For Those who Have Died, Lists

[Deathfire123]

Deathfire, Sinner, I'm rooting for hamslyx, and philie. Hoping they can do their best.

Post who you think everyone is

[Ubernox]

Shit, died first night - and in my first FM game too. Oh well. I'm still rooting for Eternity/humanity.

[Ubernox]

That sucks :/

It's what I get for trying to contribute too much.

[Deathfire123]

My money is that Ambient is Tiberius because he just isn't civil towards me

[Deathfire123]

OH MY GOD SOMEONE KILL NICK NOW! HE IS SO ANNOYING

[Deathfire123]

No one wants to hear my whining

Also, Brennenberg is acting very Jack-ish, I like it when its not directed at me. Provides for interesting entertainment.

I also think I know all of Rome

[Ubernox]

"As for Deathfire.. well.. I don't think that one needs much explanation."


Who?

Also, let's hear your speculation on the Romans then.

[Deathfire123]

I know for a fact, that the first legionnaire is someone who has yet to speak, what else is a perfect strategy for a bodyguard then to never attract attention for yourself. That's why out of the 4 people who have not spoken I'm guessing jaczac or hamslyx is the legionnaire..... more to come...

Also, that was Ambient

[Deathfire123]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Goon is Lucifer

[Ubernox]

What message did you get when you died? I'm curious as to what DR's description of Hell is...

[Deathfire123]

You awoke in a cold cave, muffled screams coming from below you. In front of you sat a winged man. Your soul recognized him as the Devil himself.

[Ubernox]

Ouch..... sucks dude. Who were you rooting for in terms of factions? Hoping you would be redeemed by Jesus?

[Ubernox]

DR implied somewhere that he didn't have any favourites or manual choosing in terms of roles except with Jesus and Lucifer, which heavily implies that two of our well-known FM veterans are Jesus and Lucifer. That's narrowing it down, isn't it? You're probably right about Goon being the big D Man himself.

Personally I'm hoping eternity/humanity/romans win. Anyone who argues that rome will be an inherent enemy of eternity has a hidden agenda IMO....

[Deathfire123]

My personal opinion is, I'm becoming more and more fond of Nick now that I'm dead. Also, Nick is NOT Roman, at least not yet.

Best Players:
Ganondorf
Dust
Raiden

All of these guys are thinking things through and aren't letting the bullies bully them. They are smart and know what they're doing

Best Newcomer:
TheWaaagh

He is surprisingly smart and intuitive. I look forward to good things coming from him

Worst Players:
Bandwagoners and Lurkers - They aren't even playing, really
FalseTruth - Unless his strategy is to die and alienate everyone, he's playing pretty poorly, I expected better :(
Jack/Brennenberg - He's not playing. Not even at all. He's FalseTruth coattail riding. I know Jack hasn't played well after FM5, but this is his worst performance as of yet. (And when Jack reads this, no its not just because I hate you, you really are playing horribly)
Yayap - Not much I can say, he's lost his touch, his performance is sloppy, and not as menacing as it used to be.

[Ubernox]

Yayap's big speech about joining sin was pretty stupid. Humanity is obliged to fight sin anyway, and siding with sin would mean that only few survived. Much better chances for humanity if they try to win with eternity. Such madness... I'm really starting to regret that I'm already dead :(

[Zane]

I was hoping for Zane.

He's obviously the best player, that's why he was taken out first.

[Deathfire123]

Zane played magnificently :)

Also, I really hope I get to host my Death Note FM.

[Ubernox]

That Zane guy sure was something.

[TheWaaagh]

Best Newcomer:
TheWaaagh

He is surprisingly smart and intuitive. I look forward to good things coming from him

Thanks! Now I feel like a dick for pushing your execution when you were in jail though :(.

[Ubernox]

Bro, that sucks. This your first forum mafia? Hard luck.

Methinks that sin has made a mistake here by killing a Roman....

[TheWaaagh]

Bro, that sucks. This your first forum mafia? Hard luck.

Methinks that sin has made a mistake here by killing a Roman....

Scumbag Lucifer:

-Says Rome has nothing to fear if they offer up Tiberius
-Kills a Roman to deliver the message.

And yeah it is my first forum mafia, I guess these guys just have no appreciation for a good ole' WAAAAAAAAAGH.

Ugh, has anyone else looked at the day chat? Nick wants people to vote him so he'll give answers. Just once I'd like to see someone explain their actions without acting like a god damn puppeteer.

[Ubernox]

It has suddenly become a lot more complicated... This was my first FM too. I guess the pros are killing off the promising newcomers to get rid of any unknown competition.

[Ubernox]

It's getting way too hard to keep up with day chat.... anyone have any idea as to what's going on?

[Ubernox]

Siding with Sin is both:

1. Stupid, as chances are you are going to be one of the people to die to fill Sin's quota of souls.

2. Against the rules, as Humanity is obliged to try and fight against sin due killing sin being their victory condition.

[Ubernox]

If Nick doesn't get lynched he's gonna get assassinated.

[Ubernox]

MOD QUESTION: Is Jesus susceptible to Envy's mind-control power? Methinks that he shouldn't be.

[Brennenburg]

Jack/Brennenberg - He's not playing. Not even at all. He's FalseTruth coattail riding. I know Jack hasn't played well after FM5, but this is his worst performance as of yet. (And when Jack reads this, no its not just because I hate you, you really are playing horribly)
Nice, considering he was following my lead.

[Deathfire123]

Nice, considering he was following my lead.

he really wasn't. you were just agreeing with everything falsetruth was saying, AND the one thing that could have gotten you somewhere *you're supposed finding of the big 3* you never revealed. So honestly, you didn't play well. You claimed sinner was the worst thing you could do, and you weren't even a sinner. I should know, I did the same thing, that's why Tiberius killed me. Also, I DO agree with you on one thing, whoever Tiberius is, is an ass, and doesn't even talk much with his prisoners (he talked a bit more with me than with you, but still).

[Brennenburg]

he really wasn't. you were just agreeing with everything falsetruth was saying, AND the one thing that could have gotten you somewhere *you're supposed finding of the big 3* you never revealed. So honestly, you didn't play well. You claimed sinner was the worst thing you could do, and you weren't even a sinner. I should know, I did the same thing, that's why Tiberius killed me. Also, I DO agree with you on one thing, whoever Tiberius is, is an ass, and doesn't even talk much with his prisoners (he talked a bit more with me than with you, but still).
Well first of all, he never said a word to me. I had to create the thread myself.

Second of all, False just pulled the same strategy I originally came up with during day 1 during day 2; Claiming to know Lucifer(and probably actually knowing them), to convince Lucifer not to kill him due to Last Will exposure. The problem I found with that is I couldn't rely on assassins not killing me to provoke the same exposure, as you'll note someone else brought up during day 2.

And then I had the moral dilemna over whether or not I wanted to actively be recruited by a faction who could then be blamed of using my "tainted" knowledge to overcome their adversity. Yayap was correct in saying that I was PM'd by two seperate players, and while what they said was basically harmless, the mere fact that they PM'd me basically forced me into a game of neutral survival. If I said pretty much anything about anyone and was right about it, I knew it would be a fucking political nightmare for DR and myself. Because people ALWAYS assume the worst. And before you say it was my fault for playing anonymously; No, it wasn't. Don't blame the rape victim for being raped. People should have the self-control to keep their mouth shut.

But I didn't want to ruin the game for them and possibly risk upsetting the balance of power so instead I reformulated my idea of just claiming I knew who Lucifer and Jesus was and that they should leave me alone because if they didn't my knowledge would shatter the power balance, and instead decided to claim Sinner as it would discourage recruitment from pretty much every party and dissuade Lucifer from killing me in case he was hitting a sealed demon AND would not require me to threaten Lucifer in my last will which would dissuade assassins. I thought they would be happy just leaving me alone so I could sit on the sideline and wallow but apparently Yayap is just a major douche and decided to take advantage of my situation to further his own goals. So I decided to side with Eternity after False and Claw defended me from a lynch started solely by Yayap.

Not to mention what I did had the bonus side-effect of what I described in my last will. Which False, Claw, Raiden, and now Philie have picked up on thanks to me.

So, if Tiberius had just fucking communicated with me, he would have known I wasn't a sinner. All I wanted was him to offer me an act of good faith in exchange for everything I knew as well as the solution to the entire game I was playing, as well as the easiest path to uniting three factions against Sin by doing so. And he responded to my offer by saying absolutely nothing and deciding to execute me as soon as night started before I said anything at all.

[Deathfire123]

Well first of all, he never said a word to me. I had to create the thread myself.

I was kind of locked out of the jail for 2/3 of the night due to a mishap with DR, so I think he was kind of forced to create the thread.


Second of all, False just pulled the same strategy I originally came up with during day 1 during day 2; Claiming to know Lucifer(and probably actually knowing them), to convince Lucifer not to kill him due to Last Will exposure. The problem I found with that is I couldn't rely on assassins not killing me to provoke the same exposure, as you'll note someone else brought up during day 2.

And then I had the moral dilemna over whether or not I wanted to actively be recruited by a faction who could then be blamed of using my "tainted" knowledge to overcome their adversity. Yayap was correct in saying that I was PM'd by two seperate players, and while what they said was basically harmless, the mere fact that they PM'd me basically forced me into a game of neutral survival. If I said pretty much anything about anyone and was right about it, I knew it would be a fucking political nightmare for DR and myself. Because people ALWAYS assume the worst. And before you say it was my fault for playing anonymously; No, it wasn't. Don't blame the rape victim for being raped. People should have the self-control to keep their mouth shut.

Agree with pretty much everything here.


But I didn't want to ruin the game for them and possibly risk upsetting the balance of power so instead I reformulated my idea of just claiming I knew who Lucifer and Jesus was and that they should leave me alone because if they didn't my knowledge would shatter the power balance, and instead decided to claim Sinner as it would discourage recruitment from pretty much every party and dissuade Lucifer from killing me in case he was hitting a sealed demon AND would not require me to threaten Lucifer in my last will which would dissuade assassins. I thought they would be happy just leaving me alone so I could sit on the sideline and wallow but apparently Yayap is just a major douche and decided to take advantage of my situation to further his own goals. So I decided to side with Eternity after False and Claw defended me from a lynch started solely by Yayap.

Agree about Yayap


Not to mention what I did had the bonus side-effect of what I described in my last will. Which False, Claw, Raiden, and now Philie have picked up on thanks to me.

So, if Tiberius had just fucking communicated with me, he would have known I wasn't a sinner. All I wanted was him to offer me an act of good faith in exchange for everything I knew as well as the solution to the entire game I was playing, as well as the easiest path to uniting three factions against Sin by doing so. And he responded to my offer by saying absolutely nothing and deciding to execute me as soon as night started before I said anything at all.

Yep, Tiberius pretty much stopped talking to me once I gave him my role.

[TheWaaagh]

@Brennenburg:

If you really wanted Tiberius to talk to you, you probably shouldn't have acted like such a dick. It's almost like being arrogant all the time isn't advantageous when working in a team game... I know that the Rome chat was pretty unanimous about just straight up executing you. If you really wanted him to know you weren't a sinner, you should have said that FIRST before making your Pilate demands, in fact when in your in a position like that you shouldn't be making demands at all.

And honestly, you can make up whatever excuses you want to, but at the end of the day you were a citizen that forced town to almost lynch you, and then had the jailor waste his night jailing and executing you - in a word, you trolled. If your only metagame knowledge was two people PMing you "harmless" stuff, then you should've just ignored it and played the game like a good sport.

[Deathfire123]

`I agree with both sides. I never made any demands to Tiberius but he still made no offers for my survival whatsoever.

[Brennenburg]

Also, revealing any of them would not have helped in any way shape or form. Can't reveal Tiberius period cuz it'll just harm Eternity which is probably why he's going to side with Sin because Eternity can't do shit about it.

Can't reveal Jesus cuz Eternity will fucking kill me.

Can't reveal Lucifer because no one will believe me even if I tried.

Let's test it though.
Raiden is Jesus, Yayap is Lucifer, and I thought Philie was Tiberius until I was jailed.
Believe me?


If you really wanted Tiberius to talk to you, you probably shouldn't have acted like such a dick. It's almost like being arrogant all the time isn't advantageous when working in a team game... I know that the Rome chat was pretty unanimous about just straight up executing you. If you really wanted him to know you weren't a sinner, you should have said that FIRST before making your Pilate demands, in fact when in your in a position like that you shouldn't be making demands at all.

And honestly, you can make up whatever excuses you want to, but at the end of the day you were a citizen that forced town to almost lynch you, and then had the jailor waste his night jailing and executing you - in a word, you trolled. If your only metagame knowledge was two people PMing you "harmless" stuff, then you should've just ignored it and played the game like a good sport.
Seriously dude? Why the fuck would I give away Eternity's entire game to Rome without a single act of compensation? That's how negotiations work. You can "make up whatever excuses you want to" but the fact of the matter is Tiberius intended to execute me from the first moment he was able to that night. I did not trust Rome in the slightest and his actions convinced me of nothing to the contrary.

If I have to die to keep Rome from getting an unwarranted edge with NO GUARANTEE that Rome intends to side with Eternity, I will die. As I have. I WANTED TO DISCUSS. I WANTED TO CREATE AN ALLIANCE AND HELP EVERYONE WIN THE GAME. BUT IM NOT GOING TO THROW ALL MY CARDS ONTO THE TABLE TO A JAILOR WHO ISNT EVEN APART OF MY OWN FACTION.

But you guys basically pub jailor'd me by choosing to execute as soon as you could click the button and never said a word afterwards. So that's on you, not me.

[TheWaaagh]

No point in replying with quote, but I agree with your Jesus/Lucifer analysis. Tiberius actually slipped a couple times so I'm surprised you thought it was Phillie, since you are, after all, so damn good at this game.

Being a dick, believe it or not, has its disadvantages, and maybe now you will see that for future games. Wanting to execute you was on us, but being an arrogant prick was on you. I'm sure you're a nice guy in real life, but in Forum Mafia, to quote Community, "you're the worst."

@ Deathfire:

Tiberius might not have talked to you that much, and I'm sure I would've played jailor differently, but he actually did start a thread to spare you the first day. He had this convoluted plan where he would have the next night's death-note claim we found Lucifer and then you would have to confirm it in the day chat. The problem though, is that you claimed sinner. So I posted a wall of text on why we needed you dead. So, yeah, sorry about that.

[Brennenburg]

Again, I know for A FACT, that I was not executed because I was "being a dick".

So don't pretend that I was.

DR was gloating to me that I was going to be executed pretty much immediately into the beginning of night.

[TheWaaagh]

Actually, I can't wait for you to be able to read the Rome chat. Tiberius made a post where he copied and pasted your demands and then asked "What do you wanna do about this?".

Me and Pilate flat out say "he's an arrogant bastard. kill him."

So yeah, that's exactly why you were killed. DR was probably gloating because anyone could see how pissed I was getting in the day chat, and I was Roman. The only people that would've saved your ass would be FalseTruth or Clawtrocity being Roman. Which I will say they're not, in case that wasn't obvious.

[Brennenburg]

[1:06:16 PM] Dark Revenant: but yes, tiberius made up his mind before he jailed you
[1:07:41 PM] Dark Revenant: made up his mind
[1:07:44 PM] Dark Revenant: before jailing you
[1:07:48 PM] Dark Revenant: trust me on that

I'm sorry to break your heart but it doesn't matter what Tiberius "claimed", he wanted ME dead, specifically, nothing to do with my demands.
Which while somewhat aggressive, were basically required in order to consider any alliance between Rome and Eternity because that is the only role that can be used as leverage should you decide to betray us.

[TheWaaagh]

[1:06:16 PM]
I'm sorry to break your heart but it doesn't matter what Tiberius "claimed", he wanted ME dead, specifically, nothing to do with my demands.

So... you were killed for being a dick. If you really can't see that then I guess we're done here.

In other news, I'm really disappointed I was killed before I could find out FalseTruth's role.

[Brennenburg]

So... you were killed for being a dick. If you really can't see that then I guess we're done here.

In other news, I'm really disappointed I was killed before I could find out FalseTruth's role.
So what you're saying is that "Being a dick" is both synonymous with my demands which was your original argument, and also with a general sense.

I'm glad we agree that your motivations for killing me were awful and that you really did pub jail me. I reported someone yesterday for pulling pretty much the same shit on me as you just did except my name was making fun of him. And he lost us the game. My fault, or his?

[Deathfire123]

ICK! Also, you were right Jack, I still don't believe Yayap is Lucifer. Raiden and Capitalier are BOTH Etenity >>This I'm positive. I'm pretty sure Raiden is an angel though. Philie is most likely a commoner, or sinner. She's not Roman (I don't think) One sec let me pull up my list of romans.

[TheWaaagh]

So what you're saying is that "Being a dick" is both synonymous with my demands which was your original argument, and also with a general sense.

I'm glad we agree that your motivations for killing me were awful and that you really did pub jail me. I reported someone yesterday for pulling pretty much the same shit on me as you just did except my name was making fun of him. And he lost us the game. My fault, or his?

First of all I said being a dick all the time, not just with your demands, but hey that's not what we're really talking about anyway.

Honestly? If I'm George (the Jailor), and you're George Sucks Dicks (the Doctor), and I jail you and claim doctor, I have a decision. Just like any other game of Mafia, the decision is to execute you or not execute you. Now, as much as we can argue that people should be cold and rational when playing this game, I can't deny that personal bias will creep up from time to time. I know I've killed people before out of bias, against my better judgment, based on their names. Sometimes it tells me something about their character. And since intuition is a factor in the decision making process, it's only reasonable to assume that having an insulting name will affect my intuition (whether in a positive or negative direction) when it comes to dealing with you.

Now, is that "right"? Of course not. And if I kill you as jailor and you were innocent, well hey, that's my fault right? Well not exactly, because you also went into that game picking a fight. You wanted to insult him, you wanted to make fun of him, you wanted to hurt him. Now, I understand that executing people without much proof is a dick move, but then so is going into a game to insult someone, no?

In that respect, you can't really get mad at the outcome that you designed for yourself. He lost the game because he killed you over an insulting name, something that you picked.

I remember Deathfire's "Who's your forum mafia opposite?" thread, where you said your opposite was Yayap, because you were all about strategy as compared to him. And while you might have these fanciful and borderline insane strategies that could work very well, you have to remember something else: games aren't just about figuring out your next move, they're also about figuring out how your opponents will react.

Imagine a game of Risk if you will, where there are 4 people in a free for all. I'm not sure if you've ever played Risk, but suffice it to say there's a board with armies and there's all sorts of dice rolling shenanigans, that's not important. What is important though is the fact that there's more than one person. Now suppose you get attacked, and you are pushed into the defensive. You suddenly have an idea though, that would kill your attacker, and leave you and the other two players to divide up the land and gain more than the sporadic fights that have erupted all game.

The problem though, is that all game you've been bragging about how you've already figured out the perfect method to winning, and you scoff at the other players for not being as smart as you. Those simpletons haven't figured out how to win, and when they ask you for tips you tell them you "aren't going to hold their hand". So, when it finally comes time to unleash your master plan, you watch in horror as all three players ignore it and just kill you to get you out of the game as quickly as possible simply because they can't stand to hear you speak one more word.

I don't know if I made my point clear enough, or if you even really read it. I'll admit, I can get a bit carried away with analogies. But what I'm trying to say is that in that scenario above, you brought this outcome upon yourself with your abrasive personality. No one wants to listen to you, or even play the game with you, because of the way you conduct yourself. It's like a lesson in how to lose friends and alienate people. And I think that is your fault. If you're going to be a master strategist, you need to learn how to be a master manipulator as well, which requires you to not be a dick to the people you need later on in the game. That's all I'm saying.

You can respond to this and get the last word in, but I'm done at this point. So you can consider yourself to have "won" this debate after this post, but I'd like to steer the conversation back to hypothesizing after your next post, if you don't mind.

With that in mind, is anyone else curious if that guy from day II really is a rabbi? If he is, he must have sold his soul to Lucifer to not be targeted last night. Then again, I guess having a set amount of charges kind of reduces his threat level.

[Deathfire123]

oh Fragos, you simple fool, why did you roleclaim....silly silly Fragos

[TheWaaagh]

Wow, I missed it the first time that Brennenburg had to create his own jail thread? I knew Tiberius was a slow buffalo, but I had no idea he was that slow lol.

[TheWaaagh]

Actually, Fragos claiming Seer is a surprisingly good role claim. I hadn't realized how useful that would be to every faction, including Sin. Although it would be hilarious if that same n1 assassin killed him for the lulz.

Bonus points if suicidaln00b is in fact that assassin.

[Deathfire123]

No, its not a good roleclaim, its the same thing he did in FM7, and has the same impact it did in FM7, none.

Edit: Woops I thought Seer was Lookout, nevermind

[Brennenburg]

The reason I believe Raiden is Jesus is because Eternity's #1 goal is for their angels to NEVER be found. The chance of him being a disciple n1 recruit is exceptionally low because he purposely slanted his analysis of the game pro eternity(Saying that humanity HAD to side with Eternity in order to win).

That really only leaves one role left.

But the thing is, saying any of this would not have helped me in the slightest, two of the three roles I thought I knew would hurt me by revealing and I tried to drum up some support that Yayap was evil and it was pretty much ignored despite how well-written it was.

[Brennenburg]

If it's any compensation to you Deathfire, I thought that your attempt to barter demon identities for freedom was quite ballsy and somewhat ingenious, assuming you didn't actually intend to do it.

And I feel Zack is playing with his head, too.

[Deathfire123]

I figured it was the only thing I could offer once I claimed Sinner

[TheWaaagh]

Personally, I'd love it if the roles were actually switched this whole time: Raiden is Lucifer and Yayap is Jesus. How crazy would that role reversal be? I don't think my brain could handle those wrinkles.

Also, you know Deathfire we almost let you go the first day based on your original response. When you said you couldn't be of any use until Jesus visited you, I said you were claiming Judas. That's why Jailor asked you to clarify, but then you said sinner :|.

[Deathfire123]

I thought claiming Judas was like suicide. Plus I'm super honest when I'm not playing scum!

[Brennenburg]

The chances of them being reversed is almost nothing. In fact, I'm not sure Yayap is Lucifer anymore either. I think it's more likely that he is Beezlebub which would explain his shift from lurking in day 1 to accusations and allegiance pledging with little to no reason of doing so.

Whatever he is though, I am certain he is scum.

[TheWaaagh]

One other thing, while most of you think I am probably something scum or evil based on my role history. I can tell you that I am not, I would ask all you killers and this and that to leave me alone as I would like to see this game into the later stages.

Lmao Goon, because that strategy worked so well the last time someone used it.

[Deathfire123]

btw waaagh, you gave it away. thanks for letting me know for sure auckmid is tiberius

[TheWaaagh]

btw waaagh, you gave it away. thanks for letting me know for sure auckmid is tiberius

Lol yeah well guy didn't give me a bodyguard. Did you catch it the way I did? He used "are" instead of "our" in one of his normal posts. I facepalmed at that. I even told him when he wrote the deathnote up that if he was going to use it he'd better spellcheck his regular posts. I guess I should've said "grammarcheck" instead.

[Deathfire123]

Also I have a sneaking suspicion I know who Pilate is......is it fred?

[Brennenburg]

If that really is the case, Auckmid isn't long for this world. There are people in this game who WILL notice, with time, the signs. They are far too obvious once you put the role to the name not to.

Especially this bit during day 2:

The thing which is bothering me is that we have to make it clear that it is not okay to claim sinner. If it becomes that way, then whenever someone discovers that they are a sealed deamon, then can just say "Hey guys. I'm a sinner, but don't bother about me! Hint hint Lucifer". Much of you logic is based on Sin only being able to get a new recruit once every 2 days. Based on the way things on looking, it could turn into Sin being able to unseal a deamon every night.
It runs far too parallel to what is occuring in Rome right now.

Hmm. Killing me was an even graver mistake then he might realize. Interesting.

[TheWaaagh]

Also I have a sneaking suspicion I know who Pilate is......is it fred?

Okay, I have to know how the fuck you figured that out.

[Deathfire123]

"Nick wants sin to be aligned with Rome and the rest of the town. The sin have basically openly waged war on romans by attacking one of their members. Why does this post of yours not make sense, nick?"

This post gave it away for me. I analyzed ever other post fred made, and they all were fred trying to avoid being connected to Rome in the slightest, but he slipped here.

[TheWaaagh]

Ah yeah, well now I'm really glad we killed you night one :). You were right about hamslyx btw, but I'm pretty sure he's not lurking but straight AFK. Apparently Tiberius got permission to just order who he protects each night. He only gave minimal input night one, and then didn't say a single thing night two.

Also, if you wanna have fun guessing the other member of Rome, know this: Fred sniped them night one on the off chance that they were a commoner. And he was right lol.

[Deathfire123]

I have no clue who you're other Tax Collector is so I'm just gonna make a wild guess and say Elixir/Perotto, he just seems far too neutral to be Eternity or Sin. Also, he seems to be very distant from people I know to be humanity.

Sniped night 1? Hmmm, that's.....hmmmmm......Wild Guess here: Sumi..... she seemed to change N1 - N2, but this is completely baseless

[TheWaaagh]

Well you just took the fun out of that guessing game lol. You got every single person right. And that's why you're dead now.

[Deathfire123]

I KNEW IT! I'm psychic!

[Brennenburg]

I would personally guess Ambient or vorn.

They both share the same general philosophy as Rome. And Fred would probably recruit them.

[Brennenburg]

Well, nevermind then. Why Fred would recruit who we think to be Narks is beyond me.

[Ubernox]

Holy shit, I'm guessing this is all commonplace in FM. How you managed to deduce who Pilate was is amazing to me. And hell, I didn't even know that Narks was in this FM.

[Brennenburg]

This game will end shortly in favor of Eternity, assuming Raiden trusts False enough to out himself.

More news at 11.

[Deathfire123]

If False came to the same conclusion as you, then this game is far from over

[Brennenburg]

He saw something I missed because I was too focused on Yayap at the time. So this game is over, sorry to break it to you.

[Deathfire123]

Nope, Raiden just ruined your plans.

Also, did Sumi literally just admit that she was Roman?

[Brennenburg]

Yes.

And it all rests on Claw and False to work out their differences now, I suppose.

[TheWaaagh]

Wtf does being a feminist have to do with anything? Sumi..... *sigh*

[Deathfire123]

わかりません

I don't know

[TheWaaagh]

I love how Nick keeps talking about me even though I can't defend myself. Hopefully Jupiter will send me back as the avatar of Justice so I can lay the smack down. Then again, knowing Jupiter he'd probably just send me back as a bull to be the avatar of rape. It's a sad day to be a dead guy.

[Ubernox]

Indeed.

[TheWaaagh]

Indeed.

Lol, at least on the bright side you'll still be a wild card for the next FM.

[Deathfire123]

So Waaagh, who do you think is the best player so far, in terms of like, seeing through people and finding out who they are.

[TheWaaagh]

So Waaagh, who do you think is the best player so far, in terms of like, seeing through people and finding out who they are.

Well, I'm still in awe over Fred's ability to snipe-recruit Sumi night one, and he was pretty level-headed in the night chats. So he's the best Roman in my book.

In terms of humanity/eternity, I think Raiden's play style has been the most effective, since he's more interested in gaining facts than just spouting random bullshit. I believe that FalseTruth and Claw are humanity aligned, but I think the way they've been dominating the day chat hasn't really been effective, unless of course they're somehow hoping to win/survive with Sin. Or they're sin themselves, in which case they've been doing a good job of spreading chaos so far.

If Yayap really is Sin then I love his crazy "i'm evil" strategy, and if he's not but he's using it to cover a big breakdown of the game later, that's good too. If it's none of the above then I don't know what the fuck he's been doing.

Other than that no one else has really stood out for me, although I think Goonswarm's jackie chan response to the unprovoked rabbi claim was probably the best post of the game so far.

And it sucks because Oops did show remarkable depth when he went through my last will, the only problem is that I hadn't intended it to be unclear about Nick. I think it's because when I requested a bodyguard in the night chat, and got shot down, I kind of came to the conclusion that I was being too paranoid and I didn't put as much thought into the wording of my last will. That was my mistake but still when Oops said that I was like "Oh fuck, that makes so much sense I probably look like a scum asshole now".

On that note, Ambient saw my last will for what it is so that's good, but he hasn't really been too active this game so I can't really say he's been playing amazing.

Another funny side story, is the beginning of day 2. My first post was a code, with the first word "So = Sinner" when I investigated dust night 1. And then Illidan called me on it because I fucked up the font when quoting Rev's post. When he said "code much?" I was like fuck, this guy knows there's a code but for an entirely wrong reason lol. Luckily nothing much ever came of that though.

So yeah, how about you? Has your opinion of the game changed at all over the course of this day?

[Deathfire123]

Im not too fond of the neutral majority and a lot of vets not really playing "philie being a prime example"

I like the mechanics, and I'm really routing for Sin, even though I lose if Sin wins.

False and Nick are the most annoying people in this game and need to die.

Best Player atm:
vornskr

[TheWaaagh]

Im not too fond of the neutral majority and a lot of vets not really playing "philie being a prime example"

I like the mechanics, and I'm really routing for Sin, even though I lose if Sin wins.

False and Nick are the most annoying people in this game and need to die.

Best Player atm:
vornskr

Yeah, I think the problem is the lack of anonymity. It makes the vets dominate the day chat and only focus on one another's actions without looking at the big picture. Add to that a game that isn't the traditional mafia, and everything just turns into chaos. Also people have been throwing around the term "wifom" waaaaaaaaaay too much this game. I mean it's like every other post at this point: open a fucking dictionary already, jesus.

And I completely agree, Nick's been annoying me since day one. Especially with his persistence on referring to "Rome" as "Roman", even when the sentence doesn't make sense. It looks like he'll get lynched today though, so that's one person to cross off my book of grudges. Then again, it looked like FalseTruth was going to get lynched yesterday and that fell through.

Vornskr has been a pretty good player too, although I swear if he's Lucifer I'm going to be so pissed. The only reason I feel like he might be is because his last post on day 2 was quoting me and saying "I completely sympathize". Then the fluff DR sent with my death notification was that "Lucifer felt bad killing you, but he knew you were dangerous" or something along those lines.

[Deathfire123]

Yeah, I think the problem is the lack of anonymity. It makes the vets dominate the day chat and only focus on one another's actions without looking at the big picture. Add to that a game that isn't the traditional mafia, and everything just turns into chaos. Also people have been throwing around the term "wifom" waaaaaaaaaay too much this game. I mean it's like every other post at this point: open a fucking dictionary already, jesus.

And I completely agree, Nick's been annoying me since day one. Especially with his persistence on referring to "Rome" as "Roman", even when the sentence doesn't make sense. It looks like he'll get lynched today though, so that's one person to cross off my book of grudges. Then again, it looked like FalseTruth was going to get lynched yesterday and that fell through.

Vornskr has been a pretty good player too, although I swear if he's Lucifer I'm going to be so pissed. The only reason I feel like he might be is because his last post on day 2 was quoting me and saying "I completely sympathize". Then the fluff DR sent with my death notification was that "Lucifer felt bad killing you, but he knew you were dangerous" or something along those lines.

Holy Shit, if vornskr is actually Lucifer I'm going to shit bricks! One Sec, I'll make a role list thread

[TheWaaagh]

Don't you fucking dare waste another lynch.

And with that, Illidan became my hero.

[Forum Mafia GM]

MOD QUESTION: Is Jesus susceptible to Envy's mind-control power? Methinks that he shouldn't be.

Yes.

[Ubernox]

False had better be online... now is the time for him reveal Lucifer.

[TheWaaagh]

Well FalseTruth is on, so I guess it's time to get ready for another mammoth post.

Edit: Just found something pretty interesting when looking over day two that I thought might be worth sharing to coincide with my theory about vornskr.

Check this out from Yayap (in reference to vornskr):


You are very wise my son. I might join you later, I have a few targets to get rid of.
So far, The Entire Roman Empire for being "neutral", Jaczac for being in this game with his bro, Illidan for speaking, Brennenburg for claiming to be neutral sinner, Nick for being my nemesis and friend of the empire, Raiden for surviving night 1, Philie for suspicious buddying..

As you can see, I'll be busy for a few days.

This works with Yayap's history of being the "oracle" and deducing vornskr as Lucifer. And it would make sense Yayap being a sinner, but not knowing if he's a demon, given the way he's been playing.

Just thought it was something interesting to ramble about while I wait for False to drop his own Lucifer suspect.

[TheWaaagh]

FalseTruth really let me down with his Lucifer suspect. Claw is Jesus and Lucifer? Is anyone actually playing this game???

[Deathfire123]

philie isnt playing, Illidan isn't playing, Zack isn't playing, False isnt playing, Oops isnt playing, Goon isnt playing, Claw is flopping around like a fish out of water, Yayap is acting like a third grade bully. None of these people are playing. vorn is playing, Raiden is playing.

[Ubernox]

We really needed anonymity on this one. The vets are just dominating everything with their layers of wifom and lying. It's almost like trolling, except you have to analyse and cross-examine every single post they make.

[TheWaaagh]

We really needed anonymity on this one. The vets are just dominating everything with their layers of wifom and lying. It's almost like trolling, except you have to analyse and cross-examine every single post they make.

Completely agree. And I'm glad Claw finally admitted that he was just being a commoner troll. Which is essentially how everyone's acting.

Edit: From the looks of things, Nick is admitting that he too was a commoner troll. What a surprise.

[Deathfire123]

OH MY GOD THIS TOWN IS SO FUCKING APATHETIC this is so boring to read

[TheWaaagh]

Totally agree. I just wish they'd blow through these days quicker so the next one could start and I could go back to dying night two lol.

[Deathfire123]

Any other guesses on who's who?

[TheWaaagh]

Nah, this game was interesting the first couple of days when I thought people were actually being useful or were playing corresponding to their roles (i.e Nick, Claw, Brennenburg, False). Now, I have to go with Claw's hypothesis that everyone's just being a troll which makes it impossible/pointless to even try guessing at this point.

[Ubernox]

Best quotes:


LoL yeah next unsealed Demon is a op version of the Cult leader culting any faction to Sin

NARKS SO OP!


I wonder how Rev is going to work this into the night RP intro. "The entire town turned into a bunch of faggots and started telepathically projecting images of madness."

[Ubernox]

Suicidalnoob for president.

[TheWaaagh]

Lunavium nailed it:


First of all Nick, remember your last will is messaged to the GM to be published upon your death, so if you have anything for your technical last will remember to PM it :)

Also, this is a strategic lynch. We'll gain much more as a Town by lynching you than a no lynch, as you are a very divisive element. There are strategic ways to create discussion and try to get answers, but even if you are a Commoner you've set Humanity back. Diverting attention from a teammate, creating a debate which can provide an opportunity for scum to slip up... your strategy was fundamentally flawed, if it was a strategy. I appreciate someone willing to play the game and inject some cool flavour in it, but if you just claim Roman/pro-Sin etc. unprovoked to start the game then you have to accept the consequences.

I see no reason to besmirch this lynch by saying it was created by 'mob mentality'. We have enough unknown factors in this game, and until we get some evidence we're safest lynching someone who we know is detrimental to further day chat.

You have contributed little to this game except reminding everyone of win conditions and how they should play their role. I won't be analyzing anything about this lynch, I honestly believe at this moment that even if you were part of the Romans/Eternity/Sin that your teammates would lynch you unanimously.

[Brennenburg]

vorn isn't Lucifer.

[Ubernox]

FalseTruth is full of shit. I'm not entirely sure how people managed to miss how he dodged the question on who Lucifer was, and now he's just going to lie low or get lynched.

[Ubernox]

What a way to go Nick.... and then you have to go through eternal damnation too, eh? But how do we know he wasn't just a sealed demon?

[Forum Mafia GM]

Graveyard/cross always shows the correct role. No demons are dead yet.

[Ubernox]

Danke, Rev.

[Yayap]

Lmao, I survive my encounter with Tiberius just to die exiting my jail cell.

[Brennenburg]

Good riddance.

[Yayap]

I'm still rooting for sin to win, even if it means that I loose.

[Brennenburg]

If that's the case, why did you kill like 3 sinners single-handedly?

[Yayap]

3? I only killed Nick.

[Deathfire123]

Yayap, why did you lie to False about hamslyx being your alt

[Yayap]

I never said that it was... and if you saw the rest of the chat, you would know that everyone knows that it's not me.

[TheWaaagh]

I'm just curious what exactly you said to tiberius to make him let you go.

Edit: And now Auckmid makes his stand defending hamslyx. And then when he gets lynched and they see he was a legionnaire.... Looks like I lost this game, thanks Auckmid!

[Yayap]

I'm just curious what exactly you said to tiberius to make him let you go.

I told him to help Sin and why that would be beneficial to him.

[TheWaaagh]

I told him to help Sin and why that would be beneficial to him.

You just made me hate not having access to my team's chat even more :(.

[Yayap]

An easier way to check is to click on the post count in the topic list. It brings up a little window with everyone who has posted and how many posts. If you click on the post count next to that user, it displays all of their posts in that topic.

I say that is the best tip of the game. I didn't even know that.

[Brennenburg]

DR, just let your game end.

Rewriting the entire game so it will continue until you deem it should end is retarded.

If you didn't want your entire game to be broken by people using your metagame bragging on skype about who you picked to be Lucifer and Jesus you probably shouldn't have said it in the first place.

Just my two cents. You've basically confirmed their suspicions by restating it though.

And yes, Ambient is Lucifer.

p.s. milking me for ad revenue is not a valid justification

[TheWaaagh]

DR, just let your game end.

Rewriting the entire game so it will continue until you deem it should end is retarded.

If you didn't want your entire game to be broken by people using your metagame bragging on skype about who you picked to be Lucifer and Jesus you probably shouldn't have said it in the first place.

Just my two cents. You've basically confirmed their suspicions by restating it though.

And yes, Ambient is Lucifer.

p.s. milking me for ad revenue is not a valid justification

Are you ever going to share with us what exactly the two private messages you received were?

[Brennenburg]

Someone told me that their role was stupid and basically pretty much wanted to get themself lynched

Someone told me they were slanting their analysis to make people play towards their faction, which I had already realized myself.

Now whether you believe me or not, is exactly why I did what I did.

[Ubernox]

Only False left to be lynched. Had a nice chat with CmG on SC2. He wanted me to send you his regards, Jack.

[TheWaaagh]

Someone told me that their role was stupid and basically pretty much wanted to get themself lynched

Someone told me they were slanting their analysis to make people play towards their faction, which I had already realized myself.

Now whether you believe me or not, is exactly why I did what I did.

Oh that's a let down. And I'm guessing Celt was the one that said he had a stupid role? Otherwise I still don't get why you specifically called him out when you were threatening to reveal roles.

[Ubernox]

Also, Waaagh: Did you tell us who the other romans were, or are you planning to leave that for us to deduce?

[TheWaaagh]

Also, Waaagh: Did you tell us who the other romans were, or are you planning to leave that for us to deduce?

Well I tried to let you guys deduce it, but deathfire sniped every single one. And I know if I got them all right and someone just said "Maaaaaaaaaaybe" I'd be pretty pissed so I figured I might as well confirm it. Sorry bud.

[Ubernox]

Excellent; more info. Care to refresh my memory, comrade?

[TheWaaagh]

Auckmid's Tiberius, Perotto/Elixir's tax collector, Fred's Pilate, Hamslyx and Sumi are legionnaires. Boom! Memory refreshed.

[Ubernox]

Danke shon. Now, is there any truth to the theory that Sumi is Narks?

[Ubernox]

Shit just got real. Looks like ol' Lucy Is goin' down.

[Deathfire123]

im confused if sinners win with eternity

[Ubernox]

Yeah, sinners win with the rest of Humanity, just not if they're actually sealed demons.

[Dust]

I hate the Romans. I gave them a chance to be allied with sin but they gave it up so that they can kill a sinner. I hate the Romans.

Let me give you our conversation in full later on when I get around to it.

[Dust]

Here is the conversation:


HELLO THERE DUST; I AM TAKING A RISK BY JAILING YOU--

AS I HAVE NO LEADS ON YOUR ROLE--BUT YOU DO SEEM QUITE SUSPICIOUS TO ME; PLEASE CLAIM

NOWAND GIVE ME ALL YOUR OPINIONS ON THE ROLES OF PLAYERS AND WHO YOU THINK THE DEMONS

ARE---------END


Sup. I was not able to post this last day (catharsis). I was out of

town for its entirety. I shall update myself to what had happened. From what I read of

the night thread it looks like Ambient was sentenced to be lynched but he survived. This

means that he is either a) you (unlikely as your Romans would have claimed for you) or b)

Lucy. I claim Shepherd. In my signature is a number that looks like a ratio. It is not.

Look up Luke 2:8 (Bible verse).

It's 1 in the morn where I live so I will give you my information when I wake up. sorry

about that. I'm really tired. Plus my list is on a different computer.


Now that I am up after a good sleep, I have one question to ask before I

start telling you anything. Do you want me to have invisibility on or off?





http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WbJNkH-pDd8


Okay so I lied. I'm a sinner. I think I have a demon sealed within.

If and when I go over to sin do you want to give them a message through me? Rome is the

one true neutral in this game and you should hedge yourself against anything and

everything. Here is my list of what I had before this last day and night thread (I

haven't updated it because I need to go through it with my comb)

When I started this list I copied it from the directory. I put numbers there for my ease.

If there is a space, it means that person died.

1.Ambient-Lucy
2.Ash -Poss. Sinner
3.Auckmid I have no notes on him. sorry
4.BorkBot -Humanity PR

6.Capitalier-semi-troll. reading into things. Humanity

8.Clawtrocity-tryin to manipulate town/humanity. perhaps Eternity?-I think he might be

Lucifer/Jesus trying to die-Claw wants others to suicide for him. (after the ambient

fiasco, I think he is either Eternity or PR humanity
9.CmG- talks in third person about town/Humanity (poss. one of the 3 factions)

11.Dimwit-Shepherd very much so. but also not reading into much
12.divemaster127- I have no notes on him. sorry
13.Dust-sinner
14.FalseTruth-poss. pretending not knowing whats going on-not sin or Roman (he could be

WIFOMing-anti roman-Claims that Claw is Jesus
15.Fragos-poss. sinner (if not sinner then Humanity PR)
16.fred-semi-lurker
17.Ganondorf-reading into stuffs -poss. commoner
18.Goonswarm-Being healed by a "claimed" doc
19.hamslyx-lurker
20.Illidan-Not roman, thinks I am possibly Roman
21.J-lurker
22.jaczac-sorry. no notes on him either
23.Kromos-doesn't know WIFOM-claimed citizen
24.Lunavium-possible sinner turned demon (leviathan)
25.McPwnage-poss. commoner
26.MileS
27.MrSmarter
28.nanosystem PR

30.NorthStar-troll. wants to survive. poss humanity or sin
31.oops_ur_dead-thinks he knows Jesus but is worried about the Romans-basically asks for

angel protection-Thinks that FT is jesus. Lost his angel protection. reading into

stuffs. poss. commoner.
32.Perotto-Elixir
33.philie-was on raiden's suspicion list- semi-lurker
34.Raiden-Knows what Eternity wants-claims to not be on same side as vornskr-Asks Illican

and me for our opinions on the other. semi-lurker
35.RandomNumbers0-Claims Rabbi/Doc
36.Rumpel1408-poss. roman
37.steeznuts-lurker
38.suicidaln00b Claimed Sinner
39.Sumikoko- poss. sinner. has good ideas

42.vornksr-I read him as a Humanity PR. He is pro-lynching sinners. I have down that he

could be using WIFOM and that he might be a sinner himself, but that it is unlikely.-

Claims Humanity
43.wolfcheese-Humanity- sort of worried about the Romans

45.Zack-actually reading-PR


Oh, I forgot to mention that I have no notes on MileS or MrSmarter.

They don't post as much for me to get a read on them.

Do you want me to set an agenda for the next day?


If I am a demon would you like set up a code to communicate between Sin

and Romans? This code would be entirely on my part until one of you Romans decide to

communicate back.

If we do create this code we should start with a code that means "I am a demon"

What do you think?


Oh, so you don't want to talk now? That's a shame.


I AM GOING TO CONSULT WITH MY TEAMATES BEFORE MAKING A

FINAL DESICION; UNFORTUNATELY--ETERNITY HAS US IN A TIGHT POSITION; DO YOU KNOW FOR

CERTAIN IF YOU ARE A DEMON-----------END


I do not know for certain. That is why I propose the code. Take your

time.


Why do you have the "-----------END" thing? Curiosity makes me ask.




The night is almost up. So I will do this: I will set up this code
On my second post of each day, the first letter:
T=I'm a demon
Anything else= I'm not a Demon


The night is almost up. So I will do this: I will set up this code
On my second post of each day, the first letter:
T=I'm a demon
Anything else= I'm not a Demon


20 minutes before DR starts the day thread...

[Sumikoko]

Lucifer just had to kill me his last night of survival (assuming Jesus is going to reveal himself tomorrow). And I wanted to take someone down with me as legionnaire. Grrr. Sumi is sad now.

And to dispel previous theories, no, I am my own person, not a veteran in disguise. :)

[Dust]

Sumi, tell me, what were the arguments to execute me?

[Deathfire123]

Romans kill Sinners end of story... thats the ONLY argument dont expect more from Auckmid

[Dust]

Then Auckmid dies in the next FM...

[Deathfire123]

Agreed, Auckmid BARELY even talked to me or even offered me a deal, and he DIDNT EVEN talk to Jack

[Sumikoko]

Well Eternity knows the identity of Tiberius, so Romans are forced into the position of siding with Eternity (though we sort of were already). And since GM made up a new rule that unsealed demons can start unsealing themselves, it pretty much forced us to start, I quote "witch hunt," to get rid of all potential demons.

One of our tax collectors had already investigated you, Dust, so we were waiting for you to lie. :p In which case, you did at first and that made it seem to us that you were attempting to shield the fact that you were an unsealed demon. So yeah, there you go. :)

[Dust]

How many posts? I only got 3. If you aren't exaggerating I might be the lucky one.

[Dust]

Why should knowledge of Mr. T be bad for the Romans? What could they possibly do to harm you? Kill Mr. T? That only puts the Romans on the side of Sin. Expose him? That would be putting a big target on his head that would do the same thing (siding with Sin).

What is the possible harm of Eternity knowing?

[Deathfire123]

I got one to introduce himself, one for me to clarify, and one to say he would talk with his team. I made about 4 very detailed posts after that with no response

[TheWaaagh]

Romans kill Sinners end of story... thats the ONLY argument dont expect more from Auckmid

Killing sinners is the best course of action. If they're human, they still win with humanity when Sin loses. If they have a demon, then that's one less demon for Sin. Sin will lose this game, so it's stupid to side with them and take an unnecessary risk.

[Sumikoko]

I'm not clear of the reasons myself actually. :(

Maybe because, and you're free to correct my logic failures, that if Roman is going to side with Sin without Tiberius dying anyway, Tiberius would pose a threat to Eternity, whilst if they kill Tiberius, it can prevent another assassination role on the side of Sin? Not to mention Pilate is useless after Jesus is lynched and Romans are forced to side with Sin, since he can't recruit afterwards.

In other words, for Eternity, if Rome aligns with Sin without Tiberius dying, it is more beneficial for Eternity to go ahead and get rid of Tiberius and have them side with Sin... Lesser of two evils? Not sure if any of that made any sense. ;;

[Dust]

So its like this:
If Rome sides with Sin,
Eternity starts a lynch against Mr. T (If they have a assassin they could send him)
Thus Pilate can't recruit and Rome is forced to join Sin.

The thing is, how would Eternity know if Rome sides with Sin? If Auckmid had considered my plan then Eternity would have to guess. But no. Auckmid wasn't thinking.

[Sumikoko]

Well, I think kill patterns can determine Rome's alliance.
Obviously, if Tiberius started killing innocents.
Or if Tiberius didn't kill innocents and let them out of their jail cell to be killed by demonic forces the next day.
Or devise some complex system to have the tax collector tell Sin who's who but Sin can just go "screw this" and kill Tiberius for his uselessness and have the tax collector in their chat.

I don't think Sin benefits anything from Tiberius being alive if Eternity knows who Tiberius is. :(

[Sumikoko]

OH. EM. GEE.
I can't believe all the leaders just revealed themselves.
Especially Auckmid.
HE TOLD ME TO GUARD FRED, NOT HIM. LSKDJFLKSDJF HE JUST GAVE HIS ROLE AWAY.
SKDJFLKSDJF -spaz-

[TheWaaagh]

Last night I tried to recruit Vornskr and was notified that he is in fact a demon!

I just nutted.

Edit: Damn it, now there's a jesus feud so I don't know who's telling the truth.

[Dust]

Some of you can guess how joyful I am that I am not a sealed demon.

[Deathfire123]

Some of you can guess how joyful I am that I am not a sealed demon.

I had the same reaction you did

[TheWaaagh]

See, Tiberius did you guys a favor by killing you. Now you know you're on the winning side! Rome still cool!

[Deathfire123]

Im gonna laugh real hard if neither vorn NOR ambient die next night

[Nick]

See, Tiberius did you guys a favor by killing you. Now you know you're on the winning side! Rome still cool!

Tiberius may get a lot more Sinner claims if he didn't declare war on Sinners so early. And you might have survived. TheWaaagh, are the Romans actually hunting for Sinners or checking veteran players for Jesus and Lucifer as their main strategy?

I hope Tiberius will not be doing a U-turn. Or that Sin has found their Beelzebub...


Im gonna laugh real hard if neither vorn NOR ambient die next night

Depends on how likely Tiberius think that Sin got Beelzebub. With Jesus at their grasp, I think their best choice is to end the game quickly...

@Yayap
What! You are actually hoping for a Sin win? How evil. I actually thought you are helping Humanity. :evil:

@TheWaaagh
Now that I'm here... hello! :smile:

[Deathfire123]

Well, the problem in MY situation was that I had NO IDEA if Rome was Sinner hunting, it was N1. So I just claimed, and they just killed me without so much as a chance for me to redeem myself

[TheWaaagh]

Tiberius may get a lot more Sinner claims if he didn't declare war on Sinners so early. And you might have survived. TheWaaagh, are the Romans actually hunting for Sinners or checking veteran players for Jesus and Lucifer as their main strategy?

I hope Tiberius will not be doing a U-turn. Or that Sin has found their Beelzebub...



Depends on how likely Tiberius think that Sin got Beelzebub. With Jesus at their grasp, I think their best choice is to end the game quickly...

@Yayap
What! You are actually hoping for a Sin win? How evil. I actually thought you are helping Humanity. :evil:

@TheWaaagh
Now that I'm here... hello! :smile:

Yeah, it's true I would've been more likely to survive if I didn't make my anti-sin stance public, but then I also wouldn't be playing the game. And given how nuts the first couple of days were with people having no idea who we should be lynching or how we should be approaching the game, I thought it was necessary to outline the reasons why sinners needed to die. Sure it would've been nice to live longer, but I'm happy with my performance. And I think my anti-sin stance helped cement that Rome was indeed on the "good" side this game for any human/eternity doubters.

And we figured Eternity was going to be the ones to scope out Lucifer since for tax collectors he would just come up as a commoner, so that wasn't really our goal. We were mainly focused on finding sinners, and possible angels if we needed any leverage for death-notes (in case Eternity decided to be late-game dicks). Which is why I investigated Dust the first night. I thought his "2:8" sig was hinting that he was an angel, since that passage in the bible refers to both angels and shepherds (which is what angels show up as to a tax collector).

[TheWaaagh]

Well, the problem in MY situation was that I had NO IDEA if Rome was Sinner hunting, it was N1. So I just claimed, and they just killed me without so much as a chance for me to redeem myself

Yeah, like I said wait until the game ends and you can read up on our conversation about you. It might seem like we just killed you without any reasoning, but we actually had a pretty lengthy discussion about whether or not we should keep you alive.

[Nick]

@Deathfire123
Sorry Deathfire123. I think if I'm their position, I would still have killed you, sooner or later. But I disagree with death notes against Sinners. Will make them refuse to call out and admit being Sinners, unlike Commoners. And they will flock to Sin, because Humanity and Roman has abandoned them. Don't like the hate. :push:
If I were to kill you, I would have given other reasons. Say threats against Tiberius. :p

@TheWaaagh
That being noble! As Roman I would be more self serving until I'm pretty sure of victory. Will be hunting Shepards, Rabbi and Commoners among the veteran players for the first few turns.

[Ubernox]

I think that Rome has taken the right course of action, and is continuing to do so. It's just so much more practical to side with Eternity and Humanity. Who did you die defending, Sumi?

[Nick]

According to Fragos, there are 2 active Demons. Did I read it correctly? Dimwit said nanosystem killed Yayap. Which means Ambient (Lucifer); nanosystem (Night2 Unsealed Demon). vornskr (Sealed Demon?) was found by Jesus? I'm confused.

Why not jail and kill Ambient, block and kill nanosystem, and block vornskr?

@Sumikoko
I agree. Roman is best kept hidden. If Eternity knows, Sin will also know. And that is bad...

@Ubernox
Roman did the right thing siding with Eternity and Humanity. But making it so obvious and revealing themselves will only risk revenge attacks from Sin.

P.S. If you hate colors. Tell me. I'll stop doing it.

EDIT: Read wrongly. nanosystem is not a Demon. Yeah. So Ambient and vornskr. Only??? Whore and Assassin on vornskr!

[Zane]

Why are you always using so many colors? Think of the colorblind people!

hi

[Nick]

Why are you always using so many colors? Think of the colorblind people!

hi

:(

Hi!

[Brennenburg]

Sin did not recruit the demon they meditated the night before(Zack[Beezlebub]) because the embalmer will simply search Lucifer's body anyway.

It's pretty much an inevitable loss made shorter.

Also, what I thought of this game, since it's about over:

Very, very imbalanced. As much as I argued that Sin had a chance, they had no chance.
Rome decided to be painfully boring and side with Eternity. Good job staying in your comfort zone, guys.
Because of the above, the game was painfully boring, with the only outlet for lynches being 'sinners' which may or may not be evil and they have no idea if they are.
Had to step WAAAAAY(like, to the trollish degree) out of my comfort zone to even begin to make this game interesting to myself.
I got pub jail'd in forum mafia, as far as I'm concerned Auckmid is dead n1 for the rest of his playing experience.
Too complicated of a game, majority spent more of the first part of 3 days making opinions based on false information or being confused as shit. Which detracts from the game.
MVP - FalseTruth, he played Sinner 100% correctly, despite what any of you might think. He had Lucifer pinned n2, made a false claim on Lucifer, destroyed his own credibility. And if he was not revealed to be a demon he planned to out Lucifer.
The rest of you, thank you for making this FM as painfully boring as humanly possible.

[TheWaaagh]

Sin did not recruit the demon they meditated the night before(Zack[Beezlebub]) because the embalmer will simply search Lucifer's body anyway.

It's pretty much an inevitable loss made shorter.

Also, what I thought of this game, since it's about over:

Very, very imbalanced. As much as I argued that Sin had a chance, they had no chance.
Rome decided to be painfully boring and side with Eternity. Good job staying in your comfort zone, guys.
Because of the above, the game was painfully boring, with the only outlet for lynches being 'sinners' which may or may not be evil and they have no idea if they are.
Had to step WAAAAAY(like, to the trollish degree) out of my comfort zone to even begin to make this game interesting to myself.
I got pub jail'd in forum mafia, as far as I'm concerned Auckmid is dead n1 for the rest of his playing experience.
Too complicated of a game, majority spent more of the first part of 3 days making opinions based on false information or being confused as shit. Which detracts from the game.
MVP - FalseTruth, he played Sinner 100% correctly, despite what any of you might think. He had Lucifer pinned n2, made a false claim on Lucifer, destroyed his own credibility. And if he was not revealed to be a demon he planned to out Lucifer.
The rest of you, thank you for making this FM as painfully boring as humanly possible.



I see you took my advice about not being such an insufferable prick to heart. Oh well, I tried.

Also, is it really fair to say you got pub jailed, when a couple lines above that you admit you were being a troll? I know you're such a genius and all, so I guess my inferior brain has a hard time understanding what appears to be a contradiction.

I thought that you had chilled out and stopped being such a whiny bitch, but I guess someone bonked you on the head and you've reverted back to your original post-death douchebag persona. It's really a shame.

[Forum Mafia GM]

So, you liked Auckmid, Jack? Well, after tonight, you'll love him.

[Brennenburg]

I see you took my advice about not being such an insufferable prick to heart. Oh well, I tried.

Also, is it really fair to say you got pub jailed, when a couple lines above that you admit you were being a troll? I know you're such a genius and all, so I guess my inferior brain has a hard time understanding what appears to be a contradiction.

I thought that you had chilled out and stopped being such a whiny bitch, but I guess someone bonked you on the head and you've reverted back to your original post-death douchebag persona. It's really a shame.
You really don't want to get into an argument with me over this. Especially since the only dispute you have attempted to refute is whether or not I was pub jailed, to which basically everyone I've talked to other than you has said was bullshit. Fred's motivation was simply to kill me because he perceived me as a player as a threat, I've talked to him about it.

So I know you think you're cool for standing up to me, but get the fuck over it.

P.S.
DR, I already know he chose not to jail Ambient, so whoever he chose to jail is probably going to be as angry as I am.

[TheWaaagh]

You really don't want to get into an argument with me over this. Especially since the only dispute you have attempted to refute is whether or not I was pub jailed, to which basically everyone I've talked to other than you has said was bullshit. Fred's motivation was simply to kill me because he perceived me as a player as a threat, I've talked to him about it.

So I know you think you're cool for standing up to me, but get the fuck over it.

P.S.
DR, I already know he chose not to jail Ambient, so whoever he chose to jail is probably going to be as angry as I am.

So even after you died you still went on a quest to prove that you were pub jailed and talked to other people about it outside of the game? Yeah it seems like I'm the one that needs to get the fuck over it.

And I don't care if I look cool standing up to a guy who thinks he's the king of forum mafia, but if you insist on acting like a dick I'm going to tell you you're a dick. That's not me trying to be cool, that's me telling you to grow the fuck up.

[Deathfire123]

Waaagh, you and me are gonna be good buddies

[TheWaaagh]

Waaagh, you and me are gonna be good buddies

I got yo' back! :)

[Brennenburg]

So even after you died you still went on a quest to prove that you were pub jailed and talked to other people about it outside of the game? Yeah it seems like I'm the one that needs to get the fuck over it.

And I don't care if I look cool standing up to a guy who thinks he's the king of forum mafia, but if you insist on acting like a dick I'm going to tell you you're a dick. That's not me trying to be cool, that's me telling you to grow the fuck up.
I went on a quest? No, I'm in regular contact with 12 of the most influential players in every FM. Of course something like that would come up in normal conversation.

I can tell you're not even trying anymore, so I wonder why you even bothered commenting in the first place.

If you really think I'm being unfair in my assessment of this game, refute me. If not, you don't really have the right to an opinion on the matter. You can say you're motivated simply because you perceive my abrasively honest personality to be despicable, but nothing I said was unfair or untrue. Hell, I didn't even mean it arrogantly. I said what was on my mind, and if you have a problem with that, meet me with arguments and not with petty character assassinations.

Thanks.

[Deathfire123]

Let's just all agree this game was rigged in Eternity's favor

[Sumikoko]

I defended fred (Pilate) last night, Ubernox. So I can't believe why Tiberius would reveal himself. LSDJFKLSDJF

I feel it was just entirely a stroke of luck that enabled Eternity to take the upper hand.
One, was Rome, jailing Yayap on Night III. The vote to jail-kill him was split half and half, and Auckmid made the call on that one and released him, despite knowing he claimed sinner. He didn't want to outright claim Eternity/Roman alliance when no one knew who Jesus or Lucifer was at the time.
Yayap, was, of course, killed upon exiting. And it just so happened a Disciple Shepherd tracked him that very night, confirming Tiberius's identity and figuring out Lucifer's at the same time. (Which, it's interesting to note Dimwit's attempt at defending Auckmid by using his newly earned credibility to swap people's opinions away from Auckmid being Tiberius. Not sure how well it'll go but I'll give him an A for effort.)

[Brennenburg]

While I admire your courage for saying something opposite of the general opinion, I will have to respectfully disagree Sumikoko.

This game has been rigged against Sin from the start, with two detect exact role investigators and a cult leader on their team, Eternity could investigate 3 players a night. Sin doesn't hit it's stride until Day 13, in which time Eternity would have investigated 36 people. The edge this gives them is increased for every person who dies, while Sin cannot really do anything to increase their KPN. At best Sin kills 24 people by Night 13, Eternity has a clear edge. This advantage is then compounded by the majority faction being given no other outlet to focus on other than Sin, which makes operating even more difficult for Sin. And then you consider Rome, who is basically handed victory on a silver platter in this setup, who is encouraged heavily to side with Eternity to this effect.

Sin, on the other hand, is an isolated Mason Leader who recruits citizens(Sinners in this case), but only of which about 45% of them can actually be recruited. And he starts alone, and is not allied with any other faction. And his opponent has two auto-use vest doc/investigators which basically neutralize his kill immunity advantage.

This game was a mess balance-wise, it really isn't unexpected that this outcome occurred when Rome decided to side with Eternity.

[TheWaaagh]

I went on a quest? No, I'm in regular contact with 12 of the most influential players in every FM. Of course something like that would come up in normal conversation.

I can tell you're not even trying anymore, so I wonder why you even bothered commenting in the first place.

If you really think I'm being unfair in my assessment of this game, refute me. If not, you don't really have the right to an opinion on the matter. You can say you're motivated simply because you perceive my abrasively honest personality to be despicable, but nothing I said was unfair or untrue. Hell, I didn't even mean it arrogantly. I said what was on my mind, and if you have a problem with that, meet me with arguments and not with petty character assassinations.

Thanks.

So you don't want me to meet you with petty character assassinations, but it's okay for you to tell me to get the fuck over it? It's okay for you to say I'm not even trying anymore, and that I don't have the right to have an opinion on the matter? Those sound like character assassinations to me, but fine I'll ignore those and meet you with arguments like you requested.

You don't like the way Rome played because you feel they took the easy way out by siding with Eternity, true? We didn't design the mechanics of this game, DR did. With that in mind, it only makes sense for us to side with Eternity because they were clearly going to be the victors. Mechanically, Jesus has to be lynched for us to win, so it makes no sense for us to hunt him at night. And it also doesn't make sense for us to hunt and execute his angels, because then Sin could fuck everything up by killing Jesus at night. Sin already killed two Romans by accident, and attempted to kill Pilate (I assume by accident as well).

That shows how much of a wild card they are, and since we can't communicate with them at night, except by jailing a confirmed demon, there's no way for them to know who we are, and to trust that they wouldn't kill someone. For instance, if I was Lucifer, and Rome told me the identities of all their people (so they wouldn't be killed) the first thing I'd do is kill Tiberius. Why? Because then I get night chat access to the two tax collectors. And I get access to the legionnaires to protect my demons from Eternity converted assassins. So in a game of trust, siding with Sin doesn't really make sense.

I know you have a lot of anger towards Rome because you feel that they were unfair in their dealings with you. But as I brought up in my wall of text about what happens when you act the way you do in jail, being a dick makes you have it coming. Now that's a point you and I have already argued. And since you never really refuted that argument, I assume that means you agree that if you act like a dick and get killed, that's at least partially your fault.

You did, however, say that being a dick was not the reason you were killed. Instead, you were killed because you were deemed a threat as a player. Is that an unfair reason for killing someone? If you know how a certain player acts, and you deem them a threat, I fail to see how killing them would be unfair. And I'm assuming you knew the risk of your identity, given your reputation in forum mafia, and that's why you decided to bring out an alt account. That's fine. With this alt account though, it took you only one day of questioning before you dramatically threw off your mask and revealed yourself to the world as TheJackofSpades. Here's my question for you then: what did you think was going to happen when you did that? You knew people would find you as a threat if you came in with your main account, otherwise I see no reason for you to sign up as an alt. So revealing your COM identity completely undermined the point you were trying to make with your alt account, and given your knowledge of the most influential players in FM, it honestly did not occur to you that once your identity was revealed people would want to remove you from the game?

And I fail to see how you can judge other players when you were a commoner that claimed Sinner. Why would you do that? If you looked over the roles in the game, you had to have seen that sinners would be the biggest threat to the mob, as there aren't really any other roles to lynch in the early game. So you brought the spotlight on yourself and then after a round of questioning discarded your alt identity. It was your multiple misplays with your own scheme of anonymity that brought you down.

And you claimed to be so good at the game because you had already deduced Jesus and Lucifer, and yet after the game and you revealed your guesses, it turns out you were wrong on both accounts. And yet I haven't heard you say one word about how you fucked up your assessment of the game. And yet here we're suppose to take your assessment of everyone and how they should've played the game as God's truth. Yes, I do have a problem with that. Because for you to assume that you know how everyone else should've played means that you don't see any faults with your own play this game. And I would say there were plenty of problems. Every argument I've made so far you've simply refuted with "lol that's not what player x said". You're right, I don't speak to these people outside of this game, so I can only go off the information I have, but isn't that how the game is supposed to be played anyway?

Maybe I misread the tone of your post, because it did come off as terribly arrogant to me, but now you're saying that you didn't intend it that way. And honestly, that's the first respectable thing I've read from you, so I have to commend you for that.

I just wish you'd see things from other people's perspectives.

Thank you.

[TheWaaagh]

And since apparently you're reading this thread, DR: I don't know if I'm just being a jackass, but it looks like you never uploaded what the aspect of wrath does to the rule directory. I know the game's kind of over at this point, but I figured I'd let you know.

[Forum Mafia GM]

I'm aware of this. I'm surprised nobody called me out on this.

Anyway I can't do anything about it for a while. Because I'm an asshole who does not keep the FM spreadsheets on his laptop when going out to college.

[TheWaaagh]

I'm aware of this. I'm surprised nobody called me out on this.

Anyway I can't do anything about it for a while. Because I'm an asshole who does not keep the FM spreadsheets on his laptop when going out to college.

Ah lol, yeah I know that game. I'm just glad I wasn't missing something. Since no one spoke up in the day chat about it, I thought it was a problem on my end.

[Sumikoko]

I sincerely thank you for attempting to explain my logic holes, Brennenburg (or Jack if you so prefer).

However, I will openly admit this is my first game of Mafia to be ever played. I have not even played SC2 at all, for that matter. So having all this thrown at me, well, heh. Not the best mechanics for a first-timer. Raiden was spot on when he accused me of not understanding the mechanics. I think I get the general gist of what you're saying, but I'll definitely have to wiki what a Mason Leader does and all that. Definitely appreciate all aid at trying to help me make sense of all this. It had not occurred to me at all that the game was inherently skewed. :)

One thing that I would like to ask is how you people nailed me being the transformed Legionnaire by Night 2. ;; I didn't think there were any obvious giveaways by that time, other than the fact that I posted slightly more. But that was more due to people accusing me of lurking and saying lurkers are the most suspicious, and it sort of, well, scared me. I also read over my posts the day you guys said I literally claimed Roman, and well, could you direct me to the specific post that made me sound like so? Sumi must learn from her failures to get better.

Other than that, I guess the only complaint I have, out of sourness and poor sportsmanship on my part, is Rome's extreme ... brevity at discussion. I'm not sure if it's typical to just state what you're planning to do and leave, but that felt like all that was being done in the chat. They implied twice that a Legionnaire could step up to be the voice of Rome since Rome's reputation was plunging into the toilet, but I never got a straight answer on whether what or how I should do it... Blarfgh. The woes of being new.

[Brennenburg]

So you don't want me to meet you with petty character assassinations, but it's okay for you to tell me to get the fuck over it? It's okay for you to say I'm not even trying anymore, and that I don't have the right to have an opinion on the matter? Those sound like character assassinations to me, but fine I'll ignore those and meet you with arguments like you requested.
I have never, not once, said you were a bad player or that you played badly. But if you're going to continue to insult me without any substance to your assault, I am going to tell you that you mean nothing to me and your opinion has no weight. Is that a character assassination? Hardly, hell not at all. It's just me telling you how I perceive you in the flow of discussion.


You don't like the way Rome played because you feel they took the easy way out by siding with Eternity, true? We didn't design the mechanics of this game, DR did. With that in mind, it only makes sense for us to side with Eternity because they were clearly going to be the victors. Mechanically, Jesus has to be lynched for us to win, so it makes no sense for us to hunt him at night. And it also doesn't make sense for us to hunt and execute his angels, because then Sin could fuck everything up by killing Jesus at night. Sin already killed two Romans by accident, and attempted to kill Pilate (I assume by accident as well).

That shows how much of a wild card they are, and since we can't communicate with them at night, except by jailing a confirmed demon, there's no way for them to know who we are, and to trust that they wouldn't kill someone. For instance, if I was Lucifer, and Rome told me the identities of all their people (so they wouldn't be killed) the first thing I'd do is kill Tiberius. Why? Because then I get night chat access to the two tax collectors. And I get access to the legionnaires to protect my demons from Eternity converted assassins. So in a game of trust, siding with Sin doesn't really make sense.
You had the choice to take the easy path, or the hard path. You started the aggression by making a statement on executing a Sinner n1. How do you expect Sin to react in this regard? Blood begets blood, and while I'm sure the first roman death was an accident, the ones following my demise probably weren't. By siding with Eternity so blindly, you may even end up losing the game entirely, now that it is clear Sin has no way of winning.

It doesn't matter how high the odds were stacked against a Roman/Sin alliance, I doubt you even considered the prospect for more than a few hours of discussion in n1 chat, if even that. What you're saying is along the same thought process as the thought process in FM1 by the mafia. "Let's not attack the cult, because if we don't they'll recruit us and we'll have a better chance at winning.", and while I understand your win condition justified your actions, simply assuming that Sin would betray you at the first opportunity when they NEEDED you to have even an inkling of chance to win is asinine. ROME, not Sin, was the wild card in that scenario. It's the exact reason I demanded Pilate before I would talk, because having leverage over Rome was the only way to guarantee that they wouldn't betray Eternity. But none of that matters, the fact of the matter is if you as a faction had decided to side with Sin, the game would have been MUCH more interesting, and a lot more fresh. Instead, the game stagnated and many players simply didn't care enough to put in any effort. It showed, anyone with eyes could see it.


I know you have a lot of anger towards Rome because you feel that they were unfair in their dealings with you. But as I brought up in my wall of text about what happens when you act the way you do in jail, being a dick makes you have it coming. Now that's a point you and I have already argued. And since you never really refuted that argument, I assume that means you agree that if you act like a dick and get killed, that's at least partially your fault.

You did, however, say that being a dick was not the reason you were killed. Instead, you were killed because you were deemed a threat as a player. Is that an unfair reason for killing someone? If you know how a certain player acts, and you deem them a threat, I fail to see how killing them would be unfair. And I'm assuming you knew the risk of your identity, given your reputation in forum mafia, and that's why you decided to bring out an alt account. That's fine. With this alt account though, it took you only one day of questioning before you dramatically threw off your mask and revealed yourself to the world as TheJackofSpades. Here's my question for you then: what did you think was going to happen when you did that? You knew people would find you as a threat if you came in with your main account, otherwise I see no reason for you to sign up as an alt. So revealing your COM identity completely undermined the point you were trying to make with your alt account, and given your knowledge of the most influential players in FM, it honestly did not occur to you that once your identity was revealed people would want to remove you from the game?
First, let me say that the reason I am angry about being executed is being the jailor did not talk to me, at all. Not a reason, not even enough guts to say I was being executed. Silence. This is the biggest insult you could ever give a player in a game that spans the length of several weeks. I might have come off as a troll to you, but I put a lot of effort into what I did, I came up with the best possible plan I could think of to ensure I remained unrecruited so I could keep the game as fair as possible. I tossed around a lot of empty threats, yeah, but that was kind of all I had to work with since I couldn't exactly do anything else about it.

My attempt at neutrality didn't work, Yayap for whatever reason he saw fit, would not allow me to sink into obscurity thanks to his obsession with finding my identity. So I cast off my anonymity to garner support from people who I knew would back me up as I've backed them up in the past. And it worked. I didn't join this game anonymously because I knew I would be a major target, I joined anonymously because I could. I wanted to see from the perspective of a new player how they could say things so ridiculously scummy and remain more-or-less unseen. I learned a lot, in fact. But it wasn't helping me stay alive and I wanted to.



And I fail to see how you can judge other players when you were a commoner that claimed Sinner. Why would you do that? If you looked over the roles in the game, you had to have seen that sinners would be the biggest threat to the mob, as there aren't really any other roles to lynch in the early game. So you brought the spotlight on yourself and then after a round of questioning discarded your alt identity. It was your multiple misplays with your own scheme of anonymity that brought you down.

And you claimed to be so good at the game because you had already deduced Jesus and Lucifer, and yet after the game and you revealed your guesses, it turns out you were wrong on both accounts. And yet I haven't heard you say one word about how you fucked up your assessment of the game. And yet here we're suppose to take your assessment of everyone and how they should've played the game as God's truth. Yes, I do have a problem with that. Because for you to assume that you know how everyone else should've played means that you don't see any faults with your own play this game. And I would say there were plenty of problems. Every argument I've made so far you've simply refuted with "lol that's not what player x said". You're right, I don't speak to these people outside of this game, so I can only go off the information I have, but isn't that how the game is supposed to be played anyway?
I don't think you understand me at all, I self-loathe constantly. I criticize myself so much that I sink into deep depressions every time I die, in sc2 mafia or forum mafia. Just because I don't do it on the forums doesn't mean it doesn't happen. But that also doesn't mean I do not have the ability to see a setup for what it is and offer criticism for how it played out. And everything I said was 100% my own opinion, backed up by other player's thoughts on the matter to form a strong opinion on the matter. You've done a better job at actually confronting the issues I've laid out, but you're still really missing the point. I don't care if you disagree or not, that's entirely up to you, but I do have a problem with you insulting me because of who I am and what I do. I am not an expert at game balance, but I will always do my best to offer fair criticism of any setup, any role that is presented because offering BLIND PRAISE AND AFFECTION does not help ANYONE but instead merely perpetuates the problem. People do not get better any other way. So when I said your choice to side with Eternity was boring, you should be able to see the hidden subtext that says "Next time fucking try something interesting like siding with the underdogs", which will help create a better game overall.

Maybe I misread the tone of your post, because it did come off as terribly arrogant to me, but now you're saying that you didn't intend it that way. And honestly, that's the first respectable thing I've read from you, so I have to commend you for that.

Let's be honest here, you saw what you wanted to see. Because just like Deathfire, you have some sick obsession with picking a fight with me.

I just wish you'd see things from other people's perspectives.
This is misplaced, and ironic.


Thank you.

[Brennenburg]

Other than that, I guess the only complaint I have, out of sourness and poor sportsmanship on my part, is Rome's extreme ... brevity at discussion. I'm not sure if it's typical to just state what you're planning to do and leave, but that felt like all that was being done in the chat. They implied twice that a Legionnaire could step up to be the voice of Rome since Rome's reputation was plunging into the toilet, but I never got a straight answer on whether what or how I should do it... Blarfgh. The woes of being new.
I agree that this shouldn't be the way things are, I have personally always tried to make my night chat atmospheres inviting places of discussion and understanding, but I am in the small minority in this regard. I'm not sure whether or not normal members can see the forum mafia archives or not(I assume so), but if you can it may be worth looking back at the De Luca mafia's night chat in Forum Mafia 2 to see how a cohesive team night chat can possibly operate.

p.s. You should post more often in places other than dead chat. Philie misses you.

[Zane]

Brennenburg writes too much. I can't read one of his posts : (

[TheWaaagh]

Okay, I'm going to do us both a favor and not quote that entire thing because these posts are just getting to mammoth sizes.

First of all, I don't think you get what subtext means, as that's exactly how I read your criticism of Rome's play. I understand you wanted us to do something "interesting" but that's also a lot easier to say when you're not the one in the pilot's seat. At this point it's just me and you banging our opinions together trying to see who will better utilize the caps lock key so there's no point in that.

I feel like I'm starting to get a better handle on you, and I'll admit I was very frustrated with the way you behaved in the day chat and I'm sure that clouded my own perception of you. I would agree that it's ironic I told you to consider other points of view, but I would not say it was misplaced.

And yes I know that blind praise is stupid, but it also seems like you're guilty of this to an extent. I mean from day 2 on you've been nutting over FalseTruth and Clawtrocity for the way they've acted, and yet you offer no fair praise to anyone else in the game. I guess it just really bothered me to come into a game as the newbie and then have 3 vets refer to themselves as "The Three Wisemen" as if you were this super secret club of the elite of the elite.

Now with that being said, no I don't have an obsession with fighting you. If you'll notice, after I posted my theory on the consequences of bad behavior, I did not continue arguing with you. I was polite and frankly, I thought we were done. But then you had to make that post where I felt that me and my teammates were being attacked for the way we played. And that's why I felt the need to speak up again. It had nothing to do with trying to look cool, and it had nothing to do with obsessing over you, it was simply a matter of you attacking my teammates with what I felt were unwarranted criticisms. And I do still feel it's unwarranted, but again, no point in me and you smashing our opinions together until one of us gives up, since we're both obviously stubborn assholes. And no that's not a character assassination, if anything it's a character kamikaze attack, and if you really have a problem with that, then it's just me that's the stubborn asshole. But don't attack my team and expect me to say nothing.

EDIT: I completely agree Sumi, I know I tended to ramble a lot in the night chat but most people would just peek their heads in and then peace out which I thought was strange. It also didn't help that we had to rely on Auckmid to copy + paste all of the jail discussions before we could figure out our next move.

[Brennenburg]

And yes I know that blind praise is stupid, but it also seems like you're guilty of this to an extent. I mean from day 2 on you've been nutting over FalseTruth and Clawtrocity for the way they've acted, and yet you offer no fair praise to anyone else in the game. I guess it just really bothered me to come into a game as the newbie and then have 3 vets refer to themselves as "The Three Wisemen" as if you were this super secret club of the elite of the elite.
I thought I'd just lift this off of what you said and let the matter drop.

You need to understand that I talk to some players beyond just this sub-forum. I know the flaws in their play just as well as I know my own. I insult them constantly, we trade insults like there's no tomorrow. Claw and I have come to blows more than once, but that doesn't change the fact that they're my friends. So I'm fine belligerently railing on them in our skype chat, but I'd prefer not to do it here. And like I said, I think False absolutely deserves MVP this game, but I can see if you don't see why. I've had a close look at what he's thinking behind the scenes and his play is just awesome to me. Blind praise? Maybe a little, but I think it's deserved this time.

You don't have to win to be MVP, after all. Illidan, Yayap, Myself. All proof of that.

[TheWaaagh]

I dig everything that you've said, although in terms of MVP I would nominate FalseTruth only if he did in fact have a demon in him. Just because he somehow managed to survive a lynch and then escape the spotlight the next day and let Nick die instead.

If he didn't have a demon in him though, he really did not help humanity in the slightest with his wild accusations and almost lynch.

In a similar vein, since Yayap didn't have a demon him I thought his actions really helped humanity just because he attracted the attention of all 3 factions in one night and allowed the game to finally get rolling due to his death. I'm not sure if he actually planned it like that but it's funny how things work out sometimes.

I think the clearest winner in my opinion though would be McPwnage, just because he flew under the radar so well as Jesus and then came out with a master plan to win the game. A master plan that hinged on Tiberius though, which from what I understand got kind of fucked, but a master plan nonetheless.

[Zane]

Guys could you try to use less than 3 lines. because my brain says no... : (

[Deathfire123]

Let's be honest here, you saw what you wanted to see. Because just like Deathfire, you have some sick obsession with picking a fight with me.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I like how you are using my exact words about you against me. Also, you are the one always picking the fight, the quote in my sig is proof of that.

[Ubernox]

Wall of text can and will not be read.

-vote Waaagh for president of Brodom.

[TheWaaagh]

Wall of text can and will not be read.

-vote Waaagh for president of Brodom.

Lol, I think you mispelled boredom. I'm all about the wall of text :).

[Brennenburg]

I dig everything that you've said, although in terms of MVP I would nominate FalseTruth only if he did in fact have a demon in him. Just because he somehow managed to survive a lynch and then escape the spotlight the next day and let Nick die instead.

If he didn't have a demon in him though, he really did not help humanity in the slightest with his wild accusations and almost lynch.

In a similar vein, since Yayap didn't have a demon him I thought his actions really helped humanity just because he attracted the attention of all 3 factions in one night and allowed the game to finally get rolling due to his death. I'm not sure if he actually planned it like that but it's funny how things work out sometimes.

I think the clearest winner in my opinion though would be McPwnage, just because he flew under the radar so well as Jesus and then came out with a master plan to win the game. A master plan that hinged on Tiberius though, which from what I understand got kind of fucked, but a master plan nonetheless.
Normally I might agree with you about McPwnage but the plan was pretty much cut and dry. AFAIK all the major players already realized what would happen as soon as Jesus was lynched. But I think lurking this time around was just another sign of 'comfort', and so I decide to give my support to a player that tried his best to make an otherwise boring game interesting.

[Ubernox]

Nope, I meant to say Brodom.

Brodom.

[TheWaaagh]

Nope, I meant to say Brodom.

Brodom.

Yeah, I was just making a joke at my own expense. If anything, you and I can be President and Vice President of the piss off Lucifer and die early party.

Our enemy will be Zane and Deathfire, for they are the leaders of the piss off not Lucifer and die early party.

[Deathfire123]

I think the reason Ambient killed: Ubernox (1), TheWaaagh (2) was because I said NOT to kill the newbies.

[Ubernox]

Welcome to the piss-off lucifer party, Secretary General!

[Nick]

Ignored the wall of text.

@Sumikoko
Agreed. I also have similar opinion as Deathfire123. A stroke of luck. Maybe obvious play by Sin. Will know after the game ends. When we can read the Sin night chat.

@Jack
I don't think the game is imbalanced. Sin is weak early I agree. But Roman will side with Sin when the game progresses. That's when Eternity and Humanity will be in trouble. Regarding Beelzebub, it's a good bargaining card. Wonder how Ambient will use it? And whether Auckmid will take a step back?

EDIT:

I think this game is not for Sin to solo alone. Roman and Humanity also need to make a choice. By the way, Fragos said there are 2 Demons. I was expecting 3 after Night IV. Can anyone explain to me? If there are 3 Demons, the game might not end before Night VII.

[Brennenburg]

Ignored the wall of text.

@Sumikoko
Agreed. I also have similar opinion as Deathfire123. A stroke of luck. Maybe obvious play by Sin. Will know after the game ends. When we can read the Sin night chat.

@Jack
I don't think the game is imbalanced. Sin is weak early I agree. But Roman will side with Sin when the game progresses. That's when Eternity and Humanity will be in trouble. Regarding Beelzebub, it's a good bargaining card. Wonder how Ambient will use it? And whether Auckmid will take a step back?
I don't think you realize that there's like 30 people alive aligned against Sin, there's no "bargaining" left to do, all that's left is for Sin to kill Rome because that's all they CAN achieve at this point.

[Nick]

I think the reason Ambient killed: Ubernox (1), TheWaaagh (2) was because I said NOT to kill the newbies.

They are the ones who expresses clear, strong pro-Eternity/anti-Sin stance the day they died.

[Nick]

I don't think you realize that there's like 30 people alive aligned against Sin, there's no "bargaining" left to do, all that's left is for Sin to kill Rome because that's all they CAN achieve at this point.

Yup. No bargaining with Humanity. Sin got caught too early. I thinking of bargaining with Roman. Roman will not fall due to Humanity now that Assassin have only 1 shot after tonight.

Wait... Do you mean that Sin will not be able to threaten Roman tonight? And can only rely on revenge attacks? Poor Roman. Good luck Sumikoko and TheWaaagh.

[TheWaaagh]

Yup. No bargaining with Humanity. Sin got caught too early. I thinking of bargaining with Roman. Roman will not fall due to Humanity now that Assassin have only 1 shot after tonight.

Wait... Do you mean that Sin will not be able to threaten Roman tonight? And can only rely on revenge attacks? Poor Roman. Good luck Sumikoko and TheWaaagh.

I don't think I understand what you're saying here. But thanks for the luck.

[Sumikoko]

p.s. You should post more often in places other than dead chat. Philie misses you.

Ah, how should I say this, there aren't many places I can post taking into consideration the limited amount of Mafia knowledge I have. ;; I'll see what I can do though.
I might take a look at Deathfire's Death Note thread, being an otaku and all. :) Whooo Misa Misaaa!

Whether Rome wins or not, well, I dunno. I don't really care about it that much, to be honest. I feel like this is more of a storytelling competition amongst bards moreso than it is a competitive game, lol. I just kind of want to know how the story will unfold now. The general consensus amongst the deceased here seem to be that it'll be a bland ending, but you never know. There's always hope that something interesting will happen.

I have a question to the Almight Jupiter (as this was how the GM portrayed himself in my death scene :p). I hope this isn't a question already answered in some obscure place, but I'm assuming as of right now, Lucifer is the vessel through which the KPN takes place (since he could be traced as the person visiting Yayap, unless nanosystem was the other demon participating in the vote somehow, which I highly doubt). So once he gets killed, I'm assuming the demons don't automatically lose all their abilities to kill at night. But who would be the one doing the killing? Or would it just be a collective entity thing?

[TheWaaagh]

Ah, how should I say this, there aren't many places I can post taking into consideration the limited amount of Mafia knowledge I have. ;; I'll see what I can do though.
I might take a look at Deathfire's Death Note thread, being an otaku and all. :) Whooo Misa Misaaa!

Whether Rome wins or not, well, I dunno. I don't really care about it that much, to be honest. I feel like this is more of a storytelling competition amongst bards moreso than it is a competitive game, lol. I just kind of want to know how the story will unfold now. The general consensus amongst the deceased here seem to be that it'll be a bland ending, but you never know. There's always hope that something interesting will happen.

I have a question to the Almight Jupiter (as this was how the GM portrayed himself in my death scene :p). I hope this isn't a question already answered in some obscure place, but I'm assuming as of right now, Lucifer is the vessel through which the KPN takes place (since he could be traced as the person visiting Yayap, unless nanosystem was the other demon participating in the vote somehow, which I highly doubt). So once he gets killed, I'm assuming the demons don't automatically lose all their abilities to kill at night. But who would be the one doing the killing? Or would it just be a collective entity thing?

From the Q&A it just says a number of demons are picked each night to do the killing. I'd assume this means they'd come to an agreement as to who gets sent, as that's how it's worked in all the other forum mafias.

[Brennenburg]

Ah, how should I say this, there aren't many places I can post taking into consideration the limited amount of Mafia knowledge I have. ;;
http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/3724-Most-Enjoyable-Anime

[Sumikoko]

From the Q&A it just says a number of demons are picked each night to do the killing. I'd assume this means they'd come to an agreement as to who gets sent, as that's how it's worked in all the other forum mafias.

Hmmm. A random question for you people to help Sumi gain perspective. :) If Lucifer had not been figured out and Jesus has not been lynched somehow and there are only a couple of demons unsealed, do you think it would be more beneficial to send Lucifer every time since he is invincible at the moment and has no fear of Legionnaires, or would you send a different and/or less useful demon every night for fear of a tracker of some sort? Or some other proposal?


http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/3724-Most-Enjoyable-Anime

This thread definitely whooshed past my head somehow. I fail as an otaku.

[Nick]

With the new rules. Yes? Lucifer is dispensable after Day7. However, some might disagree. Depends on what Demons they currently have.

[TheWaaagh]

Yeah, since Lucifer is invulnerable and legionnaires are running around at night it makes sense to send him for the important kills. Add to that the new rules like Nick said and Lucifer is fairly expendable either way.

[Sumikoko]

Oh yeah... I forgot about those new rules...

So what if we suppose those rules didn't exist, hypothetically?

[TheWaaagh]

In that case, I dunno. I guess I'd send the other demons out until most of them had been unsealed, then just keep sending my invulnerable ass everywhere after I had nothing else to do on nights. Then again, one big thing I would do differently, compared to Ambient, is attack people that did not seem like big targets. He had to know people would be all over Yayap, so I'm not really sure why he decided to attack him that night and get outted. If he'd just kept picking off people that were barely active or not active at all (like Hamslyx) he could've kept building up the body count until all the demons were unsealed.

[Nick]

@TheWaaagh
If I am Lucifer, I would target veteran players that are not supporting me. I will not kill the ones on top of the must die list like Ubernox, TheWaaagh or Yayap. I will keep the inactive players ALIVE to disrupt day lynching. And I will try my best not to piss of Roman (Ubernox, TheWaaagh, Sumikoko-fred).

@Sumikoko
If the rules don't exist, Lucifer is still the better choice (read better, not best). Let other demons use their abilities.

[TheWaaagh]

@TheWaaagh
If I am Lucifer, I would target veteran players that are not supporting me. I will not kill the ones on top of the must die list like Ubernox, TheWaaagh or Yayap. I will keep the inactive players ALIVE to disrupt day lynching. And I will try my best not to piss of Roman (Ubernox, TheWaaagh, Sumikoko-fred).

@Sumikoko
If the rules don't exist, Lucifer is still the better choice (read better, not best). Let other demons use their abilities.

Being sent to kill is separate from their night abilities. It's just a question of keeping Lucifer hidden vs taking advantage of his invulnerability.

[Nick]

@TheWaaagh
I stand corrected. And you are correct. Hidden or invulnerability.

[Ambient]

While I admire your courage for saying something opposite of the general opinion, I will have to respectfully disagree Sumikoko.

This game has been rigged against Sin from the start, with two detect exact role investigators and a cult leader on their team, Eternity could investigate 3 players a night. Sin doesn't hit it's stride until Day 13, in which time Eternity would have investigated 36 people. The edge this gives them is increased for every person who dies, while Sin cannot really do anything to increase their KPN. At best Sin kills 24 people by Night 13, Eternity has a clear edge. This advantage is then compounded by the majority faction being given no other outlet to focus on other than Sin, which makes operating even more difficult for Sin. And then you consider Rome, who is basically handed victory on a silver platter in this setup, who is encouraged heavily to side with Eternity to this effect.

Sin, on the other hand, is an isolated Mason Leader who recruits citizens(Sinners in this case), but only of which about 45% of them can actually be recruited. And he starts alone, and is not allied with any other faction. And his opponent has two auto-use vest doc/investigators which basically neutralize his kill immunity advantage.

This game was a mess balance-wise, it really isn't unexpected that this outcome occurred when Rome decided to side with Eternity.

Yep.

[Ambient]

I think the reason Ambient killed: Ubernox (1), TheWaaagh (2) was because I said NOT to kill the newbies.

Naw. They seemed anti-sin. I had been anxious about targeting the obvious roles because I was hoping Lookout/Heals would be wasted on them.

Also Rome = Full Retard

And going to lose (unless a miracle happens)
/close

[TheWaaagh]

Also Rome = Full Retard


This coming from the guy who used a Roman corpse to deliver a message saying Rome had nothing to fear.... :)

[Yayap]

This coming from the guy who used a Roman corpse to deliver a message saying Rome had nothing to fear.... :)

In case you forget, Rome HAD nothing to fear as long as Tiberius lived. Now they are pretty screwed.

[TheWaaagh]

In case you forget, Rome HAD nothing to fear as long as Tiberius lived. Now they are pretty screwed.

No, I know. Me, you, and Brennenburg have pages of posts in here arguing about what Rome should've done. I was just bringing up a joke from back when I was first killed because I enjoyed what, from an rp point of view, would've been a pretty big fuck up on Lucifer's part.

Like he drops the corpse of a Roman off at the palace with a note attached saying "Hey Rome! We're cool, don't worry about me killing any of you kay?"

And then later accuses them of being the retards. It's just funny is all I'm saying.

[Ambient]

I actually did not know you were Roman. I just saw you as an intelligent anti-sin person. You had to go.

[TheWaaagh]

I actually did not know you were Roman. I just saw you as an intelligent anti-sin person. You had to go.

Yeah the night I died I had actually said in the night chat: "I'm pretty sure I pissed off Lucifer today, so I kind of want a bodyguard" but my pleas went unanswered :(.

[Ubernox]

I wonder how the game would have went if Waaagh had survived. Pity I had to die on the first day, but you probably made the right decision, Ambient. I would have been an avid supporter of Eternity, and may have even been recruited. Embalmers aren't all that bad in FM, I presume, and I would probably be checking your corpse tonight - that is, if I survived until now.

[TheWaaagh]

I wonder how the game would have went if Waaagh had survived.

The game would've pretty much gone the same, except I would've been cursing a lot in the night chats after I found out Auckmid failed to jail Lucifer the night of Jesus' death.

[Ubernox]

I think Elixir/Fred did enough of that, from what I've heard. Jeese, Auckmid can make some really terrible decisions sometimes.

[Dust]

I think Elixir/Fred did enough of that, from what I've heard. Jeese, Auckmid can make some really terrible decisions sometimes.
Sometimes?

[Ubernox]

Hey, he's not always a power role.