lynching either of us would be informative.

Yes, BananaCucho and I, as far as anyone else knows, could be SvS or TvT. But SvS is just as good as TvS as you still lynch at least one scum, and I'm saying that anyone who's paying attention to our interactions should doubt TvT.

[pisskop]

You're the person who said that SJ isn't the sort of player that you'd want at LYLO - what's with this change of heart?

eww

[pisskop]

Wanna try using some actual logic with that bold statement, and explain how 'not in lylo' became 'lynch today'?

[pisskop]

What a gross shift

[Calix]

Misrep. I have been pushing Banana's lynch because she's repeatedly distorted the truth in a manner that reveals she's more intent on painting people as scum than on trying to figure out people's alignment. She's scum-motivated, and when someone with this much effort into the game displays that kind of scum-motivation, I try to kill them.

I've been bringing up the point about the benefits of an informative lynch because, even if someone were too lazy to read Banana and felt she had been contributing, I feel it can be objectively agreed that lynching either of us would be informative.

Yes, BananaCucho and I, as far as anyone else knows, could be SvS or TvT. But SvS is just as good as TvS as you still lynch at least one scum, and I'm saying that anyone who's paying attention to our interactions should doubt TvT.

You're trying to 1v1 and you're ignoring all other trains because of this tunnel when dealing with it in a more considered manner on DAY 2 is a far better move. Not going for it.

According to your logic about associations, almost everyone is an informative lynch. Banana isn't special just because you picked her.

One question.

WHY THE FUCK DO YOU KEEP BRINGING UP THE POSSIBILITY OF YOU BEING SCUM?

What the literal fuck? No town would be casting doubt on THEIR OWN ALIGNMENT like you're doing by even considering that.

[MattZed]

Maybe it's not the right time for it, but you never responded to my early game ISO of Gyrlander where I went through the first 200 posts of the game and didn't find anything Town-leaning or contributory.
I basically put it in my locker of "future evidence to consider when BananaCucho is dead." You're either trying to justify BananaCucho's response to Gyrlander to make her seem more towny, or you sincerely agreed with her from the beginning. Just as you accused me of hindsight bias, I can consider you to have had hindsight bias in not wanting to admit that you may have misread Gyrlander's early game. I don't have enough information on me to make a hard opinion of you from that ISO, but I do disagree with the tone of it.

[DarknessB]

WHY THE FUCK DO YOU KEEP BRINGING UP THE POSSIBILITY OF YOU BEING SCUM?

What the literal fuck? No town would be casting doubt on THEIR OWN ALIGNMENT like you're doing by even considering that.

Thought this was weird as well. On the one hand, we have all these players basically spending posts to blast out that they are Town (i.e. saying it vs. showing it). On the other hand, we have MattZed here, with "I could hypothetically be scum". At least we're getting some odd new meta in this game...

[Calix]

Wanna try using some actual logic with that bold statement, and explain how 'not in lylo' became 'lynch today'?

So you're implying that you wanted him lynched on a future day? If so, how is that any better...?

Town is going to reach LYLO very quickly if scum floats, you know.

[MattZed]

You're trying to 1v1 and you're ignoring all other trains because of this tunnel when dealing with it in a more considered manner on DAY 2 is a far better move. Not going for it.

According to your logic about associations, almost everyone is an informative lynch. Banana isn't special just because you picked her.

One question.

WHY THE FUCK DO YOU KEEP BRINGING UP THE POSSIBILITY OF YOU BEING SCUM?

What the literal fuck? No town would be casting doubt on THEIR OWN ALIGNMENT like you're doing by even considering that.
The highlighted part is simply false. Think about how anyone flipping town right now would change your opinion of the game. Me or Banana flipping town would affect your opinion a LOT more than, say, PoD or Excalibur flipping town.

I grow tired of your playing dense. I'm not casting doubt on my own alignment; I'm pointing out how anyone who's not me or Banana should be seeing this right now.

While I think my play has certainly given me good reason to be townread, but that's not the point I'm making here: Banana needs to die.

[Gyrlander]

Just wanted to say that due to late interactions and so, I'm starting to find piskoof scummy too. A thing I wanted to tell before I die tonight.

And Banana isn't here right now, so I would consider focusing on other people, MattZed

[pisskop]

We have a jailer, theres no reason to assume youd die

[MattZed]

Just wanted to say that due to late interactions and so, I'm starting to find piskoof scummy too. A thing I wanted to tell before I die tonight.

And Banana isn't here right now, so I would consider focusing on other people, MattZed
Gyrlander, we don't need to vote people who are here right now. We're past the point of pressuring people into making a defense. It's time for someone to die, and people don't need to be present to die. There is no further reaction I need from Banana.

[pisskop]

Yea, can we stop being indecisive nimblies and vote?

[Calix]

The highlighted part is simply false. Think about how anyone flipping town right now would change your opinion of the game. Me or Banana flipping town would affect your opinion a LOT more than, say, PoD or Excalibur flipping town.

I grow tired of your playing dense. I'm not casting doubt on my own alignment; I'm pointing out how anyone who's not me or Banana should be seeing this right now.

While I think my play has certainly given me good reason to be townread, but that's not the point I'm making here: Banana needs to die.

Nah mate. If we policy-lynched, we can analyse the motivations of the players on that train, see if they used the lynch as an excuse to push away from someone else that was being pressured, etc. Even a seemingly 'random' lynch can be revealing, ESPECIALLY if a scum is policy-lynched. Your argument that we should lynch someone to get information doesn't make sense when every lynch will reveal something; that's the secondary aim with lynching.

Nobody should be posting shit like "if I was scum" and pushing themselves being a scum possibility. It's day one - the only thing that town has right now is the knowledge that they are town. That is it. And you're throwing that away?

[DarknessB]

We have a jailer, theres no reason to assume youd die

There's a possible Jailor -- we have no idea if an actual one rolled.

[pisskop]

somebody needs to sit me down and explain the setup then. in normal people english

[Gyrlander]

We have a jailer, theres no reason to assume youd die

How the fuck would you know we have a jailor?

--------------------

I'm not sure as Banana lynch, I'll re-read his posts.

[pisskop]

These are 'employee' role possibilities?

OoO:
1. Heidegger jails
2. Jailer/architect/night chats open.
3. Yuffie hides
4. Heal Materia
5. Reno/Aeris roleblock/Contain Materia
6. Manipulate Materia
7. Hojo heals/Restore Materia/Cover Materia
8. Steal Materia
9. Red XIII frames
10. Night Kills
11. Tifa hands out suit
12. Investigatives investigate simultaneously/Sense Materia
13. Cloud remembers role

Whats ooo mean then

[pisskop]

How the fuck would you know we have a jailor?

--------------------

I'm not sure as Banana lynch, I'll re-read his posts.

Shut up. youve turned a potentially good role into fodder

[Calix]

These are 'employee' role possibilities?

OoO:
1. Heidegger jails
2. Jailer/architect/night chats open.
3. Yuffie hides
4. Heal Materia
5. Reno/Aeris roleblock/Contain Materia
6. Manipulate Materia
7. Hojo heals/Restore Materia/Cover Materia
8. Steal Materia
9. Red XIII frames
10. Night Kills
11. Tifa hands out suit
12. Investigatives investigate simultaneously/Sense Materia
13. Cloud remembers role

Whats ooo mean then

Order of Operations.

It's the equivalent of the NAR, only it's not guaranteed to be in the same order as that.

[DarknessB]

somebody needs to sit me down and explain the setup then. in normal people english

Turk/Shinra Executive means any role under either of those categories could roll. Those are our TPRs sans Rufus (the Mayor). We have 3 TPRs, which could be any of those roles (under Turks or Shina Executive). We have no idea of the exact composition however.

[pisskop]

ahh.

And also ahh. OoO is a fishface

[Gyrlander]

These are 'employee' role possibilities?

OoO:
1. Heidegger jails
2. Jailer/architect/night chats open.
3. Yuffie hides
4. Heal Materia
5. Reno/Aeris roleblock/Contain Materia
6. Manipulate Materia
7. Hojo heals/Restore Materia/Cover Materia
8. Steal Materia
9. Red XIII frames
10. Night Kills
11. Tifa hands out suit
12. Investigatives investigate simultaneously/Sense Materia
13. Cloud remembers role

Whats ooo mean then

This means in what order will Night actions take action. :D

[DarknessB]

This means in what order will Night actions take action. :D

Town point for Gyrlander? See how much easier it is when you are host confirmed? :cheesy:

[pisskop]

can we end the day now? I want to jail a person

[Gyrlander]

Town point for Gyrlander? See how much easier it is when you are host confirmed? :cheesy:

I would like to not be confirmed. I've faith on surviving at least 1 night, but I'm not sure about it. Let's hope I get a Materia and use it on me ROFL

[MattZed]

Nah mate. If we policy-lynched, we can analyse the motivations of the players on that train, see if they used the lynch as an excuse to push away from someone else that was being pressured, etc. Even a seemingly 'random' lynch can be revealing, ESPECIALLY if a scum is policy-lynched. Your argument that we should lynch someone to get information doesn't make sense when every lynch will reveal something; that's the secondary aim with lynching.

Nobody should be posting shit like "if I was scum" and pushing themselves being a scum possibility. It's day one - the only thing that town has right now is the knowledge that they are town. That is it. And you're throwing that away?
No, you're still wrong. Some lynches are much more informative than others. You're presenting a false equivalence, and you need to stop insisting on it.

Again, you're making squabbles and overstatements about something that shouldn't even be registering on a town's scumdar. In what way does analyzing a 3rd-person perspective even remotely indicate alignment?

For the record, I've been scumreading Calix for a while now. She persists in pushing this false equivalence and drawing attention to tangential matters to discredit me. She would rather join a nearly random lynch than make the effort to take a side on issues that are actually appearing.

[DarknessB]

For the record, I've been scumreading Calix for a while now. She persists in pushing this false equivalence and drawing attention to tangential matters to discredit me. She would rather join a nearly random lynch than make the effort to take a side on issues that are actually appearing.

MZ, given how little time we have left in the day, why don't you give us your reads / scum possibilities? I really don't think this 1v1 thing you have proposed is going to happen, and if you are in fact Town, it's not helping us arrive at a lynch target. In other words, can you try to be productive in light of our current votes please?

[Calix]

No, you're still wrong. Some lynches are much more informative than others. You're presenting a false equivalence, and you need to stop insisting on it.

Again, you're making squabbles and overstatements about something that shouldn't even be registering on a town's scumdar. In what way does analyzing a 3rd-person perspective even remotely indicate alignment?

For the record, I've been scumreading Calix for a while now. She persists in pushing this false equivalence and drawing attention to tangential matters to discredit me. She would rather join a nearly random lynch than make the effort to take a side on issues that are actually appearing.

That's not a false equivalence, try again.

Pointing out scummy shit that you've been doing, such as doubt-casting your own alignment and trying to control the lynches, is a scum tell now? Bitch please. And then you completely disregard SJ's scummy behaviour and discredit the wagon as 'nearly random' even though you're trying to push an 'informative' lynch as a priority over lynching scum.

I've been campaigning AGAINST your lynch for the best part of the evening because you're rushing into a Banana lynch without considering the other possibilities. Your 'scum read' isn't going to make me go along with your shitty narrative. Deal with it.