Lysergic
May 26th, 2011, 10:50 PM
Does anyone else find the Framer to be a terrible role to get as Mafia?
What I mean by this is that the Framer is one of the few roles in the game (the only other that comes to mind is Witch) that has no "alternative" on the town side. If investigated, the Framer will ALWAYS be a Framer, and CANNOT lie about it. He cannot even feign being framed since he shows up with a unique message (same with the witch).
Take this example:
A game starts. The Mafia carefully plans their game, discovering the Sheriff, killing or blocking the Doctors guarding him, and then killing the Sheriff. There is an unknown Investigator left. After losing a member (or two, depending on Mafia size), the Mafia is cut down to a role with deniability (Mafioso can claim Vig, GF can claim Survivor or Citizen depending on settings, Consort can claim investigator) and the Framer. By luck, the Investigator finds the Framer and confronts him.
All remaining town will lynch the Framer. There is absolutely no defense that the Framer can use. No matter what, he immediately dies upon being discovered, with no lie able to help him hide.
It just seems horribly underpowered. Framer and Witch are the ONLY roles that don't have deniability in the face of an investigation. Even with deniability, most accused get lynched by a bloodthirsty and frightened town. But as Framer, you are almost guaranteed to die from the start of the game.
Anyone else think this sucks? I personally hate getting Framer ALMOST as much as I hate getting Doctor (Doctor isn't OP, I just hate it - Framer is OP, AND I hate it).
Anyways, for consideration, I think DR should pick a role being added in the upcoming patch and give them the same investigated description as the Framer (good with his hands, I believe?). That is all.
EDIT:
Oh, I just realized, Spy and Mason both are unique Investigator descriptions, but do not suffer from the same problem since they are town roles. However, Spy seems like a good target for a change to be the "opposite" of Framer.
What I mean by this is that the Framer is one of the few roles in the game (the only other that comes to mind is Witch) that has no "alternative" on the town side. If investigated, the Framer will ALWAYS be a Framer, and CANNOT lie about it. He cannot even feign being framed since he shows up with a unique message (same with the witch).
Take this example:
A game starts. The Mafia carefully plans their game, discovering the Sheriff, killing or blocking the Doctors guarding him, and then killing the Sheriff. There is an unknown Investigator left. After losing a member (or two, depending on Mafia size), the Mafia is cut down to a role with deniability (Mafioso can claim Vig, GF can claim Survivor or Citizen depending on settings, Consort can claim investigator) and the Framer. By luck, the Investigator finds the Framer and confronts him.
All remaining town will lynch the Framer. There is absolutely no defense that the Framer can use. No matter what, he immediately dies upon being discovered, with no lie able to help him hide.
It just seems horribly underpowered. Framer and Witch are the ONLY roles that don't have deniability in the face of an investigation. Even with deniability, most accused get lynched by a bloodthirsty and frightened town. But as Framer, you are almost guaranteed to die from the start of the game.
Anyone else think this sucks? I personally hate getting Framer ALMOST as much as I hate getting Doctor (Doctor isn't OP, I just hate it - Framer is OP, AND I hate it).
Anyways, for consideration, I think DR should pick a role being added in the upcoming patch and give them the same investigated description as the Framer (good with his hands, I believe?). That is all.
EDIT:
Oh, I just realized, Spy and Mason both are unique Investigator descriptions, but do not suffer from the same problem since they are town roles. However, Spy seems like a good target for a change to be the "opposite" of Framer.